Roosevelt's Failed Circular

79
Roosevelt's Failed Circular
General view of the T24 machine gun with the barrel half removed. Photo taken at Aberdeen Proving Ground


The Americans did not stand aside either. After the first meetings with the MG-42 in the field, numerous laudatory odes poured into the headquarters “from below” arms the enemy with an unequivocal “I wish we had something like that.” It is worth noting that the Americans had a simply different concept; they did not have machine guns in their infantry squad... Yes, the classic BAR, which appeared back in 1918, is not a machine gun, but an automatic rifle. Since the First World War, the tactics of using this weapon have changed; firing from the hip in an offensive chain, as the main type of fire, was no longer intended, but no one in the USA was going to make a machine gun from a rifle. There were countries that tried to turn this weapon system into a full-fledged light machine gun, and these machine guns even fought in the hands of our soldiers during the Great Patriotic War, but this is a completely different matter. story.




American infantrymen from the 34th Infantry Division (Privates Robert Grassman, Thomas Mandabah and Corporal Virgil Teslow) clean two captured MG-42 machine guns, San Vittore, January 1944

This resulted in the fact that in 1943, an order was given to convert two captured MG-42s to the American cartridge 30-06 (7.62×63 mm) for the purpose of testing, and “if it’s really urgent, we’ll cut the trophies, and then his own will catch up.” It seems that the American rifle ammunition was, in fact, copied from the German (over which the Germans even sued the Americans), made a new barrel, a couple more parts - and forward. But the contractor who received the contract was overwhelmed with other army orders, and the contract for converting two machine guns was abandoned on a distant shelf. Plus, the order itself was received by the automobile manufacturer - General Motors Corporation, which sent this task to its division - Saginaw Steering Gear Division. Needless to say, before this, as the name suggests, the office was engaged in the development and production of steering mechanisms for cars, and was not involved in weapons at all. American industry was still transitioning to a war footing, and this process was fraught with difficulties. As a result, two experimental machine guns, designated T24, left for testing at the Aberdeen Proving Ground only at the beginning of 1944. In addition to the other ammunition itself, the machine gun received sights and a bipod from the BAR automatic rifle, a shorter stock and a mount for installation on an American M3 tripod. Most of the machine gun's parts remained German.


T24 machine gun on an American machine. Photo taken at Aberdeen Proving Ground

Well, let's get to the most interesting part right away - the American Germans failed the test miserably. There are no chances or options at all. One machine gun turned out to be, in fact, inoperable; it jammed after the first shot, then after the second - and that was the end of its testing. The second tortured testers with constant misfires and delays. There were, however, two big “BUTs”. 1. The alterations were carried out completely, literally with the heel of the right foot, hence the fact that one machine gun was actually inoperative. 2. One of the requirements for alterations was to reduce the rate of fire. Although the army command looked towards the idea of ​​a single machine gun, they considered the wild rate of fire to be a flaw.


Official report on machine gun testing dated May 16, 1944. It is in the public domain, you can read about every misfire and delay... and there were a lot of them

Again, different concepts. The Germans believed that in the first burst it was necessary to “cut off” as many fighters as possible before they lay down and found cover, hence the wild rate of fire. Hence the problems with reliability - the machine gun was originally made to meet other requirements. There is a test report in the public domain, and it is quite voluminous, due to the fact that it describes all the malfunctions of the machine gun, and there were many of them.


The receiver of the M1919A4 machine gun with the manufacturer's mark of the Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Corporation. The automobile manufacturer and its divisions produced a huge number of military products, including small arms. But it’s one thing to receive drawings and produce an already proven model, and another thing to do minimal design work without having relevant experience

In general, the idea was shelved and buried there. The reasons, however, are not only the reliability of the alterations. The year was 1944. It was already more than clear to the Allies that the Thousand-Year Reich would not last even two decades, and everything was coming to an end. Plus, the Americans generally had no problems with machine guns. There was also a machine gun armament system that was fully developed and working, and most importantly, unlike the USSR, there were no problems with the sheer number of machine guns. So, logically, they didn’t change the horses at the crossing and, in general, left everything as it was. Perhaps they made an ersatz single machine gun from the Browning system machine gun of the 1919 model, changing the barrel, attaching a butt and adding a bipod, while leaving the possibility of mounting on a tripod, but it was clear that this was a temporary solution (albeit one that worked).


