Hybrid armored vehicles go to war without Russia

109
Hybrid armored vehicles go to war without Russia
M1126 Stryker DVHA1


Serial or parallel?


Technically, there is nothing new in the hybrid drive - the first prototypes were built by Ferdinand Porsche back in 1900. His Lohner-Porsche had all the elements inherent in modern hybrids - an internal combustion engine, a generator, batteries and electric motors. More precisely, even motor-wheels. The design was distinguished by its large mass, complexity and low reliability, which predetermined its unhappy future.



For several decades, hybrid circuits disappeared from the radar of automotive engineers. Nevertheless, hybrids had some advantages that cannot be kept silent about. First of all, it is cost-effective.

On the one hand, fuel consumption can be reduced by operating the internal combustion engine without jerks and at the most optimal speeds.

On the other hand, it is possible to move part of the route exclusively on electric power with the engine turned off. Due to the higher overall efficiency of the hybrid drive, the motors are installed with slightly lower power – on average by 25–30 percent, which has a positive effect on fuel consumption.


Hybrid Lohner-Porsche

The simplest hybrid in design can be called a sequential circuit, when the engine drives the generator rotor, which in turn supplies energy to the electric motors. The presence of rechargeable batteries in the circuit is mandatory, allowing, if necessary, to turn off the internal combustion engine and move exclusively on electric power.

There were also some specific disadvantages. Due to the long path of hydrocarbon energy conversion, the efficiency of the sequential circuit is not the highest. As the theory says: “The efficiency of a system of series-connected mechanisms is always lower than the worst of the mechanisms of this system.”




When nodes are connected in parallel, the efficiency occupies some intermediate value in relation to the efficiency of individual nodes. In such schemes, the internal combustion engine is usually directly connected to the drive wheels, but an electric motor-generator intervenes. They either take part of the energy during regenerative braking and store it in batteries, or release it from them at moments of peak consumption, for example during acceleration.

The parallel circuit is often found on cars and trucks - modern technologies make it possible to create reliable and unpretentious units. They especially love this in Japan. Recently, even minicars on the islands are equipped with hybrid drives, which only twenty years ago seemed unprofitable and fantastic.

Automotive analysts consider hybrid circuits an intermediate link to a happy electric vehicle future. But this is completely different story.

Hybrids at war


Hybrid technologies have been used in current and future armored vehicles for a long time, but have not yet found widespread use. At the same time, “hybrids” have specific advantages in war. For example, the ability to move exclusively on electric power significantly reduces noise from movement. Especially for wheeled vehicles.

It is important to understand the significant disadvantages that a hybrid power plant brings with it to armored vehicles. In addition to a noticeable increase in the final cost of the combat vehicle, builders have to look for considerable amounts of reserved space to accommodate batteries. This can be partially compensated by the absence of a rather large hydromechanical transmission and drive shafts to the wheels.

Modern lithium-ion batteries on armored vehicles are an extra source of fire that is not easy to put out. It only takes a few bullets or shrapnel to set the battery pack on fire. Frosts can also negate all the advantages of a hybrid circuit - self-discharge of batteries in the cold is familiar to all users of wearable gadgets.

But you can compensate for the last drawback by slightly complicating the design. For example, installing a battery heating circuit from the engine cooling system. By the way, this will add efficiency to the entire installation - heat will be spent more efficiently.

Despite the disadvantages described above, the hybrid scheme is attracting more and more attention from the military.

From the latter, the Americans are trying to integrate a hybrid drive into their base M1126 Stryker DVHA1. Among the bonuses are reduced fuel consumption, and with it an increase in power reserve. The exact parameters are not given, but reports on the Russian Krymsk platform are suitable for comparison.


Domestic hybrid “Krymsk”

About ten years ago, engineers from the Military Industrial Company experimented with a hybrid armored personnel carrier based on the BTR-90. The car was built according to all the canons on a domestic element base using a sequential circuit.

Tests and theoretical calculations have shown that the dynamics of armored vehicles and tanks-hybrids will increase by 20–35 percent, average speed by 5 percent, and range by 15–22 percent. It was pointless to talk about the effectiveness of the Krymsk’s silent mode of operation - the car traveled on electric power for no more than 500 meters.

Domestic engineers have calculated that “if plans are successfully implemented, parallel-type hybrid power plants should be recommended for use on promising and modernized equipment developed after 2020, and sequential type after 2025.” That is, the classic scheme of serial connection of an engine and an electric motor is considered the most promising.

It looks like a fly in the ointment to state a fact that was true both ten years ago and now - the production of domestic signal microcircuits, high-current high-frequency semiconductor devices, small-sized film capacitors and driver devices remains problematic.

We also worked on hybrid power plants at the St. Petersburg VNIITransmash. Moreover, a tracked vehicle weighing 54 tons and a maximum speed of 75 km/h was considered immediately with products for tanks - the carrier of the units. Considering that open information dates back to 2015, there is every reason to assume that Armata could become a hybrid.

However, the level of competence and management of that time is evidenced by the “successes” with the attempt to replace the Belarusian MZKT with the KamAZ-7850 rocket carrier, better known as “Platform-O”. Engineers used a sequential hybrid drive scheme with motor-wheels. It turned out spectacularly, but the events did not come out of the experimental work.


Hybrid StrykerQB

Meanwhile, modern trends set new requirements for hybrid systems on military equipment.

If we remember about the American Sryker, then one of the motives was the high energy consumption on board the armored vehicle. The armored car must now be able to “generate, store and distribute energy to external assets.” The Americans are hinting that without a hybrid drive it will not be possible to install laser installations and active protection systems.

The completely different role of hybrids in the wars of the future becomes obvious - now it is not so much a means of reducing fuel consumption, but also providing power to a wide arsenal on board. It is very desirable that you can use all the functionality even when the internal combustion engine is switched off.

Controversial, but valid, is the thesis about the sufficiency of the auxiliary power unit to power the attached equipment of the tank and other armored vehicles. They say that all the complexities of a hybrid power plant can be compensated for by one diesel generator suspended above the rear left drive sprocket - this is how it is implemented on the T-90MS.

For the existing needs of the tank, such a scheme is quite sufficient, but we are talking about promising technologies, the energy requirements of which will be many times greater than modern ones. In addition, the beauty of a hybrid is that it can provide energy to consumers while parked, and in the event of a big rush, add a few percent of power and take the combat vehicle away from trouble.

But let's return to Stryker, a tender for the development of a hybrid drive for which has already been announced. An ideological prototype for future development can be considered the unmanned and hybrid StrykerQB, first presented by General Dynamics at the AUSA 2023 exhibition. But this is still only an expensive toy, and the military needs a diesel-electric armored car that is maximally adapted to modern realities. At the previous AUSA 2022, the Americans rolled out the StrykerX also with a hybrid power plant.


A modern combat vehicle is filled with an increasing number of energy consumers, many of which simply do not have enough electricity. A hybrid powertrain can help solve this promising problem.

Plans for the hybridization and electrification of the American armored vehicle fleet look interesting and quite controversial. Thus, hybrids will become commonplace within ten years, and by 2050, tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers will switch to full electric propulsion and completely abandon fuel. In this way, Americans not only improve their technology, but also fight global warming.

Let's leave the toxic exhausts of tanks to the Americans and think about what the Russian military-industrial complex will bring to a hypothetical war of the future? In application to hybrid technologies, of course.

Nothing - there is currently no information about the development of hybrid circuits.

Today is not a very convenient time for this, frankly speaking, but even before the special operation, apart from the hybrid “Krymsk” and “Platform-O”, the domestic military-industrial complex was not pleased with anything. That is, there are no developments on individual units and even technology demonstrators.

Of course, a total transition to hybrid drives will not become a strategic advantage at the front, but such technology is necessary for the development of strike potential. At least for power supply to those very promising consumers - active protection systems, directed energy technologies, electronic warfare and communications.

