How many Daggers does Gerald Ford need?

255
How many Daggers does Gerald Ford need?

On one very patriotic resource (perhaps even more patriotic than ours), I came across a very heated discussion of a rather strange topic. The people were beating their chests, breaking their keyboards and psyches, juggling expert opinions (and the armchair experts there are even scarier than ours for sure) in attempts to agree on how many MiG-31K regiments would be needed in order to break through the defenses and drown to hell the American tub like "Gerald Ford" the next time he pops into the Mediterranean.

So, the task presented itself like this: an American Ford-class aircraft carrier, naturally with a warrant, since they don’t sail alone, in the Mediterranean Sea. It is clear that in its eastern part, the western part is not at all interesting to us. And this Ford needs to be stuck with a number of Daggers. Let's put it this way: the maximum sufficient to deprive this Ford of its ability to carry out its combat missions.



That carnival that revolved around the topic, by the way, ended in the expectedly stupidest nothing. Screams began: “And we have Pasidon, and we have edren-baton, we’ll beat everyone up anyway.” But some intelligent organisms were present there and were able to make the Brownian motion of the sofas somewhat meaningful.

Fine. "Ford" in the eastern part of the Mediterranean Sea, in the Latakia region. Could this be the case? Yes.


MiG-31K with something so characteristic under its belly at an altitude of 17-18 km above the Black Sea? Easily. More precisely, they are already flying. Looks like they're just patrolling.


“Dagger”, which needs to fly from a point over the Black Sea to the Mediterranean? No problem at all, there will still be fuel left. There are 1000-1200 km in a straight line.


So what's the problem? Well, besides, what will the Turks freak out when such gifts fly through their airspace?

Accuracy


The Dagger has accuracy. Certain. Of course, we won’t believe in the beautiful fairy tale that the Kinzhal’s CEP is 1 meter, but we will take the Iskander, which is no different, but has a CEP of 30-70 meters.

Both of these ballistic missiles are guided using INS, an inertial navigation system. The system has many pros and cons. The main disadvantage is that the ANN is a “thing in itself”. The system itself is simple: accelerometers, also known as linear acceleration sensors and angular velocity measurement sensors (these can be either gyroscopes or pairs of accelerometers that measure centripetal acceleration). And the starting point on the map in the brain of the on-board computer, from which the dance begins.

These completely simple instruments allow you to determine the main thing: heading, pitch, roll. And nothing more is needed. If you need the so-called angular deviation of coordinates, that is, altitude, longitude and latitude, the onboard computer will calculate them without any problems.

In general, everything is simple: accelerometers measure, and the computer counts like hell. After all, it is precisely according to the readings of the accelerometers that she must calculate the point in space at which “it’s time to bang.” That’s why the clock is ticking in the computer’s head, and she, the hard worker, is counting. Accelerations, deviations, errors. In general, ballistics is mathematics in full, and how many errors need to be taken into account...

This is where the CEP (circular probable deviation) of 30-70 meters comes from. On the route up to 500 km. Everything is logical.

And here, as expected, “Dagger” will be more accurate than “Iskander”. Again, mathematically logical, there is no need to calculate the first half of the error, they didn’t fly themselves, the MiG-31K tried.


And the task is simpler: from the “Let’s go” point to the “Arrived” point, and you don’t even have to float your electronic brains at the start, where the hemorrhoids are, because you have to overcome gravity.

So if you think like that and imagine yourself as an expert-like organism, then you could give out the KVO figure for the “Dagger”. 10-30 meters, which is more than decent for a distance of 1 km. But for a 000-kg warhead it’s not critical in terms of accuracy.

But there are nuances.

INS is a fairly accurate instrument if you shoot at a point on the earth’s surface. Which will not run away anywhere, if anything. Moreover, with position correction based on satellites.

But there seems to be a problem with the aircraft carrier. Not only does it not stand still, it also moves in three-coordinate space, because the rough seas have not been canceled. And in order to plant a rocket into it, which goes along the INS, albeit with coordination, you have to be a genius to calculate the trajectory to the meeting point of the rocket and the ship.


That is why ships are mostly hit by missiles with radar homing heads; whether they are active or passive is not so important. A passive RLGSN guides a missile according to the signal of its illumination radar reflected by the target, while an active one generally has its own radar, the signal of which it flies to.

Not our case at all. There is no way to fit the RLGSN into a Kinzhal or Iskander, because for such an operation and subsequent work a radio-transparent fairing on the nose is generally needed. And we, excuse me, have hypersound at the final segment of the trajectory, that is, Mach 10 and even more are declared.

Next is physics. What happens when a huge piece of metal rubs against the air at a tremendous speed of 5 m/s? That's right, dear ones. Air, which is a mixture of gases, begins to ionize! What is ionized gas? Just plasma. Which, as if by virtue of its properties, completely excludes the use of radar gadgets of any kind.

That’s why they aren’t on the Kinzhal. But there are no problems with electronic warfare. When there is nothing to jam in a rocket, you can crawl around with “death rays” in search of receiver antennas for as long as you like, but alas, there is only disappointment and nothing more. And even suppressing the reception of satellite navigation signals will not make matters any easier, because the INS works, accelerometers and gyroscopes, due to their ancient history, do not know how dangerous electronic warfare is. And they will work from that moment, like everyone else.

Because the rocket seems to be modern, but there is nothing that could be used to grab it.

What is there? And there is an optical seeker. Which one is not specified anywhere for obvious reasons. But it’s already clear that it’s either television or thermal imaging.

TVGSN is a television seeker; it is generally designed to work in exceptionally good weather conditions, with good visibility. Allows you to show a “picture” map, but is very dependent on the weather.
TPVGS - thermal imaging seeker. It works on the same principles as TVGS, but in the infrared range of the spectrum, which allows it to be less dependent on weather conditions.

But here is an aspect: both seekers can be used only when the missile is not flying at hypersonic speed. When there is no shield of hot gas, that is, plasma, in front of the rocket. But this is completely different story, because at such a speed of 4-6M, decent air defense systems and their anti-missile systems begin to work quite normally.

But in this case, at lower speeds, yes, you can use the optical seeker. But this is precisely the seeker, the homing head. That is, the rocket “looks” at the terrain through optical sensors and compares the map in front of its “eyes” with the one stored in its memory.

Here the problem is of a different nature: in order for telenavigation to work as it should, it simply needs landmarks. There are a lot of them on land: forests, rivers, lakes, cities, railways, highways. What about the sea? Unpleasant moment.


TPVGS, of course, is more interesting, because the ship may well be in contrast to the aquatic environment, but there are no less pitfalls here.


Some people had an outright misunderstanding of the question. Alas, the optical seeker is not like that of an FPVdrone, it does not transmit the picture to the operator, who can give some kind of signal to the rocket’s rudders and thereby correct the course. Everything happens inside the processors of the rocket control unit.

The “Dagger” is aimed at coordinates that are either laid before the launch, or received from satellites and target designator aircraft, that is, it is designed to hit stationary targets whose coordinates are known and do not change. This is exactly what it is intended for, it is made for this task. Options are possible, but for this, somewhere in the AUG area there must be an AWACS aircraft, which will accurately determine the coordinates of the group of ships and transmit it to the carrier aircraft. Or - yes, the services of a satellite constellation with exactly the same tasks will be required.

But here the main problem arises: an aircraft carrier tends to move. Even if the ship is anchored, it still turns in the direction of the wind, that is, it drifts “around” the anchor, plus it slowly moves along with the anchors, especially if the wind is strong. Still, a rather big vessel. Well, if without an anchor and underway, then everything is bad.

Even if theoretically the satellite gives an AUG point, behind all our airfields where Dalnaya is based aviation They are watching, and constantly. And not a single takeoff will go unnoticed. Will NATO see the launch of 2-4 MiG-31Ks? Without a doubt. Patrolling with "Daggers" over the Black Sea? Yes, this is more serious.


But what happens if the start and launch are detected? In general, of course, if an aircraft carrier is at anchor or at the quay wall, things can turn out very sad. 1 km is just 000 meters. We use a calculator - 1 minutes or so of net flight time. What can you do in 000 minutes? Well, maybe just take care of clean pants.

In the sea, of course, raise the anchor and give minimal speed, moving the ship literally 100-150 meters away - and you will be relieved to see a “gurgle” with a lot of spray. The INS may not be able to cope with the steering, but it will more or less drop the rocket at the coordinate. There will be a ship there - one situation, no - completely different.

The most unpleasant thing here is that the ship can generally move at low speed, maneuvering a little, and the Dagger will never hit it. It's a pity, of course, but that's how it is. The missile was designed for completely different conditions of use. And they, the conditions, are land conditions. Stationary objects of various kinds are targets for the Dagger, but not as non-dynamic targets such as ships.

By the way, the American HIMARS works exactly the same way: ANN+GPS. And, unfortunately, the American product demonstrated its accuracy in full. Meanwhile, it flies much closer than the Iskander or, moreover, the Kinzhal. But - for stationary objects whose coordinates were known. And on land.

Who and why wrote that “Dagger” is able to work on ships is known. Mr. Deputy Minister of Defense Yuri Borisov in 2018 enlightened the residents of the country through the “Red Star” that the “Dagger” -
“...this is a class of high-precision weapons, which has a multifunctional warhead that allows it to work against both stationary and moving targets. In particular, aircraft carriers and ships of the cruiser, destroyer, and frigate class are potential targets for these weapons.”

Then, of course, it all started. A fellow captain said that crocodiles fly... At night, low, but still.

I can’t very well imagine hitting a frigate with the Dagger. There is not enough imagination, but if there was enough, of course, the frigate would come to an end. And the destroyer too, the point here is not only that there is 500 kg of warhead, but also that there is a breakthrough in kinetic energy gained during the descent to the target from the highest point of the trajectory. At hypersonic speed...

An aircraft carrier is a stronger phenomenon. If we hypothetically assume that the 9-S-7760 product hits an aircraft carrier, then there are many options. And in the worst case scenario (for Americans), one product will be enough. Enormous kinetic energy, meeting speed - there is a suspicion that the Dagger can pass more than one deck. Of course, it won’t reach the nuclear power plant, it’s hidden too deeply, but storage facilities are just fine. Especially those where fuels and lubricants are stored. It will be very... impressive.


But in order to actually launch such a ship for good, more than one 500-kg warhead will be needed, that’s a fact.

And here, of course, it is better to use a flock of anti-ship missiles, which, compared to the Kinzhal, have a better chance of getting where they need to go.

It turns out that in theory, if absolutely necessary, 9-S-7760 can be used against such a target as a ship. As an aircraft carrier, God forbid, it doesn’t disgrace itself as a frigate. And the missile even has certain advantages over anti-ship missiles:
- higher flight speed on the final segment of the trajectory, which makes interception almost impossible;
- insensitivity to electronic warfare effects due to the lack of something that can be influenced;
- fast flight speed makes it difficult for the enemy to respond to launch information;

The downside is that the 9-S-7760 was not originally intended to work on targets such as ships. For this purpose, the rocket still does not have a completely (or rather, not at all) suitable guidance system.

