Enemies of the people: lovers of formations

Today’s conversation would be more appropriate for a video channel, because there is a desire to simply talk about a certain topic so that it is clear what you want to convey to the listener. But we don’t really like to listen, so we’ll stay in the same format.

In general, many things in our country are not going as we would like. The main problem, of course, is that any level of criticism towards the Ministry of Defense has been equated to discredit and fake news. I read with my own eyes the explanation of Roskomnadzor, which clearly stated in black and white: everything that is not voiced by the Ministry of Defense is a fake and discredits the army with all that it implies. And the amendment to the law regarding the confiscation of property from those who so want to criticize was the icing on the cake.

I don’t know how many more honest, correct and responsible people will be trampled and thrown out of life, in the name of the triumph of ideas that bring nothing to our country. And impunity, and complete impunity, leads to more and more crimes being committed.

What kind of crimes? In our case, this is the formation of personnel in open areas and thus providing the enemy with the opportunity to strike. This is a crime, especially if, as in one case, the personnel stood for an hour and a half and waited until a very important general deigned to arrive. The persona did not arrive, but “Hymars” did.

And if there was only one such case...

But first, I generally wanted to talk to you about such a phenomenon as construction in general. Remind yourself, too, how much time is wasted on this anachronism and how “useful” these constructions are. And in order to refresh my memory, first of all, I turned to the website of the Ministry of Defense. There, however, a surprise awaited me: in accordance with the daily routine of conscripts, the morning inspection became an evening inspection. The link is at the end of the article, for those who were also surprised.

But, having taken on a four-year-old conscript soldier as a consultant, we managed to draw up the following schedule, where we entered the formations:

06.50 Rise of deputy platoon commanders
07.00-07.10 Rise of personnel
Formation, 5 minutes for the mandrel, and then another
Building
07.10-08.00 Morning physical exercises
08.00-08.30 Morning toilet, making beds
Building
08.30-08.50 Breakfast
Building
08.50-09.00 Raising the State Flag of the Russian Federation. Divorce for classes
09.00-13.50 Training sessions in combat training subjects. Maintenance of weapons and military equipment
Building
13.50-14.10 Change of work clothes, shine shoes, wash hands
Building
14.10-14.40 LUNCH
Building
14.40-15.40 Afternoon rest
Building
15.40-16.30 Training sessions in combat training subjects
Building
16.40-18.30 Physical training
18.40-19.20 Educational work, summing up
Building
19.20-19.30 Shoe cleaning, hand washing
Building
19.30-20.00 DINNER
Building
20.00-21.00 Time for personal needs
21.00-21.40 Watching TV information programs
Building
21.40-21.55 Evening walk
Building
21.55-22.10 Physical examination, physical examination
22.10-22.30 Evening verification
22.20-23.00 Evening toilet
23.00 lights out

In total, there can be up to 20 formations per day with mandatory personnel checks. If with divorce, evening verification and inspection, as well as speech interpretation - from 1,5 to 2,5 hours a day. 1/10 of the whole day.

In general, it came flooding back, I remembered how infuriating it was at one time, when this “Company, formation in three minutes” was heard with or without reason (well, from our point of view), and then it turned out that everything was for the sake of the foreman to say that We have 15 minutes of free time. And we spent half of it, because while we were building, while we were counting, while we were reporting...

Just for fun, but in that very good-for-nothing (according to some of our “experts”) Bundeswehr, formations... two!

The daily routine of a Bundeswehr soldier looks like this:
5.00 Wake up, morning toilet.
6.10-6.50 BREAKFAST
7.00 Formation. Divorce for classes or work, reports.
7.30-11.50 Theoretical classes, technical training, physical training
12.00-12.50 LUNCH
13.00 Formation. Divorce for classes
13.15-17.00 Practical work, shooting, maintenance of equipment and weapons.
17.00 End of work day

Here, of course, it should be noted that there are no conscripts in the Bundeswehr. There are voluntary employees and there are contract workers. There are practically no differences between them, except for benefits and salaries with compensation. But both of them, after 17 o’clock, go home, to the barracks, rocking chairs, bars. But if necessary, they can be detained “on duty.”

Probably because the Germans don’t spend two hours a day on formations, their Bundeswehr is no good for anything.

Battle Regulations

Next, the Charters, Combat and Drill, should have appeared before our eyes, on which, like on two pillars (okay, the third is the Guard), the well-being of our army is based.

But what I can see in my eyes is the footage of the Haymars arriving at ours. And they will stand for a long time simply because some amount of conscience is still left and I will not be able to simply turn away from the fact that the soldiers were exposed to attack. For now, at least.

Well, we have to admit that some gentlemen officers do not understand the difference between combat and combat regulations. And the demonstration of this began even when the advisers began to come in and then there were complaints from the Corps that drill training and appearance had become the main thing.

Appearance and hygiene – I agree, it’s important. Especially hygiene. This is a guarantee of health and hygiene must be taken care of even on the front line. This means there must be water in sufficient quantities, the possibility of heating it, and so on. Something that, in fact, does not exist even now. But there are demands from headquarters representatives in full.

But these are minor things. Not small things, but compared to the topic - not so terrible.

Why someone decided that in combat conditions there is a place for drill regulations, I still don’t understand. Due to the fact that the SVO, and not the war, they did not shoot less. And we should have forgotten about the drill regulations on February 24.02.2022, XNUMX. Completely. And be guided by the points of the combat manual, which, I note, is one of the best documents of this plan in the world. Hard-won and soaked in blood, our Charter is very good if it is correctly applied and understood.

And even with a magnifying glass, even with a magnifying glass, in the combat regulations you will not find these peacetime nonsense: formations, reviews, divorces, briefings and so on. “Other things” include awards. Of course, in semi-fiction films you can see anything, but in a real war, awards are usually held in the rear. But not on the front line.

Here you need to understand very clearly, it is a pity that some do not understand that the “front line” is not the line of trenches behind which the enemy. The front line is the zone affected by enemy weapons. There are short-range weapons (snipers, artillery, aviation, drones-kamikaze), and there is a longer-range one (the same drones, cruise missiles, tactical ballistic missiles, MLRS, glide bombs with correction). And organizing a show at the front line with formations, and even more so, for many hours, in anticipation of the arrival of the “big bosses” is, first of all, a sign of complete service inadequacy of the commander who gave the order for the formation.

Such a commander must first of all be arrested, tried, and demoted. With the deprivation of all awards, deserved and undeserved, because such a commander who does not care about his personnel is not a commander, he is a traitor. This is the enemy's minion. And it doesn’t matter from what motives such an officer acts, the desire to curry favor with his superiors or something else, it is important that he, the officer, the boss, is simply obliged to know Articles 42, 44 and 75 of the Internal Service Charter (link at the end of the article, with website of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation). But, apparently, knowledge of these articles is not for everyone.

And here the question is not even about the outright stupidity of the officers giving clearly sabotage orders. In general, these commanders should have been dealt with by the relevant authorities long ago for a complete check on their compliance with the position they hold and their loyalty to Russia. You know, it looks like they're working a little on the wrong side.

The question here is that technology has reached a certain level of development, and something needs to be done about this too.

The simplest example: my camera. What does the camera have to do with it, you ask? But here’s what: not the most sophisticated and modern (okay, one of the) processor provides recognition and separation of shooting objects. A camera distinguishes a person from an animal or bird, and a car from a motorcycle. Very simple programming of three taps on the screen gives the setting: focus and track only motorcycles. And that’s it, the system will ignore cars and only capture motorcycles. Very useful at auto shows.

A copter hanging at an altitude of 300-400 meters is neither visible nor audible. We checked. It hangs there in economy mode and simply sends the picture to the operator. And as soon as changes occur in it, objects such as people are added - that’s it, a signal goes and targets are captured. And the transfer of coordinates to artillerymen, who send something fast and deadly to these coordinates.

And copters hang in those skies all the time. The other side has so many of them that they can afford it. They hang and watch. And, as practice shows, not without results. For the sake of fairness, we note that our drone pilots are achieving no less success, but I am sure that many will agree with me, it would be ideal for the game to go to one goal. In reality, not in reports.

Maybe in some ways our combat regulations are not ideal, but all 136 pages of the unclassified part were written by far from fools. On the contrary, they were written by smart people who defeated their enemy. Those who received awards were not for their ability to compliment their superiors, but for real actions on the battlefield.

There should be no regulations on the front line other than combat regulations. For everyone else, there is a territory in the rear where it is safe for the lives of soldiers to implement the points of the Charter and stroke their pride. But again, without going to extremes, so that it doesn’t happen, as in the brilliant work of Jaroslav Hasek “The Adventures of the Good Soldier Schweik.”

“...Then the general, who had fallen into childhood, demanded that Captain Sagner demonstrate how the soldiers carry out the command: “Pay off the first or second!” And then it rang out:
- First-second, first-second, first-second...

The general loved it terribly. At home he had two orderlies. He lined them up in front of him, and they shouted:
- First-second, first-second.

There were a great many such generals in Austria.”

Everything is good when in moderation. In our case, the measure is the striking distance of the enemy’s weapon. Staging a show with formations in open areas, under the cameras of enemy drones and the sights of their own missiles, is a war crime. And there simply cannot be another interpretation, to my great regret.

Comments

[My address]

The article is really about a painful issue... How lucky I am that my senior comrades, commanders and life taught me that the most important thing is people. And that if you are a boss or commander, then first of all you are responsible for both the assigned work and the people.

[qQQQ]

Quote: My address

The article is really about a painful issue...

The problem is that drill training is an atavism that simply destroys
combat training. Let me explain, the time spent on step training was taken away from combat training. In modern combat, formation is the death of drugs. It is very convenient for commanders of different levels to hide their professional incompetence behind the drill, there is no need for intelligence at all, he appointed a sergeant and the soldiers march in a circle, as if they were on duty, while they themselves can relax somewhere in the headquarters, private office. When the inspector arrives, what is the first thing they do? They lined up and marched, and then lunch arrived. The only plus of stepping (although this is rather a minus) completely discourages brains and initiative; in the ranks, initiative is punishable. In my opinion, drill, as a separate activity, should be prohibited at the legislative level. Of course, the formation looks beautiful at the parade, only the better they march, the worse they fight for the reason that the time taken from the battlefield cannot improve the conduct of this very battle, and no one has canceled all the disadvantages such as rejection of initiative, blind obedience to orders.

[Neo-9947]

Quote: qqqq

The problem is that drill training is an atavism

And I remember here everything went crazy, like at a parade in Lithuania, a crowd of Americans in military uniform walked at a loitering pace. But ours mint it like they do!
And how does this and this fit together?
Combat combat is one of the staples, so to speak, of the traditions of the army.
Do you think it's time for revolutionary change? But the army does not like revolutions or sudden movements in general. The army is a completely conservative organization, where the last officer took off his cap with a red star only in the 21st century. And that was due to transfer to the reserve.

And so yes. It's time, it's time to change this, to move away from this drill.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

To begin with, we need clear distinctions between the charters, norms and rules of peacetime and wartime.
And the title of the article is gorgeous, an “A+”!

[Adrey]

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

First we need clear boundaries charters, norms and rules in peacetime and war.

Don’t you think that there is a big catch hidden in this message of yours?
Those. According to the “rules and regulations of peacetime,” the army marches, cleans combat boots, arranges pillows and snowdrifts in “squares,” sweeps the parade ground with crowbars, and actively prepares for parades and biathlons in which it participates.
And in “wartime” he begins to live according to the “rules and regulations of wartime”, studies (or suddenly already know how?) shoot, march, take the initiative, i.e. fight?
Maybe we shouldn’t breed schizophrenia? And let people fulfill their direct responsibilities - they know how to fight, not march.

[qQQQ]

Quote: Adrey

Maybe we shouldn’t breed schizophrenia? And let people fulfill their direct responsibilities - they know how to fight, not march.

Very correct argument.

[alex-defensor]

Quote: Adrey

Maybe we shouldn’t breed schizophrenia? And let people fulfill their direct responsibilities - they know how to fight, not march.

It seems to me that everything is simple, for parades on Red Square it is necessary to create special marching troops, assign to them equipment with dummies of missiles and machine guns with a sawed-off firing pin... and let our senators, governors and other ATORs look at these troops at parades from the movzalei (covered plywood) and rejoice like children.
But real modern troops do not need such “happiness”.

[qQQQ]

Quote: Neo-9947

Combat combat is one of the staples, so to speak, of the traditions of the army.

When a tradition kills an army, it can abandon it. It’s not such a tradition to wear down your legs without any purpose to the detriment of combat readiness. Combat formation arose during the times of fighting in close formation, when victory in battle practically depended on this very formation. After the advent of rifled, and especially rapid-fire (machine gun) weapons, the formation turned into a grave for a soldier. For lovers of traditions, there is the Kremlin regiment, where they walk and dance, simply and with weapons. Let them hold it together and support it.

[alebdun2000]

I agree, for the show, hire tall, slender clowns with polished boots and let them entertain the generals and the crowd of onlookers

[Ksyusha Oleneva]

The stars are already returning. They could not live without the legacy of the damned as communists.

[Glory1974]

drill training is an atavism that simply destroys
combat training. Let me explain, the time spent on step training was taken from combat training.

To be fair, in the drill regulations, in addition to stepping, the actions of a serviceman in battle, movements on the battlefield, and actions on vehicles are prescribed. Steps there are 2 (two) points. This is a question about commanders - officers. What do they want from the personnel, what do they teach. So, the training schedule for drill is 2 hours a month maximum.
You can overwhelm the personnel by using chemical warfare protection, putting on gas masks, or you can carry out physical training in such a way that people will not have any strength left for anything else. But if you have to run physical training yourself, then drill is the easiest way. Here is the answer.

[qQQQ]

Quote: glory1974

Steps there are 2 (two) points. This is a question about commanders - officers.

This is the trick. As long as there is a loophole to replace real training, where all the commander’s nonsense will spill out, with something like combat training, it will always be the case that these 2 points will replace all the others from all the regulations combined. That is why radical reforms are needed, i.e. Drill duty should be abolished at the legislative level. It is very convenient for everyone: you have something to show, you don’t have to think, knock the crap out of your subordinates’ heads, etc. If you really feel numb, then there is time to go to the canteen, as many as three times a day.

