Prospects for the cruiser TK-208 "Dmitry Donskoy"

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Prospects for the cruiser TK-208 "Dmitry Donskoy"
The submarine "Dmitry Donskoy" at the pier. Photo by the Russian Ministry of Defense


In the early eighties, the newest heavy nuclear-powered strategic submarine missile cruiser TK-208 (since 2002 has been named “Dmitry Donskoy”), the lead ship of the new Project 941 “Akula”, entered the service of the USSR Navy. Over the next decades, this submarine participated in strategic nuclear deterrence and in the development of the naval component of nuclear forces. However, to date, due to moral and physical obsolescence, the ship has been withdrawn from service. fleet and plan to dispose of it. Such plans are predictably criticized - and other options for using the unique submarine are proposed.



Lead ship of the series


Project 941 “Shark” was developed in the first half of the seventies at the Leningrad design and installation bureau “Rubin” (now CDB MT “Rubin”). The construction of the submarines was entrusted to the Sevmash enterprise (Severodvinsk), which had the necessary production facilities. The Navy's plans included the construction of 10 ships, but the actual series was limited to 6 hulls. The construction of the rest was canceled at the preparation stage.

The lead ship, designated TK-208, was laid down on June 17, 1976. Construction on the slipway continued until September 1980, when the submarine was launched. In December of the following year, after all the work and testing, the cruiser was handed over to the customer. Soon he began full-time service in the Northern Fleet.

TK-208 and the next five similar “Sharks”, built before the end of the eighties, were carriers of R-39 intercontinental ballistic missiles. Like other SSBNs, Project 941 submarines were supposed to patrol in specified areas of the World Ocean and await commands to launch missiles at targets in the territory of a potential enemy.

The active service of the TK-208 continued until 1989, when the boat went to Sevmash for major repairs and modernization under Project 941U. Due to financial difficulties and changes in government policy, work was suspended in 1991. Repairs were restarted only in the middle of the decade, and with new goals. Now they have decided to remake the SSBN according to project 941UM or “09412” and make it an experimental carrier of a promising weapons.


Until recently, the TK-208 was used to support various exercises and tests. Photo by the Russian Ministry of Defense

The cruiser returned to the KSF in July 2002. In October of the same year, she was given the name “Dmitry Donskoy”. After the necessary preparation, the SSBN was involved in testing the promising R-30 Bulava SLBM. The first launch of such a product took place in September 2004. A year later, a full-scale product was launched against conditional targets at the Kura training ground. Until 2010 inclusive, the TK-208 crew conducted 15 test launches. Then similar tests were carried out using the new SSBN Project 955 "Borey".

Subsequently, “Dmitry Donskoy” regularly participated in various fleet events, incl. in parades. In particular, in the fall of 2022, it was reported that this submarine was participating in a testing program for new missile cruisers. In addition, the topic of future repairs and modernization with transfer to new weapons was regularly raised.

End of service


However, all plans for further development were abandoned. In July 2022, the TASS agency, citing its source in the military-industrial complex, reported the withdrawal of the TK-208 from the Navy's combat service. The ship is now awaiting disposal. At the same time, the name “Dmitry Donskoy” is transferred to the new SSBN Project 955A, laid down at Sevmash in July 2021.

The following reports about the fate of the lead “Shark” appeared only recently. On February 6, the All-Russian Fleet Support Movement again announced the withdrawal of the cruiser from the Navy. It is noted that in the near future it will be in Severodvinsk with the other two remaining SSBNs of Project 941 - TK-17 Arkhangelsk and TK-20 Severstal. Then they will be cut into metal.

Plans to scrap the unique ship have predictably drawn criticism. In addition, alternative proposals have emerged. For example, back in the summer of 2022, the public organization “Officers of Russia” came up with the idea of ​​​​turning “Dmitry Donskoy” into a museum located in the Kronstadt Patriot Park. Following in the footsteps of the recent news the organization issued an open letter in which it again proposed making a museum out of the submarine, and also mentioned the possibility of modernizing and rearming the ship to give it new capabilities.


View of the stern. Photo by the Russian Ministry of Defense

How events will develop and what fate awaits “Dmitry Donskoy” is still unknown. Reports about the submarine's decommissioning and immediate dismantlement came from unofficial sources, while the Ministry of Defense does not disclose its plans. The situation should become clearer in the near future.

Causes and background


It should be noted that the Dmitry Donskoy and other Sharks, like any other submarines, would sooner or later have to complete their service. This outcome is predetermined by a number of factors common to the submarine fleet. In addition, in the case of Project 941, there were various reasons of their own.

First of all, the physical wear and tear of structures and mechanisms, as well as the obsolescence of equipment, is important. Not every ship with a high degree of wear and tear is advisable to restore and return to service. This factor is aggravated in the case of unique small-scale samples - there may simply be no opportunity to carry out the necessary work. There may also be an infrastructure factor that limits the ability to operate a certain type of submarine.

Project 941 submarines differ from other domestic designs not only in their unique size and displacement, but also in their greater design complexity. Their maintenance and repair are particularly challenging. If there are problems in the economy, it becomes practically unsolvable. In addition, the plans for the Sharks were influenced by the appearance of the simpler Boreys.

After the collapse of the USSR, Akula-class submarines encountered problems with ammunition. The production of the R-39 SLBM was divided between the Union republics, and the collapse of the country led to its virtual stop. The Navy had a certain supply of ready-made missiles, but replenishing it turned out to be impossible. By the mid-XNUMXs, this reserve was used up in planned activities, and the ships were left without weapons.


"Sharks" in the database. Photo Militaryrussia.ru

Thus, “Dmitry Donskoy” and other remaining SSBNs pr. 941 over the past two decades have not been the most convenient asset of our fleet. Their operation and maintenance were not simple, and combat use was not possible due to the lack of standard missiles.

Modernization issue


However, the idea of ​​​​preserving the “Sharks” in service for a long time was not abandoned. Until the mid-1990s, officials and unnamed media sources regularly spoke about the possibility of modernizing the ships and continuing their operation. At the same time, various ways to maintain combat effectiveness were proposed.

Thus, the possibility of developing the ideas of Project 09412 and completely transferring the Dmitry Donskoy to the new Bulava missiles was discussed. At the beginning of the 19s, one of its launchers received the ability to use such an SLBM, and it was proposed to carry out a similar re-equipment of the remaining 208. In this case, the TK-955 could become a successful addition to the new Project 17 SSBNs under construction. If there is an appropriate opportunity, the same restructuring could pass two other “Sharks” - TK-20 and TK-XNUMX.

The idea of ​​rearmament of the submarine or submarines and their transfer to the multi-purpose class was expressed. To do this, launchers for cruise missiles of the Caliber family had to be placed in the silos. It was possible to fit five new products into the dimensions of the shaft installation. In this case, the former SSBN could carry 200 missiles to combat surface and coastal targets.

However, both rearmament options may have excessive complexity and cost. Also, when planning them, it is necessary to take into account the technical capabilities of the submarines themselves. It is quite possible that the Ministry of Defense assessed the available capabilities and considered the rearmament of the Sharks inappropriate.