That is, when the MiG-31K for some reason begins to patrol in the sky over the Black Sea, the American (British, Italian and Turkish) ships did not strain themselves very much in place of the crews. However, this does not mean that such a phenomenon should be treated without reverence at all. On land, there are no fewer targets worthy of being hit with the Dagger, but many times more. And here the capabilities of the complex have already been demonstrated more than once.
255 comments
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  1. -13
    19 December 2023 05: 33
    It seems to me that it is much easier to dispose of aircraft that have already taken off from an aircraft carrier using air defense means than to try to destroy it at sea. It can be destroyed at sea, there is no such thing as a perfect weapon
    1. +28
      19 December 2023 14: 34
      It seems to me that the author does not formulate the essence of the problem correctly at all. If it comes to attacks on American aircraft carriers, this means that the Third World War has begun, with all that it implies. And if it comes to the use of nuclear weapons, then the “Dagger” with a special warhead can also be used. KVO + or - a couple of km. doesn't really matter. The shock wave and light radiation will remove everything unnecessary from the deck and superstructure)))
      1. -6
        20 December 2023 02: 21
        Quote: TermNachTER
        It seems to me that the author does not formulate the essence of the problem correctly at all. If it comes to attacks on American aircraft carriers, this means that the Third World War has begun, with all that it implies. And if it comes to the use of nuclear weapons, then the “Dagger” with a special warhead can also be used. KVO + or - a couple of km. doesn't really matter. The shock wave and light radiation will remove everything unnecessary from the deck and superstructure)))

        Which only once again confirms all this ***** with those hyper dupers.
        Nothing decisive at hour x
        1. +1
          20 December 2023 10: 33
          Well why not? The presence of “daggers” and “zircons” has a sobering effect on some categories of citizens. I read specialized Western resources, Congress asks the Navy a specific question: how are you going to fight “zircon”? No answer. Congress is nervous)))
          1. -1
            20 December 2023 16: 07
            Quote: TermNachTER
            Well why not? The presence of “daggers” and “zircons” has a sobering effect on some categories of citizens. I read specialized Western resources, Congress asks the Navy a specific question: how are you going to fight “zircon”? No answer. Congress is nervous)))

            What's the point in fighting them?
            They are no different from Ukrainian drones in the Kremlin.
            1. +4
              20 December 2023 16: 28
              Well, how can I tell you? Before the start of the SVO, everyone said that “Dagger” was Putin’s cartoons. When the first ones arrived, it turned out that they weren’t cartoons at all. How to deal with them is still unknown. Let's draw an analogy - maybe "zircon" is not a cartoon either? I agree, one “zircon” is not enough to sink an aircraft carrier. But he is not alone, at least 8. And there is no need to sink him, we need to make sure that the aircraft carrier cannot lift and receive planes. And this is quite possible even after one zircon hit. If it hits well.
              1. +3
                20 December 2023 16: 49
                No one (of our kind) knows for sure where the “Daggers” landed and what they destroyed!!! Nobody! And you can’t believe the statements of the opposing parties either. Chat and fantasize, please, but nothing more.
                1. +5
                  20 December 2023 17: 28
                  If they didn’t get anywhere and didn’t destroy anything, then why are they bringing new “patriots” and NASKAMs? Purely for beauty?)))
                  1. -2
                    21 December 2023 13: 33
                    they are brought for several reasons - 1- because it is a convenient opportunity to shove (sell). 2-they are bringing it as a replacement instead of the previously destroyed one...3-they are bringing it because it is necessary to increase the number of air defense systems.. Quite logical.
                    1. +1
                      21 December 2023 13: 49
                      I’m taking off combat duty in Germany, what should I sell to Ukraine - just like that?))) explanation, somewhere “2+”)))
                      1. +1
                        21 December 2023 16: 39
                        why) do they remove illiquid goods or junk... in return for which they buy buns from the ov)).. like with tanks... for example, the Poles did
                      2. +2
                        21 December 2023 19: 29
                        I haven’t heard about fresh purchases of “patriots” for Germany))) I heard that they are buying missiles from Japan to send to Ukraine, because they no longer have their own.
                      3. 0
                        22 December 2023 13: 36
                        the concept of “purchase” is not the same as what we have with you... when you come to the store for groceries) no one sells anything for real money) but credit, sir, etc.... it’s very developed there.
                      4. +1
                        22 December 2023 19: 28
                        That is, Germany, in the event of some kind of mess, will shoot out loans? Not to mention the fact that manufacturing a Patriot battery kit takes more than one day of work, or even one month. That is, some serious objects in Germany will be “naked” for six months, or even more.
                      5. 0
                        28 December 2023 07: 48
                        They also need and want to test their hardware in the theater of a potential enemy.
                        sometimes think about what you write - what’s simpler)
                      6. 0
                        28 December 2023 11: 10
                        In order to break in, one Patriot battery kit is enough, not 5 or 10. It has been in Ukraine for about a year. I think that all possible options have already been tested. All that remains is to break in the brains so that they don’t get moldy from inactivity))))
        2. 0
          22 December 2023 15: 42
          Why? Just a hyper-duper will quickly and reliably deliver the SBC to the required coordinates. This is not a tomahawk that will fly for an hour and a half to a given point.
      2. 0
        20 December 2023 10: 23
        Everyone thought the same thing before the start of the SVO
        1. 0
          21 December 2023 13: 39
          Not everyone thought so. Not everyone lives in the country of "pink ponies"
      3. -1
        20 December 2023 14: 49
        And if we rephrase it to the opposite, that American aircraft carriers will strike our territories, has this begun the third world war? And is it worth launching a missile strike on them with a nuclear electromagnetic pulse?
      4. -1
        21 December 2023 13: 04
        seriously? Americans are not fools and have long checked all your wishes...nuclear weapons have no effect on ships at sea - the ships are intact - well, something or someone will be washed away from the deck, which is not secured and EVERYTHING
        1. +1
          21 December 2023 13: 16
          Can you explain how a p-n-p transition at sea differs from a similar one on land?
          1. 0
            22 December 2023 18: 49
            Quote: TermNachTER
            Can you explain how a p-n-p transition at sea differs from a similar one on land?

            Well, for starters, the fact that on land this transition is not surrounded on all sides by quite thick metal. We’re not going to compare the “foil” of the REA hull with the hull of even a bad frigate, are we? And between the buildings of the simplest air defense complex there are cable routes lying openly on the ground. And “at sea” the same routes are inside the ship’s hull. So there is a difference. Well, a ship (absolutely any one, including an aircraft carrier) for any warhead carrier, as an object for issuing control commands, is correctly considered as a “small, fast-moving target.”
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. 0
              27 December 2023 12: 52
              Thick enough - how much? The thickness of the side is 8 - 10 - 12 mm, the thickness of the armored personnel carrier is 80, 10 - 14 mm. But an armored personnel carrier can be hidden behind a wall, behind a hill, etc. But in the sea, where the hell can you hide.
      5. 0
        23 December 2023 23: 21
        an aircraft carrier is a huge pile of metal, radiating in all spectra known to science... aimed in a complex manner (and they don’t tell us about guidance systems) - a guaranteed hit. In addition, the essence of an aircraft carrier is take-off, guidance and landing of aircraft; it is enough to riddled the upper part with cassettes - a dumb and deaf creature without the ability to receive aircraft will already receive our anti-ship missiles.
        1. 0
          24 December 2023 22: 41
          Dear Fisherman (Dmitry), I absolutely agree with you! And with regard to the drowning of a carrier, one should (in my opinion) apply the old principle: “Normal heroes always take a detour”...
          0
      6. 0
        27 December 2023 10: 23
        These are fairy tales, it will not come to nuclear weapons, the war will be fought with conventional weapons, this was calculated even during the Cold War, and nuclear weapons are an extreme measure, and not necessarily implementable, the leadership of the country, whose children are in NATO countries, are unlikely to do this)))
  2. +15
    19 December 2023 05: 40
    We proceed from what we know about the rocket. Do we know everything about the rocket? If it’s such a booze, then wouldn’t it be easier to immediately air blast a tiao? A sunken coffin with 5000 is one thing, but a floating tub with 5000 whining men and women is another.
    1. -4
      19 December 2023 06: 24
      And I was surprised that the idea is again being promoted that some kind of harmful plasma is formed in hypersound, which does not allow the use of radar to guide a hypersonic missile.
      And no one can answer, why doesn’t any plasma prevent anti-aircraft missiles, which fly at approximately the same speed and altitude, from using their radars and accurately hitting targets?
      Most likely, plasma formation does not always occur; for example, it depends on the height of the rocket.
      Or, alternatively, due to the shape of the rocket, it was possible to achieve the formation of a plasma cloud only in the middle and rear part of the rocket. And the head of the rocket and the radar were outside the plasma cloud.
      Or, as an option, the impermeability of the plasma cloud to radio emission is increased. And we managed to select a radar frequency that works normally through plasma.
      1. +7
        19 December 2023 07: 11
        I think most of the flight is at altitude, where a speed of Mach 10 simply doesn’t make sense and the air is thin, and in the final section there is a vertical dive with maximum acceleration in the densest layers of air. It seems to me that any communication channels will be clogged there.
        1. +11
          19 December 2023 07: 39
          Quote: dementor873
          I think most of the flight is at altitude, where a speed of Mach 10 simply doesn’t make sense and the air is thin, and in the final section there is a vertical dive with maximum acceleration in the densest layers of air. It seems to me that any communication channels will be clogged there.

          Even if so, given that the missile dive lasts less than 10 seconds, nothing prevents you from turning on the radar at high altitude. Using the radar data, calculate the speed and direction of the ship, and direct the missile to the point where the ship will be in 10 seconds. Such a large target simply physically will not be able to noticeably change the speed and direction of movement in 10 seconds (even if it occurs to them to do so).
          1. +4
            19 December 2023 07: 57
            Mach 10, hypersonic flight altitude 20 km (in the final section, 10 km is covered in 2 seconds), moving target at a speed of 20-25 knots, maneuvering. I wonder how much power the radar must have in order to penetrate the field of the AUG, calculate the future location of the ship when it performs anti-missile maneuvers, send this to the control rudders, and most importantly, these rudders must have time to correct the course of the missile. Because you look at these steering wheels and somehow they don’t inspire confidence in such a matter.
            1. +9
              19 December 2023 12: 47
              Quote: dementor873
              Because you look at these steering wheels and somehow they don’t inspire confidence in such a matter.

              And if you accelerate in a car to at least 150 km/h, open the window and place your palm perpendicular to the air flow and evaluate the pressure on your hand, just be careful, you can get a dislocation or sprain, and at a speed of several thousand km. h. these planes produce forces of hundreds of kg. if not in tons.
              1. 0
                19 December 2023 19: 36
                The problem is not how much force is produced, but how quickly it can change orientation at the final stage of flight when the target location changes. Due to the curvature of the planet, even at 20 km, the radar from the A-50, under ideal conditions, would have spotted a target at a distance of 590 km in the ocean. And there is an antenna the size of a couple of these daggers. At the ukrov, the khimars fell in the wrong direction (and they had to fly 100 km to a stationary target) due to a failure in navigation from the antenna from the shishiga, and then aug. So there's no chance here.
                1. +5
                  19 December 2023 19: 46
                  Well, the rate of change directly depends on the applied gain. And since at the final stage of the flight there are several sharp maneuvers to reduce the likelihood of interception, I think it will not be difficult to smoothly turn in a dive towards a target moving at a speed of about 60 km/h.
              2. 0
                25 December 2023 11: 34
                The tail section with stabilizers operates until the final phase of the rocket's flight; after the start of the dive, it is separated from the warhead and then the direction of fall is adjusted due to retractable grooves. Aerodynamic control surfaces at hypersonic speed, are you serious?
                1. 0
                  25 December 2023 15: 11
                  Quote from Woroshilow
                  Aerodynamic control surfaces at hypersonic speed, are you serious?

                  And you? As I understand it, the understanding that the GDR can only operate while the engines are running has passed you by. And that after the solid propellant motor has worked, control is possible and occurs only due to the ADR too)). And since a hypersonic weapon without quotes can only be considered one that is controlled along the entire flight path, then yes, unless of course there is a divine miracle or magic involved, the Dagger maneuvers with the help of its ADRs made of heat-resistant alloys. What does it have to do with hypersonic rudders, you can say “classic” But at the final stage, when the rocket is decelerated to supersonic, so that after the fairing is dropped the transparent fairing of the seeker does not burn out, not grooves are used (seriously?) but lattice-shaped ADRs, which are folded into the working position ( this is if you believe the pictures where the warhead has its own engine and rudders, because some sources say that the rocket is single-stage without separation of the warhead, or there are several options).
          2. KCA
            +8
            19 December 2023 08: 51
            For such attacks, there are the old X-22 and the newer X-32, this is exactly how they work, the RGSN captures the target 200-300 km away, flies at an altitude of about 40 km at 3.5 MAX, dives vertically over the target reaching 5 MAX, what's the point of being tricky with Daggers?
            1. +3
              19 December 2023 11: 02
              RGSN captures the target 200-300 km away

              Where did you read that? Can you provide a link to the source?
            2. +2
              19 December 2023 16: 53
              Quote: KCA
              What's the point of playing tricks with Daggers?

