F-35 Lightning II Aircraft Problems

96
Just a couple of days ago, Lockheed Martin published new photos from the factory’s workshop, where the latest F-35 Lightning II fighter jets gather. The wing assemblies of the next aircraft captured on them are remarkable in that it will be the hundredth fighter in the series. All in all, almost 90 boards are located in the factories of the company in varying degrees of readiness. Thus, taking into account the 50 with more than the already built aircraft, in the coming months the total number of new fighters will exceed the mark of a hundred and fifty. As we see, despite all the problems and criticism, Lockheed-Martin not only completed the development of a promising aircraft, but also established a full-fledged batch production. However, even after the development of mass production, some problems have remained, no longer so large as before, which are still the object of criticism.



Economy

The main shaft of criticism of the F-35 project concerns the economic side of the matter. Despite the promised advantages over the existing and promising technology, the aircraft was very expensive. Currently, the production of one fighter F-35A costs more than one hundred million dollars. In the mid-nineties, when work on this project entered the active stage, it was planned to keep the cost of one aircraft, taking into account all preliminary costs at the level of 30-35 million. As you can see, at the moment there is a threefold excess of the price of the aircraft relative to the planned. Of course, such "factors" could not fail to attract the attention of opponents of the project. At the same time, the authors of the project from the company “Lockheed-Martin” are justified by objective reasons for a significant increase in prices, such as the difficulty of mastering new technologies or creating a unified structure.

It is noteworthy that all the costs of the project are directly or indirectly related to the policy adopted at the very beginning. Since the Pentagon wanted to get three aircraft with different purposes, different characteristics and for three different types of troops, Lockheed-Martin engineers headed for maximum simplification of the design. In addition, the issues of simplifying aircraft maintenance were actively considered. As in the case of the previous superproject - F-22 Raptor - all measures to reduce the price not only did not lead to this, but even increased the cost of the program in general and of each individual aircraft in particular. Particularly interesting project F-35 looks in the light of the concepts of creation and application. Initially, this fighter was made as a light and cheap aircraft, complementing the heavy and expensive F-22. The result was to comply with the required price ratio, but one hundred million overboard can be called a small cost only in comparison with 140-145 millions of F-22.

Probably, it was possible to maintain the ratio of the cost of airplanes and programs, thanks also to the correct approach to business. The F-35 project goes back to the ASTOLV program, which began in the first half of the eighties, but did not have much success. On the basis of the developments on this project, work was later developed under the code name CALF, which eventually merged with the JAST program. The tasks of all these programs were noticeably different, but at the stage of combining CALF and JAST the general requirements for a promising fighter were already formed. Perhaps it was the nomenclature moments, because of which the costs of one program did not add to the costs of another, as a result, significantly reduced the cost of the final F-35 project. At the same time, the last transformation of the JAST program (Joint Advanced Strike Technology - “Single Promising Shock Technology”), which only led to a change in its name to JSF (Joint Strike Fighter - “Single Shot Fighter”), can hardly be considered the cause of any savings.

It is worth noting that much greater savings were achieved through the use of existing developments. For example, in designing the new F-35 fighter, the CATIA automated system and the COMOC test system were actively used. These systems were created specifically for the F-22 project, which actually "took over" their cost. The situation is similar with some new technologies, for example, with several new varieties of composite materials.

Nevertheless, even with a similar cost sharing, the F-35 aircraft came out quite expensive. There is every reason to believe that the main reason for the high cost of these aircraft is the specific idea to create several independent machines based on the same design. Such a task is not easy in itself, let alone talk about modern aircraft, which should combine the newest technologies. In addition, a change in customer requirements. In the late nineties, the US Navy revised and corrected several times its desires regarding the characteristics of the future deck F-35C. Because of this, the designers of Lockheed Martin had to constantly update the project. In the case of a separate development of an independent project, such adjustments would not entail any particularly complex work. But in the case of the JSF program, in view of its requirements for unification, every noticeable change in the deck fighter or any other modification directly affected the other two fighter versions. According to various estimates, about 10-15% of the total design time was spent on additional revision of the projects. Obviously, the situation was similar in that with extra cash costs.



Technique

In addition to problems with the implementation of certain requirements, leading to unnecessary costs, the cost of the JSF program was also due to a number of new technical solutions, which also cost a lot of money to develop and test.

The first to catch the eye are the F-35B's short takeoff and vertical landing fighter lifting units. To meet the requirements of the Marine Corps regarding the possibility of basing on universal amphibious ships, Lockheed-Martin employees, together with engine builders from Pratt & Whitney, had to spend a lot of time on creating a lift-sustainer engine that could not only provide the necessary thrust, but also fit into the ideology of maximum unification adopted in the project. If to create a power plant for "land" and carrier-based fighters it was enough to do with the modernization of the existing PW F119 engine, then in the case of a short or vertical takeoff aircraft, a number of special measures had to be taken.

According to the results of the old ASTOLV program, several variants of lifting and cruising engines were eliminated. In the course of JSF work at Lockheed-Martin, it was concluded that the most convenient of the remaining options would be to use a turbojet engine with a rotating nozzle and an additional lift fan, driven by the engine. Such an arrangement provides sufficient for vertical take-off traction and ease of control, although it is not without drawbacks. First of all, the fact is noted that most of the time the plane will carry an extra load in the form of a lifting fan, which is only necessary during a vertical / shortened takeoff or landing. All fan units, from the split coupling to the upper and lower flaps, weigh about 1800 kilograms, which is slightly more than the dry weight of the F135-600 engine itself. However, when using a high-temperature turbojet engine, other options did not look too comfortable. The fact is that the flow of cold air from the fan, colliding with the jet stream of the engine, partially cools it, and also does not allow overheated gases to get into the air intakes. No other layout of the lifting power plant has such an opportunity and, therefore, extra weight is recognized as an acceptable price for advantages.

With another equally complex unit of the F-35B fighter powerplant - a rotating nozzle - an interesting one story. Research on this topic began in the days of the CALF program, but did not have much success. Having spent a lot of time, effort and money, American scientists and engineers turned for advice to the Russian design bureau. A.S. Yakovlev. As a result of lengthy negotiations, the Americans were able to buy part of the documentation for the Yak-141 project and study it carefully. Already using the knowledge gained, a new nozzle for the F135-600 engine was designed, having a number of features in common with the corresponding unit of the Soviet Yak-141 aircraft.

And yet, despite the use of foreign experience, the creation of a power plant for a vertical take-off aircraft turned out to be very difficult. In particular, shortly before the start of testing the first prototype of the F-35B with the BF-1 index, there was a risk of cracks in the blades of the engine turbine. Because of this, for several months, all tests of lifting units were carried out with severe power limitations, and after each gazovka an engine inspection for damage was required. As a result of fairly lengthy work on the final design of the power plant, we managed to eliminate all its main problems and ensure the required reliability. It is worth noting that these problems are still occasionally blamed on the new aircraft, and a number of sources mention the appearance of new cracks, including on production aircraft.

Not without problems and when creating a deck version of the F-35C. Initially it was supposed to increase its take-off and landing characteristics with the help of an engine with thrust vector control and a boundary layer control system. However, back in the late nineties, the overall complexity and cost of the JSF / F-35 program grew so much that it was decided to leave only the controlled thrust vector. According to some sources, employees of Lockheed Martin and related enterprises have already begun research and design work on the subject of the border layer management system, but soon ceased them. Thus, one more expense was added to the total cost of the program, which, however, had no practical benefit.

