Versions on IL-76: who benefits and who is to blame

74
Versions on IL-76: who benefits and who is to blame

In the first lines: I sincerely express my regret that our pilots and military personnel died, this is another loss for all of us and especially for their relatives and friends.

I am sorry that Ukrainian families will not see theirs, although this meeting was oh, so close. Although no, I don’t have a single drop of regret about the “Azov” ones, I won’t lie. But in any case, claims should be made to the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.



With the second part of the question asked above, “who is to blame,” everything is simple. In our country they will argue that in Ukraine they will feverishly appoint, because the slap in the face turned out to be significant. The only question is - to whom.

For the whole day I watched the frenzied joy that spread in the Ukrainian media on the topic of the downed plane with S-300 missiles. I slowly “admired the awareness” of the Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate, but the thought crept into my head that these banduras could (and should) be moved more safely by rail. Of course, things happen there too, but not so critically.

Then, as the information passed through, the neighbors began to quietly panic, which then grew into a flurry of deleted messages. Nothing has been removed so quickly and in such quantities for a long time. In a few hours, Peremoga was reformatted into “but nothing happened, but what is this?” But the sneaky Internet remembers everything.

I was surprised by the unusual silence on Bankova, just in the style of our Ministry of Defense. There was deathly silence, no comments. Apparently, they feverishly comprehended the current situation in the style of “Who threw the felt boots on the remote control?”

And this silence became confirmation of several versions at once that are being raised for consideration today.

Il-76, according to eyewitnesses, was shot down by two missiles. “Patriot” or IRIS-T – it doesn’t matter. The important thing is that the operation was planned. The air defense systems were brought up to the effective launch limits, and obviously there were visual observers on our side. Plus, not only the flight route was clearly known, but also the time frame, which made it possible not to use the radar in vain, since they could have been detected from our side.

Of course, IRIS-T is more suitable for the method of application. It is more mobile than the Patriot, and American air defense systems guard Kyiv. But that's not the point.

It is more important to understand who or what, what forces are behind this operation. Who needed the death of the Russians and Ukrainians so much that such an order as “hit our own” was given and, most importantly, executed. After all, whatever one may say, on one side of the scale there are 9 Russians and one plane, on the other - 65 of our own.

And do not forget that after the first plane there was a second one, on board of which there were 70 more Ukrainians. And one Patriot launcher has four missiles. And IRIS-T has eight... Almost no chance.

Let's look at the versions?

1. “The Cretin at the Control”


Much has been said on this topic, but mostly these versions do not stand up to criticism. “A drunken air defense missile launch operator”, “a stubborn Nazi”, “a stoned Russophobe”, “some fool who wanted to hit a Russian plane” - this is the minimum that I read this day.

Russophobes, I note, are all there. It simply cannot be otherwise, Ukrainians are placed in such conditions, so everyone there is Russophobes. But about everything else - you know, a modern anti-aircraft missile system is a complex organism, and with a simple press of a button one person can send a missile, but the question is where. The essence of the actions of the air defense missile system crew is precisely coherence in terms of detection, identification, target acquisition, missile guidance and an attempt to hit the target.

“The crews didn’t know who they were shooting at.” Yes, perhaps we can agree. Ordinary performers are rarely given the full amount of information. It's bad for performance brains. So the crews saw two Russian transport aircraft on their radar screens and nothing more. Something tells me that launching into a plane where your own people are located is such a burden on the conscience, even for a Ukrainian.

Another thing is those who gave the orders.

2. Internal struggle in Kyiv


Maybe. The fact that there is no agreement within the ruling elites of Ukraine has been known for a long time. And some would gladly stop the war and negotiate, so as not to lose what they still have left at this moment.

And there is Zelensky’s party, which is going to fight until the last Ukrainian or until victory. “The whole world is with us” and everything else.

It is quite possible that the provocation with Il-76, which became a tragedy, was the work of one of the parties. Moreover, here I would look specifically at Zelensky’s party, because not only does he, as the president, have a lot of headaches with the giants demanding the return of husbands and sons who have been fighting for a year or more in their huts, but there are also those who demands the return of his relatives from captivity.

Considering that in Ukraine the population is not eager to go to the front at the word “at all”, and they surrender easily and not one by one, this provocation can be seen as a certain message to those who are weak in spirit. There is no need to surrender, you need to return with a shield, as the ancients said.

You can even give specifics. Confrontation between Zelensky and Zaluzhny. For now, Zelensky seems to be putting pressure, but it won’t be possible to remove Zaluzhny and send him to hell. The Ukrainian general is too popular and any pressure, as practice has already shown, can easily lead to another Maidan, only in the army. And the march of a certain number of units supporting Zaluzhny to Kyiv. Well, we already know how this is done.

