SOMUA S35. What was the best French tank?

65
SOMUA S35. What was the best French tank?
Samyursky S35 in running condition. The tank was visited by the Germans; the roof of the observation turret was cut off and a double-leaf hatch was welded on. The commander sits marching-style on the aft hatch.


French Tanks The interwar period receives very contradictory assessments. We traditionally criticize them, and not always to the point. In Western publications, on the contrary, French armor is often placed on the same level as German armor, and even higher. This also applies to the assessment of the best French tank of the 30s - SOMUA S35.



Some believe that, despite all its shortcomings, the tank was truly successful for its time, others call it the best among the worst. Mikhail Baryatinsky I actually wrote it once, that "the French S35 was a tank brought to perfection that met the requirements of the First World War."

Today we will look at the S35 in detail and give it a balanced assessment based on original documents, and not on retellings of dubious publications.

The attention to the design is no coincidence: the tank turned out to be interesting and progressive, but at the same time very French. It can easily be called a showcase of French technologies.

Cavalry is mechanized


To adequately evaluate the design of the S35, you first need to identify under what conditions and for what tasks it was created.

In the early 30s, the French cavalry issued requirements for three types of combat vehicles for long-range reconnaissance (AMD), short-range reconnaissance (AMR) and combat with enemy tanks (AMC). The niche of “patrol on wheels” was occupied by the successful armored car AMD 35 from Panhard.

Renault received orders for the AMR 33 and AMC 34 tanks, but they did not go into large production.

Firstly, the cars turned out to be very problematic: the extremely cheap chassis were not reliable and often broke down.

Secondly, in 1934 the cavalry demanded that the AMC armor be strengthened to 40 mm. This put an end to the improved (not in terms of reliability!) AMC 35 from Renault.


S35 prototype with turret weight mock-up being tested. The front part of the hull will be redone in the future.

Frustrated, the military turned to SOMUA with a proposal to develop a main tank for cavalry. It was envisioned as a three-seater vehicle with a 47 mm caliber gun and 40 mm armor for protection against light anti-tank guns. The average speed should be 30 km/h with a range of 200 km.

In general, the new tank was required to have good mobility on roads, but cross-country ability was not so important.

In April 1935, SOMUA presented the prototype AC 3, the future S35. It took only seven months to detail the project and assemble the prototype tank; taking into account the original design, the time frame was very tight. Tests revealed childhood illnesses, but overall it became clear that the tank was successful. By March 1936, the design was more or less finalized, and the tank was ready for production. On March 25, the AC 3 entered service under the designation AMC 1935 S, although history it entered as SOMUA S35.


S35 prototype on a 20-ton platform with a SOMUA MCG half-track tractor. The tank has an APX 1 turret with a 47 mm SA 34 cannon; mass production of the usual SA 35 gun has not yet begun.

In general, the history of the creation of the S35 is hardly very interesting. The engineers clearly understood what they needed to do, presented a successful implementation and calmly brought it to fruition. Compare with the history of Pz. Kpfw. III, when the Germans redesigned the chassis several times, then gave up and made a new chassis, failed the production plan and redesigned it again.

Maximum casting


Hotchkiss was the first to assemble tanks from large cast parts. However, according to the layout and shape of the hull her tank H 35 turned out to be quite simple and did not use all the casting possibilities.

SOMUA engineers went even further and designed a fully cast body with unusual geometry. It was bolted together from four large parts. The lower part (armored tank) consisted of two longitudinal halves; the turret box and the rear part were placed on it. The seams were sealed against leaks.


The tank without the upper parts of the hull undergoes leak testing. The driver's workplace, ammunition stowage and the layout of the engine and transmission compartment are clearly visible.

Overall, the S35 was a small, narrow tank that fit on a 20-ton platform. To fit in the width, the chassis was retracted as much as possible into the dimensions of the hull, making the armored vehicle a complex shape. The suspension units were attached to the protruding part of the side, over which the upper branch of the caterpillar passed. Inside there is additional space for the fuel tank, oil tank, gearbox rods and other parts. Compare with the bottom of the H 35, which looks more like a simple box.


This section clearly shows the complex geometry of the hull.

The thickness of the main sections of the S35 hull armor was 35–47 mm depending on the angle. This was enough for complete protection against machine guns and 20 mm autocannons. 37-mm guns penetrated armor, but not with every shot.