Like the previous F-22 fighter, the F-35 initially had to be equipped with a powerful computing system that would provide the ability to work on air and ground targets, navigation, control of all aircraft systems, etc. When creating a complex of avionics for the F-35, the developments of the F-22 project were widely used. At the same time, some features of the production of components for electronics were taken into account. It was assumed that the use of the newest components will not only improve the performance of the equipment, but also protect the aircraft from trouble like those that happened with the F-22 in the mid-nineties. Recall, then, soon after the start of testing of the first version of the computing complex, the manufacturer of the microprocessors used announced the end of their release. Employees of several companies involved in the F-22 project had to urgently redo a large part of the electronics.

The main means of obtaining information about the situation in an F-35 aircraft is an airborne radar AN / APG-81, equipped with an active phased antenna array. Also, six AN / AAQ-37 system sensors, which monitor the situation from all angles, are distributed according to the aircraft design. To observe and use weapons The aircraft is equipped with an AAQ-40 thermal imaging system. Also worth attention is the station of active radio interference AN / ASQ-239. During several years of development, testing and development, American engineers managed to solve almost all the problems of electronic equipment for the F-35.

However, the prolonged epic with a special pilot's helmet has not yet ended. The fact is that, in accordance with the requirements of the military and the fabrications of the authors of the overall look of the F-35, pilots of advanced fighters must work with a special helmet, the glass of which is equipped with an information output system. On the helmet screen it is planned to display all the data necessary for navigation, search for targets and attack. Initially, the development of the helmet was engaged in the company Vision Systems International, but for several years she did not manage to bring it to mind. So, even at the end of 2011, there were delays in displaying information on the helmet screen. In addition, the electronics of the protective headgear did not always correctly determine the position of the pilot's head relative to the aircraft, which led to the issuance of incorrect information. Because of these problems with the VSI helmet and obscure fixes, Lockheed Martin was forced to order the development of an alternative pilot helmet for BAE Systems. Its prototypes already exist, but the adoption of one of the helmets is still a matter of the future.



Prospects

If we compare the state of the F-35 and F-22 projects at the time of the start of mass production, then first of all, the degree of the overall performance of the fighters is striking. It seems that the engineers and managers of Lockheed Martin took into account all the troubles that had happened to the previous promising aircraft and tried to avoid most of the problems that had interfered with earlier. Of course, the fine-tuning and additional testing of all three F-35 modifications took extra time and money, but such a fee seemed to be acceptable in the light of possible further problems. Therefore, at present, Lightning-2 has mainly financial problems and, as a result, not quite clear prospects regarding, first of all, deliveries for export.

Year after year, the F-35 fighter has been subjected to various criticisms by experts from different countries, including those participating in the project. Perhaps the most interesting is the position of the Australian military and experts. This country has long intended to purchase a number of new fighters with great prospects, and it wants to buy F-22 aircraft. The United States, in turn, just as long ago clearly and clearly denied to all foreign countries the possibility of such deliveries and offered “in return” newer F-35. Australians, not wanting to lose the opportunity to buy F-22, in recent years have regularly raised the issue of the feasibility of buying F-35 in particular and the prospects of this aircraft in general. Often there is an opinion that in pursuit of a more interesting “Raptor”, Australians are ready to blame Lightning-2 for non-existent flaws. However, in the current conditions, statements from Australia can be used as one of the sources of information that does not cause serious distrust.

One of the most famous and scandalous are the statements of analysts of the center Air Power Australia. After analyzing the available information, experts a few years ago recognized the F-35 aircraft as the 4 + generation fighter, although Lockheed Martin positions it as belonging to the fifth. To prove their words, Australian analysts have resulted in low thrust-to-weight ratio of the aircraft and, as a result, the impossibility of supersonic flight without switching on a boost, relatively high visibility for radar and a number of other factors. A little later, the Australian think tank compared the ratio of the capabilities of the F-22 and F-35 fighters with a motorcycle and a scooter. In addition, the Australian experts have been conducting comparative analyzes of F-35 and air defense systems of various countries for already some years. The result of such calculations is constantly becoming the conclusion about the almost guaranteed victory of the anti-aircraft gunners. Finally, several years ago, the Australian military was present during a virtual test of air combat between the American F-35 aircraft and the Russian Su-35 (4 ++ generation). According to information received from the Australian side, American aircraft, at least, did not show all that they should have been. The official Pentagon explained these failures of the American technology in “digital form” by some other goals. Anyway, Australia continues to be the most ardent critic of the draft F-35.

A few days ago, the Australian edition of the Sidney Morning Herald published excerpts from the plans of the Ministry of Defense of the country. From these quotes it follows directly that the Australian military intends to terminate the contract with the United States for the supply of new F-35. Instead of a dozen Lightnings, Canberra is going to purchase a number of the latest F / A-18 fighter-bombers. The actions of the Australian military create a steady impression that the Air Force commanders consider the F-35 to be significantly inferior in cost-effectiveness to the older F-22 and therefore not worth the attention and expense. It is for this reason that the Australian Air Force is ready to buy old and proven F / A-18, but not the new and dubious F-35.

In April last year, a real scandal broke out on the sidelines of the Canadian Ministry of Defense. A few years ago, when Canada entered the F-35 program, it was planned to buy X-NUMX F-65A planes worth about 35 billions of dollars. Taking into account the twenty-year service of the aircraft, all expenses should have been packed in 10-14 billions. A little later, Canadians recalculated the costs of the contract and it turned out that the total cost of the planes would be 15 billion. Finally, by the end of 25, as a result of the next recalculation, the total cost of the purchase and operation of aircraft increased to over 2012 billions. Because of this increase in costs, Ottawa is forced to abandon the purchase of a fifth-generation fighter and consider more modest options. It is noteworthy that due to the draft of the F-40, the Canadian Air Force was in a not too pleasant position: the available technology is gradually developing its resource, and the arrival of a new one will not begin today or tomorrow. Therefore, Canada is currently considering the purchase of F / A-35 fighter jets or European Eurofighter Typhoon in order to save money and time.

All current export problems of the F-35 aircraft are based on a number of reasons. The complexity of the project led to a delay in the timing and a slow but sure increase in the cost of both the program as a whole and each aircraft in particular. All this could not but affect the export future of the fighter. The United States Air Force, Navy and ILC, being the main customers, must necessarily continue to purchase new equipment. The maximum risk for the program in this case would be a decrease in the number of purchased equipment. Export deliveries have less clear perspectives, because further displacement of terms and increase in prices will only scare off potential buyers.



Today and tomorrow

Meanwhile, in the 2012, a total of three dozen new F-35 aircraft took off, more than twice the production rate of the 2011 year. Their first fighters received the British Air Force (two) and the Netherlands (one). In addition, the first three F-35B fighters set off to serve in the Marine Corps Squadron. According to the official data of Lockheed Martin, over the past year 1167 test flights were carried out (by 18% more than the plan), during which 9319 points were obtained, characterizing progress (the plan was exceeded by 10%). As we see, the Americans do not even think about stopping the fine-tuning and production of the newest fighters. For the current 2013 year, tests and revision of the onboard avionics equipment of the Block 2B version are planned, as well as the first tests of weapons. The first tests of the modification of the shortened take-off on the universal landing ships of the Wasp project were scheduled for summer.

In general, employees of all companies and enterprises engaged in the F-35 project continue to work on it and are not going to abandon it. Yes, and the project itself has long passed the point of no return, so the military and engineers do not have a way back - you need to continue fine-tuning and building new aircraft. All problems with the complexity of a particular part of the project, as well as the delays in their implementation caused by them, ultimately lead to an increase in the cost of the entire program. But, as already mentioned, there is no turning back, the F-35 will serve at any cost.

That's just not quite clear how the next update of the US Air Force will look like if the price of the next plane will be even higher than now. In the late nineties, one of the senior leaders of Lockheed-Martin N. Augustine noted that every ten years the development program of the new fighter rises four times the previous one. If this trend continues, by the middle of the 21st century, one annual US military budget of the late 1990s sample will be equivalent to the cost of developing and building just one aircraft. According to Augustine’s apt expression, this fighter will serve in the Air Force for three and a half days a week, as many more in the Navy, and in particularly successful years it will occasionally “overtake” the Marine Corps. Will Lightning-2 be able to stop this bad tradition? Judging by the current situation, the likelihood of this is not so great.