Here, Zelensky’s party is directly interested in discrediting Zaluzhny. In the end, is it not the commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces who is responsible for everything that happens in the Armed Forces? Why do they kill their own people?

Although, with the same success, the forces of Zaluzhny’s party could have arranged a setup for Zelensky. In general, both had full access to information and both (Zaluzhny even more so) had plenty of opportunities to organize such an operation.

The version itself is not bad and ruthless, but it is not very supported by actions. After all, the media controlled by Zelensky screamed loudly about victory and another downed Russian plane. And then the chicken coop started throwing around when the ferret arrived. A single picture does not emerge.

And here we also need to say about the power steering of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. There are people sitting there who have a great command of the whole situation. And who communicate well with representatives of our structures. At least on the topic of prisoner exchange. All these committees and human rights activists are a trifle that should not be paid attention to. Until representatives of the relevant structures on both front lines give the go-ahead, there will be no exchange. There will be burnt seats in the Duma and Council committees, but there will be no exchange.

And the fact that the power steering fell into a certain stupor indicates that something went wrong. And the version with a load of missiles for the S-300 failed, since there was not a single missile in the wreckage on the field, and the version with some political VIPs who were thrown out of the plane by the FSB. In general, there the representative of the Main Intelligence Directorate, Yusov, was talking such nonsense all the time while the Main Intelligence Directorate was trying to understand what happened - you had to hear it.

In general, the reaction of the Ukrainian side was strange. We can say that in Kyiv they were no less surprised than dumbfounded by the information that came from Russia. And there was absolutely nothing to answer, because in the very first minutes the Ministry of Defense joyfully reported on the downing of the Il-76. But the fact that then a rant began that the plane was empty, that the S-300 was homing in on it and was launched at Kharkov - all this speaks of desperate improvisation in attempts to find at least some explanation for what was happening.

And here, on the ruins of the understanding of Kyiv, we have a third version.

3. The work is not the work of the Ukrainian Armed Forces


Where does this version come from? And she, oddly enough, has the right to live even more than the first two.

Let's take the French, for example. The fact that citizens of this country are present in the ranks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is no secret to anyone. As well as the presence of citizens of the USA, Canada, Poland, Romania, and Germany. Actually, the Ukrainian side not only did not deny the presence of these gentlemen in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, they boasted about it in every possible way. And from this short list, and the list of foreign citizens in the SVU itself is much larger in terms of geography, we are interested in precisely these. Precisely because these countries are armed with the same Patriot air defense system. And if you want to send a certain number of experienced and trained specialists “on vacation” or “on a business trip at the expense of the host party” - we are all smart people, we understand that it’s just right, if the money corresponds to the moment and the risks.

The same applies to citizens of Austria, Germany, Greece and Italy, who were also noticed on the territory of Ukraine in relation to German IRIS-T.

The French do not have Patriots in service. But there is a severe motivation to take revenge, since more than once the citizens of this country have come under our missile attacks. The motive, as they say, is obvious.

In general, the British rule everything behind the scenes there. And this is bad, I have already written more than once on the topic that the British are very good warriors. Skillful, professional, but most importantly, this is the very British trait that allowed them to build an empire in their time: contempt for everyone else.

Britain's tasks in this war are clear in principle. Maximum weakening of Russia. Well, and making money at the expense of Ukraine, if there is still something left to earn there. The French, after De Gaulle, always trudged in the wake of British politics, playing second fiddle to “give and bring.” Yes, Britain ceased to be the British Empire after the Second World War, but France also lost its claims to power.

There is no direct evidence, but why exactly did France block the last two attempts to convene the UN Security Light (on Belgorod and Il-76)? Not the USA, not the UK, but France.

The answer is simple: they appointed it. Germany cannot be touched, Scholz is milking the country in favor of Ukraine, completely killing the German economy, saving pounds and dollars for the real owners. But the French were almost out of business, so they were sent to the diplomatic field to fight.

So, the French provided cover at the UN. Fine. The British and Americans gave information because I personally do not have the slightest doubt that they could have information on everything that was happening on the front line and behind it. This is the job.

Could they replace the crew with their own, which would not bother the heads of those flying on the plane? Yes, easily.

It’s just realistic, if everyone in Zelensky’s administration is in shock, if the Ministry of Defense and the Main Intelligence Directorate cannot say anything clearly on the topic, perhaps they didn’t give the order? Did he come from a higher level than Zelensky or Zaluzhny?

I’m not trying to justify them at all, but who are 65 captured Ukrainians for American or British military consultants? Dirt underfoot, and nothing more. There is a certain plan that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are obliged to follow, and everything that is not included in it is unnecessary.