Thus, most German tanks and armored vehicles in 1940 could not reliably hit the S35. There is a known case where a SOMUA used up all its ammunition and left the battle with 29 marks on its armor without serious damage.

Alleged Czech roots


In many articles you can read that the chassis and gearbox of the S35 were made under the influence of the Czech tank LT vz. 35. It’s amazing how tenacious such a gross misconception turned out to be.

Firstly, there are no similarities in the gearbox between the S35 and LT vz. There is no 35 at all, but here we are getting ahead of ourselves.

Secondly, both tanks were created at approximately the same time in parallel.

And thirdly, even earlier developments by Skoda are similar only in the type of suspension components. In general, the S35 could boast of an original design with unusual solutions.


View of the chassis. Number 28 is a grease nipple for lubricating the track joints.


Track roller with a central flange and early tracks with a pitch of 75 mm. The S35 tracks differed from the typical designs of those years; instead of one long pin, the tracks were held together by two short ones.

In the 30s, the French usually used two types of tracks on tanks. For example, the Char B1 had massive tracks with shoes mounted on two rails. On these rails rolled road wheels with flanges that prevented them from moving off the track. The R 35 had English-type tracks with small, lightweight tracks that had guide ridges.

In terms of design, the S35 took an intermediate position. Its caterpillar was made up of small tracks 360 mm wide with a pitch of 105 mm (75 mm on the first 50 tanks), but they did not have ridges. In the center of the tracks there were recesses along which the flanges of steel road wheels rolled.


Drawing of mounting suspension units. You can clearly see how complex the geometry of the cast body was.

Each side had 9 road wheels with a diameter of 300 mm. The rear one had an independent spring suspension, the rest were combined into two-roller bogies and locked in fours on leaf springs. The first suspension unit was supplemented with a hydraulic shock absorber. Between the second and third bogies there was an oil can for lubricating the track joints. The upper branch lay on two skids and two supporting rollers. The chassis was covered with removable and folding armor plates.

The narrow S35 was prone to rollover, and its low-mounted sloths limited off-road ability. However, on the roads the tank showed its best side. Its suspension distributed the load evenly and provided a very smooth ride. On the improved S40 model, sloths were placed higher, but its production did not have time to begin due to defeat.

Engine and transmission


SOMUA did not have a suitable engine, so for the S35 it bought engine plans from Janvier, Sabin et Cie. Sometimes it is presented as if the engine was developed by a contractor commissioned by SOMUA. Another ridiculous misconception: the company Janvier, Sabin et Cie was closed back in 1928. In essence, SOMUA bought the blueprints for an abandoned development.


S35 engine, view of the clutch and gear guitar of the second power flow drive. The air filters are visible from above.


A tank being assembled at a factory. To the left of the engine are two fuel tanks.

The S35 was equipped with a 8-liter V-shaped 12,7-cylinder gasoline engine. It produced 190 hp. With. at 2 rpm and 000 l. With. at 220 rpm, according to Soviet data, although the French indicate a limit of 2 rpm. Specific power 500 l. s./t cannot be called high, but the high-torque engine and successful transmission gave an average speed of 2 km/h on the roads. The maximum design speed was 300 km/h at 11,3 rpm.

The engine was located on the left side. To the right of it were placed two protected fuel tanks with a total capacity of 410 liters. This was enough for 240 kilometers on roads (for comparison: the cruising range of the Pz. Kpfw. III is only 165 km). Note that the tank did not have any external fuel tanks; they are often passed off as hanging boxes for storing things. An automatic fire extinguishing system consisting of three fire extinguishers was provided.


The gearbox, steering mechanism, drum brakes and cooling system drive were assembled into one compact unit.


Transmission diagram from Italian manual. You can see how the power flows: the lower one through the gearbox, the upper one through the clutch (frizioni di guida). The steering wheel included clutches via a cable system.

The transmission was located behind the engine. It was one of the best developments of its time, so it’s worth talking about it in more detail.

A five-speed gearbox, a dual-flow turning mechanism, a cooling system drive and drum brakes were combined into one unit. The turning mechanism consisted of two differentials and two clutches. The lower one was connected to the engine through the gearbox, and the upper one directly through the clutch. To turn, one of the clutches was engaged, and the upper differential began to rotate, accelerating one axle shaft of the lower differential and slowing down the other.

Thus, each gear had its own turning radius; in addition, the tank could turn unsteadily on the spot.

The design turned out to be elegant in its own way.

