Ukrainian and Chinese air defense systems based on air combat missiles with a semi-active radar guidance system

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Ukrainian and Chinese air defense systems based on air combat missiles with a semi-active radar guidance system

Most common types aviation missiles with a semi-active radar guidance system today are the AIM-7 Sparrow missile, as well as their Italian and Chinese clones.

In a publication dedicated to Ukrainian mobile air defense systems FrankenSAM, which used the AIM-7 Sparrow and RIM-7 Sea Sparrow missiles, the positive and negative qualities of such air defense systems, as well as the prospects for their use, were examined in detail. However, in addition to the numerous Sparrow family of missiles, there are other semi-active radar-guided air-to-air missiles in the world, on the basis of which attempts have also been made to create land-based air defense systems.



Before moving on to the story, for a better understanding, let’s take a closer look at the method of using aircraft-based air combat guided missiles with a semi-active radar homing head (PARL homing head), which differ in firing range, weight and dimensions, but have a common operating principle.

On medium-range missiles (for example, on the Soviet R-27R or the American AIM-7 Sparrow), PARL seekers are used in combination with INS and radio correction. After detecting a target using a radar and launching such a missile, the need remains to illuminate the target with the interceptor's radar until the missile hits it. This guidance method makes it possible to increase the firing range many times over compared to missiles equipped with an infrared seeker. At the same time, after launching a rocket with a PARL seeker, the carrier aircraft is severely constrained in maneuver.

During the Cold War, the United States evolved the Sparrow family of missiles, all modifications of which have the same attachment points, similar geometric dimensions and weight, which allows them to be suspended on the same carrier aircraft.

Another American missile with a PARL seeker was the AIM-4 Falcon. However, the Falcon missile launcher was significantly inferior in characteristics to the Sparrow and was used very limitedly.

Also in the United States, from 1965 to 1967, more than 800 AIM-9C Sidewinder missiles were produced, which were also aimed at a high-frequency signal reflected from the target. However, due to the short firing range, the Sidewinder radar version did not have any advantages over modifications with an IR seeker, and therefore did not become widespread and was not used for long. In the 1970s, most of the AIM-9S missiles were equipped with an IR seeker.

While the Americans tried to unify their air combat missiles for various carriers, the USSR, on the contrary, often created its own radar-guided missile for each new interceptor. This was largely due to the fact that the radars of domestic fighters and the seekers of Soviet missiles were inferior to their American counterparts in terms of illumination potential and receiver sensitivity.

Thus, the Tu-128 loitering interceptor carried four very large missiles R-4R (with PARL seeker) and R-4T (with IR seeker) more than 5,5 m long and weighing more than 500 kg. With such weight and dimensions, the firing range did not exceed 25 km.

The Su-8, Yak-98P and Su-11 interceptors were armed with R-28 and R-15 missiles. The latest version of the R-98M1, put into service in 1975, had a length of 4,4 m, a launch weight of 227 kg and a launch range of up to 21 km.

For the MiG-25P interceptor, the R-40R (with PARL seeker) and R-40T (with IR seeker) missiles were created. The R-40R missile weighed 455 kg, had a length of more than 6,7 m and a firing range of up to 30 km.

To provide the ability for front-line MiG-21 and MiG-23 fighters to attack visually unobservable targets detected by radar, the R-3M missile launcher was mass-produced. However, the capabilities of this rocket were very modest. With a mass of 84 kg and a length of 3,12 m, it was possible to hit an air target at a distance of up to 8 km.

Simultaneously with the testing of the MiG-23 fighter, the R-23R (with PARL seeker) and R-23T (with IR seeker) missiles were developed specifically for it. When creating the R-23R missile launcher, its weight was reduced to 222 kg, and its characteristics were brought closer to the American AIM-7E Sparrow.

In the early 1980s, the improved R-23R missile with a launch weight of 23 kg and a length of 24 m was introduced into the armament of the MiG-245ML and MiG-4,5P. The firing range of the R-24R in the front hemisphere reached 50 km.

For the MiG-29 and Su-27 fighters, production of the R-1984R and R-27T missile launchers began in 27. The R-27R missile with a semi-active seeker is capable of locking onto a target with an EPR of 3 m² at a distance of 22 km. Launch range – up to 60 km. Weight more than 253 kg. The weight of the warhead is 39 kg. Length – 4,8 m.

The adoption of the R-27 family of missile launchers made it possible to eliminate the gap with the United States in medium-range air-to-air missiles and to more fully unleash the potential of Soviet 4th generation fighters. The Soviet R-27R missile significantly surpassed the American AIM-7F missile in its main parameters. The modular principle inherent in the design of the R-27 made it possible to create modifications of missiles equipped with various seekers, with increased energy capabilities and an increased firing range.


R-27 missiles with different guidance systems have unified components: control and power supply units, load-bearing surfaces and rudders, as well as warheads. Each of the modifications can be equipped with standardized engines of conventional (R-27R and R-27T) and high-energy (R-27ER and R-27ET) engines and guidance systems based on infrared seeker, as well as semi-active and passive radar seeker.