If the countries governing Ukraine decided to disrupt the negotiation process through such a provocation, then 65 captured Ukrainians are worth less in the eyes of the Americans than a crumpled pack of Marlboros in the pocket of their chief consultant. Who could send instructors or his specialists to the air defense system and give such an order.

With all the respect for Zaluzhny as a competent and dangerous enemy and disrespect for Zelensky as the president, it is still hard to believe that they signed the death warrant for their people. The puzzle doesn't work out well, no matter how you twist it.

But this fits in simply perfectly with the plan of the Americans and the British to wage war until the last Ukrainian. And the style of the Anglo-Saxons, when they don’t care about everyone and everything except their plans and goals, can be seen in all its glory. Yes, he is small, he is less vile in terms of meanness than the crime against 42 million Ukrainians, but in terms of vileness he is absolutely the same.

In general, all three plans have the right to life. But the lives stolen by the creators of these plans, alas, cannot be returned.
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  1. +3
    29 January 2024 04: 23
    It seems to me that this is a setup for Zelie. The anger of Ukrainian widows will be directed primarily at him. Too complex combinations in politics do not work.
    My condolences to the relatives of the deceased crew members and accompanying persons.
    1. +30
      29 January 2024 05: 42
      It doesn’t matter who benefits from it, and it doesn’t even matter who is to blame. Another sad thing is that no one cares about our country, prestige is below par! How is it that a Russian plane is shot down by Western missiles in our own airspace! Let's puff out our cheeks, draw lines... The liner (and there are not many of them) can no longer be returned, the worst thing is that the crew cannot be returned! Condolences to family and friends!
      1. +6
        29 January 2024 08: 42
        . How is it that a Russian plane is shot down by Western missiles in our own airspace!


        This begs another question: where was our air defense? Our plane was seen, the transponder was activated. Flying high. Have you seen the launch of an enemy air defense system? Don't understand who? Why didn't they protect the transport?
        1. +3
          29 January 2024 11: 56
          This begs another question: where was our air defense?

          In this case, I would not make claims against our air defense. To shoot down missiles from ground-based systems - I have never heard of this, the missile is high-speed and maneuvers with high overloads. And most importantly, there is very little time. It is generally unrealistic for a heavy transport aircraft to escape a missile.
          I would say: well done to our guardians of the sky for managing to turn around the second plane flying behind us.
          1. 0
            29 January 2024 12: 12
            . The rocket is high-speed and maneuvers with high overloads. And most importantly - there is very little time


            The fact that it is fast is understandable. Let's say about 1 km/s. What maneuvers is that the target was subsonic and clearly not very maneuverable. Why does the rocket wobble? It flew to its predetermined point with an almost constant speed and almost straight line. The time from launch to defeat is about two minutes. And how long does air defense take to respond? Targets are periodically shot down over Belgorod. What was the problem here? Are our complexes not working? But what about statements about the possibility of shooting down intercontinental ballistic missiles? The warhead speed there is clearly more than 1 km/s!
            1. +4
              29 January 2024 12: 36
              The time from launch to defeat is about two minutes.

              I looked at the data on Patriot. Max range for aerodynamic targets is 80 km. Those. at the limit, the flight time is no more than 80 seconds, the rocket diameter is 0,4 m, in the frontal projection the EPR is small, it is difficult to notice and in fact the reaction will take tens of seconds, much less than a minute. If you wait in full readiness for a known target to fly from point A to point B, then in theory you can shoot it down, but in practice someone else must recognize the target, make a decision to destroy it, give a command, and the crew must execute this command.. Seconds are too few for all this.
              1. +4
                29 January 2024 21: 46
                But this begs a completely different question for me. Who gave the order to transport prisoners on an Il-76 to an airfield located 40 km from the front line, knowing full well that the enemy had air defense systems capable of shooting him down? And why is he still wearing stripes and continues to command and not arrested for treason and sabotage?
        2. +4
          29 January 2024 19: 50
          [quote]Why didn’t they protect the transport?[/quote
          Because it is not possible to protect it with our air defense without the risk of hitting the plane with our own missile. An illustrative case with our downed IL-22 in Syria. To prevent our transporter from being shot down, it simply did not need to be sent to an airport located near the border of the enemy, who, as we all know, is capable of anything. We know what Bandera’s supporters can do, but the people who organized this flight, it turns out, didn’t even know. And these people bear the main responsibility for what happened. For some reason no one talks about this. And what prevented us from spending quite a lot of money on transporting prisoners by plane from Moscow to Belgorod, but bringing them by train or by bus? The Nazis probably did not intend to transport our prisoners for exchange by plane. Why did we need this?
  2. +6
    29 January 2024 04: 38
    I can’t believe that a foreigner was sitting at the control panel of this air defense system, it’s too risky. But at some stage the information about the cargo transported by Il could have been replaced, I can believe that... So, there are contradictions within “Vlada” and for me, let them at least gnaw at each other with their teeth, I just feel sorry for our crew and those accompanying us...
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +1
      29 January 2024 08: 30
      Well, why don't you believe it? It is quite realistic that white people do not trust the aborigines with complex technology.
      1. -3
        29 January 2024 09: 14
        Quote: U. Cheny
        It is quite realistic that white people do not trust the aborigines with complex technology.

