Offensive mining

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Offensive mining
ISDM "Agriculture". An effective system, but, in general, there is such inconsistency in weapons, as with us, this is a mistake. Photo: Wikipedia


While criticizing the Russian command for insufficient attention to isolating the combat area, one cannot help but admit that active efforts are being made in this direction; another thing is that this is often the initiative of commanders and commanders at various levels on the ground, and not the central apparatus of the Ministry of Defense or GSH.



As a result, generals at the front are often forced to solve their problems with unsuitable tools.

One of these unsuitable tools is the existing forces and means of remote mine-laying, primarily due to the way their use is organized.

Both the Russian Armed Forces and the Ukrainian Armed Forces widely use remote mining in various forms. In Russia, traditionally prone to creating various types of “miracle weapons,” they even created a special system for this purpose, known under the code OCD, within the framework of which it was developed - “Agriculture.”

Theoretically, in addition to this system, Russian troops can resort to remote laying of mines using the Grad, Uragan, Smerch MLRS and their modern versions.

In practice, the potential of remote mining in an offensive is not fully used, which, like any flaw, leads to unnecessary losses on our part.

Remote minelaying can also be carried out aviation, but in light of the problems with air defense suppression that Russian aviation faces and its inability to solve them, the issue of air strikes is best left for later.

But it is possible to sharply increase the efficiency of mine laying by the Ground Forces now, for which it is first worth paying attention to what and how is being done at the present time.

The roots of our problems


It’s unpleasant to say, but one of the characteristic features of everything we do is the craving for actions that are not fully thought out.

If it is not clear how this relates to the war, then we can remember on what assessments the hopes of the political leadership regarding the launch of a special military operation (SVO) in Ukraine were based. Have they been thought through? Were there any rash actions in this regard?

Thoughtless, “raw” decisions are our “brace.” With remote mining, this flaw in our mentality manifested itself very, very clearly.

To understand this, let’s first take a short look at how the problem of remote mining was solved, for example, by the Americans.

First, and this is a fundamental difference from us: for the United States, remotely controlled mines are weapons primarily of artillery and aviation, which are used by combined arms and air commanders as part of the American mine doctrine.

The mines used for remote laying are part of the FASCAM family - Family of Scatterable Mines, translated as “family of scatterable mines”. It includes:

Remote Anti-Armor Mine System (RAAMS) - anti-tank mines loaded into a 155-mm artillery shell (9 pieces per shell). They are used against us in Ukraine.

Area Denial Artillery Munition (ADAM) - anti-personnel mines loaded into 155 mm shells (36 pieces per shell).

GATOR mine system - mines for massive deployment from the air.

Volcano mine system (various vehicles) is an analogue of our UZMs, used to create defense lines, we are not interested in this topic, since the Russian Armed Forces are doing more or less well with such mining, and this article is not about these systems.

GEMSS mine system (various vehicles) - the same.

Modular Pack Mine System (MOPMS) - similar to the previous two in principle of operation, but a small-sized, man-portable system that, on command, “disperses” 17 anti-personnel and 4 anti-tank mines. Direct analogue of domestic PKM-1.

The last three systems on the list are defensive. Aviation has already been mentioned, but how the first two systems used in artillery are used is of considerable interest. Here is how the purpose of remote mining systems is defined in English-language sources:

“Family of Dispersible Mines (FASCAM) is an umbrella term for a number of U.S. military systems that allows the maneuver commander to quickly deploy mines as a situational obstacle; as a backup option for setting obstacles; and directly attack enemy formations, depriving them of the opportunity to continue the maneuver as intended (disrupt), forcing them to stop in place (fix), forcing them to turn around and retreat (turn) and blocking (block) [for example, by surrounding them on all sides with mines or mining the only road on both sides of the enemy, depriving him of the opportunity to escape - A.T.]. Modern fuses, sensors and anti-jamming devices allow scattered mines to repel enemy attempts to reduce and/or clear a minefield.”

So, as we see, among the Americans, mines are a means of the “commander controlling the maneuver [of troops]” (de facto combined arms), which allows him to create “situational” obstacles for the enemy (that is, those the creation of which may be required by a changing situation) or destroy it completely.

That is, this is a weapon that is used by a combined arms commander in maneuver combat, and, within the framework of this formulation, it is not considered exclusively defensive.

At the same time, however, in the “Doctrine of Mine and Mine Countermeasures Operations” (FM 20-32) of the US Army, mines, as indicated, serve as a “defensive weapon”, but can be used as an offensive weapon.

Details can be found in the 517-page document (search for “FM 20-32 Mine/Countermine Operations”, English). This document may be outdated, but the amount of information about mine warfare cannot fail to impress.


M731 ADAM 155mm artillery round used by the US Army. The diagram shows segmented M72 anti-personnel mines


Application of a shot - 36 mines are scattered from a projectile in the fall, then pieces of wire (7 pieces) are thrown out from each mine, touching which with anything will lead to the mine exploding, and the detonation itself - the mine jumps up, detonation with the formation of approximately 600 fragments, each of which has a speed of 900 m/s

In our country, mine warfare is one of those subjects that “haven’t been thought through.”

