Cannons, machine guns and smokes: mobile anti-aircraft gun groups for combating UAVs

Truck with ZU-23-2 installation in the back

Drone aviation is a known threat and various solutions have been proposed to combat it. It recently became known that the Russian army is creating special mobile anti-aircraft gun defense groups specifically to counter enemy UAVs. With the help of barreled weapons and additional means of protection, they must cover important objects and destroy incoming Drones.

Latest news

The formation of new specialized units was reported on March 29 by Izvestia. From its sources in the Ministry of Defense, it learned about the creation of mobile anti-aircraft groups, the features of their formation, approximate composition, etc. In turn, the Ministry of Defense has not yet officially commented on such news and did not talk about plans to create mobile air defense groups.

According to Izvestia, the process of forming anti-aircraft gun groups has already begun. Such units will appear in combined arms armies, as well as in the air force and air defense armies. For obvious reasons, how many groups will be created and in which particular connections they will appear is not specified.

The approximate composition and capabilities of the group are revealed. As mobile weapons, such a unit should use ZU-23-2 anti-aircraft guns mounted on trucks, as well as heavy machine guns on pickup trucks. In addition, the groups will receive additional protective equipment in the form of smoke machines and electronic warfare stations.

Upgraded version of ZU-23-2 with electronic control system

The number of different assets in the group, as well as the types of smoke machines and electronic warfare stations, are not reported. In addition, Izvestia’s sources did not indicate how and by what means the unit would monitor the air situation, search for targets and direct fire at them. However, from the very fact of the formation of such groups it follows that these issues have already been resolved - but the information cannot yet be disclosed.

Izvestia does not report when the new mobile air defense groups will reach combat duty. Their composition indicates a certain ease of formation, which will contribute to the speedy start of work. You can expect news of this kind to appear in the very near future.

Means and products

Izvestia’s sources told how the new mobile anti-aircraft gun groups are armed and equipped. The mentioned samples should be separately considered and their capabilities and advantages determined. Then you can imagine what results the combined use of all these products will produce.

The ZU-23-2 anti-aircraft gun mounted on a truck is mentioned as the main fire weapon with the required level of combat and operational characteristics. The self-propelled platform in the form of a truck should provide high mobility and mobility, which is included in the name of the unit. At the same time, trucks of the main models available to the Russian army will be able to transport the installation, its crew and significant ammunition.

Machine gun "Kord" on tank

The ZU-23-2 product is a twin 23-mm anti-aircraft artillery mount designed to combat low-altitude air targets or ground targets. Two guns on the installation show a total rate of fire of 2 thousand rounds/min. and are capable of hitting airplanes and helicopters at ranges of up to 2,5 km and altitudes of up to 1,5 km. In the basic version, the ZU-23-2 has manual drives that provide circular horizontal and vertical guidance from -10° to +90°.

For a number of reasons, the ZU-23-2 installation is considered obsolete. At the same time, various ways to modernize it and improve its tactical and technical characteristics are proposed. Thus, domestic enterprises have already presented several options for equipping the installation with a full-fledged digital fire control system, including an optical-electronic sight and electric guidance drives. In addition, the guns can be supplemented with a launcher for MANPADS missiles. All these innovations increase the accuracy and efficiency of fire, as well as the maximum range and height of destruction.

It is announced that units will be equipped with heavy machine guns. These will probably be Kord machine guns, which are the most widely used in the army. Such machine guns can be used with different machines and on different platforms. In particular, using slightly modified standard equipment, they are mounted on cars. This solves the issue of mobility, and also makes it possible to protect the shooter.

The "cord" in the infantry version is approx. 2 m and weight 25,5 kg. The machine gun uses a standard domestic 12,7 x 108 mm belt-fed cartridge. Rate of fire – up to 650 rounds/min. The target range is determined to be 2 km. It is possible to use open, optical or night sights.

Smoke machine TDA-3 at work

Air defense teams include smoke machines. Such equipment is already in service with the engineering troops and is used to camouflage troops or various objects. Now it is proposed to transfer it from the engineering troops to the disposal of other units, but to maintain the range of tasks being solved and to use all available functions and advantages.

The engineering troops are armed with several models of smoke machines, and the latest is the TDA-3, which entered service with the troops in the mid-XNUMXs. In general, all smoke generators are similar to each other: they are built on the basis of trucks and receive thermal smoke equipment. Using standard devices, the machine generates and emits dense smoke. Various smoke mixtures are used to make the curtain opaque in the visible and infrared ranges. In addition, a machine with the appropriate smoke composition can carry out decontamination or disinfestation of the area.