[Glory1974]

The trick is that real training can be replaced even by tactical training in the field. Even leading fighters into a training attack, but the output will be zero.
Therefore, canceling the drill is pointless. We need to improve the entire training system. Bans have never solved a single problem.

[qQQQ]

Quote: glory1974

The trick is that real training can be replaced even by tactical training in the field.

Of course it’s possible, but it will be a little more difficult to do, and some kind of preparation will have to be done, at least in the form of a note, where all the nonsense will come out. Combat work allows you to simply kill time without hiding anything. I believe that such things need to be responded to step by step: one thing gets in the way, they remove it, another appears and it goes there too. Everything will not work out right away, time and resources will only be wasted, and circumstances not taken into account in the original plan will always emerge, which will nullify any undertaking. To summarize: take small steps towards your goal.

[Glory1974]

but it will be a little more difficult to do this, and some kind of preparation will have to be done, at least in the form of a summary, where all the nonsense will come out.

In the field, no one controls you at all. You can even sunbathe in the sun, no one will see. This is often what they do.
You only see the drill, but the problem is much deeper. Read Makarenko, a famous teacher. He used drill training in orphanages to improve children's discipline, organization, and responsibility. And everything worked out great for him.
The problem is not with the drill. It is included in the training program for a couple of hours a month. If it is not in the class schedule, who forces it to be taught? What does this have to do with the legal ban? We had a drill in our special forces detachment, but it didn’t bother anyone, no one forced us to march from morning to evening.

[qQQQ]

Quote: glory1974

We had a drill in our special forces detachment, but it didn’t bother anyone, no one forced us to march from morning to evening.

And in our military air defense (Shilka) it’s very good. You had a drill, but why? Did you really know how to do everything and know how to kill time doing something that no one needed in battle? We achieved the most decisive victories with an army that could not march and almost always lost very badly in the initial stages. Maybe because they were doing nonsense and not combat training? Ban it by law, so that there is no desire to hide one’s incompetence behind a beautiful system. As an example, within 1.5 years of service, a soldier rose to the rank of sergeant major, sang very well, and the unit commander (paratrooper, Afghan) loved it very much. And how can we deal with this without prohibition?

[Glory1974]

You had a drill, but why?

approach and departure to the boss, changing lanes, actions on equipment: boarding and disembarking, actions with weapons: transferring the machine gun from the position behind the back to the chest and back.
In general, basic things that a soldier should know. Nothing extra.
If you are preparing for a parade, then yes. Continuous marching in formation. Maybe the air defense was preparing you for the parade?
I talked with a lieutenant who graduated from the school, he said that what was most useful to him was the training in putting on the OZK and a gas mask. He did this well, and he began to train his platoon intensively, the commander noticed and praised.
Where is the combat training and putting on a gas mask? Therefore, there is no need to get hung up on the front line, the system needs to be changed.

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote: glory1974

In fairness,

What arises in the front line is the need to quickly and clearly carry out commands and synchronize your movements with those who walk in your column and line, to feel the rhythm. Any skill is subject to generalization, i.e., transfer to different tasks where synchronization of one’s actions with the actions of associates in the group (department, etc.) is required. In combat work, this skill of distributing attention and regulating movements ensures group coherence when performing a variety of tasks.

[qQQQ]

Quote: Stanislav_Shishkin

In combat work, this skill of distributing attention and regulating movements ensures group coherence when performing a variety of tasks.

Excuse me, but this is nonsense. The drill doesn’t affect any interaction, it takes away the brain and initiative, making the soldiers an obedient herd... I’m wondering if the guards of the top officials probably spend all day working on the drill. If we develop it further, who interacts better in battle: soldiers who do not get out of the trenches or a company of honor guards? The question is rhetorical, because the answer is obvious. I understand retired and/or active officers who trampled the lion's share of their service on the platform. It's hard to realize that most of your work has done more harm than good.

[Stanislav_Shishkin]

Quote: qqqq

The line does not affect any interaction... who interacts better in battle: soldiers who do not get out of the trenches or a company of honor guards?

Do you have specific counterarguments? This leftist “analogy” does not work. If an honor guard company had received the same combat skills as soldiers who do not leave the trenches, then the coherence of their interaction would probably be greater.

[qQQQ]

Quote: Stanislav_Shishkin

If an honor guard company had received the same combat skills as soldiers who do not leave the trenches, then the coherence of their interaction would probably be greater.

Maybe it would have been (the key word is probably), but this was precisely as a result of combat work in a trench, and not on the parade ground. You yourself have refuted your theses about the benefits of drill, that a PC company is no good in a real battle and to give it combat stability it needs experience, well, not like drill.

[BIGLESHIY]

Quote: qqqq

Quote: Stanislav_Shishkin

In combat work, this skill of distributing attention and regulating movements ensures group coherence when performing a variety of tasks.

Excuse me, but this is nonsense. The drill doesn’t affect any interaction, it takes away the brain and initiative, making the soldiers an obedient herd... I’m wondering if the guards of the top officials probably spend all day working on the drill. If we develop it further, who interacts better in battle: soldiers who do not get out of the trenches or a company of honor guards? The question is rhetorical, because the answer is obvious. I understand retired and/or active officers who trampled the lion's share of their service on the platform. It's hard to realize that most of your work has done more harm than good.

The Germans, arrogant Saxons and all sorts of paddling pool people are not particularly involved in stepping, but so what, they fight well? They can only give civilians a nightmare.

[qQQQ]

Quote: BIGLESHIY

The Germans, arrogant Saxons and all sorts of paddling pool people are not particularly involved in stepping, but so what, they fight well?

The concept of maintaining a database is different. They focus on non-contact combat. We have not seen how they fight, so it is not correct to say anything. If you look into the past, then the Germans certainly did not fight badly.

[barbos]

They are at the top of the world food pyramid. And you continue to take a step, stretch your leg

[barbos]

What arises in the front line is the need to quickly and clearly carry out commands and synchronize your movements with those who walk in your column and line, to feel the rhythm. Any skill is subject to generalization, i.e., transfer to different tasks where synchronization of one’s actions with the actions of associates in the group (department, etc.) is required.

For some reason, I have not observed and have never observed even a hint of drill in training among football players, nor hockey players, nor basketball players. Can you tell the coaches of the NBA and NHL that they are mediocrities doing the wrong thing?

In combat work, this skill of distributing attention and regulating movements ensures group coherence when performing a variety of tasks.

When clearing mines on foot?

[English tarantas]

A drill team is needed. But minimally. Just for order in part. So that they do not stumble, do not push and do not get lost. Construction is also needed. In the morning and evening, checking the availability and condition of personnel. Well, in special cases when presence with both body and mind is important.
This is taught in first grade.

[qQQQ]

Quote: English tarantass

A drill team is needed. But minimally.

Minimal, yes. For this there is time to go to the dining room. How to ban a separate activity forever. For me personally, the most important thing about a soldier is his ability to protect me, and not to walk beautifully.

[alexoff]

Quote: qqqq

The only plus of stepping (although this is rather a minus) completely kills brains and initiative

This is the reason why someone likes to walk in formation. It's immediately obvious who's in charge here. And if they built soldiers on the front line, then apparently it’s God, since they fear him more than the enemy

[CTABEP]

This plus of stepsticks was a plus during the attacks of squares or
columns. Partially, it’s to beat the crap out of conscripts (although physical training and combat training are just as good). In a warring army, there's no need for it.

[Sergey Sergey_4]

I served in the union, these formations take up so much free time, and drill training was generally invented by a sadist... we were told: a soldier without anything to do will definitely do something bad! on Saturday and Sunday we had only two formations in the morning and in the evening it was just awesome...!

[nickname7]

Let me explain, the time spent on step training was taken from combat training.

Question, there is a barracks on the 4th floor with two exits and there are 400 soldiers there, how to get the soldiers out of the barracks? An unorganized crowd will create traffic jams and run over someone.
To prevent this from happening, we figured out how to organize the movements of large masses of personnel so that they moved as quickly as possible, did not crowd and did not crush each other.

[aba]

Under capitalism, the main thing is money, in relation to the article, a profitable place. And exactly owners of profitable places They don’t abandon their own. But the rest are not only not their own for them, but they are not people either.

[Vlad Baryatinsky]

Quote: My address

The article is really about a painful issue.

The article is definitely a +!!!

[Grim Reaper]

Let's start with the fact that drill training is one of the stages for a fighter to carry out an order. He did it without thinking about why. To think for a soldier on the front line is 1. Failure of the tasks of a particular platoon/company/.....
2. Reduced chances of survival
A fighter without knowing the entire battle area cannot correctly assess the situation. Hence many of the songs that we were sent to storm, and everyone died. And the fact that by sending 100 people to death the commander saved 1000 is not mentioned. I understand that there are lieutenants from the board, but in general, don’t judge why this happened. And follow the order. You will be healthier. No kidding

[qQQQ]

Quote: Grim Reaper

I did it without thinking why.

Why, you don’t need to think, I agree with this, you need to think about how to do it more efficiently. That's what brains are for. I think that you will not deny that historically we have a problem with this formulation of the question. The order is interpreted straightforwardly, and accordingly its execution is straightforward. This results in absolutely unnecessary losses. The fighter must, must, think in terms of how to complete the assigned task with minimal losses. By and large, every commander at any level of the hierarchy has space for flight of thought and manifestation of initiative. For executing an order directly, without using the given space, there should be a punishment as for professional incompetence.

[alexoff]

Quote: Grim Reaper

And the fact that by sending 100 people to death the commander saved 1000 is not mentioned.

In this case, the commander saved a thousand dry land at the cost of hundreds of our soldiers.

[militarist63]

For how many days now have I been reading various publications about this case and I am amazed! They immediately announced about some general, for whose sake this formation was organized.... Immediately they raised a storm like “name us this general” for “tearing apart”.... Then the “competent” ones.... sort of figured out this general and away he went...."both in the tail and in the mane".... Now they have seen all the troubles in the drill regulations, steps and other nuances, unloved by some here, drill training (but what side is drill training for this case?? ) BUT NO ONE PAID ATTENTION TO THE IMPORTANT THING! Here the author writes:

Here you need to understand very clearly, it is a pity that some do not understand that the “front line” is not the line of trenches behind which the enemy. The front line is the zone affected by enemy weapons.......

Actually, this incident did not occur on the front line, not on the first or second line of defense, and not even on some rear facility of the defending division (not to mention the regiment)! THIS HAPPENED AT THE TRAINING GROUND!!!!! Here's what to figure out! To put it mildly, what kind of bald guy IS THE TRAINING GROUND SO CLOSE TO THE FRONT FRONT?! This is what needs to be discussed, but drag in the drill regulations here, calling it an anachronism! Perhaps Russia is so small (like some Luxembourg...) that there was no other place??! At the same time, at training grounds, when carrying out TSU, TSZ or the same shooting and driving of BM, formations were and are widely used! Just not to practice some kind of drill techniques..., but so that, among other things, the leader (at the initial stage of the training) could explain to all personnel the actions of everyone when performing a combat mission! At the end of the lesson, the results are summed up, again, based on construction! This is a normal practice of the educational process, and among adversaries too! Only the training ground should be in a safe place, far to the rear!!!!
By the way, the photographs presented by Skomorokhov were taken at some kind of tactical training at the training ground... One even shows a poster, along the way, with a diagram of the area...

[Netl]

what bald guy IS THE TRAINING GROUND SO CLOSE?

The most obvious answer is that in order not to transport people to distant lands and back.
Which is expensive both in terms of money and time. And filming people for a long time is not always possible.

And the questions are asked correctly. There is a war going on and we need to forget about formations in principle, and it doesn’t matter, the training ground is not a training ground. You need to learn to manage people so that a crowd never gathers together anywhere.

And it is also necessary to teach in such a way that a crowd never gathers either for explanation or discussion. This should already be at the level of instinct, no to the crowd!

[JD1979]

Quote: Grim Reaper

I did it without thinking why. To think for a soldier on the front line is 1. Failure of the tasks of a particular platoon/company/.....
2. Reduced chances of survival

Thinking this is not about you)))

[Lech from Android.]

Our enemy knows too many details about our army, this is unacceptable.

I read with my own eyes the explanation of Roskomnadzor, which clearly stated in black and white: everything that is not voiced by the Ministry of Defense is a fake and discredits the army with all that it implies.

Roskomnadzor is talking nonsense in this case...
In the USA, the Pentagon published an analytical summary of the assessment of our army... 280 pages of information on the state of our armed forces.
Awww... Roskomnadzor, what are you doing there... I'm simply outraged by this state of affairs... how is it... our citizens, unlike enemy intelligence, are closed to all information about our army... holy shit.

[Andrey Moskvin]

In my opinion, it is natural that enemy intelligence knows more than civilians.

[UAZ 452]

But these enemy intelligence reports are quite accessible to THEIR civilians. And similar data for THEIR armies too. We have different clamps.

[Andrey Moskvin]

It is truth too. But publicity is not always good. I doubt that in a situation similar to the SVO, there would be citizens in the United States supplying enemy intelligence with information. We have regular arrests.

[UAZ 452]

That is, are you sure that the Americans will be loyal to their country, but we have a traitor on top of a traitor? And how do you explain this?
And it is difficult to imagine that information that is publicly available to its citizens will remain inaccessible to the enemy. This is simply impossible. It’s just that the costs of such a leak (I’m not talking about any information, of course) are much lower than the habit of keeping everything secret from everyone. The costs of this approach have largely led to the events of recent years. They just started with deception for the Shirnarmass, then they continued with powdering the brains of their higher authorities, and then they themselves began to believe in the picture they themselves had drawn. As a result, we have what we have.

[Andrey Moskvin]

I wrote not about confidence, but about doubt! As for the traitors, it is what it is. I don’t dare explain this.
As for the rest, it turns out that there is no point in keeping secrets, and lying is even worse. Vicious circle.

