Rafale vs Su-30SM: battle in the skies of Central Asia

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Rafale vs Su-30SM: battle in the skies of Central Asia

France is very actively trying to enter the world arms sales market with Rafale aircraft, trying to displace Russian aircraft in the countries of Central Asia, the original users of Soviet and Russian weapons.

Apparently, he really wants money. Especially after the USA and Great Britain famously beat France in the matter of supplying submarines to Australia. Let us recall that the French contractor Naval Group was supposed to supply Australia with 12 submarines, the contract value was $66 billion. However, Australia has now entered into a partnership with the United States and Great Britain, which will help it build fewer nuclear submarines (8 units) and a little more expensive.



However, the French rushed to develop new markets and today the same French cars can be seen in the armies of the former CIS countries. And Ukraine has generally become a testing ground for French technology, so it is not surprising that companies from France are struggling to exchange their products for dollars and euros.

It is not surprising that after the success in India (if you can call it that) with the delivery of Rafales to the Indian Air Force, I wanted more. And since Russia seems to have lost the tender, then why not promote it in other places? Well, in general, everything is logical.

And so in the fall of this year, French emissaries began to frequent Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. Well, it would be very interesting to supply “Rafale” to these republics as well, fortunately, they showed interest.


Moreover, when the guys from Dassault Aviation really smelled the money, they brought heavy artillery into the battle. President Macron himself visited Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. This happened on November 1 and 2, and return visits of Presidents Mirziyoyev and Tokayev took place on November 21 and 29, respectively.

And where over pilaf, where over beshbarmak, and where over coffee and croissants there was a conversation that yes, it would be nice to update the aircraft fleet...

In fact, both Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan have quite a lot of real aircraft junk on their balance sheets in the form of MiG-29, Su-27, Su-17, MiG-25 and MiG-23. Some of this assortment still underwent maintenance and modernization by the Belarusians in Baranovichi, but mostly these are “dead souls” that are only listed, and there is little real use from them, because this equipment is still Soviet, from those times.


Considering that now everyone is openly not friends with Russia, the plan was overall not bad. And bilateral cooperation between France and the Central Asian republics looked very logical and justified. And after the return visits of the heads of the Republic of Kazakhstan and the Republic of Uzbekistan to Paris, the French felt very confident. The rationale is clear: of course, the European Rafale is much better than any Russian aircraft. Simply because he is European. And it’s clear that with the purchase of European values, relationships are also bought, isn’t it?

Well, little by little the French began to celebrate their victory in the arms market. And at the end of November, the BFM TV channel began broadcasting that this is the situation: the republics of Central Asia want new aircraft and are considering European suppliers. And the French seem to have nothing to do with it, but they are quite ready to help for full euros.

It was well planned, like “it’s not my fault, he came himself!” Although the French did not lie too much, indeed, there was a desire to update the fleet, and in Kazakhstan it was even stronger than in Uzbekistan, because Tashkent received 2021 Su-12SM fighters in 30.

Therefore, the guys from Dassault Aviation, and even with the support of Macron, had a chance. In principle, it is normal when the president supports his producers and trades at the highest level. There are presidents who sell gas, others who sell oil, and others who sell cut and painted paper. Who has what at hand?

Considering the average cost of a Rafale is around 100 million dollars, and there is no point in selling less than a squadron (12 units plus training units at least 2 units), and weapons, spare parts, maintenance, training of pilots and technicians... In general, it really smelled like a billion, yes not alone. There was a reason for the president to plow.


Macron, of course, did his job. He knows how, he can’t take it away. But here’s the problem: Kazakhs and Uzbeks are a little different from Indians. Indians, of course, are not very rich for the most part (more precisely, the bulk of them are just poor), but they are one of the largest buyers of weapons in the world. That’s why they have their own vision of how everything should happen and their own conditions.

True, the French “threw them away” with the Rafales, because the main condition of the Indian side - production on Indian territory - caused the response of the “European partners”: there will be no production. But Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan don’t need this, because they have nowhere to produce. If Uzbekistan got the Tashken aircraft plant from the USSR, then, alas, the Uzbeks were unable to enter the aircraft industry, and, having disrupted orders for Ukraine and China, the plant was destroyed, bankrupted and its remains are used as a mechanical car repair plant. But the Kazakhs didn’t even have that.

Therefore, the task of acquiring aircraft began to play with interesting colors. Aircraft need to be maintained, repaired and overhauled. It’s one thing when this is done at Russian factories, which are only a couple of thousand kilometers away, another thing when it comes to Belarusian ones, which are three thousand kilometers away, and quite another thing when it comes to French factories, the distance to which is more than five thousand kilometers.

That is, in an amicable way, it is necessary to organize a repair base on site for the Rafales. And train specialists for it. In India, this is easier: there is still an industry there that produces complex equipment from cars to airplanes. That is, there is equipment, workers and engineers, plus personnel who train workers and engineers. The technological chain in all its glory.

Nothing similar is observed in Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan; moreover, today in these republics there is a real shortage of personnel precisely in terms of the engineering staff, which was 95% Russian. Today, Russians are leaving Kazakhstan under pressure from local, openly anti-Russian nationalists, which many resources simply talk about in alarm. Yes, the leadership of Kazakhstan pretends that nothing is happening, blaming the Russian side for everything (as usual), but this does not change things at all. And the shortage of personnel in the engineering staff is a familiar picture for the Republic of Kazakhstan and the Republic of Uzbekistan, moreover, in any industry, not only in aviation.


And in this particular case, what is needed is not just technicians and engineers, but technicians and engineers with knowledge of the language. French or, at worst, English. I think that all technical documentation on the Rafale has been translated into English for the Indian Air Force. But who will translate into Kazakh, which the Kazakhs themselves do not know, is the question. And God forbid, if the Kazakhs themselves do this, it will turn out worse than in our time.

In 2018, it was funny when the “specialists” of the University of Civil Aviation (St. Petersburg, former Civil Aviation Academy) decided to do a good deed and translated QRH - a collection of emergency procedures for the DA-42 training aircraft into Russian. The matter was done, approved, and sent to educational institutions - state flight schools of civil aviation in Russia.

Pages from this work spread all over the Internet and caused a healthy reaction among people who fly, since, for example, “experts” from the University of Civil Aviation suggested that if a student suddenly had a fire in the cockpit at an altitude of more than 10.000 feet, first of all turn on the oxygen supply, then remove the landing gear and maintaining “speed on demand” fly to the nearest airfield.


And this is in Russia, where there seem to be many aviation and humanitarian educational institutions. That is, in theory there should be people who understand what an airplane is and know foreign languages.

It is difficult to imagine what this will look like in Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. There will be the same “A Thousand and One Nights” in its most terrible version.

In Kazakhstan, apparently, they thought well and decided not to risk it. And at the end of November, immediately after Tokayev’s visit to Macron, they announced that they would buy the Su-30SM. And the Rafale... And what about the Rafale?


“No negotiations have been held on this issue. We had no such plans.", - Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the country's air defense forces for armaments, head of the main armament department Erzhan Nildibaev.

Like this. Nobody was going to buy the Rafale. This was not even in the plans. So, we sat over coffee and talked about nothing, but not seriously.

True, Nildibaev later added that “Therefore, choosing the question of price - quality, we are still sticking with the Su-30SM aircraft.”.


That is, after all, they made certain plans and thought about it. A peculiar people, our neighbors.

But in general story - one to one model of 2002 with Algeria. One of the former largest buyers of Russian weapons. Then they also came there with Rafales and danced around the Algerians for a long time, persuading them to buy Rafales instead of the Su-30MKA. However, Algeria preferred the Su-30MKA, very competently justifying the refusal: the Su-30 has a range of 1 km longer than the Rafale with the same speed and weapons load capacity, and the Russian aircraft has the advantage of a deflectable thrust vector.


Well, the price.

Here you need to understand that, as a member of the CSTO for now, Kazakhstan has very large discounts on Russian weapons. I would say huge discounts. “The Rafale will be supplied at the maximum price, since in addition to aircraft, ammunition and spare parts, training programs for all flight and technical personnel will be required. And this is expensive. And in general, the Rafal is an expensive car not only to purchase, but also to operate. They have been talking about this for a long time.

So the question is: does the Kazakh Air Force need a very expensive one to purchase, a very expensive one to operate, and at the same time, well, not call the Rafal the height of technical perfection. This is such a strong mid-range aircraft, but for its price you can buy two Su-30SM, the latest modification. And if you ask nicely, then three.


But the main thing is that Kazakh technicians and engineers have been operating Sukhoi Design Bureau machines for a long time (the entire independent history of Kazakhstan). And in more than 20 years it is really possible to master the hardware of any aircraft. So the Su-30 is really more familiar and cheaper. And under the MiG and Su there is everything: personnel, infrastructure, warehouses and so on. There is nothing for French planes, and everything will only be for money.


Here it is worth remembering how the Indian military, with some surprise, learned that the Rafales have their own refueling system and in order for the planes to be refueled in the air, they “only” have to buy air tankers with the appropriate equipment.

This is the most luxurious example when politicians begin to steer military procurement.

It’s difficult to say what happened in Kazakhstan and how the local military handled the situation when they were informed that everything was going well with the Rafales, but I think there are no such words in the Kazakh language and we had to use the great and mighty, fortunately, he is in the highest echelons of power still in use.

In general, the Kazakh military somehow managed to bring to their senses the politicians who clearly had no longer seen the shores. Apparently, the military budget is more important than political ambitions of an anti-Russian nature, and they understand very well (better than politicians) that “cheap and cheerful” is the Su-30, not the Rafal.

And in general, cheap is not about French weapons. Just look at the price tables, where you can see that the Rafale is one of the most expensive aircraft in its class. Up to 124 million dollars. The European "Typhoon" - 120 million dollars. And all the others, such as F-15, Su-30, cost 45-55 million dollars.

