"Termites" go to the front

99
"Termites" go to the front
"Termite" in the assembly shop. Photo: amalantra


First of its kind


Helicopter technology showed itself in all its glory in the special operation. Especially the army one aviation was revealed during the past and unsuccessful offensive of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.



The crews of the Ka-52 shot at the “armor” of the Nazis at the front from long distances with almost impunity. And vice versa, the enemy clearly did not have enough support from helicopter pilots during the notorious offensive. Military analysts and historians will be assessing the degree of influence of fire support helicopters on the course of a special operation for a long time.

At the same time, one cannot fail to mention the vulnerability of helicopters. Any rotorcraft is an excellent target on the battlefield, which can be reached by both missile and small arms fire. weapons. In the defense of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, they managed to reliably cover their air defense positions, which is why helicopter pilots are forced to either take serious risks or work from a pitching position. Army aviation flights at ultra-low altitudes, even in their own rear areas, have become typical.

The transfer of at least part of the helicopter function to unmanned platforms has been asking for a long time and ideally should have happened even before the special operation. But we have to be content with what we have – at the moment it’s news on the launch of the MDP-01 Termit attack helicopter into production. At the sites of NPP Strela JSC (an enterprise within the Kronstadt company), assembly has been organized since the beginning of November drones.




“Termite” was first shown back in 2021. Photo: Missiles.ru

Appearance drones helicopter type on special operations fronts cannot be underestimated. For many reasons, cars can make life much more difficult for nationalists, especially on distant frontiers. First of all, drones can now be used in so-called “helicopter-hazardous” areas without putting pilots at risk.

It was announced that the Termit carries three S-8L missiles, allegedly specially adapted for UAVs. Missiles with laser homing heads, which means they require external illumination. This can be done using an on-board optical-electronic system, or from an external target designator. For example, from the unmanned Orion circling nearby.

Many commentators complain about the high visibility of the Termite - it is noisy and rather large. But, unlike aircraft-type UAVs, a helicopter drone can use the terrain for cover. “Termite” can be called a multifunctional analogue of the Orion attack drone, which does not require an airfield.










At the moment, the Termit’s only weapon is a trio of S-8L guided missiles. Photo: Missiles.ru

It is necessary to make some clarifications to the characteristics of “Termite”.

Some sources call the drone’s payload 350 or even 450 kg. If the Termit were such a heavyweight, then the engineers obviously would not have limited themselves to three S-8L missiles, each of which pulls no more than 15 kg. The total take-off weight of an unmanned helicopter lies in the range of 350–450 kg – hence the confusion from ill-informed experts.


Everything in this infographic circulating on the Internet is good, except for the Termite payload.

Even from the photographs it is clear that a combat vehicle of such dimensions will not lift nearly half a ton of cargo into the air. “Termite” was developed on the basis of the domestic helicopter-type drone SmartHELI-350, or its long-range version SmartHELI-450.

The vehicles were presented back in 2021, along with the first prototype of the military version of the Termit product. At Army 2021, some contracts were even signed with the Ministry of Defense, but it has only now come to actual production.

There is no open data on the target load of the Termit, but you can focus on the characteristics of the civilian prototype SmartHELI-350/450, according to which the vehicle can carry no more than 45 kg. Which explains the small number of S-8L missiles on the external sling.

Lightweight and maneuverable


A little about the parameters of “Termite”.

The stated maximum speed is 150 km/h, which is quite enough for a compact drone that is 5 meters long and 2,3 meters high. Autonomy is about 6 hours, which provides a working radius of the vehicle of 300–400 kilometers. If you believe the official data, then we have the parameters of the civilian SmartHELI-450 with a fuel reserve increased to 140 liters.

By the way, the manufacturer’s portfolio includes a larger aircraft – SmartHELI-550 with a flight duration of 7,5 hours. The drone has a more powerful engine and an increased fuel supply.

By the way, it’s worth talking about the power plant in more detail.

In 2021, the general director of the Aviation Support Systems (ABC) company, Alexander Kurnikov, said that the level of domestic components for an unmanned helicopter reaches 90 percent. The ill-fated 10 percent of imports included power plants. Two years ago, Russia did not produce specialized engines for such UAVs, so it was necessary, as Kurnikov said, to “remake the power units available on the market.”

What kind of unit is now under the hood of the Termit - one can only guess. In the most unlikely case, Russian engineers managed to create their own engine, but borrowing a unit from China or another friendly country looks much more reliable. For example, licensed production may well be organized.

It is worth mentioning separately that these are just speculations, but the very fact that the Termit power plant was not announced in the press speaks volumes.






The completely civilian UAV SmartHELI-450 was chosen as the base for Termite.

Despite its modest combat load of 45–50 kilograms, the Termit can occupy an important niche at the front. In addition to the mentioned S-8L guided missiles, the drone can also carry anti-tank weapons. The drone is unlikely to be able to handle the renowned ATGM “Attack” - the mass of the launch complex is close to what is permissible for the Termit. But it is quite possible to adapt a 29-kilogram Cornet, but this task clearly has an asterisk.

A helicopter UAV allows you to do a lot at the front.

If we take innovations in the tactics of using drones as a starting point, then “Termite”, for example, can be used from ambushes. This requires unmanned surveillance and reconnaissance assistants. The operating principle is as follows. The Termite lands near the target where important guests from the Ukrainian Armed Forces are expected to arrive in the near future. The site needed is small - only 10 by 10 meters.

Such tactics are especially effective in the depths of the enemy’s defense, where the concentration of troops is not as great as at the front, and uninvited guests are not expected. To operate, you need a repeater drone with target monitoring devices. At the right moment, “Termite” rises into the air, works on the target and goes home.

There is little fantastic in this example - similar schemes are implemented by our fighters using FPV drones, which are on duty near the enemy in sleep mode on the ground. This allows you to significantly save charge and battery life. The practice of using attack drones from ambush is also common among nationalists. “Termite” approaches such work with a noticeable adjustment for size and visibility, both in the air and on the ground.

A new Russian helicopter drone may well serve as a remote mining system. The TM-57 anti-tank mine pulls 9 kilograms, that is, “Termit” is able to take up to five such products on an external sling. With a successful combination of circumstances, a UAV can give the enemy a lot of unpleasant surprises.

But the main role of Termit at the moment is to operate fragmentation missiles at a range of up to 6 km. A helicopter will not be able to independently illuminate a target with a laser at such a distance without rising several hundred meters and exposing itself to enemy MANPADS. The developers have equipped the machine with elements of artificial intelligence - the operator simply needs to point the laser at the target, and the machine will do the rest itself. It will choose the most convenient launch moment and hit the enemy with a high probability of death.