              The X-47M2 product can be used with various combat equipment: a) with SBP, then the damage radius lies within 2,5-3,5 km (depending on the power of the nuclear weapon);
              b) in conventional equipment: - with an explosive-type EMP device (the radius of “burnout” of the electronics is also not large, approximately 4-5 km;
              - with a high explosive warhead (500kg x 2,7 = 1350 kg TNT!), but here a prerequisite is the need for physical contact with the target (or close, no further than 8-10m from the side) detonation of the warhead, and preferably in the underwater part.
              With option 2 b) - whether you like it or not, you need a seeker. Our latest products usually have 2 channels. At the same time, the IR/UV guidance channel occupies a permanent place in addition to the OLS (TLV, optoelectronics), or radar-A/P. It is difficult to deceive such a “snoop,” because the calculation of data from the targeting algorithm and analysis of the information received is the job of an onboard computer, or even two at once! Expensive, but worth it for the purpose.
              Further. Borisov, being the deputy government representative responsible for the WTO, could not bear the “blizzard” (by definition). Yes, the Dagger can hit large enemy NKs if it hits. But this is the second question.
              That the attack on the target comes from the dead zone (anti-aircraft crater) and it is fleeting, I have no doubt about that. Then the most probable targeting is based on the target photomatrix. She might either optical or pixel radar. The other one simply doesn’t get confused.
              Something like this, colleagues. Yeah.
              1. KCA
                -5
                19 December 2023 17: 00
                Don’t smoke plants other than tobacco, how fast can an explosive fit into an Iskander-M rocket? To initiate an EMP? 1350kg? Wah, and you also need two windings of wire, about two tons, shaitanama, and this is with the mass of the entire warhead being 500 kg, exhale, beaver, exhale
                1. +6
                  19 December 2023 19: 02
                  Quote: KCA
                  How fast can an explosive fit into an Iskander-M missile?

                  Damn, I didn’t even know that you were so “simple”, well, just like a three-ruler!
                  1. 500 is the weight of the explosive, and 2,7 is the TNT coefficient. And it’s not the coolest: there are also coefficients. brisance 3,12...But this is “smokers only”!
                  2. with solenoids and wires - to the 20th century, plz! If you haven’t noticed, then 21 has been ruling the yard for a long time. And the devices in it are light and compact, but nevertheless effective. By the way, take an interest in patents for inventions - authors: Malyshev V.G. (Explosive magnetic-cumulative generator), Kuzin, Zakharsky, Makarov (Explosive generator of electromagnetic pulses), etc. Everywhere there is aluminum, magnesium and other “lightness”. And energy is obtained from shock polarization of detonation products, thermal processes in media and ultra-high temperatures...
                  the device contains elements and components only with detonating equipment (main explosive charge, initiating devices, additional detonators); high uniformity of its action is ensured in any conditions, regardless of the parameters of the surrounding space and disturbing loads, and constant readiness for immediate operation is achieved.
                  Principle of operation:
                  When detonation is initiated in the main explosive charge (equipment) of the device, detonation waves and detonation products, moving towards each other, converge in the central part of the explosive charge. As a result of the convergence of waves and detonation products, an area with extremely high parameters (pressure and temperature) is created. As a result of this, it happens impact polarization and thermal ionization of the medium, accompanied by the generation of an electromagnetic pulse. The body of the device, under the influence of detonation waves, expands and fragments, forming a large number of fragments. The decomposition products of the explosive of the main charge and the plasma-forming composition begin to flow into the interfragmentation space, as between the electrodes, forming a series of damped electromagnetic pulses, both due to the outflow and as a result of the occurrence of secondary oxidation reactions of metal combustibles (fragments of the body, as well as aluminum included both in the explosive composition of the main charge and in the plasma-forming composition) and ionization of the surrounding air environment, since the thermal energy of a gas heated to a high temperature during its rapid cooling due to expansion and acceleration to supersonic speeds is directly converted into the energy of electromagnetic radiation.
                  And one last thing. Don't disappoint me. Choose your expressions when talking to people you don't know. hi
                  1. KCA
                    -2
                    20 December 2023 11: 53
                    I don’t know much, but what does the comparison with TNT have to do with it? For about 80 years, hexogen has been considered the best explosive, until now RDX + aluminum powder have not been surpassed in price/quality, there are probably very expensive explosives, but they are definitely not many times superior to RDX, promoted in Western films C4 is 70% RDX and 30% plasticine
                    1. 0
                      20 December 2023 16: 14
                      Quote: KCA
                      What does this have to do with comparison with TNT?

                      Many are not experts in special issues, but this does not stop them from looking for answers to the questions that interest them. Especially now, in the era of the Internet!
                      1. Since the time of Nobel, a scale has been adopted for comparing the power of explosives in relation to the same amount of TNT (the brisance scale / TNT equivalent). If a new explosive is 2,7 times more powerful than TNT, then such an explosive has a coefficient of br. will be = 2,7. And to make it easier to imagine the destructive effect of such an explosive, it is carried out “to a common denominator”, i.e. to N-quantity of TNT (in kg!)
                      So it turns out: 500x2,7=1350 -- essence: 500 kg XL-30 is equal in power to 1350 kg TNT. Oxogen has a coefficient = 1,6.
                      One of the most powerful “civilian” explosives today is hexa/nitro/hexa/azaisowurtzitane or CL-20.
                      Detonation speed = 9,5 km/s. (for heavy-duty ones = 7,5-8,5 km/s)
                      They may be lying, but at least that’s what my teachers explained to me in the “Kapley” years.
                      Sincerely. hi
            3. -1
              21 December 2023 13: 06
              the main thing is analogueFnet) not everyone is so smart - that one over there and the blizzard overtook the ships with a dagger) but have they ever checked that? or checked against a target anchored in a locked position. I doubt
          3. +3
            19 December 2023 11: 09
            Such a large target simply physically cannot noticeably change the speed and direction of movement in 10 seconds

            still how can
            1. +1
              19 December 2023 11: 30
              still how can

              This one definitely can. Yes, and 30 knots... well, or 55 km/h (15 m/s)
              1. KCA
                0
                19 December 2023 17: 40
                As far as I remember, 30 knots against the wind is the criterion for takeoff from an aircraft carrier, changing the course of such a fool at such a speed by even a meter is tens of seconds, if not minutes
            2. -1
              19 December 2023 12: 02
              Today you and I are dancing... drifting wassat
          4. Ray
            0
            21 December 2023 16: 51
            Making assumptions on the Internet is not stirring bags. There is little point in out-arguing your opponent with abstruse logical conclusions; the Dagger has already been created and this will not change its design, capabilities and performance characteristics. It has hypersound at full range and this has long been stated.
          5. 0
            22 December 2023 18: 56
            According to radar data

            The control center is a complex complex. You can look at the ship movement map (or you can just look at the picture from the article), but now imagine that there is an aircraft carrier among them. At such speeds (10M), how much time do you have to analyze the “picture” from the radar? Or do you think that a cargo ship is very different from an aircraft carrier on radar? Maybe for AI this is a feasible task, but for the “head” in general it’s a rather stupid rocket, I don’t think it can be solved.
            1. 0
              22 December 2023 19: 28
              Well, add here another five or two ships + an aircraft carrier... Will the head of the rocket be able to understand it right away?
              1. 0
                22 December 2023 22: 58
                Quote: Fast_mutant
                Well, add here another five or two ships + an aircraft carrier... Will the head of the rocket be able to understand it right away?

                Of course "SmoGet". This problem was solved at Granite.
        2. +5
          19 December 2023 09: 46
          Good morning . Once in my comment I wrote that it is not so easy to sink an aircraft carrier. They gave me so many negatives. And at the same time, it was argued that Hamas and Hezbollah could fire a couple of missiles at an American aircraft carrier. Of course, it’s not harmful to want, but you also need to see the difference between the missiles of Russia and Israel’s opponents. In addition, it is necessary to take into account that the aircraft carrier itself and the escort ships also have “teeth”. Not everything is as simple as you dream.
          1. +3
            20 December 2023 02: 24
            If you do not use a nuclear warhead, then one hit on its deck is enough to disable an aircraft carrier. But, as the authors of the messages showed, this task is difficult, but doable. From my point of view, first you need to practice on a target (if you have no experience). They have already talked about “flocks of missiles,” but this is too expensive. Once upon a time, I discussed an option to clarify the location of a moving target. One or more reconnaissance missiles are launched with a specified time interval between all of them. They are followed by the launch of an attack missile. The task of the first or first ones is to clarify the coordinates of the target only during the flight and transmit them to the strike missile, while simultaneously acting as distracting targets and forcing the target to give itself away by turning on radio means of its own defense. And then, everything is clear for an attack missile...
        3. +1
          19 December 2023 12: 40
          Quote: dementor873
          I think most of the flight is at altitude, where a speed of Mach 10 simply doesn’t make sense and the air is thin, and in the final section there is a vertical dive with maximum acceleration in the densest layers of air. It seems to me that any communication channels will be clogged there.

          Everything is exactly the opposite)) maximum speed at the high altitude section and minimum at the final
      2. +15
        19 December 2023 07: 21
        There is a great saying: Whoever gives the correct answer will get 20 years.
      3. +11
        19 December 2023 07: 53
        Quote: SergeyB
        And I was surprised that the idea is again being promoted that some kind of harmful plasma is formed in hypersound, which does not allow the use of radar to guide a hypersonic missile.

        Alas, at the declared speeds it always forms. And anti-aircraft missiles fly at Mach 4-4,5 - that’s why it doesn’t form.
        In addition, many anti-aircraft aircraft are radio commands; they decide when and where to turn...
        Therefore, for 20 years they have been working on the issue of at least establishing communication, using the conductivity of the plasma as an antenna - even something has begun to work out... But it’s a long way from a radar...

        But actually there is a solution. If the engine is multi-mode, when approaching, you can reduce the speed to 4M somewhere in a couple of hundred kilometers and aim at the radar... Then accelerate again - given the time of approach, the window of opportunity for air defense to shoot down will be very small...
        Well, about the kinetics of the impact. At 10M, an aircraft carrier will simply penetrate from above. If you manage not to fall vertically, explosives will be the least evil for an aircraft carrier...
      4. +7
        19 December 2023 10: 49
        And no one can answer why anti-aircraft missiles that fly at approximately the same speed and altitude

        Can I answer you? Anti-aircraft missiles do not fly at that speed. The speed of an anti-aircraft missile does not exceed 4,5M; they are supersonic, not hypersonic.
        1. 0
          22 December 2023 17: 29
          Quote from solar
          And no one can answer why anti-aircraft missiles that fly at approximately the same speed and altitude

          Can I answer you? Anti-aircraft missiles do not fly at that speed. The speed of an anti-aircraft missile does not exceed 4,5M; they are supersonic, not hypersonic.


          The Russian S-400 air defense system has three main types of anti-aircraft missiles, the very first of which is the 48N6 missile with a target engagement range of up to 150 km and a speed of 2100 m/s (7560 km/h, hypersonic).
          Eh, but here people seem to say something else.
      5. +1
        19 December 2023 10: 53
        Quote: SergeyB
        And I was surprised that the idea is again being promoted that some kind of harmful plasma is formed in hypersound

        this is how it is formed, this is a fact :))))
        Quote: SergeyB
        And no one can answer, why doesn’t any plasma prevent anti-aircraft missiles, which fly at approximately the same speed and altitude, from using their radars and accurately hitting targets?