In general, the Kazakhs came to their senses and decided that another pack of Su-30s to add to the ones they already had was more interesting than spending huge sums on the Rafale. So Macron has beshbarmak to his credit, but the rest is alas.

In Uzbekistan, everything is absolutely identical, the difference with Kazakhstan is that in 2021, the Uzbek Air Force has already received new Su-30SM, which in general makes the situation with the purchase of Rafales an overtly political step.

It is understandable that after getting hit on the nose in Kazakhstan, the businessmen from Dassault Aviation now continued to dance with the Uzbek Air Force. The whole catch is that the Uzbek military was considering purchasing some other aircraft in addition to the Su-30. Both Rafales and South Korean KAI FA-50s were in sight.


But the South Korean plane is a machine of a completely different class. This is a classmate of light aircraft such as JAS-39 or Yak-130. Yes, it is very generously stuffed with advanced electronics, but its weapons are basically of the last century. And all the same problems as with the Rafale: who will maintain this high-tech aircraft? Uzbek technicians with MiG-29? In general, the problems are still the same.

And one more nuance. Even if it worked out, the conclusion of contracts would not guarantee their rapid execution. There is information that Dassault Aviation production facilities are loaded several years in advance. Moreover, the aircraft that are still on the balance sheet of the French Air Force, but which could be sold, also seem to be scheduled for buyers. In general, business is going well.

And it is clear why French President Macron is so actively involved in promoting French weapons on the world market. The military-industrial complex of each country that produces weapons is a tool for both earning money for the country’s budget and for earning political points by the leadership.

In general, given the political situation and Russia’s relations with its neighbors, the option of Macron pushing through the latter is quite realistic. And Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan could well try to replace Russian planes with French ones, but... But for this, the republics would have to have two things: a lot of money and trained personnel. It is doubtful that our neighbors have both. So the Rafales, which “flew” past the Kazakh budget, will most likely “fly” past the cash register in Uzbekistan.
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  1. +2
    26 December 2023 05: 02
    Quote from Skomorokhov’s article:
    “No negotiations have been held on this issue. We didn’t have any such plans,” Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the country’s air defense forces for armaments, head of the main armaments department, Erzhan Nildibaev.

    Those. Mr. Skomorokhov KNOWS that the French statement is a fake. But nevertheless he continues to replicate it.
    Question: why?
    1. +6
      26 December 2023 05: 32
      The text is, of course, large, and the Kazakhs and Uzbeks are still taking the Su-30SM, but the main problem is that all the world’s air forces, including the Kazakh and Uzbek ones, need a light fighter-bomber, and preferably a single-engine one, the maintenance of which is much cheaper than a heavy fighter, which is the Su -30CM. Our Aerospace Forces also need such an aircraft.
      Therefore, we first need to at least bring to fruition the modernized MiG-29 of the 4++ generation, which is called the MiG-35, and quickly develop a single-engine replacement based on the second stage engine from the Su-57 and developments on the Su-57, and if we don’t If we do, our aerospace forces will experience difficulties and we will lose exports to other arms exporters and, above all, to China.
      1. 0
        26 December 2023 05: 35
        including the Kazakh and Uzbek ones, they need a light fighter-bomber and preferably a single-engine one,

        How do you know what the Kazakhs and Uzbeks need? Or is this from the “I think so” section?
        1. +11
          26 December 2023 05: 59
          Do you really want to supply the Kazakhs with the latest aircraft at fraternal prices)))? Do you know anything about Tyumen Omba Astrakhan))? and the lands up to the Irtysh)))? otherwise it will be like with Ukraine, the same Lukoil invested money for 240 gas stations throughout the country and Gunpowder came and made a scratch))) don’t believe me? ask Friedman and his alpha)) some kind of wild immaturity, what do you think your brothers live in Kazakhstan? )) of course of course Orys is always a Kazakh brother))
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                      4. +4
                        27 December 2023 11: 43
                        I would like to see how in Qatar or somewhere in the center of Dubai a crowd of 50 thousand Christians would gather and demand to block traffic to celebrate the Nativity of Christ...
                        It would be interesting to see the reaction of local comrades. By the way, I think in Tashkent it would also lead to a stabbing, no?
                        So, the arbeiters need to shut their mouths and thank the Russians for their tolerance and “tolerance.”
                      5. +6
                        27 December 2023 14: 21
                        Christians, would demand to block traffic for the celebration of the Nativity of Christ...
                        It would be interesting to see the reaction of local comrades. By the way, I think in Tashkent It would also lead to a stabbing, no?

                        Speaking of Tashkent. On Christian holidays in Tashkent, the authorities close one of the central streets near the Church of the Assumption of the Mother of God (Hospital Church) and the streets near the Botkin cemetery, also located in the city center, so that Orthodox Christians can celebrate their Christian holidays or visit the graves of their ancestors.
                        No need to lie and slander!
                      6. 0
                        27 December 2023 20: 27
                        Haven't all the Russians been driven out yet?
                        Not yet evening…
                        And they don’t sit there on mats “50 thousand Christians”, like in Moscow for Ramodan
                        Well, by the way, it’s written together
                2. +3
                  26 December 2023 17: 52
                  Quote: Memfis 05
                  Yes, they are completely insolent - they build houses for you, repair roads and clean up your crap!

                  Well, someone needs to clean up the crap, since the intellect is unable to do other work. And they are treated well until they begin to violate the laws of the country they came to.
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                      4. +8
                        27 December 2023 10: 47
                        Quote: Memfis 05
                        For my part, just facts

                        Do you need an analysis of your “facts”? If you please
                        Quote: Memfis 05
                        Tensions with the Kazakhs began to arise because of Natsiks like you.

                        Complete nonsense. I remember very well how Russians were forced to flee Kazakhstan with their families, what a colossal flow of refugees there was after Kazakhstan became a state. After all, it’s not far from Chelyabinsk... And there are a lot of stories about bullying, persecution, “squeezing” of apartments and other property. They made fun of the Russians as much as they could, and they did quite a lot.
                        Quote: Memfis 05
                        And regarding Kazakh nationalism - whose cow would moo. First, learn to treat migrant workers humanely.

                        But guest workers appeared much later. Because “dear brothers-Kazakhstanis”, having used up most of the Russian diaspora, ruined a bunch of everything that their playful little hands could get their hands on, and there is simply no work in Kazakhstan for all its inhabitants. So they are forced to go to work in the Russian Federation, under any conditions. In Kazakhstan, the working population is about 9 million people, and in the Russian Federation there are approximately 600 thousand Kazakh migrants, and these are only those registered, and those who have retained citizenship.
                        There’s just a nuance - not all Kazakhs come to clean up poop. Many go to get an education (because it’s not so great in Kazakhstan), and then they stay to live in the Russian Federation and change their citizenship.
                        And - no one in the Russian Federation treats guest workers in any special way. They live for themselves, and live, work - and okay. Until they start leading an illegal lifestyle, there are no questions for them.
                        Another question is that guest workers are often paid mere pennies for their work. But the fact is that as workers they are often not equal to Russians, which is why employers have no desire to get involved with them - that’s why the offer is meager.
                        And here the whole question is in the qualifications of the guest worker - if he works there as a taxi driver, a driver, in general - skilled labor, then the income and length of the working day will be comparable to a Russian. And if there is no profession, then things are bad.
                        Just don’t forget that no one supports migrant workers. If you don’t like the working conditions, return to your homeland and work there.
                        Quote: Memfis 05
                        Shame on their descendants, who flushed this country down the toilet and are now arguing over who owes whom.

                        There is no such dispute. The dispute was whether Kazakhstan is a sufficiently neutral country for us to supply sophisticated and latest military equipment there
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                      6. +5
                        27 December 2023 14: 29
                        Quote: Memfis 05
                        And as for the “escaped” Russians, millions of Russians still live there, and for some reason no one mocks them.

                        The funniest argument you can come up with. More than half of the Russian population left Kazakhstan, more than 2 million in the 90s. Of course, there were Russians who, for one reason or another, came “to the court” and were not pressured, and some were pressured, but they still remained.
                        Quote: Memfis 05
                        Russian Natsiks stink about the infringement of the Russian language, and in Kazakhstan it has the status of a second state language. Now the question is: how many languages ​​in Russia have this status?

                        In the Russian Federation, just so you know, there is the status “State language in the republics of the Russian Federation”. Its essence is that the republics that are part of Russia have the right to establish their own state languages, which are used along with the state language of the Russian Federation And this status is enjoyed, attention, by 38 (!!!) languages.
                        And one more thing - districts can set the status of an official language for themselves. There are more than a dozen of them :))))
                        Quote: Memfis 05
                        No - just say thank you to the Kazakhs that they are better than you and in terms of interethnic culture you still have to grow up to them.

                        I will say that you are an extremely illiterate Kazakh :)))))
                        Quote: Memfis 05
                        The fact of the matter is that it is quite neutral, it infuriates the Russian Imperials.

                        Doesn't bother me. We don't care at all, with rare exceptions.
                        Quote: Memfis 05
                        And you won’t do anything to the Kazakhs, they do not depend on Russia

                        You were on a drinking binge in 2022, or what?
                        On the evening of January 5, the President of Kazakhstan addressed the CSTO leaders with a request for support: “Relying on the collective security treaty, today I appealed to the heads of state of the CSTO to provide assistance to Kazakhstan in overcoming this terrorist threat. In fact, this is no longer a threat, it is undermining the integrity of the state and, most importantly, it is an attack on our citizens who are asking me, as the head of state, to urgently help them.” Tokayev explained his decision by saying that “terrorist gangs trained abroad” are operating in the country.