On the one hand, Soviet industry could easily give domestic artillery the same capabilities that US and NATO artillery had and still has. Adjusted for the fact that our 152 mm projectile is smaller and the 203 mm projectile is less accurate, but still.

In addition, missiles for multiple launch rocket systems, equipped with mines, both anti-personnel and anti-tank, have long been created by the domestic industry and adopted by the Armed Forces.

There are regulations that specify how they should be applied. I have experience using it.

But we don’t have a solid mine warfare doctrine hammered into the head of every lieutenant. Moreover, in the “Rules of Shooting and Fire Control” of artillery, the existence of rockets with mine equipment is simply mentioned, and that’s all. It is difficult to imagine the organizational use of such ammunition at the level of, for example, a brigade commander.

On the other hand, for some reason, the engineering troops have their own system, separate from the artillery, known under the code “Agriculture”. And again, these units of engineering troops in the offensive of some motorized rifle brigade will definitely not be used to solve tactical problems for organizational reasons.

Here it is necessary to note from a technical point of view that instead of the notorious “Agriculture”, MLRS with appropriate ammunition could and should have been used - this would have saved a lot of money and spread the practice of remote mining far beyond the boundaries of the engineering troops. But they did it as they did it.

In fact, in our case, the situation with remote mining looks like this. There are 300-mm missiles for Smerch, filled with both anti-tank mines and PFM-1 anti-personnel “petals”.

But "Smerchs" mainly belong to the artillery of the RGK. In theory. In practice, the author knows of one case when these MLRS were assigned to a battalion, and not because it was necessary to solve a combat mission, but because they simply had to be attached somewhere. This, of course, is an exception and an anomaly, but, again, such cases do not contribute to the competent use of forces and means.


300-mm 9M527 rocket with a warhead equipped with anti-tank mines. Picture: Rosoboronexport

Naturally, when in the PSiU about remote mining there are three mentions of the type “this happens,” and the units themselves with 300-mm MLRS are distributed along the front by the decision of at least the group command, then they will rarely solve tactical problems, if at all. In addition, ammunition for Smerch is very expensive.

There is the possibility of remote mining using the Uragan MLRS, the 220-mm rockets of which can have a cluster warhead equipped with anti-tank and anti-personnel mines.

Analysis of the range of 220-mm rockets filled with mines is available here to register:, the Hurricane missiles differ fundamentally from other rockets with mines only in the number of mines.

And, apparently, it is the use of these MLRS that mainly ensures remote mining. But here organizational and doctrinal problems arise - firstly, although the Ukrainian Armed Forces complain about remote laying of mines, there is not a single evidence that, apart from some losses in such minefields, mining managed to disrupt any important actions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces when they were defending themselves , for example, to disrupt the transfer of reserves somewhere or the withdrawal of troops from the threat of encirclement. Thus, in some Ukrainian sources one could find complaints about the use of remote mining near Avdiivka, but this did not disrupt the withdrawal of the main forces of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

Secondly, there is not a single evidence of the systematic and massive use of this type of mining by the Russian army on the offensive. Well, not everywhere there are such MLRS.

The use of the Grad MLRS for remote mining does not seem rational - a Grad rocket can contain either 5 anti-personnel mines or three anti-tank mines, which is very little.


Anti-tank mine PTM-3 - the main anti-tank mine for remote mining

To understand, one “package” of “Smerch” of 16 rockets allows you to deploy 300 PTM-3 anti-tank mines at a range of up to 70 kilometers, while the “Grad”, firstly, has a lower range, and secondly, in order to deploy the same number of mines, 100 rockets are needed with the ammunition load of one installation being 40 pieces. In total, three vehicles should fire, which will have a total of 20 missiles left for all of them after this (for example, two will fire the entire “package”, and one will fire half).

Together with the short range compared to Smerch and Uragan, the lack of a clearly defined mine warfare doctrine for combined arms commanders and the availability of rockets of the required type in 100% of cases, these features of the Grad lead to the fact that remote Mining is used rarely and unsystematically.

And "Agriculture". The system is in service with the engineering troops; there are no units of these troops with these installations - there is no mining using the specified method.

In general, we have the same thing with remote mining as with everything else - there are some means, some are effective, some are not, there is a certain number of specialists, there are different weapon systems in service with different branches of the military, but there is no system.

And even the unsystematic use of these means in defense is used much more often than in the offensive.

Meanwhile, the massive regular use of remote mining in an offensive can have a very serious effect. It is worth outlining the contours of this.

Mines as an offensive weapon


Encyclopedia of the Ministry of Defense tells uswhat a minefield it is:

“A section of terrain, infrastructure, objects on which mines are installed in a certain order. M.p. intended for creating minefields, destroying manpower and equipment, and destroying objects.”

Moreover, even in this definition there is no concept of what barriers are actually needed for. It’s clear that any commander understands why, but, firstly, in a slightly different way, and secondly, without theory there is and cannot be full-fledged practice of using these barriers. Especially on the offensive.

Let's give our own understanding to the question.