The R-27ER missile, when attacking a target on a collision course, has a firing range of 80 km. Its launch weight is 350 kg, length – 4 mm. The diameter of the engine compartment has been increased from 775 to 230 mm.

R-27P missiles with a passive radar homing head are designed against enemy aircraft with operating radars that cause active jamming. The oncoming acquisition range of the AN/APG-63(V) emitting radar of the F-15C fighter exceeds 180 km. The firing range for the R-27P1 modification is 110 km.

Chinese air defense systems HQ-61, HQ-64, HQ-6D and HQ-6A


In the late 1970s, the PLA Air Force had at its disposal a single type of close-in missile, the PL-2. This missile, put into service in 1967, was a clone of the Soviet R-3S (K-13), which in turn was copied from the American AIM-9B Sidewinder missile.

In 1982, the PL-5 air-to-air missile entered service, which was an improved version of the PL-2. But this rocket did not have a significant advantage over the previous model, and its production lasted only 5 years.

After the J-8 interceptor was put into service, the question arose about equipping it with missiles capable of destroying unobservable aerial targets in the dark and in difficult weather conditions. The existing missile launchers with the PL-2 and PL-5 TGS ​​did not provide this, and attempts to pirate the American AIM-7E Sparrow medium-range missiles were unsuccessful. China received the first samples of the AIM-7 missile in the early 1970s from Vietnam. However, due to the weakness of the Chinese electronics industry and the inability to recreate the solid fuel recipe, it was not possible to reproduce this American rocket.

After Deputy Premier of the State Council of the People's Republic of China Deng Xiaoping visited the United States in January 1979, where he met with President Jimmy Carter, allied relations were established between Beijing and Washington. The main reason for the rapprochement between China and the United States was a common hostile attitude towards the USSR.

In the new round of the arms race, promoted in the early 1980s, China was in dire need of a modern weapons, necessary for the radical modernization of the PLA, and Western countries provided their own samples within the framework of military-technical cooperation.

First of all, Chinese specialists were interested in modern radar technology, communications and automated combat control systems, aircraft engines, anti-tank systems, guided anti-ship missiles and air combat missiles.

To compensate for the lag in the field of aviation weapons, in the late 1980s China established licensed production of close-in missiles: the French R.550 Magic and the Israeli Python-3.

The Chinese J-8II interceptors were armed with the PL-11 missile, created on the basis of the Italian Aspide Mk.1 missile launcher with a STEAM seeker. The first batch of PL-11 missiles were assembled from Italian components.


Chinese medium-range missile defense PL-11

With a launch weight of 230 kg, the length of the rocket was 3 mm, the diameter was 690 mm. The PL-210 medium-range missile is equipped with a fragmentation warhead weighing 11 kg. Firing range – up to 33 km.

After the events in Tiananmen Square in June 1989, defense cooperation between the West and the PRC ceased. Up to this point, China has managed to obtain enough parts to assemble just over 100 PL-11 missiles. In the early 1990s, the PL-11 missile launcher was introduced into the armament of the J-8II combat interceptor fighters.

In the second half of the 1990s, China managed to establish independent production of PL-11A missiles with inertial guidance in the initial and mid-flight phases and radar illumination only in the final phase, which made it possible to use them as part of land and sea air defense systems.

In the late 1980s, about 80 HQ-2 medium-range air defense systems (the Chinese version of the Soviet S-75) with HQ-2 liquid-propelled anti-aircraft missiles, which could fight enemy air at medium and high altitudes, were deployed on the territory of the People's Republic of China. Covering Chinese troops and facilities from low-altitude air strikes was then entrusted mainly to 12,7–14,5 mm anti-aircraft machine guns and 37–57 mm artillery machine guns, as well as partly to the HN-5 MANPADS (a Chinese pirated copy of the Strela- 2M").

All these air defense systems were ineffective against Soviet front-line Su-24 bombers, capable of making long-term attacks at low altitude. Of particular concern to the Chinese leadership was the fact that Beijing was within reach of the Su-24, which, in the event of a deterioration in Sino-Soviet relations, could be based at airfields in Mongolia.

Unlike the USSR, the PRC did not have facility-based or military air defense systems with solid-fuel missiles, such as the S-125 and Kub. Due to the urgent need of the PLA for a low-altitude facility complex, in the early 1990s the HQ-61 air defense system was created in China, for which they adapted missile defense systems based on the Italian medium-range aviation missile Aspide Mk. 1.


When designing the HQ-61, Chinese specialists from the Shanghai Institute of Science and Technology largely repeated the path previously taken when creating the Italian Spada air defense system. But the characteristics of the Chinese complex turned out to be more modest: the firing range is up to 10 km, the interception altitude is from 25 to 8 m.

To detect air targets, the division was provided with a Type 571 all-round radar; target tracking and missile guidance were carried out by a very simple station with a parabolic antenna and a television-optical sight. The anti-aircraft division included: five SPUs, a detection radar, a guidance station and vans with diesel power generators.


Self-propelled SAM launchers HQ-61

The mobile launcher, made on the basis of a three-axle off-road truck, contained two ready-to-use missiles.