                        Independent and uneducated Kazakhstan:)))))
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                      8. +7
                        27 December 2023 16: 59
                        Quote: Memfis 05
                        I don’t know whether you are illiterate or pretending, confusing the regional status of the language with the national one.

                        I don’t know if you are illiterate, or if you are pretending, not understanding the difference between Russia and Kazakhstan. We are a multinational country, and we cannot have fifty official languages, this is impossible in principle. Only a completely inadequate person or a troll can reproach us for this. But within the republic it is possible and necessary to have a second (or several) languages ​​equivalent to the state language. So our schools provide education in 39 languages. But - within the republics that have made the national language official.
                        The most important thing is that in the Russian Federation you can speak any language in public on the streets, no one will pay attention. But in Kazakhstan, outside of big cities (and even in them), speaking Russian can get you caught in the neck.
                        Quote: Memfis 05
                        So worry, he doesn’t owe Russia anything.

                        Did I even write a word about debt? It’s in your brains that everyone owes someone, and God forbid the debtor turns out to be a Kazakh.
                        I am writing about the fact that you, Kazakhs, cannot even resolve your internal disputes without attracting outside force. You are not independent, and you will not be independent for a very long time, if you ever master it at all. Therefore, the neutrality that you personally flaunt here is very conditional, and can be rejected by you at any moment if the force that you are currently trying to lean on decides otherwise
                      9. -7
                        27 December 2023 17: 14
                        The most important thing is that in the Russian Federation you can speak any language in public on the streets, no one will pay attention.

                        Yeah, of course...
                        I can give specific cases of “they didn’t pay attention.” At the same time, I am not going to make blanket accusations, because people are different everywhere.
                        Therefore, I propose to close the topic of who is better than whom.
                      10. -7
                        27 December 2023 13: 38
                        If you don’t like the working conditions, return to your homeland and work there.

                        Golden words!
                        Give them to the “refugees” from Kazakhstan.
                      11. +1
                        28 December 2023 00: 07
                        Complete nonsense. I remember very well how Russians were forced to flee Kazakhstan with their families, what a colossal flow of refugees there was after Kazakhstan became a state. After all, it’s not far from Chelyabinsk... And there are a lot of stories about bullying, persecution, “squeezing” of apartments and other property. They made fun of the Russians as much as they could, and they did quite a lot.


                        Do you know how much apartments cost back then? The equivalent of several hundred dollars even in the early 2000s. They gave away apartments for pennies because they cost pennies.

                        But guest workers appeared much later. Because “dear brothers-Kazakhstanis”, having used up most of the Russian diaspora, ruined a bunch of everything that their playful little hands could get their hands on, and there is simply no work in Kazakhstan for all its inhabitants. So they are forced to go to work in the Russian Federation, under any conditions. There are about 9 million working-age people in Kazakhstan, and approximately 600 thousand Kazakh migrants in the Russian Federation, and these are only those counted, and those who have retained citizenship.


                        Officially, 167 thousand citizens of Kazakhstan work in the Russian Federation. And most of them are ethnic Russians who have not yet received citizenship.
                        Kazakh guest workers are not janitors and taxi drivers, but shift workers, miners in the north. Compare this with 3 million Uzbeks, 1.5 million Tajiks and a million Kyrgyz. Moreover, these peoples go to the Russian Federation not only as gasters, but also remain for permanent residence.
                        By the way, 62 thousand Russian citizens work in Kazakhstan.

                        There’s just a nuance - not all Kazakhs come to clean up poop. Many go to get an education (because it’s not so great in Kazakhstan), and then they stay to live in the Russian Federation and change their citizenship.


                        There are students, but again, most of them are ethnic Russians and they are the ones who remain in the Russian Federation.
                        Look at the statistics on the number of Kazakhs in the Russian Federation. Over the past 20 years it has only been falling.
                      12. 0
                        29 December 2023 12: 48
                        Quote: Zymran
                        Officially, 167 thousand citizens of Kazakhstan work in the Russian Federation.

                        But according to analysts, the Kazakhs are simply being cunning. Both countries are in an economic union, and people do not need a visa to enter the Russian Federation. Many do not register anywhere. Therefore, the exact number of Kazakh migrants in Russia cannot be calculated.
                        Based on figures and surveys of Kazakhs themselves, going to Russia for low-skilled work is not profitable. There is such work in our homeland too. The difference in wages is eaten up by housing prices. However, this does not apply to highly qualified employees. Educated Kazakhs, as a rule, tend to go abroad. Russia is the most accessible country in this regard.
                      13. 0
                        4 January 2024 20: 50
                        In Omsk, people who look like Kazakhs bought up almost the entire Old Kirovsk - an entire district
                      14. 0
                        5 January 2024 11: 48
                        Is it okay that Kazakhs have been living in the Omsk region since the 18th century?
                      15. +3
                        27 December 2023 12: 17
                        And what kind of tribe will you be? What class and origin do you consider yourself to be?
                    2. +3
                      26 December 2023 19: 30
                      Quote: Memfis 05
                      It’s always funny to see how the descendants of peasant cattle, whom the Bolsheviks washed of manure, taught to write and sent to the cities, now feel like lesser men.

                      And that the Bolsheviks fell into Russia from the moon? Or did they come from Kazakhstan? laughing Although... no, such a country did not exist then. request
                      The “peasant cattle” ended up in the cities due to the growth of industrial capitalism in the Republic of Ingushetia, and not at the will of the Bolsheviks. It was the urban proletariat of former peasants that was the support of the Bolsheviks and, to a large extent, their “forge of personnel.”
                      I’ll tell you again, Cairo, you are a poorly educated person, and even with a national inferiority complex. These are the kind of people who grow into convinced Nazis, for whom strangers are to blame for all their troubles, but not them. The story with Ukraine teaches you nothing.
            2. +1
              27 December 2023 13: 04
              taarisch major you are burning wildly))) it’s stupid to probe the mood on this site, everyone here is from the right and from the left are patriots)
          2. +3
            26 December 2023 17: 56
            Quote from Mazunga
            Do you really want to supply the Kazakhs with the latest aircraft at fraternal prices)))?

            Why not? The profit, even at “brotherly” prices, is considerable, and threats from a couple of squadrons with poorly trained crews...
            A holy place is never empty, if we don’t sell, someone else will, and if you have to fight, it’s better to know in advance all the strengths and weaknesses of the enemy’s equipment - which is easiest to do by selling yours
        2. +3
          26 December 2023 14: 34
          Quote: Amateur
          including the Kazakh and Uzbek ones, they need a light fighter-bomber and preferably a single-engine one,

          How do you know what the Kazakhs and Uzbeks need? Or is this from the “I think so” section?

          Because:
          1. The size of countries does not require security zones of many thousands of kilometers.
          2. The economy does not allow maintaining aircraft that are power-hungry. Skomorokhov pretends to compare the price, but he is either unaware or hides that the 20-25 year lifespan of the aircraft with all the accompanying upgrades, spare parts, and equipment costs tens of times more than the purchase of the aircraft itself. And therefore, economical aircraft that are inexpensive to operate are just what the doctor ordered for countries such as Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan.
      2. +1
        26 December 2023 10: 14
        Is our engine of the second stage already ready so that we can do something based on it?
        1. +2
          26 December 2023 13: 37
          We have Al41F1 which is not yet on Su30
      3. +3
        26 December 2023 17: 48
        Vasily, Happy New Year!
        But you have a contradiction
        Quote: ramzay21
        we need a light fighter-bomber and a better single-engine one

        и
        Quote: ramzay21
        modernized MiG-29 generation 4++ which is called MiG-35

        The MiG-35 is not light and not single-engine
        1. 0
          27 December 2023 12: 12
          What will we compare it with in terms of ease?
          1. 0
            27 December 2023 12: 55
            Quote from shurshun
            What will we compare it with in terms of ease?

            With light single-engine fighters :)))
            MiG-35 empty weight - 11 t
            F-16 - 9-10 t
            Gripen - 7,1 t
            1. 0
              27 December 2023 14: 02
              With light single-engine fighters :)))
              MiG-35 empty weight - 11 t
              F-16 - 9-10 t
              Gripen - 7,1 t


              And Rafal - 10 tons and two engines.))
              Do you have any other arguments regarding “lightness and single-engine”?!))
      4. 0
        26 December 2023 18: 45
        A single-engine aircraft has both pros and cons. Here you still have to think hard about what is better. For daily use - without war, a single-engine is better. For war, a twin-engine is better. But the Uzbeks have cheerful neighbors across the river, so they don’t have to count on the fact that the war is somewhere far away. Not to mention the price and complete retraining of everything l/s, which will cost a pretty penny!)))
      5. 0
        4 January 2024 17: 53
        Why will we experience difficulties if we do not have single-engine aircraft?
    2. +3
      26 December 2023 12: 45
      What fight? Dassault Aviation has export orders for decades to come. They are already unable to fulfill orders and are forced to expand production.
      that production will increase to a "cadence of three" aircraft in the coming years. Dassault's current production capacity is two Rafales per month. “There are so many orders that we will have to accelerate to meet contract deadlines in the coming years,” Trapier said.

