Waiting for the Helios-RLD UAV: ​​for protection against low-flying air attack weapons

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Waiting for the Helios-RLD UAV: ​​for protection against low-flying air attack weapons

In the material published on December 11 this year Ukraine goes on the defensive: consequences, risks, opportunities The author examined the threats that may result from the refusal of the Ukrainian Armed Forces (AFU) to carry out a ground offensive and transition to strategic defense:

It can be assumed that after the transition to strategic defense, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will concentrate their efforts on causing maximum damage to the Russian Armed Forces, as well as the infrastructure of our country, while the priority goal will be the image component - in the absence of success in seizing territories, it is necessary to show what “terrible” blows are being delivered to Russia. Nevertheless, these strikes can indeed carry significant risks for Russia in general and the Russian Armed Forces in particular.

The Ukrainian Armed Forces will receive coordinates of targets from NATO countries, as well as from a sympathetic intelligence network in the territory controlled by the Russian Federation BC.

Attacks on infrastructure located in the interior of the country will intensify, primarily on bridges, including the Crimean Bridge, railways, power plants and power lines, and fuel storage facilities. Attacks on Black Sea ships will continue and intensify fleet VfM of the Russian Federation stationed in naval bases (naval bases), as well as on airplanes and helicopters at airfields. The number of strikes against critical industrial enterprises, including defense industry enterprises, will increase.



The targets will be the objects that are most complex and expensive to restore - strategic aircraft aviation, carriers of the Kinzhal complex missiles, most modern surface ships and submarines of the Russian Navy.

To carry out strikes, cruise missiles (CM) of the Storm Shadow / Scalp-EG type already supplied by Western countries will be used, and subsequently, possibly, American JASSM-ER cruise missiles with a flight range of up to 1000 kilometers.


And on December 26, Feodosia was struck by a Storm Shadow cruise missile (CL), damaging the large landing ship (BDK) Novocherkassk of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Navy. The extent of damage to the ship is unknown at the time of writing this article. According to Ukrainian sources, the large landing ship was completely destroyed. According to some Russian sources, the ship received minor damage. Again, according to unconfirmed reports, the Novocherkassk landing craft transported a large batch of kamikaze unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) of the Geran-2 type.


BDK "Novocherkassk" project 775 (775/II) in the port of Novorossiysk. Photo by Alexander Veprev

A video recording of the explosion is circulating online, for the filming of which its creators apparently face criminal liability. The explosion was clearly powerful, but what exactly exploded is not yet clear.

This tragic event is another slap in the face to skeptics who stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the fact that the best way to combat enemy surface ships and submarines is to destroy them while they are in the naval base, while, fortunately, we have not yet seen truly massive attacks.

One way or another, reality confirms previously made predictions - in the absence of success in the ground offensive, the Ukrainian Armed Forces will increase the number and quality of strikes delivered by high-precision weapons long-range to objects on the territory of the Russian Federation.

This means that it is necessary to systematically increase the effectiveness of countermeasures against Ukrainian long-range precision weapons, and today we will talk about detecting low-flying targets such as “cruise missiles” and “kamikaze UAVs.”

Creeping over the ground


Ukrainian (more precisely, British and French) low-flying long-range precision-guided munitions and the problems associated with the fight against them were discussed in a material published on December 12 The intensity of attacks caused by Ukrainian cruise missiles and kamikaze UAVs will only increase.


The Storm Shadow cruise missile can fly at an altitude of about 30 meters. Image by iStock.com/alxpin

Given the fact that The Ukrainian Armed Forces may soon receive (or have already received) F-16 fighters, the intensity of strikes with cruise missiles can indeed increase significantly, of course, if the missile launchers themselves are delivered along with the aircraft. In the context of accusations against Russia that it has received and is using North Korean ballistic missiles, The United States may decide to transfer the above-mentioned JASSM-ER long-range missiles to Ukraine.

There are three main problems that hinder the timely detection of low-flying air attack weapons (LAW), namely:

- low flight altitude of SVN, which, in combination with the terrain, prevents their timely detection;
- the enemy’s awareness of the location of air defense systems (air defense) thanks to space and air reconnaissance assets of NATO countries, as well as, presumably, a developed intelligence network;
- low radar signature of EOS in the radar and thermal wavelength ranges.

That is why timely detection of low-flying air attack weapons is the primary task of air defense.

One of the elements of a promising system for detecting low-flying airborne weapons can and should be long-range radar detection UAVs (AWACS), as we previously discussed in April 2019 in the material Ensuring the work of the air defense system on low-flying targets without involving Air Force aviation.


Prototype UAV DRLO JY-300 Chinese company CETC

UAV "Helios-RLD"


The Helios-RLD UAV is one of the promising projects being developed by the Kronstadt group. Currently, Kronstadt is already mass-producing the Orion UAV, which we recently discussed in the material Destruction with confirmation: the use of the Lancet-3 kamikaze UAV from the Orion UAV carriers will defiantly destroy Ukrainian Patriot air defense systems and HIMARS MLRS. The readiness status of other projects is unknown, but there is no doubt that development is underway - relatively recently another promising drone was spotted in the air - the Sirius UAV. According to open sources, the first flight of the Helios-RLD heavy UAV should be carried out in 2024.


