Let me express my doubts: why would they hit Kyiv with Zircon?

67
Let me express my doubts: why would they hit Kyiv with Zircon?

Apparently, out of doubt it will soon be possible to collect the series. But what can you do if from time to time… “Zircons” fly into the information space and are knocked down by packs of “Daggers”. Well, no one is against it, war is worse than hunting and fishing, those who are supposed to lie there are simply enchanting.

But sometimes the level overwhelms.



I watched very carefully for 24 hours what was happening in the telegram channels on both sides of the LBS; something was happening that was not entirely clear. The Ukrainians shouted loudly that they had been hit with Zircon, our most rabid part spoke in the style of “Yes, but if we need to, we’ll add more,” and a very small part of the sober-minded tried to think about the situation.

In fact, the evidence that it was “Zircon” from the Ukrainians was not something the cat cried, but scribbled with a claw. Is this picture, with the alphanumeric “3M22” painted on it, proof? Is this a marking? Are you seriously?


And there is another number. No. 23066. And this number seems to indicate that this is not a top ten item. And here I would think about where it landed. Although, if, as some claim, here we use parts from microwaves and washing machines with all our might, then everything fits together. They took something out, relabeled it as “3M22” and sent it where it was supposed to go. That is, for assembly. Here you have a manually applied number and everything else. Sarcasm, of course, but what else?

But without laughing, then all this hype, of course, is good to a certain extent, but in fact, it is more than difficult to make an identification based on one detail. Especially if you start asking stupid questions out loud.

And the first stupid question is: what does the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine say about what arrived there? And on the basis of what information did the Ukrainian side conclude that it was Zircon?

But the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine and the rest of the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine... are silent! And he says nothing on this topic! And, by the way, it’s clear why: because Kiev has no information about Zircon at all and cannot have it! Therefore, the Ukrainian military, who have not lost their brains, are distantly watching the unfolding carnival and are silent. On the one hand, they have nothing to say, and they can remain silent, because now others will say everything for them.

And then, to identify a rocket, you first need to at least have an idea of ​​what it looks like and what it’s made of.

Attention, second stupid question: who saw “Zircon”?


Answering this question, I would say this: whoever was supposed to saw it saw it. There is such a thing - secrecy. And it is she who determines, through the implementation of certain norms set by documents, who has access to missiles of this nature. Developers, manufacturers, testers, engineering and technical personnel. The rest, sorry, are not allowed. There are pictures in Google-Yandex - study them.

Now someone in the know will indignantly say that the pictures there have nothing to do with Zircon, these are the free imaginations of draftsmen on the theme of the American hypersonic X-51, so what can I say... there’s nothing to say, we’ll remain silent. It's like that. We look at the X-51, fortunately that it is hypersonic, and we realize that the Zircon is probably the same. Or perhaps not, but we are not supposed to know that yet.


Therefore, on the basis of which, gentlemen, experts even from the Kyiv Scientific Research Institute of Forensic Expertise, who studied the wreckage, concluded that it was “Zircon” - the third question. To which there is no answer, and it is not yet possible to ask experts. I hope - for now. Otherwise it would be very interesting to ask briefly.

And the last question: where did they launch it from? It is clear that the start from the Crimea region was tracked, but still?

Here some people already screamed that there was nowhere to launch from, since we planned the Zircon on the Nakhimov, Peter the Great, the Antey nuclear submarine and a number of projects such as the nuclear destroyer Leader and the eighth-generation submarine Husky. That is, they have mastered Wikipedia, and the process has begun. And they even measured the distance from Murmansk to Kyiv, concluding that the Zircon could not fly.

They remembered, however, that they could (well, they promised on all sorts of forums) to use the Zircon to modernize the Bastion coastal anti-ship complex. Or they might not have modernized it. It's so vague with us, you know.


Okay, let’s leave out nuclear cruisers, leave nuclear submarines alone, and just keep coastal missile systems in mind. What remains? Yes, a lot of things in general. Some gentlemen forgot that we seem to have been working on a unification program since 2012, so it is theoretically possible to launch Zircon from the same UKSK, which is 3S14. Together with "Caliber" and "Onyx". But here there are possible options, because we don’t have many ships with UKSK, but we do have them. And these are by no means nuclear-powered cruisers, the size of a small village, but completely sane corvettes, frigates, and so on.