Military equipment will inevitably become increasingly energy-intensive, and without hybrid circuits it will not be easy to cope with network congestion.
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109 comments
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  1. +3
    16 December 2023 03: 48
    the old man watches the RPG and is sad...nothing new...and the children (drones) laugh.
  2. +7
    16 December 2023 04: 02
    Questions for the author - how much does a very high-quality and modern Tesla battery weigh? How much does the Tesla itself weigh? If you buy gasoline of the same weight as the battery, how far will a regular gasoline car go?
    1. +8
      16 December 2023 05: 39
      You've lumped electric cars and hybrids together. And the battery is a reusable thing, unlike 500 liters of fuel. Well, at least they didn’t tell you to buy an amount of gasoline equivalent to the cost of the battery) Here the hybrid will immediately lose, but the devil is in the details
      1. +10
        16 December 2023 06: 54
        And the battery is a reusable thing, unlike 500 liters of fuel.

        It becomes especially reusable if it is charged with electricity from a Gretythunberg socket, in which electricity is generated by itself, only with the thought of PR-chics of green energy.
        1. -7
          16 December 2023 12: 18
          Quote: Amateur
          And the battery is a reusable thing, unlike 500 liters of fuel.

          It becomes especially reusable if it is charged with electricity from a Gretythunberg socket, in which electricity is generated by itself, only with the thought of PR-chics of green energy.

          This dark denial of technology looks so ridiculous. The battery in a hybrid is charged from the same fuel that you put into the tank, if that. In fully electric vehicles, from electricity obtained from (sometimes relatively) clean energy sources. In any case, this is better than suffocating in cities from smog.
          1. +9
            16 December 2023 21: 23
            There are no clean energy sources. Get over it already. If you are not choking on smog, due to batteries, then somewhere on earth in one place nature turns into a lunar landscape, and in another place into a waste storage facility. And in between there are still factories that also do not smoke oxygen.
            1. -6
              17 December 2023 12: 05
              With this logic, it’s worth thinking about whether nuclear power plants are less harmful to the environment
              1. 0
                17 December 2023 12: 14
                Do you have any doubts about this?
                1. -1
                  17 December 2023 12: 27
                  I’m not an expert, but I’ve heard about this and judging by Chernobyl, it’s such a compromise, I just pointed out that the comment above says that everything is bad, everything is gone, but there is no answer on how to do it better, so I kind of suggested finishing the thought proposed above on a more positive note, in general I wanted would be a harmless option for nature, but today the efficiency of such sources is not very good, although if they were introduced en masse...
            2. 0
              9 March 2024 00: 52
              Quote: sifgame
              If you are not choking on smog, due to batteries, then somewhere on earth in one place nature turns into a lunar landscape, and in another place into a waste storage facility. And in between there are still factories that also do not smoke oxygen.

              And Borrell has already explained to us all that “Heaven on Earth” is possible only in Europe, and all around is the Jungle (13 districts)
          2. +3
            17 December 2023 04: 08
            Exhaust is 10...20% of transport pollution. Tire wear products weigh more.
      2. +1
        16 December 2023 16: 46
        Hybrid doesn't have a battery? Or is it smaller in size?
      3. 0
        16 December 2023 21: 29
        Quote: Letterhead
        but the devil is in the details

        The main “devil” is the Russian winter and off-road conditions. Then it will be as always. Kamikaze drones have great prospects. He crawled up and jumped out at the right moment... and that’s it. Or he fired several shots and left along the trench to another position.
      4. bar
        +3
        17 December 2023 08: 16
        Quote: Letterhead
        And the battery is a reusable thing, unlike 500 liters of fuel.

        In combat conditions, a battery is as disposable as a tank of gasoline. But many times more expensive.
    2. -2
      16 December 2023 12: 16
      Questions for you: what are these questions for? We are talking about hybrid products, hello.
    3. +4
      16 December 2023 12: 23
      In this case, it makes sense to talk about the weight/volume output of batteries and compare it with a gas tank.
      In my opinion, now the most modern batteries provide 5-10% of gasoline. Well, taking into account the greater efficiency of electric propulsion, we can talk about 10-15%. The experts will correct me. And keep in mind that the tank can be given a complex shape for more complete use of the internal volume of the equipment.
      As for the charging/refueling speed, the fuel here is unrivaled. Well, I don’t see a technology that allows you to charge batteries at the speed of refilling with a hose. Replacing batteries? For civilians it’s still possible, for military equipment it’s nonsense.
      1. +2
        16 December 2023 16: 51
        Quote: Not the fighter
        In my opinion, now the most modern batteries provide 5-10% of gasoline. Well, taking into account the greater efficiency of electric propulsion, we can talk about 10-15%.

        Everyone is always comparing ultra-modern batteries and engines manufactured 30 years ago. Conventional engines are also becoming more economical.
        Batteries for propulsion in technology are a tribute to fashion, nothing more. They would have offered to put it on a cruiser or on a fighter. And hydrogen as a fuel. Well, so that journalists would praise it and the producers’ shares would rise on the stock exchange.
        1. 0
          16 December 2023 19: 27
          If my memory serves me correctly, the efficiency of the electric motor is 95%, there are losses only due to friction and ohmic resistance of the windings. But the internal combustion engine, oddly enough, requires cooling, and the heat leaves with the exhaust. I still believe in 30-40% efficiency of internal combustion engines, but I’m unlikely to do more. And there is no need to talk about the record results obtained at the stand.
          1. +4
            16 December 2023 21: 49
            Is the electric motor powered from an outlet? What losses will the generator, the battery charging system, and the battery itself have? By the way, if the battery starts producing kilowatts of electricity to move armored vehicles, it won’t need cooling? It's normal for a mobile phone to heat up if you watch movies from it. If the battery gives out a charge in half an hour, then how will it fare? The battery also weighs a lot (how much does a Tesla have, half a ton for a hundred kWh? This is the equivalent of 10 liters of oil), its energy intensity is low compared to any fuel, and you still have to transport it.
            1. 0
              17 December 2023 23: 03
              What losses will the generator, the battery charging system, and the battery itself have?
              5% is easy and it seems like the same Prius gave out that much. But here we understand that we are not talking about the domestic element base. Not every domestic generator can operate with such low losses. Moreover, part of these losses will be of a mechanical nature. The stator frame is crooked, the shaft needs better, clumsy balancing of the shaft-rotor system, bearings that barely rotate and some seals. Just look at how it is done on shunting diesel locomotives.

              How much does Tesla have, half a ton
              With all the crap in the form of a battery and additional devices for its operation (cooling, heating, control, charging), it comes out to about a ton. Therefore, the Tesla itself weighs two tons.
              1. 0
                17 December 2023 23: 40
                Quote from barbos
                5% is easy and it seems like the same Prius gave out that much.

                What did it give out? Burned 10 liters of gasoline and charged the battery at 90 kWh?
                Quote from barbos
                But here we understand that we are not talking about the domestic element base.

                in short, to save on transmissions you need high technology, high-quality workmanship, and so that environmentalists rejoice and the plant’s shares rise on the New York Stock Exchange
                Quote from barbos
                With all the crap in the form of a battery and additional devices for its operation (cooling, heating, control, charging), it comes out to about a ton. Therefore, the Tesla itself weighs two tons.

                And how many batteries do you need to cram into an armored personnel carrier? Or the same battery from a Tesla, only to travel 5 kilometers more?
                1. +2
                  17 December 2023 23: 57
                  What betrayed?
                  Let me remind you that we were talking about the percentage of losses in the generator-charger system. I confirm that in modern realities different from domestic implementation anyhow, achievable in practice.