The upper differential drive also rotated the cooling system fan, so a separate drive was not required for it. In addition, the fan was located next to the clutches to blow air over them. Like the engine, the transmission was shifted to the left side, and water and oil radiators were placed to the right of it.


Foot brake diagram. The pedal controls the brake servo inside the road wheels.


View of the brakes and final drive.

The driver controlled the tank using a steering wheel similar to a car steering wheel. His turn engaged the appropriate clutch. The tank had two brake systems. The pedal turned on the hydraulic servo drive of the shoe brakes inside the road wheels, this drive took the engine power. The lever tightened the drum brakes on the axle shafts of the lower differential. In essence, it was the lever of a manual oil pump. By switching the distribution mechanism, the driver could block both tracks or just one, so the handbrake made it possible to maintain mobility even if the turning mechanism broke down.


Handbrake diagram. A switch on the dashboard made it possible to brake one of the tracks or both at once.

The S35 engine and transmission were combined into two large blocks, making them easier to dismantle. However, you need to get to them first. The design of early tanks required the removal of the upper hull parts and firewall, which was only possible in an equipped workshop. Six workers could complete a tank overhaul in 23 and a half hours.

Starting with the 51st tank, the design was improved. Now, to replace the engine and transmission, only the upper aft part had to be removed, and the operating time was reduced to 13 hours.

In general, the maintainability of early tanks left much to be desired.

Turret and weapons


In terms of turret, armament and crew composition, the S35 was similar to the later Char D2, so we will limit ourselves to a brief description.

The tank was equipped with an APX 1 CE (chemin élargi) cast turret with electric drive. It was similar to the APX 4 turrets of the D2 and B1 tanks, but with an increased shoulder strap of 1 mm. The thickness of the armor reached 130 mm at the forehead and 56 mm at the inclined sides. The armament consisted of a 45 mm machine gun and a 7,5 mm SA 47 cannon with a 35-caliber barrel. Despite its modest appearance, it was quite a powerful weapon. It could confidently hit any German tank or armored car in any projection, except perhaps the latest StuG III with 32 mm frontal armor. The ammunition stowage for 50 rounds was located on the starboard side.


Interior of the S35 tower. It is clearly visible that it was not so easy for the radio operator to help with reloading, dodging flying cartridges.

For all-round visibility there was a rotating turret with three observation devices: a PPL RX 160 periscope with a viewing angle of 68 degrees, a binocular periscope with an angle of 10 degrees and fourfold magnification, as well as a viewing slit behind the armored shutter with an angle of 114 degrees. If the instruments were damaged, the commander could quickly replace the PPL RX 160 periscope or open the shutter. There were two glass blocks on the sides of the tower, and the shape of the tower prevented them from being hit by frontal fire.

Single tower was the main drawback of the S35.

Firstly, the commander was overloaded with responsibilities, because he had to monitor the battle, give instructions to the crew and fire from a cannon and machine gun.

Secondly, his work was poorly organized. The commander maintained a 360-degree view from the turret. Having discovered the target, he sat lower and began turning the tower. But in this position, the entire forward view was limited by the narrow sight field! In addition, there were no hatches on the roof of the tower. To get a better look around, the commander had to lower the aft hatch, which served as a traveling seat. It turns out that the commander often changed positions in the tower, wasting time.


The Germans didn’t like the tower either, so they often cut off the roof of the observation tower and welded a double hatch. On this tank, the original turret was removed altogether, and a viewing turret from a Pz. was welded on. Kpfw. II.

Another chronic problem with French tanks was radio communications.

The quality of the radio stations was poor, and in addition they were produced in insufficient quantities. Because of this, many S35s never received radios. Fortunately, the enlarged turret shoulder strap allowed the radio operator to help reload the gun, at least somehow relieving the commander. There is a known case when an S35 went into battle with a crew of two without a radio operator.

Summing up


First of all, the S35 was truly a cavalry tank, capable of being in the right place at the right time. A large fuel supply and a reliable chassis made it possible to cover significant distances under its own power at a sufficient average speed.

Weighing 19,5 tons, SOMUA passed over most bridges and was easily transported on 20-ton flatbeds. The chassis provided a very smooth ride on roads, but off-road the tank performed mediocrely, which was not critical for cavalry.


S35 in ferry training, 2 December 1939.

The S35 featured a distinctive but quite advanced chassis for its time. Suffice it to say that it was the second tank in the world with a dual-flow turning mechanism.