Model of the Helios-RLD UAV. Image by the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation

As its name suggests, the Helios-RLD (radar patrol) UAV is precisely designed to perform radar detection tasks, including low-flying targets.

When they talk about the use of UAVs as carriers of AWACS equipment, skeptics often say that it is impossible to place on them the same volume of on-board electronic equipment (avionics), as well as a radar station (radar), comparable in capabilities to that installed on “large” manned AWACS (U-control) aircraft. This is true, but UAV-AWACS should not replace A-50 or A-100 type AWACS aircraft, but should effectively complement them within the framework of a single reconnaissance and strike contour - in fact, this is exactly what representatives of the UAV developer company Helios are talking about -RLD.”

The lower power of the radar of the Helios-RLD UAV should be compensated by their number and the possibility of long-term stay in the air - it is assumed that for the Helios-RLD UAV the flight duration will be 24-30 hours at a speed of about 350-450 kilometers per hour, with a maximum flight altitude can reach 11 meters.

The advantage of UAV-AWACS is not only that they are able to see low-flying objects, regardless of changes in terrain, but also that, as we said earlier, enemy space electronic reconnaissance (RTR) means are highly likely to track the location of all operating Russian radars , which allows the enemy to plot the flight route of low-flying air attack weapons, taking into account ensuring the minimum probability of their detection and destruction.

Under these conditions, groups of Helios-RLD UAVs can be on duty with a quasi-random change in their flight trajectory in such a way that the enemy will not be able to calculate which area of ​​the terrain at one time or another will be covered by radar equipment and which will not. With the increase in the number of Helios-RLD UAVs in the ranks of the RF Armed Forces, such areas may not remain at all - several dozen, or even hundreds of Helios-RLD UAVs, on duty 24 hours a day, can take control of extended areas, providing timely detection of low-flying cruise missiles, kamikaze UAVs and other airborne weapons.


UAV "Helios-RLD". Image commons.wikimedia.org, Kirill Borisenko

To increase the efficiency of solving the problem of detecting enemy cruise missiles, it is possible to propose that the manufacturer introduce ultraviolet radiation sensors into the Helios-RLD UAV, which are used to detect the specific radiation of jet engines of attacking air-to-air missiles (AAM) and anti-aircraft guided missiles (SAM) .

Firstly, presumably, this will make it possible to detect the torches of cruise missile engines in a similar way - the ultraviolet radiation of rocket engines is in the region of the spectrum of electromagnetic waves, where there is no natural background radiation, and accordingly, there are no reflections and interference from the earth's surface and other objects. Thus, UAV-AWACS will be able to detect enemy missile systems in two ways - using radar and using UV sensors.

Why not a thermal imaging camera that can see the heat from the engine? Because, taking into account the limitations of the UAV in terms of carrying capacity, it is far from a fact that it will be possible to place both a radar and an optoelectronic system (OES) with a high-resolution thermal imager, and UV sensors, apparently, are quite compact. However, if this is not the case, then radar + OES + UD sensors in combination will be even more effective.

Secondly, the presence of UV sensors will make it possible to use them to protect the UAV itself from attacks by V-V missiles and missile defense systems. Considering that means of releasing protective traps are already installed even on cruise missiles, using them on a “reusable” UAV is more than reasonable. If an attack is detected, the UAV-AWACS can turn off the radar, undertake an evasive maneuver and launch decoys - given its supposed low radar and thermal signatures, it may be lucky.


Russian cruise missile (presumably Kh-101) shoots off defensive decoys

Not “Helios” alone...


Considering that the Orion UAV was the first to appear, that the larger Sirius UAV is already being tested in the air, and the first flight of the Helios-RLD UAV is still scheduled only for 2024, the option of using UAV "Sirius" as a platform for placing AWACS equipment. Yes, its payload capacity should presumably be lower than that of the Helios-RLD UAV, but this can be compensated for by installing less powerful radars.


UAV "Sirius" during a test flight

The reality is that the intensity of low-flying airborne strikes will increase now, or rather, is already increasing, so the development of UAV-AWACS should become one of the highest priority tasks - it is in this capacity that MALE class UAVs will be most useful. However, the Sirius UAV, in terms of providing air defense, can potentially solve other problems, which we will talk about later.

Conclusions


UAV-AWACS, in particular the Helios-RLD UAV, can and should become one of the most important elements of our country’s new deeply layered air defense system.

With the help of UAV-AWACS, a spatially distributed, dynamically changing network can potentially be built, providing detection of low-flying air attack weapons with a depth of tens of kilometers and an extension along the entire line of combat contact.