A remotely installed minefield (using MLRS and remote mining systems) is a means of preventing enemy forces from maneuvering. The goals of setting up such a minefield are both to prevent enemy forces from maneuvering in one direction or another, and to force the enemy to maneuver in the desired advancing direction. A special case of this is forcing enemy forces to stop moving and stop, blockade in a given area of ​​terrain, etc.

The remotely deployed minefield must be monitored. Enemy engineering units attempting to make passages through it must immediately open fire.

Unmanned aerial vehicles can be used for surveillance, and attack UAVs, mortars, artillery, MLRS and other means, if necessary, can be used to destroy enemy engineering units.


Since in our concept, remote laying of mines is controlled by a combined arms commander, and they are carried out by subordinate rocket artillery units (and in the future, perhaps, barrel artillery), then such use of minefields does not pose any problems, everything is done according to a single plan, within the framework of one and the same idea.

What does the practical implementation of such a scheme give?

Firstly, this makes it disproportionately easier to solve the problem of isolating the battlefield. When the road along which the enemy is transferring reserves under fire is one story, when in principle it is impossible to drive along it - another.

In addition, there can be a lot of roads - forest, field, etc., and in dry weather the entire area becomes a road, and here mines are the optimal means. The banal exclusion of enemy reserves from the attacked position or attacked area for several days, if carried out systematically, allows us to significantly reduce the losses of our troops.

The second advantage that this method of action provides is the ability to direct the enemy’s movement in the desired direction.

It is known that proper use of terrain often greatly simplifies the solution of combat missions.

Thus, defense in narrow defiles, between, for example, swamps, mountains, etc., is much more stable, all other things being equal, than defense in open tank-accessible terrain without elevation changes.

But what if we are talking about the need to drive the enemy into a “fire bag” precisely on tank-accessible, flat terrain?

This is where the “American” method comes in handy—creating “situational” obstacles to troop maneuver by quickly “sowing” mines in the directions in which the enemy needs to be prevented from moving, and ensuring oneself the ability to hit his sapper units in any attempt to clear mines in these directions , you can send his troops to where it will be convenient to meet them, driving them into “corridors” between minefields.

Finally, massive remote mining with simultaneous fire control over minefields makes it possible to prevent the withdrawal of enemy troops.

This is especially valuable in conditions when troops advance slowly and encirclement maneuvers are not possible. Without preventing the retreat, the enemy, although with losses, will leave. Even artillery shelling of his columns does not guarantee anything - vehicles will leave the roads and move to the sides, personnel will dismount and run away, abandoning their equipment.

Covering a retreating column with both anti-tank and anti-personnel mines will leave the enemy no other options other than to die or try to surrender by giving signals drones.

Simply because it will be impossible to move either with your feet or with the vehicle, and if you fail to surrender, then the entire unit on the march will be calmly and methodically finished off with the combined use of FPV-drones, artillery, MLRS and other means, and it will be possible to completely destroy all equipment, to such a state that it cannot be restored by striking at it repeatedly.

The use of such tools in an offensive will make the ratio of losses in offensive operations more favorable for the RF Armed Forces, and the offensives themselves will proceed faster.

Organizational and technical problems


All of the above is simple and at the first stage can be implemented with the equipment available in the troops, namely the MLRS “Grad”, “Tornado-G”, “Uragan”, “Smerch”, “Tornado-S” and the available ammunition for them.


An abnormally triggered cassette from the warhead of an MLRS rocket with PFM-1 anti-personnel mines

There are not so many problems that need to be solved in order to turn mines into effective offensive weapons.

The first is to convey this information to military commanders in the correct form, with ready-made standard scenarios (mining to isolate the battlefield, mining to prevent maneuver, etc.), instructions, etc. There is nothing special to teach here, and by and large speech rather, it is about stimulating commanders to use mining more widely, while at the same time slightly systematizing the knowledge that they already have.

It may be necessary to develop a number of new recommendations for the use of remote mining for commanders at different levels.

The second is to increase the supply of troops with mine-loaded rockets to a quantity that will allow the use of these methods on a wide scale. This will be somewhat more difficult in light of the difficulties that Russia is experiencing in the production of ammunition, but it is still quite feasible.

The third is to make sure that the troops are ready to use remote mining in conjunction with constant observation of the established minefield or fields, since without this the enemy will clear everything very quickly - a minefield means little without fire cover, and the latter is impossible at a great distance without observation. Readiness lies in the availability of crews for unmanned aerial vehicles and the devices themselves, and in the ability to organize their constant use.

And finally, last on the list, but not least, it is necessary to achieve the unconditional compilation of forms for such quickly laid minefields - in light of the fact that this will be done by artillery, and not by engineering troops, this may be the most difficult thing (sounds strange , but it’s time for us not to be surprised by anything).

The fact that modern mines are equipped with self-destructors should in no way cancel out the work with forms.

It is necessary to ensure that your troops are fully informed about where remote mining has been carried out. Achieving this will be much more difficult than it seems in the light of our realities, but if you prepare for such actions in advance, then it is possible to resolve this issue.