But here’s the thing, a ship is an even more noticeable phenomenon than an airplane. Yes, I glance a little towards the same MiG-31 with the Dagger, well, you understand. If panic begins on the other side when the 31st takes off in the evening, then that means they can see. Naturally, with the help of US satellites, it is possible to detect the exit of any ship from any Russian port. And they detect it.

But here the only thing that was sanely voiced from the other side was the arrival of some kind of ballistic missile from the Crimea. Therefore, they have already recovered - from the territory of Crimea.

Or maybe we should listen to ours?


And with ours from the RF Ministry of Defense everything is as usual, but about attracting fleet not a word.

“On the morning of February 7, a group strike was carried out against targets in the rear regions of Ukraine with high-precision weapons long range air and ground based. Among other things, industrial enterprises where unmanned boats, coastal missile systems, and missiles for rocket launchers are assembled were attacked.”

It is somewhat vague, but even before the Ministry of Defense did not list exactly what the strikes were carried out with an accuracy of one. The fact that there was no talk about Zircon is a normal and quite ordinary thing.

But here something else becomes clear, even more important: the ships were not involved in this task. At all. Only coastal launchers remain under suspicion. Precisely coastal ones, the Zircon is primarily an anti-ship missile. That is, with great nuances in application.

We should never forget that an anti-ship missile is primarily designed to destroy ships. That is, radio-contrast targets, which are ships against the background of the water surface. In cities it is more difficult for anti-ship missiles, but they can also work. So the use of Onyx and possibly Zircon against coastal targets for testing purposes is justified. In the end, if there are no targets at sea, what now, not test the missiles?

So if the Zircon was launched, it was from a coastal complex, modernized for the use of this missile. However, there was no information about such complexes in the media, and all assumptions are based only on the fact that no launches were made from the ships.

What did they say on the other side?


It was like this: during the missile attack, at approximately 7.40, a number of TG channels broadcast reports that a ballistic missile was coming from Crimea in the direction of Kyiv. A little later, at 7.44, the Ukrainian Air Force confirmed the movement of a “high-speed missile” towards the capital. Well, then it went crazy.

However, already in the afternoon information came from the Americans that the missile was supersonic, but not hyper.

In general, if you look at the map, this is what it turns out: from Sevastopol (well, there is a place where you can secretly place vehicles from the BRKK) to Kyiv in a straight line, 700 km.


The announced speed characteristics of the Zircon are Mach 6-8 (7200-9600 km/h). Let's take 6M, that is, 7000 km/h to make the calculations easier.

Using the calculator, we find that the Zircon flight from Sevastopol to Kyiv takes no more than 6 minutes. Well, with acceleration, possible maneuvering - let it be 10 from our bounty, although it is clearly too much.

Doesn't fit.

Why? It's simple. How does the start happen? The rocket is ejected with a starting charge, orients itself, turns on the engine and begins to accelerate and set course according to a given program. Even if it was “seen” by air defense radars at the moment of launch. Fine. How long does it take for the radar operators to figure out exactly where the missile is going? At least a minute, or even two. Everyone is convinced that they are heading to Kyiv, then the report. First to your superiors, then further along the team.

Communication works well, the command does not sleep, and gives orders quickly. From the moment he starts, he has no more than 2-3 minutes to do everything. Who will give information to telegram operators there? And even more so, to confirm that “a very fast rocket is coming”? Bredovo. They didn’t have that much time, even if the missile was detected by radar around Kyiv. We had to do other things, for example, try to shoot down a rocket.

But, nevertheless, it was not possible to shoot it down.

According to the TG channel Monitor, the flight of the rocket was a kind of hybrid of the flight of the Kinzhal and Onyx, but the speed of the rocket along the entire flight path was not hypersonic. The “power of medicine” prefers not to throw around statements, which is why “experts” on the Internet are simply exhausted with effort. The only thing that Yuri Ignat, known to us, voiced was that investigators are working with the debris to determine what kind of missile was used to strike. “Splitting” an exploded rocket is not an easy task, good luck to them there.

I immediately remembered the noise that was made by the investigators of the prosecutor’s office and the Kharkov police last year. These serious missile experts seriously argued that Russia was firing North Korean KN-23 ballistic missiles at Kharkov.

Now the marking “3M22” is also proof? In general, one could then simply take it and engrave: “Tse Zircon.” And there would be fewer questions.

But as in that joke: if a fellow captain said that crocodiles fly, then they fly.