However, we had to pay a lot for the automatic fire extinguishing system, servo-driven brakes, shock absorbers, dual-flow transmission and other technical delights. SOMUA turned out to be a very expensive tank, almost five times more expensive than the R 35, and its production lagged behind military needs.

The S35's design was advanced but not overly complex. Unlike the Germans, French engineers were quickly able to find a successful compromise. For example, on Pz. Kpfw. III tried to install a three-radius, two-thread turning mechanism, but could not get it to work properly and returned to a single-thread one. The French installed a single-radius mechanism with simple control through a system of cables. And it worked well!


Reconstruction of the appearance of the S40 with a two-seat FCM turret. Note the improved chassis with raised idlers.

Overall, the S35 turned out to be a fairly balanced tank. Its main advantage was the absence of pronounced shortcomings: good mobility, sufficient armor and good, but not record-breaking, weapons.

However, the picture is spoiled by an unsuccessful single tower. In 1942, FCM engineers, secretly from the Germans, designed a two-seat turret for the S35 on a 1 mm chase with a polycom and a sunroof. This work shows that the problem was in the minds of the military, but the chassis itself made it possible to arm the tank more successfully.

Sources:
Technical description of the tank, May 1938 (Notice descriptive du char 1935 S).
Manual for driving and maintaining a tank, November 1938 (Notice de conduite et d'entretien du char 1935 S).
Italian manual, September 1941 (Istruzione sulla condotta e sulla manutenzione del carro armato SOMUA).
Steven J. Zaloga. Panzer III vs SOMUA S 35: Belgium 1940 – Osprey Publishing (Duel series, no. 63).
Pascal Danjou. Trackstory n. 1: SOMUA S 35 – Editions Du Barbotin
Yuri Pasholok. The best French tank of the pre-war period (warspot.ru).
65 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. +4
    16 March 2024 05: 47
    The technical characteristics are wonderful, but how did this tank perform in battle?
    1. -2
      16 March 2024 11: 20
      didn’t show it in any way, the weak point in the design was the bolted connections of the tank’s hull; if a shell hit the joint of the upper and lower parts of the hull, it would crack like a nut, as the Germans wrote after testing a captured tank by shelling at their training ground
      1. +2
        16 March 2024 12: 59
        Firstly, I would really like to see the report on these very tests, preferably with photographs. Secondly, try to look for photos of these very “cracked like a nut” SOMUA. You will find as many as you like with ordinary holes and torn parts, but this is not what we are talking about.

        Just in case, I note that all German production tanks in 1940 were assembled from welded parts with bolts.
        1. -1
          16 March 2024 16: 22
          the article is not bad, I don’t argue, but at least watch a documentary about tanks, even “Wings of Russia” or “in the commander’s room” with Nicholas Moran, there are two episodes about this miracle of French tank building, then the article was more complete and interesting
          1. -1
            19 March 2024 20: 55
            Are you seriously proposing to write an article based on some documentaries?
    2. +6
      16 March 2024 12: 47
      A separate article needs to be written about combat use, especially since the S 35 fought in various roles from 1940 to 1945. It is significant that, unlike other massive French trophies, the Germans did not convert SOMUA into self-propelled guns and used them as tanks and tractors.
      1. 0
        16 March 2024 16: 17
        the author seems to have forgotten to mention the “small feature” of this tank, which explains why the Germans themselves did not use the captured S-35s, but left them for the collaborators. - When an armor-piercing projectile hits a tank (even if it doesn’t penetrate the armor!) a shock wave (metal stress wave) spreads across its hull. This caused the bolts holding the cast parts of the hull to be cut off like a razor! And the “parts” were leaving...
        To explain why a tank with such a “feature” either did not undergo field fire before being put into service, or they thought that in battle it would be easy to jump out of the tank and quickly replace the cut bolts, can only be explained by the general mess that was happening with weapons in pre-war France !
        1. -1
          19 March 2024 20: 55
          why didn’t the Germans themselves use captured S-35s?

          They used captured S 35s.

          When an armor-piercing projectile hits a tank (even if it does not penetrate the armor!) a shock wave (metal stress wave) spreads across its hull. This caused the bolts holding the cast parts of the hull to be cut off like a razor! And the “parts” were leaving...