The appearance of “Termite” in the arsenal of the Russian Army is a very positive development. The drone should become the founder of a whole family of helicopter UAVs capable of delivering several hundred kilograms of payload to the enemy.

As a result, this will make it possible not only to complement the work of the Ka-52 and Mi-28, but to fully replace the vehicles on the entire front.
99 comments
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  1. -5
    14 December 2023 05: 26

    This kind of thing could be more effective than any front-line drone bomber.
    1. +1
      14 December 2023 08: 53
      commentators complain about the high visibility of the Termite - it is noisy and rather large
      * author Evgeny Fedorov

      Enemy hexacopters like Baba Yaga are also quite large.
      But they are actively used.
      Have the commentators forgotten about this?
      1. +2
        14 December 2023 09: 02
        The Chinese is the size of a large vacuum cleaner. But it’s not even about him, it’s about air-blasted ammunition. Now the entire Internet is flooded with videos where each individual fighter is being hunted, sometimes using 3-5 wogs or ordinary grenades per person.
        Such a thing could kill a DRG or a group of motorized infantry at once. She doesn’t care about any natural shelter: bumps, holes, trenches, craters, stones, logs, bushes, corpses, broken bricks, ruts, arable land, snow, etc. One reset and that’s it
        1. -1
          14 December 2023 09: 13
          Quote: Tlauicol
          Chinese man is the size of a large vacuum cleaner

          industrial vacuum cleaner wink
          I worked in agriculture, I know what the XAG P100 agrodrone is, of which many have flown over Ukrainian fields.
          And this is a 4-screw, not eight
          1. +1
            14 December 2023 09: 20
            And it was snowing since morning Yes Why are you even writing this? I'm talking about the use of airborne ammunition by the Chinese
            1. 0
              14 December 2023 10: 06
              Quote: Tlauicol
              use of air blast munitions by the Chinese

              Finally past.
              We disperse ...
              1. +1
                14 December 2023 10: 56
                Quote: Mister X
                Quote: Tlauicol
                use of air blast munitions by the Chinese

                Finally past.
                We disperse ...

                Are we looking for a hexacopter the size of a UAZ (UAV Termit)?
                Or are we looking for normal ammunition for light UAVs?
                1. 0
                  14 December 2023 11: 45
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  for light UAVs

                  For or against drones?
                  After all, air blast is traditionally used in air defense.
                  Right?
                  1. +1
                    14 December 2023 12: 02
                    For. And air blasting was used long before the advent of air defense
                2. -2
                  14 December 2023 12: 54
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  Or are we looking for normal ammunition for light UAVs?

                  For different classes, or only heavyweights?
                  For the Battle of Borodino, or SVO?
                  Would an air blast have greatly helped during the assault on Mariupol and other cities?

                  VOGs were mentioned in the comments.
                  Maybe increase the production of bouncing Foundling grenades, rather than developing heavy mines, as in the Chinese video?
                  VOG will handle almost any copter.
                  But no mines.

                  FOG can be used not only as free-falling ammunition, but also as shots.
                  Simple multi-barrel systems for drones have been developed.
                  Have you heard?
                  1. +1
                    14 December 2023 13: 11
                    such a mine weighs half as much as the PG Luch. And Blowfish is not a heavy drone. Even if he carries a whole box of such gifts. You can't really get anything out of VOGs unless you use phosphorus VOGs. But an air explosion of a mine would solve many problems. And much faster
                    1. -1
                      14 December 2023 15: 46
                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      You can’t really get anything out of VOGs anymore

                      You will also say that you are from the AGS too.

                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      apply phosphorus VZG

                      Why trifle?
                      Right away nuclear.
                      And let the whole world tremble.
                      Yes?

                      Quote: Tlauicol
                      But an air mine explosion would solve a lot of problems

                      Will it help when storming buildings?
                      Or is your solution for combat operations only in an open field?
                      1. 0
                        14 December 2023 17: 39
                        Will dropping vog when attacking buildings help?
                        Not in an open field, but in a field where any bump multiplies the total by zero. Just take today’s footage: two Ukrainians are standing two steps away from the explosion, behind a frail bush half a meter in diameter. And they move on...
                        I'm not offering prohibited weapons, I'm offering a deal
                      2. 0
                        15 December 2023 10: 30
                        Quote: Tlauicol
                        Yes, take today's loss for example

                        We argue as if we were both on the front line, in the trenches.
                        And we choose what to kill the enemy with)
      2. +9
        14 December 2023 11: 03
        They are used because there is nothing else. They are used because the army is unprepared for modern warfare, and the frontline performers are trying to get out of it as best they can. An article at the level of a schoolchild with fantasies and ridiculous conclusions. The experience of SVO is the experience of how it should not be. And how can we draw deep conclusions about modern warfare from this mess? There is no need to invent anything and lie about unattainable characteristics and capabilities. All capabilities of these sub-UAVs are limited by the radius of transmitting images in real time to the operator’s monitor, also in high quality, in order to detect and recognize the target.
        A UAV-helicopter combat combination has long been invented and is in operation, where a small drone finds a target and illuminates it, being controlled, if necessary, from the helicopter, and the helicopter acts as a missile carrier and destroys the target without entering the enemy’s kill zone. This cutting-edge trend is getting a new development. A new air-to-ground missile with a range of up to 30 km is being developed for the APACH. The 18 existing ones are no longer enough for them. There is no need to live in a parallel reality and invent a wheel.
        https://topwar.ru/14043-ah-64d-apache-block-iii-level-4-pogonschik-elektronnyh-dronov.html

        "Termites" are going to the front"

        And the “Orions-Pacers” and “Outposts” are also coming, but they just can’t get there... You’ve chewed one thing, now you’ll get a new fabulous candy...
        1. +1
          14 December 2023 12: 05
          Only in this combination it’s not a small drone with laser illumination, but a heavy one, the size of an airplane
        2. +2
          14 December 2023 20: 15
          And the “Orions-Pacers” and “Outposts” are also coming, but they just can’t get there.[Quote] [/ quote]
          The outposts shone a lot at the beginning of the NWO, now the main stars of the TG channels are the FVP. Because your beloved Apache, even with a 100-kilometer missile, is not a particularly frequent visitor to the front line, and each unit can have a FVP, and it can be used for any purpose in a particular case, and not for a priority at the discretion of the Apache pilot.
        3. +1
          15 December 2023 02: 31
          a small drone finds a target and illuminates it, controlled, if necessary, from a helicopter, and the helicopter acts as a missile carrier and destroys the target without entering the enemy’s kill zone. This cutting-edge trend is getting a new development. For Apache


          Ours abandoned this concept in 90 in favor of the Ka-52, although nothing prevents you from attaching a drone to anything

          Due to the absence of a second helicopter crew member, who is usually engaged in searching for targets and aiming all guided weapons, it was planned to use unusual combat tactics when the Ka-50 received external target designation from its partner (a reconnaissance helicopter).