                  And how many batteries do you need to cram into an armored personnel carrier?
                  For what? Why shove something somewhere? Why write things out of thin air about Tesla batteries? For that matter, our armored personnel carriers (absolutely all) have as many problems with anti-fragmentation and bulletproof armor as they do with mine protection and an ancient power plant. At the same time, armored personnel carrier manufacturers do not yet know about drones. So let's stop thinking about any Tesla batteries at all.
                  Our industry, even the military one, is simply not ready to produce good small-sized generators. For examples, look at what is happening on the gas generator market.
                  In general, it is better to start all these reviews and comparisons of hybrid power plants with a review of the gasoline generator market. What do we have there? Are there many domestic samples? Those that have a domestic engine, a domestic generator, domestic power electronics and good unpaid reviews. A lot of those? Then move on to diesel generators and go crazy there too.
                  1. 0
                    18 December 2023 00: 41
                    Quote from barbos
                    Let me remind you that we were talking about the percentage of losses in the generator-charger system. I confirm that in modern realities, different from domestic execution, anyhow, is achievable in practice.

                    I'm better off with numbers, not about Russian realities
                    Quote from barbos
                    For what? Why shove something somewhere? Why write things out of thin air about Tesla batteries? For that matter, our armored personnel carriers (absolutely all) have as many problems with anti-fragmentation and bulletproof armor as they do with mine protection and an ancient power plant.

                    That's what we're talking about. These entertainments, even over the hill, are needed more for cutting and PR, since there are a lot of problems (even stupid ones - is it possible to preserve the equipment for six months or a year, nothing will die there), but there is little sense. I understand that someone would invent a force field, like in the movies, that would have to be activated at the right time, but no. But in our realities, this is rather a proposal for cutting up already few resources for something of little use.
                    1. 0
                      23 December 2023 01: 07
                      I'm better off with numbers, not about Russian realities
                      Well, here are the numbers: in a modern generator-charger system for a battery, a loss value of 5% (five percent) is achievable. 3% (three percent) on the generator and 2% (two percent) on the charger.
                      For a better understanding, an example from life: many armchair experts have desktop computers, some of them are quite powerful, so that complex scientific calculations can be carried out. And these computers have a multiphase converter assembled on the motherboard to power the processor. A nine-phase converter easily converts 12 V from the power supply into the 1,2 - 1,3 V required for processor operation at currents of 20 - 25 A. Moreover, the efficiency of such converters is in the range of 95 - 97%.
                      I hope there are enough numbers now?
                      These entertainments, even over the hill, are needed more for cutting and PR
                      In general, the article talks about hybrids. And the military has been using them in DPL for about a century, and other than nuclear sources, no other alternatives are foreseen.
                      1. 0
                        23 December 2023 02: 11
                        Quote from barbos
                        I hope there are enough numbers now?

                        not the same numbers. Numbers - so many joules of work enter the generator, so many kilowatt-hours of energy appear in the battery to be delivered to the engine. I know that transformers can work well.
                        Quote from barbos
                        And the military has been using them in DPL for about a century, and other than nuclear sources, no other alternatives are foreseen.

                        and then these diesel submarines with a rather large battery compartment limp along at an economical speed of several knots. Because there are no options, oxygen is poorly soluble in water, and if fish still have enough, then submarines don’t. Apart from the “crutch” of pumping oxygen in reserve, nothing has been invented, and this is presented as an incredible technical achievement. Although liquid oxygen costs a penny and they have been producing it for more than a hundred years. Maybe airplanes also need a larger battery for some reason, so that electricity can be generated when descending? Well, so that it is modern and environmentalists are happy?
                      2. 0
                        1 January 2024 14: 31
                        not the same numbers. Numbers - so many joules of work enter the generator, so many kilowatt-hours of energy appear in the battery to be delivered to the engine.
                        Yeah, I got it. I'm correcting myself, comrade military man. I will put it in your language:
                        The generator has 100 tarpaulin boots on its shaft. One hundred good, new, authorized, polished to a shine, tarpaulin boots (or 50 pairs, if you are a warrant officer). On a good generator, due to losses due to mechanical friction and resistance losses in the windings, 2 boots are worn out (one pair of boots if you are an ensign).
                        As a result, 98 boots (49 pairs if you are a warrant officer) arrive at the battery charger. On any multiphase rectifiers made of field-effect symmetrical thyristors and a stabilizer based on a powerful MOSFET (powerful field transient), three boots wear down (sorry, comrade warrant officer, I can’t explain how one and a half pairs could get worn down).
                        In fact, 95 boots reach the battery during a marching step (comrade warrant officer, I understand this is beyond good and evil, but 47,5 pairs of boots reach).

                        and then these diesel submarines with a battery compartment of quite large sizes limp along at an economical speed of several knots

                        You might think that nuclear power plants are pouring down, that smoke is rising from the water. And they don't care about noise because they are atomic.

                        Oxygen is poorly soluble in water
                        Really? How interesting is it then that water gurgles when it boils? Carbon dioxide or radon? I understand that the Charter doesn’t say much about it at all, but to give you an idea, water is actually a highly polar dielectric. Well, so they know.

                        Although liquid oxygen costs a penny and they have been able to produce it for more than a hundred years.
                        It costs just a penny to extract a strong explosive oxidizer from the atmosphere, where it is about 24%? And they extract it by drilling into the atmosphere, yeah.

                        Maybe airplanes also need a larger battery for some reason, so that electricity can be generated when descending?
                        I understand that this is not written in the Guard Service Charter, but already in the decaying West, electric-powered aircraft are being tested at full speed, some have even received certificates of airworthiness. Well, we are all so proud as hell and still smoke the sky with Corn.
                      3. +2
                        2 January 2024 14: 15
                        Quote from barbos
                        In fact, 95 boots reach the battery during a drill step

                        And then how many pairs of boots go to the engine?
                        Quote from barbos
                        How interesting is it then that water gurgles when it boils? Carbon dioxide or radon?

                        Mostly the steam gurgles
                        Quote from barbos
                        It costs just a penny to extract a strong explosive oxidizer from the atmosphere, where it is about 24%? And they extract it by drilling into the atmosphere, yeah.

                        Quite cheap, installations are sold openly. You just need to know how to use
                        Quote from barbos
                        Already in the decaying West, electric-powered aircraft are being tested in full, some have even received certificates of airworthiness

                        And what? Is there an economic justification for this? Or is this an expensive innovation to then ban conventional planes and raise prices, just like Marx?
                      4. -1
                        3 January 2024 23: 09
                        And then how many pairs of boots go to the engine?
                        And where and why did the motor appear in the original chain Generator -> Charge voltage stabilizer -> Battery? Did you come out of yesterday's Olivier after the herring under your fur coat to breathe?

                        Mostly the steam gurgles
                        Yeah, because the angle is right, so the water gurgles with steam, and not with gases dissolved in it.

                        Quite cheap, installations are sold openly
                        Against the backdrop of Covid, I don’t remember cheap installations for obtaining and liquefying oxygen from the atmosphere. Even on expensive Amazon it was not visible. If everything were so cheap and accessible, then the heads of cities would not run to nuclear scientists asking them to share the precious gas that they extract from water for cooling circuits using special installations (there are strict standards for the concentration of oxygen in water for cooling circuits)

                        And what? Is there an economic justification for this?
                        Well, apparently there are not completely fools and “Stupid” (c) sitting there and, judging by recent history, they know how to count money. I remember how electric cars were ridiculed, now they are taking over the world, how we made fun of UAVs, we didn’t need microelectronics, and we’ll buy whatever we need. We’ll survive the same thing with electric planes. Then, as has historically happened, we will hastily put together another national project with great government support (good drink) in order to at least a little catch up with the departing train.

                        Or is this an expensive innovation to then ban conventional planes and raise prices, just like Marx?
                        Have you forgotten what they did to our aviation in the late 90s, when they banned our planes under the guise of ecology and noise protection? They will soon switch to electric cars and will also ban the access of internal combustion engines to their territory. Then the same thing happens in aviation. Well, as always, we will trail behind, tongue hanging out.
                      5. +1
                        4 January 2024 03: 10
                        Quote from barbos
                        And where and why did the motor appear in the original chain Generator -> Charge voltage stabilizer -> Battery? Did you come out of yesterday's Olivier after the herring under your fur coat to breathe?

