Western “wunderwaffes” that did not live up to the hopes of the Ukrainian armed forces

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Western “wunderwaffes” that did not live up to the hopes of the Ukrainian armed forces

Any war involves not only military operations, but also huge amounts of money spent by the warring parties on the purchase of weapons and military equipment (W&M).

Of course, arms and military equipment manufacturers are interested in selling as many of their products as possible, not only on the domestic market, but also to customers from other countries - as was cynically noted in the movie “Gunsmith Baron,” the most effective solution is to supply weapons to both warring parties.



All sales are advertising, and the best advertising for weapons comes from the battlefield. In our information age, even people who are in no way involved in the weapons issue often learn about the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of a particular type of weapons and military equipment revealed during combat operations. Since decisions to purchase certain types of weapons and military equipment are often made by politicians or military personnel of those armies that have never participated in real wars, public advertising can be an excellent motivator for them to buy.

I immediately remember the armed conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh that occurred in 2020, which became an advertising platform for Turkish weapons, in particular the Bayraktar UAV. Moreover, in such conflicts, weapons often gain undeserved fame when they are used against an obviously weaker enemy. However, as soon as a real war begins, it immediately puts everything in its place - illusions dissipate as quickly as previously advertised planes fall to the ground and burn Tanks.

The most serious and large-scale armed conflict of our time was the Russian Special Military Operation (SVO) in Ukraine, and many of those weapons that at the beginning of the conflict were positioned almost as a “wunderwaffe” capable of changing the course of hostilities have now gone into the shadows, according to at least in information terms, and some actually practically disappeared from the battlefields.

Let us recall some of the weapons and military equipment, whose appearance on the battlefield was associated with the imminent victory of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU), but which did not live up to the hopes placed on them.

MANPADS Stinger


Stinger man-portable anti-aircraft missile systems (MANPADS) drank a lot of blood from the CCCP Armed Forces during the period of Soviet troops in Afghanistan. At the very beginning of the Northern Military District, Western countries supplied thousands of American Stinger MANPADS to Ukraine. Of course, in addition to them, British, French and even Polish MANPADS were also supplied, but it was the Stinger P3RK that became a household name.


P3RK Stinger in Ukraine

It cannot be denied that the Stinger P3RK inflicted quite significant damage on the Russian Armed Forces, but the greatest losses were the Russian aviation suffered from MANPADS precisely at the beginning of the Northern Military District, while the illusions were still fresh that the Ukrainian Armed Forces were about to break down and stop resisting, when the ground forces of the Russian Armed Forces and the combat aircraft and helicopters supporting them were quickly moving deeper into the territory of Ukraine.

However, later, based on open information, the losses of the Russian Air Force from MANPADS fire decreased significantly. Apparently, such cases have now become isolated. This was facilitated by an increase in the ratio of ammunition used in favor of high-precision weapons, at a range excluding the use of MANPADS by the enemy, including high-explosive aerial bombs (FAB) with unified planning and correction modules (UMPC).

In cases where unguided ammunition is still used, the priority is to save military equipment and people, for example, for this purpose, although less effective, but also safer for combat helicopters and attack aircraft, firing unguided aircraft missiles (UAR) from a pitched position is used, although ideally I would like to abandon this practice in favor of widespread use of only high-precision weapons by modern combat aircraft and helicopters.

Particularly impressive were the reports about the onboard self-defense complex of the Ka-52 combat helicopter repelling an attack by almost two dozen MANPADS - one must think that at that moment some in the West became very depressed.


The Ka-52 combat helicopter is equipped with a highly effective on-board self-defense system, which, if it did not make MANPADS completely useless, then significantly reduced their effectiveness

It is also worth mentioning the numerous Russian unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) - kamikazes of the Geran-2 type, whose piston engines, apparently, are poorly detected and captured by homing heads (GOS) of MANPADS, especially if UAV "Geran-2" goes at high altitude.

In general, the massive deliveries of the Stinger P3RK did not live up to the hopes placed on them and did not protect the Ukrainian Armed Forces from Russian aviation; the skies over Ukraine are now mostly covered by other anti-aircraft missile and anti-aircraft artillery systems.

PTPK Javelin


Another widely advertised weapon was the Javelin anti-tank missile system (ATGM).

It was with the help of the Javelin anti-tank missile system, also supplied to Ukraine in huge quantities, that the Ukrainian Armed Forces hoped to resist the armored fists of the Russian Armed Forces. But the Armed Forces of Ukraine were proud that the Russian Armed Forces did not have a similar third-generation ATGM equipped with an infrared (IR) seeker, allowing the use of the Javelin ATGM according to the “fire and forget” principle.


Javelin ATGM

Again, at the beginning of the NVO, Javelin ATGMs, judging by open data, caused significant damage to the Russian Armed Forces, but gradually their use on the battlefield became practically unheard of. Either the Ukrainian Armed Forces have run out of expensive Javelin ATGMs, and the greedy Americans don’t want to supply more, or the Russian Armed Forces have learned to resist them.

One way or another, the main weapon for combating enemy armored vehicles on the Ukrainian side, apparently, has become FRU-drones, as well as the Ukrainian-made Stugna-P ATGM, or the slightly outdated, but still effective American Tow ATGM.

Now, when choosing a modern anti-tank weapon, potential buyers are more likely to prefer a Russian one UAV-kamikaze type "Lancet", instead of the Javelin anti-tank missile system that has “lost its charisma.”

Bayraktar UAV


The Bayraktar UAV, which gained popularity during the above-mentioned Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict, quickly descended from heaven to earth in the Northeast Military District zone - including in the literal sense. It turned out that for Russian air defense systems, the Turkish “bird” is far from the most difficult target.

If at the beginning of the SVO information also sometimes appeared that some Russian model of weapons and military equipment was destroyed using the Bauraktar UAV, now such information will have to be searched for a very long time. Moreover, according to open information, Turkey has completely refused to supply Bayraktar UAVs to Ukraine - yet the Ukrainian Armed Forces presented the Bayraktar UAV almost as a replacement for manned tactical aircraft.


Do the Ukrainian Armed Forces still have the Bauraktar UAVs?

Of course, it is quite possible that the Turks stopped supplies as a result of some secret agreements between our countries - this option cannot be completely ruled out, however, “Sultan” Erdogan is not the most negotiable partner, there is a much greater chance that the Turks were simply afraid of even more people destroyed over the territory Ukraine UAV Bauraktar with subsequent associated reputational losses and loss of potential sales markets for its unmanned industry.

M777


The transportable American howitzer M777 or “three axes”, as it is also called, was sung in its praises long before the start of the Northern Military District - they say how titanium, light, mobile it is, but the “real” war quickly put everything in its place.

A transportable howitzer is a transportable one, no matter how light it may be. Probably, in certain tactical situations, as part of combat operations against irregular formations, the M777 howitzer can turn out to be quite effective, being thrown by a helicopter to some dominant height. However, on a battlefield oversaturated with counter-battery weapons, the life of transportable artillery is often short-lived, which is confirmed by numerous photographs and videos of M777 howitzers destroyed in the Northern Military District zone.


Destroyed M777 howitzer

OBT Leopard 2


The German main battle tank (MBT) Leopard 2 has always been considered one of the most effective combat vehicles in its class. Some even claimed that the Leopard 2 MBT is the most protected and balanced tank in the world. It is characteristic that in many MBT ratings compiled by Western publications, Russian MBTs were not included at all - at best, they got a place somewhere at the end, and only the low silhouette was mentioned among the advantages.

Particularly pleasing to foreigners and liberal-minded fellow citizens, who were accustomed to criticizing everything domestic, were the cases of Russian tank turrets flying off during the war in Chechnya - some actually squealed with delight.

Even before the start of the SVO in Syria and Yemen, Western countries had the opportunity to realize that their armored vehicles burn no worse than Russian tanks, or even better, and sometimes even from very ancient weapons such as the RPG-7 hand-held anti-tank grenade launcher, and they are also excellent gets stuck in the mud and capsizes.

Realizing the situation on the battlefield and the scale of losses of their armored vehicles, Ukrainians immediately began to modify the German Leopard MBT with the help of the Soviet mounted dynamic protection (DZ) "Kontakt-1". However, this did not help them much. Once Leopard 2 MBTs reached the front line, they most often remained there, becoming a coveted trophy for “big cat” hunters..


Damaged Leopard 2 MBT and other Western armored vehicles

Conclusions


The article lists only a portion of those weapons that were supplied to Ukraine by Western countries, and whose reputation was seriously tarnished during the Northern Military District. The longer the war goes on, the more enemy weapons and military equipment will be able to disappoint their creators, manufacturers and potential consumers, not to mention the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Apparently, the F-16 fighters are the closest in line for public humiliation among the major ones. Let’s hope that the Russian Armed Forces will not disappoint the Armed Forces of Ukraine and American taxpayers by ensuring the disposal of these aircraft and other military equipment supplied to Ukraine as soon as possible.
155 comments
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  1. -5
    17 December 2023 04: 44
    The longer the war goes on, the more enemy weapons and military equipment will be able to disappoint their creators
    Abrams and F-16s are next! So it will be!
    1. -2
      17 December 2023 06: 01
      Abrams is a “coward” tank, he came but is afraid to fight. He guesses how it all might end for him.
      1. -8
        17 December 2023 16: 08
        Yes, both of them don’t want to fight.
        Leopold: let's live together!
        Abram: What? Fight? Oh, I beg you! I still have a hernia!
    2. -11
      17 December 2023 16: 08
      Maybe someone will decide without waiting in line, there was a mistake, ok bulbul?
      And the backup valve won't help. US senators will stop flying to “allied” countries to collect tribute
  2. +7
    17 December 2023 04: 57
    Let's hope that this notorious NWO will not last long and will not become the Hundred Years' War between Russia and the West...
    1. +5
      17 December 2023 05: 25
      Quote: ROSS 42
      will not become the Hundred Years' War between Russia and the West.

      There has never been a time in the entire history of Russia when the West did not fight with us, secretly or openly. Moreover, a military conflict was always preceded by the conclusion of a military alliance by the West. Why should NATO be an exception?
      1. +1
        17 December 2023 07: 11
        Quote: Vita VKO
        There has never been a time in the entire history of Russia when the West did not fight with us, secretly or openly.

        It remains to find out what you mean by the word “West”? Maybe this is some kind of Anglo-Saxon coalition, the top of which periodically gathers admirers of the Antichrist under its filthy banners?
        Therefore, I am curious what measures the Russian leadership can take - not take - to break this vicious circle. There was a time when the peoples of Europe greeted us like this:
        1. -6
          17 December 2023 08: 44
          Quote: ROSS 42
          So I'm curious what measures can be taken

          Measures to cure greed and get started. Well, it’s stupid that we have something that can’t be treated with them.
        2. IVZ
          +2
          17 December 2023 10: 24
          There was a time when the peoples of Europe greeted us like this:
          So are the peoples. And the ruling elites, as a rule, are “infinitely far from the people.” And by concentrating media resources in their hands, these very elites are adjusting the worldview of their “peoples” before the next global cataclysm.
          1. -6
            17 December 2023 13: 53
            You are mistaken, the ruling elites are elected by the people, so there is no need to downplay the guilt of the peoples....
            1. -3
              17 December 2023 16: 53
              In 1999, the people elected Putin, right? It’s good that someone smart and responsible came out. And the subsequent elections are ordinary political engineering. What if you are unlucky with your manager? Will the embassy promote it in general?
              1. 0
                24 December 2023 23: 44
                this was not the case in 1999
            2. 0
              18 December 2023 21: 45
              Does this work in the context of the collapse of the USSR and the election of Yeltsin for a 2nd term?
              Or are the “stupefied people” less to blame for the bad ruling elites than the “ordinary people”?
        3. +3
          17 December 2023 13: 13
          It didn't last long. After 10 years they began to hate me fiercely. And those whom our soldiers did not reach, never stopped hating.
        4. +2
          17 December 2023 14: 52
          Well, if the Nazis had not committed such atrocities, then these too would have greeted us in the same way as any Europeans greeted the Russians - the Germans in 1760, the French in 1814, the Germans in 1945: with fear and hatred of the “Asian subhuman barbarians.”
        5. -1
          17 December 2023 16: 41
          The photo shows a group of citizens and spacecraft soldiers. Bulgaria, Sofia, 11.09.1944/40/XNUMX, square near the old Russian embassy. In the hands of Shpagin and two MP-XNUMX, captured, ver. security company. Win, come, you will be greeted even warmer!
          1. -2
            17 December 2023 20: 21
            Haven’t you been caught yet to be sent to the Avdeevka meat processing plant? Our standards will be met everywhere soon, but you won’t be.
    2. +1
      17 December 2023 14: 11
      Yes, I would like to hope so
    3. -2
      17 December 2023 18: 22
      Quote: ROSS 42
      The NWO will not last long and will not become the Hundred Years War between Russia and the West...