[UAZ 452]

It appears that despite all the costs, and considerable ones, honesty is the best policy. The enemy will fill the information vacuum with great pleasure, and he will be even more happy to catch you lying. As a result, in a relatively short time we come to a situation where our own citizens draw information from the enemy’s media, which shapes public opinion in your country. And this is already a complete loss, despite any successes at the front.
PS Previously, they fought against this by preventing access to alternative sources of information, and quite successfully, they are still trying - blocking sites, war with VPN, but current technologies require different approaches - jamming enemy voices will not solve the problem now.

[alexoff]

You can keep everything secret if everything goes according to a cunning plan and victory means victory, then no one will go check enemy sites. And if poorly hidden failures are secreted, then they will look at these failures, not the secrecy. It’s unlikely that anyone would have thought two years ago that the Russian army would not reach Kramatorsk. We have some kind of scourge of every first boss, that if he admits that he did something wrong, then he will immediately be chewed up by his subordinates, who, of course, see perfectly well that he not only did something wrong, but also behaves like a reprobate, attacking everyone who looked askance and pretending to be God knows what. And he is not going to improve, only making the situation worse

[Sergei_Bely]

Roskomnadzor, what are you doing there... I’m simply outraged by this state of affairs... how is it possible... our citizens, unlike enemy intelligence, are closed to all information about our army... holy shit.

Party policy - our citizens should watch TV and believe everything they say. Solovyov will not tell a lie!

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Sergey_Bely

Party policy - our citizens should watch TV and believe everything they say. Solovyov will not tell a lie!

Who will let Solovyov speak “lies” on TV?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Awww... Roskomnadzor, what are you doing there... I'm simply outraged by this state of affairs... how is it... our citizens, unlike enemy intelligence, are closed to all information about our army... holy shit.

Welcome back to the USSR.
In which the Jane reference books were classified because they contained information about Soviet weapons systems that were considered secret in the Union.

[DenVB]

Quote: Alexey RA

Welcome back to the USSR. smile
In which the reference books "Jane" were stamped

How many people in the USSR were imprisoned for disclosing Jane's reference books?

[Pushkar]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Our citizens, unlike enemy intelligence, are closed to all information about our army...

Tracing paper from Soviet times. Military school, 1969, English classes, manual - "Military review" magazine for 1956. And there are photos of Su-9 tests with approximate data. The first platoon studied for this aircraft, all training materials are only secret. We, technical service officers, knew more about enemy equipment than about our own.

[Vita vko]

Quote: svp67

several at once, but in a short period

Doubtful of course. The Hollywood CIA has been churning out fakes too well lately. Retreating to the battlefield, Bandera’s supporters try to win in the information field.
But what the author is right about is that stupidity in combat conditions is cured very quickly, usually by the death of the idiot, sometimes by the units that did not stop him. It’s strange that after 2 years of brutal fighting there are still such people in the troops.

[Zoer]

Quote: Vita VKO

It’s strange that after 2 years of brutal fighting there are still such people in the troops.

Nothing strange. The author also explained this:

And impunity, and complete impunity, leads to more and more crimes being committed.

So, silencing everyone and everything, even on real problems, gives rise to this very impunity. Add in the universal love of verticals for fraud, and it turns out to be a fairy tale.
It is also amazing that in our country it is easier to imprison some fool for pictures with inconvenient content than to call to account a moron commander who killed half a company for the sake of cheap sycophancy.

[P]

It’s not clear what’s striking? Behind the general of Laos is a creative team of beneficiaries. They protect and promote him, just as he does them, and from this they have profit, which they can use to prevent the general from being imprisoned and for the imprisonment of those who want to imprison the general. Therefore, the fool will sit, but the general will not. Because in Laos there is capitalism

[Zoer]

Quote: Pandemic

It’s not clear what’s striking?

Yes, it’s amazing that this vicious system works perfectly even in wartime conditions, despite the death of hundreds of our soldiers in the rear. And the question naturally arises about the advisability of participating in this vicious system.

[Stas157]

We had a unique military school, Wagner, where it was not like in the army. But the “army” ultimately defeated her.

And we could adopt a lot of useful and effective things. Instead, there was a serious conflict and irreconcilable differences. The climax of the conflict was the “proposal” to sign a contract with the “army”. Everyone knows what came of it.

[vfkuk]

Why is the Chief of the General Staff of the army that was defeated in 2022 still the Chief of the General Staff?

[Shelest2000]

Remember how it was with the Strugatskys in “It’s Hard to Be God”:
We don't need smart people. Faithful are needed! (c)
This explains a lot...

[g0ryachevnn]

Vyacheslav, why? basically, imagine that the destruction of civilians and fighters is the main goal of this murky operation and everything will fall into place

[UAZ 452]

Well, yes, if the task is set specifically for MUTUAL grinding, then everything really goes according to plan. In principle, it is quite clear who exactly the task was assigned to.

[g0ryachevnn]

UAZ, that’s right, until recently this verb was a favorite... among Shoigu, and many others

[tkoh]

Quote from vfk

Why is the Chief of the General Staff of the army that was defeated in 2022 still the Chief of the General Staff?

Because everything is according to plan and ideas are delivered exactly on time.

[Aviator_]

The climax of the conflict was the “proposal” to sign a contract with the “army”. Everyone knows what came of it.

That is, the private army is “our everything?” With your own extra-budgetary funding, media holding for advertising pictures, etc.? The advertising was great.

[Stas157]

Quote: Aviator_

That is, the private army is “our everything?”

Now definitely not.
But in the difficult battles for Bakhmut, it seemed to me that Wagner deserved, if not all, but at least some place in our state. Wagner essentially protected the lives of our army soldiers, giving his own.

[Aviator_]

Wagner essentially protected the lives of our army soldiers, giving his own.

Didn’t ordinary army soldiers take care of anyone’s lives? In my opinion, there is no point in pitting one division against another. Another thing is that the musicians, assembled from officers and privates dismissed for various reasons, recruited from different contingents, were outside the legal framework of the Russian Federation. If they fought only in Africa and Syria, then fine, but here they should be under our jurisdiction. But for some reason this was not done at the highest level. So they got Prigozhin’s personal private army.

[Stas157]

Quote: Aviator_

In my opinion, there is no point in pitting one division against another.

They could have complemented each other if the best PMC in the world, Wagner, had not been dispersed.

[Romario_Argo]

it’s just that the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation urgently needed assault divisions subordinate to the General Staff

[Aviator_]

if the world's best PMC Wagner had not been dispersed.

If such “the best in the world” staged a riot, then its end is natural in any country.

[alexoff]

At the highest level they could offer the Wagners to replace the worthless generals who kicked smart officers out of the army into PMCs. But over the past 10 years, we haven’t had a single famous hero left, only bureaucrats on duty, all people with at least some kind of charisma are either in prison or died under mysterious circumstances. We have only one hero and patriot in our country, we don’t need more heroic and patriotic people

[AdAstra]

As time has shown and the articles that were previously published here, albeit not entirely on this subject, “Wagner” in terms of combat did not show anything new or outstanding, the same attacks head-on and gnawing through defenses directly, with no small losses, although they were provided almost at the snap of a finger and often to the detriment of others. A possible plus for them is only the speed of reaction from decision making to execution. Their job is like this, no one dragged them there with a lasso and they gave their lives only for the salary due to them and some goodies from the “company”, and not for that army guy. A prisoner recruited to Wagner could leave this SVO after 6 months, this seems to be the minimum contract, but a prisoner mobilized from the machine and plow will “cuckoo” if he is alive and well, until the Supreme Commander deigns to issue a decree on demobilization.

[Ksyusha Oleneva]

It was an alternative view of the army, of the methods of conducting combat, of equipment and weapons.

[Pushkar]

Quote: Stas157

We had a unique military school, Wagner, where it was not like in the army.

The story with Makhno, I see, has taught no one anything. Military power should only be in the hands of the state. Otherwise, it will be another “campaign against Moscow.”

[Romario_Argo]

By the way, you revealed the problem of the lack of police forces
those. in addition to the federal police - the time has come to revive the municipal police (militia)

[invisible_man]

This “municipal” police was subordinated not to local civil authorities, as originally planned, but to the city departments of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and it did not differ in anything (except for the chevrons and berets on their heads) from the ordinary police. Actually, that’s why the experiment was stopped.

[Grim Reaper]

We had a unique military school, Wagner, where it was not like in the army. But the “army” ultimately defeated her.
+++++++
And what's unique about it? A crowd of criminals who wouldn’t mind being sent to a meat grinder? My brother-in-law died there. WHAT Unique Happened There?

[Dutchman Michel]

Well, there is also a rise in 45 seconds and drill training, where you need to pull your heel and clearly beat your step! Well, before there were also classes in the Lenin room

[UAZ 452]

Getting up in 45 seconds is very consistent with real combat readiness. But when this climb is mainly for drill training...

[Dutchman Michel]

Quote: UAZ 452

But when this climb is mainly for drill training...

This is why it is held

[aakvit]

Dutchman Michel (Michel)
Quote: UAZ 452
But when this climb is mainly for drill training...

This is why it is held: wink

Well, no need! What is the connection between getting up on COMBAT alert and stepping?! And the rise is over 45 and is aimed at COMBAT work, and not at all for walking along the parade ground! With all due respect, Michel, but you either did not serve or served in the Kremlin regiment (I don't want to offend anyone). I had to serve as an ordinary sergeant, a squad commander, and I never had to do step training in the regiment (not in training!), literally never, except for one time when my eagles got into trouble and the chief of staff sent the squad out to the parade ground to remember their youth. It's your own fault! What about ceremonial formations for the holidays with marching to the orchestra - and how could we do without them? After all, this is not on the front line, but in a place of permanent deployment!

[DenVB]

Quote: UAZ 452

Getting up in 45 seconds is very consistent with real combat readiness.

No way, really.

Quote: UAZ 452

But when this climb is mainly for drill training...

It also has nothing to do with drill training. The only reason it was invented was to mock his subordinates.

[ada]

Well, specific seconds are not for everyone.
The timing of the daily routine was not taken out of thin air, like other time-based action cards, for example, an operational map of a technical process, working day, etc., but was compiled on the basis of a document - “Photos of the day”, where the sequence of actions and control time stamps were actually recorded.
If my memory serves me correctly, then with the deployment in Europe of missiles with medium-range nuclear warheads, probably Pershings, in the 80s (83?), the issue of high-frequency exit from the PPD within the range of these missiles on time was very relevant, it seems no more than an hour . And subsequently, the timing of leaving the PPD was standardized everywhere to ensure that high frequencies escaped from an attack on a stationary object. Lifting l/s has always been practiced.

[DenVB]

Quote: ada

The timing of the daily routine was not taken out of thin air, like other time-based action cards, for example, an operational map of a technical process, working day, etc., but was compiled on the basis of a document - “Photos of the day”, where the sequence of actions and control time stamps were actually recorded.

Well, you have a fantasy.

Quote: ada

Lifting l/s has always been practiced.

Yes. Because of the entire process from “soldiers are sleeping peacefully” to “HF has left the PPD”, the stage of jumping out of the bed and jumping into boots with foot wraps laid out on them in advance is the most important and time-consuming.

[ada]

Fantasies have no place here. “Photography” is the main reporting working document for the commission or responsible person appointed in accordance with the established procedure for organizing and monitoring the necessary issues or events.
There are people who, from college until retirement, and sometimes even after, never left the army inspection commission

[DenVB]

Quote: ada

Fantasies have no place here. “Photography” is the main reporting working document for the commission or responsible person appointed in accordance with the established procedure for organizing and monitoring the necessary issues or events.

But no one has ever seen a document prescribing a lifting standard of 45 seconds (or, according to the more common version among the troops, “while the match is burning”).

I'm not even talking about a document with which such a “standard” could be “scientifically” justified.

[ada]

Well, obsy - accepted in the Armed Forces - experience, experiment with the removal of park gates, co-but and the "scientific-practical" method, at the exit docks - act, prokl, rivers "Typical daily routine" approved. mouth por. dir. and methodological rivers. “The Soldier’s Truth” about matches (not a toy for children) is not considered. due to uk. in SKB.
If specifically in terms of time, then at certain moments, which included the rise of l/s and not only at night, it was indicated directively.

[DenVB]

Quote: ada

Well, obsy - accepted in the Armed Forces - experience, experiment with the removal of park gates, co-but and the "scientific-practical" method, at the exit docks - act, prokl, rivers "Typical daily routine" approved. mouth por. dir. and methodological rivers. “The Soldier’s Truth” about matches (not a toy for children) is not considered. due to uk. in SKB.

St. Petersburg, day I am not Thursday. t-x intrs. kmnnt.

Quote: ada

If specifically in terms of time, then at certain moments, which included the rise of l/s and not only at night, it was indicated directively.

But it's secret. So that no one recognizes the directive number.

[ada]

I apologize for the abbreviations, since the text on the site freezes, and when editing it becomes incomprehensible - I had to switch to a separate editor and leave it on the site as it turned out.
Yes, secret and with other restrictions.

[DenVB]

Quote: ada

Yes, secret and with other restrictions.

That is, anyone who demanded that the soldiers rise in 45 seconds was divulging military secrets.

Oh, this security...

[ada]

You may not like some of the organizational issues of military service or may seem funny, but this does not change it.
The obligation to carry out measures to maintain the established secrecy regime lies with each military personnel or the State Police of the Russian Armed Forces, even if you have not signed a special contract (agreement, agreement). The system comes from SA. Both then and now, when organizing any events, officials are responsible for ensuring that these events comply with the requirements of official documents. Here, in the article, you are considering the issue of “construction”, aren’t you? Do you evaluate it from the point of view of the assumption of violation of the camouflage regime (requirements)? But on the part of the secrecy regime - no? Do engineering or organizational measures with l/s not affect the secrecy regime, in particular - ensuring the concealment of everyday activities of the daily routine in the field or combat training?
I don’t think that sending shrapnel while personnel are getting up during the night rest period and at the end of the day is more ridiculous. But a soldier is also obliged to keep official secrets or, in modern language, not to disseminate information that has become known to him during his service. Well, someone did not fulfill these requirements.
I don't know what you mean by "security". Why did you show me this definition?