From a technical point of view, it is necessary to follow the path of the Americans and develop artillery shells with mine equipment. Taking into account the presence of 203-mm artillery in the troops, this can be done in this caliber - such guns lack accuracy, and there is little point in using them specifically as artillery, but with mines this will not be a big problem, as will the wear of the barrels. And the size of the projectile allows you to “pack” more payload into it.

However, the 152-mm caliber should also contain mine-loaded shells. As well as 122 mm rockets with an increased number of mines.

But this, apparently, will happen after the end of the Northern Military District and after the change of leadership of the Ministry of Defense.

Closing the issue of offensive mining, it is worth noting the successful experiments of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and our troops (the latter on a significantly smaller scale compared to the Ukrainian ones) in installing mines from unmanned aerial vehicles. You can’t lay out many mines this way, but you can literally “plant” them under enemy equipment, dropping them on the road a kilometer or two away from a column or armored vehicle already moving along the route.

Optionally, this method of minelaying should also be used, however, in the case of the RF Armed Forces, it will be hampered by the lack of heavy copters, with which the Armed Forces of Ukraine have no problems. However, in comparison with the effect of massive mining, such piece mining from the air is insignificant.

Conclusion


The use of remote mining in an offensive can significantly facilitate the conduct of offensive combat operations by ground forces.

First of all, this will help facilitate the implementation of tasks to isolate the combat area, make it difficult or impossible for the enemy to bring reserves into battle, maneuver for the purpose of counterattacking our troops, and the withdrawal of enemy troops from their positions in the event of a threat of encirclement.

Also, the use of remote mining to stop enemy units in the process of advancement will make it possible to more effectively, with large losses for the enemy, destroy it with artillery fire and the use of FPV drones.

In order for remote mining to realize its potential in the RF Armed Forces, organizational measures that are minimal in complexity, a fairly moderate-scale supply of troops with appropriate ammunition, as well as additional training for brigade-division level commanders and artillery officers at the same level are required.

The basis for the success of offensive mining is the organization of observation of minefields and fire defeat of enemy sappers trying to clear them.

Organizing such measures is a key part of preparing for offensive remote mining.

But the first step should be a change in consciousness - mines should begin to be seen as an offensive weapon of artillery (for now only rocket), and not just as a defensive weapon of engineering troops.
63 comments
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  1. +7
    27 February 2024 05: 36
    I wonder if remote mining was used on the escape routes of the Bandera group from Avdeevka?
    Most of the Avdeevka garrison, as I understand it, safely escaped the encirclement through fields and country roads... this is where heavy losses could be inflicted on the retreating enemy.
    1. +8
      27 February 2024 06: 00
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      I wonder if remote mining was used on the escape routes of the Bandera group from Avdeevka?

      Yes, it was applied
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Most of the Avdeevka garrison, as I understand it, safely escaped the encirclement through fields and country roads...

      It is impossible to mine everything, even with a great desire, especially since we must understand that such mining is a “double-edged weapon”, since our unit can run into a minefield installed in this way at the time of its advance
      While criticizing the Russian command for insufficient attention to isolating the combat area, one cannot help but admit that active efforts are being made in this direction; another thing is that this is often the initiative of commanders and commanders at various levels on the ground, and not the central apparatus of the Ministry of Defense or GSH.
      The fact that the author has not seen our corresponding “Manual on Engineering Support” does not mean that it does not exist
      1. +5
        27 February 2024 12: 15
        The author did not see the systematic use of mine laying in the offensive primarily. But there is instruction, yes.
        1. +2
          27 February 2024 12: 39
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          The author did not see the systematic use of mine laying in the offensive primarily.

          Then let's figure out when and where such minefields are installed. And they are mainly installed on the route of advance of reserves and along the lines of transition to a counterattack of enemy troops, as well as on the flanks of our attacking units and units. But they make sense when breaking through the line of defense of first-echelon battalions, which we haven’t had for a long time.
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          But there is instruction, yes.

          That is, the General Staff and the Defense Ministry completed their part of the task. Then what are the complaints against them?
          1. -1
            27 February 2024 13: 14
            That is, the General Staff and the Defense Ministry completed their part of the task.

            In our theory, the emphasis was on manual mine laying. The Americans have given up on manual mining; their concept is only remote mining.
            By adopting “Agriculture” we showed that we are also following the American path, without abandoning the manual one. But they did not have time to saturate the troops, the artillery did not have time to fulfill its tasks, and it had no time for remote mining.
            That's why this effect was created. When necessary, there is not enough strength and means.
            1. +4
              27 February 2024 14: 37
              Quote: glory1974
              In our theory, the emphasis was on manual mine laying.

              Who told you this????? Go where you got it from. Yes, the mines were installed manually, including by the combat crews of linear units, and they were trained in this. But this was done for a faster and more widespread installation of mine-explosive barriers. And so, the regiment’s engineering company was already equipped with minelayers, both trailed and self-propelled (tracked). And more senior commanders also had helicopter mine-laying systems
              Quote: glory1974
              The adoption of "Agriculture" showed

              That we continue to develop previously existing remote mining systems. The author mentioned missiles with mines for MLRS, but said nothing about UMP, but they were in every ISR regiment. The same REMOTE MINING system
              1. +5
                27 February 2024 15: 10
                but he kept silent about UMP,


                What is this habit of commenting on the voices in your head?
                Quote from the article:

                an analogue of our UZMs, used to create defense lines, we are not interested in this topic, since the RF Armed Forces are doing more or less well with such mining, and this article is not about these systems.