The German tape was used without any changes at all; the cartridge case for the American and German cartridges was essentially the same

And they took advantage of the German experience after the war, when creating the real first American single machine gun, although another German design was used there, but that’s a completely different story.


American troops did not use German machine guns en masse and for a long time, but this happened all the time, most often until the available ammunition was used up directly in battle. One such incident happened to the legendary Audie Murphy when he used a captured MG-42 to destroy several German positions. The photo shows Murphy himself in a promotional photo for the autobiographical film “To Hell and Back.” It was filmed in 1955 based on the book of the same name by Audie Murphy himself. Both the book and the film were a great success.
79 comments
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  1. +4
    18 March 2024 05: 19
    They didn’t have machine guns in their infantry squad...
    “Here’s the thing, guys, I won’t give you a machine gun!”
    1. +1
      18 March 2024 21: 44
      Quote from Uncle Lee
      “Here’s the thing, guys, I won’t give you a machine gun!”

      Maybe it's right.
      “To have a sea of ​​fire, you need a mountain of cartridges!” (With)
  2. -1
    18 March 2024 05: 27
    Interesting note!
    and most importantly, unlike the USSR, there were no problems with the sheer number of machine guns.

    I don’t remember any such problems, certainly not in the second half of the war.
    1. 0
      18 March 2024 06: 18
      I’m a tanker, but I’ve read that in the Red Army, the “workhorse” was: the Degtyarev system machine gun.. RPD
      The Maxim system machine gun was also widely used.
      Quadruple Maxim installations, widely used as an air defense weapon
      1. +1
        18 March 2024 06: 26
        Before the war, the DS-39 was adopted, not particularly successful, but by 43 and SG-43, they had probably heard about SGMT...
        1. +2
          19 March 2024 07: 27
          I saw Gorbunov “live”: in Lugansk at the crossroads, a checkpoint and Goryunov stood there
      2. +8
        18 March 2024 07: 06
        DP-27!
        RPD post-war development chambered for 7,62×39.
        And the DP evolved into the DPM and then into the post-war RP-46.
        1. +1
          18 March 2024 08: 04
          Quote: hohol95
          RPD post-war development chambered for 7,62×39.

          So it's 1944.
          1. +2
            18 March 2024 11: 11
            I was in a hurry... it happens.
            Work began immediately after the adoption of the new cartridge and the machine gun was given the name RPD-44, but this haste did not lead to the immediate adoption of the machine gun for service.
            "...
            The long work of “bringing to mind” the RPD lasted several more years. In fact, the machine gun with the numbers “44” in the index was adopted for service only in 1948, and began mass production in 1949."
            https://warspot.ru/17133-zadolgo-do-minimi
            1. +2
              18 March 2024 11: 22
              Quote: hohol95
              I was in a hurry... it happens.

              Yes, in general, it’s not important, I’m doing the same to keep the conversation going.)))
              1. 0
                18 March 2024 11: 25
                And that is true!
                I’ve already read about American attempts to copy “42nd” on the Internet.
      3. +7
        18 March 2024 08: 19
        Good morning colleague!
        I am also a former tanker, a conscript. smile drinks
        When talking about Degtyarev’s “handbrake,” you mean, of course, DP-27 (Degtyarev Infantry Model 1927)
        The RPD, or more precisely the RPD-44, appeared at the very end of the war and practically did not take part in the hostilities.
        1) Dp-27.
        2) RPD-44.
        3) DT (Degtyarev Tank)
        1. +2
          19 March 2024 07: 43
          Hello tanker. What car did you use?
          I, despite my desire, mastered the T-64, but I like: T-62 BZ, I’ve already mastered it well
          1. +1
            19 March 2024 16: 33
            Good afternoon, Igor!
            I studied at the Bikinsky training on the T-55 and T-62, served in the line on the "Polstachverka", no stabilizer, no night sight - grace.))) Gunner, then commander. In less than three years, I ended up on a “shift change.”
            1. +1
              31 March 2024 08: 43
              Tanker, good afternoon. I was stupid: instead of: I -72 B3, I called it: T-62
              Sixty-second, I know in theory.
              Thank God they didn't send them to us
              1. 0
                31 March 2024 16: 55
                Igor, hello!
                These are all the little things in life, don’t be upset.))
                I’ve only seen “Seventy-second” at parades.
                Why is there such a dislike for the T-62? I don’t know it well, only from training. soldier
    2. +2
      18 March 2024 08: 33
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      I don’t remember such problems, certainly not in the second half of the war.