          I have already answered this nonsense. You didn't provide a single photo. But there are photographs after internal explosions, where in some cases only the aft part was torn off, and in others only the hatches were demolished. And for some reason the bolts, like plasticine, did not warm up.
      2. 0
        17 March 2024 11: 08
        Thank you for the article, it would be very interesting about combat use.
  3. +3
    16 March 2024 05: 51
    Looking at French technology, not only military technology, sometimes it seems that the desire to show off was stronger than a rational approach.
    1. +5
      16 March 2024 06: 21
      Sometimes something useful came out of their show off; the principle of the Citroen gearbox turned out to be so successful that nothing new has yet been invented. And yes, great originals.
    2. 0
      16 March 2024 10: 19
      Quote: Alexey 1970
      Looking at French technology, not only military technology, sometimes it seems that the desire to show off was stronger than a rational approach.

      And even now the Franks consider Leclerc better than the Americans and British, but they are not visible in battle, Makaronin is afraid to even send them to Ukraine.
    3. 0
      16 March 2024 22: 04
      the desire to show off was stronger than the rational approach.

      good French engineers are also entertainers
    4. 0
      17 March 2024 11: 03
      Our Jacobs and SBs have a French heart*.

      * - M-100 engine (on the basis of which the M-103, M-104, VK-105, 106, 107 were created) is a licensed copy of the French Hispano-Suiza 12Y.
  4. +8
    16 March 2024 06: 58
    A good article, just for military review.
  5. +1
    16 March 2024 07: 06
    The chassis provided a very smooth ride on roads, however The tank performed mediocre off-road, which was not critical for the cavalry.

    masterpiece! A tank that can only drive on roads, but this is not critical because cavalry can also only drive on roads?
    1. -1
      16 March 2024 10: 22
      Quote: Amateur
      A tank that can only drive on roads, but this is not critical because cavalry can also only drive on roads?

      Cavalry passes through forests and bolts, but Leclercs only pass along asphalt. I saw them in Abidjan when they were released against unarmed people.
      1. +1
        17 March 2024 10: 17
        Quote: carpenter
        but Leclercs, only on asphalt.

        Even before 2014, they took part in exercises near Odessa and nothing, they drove around the fields quite normally...
    2. +3
      16 March 2024 13: 04
      First of all, where did you get the idea that SOMUA could only travel on roads? Secondly, for cavalry cross-country ability was really not so critical based on the tasks. A significant part of the S 35 was used to cover the deployment of defenses in Belgium, that is, the cavalrymen rode the farthest to give the Germans a counter battle. This is not about crawling slowly and surely through the mud; fast transfers over long distances rely on the road network.
  6. +3
    16 March 2024 07: 19
    And why not a word about combat use?
  7. +4
    16 March 2024 07: 56
    In 1942, FCM engineers, secretly from the Germans, designed a two-seat turret for the S35 on a 1 mm chase with a polycom and a sunroof
    And even this would not have saved the project. For optimal operation, the turret of a tank of that time would have required three people.
    1. +1
      16 March 2024 12: 30
      FCM followed suit and prepared a project for a three-seat tower. I already mentioned it in the article about single towers and decided not to repeat it.
  8. 0
    16 March 2024 08: 34
    The engine was located on the left side. To the right of it were placed two protected fuel tanks... And in the photo it is indicated on the contrary, the engine is on the right, the tanks are on the left!
  9. +3
    16 March 2024 09: 18
    French engineers had interesting ideas.
    I think that if it were not for the advent of the socialists, who staged formal sabotage in the military industry before the coming war, by 1940 France could have had its own universal machine, devoid of the disadvantages associated with stinginess. Decent armor casting, a 75-mm cannon, a good transmission and a reliable suspension - everything existed on their armored vehicles, but to their misfortune the French - separately. And they did not listen to their “Guderian” - then Colonel De Gaulle - and did not create large tank formations.
    1. 0
      16 March 2024 10: 53
      Quote: Victor Leningradets
      They did not listen to De Gaulle and did not create large tank formations
      Yes, they didn’t need any de Gaulle along with his tank formations. There was the Maginot Line, they were going to sit behind it, that was their main military doctrine
      1. 0
        16 March 2024 13: 52
        There was the Maginot Line, they were going to sit behind it, that was their main military doctrine

        Your argument on this topic was torn to smithereens in the comments under the article about single-occupancy French towers. This is the third time in my memory that you are starting to play the same record.