Museum piece


In the absence of the possibility or need to preserve the Dmitry Donskoy and other submarine cruisers in service, the idea of ​​​​turning such a submarine into a museum looks good. The positive consequences of such a step are clear and obvious. This unique achievement of domestic shipbuilding will be available to everyone. This will help preserve the heritage and pride in our achievements, and also contribute to the patriotic education of youth.


TK-17 "Arkhangelsk" at sea shortly before being transferred to reserve. Photo: Wikimedia Commons

However, converting a combat submarine into a museum is also not easy. To do this, it is necessary to remove the nuclear power plant and potentially dangerous units from the buildings, remove some mechanisms, make the internal volumes more accessible and convenient for placing the exhibition and working with visitors, etc. You will also have to find a suitable place for the museum submarine and solve other problems.

Obviously, rebuilding the SSBN for the museum will be extremely expensive. In this context, we should recall the recent process of “museumification” of the K-3 Leninsky Komsomol submarine. In the past, it was reported that about 50 million rubles were required to prepare for its rework. The restructuring itself cost 650 million. At the same time, the volume of work on K-3 was significantly less than it could be on TK-208.

The cost of rebuilding Dmitry Donskoy could easily exceed a billion rubles. Whether it is possible to find or raise such a sum for an interesting and useful project is unknown.

Uncertain Future


The renewal of the naval personnel of the Navy is carried out both through the construction of new pennants and through the decommissioning of obsolete ones. In addition, the military is characterized by pragmatism, and unnecessary combat units are put into reserve or written off. Their place in the ranks is taken by modern models with higher characteristics and improved combat qualities.

After several decades of service, the lead ship, Project 941, is being withdrawn from service. The further fate of the Dmitry Donskoy remains unknown, and there are no reasons for optimism or pessimism. Now everything depends on our Ministry of Defense - its decision will determine in what form the memory of the unique domestic project will remain.
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  1. +6
    21 March 2024 04: 58
    Well, why not really make a museum out of this cruiser? I think this would be a very interesting and correct decision. There is a boat in Tushino as a museum and there is always a line there.
    1. +1
      21 March 2024 05: 06
      Well, why not really make a museum out of this cruiser?
      did you read carefully? Do you have an extra billion?
      The cost of rebuilding Dmitry Donskoy could easily exceed a billion rubles
      1. +9
        21 March 2024 05: 25
        Not everything is measured by money, especially historical memory.
        1. +1
          21 March 2024 07: 13
          Quote from Pilot
          Not everything is measured by money, especially historical memory.

          Bugaga ....
          Apparently this is why the USSR did not leave a single PO-2, IL-2, etc., and the pre-war tanks in museums are strictly one piece, and even those from swamps.
          Apparently the USSR had a hard time with historical memory...
          Just don’t talk about “the metal the country desperately needs” - PO-2 did not save the country with its 20 kg of metal from ropes and rags.
          I know the forest - where in the 1970s there were still broken Germans (with crosses) and our tanks, trucks, a bus, an anti-aircraft gun standing in the forest. Apparently the column came under our attack and was so overgrown with forest. In 1982, they were cut up right there on the spot and taken away for scrap metal. No problem with them with the Germans - it was indecent to preserve them, why cut our tanks?
          Historical memory, “No one is forgotten” and the boundaries between plowed fields with skulls in the Kursk region
          1. 0
            21 March 2024 09: 40
            You are comparing the PO-2, built in the thousands, which you can, if desired, build a model with a boat, in almost a single copy, a record holder in the book of records, with a displacement of a thousand tons, the nuclear reactors of which alone produce 40 megawatts.
            MUSEUM, and I would take it to St. Petersburg, where it will not only pay for itself, but will also be a plus.
            There are not so many tourists in other cities.
            The same battleship Iowa. The Americans are not going to cut something for metal, it’s standing next to the wall.
            1. -2
              21 March 2024 11: 22
              Quote: Curt
              You are comparing PO-2, built by the thousands, which you can build a mock-up if you wish

              Remind me - why the USSR did not preserve or build a single model of the PO-2 - which Fought with enemies, and not “record holder of the book of records”?
              Or now abruptly Has your historical memory improved?
              And then there will be hysterics at VO - “they brought my daughter to St. Petersburg to be cut up!!”....
              1. +5
                21 March 2024 15: 40
                These tales about the fact that the Shark is outdated easily fall apart when looking at the Ohio, which was built in 1981 and still serves today without decades of downtime at the walls.
                The sharks are not sawing at all because they are old, they were just newer than the Dolphins, they were watered down already under Putin on orders from Washington, because it was the Northern Fleet Sharks that posed a real threat to the NATO countries.
                What is one Shark on BS? If you take the basic R-39 missile or the almost 80% built Bark, then one missile carries 10 warheads of 200 kilotons each! And the Shark carried 20 such missiles, that is, 2000 warheads!
                Why were the Sharks so dangerous? Yes, because despite their cyclopean dimensions they were made for operations in shallow water under the ice of the Arctic Ocean, where the Shark under the ice cannot be detected either from space or by anti-aircraft aircraft, which means that the Shark has a chance to go to the BS under the ice and remain undetected much higher than Boreas. What do two or three undetected Sharks on the BS mean? This means that even if the enemy delivers the first disarming strike and destroys all the silo installations, bombers in Engels and SSBNs in the bases and those under the control of MAPL and PLO aircraft, then from 4 to 6 thousand nuclear warheads will still fly into their cities, which is enough to kill half the population of NATO countries in the first hour!
                It was after the commissioning of the Sharks that the Americans ran to sign the START treaty and did everything to ensure that these Sharks did not exist, in this case they did it with the hands of the guarantor.

                Why don't they make a museum out of Sharks? Yes, because the people who visited this boat will be shocked by what the country of the USSR could do, and they will also have questions about who sawed these boats and why and will easily find out who sawed these boats, which is not at all necessary for the winning guarantor.
                1. +4
                  21 March 2024 16: 05
                  one missile carries 10 warheads of 200 kilotons each! And the Shark carried 20 such missiles, that is, 2000 warheads!


                  Cross out the extra zero. One Shark 20px10b=200 warheads. That is, if out of the entire nuclear triad of the Russian Federation one Shark survives, but let’s say for various reasons only 75% of the warheads reach the target, then each state would receive 3 hundred-kiloton charges. This is a disaster for the state. That’s why, apparently, Akula was dismissed. For comparison with Borey, 16px3b = 48 warheads on Borey. 75% of the target is 36 states in which 1 target was hit. That is, the striking power of the Shark is 4 times higher. ???
                  1. 0
                    21 March 2024 16: 21
                    Cross out the extra zero. One Shark 20px10b=200 warheads.

                    Your truth! I got carried away! Thank you for writing!
                2. +2
                  21 March 2024 17: 52
                  one missile carries 10 warheads of 200 kilotons each! And the Shark carried 20 such missiles, that is, 2000 warheads!

                  Let me correct you - 200, not 2000.
                  Sharks are unique in that exactly half of their underwater displacement is water, and most of the remaining half is titanium. Indeed, there is nothing else like it in the world and there never will be.
                3. 0
                  23 March 2024 04: 03
                  With all due respect, somehow your arithmetic doesn’t add up.....
          2. -3
            21 March 2024 14: 48
            Quote: your1970
            Apparently this is why the USSR did not leave a single PO -2

            I didn’t understand one thing - what does the USSR have to do with it?