[DenVB]

Quote: ada

I don't know what you mean by "security". Why did you show me this definition?

“Security” is a general definition of a class of commentators who are ready to justify any stupidity happening in our country (even downright criminal) by some higher state considerations and/or brilliant strategic plans.

[ada]

Ah, got it. Thank you for your trust, I usually don’t justify it
In that case, I have this addition, which is not uninteresting. It also has properties suitable for definitions, and also for classification, and it is classical.
In nature, there is such a dictionary of special terms (words, phrases, statements, etc.), it has a nice organizational structure divided into several columns, where opposite the term its translation, interpretation, scope and order of application and the required expected level of reaction and methods of interaction with object, directions for further development of influence on the object, as well as preliminary assessment indicators that determine the state of the object as a subject. What to do when classifying an object as a “subject” is indicated by an addressing footnote.
I myself have never seen one like this, but evil tongues say that it exists.
Wow. Don't you take advantage of the opportunity?

[DenVB]

Quote: ada

Wow. Don't you take advantage of the opportunity?

I didn't even understand a word, let alone use it.

[ada]

That's nice, trump-pum-pum (note: The text does not contain any connotations related to the pre-election and election programs for electing the President of the United States and does not directly or indirectly refer to any presidential candidates, as well as ...)

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Dutchman Michel

drill training, where you have to pull your heel and clearly beat your step!

This is something new! You're probably all crippled there if you pull your heels instead of your toes!
As for “clearly beating the step”... I was always touched by the padding on the “horse” boots. In our subfloat, burnouts with horseshoes were immediately thrown overboard, even completely new ones (!), and the nails in the shoes were bronze (brass) so that they would not spark on the metal of the hull. (The life of a crew is more valuable than shoes!) AHA.

[Scharnhorst]

And in our troops it was forbidden to wear wedding rings (gold is the best conductor), and there were also non-magnetic screwdrivers and keys, and another formation at 02.00 for the fourth shift of the B/D. The author also forgot to mention the Disciplinary Charter, he can also rewrite it with “blood” so that the soldiers return to civilian life not with money but with outstanding loans for a faulty tank... I recently spoke briefly with a representative of the military prosecutor’s office, it’s high time to bring in the tsarist non-commissioned officers!

[Grim Reaper]

The ban on wearing rings is not because gold is the best conductor. (by the way, silver is much better :)), but because the ring can catch on something protruding and, God forbid, rotating. And be left without a finger at best. All normal factories monitor this

[Eug]

Good article... formations are often very densely arranged for “better and more effective control of personnel”; absence from a formation without a good reason is a serious offense. By
At least that's how it was and it doesn't seem like it's changed.

[faiver]

I agree with the author, this kind of thing should be severely punished

[Nikolay Malyugin]

We had only one formation at the border outpost. For combat crews. Inside the premises. New types of weapons require a different approach. And we also love parades. Don’t just feed them bread. Even among the commanders there is no consensus on this matter. But I think life will force you.

[dnepropetrovsk]

Well, in my time, the border did not live according to the charter of the Armed Forces, it had its own. Why the “screws” “loved” us very much)))

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Nikolay Malyugin

And we also love shows. Don’t just feed them bread. Even among the commanders there is no consensus on this matter. But I think life will force it.

If only this “life” would force such commanders to learn for their health when, where and why to carry out formations, reviews and walkthroughs! And so, when personnel die while building the sand quarries awaiting the general, this is criminal stupidity and everyone who gave the criminal order and took it “under the belt” for execution is to be court-martialed!!!
PS How many healthy men in their prime were killed because of stupidity and stupidity!!!

[Mikhail Drabkin]

It would be so desirable that he could write “Roman, what kind of blizzard are you talking about! This does not exist in the Russian Army!” But no, and how everyone talks about it in the West, although they are still in a sad mood after Avdiivka. And most importantly, these deaths of Russian soldiers are due to “mistakes that are worse than crimes”

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Mikhail Drabkin

And most importantly, these deaths of Russian soldiers are due to “mistakes that are worse than crimes”

It seemed to me (I still have this feeling) that the article with a “smell” was aimed at undermining the authority of the committee.
In addition, the author is confused in terms of the “advanced” and tactical depth of troop formation...
I served for 43 years, a sailor, a professional military man, but I have never seen such nonsense as Skomorokhov spoke about. The Navy is not the Army, the specifics are different. Agree. But even when I was a member of the Suvorov Class SVU (1971), this did not happen! And then, there are different commanders: they gave us the example of Mr. Kuchkin, a battalion commander, who during the entire Afghan war did not lose a SINGLE SOLDIER!!! He is probably also, according to the author, a criminal, because he probably gave orders to build a l/s.

[aakvit]

I completely agree with you, Alexander! Not a naval officer myself, sergeant of the USSR Air Force 1985-1987, I am ready to subscribe to your every word!

[Sanguinius]

But take it and believe Skomorokhov, because in fact, the current service of double basses and conscripts is exactly like this (I am writing from personal experience), maybe it was a little different in your bearded years, so to speak, but now it is a fact of life!

aimed at undermining the authority of the command staff.

First, they must earn their authority and command. And now he is only undermining it. What kind of normal attitude can military personnel have towards command personnel when, due to some stupidity, they keep you on the parade ground for an hour, whether it’s frost, rain or under the scorching sun?
Do you need to set tasks for l/s? No question, call your subordinates and assign them tasks, and in their departments they will bring the task to the level of l/s and will carry it out.
And constantly, instead of combat training, wasting time 3-4 times a day on stupid formations is nonsense.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Sanguinius

wasting time 3-4 times a day on stupid constructions is nonsense.

I write that in my time this did not happen. The Navy (and, judging by Andrei’s post, the Air Force too!) did not go overboard with formations - there was no such need. About what “arrived” in OUR formation - not in a dream, not in spirit! Skaklov had it, but that’s their problem, and they’re not going to the sheriff!
If this is a parasite in modern infantry/other army structures, I can only sympathize. WE DIDN'T HAVE THIS!!!

[Sanguinius]

I write that in my time this did not happen.

Well, that’s why I’m writing to you that...

in fact, the current service for double basses and conscripts is exactly like this (I’m writing from personal experience), maybe it was a little different in your bearded years, so to speak, but now it’s a fact of life!

[Vlad Baryatinsky]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

It seemed to me (I still have this feeling) that the article with a “smell” was aimed at undermining the authority of the committee.

This is your brain damage to a TRUE description of the situation in the context of the recent TRAGEDY.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Vlad Baryatinsky

This is your brain damage to a TRUE description of the situation in the context of the recent TRAGEDY.

1. "As for the mind,
He is very fair" (c)
2. What recent “tragedy” are you writing about? Isn't this TsIPSO a fake? Maybe gullible alarmists like you need to be (as my naval comrade jesuitically remarked) “shoot in the forehead, standing in an open field facing the wall!” / -- take your time, feel the depth of sarcasm of the SECOND level! Frankly, I didn’t immediately understand the depth of the message.../

[Vlad Baryatinsky]

You have senile insanity. If you don't see the obvious. Apparently you are one of those for whom everything is God's dew. In my eventful life, I have met people like you. Almost all are envious, sufferers and losers.
I don't sympathize with you.

[Boa kaa]

Apart from rudeness and insults, you, a bad person, do you have anything relevant to the heaping questions asked of you!? WHERE and WHEN did the RECENT tragedy occur with the defeat of our soldiers, who were lined up to meet the high authorities?
No threats: if you don’t provide specific facts, it’s better not to appear on the site anymore!

[Vlad Baryatinsky]

Yes, you are a clinical case, POOR GUY.
Great honor for such...!
You can be seen from the galaxy of those slanderers who crushed the GREAT country to its current state.
Not small. Radish (not a good person). Dial your telegram channels yourself and the veil will fall from your clouded eyes.
You will threaten your household. If there are any.

[alexoff]

Well, why don’t the commanders find out who is undermining their authority with such stupid constructions? I remember when the girls arrived in the same way, they had a fuss that the commander was in the back and needed to be checked. But we are not like that, the main thing is that no one prevents the command staff from undermining their authority alone

[ada]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

... It seemed to me (I still have this feeling) that the article with a “smell” was aimed at undermining the authority of the committee. ...

No, Boa Constrictor, it wasn’t your imagination, you felt everything was correct, including the author’s level of training on military topics. And the most important thing is that there are an overwhelming majority of people here.
The main problem is well known to me from the time of 1ChV: the official relationship between a superior and a subordinate against the background of a low level of military training and an even lower moral level, which do not correspond to the positions held even by ordinary personnel. In fact, to some extent this was inherited from the collapse of society in the 70s and 80s, and then with the collapse in the 90s it covered everyone, which can still be traced to this day. Any manifestation of meanness, cunning, cowardice, lack of performance and low discipline, and sometimes betrayal, including in a combat situation, largely stems from the loss of ideas, ideology, understanding of one’s role in the life of the country, people and one’s destiny as a warrior-defender . This is the decomposition of a personality who does not understand why she should not only go on the attack, but also simply carry out her military duties, let’s say the Military Regulations, although the whole life of a serviceman while performing the service duties discussed in the article occurs in the form and order determined precisely by this bylaw, no matter how funny it may sound to those who don’t understand. Subordinates grin at their boss, not wanting to force themselves to serve in the Armed Forces, they know that the formation is evil, and the requirements for them are too high, etc. You smell the smell: “commie commissars”, “political officers”, “officers”. This is the “truth of the trenches” creeping in even from those who have not seen them, these trenches. And why? Why do soldiers refuse to go into battle? Why is it so painful to perform even simple elements? The answer is simple, they don’t understand - why? They don’t need it, they are here by chance, it has nothing to do with them. It’s just that they haven’t made a warrior out of them yet, haven’t taught them, haven’t raised them, haven’t fed them, haven’t raised a person to this level, and they already have to die. It’s just that instead of “service” they said “work” or at most “man’s work”, and instead of “not sparing your belly” they said “hard” or “dangerous”. And this is not work, this is the SACRIFICE that a WARRIOR makes for the sake of his family, the fatherland, the idea, this is the SACRIFICE that his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters - the PEOPLE, make, tearing away from themselves and blessing them for the feat of service to them and for them, taking this guilt or melancholy into the soul. That's what it is. But this is not the case, the gap in the continuity of generations is huge, the Soviet ones are not the same, in the bourgeois way - they don’t understand, naked injustice reigns around, everything is measured by money... .
Now, the meaning of the army itself is only being restored, when a clear enemy threat to everything begins to be felt, when contempt for the enemy is born, the need to stand up for defense. Oh, here we are talking about “formations” - and look, 90% of the commentators don’t understand a fairy and don’t know how to count or give commands, but they served in the Armed Forces. Question: How? So they served unfinished and went into the reserves unfit and thus faced the war. That's why you have to explain, persuade, force, coerce and imprison your own people and even shoot your own people. And believe me, shooting at your own people is not the end, it’s been worse.
There is nothing to say about the author and the subject of the article, after a number of others, in particular about discipline, about our artillery - they are unsuitable for reading and discussion. The smell is coming.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: ada

And the most important thing is that there are an overwhelming majority of people here.

Dmitriy! Thanks for support! It was as if I was back in my own crew again... And I completely share your words and views on the problem of discipline and dedication to work and ideals!
I know one thing: we cannot give our site of military professionals to navalnyats and TsIPSO officers. They need to be weeded like weeds in a garden!

[Amateur]

Unfortunately, Skomorokhov did not say the main thing: which of the commanders organized this formation and what punishment he received for his actions. During the Second World War, such a commander was sent to a penal battalion and learned to command with his own blood. And now?

[Rakovor]

There was a formation, there is plenty of video evidence of this, for what reason is not important, only the lives of the soldiers who were carried away by this formation are important. But “waves of emotions” need to be raised about this, otherwise our guys will continue to die for no reason other than snuff.

[Arkadich]

There was a formation, there is plenty of video evidence of this, for what reason it doesn’t matter

I don't have many doubts about the construction itself.
But the reason for the construction is important. Now they are spreading the narrative that the authorities were waiting, but what if it was a gathering for, for example, redeployment or something?
Then the whole meaning of the article is turned upside down.

[Silhouette]

But how can we somehow learn to command a unit without formations? Do our commanders lack brains? Without all these "Align! Attention! Align with the middle!" Without all these confirmations of self-worth. Or are they no longer capable of anything other than demonstrating their commitment to training?

[Arkadich]

You are discussing a topic about which you understand little.

Without all these confirmations of self-worth.

Gathering personnel and formation in accordance with the Military Regulations are different things, especially since it does not apply there.
It would be a stretch to call military training training. You didn't know that?

[Pushkar]

Quote: Arkadich

It would be a stretch to call military training training.

Try telling people that they are being trained like dogs. Only in person, in front of the line.

[Arkadich]

Who knows how to think and knows about it.

[Silhouette]

Quote: Arkadich

You are discussing a topic about which you have little understanding.

Quote: Arkadich

It would be a stretch to call military training training.

Are you even literate? Are you able to express your thoughts separately and clearly?

[Arkadich]

Are you even literate? Are you able to express your thoughts separately and clearly?

If a person writes, it means he is at least literate.
How do you chew it and put it in your mouth in first grade?

[P]

I’ve never seen anyone imprisoned or removed for this. So it’s not true, the lives of fighters are important only to the fighters and their loved ones.

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Amateur

Unfortunately, Skomorokhov did not say the main thing: which of the commanders organized this formation and what punishment he received for his actions. During the Second World War, such a commander was sent to a penal battalion and learned to command with his own blood. And now?

And to command again?! No, just like privates, under other commanders!

[Vlad Baryatinsky]

Quote: Amateur

Unfortunately, Skomorokhov did not say the main thing: which of the commanders arranged this formation and what punishment he received for his actions.

Sir. Why did you decide to take the Author to places not so remote!?

[P]

there will be no punishment. The basis of the personnel policy of all feeding and holding budgets is complete impunity

[ivan2022]

The task is to separate the important from the unimportant and deal with the main thing. But if no one cares about anything, then everything can be reduced to rite. Be it in the Church or in the Army.