                It is time.
                And two.

                We are talking about the use of mines in the OFFENSIVE.
                What don't you understand here? How are you going to use the UZM during an offensive battle? What problems do you have with thinking and attention?
                Are you from the General Staff or something?
                1. +2
                  27 February 2024 16: 16
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  How are you going to use the UZM during an offensive battle?

                  Previously, they were part of the barrage detachments. Thanks to the presence of all-terrain vehicles, they advanced to the flanks of attacking units and remotely laid minefields at possible lines of transition to an enemy counterattack.
                  In the current conditions, it will of course be very difficult for them to do this; they need to be tightly covered with air defense, electronic warfare and aerosols. Otherwise, they will be destroyed right on the way.
                2. +1
                  28 February 2024 09: 10
                  Thanks to the author for a good article and to the editors for publishing such articles. You were right in many ways!
              2. 0
                1 March 2024 09: 14
                Yes, the mines were installed manually, including by the combat crews of linear units, and they were trained in this. But this was done for a faster and more widespread installation of mine-explosive barriers.

                In fact, it takes much longer to lay a minefield with a team of sappers than with a salvo of remote mining. Having considered this, the Americans abandoned manual laying, believing that in a maneuver war this method is very long.
                The regiment's engineering company was already equipped with minelayers, both trailed and self-propelled (tracked)

                Manual labor was mechanized. This did not change the concept itself.
                And more senior commanders also had helicopter mine-laying systems

                This was abandoned during the Serdyukov reform.
                We continue to develop previously existing remote mining systems.

                We have seen through experience that the American concept has proven to be viable. The engineers realized this before the infantry commanders, so "Agriculture" went only to the engineering units.
            2. +1
              29 February 2024 13: 15
              It all came down to the fact that it was expensive. Much more expensive than manual/ground mining, which was successfully dealt with when preparing the defense line. The fact that it has been developed does not mean that it has been made in sufficient quantities and is in the army. More or less, there is enough of what has been done since Soviet times, and everything else is as it turns out...
          2. +3
            27 February 2024 15: 41
            And they are mainly installed on the route of advance of reserves and along the lines of transition to a counterattack of enemy troops, as well as on the flanks of our attacking units and units. But they make sense when breaking through the line of defense of first-echelon battalions, which we haven’t had for a long time.


            ABOUT! Yes that's right. You are definitely a senior officer with shoulder straps, judging by the depth of your understanding of the subject.

            And now, attention - WE DO NOT HAVE BREAKTHROUGHES, BECAUSE WE DO NOT PLACE MINES ON THE ROUTES OF ADVANCEMENT OF RESERVES AND IN GENERAL ARE NOT ABLE TO KEEP THEM UNDER CONTINUOUS SURVEILLANCE AND AIMED FIRE.
            You have confused cause and effect. Like GS.

            That is, the General Staff and the Defense Ministry completed their part of the task.


            And who will provide the troops with the necessary supply of ammunition for the appropriate purpose?
            How about monitoring their compliance with the requirements of instructions and statutes?
            1. +2
              27 February 2024 16: 33
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              WE HAVE NO BREAKTHROUGHES BECAUSE WE DON'T PLACE MINES ON THE WAYS TO EXPAND RESERVES

              You have your own point of view, but I believe that the reason for this is much more complex than just the lack of mining of enemy rear areas. And it all starts with the weak capabilities of our intelligence agencies to penetrate the enemy’s defenses, poor organization of communications and interaction...
              With artillery and drone strikes, the enemy immediately strives to block the area where we have seen success and deprive the units of normal supplies, and without it, success cannot be consolidated. Mining is also often used.
              The Wagnerites managed to create their own analogue of an operational secure communication system, but the army cannot yet do this (((
              1. +1
                28 February 2024 09: 16
                And it all starts with the weak capabilities of our intelligence agencies to penetrate the enemy’s defenses, poor organization of communications and interaction...

                What did you have to think about so that when compressing the flanks in an attempt to encircle the Avdeev group, you would not make ANY attempts to remotely mine the enemy’s escape routes within a zone of a couple of kilometers? What kind of intelligence is needed for this? Or maybe this is just sabotage and treason, called by some a gesture of goodwill?
              2. 0
                29 February 2024 13: 19
                And who is to blame for the fact that the troops are not provided with the required amount (taking into account losses and wear and tear of equipment, among other things) with reconnaissance means? Heavy drones, reconnaissance satellites and so on? It’s exactly the same with communications. “weak capabilities of intelligence agencies” - what a surprise. So much is shown on the "Army 20**" forums, but it turns out that for the most part it remains at the level of promising developments that have not gone into not only mass production, but at least limited edition... In fact, many samples of equipment within The SVO is still undergoing testing. There is simply nothing to talk about any conscious use.
              3. 0
                2 March 2024 00: 16
                You have your own point of view, but I believe that the reason for this is much more complex...