In the future, we will consider other elements of a promising air defense system, which could potentially completely close the skies of our country to enemy air attack weapons.
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  1. +8
    9 January 2024 04: 54
    Radar+EOS+UD sensors in combination will be even more effective.

    They discovered the launch of a missile defense system, and then what? Shoot the heat traps, as without maneuver they are practically useless. We need not only a full-fledged defense complex and ground-based air defense systems. Otherwise, the flight of such an expensive and easily detectable UAV for electronic reconnaissance will be very short.
    1. +1
      9 January 2024 09: 55
      Quote: Vita VKO
      They discovered the launch of a missile defense system, and then what?

      A set of UAV equipment of this type allows you to avoid entering the air defense missile zone
      1. +2
        10 January 2024 13: 34
        Quote: APASUS
        A set of UAV equipment of this type allows you to avoid entering the air defense missile zone

        The detection range is too small, if in the Kyrgyz Republic it is 100-110 km. , then you will need to keep up to 10 such devices in the air at the same time. Therefore, the general grouping alone will require 30-50 units to provide air defense systems. , and in total to control the entire western border - at least 100 pieces. And there is also the Far East, the southern border and the Arctic. Is our industry ready for such a labor feat in the next few years? I would like to believe.
        And there is also the question of data transmission channels, their security, throughput and their integration for control and analysis at the VKS air defense command post. This is a complex task.
        Quote: APASUS
        allows you to avoid entering the affected area of ​​the air defense system

        It depends on which ones. The same "Patriots" and their analogues in terms of range are quite capable of hitting such devices from the tactical and even operational rear, because due to their limited detection range they will have to patrol along the LBS at 20-30 km.
        So we need more powerful radars. And these are larger UAVs and, accordingly, more powerful radars.
        1. +3
          10 January 2024 15: 05
          Quote: bayard
          Is our industry ready for such a labor feat in the next few years?

          I think I’m ready. The problem is rather in effective managers from the Moscow Region and the military-industrial complex. But many schemes were quickly broken due to the SVO.
          Quote: bayard
          So we need more powerful radars. And these are larger UAVs and, accordingly, more powerful radars.

          We need different ones, many tasks, powerful and not so powerful
          1. 0
            10 January 2024 17: 19
            Quote: APASUS
            We need different ones, many tasks, powerful and not so powerful

            You can't argue with that. Moreover, ground-based radars in WWI can see no further than several tens of kilometers.
            1. 0
              11 January 2024 14: 25
              Quote: bayard
              that ground-based radars in WWI can see no further than a few tens of kilometers.

              The curvature of the earth's surface allows maximum viewing of the airspace by the locator, without blind spots at 41 km. The value is known
              1. 0
                18 February 2024 14: 08
                From a height of 1000m and not from scratch.
        2. 0
          10 January 2024 19: 10
          Decades of proxy wars are now beginning. You need to keep your eyes above the gray zone, as well as high, high. War in space is also expected. We need now and in the future all possible ways to put pressure and strain.
  2. +2
    9 January 2024 05: 03
    UAV-DRLO, in particular UAV "Helios-RLD"
    Another drumbeat. request At a flight altitude of 11 km, the target detection range is 110 km. request This happened to me, how about you? feel recourse The Chinese are right, we need a stratospheric balloon with an air defense area around it, and not heat traps. request
    1. 0
      9 January 2024 05: 17
      A stratospheric balloon from a height of 20 km will have a detection range of about 500 km. Hang in Donetsk and Sevastopol. recourse
    2. +13
      9 January 2024 05: 56
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      At a flight altitude of 11 km, the target detection range is 110 km. This happened to me, how about you?

      Well, if you count according to the formula C2H5OH, then maybe, but if using geometric formulas, then at the target at zero altitude 374 km without taking into account refraction! wink
      https://www.translatorscafe.com/unit-converter/ru-RU/calculator/radar-horizon/
      1. +6
        9 January 2024 13: 20
        Refraction is here to stay. The radio horizon for radar from an altitude of 11 km is about 430 km.
        1. +1
          9 January 2024 13: 30
          Quote from solar
          Refraction is here to stay. The radio horizon for radar from an altitude of 11 km is about 430 km.

          So the flight altitude of the rockets is not zero, I just didn’t make it more complicated. hi
          1. 0
            9 January 2024 15: 50
            if not zero, then there will be an opportunity to detect even further.
            374 km excluding refraction

            This is the range for the visible range, a factor of 3,57 times the square root of the height in meters. Radio waves at the frequencies used in radars are subject to refraction (bending around the earth's surface), coefficient 4.12 (below I mistakenly wrote 4,11, this is not important).
        2. -1
          9 January 2024 18: 59
          Quote from solar
          Refraction is here to stay. The radio horizon for radar from an altitude of 11 km is about 430 km.

          In general, it is already clear that it is unlikely that it will be possible to detect an inconspicuous target at a distance of more than 100 kilometers, especially against the background of the earth, even if there is a radio horizon of at least 1000 kilometers.
          1. +1
            9 January 2024 19: 35
            Therefore, there is no point in raising the UAV so high.
            1. 0
              9 January 2024 19: 40
              Quote from solar
              Therefore, there is no point in raising the UAV so high.