In fact, I believe the Americans and their data on the speed of the rocket. And they say that it was a completely ordinary supersonic missile, like the Onyx or Caliber, which are 2-5 times slower than the Zircon. And let no one be confused by the word “ballistic” in the Ukrainian report. This is the normal practice of using anti-ship missiles, with them reaching a height, beyond the reach of enemy air defense missiles, and descending with acceleration at the final part of the trajectory.

In general, what is causing this noise?


Yes, everything is as simple as daylight. The Ukrainians, if they didn’t miss the launch of the rocket, were unable to do anything with it. Of course, now they don’t run around with their phones and take pictures, but it seems to me that the rocket hit where we needed it. That is, the target was hit. And this is exactly what they call zrada on the other side. Full of such evil.

What they showed of the destroyed building - excuse me, knock out one entrance with a warhead of 400 kg of TNT, accelerated to 8 km/h? Somehow I can’t believe it. What if they really hit the factory? According to the one our Ministry of Defense was talking about? And why didn’t they shoot it down if they saw it? Where did the calculations go?

The crews, of course, could have reloaded, since the attack was coming from different directions. But if a significant object is removed, it would be very easy to blame everything on Zircon. They couldn’t, because it’s all hypersonic. Give Ukraine the most modern missiles, please. No, it’s a good script, a good one in its entirety. Everything is taken into account.

The only thing they didn’t take into account was that the Americans also saw the launch, tracked it, and observed all the parameters. And they understood perfectly well that there was no “Zircon” there, but something simpler and more ordinary that the Ukrainian anti-aircraft gunners simply could not intercept.

By the way, the Ukrainian observer Alexander Kovalenko gave a very good opinion that it was not the Zircon that flew to Kiev, but a completely different rocket, not with the same characteristics, the design of which used the same part as the Zircon. This is where the “3M22” marking comes from. No one yet knows what this part was responsible for in the design, but its number indicates that this is a very widespread part. And in reality it can be used in the design of other rockets, since at that time it had already been produced in quantities of more than 20 thousand units.

Some kind of wing deployment unit, for example, which was used in a rocket of a different design.

And this is one of the proofs, but I still consider the telemetry taken by the Americans to be the main one. And it indicates that the rocket did not fly at hypersonic speed, which means it was not a Zircon. And then questions to the Ukrainian anti-aircraft gunners.
In general, no one has officially confirmed this information about Zircon - neither representatives of the Russian Ministry of Defense, nor other high-ranking officials, nor the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense. A calmer part of the media believes that if there really was a Zircon strike, this means that the missile was launched using ground-based systems.

If this is so, and “Bastion” has been modernized, then this means decent hemorrhoids not only for the Ukrainian Armed Forces, but also for NATO. It is much more difficult to track a moving truck than the same MiG-31, the takeoffs of which activate the air raid warning throughout Ukraine. A hypersonic missile is a very problematic weapon for the receiving party.

But for now, it looks more like the Ukrainians have decided to use the Zircon campaign to justify their own failures. And here it is clear why they knock down “Zircon” - “Daggers” and “Calibers” in batches.
67 comments
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  1. +1
    16 February 2024 05: 08

    And this is one of the proofs, but I still consider the telemetry taken by the Americans to be the main one.

    Where do you get such confidence that the Americans didn’t slip you a phony?
    Believing them does not respect yourself...so many times they have deceived our society with false statements...so everything from there must be checked for veracity.
    Well, according to the article... there is a war going on... don’t trust anyone so as not to completely screw it up.
  2. 0
    16 February 2024 05: 21
    Question for physicists. Can a hypersonic missile really be a cruise missile? Won't the wings fall off at high speeds?
    1. 0
      16 February 2024 06: 09
      Quote: Andrey Moskvin
      Won't the wings fall off at high speeds?

      They may fall off, but, first of all, they will serve as an air brake for the rocket
      1. +3
        16 February 2024 06: 36
        And that's what I'm talking about. Iskander's rudders are tiny.
    2. +2
      16 February 2024 14: 46
      Well, the wing can be different for different speeds, with different profiles and strength. Compare Tu-154 and Tu-144, for example.
      In addition, high-speed aircraft often use the so-called “integral” layout, when the lifting force is created by all elements of the airframe, and it is often impossible to say where the wing ends and the fuselage begins. And the higher the speed, the less load-bearing area is needed, so that only hints remain of the wing.
  3. +5
    16 February 2024 05: 36
    Zircon or not zircon - what's the difference. Because of what "!fuss". Inflicting maximum damage on the enemy is the task of any armies of any countries. Zircon is not a prohibited or restricted weapon (like nuclear weapons, chemical weapons or anti-personnel mines).
    Not a day without a line
    (Y. Olesha)
    1. +6
      16 February 2024 06: 11
      Quote: Amateur
      Zircon or not zircon - what's the difference?