        These “white people” were within the range of our artillery, and this could lead to their death...
    3. +5
      29 January 2024 08: 39
      In general I agree, except for the person sitting at the control panel. On the contrary, most likely it was a foreigner. These calculations are most likely “nomadic” i.e. which can act in isolation from the main forces and, accordingly, without safety nets.
      Accordingly, the calculations must be well prepared and coordinated. Such Ukrainian calculations, if any, are few and far between.
      Second, official Kyiv definitely did not need such a victory. I don’t even want to write about the fool at the control panel, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have been fighting for the second year and it’s an indicator of discipline.
      The third silence of Zaluzhny, on whom they hang this cat. He is in zugzwang, he cannot admit that this is his order, because... Most likely he did not give it to him and he also cannot say that foreign air defense crews are not particularly subordinate to him.
      1. -7
        29 January 2024 09: 40
        About the Brits.
        Will a rusty tanker accidentally sink in the Thames Estuary? Not the Russian Federation, but the Bahamian flag? Only Peter and Bashirov could fight in secret? They are storekeepers. Are there any big “navigators” or are there?
    4. +1
      29 January 2024 09: 11
      And I can’t believe that Banderlog has calculations prepared to work on such complex systems... And it’s scary to give an expensive thing into the hands of the Papuans. By the way, the paddling pools don’t have them either, due to the lack of Patriots in service... Just like the UK. That means only the USA.
      1. +9
        29 January 2024 09: 31
        Quote: paul3390
        And I can’t believe that Banderlogs have calculations prepared to work on such complex systems.

        Don’t underestimate the enemy; there are quite a lot of highly qualified air defense specialists there who are capable of mastering any equipment
        1. +2
          29 January 2024 09: 40
          Can you imagine how long it takes to retrain people for a completely different complex? It would be nice for our next generation, say from the S-300 to the S-400 - but then everything is completely different! Also, everything is in English - I don’t think that the software has been translated into English. And the complex itself is not a Stinger. Plus - its cost. Would you entrust such an expensive, complex contraption to the devil, who, at most, has completed a one-year course? And that's the best case scenario...
          1. +2
            29 January 2024 10: 10
            Quote: paul3390
            Can you imagine how long it takes to retrain people for a completely different complex?

            To train the crew to carry out launches, I don’t think that’s a lot. They didn’t bring the entire complex to the border, but only the launchers. So, also give a discount on this
            1. 0
              29 January 2024 12: 41
              What's the point? Do a mixed calculation - like advanced Yankees sit behind the radars, and Banderlog presses a button? In one battery? And why such difficulties?
          2. +2
            29 January 2024 12: 35
            In two years you can learn to shoot at a transport ship. This is not neurosurgery, and the button coder doesn’t need to know how the wires under the remote control are routed
        2. +1
          29 January 2024 21: 28
          Quote: svp67
          Quote: paul3390
          And I can’t believe that Banderlogs have calculations prepared to work on such complex systems.

          Don’t underestimate the enemy; there are quite a lot of highly qualified air defense specialists there who are capable of mastering any equipment

          Yes, it’s still strange to read here about some “Papuans”...
      2. +4
        29 January 2024 10: 04
        Quote: paul3390
        And I can’t believe that Banderlogs have calculations prepared to work on such complex systems..

        They are the same Russians, only brainwashed. And “the hands are standing” and the heads are working.
  3. +6
    29 January 2024 04: 43
    who benefits and who is to blame

    Of course, spreading conspiracy theories and guessing different versions is much more interesting than working on mistakes. Whether it will be on our side or not after what happened - that’s what’s really important and interesting!
  4. 0
    29 January 2024 04: 46
    their specialists at the air defense system and give such an order.
    It was leaked that the “roaming” air defense system had arrogant Saxons who were not subordinate to the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and they shot down the IL-76.
    1. -2
      29 January 2024 09: 42
      Degrees of love for your nenka and sacrifice are one thing, but professionalism is on the other side of the moon.
    2. 0
      29 January 2024 19: 38
      Like they have “free hunting”?
  5. +16
    29 January 2024 04: 53
    I'm sorry that Ukrainian families won't see theirs

    And to me - that Russian families will not see their own.
    1. +9
      29 January 2024 05: 17
      Quote: Comrade
      And to me - that Russian families will not see theirs

      And me too. It’s also a pity the loss of a transport plane, of which we don’t have many anyway.
      1. +3
        29 January 2024 05: 50
        Quote: Dutchman Michel
        Me too.