          The lighter B-60 helicopter, which was being developed at the same time (later designated Ka-60 Killer Whale), was initially going to be used as a reconnaissance and target designator helicopter. But the program to create it almost completely stopped after the construction of the first model in the early 1990s. And the Kamov Design Bureau chooses for this role the two-seat Ka-52 Alligator, which was a more universal product, since in addition to performing the tasks of a “command” vehicle, it could be successfully used as an attack helicopter, capable of independently fighting, even in the dark and in difficult weather conditions.

          In parallel, in the 1990s, unmanned reconnaissance helicopters were developed for the Ka-50: Ka-37 and Ka-137 (predecessors of modern drones).


          And also replace the coaxial circuit with a synchrocopter... in the future, maybe even now we’ll try to attach a tandem cockpit and a synchrocopter to the Ka-52 (Ka-50)
          1. 0
            15 December 2023 13: 15
            Quote: t7310
            Ours abandoned this concept in 90 in favor of the Ka-52, although nothing prevents you from attaching a drone to anything


            ???? What are you talking about?
            The Ka-52 is a conceptual copy of the Mi-28N in a coaxial design. The Mi-28N has a dedicated channel for communication with UAVs, but in the 90s the Mil cooperation did not develop this concept. We didn’t work on weapons, we didn’t work on UAVs.
            Kamov Design Bureau also did not propose such a concept. Unless, of course, you mean the half-crazy idea within which the Ka-60 was designed. When, to provide reconnaissance and target designation for the single-seat Ka-50, it was planned to launch the three-seat Ka-60 forward...
            1. 0
              15 December 2023 14: 33
              ???? What are you talking about?

              a small drone finds a target and illuminates it... For Apache

              in the 1990s, unmanned reconnaissance helicopters were developed for the Ka-50: Ka-37 and Ka-137

              Which were abandoned in favor of the Ka-52
        4. 0
          15 December 2023 13: 09
          Quote: Totvolk80
          A UAV-helicopter combat combination has long been invented and is in operation, where a small drone finds a target and illuminates it, being controlled, if necessary, from the helicopter, and the helicopter acts as a missile carrier and destroys the target without entering the enemy’s kill zone. This cutting-edge trend is getting a new development. A new air-to-ground missile with a range of up to 30 km is being developed for the APACH. The 18 existing ones are no longer enough for them. There is no need to live in a parallel reality and invent a wheel.


          A lot of things have been invented. And how many things were invented by Lohokid Martin! And “laser Boeing”, and “railgun”, and “destroyer with its belly up”... Only reality, evil rubbish, breaks everything.
          The "small drone" concept has a waaaaaaaay problem. What to do when this drone is shot down? Let me remind you that all US military equipment in recent decades has been built based on the “war with monkeys”. And this scheme with a drone is designed to ensure that the enemy simply has nothing to shoot down the UAV with. What if there is? Then the helicopter will turn into a carrier of weapons that it cannot use. It turns out that when flying out on a combat mission, a helicopter is critically dependent on an unarmored “buzzer”, which is forced to fly directly “over the trenches” of the enemy.
      3. +2
        14 December 2023 12: 09
        No, we haven't forgotten. Nowadays, disposable FPV drones with an RPG-7 shot attached are actively used. We need the same one, only more powerful. So that it could carry a shot from a 105 mm cumulative or thermobaric grenade.
      4. 0
        22 December 2023 13: 50
        That's right, hexacopters are actively used because they are available in sufficient quantities, their mass production has been established and the production volume is large. The tactics of their use have been worked out, the crews have been trained, and controlling such a hexacopter is not much more difficult than controlling a Mavik. Each hexacopter carries up to 10 wogs. The applications are broad. This includes infantry and equipment, and in general everything that he reaches. What about termites? The size is 3 times larger, which means it will be easier to shoot down, mass production is not debugged, there are no trained calculations. The controls are much more complicated than those of a hexacopter. Carries only 3 missiles that still need to hit the target
  2. +2
    14 December 2023 05: 38
    Helicopter UAV

    The idea of ​​a helicopter drone is not bad, but the main rotor will be very visible to ground-based air defense systems. This is its most serious drawback
    1. +1
      14 December 2023 12: 56
      The Termite lands near the target where important guests from the Ukrainian Armed Forces are expected to arrive in the near future. The site needed is small - only 10 by 10 meters.

      this is exactly what is visible, and the author of the article at least does not understand this, in the heat of the moment advertising the military market for civilian equipment. The point is that military equipment is always a complex, i.e. all ideas are not just put together, but adjusted and tested to achieve the desired practical properties. And in this aircraft, the reconnaissance optics on the outer pylon have a liquid appearance with an empty interior space.
      I am extremely surprised by the optimism in telecontrol of a terrain-following flight with an unclear “relay”. Roughly speaking, if you have to crash the FPV several times even during training, then who will have to be protected on the front end so that he can steer it? 150 km is the speed of the Lancet, with a fundamental difference in the footprint on the radar.
      multi-rotors have a decent supply of traction power due to miniaturization and electric drive with lithium batteries, but here the internal combustion engine chosen for peacetime and optimized for economy... IMHO it’s not all thanks to God
    2. +1
      14 December 2023 15: 15
      At low altitude, air defense will see little. And in general, air defense also becomes visible much earlier
      1. 0
        15 December 2023 13: 53
        Quote from alexoff
        At low altitude, air defense will see little. And in general, air defense also becomes visible much earlier