      Well, you, my friend, are a pessimist! After all, there was the Thirty Years' War...just that!
  3. +4
    17 December 2023 05: 45
    The author touched upon a hot topic, the topic of confrontation between offensive weapons and defensive weapons. Such a confrontation will always be eternal, as will the lessons of victories and defeats learned by both sides
    1. -11
      17 December 2023 07: 40
      Conclusion: not good food for the horse.
      And the students are so-so... stop
  4. +17
    17 December 2023 05: 53
    Common words. There is no specific data on aircraft shot down using American MANPADS. And there are no figures for destroyed tanks.
    1. +24
      17 December 2023 06: 05
      The usual "Mitrofanovschina". Listed, and even then not completely, are well-known facts. There is nothing new compared to what has already been published on VO. If there were “-” for articles, then there would be no comments. There is nothing to comment on, however.
      1. +15
        17 December 2023 07: 29
        Quote: Amateur
        The usual "Mitrofanovschina". Listed, and even then not completely, are well-known facts. There is nothing new compared to what has already been published on VO. If there were “-” for articles, then there would be no comments. There is nothing to comment on, however.

        It’s just a pity that the pages of VO are increasingly filled with such slag. sad
      2. AUL
        +6
        17 December 2023 09: 44
        Quote: Amateur
        The usual "Mitrofanovschina".

        When I started reading, I was sure that the author was different. I was wrong, however!
        1. +8
          17 December 2023 10: 32
          Quote from AUL
          Quote: Amateur
          The usual "Mitrofanovschina".

          When I started reading, I was sure that the author was different. I was wrong, however!

          Only Mitrofanov’s articles are filled with references to himself. But if you’re talking about “late, little, useless,” then this is the favorite hobby of another author, who manages to write a surprisingly boring article about what can be told in one sentence.
          1. AUL
            +9
            17 December 2023 10: 56
            So I immediately thought about “another author”. The style and ideology of the article are the same!
  5. -5
    17 December 2023 06: 20
    Yes, we burned a lot of all sorts of equipment for them, but we also got hit. I am glad that our weapons are really better suited for combat than Western ones. Thanks to our gunsmiths)
    1. +9
      17 December 2023 07: 35
      Quote: NightWolf1991
      I am glad that our weapons are really better suited for combat than Western ones. Thanks to our gunsmiths

      Apparently, this will be news to some, but the Northern Military District has become a cemetery for weapons of Soviet, and not Western, types. There is so much of it piled up there that no one even seriously tried to count it.
      1. -1
        17 December 2023 10: 27
        Quote: Negro
        namely Soviet, not Western types. There is so much of it piled up there that no one even seriously tried to count it.

        This is not surprising - relatively speaking, the burned 30 T72 out of a thousand available is a lot on the ground, just mountains of iron, and out of the total number - quite a bit, and vice versa, the burned 30 Leo out of the delivered 30 is a collapse.
        If the West had supplied at least 1000 MBTs, then the losses would not have been condemned so nervously in Ukraine and the West
        1. +5
          17 December 2023 10: 56
          Quote: your1970
          This is not surprising - relatively speaking, 30 T72 out of a thousand available were burned

          Uh-uh. You greatly underestimate the scale of the SVO.
          1. -3
            17 December 2023 13: 51
            Quote: Negro
            Quote: your1970
            This is not surprising - relatively speaking, 30 T72 out of a thousand available were burned

            Uh-uh. You greatly underestimate the scale of the SVO.

            Did Ukraine burn ALL of their SOVIET tanks?
            Obviously not.
            That is why I write that comparing the losses of Soviet tanks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the losses of Western tanks is incorrect due to the large difference in their numbers.
            Our commander of the 3rd artillery division always reported at the parade review that 50% of the division’s personnel were on assignment. And he explained that he has 2 fighters for the WHOLE howitzer division, one of whom is on a business trip.
            1. +2
              17 December 2023 20: 08
              Quote: your1970
              Did Ukraine burn ALL of their SOVIET tanks?

              Repeatedly. Here, first of all, the decision to have one tank factory in the country right on the border with a potential enemy had an impact.
              So there is practically nothing left from the 2020 Bulatov.

              But Bulat is okay. The Russian Federation lacks T-72. Frankly, I thought it was impossible.
              Quote: your1970
              incorrect due to the large difference in their numbers.

              Naturally. The third year of the Northern Military District is approaching, but we do not see and in the near future will not see large mechanized formations of the Western type.
              In general, no one is interested in the operation of individual machines. Tanks are not used that way.
              1. -2
                17 December 2023 23: 26
                Quote: Negro
                The Russian Federation lacks T-72. Frankly, I thought it was impossible.

                If you had watched how these T-20Bs have been sold back and forth over the last 72 years, you would not be surprised. There are official, well-known deliveries, for example to Syria, where hundreds of tanks ended up, there are also unofficial ones, through Belarus, for example. That is, that same famous reserve from Soviet times for the Northern Military District was already pretty tattered and the numbers on paper diverged greatly from reality.
        2. +9
          17 December 2023 23: 23
          Quote: your1970
          burned 30 Leo out of the delivered 30 is a collapse

          Statistics on the use of Leo2 June-August 2023 - Of the 72 Leo2 participating in the database, 22 Leo2 were hit by mines or ATGMs, 18 Leo2 were restored and put into operation again, 4 were irrevocably. All the crews survived the attack; not a single Leo2 was disintegrated by molecules on a mine, or from being hit by an anti-tank missile. That is, what was known, significant protection for the crew, was confirmed. And harps that can withstand mines have not yet been invented anywhere. But it’s still better to lose a tank than a tank with a crew, as happens many times more often with the T-64 and its reincarnations a la T-72, T-80, T-90.
          1. -2
            17 December 2023 23: 49
            Quote: karabas-barabas
            T-64 and its reincarnations a la T-72, T-80, T-90.

            Kharkov is a completely unique sabotage, even by Soviet standards. The Urals are not that bad after all.
            1. +2
              18 December 2023 00: 35
              Quote: Negro
              Kharkov is a completely unique sabotage, even by Soviet standards. The Urals are not that bad after all.

              I wonder where the Urals would be without the Kharkov T-64? And before that, without the T-54? In my humble opinion, the “Urals” destroyed and pushed the entire Russian tank industry into stagnation after 1991, gobbling up the Omsk, Chelyabinsk and Leningrad design bureaus, and for years they could offer nothing but junk and a complete disregard for Russian tank crews.
              1. -3
                18 December 2023 06: 57
                Quote: karabas-barabas
                The “Urals” destroyed and pushed the entire Russian tank industry into stagnation

                I meant cars.
                Quote: karabas-barabas
                Where would the Urals be without the Kharkov T-64? And before that, without the T-54?

                Yes, right there. Also remember the T-34.

                OK, let's rephrase it. Kharkov made wrecking tanks, and based on their motives, the Urals made simply bad ones 5 years later.
                1. +1
                  18 December 2023 11: 04
                  Quote: Negro
                  OK, let's rephrase it. Kharkov made wrecking tanks, and based on their motives, the Urals made simply bad ones 5 years later.

                  Baron Tonkolyuk vs. GurKhan... it's all the old school vibes. smile
                  1. 0
                    19 December 2023 10: 25
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    vs. GurKhan

                    It’s difficult to call me an “ardent fan of UVZ”: I’m too anti-Soviet for that, who is always a Russophobe. But I consider Kharkov and Morozov personally outstanding even by Soviet standards.
                2. 0
                  6 January 2024 02: 02
                  Quote: Negro
                  Kharkov made wrecking tanks

                  Still, the T-64 was the answer to the Pattons, Leo1, AMX30 and a very powerful answer. And after the release of the A1M1 and Leo2, no one stopped UVZ from creating answers to these tanks, which today have proven their ability to adapt to modern requirements, the layout and engine allow, for example, placing serious mine protection and increasing the armor with modern passive armor, which protects the crew from most RPGs and ATGMs . But UVZ made the T-72 and, in fact, still doesn’t do anything else. The T-90M is still a development of the T-72 and also does not have the ability to increase the bottom like the Leo2 or Abrams, it is limited by the layout and the engine. The T-90M was supposed to be the MBT of the 90s and 2000s, but today, of course, all tanks are knocked out, but the T-90M was torn apart by mines and penetrated the ATGM BO, the air defense system showed that it is still full of weak points, even though it is the best version of the T-72/90. In my opinion, the best Russian MBT was the Black Eagle, with a drum AZ and a full set of control units. Then they created the Burlak turret, which could now be installed on all Russian tanks and be a hit all over the world. But this is not a UVZ product, and it will cost the army.
              2. +1
                18 December 2023 11: 03
                Quote: karabas-barabas
                I wonder where the Urals would be without the Kharkov T-64?

                Two options.
                1. If Kharkov does not make the T-64 at all, then Tagil upgrades the 167 object to the 172M object, after which it offers it as a new first-line tank.
                2. If Kharkov makes the T-64, but does not transfer it to the Urals, then Tagil in the same way completes object 167 to object 172M, after which it provides a feasibility study for a new second-line tank, in addition to the expensive T-64.
                The second option completely replicates the reality. Because whatever you give Tagil KD and TD for the T-64, whatever you don’t give, they will still push through the production of their T-72, frightening the Council of Ministers with terrible figures for the cost and timing of modernizing production for the “alien” T-64.
          2. -2
            18 December 2023 08: 22
            Quote: karabas-barabas
            Of the 72 Leo2s participating in the database, 22 Leo2s were knocked out by mines or ATGMs, 18 Leo2s were restored and put into operation again, 4 were irretrievably damaged.

            After which, mentions of the shot down Leos completely disappeared - that is, either there were no workers left or, just like the Challengers, they were not allowed into battle.
            What difference does it make for the front - they burned it or they can’t be allowed into battle? The story is repeating itself with WWII battleships - they existed, but it was no longer possible to let them into battle.
            Can 72 tanks play a strategic role? No!
            Even at the tactical level there are not enough of them. Moreover, regardless of the lives of the crews
            1. 0
              6 January 2024 01: 41
              If the Armed Forces of Ukraine were equipped according to the NATO standard, that is, with aviation, with the ability to break through minefields and powerful positions on the breakthrough path, then these tanks and infantry fighting vehicles would have the freedom to develop a breakthrough and would play their role even in such numbers in a specific direction. And we don’t know what damage they caused even in this form, yet they also shot. But indeed, at the moment such equipment is hidden, since there is no point in using them. In general, after the first 2-3 weeks of June, mass raids on Russian positions stopped, when everyone saw those epic footage of the blown up Leo2 and next to it half a dozen Bradleys with the same problems. Then the offensive was carried out in small groups and mainly by infantry legs, which led to a significant slowdown in the counter-offensive of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Of course, MBTs and infantry fighting vehicles were used and they were even destroyed, but all this is not so dramatic, the main forces are safe and sound. This, by the way, led to the deterioration of relations with the West, which expected that the Armed Forces of Ukraine would act on a larger scale and more energetically, but Zaluzhny knows half of the General Staff of the Russian Federation personally, did not d...l and decided not to rush too much without the Air Force.
              1. 0
                6 January 2024 09: 01
                Quote: karabas-barabas
                If the Armed Forces of Ukraine were equipped according to the NATO standard, that is, with aviation, with the ability to break through minefields and powerful positions on the breakthrough path, then these tanks and infantry fighting vehicles would have the freedom to develop a breakthrough and would play their role even in such numbers in a specific direction. And we don’t know what damage they caused even in this form, yet they also shot. But indeed, at the moment such equipment is hidden, since there is no point in using them.