              Well, why not raise it? Ten kilometers is quite normal. In addition to the conventional horizon, there is also the problem of terrain.
              1. 0
                9 January 2024 19: 46
                Depends on the radar range. At an altitude of 1000m, the range of the radio horizon is 130 km. If the radar actually detects targets at 90-100 km, for example, such a height will be enough to realize the capabilities of the radar even taking into account the terrain.
                1. 0
                  10 January 2024 00: 20
                  At an altitude of 1000m, the range of the radio horizon is 130 km.

                  However, some peaks of the Crimean mountains are up to 1,5 km and in some places this can be used, and perhaps is used.
                  1. 0
                    10 January 2024 13: 41
                    Quote: Alexey Lantukh
                    the peaks of the Crimean mountains are up to 1,5 km and in some places this can be used, and perhaps is used.

                    Yes, but a radar station on a high mountain will have a dead crater not only at the top, but also at the bottom, and the missile launcher in WWI can slip through there when passing between the mountains.
                    UAV AWACS are good, but their radar also requires sufficient power for a greater detection range. It would be nice to provide one at least 200-250 km away.
  3. +1
    9 January 2024 05: 25
    Circulating on the Internet video recording of the explosion, for the filming of which its creators apparently face criminal liability.

    Is this a fake or unwanted video? The truth will leak out sooner or later, and underestimating (masking) losses can cause distrust in the sources of information from the Defense Ministry.
    * * *
    The author did not say anything new. In addition, it became completely clear to us that UAVs of a rather complex design are at the stage of either testing or mock-ups.
    * * *
    In the future, we will consider other elements of a promising air defense system, which could potentially completely cover the skies of our country for enemy air attack weapons.

    In other words, does that “reliable” air defense shield, which the Defense Ministry has been talking about for so long, have holes? And we, as always, do not have enough time and funds to defend our country and Russian citizens in a real way?
    What message could be better and convey more confidence in your own safety?
    Until 2036, the carriage...
    1. +1
      9 January 2024 06: 21
      Quote: ROSS 42
      UAVs of rather complex design are at the stage of either testing or mock-ups

      It's tolerable. But what about the components, especially electronics? I hope all this is produced here?
      1. KCA
        -2
        9 January 2024 06: 35
        No, all components are manufactured only in the USA, oh oh, in China and other Southeast Asian countries, the Pentagon and NASA buy everything there, I have never in my life seen an AMD processor or Intel made in USA, the closest one is from Mexico, Costa Rica, and so the leader of Malaysia, there was quite a scandal in the Pentagon when it turned out that components were purchased from China not only with military acceptance, but in general a completely left-wing counterfeit without a name or tribe
        1. -2
          9 January 2024 07: 18
          Quote: KCA
          oh oh, in China and other Southeast Asian countries

          In the heat of your oratory, you completely forgot about Elbrus and Baikal wink
          1. KCA
            +1
            9 January 2024 07: 52
            So they were made there, or they are made at TSMC, and what is the difference with Intel, AMD, Nvidia, they seem to be American, but they are made in Taiwan, Apple generally assembles 100% at Foxcon, and displays and memory at its main competitor - Gnusmas, and someone in American forums is bombing because of this? Oh, they don’t pay for bombing and they cut bad posts in seconds
            1. +2
              9 January 2024 16: 16
              Quote: KCA
              So they were made there, or they are made at TSMC, and what is the difference with Intel, AMD, Nvidia, they seem to be American, but they are made in Taiwan, Apple generally assembles 100% at Foxcon, and displays and memory at its main competitor - Gnusmas, and someone in American forums is bombing because of this?

              Firstly, yes, they are also “bombed” by this. Although not as much as us. Why?

              Secondly, all these countries are American vassals, and it is very difficult to imagine a situation in which they would suddenly refuse to supply the American defense industry with the chips it needs.

              Thirdly, all these countries use technologies of American origin. The United States does not produce chips not because they do not know how, but because their production in the United States would be too expensive and, therefore, uncompetitive in the world market. But if they have a need for such production, they will create it. The problem is purely investment. They have all the know-how for this.

              These minor circumstances somewhat distinguish the problems with high-tech in the Russian Federation and in the United States.
              1. KCA
                -1
                9 January 2024 19: 35
                You have no idea that there are spot markets in Southeast Asia, give me money and I will buy you everything that is made there, from resistors to processors for Tridents, or something cooler
                1. +2
                  9 January 2024 19: 41
                  Quote: KCA
                  give me money and I'll buy you everything

                  Egor Timurovich, log back.
                  1. KCA
                    -4
                    9 January 2024 19: 45
                    I’m Konstin Aleksandrovich, if anything, I was involved in leftist work from China and others 20 and 30 years ago
                    1. +1
                      9 January 2024 19: 55
                      Quote: KCA
                      I was involved in leftism from China and others 20 and 30 years ago

                      You need to become the head of the supply department at Huawei. They have some problems there with the purchase of processors. They can’t buy on the spot markets in Southeast Asia; they try to make something themselves. Well, stupid.
                      1. KCA
                        -1
                        10 January 2024 05: 45
                        Well, yes, they can’t do anything at all, so they make telephones and 5G equipment, they also released electric cars, their logistics are crap, I would help, but the states are against it, they won’t let me out of the Russian Federation
              2. -3
                9 January 2024 22: 50
                Quote: DenVB
                if they have a need for such production, they will create it. The problem is purely investment. They have all the know-how for this.