        A reasonable question. The answer is very simple. For example, let's take the 48N6E - it has a maximum speed of 2,1 km/s or, roughly, 7,5 M, and it flies 150 km. But here’s the thing, the engine of this rocket runs for only 12 seconds, during which it will fly a maximum of 25 km, and then the rocket flies by inertia, losing speed.
        That is, for missiles that reach hypersound, this same hypersound is achieved only on a very short section of the trajectory, and then the speed drops.
        At the same time, the AGSN missile defense system (48N6E semi-active, I know, this means in general) carries out an acquisition on approach, that is, 10-15 km from the target.
      6. +1
        19 December 2023 20: 11
        Yes, and conducting plasma can be considered as a geometric element
        1. KCA
          +1
          20 December 2023 05: 13
          There were scientific articles, we, and, surprisingly, the Chinese, that there is no plasma behind a projectile flying in the plasma region, and radio communication is possible
      7. 0
        20 December 2023 06: 58
        Air defense missiles are aimed and aimed at the target based on signals from ground or airborne radar stations. The SSTS (tracking and target indication station) is responsible for this at the station. The interceptor missile receives all target parameters via radio channel from radar stations. Further, in order to shoot down a hypersonic warhead, it is not always necessary to launch a missile capable of flying at a similar speed. It is enough to detect the target itself and let it intercept an interceptor missile, making adjustments to fire in advance. And here the interceptor is no longer important; the radar is more important here. Is he capable of detecting, pointing a missile at such a target, and without losing it, accompany the target until it is destroyed? And this is very difficult to do under conditions of target flight speed at hypersonic speed.
        1. +1
          22 December 2023 17: 27
          Quote: NightWolf1991
          Air defense missiles are aimed and aimed at the target based on signals from ground or airborne radar stations. The SSTS (tracking and target indication station) is responsible for this at the station. The interceptor missile receives all target parameters via radio channel from radar stations. Further, in order to shoot down a hypersonic warhead, it is not always necessary to launch a missile capable of flying at a similar speed. It is enough to detect the target itself and let it intercept an interceptor missile, making adjustments to fire in advance. And here the interceptor is no longer important; the radar is more important here. Is he capable of detecting, pointing a missile at such a target, and without losing it, accompany the target until it is destroyed? And this is very difficult to do under conditions of target flight speed at hypersonic speed.


          Then it turns out that all that is needed for the dagger to hit a moving ship is target designation from some flying radar? Well, this simplifies the matter, although we don’t have much of this kind of stuff, but on the whole, such a healthy target as an aircraft carrier can be illuminated by the same MIG from which they fired a dagger.
          Another question is that, judging by the author’s data (hardly very reliable), the dagger has no connection with the radio at all, because otherwise electronic warfare will work against it even if it simply receives a signal from a third-party target designation and does not have an active RGSN.
          1. 0
            29 December 2023 19: 37
            So it is so, but the Dagger still has a certain “radio exchange” with the carrier/target designator. In addition, the signal to the rocket can come not from the front, but from the stern, where the temperature is lower. Although, to be honest, the Dagger was originally designed to defeat targets of a different nature. But again, shooting at naval targets is not excluded. It’s like with an ATGM, the main target is tanks, but they don’t prohibit launching at aircraft)
      8. 0
        22 December 2023 15: 45
        Again, in this situation, it is more difficult for an air defense missile, because it will fly and be aimed in denser layers, and not in rarefied areas where hypersound flies
      9. 0
        22 December 2023 17: 23
        Quote: SergeyB
        And I was surprised that the idea is again being promoted that some kind of harmful plasma is formed in hypersound, which does not allow the use of radar to guide a hypersonic missile.
        And no one can answer, why doesn’t any plasma prevent anti-aircraft missiles, which fly at approximately the same speed and altitude, from using their radars and accurately hitting targets?
        Most likely, plasma formation does not always occur; for example, it depends on the height of the rocket.
        Or, alternatively, due to the shape of the rocket, it was possible to achieve the formation of a plasma cloud only in the middle and rear part of the rocket. And the head of the rocket and the radar were outside the plasma cloud.
        Or, as an option, the impermeability of the plasma cloud to radio emission is increased. And we managed to select a radar frequency that works normally through plasma.


        Good question buddy. It's always nice when people have basic logic! Indeed, why then are anti-aircraft missiles controllable because the speed, plus or minus, is also hypersonic?
        It’s unlikely that we’ll get an answer on this site, because people here mostly argue and shout, but the question is really interesting.
    2. +9
      19 December 2023 10: 46
      Quote: dementor873
      If it’s such a booze, then wouldn’t it be easier to immediately air blast a tiao?

      It’s possible, but in the USSR 8 such missiles were required. Moreover, not to destroy the AUG, but only to suppress air defense with an EMP pulse, and then a strike by two MRA regiments, and the planned losses could reach 80% of the composition
      1. 0
        20 December 2023 02: 28
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Quote: dementor873
        If it’s such a booze, then wouldn’t it be easier to immediately air blast a tiao?

        It’s possible, but in the USSR 8 such missiles were required. Moreover, not to destroy the AUG, but only to suppress air defense with an EMP pulse, and then a strike by two MRA regiments, and the planned losses could reach 80% of the composition

        So here is a conceptual question - why bother hunting for those aircraft carriers in World War III?
        already
  3. -10
    19 December 2023 05: 43
    It would be nice to use our low-orbit satellites, submarines, commercial ships or simply reconnaissance buoys placed in the target area to target American aircraft carriers... summing up all the data, you can probably get more or less accurate coordinates of the aircraft carrier.
    1. +4
      19 December 2023 06: 16
      Poseidon to the Dagger to help. winked bully .....By the way, it will sink or not sink (if hit) An aircraft carrier dagger, in general, is no longer important. Even if it remains afloat, it will turn into a useless vessel. Nothing will take off or land from it, and for a very long time
      1. +6
        19 December 2023 09: 33
        Actually, why is it always considered exclusively the impact of a high-explosive head in a direct hit? In general, it comes with a standard cassette fragmentation warhead, with as many as 54 glide elements. No - it certainly won’t sink an aircraft carrier, but it’s scary to imagine what will happen to all the delicate modern electronics after such a defeat. Even if only a dozen of them explode above the deck. What will happen to everything that will stand on the deck itself can also be assumed. I think that for a considerable time it will be possible to forget about conducting combat operations from this aircraft carrier.
        1. 0
          19 December 2023 11: 00
          It’s scary to imagine what will happen to all the delicate modern electronics after such a defeat

          Delicate modern electronics are located under the armored deck. As are some of the planes.
          1. +8
            19 December 2023 11: 34
            Exactly!! And how did I forget that all the AFAR canvases are actually under the armored deck...
            1. +3
              19 December 2023 11: 51
              Give me a link to the source where it is written about these submunitions of yours, otherwise the Internet doesn’t find anything like that.
              The afar panels are located on different sides of the superstructure; at least half will survive. And there is no guarantee that they will be completely damaged even on one canvas and this cannot be covered via link16 from escort ships. There is no guarantee at all that the canvas will be damaged to any noticeable extent; an aircraft carrier is a large ship, and no one knows where it will end up.
              Not to mention the fact that there is more than one radar there. In addition, there are also Hokai.
    2. +8
      19 December 2023 06: 36
      ..by summing up all the data, you can probably get more or less accurate coordinates of the aircraft carrier.
      What is the use of this "dagger"? the ship is moving.
      1. +6
        19 December 2023 10: 53
        Quote: Aerodrome
        What is the use of this "dagger"?

        No. But no one cares
    3. +1
      19 December 2023 20: 13
      Do you need to read the inscription on board too?
    4. 0
      21 December 2023 02: 34
      It’s easier to give binoculars to Solovyov and Simonyan and launch them in a hot air balloon or blimp. They see so far, know everything so well and are so good at explaining the truth to everyone that it would be a sin not to take advantage of such talents. They will immediately be able to spot the aircraft carrier in the fog of war and explain the target designation to everyone who needs it. And if suddenly the missiles are late, they themselves will sink the ugly aircraft carrier with curses from heaven. And satellites are a thing of yesterday, although they probably cost less than the couple we’re talking about. Not to mention target designation from submarines :)
      1. -4
        22 December 2023 15: 47
        Well, for Solovyov and Simonyan, you can only be calm with their vision...)) it’s bad that you don’t see or hear anything.
    5. +1
      21 December 2023 13: 11
      The only thing left is to put these “satellites” into orbit) to create submarines capable of reaching the order) and your other wishful thinking puffs) and dry cargo ships that do nothing else except export goods from the country)
  4. +6
    19 December 2023 06: 15
    The clash with the Yankees is World War 3, and therefore the exchange of nuclear weapons. Your calculations, Roman, do not take this into account.
    1. -1
      19 December 2023 14: 16
      TRMV is always on.
      Who will win? Not the Yankees.
      And the gnomes are from offshore companies.
      The balance of greed and fear holds the world.
      Aug can also be drowned by the Houthis. Who will allow them?
      1. +2
        19 December 2023 20: 14
        The Houthis will drown the trough for the sake of laughter and fun.
    2. 0
      27 December 2023 10: 39
      Just the same, even with the alliance the calculations were for a conventional war, but in the most extreme cases
  5. +6
    19 December 2023 06: 23
    A ship, and even an aircraft carrier, can weigh anchor in 4 minutes and...
    Yes, you are a dreamer.... I’m not saying that ships don’t anchor on the high seas.
    1. +2
      19 December 2023 17: 06
      Quote from Voronezh
      A ship, and even an aircraft carrier, can weigh anchor in 4 minutes and...
      Yes, you are a dreamer...
      You're right! This will happen much faster: in exactly the same amount of time as it takes to release the RIGAL end of the anchor chain... Yes
      Quote from Voronezh
      ships do not anchor on the open sea.
      Also how they “become”. Because sailors have different “anchors”! There is also such a delight as a “float anchor”: it is made of canvas/tarpaulin, etched at the stern to reduce the drift of the ship (wind-driven, as a rule), when the car is dead, and your “path leads to danger”...
      (horror! Poseidon forbid!) stop
    2. 0
      21 December 2023 13: 12
      seriously? or are you such a sailor?) they also get up and how) if there is no desire to lie in the “drift”))
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. +8
    19 December 2023 06: 34
    At first I decided that this was another “opus” of Mitrofanov. Not his, but his level.
    If suddenly the Russian Federation decides to start WWXNUMX with an attack on an American aircraft carrier, then no one will “shoot” missiles with conventional warheads at it. And there will be an attack with several missiles with thermonuclear warheads, first on the escort ships, and then on the aircraft carrier.
    * If the US starts the war, then the US itself and some of its satellites will be destroyed by a retaliatory strike, but who knows whether there will be enough missiles for an aircraft carrier.
    1. -1
      19 December 2023 07: 55
      Quote: Amateur
      And there will be an attack with several missiles with thermonuclear warheads, first on the escort ships, and then on the aircraft carrier.
      * If the US starts the war, then the US itself and some of its satellites will be destroyed by a retaliatory strike, but who knows whether there will be enough missiles for an aircraft carrier.

      Actually, we propose, but the Lord disposes wink wink wink
      Given the incomprehensibility and illogicality of what is happening around, I would not be so categorical...
    2. 0
      24 December 2023 22: 06
      Why attack the AUG at the beginning of World War 3? We need to attack their bases.
  8. +4
    19 December 2023 06: 37
    Quote: Ezekiel 25-17
    The clash with the Yankees is World War 3, and therefore the exchange of nuclear weapons.

    smile Not a fact and too far-fetched...local skirmishes with the US Army will not be a reason for TMB...here we need something of a higher rank.
    1. +1
      20 December 2023 02: 42
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Quote: Ezekiel 25-17
      The clash with the Yankees is World War 3, and therefore the exchange of nuclear weapons.

      smile Not a fact and too far-fetched...local skirmishes with the US Army will not be a reason for TMB...here we need something of a higher rank.