            Or was it in connection with the shelling of Belgorod that a command was sent through the grid to increase the singing about the horrors of the Soviet Union?
            1. +3
              21 March 2024 15: 18
              Quote: DenVB
              I didn’t understand one thing - what does the USSR have to do with it?
              this was a response to a post about historical memory
              Quote from Pilot
              Not everything is measured by money, especially historical memory.
              - in the USSR they put it with a parting.
              I gave examples of the destruction of historical memory in the USSR (Po-2 and further, further, further)
              1. 0
                21 March 2024 15: 31
                Quote: your1970
                - in the USSR they put it with a parting.

                We haven’t lived in the USSR for over thirty years now. Why should we repeat the worst of what happened then? Maybe we should repeat the best?

                Quote: your1970
                I gave examples of the destruction of historical memory in the USSR (Po-2 and further, further, further)

                There are many examples of non-destruction of the history of historical memory in the USSR. Tanks, for example, stood on pedestals in almost every city. The Il-2 you mentioned is located right in the center of Samara.
                1. 0
                  21 March 2024 15: 50
                  Quote: DenVB
                  Tanks, for example, stood on pedestals in almost every city.

                  These are always, with a tiny number of exceptions, post-war T-34-85s.
                  There are practically no pre-war ones even in museums (although there were a ton of them, for example, in Mongolia at Khalkhin Gol).
                  Il 2 in Samara - post-war production.
                  You understand as well as I do that almost everything was cut to zero. And even in the cinema (well, leave 5 pieces for Mosfilm!!) about the beginning of the war, 85s are going on the attack, or even some fresh stuff.
                  About the Churchills/Matildas/Valentines or the Germans - forget me!!! Fu Fu Fu!!!
                  1. +1
                    21 March 2024 15: 56
                    Quote: your1970
                    You understand as well as I that everything was cut to almost nothing.

                    So I’ll ask you again - what does this have to do with the issue of preserving historical memory in our time? Or is your manual like this: “The USSR did not preserve historical memory, so we will not allow the historical memory of the USSR to be preserved”?

                    Quote: your1970
                    Il 2 in Samara - post-war production.

                    Having lost it.
                    In the fall of 1970, an airplane with number 1872932 was discovered in the swamps of the Murmansk region near the Alakurtti station. As we found out from the archives, the plane with pilot K. M. Kotlyarevsky and gunner E. Mukhin on board was shot down in March 1943. The plane was delivered to the Kuibyshev aviation plant, where old workers, from memory[1], assembled and repaired the body, weapons and other parts. The plane was installed on a pedestal near the entrance to the plant. The restoration work was directly supervised by the head of production at the Kuibyshev Aviation Plant, Pavel Sergeevich Tyukhtin.
                    1. -1
                      21 March 2024 17: 34
                      Quote: DenVB
                      Or is your manual like this: “The USSR did not preserve historical memory, so we will not allow the historical memory of the USSR to be preserved”?

                      Я do not mind preserving the Shark as a museum - absolutely NOTagainst.
                      The problem is that when they start making it a museum, here at VO there will be hysterics with snot up to their knees "The damned capitalists will steal everything again and do nothing!!! Under the USSR....!!!"
                      That's why i in advance wrote that historical memory was not preserved in the USSR... well, in general...
                      1. +1
                        21 March 2024 18: 22
                        By -2 it was paper. How long will it stand in the air? Or even inside a museum?
                      2. 0
                        22 March 2024 18: 19
                        Quote: your1970
                        That is why I wrote in advance that historical memory was not preserved in the USSR... well, in general...

                        For the record, in general. So that the employer does not reproach you for not working out your thirty kopecks.
              2. -1
                21 March 2024 17: 21
                I gave examples of the destruction of historical memory in the USSR (Po-2 and further, further, further)

                The USSR made history and monuments throughout the USSR in 1991 numbered in the thousands, these include T-34, Is-2 and other armored vehicles on pedestals and in museums, various artillery and aircraft of different generations throughout the country.
                Can you tell me what happened to the unique aircraft of the Aviation and Cosmonautics Museum on Khodynka? What happened to the Tu-114 stationed at Domodedovo? Were they destroyed under the USSR?
                1. +2
                  21 March 2024 17: 54
                  Quote: ramzay21
                  monuments throughout the USSR in 1991 numbered in the thousands

                  T-34-85=95% of these monuments, and even post-war issues.
                  What's up with pre-war tanks/planes/ships?
                  As of 2002, there were 7 times more FLYING USSR aircraft in the USA than in the entire Russian Federation in museums and pedestals (usually gutted!!).
                  Quote: ramzay21
                  Can you tell me what happened to the unique aircraft of the Aviation and Cosmonautics Museum on Khodynka? What happened to the Tu-114 stationed at Domodedovo? Were they destroyed under the USSR?
                  - judging by your voice, they apparently destroyed it. Well, the country is no stranger to this - this is the first time or something...No drastic changes - no matter what the country is called...
                  1. -2
                    21 March 2024 22: 47
                    As of 2002, there were 7 times more FLYING USSR aircraft in the USA than in the entire Russian Federation in museums and pedestals (usually gutted!!).

                    What else was the USSR in 2002?
                    judging by your voice, apparently they destroyed it. Well, the country is no stranger to this - this is the first time or something.

                    If you don’t know the largest aviation museum of the USSR, which had many unique pieces of equipment, then what can we talk about?
                    No drastic changes - no matter what the country is called...

                    After 35 years of Soviet power, the USSR made the T-34 and Tu-95, a Kalashnikov assault rifle and a spaceship, the world's first nuclear icebreaker and the most popular passenger car among British dockers, MiG-15 and La-5, PPSh and IS-2, orders from Moscow listened in Beijing and Warsaw, in Kiev and Sofia, in Bucharest and Tashkent, in Berlin and Budapest, in Prague and Riga, in Pyongyang and Tallinn, the USSR economy became for the first time in history larger than the French economy, Germany and Italy combined.
                    And what has the current government achieved over the same 35 years?
                    1. +1
                      21 March 2024 23: 26
                      Quote: ramzay21
                      What else was the USSR in 2002?

                      But the USSR didn’t keep such statistics... why did it need flying samples of junk...
                      Quote: ramzay21
                      orders from Moscow were heard in Beijing and Warsaw, Kiev and Sofia, Bucharest and Tashkent, Berlin and Budapest, Prague and Riga, Pyongyang and Tallinn,
                      in Pekin? Is this when Damansky was divided?
                      In Warsaw? is it under Solidarity in 1982?
                      In Prague?
                      Hmm, there was just as much smoke as you could hear.
                      The republics of the USSR especially obeyed - they obeyed so much that Bandera’s followers were driven to Ukra until 1957.
                      Quote: ramzay21
                      After 35 years of Soviet power, the USSR made the T-34 and Tu-95, a Kalashnikov assault rifle and a spaceship, the world's first nuclear icebreaker and the most popular passenger car among British dockers, MiG-15 and La-5, PPSh and IS-2
                      Of all the things you listed, one Niva was related to PEOPLE
                      The country knew how to make tanks, what else. It did everything for the army, but here’s the paradox: the army betrayed it, did not care about the oath and did not protect it.
                      Just don’t talk about “There was no order.”
                      However, the USSR was betrayed by everyone - the party, the authorities, the security forces, the people...
                      Nobody stood up....
                      1. -2
                        22 March 2024 09: 33
                        But the USSR didn’t keep such statistics... why did it need flying samples of junk...

