Mannlicher and his rifles: they were the first

54
Mannlicher and his rifles: they were the first


And now there are the last ones,
who will be the first
and there are the first
which will be the last.

Gospel of Luke 13:30

People and weapon. In the previous article - the first in a series of articles about von Mannlicher rifles, we talked about his biography. But our story today will be devoted to his rifles, the very first and little-known ones, primarily because they were not accepted for service and did not go into mass production. However, their design speaks of the remarkable intelligence of this designer and...



These were the steps along which he walked step by step towards his success.

Mannlicher's first rifle was the Model 1880, created by him in 1880 for the standard 11-mm (.433 caliber) Austrian army cartridge designed by Joseph Werndl. The cartridge was loaded with a charge of black smoky powder and a lead bullet. The initial bullet speed was 445 m/sec.


Rifle of Josef Werndl (1831–1889) and Karel Holub (1830–1903) model 1877 chambered for 11,15x58 mm R. Army Museum. Stockholm

At the time of the introduction of this first Mannlicher repeating rifle, the Austrian army officially had in service the Werndl Model 1867 single-shot bolt action rifle, but the successful use of repeating weapons in the American Civil War and the Russo-Turkish War demonstrated the need for repeating weapons for the army. Von Mannlicher also recognized the disadvantages of the weapon, which had to be reloaded after each shot.

And then everything turned out the way it often happens, according to the saying that doing something simple is very difficult, but doing something difficult is very simple. So he made a very complex and expensive rifle, the main advantage of which was the large magazine capacity. In addition, it was quite bulky, and had a too thick neck of the butt. However, it was this design that marked the beginning of his entire brilliant career.

The main feature of this rifle was its magazine, which consisted of three cartridge tubes with springs. By this time, the Hotchkiss rifle of the 1870 model had already been created with exactly the same tubular magazine for 6 rounds in the butt and a longitudinal sliding bolt. But Mannlicher installed not just one such tube on his rifle, but three at once.


11x42R Werndl welt cartridge for the Austrian M.67 and M.73 rifles. Contemporary photography

All these three tubes are connected to each other using a conical coupling, which rotates on a common longitudinal axis. And it rotates due to the fact that on its outer surface there are zigzag grooves connected into one common one. When the bolt is pulled back, the direct pull on the bolt causes the clutch to rotate, driven by a pin that fits into these grooves and is connected to the bolt.


Improved cartridge 11x42RG. Contemporary photography

Thus, each back and forth movement of the bolt rotates the magazine sleeve 60 degrees, so that when the bolt is open, one of the magazine tubes is always on top. Only the first cartridge from this tube, which is in the uppermost position, can be moved forward by the tubular spring. And when the bolt starts to move forward, it picks up this cartridge and pushes it into the chamber. The simultaneous feeding of two cartridges is eliminated due to the cut-off on the bolt.


Mannlicher rifle with three magazine tubes in the butt, model 1880. Drawing by A. Sheps

The presence of three tubes for cartridges at once allowed this rifle to have a magazine with a phenomenal capacity of 18 rounds, which were loaded into it one at a time, through a hole on the receiver in front of the trigger guard. Of course, this was not very convenient. After all, you also had to work the shutter in order to replace the tube, already filled with cartridges, with an empty one. The thick neck of the butt was awkward to grip. Well, of course, it was simply impossible to fight with such a rifle, striking with the butt.


Hotchkiss rifle with a magazine in the butt of the model 1877.

This Mannlicher rifle was tested in England at the Enfield Arsenal, but was rejected. The military also rejected its second sample, created for the Mauser cartridge of the 1871 model.


Rifle of American gunsmiths Chaffee and Reis 1882. The magazine is also in the butt, but the feed is no longer spring-loaded, but rack-and-pinion. Then they were afraid of accidental ignition of cartridge primers in the magazine due to concussion and impacts and came up with a solution in which the cartridges did not come into contact with each other. The rifle underwent year-long testing in the army along with the Remington-Lee and Winchester-Hotchkiss rifles and took last place in them. The complaints were as follows: it was complicated, the stock was not strong enough, the trigger was heavy, although the accuracy was considered excellent!

The failure with the repeating rifle did not stop Mannlicher, and a year later, in 1881, he proposed another example of a “magazine” with a middle, and removable, magazine of the Lee system. The cartridge was the same, but the action was greatly simplified and improved, and the truly notable feature of this design was the detachable box magazine, which allowed rapid loading with spare magazines inserted through a hole in the bottom of the receiver.