An example of ritual belief is the Soviet military oath of 1975. Everyone remembers it.

Here's the American one:
"I (name) do solemnly swear to defend the Constitution of the United States from enemies foreign and domestic. I take this oath freely and without mental excuse, so help me God."

The fact is that the purpose of any army in the world is to protect the Law. And in the Soviet oath the word Law was not mentioned even once. But we were talking about an order to “come to the defense...” which was not there at the right time. But they received idiotic orders 100 years in advance.

[Galleon]

Don’t touch the Soviet oath! Her words stung. And they changed it as soon as thieves and Judases came to power.
“If I violate this solemn oath of mine, then may I be subjected to the SEVERE PUNISHMENT OF SOVIET LAW, UNIVERSAL HATRED AND CONTEMPT OF THE WORKERS.
And in the current text there is some kind of indistinct muttering about the constitutional system, ugh!

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Galleon

Don’t touch the Soviet oath! Her words stung. And they changed it as soon as thieves and Judases came to power.
“If I violate this solemn oath of mine, then may I be subjected to the SEVERE PUNISHMENT OF SOVIET LAW, UNIVERSAL HATRED AND CONTEMPT OF THE WORKERS.

But this oath, with all its pretentiousness, did not save the Union. And those who accepted her went somewhere - some to serve the new authorities, some to become businessmen, and some to combine these two hypostases.

[tatra]

So, again, the communists and their supporters are to blame, and their enemies have “nothing to do with it”?
If the Bolshevik communists and their supporters have always been and are proud of the October Revolution, then their enemies cowardly whine in unison that they have “nothing to do” with their anti-Soviet/anti-communist Perestroika, their counter-revolution, their seizure and dismemberment of the USSR, because they themselves admit that All this was done for criminal purposes - to the detriment of their country and people.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: tatra

If the Bolshevik communists and their supporters have always been and are proud of the October Revolution, then their enemies cowardly whine in unison that they have “nothing to do” with their anti-Soviet/anti-communist Perestroika, their counter-revolution, their seizure and dismemberment of the USSR, because they themselves admit that All this was done for criminal purposes - to the detriment of their country and people.

And these enemies are 99% of the population of the USSR. Because practically no one stood up to defend Soviet power in the 74th year of Bolshevik rule.

[tatra]

Well, according to your “logic, the enemies of the Romanovs were 99% of the population of the Republic of Ingushetia, because no one came to their defense in February-March 1917, the enemies of the “Februaryists” were 99% of the population of Russia, because no one came to their defense in October 1917.
And the opponents of your anti-Soviet government in the Russian Federation are 99% of the population, because no one came to his defense when Prigozhin arranged what everyone saw.

[invisible_man]

If only you were sitting quietly in your dacha, growing cucumbers.

[alexoff]

Well, actually, that’s how it was, not so much enemies as those who do not care about the fate of the leadership that screwed up everything. Both the Romanovs and others no longer had any authority. Nowadays they have just come up with the idea of ​​bringing things to such a state of chaos that people are afraid that without even such a government everything will completely fall apart, and the new ones will have to sort out the bureaucratic rubble for many years

[Alexey RA]

Quote from alexoff

Nowadays they have just come up with the idea of ​​bringing things to such a state of chaos that people are afraid that without even such a government everything will completely fall apart, and the new ones will have to sort out the bureaucratic rubble for many years

It’s just that those who remember are still alive and active sh-sewn nineties. As soon as they retire, the people will go back to looking for adventure on their heels, having heard enough stories about the free market and democratic values.
And everything will be repeated as of old - collapse, redistribution of property, mass layoffs, ardent promises of gay thieves from the stands... and people scratching their heads "oh my, yes, we again put a thief on the neck of a thief, but where were our eyes looking?"

[alexoff]

The problem is that these are precisely the people in power who organized the nineties. And the people didn’t choose anyone, they got used to the fact that if they say it on TV, it means that’s what the authorities think and they have to take it under their belt. And I would also like to add that the scare of the nineties is part of the series of scares by liberals, as if no one else had ever existed. And oppositionists who do not receive a salary in the Kremlin or the State Department, by an amazing coincidence of circumstances, do not live long and/or freely. We can only have one main patriot; we cannot be more patriotic. It’s like in the USSR you could calmly run over the hill and not be afraid of anything, but to raise a riot on a ship that the CPSU has retreated from communism is immediately executed. Our main patriot is like Lukashenko - we don’t need a pro-Russian party, so we have one and we don’t need it anymore. No one, of course, tried to surrender the country in the summer of 2021 in Geneva, as Khrushchev did in 1955.

[Alexey RA]

Quote from alexoff

And oppositionists who do not receive a salary in the Kremlin or the State Department, by an amazing coincidence of circumstances, do not live long and/or freely.

And those who receive this salary, too. The news feed will not create itself - and you have to work off the grant by walking across the bridge.

[Aviator_]

But this oath, with all its pretentiousness, did not save the Union.

And you read it all. There were keywords: by order. But there was no order. That's all, only Igor Ostapenko came forward with the sailors to help the Supreme Council.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Aviator_

And you read it all. There were key words: by order.

I remember about "I'm always ready by order The Soviet Government to come out in defense of my Motherland - the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics".

But then what is the point of remembering the pathetic lines of the oath, if in fact the country protected by the army died, and SEVERE PUNISHMENT OF SOVIET LAW, UNIVERSAL HATRED AND CONTEMPT OF WORKERS They never overtook anyone - because there was no order.

[ivan2022]

Quote: Galleon

If I violate this solemn oath of mine, then may I be subjected to the SEVERE PUNISHMENT OF SOVIET LAW, UNIVERSAL HATRED AND CONTEMPT OF THE WORKERS.

Well, the vow came true! They betrayed the Oath in 1991, and everyone suffered a universal hatred of each other and killed each other. But some of those who betrayed the oath for the sake of a future pension also shout that they say, “Don’t touch the oath...

[P]

the oath did not burn anyone, the KGB, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Laotian Armed Forces of the 1991 model betrayed it in full, with rare exceptions. Including those who were supposed to arrest or destroy the leaders of Laos, sawing it into pieces

[Radik Mukharyamov]

Not only copters are watching the military; unfortunately, there are also “patriots”. But whose are they, what country? And communication now is fast, not pigeon mail. So, you have to be careful in the rear too

[Carib]

Unfortunately, satellites also read the image. And not only optical but also radar with the construction of a 3D landscape. And perhaps with on-board processing and highlighting movement in a certain area. This means that in cloudy weather and fog on the unit’s parade ground, the satellite will report the formation. And about arriving at a station close to the front line of a large echelon... Think for yourself what else such a satellite can do. Something has already been implemented, something will be completed in software soon, and the farther away, the smaller and smaller objects the satellites will notice and report to their own. Optics and radio equipment can be exposed. And we need to prepare for this now, and train officers and soldiers to understand this.

[Good Evil]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

This charter is a slightly modernized version of the Soviet BU SV SA

The trouble is that the BU SV RA is catastrophically unable to keep up with the rapidly changing methods of database management due to the development of technology. What suited everyone during, say, the Afghan war is completely unacceptable now, in a situation where the enemy is fully aware of what is happening in our rear behind the LBS in real time. And such a change in methods of warfare should be reflected in the BU as quickly as possible.
Charters are written in blood, so this blood should not be shed in vain!

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Good evil

The trouble is that the BU SV RA catastrophically does not keep up with the rapidly changing methods of maintaining databases due to the development of technology.

Quote: Good evil

The trouble is that the BU SV RA catastrophically does not keep up with the rapidly changing methods of maintaining databases due to the development of technology.

Let me remind you that the words “Do not adhere to the rules, like a blind person to a wall” were not spoken yesterday. And let me remind you that the point I mentioned in particular says: “...The organization of internal service in the area of ​​​​location should not unmask the units.” In my opinion it is timeless.

[Revolver]

Quote: Vadim S

And I always write here that the Soviet system is tight

“A subordinate in front of his superiors should look dashing and stupid, so as not to embarrass his superiors with his understanding.” Is this also a Scoop? No, this is a decree of Emperor Peter I the Great dated December 9, 1709.

[Silhouette]

From a comic decree. They also knew how to have fun even before the invention of KVN.

[Seal]

No, this is a decree of Emperor Peter I the Great dated December 9, 1709.

During his many years of rule, Peter I issued many decrees. These texts are now available on the websites of various state libraries. But no one succeeded in decreeing the “dashing and stupid appearance”. A search on the Complete Collection of Laws of the Russian Empire, which is presented on the website of the Russian National Library, led to similar results. On the Internet, the decree on the subordinates is usually dated either December 9, 1708, or December 9, 1709. In the first case, a decree on recruiting recruits “in cities and districts near Moscow” is found, where there is nothing about “dashing and stupid appearance”; in the second - not a single document at all.

Professional historians also do not know about the existence of such a decree. Senior researcher at the State Historical Museum Gennady Marshtupa said that he “did not come across a text with such words in the sources.” Director of the Center for the History of Modern Russia at the National Research University Higher School of Economics Igor Fedyukin believes that such a decree is a “fake”. According to the historian, the content of the text contradicts the position of the emperor, who, on the contrary, believed that it was necessary to “embarrass” his own leadership and tell the sovereign about his mistakes. His colleagues are also supported by historian Gleb Kazakov, who emphasizes that the text “in its content and style is very similar to jokes that were written about Peter and other monarchs.”

The language used in the text also raises doubts about the authenticity of the decree. The National Corpus of the Russian Language allows you to check how often and in what years certain words and expressions were used. For example, the first use of the word “silly” was recorded in a Russian-language text only at the end of the 19th century - it is extremely unlikely that a word supposedly known at the beginning of the 18th century fell out of circulation for more than a century and a half. Moreover, the word “bosses” at the turn of the 18th–19th centuries was often used in a meaning different from its modern one: it did not mean a group of leaders, but rather the responsibility to lead something or someone. For example, constructions like “take control over” in the sense of “begin to lead something” were common.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Vadim S

As for speaking the inconvenient truth, there is a children’s film called Harry Potter, there is a Ministry of Truth, and it suppresses any dissent, all inconvenient opinions.

Yeah... and there’s also a fairy tale about Koshchei, where the musketeers fight the cardinal.
You... Don't confuse Rowling and Orwell. Moreover, Orwell's Mini-Prav is the author's revised memoirs of his work at the BBC.

Quote: Vadim S

Here we have almost everything the same, but we shout about democracy and freedom of speech!

So this is democracy today: everything that does not fit into the current agenda is disinformation. Everyone's agenda is just different.

[tatra]

Well, yes, we have known since the 90s how the enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people have been chanting that everything that the Soviets and commies have done is all bad, ineffective, and must be destroyed.
Well, yes, when it comes to destroying and destroying, you are “ahead of the rest.” Only for the whole 32 years you have done nothing of YOURSELF that is useful for Russia and the people.
Everything is either Soviet or imported/foreign.
In 3 years, Soviet communists and their supporters drove out a united Europe led by Hitler, which attacked the USSR, from the territory of the USSR. And you fought for 8 years with a bunch of separatists, but you never won.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Wow, some “we”, it turns out, fought for 8 years with a bunch of separatists?
And where are you actually from?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: tatra

In 3 years, Soviet communists and their supporters drove out a united Europe led by Hitler, which attacked the USSR, from the territory of the USSR. And you fought for 8 years with a bunch of separatists, but you never won.

Shaw, will there again be tales about a bunch of separatists oppressing the poor pro-Russian population, who are all for Russia, but are just afraid to say so?

[tatra]

Such tales are not for me.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

You look at the text from your opponent as a whole. It lacks logic and common sense. This is a robot.

[turembo]

This problem exists not only in the army; we really like all sorts of ostentatious things. When more than half of your working day is spent on useless planning sessions and meetings instead of work, this is not normal. And we always don’t care that the preparation is lame, but badges and boots should shine, apparently in the minds of many people, the ideal attack on the enemy takes place with a menacing march, with a stamped step, and blinding the enemy with the shine of boots and the whiteness of waffle towels, oh, and even the light of clean-shaven cheeks...

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

You don't see the problem there. And the article does not fully reflect the problem.
Unfortunately, I don’t know the current situation, but the main problem of the Soviet Army at that time was seen as the weakness of the special forces and the military prosecutor’s office. That is, supervision on their part, on the most problematic issues, was completely absent.
Cases like this should, first of all, be dealt with by the military prosecutor's office. And not only investigate, but also take part in personnel changes based on the results.
And I agree about the whiteness of the towels and the light of smoothly shaved cheeks. They are trying to replace medicine with hygiene. And the obligation to shave and brush your teeth in wartime should be abolished. And those who wish can polish their own face at least three times a day; this cannot be prohibited.

[aakvit]

Cases like this should, first of all, be dealt with by the military prosecutor's office. And not only investigate, but also take part in personnel changes based on the results.
And I agree about the whiteness of the towels and the light of smoothly shaved cheeks. They are trying to replace medicine with hygiene. And the obligation to shave and brush your teeth in wartime should be abolished. And those who wish can polish their own face at least three times a day; this cannot be prohibited.

YES!

[Alex66]

The main problem, of course, is that any level of criticism towards the Ministry of Defense has been equated to discredit and fake news.

That’s why the one who published this crime was arrested, and the general because of whom this happened (Moiseev) will continue to serve.

[PavelKosse]

Finally, at least someone mentioned the name of the anti-hero, the criminal...

[Tim]

[/quote]Biography of Oleg Moiseev
Oleg Moiseev was born on January 18, 1975 into a military family in the Lipetsk region. His grandfather served in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, was an investigator, then a lawyer, his father and his older brother served in the army, and Oleg Moiseev himself had a dream of becoming a military man.

After graduating from the Suvorov Military School, he entered the Moscow Higher Combined Arms Command School.

Oleg Moiseeva himself admits that until a certain moment he could not decide where to continue his studies. Everything was decided by chance: during the summer training camp, cadets of the Suvorov Military School were stationed not far from the MVOKU camp. The teenagers saw tall and physically developed fourth-year students. And at that moment, both Moiseev and almost his entire course decided to enter MVOKU in the future.