Based on:
http://lockheedmartin.com/
http://pw.utc.com/
http://jsf.mil/
http://airwar.ru/
http://ausairpower.net/
http://lenta.ru/
http://rnd.cnews.ru/
http://smh.com.au/
Kudishin I.V. F-22 Raptor and JSF. American fighter of the fifth generation. - M .: Astrel / AST, 2002
96 comments
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  1. +8
    1 February 2013 08: 40
    For the kind of money he costs, his F-16 squadron must cover.
    1. +2
      1 February 2013 09: 02
      Quote: Vladimirets

      For the money he costs

      can build 2 T-50. (probably). smile
      1. +13
        1 February 2013 09: 56
        But in essence this is our development .. YAK 141 merged over the hill with Yeltsin’s scum, humpback and other scum.
        1. +5
          1 February 2013 17: 47
          Very, very partial, and only for one of the aircraft. De facto, this allowed the Americans to cut costs on dead end options and conduct a series of tests.
          1. Kassandra
            0
            23 February 2015 12: 28
            not very partially but entirely.

            the other two are merely simplifications of the third.
        2. +3
          1 February 2013 21: 04
          Well, do not, as always, try to pass off as wishful thinking. A little slammed engine and very little aerodynamics. And what do you call our development?
          1. klop_mutant
            +3
            1 February 2013 23: 04

            Yeah, almost nothing in common.
          2. Darck
            0
            2 February 2013 22: 54
            You can specifically list what they slammed there? Very interesting ...
            1. 0
              5 February 2013 03: 56
              Does anyone know the price of our Su-35? For the sake of a laugh, how much superior this F-35 dryer can be bought at its price laughing

              EDIT: I found it on the wiki myself, the export value is 85 million. That means building somewhere around 50. So for one clumsy F-35 you can 2 pieces of Su-35 which are much better than this F-35. OK yeah?
              1. vovanbesmert
                +1
                17 May 2014 00: 38
                than su 35 exceeds f 35. Maneuverability of f 35 is not needed, this indicator neutralizes the side-driver 9X - this wunderwaffle can be a nightmare for our fighters 1. the matrix head of this rocket with high resolution is not sensitive to infrared traps (the missile hit 21 out of 22 targets during testing ( there were jamming operations against the missiles) 2. The variable thrust vector gives this missile superior maneuverability - higher than that of the p73 (alas, even the su35 may not go away.) 3 AIM9X version 3 is planned with an increased range (50-55 km) and this is already an indicator medium-range missiles and the type P27er, etc., with the maneuverability of short-range missiles.
                1. Kassandra
                  0
                  11 August 2014 10: 04
                  maybe he doesn’t need the ability to fly with such missiles? and what - will hit right from the strip ...
            2. Kassandra
              0
              10 August 2014 15: 34
              absolutely everything slammed ... except for the gas-dynamic orientation system which they had previously, together with the Harrier, slammed with the British (it is also not licensed) bully
              STOVL own American aircraft manufacturing stuck in Bell X-14 (this is not-up Yak-36)
              from supersonic to the purchase of the Yak-141 they had only never flown XFV-12
              You can look at these two aircraft and compare laughing
              The F-35 is simply the Yak-141 covered with anti-radar swamps, in which two outboard hull missiles were replaced with a rotator from XV-5
              moreover, if in the case of the Harrier Her Majesty the Queen of England hats go at least for his patented engine, then in the case of Yak - Russia no hats go at all, and besides, cowboys patented all the technical solutions of Yak as their own bully
            3. Kassandra
              +1
              23 February 2015 12: 24
              Everything is allowed! bully technology transfer was official and took 1,5g

              then Lockheed added elements of invisibility and changed two of Yak's lifting engines to a fan from XV-5
              The adaptation of all these changes was carried out by the same Soviet design bureau hired for subcontracting. the Americans themselves did nothing, only slightly changed avionics and avionics then for 20 years.

              "chisel" (Lada-eight) in the moldings is still a chisel.
        3. 0
          9 June 2017 13: 00
          rather Yak-201, the power plant is completely ripped off. And what was leaked may not be so bad - and the UC was not very good, but this one is generally a laughing stock. Two erroneous concepts - vertical take-off and stealth technology to the detriment of combat effectiveness = F-35
    2. Insurgent
      -4
      1 February 2013 10: 29
      The aircraft will be brought all the more 100 units have been manufactured and the T-50 only 4 prototypes
      1. +7
        1 February 2013 10: 34
        Quote: Insurgent

        The aircraft will be brought all the more 100 units have been manufactured and the T-50 only 4 prototypes


        I agree. Of course they didn’t pour dough. But there are already 100 units. To finalize them, I think, is not very problematic in the future. But ours with PAK FA need to add a little pace. Yes, the plane is cool, but you need to build faster.
        1. +7
          1 February 2013 10: 51
          Quote: Manager
          I agree. Of course they didn’t pour dough. But there are already 100 units. To finalize them, I think, is not very problematic in the future. But ours with PAK FA need to add a little pace. Yes, the plane is cool, but you need to build faster.

          To increase the pace, you need to roll the same amount of dough. A quick fine-tuning of the aircraft is possible with a decent installation lot. But I see no reason to chase. In addition to the radar, our generation 4 ++ does not step up to any raptorpu and F-35. Well, and at maximum speed in the afterburner mode.
          1. +5
            1 February 2013 11: 21
            Quote: Insurgent
            The aircraft will be brought all the more 100 units have been manufactured and the T-50 only 4 prototypes

            Quote: Manager
            I agree. Of course they didn’t pour dough. But there are already 100 units. To finalize them, I think, is not very problematic in the future. But ours with PAK FA need to add a little pace. Yes, the plane is cool, but you need to build faster.

            Quote: PROXOR
            To increase the pace, you need to roll the same amount of dough. A quick fine-tuning of the aircraft is possible with a decent installation lot. But I see no reason to chase. In addition to the radar, our generation 4 ++ does not step up to any raptorpu and F-35. Well, and at maximum speed in the afterburner mode.

            Comrades, you shouldn’t boil so much about the t-50! It is not worth comparing the t-50 and f-35 since the f-35 is much earlier produced in syria and the t-50 is only pratotypes. In this case, we are clearly not defenseless, even though we are armed with generation 4+ and 4 ++ exterminators. Now the su-35s will go into service in the near future, well, and there the t-50 will arrive in time. Things are going according to schedule.
            1. Insurgent
              +2
              1 February 2013 11: 59
              90% are su-27, and mig-29 is still Soviet
              1. 0
                9 June 2017 13: 09
                In the USA, 90% is also F-15, F-16, F-18 and the like. And all this new junk will be made, paid for, will make several demonstration sorties (in order to show supposedly their need) and then it will be written off slowly due to obvious disruption (example - F-117), and F-15, F-16, F-18 etc. will be modernized and will continue to serve
            2. +3
              1 February 2013 17: 25
              Considering that the documentation for the raptor was adjusted already in the distant 20s, then we are quite normal in terms of time. already 5 prototype T-50 on the way. by the end of the year it should be 8, and Sergey (SSI) seemed to write that everything was 10. and it should be taken into account that their plants had not been idle for 15 years. no orders, there are repairs and other services. power preserved.
          2. +3
            1 February 2013 11: 24
            Quote: PROXOR
            generation 4 ++