      What difference does it make than to strike. The main thing is the result
  4. +15
    16 February 2024 06: 05
    Each shelling of Belgorod must be accompanied by the arrival of Zircon in the center of Kyiv. By buildings that are iconic for the junta. The Verkhovna Rada, the office of the drug-addicted president, Independence Square and all the buildings around. And preferably during the day. And we are still playing around with them.
    1. +3
      16 February 2024 06: 56
      Quote: Vladimirsky
      Each shelling of Belgorod must be accompanied by the arrival of Zircon in the center of Kyiv

      It won't do anything. These ghouls don't give a damn.
      1. +1
        16 February 2024 13: 26
        So it doesn’t fly on them, and nothing ever
    2. +3
      16 February 2024 08: 44
      Alexander, in principle there should be no shelling of Belgorod, as well as Donetsk, etc. after all, 2 years have passed, and there should have been strikes, as the “cheesecake” once said at the very beginning of the war, on the office and on everyone near it , but the most vile agreements are more valuable and more valuable than the lives of civilians, positive changes cannot be expected.
    3. +3
      16 February 2024 11: 09
      Why should Belgorod and other Russian territories be shelled? If the Guarantor cannot guarantee the safety of the citizens of the country, then he must resign. But here everything is the other way around. NWO is not a war, but our territories are being shelled, shelled and civilians are killed, that’s what they call it.
  5. +9
    16 February 2024 06: 33
    And there is another number. No. 23066. And this number seems to indicate that this is not a top ten item

    At factories, it is customary to put the year of manufacture at the beginning of the product numbering. So I would decipher this number as follows: the part was released in 2023 with serial number 66. Not the first ten, but the seventh. The question is how many similar parts were produced in the process of debugging production, testing, etc. So there is no contradiction with the fact that they used Zircon. It bothers me a little that the part is signed with a regular marker. For example, we have been using laser marking for a long time. Somehow there is a poor correlation between the high-tech production of ultra-modern missiles and this method of marking.
  6. +2
    16 February 2024 06: 34
    And there is another number. No. 23066. And this number seems to indicate that this is not a top ten item

    At factories, it is customary to put the year of manufacture at the beginning of the product numbering. So I would decipher this number as follows: the part was released in 2023 with serial number 66. Not the first ten, but the seventh. The question is how many similar parts were produced in the process of debugging production, testing, etc. So there is no contradiction with the fact that they used Zircon. It bothers me a little that the part is signed with a regular marker. For example, we have been using laser marking for a long time. Somehow there is a poor correlation between the high-tech production of ultra-modern missiles and this method of marking.
    1. +7
      16 February 2024 08: 59
      Factories can label them ANY WAY they want. Here, for example, is the marking of cable drums O-2925/10-22 or here 5142569. Here is another example 12 030 09 560. and if in the first case the LAST digit is the year. In others you won’t find any year anywhere. Or maybe there is an option where the FIRST digit is the year. For example 23TT-4444. There is simply No. 463. That's all.
      Therefore, all these fabrications with No. 23066 are worthless.
      I can break this down with a bunch of options. For example, workshop 23, team 06, quality control inspector No. 6. Or maybe there is continuous numbering from the day the plant was founded, or the start of product production. Or product No. 230 option No. 6, plant No. 6
  7. +7
    16 February 2024 07: 29
    Yes, let them make noise, why find out anything, what difference does it make to us? The whole article is essentially just water. What we have is what we hit, something new has appeared and we also hit it, Korea gave it as a gift and is also ready for launch. Reasonings of people who have nothing to do.
    1. +6
      16 February 2024 08: 44
      The whole article is essentially just water.
      Do not interfere with the author's efforts to improve his financial situation.
    2. 0
      16 February 2024 23: 49
      In fact, the most convincing argument is the actual place where the zircon fell, there is a photo below. Actually, this article could begin and end with this; a crater cannot be smaller than a rocket, and even not contain anything similar to the fragments of a multi-ton rocket
  8. +4
    16 February 2024 07: 38
    Please note that cities and towns that should then belong to Russia are being destroyed. Now the Ukrainian Armed Forces have begun evacuating the population from Chasovoy Yar. Why not from Lvov? This humanism of Putin’s government outrages me! We destroy into dust not only what should then go to us, but also allow us to destroy our own, on our territory! What does this mean? What we destroy into dust will belong to us, and what does not, Putin is going to give to the West in negotiations, which he constantly begs for.
  9. +2
    16 February 2024 07: 45
    Zircon is not Zircon....
    Everything that flies and falls NEEDS to be tested on banderlogs.
    Even the Voevoda ICBM....
    And I don’t understand, why is our General Staff making excuses again? Did you get a reprimand from the Americans????
  10. +4
    16 February 2024 07: 51
    The cries of “hit Kyiv” began again. Eighty years ago, the British rained megatons of bombs on the cities and towns of Germany. Did this help to raise an anti-Nazi uprising in the “Third Reich”? Did this scare the Wehrmacht soldiers? It’s the other way around, it embittered the Germans, and Nazi propagandist officers at the front simply motivated the soldiers to die with a bang.
    1. +3
      16 February 2024 08: 30
      Hitting Kyiv does not mean hitting civilian targets. Although it would have been more effective to destroy all the trains, I left, prepare for death, at least within 500 km from the front line deep into Ukraine.
    2. +2
      16 February 2024 12: 49
      Quote: Yuras_Belarus
      The cries of “hit Kyiv” began again. Eighty years ago, the British rained megatons of bombs on the cities and towns of Germany. Did this help to raise an anti-Nazi uprising in the “Third Reich”? Did this scare the Wehrmacht soldiers? It’s the other way around, it embittered the Germans, and Nazi propagandist officers at the front simply motivated the soldiers to die with a bang.