      https://www.aeroflap.com.br/ru/%D0%A3%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%85-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%B6-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%82-%D0%BA-%D1%83%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8E-%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B0-Rafale./
      1. 0
        28 December 2023 00: 07
        So he took and ruined the entire premise of the article. laughing
      2. 0
        28 December 2023 10: 25
        And what are the huge orders? Supplies for the French Armed Forces have ended, but for India they have not begun. Who else wants to buy a Rafale?
        1. +1
          28 December 2023 10: 33
          Can you read? Learn to use the Internet...
          1. 0
            28 December 2023 10: 38
            Is this some kind of humor?))) you list the facts))) you don’t have to list them - they don’t exist. Therefore, the French are now bringing suitcases of money to New Delhi so that they can buy their bullshit)))
            1. 0
              28 December 2023 10: 40
              I gave you the link. Learn to read...They want to produce 36 Rafales per year, or maybe 24...For how many years they have orders, count...
              1. 0
                28 December 2023 10: 48
                Specific facts - firm contracts and implied options? Everything else is “fairy tales of Grandfather Erema”))))
    3. -1
      27 December 2023 14: 11
      And the author also provides a translation of what a cadet needs to do in case of a fire at height, but is this exactly what ours translated? What is the word FILL in the picture, I don’t remember such a word in Russian, but you comrades?
  2. +2
    26 December 2023 05: 04
    If Uzbekistan got the Tashken Aircraft Plant from the USSR

    This plant produced only transport aircraft. Now, it seems, Korean cars are assembled there
  3. -5
    26 December 2023 05: 19
    Macron was killed by a radio-controlled fart.
  4. -4
    26 December 2023 06: 32
    President Macron himself visited Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan

    Our border with Kazakhstan is about 7 thousand km. What kind of weapons could there be from France?
  5. +7
    26 December 2023 07: 40
    In general, the French know how to do things; only a narrow-minded person would dispute this. The electronics alone are worth it, which by the way we bought for the army and praised. But, of course, they are not shy about bending the price, although they are shy, the backward ones cannot have their own, so they will charge dearly.
  6. -5
    26 December 2023 07: 53
    at the same speed

    Rafale M1,8
    Su30 M2.
    Rafal has unregulated air intakes, so the M1,8 is also highly questionable.
    1. +1
      26 December 2023 14: 37
      Quote: Grossvater
      at the same speed

      Rafale M1,8
      Su30 M2.
      Rafal has unregulated air intakes, so the M1,8 is also highly questionable.

      Who needs top speed?
      Can at least one retired combat pilot tell you that he squeezed the maximum speed out of his Su-5 27 times during his career?
      I know a couple of dozen pilots who have never flown at maximum speed.
      Never.
      1. +4
        26 December 2023 15: 15
        Quote: SovAr238A
        I know a couple of dozen pilots who have never flown at maximum speed.
        Never.

        I don’t know where you got this information from, but in all KBP (combat training courses) there are flight exercises for acceleration and ceiling, which, according to the KBP, must be done regularly. I don’t know the truth about Transport Aviation or anything else, but in fighter and fighter-bomber aviation this is a requirement.
      2. osp
        +1
        26 December 2023 18: 02
        So the Su-34 also has unregulated air intakes and the ARV-40A automatic for their adjustment is missing.
        Therefore, the maximum speed of this bomber is lower than that of the Su-27.
      3. 0
        28 December 2023 10: 28
        How long did these couple of dozen fight?))) maximum speed is a very important parameter, it allows you to arrive at a given point in the shortest possible time. There may be a magnificent airplane - F - 16, F - 18, "Rafal", "Grippen", etc., but if it does not arrive in time, why is it needed?)))
  7. -3
    26 December 2023 08: 06
    I read somewhere that the Su-30 is supplied to Kazakhstan for the same price as our VKS. So what kind of Rafales are there or so on?!
  8. +3
    26 December 2023 08: 51
    In recent years, France's position in the arms market has been strengthening, while Russia's has been weakening. Share of countries in arms exports:
    -Russia: 2012-2016: 24%; 2017-2021: 19%,
    -France: 2012-2016: 6.4%; 2017-2021: 11%

    https://www.sipri.org/sites/default/files/2022-03/fs_2203_at_2021.pdf

    And this is before the SVO, the impact of which on sales is negative in the long term:
    -capacities are needed to produce aircraft for the needs of the army
    - aviation, despite its 10-fold numerical superiority, has not been able to suppress the air defense of the Ukrainian Armed Forces since April 2022. planes carry out strikes without crossing the line of contact. This is anti-advertising.
  9. +1
    26 December 2023 09: 22
    And yet, whatever one may say, the Rafal is a quite good plane, and in some ways even stronger than the Sushi, and this is worth admitting. And the fact that we have been dumping our weapons has long been no secret to anyone, but this cannot last indefinitely. And rarely does anyone rearm at once, so that neither the MT base, nor the support, nor the equipment, etc. are ready. So it’s possible we’ll see the “French” on Wed. Asia.
  10. 0
    26 December 2023 09: 41
    Author, of course you know that the purchase of weapons is, first of all, a political issue
    that’s why the Kazakhs behaved this way - considering our reaction, moreover, the reasons for such behavior will not be visible to us...
    with the Indians, the situation is almost the same, but there is also a lobby there that is not shy about “taking” - when everyone knows about it, so they “settled” the deal
  11. +7
    26 December 2023 10: 42
    And Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan could well try to replace Russian planes with French ones, but... But for this, the republics would have to have two things: a lot of money and trained personnel. It is doubtful that our neighbors have both. So the Rafales, which “flew” past the Kazakh budget, will most likely “fly” past the cash register in Uzbekistan.

    The author was too hasty with his conclusions, at least for Kazakhstan. Because if the “cycle” continues in the same style and writes an article about a battle in the skies of Central Asia for transport aircraft, then the conclusions will have to be completely opposite, since Kazakhstan has already bought eight Airbus C295 from Airbus (a ninth has been ordered) and two Airbus A400M Atlas ( The contract has been signed and the aircraft will be delivered next year). Obviously, money and personnel were found.
    And even earlier, in 2011, both money and personnel were found to create a joint venture with Airbus Helicopters (with equal share participation) Eurocopter. By the way, then the presidents also agreed - Nazarbayev and Sarkozy. Today, Eurocopter Kazakhstan Engineering successfully operates, offering the sale of helicopters, assembly and maintenance of H125, H130, EC145, H145 helicopters, training of technical personnel and pilots in Russian and English in the CIS and Central Asia.
    And even earlier, the Kazakhs found money and personnel and created Air Astana and for more than twenty years have been successfully operating three dozen imported aircraft Boeing 767-300ER, Airbus A320neo, Airbus A321, Airbus A321neo, Airbus A321neo LR , and Embraer E190-E2.
    As we see, in the field of civil, transport aviation and helicopters, Kazakhstan cooperates with the French quite successfully. There are personnel and money. By the way, Kazakhs are not shy about attracting foreign personnel if necessary. The president of Air Astana is Englishman Peter Foster. By the way, in 2015 Peter Foster was awarded the title of Officer of the Order of the British Empire (OBE) for his services to the development of British aviation in Kazakhstan.
    So, as “Comrade Saakhov” said: “There is no need to rush.”
  12. +2
    26 December 2023 10: 52
    Quote from AdAstra
    something even stronger than dryers

    For example?
  13. +5
    26 December 2023 11: 13
    The Su30SM is an aircraft that is already outdated in terms of avionics and cannot be sold. The Su35S avionics is still modern, but it won’t be for long. Rafal, like F16blok72, F15EX - modernity ;++ with 5th generation avionics. This is what our Su30 and Su35 and Su34 should be brought to. Without AFAR, an aircraft can only be sold to the Aerospace Forces.
    And the expensive Su57 avionics will become cheaper with mass production and installation on the 4th generation.
  14. -2
    26 December 2023 11: 38
    Quote: Zaurbek
    The Su30SM is an aircraft that is already outdated in terms of avionics and cannot be sold.

    Wrong answer.
    The only, very doubtful, advantage of the Rafal is less visibility in a strictly frontal projection. Very strictly frontal!
    Actually, this is the only reason why the French decided to use an unregulated air intake. This makes it easier to make it unnoticeable. They paid for this with serious restrictions on aerodynamics, especially when maneuvering at high speeds. By the way, the shorter flight range comes from there too.
    1. 0
      26 December 2023 12: 31
      Rafale has modern avionics with AFAR. And it can fully bomb with an aiming container.
      Su30 has PFAR (old style)
    2. 0
      26 December 2023 14: 40
      Quote: Grossvater
      Quote: Zaurbek
      The Su30SM is an aircraft that is already outdated in terms of avionics and cannot be sold.

      Wrong answer.
      The only, very doubtful, advantage of the Rafal is less visibility in a strictly frontal projection. Very strictly frontal!
      Actually, this is the only reason why the French decided to use an unregulated air intake. This makes it easier to make it unnoticeable. They paid for this with serious restrictions on aerodynamics, especially when maneuvering at high speeds. By the way, the shorter flight range comes from there too.

      How strange it is to read about the limited maneuverability of Rafael, who is dedicated to the F-22 in the BVB...
      1. 0
        27 December 2023 02: 17
        Quote: SovAr238A
        How strange it is to read about the limited maneuverability of Rafael, who is dedicated to the F-22 in the BVB...

        F-22 with drop tanks. There on the right on the Rafal HUD you can see all the maneuvering there.
        ZY He is Rafale - Rafal, not Rafael, not Raphael, not Raffael.
        1. +1
          27 December 2023 09: 02
          The Americans announced the PTB, but the video shows that the Raptor is without a PTB.
          1. 0
            27 December 2023 21: 30
            Quote: Maxim G
            The Americans announced the PTB, but the video shows that the Raptor is without a PTB.

            This is not visible in the video. And this is a suitable explanation for why the F-22 played giveaway. The right side of the Rafale HUD clearly shows that there was no serious maneuvering.
            1. 0
              28 December 2023 07: 25
              The Raptor's tanks are located along the wing, 2 or 4 (judging by the materials that can be found in open sources), while if you look at the plane from above or below, the tanks noticeably protrude beyond the leading edge of the wing; this is not seen in the video.
              Those. aircraft without PTB.
              1. 0
                30 December 2023 21: 53
                Quote: Maxim G
                The Raptor's tanks are located along the wing, 2 or 4 (judging by the materials that can be found in open sources), while if you look at the plane from above or below, the tanks noticeably protrude beyond the leading edge of the wing; this is not seen in the video.
                Those. aircraft without PTB.

