Mannlicher rifle with a “gravity magazine” and a rifle with burst loading

73
Mannlicher rifle with a “gravity magazine” and a rifle with burst loading


While Grishchenko was scratching behind his ear,
his Mannlicher's front sight stopped just
at Volodya's chest level. Human,
aiming at Volodya from a Mannlicher,
lay beyond the threshold of the room.
Having woken up from the concussion, he rummaged around himself.
His hand first felt someone's cold face,
then the butt. He pulled him towards him
and stuck his finger into the hole at the bottom of the magazine.
The finger entered the hole to the depth of one cartridge case.
“Four cartridges in the magazine,” the man thought.
Is there a cartridge in the barrel? It was impossible to click the shutter -
the one standing at the entrance could hear and jump to the side.
But the rifle is on safety;
therefore, there is a cartridge in the barrel.
The man in the room quietly pulled the fuse
and pressed his cheek to the butt.
A. V. Kozachinsky “Green Van”

People and weapon. Today we continue our story about rifles designed by Mannlicher, which is based on the English-language edition of 1946 and is accompanied by color images by A. Sheps, made on the basis of drawings and diagrams from this book.



In general, in an effort to further simplify the design of the cartridge feeding mechanism, Mannlicher decided to use gravity to feed cartridges and designed a magazine located above the bolt, which did not require a spring.

This model, called the "Model 1882", was designed to use standard Army Wern Model 77 rifle cartridges. The bolt locking mechanism was also very similar to that of the tube magazine rifle we have already described; but the design of the extractor and feeder was changed, as required by the different location and design of the magazine.

The store itself was a box-shaped clip open on the sides, the front and rear walls of which were inclined forward. Inside, the magazine was profiled so that the cartridges, while in it, would not touch each other with their edges and would easily slide down to the bolt.

This unusual magazine held 7 rounds. An empty magazine could be easily recharged by inserting cartridges into it from above. Moreover, the cartridges fed so well that no spring was required to push them. Their own weight was quite enough.


Model 1882 rifle with a top-mounted magazine and a straight bolt: side and top view. Drawing by A. Sheps

When the bolt moved back to its limit, with its protrusion it pressed on the spring-loaded L-shaped lever, and it was pressed against the wall of the receiver. At this point, the cartridge fell out of the magazine into the receiver and was ready to move laterally to be loaded into the chamber when the bolt subsequently moved forward.

When the bolt moved forward, the L-shaped lever pushed the cartridge into the feed channel, and turning the bolt handle down blocked the bolt and completed its cocking. The magazine was attached to the rifle with a pin and was shifted to the right (as viewed from the butt) so as not to block the aiming line.

It should be noted that this type of gravity store has never had much success with the military, but was tested in several countries at once. However, the top-mounted magazine found its way into such outstanding European light machine gun designs as the Czech ZB, British Bren, Danish Madsen and Spanish Mendoza, used in both World War I and World War II, and even for a significant period of time after the end of the last one.


The device of the bolt and magazine of a rifle 1882. Drawing by A. Sheps

Meanwhile, Germany quietly rearmed its troops with Mauser rifles of the 1871–1884 model. It was a weapon with a tube magazine, and it gave the German army such firepower that it required the complete rearmament of all European armies, despite the enormous financial cost.

Therefore, in the same 1884, the Mannlicher company introduced another rifle, again designed for the 11-mm M77 cartridge. This weapon, although never produced in large numbers, was extremely important because it pioneered the principle of direct breech action. This design, with some improvements, was later used in the famous Austrian M 95 rifle, a weapon that was in use even during World War II.

A secondary feature of this rifle was the improved gravity-fed magazine design introduced in the earlier model. In essence, it was a five-round cartridge clip that was inserted into the receiver on the left so as not to interfere with aiming when firing. The clip held 5 rounds.


Diagram of the M1884 rifle: right side sectional view (1), top view of the cartridge in the receiver during reverse movement of the bolt (2), operation of the L-shaped feed lever at the initial moment of forward movement of the bolt (3) and arrangement of the cartridge pack ( 4)


It was designed in such a way that the edge of the lowest cartridge protruded from the “pack”. Moving back, the bolt pulled it out by the edge, and it fell inside the receiver, and another cartridge took its place. Continuing to move backward, the bolt pressed on the protrusion of the L-shaped lever, and it pushed the cartridge onto the feed line into the chamber. Then the bolt moved forward, fed the cartridge into the chamber, and the L-shaped lever was pressed against the wall of the receiver and did not prevent the new cartridge from falling into place of the previous one when the bolt moved back.