      The production of SG-43 in wartime, according to Vika, was 80 thousand units, DS-39 - 10 thousand.
      Production of MG-42 and Browning M1919 more than 400 thousand units.
      1. +1
        18 March 2024 11: 35
        Will you count MG-34?
        Browning M1917?
        Did you count the Browning M1919 from the beginning of production or from the moment the Americans entered World War II?
        BAR (almost light machine gun of the US Army and Marine Corps)?
        How many Russian Maxim machine guns of the 1910 model were produced before 1945?
        1. +3
          18 March 2024 14: 38
          Quote: hohol95
          Will you count MG-34?
          Browning M1917?

          No, I will not.
          Quote: hohol95
          Did you count the Browning M1919 from the beginning of production or from the moment the Americans entered World War II?

          From the beginning of release, of course. The Americans did not lose any materiel in the boilers of 41.
          Quote: hohol95
          BAR

          I don’t consider BAR and DP.
          Quote: hohol95
          How many Russian Maxim machine guns of the 1910 model were produced before 1945?

          Who cares?

          The thesis that 2U latched onto: the spacecraft had problems with machine guns. Yes they were. At the end of the war it was not as bad as at the beginning, but also not brilliant.

          Is this news?
          1. 0
            18 March 2024 14: 46
            No. That's not news.
            But the LOSS of the American army in Southeast Asia is also not news!
            Do you think that the Americans “didn’t lose any material in the boilers?”
            They simply abandoned it for a quick retreat. Just like the British.
            And if you take the production of the M1919 from the very beginning, then why don’t you take the production of the 1910 Maxim?
            There were “a carriage and a hundred carts” in the Red Army, but they were able to get out of many difficult situations.
            Not the way the Yankees got out of similar situations, but all this has long been demogogy.
            The American soldiers who fought at the Quiet Window believed that they had enormous problems due to the lack of a normal light machine gun.
            Their commanders and superiors did not think so!
            1. +2
              18 March 2024 16: 09
              Quote: hohol95
              But the LOSS of the American army in Southeast Asia is also not news!

              Are you talking about the only Philippine division? Yes, the division was pretty well-fed, but it was only one division.
              1. 0
                18 March 2024 16: 19
                Plus there were Filipinos armed with American weapons.
                Of course, this is not the Battle of Moscow.
                But the American armed forces themselves were not a “steamroller” in 1941.
                1. +1
                  18 March 2024 16: 24
                  Quote: hohol95
                  Plus there were Filipinos armed with American weapons.

                  These are the problems of the Filipinos. There was no need to spend the release of its new weapons on reforming purely Filipino units of the United States.
                  Quote: hohol95
                  Of course, this is not the Battle of Moscow.

                  Losses of weapons in the Battle of Moscow are grimaces of Soviet statistics. The fact is that the losses included captured and obsolete weapons issued to the militia and MZO reservists, and then replaced and written off.
                  1. 0
                    18 March 2024 16: 28
                    Right.
                    The Yankees were not going to stand up in defense of the Philippines at all.
                    And then, naturally, they did not need to arm the reformed Filipino units.
                    They were in Japanese captivity!

                    It is interesting that the British recorded losses in Singapore and in Southeast Asia in general.
            2. 0
              18 March 2024 19: 03
              Quote: hohol95
              They believed that they had huge problems due to the lack of a normal light machine gun.

              You can’t make a “normal light machine gun” with a rifle cartridge. It was probably a shame for the Americans, but that’s how it is.
              1. +2
                18 March 2024 19: 37
                So you consider all light machine guns that are not of Teutonic origin “not normal”?
                BREN, DP-27, ZB-26/30?
                Or did you mean the American 7,62x63 cartridge?
                1. +2
                  18 March 2024 20: 16
                  No, on the contrary. I consider only light machine guns with intermediate or low-impulse cartridges to be “normal” light machine guns. And the listed samples are my great-grandfather’s AR-10s, more or less successful.

                  The Germans of the WWII period practically did not use “light machine guns” at all. And in general, we managed quite well without them.
      2. +1
        18 March 2024 11: 43
        Quote: Negro
        The production of SG-43 in wartime, according to Vika, was 80 thousand units, DS-39 - 10 thousand.
        Production of MG-42 and Browning M1919 more than 400 thousand units.