                        The motor appeared right next to the wheel. Are you pretending to be narrow-minded? In the chain engine - transmission - wheel, instead of the second stage, a generator - charging - battery - electric motor appeared. How much will the final loss be between the diesel engine and the wheel? You constantly run away from the answer
                        Quote from barbos
                        Yeah, because the angle is right, so the water gurgles with steam, and not with gases dissolved in it.

                        It's mostly steam. For what purpose did you decide to get smart? Do you have fish gill technology for submarines?
                        Quote from barbos
                        Against the backdrop of Covid, I don’t remember cheap installations for obtaining and liquefying oxygen from the atmosphere.

                        This is because of your narrow-mindedness. Have you heard anything about metallurgy? Converter, oxygen purging? Oh yes, Covid and the rush, there’s not enough for everyone, so it doesn’t count, and since your salary isn’t enough, it means it’s expensive.
                        Quote from barbos
                        Well, apparently there are not completely fools and “Stupid” (c) sitting there and, judging by recent history, they know how to count money.

                        Whose money? Buyers?
                        Quote from barbos
                        I remember how electric cars were ridiculed, now they are taking over the world

                        Capturing in the face of laws to stop issuing? Or in the context of a massive injection of money into Musk’s pockets, taking into account that his factories have not shown profits and he is dumping?
                        Quote from barbos
                        how we made fun of UAVs

                        Who made fun of them and at what? We made UAVs under Khrushchev. They made fun of how someone came up with the idea that the Bayraktars cannot see the air defense system, but he breaks all the shells. But it turned out the other way around.
                        Quote from barbos
                        We’ll survive the same thing with electric planes.

                        Electric cars have been made for decades, electric trucks still won’t be made, but here airplanes are somewhere over the horizon
                        Quote from barbos
                        Have you forgotten what they did to our aviation in the late 90s, when they banned our planes under the guise of ecology and noise protection?

                        This is exactly what I wrote about. But now screens are not needed, they simply ban everyone who is wrong.
                        Quote from barbos
                        They will soon switch to electric cars and will also ban the access of internal combustion engines to their territory.

                        Namely, they protect their markets from the wrong producers. But our cars are simply not allowed.
                        The question is - what is the breakthrough here? Where are the advantages other than protectionism? Why is this necessary in military technology? Are you going to Europe to ride an electric tank? Or sell it to the Germans? Maybe build more conventional tanks, come to Brussels and force them to cut up all the Airbuses along with the factories, and they will fly on non-ecological Tupolev tanks? Or are you patient and if tomorrow they say that if not all workers are homosexuals in the production of something, then this is the wrong product, will you tell the workers to take off their pants, otherwise we will be late for important markets?
                      6. -1
                        6 January 2024 00: 08
                        The motor appeared right at the wheel

                        Why not behind the wheel or in front of it?

                        Are you pretending to be narrow-minded?

                        There were no answers as to why the engine was attached where it was not originally? Or as in the case of a Tesla battery for a tank? Like, I know these things.
                        Do we need a screenshot for proof, or should we read what we write ourselves? Do you still have strength?

                        You constantly run away from the answer

                        Yeah, in those five boots that got lost in the generator-charger chain))

                        It's mostly steam

                        That's where there is atmospheric air.
                        https://www.mathnet.ru/links/894c4fc360dc5ab3880eb82d656708d8/tvt350.pdf

                        Have you heard anything about metallurgy?

                        About black or colored? And that oxygen for the converter is obtained from Dishman devices purchased on Ali?
                        And these oxygen stations provide medical oxygen? Once we started talking about Covid.

                        We made UAVs under Khrushchev

                        Exactly as I remember now: a UAV controlled by kamikaze pilots.
                        Where is it all? Where??? If it supposedly existed since the time of Khrushchev. In science fiction books of that era?
                        Why, if we have allegedly been producing all this since time immemorial, have volunteers purchased and are purchasing drones for our fighters on the same Ali?

                        Electric cars have been made for decades

                        Electric forklifts are not electric cars at all, although they also have a steering wheel, pedals and batteries. And they really have been made en masse for decades. Golf carts, if only))) Well, this is a so-so electric car. Especially for our conditions.

                        This is exactly what I wrote about

                        Where exactly? Screenshot to the studio!!!

                        The last paragraph was most likely written under the influence of the winded Olivier. Now, for you, I will conduct a detailed analysis of the proposals:
                        1 “Precisely, they protect their markets from the wrong manufacturers. But our cars are simply not allowed.
                        The question is: what is the breakthrough here?”
                        I re-read my comment several times, and still couldn’t find the place where I wrote about a breakthrough or breakthroughs. Never. If others come after me for comments, then I have nothing to do with it.

                        2 “Where are the advantages here besides protectionism? Why is this in military equipment? Are you going to ride an electric tank in Europe? Or sell it to the Germans?”
                        This has been used extensively in military technology for a long time. He gave an example with DPL. Has it been used for a long time? Is it mass produced? Moreover, it’s not just us. On space satellites (this is very high above your head, but not on the Sun), energy is stored in batteries. There will be many more satellites in orbit than submarines. RTG is a rather expensive and capricious pleasure.
                        I personally don’t see anything wrong with selling a tank to the Germans, just like I don’t see much else. How much can we buy almost everything from them?

                        3 "Can they build more conventional tanks, come to Brussels and force them to cut down all the Airbuses along with the factories, and they will fly non-ecological Tupolev tanks?"
                        I will not comment on the depth of the depths of this brilliant idea. I strongly recommend writing an article here on this topic and seeing the reaction in the comments. It'll be great.

                        4 “Or are you patient and if tomorrow they say that if not all workers are homosexuals in the production of something, then this is the wrong product, will you tell the workers to take off their pants, otherwise we will be late for important markets?”
                        Your idea of ​​entering and capturing sales markets is interesting. Personal experience? Not otherwise.
          2. 0
            17 December 2023 22: 50
            Quote: Not the fighter
            If my memory serves me correctly, the efficiency of the electric motor is 95%, there are losses only due to friction and ohmic resistance of the windings. But the internal combustion engine, oddly enough, requires cooling, and the heat leaves with the exhaust. I still believe in 30-40% efficiency of internal combustion engines, but I’m unlikely to do more. And there is no need to talk about the record results obtained at the stand.

            In general, your memory is definitely failing you. There are NO engines with an efficiency greater than 90% if my memory serves me correctly. If I'm not mistaken, I ate some of them. engines (the best efficiency reaches up to 80-85%) Losses from ate. motor not only from reactance, but also from inductive and they are much more reactive (the one you called ohmic). That’s why I ate from almost everyone. engines have fans for cooling (another reason for the decrease in efficiency, because the fan also has air resistance) (only engines that are designed for a very short time of continuous operation do not have a fan.) As for the efficiency of the internal combustion engine, for a diesel engine it is about 45%. For gasoline engines it is within the range of 35-37%. But the problem with hybrids on military equipment, in my opinion, is far-fetched. To be honest, in principle they are NOT NEEDED on, say, tanks or armored personnel carriers/infantry fighting vehicles. What is the difference between a hybrid and a conventional internal combustion engine power unit? Essentially, the inclusion of additional food in the system. engines and increased capacity of batteries. And of course a more powerful generator. BUT ensuring the operation of the electronics of a tank/armored personnel carrier/infantry fighting vehicle in a parking lot with the internal combustion engine turned off depends only on the volume of batteries and the presence of an APU and not on whether the control system is a hybrid or not. But the COST of hybrid and classic technology differs significantly, if not by an order of magnitude. Not to mention the fire hazard of lithium batteries. In my opinion, it is much more effective to solve the energy requirements of armored fighting vehicles not by complicating (increasing the cost of) the design in the form of hybrid control systems (power plants), but simply by increasing the volume of batteries of more powerful generators and APUs. In this case, the cost criterion will be higher than that of hybrids. And the maintainability of classic internal combustion engines is definitely higher (which is also important for military equipment). hi
            1. 0
              6 March 2024 15: 11
              The coefficient of performance (COP) of an electric motor is the ratio of the useful power of the power unit to the power consumed. This indicator for engines with a power of up to 100 kW ranges from 0,75 to 0,9. for more powerful power units, the efficiency is significantly higher: 0,9-0,97.
    4. 0
      17 December 2023 22: 22
      Quote from alexoff
      How much does a very high-quality and modern Tesla battery weigh?