Since gravity-fed magazines have not been proven effective, this rifle represents only historical interest. However, the principle used in it of locking the shutter during its forward stroke is important. This original version, the Model 84, had the bolt ride on guides in the receiver.

When the bolt handle was pulled back, he pulled the firing pin behind him, which was finally captured and held by the sear. A manual safety was built into the rear of the cylinder bolt to ensure effective locking of the bolt mechanism. The combat protrusions, again, were located at its rear. The rotational movement of the rear part of the bolt, which had spiral grooves, rotated it 90 degrees, and released the locking lugs from their seats in the receiver.

The front part of the bolt with the extractor looked like a rectangular block and moved strictly in a straight line. The shutter handle also only moved straight. Its rear part rotated, locking the front part of the bolt in the receiver with its protrusions at the rear. An extractor at the front of the bolt pulled the empty case out of the chamber until it struck the ejector, at which point it was ejected from the rifle.

In 1885, the designer introduced a "straight-action" rifle, the action of which was almost identical to that of the Model 84. This rifle marks the official introduction of the famous Mannlicher clip, which fell out of the bottom of the magazine when the cartridges were used up. Although the cartridge was the same, it was slightly modified compared to the original Werdl cartridge. The charge of black smoky powder was increased, and the lead bullet itself was wrapped in paper, which significantly increased the speed of the bullet.

The magazine has an opening at the bottom large enough to allow the clip to fall out when empty. The loaded clip is inserted through the open bolt and enters the magazine itself. The clip is stamped from sheet steel and has a diamond shape, allowing it to be inserted in only one direction. The ribs are pressed into the surface of the sheet metal to give the cage rigidity.


Cartridge "pack" for the Mannlicher rifle 1886. Swedish Army Museum


And this is a cartridge for it...

When a loaded clip is inserted into the magazine, the lower cartridge rests against the upper of two arms, hinged together by a flat spring. The lower lever at the front of the magazine is actuated by a flat spring and can be freely raised between the side walls of the clip. A loaded clip loaded into the magazine cannot fall out of it, as it is held in place by the locking latch.

When the clip is empty, the magazine pusher rises freely into the space between the side walls, after which it can fall out through a narrow hole cut for this purpose in the lower part of the magazine. Such a weapon is convenient because it can be used as a single-shot rifle, inserting single cartridges directly into the chamber.

However, if a loaded clip is inserted into the magazine, then with each opening and closing movement of the bolt, the chamber will be ejected and subsequently reloaded from the clip without the ability to keep the clip in reserve. It was the first straight action service rifle in the world.

This rifle became standard issue in the Austrian Army and was used for many years by both the Austrians and Italians during World Wars I and II. Large numbers of these rifles were given to the Italians in 1917–1918 and were later used by Italian forces in World War II. Officially, this rifle is known as the "Model 1886 Mannlicher System with Fixed Vertical 5-Round Box Magazine."


Rifle 1886. Performance characteristics of the 1886 model rifle: weight – 4,52 g, length – 132,6 mm, barrel length – 80,6 cm. Caliber – 11 mm or .433. The barrel is rifled with 6 grooves to the right. The scope is graduated from 200 steps (164 yards) to 2 steps (300 yards or 1 m). In 886, the rifle was modernized for a new cartridge with smokeless powder - 1,725x1888 mm. Swedish Army Museum


The 1888 rifle is already chambered for the 8 mm cartridge. Swedish Army Museum

To be continued ...
73 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +2
    10 February 2024 05: 34
    Quote: Vyacheslav Shpakovsky
    A large number of these rifles were transferred to the Italians in 1917–1918
    How could the Austrians give these rifles to the Italians when they were opponents in WWI?
    1. +2
      10 February 2024 07: 21
      Quote: Dutchman Michel
      Quote: Vyacheslav Shpakovsky
      A large number of these rifles were transferred to the Italians in 1917–1918
      How could the Austrians give these rifles to the Italians when they were opponents in WWI?

      I don't know, it was written like that...
      1. +2
        10 February 2024 07: 44
        Quote: kalibr
        that's how it was written...
        1. +3
          10 February 2024 08: 30
          Quote: kalibr
          Quote: kalibr
          that's how it was written...