      Just a fact.
      There is no point in measuring pussies in those “local skirmishes”. Because this still doesn’t give anything conceptually - it doesn’t matter who is who in this “random” batch. Because everyone’s strength is enough to reset (which is without any “weak” and so everyone knows), unlike all the Houthi fighters who do not influence anything.
      The fact itself means everything. Like boxers in the ring, they don’t come out to “participate”...
      1. 0
        27 December 2023 10: 41
        Nonsense, no one will want to burn in nuclear ashes, they will fight with conventional means and it is not a fact that they will use nuclear weapons at all, they would rather surrender to the enemy, either side)
  9. -7
    19 December 2023 06: 44
    On land, there are no fewer targets worthy of being hit with the Dagger, but many times more. And here the capabilities of the complex have already been demonstrated more than once.
    If you hit even some forgotten Romania or Poland, even an airfield from which F-16s with tridents on their tails are hypothetically already flying, this is almost automatically Article 5 of NATO and the Third World War. Even though it didn’t give in to America or the countries of old Europe, they will clearly consider it insufficient to respond to a blow to a NATO member with an expression of deep concern, because, according to their logic, if you don’t react, the next arrival may be in Germany, yes on an American base. Although, purely legally, each NATO country is free to determine how and with what means to provide assistance to an ally under attack. But for now there are enough targets in the territory so far formally independent.
    1. +4
      19 December 2023 07: 43
      Quote: Nagan
      this is almost automatically Article 5 of NATO and the Third World War

      Why are you trying to scare us? You're an American, be afraid! wassat
    2. KCA
      +10
      19 December 2023 08: 56
      Before applying the 5th Article of the country, the natists will gather and discuss for two months, then for six months or 9 months they will collect a fighting fist and only then attack, which is unlikely, well, only if the grandfather is not wedged and he does not give the order for a nuclear strike, although he was immediately hit with a ruler and was freaked out “the president is sick and temporarily incapacitated. He’s working with documents.”
      1. -2
        19 December 2023 09: 07
        Quote: KCA
        although he was immediately hit with a ruler and was in a daze, “the president is sick and temporarily incapacitated. He’s working with documents.”
        Yes, I don’t mind if it ends that way. But the likely scenario is that the “young NATO members” will begin military operations without waiting for the reaction of the “old ones”, and of course they will get the full blows from the RF Armed Forces. But after this they will “get ripped off”, the “old” NATO members will inevitably find themselves drawn in, out of fear that the Russians will not stop either on the Vistula or even on the Oder. And in this war there will be no winners, everyone will lose. If you find solace in the formula “we will go to heaven, and they will just die” - it’s up to you.
        1. KCA
          +3
          19 December 2023 09: 16
          Reasoning not from the sofa, but from a chair, I cannot in any way influence the development of events, and I am an atheist, I can only console myself in a glass
        2. -1
          19 December 2023 09: 42
          [quote=Nagan][quote=KCA]If you find solace in the formula “we will go to heaven, and they will just die” - it’s up to you.[/quote]
          I find solace in the formula - You have to pay for everything in this world! And I hope that the United States will pay Russia for all the nasty things that they have done. And it doesn’t matter how it will be done, by economic methods or military ones! Washington must be destroyed! He is not worthy to occupy a leading position in the world, due to the lack of intelligence among his leaders! hi
          1. +3
            19 December 2023 17: 20
            Quote: fif21
            The USA will pay Russia for all the nasty things they have done. And it doesn’t matter how it will be done, by economic methods or military ones!
            I agree ... good
            Based on the theory that our mother EARTH is a LIVING mega-being, SHE cannot tolerate such blatant obscenity on the part of the Yankees for so long! The psycho-emotional sphere (noosphere) is overloaded with negativity. The EARTH periodically cleanses itself of it, shaking off the “parasites” of the human race from its body...
            Our planet has a couple of “bad teeth”... One of them is Yellowstone! So he will take revenge on the idiots from the USA for all the suffering that they brought to HUMANITY and its home - planet EARTH.
            IMHO.
      2. -1
        19 December 2023 15: 40
        If they do not react to this in the most severe way, then NATO and the United States are finished. Instant complete collapse of the system they built. The US cannot allow this to happen.
    3. +2
      21 December 2023 13: 14
      Truth? but the other day one of our Geraniums just happened to fly into the Romanians and boom... oh, what started... Russia didn’t even have time to say a word like they themselves... this is not a reason to start, Russia didn’t want to and blah blah...) what are you talking about.. what is article 5. at least educate yourself on what it means)) you will be surprised that it is not at all what you think))..
    4. 0
      27 December 2023 10: 41
      They will swallow in silence and nothing will happen
  10. -3
    19 December 2023 06: 48
    This deputy minister openly talked about the secret, of course. The dagger has such a characteristic (working on dynamic targets), it’s just not said. Do not give away the entire characteristics of the weapon.
  11. 0
    19 December 2023 06: 53
    1. Study the goal. 2. Timing of being in motion and anchored (take-off, landing, loading, unloading, port entry.) 3. Selecting the take-off location for the “Dagger” carrier (Who told you that it would be the Black Sea?). I believe that destroying a ship is a completely feasible task, you just need to correctly determine the place and time. hi
    1. -1
      21 December 2023 13: 21
      Do you propose taking off on the 31st from the Kaliningrad region for launch under a warrant in the Mediterranean Sea? there are no other options)))) and where and how should that dagger fly") through the entire "warrant" on European land from US missile defense bases)) brilliant)
      1. 0
        21 December 2023 13: 50
        Quote from Twilight Elf
        and you propose taking off on the 31st from the Kaliningrad region

        This is what you suggest laughing And I propose to think about how to neutralize air defense orders, how to carry out an attack on an object competently and inexpensively, and achieve results. But the Houthis launching 1-2 missiles and 2-3 drones is not even funny. hi
  12. +2
    19 December 2023 07: 46
    Well, I want to believe people, well, let them believe, why take away your dream! laughing
  13. +1
    19 December 2023 08: 04
    Why sink an aircraft carrier? All he needs to do is damage the flight deck properly, and he will become just a huge useless trough. It will have to be taken to a repair base, and the corresponding escort will also be forced to leave with this trough, which will also weaken the forces of the adversary in the theater of operations.
    1. +2
      19 December 2023 08: 17
      Quote: Victor Masyuk
      All it takes is enough damage to the flight deck, and it will become just a huge useless trough.

      Which will be repaired and will again become a floating airfield? No, let it lie at the bottom. To the delight of divers laughing
    2. KCA
      +2
      19 December 2023 08: 58
      There is hardly less equipment for restoring the runway than an air wing, and in less than half an hour the planes will fly
      1. +2
        19 December 2023 10: 05
        They won't fly without a catapult. That is why springboards are more suitable for repair.
        1. KCA
          +3
          19 December 2023 10: 30
          There are four of them; given the size of an aircraft carrier, damage all four at once?
          1. 0
            19 December 2023 14: 16
            All four are gone. But a couple is quite possible.
          2. +1
            20 December 2023 16: 38
            If, as a result of the hit, deformation of the hull structures occurs, the tightness of the steam pipelines may be compromised, and electrical cables may rupture. If a fire starts, the electricity will begin to disappear first, and the automation will begin to “cut off” the lines where the short circuit occurred.
        2. 0
          19 December 2023 10: 56
          There are 4 of them.
          In addition, the F-18 is capable of taking off without a catapult.
          1. +1
            19 December 2023 14: 17
            With what load? What about AWACS?
            1. +1
              20 December 2023 12: 35
              Should it be at the maximum?
              AWACS can temporarily replace Growlers and coastal Avaks. And, it seems, they were talking about the fact that some of the catapults would survive? Then launching drills and limited strikes is not a problem, but in the air defense version they will take off without catapults.
              1. 0
                20 December 2023 16: 24
                OK. Two questions. Where does the energy to operate electromagnetic catapults come from???
                More precisely, how can a catapult consume a huge amount of energy in a very short time??? What's there? Batteries? Capacitors???
          2. 0
            20 December 2023 16: 40
            He can take off, but how long can he drag?))) not to mention the fact that he can take off without a catapult, he needs the entire length of the deck, i.e. it will have to be dragged to the very end (if there is no hole in the deck). But he won’t be able to land without an aero arrester; the run won’t be long enough. And the aerofinisher also runs on electricity. So what should I do?
    3. +2
      19 December 2023 17: 44
      Quote: Victor Masyuk
      Why sink an aircraft carrier? All he needs to do is damage the flight deck properly, and he will become just a huge useless trough.
      Crap! What about the repair and restoration team? Did she go out to sunbathe on AVika? And then, VTOL aircraft are not even whimsical - they can take off/land from a spot. The F-35B will definitely not remain idle. Again, helicopters... A whole squad of 8 units! They can also carry anti-ship missiles... So, if you’re going to sink them, then sink them, period! You can “set it on fire”, it will be even better. For there is nothing more terrible than a fire at sea on a ship...
      AHA.
      1. +1
        20 December 2023 16: 54
        Repair and restoration parties extinguished the Forrestal for almost two days, with the support of the rest of the crew. At the same time, the ship ceased aviation operations. And it was under renovation for a year.
        1. 0
          20 December 2023 17: 23
          Quote: TermNachTER
          Repair and restoration parties extinguished the Forrestal for almost two days, with the support of the rest of the crew.

          You are confusing the FIRE brigade with the REPAIR brigade! Yes
          At the AVU there is an entire unit (in our opinion, a combat unit) that deals with the SURvivability of the ship, eliminating combat and emergency damage using fire extinguishing systems, etc.
          The repair and restoration division is essentially a factory, with machine tools, welding and other equipment. The repairmen, having taken over the baton from the emergency responders (ASG), after they “fight” the fire, are engaged in RESTORING the technical readiness of components and mechanisms. Including “repairing” the deck. And I must say, they don’t keep incompetent people there.
          So, just drown! To be sure!
          1. +1
            20 December 2023 17: 25
            When Forrestal was burning, everyone fought, because the situation was bad and there were a lot of dead.
        2. +1
          20 December 2023 23: 31
          By the way, about a dozen 454 kg bombs exploded there. Like 10 gauge. But he didn't drown. Here is the answer to how many daggers you need!
          1. 0
            21 December 2023 01: 15
            It would be nice to explain why they exploded?)))
            1. 0
              24 December 2023 01: 08
              Spontaneous launch of a suspended V-V rocket. Fire and flames engulfed loaded aircraft. Overheating of the detonator - explosion. Search by link

              https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Пожар_на_авианосце_«Форрестол»_(1967)
              1. +1
                24 December 2023 21: 48
                I am aware of this. I'm wondering who was smart enough to collect all this in a hangar?)))
                1. 0
                  26 December 2023 16: 22
                  Everything happened on the deck while preparing the planes for takeoff. The bombs exploded already suspended, a meter from the deck. And they broke it. Fuel leaked from the holes and a fire started on the lower decks and in the hangar.
                  1. +1
                    26 December 2023 18: 53
                    As far as I remember, the fire started in the hangar. If he were on deck it would be easier. The planes would simply be thrown overboard. But in the hangar we had to wait until all the fuel burned and all the used equipment exploded. Because when they started extinguishing the fire, the losses in HP were very large.
                    1. 0
                      27 December 2023 15: 26
                      The fire started on the deck at the stern among the aircraft with already suspended bombs, missiles and drop tanks. And then he threw himself into the hangar, hot kerosene poured through holes in the deck and the lift shaft. Bombs are not stored in the hangar and are not transported from warehouses. Only on deck. And the burning planes were still thrown overboard. 21 pieces. They were pushing the tractor, there is a video.
                      1. 0
                        27 December 2023 18: 20
                        Perhaps I won't argue. I read about this a long time ago, so I don’t remember the details. But, on the “forrestals” there were positions for hanging weapons in the hangar. The already equipped vehicles were lifted onto the deck.
                      2. 0
                        28 December 2023 00: 35
                        It is quite possible that something was hung in the hangar. To save time and space.
  14. +7
    19 December 2023 08: 28
    moves in three-coordinate space, because the rough seas have not been canceled

    I don’t understand on land whether the vertical movements of a ship with a displacement of under 100 thousand tons are so great that it makes sense to pay attention to them, especially in the “closed” Mediterranean Sea.
    1. +2
      19 December 2023 09: 28
      Quote: Arkadich
      I don’t understand the land

      There is nothing to understand here! One cannot respond seriously to another article by Comrade Skomorokhov. The performance characteristics of the "Dagger" product are classified as "Secret"! Therefore, we either make “creepy” comments about our “partners”, or we fantasize wassat Today is a holiday for counterintelligence, but I think it’s not worth using your knowledge on the site. Good luck to everyone, and peaceful skies above your head! hi
    2. -1
      21 December 2023 13: 25
      well, how can I tell you) it’s probably easier to see
      1. +1
        21 December 2023 13: 33
        Thank you for your hard work, but I could just as easily have looked at the roughness of some boat.
        We were talking about aircraft carriers, with tonnage.
        1. -1
          21 December 2023 13: 35
          do you think the tonnage reacts differently?)) or does excitement have no effect? and is this a piece of foam that is always on the surface? quite the opposite) pitching calmers work only up to a certain level of excitement...then...they are useless. you don’t like the tonnage with the BOD... well, look at how supertankers dive..)) in terms of size and tonnage it will be very much the same.
          1. +1
            21 December 2023 14: 08
            look how supertankers dive..)) in size and tonnage it will be very much the same.