                        Do you know in what year the USSR disappeared?
                        in Pekin? Is this when Damansky was divided?

                        In fact, 35 years after the Bolsheviks came to power, there was a war in Korea, in which Beijing strictly followed Moscow’s decisions. But you’re not interested in remembering that, you need to throw crap at the fan!
                        In Warsaw? is it under Solidarity in 1982?

                        Solidarity is a CIA project, but wasn't Warsaw run by communists and our allies?
                        In Poland, as in any other country, there have always been those who hated us and those who wanted to be friends with us, the only question is whether we can bring our friends to power and not allow our enemies to come to power. The USSR could bring our friends to power and prevent our enemies from coming to power. But the Russian Federation is not able to do this.
                        Of all the things you listed, only Niva had something to do with PEOPLE

                        Actually, I wrote about Moskvich, who was very popular among dockers in England in the 50s.
                        Everything that I wrote is relevant to our people and there is no need to wag, you are not able to give a single example of the achievements of the Russian Federation from the achievements of the USSR that I listed over the same 35 years.
                        However, the USSR was betrayed by everyone - the party, the authorities, the security forces, the people...
                        Nobody stood up....

                        The USSR was betrayed by power, but our people believed in power.
                      2. +1
                        22 March 2024 10: 40
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        Do you know in what year the USSR disappeared?

                        As of the time of the collapse, there are simply no such statistics. That is, this issue was of no interest to anyone in the USSR
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        in which Beijing strictly complied with Moscow’s decisions.
                        but I’m embarrassed to ask how called when SOCIALIST China is at war with SOCIALIST Vietnam? When does he kill Soviet border guards? Apparently according to you-"Friendship of the peoples of the socialist countries!!'????

                        Quote: ramzay21
                        The USSR could bring our friends to power and prevent our enemies from coming to power
                        The GDR and the Limitrophes are somehow surprised - there for some reason The USSR allowed enemies to power. Moreover, the USSR yourself somehow managed to crap one's pants and allow as many as two to come to power real enemies of the USSR - NSH and MSG.
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        Moskvich, who was very popular among dockers in England in the 50s.
                        Moskvich was popular for 5-10 years and that’s it. Drushlag....
                        The Niva is much more popular; it was purchased in England for the rural police.
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        The USSR was betrayed by power, but our people believed in power.
                        - that is, you have now called the people of the USSR a herd of sheep, and the authorities from the Central Committee of the CPSU - goats leading this herd of sheep to the slaughterhouse?
                        Or was it simpler - no one cared?
                        And that is why from shobla to 4 500 Not a single marshal general shot himself in shame?
                        The Tsars shot, ours shot during the war, the Wehrmacht belay they shot themselves, and the generals of the late USSR said, “Oh, what the heck!! We trust the authorities, so what if they sold us out!!”
                      3. -1
                        22 March 2024 15: 02
                        As of the time of the collapse, there are simply no such statistics. That is, this issue was of no interest to anyone in the USSR

                        Why are you giving figures for 2002, when traitors ruled the country for more than 10 years?
                        and I’m embarrassed to ask, what is it called when SOCIALIST China is at war with SOCIALIST Vietnam?

                        And that China fought with Vietnam in the 50s? I said that Moscow’s decisions were carried out in Beijing in the 50s under Stalin, do you want to challenge this?
                        The GDR and the Limitrophes are somehow surprised - for some reason the USSR allowed enemies to come to power

                        Do you disagree with the fact that the GDR authorities were our allies before Gorbachev’s betrayal?
                        Moskvich was popular for 5-10 years and that’s it.

                        Do you have an example of the popularity in Europe of a 100% domestic car developed over the last 35 years in the Russian Federation for at least a year?
                        that is, you have now called the people of the USSR a herd of sheep, and the authorities from the Central Committee of the CPSU - goats leading this herd of sheep to the slaughterhouse?

                        If you consider people who believe in their power to be sheep?
                        And that is why out of 4 generals-marshals, not one shot himself out of shame?

                        If you do not know or have forgotten such cases, this does not mean that they did not exist. In any case, you don’t know for sure, but for some reason you claim it! But the fact that, for example, Marshal Akhromeyev shot himself or Colonel General Pugo was also not heard.

                        Again. What has the Russian Federation achieved in 35 years? Name at least one achievement at the level of the Tu-95, AK, Moskvich or MiG-15! But I know that you can't! Because they don't exist!
                      4. 0
                        22 March 2024 16: 06
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        And that China fought with Vietnam in the 50s? I said that Moscow’s decisions were carried out in Beijing in the 50s under Stalin, do you want to challenge this?

                        If ALL The USSR fits into the period of Stalin's leadership, and then for some reason some traitors- is there any flaw here? SYSTEM? And this is perfectly confirmed by the ironclad thesis about the war of a socialist country against another socialist country
                        Quote: your1970
                        what is it called when SOCIALIST China is at war with SOCIALIST Vietnam? When does he kill Soviet border guards? Apparently, in your opinion, “Friendship of the peoples of the socialist countries!!’????

                        Moreover, they began to wag - they say this was not under Stalin and therefore unshielded....
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        But the fact that, for example, Marshal Akhromeyev shot himself or Colonel General Pugo was also not heard.
                        as many as 2 pieces out of 4. Yes, they should all be shot for betraying the oath!!! They were more than capable of tearing off the beds and painting the grass.

                        Quote: ramzay21
                        What has the Russian Federation achieved in 35 years? Name at least one achievement at the level of the Tu-95, AK, Moskvich or MiG-15! But I know that you can't! Because they don't exist!

                        The damned capitalist Russian Federation gasified 48% of rural settlements; by 1986, the PEOPLE'S USSR mastered only 6% (including cylinder belay gas) in rural villages. When gas pipelines were dragged into "damned NATO in Germany at the height of the Cold War"

                        Z.Y.
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        level Tu-95, AK
                        -The problem with AKs is that the idiot marshals churned out so many of them - that weapons thought in the USSR and the Russian Federation has probably stopped forever. Nobody will give money for new machine guns - until more than 40 million old AKs are broken.
                        So whether to achieve AK or not is an extremely controversial issue
                      5. -2
                        22 March 2024 16: 26
                        Moreover, they began to wag - they say this was not under Stalin and therefore unshielded....

                        Again. Did Beijing listen to commands from Moscow under Stalin or not?
                        I wrote that after 35 years of Soviet power, that is, in 1952, Beijing listened to commands from Moscow. Can you argue something about this fact, without going to other times?
                        as many as 2 pieces out of 4.

                        You stated something else
                        And that is why out of 4 generals-marshals, not one shot himself out of shame?

                        I gave you two examples and you have already changed your shoes...
                        Yes, they should all be shot for betraying the oath!!!

                        I partially agree with this
                        The damned capitalist Russian Federation gasified 48% of rural settlements; by 1986, the PEOPLE'S USSR had supplied only 6% (including bottled belay gas) of rural settlements.

