“Sanitary zone” along the borders: Ukrainian threats and Russian responses

The M142 MLRS is launched missiles. Photo by the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine

The main objectives of the current Special Operation in Ukraine are the demilitarization of the Kyiv regime and getting rid of the military threat from it. To achieve this, the Russian armed forces constantly and systematically destroy equipment and weapon enemy formations, and also strike rear targets. In the future, another way to protect against threats from the Ukrainian direction could be the creation of a “sanitary zone” of sufficient depth, which will ensure the security of our borders.

Stopping threats

To date, the Russian army has successfully destroyed the bulk of the Ukrainian military and military-industrial potential. The enemy's ability to resist and develop independently has sharply decreased. However, at the beginning of 2022, foreign partners, patrons and owners announced their intention to support the Kiev regime in various ways and largely fulfilled this promise.

The main direction of assistance was the supply of various weapons and military equipment. In particular, starting from the summer of 2022, the transfer of long-range missiles and aviation weapons. In accordance with their cannibalistic customs, the enemy began to use them, incl. for civilian objects and populated areas. Our military is learning quite quickly to deal with such threats, but it is not possible to completely eliminate all risks.

In the current situation, the tasks of the Russian armed forces remain the same. They must knock out the military potential of the Kyiv regime and destroy its armed formations. It is also necessary to continue the liberation of temporarily occupied parts of new regions. In addition, plans for the future and strategies for protecting the liberated areas should be made now.

For some time now, the possibility of creating a security zone along our new borders has been mentioned at various levels. This concept provides for the liberation of certain territories from the enemy’s strike weapons and military potential. It is also necessary to create a system of control and, possibly, prevention of their new militarization, incl. by force.

The GLSDB product in the first seconds of flight. Boeing graphics

The topic of the “sanitary zone” is raised at various levels. For example, on March 18, President Vladimir Putin recalled this idea. During a press conference at the end of the elections, he indicated that in the future - when such a need arises - a demilitarized security zone could be created in the current territories of the enemy. The depth of such a zone has not yet been determined, but its configuration should take into account existing threats in the form of strike systems, primarily foreign-made.

The solution

Thus, the Russian leadership does not exclude the possibility of creating a “sanitary zone”, but for now considers it only as one of the options for further actions in solving the main strategic tasks. It cannot be ruled out that such a plan is already being worked out, and relevant organizations and departments are looking for solutions to both basic and additional issues in this context.

First of all, the principles of organizing the demilitarized zone are in question. It may appear as a result of some kind of agreement with the Kyiv regime, existing or future, or with its foreign masters. Such an agreement should define the boundaries of the security zone on Ukrainian territory, as well as a list of assets and forces that are allowed to be kept in it. Sanctions should also be defined in case of violations by the Kyiv regime.

This scenario looks interesting and promising, but its implementation is unlikely. The fact is that it requires the active participation of the enemy and his allies. In the current situation, Kyiv, Washington and other foreign capitals are unlikely to take such measures, at least because of reputational costs.

In the absence of understanding from “foreign partners,” a security zone can be created by our army unilaterally. Within the specified areas, constant surveillance and reconnaissance can be organized with the suppression of any military preparations. The enemy's deployed forces and weapons will be suppressed and destroyed.

Downed AGM-88 air-to-surface missile. Photo Telegram / "Military informant"

Such events will not fundamentally differ from the current Special Operation on Demilitarization, and in essence will become its direct continuation. At the same time, it cannot be ruled out that all actions will be limited only to the “sanitary zone”. In order to prevent violations and provocations, it is also possible to use force on rear targets, through which the enemy will try to militarize the security zone.

Security zone

The dimensions, configuration and other parameters of the hypothetical demilitarized zone have not yet been determined. However, the Russian leadership has already made hints in this regard. Thus, the president recently stated that this zone will be located on the territory of a neighboring state, and its depth depends on the weapons available to the enemy. In this regard, it is necessary to consider the strike systems available to the Kyiv regime, as well as methods of protection against them.

The longest-range ground fire weapons of Ukrainian formations are the M270 MLRS and M142 HIMARS MLRS with GLSDB ammunition. The latter is a GBU-39/B SDB guided bomb with a rocket engine for launch from a ground installation. The maximum flight range of such a product reaches 150 km. Standard ammunition for the M270 and M142 from the GMLRS family only flies 90 km.

Last year, the United States transferred to Ukraine a number of ATACMS ballistic missiles of one of the early modifications. In terms of firing range, this weapon does not exceed the GLSDB, but compares favorably with its combat load. Recently there were reports about the possibility of shipping more advanced tactical missiles of the same line with a range of up to 300 km. It is unclear whether it will be possible to install them.

Almost a year ago, the Kiev regime received British Storm Shadow air-launched cruise missiles of British production and unified French SCALP-EG. The maximum flight range of these products is 550 km. At the same time, current international agreements allow missiles for export to fly only 300 km. In addition, disputes continue in Germany about the possibility of supplying similar ALCMs TAURUS KEPD 350 to Ukraine. Their rated range exceeds 500 km, but the same export restrictions apply.

French SCALP-EG missile under the wing of a Ukrainian Su-24. Photo: Telegarm/BMPD

In the case of air-launched missiles, it should be taken into account that their combat radius is determined not only by their own characteristics, but also by the flight data of the carrier aircraft. As carriers of Storm Shadow and Scalp, the Ukrainian Air Force uses Su-24 bombers with a combat radius (at normal load) of 500-550 km.

The enemy is also trying to use disposable attack UAVs. There are a number of types of such equipment, and the most advanced ones have a declared flight range of up to 800-1000 km.

Thus, to protect Ukrainian forces from current weapons, a security zone with a depth of 150-300 km is required. For comparison, within a radius of 300 km from Belgorod are Dnepropetrovsk (Ukrainian Dnepr) and Kremenchug, and Kharkov and Poltava fall into a similar “sanitary zone” around Donetsk. The 300-km zone, measured from the borders of Crimea, covers Odessa, Kirovograd (Ukrainian Kropyvnytskyi), Krivoy Rog, etc.

A security zone for protection against ground strikes, drawn from the current borders and front line, will block a significant part of Ukrainian territory. With the liberation of new Russian regions, it will move westward with an understandable result.

In this case, we are talking only about protection against surface-to-surface missiles. Enemy attempts to use existing ALCMs will expose airfields within a radius of up to 1000 km from the contact line to attack. Almost all Ukrainian airfields will become targets for demilitarization. Potential UAV launch sites require similar attention.

British-made Banshee Jet 80+ attack UAV. Photo Telegram / D.V. Pushilin

Defense and prevention

Thus, the main threat to border areas, including new regions, is represented by various means of air attack, aviation and land. At the same time, our armed forces, represented by calculations Defense demonstrated the ability to combat such threats and to strike back. It is obvious that the experience of current military operations will be useful in the future to ensure a security zone.

Current types of radars have confirmed their ability to detect all expected air targets, from aircraft to missiles. SAMs and air defense missile systems, in turn, constantly demonstrate the ability to shoot down such objects, including complex targets. The placement of modern air defense systems along the border of the “sanitary zone” will make it possible to get rid of threats in a timely manner, incl. over enemy territory.

At the same time, a reconnaissance system and strike systems are required to thwart enemy attempts to return forces and assets to the demilitarized zone. Similar tasks are also being successfully solved at present and contribute to the ongoing demilitarization of Ukraine. Detected activity can be suppressed using various missiles and other land, air or sea-based weapons.

Possible scenarios

Despite the active and diverse support of foreign partners, the military potential of the Kyiv regime is constantly declining. His defeat is already obvious, and the timing of such an outcome is determined only by the actions and plans of the Russian side. In this regard, it is now possible to work out scenarios for future developments aimed at ensuring the security of our borders.

One such scenario involves the creation of a security zone along the border in which Ukraine will not be able to conduct any military construction or preparations. Reportedly, the Russian leadership is still only studying this issue, but does not exclude the possibility of a positive decision and the subsequent organization of a “sanitary zone”. Moreover, even now, before decisions are made, it is clear that our army will be able to cope with such tasks and cover a strategically important area. Whether this opportunity will be used, time will tell.

Comments

[Mikhail Ivanov]

Talking about a buffer zone is an attempt to avoid solving the problem at its root! Taking into account the new types of long-range weapons that the West will give Kyiv, we can confidently say that Russia’s buffer zone is located in Romania, Poland and Finland with the neutral status of these countries. In any other scenario, everything that happens will continue. Besides, they can always set fire to the same Kazakhstan...

[Civil]

1. The only analogue in world history of the concept of “sanitary zone” is the “demilitarized zone” - a territory in which, according to an international treaty or other (including internal) act, military installations and other objects are liquidated, the maintenance of armed forces formations, the construction of fortifications, performing military maneuvers and so on..
2. Of the known demilitarized zones, the following are active:
- DMZ along the 38th parallel in Korea, width 40 km, length 241 km.
- DMZ in Cyprus "UN Green Line" width from 3,3 km to 7,4 km length 180 km.
- DMZ between Israel and SAR width from 500 to 10 km length 80 km.
3. Of the inactive ones, these are the Rhine DMZ, the Iraq-Kuwait DMZ,

Thus, if under the “Sanitary Zone” we assume the DMZ, then according to the LBS it is a maximum width of 40 km between the warring parties and a length of 1200 km. It will be 48 square kilometers.

[Good Evil]

Both DMZ and SZ are agreements. And we already know how to negotiate with them. Contracts are not worth the paper they are written on!

[klev72]

This is beneficial for us in the future.

[Egeny]

"...for us" - who is this for?
It is said that only “denacilization” and “demilitarization”... and that’s all

[Vicontas]

Did you think that they would say: “I wanted to visit my godfather for a glass of tea, to give him the hetman’s mace”?

[Egeny]

...well, how can I say... a tame godfather is better than a clown.)

[klev72]

While there is chatter about the peace plans of the Russian Federation, the whole world will be even more convinced of the legitimacy of our decision, like Turkey, to push back the borders to the Dnieper. Taking into account Boo’s law on the impossibility of negotiations, VVP will not take his word for it, he said it a hundred times. In one word, we gain time for the calm pressure of Sun until... Let them scratch their tongues, we’ll hang them later (c)

[Egeny]

It’s not enough to get to the Dnieper, you need to get to Poland.

[klev72]

I agree completely. Just don’t forget that real politics is flexible and reacts to any movements of the participants here and now. That’s why my words relate to this situation; the TCs do not contradict the direction of movement towards the goal that unites us. First the Dnieper, after Odessa, then Transnistria and Lviv.

[blackGRAIL]

Agreements concluded by the parties upon the mutual cessation of hostilities. Ukraine Ze is precisely not going to stop hostilities because for Ze it is Death. But we don’t have the strength to force her to stop them in the foreseeable future (before the US elections).

[bayard]

Quote from: blackGRAIL

Ukraine Ze is precisely not going to stop hostilities because for Ze it is Death.

And this makes it easier for us to complete denazification and demilitarization (no matter how trite it may sound). And the “security zone” has been officially announced, which means that the enemy will have to move at least 40-50 km from the north. - so that artillery shells and MLRS of the "Grad" type do not reach. At the next stage, “the security zone should be about 200 km in order to exclude the use of heavy MLRS. The next stage is access to the state border of the USSR. And the transformation of all countries of the Young NATO members - former Warsawites - into a demilitarized security zone.
And Russia's security in the western direction will be ensured.

[Dante Alighieri]

And Russia’s security in the western direction will be ensured

The main thing in the implementation of this brilliant strategy is not to end on its own, otherwise, given the tendency of the country’s current leadership to grind about strengthening its position, this scenario is more than achievable.
So for now, Vitaly, your reasoning, with all due respect, is nothing more than a nightingale’s “Kyiv in 3 days...”

[bayard]

Quote: Dante

Your reasoning, with all due respect, is nothing more than the nightingale “Kyiv in 3 days...”

Unfortunately, this war will last for a long time. And we are already there. It will no longer be possible to jump out; a truce is a guaranteed continuation of it in a short time under much worse conditions. So you have to fight and you have to win. We are placed in such conditions today. And the question of the banal survival of our entire People, Country and... power... is what it is. This reached the authorities later than everyone else, but it did. And that's why you have to win.
This war is rumbling outside my window right now... And with such a number of ground forces, since the summer of 2022, we have had no choice but to stand on strategic defense for the entire period of training and arming a group of troops sufficient for victory.
Who should be rewarded for these crimes on these forums back in 2022, we ground down all the keyboards, so there is no point in repeating ourselves for a long time.
This year will be very difficult, but in many ways decisive. Next year I hope for Victory. . . But we still have to live to see it.
My hand is healing now... Get better.

[Dante Alighieri]

Thank you, of course, for your kind words. Take care of yourself - this is the only thing we can do in this situation. Especially since there is a feeling that under the current government, by the end of this whole wise and carefully planned operation, hardly anyone from the people will be left to rejoice at the victory achieved. Perhaps only pensioners and the officials themselves. The birth rate is already breaking all anti-records of the 90s, losses at the front, although classified, but adequate people are able to figure out what's what. Even if we have not yet achieved parity with the Ukrainians in this matter, for such an elderly country as ours this is still a pitchfork. Oh well, they will bring in more guests from Central Asia and Africa, no problem. But it is unclear why this campaign was needed at all, the predictable result of which is only one - the final solution of the Russian question ...

[bayard]

Quote: Dante

But it’s not clear why this campaign was needed at all, the predicted result of which is only one - the final solution to the Russian question...

This is exactly what it was intended for. And for a very long time. On the other side of the front, Russian people are also dying, only re-trained.
The Kremlin was provoked into the North Military District, at the same time setting the condition that it was impossible not to start right now, on the other hand... the day before there was a visit to Moscow by the head of the CIA, where the American side guaranteed that it would not interfere and even the embassy would be evacuated (and by the way, they evacuated immediately same, having gathered the day before).
And the towers had to fly into the North Military District without any special preparation or building up the group to any acceptable parameters... And get what happened. They flew into a trap, but it was not possible to escape, even at the cost of the Istanbul agreements (and this is very good, because otherwise it would have been very bad).
But awareness of their future fate did not reach the towers right away... and not to everyone...
Let's see what cabinet of ministers will meet after the inauguration, then we will see what to expect from the future.
And we need our own Coalition.
Not self-propelled guns (which is also very necessary), but precisely its own military-political and economic Coalition. And the appearance of NATO troops in/on may well lead to the appearance of some Allied Forces on our side.
Just think about the fact that in some strange way our strategic nuclear forces, which were supposed to completely and finally degrade by 2022, turned out to be practically (with the exception of a certain number of old "Voevodas") updated, new means of destruction appeared at strategic depth, which are impossible/senseless to counter. And all this against the backdrop of the "rampant criminal power" ... With our potential, we are now like a bull covering a sheep not only the USA, but also all of NATO and its allies. And now the RF Armed Forces are pulling themselves up to a level almost inaccessible to NATO. Such things, despite foolishness and stupidity, do not fall from the sky. And this could not be done publicly and deliberately.
So we have every chance of Victory. But we did not choose the war.

[bayard]

Quote: bayard

SV RF RF

SV RF Armed Forces.

[Dante Alighieri]

The Kremlin was provoked into the North Military District, at the same time setting the condition that it was impossible not to start and right now, on the other hand...