The single-row box magazine was made of sheet steel and had inclined walls. The supply of cartridges to the dispensing line was carried out by a pusher and a spiral spring, unusual for such designs, located in the rear of the box.

The side walls at the rear were slightly higher and curved to overlap the topmost cartridge. That is, they formed guide edges and prevented misfeeding of cartridges. In fact, it was a real modern magazine, identical to the modern loading system for standard pistol magazines.

This system, combined with an extractor located on the right side of the bolt, served to prevent "double loading" or jamming due to two cartridges moving at the same time. When the magazine was not in use, a spring-loaded bottom plate on the rifle covered the magazine opening to keep dirt out. Having inserted the magazine from below, the shooter pressed this plate, and it no longer interfered. It is difficult to say what reasons prevented its adoption, but, be that as it may, it did not end up in the army.


Mannlicher rifle with detachable magazine 1881. Drawing by A. Sheps

The third rifle, model 1882, which we will talk about today, was also a magazine rifle, but had an under-barrel magazine similar to the magazines of the Winchester rifles and the Lebel rifle of 1886. By the way, the adoption by the French of this rifle just shows that this direction was relevant in those years.

Mannlicher's store in this case was no different from similar stores. It consisted of a tube running into the forend under the barrel, which contained a coil spring with a pusher at its rear end. The cartridges were inserted through the breech and pushed into the tube to compress the spring. The point of each bullet after the first necessarily rested on the primer of the previous cartridge, but since the cartridges used were standard .433 caliber with a fairly round “nose”, the danger of an accidental discharge was minimized.

The bolt was a further simplified modification of Mannlicher's design; but the projections were still far behind the bolt body. A spoon-shaped feeder rotated in the receiver under the bolt. When the bolt was pulled back, a protrusion at the bottom of the bolt head pressed on the feed lever, and it raised the cartridge on it to the feed line.


Mannlicher rifle with under-barrel magazine, 1882. Drawing by A. Sheps

In this case, the supply of the next cartridge to the receiver was blocked. When the bolt moved forward, it fed a cartridge from the feeder into the chamber, which then dropped down, after which the magazine lock was removed, and the next cartridge entered the feeder.

In the best traditions of that time, the rifle was designed to turn off the supply of cartridges from the magazine in order to use the rifle as a single-shot rifle and save cartridges. The store in this case remained in reserve in case of emergency. In a modified form, this type of feed system was used in all later bolt-action rifles with a tubular magazine design.

It should be noted that although the design of the under-barrel tubular magazine itself affects the balancing of the weapon and requires certain skills from the shooter, it is very convenient in handling cartridges with rims, since it prevents the cartridges from adhering to each other.

Now the question is, why did you suddenly decide to place magazines in the butt?

It started with a Spencer carbine, and then it went on and on...

It is possible that placing the magazine in the butt was an attempt to rationally use its significant volume, while remaining within the dimensions of the stock. The same applies to long under-barrel magazines.

Apparently, the designers, due to the inertia of thinking, believed that the stock and butt should remain in the very forms that existed initially and reached maximum perfection. And nothing should have disturbed the purity of their contours, so they tried to hide their multi-charge magazines inside the tree...

To be continued ...
54 comments
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  1. +1
    28 January 2024 05: 10
    Quote: Vyacheslav Shpakovsky

    This Mannlicher rifle was tested in England

    Why was the Austrian rifle tested in Austria?
    1. +13
      28 January 2024 05: 37
      For the same reasons why we ended up with the Brendan & Smith & Wesson rifle.
      Britain was the only constantly warring power at the end of the century before last, which led to a natural revision of various colonial conflicts, weapons competitions, etc.
      It is not surprising that successful designers tried to do their business in Foggy Albion. Some people succeeded. For example, Kh. Maxim has a machine gun of the same name.
      Thank you to Vyacheslav Olegovich for continuing the series, good morning comrades!
      1. +2
        28 January 2024 06: 05
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        It is not surprising that successful designers tried to do their business in Foggy Albion