                Maybe they will, if there are still those workers and engineers who were engaged in SPECIFIC production. They already... had nuclear technology. Electronics are being exported from Southeast Asia at a frantic pace, because the Whales are on their heels... And the Yankees will now take a counterposition with the Hongfuzes, and I’m not sure that the last word will remain with them. The cowboys still can’t overcome hypersound. And the whales are already making UAVs using 16M detonation engines!!!
                So, the “Roman Empire” entered the time of its decline. The main thing is that when it finally collapses, it does not take the rest of humanity with it “beyond the event horizon.”
                AHA.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. +9
    9 January 2024 06: 29
    It’s depressing that there are too many publications on VO, the authors of which absolutely do not understand what they are talking about. sad
    1. +3
      9 January 2024 11: 22
      This is because such authors have minor damage in education.
      1. +5
        9 January 2024 14: 17
        This does not prevent them from writing, and leads to such a phenomenon as Mitrofanovism.
  6. +9
    9 January 2024 06: 29
    Enterprise "Kronstadt" ... And where is their strike "Orion"? No. More precisely, it exists physically, but without means of destruction, that is, without missiles. They tried to adapt “Cornet”, but based on the fact that there were practically no of them at the front, the idea failed.
    “Helios”...is there a live, working radar for it? No. Even on paper.
    A curtain.
    1. +2
      9 January 2024 07: 41
      Quote: FRoman1984
      They tried to adapt Cornet, but based on the fact that there were practically no of them at the front, the idea failed.

      The idea with "Cornet" was "so-so"! From the very beginning it was clear even to me, the "average man in the street"!
      1. -1
        9 January 2024 13: 11
        Why is the cornet idea bad? Because the slow Pepelats at the front are visible to the air defense, and since there are few Pepelats, they decided not to send them there?
    2. +1
      9 January 2024 16: 36
      Quote: FRoman1984
      “Helios”...is there a live, working radar for it? No.

      You can take the E-801 from the Ka-31. It is possible to adapt a suitable fighter radar, for example, the Zhuk-F from the Mig-29, or even the Zhuk-A. In general, this is a solvable problem.
      1. -1
        10 January 2024 07: 00
        Quote: DenVB
        Quote: FRoman1984
        “Helios”...is there a live, working radar for it? No.

        You can take the E-801 from the Ka-31. It is possible to adapt a suitable fighter radar, for example, the Zhuk-F from the Mig-29, or even the Zhuk-A. In general, this is a solvable problem.

        Most likely, it will not work from a fighter due to the high energy consumption of these radars. From a helicopter... perhaps, but then the low power will greatly affect the detection range, which is in contrast to the theses of the author of the article about the role of Helios as an AWACS drone.
        1. 0
          10 January 2024 13: 25
          Quote: FRoman1984
          Most likely, it will not work from a fighter due to the high energy consumption of these radars.

          About 20 kW. In any case, if we want a radar with any decent performance, it won't run on batteries.

          And we must also take into account that fighter radars are not designed for long-term operation. The radiation power may have to be reduced by half. The range will decrease by 20 percent, which is tolerable.
          1. 0
            15 January 2024 01: 24
            Quote: DenVB
            And we must also take into account that fighter radars are not designed for long-term operation. The radiation power may have to be reduced by half.
            What does "not intended" mean? How then can a Su-35 or Su-34 fly for 3 hours or more? Without using radars or what?
            1. +1
              15 January 2024 01: 43
              Quote: Expert
              What does "not intended" mean?

              Don't know. A similar question has already been discussed here, and someone provided the same information. I have no information about the service life of fighter radars and the permissible periods of continuous operation.
  7. +2
    9 January 2024 06: 49
    My opinion, an old military man, is to make a mold of Geranium 2 for casting from PSB-25, reinforce the place for the internal combustion engine, pour the landmine without fragmentation casing into the airframe, it will fit up to 50 kg, internal combustion engine from the Lynx UMPO snowmobile, overhead control and guidance systems, painting polyurethane, launch from a pneumatic catapult, launch time up to 6 months and off we go...
    1. 0
      9 January 2024 07: 37
      Quote: air wolf
      My opinion, an old military man, is this

      Look forward, please, to the Russian language!
  8. -1
    9 January 2024 07: 22
    Still, how the war drives the development of scientific and engineering thought, and most importantly, how quickly new models and modernizations began to be adopted! Nice to look at
  9. +1
    9 January 2024 07: 52
    The task of Helios is to carry out long-range radar patrol tasks in the northern Arctic regions, the director of the center, Vladimir Voronov, told the Zvezda TV channel.
    “Several devices of this class are capable of creating continuous radar coverage to warn of a sudden missile attack,” he explained.