                        It doesn’t take much intelligence to produce gas using imported equipment and ready-made Soviet fields; the Arabs do this much better than the Russian Federation, Qatar, which produces several times less and earns much more, is an excellent example.
                        THE QUESTION WAS WHAT HAS THE RF PRODUCED IN 35 YEARS at the level of T-34, AK or Moskvich or Il-18 and Tu-104? Or will you merge again and tell us that there are more parades in the Russian Federation?
                      6. +1
                        22 March 2024 16: 54
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        It doesn’t take much intelligence to produce gas using imported equipment and ready-made Soviet fields,

                        For you personally, since you don’t get it on the first try, damned capitalism gasifies OWN the population is 35 years old (for example, gas was brought to us in 1997 and gasification was completed by 2002.
                        The People's USSR gasified ALIEN in a hostile country of the enemy NATO bloc.
                        And the population is deep down to the knees - gas is produced using imported or domestic equipment. By the way, in the USSR there was also pumping "Siemens".Probably by chance.....
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        You stated something else
                        and the remaining 4 apparently did not have a conscience..... However, with Pugo everything is unclear...
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        Did Beijing listen to commands from Moscow under Stalin or not?
                        once again - if the country is listened to under a strictly defined To the leader- it’s just that the country was lucky with a specific leader. They killed him and the country was immediately torn apart.
                        This is real- accidentally The country was lucky. Or it could have been some Trotsky or Bukharin.
                        And then the country didn’t get any more Stalins, alas..

                        Quote: ramzay21
                        there are more parades in the Russian Federation
                        - if only one in marshal's uniform thought for even a second - "And how many years have passed and unburied soldiers from the war are lying in our fields and forests - and we mumble, 'No one is forgotten..'"?
                        And I would send the division at least) not to march along the parade ground for 6 hours and not to beat off the edge, but to collect and rebury at least in the Moscow region those who died during the war - I might have respected them at least a little.
                        But no - they lie around and lie around - piping, tags and drill are more important
                      7. -2
                        22 March 2024 17: 23
                        Everything is clear, there will be no specifics! Best wishes! hi
                      8. 0
                        22 March 2024 19: 28
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        Everything is clear, there will be no specifics! Best wishes! hi

                        Well, you also didn’t say anything specific to any of my questions. You just ran away......
                        So you won't get sick either.
                      9. -1
                        22 March 2024 09: 44
                        By the way, about flying airplanes during the war! Do you understand WHY they are being restored now and where they go later? Do you know that all this is for sale? And for sale mainly in the USA?
                        But what can we expect from the authorities of hucksters and traitors?
                      10. +1
                        22 March 2024 10: 45
                        Quote: ramzay21
                        By the way, about flying airplanes during the war! Do you understand WHY they are being restored now and where they go later? Do you know that all this is for sale? And for sale mainly in the USA?
                        But what can we expect from the authorities of hucksters and traitors?

                        For you personally, in the USA, private collectors always bought planes/tanks and other military equipment of the USSR. In all sorts of ways, including our beloved socialist camp. The GDR, for example, during the massive transition to jet technology, sold all the old planes flying to the West. Without secrets, communications and weapons but flying ones. The USSR stupidly scrapped its own.....
      2. +9
        21 March 2024 05: 34
        They steal from us in trillions, they will find a billion wooden ones for such a thing.
      3. +8
        21 March 2024 06: 03
        Do you think it will cost less to dispose of?)
        1. +3
          21 March 2024 07: 57
          The museum is a must.
      4. +1
        21 March 2024 10: 52
        Since Shoigu’s daughter is in charge of museums, there will be a billion
      5. +2
        21 March 2024 14: 43
        Quote: Aerodrome
        Do you have an extra billion?

        A billion rubles is a ridiculous amount by the standards of our budget.
      6. 0
        21 March 2024 20: 20
        Quote: Aerodrome
        did you read carefully? Do you have an extra billion?

        Do you think this is a lot?? To save SUCH PLAN??
        May I remind you that the disposal (!) of one Orlan-class cruiser, Project 1144, costs approximately 5 billion rubles? And the "Shark" has a displacement no less. Plus durable titanium cases.
        I am sure that the cost of the work to transform Donskoy into a museum, with its movement to St. Petersburg and the organization of a place for the exhibition, will cost more. And there will be a lot of trouble with this too. But it's definitely worth it. And not only that, it will pay off. Because "Shark" is huge. You can even organize a “thematic hotel”, a “thematic restaurant” in it, for the hotel there is already a wonderful sauna with a swimming pool (!!), there you can organize classes for conducting classes for Nakhimovites and cadets of naval (and not only) schools (now their they call it military institutions). Excursions, photo sessions, the opportunity to film films on board, etc., etc., etc. This will definitely not bring profit and the same effect if it is turned into a museum in Severodvinsk or even Arkhangelsk, but if it ends up in this capacity in St. Petersburg (!!) ... this will be the highlight of any city tour. You don't even have to doubt it.
        But the most important thing is that the descendants will have the MEMORY of the achievements of their GREAT ANCESTORS, for whom the impossible did not exist and there were no unsolvable tasks.
      7. 0
        22 March 2024 01: 09
        Give the bankers a run for their money. They have record profits every year, they stupidly don’t know what to do with the money. Soon the whole country will be milked dry for the sake of beautiful numbers on the accounts.
      8. 0
        6 May 2024 02: 40
        It will definitely be over a yard. Well, it’s okay, the budget of the Ministry of Defense is 10 trillion, so 0,01% can be found. Timurchik, with the rank of army general, stole much more...
    2. +3
      21 March 2024 10: 55
      Eh, my dream of visiting the Shark......is now apparently unrealistic. The new-old government doesn’t need this......and this money is just dust for them. It's a shame.
      1. +2
        21 March 2024 17: 13
        Quote: Alien From
        Eh, my dream is to visit the Shark...... now it seems like a pipe dream

        But I visited once inside the Shark, wandered around the boat. We had to walk on the deck quite often. The size and power were amazing. It's a pity that all this turns into piles of iron.
        My opinion is that their 3 remaining Sharks could have been recreated by cannibalism at least one combat unit. And not necessarily with strategic missiles. The option with weapons of a hundred “Calibers” is the most optimal and most in demand today. One such ship could keep a small country in fear and unravel the entire military and civilian infrastructure, even non-nuclear ones.
        1. +2
          21 March 2024 20: 34
          Quote: Gritsa
          My opinion is that their 3 remaining Sharks could be recreated by cannibalism at least one combat unit. And not necessarily with strategic missiles. The option with weapons of a hundred “Calibers” is the most optimal and most in demand today.