        Yes, the exchange did not take place.
        There will probably be no exchanges at all now, there is no one to negotiate with. These are real monsters.

        Quote: Dutchman Michel
        It’s also a pity the loss of a transport plane, of which we don’t have many anyway.

        Well, at least they managed to deploy the second one.
        The author proposed several versions; after the Ukrainians shot down the plane, I immediately came up with my own. It may sound unusual, but wasn't this whole prisoner exchange operation a decoy? The exchange for Kyiv is excellent, ideally only one and a half hundred APU personnel for two Il-76s with crews and accompanying persons.
      2. 0
        5 February 2024 12: 19
        It's a shame for the transporter! But most of all I feel sorry for our crew and accompanying people.... am
  6. -4
    29 January 2024 05: 47
    There were 2 planes, there were 2 missiles, but both were aimed at 1 plane. And they planned 2 missiles for 2 aircraft. Victory is possible.
    1. +4
      29 January 2024 10: 03
      There were 2 planes, there were 2 missiles, but both were aimed at 1 plane. And they planned 2 missiles for 2 aircraft. Victory is possible.

      If you don’t know, then it’s better to remain silent. This is standard work, when two missiles are fired at the same target for guaranteed destruction.
      1. +1
        30 January 2024 11: 21
        Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
        This is standard work, when two missiles are fired at the same target for guaranteed destruction.

        The "seventy-fifth" even had three "rocket" channels. On 07.10.1959/75/XNUMX, near Beijing, an SA-XNUMX overwhelmed the reconnaissance Canberra with a three-missile launch - this battle is considered the first use of an air defense system against a real combat target.
        Further, EMNIP, the standard for air defense systems became two missile channels for each target channel. S-125 - one target, two missiles. S-300 - 6 targets, 12 missiles.
  7. +17
    29 January 2024 05: 50
    I want to ask a question, what difference does it make who exactly was sitting in the air defense system? What difference does it make who gave the order, the Zeli gang or the British? This air defense system showed itself even before the IL-76. Remember the ambush on our fighters. If the air defense system worked on our territory and it needs to be done more than once conclusions, and not to speculate about who was in charge, who gave the order. Flights in the Belgorod, Kursk, and Bryansk regions will be under attack. This problem needs to be solved urgently. The rest of the time will tell.
    1. 0
      29 January 2024 12: 38
      Quote: Mikhail Maslov
      Flights in the Belgorod, Kursk, and Bryansk regions will be under attack.

      So it's been since the summer. But the command seems to have come up with nothing better than to stop flights where there were ambushes
  8. 0
    29 January 2024 06: 00
    Kyiv provocateurs played on the haste of our negotiators... who decided to quickly transfer prisoners to the exchange site at the appointed time.
    The haste of the Ukronazis with the exchange alone should have alerted the Russian participants in the exchange.
    However, again and again they relied on the decency of Bandera’s followers... the result is a pile of corpses.
    When will our authorities get rid of their holy naivety towards the opposite side.
    How can the Kremlin not understand that their plans for peaceful negotiations with murderers are paying with the lives of hundreds and thousands of people.
    1. +19
      29 January 2024 06: 03
      A separate question... this is the third successful ambush against our pilots by the Bandera air defense forces using Patriot or Iris... something wrong is happening in our kingdom with the reconnaissance and destruction of Kyiv’s air defense.
    2. +7
      29 January 2024 09: 09
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      When will our authorities get rid of holy naivety?

      That's not what it's called. We must say "unprofessionalism".
    3. +3
      29 January 2024 17: 41
      This is where the biggest problem lies. Authorities say the Ukrainian regime is "neo-Nazi" but say the door to negotiations is open. Yes, the door to negotiations is open to the Nazis. This is how trust is destroyed.
      1. +1
        29 January 2024 18: 06
        To all your post-war rulers, everyone else in the world who does not share their opinion and vision are Nazis, fascists, etc.
  9. +14
    29 January 2024 06: 06
    All versions have the right to life. But there is still a small question - why fly as many as two such planes to transport 65 people in one, 70 people in the other, and even 40 km from the LBS without cover? Can't 65+70 fit into one IL-76? And the fact that someone “agreed” on something is a so-so explanation; after all, we’ve been “agreeing” with them since I was 14.
    1. +14
      29 January 2024 06: 21
      Even in Afghanistan, transport planes were covered during landing and takeoff, but there was nothing from air defense except MANPADS. The A-50 and Il-22 carried out their combat missions without cover - were they also “smart”? Is this a crime or a mistake?
    2. +2
      29 January 2024 07: 55
      Quote: Vladimir M
      Can't 65+70 fit into one IL-76?