In addition to the land complex with launchers on the chassis of a three-axle 5-ton truck, a ship version of the HQ-61B air defense system was also created.


Two Type 61K frigates were armed with HQ-053B complexes. Each ship had two twin beam-type launchers and two anti-aircraft missile guidance stations. These ships were taken out of service in the 1990s.

Currently, one Type 053K frigate with missile launcher mock-ups is on display at the Qingdao Naval Museum.


As of today, all land and sea HQ-61 air defense systems have been removed from service. During trial operation, complexes of this type demonstrated low reliability. A primitive guidance station accompanied only by a television-optical sighting device did not provide operation in the dark and in poor visibility conditions. For missiles of this size and mass, the firing range is considered short.

The experience of using the low-volume HQ-61 air defense system made it possible to identify its shortcomings, accumulate experience and develop requirements for a new generation complex. This became possible after, in the second half of the 1990s, the Chinese industry managed to master the independent production of a clone of the Italian Aspid, and the LY-60 missile defense system was created for launching from a land launch vehicle.


Chinese military personnel with a LY-60 missile

The characteristics of the LY-60 compared to the missiles used as part of the HQ-61 air defense system have been improved. Despite the fact that the LY-60 missile has become 10 kg lighter (launch weight 220 kg), the inclined firing range reaches 15 km. The maximum rocket speed is up to 1 m/s.

Currently, LY-60 missiles are used as part of low-altitude mobile air defense systems HQ-64, HQ-6D and HQ-6A.


SPU SAM HQ-64 and mockup SAM LY-60

The HQ-64 (HQ-6) mobile anti-aircraft missile system was put into service in 2001. At the SPU, the missiles are placed in closed transport and launch containers, and the number of missiles ready for use has been increased from two to four.

Thanks to the introduction of SNR with combined target tracking (radar channel + optoelectronic system), it became possible to fire in conditions of poor visual visibility.


HQ-64 anti-aircraft missile guidance station

Approximately in 2010, deliveries of improved HQ-6D air defense systems with missiles began, the flight speed of which was increased to 1 m/s and the range to 350 km.


Chinese sources claim that this modification can be integrated into the control system of the HQ-9B long-range air defense system. Thanks to the introduction of new microprocessors, the speed of information processing and the number of target channels have been increased.

Part of the HQ-6D air defense system has been brought to the level of HQ-6A (artillery). At the same time, a 30-mm seven-barrel anti-aircraft artillery mount Toure 730 with a radar-optical guidance system, created on the basis of the Dutch anti-aircraft artillery complex Goalkeeper, was installed on the same platform with the equipment of the missile guidance station, after which the anti-aircraft missile system became a missile and artillery system.


HQ-6A air defense system guidance station with 30-mm Tour 730 anti-aircraft artillery mount

The introduction of a rapid-firing anti-aircraft artillery mount into the air defense system increases the ability to destroy low-altitude air targets and its survivability. According to reference data, at least 20 HQ-6D/6A air defense systems are on combat duty as part of the Chinese air defense system.

Ukrainian air defense system "Dnepr"


For a long period of time, the Ukrainian senior military-political leadership did not pay due attention to the development of anti-aircraft missile forces, relying on arsenals inherited from the USSR. After the division of the Soviet inheritance, independent Ukraine received huge reserves of equipment and weapons, which for some time seemed inexhaustible.

But soon the number of on-site air defense systems deployed on Ukrainian territory decreased many times over. At the end of the 1990s, all medium-range S-75 systems were decommissioned, most of the low-altitude S-125s were disposed of, and the most recent S-125M1s were put into reserve. It is known that several overhauled S-125M1 complexes sailed to countries with hot climates. In 2016, the last division of the long-range S-200VM was removed from combat duty. Due to the shortage of operational medium- and long-range air defense systems, the Buk-M1 and S-300V1 military air defense systems were transferred to the air defense missile forces carrying out object-based air defense.

In the 300st century, the basis of the ground segment of Ukrainian air defense was the S-1PT/PS and Buk-M1980 air defense systems, built in the 25s. The service life of these complexes was determined to be 300 years, and the latest S-1PS and Buk-M1990 available in Ukraine were produced in 15. For approximately the first 2010 years after Kiev received “independence,” the maintenance of the newest complexes in operational condition was mainly due to the “cannibalism” of the anti-aircraft systems in storage. However, there were not enough used parts and components, and by 15, 20–XNUMX divisions could be on combat duty.

The Ukroboromprom enterprise tried to implement a program to extend the life cycle of Soviet-made air defense systems, and in this direction it was possible to achieve some success. But it was quite obvious to specialists that in the absence of production capacity in Ukraine to produce missiles for the S-300PS and Buk-M1, it would not be possible to maintain these systems in working condition for a long time.

In 2015, the Ukrainian government issued a decree on the start of work on the Dnepr medium-range anti-aircraft missile system, which envisaged the use of anti-aircraft missiles created on the basis of the R-27 aircraft guided missiles. In parallel with the start of work on the Dnepr air defense system, Ukraine proposed that Poland create a joint R-27ADS (Air Defense System) air defense system and bear part of the costs.