        DP, DPM and Maxim, although the rate of production of Maxim was reduced due to the DS-39, no one stopped producing.
        1. -1
          18 March 2024 14: 30
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          DP, DPM and Maxim

          I think you understand that the listed products are not analogues of the M1919 and MG.
          1. +1
            18 March 2024 16: 21
            If "Maxim" is not related to the M1919, then what is related to it?
            British Vickers?
            Or the Austrian "Schwarlose"?
            1. +1
              18 March 2024 18: 59
              Quote: hohol95
              If "Maxim" is not related to the M1919, then what is related to it?

              Belt-fed machine guns of similar weight. They have already been mentioned. As for the maxim, its analogue is M2. Come on, fight.
          2. 0
            18 March 2024 16: 45
            Quote: Negro
            I think you understand that the listed products are not analogues of the M1919 and MG.

            However, these are machine guns for rifle caliber, and since the MG is a single machine gun, the DP is its analogue, although not complete like the Maxim. And M1919 could not work without a machine at all, just like Maxim. So the comment looks strange.
            1. +1
              18 March 2024 17: 08
              DP cannot possibly be an analogue of MG for a number of reasons, which are not worth voicing for the 101st time.
              1. 0
                18 March 2024 17: 10
                Quote: Letterhead
                DP cannot possibly be an analogue of MG for a number of reasons, which are not worth voicing for the 101st time.
                If you are such a bookworm, then why didn’t you notice the words “albeit not complete”?
                Was he a machine gun? That's it.
                1. +1
                  18 March 2024 17: 11
                  It was an analogue of the BAR, and AVT and ABC can be equated to machine guns
                  1. +1
                    18 March 2024 17: 22
                    Quote: Letterhead
                    It was an analogue of the BAR, and AVT can be equated to machine guns

                    What else was an analogue of BAR - Bren? Certainly. Type 99? Without a doubt. Breda 30? Why not. Chatellerault is 24 years old. We're here. No, but what?
                    These are all light machine guns, like the DP-27.
                    1. 0
                      18 March 2024 18: 22
                      Vladimir, I don’t even know where to start... for example, compare the number of loaded magazines for a squad and the number of disks per DP. This is food for thought. Or are you just comparing pictures and performance characteristics?
                      1. +1
                        19 March 2024 03: 48
                        Quote: Letterhead
                        Vladimir, I don’t even know where to start... for example, compare the number of loaded magazines for a squad and the number of disks per DP. This is food for thought.

                        It is obvious, but not for you, that this does not relate to the classification of weapons, but to production problems. And by the way, what about the number of stores near the branch? Here the DP CALCULATION has at least 4 discs with 160 (personally, I assume for reliability of supply) cartridges, not counting the loose ones.
                        And what about the stores of the French Hotchkiss model 1922 and Mle 1924 Chatellerault, Czech ZB-26, English Vickers-Berthier, Swiss Solothurn M29 and Furrer M25, Italian Breda, Finnish M1926 "Lahti-Zaloranta", Japanese "Type 11"

                        Quote: Letterhead
                        Or are you just comparing pictures and performance characteristics?
                        And you? Pictures, pictures.
                      2. +1
                        19 March 2024 10: 46
                        25 equipped stores. And a squad built around a machine gun, yes, I’m also comparing the tactics of use. And 4 discs is not the minimum, it’s the maximum, I read the memoirs, rarely did anyone manage to get hold of a large number. And the disks failed very easily, judging by the literature. Scattering is considered such a task, because equipping the disc is a thoughtful and exciting task for the second number. Plus a large mass of empty stuff. It's like a PPSh and two diamonds: shoot and smoke.
                      3. +1
                        19 March 2024 13: 26
                        Quote: Letterhead
                        And a squad built around a machine gun, yes, I’m also comparing the tactics of use.

                        That is, the Soviet department worked separately, and the DP separately? Are you sure you know about tactics?

                        Quote: Letterhead
                        And 4 discs is not the minimum, it’s the maximum, I read the memoirs, rarely did anyone manage to get hold of a large number.

                        And I read that discs were also carried in duffel bags, in addition to the box and the machine gun. 4 disks are the standard minimum.