        Air defense does not see at low altitude, yes. But the higher you raise the detector, the lower this altitude. And in the west there are sentry drones flying there that scan at 500 km. And there are also a lot of satellites passing over Ukraine
        1. 0
          15 December 2023 14: 43
          And how does this AWACS clearly see what is happening near Kiev or Odessa? How many km is there?
  3. +1
    14 December 2023 05: 41
    As a result, this will make it possible not only to complement the work of the Ka-52 and Mi-28, but to fully replace the vehicles on the entire front.
    The displacement of manned aircraft cannot but attract attention. However, even before the start of the SVO, the need to increase and intensify the development of production of domestic UAVs of various modifications and purposes was repeatedly stated. The current dynamics of development of domestic UAV design and production cannot but rejoice. But we should not forget about other areas of aviation. For example, bringing the Il-212 aircraft to serial production, increasing the production of Il-76 aircraft of various modifications, including the A-100, not to mention passenger and combat manned multifunctional platforms. Perhaps dreams, but very real and achievable, necessarily taking into account the requirements from enterprise personnel to themselves and the appropriate attitude towards them in the best understanding with the aim of improving the production culture, and therefore the quality of products. For example, an increase in salaries for ordinary employees (it’s time for the “managers” to calm down their appetites and demands for personal financial well-being without separation from the enterprise team) at aviation enterprises and the expansion of social guarantees and incentives, again for ordinary employees, because whether the “managers” will fly depends on the correct ability to work with a file "on a business trip, and as an alternative, a one-way business trip - a neighboring dimension. I hope the experience and legacy of the work of Dmitry Fedorovich Ustinov will be considered more carefully by the current generation in order to clarify the principles of work and achieve the necessary results in work in all aspects of life. And it’s high time to sift the “managers” through a sieve in the sands of the UAE so that everyone would be discouraged, as an alternative to ride on the tail of a camel as a tour through the sands on a double-decker “yacht” of the desert as a reward for the work done in order to avoid extremely coordinated measures of influence as a visual aid for poorly performed work and misuse of the state’s financial resources, and, accordingly, the citizens living in the state good drinks
  4. +3
    14 December 2023 05: 55
    I haven’t seen it anywhere, but maybe someone knows? With such a wide range of UAV types, is there any classification of them? Apart from the type of flight, destination (repeater, observer and kamikaze) there is usually no information.
    1. +3
      14 December 2023 06: 31
      Quote: Arkadich
      With such a wide range of UAV types, is there any classification of them?

      From what I know. There are disposable kamikaze drones, and there are ones that are returned to their home base. Returning to base also in different ways: some with the help of a parachute, and some like an airplane - on the landing strip. By takeoff type, are divided into ejection and runway take-off. By type of management, are divided into those controlled by the operator and those in which a flight program with a certain algorithm is already inherent. By type of power plant They come with an internal combustion engine, a turbojet engine and, least of all, with an electric motor. Summary: in my opinion, today a clear classification of drones has not yet been developed...

      P.S. In general, at present, drones are in their infancy and the generals do not quite correctly understand how they should be used. They understand that the weapon is promising and has a great future, but its place in modern combat, in my opinion, has not yet been determined. It would also be interesting to know another opinion, the opinion of those who directly exploit them - and it will be the most correct one...
      1. 0
        15 December 2023 23: 15
        It is generally incorrect to talk about unmanned, we should talk about telecontrol [in real time]. then everything will fall into place: tactical squads, company squads, front - this is not so much an affiliation, but in whose interests they are used. and belonging is associated with operators and resp. communications.
        the division into strike and reconnaissance purely for civilians explains something, but in war all tasks are assigned to people, units, and not pieces of hardware. It's just that people have adequate tools for their tasks. but here we still have a gray area between the past and the future.
        technologically, there is an objective difference in the payload and the corresponding range. it is impossible to fly lithium for a long time and economically with 3 kg of weight; although you can fly far on lithium and shine with your eye, it is more correct to do this with a bird with a wingspan of 12-15 m and an appropriate power plant to maintain communication, or at a specific time and place a reconnaissance group may appear and launch something with a flight range of 250 km plus minus, i.e. . intermediate between a carbon multirotor (fpv now, which brings everything together) and an orion.
      2. 0
        16 December 2023 23: 00
        In general, at present, drones are in their infancy.
        An important clarification is needed. Domestic drones are in their infancy. They were reviled, the authors of articles about them were caressed heartily, while the potential enemy built up, developed and used them.

        generals do not quite correctly understand how they should be used
        They still dream of bayonet attacks and horse lava. What are you speaking about?
  5. +2
    14 December 2023 06: 25
    Needless to say, the SVO gave a huge impetus to the creation of UAVs, their adoption and use on the battlefield. As for Termite. Something that can be used effectively where there is great danger for pilots should only be welcomed. But still, UAVs will not completely replace fire support helicopters with their wide range of weapons. Perhaps in the future, when technology takes another step forward.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  6. +5
    14 December 2023 07: 34
    . Kurnikov said that the level of domestic components for the unmanned helicopter reaches 90 percent. The ill-fated 10 percent of imports included power plants.

    Is the engine the most important part and only makes up 10%? How did you think? After all, the power plant usually accounts for half, and sometimes more, of the cost of the product.
    1. +1
      14 December 2023 13: 55
      There is a regular internal combustion engine with a hundred horsepower, a UAV costs at least 80 million, it seems to me that it is difficult to find such an expensive engine, even Lamborghinis have cheaper ones. And most of the money comes from electronics, which are hardly domestic
    2. 0
      16 December 2023 23: 07
      After all, the power plant usually accounts for half, and sometimes more, of the cost of the product
      It’s been about fifty years since it’s been completely different. Without electronics and software, it is just a motor with a propeller. And there you need details not from the radio market, but something more serious than even on Ali Express. Then you need to write a program for this electronics and debug it so that it flies as it should in flight. there, electronics with all the stuff account for at least 60-70% of the cost.
  7. +1
    14 December 2023 08: 18
    Quote: Luminman
    the generals do not quite correctly understand how they should be used.


    but they don’t even know how to “understand”: they only follow orders...
    but there will be a major who has entered the Academy who will propose this solution...
    relying on striped people means not respecting yourself
  8. -1
    14 December 2023 08: 42
    And again, not a self-sufficient combat unit. Again we need someone with a laser pointer.
    Thermite is good as a “first stage” or “platform” for a rocket with a TV head. Do we have anything weighing 25 - 45 kg with a TV head? Also inexpensive?
    The question is rhetorical, of course.
    The problem is not that the generals do not understand how to use it. The problem is that no one understands, from generals to designers. We sculpt and think. We sculpt and think again.
    1. BAI
      -2
      14 December 2023 09: 25
      Designers from private companies understand. They are constantly at the front, taking into account experience.
      The state doesn't care. There is a government order, don’t care about the rest
      1. +1
        14 December 2023 10: 41
        I do not argue. There are some initiative people. Patriots of their homeland. People who need results. But the problem is that the problem is systemic. With the same engines, the problem can only be solved at a very high level. A private owner from a small company, no matter how patriotic and ingenious he may be, will not be able to create something without the necessary components. In the field of UAVs, Russia needs a systematic approach. But unfortunately this is not the case.
        1. 0
          14 December 2023 12: 20
          In the field of UAVs, Russia needs a systematic approach.