The latest news also mentions the use of electronic warfare stations, but without specifying the exact type of such products. It should be noted that the troops already have a significant number of systems of this class, and they all work on the same principle. The task of such stations is to identify UAV control channels and then suppress them. Navigation satellite signals are also suppressed.

New concept

New mobile anti-aircraft gun groups to combat UAVs are being built on the basis of an interesting new concept. Overall, it looks interesting and useful, and its correct implementation will really improve the protection of troops, areas and facilities from drones or other means of air attack. In addition, the concept immediately has a certain potential for modernization.

The new concept provides for several echelons of object protection, operating according to different principles. Thus, a smoke generator must set up an aerosol curtain and hide the protected object from enemy observation. In this case, a UAV with optical search and guidance means will not be able to solve its problem. An electronic warfare station from an air defense group will have to suppress navigation signals and communication channels, as a result of which the UAV will be left without control and correct orientation in space.

Such “non-lethal” countermeasures are complemented by fire weapons. The air defense group will be able to hit drones at ranges of up to 2-2,5 km or further, depending on the available materiel. Thus, at a greater range, air targets will be fired from twin 23-mm cannons. When using modern fire control equipment, the effectiveness of such shooting will be quite high. At shorter ranges, within a radius of hundreds of meters, the guns will be complemented by a heavy machine gun.

An important feature of the mobile group is the use only of systems and equipment available to the troops. Anti-aircraft installations and heavy machine guns, electronic warfare stations and smoke detectors are already available to the troops in sufficient quantities, and their production from scratch is not required. This simplifies the process of creating new units and equipping them with the required equipment.

Where and how it is planned to use the new air defense units has not yet been announced. But we can assume that the selected composition of their means and systems will allow for maximum efficiency in any conditions. Accordingly, the army has another convenient and successful tool at its disposal for solving current combat missions. And the first information about its use may arrive in the very near future.

Comments

[Ross xnumx]

But we can assume that the selected composition of their means and systems will allow for maximum efficiency in any conditions.

I can assume that the greatest effectiveness will be achieved by a complex capable of detecting a UAV at a safe distance, determining the distance to it, and capable of destroying targets with projectiles with an adjustable detonation height or MANPADS-type missiles.
One thing I don’t understand is why there is no progress in creating a mini-“Peresvet”? Not a bad idea either.
* * *
The main thing is that modernization is not limited to installing machine guns on board the Ural...

[Oden280]

And I have a question, where are our Shilkas? There must be a lot of them in the NZ. We can’t think of a better way to combat slow-moving gumbottles. Rear areas can be covered quickly.

[SKVichyakow]

It is necessary to install a stabilizer, automatic target tracking, locator, and shrapnel remote detonation of a projectile. But this is not even on ships. That's why we have what we have.

[Xenofont]

People, when will this Ryabov shame and mockery of readers end?!!! Yesterday there was a note with a similar content entitled “The Western press assessed the new mobile units of the Russian Armed Forces for combating drones.” Shoot me with pickles, but this is simply humiliating!

[Dutchman Michel]

I have a question for air defense specialists. Why are only automatic weapons used to combat UAVs? Why can't you use something like a smoothbore gun with a large number of striking elements? One shot and the whole sky is covered with these destructive elements? Here I do not mean high-altitude drones, which would be difficult to reach using the proposed method.

[Pravodel]

Why can’t we use something like a smoothbore gun with a large number of striking elements?

This is a question of questions. Shrapnel from a smoothbore cannon will shoot down any UAV, even if it is completely covered in crap for stealth (Banderlog degenerates are capable of anything)...

[Dekabrist]

Shrapnel from a smoothbore cannon will shoot down any UAV,

You just have no idea about the ballistics of such shooting. If they had, they would be very surprised.

[Foul skeptic]

Why are only automatic weapons used to combat UAVs? Why can’t you use something like a smoothbore gun with a large number of striking elements? One shot and the whole sky is covered with these destructive elements?

1) Because it will be simply heavier, which means more inertial and more inconvenient to use.
2) Because the effective range is shorter.
3) Because then the damaging elements will cause metallic rain somewhere.