          The cost of such modernization will be higher than the cost of the NEW "Borea-A" or "Borea-K". At the same time, the modernized “Shark” will have a residual life of about 15 years... well, if you try really hard, about 20 years. Is it worth it?
          Moreover, the “Sharks” were created to swim through the ice of the Arctic, break through the ice with their hull and strike the survivors after the first exchange of blows, potential. And as a carrier of a missile launcher with SUCH dimensions... where should she be on duty? So that their CDs can achieve their goals? How to ensure stealth with SUCH SIZES, if today the main methods of detecting submarines are carried out by radar using the water hump. And the water hump of the “Shark” will be VERY expressive. In addition, a lightweight body of SUCH dimensions will resonate very well under the low-frequency illumination of modern enemy sonar systems. "Shark" is not suitable for this kind of task. And we have decent missiles for their launch tubes request No . "Bulava" is 2+ times lighter than what was there before.
          So the museum from "Shark" is the optimal solution. But for this you need to drag her to St. Petersburg." And this is only possible after the Victory - in a calm and peaceful time. In the meantime, let him calmly await his fate where it is.
  2. +1
    21 March 2024 05: 04
    The titanium body(s) is practically eternal, so even as a semi-stationary submersible combat platform cannot be used, only in the key to the development of museum business?
    1. +7
      21 March 2024 05: 19
      As far as I remember, only the central post and torpedo compartment are made of titanium, and therefore the wear and tear of other structures does not cancel this out. And there is such a phenomenon as metal fatigue too. But the biggest problem is the cable routes; over time, the insulation on the cables dries out and problems begin with the leakage of parasitic voltages, shorts and other problems, leading to the cable routes catching fire. But it is very difficult to fight a fire in them, and the smoke is poisonous. And replacing them is a complex and very labor-intensive process and also costs up to ***, generally expensive. hi
      1. +2
        21 March 2024 05: 34
        Not at all - all the strong casings are made of titanium, with cable routes, too, not everything is clear, only in the reactor stage, and they are replaced, although this is not the easiest task. About metal fatigue - I beg you, not with such “intensive” operation
        1. 0
          21 March 2024 06: 59
          Quote: mark1
          About metal fatigue - I beg you, not with such “intensive” use

          One dive to a slightly greater maximum depth is enough.
          1. 0
            21 March 2024 17: 47
            Quote: your1970
            One dive to a slightly greater maximum depth is enough.

            Well, it will be written off, but what does TK-208 have to do with it?
        2. 0
          21 March 2024 15: 51
          Quote: mark1
          Not at all - all durable cases are titanium

          Why do you think so? We had titanium boats, but not all of them.

          Quote: mark1
          About metal fatigue - I beg you, not with such “intensive” use

          It's true. How tired can there be if the boats have been laid up for thirty years.
          1. +1
            21 March 2024 17: 52
            Quote: DenVB
            We had titanium boats, but not all of them.

            When I say strong hulls, I mean the strong hulls of the nuclear submarine TK-208 Project 941, there are several of them and they are titanium.
            1. -1
              21 March 2024 18: 14
              Quote: mark1
              This refers to the durable hulls of the nuclear submarine TK-208 Project 941, there are several of them and they are titanium.

              I didn't know they were titanium. Then the desire to quickly send these boats for cutting becomes completely understandable. Double earnings - first on the recycling contract, then on the sale of titanium.
            2. 0
              31 March 2024 00: 36
              When I say strong hulls, I mean the strong hulls of the nuclear submarine TK-208 Project 941, there are several of them and they are titanium.

              Sorry, but all (ALL) Project 941 boats do not have titanium hulls. They are steel. Offhand, titanium projects: 661, 705, 945, 685.
  3. +11
    21 March 2024 05: 15
    The cost of rebuilding Dmitry Donskoy could easily exceed a billion rubles.

    The cost of the newest crap called pr. 22160 is from 6,5 billion rubles. What is ~10 million greenbacks for the military budget? This is a drop in the bucket. If you choose between 941 and some stupid tank rides 2024, which will cost an order of magnitude more money... then the choice is obvious. But the show-offs, as usual, will win.
  4. -4
    21 March 2024 07: 21
    Yesterday I wrote that “Dmitry Donskoy” is an ideal platform for an ocean space launch from the equator. In this case, it becomes possible to collect splashed down stages while ensuring their buoyancy.
    1. +4
      21 March 2024 09: 41
      For an ocean space launch WHAT?
      Already one platform, specialized for this matter, mind you (!!!!), is lying around and rotting idle. Should I take another one for balance?
      And how are you going to drag these steps onto it? Will you weld a crane onto the missile deck? Or by hand, by sailors?
      1. +1
        21 March 2024 10: 22
        The Americans are already landing on land, but we can’t lift a floating cargo with a crane?
        And launches are possible both from recyclable carriers and promising reusable ones. And most importantly - massively. What kind of grouping do we need in the theater of operations?
        1. +5
          21 March 2024 10: 55
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          And launches are possible both from recyclable carriers and promising reusable ones.

          If launches with the boat going out to sea are possible, then it is possible to operate the boat for its intended purpose. Project 941 boats are Arctic boats intended for combat duty under the polar cap. The weight of the boat made it possible to break through almost any Arctic ice upon ascent; in addition, missiles capable of breaking through ice were being developed for under-ice launches. The boat had excellent autonomy and comfortable conditions for the crew. The natural crackling of the ice made it difficult to detect, and the polar cap provided protection from enemy surface ships and aircraft. The boat could simply be anchored under the ice on combat duty. The fact that the Americans insisted on the destruction of these particular boats is evidence of their high degree of threat to the enemy.
          The R-39 missiles were solid propellant, meaning they were more durable than those that remained on earlier boats. The supply of missiles was sufficient, especially considering the missiles from the first two cut boats. Finally, the larger diameter of the shafts made it possible to use inserts for any missiles of smaller diameter, be it Sineva or Bulava. The Americans on the Ohio made inserts into the shaft under the Kyrgyz Republic (pictured). The destruction of these boats was stupidity and betrayal.
          1. +4
            21 March 2024 11: 48
            Quote: Per se.
            The R-39 missiles were solid propellant, meaning they were more durable than those that remained on earlier boats.

            Liquid-fuel SLBMs have a longer service life due to the ability to replace fuel.
            After 39, the R-1991 did not physically have the possibility of replacing fuel - because there was no fuel itself. The Pavlograd chemical plant remained in Ukraine, and the production of fuel tanks for large ballistic missiles died there, leaving not only the main caliber of Project 941, but also the BZHRK without fuel. And the Russian TT required the development of a new SLBM - the long-suffering “Bark” destroyer” (test benches).
            Quote: Per se.
            The supply of missiles was sufficient, especially considering the missiles from the first two cut boats.

            Taking into account the fact that all these missiles were produced in the USSR, their fuel life expired at approximately the same time.
            Quote: Per se.
            Finally, the larger diameter of the shafts made it possible to use inserts for any missiles of smaller diameter, be it Sineva or Bulava.

            That is, for the sake of light SLBMs, the Navy had to re-equip and operate huge water carriers, the infrastructure for which even the USSR could not build? It would be especially good to install the liquid Sineva with its “wet” start in the R-39 silos with their “dry” launch.
            Moreover, all this will need to be done, with the prospect of decommissioning all SSBNs Project 941 in the 2020s simply due to the wear and tear of the submarines themselves.
            And there will be no Boreevs until the Sharks are decommissioned - they will not be included in the restrictions of the START treaties.
            1. +7
              21 March 2024 13: 48
              Quote: Alexey RA
              That is, for the sake of light SLBMs, the Navy had to re-equip and operate huge water carriers, the infrastructure for which even the USSR could not build?