    The wingspan of Helios is 30 meters,
    take-off weight more than five tons,
    payload mass - over one ton.
    1. +7
      9 January 2024 08: 20
      Quote: Bad_gr
      The wingspan of Helios is 30 meters,
      Dimensions of Helios compared to Orion
  10. +3
    9 January 2024 08: 03
    "Affected" "Helios-RLD"? This is an interesting topic! In principle, “Helios-RLD” was ready (or almost ready) for serious tests before being put into service even before the SVO! But the RF Ministry of Defense began to “get caught up”...(like: this is not this and that is not suitable!)! But even to me, the “average man in the street,” it was clear that we really needed such a “Helios”! The fact that UAVs similar to the “Helios-RLD” are not in service with the Armed Forces of Russia is, I believe, the direct fault of the bureaucrats in the Russian Defense Ministry! By the way, “Helios” could be used not only in the “RLD” version! It was possible to install other equipment on Helios... and even rockets! "Helios" could operate in pairs and units! But everything was crossed out by the stupidity of officials from the RF Ministry of Defense!
    1. +5
      9 January 2024 11: 39
      I doubt that we have a localized engine for Helios. We couldn’t make a regular internal combustion engine for Orion either. And without a localized engine, Ministry of Defense officials apparently did not want to contract it. This is generally a problem with the Moscow Region’s approach to localizing production. There is a requirement, but there is no local production, which is why there are no drones in the required quantity. The Iranians are much more far-sighted in this regard; they use Chinese engines for their drones
      1. +2
        9 January 2024 13: 04
        There engines cost a hundred thousand bucks on the foreign market. I think they thought it was easier to purchase several thousand gray schemes than to localize them. But the engine is the penultimate problem, we have the Kula Il-76, with localized engines, airframes and wheels, take it and convert it into an A100. But somehow it doesn't work...
    2. +4
      9 January 2024 13: 07
      How could Helios be ready?! On it, as far as I remember, there is part of the AFAR from the A100, which is still unclear how well it works on the A100

      In general, Helios appeared as a spare Altius, which was heroically ruined by businessman Tsvetkov, who is now happy and sitting in London.
  11. +1
    9 January 2024 08: 23
    Again, according to unconfirmed reports, the Novocherkassk landing craft transported a large batch of kamikaze unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) of the Geran-2 type.
    What's the point of carrying a UAV on a ship when the railway is operating with enormous capacity? I understand that no one is immune from chaos, but is it stupid to repeat Sumerian fakes?
    1. +4
      9 January 2024 11: 44
      Perhaps there is a ban on transporting explosives across the Crimean Bridge (sabotage with secondary detonation of a train with explosives on the bridge)
    2. +1
      9 January 2024 14: 43
      Yes, they can just be transported by trucks. They are launched from a truck, as an option. Who came up with the idea of ​​transporting a large Landing Ship - under the tribunal. They should have harnessed Kuznetsov or Peter the First, geniuses.
  12. 0
    9 January 2024 10: 13
    Why only air defense? The radar cannot illuminate the ground situation with piles of metal in the form of tanks, artillery and other equipment? I think maybe. Potentially a very useful device!
  13. +1
    9 January 2024 11: 21
    Isn't it easier to make an airship?
    Unmanned, hanging over our territory and shining.
  14. 0
    9 January 2024 11: 25
    It’s easier to hang the ball in the air, where it will have the same radar equipment on it, which will see very far beyond the horizon, what’s the problem with implementing this. Hang a couple of these radars (like the same Chinese balls that made a rustle) only stationary ones. 6 pieces over Crimea and they will cover a huge space.
    1. +2
      9 January 2024 16: 58
      Respected people won't earn much on a balloon.
    2. 0
      9 January 2024 21: 40
      Not easier. The ball is stationary and highly dependent on the wind. It is not difficult to reach it with a Garm-type missile, for example.
      1. 0
        10 January 2024 10: 57
        what kind of wind does it depend on, if it is pulled to the ground by cables, etc. + we are not talking about a balloon as such, slag, but about the same balloons.
        To shoot down with a missile, you must first bring the air defense into range, look at the LBS. The point is that this air defense radar will only see the plane high in the air long before launch, so the strike can be delivered in different ways!
        One does not interfere with the other, but balloons simply must be
        1. 0
          10 January 2024 22: 49
          Quote: 501Legion
          To shoot down with a missile, you need to bring the air defense into range,