      They fit into the Tu-154 with a reserve. The last one was produced for the Ministry of Defense in 2013. Another thing is that there could be wounded bedridden people there.
    3. 0
      29 January 2024 23: 59
      The IL-76 can accommodate 250 people. I had the opportunity to fly from Taganrog to Vladivostok with so many people, transporting conscripts. For maximum passenger capacity, the transport vehicle has a second floor of seats.
  10. +4
    29 January 2024 06: 25
    I listened to many Ukrainian experts on this topic... everyone agrees that the missiles came from the Ukrainian side. Moreover, it is not beneficial to anyone except the British, and their handwriting. Before this, the Johnsons and Sunaks wandered around to hold meetings with their slaves, so... Well, Chaplyga, who listened to the meeting of the UN Security Council, was surprised by our toothlessness and unpreparedness. As I understand it, our statements are without evidence...
  11. -7
    29 January 2024 06: 48
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    A separate question... this is the third successful ambush against our pilots by the Bandera air defense forces using Patriot or Iris... something wrong is happening in our kingdom with the reconnaissance and destruction of Kyiv’s air defense.

    Or something is wrong with your information.
  12. +1
    29 January 2024 07: 39
    According to the method of application, IRIS-T is more suitable. It is more mobile than Patriot

    IrisT is not very similar in range.
    IMHO, the Armed Forces of Ukraine “remembered” the “ambush” method from the times of Vietnam: a long-range air defense system “in a truncated form”, with one launcher, and when “leaving”, do not waste time on winding down the “cable management”.

    Options: SAMPT/MAMBA - very unlikely, he is the only one in the Armed Forces of Ukraine and can “work on ballistics”. Patriot or S300 with one launcher - most likely. FrankenSAM "S300 with Patriot missiles" - very likely and "not a pity." There are S200s - but in what form they remained in the Ukrainian Armed Forces is unclear - so the S200s are completely unlikely.

    Considering the events of recent months, it probably makes sense to draw conclusions in the form of a restricted zone for individual aircraft, or something like “+200 km from the LBS.”
    1. 0
      30 January 2024 00: 26
      Quote: Wildcat
      FrankenSAM "S300 with Patriot missiles" - very likely and "not a pity."

      How is this technical?
      1. 0
        30 January 2024 02: 58
        a hybrid that combines US-made Patriot missiles, presumably with Soviet radars..... a hybrid firing the radar-guided Patriot would have the longest range: 90 miles or so.
        https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/01/17/ukraines-frankensams-are-soviet-launchers-firing-american-missiles-they-just-scored-their-first-kill/
        I’m waiting for details on how this could be done technically in Bongo’s new article in the series “Guided missiles ..... in the Ukrainian Frankenstein air defense systems” any day now on Military Review.
  13. -3
    29 January 2024 07: 42
    Actually, with all due respect, Roman, all this is obvious. The benefit in what is happening has been visible for a long time. This is to those who unleashed this tragedy.
    1. -3
      29 January 2024 07: 51
      I’ll add to those who reformatted the Russians into VNA and pushed us into a bloody fight
      1. +6
        29 January 2024 10: 41
        I’ll add to those who reformatted the Russians into VNA and pushed us into a bloody fight


        Why did you decide that the Russians were reformatted only on that side? Our jingoistic patriots are a mirror image of the Maydowns.
        1. 0
          29 January 2024 10: 50
          Well, our jingoistic patriots are a different story. They have always been there. Even when everything goes wrong. The main thing is to throw your hats higher and have bigger blinders on your eyes.
  14. +5
    29 January 2024 08: 28
    Very interesting, but by the same token Papua New Guinea doesn’t care about the Ukrainians, so maybe it’s them? The conclusions are just made up.
  15. +1
    29 January 2024 09: 06
    If in the countries governing Ukraine a decision was made to disrupt the negotiation process through such a provocation,
    What is this even about? What kind of negotiation process is this?!
  16. -3
    29 January 2024 09: 08
    I suspect that they were aiming at several birds with one stone. Firstly, this is discrediting someone from the top of the Ukrainian government. Who I think should become clear soon. Secondly, knocking out our transport aviation, which has already had enough of it. And here the main interest is not so much of Ukraine as of NATO. Thirdly, another demonstration of the West’s attitude to our concerns and red lines.
  17. +7
    29 January 2024 09: 18
    All this is still guesswork, judging by the article.
    Who benefits?
    First of all, the media, you can write and write... alas.
    Russia? No. Lose pilots and plane.
    Ukraine? No. PR losses and losses of surviving fighters.
    I feel sorry for people ...