      Not at all, they surrendered en masse to the Westerners... and the Versacht soldiers died with motivation in battles against us
  11. +5
    16 February 2024 07: 57
    Quote: Yuras_Belarus
    The cries of “hit Kyiv” began again. Eighty years ago, the British rained megatons of bombs on the cities and towns of Germany. Did this help to raise an anti-Nazi uprising in the “Third Reich”? Did this scare the Wehrmacht soldiers? It’s the other way around, it embittered the Germans, and Nazi propagandist officers at the front simply motivated the soldiers to die with a bang.

    There, even before these megatons, there was the “Battle of Britain” and London with V-1 and V-2)
  12. +4
    16 February 2024 08: 28
    Any weapon needs to be tested in real conditions and it is quite possible that they were tested, which I doubt, but who knows?
  13. 0
    16 February 2024 08: 44
    Lord... May she not fly the entire trajectory at hypersonic speed.
    1. +1
      16 February 2024 12: 51
      Quote: Calm_type
      Lord... May she not fly the entire trajectory at hypersonic speed.


      Why such confidence? And why then are these missiles called hypersonic? After all, in fact, old ballistic missiles reached hypersonic speeds in some sections of the path. Why then is it believed that hypersound was achieved only recently? Is it all just marketing and nothing has changed?
      1. +5
        16 February 2024 13: 30
        Soldiers from Israel and other Ukrainian specialists claim that everything there flies at three speeds, then descends and slows down to supersonic speed, and generally reaches the target at subsonic speed. I wouldn’t be surprised if it also lands like a reusable rocket, tail first.
        1. 0
          16 February 2024 14: 04
          Well, the head of a warrior from Israel!
      2. -1
        16 February 2024 18: 40
        How will you turn on the seeker on hypersound?
  14. KCA
    +2
    16 February 2024 08: 45
    Everything, everything is clear, everything is clear, that nothing is clear, yesterday on Zvezda some expert, colonel, or intelligence general, said that Zircon does not work on the ground, maybe, but it has never been tested, although it was officially announced a year ago that in tests Zircon hit a ground target at a distance of over 1000 km, so who’s lying?
  15. BAI
    -2
    16 February 2024 08: 56
    Answering this question, I would say this: whoever was supposed to saw it saw it. There is such a thing - secrecy. And it is she who determines, through the implementation of certain norms set by documents, who has access to missiles of this nature. Developers, manufacturers, testers, engineering and technical personnel. The rest, sorry, are not allowed.