[Dutchman Michel]

1) Because it will be simply heavier, which means more inertial and more inconvenient to use.
2) Because the effective range is shorter.
3) Because then the damaging elements will cause metallic rain somewhere

1. In no case will it be heavier.
2. We are talking about small drones and at low altitude
3. Metal rain is better than damage to equipment and important infrastructure. In addition, we already live in the 21st century and manpower has long been in armored vehicles

[Foul skeptic]

It will never get any heavier.

1) Excuse me, but in what caliber do you see it?

We are talking about small drones and at low altitude

2) Please check the ceiling height

Better than metallic rain

3) Civilians who are accidentally hit by flechettes (it makes no sense to consider any other form of destructive elements from the point of view of effectiveness) will not agree with you.

[Dutchman Michel]

Excuse me, but in what caliber do you see it?

To answer this, you need to know the altitude, speed and weaponry of the enemy drone. My knowledge is based on publicly available information. I think that the caliber should be 50-200 mm. Maybe

3) Civilians who are accidentally hit by flechettes (it makes no sense to consider any other form of destructive elements from the point of view of effectiveness) will not agree with you

There are usually no civilians on the line of combat contact. We are talking about small drones, or rather, about their “swarm” on the very front flank

[Foul skeptic]

I think that the caliber should be 50-200 mm. Maybe

Then you need to go back to the previous message

Quote: Dutchman Michel

It will never get any heavier.

Why did you decide that in your calibers it would be lighter than a 30-35 mm assault rifle?
PS 50 a little 200 a lot. 100-130 would be the golden mean, but just as unviable.

There are usually no civilians on the line of combat contact. We are talking about small drones, or rather, about their “swarm” on the very front flank

What about a bast to the right, a bast to the left, a bast back? Drones have not been deployed to the front for a long time.

[Vladimir_2U]

Cannons and machine guns are good, but how things are going with target designation for all this is absolutely unclear. And there are big doubts about the fact that “the issues have been resolved.”

did not indicate how and by what means the unit would monitor the air situation, search for targets and direct fire at them. However, from the very fact of the formation of such groups it follows that these issues have already been resolved - but the information cannot yet be disclosed.

[svp67]

Machine gun "Kord" on a tank

This is not "KORD", but also the Soviet NSV...
There are a lot of "Shiloks" in storage, they should also be "reanimated", you can think about installing a turret on a wheeled chassis, of course they should be modernized, sharply increasing the capabilities of combating UAVs at different times of the day.
Use balloon barriers more widely, based on WWII experience.

[antiaircrafter]

Quote: svp67

There are a lot of "Shiloks" in storage; they need to be "reanimated"

There may be plenty in storage. Where can I find specialists in resuscitation and operation?

[svp67]

Quote: antiaircrafter

Where can I find specialists in resuscitation and operation?

The first from the reserve, for training, as was originally done with tanks.... The second - to train

[antiaircrafter]

Quote: svp67

The first from the reserve for training camp

Think. It’s not that simple and Shilka will have to be revived in the factory.
It’s better to teach in Tunguska and Pantsiri, because they will be newer.

[svp67]

Quote: antiaircrafter

Think. It’s not that simple and Shilka will have to be revived in the factory.

Well, yes... “do nothing there, but in three shifts”... And immediately the question of recruiting personnel arises; military training allows us to smooth out this issue

Quote: antiaircrafter

It’s better to teach in Tunguska and Pantsiri, because they will be newer.

Let’s just say that a weapon is just a “tool of war” and any such “tool” should not be thrown away, but used wisely and in the right place

[antiaircrafter]

Quote: svp67

use wisely and in the right place

I agree with this opinion.

[steelmaker]

"Unmanned aircraft pose a known threat..."
Do you know that the Ukrainian Armed Forces, not having their own aviation, are creating a separate branch of the military - UAVs. Or have already created it. And they plan to increase the production of UAVs to 1 million units. They can already afford to hunt for an individual soldier. What is presented in the article does not threaten spotters who aim at the target. And such air defense can only operate during the daytime. In general, this is called budget development. Of course, this is necessary, but this is not a solution to the problem. Until the goal is set, the destruction of Ukraine as a state, we will continue to “tinker in the sandbox” and fight “windmills.”