                Along the way, you are actually like-minded.
          3. +4
            28 February 2024 09: 08
            That is, the General Staff and the Defense Ministry completed their part of the task. Then what are the complaints against them?

            Claims against the current composition of the General Staff and the Defense Ministry after their planning and implementation of the SVO in any normal country would appear in the form of criminal cases brought against them.
            And as for the complete failure in the management of remote mining and, in reality, the sabotage of the leadership of the Defense Ministry and the General Staff, the ENTIRE Avdeevka enemy group came out along several field roads that NO ONE had mined. And this fact is confirmed by numerous videos from that side.
            And now you are trying to cover up saboteurs and traitors from the General Staff and the Defense Ministry.
            1. +4
              28 February 2024 13: 50
              And as for the complete failure in the management of remote mining and, in reality, the sabotage of the leadership of the Defense Ministry and the General Staff, the ENTIRE Avdeevka enemy group came out along several field roads that NO ONE had mined.


              And before that, the Ukrainians calmly brought reinforcements there, which no one tried to stop either.
              1. +3
                28 February 2024 22: 30
                And before that, the Ukrainians calmly brought reinforcements there, which no one tried to stop either

                This is true, but there the band was wider and it can be assumed that there were not enough remote mining systems. But not to mine several field roads along which the Armed Forces of Ukraine calmly went is beyond the bounds and this is a real crime that was called by the normal word sabotage or treason. And shielding saboteurs and traitors is also a crime for which our guys pay with blood.
      2. -1
        28 February 2024 00: 47
        What the author never saw

        In general, I would like to describe this opus with an example.
        If the author wrote about construction. At first he found some kind of SNIP, did not understand why absolutely everything about construction was not written there and did not find there an explanation of the concepts disclosed in school and university textbooks. Naturally, I didn’t understand anything about construction. But he ran to tell us that they don’t know how to build in Russia.
        The arrogance of the author's incompetence is simply outrageous.
    2. +1
      27 February 2024 08: 17
      Quote: timokhin-aa
      In Russia, traditionally prone to creating various types of “miracle weapons”

      You should also use the German term...
      1. +6
        27 February 2024 12: 24
        Yes, whatever the term, the diagnosis is obvious. We have "Agriculture", but there is no way to massively throw mines with conventional artillery, we have TOS-1, but there are no massive thermobaric ammunition for MLRS and artillery, we cut Su-34, but do not have a container jamming station for attack aircraft, we have nuclear the torpedo consumed more budget than the tank troops, but the fleet has nothing with which to fire back at radio-controlled boats with explosives.

        Money flowed and flows like a river, there is no point.
        1. +2
          27 February 2024 14: 43
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          Money flowed and flows like a river, there is no point.

          So is the problem with weapons, or lack of budget control?
          1. +4
            27 February 2024 15: 07
            The problem is goal setting first of all.
            1. +2
              27 February 2024 16: 42
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              The problem is goal setting first of all.

              The media posts misinformation to mislead a potential enemy)
              Now Russia is being blamed for the information war by everyone who has not yet had their Internet turned off
              1. +2
                27 February 2024 23: 29
                This is not the case, I know what I’m looking for not only from the Internet
    3. +6
      27 February 2024 09: 29
      Most mines installed remotely can be easily removed using the simplest “cat”, explosive method. There is no problem in extending the passage even with the help of the department. Such fields must be placed at a strictly defined moment, precisely when the enemy retreats. So that they don't have time. And with slow extrusion, such fields lose their meaning.
      1. -1
        27 February 2024 12: 16
        This does not contradict what is written in any way. It makes no sense to lay mines remotely; the same PFM-1 now has a self-destructive device.
      2. 0
        27 February 2024 13: 19
        Most mines installed remotely can be easily removed using the simplest “cat”, explosive method.

        Not certainly in that way. For example, there are mines that react to metal. The sapper undresses completely so that even the buttons on his trousers do not affect him. And the cat must be plastic.
        And while he is doing this, the troops are crowded in front of the mine and barrage. And if they don’t crowd together, the cavalry overtakes from behind and the dispersed enemy cannot offer resistance. The time factor is very important here.
        1. +1
          27 February 2024 18: 52
          You wrote nonsense. Although you can see it better from the sofa. At least take an interest in how they work with a cat.
          1. -1
            1 March 2024 09: 04
            What's wrong? How do mines react to metal?
            1. +1
              1 March 2024 14: 22
              They also react to wood. Very rotten too. Find out how mines are removed with a cat.
              1. -1
                4 March 2024 13: 45
                You answer specific questions vaguely. And as the classic said: “The vagueness of a word is the vagueness of a thought.”
                1. +1
                  4 March 2024 16: 05
                  Oh well, who would say.
                  Plastic cat. You were joking when you said this nonsense. Do you really think sofa jokes are relevant today?
                  1. 0
                    6 March 2024 10: 03
                    because n5 they were joking