You know, Vitaly, I understand something about international politics, and politics in general, after all, a honors diploma in “The Evolution of Ideological Paradigms in the Foreign Policy of the Russian State” obliges me. And it’s hard for me to believe in these semi-mythical traps, as well as mines laid by Ilyich. Of course, you can find quite a lot of examples of pre-prepared traps in foreign policy, but almost all of them are the result of such subtle and cunning manipulations that the direct beneficiaries cannot be immediately identified. In the situation with Ukraine, everything was stitched together with such obvious threads that allowing oneself to be driven into such a stalemate is an indicator of the complete professional unsuitability of the Russian administrative apparatus.

In general, I often think that our “elite” is very lucky that we live in Russia, and not, for example, in Japan, otherwise after such a mistake they would have only one option left - to make a public sepuku and thereby wash away at least part of the shame brought upon you. But a Russian person is much more patient than the average resident of Japan and can endlessly appoint to leadership positions those who sit down to play a chess game not even with checkers in their hands, but with dominoes.

Just think about the fact that in some strange way our strategic nuclear forces, which were supposed to be completely and completely degraded by 2022, turned out to be practically (with the exception of a certain number of old "Voevods") updated, new weapons of destruction to a strategic depth appeared, which are impossible to counteract \meaningless.

And who said that they have not degenerated? The mace is orders of magnitude inferior to the same Sineva or Liner; Status-6 and Burevestnik are rejects of Soviet engineers, who were taken out of the archives, brushing off half a century of dust, without even thinking about the fact that they were shelved for a reason; instead of the Voivode you mentioned, whose service life was coming to an end throughout the XNUMXs, monoblock Topols were installed in the mines and how many missiles were replaced in this way - we will never know; about strategic aviation, everything became clear after the drone attack on Engels. The only achievements that one can really be proud of are Yars and Dagger, and even those, it seems to me, were made more “in spite of” than “thanks to.” Moreover, I personally have many questions about the Dagger (after all, I studied using Soviet patterns and we were taught physics well), but for some reason I have more faith in the solution to the problem of controlling a hypersonic missile through a plasma cloud than positive buoyancy Poseidon))))

[Netl]

Quote: Dante

the situation with Ukraine was all stitched together with such obvious threads that it was easy to let yourself be driven into such a stalemate

IMHO, there is no PAT even now, but you are probably making your assessment based on the fact that the Russian Federation wanted to win a military victory. But in reality, there was no talk of victory even during planning, but they wanted to conclude a new agreement and we know its text approximately from Istanbul publications.

Quote: Dante

indeed, you can be proud - this is Yars and Dagger

Yars is a Topol with multiple warheads, and Dagger is an Iskander suspended on an aircraft. And most of the Dagger’s flight is at a speed insufficient for the formation of a plasma cloud.

Among the real achievements of modern times, one can note the massive use of gliding bombs.

[bayard]

Quote: Dante

I have a hard time believing in these semi-mythical traps, as well as the mines laid by Ilyich.

To be honest, Stalin spoke about such a mine during the creation of the USSR as a union state during the discussion of this issue, on the eve of its (USSR) creation. Stalin was in favor of these pieces of the Republic of Ingushetia joining the RSFSR, which was already a federal state. But Lenin insisted on his own. He then still dreamed of the World Revolution and the United States of Europe. Russia, according to his plan, was supposed to become just an annex and simply enter these United States.
So, although such statements jar the ears of the Soviet people, this is exactly what happened - the USSR was blown up by the national question and liquidated by the method of ... "dissolution" by the decision of three conspirators.
I was much more offended by the "galoshes". It was as if something personal had spilled out here.

Quote: Dante

In the situation with Ukraine, everything was stitched together with such obvious threads that allowing oneself to be driven into such a stalemate is an indicator of the complete professional unsuitability of the Russian administrative apparatus.

Regarding the quality of the administrative apparatus and the state administration itself, I agree. And the fact that there was no "Plan B" caused a shock among all sensible people... this simply cannot be. But that is exactly what happened.
But it was only possible to undertake such an adventure in conditions... when it was necessary to act immediately, and there were only those forces that existed (almost nothing). So what could be the reason for such a “hasty” decision?
The answer/half-hint to this reason was given at the very beginning of the SVO by M. Khazin, and a little later. A. Kozakov. The fact is that the task of the landing on Gostomel was not to capture Kyiv or a bridgehead for this, but to capture a certain cargo on the territory of Gostomel, which was in the hangar of the Mriya, and on board it. This was exactly the goal. I won’t retell it; it’s better to listen to Mikhail or Alexander.

Quote: Dante

after such a blunder, they would have only one option left - to make a public sepuku and thereby wash away at least part of the shame they brought.

Only people of Duty, people of Honor with a developed sense of Responsibility can do this. For 30 years, such people were rejected when promoted to power.

Quote: Dante

And who said that they have not degenerated?

According to the original planners' plan (several years before the collapse of the USSR), by 2022 Russia was not supposed to have any ICBMs or serviceable nuclear weapons. I have known about these plans and deadlines since 1985.
And the war began precisely in 2022, as was planned even then.
But by this time Russia found itself with updated strategic nuclear forces. But for the United States and the West as a whole, it’s the other way around - strategic nuclear forces have become very much degraded. An example is England. And the United States is not in a much better situation - it has practically no combat-ready ICBMs, already very old SLBMs and SSBNs and ancient strategic aviation. And this is an indisputable fact.
As well as the fact that the Russian Federation has almost all new ICBMs (except for the few remaining Voevods) and are in good combat-ready condition. And YES, all or almost all of the aircraft have undergone modernization, with replacement of engines and updating of avionics. And new CDs for them.

Quote: Dante

The mace is orders of magnitude inferior to the same Sineva or Liner

Well, why so categorically?? In terms of throw weight, the Bulava is inferior to the Liner by 2 times. And in terms of range by about 2000 km. (9000 versus 11 km.). But the specific power of modern Russian nuclear warheads has also increased (there was even an article about this on VO). Therefore, of course, it is not an analogue of the Trident-000, but they are new, on new SSBNs and already in fairly commercial quantities. The Bulava in terms of warhead composition is approximately equal to the Yars. And this is not bad at all. In addition, we still have 2 Dolphins with Liners on board in service/available. And in the current reality, no one will write them off. Especially since they were recently rearmed with Liners. And the resource of these SLBMs is still VERY high.
So, in all three positions of the strategic nuclear forces, we have complete order. With almost complete disorder in the USA and England. And NATO has not interfered so far only because we have very combat-ready strategic nuclear forces. That is why they imposed on us a conventional conflict with a very inconvenient enemy - practically with our reflection - with the same Russians, but reprogrammed. Not a single European power or their entire coalition would withstand the intensity of the battles that are now taking place in the SVO.
But this is not at all an excuse for those scoundrels and embezzlers who plundered the Mobilization Reserve, did not prepare any mobilization measures, did not bother with Communications, UAVs for reconnaissance and target designation, normal uniforms (the RF Armed Forces just acquired them since last summer) ... Yes, for everything, for what does the Moscow Region and General Staff answer?

[Dante Alighieri]

To be honest, Stalin spoke about such a mine during the creation of the USSR as a union state during the discussion of this issue, on the eve of its (USSR) creation. Stalin was in favor of these pieces of the Republic of Ingushetia joining the RSFSR, which was already a federal state. But Lenin insisted on his own

Stop thinking in clichés that sound on TV from the mouths of swindlers posing as historians, and better read the originals, fortunately they are freely available. Stalin was responsible for the development of the national question in the party, because he was deservedly considered a great expert on this topic, since due to his revolutionary activities he had already had to deal with various ethnic and national minorities oppressed by the imperial power. The result of Joseph Vissarionovich's mental research was the work published in 1913, "Marxism and the National Question". We type it into the search, open it and read:

Therefore, social democracy in all countries proclaims the right of nations to self-determination.
The right to self-determination, i.e.: only the nation itself has the right to determine its own destiny, no one has the right to forcibly interfere in the life of the nation, destroy its schools and other institutions, break its morals and customs, restrict its language, curtail its rights.
...
The right to self-determination, i.e. - the nation can arrange itself as it wishes. She has the right to arrange her life on the basis of autonomy. She has the right to join with other nations into federal relations. [p.310] She has the right to separate herself completely. The nation is sovereign and all nations are equal.

Thus, the idea of ​​federalization is Stalin’s idea. Ilyich believed that “It would be incorrect to understand the right to self-determination as anything other than the right to a separate state existence” and thought more about the format of a confederation rather than a federal state. But ultimately it was Stalin’s position that prevailed. However, neither one nor the other format of a unitary state was proposed.

but that’s exactly how it all happened - the USSR was blown up by the national question and liquidated by the method of... “dissolution” by the decision of three conspirators.

Wrong again. You see not the cause, but the effect. The USSR destroyed the bourgeois capitalist relations that had developed within the CPSU, which in turn revived the national question, which had previously been largely suppressed by the practice of socialism. We read the same Stalin:

A nation is not just a historical category, but a historical category of a certain era, era of rising capitalism. The process of eliminating feudalism and developing capitalism is at the same time a process of formation of people into nations.

That is, there is no nation, no national question without capitalism. In socialism, nations exist for one simple reason - as another birthmark inherited from the old formation, which should completely dissolve over time. This is what the entire state national policy of the USSR was actually aimed at, because the entire so-called policy of concessions to nations was in fact nothing more than the formation of conditions under which the national question, as it seemed to the theoreticians of Marxism-Leninism, becomes maximally harmless to the cause of the proletariat.

The answer/half-hint to this reason was given at the very beginning of the SVO by M. Khazin, and a little later by A. Kozakov. The fact is that the task of the landing on Gostomel was not to capture Kyiv or a bridgehead for this, but to capture a certain cargo on the territory of Gostomel, which was in the hangar of the Mriya, and on board. That was exactly the goal. I won’t retell it; it’s better to listen to Mikhail or Alexander.

Sorry, but I listened to Khazin for a long time, and I realized that all his words need to be divided not even into two or three. He has sensible thoughts and ideas, but in order to isolate them you need to sift through a whole host of openly populist and pro-government statements, and even outright fiction, i.e. lies. In this regard, Khazin is no different from another famous Mikhail, the current State Duma deputy - Delyagin. Both of them, although smart people, are still talkers. Due to this they exist, in the format, as it is now fashionable to say, “info gypsies”. Therefore, I have no faith in their insiders.

I have known about these plans and deadlines since 1985.

Those. Did you know in 85 that the leadership of the USSR would betray the people, the country would fall, and the new authorities would destroy the nuclear shield and did nothing? Kidding. I understand that you are talking about the Dallas plan or something similar, but the point is that the scenario in which the collapse of the USSR took place came as a surprise even to the United States and they had to improvise on the fly. What, for example, George Bush Sr. talked about in his memoirs and numerous interviews.

But by this time Russia found itself with updated strategic nuclear forces.

Well, according to the official version, we were also completely ready for the SVO and everything is going strictly according to plan. In fact, you know everything yourself. Where is the guarantee that the same thing does not happen with strategic nuclear forces? It does not happen that all spheres of society are degrading, and one of them suddenly goes against all trends. Well, it doesn’t happen and that’s all.

The Russian Federation has almost all new ICBMs (except for the few remaining Voevods) and are in good combat-ready condition. And YES, all or almost all of the aircraft have undergone modernization, with replacement of engines and updating of avionics. And new CDs for them.

For some reason there wasn’t enough money for protected hangars for these same planes, so even a toy for 20 thousand rubles could be a threat to them. Jokes aside, I believe that people who actually have access to information about the state of the strategic shield do not sit here on the site and do not write comments. You and I, Vitaly, rely only on open sources and our own empirical experience and conclusions made on its basis. You want to think that everything is fine with us and you have every right to do so. I prefer real facts to faith and believe that it is better to be on the safe side a hundred times than to console yourself with thoughts that everything is fine. Who will be right - as always, time will tell, but I will not be upset at all if in this case your point of view triumphs .

[bayard]

Quote: Dante

Stop thinking about the clichés heard on TV from the mouths of swindlers posing as historians, and better read the sources, since they are freely available.

I have been a member of the Military Scientific Society since 1985 and my works were sent to the All-Union competition back in my cadet years, so I am also somewhat familiar with the topic and have witnessed many of the events. But you took Stalin's quote from 1913 and attributed it to the events after the end of WWI and GW, when discussing the type of state at the proclamation of the USSR. Don't you think that the author's opinions could have been somewhat adjusted over such an eventful period? Besides, Stalin was not a dogma and tried to correct the mistakes he made, rather than persist in them.

Quote: Dante

Ilyich believed that “it would be wrong to understand the right to self-determination as anything other than the right to a separate state existence” and rather thought of a confederation format,

So, according to Lenin's plan, the USSR was supposed to become something like a confederation, because the RSFSR was already a federation. And in this he was supported by those who would later form the Tortskyite wing. Stalin, however, was for a single federal state. But he remained in the minority and later transformed the USSR into a "family of nations" with a powerful and rigid centralized government. In essence, the USSR became something like a unitary state (such a term was out of the question at the time). And under Stalin, especially in the pre-war and post-war periods, representatives of the central government (after the war, mainly Russians) became first secretaries in the republics, and only the second secretary was a representative of the titular nationality of the republic. That is, there was a "strengthening of personnel" and the prevention of national isolation of the republics.

Quote: Dante

You see not the cause, but the effect. The USSR destroyed the bourgeois capitalist relations that had developed within the CPSU, which in turn revived the national question, which had previously been largely suppressed by the practice of socialism.

The USSR was destroyed by the degeneration of the elites - the communists wanted to become capitalists. And they did. But the mine had already been there since 1922, and the degenerated elites became its detonator. This made the conspirators' task much easier.

Quote: Dante

Sorry, but I listened to Khazin for a long time, and I realized that all his words need to be divided not even into two or three.

Misha is an experienced apparatchik, he knows well when and what to say. And he certainly doesn't make the decisions. But if only Khazin had spoken about the English nuclear warheads in Gostomel (and to be sure, he has already repeated this almost a dozen times). But Sanya Kazakov and one of our former illegal intelligence officers spoke about this. But it was Khazin who described this in more detail than anyone else, which means it was he who was authorized for this. Otherwise I would not have repeated it so many times.

Quote: Dante

I have no faith in their insiders.

But I remember how British intelligence back in the summer of 2014 was dragging around the BU with two nuclear warheads to organize a provocation, passing off the explosions of these munitions in the combat formations of the Ukrainian Armed Forces as a Russian strike "to save its proxies in the Donbass." And I know thanks to what and who managed to prevent this then. And who blew up those very warehouses with hexogen on the approaches to Donetsk, when the Sumerian media had a false start, and the troops turned to flee ... I take such things seriously ... And you can laugh once again about the mined hydraulic structures of the entire Dnieper cascade. No offense, but in addition to stupidity in the world there is also treachery, and evil intent, and the work of special services that get money for this. And, strange as it may seem, the interests of states.

[Dante Alighieri]

In addition, Stalin was not a dogma and tried to correct the mistakes he made, rather than persist in them.

That's true, but who's to say he was wrong about national policy or federalization? Nobody. On the contrary, the party greatly valued his views on this matter. So he had no reason to adjust his position.