He received his first combat experience in Syria, Northeast Military District - this is the fourth war for Moiseev.

Now Major General Oleg Moiseev is a member of the command staff of the 29th Combined Arms Army, which is part of the Ground Forces of the Russian Federation and is stationed in the Trans-Baikal Territory with its administrative center in Chita.[quote]

From open sources.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Tima

From open sources.

However, he ate ryakha at government grub.

[UAZ 452]

You could say the highest form of formation is a parade. With the beginning of the Northern Military District, they began to prepare, at least cadets of military universities, for parades in January (before the Northern Military District they began at the end of February). When they have time to teach these cadets anything other than drill is a rhetorical question. Today I read that the Yars have already been transferred to the Moscow region to prepare for the parade:
https://iz.ru/1656261/2024-02-27/kolonna-pgrk-iars-nachala-marsh-v-podmoskove-dlia-podgotovki-k-paradu-pobedy
And preparations for the celebration of the 80th anniversary of the Victory in 2025 began in the summer of 2023.
Well, that is, not only “ordinary” troops, but also our Strategic Missile Forces now have as their main task to ride once a year on the paving stones of Red Square? Does everything else exist in this type of aircraft? Especially secure communications, without which all these missiles are just decoration? Or just like 70% of modern weapons and equipment in the ground forces and navy, which ultimately turned into the fighting T-55 and the cruiser "Moscow", which only had its chassis repaired (so that it could take its place in the parade line under its own power)?
With the beginning of the Northern Military District, the system - the state, the military - sharply intensified, gained momentum, but did so in the direction in which it was sharpened during those 10 years when the RF Armed Forces was ruled by a PR manager who replaced the accountant, that is, there were many times more formations, combatants inspections, appearance checks and maintaining reporting documentation. She was simply not focused on everything else. Alas.

[PavelKosse]

Participant in the 1981 parade in Kyiv, however. We walked along Khreshchatyk.
We started preparing in early September.
First one scratch a day. Since October one and a half. There were 4 or 5 training sessions on the runway to coordinate, as they say now, all the “boxes”.
Then 2 evening ones, already on Khreshchatyk.
November 7 parade. We managed to prepare in 2 months. Not bad, by the way.
It is not clear what the rocket men are doing now as part of their training.
We managed to do everything. Suvorov students have a full course of the school curriculum, plus military training. Well, including the parade.
I think the current cadets also manage to do everything.
The main thing is that there should be fewer idiots in the conditions of military operations. And those already existing will be put on trial.

[Doctor]

I remember the bearded one.

A boy from a remote village was finally drafted into the army. They never took it from there.
After serving, he came, the villagers surrounded him, come on, tell me how it is in the army.
- Tomorrow I’ll tell you and show you.
The next day, at 4 am, the main church bell rings. The village was alarmed, they gathered in the main square, wondering what was going on.
A boy crawls out from the bell tower:
- Did you want to see the army? My dad and I are getting some firewood, the rest - go away!

[Oleg133]

Impunity, and complete impunity, leads to more and more crimes being committed.

The idea of ​​government responsibility is recognized by the authorities of the Russian Federation as extremism

[Alex 1970]

When I served, there was a saying: The more “oaks” in the army, the stronger our defense, unfortunately, on the contrary, and this article is an eloquent example of this.

[nepunamemuk]

All that remains for “study” is to organize the formation of ALL generals near the LBS and “cover” them with highmars
maybe the next generals will be smarter

[Novel_]

Who will destroy “their own”??? At most, the drone will be sent loaded with dollars or cookies and a congratulatory “landing” will take place.

[Victal]

My grandfather fought quite a bit, from 1944, was wounded in 1945, lost an eye and was discharged. He talked about one soldier - at any rest stop he began to dig a shelter and hid there. Everyone made fun of him, saying that he was a coward, but then it turned out that he was the only one who survived from his company, formed in 1942.

[Vincent price]

Why do soldiers and junior officers carry out suicidal orders? This is where there is room for thought.

[ivan2022]

Quote from Vincent Price

Why do soldiers and junior officers carry out suicidal orders? This is where there is room for thought.

But among us, neither the higher nor the lower likes such reflections... In our country, they don’t like reflections at all.. . I've already done an experiment. Look, heh... heh... how they evaluate...

[Good Evil]

Quote: ivan2022

Why do soldiers and junior officers carry out suicidal orders?

Because - orders! For non-compliance - tribunal!

[S.Z.]

Combat regulations - in case of war. There is no war. The author's claims to the military leadership "on the ground" are not substantiated. There was no order to cancel the formation, there can be no complaints.

Failure to comply with the requirements of the charter, if discovered, will certainly lead to removal from office and an investigation, which can go according to any scenario.

PS when I served, the required formations were:
- before charging (without verification)
- before breakfast, lunch and dinner (without checking, just counting) and after breakfast, lunch and dinner (it seems, even without counting).
- before an evening walk (without counting)
- evening verification

Movement within the unit was permitted only in formation or running. I can’t imagine groups of fighters moving around a location without formation. Maybe you can also keep your hands in your pockets?

The army differs from the armed crowd in discipline, which is the strict implementation of the regulations.
"This army, son" (c)

[Tim]

Separate the flies from the cutlets!

[S.Z.]

Don’t confuse God’s gift with scrambled eggs.

The army is a complex system, governed by orders in a bureaucratic manner. If you want to stop the car, then it is useless to hold it by the wheel.

[Tim]

[/quote]Movement around the unit was allowed only in formation or running. I can’t imagine groups of fighters moving around a location without formation. Maybe you can also keep your hands in your pockets?[quote]

Try putting your hands in your pocket when you are wearing a bulletproof vest, ammunition plus small arms while moving or running on the LBS

[S.Z.]

"Try to put your hands in your pocket when you are wearing a bulletproof vest, ammunition plus small arms while moving or running on the LBS"

You are not aware - we are talking about a location that is 30 km from LBS. That's where it landed.

[Tim]

You are aware of the characteristics: M142 HIMARS (Eng. High Mobility Artillery Rocket System; Russian. Highly mobile artillery missile system - pron. Haymars [3]) - American multiple launch rocket system on a wheeled chassis. Cartridge GMLRS, MGM-140 ATACMS and Precision Strike Missile[d]
Caliber, mm 227
Rate of fire
shots / min 1, 2, 3, all 6
Sighting range, m from 2 km to 300 km
Maximum
range, m 300 km for
MGM-140 ATACMS
500 km for PrSM (from 2023)

[S.Z.]

Quote: Tima

You are aware of the characteristics: M142 HIMARS (Eng. High Mobility Artillery Rocket System; Russian. Highly mobile artillery missile system - pron. Haymars [3]) - American multiple launch rocket system on a wheeled chassis. Cartridge GMLRS, MGM-140 ATACMS and Precision Strike Missile[d]
Caliber, mm 227
Rate of fire
shots / min 1, 2, 3, all 6
Sighting range, m from 2 km to 300 km
Maximum
range, m 300 km for
MGM-140 ATACMS
500 km for PrSM (from 2023)

And?

[Tim]

I can answer like this)))

[S.Z.]

That's it, the arguments are over, the insults have begun :)

This vessel for thoughts also turned out to be empty :(

[Tim]

Read the text highlighting the damage radius of the M142 HIMARS,

[/quote] For guided missiles, HIMARS can use the GMLRS (Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System) M30/M31 with inertial and GPS guidance, providing a circular probable deviation (CEP, a measure of projectile impact accuracy) within 5-10 meters.

In addition, the installation can use AFOM (Army TACMS Family of Munitions) tactical ballistic missiles, which also include several types of ammunition with a range of 165–300 km.[quote]

I don’t know how else to explain it to you, you are a very far person from this topic)))

[BABAY22]

Quote: S.Z.

PS when I served,

I look at your checks and understand that you went to the self-propelled gun at any time of the day or night. The main thing is to show up for the evening inspection.

[S.Z.]

No, we almost didn’t go on the self-propelled gun - there was nowhere to go.

Around swamps and forests, 3 km to the village. forests. Only once did we go there, for a transfer to get vodka, in two groups - one got caught, the second completed the task.

On the other hand, our unit was constantly on duty, and if you wanted to go on self-propelled guns, you couldn’t get off duty just because of your sleep or food. There were no fools. And what is there to do in the village?

And, by the way, if verification is carried out for each formation, then you can be left without food.

[newtc7]

Quote: S.Z.

Combat regulations - in case of war. There is no war. The author's claims to the military leadership "on the ground" are not substantiated. There was no order to cancel the formation, there can be no complaints.

Failure to comply with the requirements of the charter, if discovered, will certainly lead to removal from office and an investigation, which can go according to any scenario.

PS when I served, the required formations were:
- before charging (without verification)
- before breakfast, lunch and dinner (without checking, just counting) and after breakfast, lunch and dinner (it seems, even without counting).
- before an evening walk (without counting)
- evening verification

Movement within the unit was permitted only in formation or running. I can’t imagine groups of fighters moving around a location without formation. Maybe you can also keep your hands in your pockets?

The army differs from the armed crowd in discipline, which is the strict implementation of the regulations.
"This army, son" (c)

If it's sarcasm, it's so-so, but if it's serious, the head needs to be treated.
This is not an army, this is a meaningless bureaucratic non-working cart.
The army is the one that fights, the one that stands on the parade ground - this is window dressing, PR, one might say, is such a dull army one.
In case of every situation, people have a head, and if there is a conflict between the “combat regulations” or discipline with the HEAD, then the decision must be made in favor of the head. And if you think differently, then you, your view of things and people like you are the very problem of our army and the country in general that needs to be eradicated.
Line up at the trench after lunch so that 155 mm can count you and check that everything is in place and then write down in a journal who was and who was not.

[S.Z.]

“In case of every situation, people have a head, and if there is a conflict between the “combat regulations” or discipline with the HEAD, then the decision must be made in favor of the head.”

You can, but only once, then you will be removed from your position.

This is an army, orders must be followed, and the charter is an order.

I'm not a problem for the army - I haven't served for a long time :)

Are you sure you served? By whom? You are speaking very naively.

[Alt 22]

“There is no war” - are you even adequate??? What do you call it when many hundreds of thousands of people kill each other in hundreds of different ways?
Not “there is no war” - but war has NOT been declared, but this does not mean that it “does not exist”, does not mean that there are no actual full-scale military operations!
It's people like you who killed 65 people - driving them out into formation within the range of enemy missiles!

[S.Z.]

“What do you call it when many hundreds of thousands of people kill each other in hundreds of different ways?”

NWO.

“That’s how you are, and you killed 65 people - driving them out into formation within the range of enemy missiles!”

No. They, like everyone else, were killed by those who do not know the business they are taking on.

And naive amateurs like you.

[Revolver]

And it doesn’t matter what motives such an officer acts from, the desire to curry favor with his superiors or anything else, it is important that he, the officer, the boss, is simply obliged to know Articles 42, 44 and 75 of the Internal Service Charter

And this, conditionally, captain clearly knows that if his subordinates during the formation do not demonstrate to the arriving high ranks a gallant appearance and, most importantly, one that fully complies with the drill regulations, then... "Captain, you will never be a major". But he really wants to become a major, and quickly, and if he’s lucky, then someday, at least for retirement, with the prefix “general-”.
And the worst thing is that, having become a general, or at least a major, he will demand the same from the captains subordinate to him, simply because he cannot imagine that it could be otherwise. He was taught as a cadet that it couldn’t and shouldn’t be any other way.

[DarkLiner]

In educational units, there is always a formation at least after getting up, evening check-in and before being sent anywhere (canteen or classrooms, etc.). We remember: “If you are all so smart, then why don’t you go to the dining room in formation?” And this is really true (I repeat, in textbooks). I was a course (company) foreman at a military university. Every year, when it was possible to send somewhere in groups (a platoon), I entrusted this to the group commanders. Line up and let's go. Sami. Apart.

[ivan2022]

The author wrote the most relevant article..... ++++
The fact is that any serf loves more than anything in the world to carry out orders. Absolutely anyone..... . This is generally a hell of a village.... The main thing is to report what has been done.... This is a kind of orgasm.
And the construction is a brilliantly simple way to satisfy the Master’s vanity and the Serf’s diligence.

Yes... everything in this World begins with love..... Even in its most perverted forms.

[Severok]

Unfortunately, this story will end the same way as the story with Serdyukov and Bulgakov, i.e. nothing... But it is necessary that both the general’s bottom and the commander of the unit who allowed this disgusting thing and the leadership of the Ministry of Defense be turned inside out! I personally stood in formation in 96-degree heat for two hours in 32, waiting for the boss’s ass to arrive. Since then, the attitude of superiors towards subordinates has not changed. For commanders in the army, subordinates = slave cattle.

[UAZ 452]

It was under Serdyukov that there were timid, half-hearted attempts to fight this stupidity, for which the generals began a war of extermination with him, having achieved his replacement with the swindler Shoigu.

[ivan2022]

Quote: UAZ 452

It was under Serdyukov that there were timid, half-hearted attempts to fight this stupidity, for which the generals began a war of extermination with him, having achieved his replacement with the swindler Shoigu.

If you work at a level no lower than Mishustin or Shoigu, then you need to justify.... How many generals are under your command? . And if not, aren’t you aiming too high for such a “top-down” look? But the “principled patriot” Serdyukov was definitely your subordinate, if you know him so well.....

The little people can only return to the publications of the 2000s...
Read : Putin perceived the expansion of NATO to the east in 2004, according to the Vedomosti newspaper, as a “personal betrayal” on the part of US President George W. Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair, whom Putin by that time considered his friends and with whom he strongly established partnerships...
It is not difficult to guess, and one of the “dumbheads,” Colonel General L. Ivashov, confirms that there were agreements at least on rapprochement with NATO, which made the fate of Russia dependent on “personal friendly relations.” But the real complication of relations between the Russian Federation and NATO began only after 08.08.2008/2007/XNUMX. And that’s when the “war with Serdyukov” began. Do you actually remember who appointed him in XNUMX?