                    How is this translated into Russian?
                    Pull off a magnetic mine with a plastic cat Hochma?
                    Can you suggest another option?
                    1. 0
                      6 March 2024 19: 04
                      Who cares what kind of cat??? Mines are removed using a cat using an explosive method.
                      They're trolling. Threw it, pulled it, hooked the cables/strings/springs/line/etc. and so on.
                      Why use a plastic cat against a magnetic mine if the mine needs to be initiated? ????? Can you tell me?
                      Extended charge, Mountain Serpent, herd of sheep, cat.
                      This will all be cleared by detonation.
      3. -1
        3 March 2024 23: 32
        When you urgently leave your positions and even under enemy fire, then there is no time to use “cats” ....
        Any minefields on the path of troop movement are an opportunity to inflict significant additional damage on them....
        1. -1
          4 March 2024 16: 03
          If these barriers appeared just before the retreat. If you do this in advance, the enemy will definitely take care to create a corridor for himself “just in case.”
    4. +3
      27 February 2024 12: 20
      I wonder if remote mining was used on the escape routes of the Bandera group from Avdeevka?


      Yes, on a small scale. Ukrainians complained.
      But not enough.
  2. +3
    27 February 2024 05: 55
    Mining systems for the engineering troops, heavy flamethrowers for the RKhBZ. But the enemy will get confused. recourse
    1. +5
      27 February 2024 12: 17
      To the point, yes.
      Some branches of the military have one system, others have another, and the combined arms formations have nothing in the end.
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. +3
    27 February 2024 08: 01
    The fighting is proceeding according to a single plan. Lowering the level of decision-making involved in laying minefields will only lead to confusion and friendly casualties.
    1. +3
      27 February 2024 12: 18
      The mines have self-destructors, they won’t last long anyway, but at a critical moment you can stop the enemy’s maneuver or retreat.
  5. 0
    27 February 2024 08: 56
    There is one small problem - the Germans have civilians in the rear, and quite a few. And the main victims of such mining will be among them
    1. +2
      27 February 2024 12: 18
      It’s better to demolish them all later, together with the Armed Forces of Ukraine, with artillery.
  6. +1
    27 February 2024 09: 58
    We, like the Americans, have no practice in using remote mining systems. I will assume that all application options are the result of theoretical and field tests. After or during the SVO, the situation will change. Remote use of mines also has its disadvantages. The moment of mining is visible, since the explosion of a high-explosive projectile differs from the explosion when it is placed.. The mines are not camouflaged, there is no data on the self-digging of the latter and on self-camouflage. It is impossible to predict in advance how the map, or rather the mines, will lay out; somewhere it will be empty and somewhere dense. And most importantly, at the moment, mines are defensive weapons, using them on the offensive means creating problems for yourself and not the enemy in the near future.
    1. 0
      27 February 2024 12: 19
      And most importantly, at the moment, mines are defensive weapons; using them on the offensive means creating problems for yourself and not the enemy in the near future.


      This is the problem - we don’t know how to do it without creating problems for ourselves.
      1. -1
        27 February 2024 13: 22
        We create problems ourselves and solve them ourselves, everything is in order laughing Remote mining is easier. Let's call on experience, which is known to be the son of mistakes, to help us, remember that theory without practice is dead, think a little and correct the defect.
    2. 0
      27 February 2024 13: 22
      There are mines that can be turned off remotely if friendly troops approach. Very convenient. We didn’t think before that there would be a large-scale conflict; we only made experimental samples.
      1. 0
        27 February 2024 17: 29
        I didn’t know that such mines existed or were being developed. Thank you, now I know. True, all this is difficult, and probably expensive. Remote mining is not permanent. Stop the attackers for a short time, create problems for the retreaters, that’s basically all the tasks.
  7. +1
    27 February 2024 12: 08
    Division of labor. Mining is carried out by engineering units, for which “Agriculture” was actually created, and it is on their staff.
    Laying minefields using "left" means? So you need not only ammunition, you also need to “beg” for this “leftist” means of mining. The same Veremev has a description of the mining system from a helicopter, and as he writes in a practical commentary, that the system is working, but the helicopter still needs to be knocked out. It's the same with art.
    And again, if you give an infantry commander the ability to mine, then he must also be trained to use this tool in order to correctly lay a minefield. Theoretically train (that is, add the Combat Regulations), then practice it at the training ground during exercises.
    1. +2
      27 February 2024 13: 09
      there is a description of a mining system from a helicopter, and as he writes in a practical commentary, the system is working, but the helicopter still needs to be knocked out. It's the same with art.

      In divisions, helicopters were planned to be used for mining, as a mobile obstacle detachment, and for laying communication cables. But with the transition to brigades, all these tasks were abandoned, and the helicopters were removed. This is how we live now.
      1. +1
        27 February 2024 15: 13
        But with the transition to brigades, all these tasks were abandoned, and the helicopters were removed


        Helicopters were generally taken away from us from the SV, if anything, a long time ago.
        1. 0
          1 March 2024 09: 06
          Helicopters were generally taken away from us from the SV, if anything, a long time ago.

          If earlier, in divisions, helicopters were used, no matter where they were taken from, but in brigades even this option was removed. That's what we're talking about.
    2. 0
      27 February 2024 15: 12
      So you need not only ammunition, you also need to “beg” for this “leftist” means of mining.