[KCA]

Radars don’t care about the time of day, modern radars also work at night

[Nastia makarova]

on our side it is also applied to individual soldiers

[tank64rus]

“Several models of smoke machines are in service with the engineering troops, and the latest is the TDA-3, which entered service with the troops in the mid-65s. In general, all vehicles are similar to each other: they are built on the basis of trucks and receive thermal smoke equipment.” TDA vehicles have always been part of the RCBZ troops and never belonged to the engineering troops. The TMS-XNUMXD is also used to set up aerosol curtains; this machine is the most powerful in terms of its performance characteristics. Also widely used in the SA were systems for setting up aerosol curtains using radio-controlled bombs UDS. This is the Forest Layer complex. Before using these machines, you need to think about ways to protect them from UAVs. On the other side, they know these machines very well and are developing ways to fight them.

[ASM]

The main thing here is to have good ammunition of different calibers with remote detonation. For “helicopters” 12,7 will do, for “airplanes” you will need 23. Since they are mostly plastic and are indistinguishable from a flying raven or goose on the radar, you will have to use visual and noise detection. And these are short distances. And here a uniform spread of shot over a certain area is very important. And this is ammunition with remote detonation - such a bullet flies to the required distance and explodes into a fine vinaigrette.

[AMG]

When reading the articles of a respected author, one is drawn to the technology of their writing. You just need to take a message and develop it to the appropriate scale. Example, a recently published article about the Bereg complex dated March 27.3.2024, 29.12.2022. , which ended with the statement about the formation of a powerful Dnieper flotilla, which will help our army successfully jump over the Dnieper River. This article is also built on this principle. The Izvestia publication reported, and then off we went. Found out, didn't comment yet; the process has already started, but the quantity has not been specified; the composition is disclosed, but the quantity is not reported; the issues have been resolved, but the information cannot yet be disclosed; the use of electronic warfare stations, but without specifying the type, although they already exist. But there is a new product - SMOKE! It turns out that the author published the article “TDA-3 smoke machine” in VO back on December XNUMX, XNUMX, but then he attributed it to the RCBZ troops. This means smoke has a double action - masking and decontamination and disinfestation. Then screw the mosquitoes and mice! In the end, everything is so simple. You need to collect everything you have in a heap, shuffle it and you will get a curious, interesting, useful and most importantly new concept that can be immediately modernized. This is the scale! All armies, both ground and air forces and air defense, will be affected. Well, in the final, as usual: where and how have not yet been announced, but they can do it.

[89824024836]

The time has come to modernize the Kalashnikov assault rifle to fire at an extremely high rate, over 2000 rounds per minute. To do this, it is necessary to ensure barrel cooling and use a multi-bullet unitary cartridge for AKM. An attack aircraft armed with such a super fast-firing weapon is the future of our army. Where is the design thought of the engineers of the Kalashnikov Group of Companies? Why has such a weapon not yet been created?

[bone1]

Did they get infected with this kind of crap from the Ukrainians?

[Mikhail Maslov]

Something is not clear. What will the UAV detect? The enemy will immediately go to heights beyond the reach of the self-propelled gun. Another question is covering what? If the object is stationary, why fence the garden with equipment? If these are some kind of moving objects and formations, again the speed and detection range is the key question here , which means, again, you can’t get by with just optics. You need a different composition of the complex, at least 2×30 ZSU, optical station, radar, at least 2 Igla man-portable air defense systems. If possible, put everything on one chassis.

[bug120560]

What don't you understand? The main danger is primarily posed by attack drones - kamikazes, which are remote-controlled loitering munitions. It is precisely to combat them that new air defense systems are being created and have already been created. At the Army 2023 forum, such samples were exhibited; detection/guidance systems and ammunition with a remote detonation programming system were developed for them. Why isn't this in the army? Yes, probably only because there are no responsible persons in the Defense Ministry with an understanding of what the army needs.

[Mikhail Maslov]

I agree with you, that’s why it’s not clear. Everything is there, take it and combine it into one block or installation. But apparently this is not our way.

[Maxim Davydov]

Why isn't this in the army?

The generals understand and want everything. But from concept to series there is an abyss.
Therefore, due to the impossibility of technical breakthroughs, we are planning organizational ones, i.e. instead of a modern inexpensive and mass-produced weapon (radar, computer, machine gun and/or ammunition with remote detonation and/or laser and/or electronic warfare, but with a range of up to 1 km, not 10 and not 25), we have “partisans” with air defense level WWII or the same 404. More precisely, we plan to have it.