            Yes, I totally agree with you. Generations 4+ and ++ are more than enough. The only thing I wrote yesterday or the day before yesterday is that we need military districts to equip everything with 4+ 100%. We don’t have it yet. And the enemy is not asleep.
            1. +10
              1 February 2013 13: 28
              I don’t understand the panic that we don’t have a 5 generation aircraft, there are wonderful cars that will give odds to these freaks for many years to come, you need to do t -50 slowly and seriously - not just for one 10-anniversary project.
              Everyone already sees this lie about the invisibility of stealth technologies, and other three-men. Investing money in the creation of weapons that are needed in order to resist weapons that do not exist is a waste of money. This is how the SDI program was used to frighten the USSR, and on this wave we spent more money on defense than was required.
              A balance is needed: the quantity of equipment must correspond to the service infrastructure, the state’s ability to maintain it and trained personnel. Why shout - We’re building a little if there is no one to fly and service the equipment. A balanced approach is needed.
            2. +1
              1 February 2013 17: 49
              Well, if you think so, then it is quite possible to fight with Mosinka and Nagan. But for some reason they don’t howl, right?
              1. alex popov
                0
                2 February 2013 19: 25
                Quote: Pimply
                Well, if you think so, then it is quite possible to fight Mosinka

                People are fighting, not technology. With comparable technologies "... those who want to win more will win ...". In the current situation, rearmament-rearmament, but in the priorities, the training of personnel should come first.
                Z.Y. The three-ruler is a great weapon. CAN fight.)
          3. Insurgent
            -1
            1 February 2013 11: 58
            Well, how many same su-35 a couple of pieces
          4. Moritz
            +4
            1 February 2013 17: 41
            Quote: PROXOR
            But I see no reason to chase. In addition to the radar, our generation 4 ++ does not step up to any raptorpu and F-35. Well, and at maximum speed in the afterburner mode.

            but how much inferior in quantity
        2. 0
          1 February 2013 17: 09
          Quote: Manager
          Yes, the plane is cool, but you need to build faster.

          It has not yet been proven. Tests will show. There is no engine yet ... And what exists now can be considered a technology demonstrator.
        3. Avenger711
          -1
          1 February 2013 20: 25
          You are mistaken. Refinement is the main problem.
      2. +2
        1 February 2013 11: 53
        Maybe you first need to bring the plane to mind, and then build? It will be much cheaper. Well, America will again increase its public debt and bring the plane, and then it will redo all 100 remaining ...
      3. +1
        1 February 2013 13: 15
        100 of unfinished coffins, the same amount of dough will be spent on their completion, it is a pity that they have no problems printing this very dough (.
        4 quality modified prototype, will give a high-quality series.
        1. +2
          1 February 2013 16: 42
          Let's supplement them with high-quality electronic warfare systems and "feathered sworn friends" will squeeze the experience.
  2. +14
    1 February 2013 09: 19
    The more problems the new "friends" technique has, the more pleasant it is to read the news. Give me 200 ml. for the car !!!!
    Sooner or later they will perplex themselves.
    1. alex21411
      0
      1 February 2013 18: 31
      Yes, they already put themselves on a standstill)
  3. logic
    0
    1 February 2013 09: 48
    2 T-50 fl for sure.
    Moreover, this is their flying absurdity. It will be brought and built even if it will be knocked down in batches. The plane is needed now, but there is no other. If you build a completely new one, it will take years, and the US air fleet will not be perceived as a serious enemy, hence the conclusions.
    1. Avenger711
      -1
      1 February 2013 20: 28
      F / A-18E / F disagrees with you.
    2. 0
      9 June 2017 13: 19
      America has quite normal planes that are NOT WORSE, and with a little modernization they will be BETTER than these stealth freaks, proven, reliable and very combat-ready. It is they who now bear the main burden of ensuring American expansion. And all these novelties did not have any significant impact on the course of hostilities in known conflicts (tomahawks and strike needles decided the issue) and serve only to cut the budget. Each manufactured F-35 increases Russia's defense capability significantly more than the T-50
  4. +5
    1 February 2013 09: 57
    It’s a pity to shoot down such expensive aircraft. Sorry, but have to.
  5. Cheloveck
    +6
    1 February 2013 10: 44
    It seems to me that the states, following the example of the German Reich, were carried away by wunderwaffles.
  6. borisst64
    -9
    1 February 2013 11: 01
    Our T-50 is very similar in appearance, especially from the front view, when it is not visible that our two engines.
    1. +14
      1 February 2013 11: 06
      You are wrong, they don’t look alike.
    2. DuraLexSedLex.
      -1
      1 February 2013 15: 37
      Well, there is such a science of aerodynamics ... so no offense, but all the planes are somewhat similar;) And if you show the same requirements and framework for the planes, they really will be somewhat alike, somehow So)
    3. 0
      1 February 2013 17: 28
      Quote: borisst64
      Our T-50 is very similar in appearance, especially from the front view, when it is not visible that our two engines.

      And please take a closer look, or something like that ... I can’t find the words.
    4. +1
      1 February 2013 17: 50
      Not simular. There is a certain similarity to the raptor.
      1. 0
        1 February 2013 17: 59
        Quote: Pimply
        similarity to raptor.

        Like a doe with a cow.
        1. alex21411
          +1
          1 February 2013 18: 34
          Sorry, by mistake minus slapped higher, compensation from me drinks
  7. +6
    1 February 2013 11: 07
    The plane, of course, is still the same, and the problems with the shaft and the price, but with what speed they make it, eh, we would!
  8. John from the USA
    +3
    1 February 2013 11: 08
    A similar story happened in 1944 under Hitler.
    Then Hitler decided to make dear KingTiger
  9. VoStattik
    -1
    1 February 2013 11: 18
    The plane turned out like many Western cars - too expensive and with dubious capabilities.
  10. +1
    1 February 2013 11: 29
    When the choice was made between Boeing and Lockheed by JSF, the cost of the car should not have exceeded $ 40 million. Many buyers were gathered under this, who wanted to have a 5th generation aircraft at a price slightly more expensive than the f-16. Time has shown that the price has increased many times and the growth continues, and the plane, as it were, is not the 5th generation. So customers who have already spent on them are looking the other way.
    The article indicates the cost of the Raptor as 140-150 million, as far as I know, the cost of a car with in-built research and other things is about 350 million. At the same time, the F-22 also refused a lot of things because of the over cost.
    1. +2
      1 February 2013 21: 11
      140 million is the net cost of 1 car. When it comes to the prices of our airplanes, all the numbers indicate the cost of the car without taking into account R&D, etc.
  11. +4
    1 February 2013 11: 32
    The prevailing opinion on the forum is that the airplane is so-so (I completely agree with this), and the MIG-35 is a chic and very necessary car (close the gap of light fighters) and, all other things being equal, "piles up" the F -35 unambiguously, only one snag F-35 - 100 pieces, and how many MIGs are -0, from this we draw a simple conclusion as if F-35 was not bad, what will we oppose to it in the sky? GIVE AN ORDER FOR 150 MIGS !!!!!
    1. Insurgent
      -2
      1 February 2013 12: 04
      TSOOBER Well, why such confidence on scorching, you know the f-22 program costs 75 mld, and the t-50 2 mld, the Cossack may be better than Mercedes and the amers electronics are much better this and that process
      1. +5
        1 February 2013 14: 45
        Mercedes is probably good if the pilot cannot get out of it for 5 hours laughing and get it out with a cutter!
        1. +10
          1 February 2013 17: 29
          And is everything going smoothly and not a hitch to us? People, enough hatreds already! It’s better to overestimate the enemy than to underestimate him. It would be better to discuss the technical highlights of the F-35 or F-22 project ...
          1. Pinochet000
            +3
            1 February 2013 20: 37
            Quote: Zerstorer
            People, enough hatreds already! It’s better to overestimate an adversary than to underestimate him