    Now, this is when it’s about something real.
    And when about a fairy tale like “The Hunter” (see yesterday’s article), everything is there - both appearance and characteristics. But really, why hide it if it won’t be put into service?
    So we can talk about the following sign: If there is hype at the project stage, it is already known that it will not go into series.
    Did you notice how suddenly everything about Poseidon died down? Probably because he was already on duty, somewhere off the Pacific coast of the United States.
    1. -2
      16 February 2024 13: 10
      Quote: BAI
      Answering this question, I would say this: whoever was supposed to saw it saw it. There is such a thing - secrecy. And it is she who determines, through the implementation of certain norms set by documents, who has access to missiles of this nature. Developers, manufacturers, testers, engineering and technical personnel. The rest, sorry, are not allowed.

      Now, this is when it’s about something real.
      And when about a fairy tale like “The Hunter” (see yesterday’s article), everything is there - both appearance and characteristics. But really, why hide it if it won’t be put into service?
      So we can talk about the following sign: If there is hype at the project stage, it is already known that it will not go into series.
      Did you notice how suddenly everything about Poseidon died down? Probably because he was already on duty, somewhere off the Pacific coast of the United States.


      It’s more likely that the matter is different; they show what is for sale, but they don’t show what they will under no circumstances sell to anyone. Poseidon, petrel and zircon are naturally not for sale. And the S-70 is a nice thing, especially since there are at least very big doubts about its effectiveness
      1. 0
        16 February 2024 13: 31
        Quote from: newtc7
        zircon is naturally not for sale

        Have you heard anything about Brahmos-2?
  16. +1
    16 February 2024 09: 09
    They shoot with onyxes... They shoot X22s, which Zircon cannot be verified by land.
  17. +1
    16 February 2024 10: 07
    Communication works well, the command does not sleep, and gives orders quickly. From the moment he starts, he has no more than 2-3 minutes to do everything. Who will give information to telegram operators there?

    What if telegram operators are an independent source of information on the territory of Crimea?
  18. 0
    16 February 2024 10: 17
    Here a whole theory can be developed.
    1 Of course, the Americans tracked the rocket, and this is where these excavations began. Pick up what’s left and what it was. They just don’t dig like that
    2 Ours could well test anything. This is combat use. It may be part of the testing process.
    3 Ukrainians need to excuse their air defense and ask for money, that’s why the version with Zircon. It’s good that they didn’t find a nuclear charge with Shoigu’s passport inside.
    4 The information is supplied by bloggers from Ukraine, they can gossip about the death star and Putin’s personal instructions, after all, he reports to them personally.
  19. +1
    16 February 2024 12: 09
    Regardless of whether it was Zircon or not, I admire people who, even after 2 years, continue to demonstrate confidence in the logic of the Russian Defense Ministry when choosing targets and means of destroying them during strikes using tactical missile weapons at operational-strategic depth. I can offhand offer 3 possible answers to the question “why?”:
    1) The product has not yet been tested, and in the event of massive attacks in dense urban areas and taking into account the bacchanalia that the Ukrainian air defense is causing, any serious discrepancies with the expected performance characteristics - for example, accuracy, speed that does not correspond to the declared ones, or God forbid, even interception by a conditional Patriot , can easily be hidden under the carpet by reporting to the king that the combat use was successful, all targets were hit.
    2) The conditional Shoigu ordered such and such an object to be hit with hypersound, the Daggers were not at hand in the required quantity, and they did not dare to say this at the time of receiving the order. Because Shoigu knows that this simply cannot happen, because the RF Armed Forces are 99.9% equipped with everything necessary. But Zircon was at hand - the order was carried out.
    3) Just because I can. For two years, they fired single Iskanders and Calibers into the concrete boxes of conscientiously built factory buildings, so that later they could demonstrate broken facade windows and partial roof collapses, why not load Zircon somewhere. The main thing is that “all targeted objects are hit,” and Zircon as a means of “hitting an object” is no worse than Iskander, Dagger or X-22.
    1. +3
      16 February 2024 13: 13
      Quote: Mikhail Toropov
      Regardless of whether it was Zircon or not, I admire people who, even after 2 years, continue to demonstrate confidence in the logic of the Russian Defense Ministry when choosing targets and means of destroying them during strikes using tactical missile weapons at operational-strategic depth. I can offhand offer 3 possible answers to the question “why?”:
      1) The product has not yet been tested, and in the event of massive attacks in dense urban areas and taking into account the bacchanalia that the Ukrainian air defense is causing, any serious discrepancies with the expected performance characteristics - for example, accuracy, speed that does not correspond to the declared ones, or God forbid, even interception by a conditional Patriot , can easily be hidden under the carpet by reporting to the king that the combat use was successful, all targets were hit.
      2) The conditional Shoigu ordered such and such an object to be hit with hypersound, the Daggers were not at hand in the required quantity, and they did not dare to say this at the time of receiving the order. Because Shoigu knows that this simply cannot happen, because the RF Armed Forces are 99.9% equipped with everything necessary. But Zircon was at hand - the order was carried out.
      3) Just because I can. For two years, they fired single Iskanders and Calibers into the concrete boxes of conscientiously built factory buildings, so that later they could demonstrate broken facade windows and partial roof collapses, why not load Zircon somewhere. The main thing is that “all targeted objects are hit,” and Zircon as a means of “hitting an object” is no worse than Iskander, Dagger or X-22.