Stalin was for a single federal state. But he remained in the minority and later transformed the USSR into a “family of nations” with powerful and rigid centralized control. In essence, the USSR became something like a unitary state (such a term was out of the question then)

There are contradictions in your words. I wanted a federation, but built a unitary state. Like: “it turned out the way it turned out.” In fact, the centralization of the USSR was ensured not by the mythical idea of ​​​​creating a unitary state, allegedly promoted by Stalin, but by the Communist Party, which was both an executive and legislative body, simultaneously acting as a socio-political organization and as a body of state power. This ensured vertical and horizontal connections, and the primacy of law was supplemented and often replaced by public pressure (getting a fine was not as scary as a reprimand at a party meeting). That is why, as soon as the thesis about “leading and directing” was removed, the USSR began to burst at the seams also as a purely state entity. And in general, do not overestimate the omnipotence of Stalin. Despite the apparent unity of command, the supreme body of power under him still remained the Congress, which decided such important issues as the form of government and deviations from the decisions of the Congress could even come back to haunt Stalin.

The USSR was destroyed by the degeneration of the elites - the communists wanted to become capitalists. And they began.

I don’t see any contradictions with what I said earlier, about the same thing just in different words.

Misha is an experienced apparatchik, he knows well when and what to say.

In my subjective opinion, the worst characteristics that you can come up with. In other words, he is a slippery hypocrite and a liar, a conformist, accustomed to adapting to circumstances and selling his opinions, like a woman with low social responsibility with her body.

and to be sure, he has already repeated this almost a dozen times

Well, if you convince people for a long time and persistently that lying down is more effective than standing, and at the same time do not provide any system of evidence, sooner or later people will believe it. Guaranteed tested by state practice. propaganda throughout the 20th century.

And you can once again laugh about the mined hydraulic structures of the entire Dnieper cascade

Well why not? I can just believe this, because there is at least some logic in it, dictated, for example, by military necessity. What logic determines other phantasmagoria is a mystery to me, which, honestly, I’m not even going to solve, leaving them to some Suvorov-Rezun of the future

[bayard]

Quote: Dante

There are contradictions in your words. I wanted a federation, but built a unitary state. Like: “it turned out the way it turned out.”

At the time of the proclamation of the USSR, Stalin was not yet at all so influential as to create something. His program won only in 1928, and power was strengthened and control over the NKVD was established only before the war itself - with the arrival of Beria as People's Commissar.

Quote: Dante

the communist party, which was simultaneously a body of executive and legislative power, at the same time acting as a socio-political organization and as a body of state power.

As the only ruling party that survived and won the Civil War. It could not have been otherwise. But it was Stalin who gradually weakened the role of the party in state life, and by the spring of 1953, he was going to implement a decision to remove the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks from the functions of state administration by renewing and expanding the composition of the Central Committee, leaving it with ideology and training of personnel. In state building, the party for Stalin was an instrument for solving issues and state building, and not an institution of governance and a career ladder for ascending to power. Stalin was building a New Type of State and used the party for this. It was precisely party power in the state that Khrushchev hypertrophied when he abolished the Soviet Government and introduced direct party leadership through economic councils... So do not confuse Khrushchev with Stalin.

Quote: Dante

In other words, he is a slippery hypocrite and a liar, a conformist, accustomed to adapting to circumstances and selling his opinions, like a woman with low social responsibility with her body.

Sit down - two.
Including thanks to Mikhail, our country was carried through many reefs of the 90s. After all, he headed the department of the presidential apparatus, which under Yeltsin was much larger than the government or the Duma combined. All new/appointed ministers were interviewed by him, his reports on all topics from economics to personnel policy landed on the president's desk almost every day. And he fell into disgrace when he tried to remove and, if possible, imprison Chubais. As a result, he himself ended up on all stop lists, he was forbidden to invite him to television broadcasts, take interviews, publish his articles in the press, accept him into government service and, in principle, to any job. Chubais was then all-powerful - the overseer of the banking houses - the masters of Russia and the World.
He is an outstanding economist and expert in public administration. And he calls himself an apparatchik, because he knows the nature of power and the mechanisms for making and implementing decisions very well. And he felt the consequences of the incompleteness of such knowledge himself at one time.
If in the fall of 1992 my friend and I had accepted the offer, then together with Mikhail we would have ended up in that very Gaidar government and in one ministry - the Ministry of Industry (at that time there was still no Trade, but the fact of gathering a couple dozen industrial ministries into one was enough for me to be blown away)... so we would have had a chance to meet each other personally.
But despite our young age, my friend and I, after thinking about it... refused. Politely. Everything was too adventurous and crazy back then, and they didn’t want to take part in the chaos. And so I could have become, if not an oligarch, then... yes, I was already familiar with several future odious oligarchs. Before they became so. Moreover, I had to deal with mutual settlements of enterprises and their bankruptcy. . But what’s interesting is that neither I nor my comrade ever regretted that refusal.
Mikhail is a specialist with a capital letter. But listening to his stuttering speech is really not easy.

[bayard]

Quote: Dante

Those. Did you know in 85 that the leadership of the USSR would betray the people, the country would fall, and the new authorities would destroy the nuclear shield and did nothing? Kidding.

I was too young then to do anything. But I learned that the war would start in 2022 right then.

Quote: Dante

I understand that you are talking about the Dallas plan or something similar, but the point is that the scenario in which the collapse of the USSR took place came as a surprise even to the United States and they had to improvise on the fly.

The performers may have slightly overdid it in some ways, but for the USA this was all expected. Same as for England.

Quote: Dante

It does not happen that all spheres of society are degrading, and one of them suddenly goes against all trends. Well, it doesn’t happen and that’s all.

And yet this is a fact. The Russian Federation can build ICBMs, but the United States cannot. The Russian Federation has fresh and fully combat-ready nuclear weapons, and the United States has this Problems . Don't believe your eyes?
But the point is that the renewal to such an extent affected the Strategic Nuclear Forces. As for the Ground Army... no matter how you rearm and prepare it, if you have only 280 thousand ground forces of the Russian Armed Forces for the largest country in the world by area, then this is not enough even for reliable border protection in peacetime. And here it is time to switch to the idiomatic expressions of the Great and Mighty, which I certainly know how to do, but I will not do now. These pro...loves had to be, and are still having to be corrected during the war itself. That is, to create full-fledged armed forces. But our renewed Strategic Nuclear Forces are the guarantor of such an opportunity for us. So, of course, polymers were pro...loved, but as it turned out, not everyone did.
And that’s why the SVO was called an operation because it was supposed to end within a few weeks. And it looks like it was prepared “on the knees” - in emergency mode. The rest went as usual. And I am not writing this as an excuse for criminals and idlers.

Quote: Dante

For some reason there was not enough money for protected hangars for these same planes, so even a toy for 20 thousand rubles could be a threat to them.

There was not enough Conscience for hangars.
But those who managed to modernize all these aircraft (the Tu-95SMS are really cool) and create new cruise missiles for them, and set up their production on such a scale, deserve all kinds of awards.

Quote: Dante

You and I, Vitaly, rely only on open sources and our own empirical experience and conclusions made on its basis.

85-90% of intelligence collection is done from open sources. Trust a person who has studied intelligence bulletins on rocket-space and aviation-rocket technology over a 20-year period (from the late 60s to the late 80s).

Quote: Dante

You want to think that everything is fine with us and you have every right to do so.

Yes, it’s so “good” that Russian cities and infrastructure facilities are subject to regular strikes, and yesterday Wahhabis recruited by the GUR through MI6 shot countless people in Crocus...
I just try to see the picture as a whole, and not differentiated into the negative, and evaluate the situation based on this.
I came across information that the strength of the Russian Guard has been increased to 730 thousand bayonets... Is this good or bad?
In light of what happened yesterday in Crocus? In light of possible repetitions of this in many other cities?
Or is there now potential to maintain order in the country (there are tons of Wahhabis)? And send 300-400 thousand to the SVO to control the liberated territories, clear the territories of disloyal elements and control communications. Well, and to support the second echelon of our troops.

[Dante Alighieri]

And you can once again laugh about the mined hydraulic structures of the entire Dnieper cascade

No offense, but I would prefer to focus on this issue on the opinion of those who led this process, and they, as I noted above, have the opposite position.

And yet it is a fact. The Russian Federation can build ICBMs, but the United States cannot.

I would not flatter myself with the blind hope that the world's first economy and world hegemon is not able to meet its needs for missiles. These are all unsubstantiated speculations based on outright misinformation, which, among other things, go against the main thesis that guarantees success in any confrontation: “do not underestimate your opponent.”

85-90% of intelligence collection is done from open sources.

Thank you, I know that very well. However, there are areas that are simply not published in the public domain. Everything related to strategic nuclear forces is one of these “dark spots”. We, of course, can indirectly try to feel what is there and how, but this will not give us a reliable picture. Recently, the English public made a fuss about the supposedly deplorable condition of their Vengards, but the Russian average saw exactly the same thing in photographs of domestic nuclear submarines, which, however, did not prevent the latter from performing their functions

and yesterday the Wahhabis recruited by the GUR through MI6 shot countless people in Crocus...

Will there be evidence? Just not from the region, one grandmother/grandfather said, but such that the case does not fall apart in the international court.

I just try to see the picture as a whole, and not differentiated into the negative, and evaluate the situation based on this.

I don't focus on the negative, I simply perceive reality critically. If practice shows that I was mistaken, I readily admit my mistakes. However, so far life has not disappointed me in my beliefs.

I came across information that the strength of the Russian Guard has been increased to 730 thousand bayonets... Is this good or bad? In light of what happened yesterday in Crocus? In light of possible repetitions of this in many other cities?

I will be responsible only for the economic sphere. The withdrawal of 700 thousand male population from real production into the area of ​​essentially wiping pants is not good, because taking into account the office plankton and the bureaucracy, it will turn out that there is no one to work in the real sector, which means that even more foreign ones need to be imported workers, who, as we see, easily replenish the composition of various organized crime groups, worsening the already difficult crime situation, which means that even more guards will be needed to control them. It's a vicious circle. Well, the effectiveness of the Russian Guard was demonstrated by the late Prigozhin in July 2023

[bayard]

Quote: Dante

No offense, but I would prefer to be guided in this matter by the opinion of those who led this process,

Mining process? Or the planning and management of the Northern Military District? And where do you get contacts with them?
I write about what I know and have personally touched. And what was included in the range of my... interests.

Quote: Dante

I would not flatter myself with the blind hope that the world's first economy and world hegemon is not able to meet its needs for missiles.

You can't judge such specific things. And I’m sure that this is definitely not included in the list of your competencies. For me, this is a professional interest that I have been doing for almost 40 years.
I studied the entire history of American rocketry using documents and materials marked "For special use". Including the radvedbuluteni. And all the following years, this was precisely my professional interest. That is why I claim that at the present time, all Minuteman-3 ICBMs can be considered non-combat-ready or, at best (some of them), conditionally combat-ready. And they will have a new ICBM only in a few years and only to begin testing.
In addition, I am quite familiar with the Soviet rocket industry. I knew many designers, including leading and chief ones. And I simply lived on the same site with the director of one plant where the best Soviet (and in the world at that time) ICBMs were manufactured. For several years, I participated in ensuring the landings of Soviet spacecraft, including the only flight of the Buran. I am familiar with this topic firsthand.

Quote: Dante

Everything related to strategic nuclear forces is one of these “dark spots”.

All ICBMs and SLBMs of NATO countries were created under the USSR. Except for France - they did it with their SLBMs later and I know who helped them with this. Their program did not work, the Americans did not share their secrets with them. All the missing technologies (TT mainly) were brought to them on a platter by one person immediately after the collapse of the Union. And the French program went well. I did not know him personally, but I knew his deputies and many of his acquaintances. Therefore, now it is France that has the most recent arsenal of SLBMs and nuclear warheads for them.

Quote: Dante

Yesterday, Wahhabis recruited by the GUR through MI6 shot thousands of people in Crocus...

Will there be evidence? Just not from the region, one grandmother/grandfather said, but such that the case does not fall apart in the international court.

They are already being interrogated and arrests are underway. All will be . I've been waiting for something like this for the last 2-3 weeks. The location was not known and whether this terrorist attack would be isolated.

Quote: Dante

So far life has not disappointed me in my beliefs.

You are a happy person.

Quote: Dante

The withdrawal from real production of 700 thousand snouts of the male population into the area of, in fact, wiping pants,

Actually, before the Northern Military District, the Russian Guard numbered 350 thousand. And all additional forces (about 400 thousand) were deployed to participate in the Northern Military District and cover border areas, strengthen patrolling and ensure the security of defense and strategic enterprises and facilities. And I don’t think these guys are wiping their pants now.

Quote: Dante

and the effectiveness of the Russian Guard was demonstrated by the late Prigozhin in July 2023

These were very strange events, the details of which will not be known soon. Suffice it to say that no one wanted to engage in combat with our PMCs and that what happened was resolved so happily and quickly is a great success and credit to Lukashenko. It is enough to remember that Putin met with the council of commanders and the conversation took place. Now most of the former Wagner fighters have joined the Russian Guard and are carrying out combat missions both in the SVO zone and abroad. They did not go under the Ministry of Defense on principle. Except for a very small group. I would not advise speculating on those events. In addition, after them, many things in the "Danish kingdom" began to improve for the better.
And I knew Dmitry Utkin.

[bayard]

Quote: Dante

Status-6 and Burevestnik are rejects of Soviet engineers who were pulled out of the archives, brushing off half a century of dust, without even thinking about the fact that they were shelved for a reason

The very idea of ​​such projects is in the archive. Today they are implemented at a completely different level. By the way, we (the USSR) had bottom nuclear mines of Special Power and were on duty... So nothing was lying under the carpet, planned implementation was underway. No one really knows what “Poseidon” looks like, so there is no discussion about what it is, what its power, speed, range, stealth are... except for the official ones. I’ll just say that to build at least 4 serial carriers of such ammunition, to form two divisions of submarines, to build capital bases for their basing in wet docks under the mountains with basalt and granite vaults... Don’t you think that this way “they don’t throw dust in the eyes - it turns out to be A LOT EXPENSIVE .
So have no doubt - Poseidon is a real weapon. And its power is terrible.
About "Petrel". Here something became clear about him. It turns out that the incoming air flow is not directly heated by fuel rods, but through a heat exchanger with a liquid-metal carrier. Radiation does not come out and does not leave a corresponding trace (radiation).
Why such a strange missile launcher if there is the X-102 and a new missile launcher with a range of 7500 km. ?
I also asked myself the same question. But in the event of war, there can be many targets on the planet, incl. in the Southern Hemisphere. In addition, these missiles are not subject to the New START framework agreements, which is important for strengthening defense capabilities. A conventional missile launcher is, of course, much simpler and cheaper, but this one has an unlimited range and you can reach any target even in Antarctica... and everywhere.

Quote: Dante

The Voivode you mentioned, whose service life was coming to an end throughout the 2000s

"Voevoda" were accepted into service at the very end of the 80s, if I remember correctly - somewhere in 1986 or 1988. And were produced until 1992 inclusive. Their service life was regularly extended, technical support was provided by specialists of the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau until 2014, and then by the Makeyev Design Bureau, which is engaged in the "Sarmat". In the 00s, these were very young ICBMs and there was no talk of any "degradation" then. These are liquid missiles, their fuel does not degrade like TT in solid-fuel missiles. In them, the warheads themselves degrade over time, and maybe the radio component base. But these are different time frames.

Quote: Dante

about strategic aviation, everything became clear after the drone attack on Engels.

You know, if I were to bring a batch of "Geraniums" to Mexico now, the majority of American Air Force bases would be completely defenseless and would suffer much greater losses than what happened in Engels. I won't even mention the military airfields in Europe.