      The means of mining now are the MLRS "Grad", "Uragan", "Smerch" and their derivatives. They are just in stock.
    3. 0
      5 March 2024 23: 27
      .And again, if you give the infantry commander the ability to mine
      The infantry commander has had this opportunity for 100 years. In the form of a lieutenant. The battalion commander arrived at the OP, introduced himself - the commander of the sapper platoon, please indicate on the map which direction to mine, cover, when. Whether remotely or locally. The sappers know their stuff, just order it. The regiment commander has his own sapper company. What more do you need?
  8. 0
    27 February 2024 15: 25
    Quote: timokhin-aa
    Yes, whatever the term, the diagnosis is obvious. We have "Agriculture", but there is no way to massively throw mines with conventional artillery, we have TOS-1, but there are no massive thermobaric ammunition for MLRS and artillery, we cut Su-34, but do not have a container jamming station for attack aircraft, we have nuclear the torpedo consumed more budget than the tank troops, but the fleet has nothing with which to fire back at radio-controlled boats with explosives.

    Money flowed and flows like a river, there is no point.


    + 100500!
  9. -2
    27 February 2024 15: 28
    article +

    Your comment text is too short
  10. 0
    27 February 2024 17: 25
    I think a “kick” from... unification could improve the situation a little (albeit just a little)!
    We now have different MLRS systems, many of which are not unified among themselves. But for each system there are shells filled with mines. At the same time, there are SEPARATE systems specifically for mining. Which also have little unification both with other such systems and with MLRS. And all this in combination with the fact that for many the shells (missiles) themselves are different. As a result, we have a whole zoo of equipment ONLY for mining (not to mention the fact that regarding ALL military equipment, we no longer have a zoo, but a whole nature reserve).
    But if the armed forces for mining have a unified platform with unified shells, then already at the stage of officer training everyone will get used to more actively using all the capabilities of the available equipment.

    For example, what if we unify the MLRS. Let us use the good experience of the Americans themselves (or is it not patriotic to adopt someone else’s good experience?). Let them take 2 MLRS systems, which will actually differ from each other only in the chassis. Let’s say the first, heavy one, for strike units where there are tracked vehicles (tanks and self-propelled guns), and therefore the platform itself is tracked based on the MBT chassis. The second, for “light” parts, on a wheeled chassis. Moreover, you can go further in unification than the Americans themselves. We have MLRS in caliber 122 mm, 220 mm and 300 mm. (in the future there may be more calibers as well as light cruise and ballistic missiles for tactical purposes). And they can all be replaced with one family by creating interchangeable packages for different shells. While in the United States, all of their MLRS are limited to one 227 mm caliber. We have the opportunity to use missiles from different missiles for different tasks. If you need to cover a large area with anti-personnel mines, then we use 122 mm. If you urgently need to mine possible routes for enemy reinforcements during an offensive using PTMs, then take 220 mm. And if you need to carry out long-range mining, then we take 300 mm shells stuffed with a large set of mines.

    How about the idea of ​​fully developing the idea of ​​“anti-aircraft mines”. These are literally compact air defense systems that can be dropped into regions where enemy aircraft will potentially be able to come to the aid of their own at low level. As a result, such “anti-aircraft mines” will certainly not be able to shoot down the plane with 100% probability, but they will force you to perform an evasive maneuver, including raising the altitude (which means the plane will expose itself to the radars of large air defense systems). This air defense can be built on the principle of a fireworks mortar. When an airplane or helicopter appears within the operating radius of this mine, it fires a mortar shell upward. The projectile itself is a cylinder rapidly rotating around its axis. When the projectile sees that there is a target in the path of its “vision”, it simply shoots a cloud of shrapnel at the target with its “side”. Or it tries to hit the “shock core” formed by the design of the charge.
    1. 0
      5 March 2024 23: 30
      You don’t have any “unification”, on a different chassis laughing And the mines you described have been in service for a long, long time. Anti-helicopter, however, they cannot reach the plane
  11. 0
    3 March 2024 23: 20
    Since the commander of a motorized rifle brigade has a GRAD MLRS division on his staff, no one is stopping him from carrying out remote mining of reserves’ approach routes, supplying ammunition or regrouping troops, except for ignorance (for what?) and lack of ability (how to do it correctly?) to do it....
  12. 0
    5 March 2024 23: 10
    .This is where the “American” method comes in handy - creating “situational” obstacles for troop maneuver by quickly “sowing” mines in the directions in which the enemy needs to be prevented from moving

    And when did such heroic deeds of unsurpassed amers take place? In what year and on what theater of operations? laughing
  13. 0
    April 3 2024 09: 25
    Long and internally contradictory article.
    Do you need expensive artillery shells for mining? Unclear.
    Criticism of "Agriculture" is based only on the fact that the complex is in engineering units and units. There is no comparison of the price of use and ammunition of "Agriculture" and RZSO calibers of 122, 220, 300 mm.
    Yes, the regiment commander does not have the ability (not always, but in most cases) to remotely mine. Does he need it?
    Basically, how effective is remote mining? As a special case and an infrequent opportunity - yes, but the mass application that the author insists on?

    Weak article, in my opinion.