                If grandmother had ...
                If Hitler had an extra 20-30 tank divisions, he would wow...
                You understand perfectly well that in war only what happens is what the enemy allows. Due to the availability of forces, means and capabilities to This specific area.
                To burn Hitler's corpse, they drained all the remaining gasoline from all available cars - they collected 2 cans in total.
                That is, 20-30 divisions would have stood still without fuel - this is what the Allies allowed by bombing all fuel production
      2. 0
        20 December 2023 07: 21
        It's not much of a cemetery. I don’t argue that a lot of Soviet-made equipment was destroyed, but what were they? Cars from the 70-80s. Modern weapons also suffered. But it was the SVO that showed all the advertising of the Western military-industrial complex not from the best side. Yes, we also have some work to do. But now the British don’t shout that their tank is the most indestructible, and the Germans are even more silent now. And the much-advertised American doesn’t show his nose at all.
        1. 0
          20 December 2023 07: 27
          Quote: NightWolf1991
          Cars from 70-80xx

          That’s how the USSR ended in the 80s, and no one has done anything since then.
          Quote: NightWolf1991
          But it was the SVO that showed all the advertising of the Western military-industrial complex not from the best side.

          There are certain questions for politicians. No to weapons, works as it should. As for the Germans and the Americans, I will very much surprise you, but it is not tanks that are fighting, but tank divisions.
          1. 0
            20 December 2023 07: 38
            .
            This is how the USSR ended in the 80s, no one has done anything since then

            Come on? And the black eagle? And the same T-72B3, T-90S/M/MS or the Ukrainian Oplot or T-64BVM?

            There are certain questions for politicians. No to weapons, works as it should. As for the Germans and the Americans, I will very much surprise you, but it is not tanks that are fighting, but tank divisions.

            To politicians, yes. There are always questions for them. But as for whether they fight or not fight. I’ll say this: there are people inside their tanks too. And a tank division without people doesn’t fight either. And judging by how all mentions of leopards and challenges have disappeared, either they were removed from the LBS, or there are few of them. I'm more inclined to the first one. But both speak for themselves. Tokmak has not been taken, and there is no way through to Crimea. And footage of burning Bradleys, Challengers and leopards spread all over the world. This means that their losses among tankers were also not small.
    2. +5
      17 December 2023 09: 02
      namely, modern Western weapons - how many were burned and what kind? old Leo, abrashas in the 90s configuration, stingers from the 80s... 90% of the old stuff was delivered and yes - of course there is a lot of it... but the conclusion is directly about modern Western when, by and large, Soviet is fighting against Soviet and Chinese drones are mainly - well, it’s not logical...
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. +1
    17 December 2023 07: 00

    Another widely advertised weapon was the Javelin anti-tank missile system (ATGM).

    An image of a woman with a halo, reminiscent of the iconographic image of the Mother of God, with an American Javelin anti-tank system adorned the wall of one of the houses on the Antonov aircraft designer street. The “Saint Javelina” meme became popular after the start of a military special operation in Ukraine. Various products, T-shirts, patches, etc. are produced with this image.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. -2
      17 December 2023 16: 48
      Kich definitely. And blasphemy!
  8. -10
    17 December 2023 07: 02
    as soon as a real war begins, it immediately puts everything in its place - illusions dissipate as quickly as previously advertised planes fall to the ground and tanks burn
    It is impossible to disagree with this. The SVO really put everything in its place. Those types of weapons that the Ukrainians wrote songs about, named their children after, and even managed to add to icons suddenly somehow faded into the background, and then into the background. It turns out that Western “wonderwaffes” are on fire, go astray, and do not live up to their stated characteristics... Conclusion: you should not rely on the omnipotence of Western weapons when they are used against motivated, well-trained Russian fighters using Russian equipment and weapons.
  9. +8
    17 December 2023 08: 31
    Transportable M777? Well, well... I previously thought that there were towable ones... But Mitrofanov also introduced transportable ones! No... partly, he's right! The M777 was also conceived by the Americans to be transportable...by helicopters! But who gave them to the Ukrainian Armed Forces? And yet, thanks to Mitrofanov for not introducing the term “wearable”!
    1. -2
      17 December 2023 13: 18
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Transportable M777? Well, well... I previously thought that there were towable ones... But Mitrofanov also introduced transportable ones! No... partly, he's right! The M777 was also conceived by the Americans to be transportable...by helicopters! But who gave them to the Ukrainian Armed Forces? And yet, thanks to Mitrofanov for not introducing the term “wearable”!

      As far as I remember, 777 is really rather “transportable” - standard transportation: 4 pcs. into a pile in the back of a truck... And towing is not far, not fast and with a lot of restrictions... hi
      1. +2
        17 December 2023 13: 55
        Quote: engineer74
        And towing is not far, not fast and with a lot of restrictions...

        And yet, I have never seen the M777 transported normally (!) in the back of a truck! But the APUs towed by a truck - more than once! But in principle, a number of guns can be transported in the back of a truck (sometimes they do this), but this does not stop them from being towed. They also make “homemade” self-propelled guns using a towed gun and a suitable truck! Pay attention to the M777 barrel, equipped with a towing eye (like our D30!)
        1. +1
          17 December 2023 17: 28
          Pay attention to the chassis configuration!
          I got excited about the count of 4 pieces.
    2. 0
      18 December 2023 22: 40
      There really were transported ones. For example, the French transported their anti-tank guns on trucks precisely because of the fragility of the wheelbase, and trained crews even learned how to lower them down ramps no worse than unhooking towed ones (it’s more difficult to go back). This experience was partially repeated by the British in Africa. In the USSR in the 50s, they got the hang of carrying guns on the BTR-50 (in order to swim across). In Nazi Germany there was a whole concept of Waffenträgers, which could be both self-propelled guns and towed guns after being removed from the chassis.
    3. 0
      2 January 2024 19: 34
      Look deeper. Easel
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. +10
    17 December 2023 10: 00
    It is quite difficult to understand the purpose for which such materials are posted by the end of the second year of the CBO.
    In general, mass deliveries of the Stinger P3RK did not live up to the hopes placed on them and did not protect the Ukrainian Armed Forces from Russian aviation

    How is Russian aviation doing? Where is she? Does it work from the Caspian Sea?
    The Ukrainian Armed Forces expected to resist the armored fists of the Russian Armed Forces

    How are the armored fists doing?
    potential buyers would rather prefer the Russian Lancet-type kamikaze UAV]

    They compared the toes to a finger.
    It turned out that for Russian air defense systems, the Turkish “bird” is far from the most difficult target.

    A homeless-class drone is not a difficult target for any air defense systems. That's not what he was invented for.
    However, on a battlefield oversaturated with counter-battery weapons, the life of transportable artillery is often short-lived

    Meanwhile, the artillery materiel of one NATO corps stands against everything that the USSR riveted into the Third World War. And we haven’t heard anything about WWII-style artillery offensives for a long time. The whining of partners about the difficulties with organizing the production of shells can be heard without interruption, but I haven’t heard stories about the consumption of shells in trains, as in the first year of the Northern Military District, for a very long time.
    Damaged Leopard 2 MBT and other Western armored vehicles

    In the photo, the armored group drove around a stationary engineering vehicle and immediately took off its shoes on the mines. These are either sheep or deserters who destroyed the cars on purpose. Fortunately, the equipment protected them: - the hatches are open, the fire is not visible.
    there are F-16 fighters. Let's hope that the Russian Armed Forces will not disappoint the Armed Forces of Ukraine and American taxpayers by ensuring the disposal of these aircraft as soon as possible

    American taxpayers don’t care; the United States is not yet participating in the aircraft coalition. But let’s say the crews of the helicopters, which are doing this right from the pitching up, are very interested in who is now last in line for destruction.
    1. -7
      17 December 2023 11: 18
      Quote: Negro
      How is Russian aviation doing? Where is she? Does it work from the Caspian Sea?

      Is it Russian aviation flying FABs with UMPC all the way from the Caspian Sea? Then such systems “have no analogues in the world” laughing
      Quote: Negro
      How are the armored fists doing?

      Armored fists remained in the memories of WWII. Now the realities are different. And the Javelins remained unclaimed among them. Just “Lancets” and FPV drones with a shot from an RPG-7 taped up with tape turned out to be much more effective than ATGMs. Because they operate at long ranges and have the ability to approach a target from any angle.
      Quote: Negro
      A homeless-class drone is not a difficult target for any air defense systems. That's not what he was invented for.

      Elite-class drones for air defense systems are also not a problem.
      Quote: Negro
      Meanwhile, the artillery materiel of one NATO corps stands against everything that the USSR riveted into the Third World War.

      What the USSR riveted into the Third World War is in service with the entire former USSR and beyond. Ukraine inherited a decent portion of the Soviet legacy.
      Quote: Negro
      The whining of partners about the difficulties with organizing the production of shells can be heard without interruption, but I haven’t heard stories about the consumption of shells in trains, as in the first year of the Northern Military District, for a very long time.

      Who would you like to hear this from? The Ukrovoyaks near Krynki and Avdeevka will tell you better about this.
      Quote: Negro
      In the photo, the armored group drove around a stationary engineering vehicle and immediately took off its shoes on the mines. These are either sheep or deserters who destroyed the cars on purpose. Fortunately, the equipment protected them: - the hatches are open, the fire is not visible.

      What do you call those who sent these sheep to minefields without air support? The mines did their job, and, as the tankers themselves say, most crews die not in the tank, but next to the tank.
      Quote: Negro
      But let’s say the crews of the helicopters, which are doing this right from the pitching up, are very interested in who is now last in line for destruction.

      Which one will they fall into? And it’s very difficult to get in from a pitch-up, just like pitch-ups. A stupid idea. "Grad" would have coped with this task better.
    2. +6
      17 December 2023 18: 19
      It is quite difficult to understand the purpose for which such materials are posted by the end of the second year of the CBO.
      In general, it’s not difficult to understand, sir: the more primitive the agitation and propaganda, the better! winked
    3. -5
      17 December 2023 20: 36
      Quote: Negro
      Meanwhile, the artillery materiel of one NATO corps stands against everything that the USSR riveted into the Third World War.

      What are you even writing about? Do you have your own battles going on in your head or is that what they say on UkroTV?
      1. +8
        17 December 2023 20: 45
        Quote: Vasia
        What are you even writing about?

        About 200 towed guns, a comparable number of self-propelled guns, and one or two divisional sets of rocket artillery were supplied as souvenirs. This is the artillery unit of the NATO corps, not the strongest. Moreover, without network-centricity, connections with other branches of the military, everything that makes a modern army modern. Against this are all the remnants of Soviet artillery wealth that the Russian Federation inherited - and the USSR always leaned heavily on artillery.

        And we see approximate parity in this area.
        1. -5
          17 December 2023 21: 13
          On the one hand, you listed in numbers:
          Quote: Negro
          About 200 towed guns, a comparable number of self-propelled guns, and one or two divisional sets of rocket artillery were supplied as souvenirs. This is the artillery unit of the NATO corps, not the strongest.

          On the other hand, you write about "that the USSR riveted on the third world war"Or"all remnants of Soviet artillery wealth inherited by the Russian Federation". So list them in numbers, and the absurdity of your comment will become clear.
          And why are you only counting towed guns? And you also do not take into account the initial forces of the Ukrainian Armed Forces without taking into account supplies from the West.
          According to your comment, it turns out that Ukrainians with 200 towed guns are fighting against the Russian army, armed with all the weapons of the USSR (we don’t have enough personnel for such a number of weapons). But in fact, it’s far from fightingthe majority of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation against the army of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, to which the West has already provided military and financial assistance in an amount exceeding the budget of the Russian army for two years.
          1. +3
            17 December 2023 21: 21
            Quote: Vasia
            And why are you only counting towed guns?

            I count all artillery, except mortars: towed, self-propelled and rocket.
            Quote: Vasia
            So list it in numbers too

            List them, I'm lazy.
            Quote: Vasia
            And also do not take into account the initial forces of the Ukrainian Armed Forces

            Long since stolen.
            Quote: Vasia
            The West has already provided military and financial assistance in an amount exceeding the budget of the Russian army for two years.