        Understand. Did you initially want to offer this rifle to the British?
  2. +5
    28 January 2024 05: 27
    Vyacheslav hi , but what would we do without it?
    In the regiment they spoke about him with ridicule: “Well, he’s ruined his manlicherovin!”
    1. +7
      28 January 2024 05: 57
      novel66,
      The colonel was so incredibly stupid that the officers, seeing him from afar, turned aside wink
      1. +6
        28 January 2024 06: 04
        Another great quote
        Don't be afraid, profos, of death,
        Kaput will not come to you.
        Devils will follow you
        And they will take you alive.
  3. +8
    28 January 2024 05: 39
    Vyacheslav Olegovich
    again he spread his manlicherovin
    (Ya. Hasek)

    wassat drinks
  4. +6
    28 January 2024 05: 47
    Good morning, Vyacheslav! hi
    Thank you from me and from Ferdinand Mannlicher! good drinks
    1. +3
      28 January 2024 08: 29
      Quote: Sea Cat
      Good morning, Vyacheslav! hi
      Thank you from me and from Ferdinand Mannlicher! good drinks

      Good morning Vlad! hi
      From me too! hi drinks
      1. +4
        28 January 2024 10: 18
        Thank you, Artyom!
        But my name is Kostya. smile drinks
        1. +2
          28 January 2024 13: 44
          Quote: Sea Cat
          Thank you, Artyom!
          But my name is Kostya. smile drinks

          You're right. Sorry, I confused you with Vlad (Kote pane Kokhanka). Yes
          1. +1
            29 January 2024 04: 23
            It's OK. The main thing is friendship.))
            1. +1
              29 January 2024 07: 00
              Quote: Sea Cat
              It's OK. The main thing is friendship.))

              It is most important! drinks
  5. +5
    28 January 2024 06: 01
    Vyacheslav hi As always, thank you very much for your stories or articles about weapons! Write interestingly, and the topic itself is also interesting!!! good
  6. +3
    28 January 2024 06: 07
    By the way, wasn’t it Mannlicher’s who had the first spiral shutter, it twitched backwards - forwards without turning, the prototype of machine guns
    1. +7
      28 January 2024 06: 58
      Quote: novel xnumx
      was the first spiral valve

      This will be discussed. Do not hurry...
      1. +1
        28 January 2024 10: 52
        We look forward to it... With great anticipation
        1. +5
          28 January 2024 12: 00
          Quote: novel xnumx
          With great impatience

          The artist draws. It's not fast...
    2. 0
      28 January 2024 09: 17
      Yes, the Enfield with its 60-degree shutter (emnip, correct me) was simpler and provided a huge rate of fire for those times... so the Mannlicher with its direct action did not catch on. Not as an advertisement - a good analysis. Part 2 has already been released on the channel. This is not a demolition stupid ranch, where the antics and how many packs of condoms will break through laughing
      1. +2
        28 January 2024 10: 57
        Yes, the Enfield with its 60-degree shutter (emnip, correct me) was simpler and provided a huge rate of fire for those times... so the Mannlicher with its direct action did not catch on.

        Try not to write about what you don't understand. What's the point of Lee-Enfield?
        The article talks about a completely different weapon. The tests mentioned in the article involved a Remington-Lee rifle, which had exactly the same longitudinally sliding rotating bolt with two lugs as the competing Mannlicher rifle. With two lugs, the bolt rotates 90 degrees. That is, the bolt groups of the rifles were equivalent. Remington-Lee's advantage was determined by its store.
        1. +1
          28 January 2024 11: 10
          Well, as always, you need to write what exactly you know about everything, from the big bang to quantum gravity. I didn’t study the history of weapons and didn’t hold a candle to the development. Of all this, I only shot from a pug and an infantry 98 Mauser (I mean bolt-action repeating rifles from the beginning of the last century).
          Quote: Dekabrist
          The article talks about a completely different weapon

          So I never wrote about it! why do you think so? In general, I meant that all these minlichers with a straight stroke of the handle and a rotary blade did not catch on and that’s it. You yourself know the reason - the complexity of manufacturing + high sensitivity to pollution. But this is my subjective opinion. as I wrote above, I only shot with classics.
          Z.Y. I really dream of touching it..... now I’ll just re-issue my passport... in the summer on vacation I plan to go to this guy in Prague (I haven’t been there for a long time). Yes, it will be very expensive, but she wants it like that - she will crush any toad lol
          1. +1
            28 January 2024 11: 57
            Quote from Enceladus
            In the summer, on vacation, I plan to go to Prague with this guy (I haven’t been there for a long time).