            Well, for example, situational awareness or cruising supersonic, stealth, and comparing the price especially in comparison with the USA is ridiculous, they print it and can say any price-cost-cost, if only to drive the allies more expensively ... IMHO
            Do not learn anything, and from our own experience, 41g forgot? The gap in the performance characteristics is even greater now ... for some species.
    2. +3
      1 February 2013 21: 12
      Quote: TSOOBER
      MIG -35 is a smart and very necessary car (to close the gap of light fighters) and, all other things being equal, "piles" on the F -35 unambiguously,

      how mad brainless haters ...
      1. +1
        3 February 2013 15: 12
        Specify however. What do not agree with?
  12. +2
    1 February 2013 11: 42
    Well, the American situation is stalemate. They actively used their aircraft, unlike our stagnation in the 90s, when they took off once a year. In addition, they have a huge share of carrier-based aircraft, and these are high take-off and landing overloads.
    That is, with a plane of equal age, the American metal has a much higher fatigue in the structure than our aircraft.
    Now this "tiredness" has reached the point that there have been cases when planes simply fell apart in the air. So far, this is a rarity, but many aircraft are already on the verge, so an F-35 replacement is urgently needed.
    1. +2
      1 February 2013 17: 16
      unfortunately, our aircraft are not to such an extent, but in the approximate suffered the same fate. more than once they wrote that the composition of the su-27 ub is very worn out and that almost half are not suitable for flights.
      in addition, their fleet is often updated. 90 boards are on the conveyor ... you just figure it out if the news about 90 su-35s at the exit appeared on our portal ... it would be just euphoria! although the prospect until 2016, like a goa under 80 pieces, is also excellent.
  13. +1
    1 February 2013 11: 43
    John from USA,
    Amendment- "Konig tiger"
    1. +1
      1 February 2013 17: 00
      Well then, more precisely - Tiger 2. Royal Tiger - an unofficial name
  14. alex popov
    0
    1 February 2013 11: 45
    Attention! You do not have permission to view hidden text.

    It reminded me of a plot from the film "Pentagon Wars" about the adoption of the BMP Bradley.
    I hope they don't have their own "Colonel Burton" and the F-35 will remain a super-expensive and little-useful wunderwolf.
    1. +2
      1 February 2013 12: 45
      The real Burton resigned shortly after those events. And the partridge prototype probably didn’t go anywhere. wink
      1. Avenger711
        -1
        1 February 2013 20: 31
        Colonel Burton is a USA faction hero in C&C Generals. laughing
      2. alex popov
        +1
        2 February 2013 18: 46
        Quote: Glenn Witcher
        The real Burton resigned shortly after those events. And the partridge prototype probably didn’t go anywhere.

        I would even raise a toast: "In order not to extinct on American soil" Generals Partridges ". Amen." laughing hi
  15. 0
    1 February 2013 11: 57
    ... However, the protracted epic with a special pilot's helmet has not yet ended ... ... the electronics of the protective headgear did not always correctly determine the position of the pilot's head relative to the aircraft, which led to the issuance of incorrect information ... ... any of the helmets is still a matter of the future. "
    It’s interesting, but are similar helmets being developed for tankers? They are probably easier to make than for pilots. And how much more convenient it would be for the tank commander in such a helmet ... Yes, and the driver would probably not refuse ...
    1. +1
      1 February 2013 21: 14
      it will be a little expensive ... for a tank
  16. newcomer
    -2
    1 February 2013 12: 05
    Quote: Stiletto
    It’s a pity to shoot down such expensive aircraft. Sorry, but have to.

    have you made a lot already? Are there many examples in history when our pilots shot down opponents "in batches"?
    1. +7
      1 February 2013 12: 16
      Quote: newbie
      have you made a lot already? Are there many examples in history when our pilots shot down opponents "in batches"?

      North Korea and Vietnam are not enough for you? And more to the spite of the day. In the spring of 1945, in the sky in Germany, a single-walking Ivan Kozhedub, was attacked by two American P-51 Mustangs who mistook him for a Wehrmacht aircraft. Kozhedub not only dodged from the attack of this pair, but also brought down both of them, since they left him no choice.
      More examples are needed! Since the days of Vietnam, this all-brave striped Asov team has been fighting only with those who already have virtually no air defense.
      1. Moritz
        +2
        1 February 2013 17: 51
        this is how we live in the past merits of our fathers and grandfathers, only then there were other people. Even air defense was practically around every industrial city, and now do we have it?
    2. Avenger711
      -2
      1 February 2013 20: 35
      On June 24, 1941, the Ju-87 group was intercepted over Minsk. Reported about 20 shot down, the Germans confirm 9 lost cars. Given the level of excess of the personal accounts of the pilots of the Red Army over the actually destroyed fascist vultures, which was about 4, the children were still modest.
  17. +8
    1 February 2013 12: 14
    It is a shame and a shame for our glorious leadership of the late 80s - early 90s, when the achievements of the huge team of KB Yakovlev, who spent years and a lot of money from the state on the development of rotary nozzles, pushed the Americans. I would not be surprised if for the money ridiculous for them. Without this, this plane would be twice as expensive as it is now. And we Yak-141 did not appear.
    1. Avenger711
      +1
      1 February 2013 20: 37
      It is necessary to them. Yakovlev award. If the Yankees had insoluble problems, they could completely abandon this trash and the project would go much easier.
  18. newcomer
    +3
    1 February 2013 13: 26
    Quote: PROXOR
    Kozhedub not only dodged from the attack of this pair, but also brought down both of them, since they left him no choice.

    isolated cases are not "packs". I will be glad for Ivan Kozhedub with you. Wasn't he interested in general statistics on the results of the war? But in vain. I would have learned a lot. How many German pilots shot down during the war years, how many our Germans, how many our pilots killed their own planes in accidents and disasters ... At the same time, take an interest in statistics, for example, F-15 and F-16 from the "striped team" - the ratio of victories to losses in air battles for all the years of its existence, and look at the same statistics for our su-27 and mig-29, it will be interesting for you ... This is certainly not a "watch" program from NTV on TV, but nevertheless ...
    1. +10
      1 February 2013 14: 14
      Quote: newbie
      isolated cases are not "packs". I will be glad for Ivan Kozhedub with you. Wasn't he interested in general statistics on the results of the war? But in vain. I would have learned a lot. How many German pilots shot down during the war years, how many our Germans, how many our pilots killed their own planes in accidents and disasters ... At the same time, take an interest in statistics, for example, F-15 and F-16 from the "striped team" - the ratio of victories to losses in air battles for all the years of its existence, and look at the same statistics for our su-27 and mig-29, it will be interesting for you ... This is certainly not a "watch" program from NTV on TV, but nevertheless ...


      And I advise you to really get to the end with all the facts.
      Fact one: Asy of the Luftwaffe chalked up all the planes that they destroyed, it doesn’t matter what it was on the ground.
      The second fact: The Luftwaffe combatant pilot had a ATTACK of 80-90 hours on the type of vehicles he was to fight on, the Soviet junior lieutenants had a maximum of 8 hours. And they were taught, unlike the Luftwaffe, only take-off and landing.
      Third fact: Soviet pilots were awarded a downed aircraft upon confirmation that the aircraft crashed either by ground troops or other members of the squadron. Since often the victories of our pilots were over enemy territory, the victory could not always be fixed. Often Asa's pilots attributed victories to other pilots, younger and less experienced, who helped to bring down the aircraft.
      Fourth fact: F-15 and F-16 did not collide in direct battle with our machines. All collisions of these fighters with ours under the control of the same Syrians, Egyptians and other countries to whom we sold them.
      Fifth fact: I don’t remember the names, but in the early 90s, our best pilots were ready and the Americans arranged training air battles. Of the 10 fights, 9 were ours and 1 was a draw.
      Newbie DO NOT PRINT MORE FIGURE !!!! It becomes a shame for such "experts" of history.
      1. +4
        1 February 2013 14: 54
        PROXOR, thank you for the "newbie" who fought back for me, his comments were addressed to me, but something was too lazy to enter the discussion on obvious things. Perfectly substantiated everything, I respect. And I think I just helped you become a captain)))
        1. +1
          1 February 2013 15: 41
          Quote: Stiletto
          And, it seems, I just helped you become a captain)))

          While the Elder I))) !!!! Oh, and do not care, I'm not here for statistics.