Quote: Dante

The only achievements that one can really be proud of are Yars and Dagger, and even those, it seems to me, were made more “in spite of” than “thanks to.”

And "Vanguard"? There is no doubt about his capabilities in the United States.
What about Zircon?
What about RVV DB?
And the CR BD is for 7500 km. ?
What about the Su-57, which did go into normal production? Is this all contrary?
Or did some work, often “in spite of”, while others stole to their hearts’ content?
Because of idleness, such things do not appear with a snap of a finger.
Regarding the plasma cocoon, and believe it or not, everyone saw the arrival of the first “Dagger” through the underground storage facility with “Tochka-U”. And that there was a plasma cocoon. And how the guidance system is organized there, no one will tell us for at least 30 years.

[Dante Alighieri]

By the way, we (the USSR) had bottom nuclear land mines of Special Power, they were on duty... So nothing was kept under wraps, the planned implementation was underway. Nobody really knows what "Poseidon" looks like, so there are no discussions about what it is, what is its power, speed, range, stealth... except for the official ones. I will only say that building at least 4 serial carriers of such ammunition, forming two divisions of submarines, building capital bases for their basing in wet docks under mountains with basalt and granite arches... Don't you think that this is "dust in the eyes" - it is TOO EXPENSIVE.
So have no doubt - Poseidon is a real weapon. And its power is terrible.

We have built 3 and are building 2 more completely toothless corvettes 22160 and all for the sake of showing off, after this you are sure that we will not be able to smash the submarine in the name of the personal ambitions of the elderly leader. Well, well.

Regarding the construction of two divisions of Poseidon carriers, a more harmful idea needs to be looked for. Building 3rd generation submarines, which are covered like a bull by the enemy’s modern MAPLs, is something with something... But modern carriers like the Boreev Poseidon will not be taken out - there simply won’t be enough size.

In addition, do not forget that Poseidon is not a mine, it is a torpedo, i.e. in order to maintain positive buoyancy, it needs to either constantly move or have an internal volume for ballast tanks, however, given the size of the product, which is located in the hull 949 of the submarine in place of the Granit launcher, there is no space for tanks in the torpedo, because all of it will be occupied by the power plant on the reactor base, control and navigation systems, and the charge itself.

About "Burevestnik". Here something became clear about him. It turns out that the incoming air flow is not directly heated by fuel rods, but through a heat exchanger with a liquid-metal carrier. Radiation does not come out and does not leave a corresponding trace (radiation).

Well, thank the creator they thought of it, otherwise Europeans at one time were very frightened by the increased background radiation, which coincided with the tests of the Burevestnik and the tragedy in Severodvinsk.

In addition, these missiles are not subject to the New START framework agreements, which is important for strengthening defense capabilities. A conventional missile launcher is, of course, much simpler and cheaper, but this one has an unlimited range and you can reach any target even in Antarctica... and everywhere

And most importantly, it can be shot down even with a heavy machine gun, since the missile is subsonic...

You know, if I had now brought a batch of “Geraniums” to Mexico, then the majority of the American Air Force bases would have been completely defenseless and would have suffered much greater losses than what happened in Engels.

It’s not a fact, concrete hangars with earthen filling, which are overwhelmingly common in the United States, most likely would have fulfilled their function and the planes would have had absolutely nothing to do with it. Why they don’t build these here, exposing much more expensive aircraft to attack, is a mystery to me. Apparently saving money on matches again

What about Zircon?

Actually, I was talking about the Circus, I apologize - my accuracy is not correct

And the CR BD for 7500 km?

And that only we have such missiles, no one else in the world has such technologies? And yes, I remind you that the same Onyx would not have appeared if the Indians had not sponsored its development.

What about the Su-57, which did go into normal production?

Are there already hundreds and thousands of these aircraft in the sky and are they already ahead of the F-35 in numbers? Remind you of Hegel's second law of dialectics? Quantitative indicators turn into qualitative ones. Therefore, even if you have one super-duper plane, it will still be crushed by 6 ordinary medium fighters, simply because there are 6 of them, and he is one. Actually, approximately this axiom was confirmed by the USSR during the Great Patriotic War, where for each Tiger there were 5-6 T-34 tanks.

Regarding the plasma cocoon, and believe it or not, everyone saw the arrival of the first “Dagger” in the underground storage facility with “Tochka-U”. And that there was a plasma cocoon. And how the guidance system is organized there, no one will tell us for at least 30 years.

The Kinzhal is a ballistic missile designed to hit stationary objects, everything is more or less clear with the controls. Pre-set coordinates, inertial navigation and a gyroscope system. The missile is large, there is room for this. But how the much smaller Zircon, which is designed to hit moving objects, is controlled is much more interesting...

[bayard]

Quote: Dante

We have built 3 and are building 2 more completely toothless corvettes 22160 and all for the sake of showing off,

A total of 6 of them were ordered. and they were originally planned for service in the Red Sea and the Horn of Africa - forgiven Samolian pirates. In order not to knock out the resource of our few BOD pr. 1155. The project was unsuccessful, with poor seaworthiness, low speed, but with a hangar for a helicopter and a large helipad... A very niche ship, even if it worked out. It was imposed on the fleet and it did not need it. But since 2014, we have not been able to build anything at all, except for the Buyans and a little later - the Karakurts (for which the engines started working normally quite recently). The 22160 was not trampled only by the lazy, but still it is an inexpensive ship “only” 9 billion rubles. (Karakurt costs 8 billion without the Pantsir and about the same with it). But they won’t build any more of these monsters, just as the head of USC didn’t push through this “innovative” miracle.

Quote: Dante

Are you sure that we will not be able to destroy the nuclear submarine in the name of the personal ambitions of the elderly leader. Oh well.

I can only say from personal experience that I know for sure and have seen it myself. Do you know where GDP went the next day after being elected for the very first term in 2000? To Yuzhmash! I personally visited two factories and agreed on maintaining the technical condition of Voyevod and a number of other defense issues. He was unable to negotiate the supply of a certain number of Molodtsevs, who were based in the Novomoskovsk region - the Americans did not allow it, but immediately paid Kuchma a bribe of 5 billion dollars. to a very... strange program, which was not even remembered later. By that time, PMZ could no longer produce anything and was almost completely looted, so it could no longer produce any new missiles to replace the decommissioned Typhoons and Molodtsevs for the BZHRK. But he agreed to dispose of all the decommissioned Molodtsevs and Typhoons there.
I also know how the very delicate issue of Russia acquiring competencies and technologies was resolved, which then allowed Rosatom to become the most advanced company in the World, as well as for the production of liquid-fueled ICBMs and SLBMs. Everything was also decided around the same time (a little later, but not by much). Is this idleness in your opinion? There were people who did everything to restore the country’s defense capability. Some people died performing this task. But the problems were solved. Both in terms of money and degree of importance, such programs could only be financed “spotwise” - individual priority projects. And at the same time very, very secretive. Now we can talk about this. You can listen to Sanya Kazakov about this, he touched on this topic.

[Dante Alighieri]

they were planned for service in the Red Sea and in the Horn of Africa - forgiving the Samolian pirates. In order not to knock out the resource of our few BOD pr.1155

What should we do in the Horn of Africa when our rears are not covered? Again showing off, again maintaining a mythical image. The issue of piracy was easily resolved in a much cheaper way - with the help of armed guards on board tankers, after which the problem of attacks disappeared.

Very niche ship

A very, very complementary characteristic

But since 2014 we have not been able to build anything at all,

This means that there was no need to build anything at all, having invested money in modernizing production and increasing the wages of workers in order to increase the prestige of the shipbuilding profession.

I personally visited two factories and agreed on maintaining the technical condition of Voyevod and a number of other defense issues.

And with the other hand he scrapped Project 941 submarines, which were a headache for the entire US Navy. And in general, what does the Voivode have to do with it when we are talking about Project 949, which became the carrier for Poseidon, and its weapons are the P-700 Granit, which is not an ICBM?

I also know how the very delicate issue of Russia acquiring competencies and technologies was resolved, which then allowed Rosatom to become the most advanced company in the World, as well as for the production of liquid-fueled ICBMs and SLBMs.

Then the question is why the Western, now unfriendly states did this? Didn't they understand what this could lead to? Or did they really want money, of which they already have a bottomless abyss? Or were we, like the cosmos, led along a path predetermined and designed by someone?

There were people who did everything to restore the country’s defense capability.

There are always centrifugal and centripetal forces, the question is which one prevails at a given moment in time. It seems to me that the bias is clearly not in favor of state-conscious figures.

[bayard]

Quote: Dante

What should we do in the Horn of Africa when our rears are not covered? Again showing off, again maintaining a mythical image.

No. When such a decision was made, the Samoly pirates were committing atrocities - they were capturing merchant ships, often slaughtering the crews if they resisted or ransom was not paid for them. Then European countries and the Russian Federation sent ships to the Horn area to keep watch and protect shipping. We had to send Project 1155 large anti-submarine ships there and they were wasting their resources there, some even had to be written off later. And then USC got busy by offering a large patrol ship for these purposes - this very cuttlefish 22160. They told us about innovation and made the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy an offer that was hard to refuse - "You are placing an order with us for the 22160 series (6 units to start with) and for an even more terrible monster, Project 20386. And we will accept you for the honorary position of Deputy Head of USC immediately after your retirement, which is in a year." And the admiral could not resist. It looks like he wasn't going to resist. As a result, his successor barely fought off Project 20386 (which they lobbied for with rage) and refused to continue purchasing 22160. And it was very difficult for him. But with the start of the SVO, sound decisions were made - the entire USC management was dispersed, and the corporation itself was handed over to VTB. There, SUCH thefts were revealed... To the point of grotesqueness.

Quote: Dante

A very, very complementary characteristic

An ordinary patrolman. It was like a stop signal for the fleet, but at that time the Black Sea Fleet had almost no ships left, so they decided to do this. The Somali pirates are gone, and they are trying to use the ships as OVR corvettes.

Quote: Dante

sent project 941 submarines, which were a headache for the entire US Navy, to scrap.

There were no missiles for them then. The first series of "Typhoons" and "Molodtsev" had an assigned resource of only 10 years. It was not possible to reach an agreement with Yuzhmash. The first “Sharks” began to be disposed of even under Yeltsin, the Americans even allocated money for this. By the way, also for the disposal of missiles. And recycling was stopped under the new president. Of the six "Sharks" only 3 were disposed of, two were put into storage, and one was made experimental - for testing the "Bulava". I’ve already written the rest a hundred times - without their native missiles, the Sharks are useless. The “clubs” are too small for them and they would have to carry additional ballast with them. And modernizing the Akula costs the same as building a new Borey. Therefore, after thinking about it, we decided to build Borei-A. And the “Sharks” were simply waiting for their fate. Beautiful ships, but it is not practical to use them even as carriers of the Kyrgyz Republic - they are too huge, they were created for duty under the ice of the Arctic.

Quote: Dante

And what does the Voivodes have to do with it anyway?

During that trip, the issue of extending the service life and technical (design) support of the Voevoda missiles was resolved. "Voevoda" remained in service and to this day a number of them are on combat duty. This is to illustrate priorities - what was the main task after Operation Successor. After Yugoslavia, no one in power had any illusions.

Quote: Dante

We are talking about Project 949, which became the carrier for Poseidon, and its weapons are the P-700 Granit, which is not an ICBM?

You are losing the thread of my story. About ICBMs - this is about how on the very first day after the first inauguration the GDP ended up at Yuzhmash and solved several important problems at once.
And the PLA pr. 949 was very seriously redesigned for the Poseidons - the length was seriously increased. It carries 8 "Poseidons (and not only) most likely only 4 on each side, two two in length, otherwise the hull would not have been extended. But this is essentially an experimental ship for testing combat use. At least 4 "Boreas" will be produced in series - also seriously adapted to be equipped with six Poseidons each.

Quote: Dante

Then the question is why the Western, now unfriendly states did this? Didn't they understand what this could lead to? Or did they really want money, of which they already have a bottomless abyss?

There was very strong opposition to this. That technology did not concern uranium enrichment. But people died then. And not simple ones. Some are afraid to even remember that time and that topic. But the problem was solved.
You have no idea at what price the peaceful and serene life of an ordinary person is often given. As is obvious about what it means to play the long game.

[bayard]

Quote: Dante

Regarding the construction of two divisions of Poseidon carriers, a more harmful idea needs to be looked for. Building 3rd generation submarines, which are covered like a bull by the enemy’s modern MAPLs, is something with something... But modern carriers like the Boreev Poseidon will not be taken out - there simply won’t be enough size.

Actually, these four SSNs - carriers of the Poseidons - are built on the basis of the Boreys. Of Project 949, only one was rebuilt and yes, it will be larger. And it carries two more Poskydons.
"Borey" is a very quiet and inconspicuous SSN, so you won't find a better base for the carrier. In addition, unification with SSBNs, and maybe in the future with SSGNs.
These submarines are for a special purpose, so there is no need to talk about it. As well as the feasibility of their construction. Let me just say that they are the ones who are now most feared on the pirate island and behind the big puddle.

Quote: Dante

Also, don't forget that Poseidon is not a mine, it's a torpedo

Yes . There could be a lot of things there. The main thing is not checkers, if you need to GO. The task is to organize tidal waves of several hundred meters (up to a kilometer, but not less than 500 m), and whether they will be mines or torpedoes what's the difference . And the public was shown what they wanted to show.

Quote: Dante

There is no space for tanks in the torpedo, because all of it will be occupied by the reactor-based power plant, control and navigation systems, and the charge itself.

Actually, there is approximately the same reactor using liquid-metal coolant as the Burevestnik, so everything is fine with the dimensions. , and quite compact. Have you seen the "Petrel" in the photo? But “Poseidon” will still be bigger. So there will also be room for tanks.

Quote: Dante

increased background radiation, which coincided with the tests of the Burevestnik and the tragedy in Severodvinsk.

Various tragedies happened there. Various products were tested. There were also unsuccessful ones - that’s why they were tests. But almost the entire test cycle of the “Petrel” was completed, tests were carried out in the Arctic, and not a single dog got wind of them. So everything worked out fine there.

Quote: Dante

it can be shot down even with a heavy machine gun, but the missile is subsonic...

Firstly, it is made using inconspicuous technology, secondly, its thermal footprint is not much greater than that of a conventional missile launcher at the terminal section, and thirdly, its speed was initially called “about 1,5M”. Now imagine that it will fly not at WWI, but at an altitude of about 7 km. Over deserted spaces and the World Ocean. And it will decrease only when approaching the target. Or it attacks in an almost vertical dive.

Quote: Dante

It’s not a fact, concrete hangars with earthen filling, which are overwhelmingly common in the United States, most likely would have fulfilled their function and there would have been absolutely nothing for the planes.

Not all aircraft are kept in caponiers or even hangars. In addition, the hangars there are most often of the light type. And I would know exactly in advance where and how the planes are parked at these airfields. They are satellites and in space they are satellites.