      There is a pack of 18600 or similar.
      The quality is questionable (they buy cheaper ones from China).
      And the question should be how much does the BATTERY weigh.

      But it is not important.
      It is important that lithium, when damaged, turns the Tesla into a crematorium. It burns fiercely and instantly.
      And the battery pack is there under the entire bottom...
      Okay, let’s say they took them out separately, but you need a lot of them, taking them out behind the armor won’t work like the external fuel tank of a tank (it’s so vulnerable).
      You'll get tired of stewing it too.
      It is doubtful that it is suitable for military equipment other than drones.
      1. +1
        17 December 2023 23: 46
        The fact is that a Tesla city car can be used to get to work and back, in a more or less normal climate and for constant use. SUVs and trucks are not made with batteries, but here they went even further and decided to make military hybrids. Someone in Europe not so long ago dreamed of solar-powered tanks, well, they have a green agenda, a flag in their hands, let them destroy their armies, and if after six months of inactivity it turns out that their tanks are no longer operational, we will only be happy . Why do we need such garbage? We have an army at war now. Has anyone from the front asked for this? I think that on the list of requirements, more powerful batteries will be number one thousand five hundred, and it’s better to add another 10-20-30 tons of armor and a stronger engine to the equipment, rather than toiling around with bullshit saying that if you try, it might come in handy.
        1. 0
          19 December 2023 14: 42
          Quote from alexoff
          The fact is that a Tesla city car can get you to work and back in a more or less normal climate

          It’s funny that the mega “innovative” (according to PR people) electric car remained in the same place as the ancient electric car, well, let’s say the one that Nicholas II had (and this is certainly no later than 1917).
          It’s still “a bit of a ride around the city.”

          Quote from alexoff
          . Someone in Europe not so long ago dreamed of solar-powered tanks,

          Let them make a bomber! Preferably at night.
          good

          Quote from alexoff
          Why do we need such garbage?

          Apparently we also want to be “fashionable”. wassat
          It seems like there’s nothing to do.
    5. 0
      17 December 2023 22: 48
      If you buy gasoline of the same weight as the battery
      Somewhere in the region of 12-18 liters of 95 gasoline. That's how much equivalent energy is stored in a Tesla battery. How much it will cost in money needs to be calculated for each region. If you push a train uphill at a constant speed, it will run out of steam pretty quickly.
  3. +3
    16 December 2023 04: 30
    It only takes a few bullets or shrapnel to set the battery pack on fire.

    The same can be said about bullets and shrapnel getting into the fuel tank.
    1. KCA
      +6
      16 December 2023 05: 44
      This is the first time I’ve heard that diesel fuel can be set on fire by a bullet or shrapnel, it will sparkle as it cools down, just like in water and that’s it, try lighting diesel fuel with a match, we prefer to install diesel engines on vehicles, and the gas turbine engine on the T-80 can generally be filled with everything, even sunflower oil
      1. -1
        16 December 2023 06: 02
        Quote: KCA
        This is the first time I've heard that diesel fuel can be set on fire by a bullet or shrapnel.

        When a bullet or shrapnel hits a fuel tank, it heats it up due to the monstrous frictional force. And the larger the area of ​​the fragment, the higher the temperature will be when the tank is pierced. And you, too, try pouring a thin layer of diesel fuel, and then bring a burning match to it wink
        1. KCA
          +1
          16 December 2023 06: 08
          So a thin layer will burn out instantly, although if the cover or mask mesh is stretched, the diesel fuel will light up in one go, but it will still burn with less heat than gasoline and smoke more
          1. 0
            16 December 2023 06: 14
            Quote: KCA
            So a thin layer will burn out instantly

            A thin layer inside the car will cause a thick layer, and this is a fire. And we must not forget that inside there is combat-ready ammunition, and not cast iron blanks
            1. +3
              16 December 2023 10: 07
              And we must not forget that inside there is ammunition ready for battle.

              And now let’s add to all this an almost “non-flammable” lithium battery. I think that he doesn’t care at all that gasoline or diesel fuel will set him on fire. It’s not a fact that the fire extinguishing system will help here.
              1. kig
                +3
                16 December 2023 15: 24
                Catapult him out, instantly laughing
            2. 0
              17 December 2023 22: 29
              Only with diesel fuel it starts relatively smoothly.
              But the batteries are as harsh as diarrhea. They burn almost like gunpowder.
              [media = https: //vk.com/video-16112463_456239709]


              And in the video they were not picked; they blazed due to a defect, defect or something else.
              If you punch through, fun should immediately begin.
              The electric bus practically puts the Abrams to shame, whose ejector panels went off. The flame is comparable in size.
      2. 0
        16 December 2023 18: 09
        But the tanks were burning (T 34), and are still burning (T72-T 90), Leopards, Abrams, etc.
    2. +6
      16 December 2023 06: 46
      The same can be said about bullets and shrapnel getting into the fuel tank.

      No, not either, being hit by a bullet or shrapnel is guaranteed to damage the battery, even without a fire. Getting into the tank will not necessarily lead to a fire, since the air-fuel mixture is burning, and if the tanks are full, then the fire will not occur, the fuel will leak out, but the equipment will be able to continue moving and get out of the fire.
      1. -8
        16 December 2023 06: 50
        Quote: Popandos
        fuel will leak, but the equipment will be able to continue moving

        Fuel will leak out of a hot hole made by a bullet or shrapnel. In addition, there will be a great many of these bullets and fragments. During the war, our diesel tanks burned no worse than German gasoline ones
        1. +5
          16 December 2023 10: 15
          This is true, so why else put lithium batteries in there. The only “pro” that the author of the article cites is that: "Military equipment will inevitably become more and more energy-intensive". But maybe, instead of fencing the hybrid, it will be enough to increase the generator power within the same mass.
          1. +4
            16 December 2023 20: 29
            Even more, extinguishing a lithium battery is not so easy, and it is almost impossible to stay in a closed room with this fire.
            Honestly, besides the efficiency and dynamics for peacetime, the hybrid has dubious pros = the more complex the system, the higher the risks. These things look acceptable and tempting at temperatures up to the Vistula, but to the east the climate is different.
            in total - well, let it pass. but our tanks can get you to Berlin and Lisbon
            1. +5
              17 December 2023 21: 20
              I'll add my two cents, the lithium battery can spontaneously catch fire. Never a tank of gasoline with diesel fuel.
    3. 0
      17 December 2023 23: 11
      Quote: Dutchman Michel
      It only takes a few bullets or shrapnel to set the battery pack on fire.

      The same can be said about bullets and shrapnel getting into the fuel tank.