          Sorry, I wrote to you and saw that the captain!)))))))))))
          1. +1
            1 February 2013 16: 16
            Here I am about the same, congratulations! So to speak, "For services to the" Military Review "!
      2. SSR
        +2
        1 February 2013 15: 21
        Quote: PROXOR
        I don’t remember the names, but in the early 90s, our best pilots, for the most part, organized training air battles by the Americans

        He wanted to lie, but he couldn’t ... how the Americans wanted to ruin our dryers

        Kharchevsky and Karabasov
        http://atnews.org/news/khotel_privrat_da_ne_smog_kak_amerikosy_khoteli_nashi_sus

        hki_ugrobit / 2012-05-23-2766
        Probably, you should not tell the well-known fact in detail that then our pilots, when jointly conducting several air show battles, cleaned up the best overseas aces. The superiority of domestic technology and flying Our couple’s skill was so impressive that the American “eagles” stopped smiling and giving a hand when they met on earth. They could only grit their teeth in powerless rage, washing off their powder. At the end of the trip, it almost turned into a tragedy.

        1. SSR
          +2
          1 February 2013 15: 38
          Major General Alexander Kharchevsky fulfilled his old dream and made a demonstration flight at the helm of the Mirage-2000 fighter. During a training battle with a 30-year-old French pilot, the 52-year-old general won an undeniable victory. After the battle, the French awarded the Russian ace with the Gold Medal of the National Defense of the country - for military services and strengthening the commonwealth between the two countries.

          That’s who if he finds Kharchevsky’s story .. how he took off a Frenchman on an airplane unknown to him .. then it may become clearer what he did there)))
          1. alex popov
            +1
            2 February 2013 19: 08
            If not difficult, give a link. All get out some bits and pieces, there is no complete story.)
      3. 0
        1 February 2013 17: 13
        Prokhor, this will not even be a debate, but a desire for objectivity. Namely:

        1. "A combat pilot of the Luftwaffe had a flight time of AT LEAST 80-90 hours on the type of machine on which he was supposed to fight, Soviet junior lieutenants had a maximum of 8 hours. And unlike the Luftwaffe, they were taught only takeoff and landing."

        Is the Luftwaffe pilots guilty of this? and does it detract from their military merits?

        2. "Since often the victories of our pilots were over enemy territory, the victory could not always be recorded."

        And why would the victories of German pilots be only over their territory? logically, their victories were mainly over our territory, especially in 41-43. Why didn’t they face the problem of fixing victories?
        1. Kassandra
          0
          11 August 2014 10: 08
          but they didn’t have any problems, Assam believed a word ... someone lied to someone not.
      4. Avenger711
        -1
        1 February 2013 20: 48
        To begin with, the army prepares soldiers as much as it can afford, we have infantrymen, for example, already in the 42nd training period was 3 months, officers from 9-10 months were taught. Therefore, the tales of 8 hours will tell children. Something, but the process of making up for losses was excellent for us, but the Germans in the 44th were already a bit tense with this. The take-off of the accounts of German aces, just goes on for the period after 43 years, when young pilots quickly knocked out, and all sorts of Hartmans worked for two, or even three.

        Confirmation of victory was all howling parties, about the same worthless. Hence overstatement of real successes by 4-6 times.
      5. Heccrbq
        0
        5 February 2013 00: 27
        Do not be so self-confident, read about the direct clashes of the F-16 and ours
        http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/afgan/awar/awar.html

        Do not be so self-confident, read about the direct clashes of the F-16 and ours
        http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/afgan/awar/awar.html

        Do not be so self-confident, read about the direct clashes of the F-16 and ours
        http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/afgan/awar/awar.html

        Do not be so self-confident, read about the direct clashes of the F-16 and ours
        http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/afgan/awar/awar.html

        Do not be such a self-confident "expert", read about the collisions of the F-16 and our
        http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/afgan/awar/awar.html
      6. Heccrbq
        0
        5 February 2013 00: 52
        http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/afgan/awar/awar.html Это про Ф-16 и наших ,от знатОка !
      7. Kassandra
        0
        10 August 2014 15: 20
        F-15, F-14 and F-16 clashed in Lebanon in 1983-1984 with normal, practically non-exporting MiG-23MLDs, therefore they (and NATO too) do not like to write about that war bully
        Until 1988, there was nothing cooler than him in the west. Then came the modifications of the F-15 with overclocked engines, which the MiG-23 could not withstand due to its single-engine.
        F-14 to the level of MiG on thrust-weight ratio could reach only in 1994, when it had long been withdrawn from service. laughing
    2. SSR
      +6
      1 February 2013 15: 12
      Quote: newbie
      But was he not interested in general statistics on the results of the war? But in vain. I would learn a lot.

      In general, you still need to find out and find out)))
      Hartman warned that it was necessary to refuse an attack if enemy bombers were flying to bomb German positions, and Russian cover fighters noticed the Hartman fighter and did not give him a chance for a surprise attack. In this case, Hartman refused, as he believed, a meaningless risk.
      , and let the bombs pour on the equipment and the soldier, but Hartman is alive and well - the logic is iron. But not fighters are needed by ground troops, they are created to fight enemy bombers,

      And Pokryshkin is Hartman on the contrary

      http://topwar.ru/7288-v-chem-byla-sila-asov-lyuftvaffe.html

      The objectives and goals were different ...
      destroying a train is more important than shooting down a plane .. in general, read, study and learn a lot of new things
      and yes .. after all, do not forget: that we fought not with the Papuans but with a country that overwhelmed other European countries in weeks.
      And we knocked out teeth with a mighty beast.
    3. Avenger711
      -1
      1 February 2013 20: 51
      And what about statistics? We lost 40k aircraft in the battles during the War, but only IL-2 built 36k. Amers also have about 40k like a loss. More cars lost on the banal wear than from the harsh Teutonic aces.

      Su-27 entered the battles only with the MiG-29. Predictably won, and even there, like the Su-27SK, were newer than opposing MiGs.
  19. +5
    1 February 2013 13: 34
    In fact, there are enough problems with the F-22 as well))) The pilot of the fifth-generation F-22 Raptor multipurpose destroyer sat on the plane for five hours because he simply could not open the cockpit light. But the best engineers of Lockheed Martin, Boeing and General Dynamics worked on this fighter! As a result, the poor fellow was released by cutting the polycarbonate coating of the cabin.
    1. +1
      1 February 2013 13: 49
      And what are they at zero height and can not eject ??? laughing
      1. Avenger711
        -1
        1 February 2013 20: 53
        Dangerously. A spinal injury is possible, therefore, after ejection, the first thing to go to the hospital.
    2. +2
      1 February 2013 13: 53
      MENTOR, thanks, pleased - this is +++. Apparently, it was assumed that the pilot generally did not need to get out of there.
      Everything becomes clear with the cost of the aircraft - the canning itself costs a lot of money, the corkscrew is obviously not cheap, and those that are thinking around Lockheed for three are clearly not using 15 tr per month receive. So consider)))
    3. Insurgent
      -4
      1 February 2013 15: 03
      You better ask Russian pilots how they fly
      1. +6
        1 February 2013 17: 54
        Quote: Insurgent
        You better ask Russian pilots how they fly