Quote: Dante

. Why they don’t build these here, exposing much more expensive aircraft to attack, is a mystery to me. Apparently saving money on matches again

That's a good question . The USSR built such concrete shelters for aviation in the western districts and they still stand there to this day. There is also something on the territory of the Russian Federation. BUT . Those caponiers were built for such aircraft as the MiG-23, Su-24, Su-15... Which fit very well with folded wings. The MiG-29 is also included in them... But the Su-27\30\34\35 is no longer included. Building new ones is expensive. We built new planes very sluggishly... Maybe there are budget restrictions, maybe so as not to alert the enemy, or maybe out of stupidity/laziness/stupidity/venality.
And to build such shelters for the Tu-95 and Tu-160... can you imagine the size of such structures? And used ones had such shelters for YES.
But it was really possible to build at least light hangars with a double roof. At least they wouldn’t stick out in plain sight... But according to the New START Treaty, we are obliged to keep our YES... yes, yes - in open areas, so that it can be seen by satellites. Here's your answer. So they are standing openly, and they certainly wouldn’t have dodged me.

Quote: Dante

And the CR BD for 7500 km?

And that only we have such missiles, no one else in the world has such technologies?

No one in the world has anything close to our X-101 and X-102. So I can say absolutely firmly that no one in the world has anything like this in the KR class. And it is not expected.

[Dante Alighieri]

Actually, these four SSNs - carriers of the Poseidons - are built on the basis of the Boreys. Of Project 949, only one was rebuilt and yes, it will be larger. And it carries two more Poskydons.
"Borey" is a very quiet and inconspicuous SSN, so you won't find a better base for the carrier. In addition, unification with SSBNs, and maybe in the future with SSGNs.

Sorry, but these are fairy tales. Boreas will not be structurally able to carry Poseidon. No way.

The task is to organize tidal waves of several hundred meters (up to a kilometer, but not less than 500 m), and whether they will be mines or torpedoes, what’s the difference?

You can also adjust the Earth’s axis a little and then America will be completely washed away without any harm to the environment

In fact, it has approximately the same reactor using liquid-metal coolant as the Burevestnik, so everything is fine with the dimensions. , and quite compact

I'm sorry, but the secret lady won't come for you? Such details... If it is seriously not enough to cool the coolant, you need something else like a Stirling engine, which will provide mechanical movement based on the temperature difference, which will then be converted into electrical energy. There is still room for this in a torpedo, but in a rocket.... As one character said: “Doubtful, but okay...”

But almost the entire test cycle of the Petrel has been completed; tests were carried out in the Arctic, and not a single dog got wind of them.

So there were more than enough previous drains. I believe that those of the likely opponents who are entitled to this by position know everything perfectly well; we, as always, learn about the achievements or failures of domestic science from foreign publications

Now imagine that it will fly not at WWI, but at an altitude of about 7 km. Over deserted spaces and the World Ocean. And it will decrease only when approaching the target. Or attacks in a dive almost vertically

And the enemy does nothing at this time and does not undertake anything. Ahh, I completely forgot, at that moment the enemy was no longer there, he was destroyed by a retaliatory strike, but why then is such a missile needed? You all have completely confused me

Building new ones is expensive.

I tried to calculate the cost of a hangar for the size of the SU-35, it turned out to be a maximum of 10-15 million rubles, provided that ready-made factory concrete trusses were used. If it's expensive, then sorry.

No one in the world has anything close to our X-101 and X-102. So I can say absolutely firmly that no one in the world has anything like this in the KR class. And it is not expected.

Well, if memory serves, then the X-101/102 was a response to the American AGM-129, until they were written off. I wonder why, by the way

[bayard]

Quote: Dante

Sorry, but these are fairy tales. Boreas will not be structurally able to carry Poseidon. No way.

16 SLBMs are possible, but 6 Poseidons are not possible? I don’t see this being technically impossible.

Quote: Dante

You can also adjust the Earth’s axis a little and then America will be completely washed away without any harm to the environment

During the late USSR, we had bottom mines of such power - “the last argument of kings”, in case we missed a blow and lost the war. So the idea itself and the development of the process of forming a tidal wave front have been worked out a long time ago. And for this, a super torpedo is not at all necessary, but once they decided so, the risk of opening the preemptive deployment is removed. Or it will be as a safety option. Or to destroy the naval base. It’s creepy, of course, but our enemies are not preparing bouquets of roses for us either.

Quote: Dante

The secret lady won't come for you? Such details...

So this is all open. And no special details.

Quote: Dante

If cooling the coolant is seriously not enough, you need something else like a Stirling engine, which will provide mechanical movement based on the temperature difference

What are you about ?? There is a very compact reactor using isotopes and a liquid-metallic primary circuit. The secondary circuit steam turns the turbine as it should and the torpedo goes off. There is definitely a turbine there, you can see it in the leaked picture.
By the way, something similar, only with a dynamo on the turbine shaft of the space tug "Zeus". About which there was also a lot of laughter, but I would rather see it in high/medium orbit, powering a radar and a combat laser a la "Peresvet". In space, it (Peresvet) is much more useful. This is not a chemical laser with a limitation on the number of shots, it's a damn "Death Star" in orbit. Several such stations and the orbital missile defense echelon is ready. And as an option - a radar for detecting air and surface targets with target designation for anti-ship missiles. For all this, there is practically only one reactor. And apparently not so expensive that they decided to make even unlimited-range cruise missiles with it.

Quote: Dante

, but why then do we need such a rocket? You all have completely confused me

I didn’t make the decision, but apparently they considered it advisable to have one, because in the Southern Hemisphere, our ICBMs cannot reach all targets. Except "Sarmat". But sending bombers with conventional cruise missiles to such a range is risky - there are few of them. How can you get to New Zealand, for example? But it is there that the Enemy's elite have bunkers for survival. Or in Australia? Or in Antarctica? Or in South America, where Bill Gates bought up huge areas of agricultural land and some people there are also going to survive. And the Burevestnik will fly everywhere. And yes, his turn of blows will come after the main exchange of pleasantries. And the route of such missile launchers can be laid through the most desolate lands and the heart of the oceans. It is not limited in terms of fuel. So I think it is specifically for the Southern Hemisphere and for this type of purpose. For the USA and Europe, we have plenty of other options.

Quote: Dante

I tried to calculate the cost of a hangar for the size of the SU-35, it turned out to be a maximum of 10-15 million rubles, provided that ready-made factory concrete trusses were used. If it's expensive, then sorry.

Questions for Shoigu. I don’t know why we didn’t even build light hangars for aircraft. Maybe the realization has come. In addition, our military budget before the Northern Military District was very modest, they even saved on the number of Ground Forces. And this despite such a long border and a difficult international situation. Now there is much more money in the country, just the abolition of the “Budget Rule” brought in so much additional money to the Budget.

Quote: Dante

if memory serves, then the X-101/102 were a response to the American AGM-129

No . The answer was the Soviet Kh-55 with a range of 3400 km.
Kh-101 and Kh-102 were created for the Tu-160 and Kh-102 has a range of 5500 km. this is twice as much as the American Kyrgyz Republic (2700 km).

Quote: Dante

written off. I wonder why, by the way

These are nuclear missiles; a conventional warhead cannot be installed on them.

[bayard]

Quote: Dante

Su-57, which did go into normal production?

Are there already hundreds and thousands of these aircraft in the sky and are they already ahead of the F-35 in numbers? Remind you of Hegel's second law of dialectics?

The regimental Su-57 kit is already in service. This year, an almost complete two-squadron regimental set is due to be delivered. The series has already started. And operating from the zone of their own invisibility, even in such numbers they can paralyze the work of enemy aviation on all fronts with used ones.
But we really need to double, or better yet triple, the number of combat aircraft. And we need at least 57 - 240 Su-300s. For their construction, a new workshop was built capable of assembling at least 30 aircraft per year. Without prejudice to the construction of the Su-35S\SM, which will also be continued in series and of which we also need at least 300 units. Su-35SM - with BRLK "Belka" and avionics from Su-57.

Quote: Dante

Dagger is a ballistic missile designed to destroy stationary objects

No . This is a quasi-ballistic missile. Those. it does not follow a ballistic trajectory, which is easy to calculate, but travels at a flight level of 50 km. parallel to the ground. And at the same time he maneuvers. It dives at the target. This applies to both Kinzhal and Iskander.

Quote: Dante

The rocket is big, there is room for that. But how the much smaller Zircon, which is designed to hit moving objects, is controlled - this is much more interesting...

"Zircon" is much more interesting. , but its starting weight (approximately 4,6 tons) is even greater than the starting weight of both the Iskander and the Kinzhal. And its diameter is approximately 640 - 650 mm.
And how the targeting is carried out, I, as a specialist in radar by basic military education, have a rough idea. Not even in the passage of the signal through the plasma. But I will not develop this topic. The fact is that the "Zircon" already exists, is in service and can be used not only from ships, but also from aircraft carriers (soon will be, if not already), but also as part of the BRK (the same "Bastion") and as part of the Iskander brigades on the TPU from the "Bastion". But in a conventional implementation, it is impractical to use them. A good and expensive missile must also have a good nuclear warhead - for guaranteed destruction of targets.
If the "Dagger" hits targets with an accuracy of several meters, then there can be no doubt that the "Zircon" will be able to hit targets with the same accuracy.
Everything is simple.
But fighting is difficult.

[klev72]

An obvious example of the choice of wording is the Turkish operation. There is no smell of UN forces there and we have no use for them.

[nickname7]

Talking about a buffer zone is an attempt to avoid solving the problem at its root

For 8 years the Kremlin tried to put up with Bandera’s supporters by pushing through the Minsk agreements, this did not teach it anything, then when they started the North Military District they wanted to conclude a new Khasavyurt, terrible.
Strelkov should have been elected president, then it would have made sense.

[Ross xnumx]

The main objectives of the current Special Operation in Ukraine are the demilitarization of the Kyiv regime and getting rid of the military threat from it.

The main tasks are the demilitarization of all of Ukraine and the denazification of the population - burning out the Nazi worldview from those especially close to Bandera.
And the Kiev regime can be demilitarized with several Zircon or Iskander missiles. You just need to cut off the rotten head...

Reportedly, the Russian leadership is only studying this issue, but does not exclude the possibility positive decision and subsequent organization of the “sanitary zone”. Moreover, even now, before decisions are made, it is clear that our army will be able to cope with such tasks and cover a strategically important area.

Yeah... The UN will call the orderlies... Just now they gave a layout for the length of the LBS of 1 km. What is the depth of this sanitary zone in your opinion? 200, 100 km? Who will monitor the progress of forces in this sanitary zone? How long will it be after this to wait for longer-range missiles (UAVs) to appear in Ukraine?
Russia has neither the strength nor the means to maintain and control this sanitary zone.
The only possible solution to the problem is the complete destruction of the infrastructure in Ukraine - depriving its territory of all the benefits of civilization, so that living becomes difficult: lack of electricity, water supply. sewerage and the transport component (destruction of everything that moves on wheels and flies)...
There is another option, but no one will use it.
Another bullshit directive, a fix idea, scaring a hedgehog with his bare ass...

[Uncle lee]

for the most advanced ones, the declared flight range is up to 800-1000 km

Here, like it or not, we need complete demilitarization of Ukraine.

[Dutchman Michel]

Quote: ROSS 42

And the Kyiv regime can be demilitarized with several missiles

This is not called demilitarization, but disposal or disposal

[Lech from Android.]

The author did not consider the option of deploying French troops in Odessa and British troops around Kyiv...as well as sending Polish troops into the Lviv region.
How will events happen in this case?
.

[Olegi1]

The author did not consider the option of deploying French troops in Odessa and British troops around Kyiv...as well as sending Polish troops into the Lviv region.
How will events happen in this case?

I believe in this case events will happen as follows:
1. In Odessa and Kyiv regions Russian Federation French and British cemeteries will appear respectively;
2. Let the Poles deal with the Westerners in the Lviv region themselves.

[Belisarius]

The third year of the SVO is underway, we are evacuating the population of the Belgorod region and people are still asking, what about the Kursk and Bryansk regions? In these conditions, talking about the "obvious defeat" of the enemy (who for some reason knows nothing about his defeat and demands our capitulation) is simply indecent.
The idea of ​​a “sanitary zone” in itself is not so bad and requires further consideration. But there are 3 questions here.
1) How and by what forces? If now the enemy is near Donetsk and the front has practically not moved for a year and a half?
2) What is the legal status of this zone? If we finally stop recognizing Zelensky’s government, then we are fighting against the regime, that is, we do not need a sanitary zone, but Kyiv. If we admit it (as we do now), then from the point of view of law the creation of such a zone is interpreted as the occupation of the territory of another country with all the ensuing consequences. We need to somehow decide what we are doing and why we need it.
3) What will happen outside such a zone? After all, we are essentially simply pushing back the threat, which, given the range of modern weapons, does not look like a solution to the problem. And then it turns out that this zone will need to be controlled somehow. That is, our units will be stationed not near Belgorod but near Sumy. And they will be hit in exactly the same way with all types of weapons.

[Revolver]

[Label1]What to do with the population of this zone? Drive them out? No way, it's ethnic cleansing, i.e. a pure war crime and a crime against humanity. Leave 404 citizens? Who will feed them, water them, treat them, pay them benefits and pensions? After all, 404 will refuse them, you occupied them, and you support them. Annex them to Russia? The people will agree, but the Banderites will immediately start to terrorize them within the entire radius of everything they have. Russian citizens, mind you, to whom the Russian authorities and the Guarantor personally have certain obligations. Refusal to fulfill these obligations will look somehow wrong. So, to protect them, a new zone will have to be won. [GoTo Label1]
So it turns out that the zone will have to be made up to the Polish (and also Romanian, Hungarian, and whatever else there are) border. Something like that.

[Belisarius]

Quote: Nagan

So it turns out that the zone will have to be made up to the Polish (as well as Romanian, Hungarian, and whatever else there are) borders. Something like this.

It’s true, if we take this idea with the zone to its logical conclusion, then it will smoothly move towards the Polish border. But you understand that during the third year of war in the suburbs of Donetsk, this is impossible.
The only way out is to finally stop recognizing Zelensky’s government and change the political power there. This was easy to do in 2014, but not easy, but possible in 2022. Now it is very difficult, but still possible.
The alternative is to accept a strategic defeat and just stupidly wait for Father Trump to force the enemy to talk to us, or simply hope that the enemy will tire first and agree to a truce. Which is actually what is being done now.

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote: Belisarius

talking about the “obvious defeat” of the enemy (who for some reason knows nothing about his defeat and demands our surrender) is simply indecent.

It’s indecent for us to talk about the enemy’s obvious defeat, but is it decent for them to demand our surrender? Some of your ideas about decency are too Ukrainian.

[Netl]

Quote: Belisarius

there are 3 questions here

1) The creation of such a zone is possible only in the following cases:
a) A sharp reduction in military assistance to the Nazis in Kyiv;
b) A sharp increase in the quality of conducting combined arms operations of the RF Armed Forces.
Or a combination of the above.

2) At a minimum - a ceasefire agreement, which can develop into a peace treaty. Or maybe not. And such situational agreements can even be concluded with obvious terrorists.

3) The point of DZ is not to completely eliminate the possibility of strikes. But to make them as difficult as possible, less massive and less expensive. Now, for example, the Nazis easily kill residents of the Russian border with regular mortars and FPV. We spend expensive anti-aircraft missiles to shoot down MLRS shells, which are fired in whole packages. With DZ, this will be more difficult and more expensive.

[Belisarius]

Quote: Netl

1) The creation of such a zone is possible only in the following cases:
a) A sharp reduction in military assistance to the Nazis in Kyiv;
b) A sharp increase in the quality of conducting combined arms operations of the RF Armed Forces.
Or a combination of the above.