            Let's not talk about amounts. In Russia it is generally accepted that Russian corrupt officials are the most corrupt corrupt officials in the world. There is no need to deprive people of at least this reason for pride.
            1. 0
              17 December 2023 21: 23
              Quote: Negro
              List them, I'm lazy.

              You don't have to answer, thank you.
              1. +7
                17 December 2023 21: 30
                I stated theses: 1. The USSR leaned on artillery, most of the Soviet artillery went to the Russian Federation, 2. Extremely limited forces act against it. 3. The result is parity or close to parity. In general, we see the failure of the Russian/Soviet artillery, which was unable to translate its multiple numerical advantage into successes at least at the operational level.

                If you want to challenge any of this with numbers, try it. I won't work for you.
                1. -3
                  17 December 2023 21: 47
                  Quote: Negro
                  I stated theses:

                  You stated, clearly “distorting” the facts:
                  the artillery materiel of one NATO corps resists everything that the USSR riveted into the Third World War.

                  I think that you are wrong, as I said above:
                  in fact, it would be far from fightingthe majority of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation against the army of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, to which the West has already provided military and financial assistance in an amount exceeding the budget of the Russian army for two years.

                  I think my wording describes what is happening more objectively.
                  There was nothing intelligible in response, just “slogans” about theft and the most corrupt Russian officials.
                  1. +6
                    17 December 2023 23: 44
                    At the beginning of the Northern Military District, the RF Armed Forces had a 20-fold advantage in artillery, barrels, and an even greater advantage in ammunition, a 60-fold advantage. It was thanks to the supply of those several hundred 777, Tsezarev, Pts2000, Crabs and a couple of dozen Khimars that the Armed Forces of Ukraine managed to achieve parity in art. It so happened that the Lancet became the only counter-battery, high-precision, long-range weapon of the RF Armed Forces. And for what reason is a “small” part of the RF Armed Forces fighting?? That is, most of the RF Armed Forces are sitting in parts, fully armed? You tell this to the mobilized wives, who have not seen their husbands for more than a year, they will immediately answer you in fact.
                    1. -2
                      18 December 2023 00: 15
                      You are contradicting yourself. If, as you say:
                      "At the beginning of the Northern Military District, the RF Armed Forces had a 20-fold advantage in artillery, barrels, and an even greater advantage in ammunition, a 60-fold advantage."
                      how is the delivery"several hundred 777, Tsezarev, Pts2000, Krabs and a couple of dozen Khimars of the Armed Forces of Ukraine"could help"achieve parity in art"Where do you even get these crazy calculations about a 20-fold advantage? Could you please share the source? I would like to see these numbers? And you don’t want to say that the Russian Federation threw all its artillery at the beginning of the Northern Military District to the front.
                      Quote: karabas-barabas
                      And for what reason is a “small” part of the RF Armed Forces fighting?? That is, most of the RF Armed Forces are sitting in parts, fully armed?

                      Firstly, I wrote "not far"lshaya" and not "small". Secondly, do you want to say that in all the HF RF there is only one guard left, everyone is fighting?
                      You tell this to the mobilized wives, who have not seen their husbands for more than a year, they will immediately answer you in fact.

                      Those who were mobilized were mobilized for this purpose, so that they could be involved in the Northern Military District without damaging the existing units and not expose other directions.
                      1. +1
                        18 December 2023 01: 27
                        Quote: Vasia
                        You are contradicting yourself. If, as you say:
                        “At the beginning of the Northern Military District, the RF Armed Forces had a 20-fold advantage in artillery and barrels, and an even greater advantage in ammunition, 60-fold.”
                        then how could the supply of “several hundred 777, Tsezarev, Pts2000, Crabs and a couple of dozen Khimars of the Armed Forces of Ukraine” help “achieve parity in art”?

                        With high precision, they were able to create parity within a year. Starting with a homemade network-centric system, on Ukrainian software and American hard drive, like Starlink, in which the video of each drone and other cameras went into the central information system, which made it possible to react much faster, ending with the high accuracy and range of the artillery systems themselves, where instead of 60 shells, 3 are enough . Apparently, after 2 years of the SVO, you have not yet worn out the programs of Prokopenko and TV Zvizda, and you apparently did not follow the progress of the SVO, since you have some kind of contradictions.
                        Quote: Vasia
                        Where do you even get these crazy calculations about a 20-fold advantage? Could you please share the source? I would like to see these numbers?

                        If you don’t know something, do you always call it nonsense? You can look for articles and other information on this topic yourself. In fact, the weapons arsenals of almost all armies in the world are constantly being calculated and recalculated, and the figures given by the neutral party and myself are still conservative. And the fact that the Russian Federation had a 20-fold superiority in artillery systems at the beginning of the Northeast Military District is probably at least a 60-fold superiority in ammunition. In general, before you use words like “delusional”, first use your numbers, since you know better how it really happened. This multiple superiority was endured by Khimars for months; huge arsenals of ammunition and hundreds of artillery and MLRS units were destroyed, forcing the RF Armed Forces to completely change their logistics, which slowed down losses.
                        Quote: Vasia
                        And you don’t want to say that the Russian Federation threw all its artillery at the beginning of the Northern Military District to the front.

                        No I do not want to? Where did you get this from? All these 155mm art, Khimars appeared in the 3rd month of the war, actually. But the numbers were 20 times greater in artillery and 6 times greater in BC at the beginning of the war, and these were general figures of what was at the front at the beginning of the Northern Military District and in the reserves.
                        Quote: Vasia
                        Secondly, do you want to say that in all the HF RF there is only one guard left, everyone is fighting?

                        If we take all the law enforcement agencies, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Federal Protective Service, the Federal Penitentiary Service, etc., etc. then they are mostly all at home. But the RF Armed Forces have almost no reserves, otherwise they would not have mobilized and would not have kept those mobilized at the front at all times. The question is not that the men in Russia have run out and there is no one to fight, but the size of the active army, which was before February 2022, is clearly not sufficient for such large wars, as mobilization itself showed.
                        Quote: Vasia
                        Those who were mobilized were mobilized for this purpose, so that they could be involved in the Northern Military District without damaging the existing units and not expose other directions.

                        Why do we need an army for which those whom this army is actually supposed to protect should fight? Military service, as it were, implies damage to the lives of military personnel in the event of war, and mobilization when these military personnel are not enough to hold the front. This is what happened after a series of defeats in the summer-autumn of 2022. It’s one thing when you talk like that about prisoners from Sturm and Wagner, whose mobilization Prigozhin spoke about - Do you want your children to go to the front instead of these prisoners? It’s completely different when we’re talking about law-abiding men who came to the military registration and enlistment office on a summons. While military personnel, contract soldiers and even prisoners can take a leave of absence after 6 months of service, tens of thousands of “mobiks” have been sitting at the front for more than a year. In my opinion, this is not correct and does not increase the popularity of this SVO in Russia.
                      2. 0
                        18 December 2023 02: 24
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        Apparently, after 2 years of the SVO, you have not yet worn out the programs of Prokopenko and TV Zvizda, and you apparently did not follow the progress of the SVO, since you have some kind of contradictions.

                        If you don’t know something, do you always call it nonsense? You can look for articles and other information on this topic yourself.

                        The fact of the matter is that I was watching, but nowhere did I hear about such a ratio with a 20-fold superiority of the Russian Federation in artillery at the front. All estimates indicate either a comparable ratio of artillery at the front, or an approximately twofold superiority of the Russian Federation. That's why I rate this as nonsense, because... your data differs not even by several times, but by an order of magnitude, and you were unable to support your information with a link to at least some sane source.
                        I’ll give a link from overseas sources, since you don’t like “TV Zvizda” so much:
                        At the beginning of the confrontation, Ukraine and Russia had qualitatively comparable forces in the field of artillery. According to the British Royal United Services Institute (RUSI), Kyiv fielded 1176 cannon artillery systems and 1680 MLRS of all calibers, while Moscow countered with 2433 canned artillery systems and 3547 MLRS. Given the constant supply, both sides were able to maintain an exchange of artillery strikes on virtually equal terms for some time. This led to losses on both sides. However, in the spring the situation changed significantly. The Russian side has achieved qualitative superiority. By the summer, its artillery had achieved total dominance on the battlefield.


                        https://news.ru/russia/vpervye-s-1945-go-goda-kakie-uroki-prepodnesla-svo-dlya-voennoj-taktiki/
                        https://static.rusi.org/359-SR-Ukraine-Preliminary-Lessons-Feb-July-2022-web-final.pdf

                        After the artillery, ukrov were regularly replenished by the West; according to various sources, from several hundred to over 1500 guns were supplied.
                        https://topwar.ru/222466-vsu-poluchili-svyshe-polutora-tysjach-edinic-artillerii-v-polskoj-presse-ocenili-postavki-artsistem-s-zapada.html
                      3. 0
                        6 January 2024 17: 10
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        while military personnel, contract soldiers and even prisoners after 6 months of BD can later take a vacation, tens of thousands of “mobiks” have been sitting idle for more than a year at the front.

                        A colleague’s husband, who was mobilized, came on leave NG 3 times. Before that he came for 3 weeks, but now he was released for a month. He said that some were taken out and many were released on leave.
                        There are dead and wounded mainly from shelling and drones.
                        At least 2 more mobilized in the city whom I personally know were on vacation.
                    2. 0
                      18 December 2023 11: 28
                      Quote: karabas-barabas
                      And for what reason is a “small” part of the RF Armed Forces fighting?? That is, most of the RF Armed Forces are sitting in parts, fully armed?

                      So there is no war. There is only SVO.
                      This means that only contract soldiers and those mobilized after the start of the Northern Military District can be sent to the combat zone. And conscripts, at best, will sit in the old territories, supporting the border guards on the northern flank.

                      In our country, after the furniture maker left, we decided that contract soldiers alone in the first line units is too expensive, let’s again fill the permanent readiness brigades with conscripts. And behind them are the divisions deployed from the brigades. So again we got divisions fighting with combined BTGs.
                  2. 0
                    17 December 2023 23: 45
                    Quote: Vasia
                    The West has already provided military and financial assistance in an amount exceeding the budget of the Russian army for two years.

                    I am not interested in the amounts - I do not participate in their theft. I don’t see a single complete brigade in the western materiel. For the West, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are nothing more than just another Papuans - and even then, let’s say, they themselves fit in with the Kurds, but not with the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

                    I spoke specifically about artillery.
        2. 0
          18 December 2023 21: 34
          Quote: Negro
          About 200 towed guns, a comparable number of self-propelled guns, and one or two divisional sets of rocket artillery were supplied as souvenirs. This is the artillery unit of the NATO corps, not the strongest.

          It is not entirely clear which NATO corps we are talking about. If we're talking about the Cold War, yes. But then they had slightly different equipment. If we talk about the current ones, then this is not “an artillery unit of the NATO corps, not the strongest,” but an artillery unit of two European NATO countries at once, and the strongest. This can be said about the American corps, of which there are 3 for the entire army (the ground component of the USMC can be considered one more). But by Russian standards, these corps (especially the 3rd) are not even armies, but fronts or formations of fronts. But by European standards there are no such standards at all; these corps are stronger than the Arme de Terre or the Bundeswehr as a whole.
          1. 0
            19 December 2023 06: 44
            Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
            It is not entirely clear which NATO corps we are talking about.

            Normally, a corps commands three divisions when at full strength, along with other units such as artillery of various types, corps-level engineers and support units. However, VII Corps had far more firepower under its command. It consisted of 1,487 tanks, 1,384 infantry fighting vehicles, 568 artillery pieces, 132 MLRS, 8 missile launchers, and 242 attack helicopters. It had a total troop strength of 146,321 troops.

            This, of course, is precisely the “strongest” corps (VII Corps was probably the most powerful formation of its type ever to take to the battlefield). However, it will serve as a guideline.
            Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
            these corps are stronger than the Arme de Terre or the entire Bundeswehr

            If we are talking about Europe, then the only artillery army is the Polish one after everything that they signed in recent years comes to them. And so, for the definition of “serious artillery” by the South Koreans, ask.
            1. +1
              20 December 2023 23: 13
              Quote: Negro
              However, it will serve as a guideline.