      Sorry Michel, but you seem to watch too many action movies. Neither a fragment nor, especially, a bullet can set fire to not only diesel fuel, but even ordinary gasoline (unless the tank is full, of course). If you don't know, I can tell you. It is not the diesel fuel or gasoline itself that burns, but the fuel vapor. You probably don’t know this, but for example, in Israel, diesel fuel is poured between the two front sheets of tanks (it seems like the first Merkav models)!!! Simply because diesel fuel extinguishes the cumulative jet VERY well. And even during the Second World War, the mechanical drivers of even the SU-76M tried, if possible, to keep those fuel tanks in the very front part full. If the armor was penetrated, the tank did not explode, but at most it caught fire (after the shell exploded, of course) if it was a blank (i.e. a solid anti-tank projectile), at most the gasoline caught fire BUT did NOT explode), but very often it did not even light up if the tank was full. And this is GASOLINE!!! But if the tank was empty, even in diesel tanks, then the tank EXPLODED even from a blank. Even the T-34!!! But lithium-ion batteries are even prone to spontaneous combustion if, for any reason, the withdrawn current exceeds the threshold value. And there’s nothing to say about the bullet hitting the Akum, not to mention the fragments. Local armageddon begins.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. +7
    16 December 2023 05: 48
    Let them overengineer as much as they want in the West, but military equipment must be simple, maintainable and not very expensive. We know how to maintain the balance between technical complexity, necessary capabilities and price. We don’t need any military hybrids or electric transmissions; a tank and armored personnel carrier are not a Tesla or a DEK-251.
    A battery, naturally as energy-dense as possible, a bunch of power electrical equipment, plus fuel and ammunition - isn’t our fire load becoming too much?
    1. -6
      16 December 2023 12: 32
      Yeah, you need to ride horses and fight with checkers, according to that logic.
    2. +3
      16 December 2023 21: 26
      Quote: Corvair
      but military equipment must be simple, maintainable and not very expensive.

      Military equipment was never simple and inexpensive at the time of its introduction. The same T-34 (now perceived as a standard of mass production and oakness) in 1940 cost 429 rubles, and the most advanced BT-000M with the same newest V-7 diesel engine cost only 2. Their simplicity was approximately the same.
      1. 0
        17 December 2023 23: 21
        Quote: Yaroslav Tekkel
        Quote: Corvair
        but military equipment must be simple, maintainable and not very expensive.

        Military equipment was never simple and inexpensive at the time of its introduction. The same T-34 (now perceived as a standard of mass production and oakness) in 1940 cost 429 rubles, and the most advanced BT-000M with the same newest V-7 diesel engine cost only 2. Their simplicity was approximately the same.

        Well, this is not a very correct example. BT-7M is the same serial BT-7 but with a diesel engine. And the T-34 is no longer 11t, but 32t, and it also has a more expensive 76mm cannon. For example, in mid-1944, the T-34-85 cost as much as 225000 rubles. and this despite the fact that the tank weighed 4 tons and its gun was already 85mm, and there was still a war going on and there was no inflation!!! If you take into account all these factors, it suddenly turns out that the T-34-85 is almost cheaper than the BT-7M. And if you look at the price per ton of weight, then the T-34-85 is more than two times cheaper than the BT-7M!!!
      2. 0
        April 6 2024 19: 19
        I couldn’t find the cost of the T-34 in 1940.
        During the Great Patriotic War, the cost of the T-34 constantly decreased and amounted to:
        in 1941 – 289 thousand rubles;
        in 1942 – 193 thousand rubles;
        in 1943 - about 145 thousand rubles;
        in 1944 – 140 thousand rubles;
        in 1945 – 135 thousand rubles.
        My point is that “sources” are like dirt these days and you need to trust them with a great deal of skepticism.
    3. 0
      17 December 2023 23: 09
      Let them overengineer as much as they want in the West, but military equipment must be simple, maintainable and not very expensive.
      That's right, there can be no objections here. Just what are we talking about? After all, this scheme has probably been around for a hundred years in the construction of submarines. There is nothing fundamentally new here for the military.
      Unlike diesel submarines, power is supplied not to the propeller, but to the wheel.
      It would be interesting to hear the opinion of the submariners, because they are most in touch with what is happening.
    4. 0
      17 December 2023 23: 09
      Let them overengineer as much as they want in the West, but military equipment must be simple, maintainable and not very expensive.
      That's right, there can be no objections here. Just what are we talking about? After all, this scheme has probably been around for a hundred years in the construction of submarines. There is nothing fundamentally new here for the military.
      Unlike diesel submarines, power is supplied not to the propeller, but to the wheel.
      It would be interesting to hear the opinion of the submariners, because they are most in touch with what is happening.
  6. +6
    16 December 2023 06: 11
    Quote: Letterhead
    And the battery is reusable, unlike 500 liters of fuel

    Any battery has its own lifespan. Will a combat vehicle be ready for a multi-kilometer march if its battery is running low and no one can tell when it will finally die? And if you take, for example, a platoon with three or four vehicles. Under different loads, each vehicle will have different reload cycles, which means that all vehicles in the platoon will have different capabilities for marching. If we compare aircraft engines, then one has a full tank of fuel, and the other has only half
    1. +2
      16 December 2023 08: 54
      What are they supposed to be charged from in the field? From mobile diesel power plants? From excuse me, the electrical network? So that the destruction of the diesel power plant destroys all the armored vehicles of, say, a platoon? They would also suggest a contact network with trolleybus horns.
      1. 0
        16 December 2023 10: 47
        A hybrid involves a fuel-dependent power plant inside a machine that turns a generator that charges a battery, a nuclear reactor for example or a Sterling engine, etc., a nuclear aircraft carrier, a nuclear submarine, a nuclear icebreaker, and also a German tank destroyer Ferdinand from the Second World War and a Mouse tank, these are all hybrids if there is only Akum inside and an electric motor (they also come with solar panels), then this is an electric car
        1. -2
          16 December 2023 11: 17
          And if you were talking about charging electrical equipment, then firstly it will begin to appear after the appearance of more energy-intensive batteries - so that one charge of the day will be enough for at least three marches, and secondly, fuel and ammunition are being delivered, so charged batteries will be delivered and discharged ones will be taken away for charging in some kind of drone in automatic mode
        2. 0
          17 December 2023 22: 48
          Quote: t7310
          a nuclear aircraft carrier, a nuclear submarine, a nuclear icebreaker, and also the German tank destroyer Ferdinand from the Second World War and the Mouse tank - these are all hybrids

          Lie.
          It is a ELECTRIC TRANSMISSION.
          Well, like Belaz. And Mouse/Perdinand. There may be starting current from the batteries (and that could be air).
          For nuclear surface crabs, batteries (as a source of energy for propulsion) are unnecessary.
          Submarines remain, and that’s not a fact (if the reactor is noisy).
          1. -1
            18 December 2023 04: 46
            The operation scheme of a sequential hybrid vehicle is simple: the internal combustion engine cranks a generator directly connected to it, the electric current generated by the generator is supplied to the electric motor, which, in turn, drives the wheel or wheels. This eliminates the need for a gearbox and clutch.

            Content source: https://naukatehnika.com/posledovatelnaya-gibridnaya-silovaya-ustanovka-ot-tanka-maus-do-sportkarov.html?ysclid=lqa90ih296659373496
            naukatehnika.com


            You were banned from Google, you are refuting my words without checking, In general, I am not against the division according to the principle of the HYBRID design and there are probably some prefixes to the word HYBRID, but even this article begins with a battery-free tarantay, So nuclear aircraft carriers, icebreakers and Maus\Perdinand hybrids, but sequential
      2. 0
        16 December 2023 13: 19
        Quote: Corvair
        What are they supposed to be charged from in the field?
        There is also a peacetime regime.
    2. +4
      16 December 2023 14: 57
      Under different loads, each machine will have different recharge cycles,