          The problem is not this, or rather, not only this. There is no systematic approach to modern warfare in Russia. There is no modern concept of combat operations even at the tactical level. The situation is complicated by the fact that the Northern Military District is actually an anti-terrorist operation, which is carried out using outdated backward methods with storming their cities and wiping them into dust, with contact oncoming battles, with trenches, with shooting at squares, with tank duels and huge losses, including from our side. And all this is presented as new and advanced in military science! Well, where have you seen the General Staff of the Armed Forces of an advanced country command a local military operation?
          Modern war is not a military defense system, or rather, it is not a military defense system in such a mediocre performance from a military point of view... Why can’t we do it any other way? We may have been for a long time...
          And they should have:
          https://docs.cntd.ru/document/420246589
          https://www.files.ethz.ch/isn/55012/nz2.pdf
          1. +2
            14 December 2023 12: 42
            The SVO is in no way a counter-terrorist operation. This is a full-fledged war. Yes, on its territory. We recapture what was previously captured by the enemy.
          2. 0
            14 December 2023 20: 27
            SVO is actually an anti-terrorist operation, which is carried out using outdated backward methods with storming their cities and wiping them into dust, with contact encounter battles, with trenches, with shooting in squares, with tank duels and huge losses[i] [/ i]
            Wow! Did you think that elves would fly in on winged horses and take away all their enemies for re-education? Get to Avdeevka, proudly walk across an open field, and after 3-4 minutes the trenches will seem like not the worst option. If, of course, it appears to someone.
            Well, where have you seen the General Staff of the Armed Forces of an advanced country command a local military operation?[I]
            Is Desert Storm okay?
            1. 0
              15 December 2023 15: 40
              The General Staff develops operations, and the General Staff, in our understanding, never directly commands them, as we do! He has a different task, he must prepare the army for modern war, including at the tactical level. You understand the difference.
              In modern warfare there are no front lines or trenches.
              NWO is another, if you like, backward war. Well, we can hope that for now...
              And that the helicopter will work with a semi-childish buzzer, which is usually used in the absence of other means or by terrorists? Or he will lose the opportunity to work independently. ?
              Continue reading books about elves.
    2. 0
      14 December 2023 15: 16
      Quote: garri-lin
      Again we need someone with a laser pointer.

      Can’t he illuminate himself?
      1. 0
        14 December 2023 16: 57
        How???? What does he have to illuminate the target? And from what height?
        1. 0
          14 December 2023 17: 55
          Laser rangefinder/target designator? They pushed it into the eagle without any problems, do you think it won’t fit into a half-ton unit? I think it works from any height, since it is integrated into the GOES, if the helicopter sees it, it can illuminate
          1. 0
            14 December 2023 20: 07
            They shoved me into Orlan. This is unheard of about Termite. At least I didn’t see it in the text.
            1. 0
              14 December 2023 20: 10
              Don’t assume that it was done by complete fools, that a helicopter cannot aim its own missiles
              1. 0
                14 December 2023 20: 23
                The plastic civilian papelats was painted khaki. The ersatz ATGMs were wrapped with electrical tape of a non-canonical color.
                This is not a victory. This is a necessary measure. A noisy, large target is not resistant to even basic rifle fire. Plus it is also prone to freezing for work.
                Those who did this were certainly great. And I’m also sure that there is some kind of sight there.
                The question is different. How can this work and what is the cost/effectiveness.
                How will vibration affect helicopters?
                1. +2
                  14 December 2023 20: 35
                  Quote: garri-lin
                  The plastic civilian papelats was painted khaki.

                  What should be there, armor?
                  Quote: garri-lin
                  The ersatz ATGMs were wrapped with electrical tape of a non-canonical color.

                  Ultimately making an adjustable S-8 standard is a topic, we have few types of anti-tank guns, in the light drone format I would say there is nothing suitable at all, which has been talked about a lot for 5 years, but things are still there
                  Quote: garri-lin
                  A noisy, large target is not resistant to even basic rifle fire.

                  Helicopters turned out to be more survivable in the conditions of the Northern Military District; even the Ukrainian Armed Forces lost several times fewer helicopters than airplanes. Fortunately, our enemies have poor air defense on the front line
                  Quote: garri-lin
                  How can this work and what is the cost/effectiveness.

                  It depends on who they give it to. If the cunning foxes are from the MTR, then they will fly on them somewhere to Sumy and catch land transports or break transformers. If it is an ordinary division, then the helicopter will definitely not pay for its money; they will bomb dugouts or knock down cameras on communication towers.
                  1. 0
                    14 December 2023 21: 15
                    There shouldn't be any armor there. There shouldn't be anything there at all. The toy is clearly not cheap.
                    2. Ptur from Nara has existed for a long time.
                    3. Helicopters yes. But this is not a helicopter, but a helicopter-type UAV.
                    4. MTR and such ersatz????
                    Do not make me laugh. For the sake of a couple of missiles, drive a product at a cost of millions???
                    1. +1
                      14 December 2023 23: 25
                      2. We don’t have it in the series. We either have a cornet, or a mestizo, or helicopter birds of 50 kilos each.
                      3. Well, this UAV probably costs 10 times less than the Ka-52. It’s time to learn how to relay communications
                      4. Normal ersatz for MTR. The technology either works or it doesn't. Give all ten helicopters with video to some MTR brigade, they will fly along the routes for a kilometer and look for hemars, air defense systems or self-propelled artillery. Or hang out near the railways and send fiery greetings to the driver’s cab. And at night he would shoot at the windows. That is, do what they are not doing now. And I think they will convert some of the machines into something useful, for example, for dropping landmines on the railway.
                      1. 0
                        15 December 2023 08: 11
                        2. No, because actually, why??? The complete package costs less than one head. It’s better to let a package go than to kiss one. Let's leave collateral damage out of the equation.
                        We came up with it a long time ago. But no one needs it.
                        3. it costs 10 times cheaper or maybe 200 times less.
                        4. Exactly where they will fly, they will put pikes with RMB and this piece of plastic will happily burn on the ground without doing anything
                        It won't withstand even basic rifle fire.
                      2. 0
                        15 December 2023 14: 41
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        We came up with it a long time ago. But no one needs it.

                        Well, if the S-8L is put into production, maybe they will start pushing it into ordinary helicopters. There are too many whirlwinds against infantry fighting vehicles, I saw how they hit the trenches with whirlwinds, and the whirlwind stands like a foreign car.
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        it costs 10 times cheaper or maybe 200 times less.

                        Ten of these things can operate in 10 places. And they can do a lot, their pilots don’t have to be afraid of anything, and they can take off right from the front line.
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        Exactly where they will fly, they will put pikes with RMB and this piece of plastic will happily burn on the ground without doing anything

                        where is it - there? There is no need to fly in the same places.
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        It won't withstand even basic rifle fire.