                So I am writing to you about this video:
                Quote: Maxim G
                The right side of the Rafale HUD clearly shows that there was no serious maneuvering.

                The presence of tanks on the F-22 is a completely reasonable explanation for this. Or the F-22 was just “playing the fool.”
                1. 0
                  31 December 2023 08: 32
                  What's reasonable?
                  If the video shows that the F-22 does not have a PTB.
                  Or the F-22 was just “playing the fool.”

                  Or he cannot conduct maneuverable combat.

                  Regarding the diameter of the radar antenna, there are also Typhoon, Gripen, Mirage 2000, F-16, MiG-29, etc. also small fighters.
                  Probably with a small antenna.
                2. nks
                  0
                  5 January 2024 23: 04
                  Quote: Comet
                  The right side of the Rafale HUD clearly shows that there was no serious maneuvering.

                  The video clearly shows that the F-22 was without a PTB.


                  Quote: Comet
                  Or the F-22 was just “playing the fool.”

                  please tell me why he did this?
                  The raptor pilot fought as he was taught - he worked on the verticals, realizing the power of his engines. But he did not know about the high maneuverability of the Rafale and the ability to flexibly change the direction of flight in a wide range of speeds.
                  In general, you need to understand that a training BVB is, of course, a big convention and in it the pilot’s factor is enhanced. In addition, an important factor is the methods of conducting airborne warfare, which are given to pilots in training. Therefore, almost all Rafale pilots say that one of the easiest opponents in training BVB are typhoons, and not because they are so bad, but precisely because of the methodology they give
                  Eurofighter pilots in training.

                  In this case, this training battle during the exercises in the UAE is notable for the fact that the Rafale not only defeated the raptor, but simply declassed it
                  -- first I locked it on fox3, then on fox2, and then with a gun. I believe that next time, being more familiar with the Rafale, the f-22 pilots will not lose so devastatingly.
                  Another thing is that the real (albeit hypothetical situation) chances of the F22 against the Rafale both before entering the BVB and in it are still less due to the Rafale’s advantage in avionics and armament.

                  PS: By the way, a lesser-known fact is that at the same exercises, a little earlier, an Emirati pilot on an m2000 caught an f22 with a cannon, but again, I repeat, a training BVB is such a thing...
                  1. 0
                    6 January 2024 18: 31
                    Quote: nks
                    The raptor pilot fought as he was taught - he worked on the verticals, realizing the power of his engines. But he did not know about the high maneuverability of the Rafale and the ability to flexibly change the direction of flight in a wide range of speeds.

                    Look on the right side of the Rafale HUD. It is clearly visible there that there is no serious maneuvering. And this does not correspond to the tactics of the F-22 in the BVB, based on its aerodynamics.
                    Quote: nks
                    that the real (albeit hypothetical situation) chances of the F22 against the Rafale both before entering the BVB and in it are still less due to the Rafale’s advantage in avionics and armament.

                    Does Rafal have an advantage in avionics over the F-22? Compare the diameters of the radar blades. And it’s unclear about weapons.
                    Quote: nks
                    PS: By the way, a lesser-known fact is that at the same exercises, a little earlier, an Emirati pilot on an m2000 caught an f22 with a cannon,

                    The tailless is a specific thing in the BVB. If you are prepared for its specifics, then the M2000 can fight on any normal fighter with 4th generation aerodynamics (vortex). But if you don’t know this specificity, you can get into trouble.
                    ZY I saw Rafale in the air more than once from different points.
    3. +1
      26 December 2023 20: 25
      An adjustable air intake increases the weight of the aircraft, but does not provide any special advantages at speeds up to 1,8 M (in the case of the Rafal).
      By the way, it is S-shaped.

      This is in addition to reducing the EPR.

      Well, Rafal has less ESR from the side projection, because it itself is smaller than the Su-27 family, composite materials are widely used, canopy materials that reduce visibility, sawtooth edges, etc.
    4. nks
      0
      26 December 2023 23: 14
      Quote: Grossvater
      Actually, this is the only reason why the French decided to use an unregulated air intake. This makes it easier to make it unnoticeable.

      No, that’s not why - it increases reliability, reduces weight and maintenance, the same with a non-retractable refueling boom. Serious restrictions on "aerodynamics, especially when maneuvering at high speeds." the Rafale just doesn’t - it is the only fighter in the world that demonstrates maneuvering with an overload of up to 11G.
      By the way, it can do 2M too - it’s just not designed for long-term flight at such speeds. (Similarly with the ceiling). The stealth of the raffle is ensured by a set of measures
      1. 0
        27 December 2023 01: 55
        Quote: nks
        the Rafale just doesn’t - it is the only fighter in the world that demonstrates maneuvering with an overload of up to 11G.

        How is this the only one? Any fighter with a normal circuit can be brought to this overload.
        1. nks
          0
          27 December 2023 09: 54
          Anyone can “deduce to”, but to deduce from... :) It was not by chance that I wrote
          "demonstrates maneuvering with overload up to 11G."
          Here's the Rafale
          https://twitter.com/Amitraaz/status/1203283895321427974
          show your "any"
          1. 0
            27 December 2023 10: 38
            The only sane complaints against the Rafal are the short range without PTB, and a lower load than that of the Su-27 family.
            But this is understandable, the plane is light and small.
            1. 0
              30 December 2023 22: 21
              Quote: Maxim G
              But this is understandable, the plane is light and small.

              By the way, because of this, the diameter of the Rafal radar antenna is small. And for antennas of the same type, the larger the diameter, the greater the detection range and angular resolution. Moreover, for AFAR this dependence is stronger than for other antennas.
              1. nks
                0
                5 January 2024 23: 08
                RџSЂRё other equal characteristics (not type) area (not the diameter) gives the advantage.
                1. 0
                  6 January 2024 18: 03
                  Quote: nks
                  All other characteristics being equal (rather than type), area (rather than diameter) gives an advantage.

                  If the diameter of the Rafal radar antenna is increased by 1.5 times while maintaining the design and ADF, then how many times will the detection range and angular resolution of the radar increase?
            2. nks
              0
              5 January 2024 23: 35
              Military aviation is a very complex thing - in specific conditions, different types can have very different and sometimes unexpected advantages, but as for the range and load of the Rafale compared to the “Su-27 family”, this is somewhat different. If you carefully read the Su-30 flight manual (let’s take it, since it’s mentioned in the article), you can see that it can take 8 tons of load only with incomplete refueling.
              When fully refueled, even without weapons, the permissible overload is limited to 7G, so a typical configuration for air combat includes refueling at 50%
              1. 0
                6 January 2024 02: 48
                The publicly available information on the Su-30 is as follows: the load can be up to 10,4 (according to the Flight Manual), and the Su-30MK2 can take 8 tons without restrictions on refueling.
                1. nks
                  0
                  6 January 2024 09: 20
                  What do you mean by just a Su-30, which takes more than the Su-30Mk2? As I understand it, you took “up to 10,4 (according to the RLE)” from the Russian wiki. There is a proof on the Irkut website, where 8t are indicated, but this addition about the mythical RLE without any proof is on the conscience of the authors of the wiki edits.
                  Just calculate the empty weight + fuel + ~ 400 kg (pilot + shells + other small things) + 8 tons and compare with the maximum take-off.
                  The RF Ministry of Defense simply indicates 6t on its website

                  https://structure.mil.ru/structure/forces/air/weapons/aviation/more.htm?id=10364996@morfMilitaryModel

                  Those, even with incomplete refueling, the total payload weight is less than that of the Rafale in all variants, while the Su-30* itself is much larger and heavier
                  1. 0
                    6 January 2024 09: 54
                    Yes, I would like to figure out the combat load/fueling of the Su-30 and the Su-27 family in general wink ).
                    Now, if you go to the web archive on the KNAAPO website (there is a link in the Russian Wikipedia article on the Su-30 bibliography).
                    1. Su-30MK2 Archived copy dated September 19, 2020 on the Wayback Machine on the KNAAPO website.

                    It gives the following information for the Su-30MK2:
                    "Weight of combat load, kg 8000"

                    "reinforced airframe and landing gear design, ensuring operation of the aircraft with a full fuel load and a maximum combat load with a take-off weight of up to 38 tons."
                    1. nks
                      0
                      6 January 2024 10: 08
                      Quote: Maxim G
                      maximum combat load with take-off weight up to 38 tons

                      We loved this trick with the “maximum” take-off weight in advertising materials and not only in connection with the Su-30. Personally, this contradiction always strikes me. In general, you need to understand that no one operates equipment at really extreme conditions - this will quickly lead to an accident, because beyond this limit the destruction of the aircraft quickly follows. Rafale obviously also has a reserve to the limit.
                      If we recall the parallel thread about max overload, then the Rafale airframe limit is obviously not 11G, but somewhere else no less than X1,5 (those ~17g), but the EMDS will not allow it to be brought to such a mode.
                      As you can see, at 11G the EDSU of a regular combat Rafale allows output. There, a friend mentioned the F-4 in a very funny way, but its maximum operating capacity is generally 7G (as far as I remember), of course,
                      that it may be somewhere around 10G, but at 11G it will already begin to collapse, and since there is no emf, the pilot himself must monitor this.
                      1. 0
                        6 January 2024 10: 53
                        I am not at all a supporter of data from the RLE (either for the Su or for the Rafale) - there is a video where you can see what the Rafales are armed with (2018 - attack on Syria), I think you can also look for the Su-27 family - you need to focus on the load with which planes actually fly.
                        And about 8 tons with incomplete refueling (50%) did you calculate it yourself, or is there data from sources?
                      2. nks
                        0
                        6 January 2024 11: 09
                        Quote: Maxim G
                        I am not a supporter of data from RLE at all.