        Now I only talked with my son on the phone. All is well with him. The day before yesterday I talked with his friend, he serves in the West, he also flies well. So gentlemen, Jews will not wait.
        1. Insurgent
          -1
          1 February 2013 18: 51
          You better ask what is his raid And what is the state and in Israel
    4. +3
      1 February 2013 17: 53
      Does this mean that the car is bad? No, rather, it speaks of the openness of the military sources there and active communication with the press.
  20. +1
    1 February 2013 15: 11
    And only I noticed that they are going to 90 boards at a factory right away !? One must give must impressive!
  21. DuraLexSedLex.
    -1
    1 February 2013 15: 29
    Problems by problems, BUT it is lower and MASS) But ours will be sawn until it is sawn ... maybe we’ll come up with something ...
  22. +5
    1 February 2013 16: 27
    Hello. I can’t understand why everyone compares the F35 to the T50 and rejoices that we have here, now also an analogue. As I understand it, the heavy and expensive T50 is a competitor to F22, but we don’t have a lighter, cheaper and more massive one like F35 !!! And therefore, I believe that it is wrong to compare the T-50 with the F35. Yes, it is possible and most likely it will be so that the T-50 will be better than the f-35, but the f-35 will replace the F-16, f-22 to replace the F-15, We have the T-50 to replace and a class like Su-27-35, but we don’t have a replacement for the moment 29-35. I haven’t read anywhere (maybe I’m mistaken) that the development of a lightweight 5th generation fighter to replace the Mig-29, with a body using stealth technology, and internal weapons compartments would be blown out. So while the bourgeois is overtaking !!!
    1. -3
      1 February 2013 16: 37
      Quote: greka

      Hello. I can’t understand why everyone compares the F35 to the T50 and rejoices that we have here, now also an analogue. As I understand it, the heavy and expensive T50 is a competitor to F22, but we don’t have a lighter, cheaper and more massive one like F35 !!! And therefore, I believe that it is wrong to compare the T-50 with the F35. Yes, it is possible and most likely it will be so that the T-50 will be better than the f-35, but the f-35 will replace the F-16, f-22 to replace the F-15, We have the T-50 to replace and a class like Su-27-35, but we don’t have a replacement for the moment 29-35. I haven’t read anywhere (maybe I’m mistaken) that the development of a lightweight 5th generation fighter to replace the Mig-29, with a body using stealth technology, and internal weapons compartments would be blown out. So while the bourgeois is overtaking !!!

      The question is, what for is it needed? We have a fighter for gaining air supremacy. This is the T-50. As soon as he opens the sky, vehicles to destroy ground targets enter the battle. Now I can’t even understand the purpose of the F-35. Okay! On aircraft carriers F-35 will go. With the vertical thing. And at ordinary airfields? !!!! Re-equip MIG-29 The same helmet, new avionics, detection systems and engines. And we can assume that billions of Baku have gone away.

      Although stop, I get sucks I know our cars:
      The main differences of the MiG-35 / MiG-35D:
      integration of fifth-generation information and sighting systems into the on-board electronic equipment;
      the possibility of using advanced aviation weapons of Russian and foreign production;
      increased combat survival achieved through the introduction of an airborne defense system;
      integrated radar Zhuk-A. An active phased antenna array allows Zhuk-A [4] to increase the range of target detection, operate simultaneously in air-to-air and air-to-surface modes, recognize and classify group and single objects, and simultaneously attack multiple targets with highly accurate weapons, as well as provide communications and electronic countermeasures. [5] This greatly increases its combat capabilities and brings it closer to the fifth generation fighters
      1. -1
        1 February 2013 16: 50
        Maybe you’re right that you can manage to gain superiority in the air with one type of aircraft !! But maybe, and the measures are not fools either, we cannot know for sure everything that the f-35 is capable of. If you expect that, in fact, it will become as massive as it was supposed about 2000pcs. and he will be much better than their latest f-16, then maybe it will be good. And why was there previously a separation into two types of light and heavy? Like amers and we, Who knows?
      2. Eraser
        +2
        1 February 2013 17: 33
        At ordinary airfields will be F-35A, with the usual take-off and landing, which will be built most of the three modifications.
      3. Avenger711
        -1
        1 February 2013 20: 56
        The appointment as a strike aircraft is just understandable. It is unclear who will work in the air defense, although you can still get the F-22 ready.
    2. +1
      1 February 2013 17: 36
      It’s ridiculous to compare the T-50 with the F-35. The T-50 is a prototype, the F-35 is in serial production
      F-35 and F-22 are divided rather than as a heavy / light fighter (this is the concept of aviation of 4 generations), but as airplanes with different areas of application.
      The F-22 aircraft was created in the 90s as a specialized "fighter fighter", and since the aircraft against which it was intended did not appear, it was built in a small number (for the USA).
      And F-35 is the first attempt to create a fully multipurpose fighter equally effective against both air and ground targets.
  23. 0
    1 February 2013 16: 38
    Amer crap
  24. +5
    1 February 2013 17: 18
    If you squeeze all the water out of the article and leave only the facts, it turns out that the F-35 has only 2 problems
    1) High cost creating problems with export contracts.
    2) Unclaimed helmet
    At the same time, the aircraft was launched into serial production and its pace is growing, the hundredth aircraft is being built.
    All this is extremely alarming.
    Overcoming the consequences of "army reforms" it is necessary at least to repair our ancient aircraft fleet.
    And, be sure, step up efforts on the T-50 program.
  25. +4
    1 February 2013 17: 21
    F-35 passes the standard run-in and landing on the wing in combat units, it is always not an easy process, as in Russia, in the USA and Zimbabwe) Any complex aviation complex, of which the F-35 is, will always have certain problems. It’s better or worse, time will tell, but several important factors must be taken into account, such as the fact that the Americans are the strongest in the world in the development and production of electronics and overtake us here significantly, that the Americans have never yielded to us either in engine building or in material science, which they ALWAYS created very, very technically advanced and advanced aircraft, in many ways just forcing us to look for the answer and catch up. Now we need to remember that they did not have 20 years of the collapse of everything and everyone and the mass exodus of specialists abroad. The F-35 is already in the series and why can one think that a fighter manufactured in 2012 by a country that always goes to the cutting edge of NTR is bad?
    1. +1
      1 February 2013 18: 12
      Quote: barbiturate
      that a fighter produced in 2012 by a country that always goes to the edge of scientific and technological revolution is bad?

      And no one says that he is bad, he is just very expensive and the refusal to purchase it by several customers will put an even greater strain on Americans, and this cannot but rejoice.
      1. +1
        2 February 2013 15: 48
        The plane will not be bad. And the fact that it is expensive - it happened so, but I think that this will not prevent Amers from buying it in large quantities, despite the fact that the construction pace is obvious. And the price has not influenced it much. Bake like pies !!! Will Russia be able to buy so many 5th generation aircraft?
  26. newcomer
    +3
    1 February 2013 18: 57
    Quote: PROXOR
    Newbie DO NOT PRINT MORE FIGURE !!!! It becomes a shame for such "experts"

    I didn't print any garbage. but only suggested that you familiarize yourself with the statistics of our Ministry of Defense: how many planes we had during the war years and how many Germans had, how many they shot down ours and how many we had. German official data, see how many aircraft they produced during the war years and how many they lost, how many on the western front and how many on the eastern. these figures are FACTS. and you tell me about the memories of Kozhedub or Hartman, be he not okay. and by the way ask your friend stiletto (he must be an ace pilot if he is going to shoot down the f-35 "packs") are there many combat pilots in our air force capable of refueling in the air and landing on deck? if there are many, I will be very glad that he will not have to bring down enemies alone.
    1. 0
      5 February 2013 15: 21
      I didn’t want to get involved, but I’ll answer. We have pilots, good pilots. And cars to match them. If for some reason this does not suit you, cover yourself with a star-striped flag and wait for your beloved F-35 to arrive.
  27. 0
    1 February 2013 19: 33
    Quote: cherkas.oe
    And no one says that he is bad, he is just very expensive and the refusal to purchase it by several customers will put an even greater strain on Americans, and this cannot but rejoice.