                        But the pickup truck from the point does not hold the S-8L, it flies further. By the way, the PKT doesn’t hold much, even a tank can probably be hit with a burst to the rear. And what? Take everyone away, leave only the T90 with the Su-25? Infantry should be written off altogether; they can’t even hold grenades.
                      3. 0
                        15 December 2023 18: 43
                        The whirlwind through the trenches is excessive. I agree. How much does C 8l cost??? And how much does the explosive carry? For an infantry fighting vehicle, acceptable, but for a properly made bunker?
                        I repeat. Isn’t it cheaper than pouring a plastic bag from a turntable?
                        They obviously cannot take off from the front line. The termite is quite massive. And it won’t be of any use in 10 places either. Russia has UAVs that cover many tasks.
                        Yes, helicopter-type UAVs are needed. But normal and not ersatz.
                        Well, you suggested hunting for trains. Or along the roads. They won’t think of setting up security????
                        Destroy a tank with a burst of RMB fire??? What reality is this in????
                      4. 0
                        15 December 2023 19: 37
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        How much does C 8l cost???

                        It's hard to say, it depends on the scale of production. I think it’s cheaper than the kitol shell.
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        How much does C 8l cost???

                        At the front, of course, it is cheaper to work out NAR fortifications, and even better with conventional shells. A helicopter is a tool for deep flights for expensive and important targets. You can place a mine at the front in a bunch of cheap ways, and a hundred kilometers away you can use a helicopter like this. A geranium flies to Odessa, from somewhere a cheetah shoots at it, and all three available missiles fly at it, since the cheetah has a shorter range.

                        Of course, I have a lot of ideas for what such a pepelats can be used for. After all, instead of the S-8L, you can add a MANPADS, the needle is about the same dimensions.

                        Quote: garri-lin
                        They obviously cannot take off from the front line. The termite is quite massive

                        Well, according to the photos, a couple of men should drag him into the garage. Yes, the bass-200 is massive, it’s the size of a motorcycle, it drags 50 kilos, it would be much more convenient.
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        They obviously cannot take off from the front line. The termite is quite massive

                        What are these normal ones?
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        They won’t think of setting up security????

                        Let them display them everywhere, which means there will be fewer of them at the front. The main thing is to draw conclusions and constantly change.
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        Destroy a tank with a burst of RMB fire??? What reality is this in????

                        In Iraq, as far as I remember, the Abrams were thrown into the stern from the cliff
                      5. 0
                        16 December 2023 08: 12
                        It is correct to compare not with Kitolov but with aviation of equal opportunities.
                        Tobish, do you propose to accompany Geraniums with Termites???
                        Well, why drag it into the garage????
                        Abrams from Utes was not shaken.
                        And who can talk about the Cliff? I was talking about PKM.
                      6. 0
                        16 December 2023 21: 55
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        It is correct to compare not with Kitolov but with aviation of equal opportunities.

                        There are none, there is only KAB-20. They haven't been seen for a long time. Well, or you can compare the metis with the anti-tank missile.
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        Tobish, do you propose to accompany Geraniums with Termites???

                        I suggest using your brains in war, you know, there are all sorts of military tricks, and not, as we usually have, people want simple solutions - a frontal attack, even lying on the couch, they are too lazy to come up with something in more than one move
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        Well, why drag it into the garage????

                        so that the hemars don't arrive? so that they won’t be seen from a drone? I hope that we don’t have commanders like you in our army
                        Quote: garri-lin
                        Abrams from Utes was not shaken.
                        And who can talk about the Cliff? I was talking about PKM.

                        So you can try and get away with it. So what’s wrong with non-tanks, do you propose to write them off, well, they can use PKM, or they can use a cliff on a pickup truck and that’s it, defeat.
    3. 0
      16 December 2023 23: 09
      Do we have anything weighing 25 - 45 kg with a TV head?
      Something in the form of an exhibition prototype.

      Also inexpensive?
      Excluded.
      1. 0
        17 December 2023 08: 10
        Well, I wrote that the question is rhetorical.
        Although a lightweight version of Product 305 is begging to be developed.
  9. 0
    14 December 2023 09: 05
    The effectiveness of this drone will only be shown by practical use in combat operations.
  10. BAI
    +2
    14 December 2023 09: 22
    We need homing missiles. Otherwise the copter will be disposable
  11. 0
    14 December 2023 09: 54
    Quote: Stas157
    Is the engine the most important part and only makes up 10%? How did you think?


    you also ask them about the cost...
    I asked just now, and they told me that this is not about anything, the main thing is profit... and people are not performers
  12. +3
    14 December 2023 10: 45
    Well...I finally got it! From the very beginning of the North Military District, I have said more than once that drone helicopters are needed ... for example, to escort military columns ... especially when moving through “foreign” territory! And he even posted illustrations (!)... yes, even this very “Termite”, with S-8L missiles! By the way, the drone can be armed with a machine gun mount! I also want to make special mention of the Belarusian helicopter-drone "Hunter"! (Here are some data: The flight duration is 9 hours at a maximum speed of 180 km/h. The maximum take-off weight is 750 kg, of which 200 can be payload. The drone device, in depending on the type and location of the camera, it recognizes vehicles at a distance of 7-9,2 km, and a person - 4,5-6,2. The target designation range is 3 km) Drone helicopters should be placed on the base of armored vehicles (Typhoon platform)
    1. +1
      14 December 2023 10: 52
      Even the most inveterate suicides now do not dream of driving in columns across foreign territory.
      1. +1
        14 December 2023 11: 46
        At the beginning of SVO it was “relevant”! And there were reasons for this...
        1. 0
          14 December 2023 12: 12
          It quickly ended and ceased to be relevant in a couple of months. Need a drone for effective trench warfare
          1. +1
            14 December 2023 16: 59
            Never say never" ! Military columns...transport columns were and are, and are not going anywhere! Wherever they go! And it is necessary to protect the columns!
  13. +7
    14 December 2023 10: 54
    The site once again breaks through the bottom.

    The crews of the Ka-52 shot at the “armor” of the Nazis at the front from long distances with almost impunity.


    At the same time, one cannot fail to mention the vulnerability of helicopters. Any rotorcraft is an excellent target on the battlefield, which can be reached with both missile and small arms fire.


    Author, cross or panties. Moreover, what kind of small arms will reach the ATGM launch range? The same thing with air defense when the helicopter does not rise above 15 meters.
    All machine losses are when current “strategists” ignore the tactics developed in the Soviet years, as well as the accumulated experience, and try to imitate the West.


    It was announced that the Termit carries three S-8L missiles, allegedly specially adapted for UAVs.


    Namely, in fact, the same NAR S-8 with a seeker. With a beche it is much weaker than that of an ATGM.

    Many commentators complain about the high visibility of the Termite - it is noisy and rather large. But, unlike aircraft-type UAVs, a helicopter drone can use the terrain for cover.


    No, he can't. Operators will either hold the machine higher, or stick it into the same terrain. These are the features of the work of “remote pilots”.
    In addition, I will say from my own experience, the terrain does not really want to coincide with tactical plans.
    So these crafts will be knocked down at once.

    Despite its modest combat load of 45–50 kilograms, the Termit can occupy an important niche at the front.