          Actually, some stupid text. Perhaps, as an alternative, we can say that the rifles were not transferred to the Italians, but returned back to the Austrians. Word Gymnast can be interpreted as a cycle or rotation. Those. The Italians had Mannlicher rifles at their disposal even before the war, but after the defeat of 1917 they returned to Austria again. Or it’s several translations from one language to another, resulting in a damaged phone. People who know the language better than me will probably give a better translation...
          1. +2
            10 February 2024 08: 40
            Quote: Luminman
            returned to Austria.

            If they “returned,” then how can we understand what is written next? That they were actively used by the Italians even during World War II? You can't use something you gave back to someone...
            1. +3
              10 February 2024 08: 45
              Quote: kalibr
              If you returned, then how can you understand what is written next? That they were actively used by the Italians even during World War II?

              After the defeat of the Italians in 1917 at Caporetto, they abandoned a lot of weapons, which went to the Austrians. But didn’t they lose all their weapons?

              Or this answer:

              Quote: Luminman
              Or these are several translations from one language to another, resulting in a damaged phone
              1. +1
                10 February 2024 16: 12
                I bet on "damaged phone"
          2. +5
            10 February 2024 10: 02
            Actually, some stupid text.

            The text is not stupid, the text is a little incorrect. The author of the book had in mind the Mannlicher M1888 rifle. This rifle is virtually identical to its predecessor, the Mannlicher M1886, but uses a new 8mm cartridge - 8x52mmR black powder or 8x50mmR smokeless. The version chambered for 8×50mmR was designated M.88–90. The Italians captured many of these rifles as trophies and used them under the designation Fucile Mannlicher Modello 88-90. The rear units were armed with these rifles.
            In addition, the Italians, as reparations, received approximately 200 Mannlicher M 000 rifles, which were used by colonial troops under the designation Fucile Mannlicher Modello 1895.
            1. +2
              10 February 2024 11: 15
              Quote: Dekabrist
              In addition, the Italians received approximately 200 rifles for reparations.

              This is probably the correct answer, but the date 1917 completely erases everything. WWXNUMX was still going on. I can also assume that the Italians received rifles as allies of Italy after the Anschluss happened
              1. +3
                10 February 2024 11: 37
                Quote: Dutchman Michel
                rifles Italians received as allies Italy,

                Who's whose? belay
                1. +2
                  10 February 2024 11: 40
                  Quote: Senior Sailor
                  Who's whose

                  Typo. Of course Germany
                2. +1
                  10 February 2024 16: 16
                  Sailor, good health. I thought it was just my imagination... I also thought: maybe not from a hangover
              2. +1
                10 February 2024 16: 38
                Quote: Dutchman Michel
                the date 1917 completely erases everything.

                I can only say that this date is truly significant. But I wrote at the beginning what book this series would be based on. Therefore, all the advantages, as well as the disadvantages, come from there. Yes, they probably could have been corrected, but this is work of a different kind. And here specifically: here is the book, here is the author, this is how he sees it. And my job is only to try to translate more accurately and throw out completely incomprehensible passages that were quite possibly incomprehensible to the author himself. If I had these rifles at hand, then it would be a different matter. However, I just had a Mannlicher-Carcano carbine and there was my material about it here.
      2. +5
        10 February 2024 09: 18
        I don't know, it was written like that...
        Bravo, Vyacheslav! Killer argument! What about thinking? The comments suggested options, but nothing yourself?
        1. 0
          10 February 2024 10: 00
          Quote: Aviator_
          but not yourself?

          For what? I don't see the point in thinking about obvious things. Whoever needs it, let him think. It also says war booty - war booty or war trophies. That says it all.
          1. +5
            10 February 2024 11: 56
            For what? I don't see the point in thinking about obvious things. Whoever needs it, let him think.
            It's clear. The author does not need this function. But the fact that this characterizes the quality of the note is not important. The fee does not depend on the quality.
            1. -2
              10 February 2024 15: 51
              Quote: Aviator_
              But the fact that this characterizes the quality of the note is not important.

              For people like you, this quality is enough. There is only one Decembrist here and he can figure out what’s what. For 3 thousand people who read the material, this is not an indicator... Moreover, the article is not about Italian trophies, but about the design of a rifle.
              1. +5
                10 February 2024 19: 25
                For people like you, this quality is enough.
                But where can I, a native of the Orenburg communal apartment, head the department of physics, head. sector "Optoelectronic and holographic measuring instruments", to comprehend the flight of such a thought. I am melting into a muddy puddle before the greatness of the party propagandist, whose main argument remains - “and it’s written there.”
                1. -3
                  10 February 2024 20: 32
                  Quote: Aviator_
                  For people like you, this quality is enough.
                  But where can I, a native of the Orenburg communal apartment, head the department of physics, head. sector "Optoelectronic and holographic measuring instruments", to comprehend the flight of such a thought. I am melting into a muddy puddle before the greatness of the party propagandist, whose main argument remains - “and it’s written there.”