      Here all the discussions boiled down to the “battery-gasoline” issue. And I didn’t see a single one about the BMS system for the battery itself, which gasoline simply does not have.
      I played with lithium at one time. For some reason no one talks about the difficulty of charging lithium batteries. About their balancing. When some of the cans sag, the total capacity will become approximately the same as the weakest capacity. So it would be a good idea to “shake up” the battery. Throw out (replace) weak links. IN FIELD? Who will change? Soldier? An officer? They are able? What about BMS service? The exit of a simple field worker threatens with fire. No, IMHO, this is not acceptable on a car. Quadric - yes, Airplane with camera/rocket - yes. Electric boat - NO! At least for now it's lithium! If there is something less hectic, then we can watch it.
      1. +4
        16 December 2023 15: 04
        Well, one more small comment. And what about the production of the “cans” themselves? Where? How many? It seems that both questions can be answered with words with the prefixes “ni-”.
        1. +3
          16 December 2023 17: 25
          Well, here we go with the minuses... Apparently we produce a lot of lithium, which I simply don’t know about. But.
          I wanted to throw in one more moment. For thought. For those who are not in the know.
          There is a very good Ukrainian channel on YouTube, and there are guys there who professionally repair Tesla motors. And there you can see that the frequency generator for a Tesla is approximately equal in volume to its electric motor! Now let's look at an armored personnel carrier with motor wheels (as proposed). And where will we put the frequencies? ON THE armor, or UNDER? Total weight and volume of the electric motor + batteries + frequency drivers. Plus the weight of the wires (copper is not very light). Or maybe it’s really easier to throw it all away and increase the reservation by this weight, for example? So, as a person who constantly deals with electric motors/frequency drives at work, I don’t see much benefit specifically for military equipment in the use of powerful traction electric motors. Only disadvantages. But a ship/submarine with their volumetric and weight parameters is a different matter. And it’s much easier to cool all this “good” at sea. And power electronics, by the way, do not heat up so little. And this is an extra factor of unmasking!
      2. 0
        17 December 2023 16: 54
        For some reason no one talks about the difficulty of charging lithium batteries.

        The complexity of charging lithium and the general complication of electrics, a fire hazard comparable to ammunition, is taken for granted. Most people associate lithium-ion batteries with a fire hazard.
  7. +1
    16 December 2023 06: 13
    Where are those lasers? Are they just coming out of the laboratories? How much do they consume?
    Maybe an auxiliary generator, something like GTA-40, would be enough?
    Which they are now trying to insert wherever possible, because their noise level, heat generation and efficiency are much better than the main internal combustion engine in “generator” mode, for example, during long-term parking and the need to be ready to immediately open fire.
  8. +4
    16 December 2023 06: 25
    It’s strange to look at attempts to introduce terrible things into our heads, that we missed the energy of steam, by...
    Firstly, the difference is not so great if the enemy has supply issues. During a war or “in a week,” I would not dare to “change” the army’s shoes to super-economical hybrids. Nobody would dare. This is a rather local option and it is better to use MTLB than to switch to some kind of hybrid, whose advantage is only in low consumption and slightly better traction. If we add that without the presence of infrastructure, these crafts are useless, then the thought comes that this is just a gamble. Sorry for my Russian.
  9. +4
    16 December 2023 06: 36
    If hybrids are made for military equipment, then it’s not a sin to remember about EMP ammunition. The explosion of such ammunition can cause fatal damage to the entire electrical and electronic system of a military or conventional vehicle. There is another direction for the development of power plants. Russia is a global monopolist in the production of such a renewable component as UAN (an aqueous solution of urea and ammonium nitrate). By the way, there was recently a scandal related to the supply of UAN tankers to the USA. If you use UAN as a fuel, you will need to create combined-cycle power plants. UAN can be in the form of aqueous or water-alcohol solutions. Similar fuel was used in torpedoes and special drills. The resource is renewable, it requires nitrogen, oxygen, methane, water and electricity, we have all of this in abundance. The use of UAN, methanol, methane and dimethyl ether is the type of hydrogen energy most suitable for Russia. We don’t need to be apes, we have our own resource and technological advantages, and we need to use them.
    1. 0
      16 December 2023 10: 42
      Urea - ammonium nitrate UAN - is a common fertilizer.
      https://www.pesticidy.ru/active_compound/Urea-ammonium_nitrate
      1. +2
        16 December 2023 12: 33
        Naturally! And Russia is a global monopolist in its production. If you produce aqueous solutions of UAN, there is no need for granulation, the price of such a mixture is even lower. The use of UAS in combination with methane derivatives is one of the ways to alternatively develop energy machines with a steam-gas cycle.
    2. 0
      17 December 2023 23: 40
      If hybrids are made for military equipment, then it’s not a sin to remember about EMP ammunition.
      This is my patient fellow
      I missed it so much, I missed it so much, the memories of EMP weapons love
      There were so many people missing physics and mathematics in the school smoking room, and then in liqueurs. Who studied where drinks . Some are even humanists feel
      So, all sorts of planes are hit by lightning from thunderstorm charges. And not just once a year on an important occasion, but quite often, no matter how hard they try to avoid storm fronts. Lightning in a thunderstorm charge can have so much energy that we are not yet capable of making such EMP charges. Only fairly sensitive electronics and electrics can withstand such hits with dignity. You can break away from the series and watch the corresponding videos.

      The resource is renewable, it requires nitrogen, oxygen, methane, water and electricity, we have all of this in abundance.
      Are there too many components? More precisely, isn’t there too many components? request ? Why then is methane bad as an energy source? It is much easier to store than hydrogen, which requires just water and electricity to produce. At the same time, the calorific value of methane is not bad at all.
  10. +2
    16 December 2023 06: 38
    The age of electricity in transport will come when charged electrolyte, like gasoline or diesel, will be poured at gas stations.
    1. -2
      16 December 2023 11: 33
      You can simply change batteries like on rental electric scooters
  11. +4
    16 December 2023 07: 36
    How justified is this hybrid complication and increased cost of the design? Add here also maintenance with the replacement of worn-out batteries and it is not a fact that the battery and the internal combustion engine will coincide in replacement/overhaul time. What is acceptable in civilian life is often not appropriate in war.
    1. 0
      16 December 2023 13: 22
      Quote: Alexey 1970
      How justified is this hybrid complication and increased cost of the design?
      It seems to me that if you make an electric motor for each wheel and throw away the gearbox and other clutch, it might turn out interesting. And if you do it as you do now, there’s definitely no point.
      1. 0
        17 December 2023 04: 21
        Why does everyone hate clutch transmissions so much?
        A unit of minimal weight that significantly expands the traction range of any engine. Electrical as well.
        And about motor-wheels: on good cars the brakes are removed from the wheels to reduce unsprung weight.
        1. -1
          17 December 2023 09: 51
          Quote from: ln_ln
          Why does everyone hate clutch transmissions so much?
          Minimum mass unit significantly expanding the traction range of any engine
          Because it is a complex mechanical device that is subject to heavy loads. Reduces efficiency, breaks down, requires maintenance, single point of failure. 4 electric engines look preferable.
          Quote from: ln_ln
          And about motor-wheels: on good cars the brakes are removed from the wheels to reduce unsprung weight.
          In principle, I would not make a motor-wheel, so that the impacts of the wheel would not go directly to the engine.
          1. 0
            16 January 2024 01: 53
            Reduces efficiency

            This is serious?
            Is the efficiency of involute gearing lower than that of power transmission?
            Nope... If it’s a hybrid, then it’s only parallel, with one reversible electric machine to the box.
            1. 0
              16 January 2024 21: 13
              Quote from: ln_ln
              This is serious?
              Absolutely. Is it worth the box? Costs. Efficiency less than 1? Less.
              1. 0
                20 January 2024 19: 19
                1,5% is lost in the box, and 15% in the power transmission.
                1. 0
                  20 January 2024 19: 24
                  Quote from: ln_ln
                  1,5% is lost in the box, and 15% in the power transmission.
                  Well, not 1,5%, but 3-7%, but the main thing is what gets lost in the box additionally, and in power transmission - inevitable for a hybrid.
                  1. 0
                    20 January 2024 19: 27
                    3÷7% - this is if the wheels are done with a file.
                    Offhand, external gearing is 1,5%, internal gearing is 1%.
                  2. 0
                    20 January 2024 19: 27
                    3÷7% - this is if the wheels are done with a file.
                    Offhand, external gearing is 1,5%, internal gearing is 1%.
      2. 0
        21 December 2023 11: 51
        It is possible, only if one of the wheels slips, its power can be deducted from the total power of the vehicle. And then the four-wheeled cart, briskly flying along the asphalt, immediately stopped driving on the sand almost on level ground, the same thing will happen in the snow and on a slippery slope. If locks save a classic transmission, then the motor wheels have no chance.
        1. 0
          21 December 2023 20: 43
          Quote: Demon
          If locks save a classic transmission, then the motor wheels have no chance.
          Yes: make a power reserve for the motors and transfer power from the slipping wheel to the working one.
        2. 0
          6 March 2024 15: 29
          the best thing will happen in the snow and on a slippery slope