    Well, the fact that dear, this is another matter, amers can print a lot of dollar paper and all the other countries of the world, they will sell the labor of their people and natural resources for this paper, as now. With this money, amers build their F-35s) Refusal of purchases by several countries is just a miser in total volumes (well, how many fighters Denmark or Australia buy, two three dozen, a trifle in the general program), this will not load, you will see, they many will be forced to buy F-35
  28. +1
    1 February 2013 20: 04
    "... potential exporters of the F-35 should take into account that if it (F-35) is removed from the structure of the US Expeditionary Air Force, then the combat capabilities of the Lightning II aircraft will significantly decrease ..." (c)
    A very interesting and rather detailed article about the F-35 and its problems. As for me - more serious and more fully discussed
    .http: //www.arms-expo.ru/055057052124053055057048.html
    An interesting and, in my opinion, justifiably presented simulation of air combat between the Su-35 and F-35.
    In general, to bring down one Drying you need 3-4 "Lighting".
    1. +3
      1 February 2013 22: 03
      Me for something to minus? :))))))))))))))) I both bought and sold. So it is written in the article to which I referred. . And justified. If you mind - bring your arguments against that model. We discuss.
      Or was it a shame for this pregnant penguin (F-35)?
  29. 0
    1 February 2013 20: 49
    When will we build aircraft at the same pace?
  30. Avenger711
    +2
    1 February 2013 22: 21
    It seems that infa recently slipped that it is not possible to achieve the requirements in a number of parameters, the lag is quite serious. From this, in principle, the price rises, that you need to constantly finish something. Failures and party reductions are already secondary, but they have the same effect, because you have to make a profit.

    The mass construction does not bode well before being adopted, the machines will have to be redone, similarly, doubts about the production T-50s in 2015 are raised. They’ll build 10 cars to speed up the tests, they’ll call it a series, not a single one will get into combat units even after the start of mass production, or to finish it, or for experiments, or in a museum. It is possible that after the first Su-35 such a large break was just to avoid this and the second board should be fixed according to the comments on the slipway.

    Regarding the helmet, then I'm sorry, but this is idiocy. There are generally accepted development methods. This helmet is not necessary for the entire program, and in general it can be used on any aircraft, the question is to equip the machine with sensors, so the obvious solution is to use the ILS, and add the helmet as you finish it.

    As practice shows, a technique built from untreated components is doomed to constant flaws and dies quickly.

    As for the F-35 itself, a couple of days ago I spoke out that the Su-35 is a serious and long-term, and the stealth fighter itself is a conceptually strange idea. Reprint when copy-paste is broken, so:

    Fighters have 2 main tasks:
    - Providing air defense.
    - Escort of their strike aircraft.

    For the first task, invisibility is not particularly needed, a fighter is obliged to attack enemy attack planes and disrupt their mission. Partisanism in the style of the MiG-21 in Vietnam is contraindicated here, because it does not solve the problem and is applied only from weakness.
    But you need a large number of aircraft to banal coverage of the territory, and at the same time intercept maximum targets. That is, price comes to the fore. Although, like the interceptor, the T-50 over the Su-35 still has one advantage - higher throw speed and longer range, due to optimization for long supersonic flight.

    The second task requires aircraft with the same level of visibility, but you can even try to get away from it, because if we have a bomber, we don’t need to accompany it. By itself, the tactics of using strike aircraft involves stealth. That is, the large T-50 compartments directly ask that they not load air-to-air missiles there, but KAB-1500, or some X-31.

    Unlike fighters, which are spread out in all directions, and are waiting for a command to intercept in 24x7 mode, attack planes can be quietly concentrated on the alleged theater of operations, in the event of a threat, that is, their number may be relatively small. Just a niche for an expensive first-strike superweapon. That is why only 117 units were built.


    If you look from this side, then the F-35, as a light bomber, is logical in principle, well, apart from the ridiculous F-35B, from which more attack aircraft are expected. Actually, the program is called Joint Strike Fighter

    But the amers get such a situation that at 2400 F-35 there will be 180 F-22. Some strange ratio. Will air defense be held on airplanes with a maximum speed below 2000 km / h and a thrust-weight ratio at the level of the 4th generation, if not lower, although the engine obviously still has more reserves than previous models? The miscalculation may not be in the F-35, as such, it will be finished, sooner or later, but in the very construction of the Air Force.

    No, to democratize someone in Asia, or Africa, fighters are not particularly needed, you can fit fifty F-22s with AWACS, hammer in all these MiG-21s donated by the USSR 40 years ago, and bombs at your pleasure.
    1. 0
      3 February 2013 20: 37
      Quote: Avenger711
      and a stealth fighter in itself is a conceptually strange idea.

      The meaning of Stealth is simple.
      1) Stealth gives a big advantage in DVB.
      2) Allows you to reduce the detection line of ground-based radars, and increase the chances of overcoming air defense.
      Quote: Avenger711
      Air defense will be kept on airplanes with a maximum speed below 2000 km / h and with a thrust-weight ratio of the 4th generation,

      It's still simpler here.
      The United States simply does not need a specialized air defense fighter.
      Look at the map - from the north of Canada, from the south of Mexico, from the West, East, the ocean, abroad Amer bases everywhere. Only Soviet YES were considered a hypothetical threat to the territory of the USA, now this threat has disappeared
      But nevertheless (purely for reinsurance), all Reptors are just involved in the air defense system based only in the United States (from Florida to Alaska)
      1. Avenger711
        0
        5 February 2013 16: 26
        The DVB, in principle, does not solve the air defense problem, you won’t scare the enemy by launching a missile over 100 km, the statistics are disappointing, even when shooting at virtually helpless targets like the Yugoslav MiG-29 with non-working radars, only 30% of hits were achieved.
        An air defense aircraft must overcome air defense.

        The United States does not have dangerous neighbors, but in case of conflict it may be necessary to destroy the enemy air forces, fighters are needed here again, plus allies that can enter a full-scale war must be armed.

        F-22s are based not only in the USA.
  31. +3
    2 February 2013 00: 02
    Sooner or later, the plane will turn out to be good, but so expensive that the flight of the squadron is possible only after the president’s personal permission .... and then after agreement with the congress.
  32. Larus
    0
    4 February 2013 01: 19
    I will say this: if F 22 were such a cool airplane, then you and I would observe it in all the conflicts of the world where you climb, but for now this wunderwafer can fly only in a straight line and not high. The same applies to this f 35 , which will be the same UWB hangar plane and nowhere else.
    In general, the money is needed for the right people in These, and we are seeing drop dead expenses for everything.
  33. MG42
    +2
    5 February 2013 00: 32
    Every shot down in the future F35 will be a heart attack for Uncle Sam = really hellishly expensive. Although there was news that the Pentagon’s budget in 2013 will be cut.
    But, as already mentioned, there is no turning back; the F-35s will serve at all costs.

    Yes, yes, boldly bring the mark of 17 trillion. $ debt = this is not the limit.
  34. 0
    9 February 2013 12: 03
    One gets the impression that the F22 is a prestige aircraft, like a toy, like, I have one, but you don’t. Why do they stamp F35, they are afraid they will not have time before the default of the buck, to complete the program of pumping material assets. A national debt of approximately 17 trillion is not Khuhra-Muhrah recourse. Most likely they will write off the war, oh how you don’t want it. Wait and see soldier
    1. CSI
      0
      29 February 2016 17: 19
      while the grandmas pay on debt, the dollar will hold ... what