Estimated appearance of the R-27ADS air defense system launcher

For the new Ukrainian air defense system, the Zaporozhye enterprise Research and Production Complex "Iskra" (NPK "Iskra") began creating a multifunctional radar station with phased array, capable of searching and illuminating targets for missile guidance.


According to advertising data, the radar on the KrAZ-6322 chassis is capable of detecting a fighter flying at an altitude of 7 km at a distance of at least 150 km. The range of stable tracking is 120 km. At a flight altitude of 150 m, the detection range is at least 50 km.

For better information awareness, the anti-aircraft missile division was to be equipped with an 80K6M radar, all elements of which were placed on a single wheeled chassis.


80K6M radar

The 80K6M radar is capable of seeing large high-altitude targets at a distance of up to 400 km. The detection range of a fighter-type target at a flight altitude of 100 m is 40 km, 1 m is 000 km, 110 km is 10 km.

The combat work of the Dnepr complex was supposed to be controlled from a mobile control center based on the KrAZ-6322, which provided automated combat crew workstations, means for processing and documenting information, communication equipment, as well as two diesel power supply units (main and backup).

The choice of the R-27 missile for the Ukrainian air defense system was due to the fact that in Soviet times the main manufacturer of the R-27 missile was the Kiev plant named after. Artyom.


Ukrainian-made R-27 missiles

After the collapse of the USSR, the Ukrainian State Joint Stock Holding Company "Artem" (GAKhK "Artem"), in addition to other defense products, continued the production and overhaul of the R-27 missile launcher.


In addition to Russia, the products of the Artyom State Chemical Company were supplied to Algeria, Azerbaijan, India, China, Malaysia and Poland. In total, under contracts concluded with foreign customers, Ukraine built and overhauled about 1 medium-range missiles.

Initially, the R-27R missile as part of the Dnepr air defense system was planned to be used with minimal changes from a launcher on the chassis of a KrAZ-5233 all-wheel drive truck.


However, in this case, even with missiles with increased energy capabilities, the firing range would not exceed 25–30 km. In addition, missile launchers with butterfly rudders are very difficult to launch from sealed transport and launch containers. When the missiles were positioned openly on the SPU, they were quite vulnerable to external influences, and reloading took longer compared to the missiles in the TPK.

In this regard, it was decided to create a new anti-aircraft missile with a detachable upper stage, schematically similar to the T392 missile defense system of the Ukrainian-Belarusian military complex T38 “Stilet”, which was not put into mass production, which was supposed to replace the Soviet military air defense system “Osa-AKM”.


Estimated appearance of the new missile defense system with a detachable upper stage

The creation of a new missile was entrusted to the Kiev design bureau "Luch", which since Soviet times has been developing control and guidance systems for high-precision weapons.

In parallel with this, a more traditional version of the missile defense system was considered, which borrowed some parts of the R-27 aviation missile launcher. This anti-aircraft missile has a tail more suitable for launching from a TPK.


There is no clarity on the missile guidance methods used as part of the projected Ukrainian Dnepr air defense system. The easiest to implement is semi-active radar guidance, which makes it possible to create a relatively cheap missile with a modified seeker from the R-27R. However, this limits the number of simultaneously fired targets and, to some extent, the firing range.

According to data published in open sources, the Dnepr air defense system was supposed to have a destruction zone of at least 60 km, an altitude reach of up to 25 km and simultaneous firing of six targets, with two missiles aimed at each.

To ensure the required characteristics, a new active millimeter-wave radar seeker with homing at the final section of the trajectory was created. At the initial and middle sections of the trajectory, command telecontrol is used. Inertial control is also possible at the first stage, with the inclusion of homing in the immediate vicinity of the target. The second method increases the secrecy of use and allows you to implement the “fire and forget” principle. But at the same time, when the target’s course changes, the probability of a miss increases.

The anti-aircraft missiles were supposed to be launched from inclined towed launchers on four TPKs.


According to the views of the developers, the new air defense system, at a relatively moderate cost in terms of firing range, was supposed to occupy an intermediate position between the S-300PS and the Buk-M1, be able to simultaneously hit several targets and ensure long-term combat duty for at least 25 years.

However, despite ambitious plans, Ukraine failed to complete the work, and to date not a single Dnepr air defense system has been built.