                        hmm, and I am a supporter - this is a strict technical document. Another thing is that we don’t have a Rafale radar manual. Strictly speaking, there is no Su-30 either - I’m focusing here on the Su-27 flight manual, adjusted for changes, as stated by the manufacturer.
                        You must understand that there is no such strict technical term as “normal take-off weight” - it is not in the Flight Manual either.
                        This is an approximate advertising term for a configuration for air combat for which the maximum characteristics in terms of overload and speed are declared.
                        And when a person declares
                        The take-off weight of the Rafale is 1,66 times higher than normal

                        You can stop the conversation right away - Dassault does not declare any “normal take-off weight” at all.
                        There is no such characteristic. There are take-off weights of specific configurations. By the way, they are usually smaller than MTOW for many reasons - including because it is difficult to select the load so accurately.


                        Quote: Maxim G
                        And about 8 tons with incomplete refueling (50%) did you calculate it yourself, or is there data from sources?

                        Myself. I showed you the diagram. The only problem is that the manufacturer does not indicate the empty weight and here you have to make estimates based on different sources.
                      3. 0
                        6 January 2024 11: 19
                        Quote: nks
                        hmm, and I am a supporter - this is a strict technical document.


                        Of course, it is possible and necessary to focus on the RLE. Undoubtedly Yes
                        But I had something else in mind, as far as I understand, they fly on combat missions with a lower combat load than indicated in the Flight Manual. and this is really interesting to compare.

                        By the way, how do you rate Exocet for aircraft, in terms of range, doesn’t the range seem short at the present time (taking into account the development of air defense systems)?
                      4. nks
                        0
                        6 January 2024 11: 31
                        Quote: Maxim G
                        As far as I understand, they fly on combat missions with a lower combat load than indicated in the Flight Manual.

                        In the Flight Manual they are precisely the configurations listed and the TOW is indicated for each.

                        As for Exoset, I don’t know, apparently it’s quite enough, given the Rafale’s ability to overcome air defense. This is always a question of balancing many factors (including economic ones) and you should not take literally the maximum declared characteristics of an air defense system - everything is somewhat more complicated there.
                      5. 0
                        6 January 2024 11: 35
                        Quote: nks
                        In the Flight Manual they are precisely the configurations listed and the TOW is indicated for each.

                        I only saw configurations on the French Air Force website, with Scalps, bombs, etc.
                      6. nks
                        0
                        6 January 2024 11: 38
                        These are not exactly configurations - these are, let's say, capabilities for performing different tasks. I repeat, configuration is a strict and precise entity.
                      7. 0
                        6 January 2024 12: 25
                        It’s clear, it’s a pity that the official websites provide so little information.
                      8. 0
                        6 January 2024 19: 16
                        Quote: nks
                        And when a person declares
                        The take-off weight of the Rafale is 1,66 times higher than normal

                        You can stop the conversation right away - Dassault does not declare any “normal take-off weight” at all.

                        Damn! Normal take-off weight ~ gross weight.
                      9. 0
                        6 January 2024 19: 07
                        Quote: nks
                        We loved this trick with the “maximum” take-off weight in advertising materials and not only in connection with the Su-30. Personally, this contradiction always strikes me.

                        The maximum take-off weight is that for Rafal 24500 kg. It came just from the West, it’s not ours. In the west, this is the maximum limit takeoff weight, abbreviated as max takeoff weight. Our maximum takeoff weight is maximum takeoff weight. These masses are determined by the chassis pneumatic (tire). Wheels and pneumatic chassis always go together. The higher the tire pressure, the higher the permissible take-off weight and the higher the runway requirements. The pressure in the tires of a deck-based aircraft is higher than that of a land-based aircraft. Therefore, by installing a pneumatic (and wheel) for deck-based use, we will obtain a greater take-off weight. And Rafal just has a deck version. Like the Su-27SK, which has a maximum take-off weight of 28000 kg with a land-based pneumatic, and 33000 kg with a deck-mounted pneumatic (compare with the Su-33). It's clear?
                  2. 0
                    6 January 2024 10: 00
                    In the comments to another article, the pilot seems to confirm the load numbers:

                    “Firstly, in the case of the maximum take-off weight (which the French give as the maximum), the combat load of the Su-30 increases to 10360 kg, when fully loaded with fuel.
                    Secondly, miracles do not happen if you check the performance characteristics of the "Rafal" with calculations, it will very quickly become clear that the French are lying. For example, the maximum take-off weight of the Rafal exceeds the normal one by 1,66 times. While the Su-30 has only 1,38 times and even in the case of the limit 1,558 times.
                    If you don’t understand, then loading the plane to capacity and accelerating to the full runway is not a tricky thing. And the Su-30 has more reserves here."
                    https://topwar.ru/224447-su-30-na-pensiju-ili-na-modernizaciju.html#findcomment13786296
                    1. nks
                      0
                      6 January 2024 10: 16
                      Sorry, I don't see any evidence here. Even if this commentator is/was a pilot, then to confirm the data on the Su-30 he must be a Su-30 pilot and state that he did this on the Su-30 (we will assume that we take his word for it), but he doesn’t even declare (or declares it somewhere?) And we can almost certainly say that in the Rafale, at best, he only saw it at an air show
                      1. 0
                        6 January 2024 19: 08
                        Quote: nks
                        Sorry, I don't see any evidence here. Even if this commentator is/was a pilot, then to confirm the data on the Su-30 he must be a Su-30 pilot and state that he did this on the Su-30 (we will assume that we take his word for it), but he doesn’t even state (or does it state somewhere?)

                        nks, did you study at an aviation university?
                  3. 0
                    6 January 2024 19: 22
                    Quote: nks
                    Just calculate the empty weight + fuel + ~ 400 kg (pilot + shells + other small things) + 8 tons and compare with the maximum take-off.

                    max takeoff weight - 38800 kg.
                  4. 0
                    6 January 2024 19: 46
                    Quote: nks
                    What do you mean by just a Su-30, which takes more than the Su-30Mk2? ...
                    Just calculate the empty weight + fuel + ~ 400 kg (pilot + shells + other small things) + 8 tons and compare with the maximum take-off.

                    Max takeoff weight - 38800 kg.
          2. 0
            27 December 2023 21: 38
            Quote: nks
            Anyone can “withdraw to”, but withdraw from... :)

            Don't make up problems. The stick is in neutral, and the overload is released on any aircraft.
            Quote: nks
            show your "any"

            F-4, F-15, Su-27, MiG-29, ...
            1. nks
              0
              5 January 2024 22: 43
              Quote: Comet
              F-4, F-15, Su-27, MiG-29, ...

              Show me, my dear, show me. Your fabrications are not very interesting in this case, sorry. I showed you the proof from the video.
              1. 0
                6 January 2024 19: 32
                Quote: nks
                Quote: Comet
                F-4, F-15, Su-27, MiG-29, ...

                Show me, my dear, show me. Your fabrications are not very interesting in this case, sorry. I showed you the proof from the video.

                The fact that you wrote this means that you are very far from aviation.
      2. 0
        28 December 2023 10: 31
        How much overload can a pilot withstand?))) Have you heard about the principle of “reasonable sufficiency”?)))
        1. nks
          0
          5 January 2024 22: 44
          Quote: TermNachTER
          How much overload can a pilot withstand?))) Have you heard about the principle of “reasonable sufficiency”?)))

          1. In general, a person can withstand up to several tens of G for a short time.
          2. For a specific pilot, like for any specific person, this can be different.
          In this case (again, watch the video) the pilot shows a program with overloads up to 11G
          3. We were talking about the aircraft’s capabilities in terms of maneuverability - this is one of the characteristics.
          Yes, the capabilities of a particular aircraft can often be greater than the capabilities of a particular pilot.
          4. Of course, such a capability is rarely required in combat operation, but in some cases the aircraft itself can save the life.
          1. 0
            6 January 2024 00: 09
            What's the point of an airplane's capabilities if a person can't handle it? 11 G - are you serious? I'm talking about an ordinary average pilot, and not about some kind of exclusive pilot, in the singular. The Japanese and Germans had several dozen super aces, but who won WWII?
            1. nks
              0
              6 January 2024 00: 32
              Yes, yes, there is elderberry in the garden. Once again, we are talking primarily about the quality of the aircraft. And the doctor who shows this is quite a combatant. But in general, of course, maneuverability is not limited to this.
              By the way, this also demonstrates the resource of the airframe.
              1. 0
                6 January 2024 12: 21
                Yeah, and the life of the airframe, like the life of the engine, is by no means infinite. And I don’t think that the safety margin that is included in the airframe’s lifespan is designed for constant overloads of the G 9. Especially considering that these are multidirectional overloads.
                1. 0
                  6 January 2024 19: 40
                  Quote: TermNachTER
                  Yeah, and the life of the airframe, like the life of the engine, is by no means infinite. And I don’t think that the safety margin that is included in the airframe’s lifespan is designed for constant overloads of the G 9. Especially considering that these are multidirectional overloads.

                  During combat operations, one does not care about the life of the airframe. And pilots can withstand overloads of more than 10. Already for the F-4 in Vietnam this was not something unique. It’s just that a generation has grown up for whom only what is available on Internet video exists. And Dassault’s advertisers played on this.
                2. nks
                  0
                  14 January 2024 19: 09
                  You are right about this. But then, it seems, they didn’t understand - this is exactly the kind of regular demonstration on combat aircraft by combat pilots of the Air Force/Navy
                  (and not a test pilot) demonstrates a large resource reserve. Yes, demos at air shows are definitely advertising.
                  Aero exhibitions are generally intended primarily for commercial promotion to one degree or another, but it is the demo flight that...
                  This is a practical demonstration, not letters/pictures in booklets.
                  And the safety margin that is built into the airframe’s lifespan, I don’t think it’s designed for the constant overloads of the G 9.