                        Quote: Letterhead
                        25 equipped stores.
                        It should have been, but let’s say a magazine is, of course, simpler than a disk magazine. But this does not change the question:
                        Quote: Vladimir_2U
                        And what about the stores of the French Hotchkiss model 1922 and Mle 1924 Chatellerault, Czech ZB-26, English Vickers-Berthier, Swiss Solothurn M29 and Furrer M25, Italian Breda, Finnish M1926 "Lahti-Zaloranta", Japanese "Type 11"

                        Quote: Letterhead
                        Scattering is considered such a task, because equipping the disc is a thoughtful and exciting task for the second number. Plus a large mass of empty stuff. It's like a PPSh and two diamonds: shoot it and smoke it.
                        I don’t argue with this, but this is not a reason to write nonsense about the fact that the DP-27 is not a light machine gun.
                      4. -1
                        19 March 2024 15: 15
                        That is, the Soviet department worked separately, and the DP separately?

                        Apart from the second number, no one was involved in carrying ammunition to the machine gun. It was considered sufficient if a platoon ammunition supply point was established.
                        And I read that discs were also carried in duffel bags, in addition to the box and the machine gun. 4 disks are the standard minimum.
                        It’s possible, but the disk is a delicate thing, like earth, sand was sprinkled on it and there’s no supply.
                        this is not a reason to write nonsense about the fact that the DP-27 is not a light machine gun.
                        excuse me, you are wrong, I didn’t say that, if I’m wrong, correct me with the quotation. On the contrary, I only objected to your statement
                        and since the MG is a single machine gun, then the DP is its analogue, although not complete like Maxim
                      5. 0
                        19 March 2024 17: 10
                        Quote: Letterhead
                        Apart from the second number, no one was involved in carrying ammunition to the machine gun. It was considered sufficient if a platoon ammunition supply point was established.

                        Actually, the British also write: 25 magazines are carried by a machine gunner and number two, and their tactical schemes are appropriate - machine gunners in isolation.

                        Quote: Letterhead
                        It’s possible, but the disk is a delicate thing, like earth, sand was sprinkled on it and there’s no supply.
                        I don’t think so with the earth, but it bent quite easily...


                        Quote: Letterhead
                        this is not a reason to write nonsense about the fact that the DP-27 is not a light machine gun.
                        excuse me, you are wrong, I didn’t say that, if I’m wrong, correct me with the quotation. On the contrary, I only objected to your statement
                        A completely unambiguous statement:
                        Quote: Letterhead
                        It was an analogue of the BAR, and AVT and ABC can be equated to machine guns
    3. 0
      18 March 2024 13: 21
      Then brush up on your knowledge. The states did not restore machine guns until the end of the war, and besides, there were chronically insufficient magazines and belts, to the point that the formations had 0.5-2 disks left on the DP and one tape on the maxim.
      1. +1
        18 March 2024 16: 47
        Quote: IImonolitII
        Then brush up on your knowledge. The States never restored machine guns until the end of the war

        I won’t argue with this, but I will write that the number of tanks that had up to three machine guns has sharply increased.

        Quote: IImonolitII
        to the point that the connections were left with 0.5-2 disks per DP and one tape per max.
        What, also at the end of the war? Let me not believe it.
  3. BAI
    +1
    18 March 2024 06: 08
    . The year was 1944. It was already more than clear to the Allies that the Thousand-Year Reich would not last even two decades,

    Who was it that was going to fight for 1944 years in 20?
    1. +2
      18 March 2024 08: 22
      Who was it that was going to fight for 1944 years in 20?


      Samurai.)))))))) laughing wassat
  4. 0
    18 March 2024 08: 37
    Roosevelt's Failed Circular

    The Americans took a different path. They made Mdvoek in absolutely wild quantities.
    1. -1
      18 March 2024 08: 43
      M-60 variation MG-34-42-45....
      1. -2
        18 March 2024 08: 57
        Quote: Monster_Fat
        M-60 variation MG-34-42-45....

        We are talking about the WWII period.
      2. 0
        18 March 2024 18: 19
        Quote: Monster_Fat
        M-60 variation MG-34-42-45....

        More likely a reworking of the FG-42
    2. +1
      18 March 2024 16: 11
      Quote: Negro
      The Americans took a different path. They made Mdvoek in absolutely wild quantities.

      And the equipment on which they could be installed. Because without equipment, carrying 60 kg of Ma Deuce using crew forces is very sad. wink
  5. +5
    18 March 2024 09: 19
    The author has a specific style of starting his opuses. The first sentence of the article has no semantic connection with the text.
    The Americans did not stand aside either.