          Anti-radar missile AGM-88 HARM - 150 km, AARGM-ER (AGM-88G) - 300 km. range. Moreover, the tethered balloon cannot be raised high and lowered quickly; it can be easily taken out.
  15. +5
    9 January 2024 11: 34
    The activities of JSC Kronstadt need to be dealt with by the competent authorities. According to cheerful reports from the company’s management, serial production of Orions was launched back in 2019. According to them, the plant has been operating in three shifts for 4 years, intensively utilizing budget funds, but the army and, in particular, the Northern Military District do not have these drones. At the same time, several general directors have already changed. It looks a lot like sabotage or incompetence. Therefore, there is no point in talking about any deliveries of Sirius and especially Helios in the next five years.
    1. +1
      9 January 2024 17: 47
      Kronstadt’s drones at least participated in their own; some were lost in battle. Work in three shifts began in the summer of 2022, and not 4 years ago. The question, of course, is how they do everything in three shifts, if their design is, one might say, entirely imported, apparently they are preparing the cases for future use.
      Questions should be asked to more responsible persons whose drones are not observed at all. Where are the Altius, corsairs, hunters, Irkuts? I'm not even talking about the stork, for which 5 billion were allocated back in 2009; in modern money this is much more than for Orion and Altius combined
  16. +4
    9 January 2024 14: 00
    The flight duration will be 24-30 hours at a speed of about 350-450 kilometers per hour, while the maximum flight altitude can reach 11 meters.

    The speed requirements are obviously too high - it will be based not far from the patrol area, and when patrolling, such speed is also not needed.
    The flight altitude must correspond to the radar operating range. The formula is simple - range is 4,11 times the square root of the flight altitude. The above doesn’t make sense - the radar doesn’t see any further anyway.
    Such a UAV will still only fly outside the range of enemy air defense systems.
    will be able to detect enemy missile systems in two ways - using radar and using UV sensors

    This is if it is possible to equip it with UV sensors with a range comparable to radar, which is doubtful.
    1. 0
      10 January 2024 00: 32
      Quote from solar
      This is if it is possible to equip UV sensors with a range

      Since missile launchers do not have rocket engines, they do not emit any UV.
      1. 0
        10 January 2024 11: 39
        In a MANPADS, the UV sensor detects a dark spot against the sky; the source of UV radiation is the Sun.
        What the author meant is difficult to understand
  17. 0
    9 January 2024 14: 15
    If we need a radar so much, why not put it on the passenger plane?
    1. +1
      9 January 2024 21: 43
      Quote: Zaurbek
      If we need a radar so much, why not put it on the passenger plane?

      So there is nothing to bet. That's the problem.
      1. -1
        9 January 2024 22: 32
        There is a serial PFAR for fighter aircraft....
  18. +3
    9 January 2024 14: 59
    As always, two plugs. First, the engine. It must be powerful enough to feed the radar, and at the same time economical to keep the UAV in flight for a day. Judging by the fact that there are no such engines even for Orion, some kind of Helios... Second, radar. It should also be economical (lightweight) and powerful. AFAR is preferable, but PFAR is also possible, it will be even more powerful in terms of signal. In short, it's a big deal.

    I repeat once again, we need to change the approach to government procurement. We have a Western system: the customer (MO) places the order, the contractor (enterprise, design bureau) executes it. Well, one enterprise or company, even if it is Rostec, cannot cope with a complex technological task. We need cooperation at the level of design bureaus, research institutes and industry, as in Soviet times. Planned approach. When entire industries worked collectively on a complex and important task. Then there will be an effect. And entrusting Krondshtat or Vega with making an AWACS UAV, A-100 with AFARs and sitting and waiting is a waste of money and time.
    1. 0
      9 January 2024 23: 18
      Quote: Timur_kz
      First, the engine. It must be powerful enough to feed the radar, and at the same time economical to keep the UAV in flight for a day.

      There are no problems with the engines; we have enough different engines. And purchasing under gray schemes is not a problem, the only question is how much the trusted persons will steal. The problem is that we stubbornly ignore intelligence and create a rhinoceros army. He is formidable, always attacks head-on, and sees and hears poorly. You can’t show reconnaissance at a parade either; no one will appreciate the difficulties of creation.
      There is no problem, just take it and do it. At least drag a captured radar from a beech tree or a C300/350/400 into a Boeing. There are planes in the country, there are radars, but when it comes down to it, everything just falls out of hand
  19. +4
    9 January 2024 15: 01
    The extent of damage to the landing craft is unknown? Was the author in hibernation? In fact, the ship does not exist, it disappeared due to the detonation of the BC, there are only remains there, photographs have long been posted everywhere. And there is no trust in Kronstadt about the drone; they couldn’t even launch Orion into production in the required quantities, and I’m generally silent about more complex ones.
  20. 0
    9 January 2024 19: 31
    We have ground-based radars operating against low-flying targets. I served in the army aviation as the head of RSP 10, and the dispatch locator saw the helicopter at a range of up to 80 km in SPC mode at an altitude of up to 150 meters.
  21. +1
    9 January 2024 19: 52
    Quote: Tucan
    It’s depressing that there are too many publications on VO, the authors of which absolutely do not understand what they are talking about. sad