            You correctly noticed that tankers dive, since their rest mass is very large and, accordingly, vertical vibrations are minimal.
            And to make a tanker of the same volume but very light, it will “dance” on the slightest wave.
  15. +4
    19 December 2023 09: 01
    The people were beating their chests..., breaking their keyboards and psyches
    You need to beat your head when fantasies torment and build “castles in the air.” No one knows the performance characteristics of the "Daggers", but they are speculating about how to destroy naval targets with "castles in the air"
  16. +7
    19 December 2023 09: 03
    Author! It’s not at all clear why one would talk about shooting a dagger at an aircraft carrier, why not use a company of T-90 tanks, for example? Each weapon must be used for its own purposes... And if one “not very smart general” said that “this is luminium,” this is not proof! And to be specific, there are “other products” for aircraft carriers...
    1. +6
      19 December 2023 10: 56
      Quote: Sergey_K
      why not use a company of T-90 tanks, for example?

      (frozen in awe) Brilliant!
      An excellent plot - an aircraft carrier operates in the western part of the Mediterranean, and along the bottom, “silently clanging its tracks,” a T-90AM company quietly creeps up to it good hi
      1. +8
        19 December 2023 15: 29
        The best means of naval air defense are tanks on the enemy's take-off deck!
        1. +6
          19 December 2023 16: 18
          Quote: Negro
          The best means of naval air defense are tanks on the enemy's take-off deck!

          And what a sight: from the depths of the sea, raising white foamy fountains, armored colossuses soar upward, and, having described a proud parabola, land with a roar right on the deck of an aircraft carrier! And let's chew the food.... uh, I mean, crush the planes!
          1. +1
            21 December 2023 02: 47
            >And let's chew the food.... uh, I mean, crush the planes!
            No.. after all, let the tanks chew the stern of their aluminum, not for metabolism reasons. Airplanes are for infantry fighting vehicles dropped from the air (or, for a walk, from low-orbit satellites) directly onto the decks in the second echelon, to help the tanks.
            We need to call specialists from our TV channels here. A cool picture is drawn, but it goes to waste. And they will definitely suit them, especially since there is a crisis of the genre (at most humanoid military robots promised from above). And this is fresh and youthful. In addition, it will fit perfectly into the reality in which they live.
      2. +3
        20 December 2023 07: 45
        The commander sends the distraught acoustician to the medical unit with suspected drugs
      3. +1
        20 December 2023 23: 35
        And the company changes the terrain to confuse the log, or whatever they call the depth gauge laughing
        1. 0
          21 December 2023 08: 08
          Quote: stankow
          to confuse the log, or whatever they call the depth gauge

          Echo sounder :))) Speed ​​is measured with a log hi
          1. 0
            24 December 2023 01: 01
            I found the word - lot, of course.
      4. +1
        21 December 2023 13: 37
        well, why, along the bottom) the main thing is to catch it when it is standing somewhere in the port))) then a horse-drawn... uh... tank charge through the Alps... and direct fire) is possible with the T-90)
  17. -7
    19 December 2023 10: 07
    The Patriot shot down a couple of Daggers! So a destroyer with Aegis will shoot down this Dagger! The air defense of Arleigh Burke destroyers is precisely designed to intercept ballistic missiles!
    1. +15
      19 December 2023 10: 56
      Of course I did.
      There's even a photo!
      lol
      1. 0
        19 December 2023 17: 51
        Quote: kit88
        Of course I did.
        There's even a photo!

        Bravo! Laconically, but most importantly - clearly and convincingly. fellow
        In the very APPLE!!! good
    2. +2
      19 December 2023 22: 01
      Why did you get scared? Do we believe in American and Ukrainian fairy tales?
    3. +1
      20 December 2023 16: 56
      Yeah, with its guidance radar))) and so, in general - yes, everything is fine, beautiful marquise)))
    4. 0
      21 December 2023 13: 29
      that cast iron blank with which Vitalya Klyachka posed - not a warhead of a dagger) and everyone saw how the patriot “knocked down” daggers)) without knocking down anything
  18. +4
    19 December 2023 10: 53
    in place of the crews of the American (British, Italian and Turkish) ships did not strain very much

    Why should they bother? They understand that with the damage or destruction of one ship, the war will not end, but will begin. And starting a war with NATO with a strike on an aircraft carrier, of which the United States has dozens, is not the smartest thing to do.
  19. 0
    19 December 2023 11: 17
    Well, if it hits, one is enough. For incapacitating for sure, and very likely for bulls, bulls. Although, of course, she’s a healthy fool, and she’ll be doing bulbul for a long time. It depends on where it lands, where the charge detonates and whether it makes a big hole in the bottom.
    It’s ridiculous to talk about the security of reactors, cellars and kerosene reserves. No deck can withstand being hit by such a heavy blank at such speeds.
    In general, the fight against aircraft carriers using ballistic missiles is a very old topic and the same Chinese have been working on it for a long time and seriously.
    1. +2
      19 December 2023 17: 57
      Quote: Grossvater
      the fight against aircraft carriers using ballistic missiles is a very old topic and the same Chinese have been working on it for a long time and seriously.

      We were doing it back when the Chinese were hunting sparrows with slingshots!
      I was in the fleet with an R-27K, which even hit the target a couple of times... But then cheaper and more reliable means appeared than SLBMs with an unknown data aging time...
      So, who is a pioneer, and who just went for a walk - that still needs to be seen!
      AHA.
      1. 0
        20 December 2023 12: 37
        I was in the fleet with an R-27K, which even hit the target a couple of times.

        at a standing target with a guidance beacon.
  20. 0
    19 December 2023 11: 20
    Quote: SergeyB
    anti-aircraft missiles that fly at approximately the same speed

    The same one? Is it true?
    Hypersound officially starts at 6M. Please remind us which missile defense systems fly at Mach XNUMX or faster.
    1. +2
      19 December 2023 11: 48
      9M82 up to 2500m/s
      Line 48n 2000 - 2100
      Old 55s to 2000.
      Will you chew it yourself or help?
      1. 0
        19 December 2023 12: 08
        9М82 to 2500m / s

        That's exactly what the "before" is. This speed is at the very initial stage of the flight during acceleration; then the rocket flies by inertia and its speed when approaching the target is much lower.
        1. -1
          19 December 2023 12: 37
          The loss of speed at the interception distance is not critical and the missile reaches the target at hypersound or its border.
          1. 0
            19 December 2023 12: 49
            the limit of hypersound is 4,5-5M.
            And the speed drops much earlier, otherwise radio correction cannot be carried out.
            1. 0
              19 December 2023 13: 32
              Not by much, don’t write nonsense, first read what purposes some of these products are intended to intercept; speeds up to 9000 km/h over a distance of several tens of kilometers will not drop by half.
              1. 0
                19 December 2023 13: 41
                The speed falls according to a quadratic law - the higher it was initially, the faster it falls at the first stage.
                And these versions of missiles are designed to be used not for tens, but for hundreds of kilometers. Without radio course correction during the flight, it is impossible to reach such a distance.
                1. +1
                  19 December 2023 13: 43
                  clearly... “I’m an artist, that’s what I see”, closed.
  21. +2
    19 December 2023 11: 21
    What is the radius of the aircraft carrier’s “area of ​​responsibility”? 500 - 600 kilometers??? These are all sorts of Growlers, Prowlers and Escorts. 2-3 megaton charges at an altitude of 40 km will pave a “corridor” further, you can have an X 32 with a head capable of working in the current situation.
    And yes. A blow to Avik is the Third World War. This is not for the Iskander Shprotoedov and not for the Poles to demolish the radars.
    A ship is the territory of the state under whose flag it flies. A blow to Avik is a blow to the USA. If the most complete pacifist were in power, he would answer. Because if you don’t answer after this, they’ll kill you.
    So, gentlemen, theorists, once this kind of drinking has started, let’s have fun.
    1. 0
      19 December 2023 12: 53
      That someone is demolishing sprat eaters, or demolishing Polish radars.
      1. +3
        19 December 2023 14: 19
        Here we discussed above how long NATO will discuss whether to start a third world war.
        Ford is America. There will be no discussion.
  22. +4
    19 December 2023 11: 22
    Quote: Rand-76
    The Patriot shot down a couple of Daggers!

    Hmm? Well, that’s what your people say, but they say a lot of things, they say they dug up the Black Sea...
  23. +1
    19 December 2023 11: 28
    Quote from solar
    located under the armored deck

    How long is the flight deck? 2", maybe 3". And most of the lipistry in the form of radars still dangles from above. The central post, yes, deep below, so that no one would surface laughing.
    No horizontal protection will save you from even an ordinary heavy armor-piercing bomb falling well if at 1M, but here it’s at least six.
  24. 0
    19 December 2023 11: 28
    Quote from solar
    located under the armored deck

    How long is the flight deck? 2", maybe 3". And most of the lipistry in the form of radars still dangles from above. The central post, yes, deep below, so that no one would surface laughing.
    No horizontal protection will save you from even an ordinary heavy armor-piercing bomb falling well if at 1M, but here it’s at least six.
    1. +1
      19 December 2023 12: 05
      read more carefully. there someone wrote about some fragmentation submunitions.
    2. 0
      19 December 2023 12: 51
      Kamikaze pilot failed to sink aircraft carrier
  25. 0
    19 December 2023 12: 12
    Quote: paul3390
    Exactly!! And how did I forget that all the AFAR canvases are actually under the armored deck...

    laughing
    1. 0
      19 December 2023 12: 58
      The man did not know that the afar canvases were not covered with a thin film. There are heavy-duty plastics and ceramics, and the question is whether a ball designed for infantry will penetrate this outer layer and from what distance. Ceramic liners in body armor are common. He is also not aware that the AFAR panel consists of separate modules, and the antenna can work even if some of the modules fail.
  26. -2
    19 December 2023 12: 14
    Quote from solar
    fragmentation submunitions.

    Fragmentation submunitions will destroy all deck equipment, primarily catapults. I'm not talking about radars.
    1. +1
      19 December 2023 13: 01
      The catapults are located under the armored deck; fragmentation ammunition will not even scratch them.
      With radars, everything is also not so simple - I wrote above. Let alone whether these submunitions exist in nature, there is nothing about them on the Internet.
      1. +1
        20 December 2023 16: 59
        The last aircraft carriers that had an armored deck, and even then not all of it, but only about 30%, in the center are the British Illustrious from WWII. For all current ones, this is ordinary shipbuilding steel.
  27. 0
    19 December 2023 12: 49
    According to the tactics of the USSR Air Force, a regiment of strategists is needed to destroy an AUG. And here they want it with one dagger.
  28. -1
    19 December 2023 13: 27
    It looks like another exacerbation has begun...or another batch of dope has been brought in. Because I haven’t read such nonsense for a long time...
    The people were beating their chests, breaking their keyboards and psyches, juggling expert opinions (and the armchair experts there are definitely even worse than ours)

    The author apparently touched a nerve and he once again decided to prove that no one can surpass him - he is the most sofa-like and the most terrible)))
    I beg you, don’t - everyone already knows))) I’m already sick and tired of reading informational excrement.

    The knowledge seems to have ended with the name “Dagger” and a little about the ANN. What follows is complete nonsense, it’s hard to even call it a personal opinion. And the author is too lazy to look for open information. My wife calls me a lazy animal))) but here... my respect. I still have to work and work until I get to the author.

    The Dagger has accuracy. Certain. Of course, we won’t believe in the beautiful fairy tale that the Kinzhal’s CEP is 1 meter, but we will take the Iskander, which is no different, but has a CEP of 30-70 meters.

    Of course we won’t, we will believe the author’s nonsense))), and not the performance characteristics of the OGSN and the data published in the media related to the military-industrial complex.

    And we, excuse me, have hypersound at the final segment of the trajectory, that is, Mach 10 and even more are declared.