    What did the Americans not stay away from? If from the attempt to convert the MG-42 machine gun to their own cartridge, then in 1943 only the Finns made such an attempt. By the way, despite the fact that the Finns had a much more difficult task, since the conversion was carried out under the 7,62x54 mm R cartridge, the Lahti brothers coped with the task successfully.
    It seems that the American rifle ammunition was, in fact, copied from the German (over which the Germans even sued the Americans)

    Here the author writes according to the principle “I heard a ringing, but does not know where it is.” The .30-06 Springfield cartridge was not copied from the 7.92x57mm Mauser cartridge. The lawsuit between the German company DWM and the US government was over the pointed bullet of the .30-06 Springfield cartridge. And the American cartridge itself is 6,5 mm longer than the German one.
    The main reason for the failure with the T24 machine gun is that they tried to solve the problem of reducing the rate of fire by simply making the bolt heavier and replacing the return spring. Accordingly, the automation stopped working.
    Subsequently, when a similar problem was solved in Switzerland, the Waffenfabrik Bern company made much more serious alterations, changing the method of locking the shutter and introducing a shutter accelerator into the design. The result was the famous 7.5 mm Maschinengewehr 1951, a kind of Rolex among machine guns.
    1. +1
      18 March 2024 11: 16
      And many of these “ROLEX” were produced and sold to different parts of the world?
      1. +4
        18 March 2024 13: 22
        And many of these “ROLEX” were produced and sold to different parts of the world?

        Do you often see ROLEX?
        The Swiss initially designed the machine gun only “for themselves.” While the Germans, when developing the MG-42, tried to simplify the technology as much as possible, the Swiss, without planning large production and exports, on the contrary, focused on reliability and durability. For example, the Mg 51 receiver is milled from a single forging. It is still in service with the Swiss army to this day. The Danes also asked for a small batch chambered for the .30-06 Springfield cartridge.
        1. +2
          18 March 2024 13: 44
          Nowadays, watches, “mechanical or quartz,” are rarely seen on the hands of passers-by.
          And I don’t wear a watch myself.
          1. +4
            18 March 2024 13: 49
            I’ve gotten used to it for almost 60 years; at my age, changing habits is difficult and even harmful.
        2. +2
          18 March 2024 16: 13
          Quote: Dekabrist
          For example, the Mg 51 receiver is milled from a single forging.

          True to Oerlikon traditions! smile
          The Yankees, remember, were howling like a wolf at such technological delights of Oerlikon and Bofors - because it was in no way suitable for a large series.
        3. +1
          18 March 2024 18: 39
          Quote: Dekabrist
          For example, the Mg 51 receiver is milled from a single forging.

          The one-piece milled box was not made for reliability and durability characteristics. It was simply cheaper overall, based on the volume of output and the technological limitations of Switzerland's own industry. AK model 47 was also initially produced with a completely milled frame, until stamping (AKM) was mastered. The advantages are obvious: without changing the machine park, it takes a long and tedious time to produce a Rolex. The disadvantages are also well known: low release rate, high consumption of material “in chips” and excessive weight of the machine gun.
          1. +2
            18 March 2024 19: 01
            technological limitations of Switzerland's own industry.

            The Swiss industry had no restrictions in this regard. Together with the Mg 51, Waffenfabrik Bern produced the SturmGewehr 1951 with a stamped receiver like the original - FG 42.
            1. +3
              18 March 2024 19: 26
              There may have been no restrictions, but the doormen certainly had brains. In a small series, the hassle with stamping does not pay off (capitalism, however). This automatic rifle can be launched even for a compact army with millions of copies. But what about a machine gun, of which several tens of thousands are needed, even taking into account armored vehicles? The answer is simple - don’t fool yourself and use the existing fleet of universal machines. With the resource, everything is also strange... did the MG-42 have problems with the strength and operational reliability of the receiver? I've never heard of this. On the contrary, this is precisely its “trick” in comparison with its competitor in the form of the MG-39 with a milled box. And the post-war MG-3 under 7,62x51 NATO was produced with “stamping”. Everything was OK. I think the economics of small series defined the technology.
              1. +3
                18 March 2024 19: 47
                I think the economics of small series defined the technology.