              Disbanded in 1992 - will not work, 31 years have passed. Now the US ground forces have equipment in two such corps, and in all of Europe, God forbid, in one.

              Quote: Negro
              If we are talking about Europe, then the only artillery army is the Polish one after everything that they have signed in recent years comes to them.

              Well, they're trying. Some actions, of course, look strange, but the vector is correct.

              Quote: Negro
              And so, for the definition of “serious artillery” by the South Koreans, ask.

              I was interested. But this is not “serious artillery”, it is (in the barrel part already now, in the missile part soon) by a good margin the most serious artillery in the world. But this should not have been a discovery made over the last 30 years: “in the modern world, armed forces should prepare not for a clash of millions of armies, but for confronting international terrorism, cybercrime and humanitarian disasters.” YK, one might say, was lucky that all these years they had a cheerful neighbor behind the fence.
              1. +1
                21 December 2023 08: 09
                Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
                Disbanded in 1992 - won't work

                Okay, fifth.
                Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
                funny neighbor behind the fence.

                A cheerful neighbor is generally a big plus, as it turned out. Look, look at the Jews. The worst thing the USSR could do for the damned West was to fall apart.
                Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
                not to a clash of millions of armies, but to confronting international terrorism, cybercrime and humanitarian disasters

                Worse. The main task of the Pentagon and the IDF, not to mention the European armies, is the fight against climate change and the violation of the rights of underrepresented minorities. At least that’s what the heads of the relevant departments said.

                A hint that the elves' military power has deteriorated? That in Europe we have reached a state in the second half of the 40s, when the elves do not have a ground army, and they do not have the courage to use bombs? Yes, there is such a point of view. Another thing is that I wouldn’t count on it that much.

                However, we have gone off topic. The artillery power of today's Ukraine is comparable to a strong third world army, such as the Egyptian one. At the same time, in other aspects, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are certainly not a strong army of the third world. Not even the average African level: look, the Houthis in slippers are launching medium-range missiles.
                1. +1
                  21 December 2023 21: 15
                  Quote: Negro
                  Worse. The main task of the Pentagon and the IDF, not to mention the European armies, is the fight against climate change and the violation of the rights of underrepresented minorities.

                  As far as I know, the most underrepresented minority in the IDF are the Haredim. There are even more Arabs serving, not to mention LGBT people (banned in the Russian Federation), who serve without exception on a general basis. And the main right that Haredim defend is to continue to be underrepresented.

                  In general, I don’t see any particular problem at this point - from the Spartans to Frederick the Great (we’ll leave the placement of the Royal Navy in this rank on Churchill’s conscience), the peculiarities of sexual life did not interfere with excellent fighting. And in the current conditions, even a bonus to loyalty, they will be angrier against all sorts of Iran and Russia. The main problem of Western armies is not gays in the ranks, but impotent men at the head.

                  A hint that the elves' military power has deteriorated? That in Europe we have reached a state in the second half of the 40s, when the elves do not have a ground army, and they do not have the courage to use bombs? Yes, there is such a point of view. Another thing is that I wouldn’t count on it that much.

                  Military power, after all the degradation, is sufficient even now, but it is only sufficient in aggregate, when all the small armies add up to one mega-army. But on the threshold of 2024, it is not at all obvious that they are ready to take shape. The United States will say that it will not fight for some unknown Baltic region until the issue of migration is resolved, and in general, “you can’t just throw away an ally,” the Europeans will wait for Hungary’s consent, and the Turks will trade with both sides. There is no desire to check this at all, but it is precisely this course of action that inevitably increases the number of people who want to check.

                  Quote: Negro
                  The artillery power of today's Ukraine is comparable to a strong third world army, such as the Egyptian one.

                  The strength of the army does not directly depend on the first or third world. The magic of the first world will not equalize the Canadian Hornet (not “super”), falling apart from old age, with the Egyptian Rafale or 1300 Egyptian Abramos with 0 Dutch Leopards. Most likely, even the first world is going into a minus - the army of the third world will use a comparable amount of money much more adequately than the army of the first world.

                  Quote: Negro
                  The Houthis in slippers are launching medium-range missiles.

                  Well, their sponsor is not worried about the risk of escalation, the Hungarians and the Republicans.
                  1. +1
                    23 December 2023 16: 08
                    Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
                    Well, their sponsor is not worried about the risk of escalation, the Hungarians and the Republicans.

                    The sponsor mentioned simply does not consider what is happening to be their problem. What happens when liberals consider what is happening to be their problem - see the current Gaza Strip.
                    Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
                    the army of the third world will use a comparable amount of money much more adequately than the army of the first world

                    )))
                    At this point, I usually propose comparing the budgets of the RF Armed Forces and the IDF.
                    Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
                    First world magic won't equalize

                    A first world country with unlimited access to “NATO standards” can get a much more serious military force for the same money than the sanctioned beggars. Another thing is that a first world country, with a few exceptions, does not consider it necessary to deal with military issues.
                    Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
                    The USA will say that they will not fight for some unknown Baltic states

                    Therefore, we see the return of the cordon sanitaire idea. The countries that the Russian Federation claims to liberate must have enough military power to defend themselves independently. Fortunately, it’s not as difficult as it turned out.
                    Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
                    The main problem with Western armies is not gays in the ranks.

                    This means "underrepresented in command." And the appointment of commanders based on class characteristics leads everyone knows where.
                    1. +1
                      23 December 2023 23: 37
                      Quote: Negro
                      )))
                      At this point, I usually propose comparing the budgets of the RF Armed Forces and the IDF.

                      I don’t want to be Anchutka’s lawyer, but still the needs of the two armies are very different. Israel occupies an area smaller than the Ivanovo region, where troops can travel from one end of the country to the other at one gas station. Plus, Israel, due to its pleasant neighborhood, has always taken military development more seriously than most countries of any number in the world, even when it itself was frankly poor and not very technically developed. As already mentioned, the merry fellow behind the fence keeps you on your toes (although it’s October 7th... yes, and the Jews are not the same anymore). But even relaxed Israel is an exception for the first world. You can compare the budgets of the Russian Armed Forces and the Royal Canadian Armed Forces (whose budget, take a breath, more Israeli).

                      Quote: Negro
                      A first world country with unlimited access to “NATO standards” can get a much more serious military force for the same money than the sanctioned beggars.

                      Well, here is the aforementioned Canada. Undoubtedly the first world, its very cream (the country is part of the Big Seven). He spends quite a lot of money on defense - money more than Israeli money, half South Korean money, half official Russian money before well-known events. For this money, the country ends up with something extremely strange with a total population of 90 people. The air force with 000 ancient Hornets, the ground forces with 80 tanks (mostly also not the first freshness) and 70 towed howitzers (there is conflicting information about whether they returned 37 French 28 mm from the reserve). No air defense, no MLRS, no self-propelled guns, no attack helicopters. Another fleet of 105 submarines and 4 light frigates +/- 12 years ago. For comparison, the definitely third world country Egypt, with a military budget (even taking into account American and Arabian aid) is 30-2 times smaller than Canada’s, even has a stronger fleet, not to mention the rest.

                      Quote: Negro
                      Therefore, we see the return of the cordon sanitaire idea. The countries that the Russian Federation claims to liberate must have enough military power to defend themselves independently.

                      A-ha-ha, that is, meow. At their own expense, they physically will not be able to have so much power (except perhaps Poland, and the problem with it is that ordering is much more pleasant than paying for what is ordered), and America does not demonstrate a great desire to supply even those who are already at war.

                      Quote: Negro
                      This means "underrepresented in command." And the appointment of commanders based on class characteristics leads everyone knows where.

                      The Kaiser's General Staff was almost entirely composed of representatives of one very small class (and they say there were only one of those banned in the Russian Federation). It seemed to handle well, better than any of the current ones.
                      1. 0
                        24 December 2023 08: 29
                        Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
                        The Kaiser's General Staff was almost entirely composed of representatives of one very small class

                        Hereditary generals of the General Staff? In NATO countries the case is different. There, a person interested in military issues cannot lead the army.
                        Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
                        At their own expense, they physically cannot have so much power

                        The economies of the countries that take Russian television programs to heart (Finland-Poland+Baltics+Ukraine) are approximately equal to Russia’s. Therefore, if you don’t bother with nonsense, the balance of military power is obvious. Another thing is that since the word “Ukraine” is above, “not to engage in nonsense” will not work.
                        Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
                        Well, here's the aforementioned Canada

                        It's simpler - Canada doesn't have an army. Its military budget is a thinly disguised social program. By the way, this also applies to Germany. It's stupid to ask what Jews could do with a Canadian or German military budget: Canadians/Germans do not want to do this.

                        Speaking of Prussian officers. The main advantage of the Canadian Minister of War is that he is not Canadian. That's why he was hired for this job, to implement the CRPI on diversity.
                        Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
                        there troops from one end of the country to the other can get to one gas station

                        In the Russian Federation, does all the money go to gasoline? Well, that explains a lot.
                        Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
                        Plus, Israel, due to its pleasant neighborhood, has always taken military development more seriously than most countries of any number in the world, even when it itself was frankly poor and not very technically developed

                        EXACTLY.
  12. -3
    17 December 2023 10: 11
    the point is not in the inferiority of weapons, but in the change in the nature of the war, equipment is knocked out by drones and cassette guns and blown up by mines, even before it has time to approach the front line, the offensive is carried out by assault groups with the support of artillery and their drones, they make their way through ruins and forest belts, hiding behind every stump and barn, on the battlefield, civilian models in the form of cheap drones rule, and not specialized military ones, mass production and price are more important than combat qualities, that’s why the bayraktars have gone into the sunset, they have long been saying that the army should be merged as much as possible with the civilian sector and not riveting wunderwaffles on the original chassis, in our country this is an even bigger problem than in the West, the Swedes for some reason managed to make the Archer self-propelled guns on the chassis of a Volvo dump truck, and for some reason our Malva needed the original BAZ-6610-027 chassis, which is practically impossible to find on the farm. ..
    1. 0
      17 December 2023 10: 29
      the point is not in the inferiority of weapons, but in the change in the nature of the war, equipment is knocked out by drones and cassette guns and blown up by mines, even before it has time to approach the front line, the offensive is carried out by assault groups with the support of artillery and their drones, they make their way through ruins and forest belts, hiding behind every stump and barn, on the battlefield, civilian models in the form of cheap drones rule, and not specialized military ones, mass production and price are more important than combat qualities, that’s why the bayraktars have gone into the sunset, they have long been saying that the army should be merged as much as possible with the civilian sector and not riveting wunderwaffles on the original chassis, in our country this is an even bigger problem than in the West, the Swedes for some reason managed to make the Archer self-propelled guns on the chassis of a Volvo dump truck, and for some reason our Malva needed the original BAZ-6610-027 chassis, which is practically impossible to find on the farm. ..

      Why did the nature of the war change? What prevents, as in the good old days, powerful tank columns, under the cover of aviation.....
      In principle, that’s how it started. wink
    2. +3
      17 December 2023 10: 38
      Quote: Max1984
      They have been saying for a long time that the army should be merged with the civilian sector as much as possible and not rivet wunderwaffles on original chassis, in our country this is an even bigger problem than in the West, the Swedes for some reason managed to make an Archer self-propelled gun on the chassis of a Volvo dump truck, and for some reason our Malva needed original chassis BAZ-6610-027 which is practically not found on the farm...

      By your logic, should tanks/infantry fighting vehicles be built on the basis of tracked tractors? BAZ carries not only Malva, but also air defense systems. It would also be nice to install long-range MLRS and OTRK on it. Or maybe also the same civilian dump trucks.
    3. 0
      18 December 2023 11: 35
      Quote: Max1984
      For some reason, the Swedes managed to make an Archer self-propelled gun on the chassis of a Volvo dump truck, and for some reason our Malva needed the original BAZ-6610-027 chassis, which is practically impossible to find on the farm...

      Hehehehe... but the Swedes, based on their experience in operating the first batch of Archers, ordered the second batch on the Rheinmetall HX2 8x8 special chassis.
  13. +15
    17 December 2023 10: 27
    Western “wunderwaffes” that did not live up to the hopes of the Ukrainian armed forces


    Seriously? Wasn't it justified? Why and for whom are you writing this? Who are you reassuring/misleading? Myself? Defense Ministry command? The President? Or the relatives of soldiers and officers killed by this “unfulfilled hope” weapon.