          It was decided a long time ago
  12. 0
    16 December 2023 09: 07
    The Japanese have an excellent Kubota V1505-T-E2B or V2203 engine, why not copy it?
    Combined with a generator, you get a compact installation.
    1. 0
      16 December 2023 21: 31
      The Japanese have a lot of great things, but their industry is also Japanese. It’s not a fact that we will be able to produce it en masse, with acceptable quality and at a reasonable price.
  13. +2
    16 December 2023 09: 13
    When considering a hybrid, I thought about eliminating the transmission and installing in-wheel motors (possibly recessed electric motors for each wheel).
    And it’s not a fact that this will lead to an increase in price, of course, if the country produces commercial units that can be installed on armored personnel carriers.
  14. +1
    16 December 2023 10: 34
    More precisely, even motor-wheels. The design was distinguished by its large mass, complexity and low reliability, which predetermined its unhappy future.

    The diesel engine was combined with an alternating current generator, alternating current was supplied to the power rectifier, and direct current was supplied from the rectifier to the motor wheels. The ATS TEP, an automatic control system for the traction electric drive, was responsible for exciting the traction generator, and therefore for the movement of the vehicle in various road conditions.
    1. 0
      17 December 2023 01: 44
      It’s been 15 years since powerful inverters were added to this scheme and more reliable motors are used alternating current.
  15. +3
    16 December 2023 12: 02
    In this way, the Americans not only improve their technology, but also fight with global warming.
    Are they already tired of fighting the ozone hole? As with the “shallowing of the Caspian Sea”? All this is hyped PR nonsense.
    The article itself is interesting, respect to the author.
  16. ASM
    +3
    16 December 2023 14: 15
    It's strange why there is no diagram with motor wheels. It seems to me that only the abandonment of a complex and heavy transmission can somehow help hybrids. The internal combustion engine turns the generator at a comfortable speed without jerking or revving up, and this prolongs the service life. The motor wheels can be individually programmed, and jerks during movement are compensated by batteries. Braking by motor-wheels will generate additional. energy.
    1. 0
      16 December 2023 23: 48
      eliminating the complex and heavy transmission may at least help hybrids somehow. The internal combustion engine turns the generator at a comfortable speed without jerking or revving up, and this prolongs the service life. The motor wheels can be individually programmed, and jerks during movement are compensated by batteries. Braking by motor-wheels will generate additional. energy.
      Refusal of a complex and heavy transmission can also help convertiplanes made using a hybrid design. The tiltrotor propellers, rotated by a regenerative electric motor on permanent magnets, in horizontal flight when braking in air (for example, upward) currents can also operate in energy recovery mode and are capable of charging the on-board battery. For example, some gliders can fly in rising air currents for several days. The free-floating time of such gliders is limited only by pilot fatigue.
  17. -2
    16 December 2023 17: 47
    Have nothing to do? - take the example of a dog - a phrase - “due to the higher overall efficiency of the hybrid drive, the motors are installed at slightly lower power” - this is a pearl laughing
  18. 0
    16 December 2023 20: 47
    Like any half-hearted solution, it doesn’t look ideal or even good.
    I can’t imagine how, using electric power, this entire armored shell will crawl far off-road. So it’s a nice thing to roll with small toad jumps around urban agglomerations in defense + gain in noise and thermal detectability. But this is where all the advantages end and hemorrhoids begin.
    The conceptual development itself, however, is useful. Although something revolutionary to replace lithium-ion, lithium-polymer and others like them is not visible in the foreseeable future - only design tricks with corresponding homeopathy in addition to capacity. And a fuel cell won’t solve the problem, and most likely hydrogen won’t either.
    In the absence of prospects for a “final” solution, excluding the niche of special equipment (which certainly should be for special tasks with specific requirements), I do not see such a broad future.
    Lasers are magical, but so is the laser itself and the air conditioners, and the cooling system for it should also take up space, sir, we will have something left inside, taking into account the reservation - a good question. Is it possible that we will throw out the baby with a basin of water?
    1. 0
      23 December 2023 18: 31
      Another confuses hybrid technology with electric technology
  19. 0
    17 December 2023 09: 22
    Hybridization goes unnoticed. Fifty years ago, motorcycles were started from a pedal starter - now all respected models have an electric starter and a decent battery. Passenger cars have two or three batteries for different things. The power of generators equipped with internal combustion engines is gradually increasing from generation to generation. There are already many auxiliary generators in military equipment for autonomous operation of the product’s equipment. Where should the VNEU be placed on a submarine?...
  20. 0
    17 December 2023 12: 57
    It seems to me that such machines are needed for the Airborne Forces. Low noise and not voracious (The engine runs at constant speed, this is a godsend for reducing noise and fuel consumption) for raids behind enemy lines
    1. 0
      April 3 2024 23: 40
      Oh, yes, you’ll just have to land by landing method, having previously captured the airfield with your bare backside by “reconnaissance and infantry”, and at the same time ask the enemy to leave at least an AUV and replaceable batteries instead of a diesel engine
  21. fiv
    0
    17 December 2023 16: 22
    We need to learn how to make good and different diesel engines. We need to learn how to make excellent batteries. We need to learn how to make high-voltage RF power transistors. In the meantime, while we learn to do all this, it will become clear whether hybrids are needed in the army.
  22. 0
    18 December 2023 15: 20
    Most likely, the most successful scheme will be a series hybrid scheme, where electricity will be generated by a hydrogen electro-chemical generator. This will make it possible to reduce the weight and size of the power plant by 2,5 times due to the use of solid hydrogen banks/cartridges, recuperated (based on MgH2). A hydrogen electro-chemical generator with a power of 50 kW in the dimensions of a suitcase was developed for the VNEU boats of the 677 project, from which they wanted to get 100 kW, but something didn’t work out there.
  23. -3
    3 March 2024 12: 11
    The concept of the tank exhausted itself 50 years ago, if not 70.
    A solution to this problem is possible by dividing the function of the tank into an unmanned robotic strike platform with remote control, which makes no sense to armor and where it is enough to have electric propulsion, because throwing 500-800 km under its own power is a “girl’s dream.”
    And the BMP, from where fire control is carried out, and which is provided with maximum means of protecting personnel, and this BMP is also highly desirable for electric propulsion, because modern thermal missile homing heads are becoming unusable.
    The problem of charging batteries exists, but in the auto industry the solution is often to replace empty ones with charged ones, and this simply requires special equipment (no one is outraged by the need for a runway for aviation).
    1. 0
      April 3 2024 23: 32
      So far, we haven’t come up with anything better yet, especially considering that our modern “strategy and tactics”, designed on the basis of the Western agenda and the experience of expeditionary war, have not yet, for objective reasons, been restored to the proper level of the continental one, after the “progressive reforms” of gifted managers "and the de-Sovietization of the Armed Forces, when there are no enemies of the Russian Federation and no enemies are foreseen," peace-friendship-chewing gum.
  24. 0
    April 3 2024 23: 25
    Here the issue of maintenance and disposal, operating hours and long-term storage, not to mention logistics, will still be acute.

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