                Well, let it be your way.
          2. 0
            25 March 2024 08: 33
            Quote: DesToeR
            AK model 47 was also initially produced with a solidly milled frame

            With stamped. But it turned out badly, so we switched to milling and at the same time lightened the machine. And they returned to stamping at AKM.
  6. +2
    18 March 2024 10: 49
    My grandfather was a tank driver, he fought from '43 until Konigsberg. I really praised the MG 42.
    1. +3
      18 March 2024 13: 57
      Drabkin, in his book “You and I, Brother, From the Infantry,” has memories of a machine gunner. He very much scolded our "Maxim" for its weight, and especially for the canvas tape, which constantly caused delays and required adjustments to the feed, and highly praised the mg-34-42 for its long aiming line, optical sight, soft recoil, and especially praised the German metal tape - which, due to the fact that its end could engage with the beginning of another tape, made the shooting endless, just know to change the barrels and cool the box.....
    2. 0
      18 March 2024 20: 57
      Quote from: lukash66
      I really praised the MG 42.

      I wonder why?! I remember my grandfather telling me when I saw a German machine gun as a child in a film about the war and really admired it! "Good machine gun!" he said. “When they don’t shoot at you! But he’s very capricious, like a woman!”
  7. 0
    18 March 2024 13: 58
    So in the end the mountain gave birth to a pig lol M-60. Lenpoptazhka from mg-42, but the automation is not on a semi-released shutter (rollers), but from fg-42.
  8. -1
    18 March 2024 15: 56
    Quote: Dekabrist
    The .30-06 Springfield cartridge was not copied from the 7.92x57mm Mauser cartridge.

    I don’t know who copied what from whom, but the assholes of these cartridges are really the same, and the 8x57 cartridge appeared earlier, so the MG42 bolt could easily work with the 30-06 cartridge. Question about stroke size. Well, put the barrel under 30-06. Minimum alterations.
  9. -3
    18 March 2024 16: 05
    Quote from Enceladus
    So in the end the mountain gave birth to a pig lol M-60. Lenpoptazhka from mg-42, but the automation is not on a semi-released shutter (rollers), but from fg-42.

    Well, for some reason it doesn’t work out for the soldiers with machine guns. And there is no one normal, Minimi doesn’t look like one, and he’s Belgian. And as a large piece, Browning’s product is from the century before last. Kord looks like a prodigy compared to him. laughing
    1. +2
      18 March 2024 17: 01
      Minimi is a single one and never claimed this title, under an intermediate low-pulse cartridge, you are not sufficiently informed. And you can watch the wunderwaffle against the backdrop of Browning on the patriotic YouTube channel “large-caliber commotion.” There, the operator couldn’t put the bullets in the barn with the Wooderwaffle, but with the Browning he put the bullets almost at the same point if he wanted
      1. -2
        18 March 2024 20: 24
        You can watch the “large-caliber commotion” on the patriotic YouTube channel. There, the operator couldn’t get the wudderwaffle into the barn

        The author of the channel looks like he can’t shoot anything with anything, it turns out lousy! It looks like he didn’t even get through “Basic Military Training”!
        1. 0
          19 March 2024 00: 22
          Let's just say, if something happens, if you have to compare, the author of that channel shoots several times better than 95% of VO readers
          1. +1
            19 March 2024 21: 18
            Quote: Letterhead
            Let's just say, if something happens, if you have to compare, the author of that channel shoots several times better than 95% of VO readers

            Are you saying that most of the local visitors are "Couch Generals"?! hi
      2. 0
        20 March 2024 00: 38
        it seems there was a cliff there, not a cord
  10. 0
    18 March 2024 19: 01
    The Yankees didn’t have a handbrake in the department - that’s funny - but why did they need a German?
    1. 0
      18 March 2024 19: 10
      They had a BAR in the department. M27 Infantry Automatic Rifle for new money. As for the handbrake issue, there are different opinions in the department, both then and now.
      1. 0
        18 March 2024 19: 13
        And this, apparently, is not a handbrake? laughing
        1. 0
          18 March 2024 19: 19
          Why? This is exactly what was called a handbrake in those years, something like an RPK on a rifle cartridge. What kind of stories are they telling about the “normal handbrake” and its absence - I have no idea.
          1. 0
            18 March 2024 19: 21
            So I, too, apparently the author does not consider it a handbrake, for religious reasons
            1. 0
              18 March 2024 20: 20
              Well, to compare, with our money, a 7,62 caliber assault rifle, let’s say the FN FAL, and a full-fledged machine gun, the same M60, is really unreasonable.