                  These are all specific indicators. The manufacturer guarantees a certain resource under specified operating conditions.
                  (again, you can read the RLE available in the public)
                  Yes, in normal modern operation such overloads are not required - in basic scenarios, combat missions should be carried out without them.

                  Especially considering that these are multidirectional overloads.

                  This is not entirely true. Look at how fighters maneuver (it’s similar for civilians, but it’s less noticeable) - the plane rolls to the desired level
                  angle relative to the longitudinal axis, and then the maneuver itself almost always goes along and upward relative to the position of the aircraft. And the airframe is primarily optimized for precisely such overloads, and it is precisely such overloads that are best tolerated by a person.
                  1. 0
                    14 January 2024 20: 44
                    Explain to me what overloads act on the plane when the plane abruptly comes out of a dive into horizontal flight? a very common maneuver when leaving the air defense system’s coverage area.
  15. +3
    26 December 2023 12: 39
    The author overlooks one detail, but a very important one. There will be a political decision - the military will take the lead and give the go-ahead for the purchase of Rafales. Despite the price and logistics...
  16. +2
    26 December 2023 13: 03
    if he suddenly has a fire in the cabin at an altitude of more than 10.000 feet, the first thing to do is turn on the oxygen supply

    Turning on the oxygen supply to individual oxygen masks is a completely logical action in such a situation (at an altitude of more than 3000 meters).
    As for the choice of fighter, recently there have been so few real air battles under comparable conditions that it has become difficult to compare aircraft in terms of real combat qualities.
  17. -4
    26 December 2023 13: 15
    Quote: Zaurbek
    Rafale has modern avionics with AFAR. And it can fully bomb with an aiming container.
    Su30 has PFAR (old style)

    Changing the radar is much easier than changing the airframe design. Especially when it comes to such an intimate part as the air intake.
    1. +2
      26 December 2023 13: 41
      Each aircraft is designed for its own flight characteristics and dimensions. Rafale in MiG29 and F18 and EF2000 dimensions. In terms of avionics and armament, this is a very modern aircraft. The turbojet engine is almost like in the 5th generation... Of ours, only the Su35S is at the same level. And sometimes it’s better, sometimes it’s worse. Rafal was developed and launched as the latest of the 4th generation, so its solutions are quite modern
      1. nks
        0
        26 December 2023 23: 16
        Rafal is primarily in the ShdG dimension - the main restrictions in this regard were given by the fleet
      2. 0
        28 December 2023 10: 36
        What features in the design of M - 88 - 2 belong to the 5th generation? Do you know that this is the weakest of all 4th engines, both in afterburner and non-afterburner mode?
        1. 0
          28 December 2023 14: 42
          As far as I understand, the 5th generation turbojet engines differ from the 4th in terms of the thrust/weight ratio of the turbojet engine and its service life.
          1. 0
            28 December 2023 18: 07
            My knowledge of the design of dual-circuit turbojet engines is not very great, although I work at an aircraft engine plant. But from talking with engineers and designers, I understood.
            1. You need a lightweight and high-performance compressor that provides the maximum amount of air at the inlet to the combustion chamber. The French engine has a conventional axial compressor. The power of the French engine is the least of all its closest analogues.
            2. The temperature of the gases at the turbine inlet is now the main problem for everyone. I have not heard anything that the French could solve this problem.
            Therefore, the French M - 88 - 2 is a completely ordinary turbofan engine, and also the weakest. As I don’t remember which famous aircraft designer said: “An airplane is built around an engine.”
            1. 0
              28 December 2023 20: 11
              However, it is claimed to have supersonic speed without afterburner
              1. 0
                28 December 2023 22: 39
                With two engines and a minimum of weapons, this is possible. Almost all generation 4+ fighters have the capability of supersonic cruising speed, without turning on afterburner. At the same time, manufacturing companies do not indicate exactly how long this regime can last. It is clear that not the entire flight time.
                1. nks
                  0
                  5 January 2024 23: 23
                  Quote: TermNachTER
                  Almost all generation 4+ fighters have the capability of supersonic cruising speed, without turning on afterburner

                  Dont Have
                  1. 0
                    6 January 2024 00: 05
                    Which one specifically doesn't? enlighten the dark)))
                    1. nks
                      0
                      6 January 2024 00: 27
                      OK, I’ll write it simpler, although I’m not sure you’ll understand this time either:
                      Serial fighters, demonstrating super cruise F-22, Rafale, EF Typhoon.
                      The rest have not yet confirmed this possibility. The SU-57 will probably be able to with a new engine.
                      1. 0
                        6 January 2024 12: 18
                        Well? What else do we have left in the 4+ category? Su - 27, 30, F - 15, 16 - this is all generation 4. What did I miss?
                      2. nks
                        0
                        6 January 2024 12: 25
                        Unfortunately, I turned out to be right - you still did not understand the elementary statement. It doesn't matter what you think about the generations of their numbers along with all the pros or cons. There are 3 aircraft that can currently do this in a certain combat configuration; the rest cannot. Many people can actually reach trans sound (<M1,2) in a pure configuration. Well, for example, mirage-2000.
                      3. 0
                        6 January 2024 12: 37
                        As you correctly noted, there are only three planes))) I told you the same thing. And the second thing that you also correctly noted))) in a certain configuration. That is, the possibility of supersonic cruising is not a real, combat characteristic, but an advertising and marketing ploy))) buy ours - it’s the best)))
                      4. 0
                        6 January 2024 13: 43
                        All 3 aircraft belong to the latest generation: F-22, Rafal, Typhoon.
                        Consequently, the sample is reduced.
                        In addition, the Su-57 and F-35 may well receive this capability after installing new engines.
                      5. 0
                        6 January 2024 13: 52
                        But Su-35 and 57 don’t belong?))) even Su-35 is significantly younger than European aircraft.
                      6. 0
                        6 January 2024 13: 55
                        The Su-57 is related, the Su-35 is a development of the Su-27 family.
                        My message was about the latest generation of aircraft capable of supersonic cruising.
                      7. 0
                        6 January 2024 17: 12
                        So the development of the Rafale and Eurofighter began back in the 90s of the last century. Another big question is which of them is more modern.
        2. nks
          0
          5 January 2024 23: 22
          Generation is again a matter of this, but in general it is the number of compressor stages and the temperature in the combustion chamber (in front of the turbine), which determine high efficiency characteristics over a wide speed range. In general, this also applies to civilian engines, but there are more requirements for turbofan engines of fighter jets - this is exactly where
          the possibility of non-afterburning supersonic >M1,2 (up to M1,2 is still transonic) and requirements for reducing IR signature.
          Plus the modularity of the design in combination with FADEC, providing flexible service options and maintaining high levels of availability.
          By the way, as often happens, you can cook porridge with an ax - by greatly modernizing the engine of the previous generation, you can bring its level almost to the current generation.
          The same can be said about the GE F4*4, which was greatly upgraded in the F414 version, but it still cannot supercruise. Actually, this is why the Rafale A prototype could not supercruise while flying on the F404, but it could when the first version of the m88 was delivered, when it became ready, although the M88 had a nominally lower maximum thrust.
          1. 0
            6 January 2024 12: 34
            What revolutionary technology is present in the M-88 that gives it record-breaking performance? Apart from general phrases, no one said anything about this engine. Give me a link to some serious resource where I can read this. I’ll read it with pleasure, if I don’t understand something, I’ll ask the designers, as soon as the holidays are over, they’ll explain.
            1. nks
              0
              14 January 2024 19: 06
              I don't really understand what the "record figures" You mean
              As for the rest, I already told you everything in general terms. Take the official specs
              from the wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snecma_M88 (links to the pdf do not work there now, but it is indicated correctly)
              The number (and quality) of pressure-pressure and pressure-pressure stages also ensures its weight characteristics.

              The temperature in front of the turbine for "5th generation" engines should be >1800K. M88 has 1850K. For example, the AL-41F* has 1745, and the AL-31F has 1700K.
              Although, I think you understand correctly that many parameters are tied to the resource. You can raise the temperature quite easily, but the resource will be scanty.
              AL-*, even with a lower temperature, have a shorter lifespan than M88 - those on M88 could still raise the temperature and have a similar resource.
              This is primarily due to materials. R&D, by the way, is ongoing. On Rafales now on M88-2, and M88-4e
              1. 0
                14 January 2024 20: 47
                Who made these measurements? Who keeps records of the operating hours of M-88 engines? How are such temperature parameters at the turbine inlet achieved, if even in 5th generation engines this parameter is lower? And don’t talk about Wikipedia - it’s a trash bin, you can write whatever you want. anyway, you don’t bear any responsibility for what you write.
                1. nks
                  0
                  15 January 2024 15: 53
                  Quote: TermNachTER
                  Who made these measurements?

                  What are the measurements?
                  Quote: TermNachTER
                  Who keeps records of the operating hours of M-88 engines?

                  Technicians. In general, everything is recorded there in FADEC. There you can collect statistics after the fact. As in general, the Rafale is a large computer with a lot of memory, among other things. Do you even understand what you are asking about?

                  Quote: TermNachTER
                  How are such temperature parameters at the turbine inlet achieved, if even in 5th generation engines this parameter is lower?

                  You should first learn to read carefully. I have already written everything to you several times. Where did you get "5th generation this parameter below"?