                  Eck, you, Sergei, are getting fart. Do you understand fiber optics? Well, great! Rejoice. Or do you also want to understand rifles? Sign up as a volunteer at the Russian Army Museum. You will clean them and gain knowledge. Why do you constantly compare horseradish to your finger? No need. You have your own, me mine. Remember the film "Red Square"? What did Kutasov say about the chicken coop to the commissar? Here too, you cannot understand everything equally well and think that knowledge of holographic measuring instruments allows you to understand everything. You have to give up something...
                2. -2
                  10 February 2024 20: 56
                  [quote=Aviator_] By the way, Sergey! It’s cool, of course, to be the manager of a cafe, but if a person is...., then it’s easy to change him using PR methods. It happens that their employees get so sick that they hire an appropriate specialist and... the end of the “café manager’s” career comes very quickly. I know of at least one such case. And soon I’ll tell you in the series “about public relations.”
                  1. +2
                    10 February 2024 21: 07
                    then it can be easily changed using PR methods.
                    In areas where a specific result is important, PR methods do not work. Especially,
                    I don’t need advice from a professional PR person. And in English you screwed up again. hi
                    1. -1
                      10 February 2024 21: 10
                      Quote: Aviator_
                      And in English I screwed up again.

                      You are completely stupid, Sergey, even though you are a fiber optic manager. Everything is translated correctly. Anyone will tell you that. And why did you decide that I was advising you something? Unlike you, I don’t care about your professional activities at all. I just remembered an interesting example related to this position. A kind of announcement for readers. That's all.
                      1. +2
                        10 February 2024 21: 17
                        You are completely stupid, Sergey, even though you are a fiber optic manager.
                        Now, if you, a propagandist, knew anything, you would understand that the department is in one office, and optoelectronics is in another. Again, fiber optics is one thing, but optoelectronic methods are something else entirely. So, for development - it will suddenly help. And why are you so excited, why are you getting personal? And who cares about this? Your attack on the fan counts.
                      2. -3
                        10 February 2024 21: 21
                        Quote: Aviator_
                        And why are you so excited, why are you getting personal? And who cares about this? Your attack on the fan counts.

                        Well, in any case, I’m not poking you like a bully, yes. Do your fiber for your health, why do I need it? Just remember that narrow specialization is cool, but it is a way of self-enslavement.
                    2. -2
                      10 February 2024 21: 22
                      Quote: Aviator_
                      screwed up.

                      Is your record stuck? The translation is correct. This is not difficult to check. That is why the passage is given.
    2. +4
      10 February 2024 08: 54
      Quote: Dutchman Michel
      How could the Austrians give these rifles to the Italians when they were opponents in WWI?

      If I didn’t know that the Italians and the Austrians were opponents in WWI, then I would have taken everything at face value...
      1. -1
        10 February 2024 11: 17
        Quote: Luminman
        If I didn’t know that the Italians and the Austrians were opponents in WWI, then I would have taken everything at face value

        At first I accepted it too wink
    3. +4
      10 February 2024 09: 26
      Quote: Dutchman Michel
      How could the Austrians give these rifles to the Italians when they were opponents in WWI?

      As trophies! fellow
      1. -2
        10 February 2024 11: 32
        Quote: Senior Sailor
        As trophies!

        Exactly the opposite wink
    4. +1
      10 February 2024 12: 31
      According to the British War Office, the monthly losses of Austro-Hungarian troops from June 1 to October 24, 1918 on the Italian front amounted to 80 thousand killed, wounded and sick, including 16 thousand killed. In addition, during this period the Allies took about 20 thousand Austro-Hungarian prisoners. In this case, from June 1 to November 1, 1918, the losses of the Austria-Hungarian army on the Italian front are estimated at 80 thousand killed, 320 thousand wounded and sick, and 20 thousand prisoners.