    But remembering how, at the slightest aggravation, planes are foolishly lost (they are also regularly lost in accidents, we don’t count these) - the Bryansk air incident, Mriya near Kiev, Boeing in Iran, planes in Syria, a bunch of planes in the LDPR to the Northern Military District, etc. - IMHO, it's just an ordinary mess.

    It is more important to answer (which is unlikely to be said honestly and truthfully) - whether the air and ground corridor for transporting prisoners was agreed upon by both sides or not. So far I have seen in the notes a description of the words “persons” (briefly) - “they (the Armed Forces of Ukraine) themselves should have guessed”
  18. -5
    29 January 2024 10: 04
    The Ukrainian Armed Forces, like a hunted animal, bites and gnaws at whatever it can reach. Having shot down the plane, they exchanged 9 of ours and the aircraft for 65 of their soldiers and consider that this is a good size. Perhaps the soldiers who were processed as prisoners are of no value to them.
  19. +2
    29 January 2024 10: 12
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    Separate question...the third successful ambush against our flyers by the Bandera air defense forces using Patriot or Iris... something wrong is happening in our kingdom with the reconnaissance and destruction of the air defense of Kyiv.

    no, it’s already the fourth...
    Bryansk, Kherson, the Sea of ​​Azov, and now Belgorod
  20. 0
    29 January 2024 10: 28
    "because in the very first minutes the Ministry of Defense joyfully reported on the downing of Il-76.."
    Really? The official Ministry of Education and Science remained silent for quite a long time. But the reaction of our side, on the contrary, surprised us with its efficiency, which had not been particularly observed before. For me, it is most plausible, given the subsequent actions, that the Il-76 was shot down by a Ukrainian air defense missile crew that was waiting for another cargo or, in general, tactical aircraft, but they could not get past such a big target
  21. -1
    29 January 2024 10: 38
    First of all, who is to blame?
    You can build different versions, refer to agreements, but this will only create entities.
    We must proceed from the fact that there is a war going on, whatever you call it, and therefore the enemy will take retaliatory actions. Therefore, at the headquarters, if there are military people there, and not businessmen in uniform with big stars, all operational information should be present on the maps, including the zones of POSSIBLE destruction by enemy air defense systems.
    And if it was so urgent to deliver the same prisoners to the Belgorod airfield by means of a military air transport aircraft, then no matter what the politicians agreed on, the commanders were obliged to plan the operation, using a detachment of forces from tactical aviation both for electronic warfare and the rapid destruction of identified targets posing a potential threat .
    That is, radio reconnaissance, jamming, suppression, destruction.
    Besides, somehow everyone forgot about the crew.
    The commander, co-pilot, navigator, these are persons whose job responsibilities are responsible for working with maps. And not only study the route itself, but also the tactical situation. After which the crew inevitably had questions for the commanders setting the task.
    And since you decided to fly, then don’t pretend to be sheep to the slaughter until the end. Make a decision, fall to the limit, under the radio horizon, to the point that you will knock the antennas off the roofs. But this way there will be at least a chance to survive.

    And yes, regarding the benefits, here is the information on board.

    The plane is quite old, already decommissioned, especially since being in storage does not have the best impact on its service life.
    In addition, there are photos on the Internet where he is either RA or RF, that is, either state or private registration. And what it was current is unknown.
    1. 0
      30 January 2024 00: 23
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      And if there was such an urge to deliver the same prisoners to the Belgorod airfield by means of a BTA plane, then no matter what the politicians agreed on there...

      Delivered more than once.
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      and commanders were required to plan the operation, using a detachment of forces from tactical aviation both for electronic warfare and for the prompt destruction of identified targets posing a potential threat.
      That is, radio reconnaissance, jamming, suppression, destruction.

      If you don't know where the ambush SAM system is, it's impossible to plan for it all.
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      And since you decided to fly, then don’t pretend to be sheep to the slaughter until the end. Make a decision, fall to the limit, under the radio horizon, to the point that you will knock the antennas off the roofs.

      They can only fly in a designated corridor and time slot. Otherwise they will be shot down by their air defense.
      1. 0
        30 January 2024 00: 31
        Delivered more than once.


        And what? I was just lucky.