            Alexey, I'm playing with you! I'm sucking up to the photos...
            1. +2
              28 January 2024 12: 07
              I’ll try, of course, Vyacheslav! drinks
              I just have a problem that letters are available with subscriptions. They really gave me a foreign passport in 2011 (well, it’s clear how) when the main 10-year secret ended (well, they even knocked off a couple of years there). But in our police department and military commission a generation has already changed... and right now it’s already a bit difficult. In fact, in September my passport was taken away and my subscription was sealed.... due to someone’s stupidity, my police department said “there is no such thing.” I had to call... they eventually apologized. Therefore, right now I will fight over the border... the day before yesterday I was sent away to the RG, you know what unit. There is an option, of course, in Akhmat, I already talked yesterday... they gave me contacts, I’ll talk to PN, they seem to have said that they don’t have such requirements. And he himself wrote about his father more than once, and there are connections from above feel)
              There, too, in one cart he bombed.... they started laughing at me like, what are you rubbing in here.... then he invited one person - have fun.... everyone eventually became depressed and quiet laughing lol )
              1. +2
                28 January 2024 12: 17
                Quote from Enceladus
                and fell silent

                Good luck to you!
                1. +3
                  28 January 2024 12: 21
                  Well, let's see what kind of guy he wrote in a personal message wink
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Good luck to you!

                  We will try! drinks soldier But I really was bombarded for almost 2 days that I only went to bed this morning, and that was after I drank Gabopentine. laughing
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          2. +2
            28 January 2024 13: 22
            Well, as always, you need to write that you know everything specifically

            With your command of the language, there is no need to write anything about me at all.
            It’s better to try hiring a tutor, so that he can help you learn to clearly express your thoughts and write without mistakes.
            By the way, Moska is a dog, Svetka is a female name, and Simka is a SIM card. These words have nothing to do with weapons.
            1. +1
              28 January 2024 13: 28
              Quote: Dekabrist
              By the way, Moska is a dog, Svetka is a female name, and Simka is a SIM card. These words have nothing to do with weapons

              And the Decembrists were either shot or sent into exile. good wassat
              1. +2
                28 January 2024 13: 36
                Your history is just as bad as your weapons.
                The Decembrists were not shot. According to the court verdict, five were to be quartered and thirty-one were to have their heads cut off. The king pardoned the condemned. Those sentenced to quartering were hanged, and instead of beheading, they were sent to hard labor.
                1. -3
                  28 January 2024 13: 39
                  Quote: Dekabrist
                  Your history is just as bad

                  Well, sorry... I didn't stock up on beads. request
                  1. 0
                    28 January 2024 13: 53
                    Well, sorry... I didn’t stock up on beads

                    Take advantage of the moment, collect.
                    1. +3
                      28 January 2024 15: 08
                      Well, if you come down to the minuses. I will reciprocate (c) Although I have never asked you personally. laughing
              2. +2
                28 January 2024 14: 21
                Decembrist is such a flower
                1. +2
                  28 January 2024 15: 28
                  Quote: novel xnumx
                  Decembrist is such a flower

                  The worst thing is a submarine!
                  1. +1
                    28 January 2024 17: 13
                    Worse is a submarine[b][/b]

                    Horror !!!
                  2. +2
                    28 January 2024 19: 31
                    The worst thing is a submarine!
                    Yes, it’s much worse - the first series, 6 copies were delivered in 1929 (Decembrist, People's Volunteer, Red Guard, Revolutionary, Spartacist, Jacobin) We learned how to do it. In the end, we still learned.
                    1. +2
                      28 January 2024 20: 37
                      In the end, we still learned

                      Gold words!!! hi
            2. +1
              28 January 2024 15: 16
              Quote: Dekabrist
              With your command of the language, there is no need to write anything about me at all.