Yes, it is true. Plus more people and weapons. There are people, but there are no weapons for them anymore.

Quote: Netl

At the very least - a ceasefire agreement, which can develop into a peace treaty. Or maybe not. And such situational agreements can even be concluded with obvious terrorists.

It still needs to be concluded. Now the Russian authorities recognize Zelensky and are ready for negotiations. But the enemy is not even going to talk to them about any frosts. The question of a peace treaty on terms other than returning to the pre-2014 border is not at all.
In order to conclude a ceasefire agreement, military victories are needed. And then this does not solve the problem, if we continue to recognize the Zelensky government, then the DZ, even after the conclusion of a ceasefire agreement, from the point of view of all other countries is just another occupied territory.
Initially, the course towards recognition of the Zelensky government was wrong, and it needs to be corrected.

Quote: Netl

The point of remote sensing is not to completely eliminate the possibility of impacts. The point is to make them as complicated as possible.

It's logical here. Agree. In this context it makes sense.

[Netl]

Quote: Belisarius

Plus more people and weapons. There are people, but there are no weapons for them anymore.

IMHO, the problem with people is more significant. The entire Telegram is full of motivated requests for rotation of those mobilized in the fall of 2022. And it is difficult to fulfill them without a new global mobilization. Which is unpopular and can reduce the motivation and quality of fighters.
But the main reserves for improving the quality of combined arms combat lie in the area of ​​improving command and automated control and communication systems.

Quote: Belisarius

Military victories are needed to conclude a ceasefire

Or pressure from allies. Everything you write is correct, without fulfilling the conditions of point 1, talk about point 2. doesn't make sense at all.

Quote: Belisarius

even after the ceasefire agreement, from the point of view of all other countries it is just another occupied territory.
The course towards recognition of the Zelensky government was initially wrong

It's not obvious here. The problem was created by Yanukovych, who, instead of gathering a militia somewhere in Donetsk, got cold feet and fled from Ukraine. And then our people always tried to come to an agreement. Even in Istanbul in the spring of 2022. IMHO - wrong.

And let me remind you that Western countries stated that they initially did not intend to implement the Minsk agreements (concluded, by the way, according to all the rules and with their participation). So, in principle, it doesn’t matter what they say about the “occupation”; only real interests and the balance of power play a role.

And in terms of the hypocrisy of Western partners, it is difficult to surpass, for example, formally, according to their position, all of China was “occupied territory” except Taiwan, and now they treat Taiwan as a state, without official recognition, for fear of upsetting China.

[Tim]

The authorities of Grayvoron in the Belgorod region called on residents to evacuate their homes
The Yaroslavl region is ready to accept those wishing to leave temporarily.


Source: RIA Novosti
The authorities of Grayvoron called on residents to “make the right decision and temporarily leave the territory of the urban district.” This was stated by the head of the administration Gennady Bondarev. According to him, the Yaroslavl region is ready to accept people from Grayvoron who want to leave.

He noted that the authorities are trying to deliver food to residents, “but this depends on the operational situation.”

“I strongly recommend not to expose yourself and your loved ones to danger,” Bondarev addressed the population.

According to the latest data from the Russian Ministry of Defense, the West group of troops hit the temporary deployment points of Ukrainian DRGs in the border region of the Belgorod region.

[alexoff]

Quote: Belisarius

1) How and by what forces? If now the enemy is near Donetsk and the front has practically not moved for a year and a half?

There is an opinion that there is strength, but there is no intelligence. More precisely, there is intelligence, but there is no courage, so they turn on the hose mode. The Russian command has never carried out anything that could be called an operation since the days of Gostomel. Simply - brigades, fight there! There was nothing cunning or planned at all. Therefore, it is possible that if someone turns on their brains at the headquarters level, then something might work out.

[alexandre II]

Who is pushing all this nonsense? First negotiations, now the buffer zone

[Eug]

Those who really want to become part of the Western establishment.

[Sergey Averchenkov]

I think that Ukraine should be completely destroyed and all this talk about a buffer zone will not lead to anything good - if we leave Ukraine even a patch of land the size of a neighbor's garden, US missiles will immediately appear there, not to mention that it is critically important for us to deprive Ukraine of access to the sea and we need a corridor to Transnistria. Of course, I do not know all the Kremlin's plans and it is quite possible that there are some objective reasons for freezing the conflict, but I would not want it... this will only be a postponement of the war to a later date - our children and grandchildren will be fighting. I do not think that anyone wishes such a fate for their grandchildren, so we need to finish what we started.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: Sergey Averchenkov

this will just be a postponement of the war to a later date

in the history of mankind, there have been thousands of wars - we are not special and not the first in this sense and not the last... although I am sure that in every war, many said exactly like you... and the vast majority of wars - did not end in complete surrender, but There were almost always losses of territory... so why are you so sure that we will have a war later? you see, it will be there if the world’s money bags need it and it will even be with Ukraine as part of the Russian Federation, if they need it, there is also Kazakhstan, for example, the Baltic states, Poland, and the same Ukrainian collaborators.. therefore, I do not share the unequivocal statement that all of Ukraine needs to be taken away , moreover, I think that this would be a huge mistake... we don’t have the opportunity to “digest” it all, let’s be realistic... just realists... a destroyed country with a hostile population (and also with support from abroad) is not the best acquisition for a country that would finally get out of the crisis... and don’t you worry about missiles in the Baltic states and Scandinavia? or are they not that powerful? so they can even fly closer.. to summarize. from any side - “not a fountain” ... in general - I wouldn’t mind again if the country becomes 1/6 of the landmass, but you need to correlate desires with opportunities for today ...

[Sergey Averchenkov]

I would even say that war is a normal state of humanity... But let this war be somewhere far away, and we will express sympathy and concerns. History is cyclical, and Ukraine regularly, with some frequency, spoils us since the troubled times. That is why I am sure that after a while they (the Ukrainians) will again come up with some kind of abomination. You can name a thousand more reasons, but this is long, so we’ll stop there. What does that mean? Complete destruction, which necessarily includes the destruction of Ukrainian national identity. And you may be right about “digesting”... But on the other hand, what choice do we have? To have at your side millions of hostile crazy people screaming “Moskolyak to Gilyak” or try, as you said, to “digest”, even with the help of repression... brutal repression... Missiles worry me even in the USA, but we need to eliminate threats according to the degree of danger, remoteness from our borders.

[Dante Alighieri]

this will just be a postponement of the war to a later date - our children and grandchildren will fight

They will, they definitely will. And to replace them, the followers of the GDP will bring even more blacks, so that your granddaughters will not be lonely without their men, forever remaining in foreign lands.

[Sergey Averchenkov]

Don’t you have any granddaughters? Otherwise you talk about it so calmly... Are you not capable or are you still young? Or maybe your hatred of GDP has reached such a level that you are ready to put your granddaughters under the blacks? Just kidding... You will all have black grandchildren and granddaughters... and black great-grandchildren.

[Dante Alighieri]

Or maybe your hatred of GDP has reached such a level that you are ready to put your granddaughters under blacks?

My only hatred stems from those who do not want to live with their own minds, do not try to think and do not draw conclusions from the mistakes they have made. I don’t just hate these people, I despise them, because it is precisely these people who doom future generations to live under the yoke of those sitting at the top and to please them. If you don’t want a different fate for your descendants, then you don’t deserve anything else.

[Sergey Averchenkov]

Excuse me, but why do you think that your opinion is the one and only? Why do you think that you are the one who thinks and draws the right conclusions? Or maybe vice versa? Don’t you seriously think that by changing those “sitting at the top” you will change something? It's funny... you turn out to be the standard that everyone else should be equal to.

Your right, hate, despise... But do not forget that others also have the right to despise and hate you.

[Oleg Apushkin]

A difficult choice, our government officially recognizes a drug clown as president. What must happen in the Kremlin's own heads to understand that the outskirts must be completely cleansed of rot and this misunderstanding closed. The corridors must end in a wall.

[blackGRAIL]

In the Kremlin's minds it is quite clear that the forces we have are not enough for this and the war at the current pace will last not 5 or even 10 years. And the West's expenses for supporting Krajina are by no means critical and can only be curtailed by a political decision (Trump's deal), and not by some mythical fatigue.

[Medvedev_Dmitry]

In all this info-noise it is difficult to determine the further development of events... Too many different kinds of behind-the-scenes games. The SVO is stalling. Tarasiks are snapping. The final and unconditional victory is in the foggy future... An exit to the Dnieper and the administrative border of the LPR and a shaky truce with the opportunity for everyone to save face? And the electorate will be told that this is a cunning plan... A difficult situation. And, as I think, there is no military solution to this conflict.

[Boris Sergeev]

Where did "SVO" begin? From Putin’s statement that there is no negotiated solution, since the “partners” do not want to recognize the interests of the Russian Federation. In response, they were given the “last argument of the kings,” but it also turned out to be unconvincing. As a matter of fact, it was made unconvincing by the military-political leadership of Russia, which began negotiations with the enemy on the third day of the Northern Military District, and then showed “gestures of goodwill” in Istanbul, Abramovich and deputy. Minister of Defense with shaking hands. The message was obvious: we are not going to fight seriously. The experience of the last two years only confirms this observation, if the routes for delivering Western weapons to Ukraine have not yet been blocked. Given the unconvincing military achievements of Russia, does it have prospects for “negotiated solutions” that are not associated with humiliating concessions, which will then be explained by the fact that “we were deceived”?

[klev72]

You have not noticed the main thing, namely, our leader's adherence to the laws. SVO did not begin with the non-recognition of our interests, but with our legal recognition of the DPR and LPR, the conclusion of agreements with them and, as a result of the escalation of shelling, the legal beginning of our SVO. Now it is the same, grounds for advancement are needed, so the ground is being prepared, with the help of the media the justification for the actions is explained and that's all. Feel free to draw the borders of our security zone along the Dnieper. In the future, you will see the justification for our presence near Lviv, 100%. The Banderites and puppeteers will provide them to us themselves, don't even doubt it.

[Boris Sergeev]

“Our leader’s adherence to the laws” once again showed itself during shelling of the Belgorod region, when the invasion of the territory of the Russian Federation by the armed forces of a foreign state did not lead to a declaration of war, as provided for in the Defense Law.

[klev72]

You only wanted to deliver blows in the liberation struggle, but in response from the terrorists who took entire Russian regions hostage, thank you to hear!? What kind of naivety? This is their strategy to destroy the civilian Russian population. And you can send your questions directly to the ukrofashists. Our soldiers are doing their best. And, yes, our country is waking up, feeling the aggression of the Nazis, just like Donetsk and Lugansk did 10 years ago. You delve into the legal issue and understand that the format is the best option for us. It’s not for nothing that the enemy doesn’t declare war on us either, but why is that so? This is your homework, immerse yourself in studying this issue, what consequences will there be, and do we need it?

[Boris Sergeev]

Open the Law on Defense and read what it says, and don’t engage in demagoguery here. The “SVO format” was generally taken out of thin air. The strikes are not being carried out: neither on the notorious “decision-making centers”, nor on the Kyiv neighborhoods, nor on the routes for delivering Western weapons to Ukraine. It seems that all this is part of the behind-the-scenes agreements secured by the “friend of all mercenaries” Abramovich. The declaration of war will raise the question of how Gazprom increases gas pumping through the enemy’s territory and pays him a red price.

[klev72]

Reparations know the word, ask around. Understand also that thinking narrowly is futile and naive, I repeat. There is a struggle with the collective West and time is now playing for us. We now have a front of 1,2 km, do you want it to increase? The authorities give time to deal with one beast without serious losses, to bleed the scumbags, and at the same time the puppeteers’ weapons depots are being emptied. No one has declared war for 70 years, but you are the most thoughtful. Congratulations, I’m not going to break through your wall of arguments.

[Boris Sergeev]

Have you been sleeping for the last two years? The authorities are precisely creating the conditions for all of NATO to move to Ukraine, wasting the “effect of surprise” on which the first military successes rested. The front has not moved for a year and a half, except for the “regrouping” in the Kharkov region and the shameful surrender of Kherson - whose is it, by the way? As a result, NATO has not only replaced the aging Soviet weapons of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but is already forming military units to be sent to Ukraine. Apparently, they thought that the Russian Army was already sufficiently drained of blood.

[klev72]

So what, sooner or later they will catch up, are you blind or what!? So what is the contradiction, let them go, but the front will not change, 1,2 km. They come in parts, and return in parts in coffins, didn’t you know? About the effect of surprise, a lot of copies have already been broken. Our intelligence and partners were hanging noodles at the sight of the locals, and the Nazis were getting ready. They entered, negotiated, withdrew, received and made conclusions about raising rates, responded and began to prepare defense. VVP already answered that there were no plans to take over the country. Now there is no choice, I WILL show you a promising map with our proposal, are there any questions and groans left?

[Deon59]

And our number of coffins is 10 times less. This year, the losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are 71000, 1 in 3 ours are more than 20 thousand, 1 in 10 is 7100.

[klev72]

And what? Do you think the time has come for you to measure your pussies? Let’s finish off the last of the Nazi bullshit and remember those who died in the fight against it, as we always did.

[Tim]

[/quote]Tima
(pincher)
+4
Yesterday, 14: 23
New
Question for the Minister of Defense, General of the Army Sergei Shoigu, losses of the Russian army over the same period of time?[quote]

Yesterday I asked a question in my comment)) I was declared a traitor)) a lot of minuses and insults))

[Boris Sergeev]

If the “SVO” was truly an “operation” and not an adventure, which you yourself admit above, then NATO would not have had the opportunity to enter Ukraine. And don’t you think that if “intelligence is making noodles” and the press secretary is “driving a blizzard,” then the problem is not with the executors, but with those who appointed them? You can hang DAM’s sketches of the borders of Ukraine on your wall, next to his painting “Judgment Day after Ukraine’s strikes on Crimea.”

[klev72]

Playing with words is not my thing. You can call yours whatever you want, it’s a sore spot for you, apparently. Regarding the reason for NATO, you can safely move the time frame to the Crimean spring and TD first. The liberals caved in with tolerance to the wishes of their partners from Nata, and only the coffins with Boo sobered some of them up. Stalin also started the Second World War without sparkle, the winners are not judged and the final is not yet. The lady may look like a buffoon to you, but remember Volfovich. In addition, you and I cannot fight an information war with our partners. I’ll give you my place, one 080808 he started puts his “pictures” on another level that you don’t understand. And understand that there is no point in scaring Nastya, you need to beat, beat and beat. On our own land, as always, the Westerners are crushed once every hundred years. No one knows where the conflict curve will lead next.

[Boris Sergeev]

What does this “play on words” have to do with it? Klintsevich stated that Ukrainian oligarchs were financed by the Russian government, they promised, and then deceived. That is, the one who allocated billions of budgetary funds to them, stuck his nose out to them so that they would lead him, made orders to the troops based on these stories, does not bear any responsibility? And there is no need to inflate the DAM fly to the size of a bull: the “Medvedev-Sarkozy agreement”, which stopped Russian troops 40 km from defenseless Tbilisi, is also a DAM.

[klev72]

And what do you think are the contradictions again? Those who flew to Turkey for negotiations were liberals, not Zyuganov and TP. Power is a motley concept at a given moment in time, liberals also have the opportunity to do as much mischief as they can, democracy, sir. Do you want a dictatorship? Or should VVP wear the uniform of a generalissimo? Everything is going well. The election results are proof of this, and treat your pain yourself, I don’t like a lot of things either. And believe me, for example, my proposals are more radical than LADIES, but I also cope with this itch)) on my own. Everything has its time.