              Everything was described correctly, Alexey. I can only recall the words of Socrates in response, “Those who want, look for opportunities, those who don’t want, look for reasons. ".
              What happened to the fleet is a consequence of what happened to the country. The Moscow "Maidan" of 1991, a good direction of the anti-constitutional coup d'etat, when not only the country's constitution was violated, but also the results of the all-Union referendum for the preservation of the Soviet Union.
          2. +8
            21 March 2024 11: 56
            There's nothing to add. The boats did not really serve. Even at the beginning of the 2000s, there was still an opportunity to return them to combat service. But, to please our overseas partners, everything was done to kill them completely. And now everywhere there are only excuses about obsolescence, “complex” infrastructure and lack of ammunition.
            The oldest Ohio in '26 will be fifty years old. Laid out in 1976. And no one whines about obsolescence there. Serves.
            1. -5
              21 March 2024 14: 14
              Quote from Alex
              The boats didn’t really serve

              Their very creation was a mistake - unnecessary gigantomania!
              If we can make a museum, that would be great!
              And not necessarily in St. Petersburg.
            2. +1
              23 March 2024 18: 04
              Quote from Alex
              The oldest Ohio in '26 will be fifty years old. Laid out in 1976. And no one whines about obsolescence there. Serves.

              They extended the service life of the B-52 to “unlimited.” belay feel A little more and they will be 100 years old...
          3. +1
            21 March 2024 17: 19
            Quote: Per se.
            The Americans on the Ohio made inserts into the mine under the Kyrgyz Republic (pictured)

            This is what I understand - as a housewife. Pindos can count money. But with us, just cut it and the problem is gone.
        2. +1
          21 March 2024 11: 29
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          And launches are possible as recyclable media

          You Article did you read????!!! To him there is nothing disposed of a long time ago - but the new one never really came into use....
          1. 0
            21 March 2024 15: 17
            Have you read the article????!!! He had nothing to recycle a long time ago - and the new one never really came into use....

            I was in this project from 1978 to 1992. And I fully know what is possible and what is not. For a sea launch, what matters is the size of the shaft, and not the presence of a standard carrier. So, the liquid-propellant rocket engine, due to its greater energy intensity, will ensure the delivery of quite a decent load into low orbit. And for reconnaissance, a mass launch is the most popular. And Sergei quoted Socrates absolutely correctly:
            - “Whoever wants, looks for opportunities, who doesn’t want, looks for reasons.”

            Such a task would help revive our scientific and technical potential, otherwise, to please the overseas Uncle, we are only likely to degrade.
            1. +2
              21 March 2024 19: 23
              Quote: Victor Leningradets
              So, the liquid-propellant rocket engine, due to its greater energy intensity, will ensure the delivery of quite a decent load into low orbit.

              Gorgeous. That is, you propose to develop from scratch and put into production a fundamentally new launch vehicle with strict restrictions on weight and dimensions.
              And as a result, the patriots will shout obscenities about drinking budget money on the useless duplication of full-fledged land launch vehicles. smile
      2. +1
        21 March 2024 20: 24
        Quote from Alex
        For an ocean space launch WHAT?

        In theory, it would not hurt to have a couple of submarines to launch a satellite communications constellation, in the event that as a result of a global nuclear war all satellites are disabled.
        But it’s unlikely that anyone will do this, since “after us there’s even a flood” and “the whole world is in ruins.”
        1. 0
          21 March 2024 20: 33
          Theoretically, it wouldn’t hurt to have a couple of submarines to launch a satellite communications constellation

          And for this it is necessary to keep a 40-year-old submarine in service? Crew (two), ground infrastructure, carry out regulations, etc.. and so on. and so on???
          No matter how sorry it was, the train left. There was no need to cut them and remove them from the composition, starting from the 90s, I’ll get them for the sake of foam. Now it's just a museum.
          1. 0
            22 March 2024 10: 43
            Quote from Alex
            And for this it is necessary to keep a 40-year-old submarine in service?

            The world's largest submarine. With unique missiles in the silos - because, having the original dimensions of the silos for the R-39, the developers will not save 146% on the MGH of the launch vehicle.
            Moreover, even in Soviet times in the North they were able to make the only working “gallows” for the R-39 - in Severodvinsk. At the permanent location, the reloading crane never started working.
  5. 0
    21 March 2024 08: 48
    Logistics in a war with the USA is everything!!! Instead of strategic missiles, we put containers with anti-ship missiles/air defense/missile defense missiles (all types from hypersonic to TOROV and BUKOV) + ​​UAVs/high-altitude balloons-DLRO. Guard 1/2 "black holes". And on communications to the ocean! am
  6. +6
    21 March 2024 08: 52
    A museum for sure. At least organize a fundraiser via SMS. This is a colossus like no other. If you take it out of the water and put it entirely on a pedestal, then from the outside it will look epic. With such dimensions, the neck will hurt to look at it.
    Patriotic education begins with such examples.
  7. +3
    21 March 2024 09: 18
    Artifacts of the lost civilization of the Great Ones. Sad...
    1. +3
      21 March 2024 11: 52
      Quote from AdAstra
      Artifacts of the lost civilization of the Great Ones. Sad...

      Rather, it is a monument to the great victory of technology over common sense. Or "Yamato" in Russian style.
      1. 0
        21 March 2024 14: 16
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Rather a monument to the great victory of technology over common sense

        in any case, a monument to a certain era - when it was considered possible to produce in parallel 2 types of SSBNs, 3 types of MBTs, etc.... human vanity is immeasurable... request
  8. +5
    21 March 2024 10: 19
    Just wondering, how much money was spent on this farce, which we called “presidential elections”?
    It seems to me that this is not even a question of money, it is a question of preserving the symbols of an era that our current leaders are trying to quickly forget about. Suffice it to recall the drapery of the mausoleum, the renaming of streets and the demolition of monuments.
    But those who have forgotten their history are doomed to repeat it.
    Although in light of current Russian prospects, this may not be a bad thing....
    1. +1
      21 March 2024 11: 35
      Quote: KSVK
      It seems to me that this is not even a question of money, it is a question of preserving the symbols of the era

      And what, in the USSR somewhere they saved PO-2 or any of pre-war airplanes? Or ships? Or tanks?
      A few were in museums....
      Was there historical memory in the USSR??? Yeah, right now
      Quote: KSVK
      Suffice it to recall the drapery of the mausoleum, the renaming of streets and the demolition of monuments.

      And you're right
      Quote: KSVK
      But those who have forgotten their history are doomed to repeat it.
      and the USSR died, forgetting history.
      1. 0
        22 March 2024 18: 38
        Quote: your1970
        Did they keep the PO-2 or any of the pre-war aircraft somewhere in the USSR? Or ships? Or tanks?

        You will also remember how much military equipment found on the battlefields was taken from the country to the West in the 90s, when yours came to power.
        1. 0
          22 March 2024 19: 31
          Quote: DenVB
          Quote: your1970
          Did they keep the PO-2 or any of the pre-war aircraft somewhere in the USSR? Or ships? Or tanks?

          You will also remember how much military equipment found on the battlefields was taken from the country to the West in the 90s, when yours came to power.