      Truly. It’s as if you’ve just been fired from the General Staff, you’re cutting their logic short.
      I can add a couple more reasons:
      1. The facility belonged to a company that was a competitor of Medvedchuk
      2. It was not possible to agree on royalties from the supply of products from this project to the EU
      3. Turkish partners refused to allow ships with grain to pass through, and therefore their facility was destroyed in a particularly harsh way - zircon. To intimidate))

      This is the world today...)
      1. -1
        16 February 2024 13: 40
        But the object is a power line, and there were hardly a bucket’s worth of pieces from the huge zircon
  20. +1
    16 February 2024 12: 43
    “And they say that it was a completely ordinary supersonic missile, like the Onyx or Caliber, which are 2-5 times slower than the Zircon.”

    Author, Caliber - subsonic. It's time to read that same Wikipedia...
    1. +3
      16 February 2024 17: 35
      Not certainly in that way. There are several varieties of calibers, and one behaves non-standard
      1. -1
        16 February 2024 18: 03
        This is a purely anti-ship two-stage version that doesn't fly too far
        1. +1
          16 February 2024 20: 20
          This is true. But still, under the name "Caliber" not everything is so simple
          1. 0
            16 February 2024 20: 31
            With that rocket, everything is ambiguous. The funnel from it is smaller than from point-y. No one's windows in the vicinity were broken by the supersonic sound. The parts were collected from a bucket, from a rocket weighing several tons and 10 meters long. I would ask here - is this definitely not some kind of jet geranium or something like the X-59? I’ve never seen before that some bolt from some rocket had its code stamped on it. It will most likely be on TPK, but the parts have their own codes
            1. 0
              16 February 2024 20: 54
              Yes, there’s actually a pit there after excavations, where the cable was torn by an excavator laughing
            2. 0
              16 February 2024 21: 00
              There are not all the photos here, in the news in the cart there was a general plan, and it did not show the entire funnel. Although it still looks like an explosion crater, more likely
              1. -1
                16 February 2024 23: 43
                That’s what we’re talking about, that even a training zircon would not have left this crater. Its length is commensurate with the diameter of the funnel. There was a video of how a damaged cruise missile fell on a high-rise building under construction in Kyiv, where one kerosene was enough to smoke 100 square meters. And here the road signs are intact, the power lines are not cut, the cables are visible, but the missiles are not. Here is a rocket from a tornado - 9M530 - 70 kilos of explosives, 240 kilos of the entire warhead, throws out 160 cubic meters of soil. And here there are not even 16 cubic meters. And from point-y there remains a crater in which the average village house would fit
      2. 0
        18 February 2024 01: 15
        Quote: vladmcs
        Not certainly in that way. There are several varieties of calibers, and one behaves non-standard


        Yes, thanks for the clarification. As far as I remember, this anti-ship aircraft becomes supersonic at the end, but it seems like it flies for the main part of its trajectory to the speed of sound. Well, taking into account the fact that the author spoke about the total approach time, most of the trajectory is still more important than the speed at the target.
  21. 0
    16 February 2024 16: 05
    Ours withdrew from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, but tried not to formally violate it. The use of Zircon from Bastion PU is a violation
  22. 0
    16 February 2024 17: 23
    Zircon, not Zircon - that's it....
    here is the arrival in Lviv on March 26, 2022