    I don’t understand, is Military Review an analytical resource or a resource of mediocre propaganda?

    In general, the massive deliveries of the Stinger P3RK did not live up to the hopes placed on them and did not protect the Ukrainian Armed Forces from Russian aviation; the skies over Ukraine are now mostly covered by other anti-aircraft missile and anti-aircraft artillery systems.


    They were justified and how, if at the beginning of the Northern Military District we flew wherever we wanted, and lost a bunch of planes and helicopters and were FORCED to switch to new tactics, now even our helicopters don’t fly closer than 7 km to the LBS.

    You can detect a large air defense system by detecting the area where it is operating, go at low altitude and find a detour route to hit some target, but it is impossible to predict under what bush the enemy with the MANPADS is sitting.

    Therefore, the supply of thousands of MANPADS for the Ukrainian Armed Forces fully met their hopes. They closed their skies to our aviation!!!

    instead of the Javelin anti-tank missile system that has “lost its charisma.”


    The Javelin is very effective and the enemy burned a lot of our armor with it, which is why our offensive stopped and we still have no protection from this complex!!! So, this system has justified itself. The fact that they are not visible in the videos on Telegram does not mean that they are not supplied; they appear in every military aid package from the United States.

    It turned out that for Russian air defense systems, the Turkish “bird” is far from the most difficult target.


    Are our planes, helicopters and UAVs a difficult target for Ukrainian air defense? No. It's all about the tactics of application. If at the beginning of the Northern Military District Bayraktar was used as an attack UAV, now as a reconnaissance UAV, its OLS allows you to see very far from the LBS and very well, as a result of the work of Bayraktarov as well, we left Zmeiny Island. So, it is very wrong to say that the Bayraktar UAV is ineffective.

    There is also no need to write about NATO artillery, MLRS and armored vehicles in a derogatory tone, yes, they suffer losses, but the enemy’s artillery and MLRS shoot and shoot FURTHER than ours and shoot ACCURATELY and can hit targets deep in our rear with high-precision ammunition, Leopards and Bradleys can be knocked out and they burn, but certainly not stronger than our equipment, and often when its crew and troops are defeated, they manage to leave it, and ours, just in case of defeat, often instantly explodes, leaving no chance for the crew to survive. The reason for this is the Soviet concept of compact armored vehicles, because of which, firstly, no matter where it goes, you will end up either in the tank or in the armored vehicle, and secondly, it is inconvenient for the crew and it will not be possible to leave a quickly burning armored personnel carrier or infantry fighting vehicle or MTLB .

    Our BTR-82 will only fit 4 troops in equipment, if 6, then 2 will sit on their knees or all sideways, it’s impossible to drag a wounded person inside at all, but NATO Strykers, M113 and Bradley allow you to quickly leave the vehicle and transport everything inside, anything.
    We need new armored personnel carriers and new infantry fighting vehicles.

    Well, in general, let’s not engage in mischief and not bring nonsense to the masses, which ultimately calms decision makers and does not motivate them to do something useful and effective for the army, let’s work for a positive result, competently approach the analysis of the enemy’s weapons and tactics , adopt something useful and become more effective yourself!!!
    1. +5
      17 December 2023 12: 25
      This author has not yet gone through the radars and the anti-ship component, there, as another classic writes, “little, late, useless,” which is evidenced by the fleet that sailed to Novorossiysk.
    2. 0
      17 December 2023 13: 40
      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
      They were justified and how, if at the beginning of the Northern Military District we flew wherever we wanted, and lost a bunch of planes and helicopters and were FORCED to switch to new tactics, now even our helicopters don’t fly closer than 7 km to the LBS.

      That’s right, it was necessary to fly not as they wanted, but as needed, taking into account the unsuppressed air defense, then there would not have been a bunch of lost aircraft. And the air defense system itself had to start from the “basics” - with the suppression of air defense.
      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
      Therefore, the supply of thousands of MANPADS for the Ukrainian Armed Forces fully met their hopes. They closed their skies to our aviation!!!

      MANPADS blocked the sky over the positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. And even then not completely. They are not able to cover UABs, shells of large MLRS and TOS. They are also practically useless against high-altitude targets.
      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
      The Javelin is very effective and the enemy burned a lot of our armor with it, which is why our offensive stopped and we still have no protection from this complex!!! So, this system has justified itself.

      This is not the merit of the Javelin, but the failure of our “strategists” who organized an “offensive” in the style of the “storming of Grozny” with mechanized columns on the “Dudaev Palace”. It’s just some kind of deja vu.... Then the militants of the illegal armed formations burned many of our tanks with conventional RPGs. What can we say about the Javelin, which they used to work on the BT moving along roads and fields without any cover. Or even reconnaissance.
      The folds of the terrain and buildings provided protection from this complex. And “barbecues” manufactured and tested in production can quite protect against attacks by “Javelins”. But they began to study them seriously only much later.
      1. Lad
        +2
        17 December 2023 21: 20
        That’s right, it was necessary to fly not as they wanted, but as needed, taking into account the unsuppressed air defense, then there would not have been a bunch of lost aircraft. And the air defense system itself had to start from the “basics” - with the suppression of air defense.

        So, on the very first day, all (ALL!!!) of the air defense was completely destroyed. How could you not fly? )))
        1. +2
          18 December 2023 13: 34
          Quote: Lad
          So, on the very first day, all (ALL!!!) of the air defense was completely destroyed. How could you not fly? )))

          “All air defense” was destroyed for TV. For the military, this could have become a “surprise” only on the first day of the Northern Military District, but the very first losses should have shown that not everything was so smooth and it was necessary to immediately rebuild tactics. We won’t find out how it really was anytime soon.
          1. Lad
            0
            18 December 2023 20: 18
            So the point is that “on TV” has nothing in common with “in reality”. And not only on TV. And the articles on this site also have nothing to do with reality.
      2. 0
        17 December 2023 23: 54
        Quote: Askold65
        And “barbecues” manufactured and tested in production can quite protect against attacks by “Javelins”.

        Braziers do not help against Javelin, since Javelin has 800mm after the leading charge overcomes the DZ. Braziers help against drones with grenades very effectively, and sometimes kamikaze drones, since they usually carry a mono warhead from an RPG7 and a previously initiated detonation can divert the cumulative jet. But the Javelin, which hits from above, penetrates both the grill and the tank below it.
        1. 0
          18 December 2023 13: 26
          Quote: karabas-barabas
          But the Javelin, which hits from above, penetrates both the grill and the tank below it.

          Here is a video from “Military Acceptance” about the modernization of the T-80, where they install “barbecues” from the developer and tested on captured Javelins and NLAW.
          See from 5:50
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqijya4-J1o&ab_channel=Zvezda_live13.0
    3. 0
      17 December 2023 16: 27
      I was going to write the same thing. Then I read your post and thought there was nothing to add. My respects for your objectivity hi
    4. 0
      18 December 2023 22: 54
      Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
      let's not engage in mischief and not spread nonsense to the masses

      I used to think so too, but then I thought a little better and realized: it is precisely because of mischief that this resource exists in its current form. While three-quarters of authors and commentators speak in the style of “the destruction of an armored group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was caught on camera, but ours was not” and other things “the Bulgarians admired it,” the remaining quarter can sometimes cautiously push through not only normal comments, but sometimes even articles. As soon as VO starts telling the truth, they will stupidly shut it down. So Ryabov plays his useful role.
      1. 0
        20 December 2023 23: 05
        And if you thought a little more, you would understand that there is no need to cut down the truth during the war, it already hurts. Filling the population with negativity is working for enemy propaganda. These are the basics of warfare.
        You can get enough of this kind of “truth” on enemy and liberal resources. You should go there... Here in Russia they were covered (and rightly so).
  14. +7
    17 December 2023 11: 32
    There is too much optimism "on the wave". Both the “Stingers” and “Javas” coped with their task quite well in the initial stages of the SVO - namely, they prevented us from developing, and in some places, probably, carrying out that active throw that we were counting on. The Americans did not saturate the Armed Forces of Ukraine with these means so that their defense would become a stone wall - on the contrary, they were interested in ensuring that as much damage as possible was caused to the Russian Armed Forces precisely in connection with the hopes and desire to take something in a swoop (especially in technology) .
    In general, all these “manual” means serve two main purposes - to force the enemy to use less effective or more expensive methods of influence and so that “their” infantry has the means to counter a completely blatant blitz OR for effective and difficult to detect sabotage actions.

    As for the Leopards, it would probably be more professional to look at the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of such equipment through statistical data indicating the number of its use, the number of hits on the vehicle, crew survival and the percentage of equipment recovered after all this.
    I have been seeing this tortured photo for quite a long time, and here we must understand that the era of the “Tigers” and “KV-2” sunk into oblivion about 80 years ago - not a single tank is invulnerable, it can be immobilized and disabled. Often this is much easier than just making a sieve out of it. In this particular photo, the Leopard does not look like a sieve, unlike the BMPshek. This does not mean that “Leo” cannot be riddled, but it is not worth calling it an ineffective weapon in situations in which our MBTs were also immobilized (and immobilized, by the way) (I very much remember our “Breakthrough” captured by the Ukrainians with its tracks flying off) - it’s not worth it .
    In general, I would recommend slowing down this hurray, we are not near Kiev yet.
    1. Lad
      +5
      17 December 2023 21: 30
      We are not near Kyiv yet.

      Why else? Not yet, but already. The photo of the damaged Leopard has probably already been sweated and sucked a billion times, what a bad tank it is. But how to say that they left Kiev, Chernigov, Sumy, Kharkov, left Kherson - so not a word about it. Because everything is according to the principle of hurray-frenzy you mentioned: the enemy is always doing badly, but we are always doing better than everyone else. These articles are intended for the most primitive people who have neither brains nor memory. This is the conclusion that suggests itself.
      1. 0
        20 December 2023 23: 16
        Quote: Lad
        The photo of the damaged Leopard has probably already been sweated and sucked a billion times, what a bad tank it is.

        This photo was posted to show that “advanced” Western tanks burn no worse than others. It was the Ukrainians who thought that they were invincible and the Russians would run in all directions. But something immediately went wrong...

        Quote: Lad
        But how to say that they left Kiev, Chernigov, Sumy, Kharkov, left Kherson - so not a word about it.

        They talked about this last year. Hello...comrade...
  15. +4
    17 December 2023 13: 16
    Propaganda is good. But in practice, more and more countries are purchasing Western weapons, and less and less ours.

    According to a March 2023 report by the Stockholm Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), France's global arms trade increased to 2018% between 2022 and 11, up from 7,1% in the previous four-year period. Russia's share in the international arms trade decreased from 22 to 16%.

    Partly, of course, the point is that our weapons are now going to the army, but not only that. Let's not forget who controls the world's media. Everywhere outside our country, arms buyers see the exact opposite picture from ours: Russian weapons are rubbish, their tanks are burning in the Ukraine by the thousands, the few Khimars, Javelins and others are taking out the Asian hordes.
    1. 0
      17 December 2023 14: 17
      What does the media have to do with it? The United States prohibits all countries from purchasing weapons from Russia with the threat of sanctions, and with other threats forces them to purchase from themselves, at the same time raising prices significantly
      1. +5
        17 December 2023 14: 47
        If everything was so simple, then why didn’t the United States threaten everyone and force them to buy from themselves and not from the Russians with threats even before the North Military District? The public image of a gun is very important.
        1. +1
          17 December 2023 14: 52
          So they were forced to purchase from themselves long before the Northern Military District; sanctions for purchasing weapons from the Russian Federation were introduced many years ago. And not only weapons, it has long been prohibited to send satellites into space, where there is at least one American bolt, using our rockets, which greatly helped Musk. Also ask the French, for example, how they negotiated a contract for submarines.
          1. 0
            17 December 2023 14: 54
            Well, sanctions also play a role, but not only. The negative image of Russian weapons, promoted by the media - “look, we were afraid of them in vain, the war showed that the weapons of these barbarians are completely worthless” - is also important.