        And this is under the article about SOMUA. Look on the map where the S 35 ended up as part of the DLM, and where the Maginot Line was.
        1. -1
          16 March 2024 19: 06
          Quote from: geraet4501
          Your argument on this topic was torn to smithereens in the comments under the article about single-occupancy French towers
          I just didn't pay attention to the so-called. "author" and "expert" who wrote this excerpt and my only regret is that I spent time reading and commenting. It was once a good idea to indicate the author at the very beginning of the article
          1. -2
            19 March 2024 20: 56
            But the commentator is immediately visible. How are you getting on with mastering the map?
    2. 0
      16 March 2024 13: 13
      De Gaulle is a brand. As far as I remember, in France, General Doumenc was the first to propose large tank formations in 1927-28.

      http://sam40.fr/la-division-doumenc-1927-precurseur-de-la-cooperation-organique-interarmes/

      and large tank formations were not created.

      Just three DLMs are French tank divisions. By the beginning of WWII, only three states in the world had similar formations: France, the USSR and Germany.
      1. +3
        16 March 2024 20: 26
        Dmitry Zaitsev:
        De Gaulle is a brand. As far as I remember, in France, General Doumenc was the first to propose large tank formations in 1927-28.

        Well, here, of course, the political factor prevails. However, in 1927-1929. creating mechanized troops from infantry tanks is a so-so idea. In our country, similar ideas were promoted by M.N. Tukhachevsky, albeit based on wedges.
        In reality, mechanized troops with the appropriate outfit of forces, deployment strategy and battle tactics were nevertheless developed by the Germans. In 1939, our mechanized troops were suitable (and even then only to a limited extent!) for carrying out marches and occupation activities against a frankly powerless enemy. Finnish campaign 1939-1940 showed clearly that we do not have COMBAT mechanized formations. And the hysteria of 1940 regarding the emergency formation of mechanized corps in fact simply deprived our rifle divisions of tank support. As a result, instead of forming four or five combat-ready mechanized corps based on the BT-7, BT-7M and T-34, we received a bunch of motley formations under this brand, and even with a sinker in the form of KV tanks. Real tank and mechanized formations appeared in the Red Army only in 1943 as a result of strict selection and constant work on mistakes.
        1. -1
          19 March 2024 21: 01
          In reality, mechanized troops with the appropriate outfit of forces, deployment strategy and battle tactics were nevertheless developed by the Germans.


          The Germans took a sensible approach to their creation, understanding that a tank division was not about tanks, but about armored personnel carriers, tractors, fuel and ammunition carriers, etc. In principle, from a technical point of view, the French did a good job. They created the successful AMD 35 armored reconnaissance vehicle, a quite decent S 35 tank, the Lorraine tracked transporter and armored personnel carriers based on it, mobile 47-mm anti-tank guns, etc. The problem is that all this equipment was produced in extremely insufficient quantities. And so on paper their tank division looked at the level of the German one.

          I won’t speak for the Soviet troops, it’s not my topic.
  10. -1
    16 March 2024 10: 06
    Damn, I liked it Yes A balanced description without showing off...
    Paddling pools are paddling pools. request What kind of language do they have, what is their attitude towards what they create. Their aviation is unique, their tanks have their own flair. I’m silent about the fleet - “Richelieu” is generally my favorite among battleships...
    They're guards like that, don't you think... They're just worthless warriors lol request
    Plus to the author for the material hi
    1. +7
      16 March 2024 10: 45
      They're just lousy warriors