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  1. +3
    13 February 2024 06: 08
    hi
    As always, an interesting article!
    It seems that Iran and the Houthis have also “finished” air-to-air missiles for air defense purposes.
    The video cannot be found; it has been deleted on YouTube. Follow the link for photos.
    https://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/904057.html
    “In the capital of Yemen, Sanaa, there was a display of some air defense systems used by the forces of the government of the Shiite Ansar Allah movement (Houthis) against the Saudi coalition aviation. Absolutely new products were not shown there, everything was limited to the display of airborne missiles R-27T, R-73 and R -77 used in the long-known improvised anti-aircraft missile systems created by the Houthis, as well as 3M9 missiles of the Kvadrat air defense system, which the Houthis allegedly modernized with Iranian help. Only the display of R-77 missiles can be called a relative novelty, previously only the use of air-launched airborne missiles was known R-27T and R-73 for air defense. At the same time, they did not show the most interesting thing - launchers and detection and control systems."

    https://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/1148051.html
    "... anti-aircraft missile "358". The original Iranian name of this missile is still unknown, although it has already been officially shown in Iran and was used by the Yemeni Houthis under the name Saqr-1 against UAVs of the Saudi coalition in recent years."
    1. +2
      13 February 2024 06: 19
      Absolutely new products were never shown there; everything was limited to showing the R-27T, R-73 and R-77 URVVs
      In general, among the missiles intended for use against enemy aircraft in the Russian Aerospace Forces, there is nothing newer than the R-77. Where did the Houthis get them from?

      Previously, it was only known about the use of R-27T and R-73 URVVs..

      . These are missiles with thermal heads, launched from primitive machines equipped with simple sights. What's the point of them?
      1. +3
        13 February 2024 07: 04
        ...in the Russian Aerospace Forces there is nothing newer than the R-77. Where did the Houthis get them from?

        Yu. Lyamin believes that Yemen has P77.
        "alamoana
        alamoana
        February 24, 2020, 03:43:54 UTC
        So I was surprised where they got the R-77. It seems they were not exported to anyone except India. In my opinion, not even China
        REPLY
        LIKE
        imp_navigator
        imp_navigator
        24 February 2020, 07:08:30 UTC SELECTCOLLAPSE
        ComplainTrackEmbed
        Some sources like SIPRI have long written that Yemen bought the R-77 along with other new aircraft missiles in the 2000s. when they bought the MiG-29SMT and modernized the old MiG-29s.
        In general, the R-77 is not that rare. In addition to India, China, Malaysia, Syria, and apparently some other countries have them.
        Here they are in China. There they are used on the Su-30 and J-11A"
        " https://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/904057.html

        These are missiles with thermal heads, launched from primitive machines equipped with simple sights. What's the point of them?

        Much or little sense, but there is:

        https://youtu.be/OR5rtB7MuwU
        There is a photo of a launcher (like a tripod) hanging around somewhere, but I don’t have time to look for it yet.
        1. +3
          13 February 2024 07: 15
          Quote: Wildcat
          Lyamin believes that Yemen has P77.

          Lyamin certainly has a certain authority, but why adapt a missile with an active radar head, which costs about $1 million, for launch from the simplest homemade installation, which is in short supply even in our country, and how to ensure capture? I do not believe...

          Quote: Wildcat
          Much or little sense, but there is:

          With all due respect, but what does it mean that this is an R-27? In addition, such a video can be made even at home.
          1. +2
            13 February 2024 09: 25
            ...but why adapt a missile with an active radar head, which costs about $1 million, for launch from the simplest makeshift installation, and how to ensure capture? I do not believe...
            For what? IMHO, for air defense purposes, of course. What to do if there are no other options?

            With all due respect, but what does it mean that this is an R-27? In addition, such a video can be made even at home.

            The fact of the drone’s defeat is admitted, IMHO, according to statements this was “FrankenPVO at minimum wages.” No other air defense was recorded.
            Again, IMHO, for drone-type purposes this is enough.
            And, of course, we still have to wait for exact confirmation.
            1. +1
              13 February 2024 09: 34
              Quote: Wildcat
              For what? IMHO, for air defense purposes, of course. What to do if there are no other options?

              How? Can you describe the mechanism for using this extremely expensive missile from a ground installation?
              What radar is used, how is the active head interfaced with ground equipment? Even a heat-seeking missile cannot be launched so easily, especially with active radar.
              1. +5
                13 February 2024 12: 42
                Quote: Tucan
                How? Can you describe the mechanism for using this extremely expensive missile from a ground installation?

                The R-77 missile launcher can theoretically be launched with target acquisition by the ARL seeker from the ground. But for this, a fairly complex fire control system must be created.

                The next publication, currently under moderation, will be devoted to air defense systems that use aircraft guided missiles with ARL seeker. It is not easy to create a truly effective complex; at least in the Russian Federation, work on adapting the R-77 into an air defense system has not progressed far.
                1. -2
                  16 March 2024 22: 19
                  Quote: Bongo
                  It is not easy to create a truly effective complex; at least in the Russian Federation, work on adapting the R-77 into an air defense system has not progressed far.