    After the storyboard, the arrival speed is about 2.5 - 2.7 km/s, i.e. approximately 7.3M
    Try to determine it from the video, maybe it will be more accurate.
    It’s quite difficult to determine accurately, you have to take into account the speed of spread of the fireball during the explosion, the frame rate is not enough
    As you can see, the missile did not arrive along a ballistic trajectory, it flew almost above the ground, i.e. The dagger and Iskander are swept away.
    Onyx was shot that day, there were messages. It turns out that Onyx accelerates to such a breakneck speed in front of the target? Unclear...
  23. 0
    16 February 2024 18: 10
    Too expensive. The injection with a target like “Caliber” has already ended. And now they supposedly have to use ultra-modern and super-expensive missiles. Apparently they forgot what “Dagger” did with the nuclear shelter at the beginning of the SVO and the effect of its use. Psychological warfare, sir.
  24. 0
    16 February 2024 21: 18
    Why even hit Russian Kyiv if the main culprit is Washington???
  25. 0
    17 February 2024 00: 38
    Roman, you are brave. Everything was written as it was. As a German, I was very surprised at how unprofessionally the media approached this topic. Nothing to add. After a supersonic missile enters some building, there will be nothing left. Especially from a rocket.
  26. -1
    17 February 2024 10: 32
    Why hit Kyiv with Zircon?

    In Kyiv, it is necessary to hit FAB9000 and tactical nuclear weapons, but no one will do this because the authorities and the Ukrainian people have their own people there (not in the Belgorod and Kursk regions, but in Ukraine), therefore it is impossible to hit their own people ...
    1. -1
      18 February 2024 16: 21
      What's the point of hitting Kyiv if the source of the problems is Washington? Why are you playing along with the USA? Out of stupidity? Or deliberately?
      1. -1
        16 March 2024 14: 38
        What's the point of hitting Kyiv if the source of the problems is Washington? Why are you playing along with the USA? Out of stupidity? Or deliberately?

        Because if you hit Washington, the country will go crazy, for 30 years your government in the Russian Federation has taken care of this...
        If you don’t strike Kiev, it will all end with the deployment of NATO troops first to Ukraine, then to the Russian Federation
        1. 0
          19 March 2024 17: 33
          “For us it’s a matter of LIFE AND DEATH, but for them it’s a matter of tactical position.”

          "We're in Paradise, and they'll just die"

          (c) Putin V.V.
  27. 0
    17 February 2024 13: 21
    I also don’t see the point in using Zircon alone in this(!) situation! I'm sure this is bullshit!
  28. 0
    18 February 2024 17: 14
    "...a very problematic weapon for the receiving side."))) It would be more likely that this "receiving side would choke on our food! Everything is difficult there, but victory will be ours! We won’t be able to throw our hats in the air, because the material and technical equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is still remains very plentiful. It remains to continue to hit the factories in Kharkov, Nikolaev and Odessa.
  29. 0
    19 February 2024 02: 42
    It’s very strange: after all, the Kiev Institute of Forensic Expertise, subordinate to the Ministry of Justice of Ukraine, is not a research institute of the Ministry of Defense. As far as I know from third-party sources, 5-6 years ago almost half of the forensic experts there simply fled in different directions and away from Kyiv. Experts are generally very smart guys when it comes to sensing danger. So who stayed to work, in ballistics and traceology? Wow, what experience is needed there, high qualifications are needed, and not the enthusiasm of the young Kyiv Hitler Youth, with three months of retraining. And most importantly, ballistic examination is actually a comparative study; samples are needed for identification. Or material samples, or reference material. What could the Kyiv cheerful and resourceful experts compare the remains of rockets with in order to give a categorically positive conclusion that it is Zircon..? If only these Kyivians could lie more convincingly, are they also from Zelinsky’s KVN team at the leadership of the research institutes there?
  30. 0
    19 February 2024 04: 49
    Zircon looks almost the same as Onyx. And it starts up according to the same scheme. A non-specialist may not even see or understand the difference. And yes, the coasters have shrunk (not the first time, by the way) and specifically with Onyx.
  31. 0
    23 February 2024 11: 20
    And where the author-->author-->the author proposes to work out the rocket system to the end. He's apparently not a production worker.
  32. +1
    23 February 2024 16: 22
    Skomorokhov in his own style. Only he can write such nonsense. Roman, try asking the neural network to write an article. It will turn out better
  33. +1
    7 March 2024 14: 46
    Russian hypersonic missiles are so tough that the bolts in them are pinned together with wire...
  34. 0
    7 March 2024 14: 48
    Quote from Andy_nsk
    Somehow there is a poor correlation between the high-tech production of ultra-modern missiles and this method of marking

    Does that mean the wire is correlated?
  35. 0
    30 March 2024 18: 12
    And it’s so important what kind of missile was fired in order to write and talk so much? lol