      Not good, Andrey Nikolaevich!
      These bad warriors entered Moscow in 1812, unlike the proud Balkenkreuzers. And in 1916 they fought to the death at Verdun no worse than at Stalingrad. Go to Duamont if you have the opportunity. But by 1939, they had become corrupted by “humanistic ideas.”
      And yet, the potential enemy should not be underestimated.
      1. 0
        16 March 2024 10: 55
        Quote: Victor Leningradets
        These bad warriors entered Moscow in 1812
        Here the saying that immediately comes to mind is that a herd of rams controlled by a lion will always defeat a herd of lions controlled by a ram wink
        1. +5
          16 March 2024 11: 11
          You see, Michel, in 1812, Napoleon and his marshals led a trained and battle-hardened army to Moscow - created by the Great French Revolution. And these were not sheep. They were opposed by troops created a century ago, who managed to drink the cup of defeat in this war, but managed to draw the right conclusions and prepare. You can’t classify them as sheep either.
          The Wehrmacht cannot be classified as sheep, but the adventurous and largely inconsistent policies of the Nazi elite led the country to disaster. Unfortunately, at the beginning of the war, the Red Army did not show its best side, but despite the monstrous mistakes in preparing for the war and the massive incompetence of the command staff, it survived. And no matter how much anyone wants it, these are also not sheep or lions, but our Soviet people who created a miracle.
          1. +1
            16 March 2024 19: 09
            Quote: Victor Leningradets
            And they weren't sheep
            Of course, I don't consider the French army to be sheep, but they had Napoleon. And could this army of “non-rams” have fought so successfully without him? wink
            1. +1
              17 March 2024 00: 54
              And before Napoleon, revolutionary France as a whole successfully defeated European armies. And imperial France was (on average, there were, of course, periods of decline) one of the two strongest world powers along with Spain (later replaced by Britain), which it repeatedly proved on the battlefield.
        2. +2
          17 March 2024 00: 49
          Throughout history, these “rams” fought, and fought very honorably, with the Romans, Arabs, Spaniards, British, Prussians, Germans (WWII), etc. In addition to Napoleon, there was Louis XIV, who fought on equal terms with most of Europe, and many others. The myth of the cowardly frogmen was formed after WWII, and was finally consolidated after their refusal to participate in the US Iraq War.
          1. +1
            17 March 2024 04: 38
            Quote: Kmon
            fought very honorably with the Romans
            Did you accidentally mix up the eras?
            1. 0
              17 March 2024 12: 45
              I thought the Gauls were the ancestors of the French. I looked at the information - it seems like the scientific consensus is that this is not so.
      2. +5
        16 March 2024 11: 21
        On the forum, it has become a sign of good manners to disparage everything “not ours,” be it weapons, science, politics, etc. And about “drunk the budget,” they have a mandatory phrase. Like in fourth grade.
      3. 0
        16 March 2024 13: 22
        So I mean WWII wink
        But by 1939, they had become corrupted by “humanistic ideas.”

        Just like pasta. History, it’s like that, it’s indicative. Only the last 100-150 years. Single won or heroic battles are not indicative of a lost war.
      4. +2
        16 March 2024 13: 48
        I’m sure the namesake was referring specifically to the WWII period
  11. +5
    16 March 2024 10: 55
    1) SOMUA S35.
    2) He’s shot down.
    3) The Germans got their money pretty well
  12. +5
    16 March 2024 11: 18
    Overall a good article, although the author made a slight mistake at the finish line.
    However, the picture is spoiled by an unsuccessful single tower. In 1942, FCM engineers, secretly from the Germans, designed a two-seat turret for the S35 on a 1 mm chase with a polycom and a sunroof. This work shows that the problem was in the minds of the military, but the chassis itself made it possible to arm the tank more successfully.

    The FCM welded turret was developed back in 1941, and there was no secret in the development. The Paris protocols of May 1941 on expanding cooperation between Germany and Vichy France included an agreement to produce an improved version of the S40 using a new welded FCM turret. In February 1942, following Japan's entry into the war, Vichy was allowed to enter into a preliminary agreement to build 250 improved S40 tanks for the Japanese Army. However, after the Allied landings in November 1942, the Germans occupied Vichy and all French tank development ceased.
    1. 0
      16 March 2024 12: 28
      You're talking about the wrong tower. The welded single turret for the S40 was designed by ARL. Later, in the summer of 1942, designs for two- and three-man towers were secretly made by FCM. This is just about them.
      1. +3
        16 March 2024 13: 33
        You're talking about the wrong tower.

        I'm talking about that tower. Not about the ARL 2C, but about the three-seat welded FCM, which was designed quite legally.
        And that tank project, which is “secret”, was developed in a secret design bureau created by the Vichy secret service CDM (Camouflage du Matériel / Equipment Camouflage) from specialists AMX (Atelier de Construction Mécanique d'Issy-Les-Moulineaux), ARL (Arsenal de Rueil) and Somua and was called SARL 42 - Somua Arsenal de Rueil.
        1. -3
          16 March 2024 13: 49
          Pasholok wrote that FCM secretly developed two- and three-man turrets in the summer of 1942. Where can I find out another version of events?
          1. +4
            16 March 2024 14: 31
            Series of articles in the magazine Guerre, blindés & matériel (88-90). Well, in the French military archives, of course.
            1. -1
              19 March 2024 21: 04
              I don’t have these releases; your interpretation differs from the one given by the respected Deddem. In total, there are already three versions for FCM towers. Do you have these magazines in electronic form?
  13. +2
    16 March 2024 13: 45
    Although the Somua35 was a good tank, it was misused. But the French army lacked everything else to be at the level of Germany, such as effective anti-tank guns, anti-aircraft guns, few fighters, few bombers, I don’t know if they had dive fighter-bombers. I don't know if they had reconnaissance companies or battalions as effective as the German ones.
    1. 0
      16 March 2024 22: 17
      Yes, he was not good. What is he good at? It would have been more correct to write this: Although Somua was a bad tank, it was used incorrectly.
      1. -1
        19 March 2024 21: 05
        Yes, he was not good. What is he good at?