[ivan2022]

The transfer of ground forces to a brigade basis “like in NATO” was probably planned by Serdyukov to fight the “stupid blockheads”? And the transfer to the service of the RF Armed Forces by civilian organizations, and the mass closure of military schools, and the new military uniform “from Yudashkin”, in which the soldiers froze? Wow, what bad generals we have!

[Galleon]

If you see the chest of the fourth in the ranks, it means you deeply love your Motherland!
Or earlier:
If you can't show off your mind, show off your buttons.
Soon we will all unanimously “vote” on the reports for the continuation of this nonsense and lies.

[Pavel57]

The SVO had to be supplemented with an order to organize activities according to combat regulations.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

"Not this way!" This phrase was in use among our chiefs of staff.
Charters and regulations require immediate adjustment to the conditions of modern military operations.
During hostilities, many provisions of peacetime regulations became hopelessly outdated, moreover, harmful and even criminal.

[Blue fox]

When responsibility for such formations and the death of personnel lies with the commanders, this is understandable. But when some, and even here, at VO, also try to blame the soldiers for this and reproach them about cell phones, it becomes clear that whoever we need is being whitewashed by such uncomrades. Of course, it’s easier to accuse soldiers of using mobile phones, and so what, they stood and waited resignedly in the ranks, but what rights does a soldier have in war? If you leave such a formation without permission, once or twice, then you can end up under the VP, and most importantly, senior officers of Laos can be exiled to certain death for this. I’m already silent about the junior officers, if they allow themselves to give the command and take their unit aside and disperse. After all, this is the sad reality of Laos, when they can be sent to attack the Zusuls without artillery support simply as punishment.
Well, it’s just funny about cell phones when the wearers of sweatpants themselves use them to the fullest in the jungles of Laos.

[Mikhail Toropov]

I don’t have a high opinion of Shoigu, but the army has always and everywhere been simply a reflection of the state and its management system as a whole. In the first 3 months, SVO received bans from almost all moderately patriotic TG channels for criticizing the top leadership of the RF Armed Forces, and especially the RF Ministry of Defense. In the last 1.5 years I have hardly written anything bad about people in stripes. Our army at the moment is exactly what the Supreme Commander-in-Chief obviously wants it to be. And our commander-in-chief is the one whom a large (maybe not 80%, but not a smaller) part of the population obviously wants to see in this role even after the last two years. And to criticize the army for the lack of change is a search for a switchman.

[BorzRio]

You wrote about what is possible, not the author. The author didn’t write about this, he deliberately re-read it again. So you are lying stupidly.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Precisely, during combat operations there should be no obligation to shave. And it’s also better not to give a damn about hygiene, especially in that part of it where they are trying to replace the lack of medicine with it.
And the maintenance of weapons should not be confused with shaving; they are fundamentally different phenomena.

[Ivan Mak_2]

Why is the option not being considered in which the officers, who turned their personnel into targets for an hour and a half, are recruited agents of the enemy?

[Dedok]

Quote: Stas157

We had a unique military school, Wagner, where it was not like in the army. But the “army” ultimately defeated her.

And we could adopt a lot of useful and effective things. Instead, there was a serious conflict and irreconcilable differences. The climax of the conflict was the “proposal” to sign a contract with the “army”. Everyone knows what came of it.

inertia of thinking - we won’t win if we don’t send everyone, including generals, under fire (at LBS) -
They won’t offer anything new after this, but at least they will be afraid to do everything that they allow themselves to do today...
and Wagner irritated them with this - new approaches based on the developing situation

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

You can’t imagine, but a lot of things in Prigozhin’s activities irritated me already two months before the mutiny.
For example, why did the former deputy? Minister of Defense Mizintsev, was included in the PMC leadership? By the way, what happened to him and where is he now?
Constant complaints about the lack of ammunition and the same constant threats to name the culprits, who, surprisingly, were never named!
Statements that certain paratroopers had nothing to do with it also caused surprise.
And speaking about Strelkov is completely beyond comprehension.
And the most surprising thing is that no one answered Prigozhin, according to his no less surprising statements.

[Navy7981]

The article actually causes extreme irritation and anger. When I started serving in 1978 it was the same!

[BorzRio]

In addition to the discussed topic of building enemy weapons in the affected area, there are many more extremely painful topics. Does everyone remember how crazy it was when videos and photos of beautiful new military equipment lined up in dense columns and rows in the fields and roads near the border with Ukraine in the winter of 2022 popped into the cart? Hundreds of tents in a field in one place with personnel? And then, on February 24, it was precisely in these columns that they entered enemy territory. And then they received the burned brigades and divisions almost to zero? How beautiful and stupid at the same time the missile cruiser Moscow stood right next to Zmeiny Island, although every taxi driver in Odessa knew about anti-ship missiles and BEC in Ukraine. How did they line up dozens of self-propelled guns, brand new, straight from the factory, in a field near the LBS? And then we watched them burn from precise landings. How did planes at airfields line up wing to wing, knowing that enemy drones would reach them? And so on. Hundreds of cases and examples. And every loss of life and equipment. Out of stupidity, and maybe out of betrayal. And in all these cases there is the name of the commander who gave the order to enter in dense long columns, to form rows of equipment in a heap, to approach the ancient flagship into the zone where the ancient flagship was damaged, and so on. There are surnames. And many of them are familiar to people in the military sphere. Who were they imprisoned?! Which one of them is now digging frozen soil in the disbat?! Most of them sat in their positions for a long time and many still received their epaulets, or even higher ones. And they also sleep at night easily and at ease. Showing off, false reports and licking the back of the seat to higher authorities have become the scourge of our army. All this led to the losses and unfulfilled tasks that we have.

[Mikhail Toropov]

Why did you drag the columns on February 24th? They entered beautifully, according to the plan approved by Putin, due to his absolute confidence that there would be no resistance as such. Here it makes no sense to blame anyone lower than Shoigu and Gerasimov. And perhaps it’s not even their fault, but those who so skillfully whispered in Vladimir Vladimirovich’s ear that the Ukrainian people would greet him there with flowers, all he had to do was cross the border.

[Stenolaz]

This topic has been going on for a week now. Another one added his two cents.

[tatra]

The enemies of the USSR, with their “freedom of speech”, which they so craved during the USSR, proved that they are incapable of discussing anything honestly, adequately, and objectively. That’s how they talk about what THEY did badly, they immediately cowardly “turn the tables” - “and we have nothing to do with it, it’s the communists and security officers who are to blame,” “and we have nothing to do with it, this happened in the USSR, until now Let's unravel."

[75 Sergey]

Everything should be in moderation and in the right place.
Construction is an element of control of discipline and order.
Of course, it is stupid to form a formation at the front, but in the rear, to prevent elements of relaxation and other things, formation is necessary, of course, without informing in advance about the place and time, and of course not in the same place and not at the same time.
Okay, we need to move a company/platoon from point A to point B, can the platoon be brought together? What about the company? How to load personnel?
Anyway.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

If we take something positive from the experience of combat operations in Afghanistan, it is the almost exemplary interaction with artillery and aviation during combat operations and in general during the conduct of combat operations.
But, haven’t you realized that the enemy is using all of NATO’s reconnaissance capabilities and their long-range fire weapons, and that formations and concentrations even in the rear have become dangerous?

[vovochkarzhevsky]

If we take something positive from the experience of combat operations in Afghanistan, it is the almost exemplary interaction with artillery and aviation during combat operations and in general during the conduct of combat operations.

Everything needs to be taken there.

But, haven’t you realized that the enemy is using all of NATO’s reconnaissance capabilities and their long-range fire weapons, and that formations and concentrations even in the rear have become dangerous?

The question is, what in return, the crowd? This only makes it worse. Disguise means must be used more and wisely.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Here again there are some confusions. You are essentially at war with a computer program from the United States, with artificial intelligence. Artificial intelligence detects a cluster from a satellite or drone, analyzes the cluster of cellular signals and radio communication sources, then performs target designation based on reconnaissance data. You won't be able to hide a large concentration from the AI. If only because, according to radio direction finding data, additional reconnaissance of the area will be carried out. Only bad weather and complete radio silence on the air can somehow protect you.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

What, some religion prohibits turning off cellular communications before building? In my opinion, cell phones have no place at all on the front lines. In addition to cases of sending false signals in order to deceive this very AI.
And a short formation in compliance with the rules of visual camouflage and radio silence is many times faster and more effective than delivering the necessary information via communications.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

So it is so, so it is of course, but if something happens, then it’s up to you.
Does anyone allow cellular communications? Or is someone against radio silence during formations?

[vovochkarzhevsky]

So it is so, so it is of course, but if something happens, then it’s up to you.
Does anyone allow cellular communications? Or is someone against radio silence during formations?

Well, as I expected. And it’s true, who am I to argue with Roman Skomorokhov himself?
So I’ll stop all discussions here for now. All the same, this is an empty matter, and I don’t have much time.
I don’t know if I’ll return here, but obviously not in the near future.

[vladimmiroff]

You are stuck in the 19th-20th century, now each soldier has his own means of communication, have you heard about combat tactical tablets? Warrior, etc. Why fence a garden? It is needed in a parade, not in battle. And the task can be completed with the help of communications and communicators. If drones and high-mars fly into any crowd of more than three people, you need to change approaches. Roman is right.

[Vadim S]

There are quite a few offended people sitting here, though it hurts everyone’s eyes, they’re minus and they throw complaints, your life is coming to an end anyway, the young people reshape and break everything in their own way, and it’s only for the better!

[Mihail55]

Quote from turembo

This problem exists not only in the army; we really like all sorts of ostentatious things. When more than half of your working day is spent on useless planning sessions and meetings instead of work, this is not normal. And we always don’t care that the preparation is lame, but badges and boots should shine, apparently in the minds of many people, the ideal attack on the enemy takes place with a menacing march, with a stamped step, and blinding the enemy with the shine of boots and the whiteness of waffle towels, oh, and even the light of clean-shaven cheeks..

Right to the point!!! In the army and in today's working life! We do several times less than in the USSR...but planning meetings, meetings and reports!!!

[Diverter]

The reasons for the tragedy described in the article have already been identified.
And the reason is that the soldiers, as always, ignore the orders of their commanders.
the real reason for the tragedy is the presence of a mass of switched-on phones with SIM cards from other regions of the Russian Federation.
All SIM cards are tracked very clearly in the NWO zone. Therefore, when the commander said to turn off the phones and not use them, then turn them off and not use them.
My deep couch opinion.
All construction is prohibited in the area where the SVO is taking place.
In the rest of the country, the maximum unit built is a department.
For the entire duration of the SVO.
Conduct drill training, but in an adequate amount of time.
Change the daily routine. I am for lights out at 21.00 and wake up at 04.00

[Igor1915]

I wonder how those who are going to their own should react to this. That is, your life does not depend on you, but on the competence of your commander, and then who will you end up with.

[Non-fighter]

From my own memories.
Typical day
Getting up under the control of the “support shift”, physical exercise (depending on the weather), in short, just running in formation along the pier back and forth in order to knock out sleep.
Breakfast, formation in front of it.
Raising the flag.
Lunch, formation in front of it.
Formation after the "admiral's hour".
Dinner, line up in front of him.
Evening tea, again with formation.
Lights out, under the control of the “support shift”.
This is the Navy, year 1992.
For what? If the sailor missed the formation, then the worst is assumed - an emergency, the sailor is dead/unconscious, he must be rescued. Although in 95% of cases the sailor escaped/or got dirty because of the NUV, this form of protest got old. Absence at the first formation - they are looking for the whole unit. On the second - a report to the top, a drill is announced in order to search for sailor Pupkin.
Although... there were tragedies. In the fall of 1990, tanks were cleaned at the Bezuprechny ship in front of the BS. Two Gavriks were missing at tea - no. They remembered that they were cleaning the tank, looked - they were both lying there, they had inhaled. Two of them climbed up to save them, as they were, in their robishkas. In short, four people were in the “bad” tank. Those who were rescued were pumped out, the “rescuers”, alas, the guys went to early demobilization in zinc boxes.

[Vladimir_D]

It's not really a matter of construction. The point is the regular concentration of personnel in the same place. The reason for the concentration can be anything: information, educational and methodological classes, verification of personnel, distribution in the field kitchen, issuance of ammunition, etc. Another thing is that the enemy, having become familiar with such a pattern (regular gatherings in the same place), prepares for it himself.

[Alexander Simonov_2]

Until they introduce execution and life imprisonment for issuing such ridiculous orders, this will continue to happen. This is how my second cousin died in the Totsk brigade on November 15th. 40 km from the front line. We stood there for half an hour. We lined up. Not a single officer. What was it? Criminal intent? 58 two hundredths out of 130 people. And how many more died in the hospital later, including Leshka. If some smart guy gave the order to build up so close to the front line, that means he is an enemy, that means he’s immediately expendable!

[AdAstra]

And I personally remember how at the tank biathlon, when the tank drove up to the firing position and the tanks, when they got out of it, they did not immediately start loading ammunition, but lined up and only then loaded it. And I always had a silent question: in war they will do the same, especially when time is pressing.

[陈乐为]

In addition, every time the Chinese team encounters a “mine”.
In addition, there were strange penalties.
Well, Russian tankers are the best and they always take first place.

[AdAstra]

Not really, but oh well.

[AdAstra]

"Ku" - understood (Chatlan-Patsak dictionary)

[Galina Mylnikova]

Gentlemen, officers, bring your ministry and the Supreme Commander to life! It feels like a warring country is mowing the grass to the well-known chorus. Festivals, games, the Ministry of Defense has overtaken the YARS for the parade... Like, we don’t care about all THEIR coalitions on long-range weapons. Maybe stop fussing and hand out bread and circuses?

[Radical]

Quote: Dutchman Michel

Well, there is also a rise in 45 seconds and drill training, where you have to pull your heel...

If you served in the army, then you had a bad sergeant who taught you to "pull your heels." In order for the marching step to be beautiful and correct, “pull” not the heel, but the toe, so that the leg rests on the full foot when lowering to the surface. Well, if you didn’t serve, then...