                  Why do we need this??
                  For this we have simply magnificent “Pantsir-S1” and “Pantsir-SM”, the missile defense systems of which are an order of magnitude cheaper and cheaper than the R-77 with AGSN. Because the Pantsir missile defense system has a radio command guidance system, and does not “fire with radar”. Receiver, servos on the steering wheels and a radio range finder for remote detonation. All . It couldn't be cheaper and in the same dimensions.
                  RVV SD missiles are very expensive, especially R-77 with AGSN, they are better used for their intended purpose. And a more effective air defense system than the “Pantsir”, especially in terms of price-quality ratio, cannot be found in the world today. And "Pantsir-SM" with its destruction range of up to 40 km. (against a large low-maneuverable target, with a range of 32 km against a fighter) is capable of replacing even the Buk-M2 in combat formations. And this is with very inexpensive missiles and much more ammunition per installation.
                  And the ersatz RVV as a missile defense system is for countries that have a surplus of RVV left, but no longer have aviation. Or old RVVs are simply usefully used for launching from the ground. . We don’t need such a circus, because it definitely won’t work out better and more reliable than “Pantsir”, but it will be expensive and of lower quality. But we can sell some old RVVs from warehouses to those in need and help adapt them for air defense systems.
                  1. +2
                    17 March 2024 03: 41
                    It's strange to read something like this from you. request You either have absolutely no idea what we are talking about, or you are deliberately ignoring the facts.
                    All air defense systems of the Pantsir family are short-range complexes and radio command guidance requires constant target tracking, which imposes a number of restrictions. And on the basis of the R-77, it is possible to create a medium-range air defense system capable of operating in the “fire and forget” mode, as was done in the NASAMS air defense system, which uses AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles.
                    1. -2
                      17 March 2024 16: 13
                      Quote: Bongo
                      You either absolutely do not understand what we are talking about, or the facts are deliberately ignored.

                      On the contrary, I focus on the most key facts. In war, it is not enough to have weapons; you also need to have constantly replenished ammunition. In the case of an air defense missile system, this is a missile defense system, as well as complexity, labor intensity, resource intensity, production cycle time, and most importantly, PRICE. Because mass production in a war that is complex, expensive and with a long production cycle is either impossible in principle, or will not bring any benefit and will not affect the outcome of the war.
                      Our air defense is now forced to fight (defending cities) with a huge number of UAVs, cruise missiles, OTRK and missiles of various MLRS. Right down to the Grad missiles and their Czech analogue, the Vampire. Therefore, not just a lot of missiles are needed, but a LOT. And mainly in the short-range missile defense segment. Because their consumption is the greatest.
                      "Pantsir-S1" has three radar channels and one optical-location channel. That is, at maximum, the air defense system can fire at 4 targets simultaneously. And since the ranges are short, after hitting the next target the channels will be cleared very quickly. With an ammo capacity of 12 missiles on one combat vehicle, this is more than enough. And now there is no need to guess about its effectiveness. Cases of destruction of 12 missiles by 12 enemy MLRS missiles are not uncommon here (in the Donbass), but have long been commonplace. What air defense system can boast of SUCH statistics?
                      Cheap, radio command, but at the same time two-stage and VERY effective missile defense system. And now there’s also a military air defense system on the T-80 “Pantsir-SM” chassis. Yes, golden monuments should be erected to Gryazev and Shipunov for creating this miracle.

                      Quote: Bongo
                      on the basis of the R-77 it is possible to create a medium-range air defense system,

                      We have enough medium-range air defense systems (Buk-M3, Buk-M2, S-350 and even Pantsir-SM, which has a threshold range of 40 km), why else create entities? For unification? So it seems to me that the AGSN in the R-77M and the S-350 air defense missile system and the naval Reduta are already unified. In any case, it would be justified.
                      Today we need to completely re-equip the Aerospace Forces with the R-77M, create sufficient reserves and compensate for the consumption of these RVV SD in the current conflict. I am not sure that our industry has already completed this task. And I repeat - this is a very expensive rocket.


                      Quote: Bongo
                      on the basis of the R-77, it is possible to create a medium-range air defense system capable of operating in the “fire and forget” mode, as is done in the NASAMS air defense system, which uses AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles.

                      We have already implemented this in the S-350 air defense system.
                      But in the west there simply was no normal medium-range air defense system, and they went for such unification. You can be happy for them - their missile defense systems are 5-10 or more times more expensive than ours. But we don’t need this - we already have everything we need for air defense. There is no need to complicate things.
              2. +1
                13 February 2024 16: 07
                How? Can you describe the mechanism for using this extremely expensive missile from a ground installation?
                What radar is used, how is the active head interfaced with ground equipment? Even a heat-seeking missile cannot be launched so easily, especially with active radar.

                I understand how this is done theoretically - for example, NASAMS does this. But I cannot write how they do it in Yemen, because I am not involved in the development of Iranian/Houthi air defense.
            2. +2
              13 February 2024 09: 36
              Quote: Wildcat
              The fact that the drone was destroyed is admitted

              To me, it looks more like the launch of the Wasp. If it were so easy to put together an air defense system on your knee, everyone would be doing it.
              1. +1
                13 February 2024 16: 12
                To me, it looks more like the launch of the Wasp. If it were so easy to put together an air defense system on your knee, everyone would be doing it.