      BOOK
      Sokolov B.V.
      "The USSR and Russia are at the slaughter..."
      This is how the Italians could get Austrian rifles.
  2. +2
    10 February 2024 06: 38
    Did A. Sheps hire “literary blacks” for himself? There were some beautiful illustrations...
    1. 0
      10 February 2024 09: 21
      Did A. Sheps hire “literary blacks” for himself? There were some beautiful illustrations...
      You are not right. These are not literary, but artistic blacks. And the rest is all correct.
  3. 0
    10 February 2024 06: 45
    Those were the times! (c) Brother 2
    I read it diagonally... because somehow I don’t remember where in this reading matter - I was imbued with it. Oh, how much there was at the dawn of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th.... And here we are, trampling, that they won’t come up with... it turns out to be a Kalashmat good lol
    1. +1
      14 February 2024 22: 14
      The general population is getting used to automating reloading processes request. Greetings hi drinks good smile
      1. 0
        14 February 2024 22: 53
        drinks hi good
        Quote: oppozite28
        Welcome
        Mutually colleague!
  4. 0
    10 February 2024 06: 58
    Here it is, almost an automatic machine! Vyacheslav, my respects hi
    1. +1
      10 February 2024 07: 45
      Quote: novel xnumx
      Here it is, almost an automatic machine! Vyacheslav, my respects hi

      Novel! Thank you! There will be more about Mannlicher machine guns.
      1. +2
        10 February 2024 08: 33
        Indeed, one can write and write about Mannlicher’s weapon. And, most importantly, each sample is interesting in its own way.
  5. +2
    10 February 2024 08: 20
    I always said that Vyacheslav Shpakovsky has good articles wink
  6. +1
    10 February 2024 10: 19
    Thanks for the interesting article!
    Doesn't anything above the barrel limit your view? Right left. But it limits it.
    1. +1
      10 February 2024 12: 00
      Probably limiting. But at a distance of 200-800 m, the angle of view is probably not so small. In any case, no one complained about this drawback in the machine guns of Madsen, Bren, Zb-26/30, Mendoza, but there it is more important.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +2
        10 February 2024 15: 35
        Good article, thanks, Vyacheslav! good
        Madsena, Brena, Zb-26/30, Mendoza,

        Below are the photos in list order.
        1. +1
          10 February 2024 15: 44
          Thank you, Konstantin! By the way, there were my articles about everything about them!
          1. +2
            10 February 2024 18: 03
            there were my articles about everything about them!

            So I didn’t leave the bathhouse for six months. laughing
            Read - read, but were not allowed to comment. drinks
            1. +1
              10 February 2024 20: 40
              Quote: Sea Cat
              So I didn’t leave the bathhouse for six months.

              And who is to blame for this? What did the Arabs say in the 11th century? "The offending tongue is cut off along with the head."
              1. +1
                10 February 2024 21: 13
                So their head was the most unnecessary part of the body, so the whites beat them as they wanted.
                1. +1
                  10 February 2024 21: 15
                  Quote: Sea Cat
                  So their head was the most unnecessary part of the body, so the whites beat them as they wanted.

                  That's right, it's with these statements that bans are earned. Could you also name the body part they most need...
                  1. +1
                    10 February 2024 21: 44
                    Could you also name the body part they most need...


                    I'll call it the stomach. laughing
                    1. +1
                      10 February 2024 21: 52
                      Quote: Sea Cat
                      I'll call it the stomach.

                      Cats... they're cunning. Sea cats - doubly so!
                      1. +1
                        10 February 2024 22: 24
                        That is where the Russian land stands! wink drinks
        2. +1
          10 February 2024 19: 47
          Below are the photos in list order.

          Are they really gravitational? Is there a spring stuck in there by any chance? smile
          By the way, Lewis also seems to have a gravity feed. Even though it's a disk and not a store.
          1. +1
            10 February 2024 20: 17
            The Lewis machine gun used unusual open bottom disc magazines for 47 or 97 rounds. In such stores, the cartridges are held by the central disk by the nose, and they themselves are located inside in the form of a radial fan. There is no spring in such a store, and the supply occurs due to the fact that the cartridges simply fall into the machine gun as a result of mechanical action. So, the store at Lewis was driven by a cam at the top of the bolt, which, through a special curved lever, ensured the operation of the cartridge feed mechanism and at the same time turned the store itself.
            1. +1
              10 February 2024 20: 41
              Quote: Sea Cat
              turned the store itself.

              That’s exactly what you couldn’t say better!
      3. 0
        10 February 2024 23: 54
        at Madsen and Bren machine guns

        What does a Bren machine gun mean?
        Bren is short for Brno-Enfield.
        1. 0
          11 February 2024 06: 00
          Quote from: ln_ln
          at Madsen and Bren machine guns

          What does a Bren machine gun mean?
          Bren is short for Brno-Enfield.