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote: Boris Sergeev

Klintsevich stated that Ukrainian oligarchs were financed by the Russian government

You are openly distorting. Klintsevich stated that Ukrainian oligarchs received money from the Russian Federation (=from trade with the Russian Federation), but not from the “Russian authorities.”

Quote: Boris Sergeev

They promised, and then they deceived. That is, the one who allocated them budget billions

What are the “budget billions”? Who are you talking about this nonsense to?

[Boris Sergeev]

“When we started, the political leadership of the country was misled on some issues. Especially in relation to the civilian population. We were not prepared for the fact that everything was prepared for the invasion - the defense, the trenches were prepared. And the population itself, which was against us.

We thought this was not the case. They were misled by people who received money from us, people representing the Ukrainian elite – the so-called pro-Russian one...,” Klintsevich said.

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote: Boris Sergeev

who received money from us

And what tells you that these were "budget billions"? They earned money in the Russian Federation because people bought goods and services from them. It is not said who bought them. Maybe, these were Russian oligarchs. And for you it already looks as if Putin financed them from the budget for being "pro-Russian".

[Boris Sergeev]

Was it his own money that Klintsevich had in mind? There were budgetary ones, even if in the form of “contracts for our own”. This is impossible without Putin’s sanction. Besides, why did he suddenly need to exchange his unlucky godfather for the “Azovites”? Or did Putin not know about this exchange, he was again led by the nose?

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote: Boris Sergeev

They were misled by those who received money from us

Focus! Right before your eyes, the pronoun “us” is turning...(drum roll) into budget money!!!
They started him up, started him up, but didn't get him out. He represented the Russian Federation in the media, not the state budget. Those Ukrainian businessmen who had businesses in Russia were under the SBU's surveillance at least since 14. Can you confirm that any of them had government contracts in the Russian Federation? If someone was a subcontractor (I didn't find this), then this case needs to be looked into separately: what conditions were offered, were there better offers from our companies, etc. But to make such a sharp extension of the processes to the Russian budget (they were paid from the budget for lying and misinforming) - this means tearing the owl to shreds. You should be more careful with this.

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote: Boris Sergeev

“Medvedev-Sarkozy agreement”, which stopped Russian troops 40 km from defenseless Tbilisi

Who told you about the “agreement with Sarkozy” that stopped our troops 40 km from Tbilisi? Did you compose it yourself? Medvedev said: "I decided to complete the operation to force the Georgian authorities to peace. The goal has been achieved." Ivanov: “Why? There was no political meaning in this. Military too." And he added that from a military point of view, the Russian army was faced with the task of “dealing such a blow to the armed forces of Georgia that in the foreseeable future they would not be able to repeat such an adventure.” The goal was achieved. Ossetians and Abkhazians live peacefully, even though Georgia lost them. Why the hell would you give in to the massacre in Tbilisi?

[Boris Sergeev]

"I have made a decision. The goal has been achieved." What goal? Which Ivanov? Are you not aware that Georgian formations slaughtered our paratroopers near Bucha? That's all your "achievement of goals" is.

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote: Boris Sergeev

What is the purpose?

Again

deliver such a blow to the armed forces of Georgia that in the foreseeable future they will not be able to repeat such an adventure

Georgian mercenaries in/on are not like that. If you don’t master it the second time, don’t write anymore, I won’t answer.

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote: klev72

I WILL show you a promising map with our proposal, do you have any questions and lamentations?

Their lamentations can still be heard. Ahead are Odessa, Nikolaev and Kyiv, and this is no longer groaning, but gnashing of teeth.

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote: Boris Sergeev

The authorities are precisely creating the conditions for all of NATO to move to Ukraine, wasting the “effect of surprise” on which the first military successes rested.

Six months before the Northern Military District (if not more), there were already so many squeals about the accumulation of units of the Russian Armed Forces near the border with Ukraine that the “effect of surprise” was only for the most inhibited. I believe that the Ukrainian Armed Forces have long had their own plans, translated from English, such as “Kyiv is surrounded by Russians in a few days, the Ukrainian Armed Forces cuts off supplies, encircles,” etc. options for action.

Quote: Boris Sergeev

As a result, NATO not only replaced the aging Soviet weapons of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but is already forming military units to be sent to Ukraine

But the Russian Federation didn’t replace it at all? The fact that NATO was rowing there backwards and forwards was clear even before 2014. The Russian Federation has been preparing for this for 8 years, including eliminating the military threat from the south. Now they are crowing like Gallic cockerels, dumping German generals, but they don’t really want to fight with Russia.

[AdAstra]

What are you saying, as I have written more than once - “Laws in the Russian Federation? No, we don’t know.”

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote: Boris Sergeev

Open the Law on Defense and read what it says, and don’t engage in demagoguery here.

Have you read it yourself? Where did you find it duty declaration of war by the state, which could be glued to the situation in Ukraine? Rather, the law is mentioned here only as a reason to promote your lies about “negotiations.”

[Boris Sergeev]

Only you found the responsibility there. The Law says, Art. 18 "A state of war is declared by federal law in the event of an armed attack on the Russian Federation by another state or group of states."

It must be understood that there will be no federal law declaring a state of war, although there is an armed attack on the territory of the Russian Federation. Doesn't this prove that “agreements” are more important than laws for our leadership?

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote: Boris Sergeev

Only you found the responsibility there. ... It must be understood that there will be no federal law declaring a state of war, although there is an armed attack on the territory of the Russian Federation.

Don't rush, otherwise you'll make it in time. The law presupposes, but does not oblige, the declaration of a state of war. Even Kyiv can do without it. What do you need it for? The war, I believe, will be with a united West and NATO’s direct participation in it.

[Boris Sergeev]

But you seem to be in no hurry. Are you waiting for 1000-km missiles to be delivered to Ukraine? “The law does not oblige you to declare...” That’s all they read in order to dive under this loophole. Only the court can oblige the unscrupulous. By the way, there is such an ICC.

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Why do you need a declaration of war? This is the second time I ask.

[Boris Sergeev]

At least so that those defending the border areas receive the status of participants in hostilities. Now they are nothing at all.

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

This can be done by decree. There is no need to declare war.

[Deon59]

Shebekino began evacuation last year, shelling and entry into our territory began more than a year ago. And during this time the government has achieved only one thing, against the backdrop of all this, elections were held, where the slogan is one if not Putin, then who. And Putin again has some kind of plan. And people are dying.

[klev72]

You are a wizard? Wave, don’t be lazy with your wand, destroy the adversaries. While I will join your sadness, I feel sorry for ours. Yes, endure another 5-7 years, prepare mentally for the sacrifices, brace yourself.

[Deon59]

Sorry, but our wizard has been broadcasting and making promises for over 20 years. And what if you or someone close to you becomes a victim?

[klev72]

Wow, it showed up! My son is learning to defend the country, that's normal. The second one is still a schoolboy, but he knows about his own, the country is waking up to exterminate the Nazis. He himself is old, but he is thinking about his own. And the worst thing for you like him, his own is guaranteed not to end for another 6 years.

[Deon59]

What's worse for me? The cruelty of our leadership. A friend's son, a young officer, died in the SVO in April 2022. A former colleague's son, an officer, got caught up in the mess at the beginning of the SVO, he didn't remember anything about patriotism. Well, I myself am a former military man and I know what war is. According to VTsIOM, volunteers for the SVO are 4 percent of the mobilization resource.

[klev72]

And then what is all this whining about 20-year promises!? Dig up history, they used to fight for centuries and not squeak, but were proud of their successes, once again. About promises, please clarify where you were personally offended? Your suggestions, I’m not offering a handkerchief, are you?

[Deon59]

I don't whine, I tell it like it is. And I'll see how you'll start whining if someone close to you dies. You're one of those who won't stop at anything, but you don't want to get caught in the price.

[klev72]

You won't see it, don't doubt it. Since 20 years old, in the question to the authorities, they have quietly switched to lbs. So you have questions for the military or for the authorities, decide. Do you need a meat assault or negotiations? That's why there is whining, there are no proposals, we jump around on topics.

[Deon59]

Give examples about meat assaults

[klev72]

It is a question or a statement? Again, be specific.

[klev72]

I have 7 relatives in Kherson, I don’t know their fate, if you are drawn to the pitiful topic. Beat, beat and beat the fucking Nazi scum until complete extermination.

[Deon59]

So hit me, what's the matter? Those who wished to leave Kherson left

[klev72]

We will hit, no doubt about it!

[Vladimir-TTT]

Quote: klev72

We will hit, no doubt about it!

When? When will you strike? The North Military District is in its third year, and you are only shouting slogans...

[klev72]

We'll win tomorrow morning, yeah. Once again, 5-7 years are ahead of you, relax! I told Comrade Xi about 5 years of GDP, they found out the money from the Japanese.

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote from Deon59

According to VTsIOM, volunteers in the Northern Military District make up 4 percent of the mobilization resource.

In September 2023, there were already 300 thousand volunteers in the Northern Military District zone, according to Putin’s statement dated September 3.09.23, 4. If this is 7%, as you claim, then in total there should have been 500 million XNUMX thousand in the Northern Military District at that time. That’s a lot of our military personnel. Can you provide a link to VTsIOM data on the number/percentage of volunteers in the SVO? I couldn’t find it myself, and I forgot how to believe such statements at VO by “former military men,” as well as messages from “officers’ daughters,” etc.

[Deon59]

Russia's mobilization resource is almost 25 million people, said Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.
Well, you can only believe the propaganda of the state, the rest are all lies and enemies.

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote from Deon59

You can only believe the propaganda of the state, the rest are all lies and enemies

What are you saying, how can you trust the state, but here it’s another matter - all the guys are their own. There will be no link, if I understand you correctly.

[Deon59]

from 25 million 4 percent is 1 million, mobilized 302 thousand, by the beginning of the year the contract was signed by about 400 thousand according to Dimon. It pulls up to a million, here even 4 percent does not come out
According to a February study by VTsIOM, the decision to hold a SVO is now supported by 68% of Russian citizens, which is 3% more than in 2022.

This level of support seems quite high, but it makes sense to compare this 68% with the number of volunteers announced by the President in mid-December who signed contracts with the Ministry of Defense over the past year (about 490 thousand), which is only about 2% of the number announced by Sergei Shoigu in September 2022 year, the number of mobilization resources in the country is about 25 million people.

At first glance, we simply have a factual reality of the unwillingness of the overwhelming majority of the target audience of state propaganda to voluntarily take part in hostilities, which is based on the quite understandable reluctance of an ordinary person to leave their familiar environment and go into the zone of hardships, hardships and risks to life, which reflects the state characteristic of the prevailing part of society.

[Deon59]

For Putin's supporters - Chubais is your idol, before Putin and under Putin he was ripping up the country. Kirilenko who wiped out our deposits, ran Rosatom which is building nuclear power plants with our money and for which no one will pay. Miller, instead of gasifying the country, built pipelines abroad. Sechin who sells gasoline cheaper than us Kazakhs. Shoigu is the main buddy who turned the army from a combat one into a showpiece. The list of examples is long.

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote from Deon59

For Putin's supporters - Chubais is your idol

Why did he run away from such a good life and become an enemy? For Putin's opponents, including Chubais and others, the idol is the dollar. Pray for him and wait as believers of the Savior.

[Deon59]

Damn, I'm on my knees praying for a dollar, this is who should have been elected president.

[nickname7]

namely, our leader’s adherence to the laws.

You get a plus for honoring rank. Is there a law according to which it is necessary to seize 300 yards from Russian funds? What kind of law allows the United States to ship weapons against us?

It didn’t start with non-recognition of our interests

Desert Storm began with accusations of Sadam using chemical weapons, then they said sorry, they were wrong. The strong do not need excuses; the strong accuse even when there is no guilt, you will not understand this if you come up with reasons to tearfully ask your wife for some money from your salary.
Saloreikh should have been accused of the lack of democracy in 14 and overthrown.

[klev72]

It was necessary to. I also have a lot of recipes for the past. What does chino have to do with it...!? This is realpolitik. I would like a saber and a knight... it’s not working now. At any given moment and under suitable circumstances, with your household you can not only spank the piano, but also hit the table. Only a year ago, Medvedev came to us to urgently organize the production of UAVs, re-equip two shopping centers and TP events with the defense industry, they were not ready for such a turn of events. And you keep dreaming about projects, without having all the information at that time. They didn’t ask anyone about Crimea, there are also many positive examples, then they could and were ready, that means.

[Shtrek]

However, back in early 2022, foreign partners and patrons declared their intention to support the Kiev regime in various ways and fulfilled this promise.

The leadership of the Russian Federation, when planning the Northern Military District, apparently considered these statements unimportant....
“...nothing, we can handle it,” was Patrushev’s response to the statement of CIA Director Burns at negotiations in Switzerland in November 2021....

[Eug]

I wonder - would anyone agree to live in such a zone?

[S.Z.]

“I’m wondering, would anyone agree to live in such a zone?”

No consent required.

[rotmistr60]

“Sanitary zone”, “buffer zone” are reflections on the hopes for the decency of the enemy and his sponsors? Remember how they tried to create such a zone after the Minsk agreements under the control of the OSCE, with the withdrawal of heavy weapons to certain distances, etc. And how did it all end? Nothing is correct, especially for the LDPR. OSCE staff did not notice any violations by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and they also collected intelligence data for them. If they announced demilitarization and denazification at one time, then we need to strive for this without succumbing to any Western tricks and verbiage.

[klev72]

Entering the borders of our regions gives rise to the rationale for the further advance of our forces deep into enemy territory. In this regard, I view the conversation about the buffer and TP exclusively from this angle. Everything is reasonable here, there is no reason to panic. Regarding further deliveries of long-range systems, this is also a positive point in the future to justify our progress, which, in my understanding, does not need to be accelerated, including for this reason, and the main thing is to save military personnel. I repeat that Svo will last at least another 5-7 years. Taking into account what happened in Snigerevka, where Bandera’s supporters openly threaten to massacre the Russians, this is also an indicator of the slowness of our progress, the rear must be cleared, and this work takes time.

[Stas157]

Quote: klev72

Regarding further deliveries of long-range systems, this is also a positive development in the future to justify our progress

Do you think that justification is required for our promotion?
Who will you justify it to? And for what?

[klev72]

I believe that our wishes remain the wishes of the lads from the back alley, and the president must follow the laws so that the world can see the validity of our actions. I have no doubt about the extermination of the Ukronazis. Everything has its time. The Ukronazis filed a lawsuit and lost why, ask yourself a question and get your answer, before whom. In addition, there are other countries that are not involved in the conflict; they must understand our actions. The image of countries, the legitimacy of power, which is not dictatorial, but is based and operates on legal grounds. Whether you and I like it or not, this is how things are done.

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote: Stas157

Who will you justify it to? And for what?

You definitely don’t need this: it makes it difficult to talk shit about the meaninglessness of the SVO and the lawlessness of our government. But for those who turn their ears to your bullshit, it may come in handy.

[turembo]

Honestly, I would not agree that we have destroyed the military and military-technical potential of the enemy. So, of course, we destroyed the enemy’s air defense in the first three days, but somehow in the third year the enemy manages to shoot down our equipment even over our territory, which is not great, and contradicts the statements made earlier. It’s the same with potential, you read articles and often come across the words counterattack, and reserves have been brought up, and it’s not clear that the front looks like a sieve....