                Those who have money buy normal weapons, even used ones. The Houthis only have what they "bought" or received from Iran. Most likely it's "358", IMHO
            3. +4
              13 February 2024 12: 36
              I am inclined to believe that the Houthis have adapted the R-73 missiles for use in ground-based air defense; even the R-27T in an air defense system is unlikely. In many ways, this is propaganda; the Houthis are like a barn cat meeting a dog. The fur is on end, the back is arched and the tail is fluffed out. They want to look scarier than they really are.
              As for the R-73, there is a photo of a primitive SPU with a ring sight created in Yemen on the Internet. But in my opinion, such a self-propelled air defense system is even less useful than the old Strela-2M.
              1. +2
                13 February 2024 16: 18
                hi
                Hello!
                Most likely it is a "358", there is no point in taking a good missile like the R73 and making it into a bad air defense missile.
                “Today, the Israeli military reported that their air defense shot down an anti-aircraft missile launched by Hezbollah at an Israeli military UAV. Now photos have appeared, as stated from southern Lebanon, with the fragments of a downed missile found today after this, which clearly indicate that this is the same Iranian loitering anti-aircraft missile designed to destroy low-speed targets, such as UAVs and helicopters, known by the index given to it by the Americans as the anti-aircraft missile 358. The original Iranian name of this missile is still unknown, although it has already been officially shown in Iran and was used by the Yemeni Houthis under the name Saqr- 1 against UAVs of the Saudi coalition in recent years. This missile was also used in Iraq by the People's Militia, but from Lebanon this is the first known case of its use there, although there was no doubt that the armed wing of Hezbollah had it. Apparently, At first, they were afraid to use such missiles in the conditions of civil and government aviation still operating in Lebanon, but Israel’s active use of reconnaissance and strike UAVs in recent days during the ongoing clashes on the Lebanese-Israeli border forced them to try to begin their limited use, and Civil aviation no longer seems to fly over southern Lebanon."
                https://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/1148051.html

                The fact that a drone was shot down was admitted, but IMHO, a drone is a “convenient target.”
                Here's the "new stuff" (there's a lot more about "358" in the links)
                “The Lebanese Islamic Resistance, the armed wing of Hezbollah, distributed footage of the defeat as stated by the Israeli Hermes 450 UAV. Judging by the video, it seems that the drone was caught up by the Iranian loitering anti-aircraft missile 358, already known in Yemen. It is clearly noticeable that the missile is not very fast and has a developed X-shaped tail, just like the "358" missiles, and the footage from the optical-electronic system is similar to what the Houthis from Yemen posted after the defeat of the UAV... However, in this case, as far as one can understand, the warhead did not work, therefore the missile hit the UAV, but did not destroy it." https://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/tag/358
                1. +3
                  14 February 2024 02: 18
                  Hello!
                  Quote: Wildcat
                  Most likely it is a "358", there is no point in taking a good missile like the R73 and making it into a bad air defense missile.

                  That's not how it works in this case. No.
                  The R-73 guided missiles remained in warehouses after the existing MiG-29s were destroyed. These missiles were used in an improvised air defense system according to the principle “I cobbled it together from what I had.”
                  However, this does not in any way contradict the version with the "358" missile defense system.
            4. +3
              13 February 2024 12: 45
              Quote: Wildcat
              The fact of the drone’s defeat is admitted, IMHO, according to statements this was “FrankenPVO at minimum wages.” No other air defense was recorded.

              Who recorded it? The Houthis have declared a lot of things, but they have no faith No.
        2. +4
          13 February 2024 12: 29
          Quote: Wildcat
          Some sources like SIPRI have long written that Yemen bought the R-77 along with other new aircraft missiles in the 2000s. when they bought the MiG-29SMT and modernized the old MiG-29s.

          Regarding the R-77 UR, this is not true. The only buyer of export P-77s was Algeria. But this country paid for them, poor Yemen did not have money, does not have it and never will.
          1. +3
            13 February 2024 16: 21
            Personally, I was unable to notice the characteristic plumage of the P77 in the attached photos. But Lyamin claims that it is there. And how she could get there is not important.
            1. +3
              14 February 2024 02: 14
              Quote: Wildcat
              Personally, I was unable to notice the characteristic plumage of the P77 in the attached photos. But Lyamin claims that it is there. And how she could get there is not important.

              There are photos of half-hidden missiles, but most likely these are dummies.
  2. +1
    13 February 2024 10: 28
    The adoption of the R-27 family of missile launchers made it possible to eliminate the gap with the United States in medium-range air-to-air missiles and to more fully unleash the potential of Soviet 4th generation fighters. The Soviet R-27R missile significantly surpassed the American AIM-7F missile in its main parameters.

    He went for the tree for the third time and got it... But it was already spring, and he took the tree back. © smile
    What I mean is that in the mid-80s, URVVs with PARL seekers were already considered obsolete as a class. The capabilities of the BKO aircraft of that time made it possible to disrupt the target acquisition of the seeker of these missiles up to distances when it was already necessary to switch to Sidewinders. Or the carrier of these airborne missiles, constrained in maneuvering, was hit by the enemy.
    1. +4
      13 February 2024 12: 58
      Quote: Alexey RA
      What I mean is that in the mid-80s, URVVs with PARL seekers were already considered obsolete as a class. The capabilities of the BKO aircraft of that time made it possible to disrupt the target acquisition of the seeker of these missiles

      And when did combat missiles with ARL seeker appear in combat squadrons?
      Regarding the failure of lock-on and guidance, with a high probability the Tu-96MS aircraft, the modernized Tu-16P and An-12PP, and possibly the Yak-28P (but this is not certain) were capable of this. Front-line fighters, attack aircraft and bombers were not capable of this.