          Well, Lord, I wrote it in a hurry and it slipped through. This is not in the article about him. You can find, read and check.
  7. 0
    10 February 2024 10: 47
    When a loaded clip is inserted into the magazine, the lower cartridge rests against the upper of two arms, hinged together by a flat spring.
    Somehow this phrase is not clear to me.
    1. +1
      10 February 2024 11: 11
      Quote: Ua3qhp
      When a loaded clip is inserted into the magazine, the lower cartridge rests against the upper of two arms, hinged together by a flat spring.
      Somehow this phrase is not clear to me.

      The fact that there are two levers is clear. But how they interact is unclear from the description. They, these book descriptions, are not always sensible. I was not able to hold this rifle in my hands.
      1. +3
        10 February 2024 11: 46
        They, these book descriptions, are not always sensible. I was not able to hold this rifle in my hands.
        There seems to be a lack of drawings here for the variant with a lower magazine location. I saw a live variant of the Mannlicher-caracano with burst loading. And I’m slowly starting to understand what we’re talking about. By the way, when the cartridges in the pack are used up, the feeder lever rises to the highest position and does not allow the bolt to close. This is a kind of shutter stop.
        PS In the article, the terminology is “walking”, either “pack” or “clip” when describing the same product. It seems to me that instead of leading to a “pack”, the clip is a slightly different device in rifle terminology.
        1. +1
          10 February 2024 11: 53
          Quote: Ua3qhp
          then "pack" then "clip"

          Yes, you are right. We are more accustomed to writing and saying clip, but “pack” and clip” are different things, of course.
        2. +3
          10 February 2024 14: 19
          There seems to be a lack of drawings here for the variant with a lower magazine location.

          There is such a picture (below). It’s just that the author limited himself to one book, which is still not flawless. Unfortunately, there are no such fundamental publications on Mannlicher as, for example, on Mauser.
          1. +1
            10 February 2024 16: 10
            And here two white levers with a spring appeared in the left picture. Later, two levers were abandoned.
  8. +5
    10 February 2024 11: 04
    It should be noted that this type of gravity store has never had much success with the military, but was tested in several countries at once.

    And it was even used in some designs, such as the 1883 Gra rifle or the M1896 Madsen-Rasmussen self-loading rifle.
    1. +3
      10 February 2024 11: 10
      I haven’t seen any material about Gra, but I even wrote about Madsen-Rasmussen once, but a long time ago. Thanks for the addition!
  9. 0
    10 February 2024 15: 56
    "the magazine has a hole at the bottom"
    Gunsmith Fedorov, the creator of the machine gun, recalled that, what
    1. 0
      10 February 2024 16: 30
      Have to supplement myself with "edit time"
      Fedorov, on the eve of WWI, gave lectures to the cadets and said that this hole is stupid: I will fill the garbage. The PMV showed that the holes were convenient: garbage spilled out
      1. 0
        10 February 2024 16: 32
        Quote: vladcub
        Have to supplement myself with "edit time"
        Fedorov, on the eve of WWI, gave lectures to the cadets and said that this hole is stupid: I will fill the garbage. The PMV showed that the holes were convenient: garbage spilled out

        Fedorov’s book “In Search of Weapons” was once published by the magazine Tekhnika-youth... I read it there too and noted it to myself.
      2. +1
        10 February 2024 19: 53
        Quote: vladcub
        The PMV showed that the holes were convenient: garbage spilled out

        Sure sure. Do you remember the Shosha machine gun? With a magazine open on the side. It became by far the worst machine gun of WWI precisely because of its magazine. The WWII clearly showed that if there is even a crack where dirt can get clogged, it belongs to the khan’s weapon.
        1. +3
          10 February 2024 20: 44
          Quote: Saxahorse
          It became by far the worst machine gun of WWI precisely because of its magazine.

          Not only. It has a very complicated story... Haste, corruption... + design flaws...
          1. 0
            10 February 2024 21: 38
            V. Oh, just a wartime Shosh machine gun. And it was created on the knee.
            Hotchkiss is an "aristocrat". So, approximately, Ignatiev says
            1. +1
              10 February 2024 21: 54
              Quote: vladcub
              And it was created on the knee.

              Exactly! With all the consequences...
  10. +1
    10 February 2024 19: 56
    Mannlicher is handsome! good
    In my opinion, there are only two such bright and fruitful inventors of weapons, Browning and Mannlicher.
    1. +1
      10 February 2024 20: 43
      Quote: Saxahorse
      Browning and Mannlicher.

      !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  11. +1
    10 February 2024 22: 12
    But isn't this a pack? The clips look different.