[smart fellow]

What is a “Sanitary Zone” if full-fledged hostilities are underway? We are talking about stretching the front line - including an extended section of the state. borders on which full-fledged military operations are not conducted. The enemy wants to divert part of the forces from the active front by conducting demonstrative attacks on border areas, but is afraid to stretch the LBS because does not understand whether it is beneficial for him or not. The Russian command is also in no hurry to do this because resources are also limited. Both sides are giving the initiative to the enemy for now, but without stretching the front line, great successes cannot be achieved. Apparently, reserves have been accumulated for launching a decisive offensive. An offensive by Belarus is undesirable for various reasons, including 2-3 years of preparation of defensive areas there by the enemy. Therefore, the campaign against Kyiv (probably) will begin from the border regions and public and international opinion is being prepared.

[Idle_piston]

Red lines, demilitarization, sanitary zone. I'm afraid the next key phrase will be - mutually beneficial agreements.

[Stas157]

. the potential of the Kyiv regime is constantly declining. His defeat is already obvious, and the timing of such an outcome is determined only by the actions and plans of the Russian side.

When we take Odessa, then it will be obvious. But now it’s somehow not very good.

[AdAstra]

When will we take Odessa?""""

[Stas157]

Quote from AdAstra

When will we take Odessa?""""

Dmitry Anatolyevich promised! How he will do this, I don’t know.

[avia12005]

The main shortcomings of modern Russian foreign policy and military strategy are the extremely slow reaction to changing situations.

It is already obvious that the scale of military operations and intervention of Western countries in the Ukrainian conflict has long surpassed the scale of the Northern Military District in the form in which it was declared.

"Sanitary zone", "buffer zone", "security zone" and other similar terms are simply an attempt to escape from reality. And it is this: the security of the Russian Federation can only be ensured by a decisive military defeat of the enemy on the territory of the former Ukraine. Any negotiations will only make sense after that.

Any "sanitary zone" and leaving the Kyiv regime alive will only delay the conflict and leave a threat for future generations.

The problem can only be solved by complete victory and the elimination of the junta.

[Dedok]

“Sanitary zone” along the borders: Ukrainian threats and Russian responses

those. zone like around Pripyat? - no one except the beast?

[S.Z.]

Interesting article, although there are some controversial points.

1. If Ukraine’s imminent defeat is obvious (which is not yet the case), then there is nothing to worry about - we conclude a peace treaty that is beneficial to us, including the occupation of border areas or the deployment of our observers there. Maybe not only border ones. That is, in this case, a certain sanitary zone may not be required, or the whole of Ukraine will be a sanitary zone.

2. The Author’s reasoning about the DMZ under the ceasefire agreement is quite logical, only the agreement itself is not yet in sight. Under certain conditions this is possible, for example, under the control of UN Security Council forces. There are no conditions yet.

3. The formation of a sanitary zone during hostilities, in my opinion, is impossible in this case.
There are two options here - we go further and annex more territories - but then these territories also become Russia and they must be protected. However, watching the controversy, I see that both the authorities and the people are very worried about the shelling of our “old” territories, but what is happening in the territories of the DPR, LPR and our other new regions does not worry us much. That is, the capture of legally Russian Avdeevka with its almost complete destruction is normal, but shelling of Belgorod is not normal. Perhaps logic is not our weapon.
The second option is the occupation or destruction of everything within 100 km or more of our old border. This is unrealistic, since there are cities there - million-plus people and other NPs, but we will not destroy the inhabitants there or drive them away to Russia or push them out to Ukraine.
That is, I don’t see the option of creating a sanitary zone during the SVO.

[BAI]

To date, the Russian army has successfully destroyed the bulk of the Ukrainian military and military-industrial potential. The enemy's ability to resist and develop independently has sharply decreased.

Does Belgorod know about this? If everything is so bad in the Outskirts, why are we marking time?
We can’t take back humanitarian waste

[AdAstra]

“The main objectives of the current Special Operation in Ukraine are the demilitarization of the Kyiv regime and getting rid of the military threat from it.”
And where is another “de-” lost, eh, Mr. Author? And is everything really so successful? Right from the first sentence, it became clear who the author of the article was; you don’t even need to bring it up at the beginning.

[Ivan Seversky]

The maximum advance was achieved by September 1, 2022: our troops controlled 82 thousand km of new territories. As a result of the counteroffensives of the Ukrainian Armed Forces near Kharkov, Izyum, Kherson, our territories decreased to 64.5 thousand km (as of December 1.12.2022, 16), over the next 186 months, the advance of our troops amounted to 0.4 (one hundred eighty-six) square kilometers - 64.7 square kilometers per day, now our troops control XNUMX thousand km.

Belief in the possibility of achieving significant success in the foreseeable future is belief in a miracle, but in 25 months I stopped believing in miracles. The air defense system has reached an absolute positional impasse; the equipment that goes on the attack comes out from under the air defense/electronic warfare umbrella and is quickly knocked out by helicopters/FPV drones. Without equipment, instead of a combined arms offensive, the result is a slow crawl, without encirclement and taking prisoners, because of this, the attackers suffer greater losses.
The only option is an agreement on a ceasefire along the front line with Zelensky’s curators. This is a bad option, but prolonging the conflict is a catastrophic scenario for the Russian economy and demography; it means a complete break in most high-tech production chains and total dependence on a not very friendly China.
Now, in general, we are living well, but the reserves of the National Welfare Fund will last about a year, and to continue the SVO with the same intensity we will have to act according to the “guns instead of bread” scenario.

In this case, Ukraine will, of course, have it worse, but I don’t see any point in being happy that all of our neighbor’s cows have died; I’m concerned about the problems of my own country.

[bear cub]

I wish there were more smart people like you in this country, who are able to really assess the situation and understand what is happening at the front. How nice it is to read something sensible, and not just the daily roars of 60-year-old warriors sitting in armchairs and shouting that half of Europe must be conquered and the rest bombarded with nuclear weapons.

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote: Little Bear

I wish there were more smart people like this in this country.

Have all the “so smart” people from yours fled to Poland?

[S.Z.]

“The only option is an agreement on a ceasefire along the front line with Zelensky’s curators.”

The thing is that it doesn't work out, the conditions are too different, they don't intersect at any point. The hope for Trump, in my opinion, is completely unjustified, but, apparently, this is the main hope.

However, with such a rating, the “guns instead of butter” option is quite real - with the subsequent collapse of the economy, of course.

[Ivan Seversky]

The thing is that it doesn’t work out; the conditions are too different and don’t intersect at any point. The hope in Trump, in my opinion, is completely unjustified, but, apparently, this is the main hope.

It is not realistic to sign peace with Zelensky, but there is a possibility of agreeing on a ceasefire with the United States. The United States is already a winner: it has revived NATO and redistributed the European gas market in its favor. They have no reason to give Russia to their main rival, China.
A ceasefire is not peace, it is mutual shelling and dozens of deaths in the first year. Dozens, but not thousands.
A ceasefire is a return to normal life in Belgorod, the return of 300 thousand mobilized to their families and the opportunity to begin the economic development of new territories.

Zelensky’s power will most likely come to an end, since he will be forced to go to the polls and lose them miserably to the same Zaluzhny. The new president will also be anti-Russian, but it will be possible to conduct complex and lengthy negotiations with a president who is not addicted to amphetamines or cocaine.

I have heard statements that if you stop the North Military District, Ukraine will be pumped full of weapons and it will attack us. But this is precisely a complete discredit of the RF Armed Forces to believe that the Armed Forces of Ukraine will be able to recruit people from somewhere and go on the offensive.

[S.Z.]

“It’s not realistic to sign peace with Zelensky, but there is a possibility of agreeing with the United States on a ceasefire. The United States is already a winner: they have revived NATO and redistributed the European gas market in their favor. They have no reason to give up Russia to their main rival, China.”

In that case, I agree. You can give several more arguments why the United States has already achieved a lot and can only lose further. The same applies to the EU.

“I have heard statements that if you stop the North Military District, Ukraine will be pumped full of weapons and it will attack us.”

I think this is propaganda.

[Aleksandr_85]

There is only one problem - the enemy also knows everything about our condition, and will not make any concessions, and the guarantor is like agreeing to even a draw’s death, so it will be you and me who will “crack our forelocks.”

[S.Z.]

“There is only one problem - the enemy also knows everything about our condition, and will not make any concessions, and the guarantor is like agreeing to even a draw’s death, so it will be you and me who will be “crackling the forelocks.”

Here I agree with the respected Ivan Seversky - it is possible to agree with the US and the EU on a ceasefire, but not on peace. The destruction of Russia, its excessive weakening or dependence on China is not to everyone's advantage.

There is, however, a problem that without Ukraine they will not talk to us in principle.

[solar]

The only option is an agreement on a ceasefire along the front line with Zelensky’s curators. This is a bad option

Rather unrealistic. The enemy is clearly not going to do this

[Dante Alighieri]

Belief in the possibility of achieving significant success in the foreseeable future is belief in a miracle, but in 25 months I stopped believing in miracles. The air defense system has reached an absolute positional impasse; the equipment that goes on the attack comes out from under the air defense/electronic warfare umbrella and is quickly knocked out by helicopters/FPV drones. Without equipment, instead of a combined arms offensive, the result is a slow crawl, without encirclement and taking prisoners, because of this, the attackers suffer greater losses.

Well, if you don’t attack pre-prepared positions, don’t try to take multimillion-dollar cities like Kharkov by storm, don’t disperse your forces along the entire front, but, for example, strike with a powerful group in the relatively sparsely populated Sumy region, while simultaneously striking with Iskander ballistic missiles on bridges across the Dnieper, and flocks of Geraniums at the positions of the Patriot air defense system, followed by taking full control of the airspace, then it is quite possible to encircle the entire Ukrainian Armed Forces group on the eastern bank of the Dnieper. And this is a defeat for Ukraine in five minutes. Another question is that the implementation of such a scenario with the current political elite is simply impossible, because it requires a completely different style of management, speed of decision-making and tension of forces, which representatives of the petty-bourgeois establishment are not capable of in principle.

[Mikhail Maslov]

This is pure nonsense. I will only explain, for example, the statements of many NATO countries about the use of all weapons of destruction on the territory of the Russian Federation. What kind of agreement? There is a way out? Of course there is. To begin with, along the entire border line with Ukraine, the gradual transfer of our support forces and the border line itself deep into the territory of Ukraine. This will solve the issue of using small UAVs to penetrate the territory of the Russian Federation. This is a weak and frankly only temporary measure. In general, a serious offensive operation is needed to liberate/encircle Kharkov and the territories to the north. Clearly, such an operation now simply looks not feasible. This is a new front and all subsequent problems There is another but also temporary option. This is a significant increase in air defense and artillery, for counter-battery combat and specifically clearing the territory for further squeezing out the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

[Maks1995]

I agree with the opinions that the rumors about “sanitary zones” are just noodles for the electorate...
I especially like statements in articles like “A security zone for protection against ground strikes, drawn from the current borders and front line, will block a significant part of Ukrainian territory. With the liberation of new Russian regions, it will move in a westerly direction with an understandable result.”
To simplify - until you give up, we will bomb and bomb

[Oleg133]

This rose did not bloom for the purpose of making Russians live well.
1 Ukraine was fed by the Russian Federation for 25 years
Somewhere, then, Tajik compatriots must live freely

[Serik Bur]

Quote from Deon59

What's worse for me? The toothlessness of our leadership. A friend’s son, a young officer, died in the Northern Military District in April 2022. A former colleague’s son, an officer, got into trouble at the beginning of the Northern Military District, and he didn’t remember anything about patriotism. Well, I myself am a former military man and I know what war is. According to VTsIOM, volunteers in the Northern Military District make up 4 percent of the mobilization resource.

Write the truth - “according to your data” - “former military man”. Yes, the level of sissies is falling.

[Ghost1]

I remember they talked about this sanitary zone in the summer of 23, we need to see when implementation begins, not discussion.

[Igor1915]

What zone is there, the Russian Federation has only one way out - to level Ukraine to the ground, no one will negotiate with the Russian Federation about anything, either the Russian Federation or Ukraine. If those at the top, starting with Svobodny, did not understand this - there is no reason to be there. ........ Lavrov.

[KVU-NSVD]

I read the article. Lots of letters. A sanitary zone is needed. Its size should be determined by the range of the enemy's mass weapons. At the moment, the Grad-class MLRS and 155mm artillery can serve as the determining factors. This is about 40-50 km. Control of the zone is only possible by units on the ground. No reconnaissance with detection and subsequent destruction without infantry on the ground will give an acceptable result. Plus, a ramified agent network is desirable in the zone. Air defense can easily cope with strike weapons that can strike from outside the zone.

PS NU and order with the state identification system still needs to be restored.
PS2 the zone should have an advance payment of approximately 30 km, where reconnaissance assets and groups with breeders for strike weapons are actively working

[Sergei Viktorovich Korolev]

In fact, the Bandera (Russians) are more valuable to the Kremlin than the Belgorod and Bryansk population. I cannot explain the daily bombings and deaths of the border civilians to anyone else.

[bone1]

Don’t look for sabotage where there is ordinary nonsense and chaos

[staer-62]

When they come to kill you, you will only regret one thing: that you didn’t kill first while you had the opportunity. Europe must be destroyed.

[Yuras_Belarus]

How to control these zones? Even if occupation troops are brought in, this is not a guarantee. Now you can hide missiles in a civilian vehicle and launch them from anywhere, because you can’t put a sentry at every bush.

[Come in large numbers]

In principle, when the Supreme Commander spoke about the buffer zone, there seemed to be no clarification in which direction it would be. If we evacuate our population 200 km from the border, then this is a buffer zone. And everything went according to plan again.

[Non-fighter]

The French are in Odessa, and nearby (and possibly from the territory!!) of their unit they are launching drones with a range of over 1000 km. What we are going to do? Bomb? So there is French air defense there. Destroy air defense? War with France.
According to the existing demilitarized zones, nothing comes from the other side, even from the Koreans, the truce is observed.

[solar]

First of all, the principles of organizing the demilitarized zone are in question. It may appear as a result of some kind of agreement with the Kyiv regime, existing or future, or with its foreign masters.

In the absence of understanding from “foreign partners,” a security zone can be created by our army unilaterally.

Both of these are outright Manilovism, especially taking into account the fact that even the capture of a village of the “three stakes, two yards” type is considered a great success at the front. :((

[bone1]

You wonder what kind of nonsense the author is talking about, and the same chatterboxes on TV - what kind of neutral zone is this, how can you get it, unless you come to an agreement with Ukrainians and they will agree to withdraw troops and equipment from this zone - and they will agree to this? - then why not immediately agree that they will remove troops beyond the Dnieper - or even better, beyond the western border. The only possible way to secure the territory of Russia is to seize these territories - well, why don’t they seize?

[certero]

Well, what kind of safety zone can there be in the modern world? A drone that can fly 1.000 km costs 150.000 bucks on AliExpress

[Stalnov I.P.]

M. Gorky. Born to crawl, cannot fly!

[odisey3000]

This is all just another blizzard. Only liberation from these demons - nationalists of the entire left-bank Ukraine will allow Russia to gain at least some stability and security. And the sanitary zone with today's Ukraine should run through the Lvov region, only then will there be at least some security. Otherwise, it's just talk.