          Units - compared to those sent for scrap under the USSR.
          1. 0
            22 March 2024 19: 35
            Quote: your1970
            Units - compared to those sent for scrap under the USSR.

            A wonderful excuse for a thief.
            1. 0
              22 March 2024 19: 59
              Quote: DenVB
              Quote: your1970
              Units - compared to those sent for scrap under the USSR.

              A wonderful excuse for a thief.

              A wonderful situation with parting for historical memory under the USSR.
              What's up...
              Only you forgot that there in the fields where they were dragging equipment for sale - there were soldiers lying unburied throughout the history of the USSR...
              And everyone was just above the knee....
              By the end of the 1980s, they began to slowly look to collect, identify and bury...
              And before that, they covered their eyes with their palms and muttered, “No one is forgotten...”.
              How many of them lie there in the fields, ravines and gullies? But who knows...
              Was this interesting to anyone in the USSR?
              1. 0
                22 March 2024 20: 03
                Quote: your1970
                Was this interesting to anyone in the USSR?

                You might think that this was interesting to you when you collected weapons from these cemeteries to sell to your bandit friends and tank planes to sell to the West, so that with the proceeds you could buy yourself “geldings” and “Boomers” and ride proudly through the streets.
                1. 0
                  22 March 2024 20: 34
                  Quote: DenVB
                  when you collected weapons from these cemeteries to sell to your bandit friends and tank planes to sell to the West, so that with the proceeds you could buy yourself “geldings” and “Boomers” and ride proudly through the streets.

                  Just at this time I served in the army...without the gelding and boomer
                  Quote: DenVB
                  You'd think you'd be interested in this

                  The problem is that in evil capitalism this is interesting - search engines are working, the Ministry of Defense has allocated sappers and people for the search, burials are taking place, relatives of the dead are being found...

                  And under the people’s (like!!) USSR, this was of no interest to anyone. At all...
                  A banal example - if it weren’t for S. Smirnov with his “Brest Fortress”, no one would have known about her feat. The state did not move at all on this issue - they died and died, what’s wrong?
                  1. 0
                    22 March 2024 20: 36
                    Quote: your1970
                    Just at this time I served in the army...without the gelding and boomer

                    When did you start working for thieves?
                    1. 0
                      23 March 2024 17: 20
                      Quote: DenVB
                      Quote: your1970
                      Just at this time I served in the army...without the gelding and boomer

                      When did you start working for thieves?

                      I understood you correctly - that besides hysteria - essentially the question raised about the destruction of historical memory in the USSR through the mass destruction of all equipment and abandoned and unburied WWII soldiers - you have nothing to answer?
                      Thank you, I understand your position.

                      Z.y. and after the army I caught such thieves. And because I caught them well. - I live not in London, but in the Saratov Trans-Volga region
                      1. 0
                        23 March 2024 17: 33
                        Quote: your1970
                        Did I understand you correctly - that apart from the hysteria - essentially the question raised about the destruction of historical memory in the USSR through the mass destruction of all equipment and abandoned and unburied WWII soldiers - you have nothing to answer?

                        Did I understand you correctly. There is nothing to tell you in this life other than hysteria about the USSR. Therefore, you go from discussion to discussion and, as soon as the conversation turns to something even remotely related to the USSR and the memory of it, you begin to be hysterical about the destruction of historical memory in the USSR.

                        Quote: your1970
                        Z.y. and after the army I caught such thieves. And because I caught them well. - I live not in London, but in the Saratov Trans-Volga region

                        Yes, I heard that thieves do not pay their Chaldeans that much. Here's some tea and go, they'll feed you in the kitchen.
                      2. 0
                        23 March 2024 17: 47
                        Quote: DenVB
                        you begin to become hysterical about the destruction of historical memory in the USSR.

                        Do you know the storage location? ten RUNNING T-34 pre-war/BT2?
                        Flying PO-2?
                        Pre-war warships - museums?
                        For you personally, if S. Smirnov had not existed, no one would have known about the feat of the Brest Fortress! Here an honest man was found - he shook up the party bureaucrats...
                        And about the soldiers lying around in the forests, the people of the USSR didn’t even bother to fully calculate the losses. What can we say about funerals and definitions...
                        Z.y
                        Quote: DenVB
                        Here's some tea and go, they'll feed you in the kitchen.

                        Judge for yourself, you probably were fed this way regularly.
                      3. 0
                        23 March 2024 17: 57
                        Quote: your1970
                        Judge for yourself, you probably were fed this way regularly.

                        I haven't encountered such witty answers since fifth grade.
  9. +1
    21 March 2024 11: 12
    In Togliatti, to the museum. They will stand next to the B 307, the view will be epic.
  10. +2
    21 March 2024 11: 14
    The fleet does not like modernizing ships - it is expensive and troublesome. A good upgrade costs up to 60% of the cost of a new ship. Another thing is where to get new ships?
    1. +2
      21 March 2024 11: 56
      Quote: Pavel57
      The fleet does not like modernizing ships - it is expensive and troublesome. A good upgrade costs up to 60% of the cost of a new ship. Another thing is where to get new ships?

      So the main problem with Project 941 is precisely that there is a serial replacement for them. The only thing that the industry and the Navy have no problems with is the new SSBNs. There are no ships to ensure their entry and exit from the bases, the SSBNs for escort are being built at a snail’s pace, there are as many as three new DMZ ships for the defense of the borders of the “bastions” - but the SSBN industry is steadily delivering one a year.
  11. -1
    21 March 2024 13: 01
    It's a pity, of course, it's a unique ship. But I think that as a museum it will be a little expensive.
  12. 0
    21 March 2024 16: 42
    For some reason, it seems to me that today only a very gifted “effective manager” for whom money comes first or simply an idiot can talk about the disposal of any fleet unit that is still capable of combat service. In the USA, with their huge number of nuclear submarines, they are in no hurry to write off their peers, our Sharks.
    1. 0
      22 March 2024 10: 48
      Quote: bug120560
      For some reason it seems to me that today we are talking about the disposal of any fleet unit that is still capable of combat service

      Is she capable? One-time short-term trips to the near zone to work as a test bed for SLBMs are not service.
      Quote: bug120560
      In the USA, with their huge number of nuclear submarines, they are in no hurry to write off their peers, our Sharks.

      In the United States, there are no unique SSBNs built in a defunct state, all of whose functions are completely duplicated by new ships.
      Such ships from the Yankees usually quickly fall into disrepair, being replaced in service by serial ships.
  13. 0
    21 March 2024 19: 57
    why not make a transport nuclear submarine or a research underwater base with deep-sea vehicles for studying the ocean
  14. +1
    21 March 2024 20: 09
    I once proposed using these boats as platforms for launching a reserve satellite constellation (communications satellites) after a global nuclear war, when everything in orbit fails.
    1. 0
      21 March 2024 20: 31
      I once envisioned using these boats as platforms for launching a reserve satellite constellation (communications satellites) after a global nuclear war, when everything in orbit fails

      Totally FOR!
      We just had to start yesterday. But now it’s not too late to work on the task.
  15. 0
    April 22 2024 01: 01
    R-39 is 1,5 times heavier than Trident-2 with worse characteristics
    941 is a forced measure of the USSR because they couldn’t do it any other way then