    I agree, neither the cost, nor the timing, but I’m generally silent about the construction and practice of application. I was surprised by the passage about the destroyed (slightly damaged) large landing ship. Author. You should be ashamed.
  22. 0
    9 January 2024 21: 35
    Those bastards VSUki. They also snap.
    It’s as if they don’t understand that the order has been given to start the SVO.
    AKs were distributed to thousands in Kyiv. They would have sent their militant back to the stage long ago.
  23. +1
    10 January 2024 00: 34
    This article about UAV-AWACS, in particular the Helios-RLD UAV, gives me a feeling of bewilderment, and the “taste” of sucking in another company around a potential object, for the sake of which the next “cut” of the state will be made. budget.... I am not an expert in the field of location and the use of UAVs in its direction, but judging by the “scope” (in the note and in the comments) regarding the creation of the New Vasyuki project - in marble and bronze, based on a UAV, an interesting picture... Having delved into the history of the issue of creating radar screens in the USSR - Russia, against low-flying vehicles of different designs, signatures, speed characteristics, I discovered that domestic military scientific thought worked in this direction quite effectively, which resulted in quite effective and a ready-to-implement project of such AWACS-curtain systems based on small balloons, with light radars that contrast “see” targets flying from altitudes of 5-7 meters and up to 150 meters against the background of the terrain. Balloons rise as “curtains” in all “tank-dangerous” directions, around cities, economically important objects... It seems to me that such an indicator as costs - the efficiency of such a project is much higher than that of the Helios-RLD lunar rover... I will say more, in the Moscow region, at one time, tests were carried out, simply curtains from the Kyrgyz Republic on the basis of balloons raised to a height of 60 meters and a large-mesh network of nylon cable, which was raised by these balloons. The missile launcher, flying at an altitude of about 40 meters, “had the honor” of piercing this curtain. The effect was amazing: for a week the unit's personnel collected the wreckage of this device in the forest. The balloon is much cheaper to manufacture and operate. A dozen such balloons with special radars can be combined into a single, MOBILE network with a single center for control, information processing and target designation. Maybe it makes sense to remember the well-forgotten old things and help out professionally?
  24. osp
    0
    10 January 2024 03: 51
    Quote: DenVB
    Quote: FRoman1984
    “Helios”...is there a live, working radar for it? No.

    You can take the E-801 from the Ka-31. It is possible to adapt a suitable fighter radar, for example, the Zhuk-F from the Mig-29, or even the Zhuk-A. In general, this is a solvable problem.

    The "Oko" E-801 complex in its modernized version has quite the characteristics and takes up to 40 targets.
    But!

    It consumes so much electricity that the power of a pair of TV3-117VK helicopter engines was not enough and the Ka-31 helicopter was equipped with an auxiliary generator.

    Where can I get this power on board the UAV?
  25. 0
    10 January 2024 19: 20
    Judging by how long and tediously the author has been elaborating on the motivation for creating this type of UAV, the Kronstadters themselves have not yet found compelling arguments, but are creating a precedent for our armed forces. And let only his own experience allow the general to understand where he is burning out, and then the performance characteristics begin to bite.
    Let's cross our fingers that these turns out to be visionary statements, and that the implemented technologies can push the topic forward.
  26. DO
    0
    18 January 2024 18: 24
    This article discusses additional air defense systems against low-flying targets in the deep rear of the Russian Federation, that is, outside the affected area of ​​the Patriot air defense system of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
    It is advisable to supplement the protection of rear cities and strategic objects by means of loitering UAVs with tethered balloons/airships. In this case, tethered balloons/airships will create a radar field around the protected objects themselves, and UAVs will create a radar field in their distant surroundings.

    If an attack is detected, the UAV-AWACS can turn off the radar, undertake an evasive maneuver and launch traps
    Where can an enemy attack on a UAV-AWACS come from? There are two sources of threats/errors here:
    - The UAV-AWACS flew into the affected area of ​​the Ukrainian Armed Forces air defense system, which was switched off until the moment of the attack and was placed in ambush near the LBS;
    - attack by enemy fighters or helicopters.
    Heat traps are ineffective against modern air defense systems. Evasion/evasion from modern single missiles is not 100% even for fighters, but for a loitering UAV this probability tends to zero. Therefore, the incursion of a loitering UAV-AWACS into a potential zone of destruction of an enemy air defense system must be an incursion of those who incorrectly planned the flight zone, or an operator who deviated - an incursion in the army sense of the word.
    However, for the purpose of reconnaissance not of the enemy’s low-flying airborne attack systems, but of the enemy’s rear, the AWACS radar must be brought close to the LBS. And here only carriers of the Su-34 radar are suitable, having a chance to escape from the missile; in a hopeless situation, the crew will eject. Even better here as a radar carrier is the old Su-27, modernized into a drone.

    A layered air defense system must work effectively against enemy fighters and helicopters.