[tolancop]

1. I agree with the author of the material that there is a LOT of imbecility in the army. As well as irresponsibility. It’s wartime, but we behave in many ways as in peacetime. Those who are on the front line reformed quite quickly, but the command, especially those who come “to war” to check in, apparently, simply do not want to rebuild. And, unfortunately, simply sending these “commanders” to a known address will not work. It is still possible to come to an agreement with a combative and reasonable officer, since he will perceive the arguments correctly, but you cannot come to an agreement with some staff rat. She (this rat) climbed up over their heads, not so that all sorts of scum would tell them how to lead CORRECTLY. It would be indicative to send a dozen of these “commanders” to court for the results of their activities, but... dreams, dreams. And they don’t allow criticism so that their criminal activities don’t come out.
2. About constructions. The army is based on discipline and building of all kinds; this is a NECESSARY element of army life. Of course, there is no need to bring it to the point of absurdity. There are a lot of formations in the daily routine given in the material, but... they actually could not be written down, since they happen “automatically”. Breakfast, lunch and dinner - already 6 formations, since there is no crowd going to and from the dining room. And these formations take less than a minute: we quickly lined up and went. I know what I’m writing about, I myself took my company to the canteen and to the park, etc. during It. In what empty head did it occur to write down these formations in a routine? - I don’t know, but this head is definitely empty. And most likely this head is the next inspector “from above”. It’s easier for a company sergeant to mentally spit and rewrite the routine than to argue with another inadequate person. But in reality, everything will happen AS IT SHOULD. The piece of paper must hang in the right place, let it hang, no one reads it anyway, except for the next inspector. In my time (early 80s) and my unit there were only 3 regular large (noticeable formations) during the day: morning check-in, afternoon check-in and evening roll check (and even then it could have been carried out in the barracks, but in my unit it was customary conduct it on the parade ground with the formation of the entire part). A separate daily structure for the daily outfit. AND ALL!!! The rest is little things that you can’t live without, but don’t deserve mention.

[tolancop]

Quote: Dutchman Michel

This is why it is held

Don't write nonsense. The rise in 45 seconds is not carried out for drill training, to which it has nothing to do. And 45 seconds to rise are needed in order to quickly and orderly escape from the barracks in the event of an alarm.

[newtc7]

Quote: tolancop

Quote: Dutchman Michel

This is why it is held

Don't write nonsense. The rise in 45 seconds is not carried out for drill training, to which it has nothing to do. And 45 seconds to rise are needed in order to quickly and orderly escape from the barracks in the event of an alarm.

Yeah, get out of the camp and line up on the parade ground

[newtc7]

Quote from: newtc7

Quote: tolancop

Quote: Dutchman Michel

This is why it is held

Don't write nonsense. The rise in 45 seconds is not carried out for drill training, to which it has nothing to do. And 45 seconds to rise are needed in order to quickly and orderly escape from the barracks in the event of an alarm.

Yeah, get out of the camp and line up on the parade ground

For some reason, the site does not accept emoticons from phones, only local ones. Technology from 95.
After all, no one will attack the parade ground; it is protected by the god of war himself. There are no people visible there; they blend into the parade ground.
But seriously, this is just army tourism which has nothing to do with combat operations. Just an opportunity for officers to stroke their egos and gain the illusion of control over the soldiers

[Grim Reaper]

Yeah, get out of the camp and line up on the parade ground
+ + + + + +
Our entire unit, in the event of a drill, did not line up on the parade ground. Everyone knew what to do and how to arrive at the vehicle depot, airfield as quickly as possible and take their seats awaiting orders on what to do next.

[newtc7]

The whole point is that jackets and in general the officers in power absolutely love this business. Nowhere do they feel their power as fully as at the moment when a hundred or two male soldiers stand at attention and obey their orders.
The problem is precisely this, because if you remove the formations, the power of the officers becomes less obvious and invisible to the eye.
Therefore, all the problems come from the passions of these little people.
P.S. When I served in 2008-2009, in the first six months, it felt like 30-40 percent of the time was spent on the parade ground. No one will say why, it’s just the stupidity of the army that will probably never get over driving. The time on the parade ground exceeded the time devoted to any kind of combat training (shooting there, dogs) by a factor of 5. This is the bottom, the bottom, but the officers like them without it like without a drug

[AdAstra]

Yes, it happens that the “jackets” in the army behave much more intelligently than the “indigenous” personnel.

[lambert]

How can I answer you about the constructions? If a serviceman was not found during the formation, there are two options: he ran home or hit the girls, but for some reason the second one is found in a pigsty in a noose. The company commander after he takes him to his parents and learns everything about himself from them. Then, as a rule, they are removed from office. Therefore, there are no more than two formations forward along the path of Comrade Skoromokhov. We’ll immediately get rid of all the fools in the army and reduce the number of conscripts. And enemies too.

[tolancop]

Quote: ivan2022

The fact is that the purpose of any army in the world is to protect the Law. And in the Soviet oath the word Law was not mentioned even once. But we were talking about an order to “come to the defense...” which was not there at the right time

Lies!!! The purpose of the army is to defend the Motherland. Homeland is a broad concept, including people, state, territory, interests, etc.
And there are other bodies to protect the Law. And, by the way, in the Soviet Oath the word “law” is included: “... if I violate this solemn oath of mine, then let the severe punishment of the Soviet law .. "

[alebdun2000]

What do the comrades say, if the combat soldiers on the front line are herded into a herd and they stand like sheep for 1.5 hours, fully aware of what this entails... then maybe it’s their own fault that they didn’t send their commander to X* with that general from headquarters? Take it, get out of line and move away, about 700 meters. What will they do to him? They will send you to the front, it’s not those times, not 41 years. If the orders of the stupid lizards cost me my life, then fuck it all. Dying while attacking enemy trenches is one thing. But to give your life for free like this is idiotic

[newtc7]

Quote: alebdun2000

What do the comrades say, if the combat soldiers on the front line are herded into a herd and they stand like sheep for 1.5 hours, fully aware of what this entails... then maybe it’s their own fault that they didn’t send their commander to X* with that general from headquarters? Take it, get out of line and move away, about 700 meters. What will they do to him? They will send you to the front, it’s not those times, not 41 years. If the orders of the stupid lizards cost me my life, then fuck it all. Dying while attacking enemy trenches is one thing. But to give your life for free like this is idiotic

It's easy to say when you're on the couch. And when at the front an order is an order and it must be carried out.
The question is not for the soldiers; the question is for the officers. The soldiers can only be praised for the fact that they carried out the order at the cost of their lives

[vladimmiroff]

Quote: S.Z.

Combat regulations - in case of war. There is no war. The author's claims to the military leadership "on the ground" are not substantiated. There was no order to cancel the formation, there can be no complaints.

Failure to comply with the requirements of the charter, if discovered, will certainly lead to removal from office and an investigation, which can go according to any scenario.

PS when I served, the required formations were:
- before charging (without verification)
- before breakfast, lunch and dinner (without checking, just counting) and after breakfast, lunch and dinner (it seems, even without counting).
- before an evening walk (without counting)
- evening verification

Movement within the unit was permitted only in formation or running. I can’t imagine groups of fighters moving around a location without formation. Maybe also keep your hands in your pockets (c)

This is stupidity, they move in formation. Oh, and such losses. When I served, we walked around the unit, alone or together, and didn’t build anything, what nonsense.

[vladimmiroff]

The rest is little things that you can’t live without, but which don’t deserve mention.

Why can’t it be, if the commander is a leader, the soldiers will follow him without any formations, especially in the North Military District zone... And if he is not a leader, then he has no place as a commander. And the constructions are an atavism. The inertia of thinking does not allow the military to move away from the templates.... Yeah...

[Stone Mason]

He said everything correctly...

[polar bear]

I think the construction will not be cancelled. After all, without them, high management and inspectors won’t have half the work, and it’s more difficult for lower management to make a career. To cancel the formations, it is necessary to expel fools and idlers from the army. And this is an impossible task.

[16112014nk]

The colonel lined up the soldiers on the parade ground:
- - In short, the task is this, everyone picked up crowbars and began to sweep the parade ground!

Voice out of order:
- - Comrade Colonel, maybe take brooms, it will be faster and cleaner?
Colonel:
- - But I don’t need it to be clean, I need you to

[Alexander_First]

Drill training is an atavism of the 18th century and early 19th century. It had practical meaning when troops attacked the enemy in formation columns. Then, one of the criteria for the combat effectiveness of troops was hp skills. in drill training. In the 21st century, this is a "fun" activity at best. Hours spent on ballet (shagistics) are “stolen” from combat training. It is very convenient for commanders of different levels to hide their professional incompetence behind formations and marching. Western armies abandoned shagistics. The soldier does not go on the attack in marching steps and singing. If our "marshals" passionately desire to contemplate the marching troops. Then let them form a parade battalion or brigade, if this is not enough, a division. And they march with this “army” 7 days a week. The remaining troops must undergo real training for combat operations.

[storm]

If our "marshals" passionately desire to contemplate the marching troops. Then let them form a parade battalion or brigade, if this is not enough, a division. And they march with this “army” 7 days a week.

And it is advisable to assemble a ceremonial “army” of the same staff slackers who sit in their pants all day long and need stepping exercises as a cure for physical inactivity.....

[Alt 22]

The enemies of the people are not only those who drive personnel out to formations within the reach of enemy weapons - but also those mongrels who excuse these idiots. Really enemies.

[Apis1962]

The formation before eating has a “deep” meaning: march in formation to the dining room, line up at the department table and, upon hearing the command “start eating,” eat the imposed slop so as not to feel the taste of the slop. At the end, hear the command “finish eating” and, regardless of the end of the action, leave the catering unit in formation.

[VZEM100]

do not trust personnel

[storm]

Couldn’t the General’s entourage leak information to the dill about the place of his visit...
The general didn’t come for some reason, but the Khaymars definitely arrived...
If the general was covered, you’ll see that the Defense Ministry was “itching”, but the war will write off everything....

[ln_ln]

Drill is an exercise in coordination of movements, and it has a place in KMB.

[Evgeny Popov_3]

Judging by the drone video from Trudovskoye, there was no formation there

[Grim Reaper]

I might forget something. But in the entire USSR it was something like this.
6.00 Get up
6.00, (on readiness) formation in the barracks.
6.00-6.10 toilet.
6.10-7.00 physical exercise (running for about 30 minutes, exercises with apparatus)
7.00-8.00 Personal hygiene, sewing collars, etc.
8.00-8.30 breakfast
8.30-9.00 formation. Distribution of outfits.
9.00 - 9.30 Formation at the battalion headquarters.
9.30 -13.00 Everyone completes the assigned tasks.
13.00-16.00 Everyone performs the tasks assigned by the company commander. Those assigned to the outfit are sleeping
16.00 17.00 Formation.
17.00 change of outfits
17 00-20. No one does anything, while pretending that the fate of the universe depends on him
20 Dinner. (Hello pollock with mashed potatoes)
I still don’t understand why my wife doesn’t like pollock fried until crispy.
20.30 - onwards. Free time.
Well, something like this . Oh, yes, I missed lunch, well, whoever served, stick it in between 12 and one in the afternoon.
Military unit 01111 Volochaevka airfield

[Goldmitro]

Staging a show with formations in open areas, under the cameras of enemy drones and the sights of their own missiles, is a war crime.

Or blatant criminal unprofessionalism, which should also be punished as a war crime!

[solar]

the Charters, Combat and Drill, should have stood before our eyes, on which, as on two pillars (okay, the third is the Guard)

The author at this point forgot about the fourth - Internal Service, the one about construction. Part two, Internal order.
(Later in the text, the author still recalls the Charter of the Internal Service)

[volgast1970]

Since the beginning of the Northern Military District, such stupidity has been committed by our “brave” commanders. Maybe like in the time of Frederick the Great, in a dense column, with bayonets at an advantage, to the gallant music and on the attack. And the commander, a little to the side and in front, with a saber drawn down and forward, at-two-complete anarchism. Already in those days a point-blank blow of buckshot carried out battalions. Where are your brains, gentlemen officers? You studied, including at the General Staff Academy. I repeat!!! take off your shoulder straps! A three-line rifle without a bayonet, 3-5 rounds of ammunition for it, and be kind enough to storm enemy positions in the first three or five attack aircraft. the second option is execution with confiscation of all property! But you definitely should eat your head there and wear your cap. It's better to shoot yourself - this is the 3rd option!

[grossmeister2013]

So it wouldn’t hurt people with “authority” to write and send by courier a collective letter to Putin about organizing an investigation and punishing the perpetrators (traitors). Otherwise they will talk and forget until the next betrayal.

[Vladimirius]

alas, but both before and now in the army the rule prevails (if you are not in the trenches) - no matter what you do, as long as...

[cat Rusich]

My opinion...
Formation in a peacetime army is necessary in the morning - to check the availability of soldiers and distribute tasks for the coming day. And in the evening - to make sure that all the soldiers are present.
In wartime or in a zone fighting - construction PROHIBIT.
In fact, “formation” in the army is necessary for the commander to demonstrate his own power - the soldiers stand stretched out in the ranks and listen, catching every word of the commander...

[Whishmaster]

And it is so. There are no buildings in the area, there is simply nowhere to build. Constructions are mandatory in the training, I completely agree with you. But even there they turn a blind eye. We had (in training) - our platoon unloaded an armored vehicle, four Urals, 200 -250 boxes. We were tired as hell and didn’t go out for the evening, the commander got off with a verbal scolding. I don’t like it myself, but the construction is necessary so that people don’t forget who they are...

[Sibiryak70region]

In ordinary life and society, nothing has changed for the better since the beginning of the SVO. Why should the army change? There is unprofessionalism, sabotage and stupidity all around. Only executions of the guilty will save Russia

[Frank Muller]

It is very difficult to force command personnel, accustomed to ceremonial inertia and military display, to exist according to the laws of war. In addition, one gets the impression that not everyone is imbued with an understanding of what is going on, uh... No, they are, perhaps, confident that only some kind of “special operation” is still underway, and this is not a war at all, and that means : Peaceful bylaws remain in force.

[Stenolaz]

When a person who has not served in the army for a single day begins to talk about how to organize the service, you want to send him to “shit,” that is, to clean the barracks toilet. People like the author of this article help.