            The reasons for the decline in Russian arms sales are varied. Many of these are related to the conflict in Ukraine, as Russia now sends most of its weapons to the front lines, retains certain types of weapons and weaponry, and places greater emphasis on replacing weapons destroyed in combat. Numerous international sanctions on Russia may also have impacted its military output, undermining its ability to export arms. In addition, information coming from the theater of military operations in Ukraine damages the reputation of Russian weapons.

            The military conflict in Ukraine demonstrated the modest capabilities of Russian military technology, according to University of Denver international relations professor Cullen Hendricks, citing the vulnerability of Russian tanks and the high rate of failed missile launches. In recent years, some customers have become disillusioned with Russian products. For example, India, being the world's largest arms importer, was closely linked to supplies from the Russian Federation. But now she is not satisfied with the technical capabilities of these weapons and she was forced to turn to France for them.
            1. -3
              17 December 2023 15: 22
              Quote: Kmon
              The negative image of Russian weapons, promoted by the media - “look, we were afraid of them in vain, the war showed that the weapons of these barbarians are completely worthless” - is also important

              Arms contracts are long-lasting; what they conclude now will be sold in a few years. Sales have been falling for a long time, but for some reason Chechnya did not interfere much with selling tanks and planes overseas.
              Quote: Kmon
              For example, India, being the world's largest arms importer, was closely linked to supplies from the Russian Federation. But now she is not satisfied with the technical capabilities of these weapons and she was forced to turn to France for them.

              India saw the work of the MiG-35 in Ukraine and decided to take the Rafale? About 10 years ago?
              Quote: Kmon
              high rate of unsuccessful missile launches

              Apparently the professor reads the necessary articles and does not want to be kicked out of the university, repeating what Zelya says.
              1. +2
                18 December 2023 00: 12
                Quote from alexoff
                India saw the work of the MiG-35 in Ukraine and decided to take the Rafale? About 10 years ago?

                It was more about the Su-35. But even 10 years ago, it was obvious to the Indians and not only that the Russian manufacturers of combat aircraft were technologically lagging behind the French or Americans in many important technologies, and if the Russian Federation was not able to equip at least the AFAR radar on the proposed vehicles for India, then what complaints could there be against Americans, French and Indians?? And just this SVO showed that the Indians were right in choosing combat aircraft, since they see all the helplessness of the Russian Aerospace Forces against an enemy who, in fact, does not yet have adequate air forces. What will happen when Ukraine receives several dozen F-16s from Block 52, that is, current vehicles? What if Su-35s get shot down during their operation? And then, when the next Indonesia refuses yet another supply of Russian aircraft, in favor of the same F-16s, will the Americans and their sanctions be to blame again?
                1. -2
                  18 December 2023 00: 22
                  Quote: karabas-barabas
                  And just this SVO showed that the Indians were right in choosing combat aircraft, since they see all the helplessness of the Russian Aerospace Forces against an enemy who, in fact, does not yet have adequate air forces.

                  Will Rafales break through air defense?
                  Quote: karabas-barabas
                  What will happen when Ukraine receives several dozen F-16s from Block 52, that is, current vehicles? What if Su-35s get shot down during their operation?

                  And if the F16s go astray, will the Indians and Indonesians ignore American laws? Otherwise, they complained that because of the Americans, the existing ones could not be repaired.
                  1. -2
                    18 December 2023 02: 13
                    Quote from alexoff
                    Will Rafales break through air defense?

                    Rafales, F-16s and the like with AFAR can work equally well both on the ground and above the ground against helicopters, missiles, and the same Shaheds. AFAR is simply the next development of radar, which increases the capabilities of the aircraft. For example, medium-radius air defense of the Buka type can be opened by AFAR outside the radius of these air defenses and destroyed accordingly quickly.
                    Quote from alexoff
                    And if the F16s go astray, will the Indians and Indonesians ignore American laws?

                    The F-16 has already proven itself in combat and therefore has a reputation as one of the best. But this is, of course, a complex system; in order to use its full potential, it takes a lot of time and exercises, and it is quite possible that the Ukrainian Armed Forces will lose these aircraft. I don’t know whether third countries will draw any conclusions because of this, but the Russian Federation now, for various reasons, cannot compete with the Americans and Europeans for the combat aircraft market.
                    1. -3
                      18 December 2023 02: 39
                      Quote: karabas-barabas
                      Rafales, F-16s and the like with AFAR can work equally well both on the ground and above the ground against helicopters, missiles, and the same Shaheds. AFAR is simply the next development of radar, which increases the capabilities of the aircraft. For example, medium-radius air defense of the Buka type can be opened by AFAR outside the radius of these air defenses and destroyed accordingly quickly.

                      You don’t seem to care about radar, just as you don’t care about military operations in general. We read something about AFAR that it’s some kind of imbecile and overpowering, other radars are not protected, and you probably also have an imbecile and cannot be countered, with which the Americans could not even get into the patriot’s radar
                      Quote: karabas-barabas
                      The F-16 has already proven itself in combat and therefore has a reputation as one of the best.

                      In what? Drive Bedouins through the desert?
                      Quote: karabas-barabas
                      I don’t know whether third countries will draw any conclusions because of this, but the Russian Federation now, for various reasons, cannot compete with the Americans and Europeans for the combat aircraft market.

                      Of course, they won’t draw conclusions from the losses of the F16, they have AFAR, they fought well, they can’t counter it. They will line up like for a trophy, which costs a penny and is placed on leopards and abrams, there are a lot of videos of how rockets and grenades are knocked down. What country are you writing from?
                      1. 0
                        6 January 2024 02: 23
                        Quote from alexoff
                        You don’t seem to care about radar, just as you don’t care about military operations in general.

                        Most likely, having a specialized education and even service experience, although the basic knowledge comes from many years of interest in the topic, I still not only understand something, but can participate in production. Yes, I’ve seen a lot of chatter about “different radars” “ROFARs” and other prodigy radars. But things are still there. The difference between the Su-35 PFAR and the AFAR of current NATO aircraft is like the difference between the 2007 Sony-Erickson and the 2014 iPhone, or what other analogy you can give, this is just another level, the next one, to which the Russian Federation will eventually move. Since it is such a radar and electronic warfare, and yes, it sees everywhere well and has a wider azimuth. I don’t quite understand what you don’t like about the development of radar? In general, I didn’t really understand the rest of what you wrote, gather your thoughts, what kind of imbas.
                      2. 0
                        6 January 2024 02: 33
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        The difference between the PFAR Su-35 and the AFAR of current NATO aircraft is like the difference between the Sony-Erickson 2007 and the iPhone 2014

                        Apparently you have experience flying both?
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        In general, I didn’t really understand the rest of what you wrote.

                        This is actually a tradition for you, try to think about it
                  2. +1
                    18 December 2023 23: 05
                    Quote from alexoff
                    Will Rafales break through air defense?

                    What will stop them? The Crimean exercises have already shown that even the S-400 can be carried out without losses to the attackers by competently launching Scalps.
                    1. -1
                      18 December 2023 23: 11
                      Did they break through the air defense in Crimea? Looks like one launcher. Or is this some kind of achievement, you spent a bunch of missiles and drones, hit once, check the box and that’s it, victory? And there are no losses for the attackers, everything is intact in Starokonstantinov? And if there are Rafales standing there and it flies at them, will it not count? Or can the removal of a bunch of S300s and a Kyiv Patriot be considered a guarantee of an air defense breakthrough all the way to Lisbon? In general, there were exercises with lancets, without any aircraft with zero losses.
                      1. +1
                        18 December 2023 23: 23
                        Quote from alexoff
                        Did they break through the air defense in Crimea?

                        In Crimea they broke through the air defense as many times as they wanted. After all, air defense should not protect itself (and even this failed at least once, and there was more than one launcher), but also protect the objects being covered. And with this there is complete slag - the S-400 itself, the fleet headquarters, the submarine and the large landing craft, last year's airfield. Moreover, trusting our reports on the percentage of those shot down (when they reported about one “Scalp” that broke through, and the next day they posted a video of at least the second strike) is a personal matter for everyone.
                      2. -1
                        18 December 2023 23: 51
                        How many times did you want to? Judging by the statistics, they only want it a few times a year. Judging by the footage, they installed about 15 scalpels, but none were knocked down; when necessary, they break through.
                        Does it work the other way? Does the guy launching geraniums at Starokonstantinov also break through the air defense? By the way, there are patriots there, Zelya showed them there
                      3. +1
                        19 December 2023 00: 02
                        Quote from alexoff
                        Does the guy launching geraniums at Starokonstantinov also break through the air defense?

                        So what? If at least one Geranium out of 50 hits the target, it will be justified. Otherwise they would have stopped running a long time ago. You can break through air defense not only with quality, but also with quantity.
            2. +2
              17 December 2023 23: 59
              Quote: Kmon
              The military conflict in Ukraine demonstrated the modest capabilities of Russian military technology, according to University of Denver international relations professor Cullen Hendricks, citing the vulnerability of Russian tanks and the high rate of failed missile launches.

              This "military expert" is a political scientist, as usual.

              Everything is simpler for specialists. The Russian military-industrial complex is under sanctions, and this is apparently forever. There will be no access to modern technologies, except for all sorts of scratches. This means that there are also no opportunities to modernize Russian weapons. At the same time, for countries that have problems with the West, there is already China - there is no need to attract unnecessary attention to themselves by getting involved with the Russian Federation. It's like trading arms with the DPRK.

              There was a market, so to speak, for second-hand goods, for servicing all sorts of recyclable materials, but a considerable part of this recyclable material was burned in the SVO.

              The Soviet period of international arms trade is finally over. The Russian Federation has nothing to offer.
              1. -4
                18 December 2023 00: 24
                Why then was Israel angry about arms for Iran?
                Quote: Negro
                At the same time, for countries that have problems with the West, there is already China - there is no need to attract unnecessary attention to yourself by getting involved with the Russian Federation

                What countries are these, for example? Do they exist today or is this a hypothesis?
                1. +2
                  18 December 2023 01: 26
                  Quote from alexoff
                  Why then was Israel angry about arms for Iran?

                  Why would he be silent?
                  Quote from alexoff
                  Do they exist today or is this a hypothesis?

                  More like thoughts on the topic. If we limit ourselves to facts, the top 3 importers of Russian weapons over the last decade are India, China and Egypt. For all three, volumes are falling and the forecast is extremely negative, each for its own reasons.
                  1. -3
                    18 December 2023 01: 29
                    Quote: Negro
                    Why would he be silent?

                    for example, because Israel will beat all this with its F35, and Iran will simply waste resources.
                    Quote: Negro
                    If we limit ourselves to facts, the top 3 importers of Russian weapons over the last decade are India, China and Egypt. For all three, volumes are falling and the forecast is extremely negative, each for its own reasons.

                    Yes, that seems to be the reason for the law on secondary sanctions regarding India and Egypt, the PRC is trying its own with varying degrees of success.
                    1. +3
                      18 December 2023 06: 50
                      Quote from alexoff
                      for example, because Israel will beat all this with its F35, and Iran will simply waste resources.

                      Well, the F-35 will have to chase airplanes instead of bombing.

                      Quote from alexoff
                      the law on secondary sanctions regarding India and Egypt, China is trying its own with varying success.

                      China is import substituting, India is less and less willing to accept the second grade, Egypt is facing sanctions.
                      1. -2
                        18 December 2023 15: 18
                        Quote: Negro
                        Well, the F-35 will have to chase airplanes instead of bombing.

                        Because of this, are they worried that they will successfully use the fighter for its intended purpose? Is that what they told you?
                        Quote: Negro
                        India is increasingly less willing to accept second class status

                        Or maybe India is buying less and less? Or because supplies to Pakistan upset the Indians?
          2. 0
            18 December 2023 00: 02
            Quote from alexoff
            sanctions for purchases of weapons from the Russian Federation were introduced many years ago

            Can you tell us more about “sanctions for the purchase of Russian weapons many years ago before the SVO”? The Russian Federation even participated in tenders for the supply of armored vehicles and aircraft to NATO and Western countries, not to mention the rest of the world, which doesn’t care about American bans. It’s better to look at the results of the tenders, then it may become more clear why the Russian military-industrial complex was gradually losing sales markets. How Musk was helped by sanctions turns out to be completely ridiculous.
            1. -2
              18 December 2023 00: 18
              Quote: karabas-barabas
              Can you tell us more about “sanctions for the purchase of Russian weapons many years ago before the SVO”?