        A good chassis with progressive solutions. Against the backdrop of the AMC 35 falling apart as it drove, it looked great.
  14. 0
    16 March 2024 16: 23
    https://youtu.be/-_Ht8b-3blk?feature=shared интересней про этот танк рассказано
  15. 0
    16 March 2024 16: 32
    https://youtu.be/XGKdBZkgf4w?feature=shared
  16. -2
    16 March 2024 16: 53
    History has already given him an assessment - even for free - even to all sorts of Romanians and Finns - and so it turned out that he was not needed
  17. +1
    16 March 2024 17: 26
    Compared to this, the T34 was simply all-seeing.
  18. +2
    16 March 2024 22: 23
    In general, French tanks and planes from the Second World War are very strange. Especially tanks. It seems that they did not test them at all in any exercises. The single-man tower itself is an unsuccessful solution in principle, but they also managed to make an unsuccessful single-man tower.
  19. +2
    17 March 2024 09: 38
    Quote: swnvaleria
    the author seems to have forgotten to mention the “small feature” of this tank, which explains why the Germans themselves did not use the captured S-35s, but left them for the collaborators. - When an armor-piercing projectile hits a tank (even if it doesn’t penetrate the armor!) a shock wave (metal stress wave) spreads across its hull. This caused the bolts holding the cast parts of the hull to be cut off like a razor! And the “parts” were leaving...
    To explain why a tank with such a “feature” either did not undergo field fire before being put into service, or they thought that in battle it would be easy to jump out of the tank and quickly replace the cut bolts, can only be explained by the general mess that was happening with weapons in pre-war France !


    Personally, I know of 1 (one) photograph of such a lesion on Saumua.

    Something tells me that this is from the same steppe as the “doomed” T-64/72/80, whose turret is torn off with any hit, and the “invulnerable” Abrams and Leopards...
  20. +2
    17 March 2024 09: 43
    Quote: Dekabrist
    Series of articles in the magazine Guerre, blindés & matériel (88-90). Well, in the French military archives, of course.


    I have these magazines.
    The aforementioned two- and three-seat turrets were developed by the Vichyists in 1941/1942 (as for legality, this is an open question, otherwise why would they hide both S40 prototypes in sheds).
    The basis for them was the single-seat FCM turret for the B.1bis, developed in the spring-summer of 1940.
  21. +2
    17 March 2024 09: 46
    Quote: Dutchman Michel
    Quote: Kmon
    fought very honorably with the Romans
    Did you accidentally mix up the eras?


    We are talking, apparently, about Italians.
    They were unable to capture the border post near Menton, and they returned twice as many prisoners as were officially declared missing and frostbitten (in June!!).
    1. +1
      17 March 2024 10: 48
      It seems to me that we are talking about the wars of the Romans against the Gauls, then we also talk about the Arabs, here apparently we are talking about the Franks against the Arabs in Western Europe (Reconquista) and the French against the Arabs during the Crusades.
  22. +2
    17 March 2024 09: 52
    Quote: Andrey Nikolaev_4
    And why not a word about combat use?


    And this is necessary to briefly retell the contents of three rather large volumes about the combat path of three “light” mechanized cavalry divisions (which had more tanks than the RGK tank division), and the scraps of the fourth division, which were thrown into battle in the best style of 1940-1941 - "as soon as it's ready."
    1. +1
      17 March 2024 10: 45
      Tell me, judging by the comments, you understand the topic - it would be interesting to read both about the combat path of this tank and about the Char B1. Yes
  23. +1
    17 March 2024 21: 22
    Tank b/n M866 (13th Dragoon Regiment), lost from a direct hit by a large-caliber shell.
    The internal explosion tore off the side door and the commander's cupola.
    For some reason the body did not come apart at the seams.