    No, he can't. Only auxiliary, precisely because of the ultra-low combat load.

    If we take innovations in the tactics of using drones as a starting point, then “Termite”, for example, can be used from ambushes.


    Forget about these ambushes. They are not feasible in practice.


    A new Russian helicopter drone may well serve as a remote mining system. The TM-57 anti-tank mine pulls 9 kilograms, that is, “Termit” is able to take up to five such products on an external sling. With a successful combination of circumstances, a UAV can give the enemy a lot of unpleasant surprises.


    It is much cheaper and most importantly more effective to use other methods of remote mine laying. And this is a mosquito bite.

    But the main role of the Termit at the moment is to operate fragmentation missiles at a range of up to 6 km. A helicopter will not be able to independently illuminate a target with a laser at such a distance without rising several hundred meters and exposing itself to enemy MANPADS.


    And why the hell is he needed then? Spit three rackets? Well then, it’s better to take the Mi-8MT, which can take 120 of these missiles and throw it 14 km from a nose-up. When illuminated from another aircraft, the result is orders of magnitude better.

    As a result, this will make it possible not only to complement the work of the Ka-52 and Mi-28, but to fully replace the vehicles on the entire front.


    Author, have you played computer games? How are you going to replace a helicopter with up to 2600 kg of combat load with these flying spermatozoa for which 45 kg of overload is required? lol
    1. +1
      14 December 2023 11: 58
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      All machine losses are when current “strategists” ignore the tactics developed in the Soviet years, as well as the accumulated experience, and try to imitate the West.

      You used this tactic in the database against gangs with weak air defense, and in Afghanistan alone, while “gaining experience,” you lost 333 helicopters.
      Much water has already flowed under the bridge since Soviet times. Now our army is confronted by a completely different enemy with different air defenses and the presence of air defense systems and radars of various types. I'm not even talking about NATO satellite reconnaissance systems. This is when (figuratively) Major Rzhevsky of the Russian Aerospace Forces took his helicopter into the air, and the enemy immediately received a corresponding notification on their tablets.
      1. +1
        14 December 2023 12: 37
        You used this tactic in the database against gangs with weak air defense, and in Afghanistan alone, while “gaining experience,” you lost 333 helicopters.
        Much water has already flowed under the bridge since Soviet times. Now our army is confronted by a completely different enemy with different air defenses and the presence of air defense systems and radars of various types. I'm not even talking about NATO satellite reconnaissance systems. This is when (figuratively) Major Rzhevsky of the Russian Aerospace Forces took his helicopter into the air, and the enemy immediately received a corresponding notification on their tablets.


        Firstly, Afghanistan means flights over unfriendly territory, therefore losses are not only from MANPADS but also from MPA and small arms.
        Secondly, the first Chechen one is still a Soviet experience, most of the helicopter pilots are from the USSR.
        Thirdly, about half of the losses in Afghanistan are due to piloting errors. Back then it was customary to blame everything on combat.
        Fourthly, ideal conditions for helicopters to operate are when there is a front line.
        Fifthly, even if in ideal conditions you don’t give a damn about tactics and the experience gained by previous generations, and start working in pairs instead of units, launching ATGMs from hovering mode, and like the icing on the cake, parade along the front line at 100 meters, and even hover, losses are inevitable.
        1. +1
          14 December 2023 14: 16
          Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
          Firstly, Afghanistan means flights over unfriendly territory, therefore losses are not only from MANPADS but also from MPA and small arms.

          Soviet aviation began to suffer significant losses only after the spirits acquired MANPADS. Before that, from the rifleman - insofar/since.
          Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
          Secondly, the first Chechen one is still a Soviet experience, most of the helicopter pilots are from the USSR.

          That is, the experience of Afghanistan was difficult for Soviet pilots to adapt to, since they continued to suffer losses from weak air defense?

          Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
          Thirdly, about half of the losses in Afghanistan are due to piloting errors. Back then it was customary to blame everything on combat.

          So this is also an experience that is better practiced at training grounds. Now, most likely, the situation is the same and non-combat losses are in approximately the same proportion.
          Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
          Fourthly, ideal conditions for helicopters to operate are when there is a front line

          Ideal conditions for helicopters to operate are when the enemy has no air defense or has been knocked out. And at the same time, means of monitoring the air situation. It’s also fortunate that dill does not have good aviation with air-to-air missiles.
          If there are no such conditions, then even on your half of the front line you have to fly at extremely low altitudes, and launch missiles at the risk of your life. Even at extremely long ranges. In the current conditions, flyers are gaining their own experience, taking into account the current realities of the enemy having more advanced weapons, as well as the presence of their own (ATGM "Vikhr", edition 305 LMUR, etc.)
          1. -2
            14 December 2023 14: 32
            Soviet aviation began to suffer significant losses only after the spirits acquired MANPADS. Before that, from the rifleman - insofar/since.


            Yes, this is only possible on the Internet. The couch strategist tells the pilot who was in Afghanistan in 1986-87 about the reasons for the losses. lol
            In general, the largest losses occurred in 1985.

            That is, the experience of Afghanistan was difficult for Soviet pilots to adapt to, since they continued to suffer losses from weak air defense?


            Do you have problems understanding text? It was said that flying over unfriendly territory is ideal conditions for short-range air defense.

            So this is also an experience that is better practiced at training grounds. Now, most likely, the situation is the same and non-combat losses are in approximately the same proportion.


            The polygon will not replace real databases. But ignoring the accumulated experience leads to increased losses.

            Ideal conditions for helicopters to operate are when the enemy has no air defense or has been knocked out. And at the same time, means of monitoring the air situation. It’s also fortunate that dill does not have good aviation with air-to-air missiles.
            If there are no such conditions, then even on your half of the front line you have to fly at extremely low altitudes, and launch missiles at the risk of your life. Even at extremely long ranges. In the current conditions, flyers are gaining their own experience, taking into account the current realities of the enemy having more advanced weapons, as well as the presence of their own (ATGM "Vikhr", edition 305 LMUR, etc.)


            It's better for you to listen rather than talk. The only real threat to a helicopter is MANPADS, which is why it is tedious to huddle close to the ground and not go to the very front line. You need to do your job, and not look for adventures.
            And what today’s pilots do, even with such advanced technology, shocks the veterans. Alas, the EG generation also entered aviation.
            1. 0
              14 December 2023 15: 51
              Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
              Yes, this is only possible on the Internet. The couch strategist tells the pilot who was in Afghanistan in 1986-87 about the reasons for the losses.
              In general, the largest losses occurred in 1985.