              Sanctions were introduced against the Instrument Engineering Design Bureau and Tochmash in 1998. The State Department introduced sanctions against Sukhoi and Rosoboronexport in 2006 and expanded them in 2011. In 2014 against Kalashnikov. For Russia's use of "chemical weapons in violation of international law... and against its own citizens," on August 27, 2018, a ban was introduced on the sale of weapons, the export of dual-use goods and technologies, electronics and components for the oil and gas industry. The reason for the sanctions was the accusation brought by Great Britain against Russia for the poisoning of ex-GRU Colonel Sergei Skripal in Salisbury, British on March 4, 2018. In 2018, the United States introduced secondary sanctions under the CAATSA law, imposing restrictions such as asset freezes on those who deal with objectionable companies and individuals. Should I continue? Are you sure you can argue with me? I have a good memory and I know how to use Google.
              1. +1
                18 December 2023 02: 20
                Quote from alexoff
                Should I continue? Are you sure you can argue with me? I have a good memory and I know how to use Google.

                Where is the talk about sanctions against those who decided to buy Russian equipment? What sanctions prevented the purchase of Russian combat aircraft before 2014? Moreover, when did the Russian Federation participate in tenders? What sanctions forced India to choose the Rafale over the Su-30 or Su-35?
                Quote from alexoff
                Sanctions were introduced against the Instrument Engineering Design Bureau and Tochmash in 1998.

                Can you tell me more about this? What is the "Instrument Engineering Design Bureau"?
                1. -2
                  18 December 2023 02: 30
                  Quote: karabas-barabas
                  Where is the talk about sanctions against those who decided to buy Russian equipment?

                  It's called CAATSA, but now the sanctions are simply for currency transfers.
                  Quote: karabas-barabas
                  What is the "Instrument Engineering Design Bureau"?

                  That is, you are not involved in the military-industrial complex at all?
                  Quote: karabas-barabas
                  What sanctions forced India to choose the Rafale over the Su-30 or Su-35?

                  Well, that is, don’t fumble that the tender was for light fighters?
                  1. +1
                    18 December 2023 17: 23
                    That is, you are not involved in the military-industrial complex at all?

                    Merged? Will there be proof of the sanctions that prevented the purchase of Russian weapons until 2014?
                    1. -2
                      18 December 2023 18: 31
                      I gave examples of sanctions, which by the way happened before 2014? What country are you writing from?
  16. +3
    17 December 2023 13: 19
    Further more. They have a considerable stock of all sorts of rubbish. For example, the German army has mines with remote detonation. Under the noise of artillery shelling, they bombard positions or something else, and then, at an opportune moment, they explode all at once. It's a heavy thing.
    The bravado here is incomprehensible to me - they say send it.
  17. -9
    17 December 2023 13: 32
    I would, of course, like to get details about why the Javelins, for example, did not “fire”... I believe that detailed disassemblies are ahead. But the fact that the main thing on the battlefield is the courage and skill of the Russian soldier - no one will argue with this... With that, we will win.
  18. Uno
    +3
    17 December 2023 13: 33
    Well, the work of the same Javelin can be seen in the latest videos from near Senkovka
  19. -6
    17 December 2023 14: 12
    A good, high-quality weapon in the hands of an untrained soldier with commanders has practically no chance of success. Single-person wars, with the exception of Hollywood, have long outlived their usefulness... And Putin’s positional special operation threatens our defeat... Time will pass and the West and the United States will begin to produce weapons in quantities , many times greater than our capabilities... We destroy Western rubbish and kill Russians... and what is there to be happy about... That means there will be an agreement-betrayal...
  20. -5
    17 December 2023 14: 16
    The author inattentively followed the child prodigies. Where are the anti-radar defenses that supposedly were supposed to knock out all Russian air defenses, but there is numerous evidence of them hitting high-rise buildings, fields, flowerbeds, but not hitting radars.
    Where are the switchblades, the incredibly cool drones? Where is the Western air defense, which seems to work well only against geraniums in the line of sight? Where are the mega-cool homing Brimstone missiles?
    1. +1
      17 December 2023 21: 06
      Quote from alexoff
      Where are the switchblades, the incredibly cool drones? Where is the Western air defense, which seems to work well only against geraniums in the line of sight? Where are the mega-cool homing Brimstone missiles?

      The air defense has been supplied with 2 batteries, it seems, they are covering Kyiv. Cruise missiles are also supplied in a certain quantity. The West has its own calculations - they need to not offend the Russians too much and test the missiles and support Ukraine. As for drones, there are stories from people there, there are a lot of drones .Recently a correspondent was killed. So not everything is so optimistic
      1. -5
        17 December 2023 21: 18
        We are talking about specifics here, many drones are cheap Chinese units. We saw how Kyiv was covered, we saw how lancets flew into Western air defense systems. I didn’t write anything about cruise missiles.
        1. 0
          17 December 2023 21: 39
          Quote from alexoff
          I didn’t write anything about cruise missiles.

          Storm Shadow
          1. -4
            17 December 2023 23: 32
            Did I write something about them? Have you read the article? Did you read my comment? Or did you just want to talk?
            1. 0
              18 December 2023 09: 13
              Quote from alexoff
              Did I write something about them? Have you read the article? Did you read my comment? Or did you just want to talk?

              Roughly speaking, you wrote that this doesn’t exist and that doesn’t exist. I answered you. What’s the problem? Don’t like someone else’s point of view?
              1. -3
                18 December 2023 15: 21
                To put it bluntly, I wrote that the specific products advertised by the wunderwaffe did not show any results. What's your point? That cruise missiles costing several million dollars each hit somewhere several times?
                1. +3
                  18 December 2023 18: 32
                  Quote from alexoff
                  That cruise missiles costing several million dollars each hit somewhere several times?

                  In order to assess the effectiveness, you need to know how many missiles were delivered, where they hit and how many were shot down. For Ukraine, these missiles are free. Our missiles cost us a considerable amount. A year of using Geraniums and Calibers did not paralyze the Ukrainian economy at all. In addition, the West evaluates effectiveness of the use of weapons and will make adjustments
                  1. -3
                    18 December 2023 18: 36
                    Can you explain why your most important weapon is cruise missiles, which have not been used for a couple of months? You have a personal pain and you decided to write to me that since Brimstone is bullshit, then this is all nonsense, so the missiles that hit the bridge near Crimea are a victory, even though the bridge was repaired a long time ago? What are you trying to convince me of?
                    1. 0
                      18 December 2023 18: 46
                      Quote from alexoff
                      Can you explain why your most important weapon is cruise missiles, which have not been used for a couple of months? You have a personal pain and you decided to write to me that since Brimstone is bullshit, then this is all nonsense, so the missiles that hit the bridge near Crimea are a victory, even though the bridge was repaired a long time ago? What are you trying to convince me of?

                      Let's calmly return to the roots. I wrote that a limited number of air defense systems and missiles have been supplied. And that the Ukrainians have no shortage of drones. You keep telling me where they are, where they are. The air defense is covering Kiev. The Kyrgyz Republic has probably been used up. There will be new supplies, there will be Taurus and NASAMS. There will be no supplies, there will be no missiles. For example, I would supply both missiles and air defense instead of tanks. By the way, can you guarantee that next time missiles will not fly across the bridge again?
                      1. -3
                        18 December 2023 19: 17
                        Let's calmly return to the title of the topic and my comment. Wunderwaffe, who did not live up to the hopes of the Kyiv regime. The author gave several samples, I recalled several prodigies that were supposed to bring victory, but the results of their work do not exist. To which you decided to object to me that cruise missiles. Do cruise missiles make Brimstone good? Do cruise missiles make harm effective? Do cruise missiles make switchblade effective?
                        Quote from Kartograph
                        You tell me where they are, where they are.

                        Quote me the place where I wrote this
                        Quote from Kartograph
                        By the way, can you guarantee that next time missiles will not fly across the bridge again?

                        If they arrive, will Harm be a good rocket? And if the topic discusses tanks, will you also write to everyone that cruise missiles and air defense?
                      2. 0
                        19 December 2023 07: 57
                        Quote from alexoff
                        Let's calmly return to the title of the topic and my comment. Wunderwaffe, who did not live up to the hopes of the Kyiv regime. The author gave several samples, I recalled several prodigies that were supposed to bring victory, but the results of their work do not exist. To which you decided to object to me that cruise missiles. Do cruise missiles make Brimstone good? Do cruise missiles make harm effective? Do cruise missiles make switchblade effective?
                        Quote from Kartograph
                        You tell me where they are, where they are.

                        Quote me the place where I wrote this
                        Quote from Kartograph
                        By the way, can you guarantee that next time missiles will not fly across the bridge again?

                        If they arrive, will Harm be a good rocket? And if the topic discusses tanks, will you also write to everyone that cruise missiles and air defense?

                        Namely, the title of the topic implies more than one type of weapon and I decided to remind you about air defense and missile defense. And the fact that they are ineffective, according to the author, is explained by their small number (air defense and missile defense). But we came to the conclusion that Javelins and Stingers have their own They fulfill their role. The fact that they are expensive does not sadden America much, because it can print a lot of dollars
                      3. 0
                        19 December 2023 08: 09
                        Quote from alexoff

                        Quote me the place where I wrote this


                        Quote from alexoff
                        Where is the Western air defense, which seems to work well only against geraniums in the line of sight? Where are the mega-cool homing Brimstone missiles?
                      4. 0
                        19 December 2023 08: 09
                        Quote from alexoff

                        Quote me the place where I wrote this


                        Quote from alexoff
                        Where is the Western air defense, which seems to work well only against geraniums in the line of sight? Where are the mega-cool homing Brimstone missiles?
    2. +1
      17 December 2023 22: 02
      We will find out about statistics on harms (if we find out) much later - now it is a military secret classified
      1. -3
        18 December 2023 15: 22
        Maybe it's zero? Well, from a satellite our partners showed a destroyed air defense system, and next to it a piece of harm. But there is no such thing.
  21. -3
    17 December 2023 17: 34
    How did the “castrati” get such articles? Everything that was delivered to the Armed Forces of Ukraine does not matter, we will grind it into dust. Wake up and read, or better yet, communicate with the participants from the front. And you will discover for yourself a military secret: any weapon is death. And shout that “ Leo "doesn't necessarily suck. We held back these cats all summer and survived. But this is not a matter of "Leo" or T-90. Soldiers, soldiers, officers, personnel broke the offensive of the Ukrainian fascists. The fighting people did the job, but technology decides a lot , but it is preparation (based on combat experience and mistakes) that gives such a result, and that is why the Ukrainian Armed Forces will not be helped by either the Patriot or the F-16.
  22. +6
    17 December 2023 19: 46
    Some kind of crap article. Javelins stopped our tank armies, stringers switched Russian aviation to pitch-up mode, UFABs appeared only a year and a half after the start of the campaign, and axes, coupled with nettles, significantly increased our losses. Our loss of the first and second phases of the operation is the result of the use of these weapons. Not a bad result.
  23. +2
    17 December 2023 22: 00
    captivating article ((MANPADS do not give air superiority, anti-tank missiles have led to the fact that the tank claws that were once planned to be seen 2 weeks before the English Channel, three axes are essentially an ordinary gun, but the presence of artillery leads to the fact that the artillery of the RF Armed Forces works briefly with small strikes and quick escape - underestimating the enemy is costly
  24. The comment was deleted.
  25. +1
    18 December 2023 23: 12
    He named the word, but did not name a single letter. The final conclusion is correct, but the premises are not correct. Ukraine will lose (even if not Kyiv in three days, but by the end of 2024 we will see the result), but not because Western weapons are bad, but because Ukraine is not given them in the required quantities (and they are not given them consciously and intentionally).
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. The comment was deleted.
  28. 0
    25 March 2024 07: 01
    In “queue for humiliation” - not a very good expression - within the framework of the SVO, it is more suitable for assessing the actions of generals