    Seriously?))) It seems to me or someone has lied in the end here)) or another confirmation of the scribbler’s absolute illiteracy, laziness and disregard for readers and what he dumps on them
    heads.

    The “Dagger” is aimed at coordinates that are either laid before the launch, or received from satellites, target designating aircraft,

    But what about ...
    What happens when a huge piece of metal rubs against the air at a tremendous speed of 5 m/s? That's right, dear ones. Air, which is a mixture of gases, begins to ionize! What is ionized gas? Just plasma. Which, as if by virtue of its properties, completely excludes the use of radar gadgets of any kind.

    Someone took Etodrugin-Forte))) or someone will receive a Nobel Prize in physics))) Author, tell me the secret of how this happens? Radar is not possible due to plasma, but data via the same RI from a satellite is possible?)))
    What is there? And there is an optical seeker. Which one is not specified anywhere for obvious reasons. But it’s already clear that it’s either television or thermal imaging.

    “This great mystery is” can be searched not only by everyone, but by a select few in Google and Yandex. And to get to the bottom of the truth....)))
    GSN 9E436 (picture below)
    Then it's just laziness))
    In general, look who is too lazy

    It’s about speed and where it flies to the GZ and where to the NW.
  29. +3
    19 December 2023 14: 18
    The Yemenis just hit a container ship with a ballistic missile, and what are we doing?)
  30. -1
    19 December 2023 14: 43
    If Russian missiles ever fly at American aircraft carriers, then they certainly will not be with 500 kg of TNT... For tactical nuclear weapons, it is not so important how many meters they miss the sailing aircraft carrier
  31. +1
    19 December 2023 15: 42
    The question is, is it possible to point such products at the final stage of the trajectory to the tail via satellite? A plasma cone forms in the front part. 10 M speed is ~ 10 km/sec, that is, it is about one and a half seconds of time to make adjustments if they are made. In principle, this is enough for a small correction, taking into account minor movements of the object (during the total flight time of 2-3 minutes) and good signal transmission power of target designation satellites.
    Since during such a period (dive) the target will not have an exact time to react, if the target designation satellite is able to determine “online” the speed and vector of the target’s movement and predict this a few seconds in advance and also transmit this data to the missile “in the tail”, for example before acceleration is turned on at the final stage of the trajectory and if the design of the product provides for maneuvering with gas-dynamic rudders or active surfaces at the final stage, then the problem as a whole is solvable.

    Another question is: does Kinzhal have these capabilities at the final stage? At such speeds, maneuvering is still a task; it can be more complicated than ensuring communications..

    Considering the speeds, friction, plasma and general operating conditions, I am skeptical that it would be possible to attach a homing head to the Kinzhal. However, within the framework of another product, it is possible to imagine how this problem could be solved - including the issues of target designation.
  32. 0
    19 December 2023 15: 51
    In the USSR there was a whole concept of attacking one aircraft carrier. If I remember correctly, almost 2 squadrons of Tupolev. Moreover, about a third of them are electronic warfare aircraft. And with 10-15 missile launches, they planned that 2-3 would reach the target.
    So stories about “one Dagger is enough” are just stories
    1. 0
      19 December 2023 16: 55
      I’m very interested, there’s no way to control the Dagger from the outside, the plasma gets in the way, but then how do they control the Zircon? It’s the same hypersound, the same plasma, and it works, as if my memory serves me correctly, specifically on ships. There are only two correct answer options: Or for us They are lying to everyone that Zircon works on moving targets, or control is possible, then the question is, is it possible to install something similar on the Dagger? However, maybe, and I hope so, that all this controversy is not worth a damn, TC following Zircon sea-based, ground-based and air-based anti-ship missiles are simply bound to appear, then why use the Dagger? Let it do its main job. IMHO.
      1. 0
        19 December 2023 18: 13
        Most likely, some time before the hit, the speed of the rocket becomes supersonic, about two em. Then you can turn on the seeker and hit moving targets, too.
  33. -3
    19 December 2023 17: 06
    Such things cannot be said or written. One can only think. Because the question “How many Tomahawks does Moscow need?” has long been resolved. Approximately 2000-3000 pieces. Not a single army in the world can hold back such an avalanche.
    1. DO
      0
      19 December 2023 19: 53
      ivan2022,
      How many Tomahawks does Moscow need?" - it was decided long ago. Approximately 2000-3000 pieces.

      If NATO ships receive an order to launch a missile attack on Moscow, it would be illogical for them to fire their entire stock of tomahawks at Moscow. They will most likely launch more than an order of magnitude fewer tomahawks to suppress and overload air defenses, and then several missiles with nuclear warheads.
      But you have to understand that after this, in addition to the Russian nuclear response by ship, it will also arrive symmetrically in Washington and New York. This will no longer be politics, but a simple military reflex.
      So both sides need to think very hard before striking.
  34. 0
    19 December 2023 17: 21
    Roman urgently needs to rewrite the article, because short-range air defense systems (Buki, Pantsir, Tory) are extremely vulnerable to kamikaze drones! Two FPV copters are enough to destroy the radar of an anti-aircraft missile system, after which it will turn into a pile of useless scrap metal! SVO will not let you lie!
  35. 0
    19 December 2023 18: 02
    So many unnecessary letters, as usual, this “genius” uses. So much to write and nothing to write.
  36. 0
    19 December 2023 19: 10
    Well, not an aircraft carrier, but a glider with airplanes. The scribe doesn’t stand still, but is the Dagger an anti-ship missile? Some questions
  37. +3
    19 December 2023 20: 02
    Quote from solar
    The catapults are located under the armored deck,

    Oh my God! Is it really difficult to pick up anything to read? The flight deck is armored ONLY above the hangar. Neither elevators nor "cats" are reserved!
    1. 0
      20 December 2023 12: 45
      balls against infantry will not penetrate a deck designed for 30-ton aircraft, in any case. And they won’t cause any harm to a catapult designed for pressures capable of accelerating a 30-ton aircraft in a few seconds.
  38. +1
    19 December 2023 20: 05
    Quote from solar
    The man did not know that the afar canvases were not covered with a thin film.

    Excuse me, have you heard anything about stability and metacentric height? Radar antennas are generally located high.
    1. 0
      20 December 2023 12: 46
      There the superstructure is generally located high. And it's not made of foil. And a certain amount of ceramics for a 100000 ton ship will not change anything.
  39. -1
    19 December 2023 20: 18
    Quote: Amateur
    At first I decided that this was another “opus” of Mitrofanov. Not his, but his level.
    If suddenly the Russian Federation decides to start WWXNUMX with an attack on an American aircraft carrier, then no one will “shoot” missiles with conventional warheads at it. And there will be an attack with several missiles with thermonuclear warheads, first on the escort ships, and then on the aircraft carrier.
    * If the US starts the war, then the US itself and some of its satellites will be destroyed by a retaliatory strike, but who knows whether there will be enough missiles for an aircraft carrier.

    Enough for aircraft carrier troughs, everyone knows that. In addition to the warriors from Ii, Kogecheyuno. The gray has dried up there.
  40. fiv
    +2
    19 December 2023 21: 03
    When they want to achieve the defeat of a very important target, the impact on it will be complex - from different sides, from different environments, with different impacts. And, as they have already said several times here at VO, if it comes to attacks on aircraft carriers, then no one will be shy about special warheads.
  41. 0
    19 December 2023 21: 03
    In general, how much is needed/not needed is not absolutely clear from the article
    The main problem is clear - getting there.
    the rest is from empty to empty.

    However, it was mentioned here in VO that, according to calculations, our Kuznetsov is completely disabled by 20 subsonic anti-ship missiles.
    We divide by 2 (supersonic), by 2 more (hypersonic), by 2 more (ballistic), multiply by 2 more (Ford will be newer), multiply by 2 more - it doesn’t fly without a squadron.
    It turns out that there are approximately 10 Daggers.
    Specifically approximately)))
    you can argue...
    1. 0
      19 December 2023 21: 18
      A separate question is what will be the hydraulic shock on the ship’s hull if something hits the input next to it at a speed of 4-5 km/sec
      1. 0
        20 December 2023 09: 56
        1) How close is it?
        2) Warships are intentionally stronger
        3) and in addition they are designed for storms, accidents and extreme driving, ha ha...
      2. 0
        20 December 2023 12: 49
        in the photo in the splash screen, to which someone stuck a MiG, it’s the water hammer test that all US ships undergo.
  42. 0
    19 December 2023 21: 32
    The Dagger has accuracy. Certain. Of course, we won’t believe in the beautiful fairy tale that the Kinzhal’s CEP is 1 meter, but we will take the Iskander, which is no different, but has a CEP of 30-70 meters.
    You don’t have to read any further, Skomorokhov, you know Iskander’s QUO, it’s 30-70 meters, seriously? You can simply not read further - the nonsense of a madman.
  43. 0
    19 December 2023 21: 50
    The scenario in which the Dagger can be used is not clear. Is this before World War 3 or is it already in progress? From here will there be Glonas/Gps?
  44. +1
    19 December 2023 23: 34
    Last year, two MiG-31Ks, which are carriers of the Daggers, were relocated to the Khmeimim airbase.
  45. 0
    19 December 2023 23: 37
    The author also turned out to be an armchair expert. What guidance system is used for the Dagger at the terminal stage of the trajectory is a state secret. And the listing of known seekers is only his assumption that they are used in the Dagger. I can do that too. For example, the Dagger receives target designation from an external source, possibly from (or through) a satellite. Putin said when they showed the “cartoons” that our defense workers have learned to transmit a radio signal through a cloud of plasma.
  46. 0
    20 December 2023 03: 42
    Theoretically, it’s “beautiful” and everything is bad, but the author seems to have made calculations based on a motor boat. 4 minutes and considering the displacement and inertia of this vessel, we can say it’s “worth it.” Yes, and the data is entered, I think with all the amendments. We need to check it in reality, explaining this by saying that the “dagger” itself “fell off” the MIG in the heat of hostility towards the AUG.
  47. -1
    20 December 2023 04: 15
    Hmmm. Administration, why do you keep drug addict authors on your staff?
  48. 0
    20 December 2023 06: 16
    In Bogdan Arut's book "Kamikaze kept a diary" there is an interesting idea about why the Americans dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima. The fact is that at the end of the war the Japanese planned a kamikaze attack on aircraft carriers and landing ships using all their aircraft, including obsolete and civilian aircraft. A massive strike by a huge number of aircraft would certainly stop the aircraft carriers. In our case, after the aircraft carrier is immobilized by conventional means, it can be effectively hit with a hypersonic missile.
    1. +1
      20 December 2023 14: 57
      Quote from pavel.tipingmail.com
      Why did the Americans drop an atomic bomb on Hiroshima? The fact is that at the end of the war the Japanese planned a kamikaze strike on aircraft carriers and landing ships using all their aircraft

      And all this aviation was assembled in Hiroshima?
  49. 0
    20 December 2023 06: 27
    Guaranteed defeat - two Onixes. And what?!
  50. The comment was deleted.
  51. GGV
    +2
    20 December 2023 10: 12
    I graduated from school more than 30 years ago, and maybe I’m wrong? What kind of “three-coordinate spaces” does the author write about, the aircraft carriers of 3.14ndos can already dive or fly under water?
  52. +1
    20 December 2023 10: 49
    As a matter of fantastic nonsense: why does the author define the protective head cone of a rocket as necessarily metallic (giving ionization)? I remember at Buran, most of the surface was ceramic, and the deorbit speed was higher than 10 M. In addition, the head cone at the final stage of the flight can be cooled. On top of everything else, the MIG-31 (once) was not intended to carry such “Loaves” on an external sling, but now it does.
    And lastly, Gerald who is Ford, this is a treasure trove of radio devices, starting with locators, radio stations, powerful control devices (with decent radio bursts) can try to listen (passively) to the radio broadcast?
    Otherwise, all this is my imagination.
    Let me add a classic of war: - “if you have the opportunity, pretend you don’t have it”!
  53. 0
    20 December 2023 11: 24
    Why not launch from a distance closer than 1000 km? Then the approach time, and therefore the target displacement, will decrease. Besides, who is preventing the group launch of missiles with advance notice, taking into account possible target maneuvers? The aircraft carrier is too big to suddenly change the direction of its movement like a hare... And, most importantly, no one here knows until when and how the missile can be adjusted. Just assumptions.
    1. +2
      20 December 2023 12: 51
      An aircraft carrier is too big to suddenly change the direction of its movement like a hare...