              I have a good command of The Master and Margarita; I received and won the essay 5/5+ in a competition at the regional level in 97.
              Well, this is how I write floridly. Lots of metaphors and stuff. I also write poetry and according to reviews they are not bad. If Colleagues have not yet understood... then this is your potential. What should I do with you - challenge you to a duel? laughing I didn’t go to the mountains, shoulder to shoulder either.... so I can’t say anything request lol
              1. +4
                28 January 2024 15: 30
                Well, if it “won”, and even “floridly”, then my potential really gives up. This is already some kind of parallel reality.
                And apparently someone squeezed the minus out of amazement at your outpourings. However, I understand him. In order not to disappoint you, I will put the second one.
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        2. 0
          28 January 2024 11: 25
          ZY If we consider it in the area to be domestic, but already automatic... I held Svetka in my hands, but alas, I didn’t get to shoot (I wrote in one topic, she was eventually sent to the police department for examination from our police department). But from Simka, yes - I really liked it good By the way, they offer me the emasculated one at a very tempting price through friends. Those. not high-tech crafts, but really emasculated from the old issue with all the papers (but still, even with such a price tag, it bites crying ).
  7. +2
    28 January 2024 07: 31
    placing the magazine in the butt was an attempt to rationally use its significant volume, while remaining within the dimensions of the stock
    Obviously so, and even at that time stores in the fore-end, and later in the butt, were common. As I understand, in the continuation of the article the conversation will be about the more well-known Mannlicher rifle model 1895, which was in service with Austria-Hungary and was actively used in WW1. But unfortunately it was difficult to manufacture and as a result it was replaced by a German one.
    1. +3
      28 January 2024 08: 38
      Quote: rotmistr60
      As I understand, in the continuation of the article the conversation will focus on the more well-known Mannlicher rifle model 1895,

      There were still a bunch of rifles there before her!
  8. +4
    28 January 2024 08: 36
    Apparently he was a stubborn guy, since he didn’t break down due to failures, but created an excellent engineering school. In fact, the company makes excellent rifles. And these are not empty words; I myself have a rifle from this company. My Scout in 308 caliber is just a doll.
  9. +2
    28 January 2024 11: 37
    Cartridges in a tubular magazine in the buttstock are hardly a viable design, very difficult to manufacture, so they didn’t catch on (this is the first time I’ve ever seen something like this).
    The cartridges are in a tubular magazine under the barrel - the reloading method probably plays a big role here. Like the Winchester or modern pump-action shotguns, that’s one thing, but the classic sliding bolt, apparently, didn’t work very well in this design, and the design didn’t catch on either.
    Everything is in my purely personal opinion as an amateur.
    1. +1
      28 January 2024 11: 59
      Quote: Roman Efremov
      hardly a viable design, very difficult to manufacture, so it didn’t catch on

      It took root on the Winchester rifle 1902-1907. It was about them in VO. My material. But for a long time.
      1. +2
        28 January 2024 13: 44
        I understand that I have taken root somewhere. But “survivability” cannot be compared with the classical design.
    2. +3
      28 January 2024 13: 48
      and the classic sliding bolt, apparently, did not work very well in this design, the design also did not take root.

      Vetterli Rifle, Remington-Keene M1878, Jarmann Model 1884, Mauser Model 1871/84, Hotchkiss M1879, Lee-actioned Model 1879, Kvashnevsky rifle 1883 - these are all bolt-action rifles with an under-barrel magazine.
  10. +4
    28 January 2024 18: 39
    Mr. Mannlicher once again confirms his reputation as a great entertainer and dreamer. What's particularly impressive this time is its side-spring magazine. There is no doubt that this design will jam at every opportunity. I wonder what prevented Mr. Mannlicher from placing the spring in the middle, balancing the structure, as any normal engineer would have done?
  11. +4
    28 January 2024 19: 59
    1. Mannlicher’s first rifle was a rifle model 1878. .and not model 1880.
    1. +1
      1 February 2024 09: 03
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      1. Mannlicher’s first rifle was a rifle model 1878. .and not model 1880.

      This is what it says in the book published in 1946.
  12. +3
    28 January 2024 20: 23
    2. The first self-loading (automatic) Mannlicher rifle mod. 1885 (Experienced!)
    1. +2
      1 February 2024 09: 04
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      (Experienced!)

      It will be about her.
  13. +3
    28 January 2024 20: 30
    3. Surrogate “machine guns” WW1 (1915?) using Mannlicher rifles model 1888/90, model 1895
    1. +2
      1 February 2024 09: 05
      The Shmetlov machine guns in Port Arthur are from the same place.
  14. +1
    1 February 2024 13: 43
    Quote from Enceladus
    Well, show me the test tube... request
    Z.Y, this is not a correct comment

    Just the height of wit, just look at the VO rules, point “z”. And tell the comrades how you “fought” in Gadary.