      The Americans had a well-protected B-1980H in the 52s, as well as specialized EA-6 and EA-111.

      American AIM-7 missiles of later modifications showed not very high efficiency in the 80-90s, but not at all due to the fact that their opponents had aircraft equipped with good electronic warfare systems.
      1. +2
        13 February 2024 16: 48
        Quote: Bongo
        And when did combat missiles with ARL seeker appear in combat squadrons?

        The adversary - exactly in the last year of the Cold War. They made it in time.
        But for us - only in Syria, and after the downing of the Su-24. Before this, all the photos of the “dry” aircraft had clearly visible “butterflies” of the R-27, or even just the RVV MD.
        Quote: Bongo
        Regarding the failure of lock-on and guidance, with a high probability the Tu-96MS aircraft, the modernized Tu-16P and An-12PP, and possibly the Yak-28P (but this is not certain) were capable of this. Front-line fighters, attack aircraft and bombers were not capable of this.

        EMNIP, in the ZVO article with an analysis of the American tests of the AIM-7 of the 80s, it was written that specialized jammers were not used - the capture failure was ensured by the standard IB BKO + pendant stations.
        Quote: Bongo
        American AIM-7 missiles of later modifications showed not very high efficiency in the 80-90s, but not at all due to the fact that their opponents had aircraft equipped with good electronic warfare systems.

        EMNIP, in Iraq there was an epic incident with Sparrow firing at a target that was below USAF fighters - failure after failure even without REP.
        1. +3
          13 February 2024 21: 42
          Without these very suspended stations, BKO alone will not do anything. In addition, in such a combination, the missile homing head will always be the weak link, and it makes no difference whether it is semi-active or active radar. They work in the same way for reception, and the possibilities of semi-acting work in the presence of a reference channel are not fully used.
          Problems when working against the ground are caused by other reasons than the semi-active backlight.
        2. +2
          14 February 2024 02: 12
          Quote: Alexey RA
          The adversary - exactly in the last year of the Cold War.

          In combat squadrons in the early 1990s. It was possible to saturate the troops only in the 21st century. In addition, the first AIM-120 is not the modern AIM-120C-7, and certainly not the AIM-120D.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          But for us - only in Syria, and after the downing of the Su-24.

          You are a little unaware of the history of the appearance and development of the R-77, but it is fascinating and surprising... fellow This story is related to the return of the MiG-29 from Algeria.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          EMNIP, in the ZVO article with an analysis of the American tests of the AIM-7 of the 80s, it was written that specialized jammers were not used - the capture failure was ensured by the standard IB BKO + pendant stations.

          This is not true. No.
  3. KCA
    -1
    14 February 2024 08: 30
    Where will the outskirts people get KRAZs? The plant has been around for 10 years, they should have painted it right away in the Tatras
  4. 0
    11 March 2024 16: 11
    I just came across this article today. I'll write comments a little later.
    One of them-
    On medium-range missiles (for example, on the Soviet R-27R or the American AIM-7 Sparrow), PARL seekers are used in combination with INS and radio correction.

    If it’s a stretch to talk about the INS on Sparrow, then what kind of radio correction did it have?
  5. -1
    12 March 2024 00: 03
    I continue with comments -

    2) While the Americans tried to unify their air combat missiles for various carriers, the USSR, on the contrary, often created its own radar-guided missile for each new interceptor.

    In many ways, the deunification was determined by differences in the frequencies of the carrier’s radar illumination channel.
    This was overcome only by unifying the illumination frequencies of the Su-27 and MiG-29 aircraft.


    3) When creating the R-23R missile launcher, its weight was reduced to 222 kg, and its characteristics were brought closer to the American AIM-7E Sparrow.

    The reasoning for weight reduction is not clear: the R-8/98 had a comparable weight. But to bring the characteristics closer to the AIM-7E Sparrow is not a correct remark: the R-23R was superior to the AIM-7E Sparrow, in particular in terms of working against the ground. This is largely why the domestic copy of the AIM-7E Sparrow - the K-25 missile - was not accepted into service with the MiG-23.


    4) For the MiG-25P interceptor, the R-40R (with PARL seeker) and R-40T (with IR seeker) missiles were created. The R-40R missile weighed 455 kg, had a length of more than 6,7 m and a firing range of up to 30 km.

    There is no mention of the R-40D missile with a launch range of up to 60 km, with the ability to work on targets against the background of the earth and a significant flight segment before the target is captured by the RGS, thanks to solutions transferred from the R-24 missile.

    5) The adoption of the R-27 family of missile launchers made it possible to bridge the gap with the United States in medium-range air-to-air missiles and to more fully reveal the potential of Soviet 4th generation fighters.

    The gap with the United States was overcome with the R-23/24 and R-40D missiles. The R-27 made it possible to gain an advantage in medium-range missiles.