                  I wrote
                  "should be >1800K"
                  EJ200, M-88, PW F119/F135 have more than >1800 - these are “5th generation engines” in operation

                  Go to your engineer - maybe they will explain it to you or something else. You don't understand what's written.
                  A wiki is a normal tool - you need to know how to use it. I told you - there are official data there.
                  1. 0
                    15 January 2024 18: 48
                    I’ll explain it in a simple way - everything you listed was taken from open sources. There is truth in them, it’s good if there is 10%, but maybe not even that. Therefore, we can only talk about some real characteristics of aircraft and engines that Dassault indicated in its advertising brochures. And in order to sell planes for 120 euros apiece, you have to “lie like an eyewitness”)))
                    1. nks
                      0
                      15 January 2024 19: 32
                      Questions of faith are your own, bring them to church. Why did you come here to discuss this? Out of naivety, I tried to tell you something about technology.
                      1. 0
                        15 January 2024 22: 41
                        And I, are you talking about faith? I don’t trust anyone at all, because I worked as an opera singer for 18 years. And there are a lot of cases where the seller (manufacturer) of goods, including military goods, even resorted to direct forgery. The same, so widely advertised, F - 16. When the first of them came to the Middle East, the Jews
                        We were very surprised to learn that what was declared did not quite correspond to what was declared. And this, I’ll just give you a quick example, but in general there are a lot of them. So, Dassault advertising should be treated with a fair amount of skepticism)))
                  2. 0
                    15 January 2024 22: 59
                    Quote: nks
                    I wrote
                    "should be >1800K"

                    Why not >1900K? Because the M88 won’t fit into the 5th then? Or, if the engine has >1900K, then is it already 6th? And if >2000K, then it’s already 7th?
    2. +3
      26 December 2023 14: 44
      Quote: Grossvater
      Quote: Zaurbek
      Rafale has modern avionics with AFAR. And it can fully bomb with an aiming container.
      Su30 has PFAR (old style)

      Changing the radar is much easier than changing the airframe design. Especially when it comes to such an intimate part as the air intake.

      Oh well...
    3. 0
      27 December 2023 12: 28
      It’s funny, though... a whole intimate zoo from the dry with antique avionics and radar
  18. +1
    26 December 2023 13: 32
    “specialists” from the University of Civil Aviation decided to do a good deed and transferred QRH
    you read and shudder, good word специалисты in quotes, wherever the Federal Air Transport Agency looked: QRH does not translate from words never, it is only from the manufacturer. This is a legal issue... Sometimes it’s scary for the future of Russian aviation - the prosecutors need to work there: cut the dough clean water.
    And the French can be applauded - they are looking for opportunities. It's good that they beat them...
  19. +1
    26 December 2023 13: 43
    A modern fighter is a very expensive toy, and when the time comes to use it against enemies, you need to understand who the enemy is and who will impose sanctions on you and whether your plane will fly anywhere?!
  20. -2
    26 December 2023 14: 25
    The author also admitted that Kazakhstan is hostile towards Russians, and, simply put, is engaged in Russophobia. But Putin arms them, builds enterprises for them, and in return does not even demand to protect Russians. So whose interests does Putin protect and whose rights does he not care about?
  21. +2
    26 December 2023 15: 11
    "quite a lot of real aircraft junk in the form of MiG-29, Su-27" ///
    ---
    Surprised... Write down these aircraft, which are still on the balance sheet of the Russian Aerospace Forces,
    and they’re actually fighting in the Ukrainian Air Force, in the “air junk”?

    If Kazakhstan faces air battles with an advanced enemy, then Rafal is better.
    And if you bomb your neighbors, the Su-30 is better
    1. +1
      26 December 2023 17: 34
      Quote: voyaka uh
      If Kazakhstan faces air battles with an advanced enemy, then Rafal is better.
      And if you bomb your neighbors, the Su-30 is better

      And who is the “advanced enemy” in that region with whom Kazakhstan can have air battles?
      1. +1
        26 December 2023 23: 40
        Apart from the Russian Aerospace Forces with the Su-35 and Su-57 - no one.
        I don’t know what the Kazakh authorities have in mind.
  22. 0
    26 December 2023 17: 27
    Question to the Author...
    So, it turns out that the design of an aircraft with a delta wing is more efficient than ours? And all this talk about 4+, 5+, 6+, etc. - this is a mess, a bluff, a hoax?????
    And if not, then let them buy any crap. This is beneficial for us.
    The whole article is about the money. But you can, in fact......
    1. +2
      26 December 2023 23: 46
      Triangular is stronger. Look, the F-35 is generally trapezoidal. Even stronger.
      For steep turns at transonic speed it is more reliable.
      But worse for speed characteristics. Russian fighters
      aimed at speed, at high supersonic speed.
      And super-maneuverability with nozzles is still performed at speed
      no more than 0.5 - 0.6 MAX. The wing will not crack.
    2. +1
      27 December 2023 21: 53
      Quote: Ivanov IV
      So, it turns out that the design of an aircraft with a delta wing is more efficient than ours?

      The load-bearing properties of a delta wing are worse than other wings. But you can’t put anything else on the tailless, but you can increase the wing area, and the tailless has a good property - self-balancing. To compensate for balancing losses, which are higher than those of the normal circuit, a PGO was added to the tailless.
  23. +4
    26 December 2023 20: 23
    France is very actively trying to enter the global arms sales market with Rafale aircraft.

    The author has been lying in suspended animation somewhere for the last few years. France is not just trying to enter the world arms sales market with Rafale aircraft, it has already entered LIKE something somewhere for someone. "Rafal" is probably the main sales hit of our time after the F-35. Yes, the author himself writes:

    There is information that Dassault Aviation production facilities are loaded several years in advance. Moreover, the aircraft that are still on the balance sheet of the French Air Force, but which could be sold, also seem to be scheduled for buyers.


    Well, with the Kazakhs and Uzbeks, “Dassault” really didn’t have much of a chance. After all, these two countries are the gates of “gray imports” and can therefore count on such discounts and conditions from Russia that they would not receive from anyone else.
  24. nks
    +1
    26 December 2023 23: 17
    Quote: voyaka uh
    "quite a lot of real aircraft junk in the form of MiG-29, Su-27" ///
    ---
    Surprised... Write down these aircraft, which are still on the balance sheet of the Russian Aerospace Forces,
    and they’re actually fighting in the Ukrainian Air Force, in the “air junk”?

    If Kazakhstan faces air battles with an advanced enemy, then Rafal is better.
    And if you bomb your neighbors, the Su-30 is better

    It’s better not to bomb your neighbors, but the Rafale is also better at bombing. Similarly for other tasks
    1. 0
      4 January 2024 21: 06
      Why is the Rafal better than the Su-30 in air combat?
      1. nks
        0
        5 January 2024 23: 27
        avionics, armament composition, and BVB with even better maneuverability.
  25. nks
    0
    26 December 2023 23: 18
    Quote: Ivanov IV
    And all this talk about 4+, 5+, 6+, etc. - this is a mess, a bluff, a hoax?????

    That's for sure :) As for the wing, I'm afraid it will be a little difficult for you
  26. +1
    27 December 2023 02: 41
    The Indians, by the way, are actively modernizing their Su-30MKI and installing AFAR of their own production Virupaaksha instead of the ancient Barca, plus integrating French and their own missiles. Well, all avionics in general.
    1. nks
      0
      27 December 2023 10: 01
      Quote: FRoman1984
      Su-30MKI is actively modernizing and installing AFAR of its own production Virupaaksha

      They are going to install it - they haven’t even tested it on drying yet. But there really were test launches of the MICA FR URVV from the Su-30MK
  27. 0
    27 December 2023 12: 16
    Together with the Rafales, French companies and French (read Western) technologies will come - they may come, i.e. business.
    What will happen with the Su-30?
    1. -1
      28 December 2023 10: 40
      Yeah, they’ve already come to India, but without technology)))
      1. nks
        0
        5 January 2024 23: 28
        With technology. By the way, I already gave you links. Dassault, Thales and SAFRAN have joint ventures and produce products
  28. +1
    2 January 2024 01: 43
    Nothing similar is observed in Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan


    It’s easier for them to transfer Rafales for maintenance and repair to Indian factories than to create their own service base or fly to France...
    1. nks
      0
      6 January 2024 00: 36
      By the way, yes - potentially they could use the infrastructure of India, but in reality it is unlikely that Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan will buy Rafales.
  29. 0
    2 January 2024 19: 52
    MiG-29, Su-27 are not trash! They are still quite competitive, they can only update the sighting system and purchase missiles from the Russian Federation, they can also change the radar, it will be cheaper, and in terms of flight performance they still match Western models.
  30. 0
    4 January 2024 09: 55
    To the author, the MiG-29, Su-27 are far from junk aircraft!
  31. 0
    4 January 2024 20: 55
    Su-27 and MiG-29 are aircraft junk7???
    F-22, F-35 and Su-57 aren’t just junk???
  32. 0
    10 March 2024 14: 18
    Let's look at this "question" from a slightly different angle... France, put by Russia, in one of the poses from the "Kama Sutra", regarding the prospects for obtaining uranium ore from the African region... Now, an attempt was made by France, with the help "tying" to their military arsenals, "trying their luck" in Kazakhstan for the same purpose (buying uranium ore at bargain prices)... But here too - a fiasco! And here, Russia, again, put France in the same position, but through the leadership of Kazakhstan and its Ministry of Defense... France, as a result of this aviation “multi-move”, was allowed to “save face”, with the help of the Ministry of Defense of Kazakhstan, and without much “noise” and dust" to get out of a difficult situation... Similarly, perhaps, with Uzbekistan.... Although...
  33. 0
    22 March 2024 21: 34
    Greedy but know when to stop. and lie in moderation, otherwise you’ll first buy a Rafale and then buy tankers, but they don’t fit Su and Tejas and the sleeve comes out unsewn...