      There's a video up there in the thread. Yes, an aircraft carrier is capable of abruptly changing direction, and at high speed.
      1. 0
        20 December 2023 23: 54
        He has enough power. But with such a roll, how much will the aircraft and aircraft lose?
  54. +1
    20 December 2023 14: 49
    In the sea, of course, raise the anchor and give minimal speed, moving the ship literally 100-150 meters away - and you will be relieved to see a “gurgle” with a lot of spray.

    I don’t want to upset the author, but the speed of raising the anchor on an aircraft carrier is very low. Something around 5 m/min. That is, even from a shallow depth of 300 meters, just raising the anchor will take a WHOLE HOUR! And this is provided that the launch of the Dagger was detected at the moment of its separation from the axle, and at that very second its route was calculated, a decision was made, an order was given, the emergency team ran to the anchor raising mechanism and turned it on. And all this in ONE second.
    But this condition is impossible. It takes, although small, but important minutes. Plus the fact that just to start moving such an inert mechanism as an aircraft carrier will take more than one minute. In the sum of all actions, the aircraft carrier can go to the 150m stated by the author, well if within 65-70 minutes after the launch of the Dagger.

    And if the ship is already with the anchor raised, then it means it is moving. Well then, we must count on the fact that, naturally, idiots are sitting at the launch, who do not see the direction of the ship’s movement and will not introduce lead into the flight mission... (and instantly slow down the aircraft carrier and in seconds shift it to another course, and even go relatively far along this course - this is only possible in the film The Expendables 4, but not in life).
    1. 0
      21 December 2023 22: 26
      I don't want to upset the author

      I don’t want to upset you, but, if necessary, you can get rid of the anchor very quickly; you don’t have to lift it, but drop it. hi
  55. 0
    20 December 2023 15: 28
    Quote: KCA
    There were scientific articles, we, and, surprisingly, the Chinese, that there is no plasma behind a projectile flying in the plasma region, and radio communication is possible

    This means: there is a conductive layer of finite size on the surface and it is possible to work with it as with an AC.
  56. 0
    20 December 2023 16: 44
    Probably the designers of the Dagger are fools, but Skomorokhov is smart. That’s why no one here will tell him how the dagger is aimed at the target. ;) One dagger is enough to disable the catapult forever and kinetic energy to pierce through a barge full of flammable and explosive materials. That's all you need to know. E=ms2
    1. +1
      20 December 2023 23: 57
      Yes, you need to know, but you don’t know:

      E=mv2/2
      1. 0
        21 December 2023 16: 50
        Now google the image "formula on the deck of uss enterprise." I meant that you just need to get on the deck of an aircraft carrier.
        PS: but if you are talking about kinetic, yes, obviously. There's a lot of it there.
    2. +1
      21 December 2023 09: 25
      Quote: Last centurion
      That's all you need to know. E=ms2

      We made a mistake in the physics section, but that’s okay, a great opus!))) laughing
    3. +1
      23 December 2023 00: 18
      E=ms2 is for a nuclear warhead..
  57. bar
    0
    20 December 2023 17: 46
    Why sink an aircraft carrier? One dagger is enough. With a hole in the flight deck, it will become just a trough.
    1. 0
      21 December 2023 14: 00
      Quote: bar
      Why sink an aircraft carrier? One dagger is enough. With a hole in the flight deck, it will become just a trough.

      So that it would not be repaired later.
  58. 0
    20 December 2023 19: 01
    Quote: TermNachTER
    British "Illustries"

    Midway and its comrades and all subsequent American aircraft carriers had armored decks. I won’t talk about the British post-war, I’m too lazy to go to the bookshelf.
  59. +1
    20 December 2023 19: 45
    Where did you get the figure of 30-70 meters from? Iskander hits the target.
    1. 0
      21 December 2023 14: 01
      Quote: Victor Sergeev
      Where did you get the figure of 30-70 meters from? Iskander hits the target.

      They confused it with Point U.
  60. +3
    20 December 2023 23: 03
    How many Daggers does Gerald Ford need?
    .
    If with a nuclear warhead, then one. But it is better to use a medium-range ballistic missile. The problem with maneuvering the AUG is easily solved. At one time, when the press predicted that it would be impossible for the Chinese to hit the AUG with a ballistic missile, I saw the solution in about five minutes. . I think real experts will come up with something better.
    ю
    I am alarmed by the emphasis on non-nuclear warheads in the article. Cowardice is also ingratiation. Whether we use nuclear weapons or conventional ones, the political consequences will be the same. Self-restraint on our part here is utter stupidity and only provokes the United States into aggressive actions.
  61. 0
    21 December 2023 09: 22
    It's funny to read the opinion of an armchair expert about the opinions of the same armchair experts. But the main thing is to make the cabbage soup yourself more seriously, and try to pass as
    part of intelligent organisms
    .
    I haven’t seen data anywhere about the type of seeker of Daggers. Or does the author have access to Soviet documents and share his knowledge here?
  62. 0
    21 December 2023 12: 50
    You don’t need a lot of intelligence to talk about how many daggers you need. But in order to give the order to strike at least one... first you need to have only two eggs
  63. 0
    21 December 2023 13: 23
    The question is not posed correctly. If the person carrying this missile is at a distance acceptable to Ford, even one missile will be enough. Explanation by J. Ford aircraft carrier. That is, roughly speaking, a floating airfield. Regarding the air defense assigned to it, I’ll say this. It takes a couple of minutes to react and launch the same gyroscopes. But a dagger won't do that. What we need here is an interceptor missile. But the United States doesn’t even have one in its design. When it hits below the wall, a hole is formed, just like from a regular rocket, but you guys don’t take into account kinetic energy. Imagine a sheet of steel and hitting it with a hammer. There is an anthill at the back of this leaf. So, purely due to kinetics, he will tear out all the equipment. Moreover, the US Navy does not really train in combating counter-sinking of a ship. An aircraft carrier will probably cover you. But let's return to the aircraft carrier. When hit, a hole is created and water gushes out. The ship is sinking. He is the Leader. That is, the entire fleet will stupidly protect him. She will be buried there too
    1. 0
      26 December 2023 09: 34
      . The US Navy does not really train in combating counter-sinking of a ship.



      Where did you get this from? Where can I read an overview of what they train or don't train with?
  64. +2
    21 December 2023 16: 05
    By the number of “blunders” in an article, starting from its very beginning, the author is unmistakably determined.
    Not even funny already.
    1. 0
      26 December 2023 09: 36
      Well, how about describing exactly what the mistakes are, what’s stopping you?
  65. +1
    21 December 2023 21: 51
    If it comes to launches against aircraft carriers, then the warhead of the missile will be slightly different, but it doesn’t care whether the ship is here or a little to the side!
  66. bar
    0
    22 December 2023 07: 51
    Quote: Zoer
    Quote: bar
    Why sink an aircraft carrier? One dagger is enough. With a hole in the flight deck, it will become just a trough.

    So that it would not be repaired later.

    It may not happen in World War III.
  67. 0
    22 December 2023 10: 39
    Quote: stankow
    A dozen 454 kg bombs exploded. Like 10 gauge. But he didn't drown. Here is the answer to how many daggers you need!

    The Essexes have an armored hangar deck, the bombs exploded ABOVE it. By the way, it was the excessive sealing of the hangar deck that caused very large losses. People simply suffocated. The dagger will pass through any deck and bang in the depths.
  68. 0
    22 December 2023 10: 43
    Quote: JD1979
    9M82 up to 2500m/s
    Line 48n 2000 - 2100
    Old 55s to 2000.
    Will you chew it yourself or help?

    Chewed (read winked). Sorry, I was wrong.
    Thank you!
  69. 0
    22 December 2023 15: 24
    Well, not with daggers alone. There is an anti-ship classic - Onyxes. So the aviation mothers always have a reason to tense up.
  70. 0
    22 December 2023 17: 16
    It seems like one of our people claimed that they had solved the problem with transmitting a radio signal in plasma? And it seems that the use of hypersonic weapons, if not a dagger, then at least zircon, should be based on this technology.
    Or were we fantasizing again out of old habit?
  71. 0
    22 December 2023 21: 53
    Who wrote this crap? Ahh, everything is clear - Skomorokhov. Dear fellow expert Skomorokhov, they work with 12-gauge optics at range, but there’s a couple of minutes and half a meter to the milk, didn’t you know?
  72. 0
    23 December 2023 00: 12
    The dagger is a secret product and no one knows how it is controlled and whether it can hit a moving target...
    Only the manufacturers know what's under the fairing.
    It will definitely reach the aircraft carrier's reactor at such a speed; again, only the developers know whether there is a slowdown in the explosion. But even with a blank it is possible to hit a reactor.
  73. 0
    23 December 2023 12: 05
    I discovered the article late, but couldn’t resist commenting. Maybe someone else will read the opinion of one famous beauty blogger from a channel about watches
  74. 0
    23 December 2023 18: 16
    In fact, no one knows how fast the dagger flies at the final part of its trajectory, and whether it can correct its course. Variations are possible.
  75. 0
    26 December 2023 17: 56
    The author is competent and well-reasoned. BUT!
    1st. The option with a nuclear warhead has not been considered. To defeat AUG, you can not spare the thermonuclear ammunition.
    2nd The so-called complex strike. First, anti-ship missiles, then electromagnetic ammunition, and only then, after immobilization, you can use the Dagger.
    Well, what arguments will be against it?
    And how calm will the AUG crews be in this case?
  76. 0
    26 December 2023 21: 36
    Quote: glestwid
    Well, how about describing exactly what the mistakes are, what’s stopping you?

    First of all, their quantity. It doesn’t even interfere, but makes the process of pointing out errors pointless. Analyzing such a number of mistakes will exceed the volume of the article itself.
    Let’s look at one of the first pearls of the local “expert”:
    These completely simple instruments allow you to determine the main thing: heading, pitch, roll. And nothing more is needed. If you need the so-called angular deviation of coordinates, that is, altitude, longitude and latitude, the onboard computer will calculate them without any problems.

    allow you to determine the main thing: heading, pitch, roll. And nothing more is needed.
    Isn't this a demonstration of ignorance of the subject?!
    If you need the so-called angular deviation of coordinates, that is, height, longitude and latitude
    What is the "angular deviation of coordinates"?!!! What kind of nonsense and new terminology is this?!!! And “that is, height, longitude and latitude” do not fit into any gates in the context of this phrase, since they are not “angular deviations”, but actual coordinates.
    The author is very illiterate, unfortunately, because he sows this illiteracy among readers, hiding behind the halo of an “expert” on the site.
  77. 0
    29 February 2024 14: 17
    An attack aircraft carrier is a variety of radars for various purposes.
    The KR X-22P for the Tu-22K was made with a passive radar seeker. A flight speed of over 3000-3500 km/h made it possible to overcome any air defense systems of that time, and thanks to autonomous guidance systems and a flight range of about 300 kilometers, the risk for the carrier aircraft was reduced.
    There is a film "The Price of Fear" 2002. with Ben Affleck and Morgan Freeman.
    There is an episode where a Tu-22 with an X-22 attacks an aircraft carrier. The team detects the missiles launched late and shoots down some of them with Falcons. The ship burns and breaks down according to the film.
    But really:
    The weight of the Kh-22 warhead is 930 kg; for example, the Exocet AM-39 is an air-to-ship missile that weighs only 165 kg.
  78. 0
    20 March 2024 05: 12
    Name at least one warship sunk by the Houthis. No hypersound. Just a rocket. Any. Then we’ll think about aircraft carriers.
  79. 0
    April 14 2024 23: 43
    The author explains in simple language the basics of targeting anti-ship missiles, at the “guys about animals” level, but quite understandably, at a basic level. For a complete understanding, it would be nice to compare how guidance works for Granit, Basalt, Mosquito, X-22 and mention Liana. The article is interesting for those who have never been an expert in the topic, not even a techie, but are interested and never skipped physics at school.