        If you don't know where the ambush SAM system is, it's impossible to plan for it all.


        They always start from the boundaries of the probable damage zone.

        They can only fly in a designated corridor and time slot. Otherwise they will be shot down by their air defense.


        Will you tell me how they fly on international flights and flights of the first category, as well as outside of them? lol
  22. -2
    29 January 2024 10: 56
    There are other versions - but we may not know the truth. In terms of consequences, it’s worse than the 404th, another downed civilian plane, this time a transport one. They have a whole collection - Tu-154 of Siberia, Malaysian Boeing 777, now Il-76. Truly a gorilla with a grenade, there’s no other way to put it.
  23. 0
    29 January 2024 12: 00
    I think everything is simpler there. The main intelligence service is American. They give target designation. The target description indicates that the cargo is missiles. The ukrov have no way of finding out what the cargo is. They press the button and gleefully report defeat. No one began to compare the facts that prisoners of war were flying at the same time and in the same direction. And when our people reported the details, the ukry crap themselves.
    Now questions arise for our people: are we so rich that we take prisoners on plane rides? Are we so confident in safety that we fly planes without escort cover and air defense?
  24. -1
    29 January 2024 12: 51
    I'll give you another version:
    The order for destruction was given by Zeliboba. In the Airplane there were the remnants of the Azov battalion, perhaps the most inapplicable opponents of the clown in the country. This is a real force and not only political. Remember how they called him the clown.
    Ze clears the space from political opponents. Everyone who was even slightly against it has already been cleared out. Remember the apposition media, politicians, personalities, everyone who was against is already far away
  25. +1
    29 January 2024 13: 29
    with the NATO members everything is clear, as with the Ukrainians, but what about our hands, the leaders, where our heads were, because they knew that they couldn’t trust the Ukrainians, but they sent a plane for an exchange. who will bear responsibility for this?
  26. +1
    29 January 2024 19: 23
    The author does not write “in Ukraine”, this is Ukrainian in their current interpretation of their “greatness”.
    Write (and say) “in Ukraine”.
    “IN Ukraine”, that’s what they always said, even in Ukraine. Even the poet T.G. Shevchenko...
    The preposition “in” in relation to the name of the country was introduced by the Ukrainians relatively recently, so that it would not be like ours, and you are repeating after them.
  27. 0
    29 January 2024 20: 14
    Quote: paul3390
    Can you imagine how long it takes to retrain people for a completely different complex?

    As secretary Verochka said: You can teach a hare to smoke.
    Ukrofashists are no different, they are still people. More precisely, non-humans in human form.
  28. +2
    29 January 2024 20: 40
    There is probably only one true version - the Russian Aerospace Forces. A recent example: two reconnaissance officers were killed in the Sea of ​​Azov (who can be counted on one hand), and before that how many planes were lost due to negligence? You look at it all as if some kind of exercise is going on, and not combat operations. Two heavy aircraft are flying into the zone of destruction of enemy air defense - and as if this was the way it should be, the theories began to fly. There is no point in blaming the mirror if your face is crooked.
    1. 0
      30 January 2024 00: 22
      I am also surprised by the still unabated carelessness (negligence reaching the point of committing murder) of the command. There is a war going on, no one can be trusted 100%, including the crew commander who could reduce the risk of being shot down. In the video of the moment the plane was hit, its height was about a kilometer. What prevented you from driving at low altitude? Below is the territory of Russia, there are no mountains along the route. They would have walked no higher than two hundred meters and no Western air defense system would have seen him...
  29. 0
    29 January 2024 21: 25
    The author’s reasoning is certainly interesting, but the site has already asked the question: where is the reliable information that “that” side was warned about this transportation of prisoners of war?
  30. 0
    31 January 2024 17: 19
    For some reason, no one pays attention to the fact that the missile attack was announced at 11:10, and the plane was shot down at 11:40.
    This is not my reasoning, this is from the Archstrategist’s video.
    Then another version appears that the plane was simply a carpet according to plan - it could not land on time and was shot down by mistake, in the expectation that it was already flying back because... The air defense system of the Armed Forces of Ukraine cannot stand and scan the sky for an hour, they turned on for 10 minutes, found the mark, sent missiles and immediately folded, there was no time to reason. There was a drone attack from the Ukrainian Armed Forces and they confused themselves and dug a hole.
  31. 0
    21 February 2024 14: 44
    In feature films they showed that cargo planes are usually accompanied by fighters and when landing by helicopters... and remember about the second plane, because there is a possibility that they switched places in the air. In general, there are many questions and few answers
  32. 0
    4 May 2024 00: 23
    Isn't it time to equip transport ships with ejection seats for the crew?