              What, the Mujahideen didn’t have MANPADS before 1986?
              The main air defense systems of the armed forces of the Afghan opposition were 12.7 mm DShK machine guns, 14.5 mm ZGU-1 mountain anti-aircraft guns, ZPGU-2 twin anti-aircraft machine guns, 20 mm and 23 mm anti-aircraft guns, as well as man-portable anti-aircraft missile systems. From Of the entire listed arsenal of air defense systems, the most effective for combating low-flying targets, of course, were MANPADS. Unlike anti-aircraft machine guns and cannons, they have a greater range of effective fire and are more likely to hit high-speed targets, are mobile, easy to use and do not require lengthy crew training. Modern MANPADS are ideal for partisans and reconnaissance units operating behind enemy lines to combat helicopters and low-flying aircraft. The most widespread MANPADS of the Afghan rebels throughout the “Afghan war” remained the Chinese anti-aircraft complex “Hunyin-5” (analogous to the domestic MANPADS “Strela-2”) However, the trend towards increasing losses of aircraft due to their destruction by fire from MANPADS missiles in Afghanistan after 1986. was traced despite the significantly REDUCED INTENSITY of flights. But one cannot attribute the merit for this only to the “Stinger”. In addition to the same Stingers, the rebels continued to receive other MANPADS in huge quantities.

              Or here’s the article: The dangerous skies of Afghanistan [Experience in the combat use of Soviet aviation in a local war, 1979–1989]
              Zhirokhov Mikhail Alexandrovich.
              https://military.wikireading.ru/7094
              Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
              Do you have problems understanding text? It was said that flying over unfriendly territory is ideal conditions for short-range air defense.

              That’s what I’m talking about: your experience of flying over unfriendly territory is practically not needed in the air force, unless you fly into territory occupied by the Ukrainian Armed Forces.


              Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
              It's better for you to listen rather than talk. The only real threat to a helicopter is MANPADS, which is why it is tedious to huddle close to the ground and not go to the very front line. You need to do your job, and not look for adventures.

              So you only confirmed my thesis that all sorts of ZU / DShK in the fight against aircraft insofar as. In modern conflicts with partisans, MANPADS go to greater heights and ranges. In the Northern Military District, this risks getting hit by an air defense system. That's why they huddle close to the ground. No options.
              1. +1
                14 December 2023 18: 51

                What, the Mujahideen didn’t have MANPADS before 1986?


                No matter how it was, of course there were. Stingers just started arriving in 1986.

                Or here’s the article: The dangerous skies of Afghanistan [Experience in the combat use of Soviet aviation in a local war, 1979–1989]
                Zhirokhov Mikhail Alexandrovich.


                Yes, I had a chance to consult him.

                That’s what I’m talking about: your experience of flying over unfriendly territory is practically not needed in the air force, unless you fly into territory occupied by the Ukrainian Armed Forces.


                There are also landing operations. And there you have to climb.
                In addition, in Chechnya they have already worked with the front line.

                So you only confirmed my thesis that all sorts of ZU / DShK in the fight against aircraft insofar as.


                Actually, that's what I told you.

                In modern conflicts with partisans, MANPADS go to greater heights and ranges.


                No, height doesn't help.

                In the Northern Military District, this risks getting hit by an air defense system. That's why they huddle close to the ground. No options.


                Everywhere you have to huddle close to the ground, with no options.
                1. +2
                  14 December 2023 19: 23
                  Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
                  Stingers just started arriving in 1986.

                  But, from your own words, the greatest losses were in 1985. And the first Stingers appeared in 1986. Here is from Zhirokhov’s article.
                  [quoteNote that, based on the experience of the war in Afghanistan, Soviet military experts ranked MANPADS in descending order by degree of danger as follows: “Jevelin”, “Strela-2M”, “Stinger”, “Blowpipe”, “Red Eye”....
                  In general, according to most experts, the Strela-2M caused more damage to our Mi-24s in Afghanistan than the Stingers. The advantage of the “Strela” over the “Stinger” was that with a perfect hit, the “Stingers” hit the engine, and the “Strelas” hit the gearbox and stern, which was not protected by armor, moreover, penetrating the gearbox armor with a scattered cumulative jet..
                  It is quite difficult to provide complete statistics on Strel launches, since after 1986 all defeats of helicopters and aircraft were traditionally attributed to the American Stinger.
                  However, after the “Jevelin”, which was not used en masse, the “Stinger” had the highest hit statistics: out of 563 launches against the Mi-24, 89 missiles reached the target - about 16%. The strength of the Stinger was that firing the LTC gave only 27% of the missile’s escape rate versus 54% for the Strela. ][/quote]

                  Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
                  Actually, that's what I told you.

                  Firstly, Afghanistan means flights over unfriendly territory, therefore losses are not only from MANPADS but also from MPA and small arms.
                  Askold65:
                  Soviet aviation began to suffer significant losses only after the spirits acquired MANPADS. Before that, from the rifleman - insofar/since.
                  vovochkarzhevsky:
                  The couch strategist tells the pilot who was in Afghanistan in 1986-87 about the reasons for the losses. smile

                  Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
                  No, height doesn't help.

                  Systems such as the SVP-24 Hephaestus, and even earlier its foreign analogues, were precisely designed for bombing from aircraft from a high altitude, inaccessible to MANPADS. Although I don’t know if it makes sense (although it’s most likely technically possible) to install this system on helicopters. But modern missiles included in helicopter ammunition have a longer range than previous models.
                  1. -1
                    14 December 2023 22: 23
                    But, from your own words, the greatest losses were in 1985.


                    Because there were active military operations involving helicopter landings. The main losses occurred on the Mi-8 during takeoff and landing at the sites.

                    I didn't understand the rest of your text.
    2. 0
      14 December 2023 16: 03
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      Only auxiliary, precisely because of the ultra-low combat load.

      In our army we have the biggest problems with auxiliaries, I think at the front they wouldn’t refuse such a thing if they were offered
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky

      Forget about these ambushes. They are not feasible in practice.

      It depends on the commander, consider that this drg is like a pair of Carlsons with an anti-tank gun, is there really no one to catch somewhere?

      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      And why the hell is he needed then? Spit three rackets? Well then, it’s better to take the Mi-8MT, which can take 120 of these missiles and throw it 14 km from a nose-up.

      He can brazenly fly with these light aircraft directly to Dnepropetrovsk or Kharkov, after all, it’s a drone, you can take a risk.
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      in fact, the same NAR S-8 with a seeker. With a beche it is much weaker than that of an ATGM.

      Well, it depends on the manufacturer, you can attach a seeker to the base S-8, or to the S-8OFP1, where a 9 kilo warhead was announced
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      How are you going to replace a helicopter with up to 2600 kg of combat load with these flying spermatozoa for which 45 kg of overload is required?

      In general, the VT450 in the advertising booklet carries 100 kilos, why there are so few missiles is a mystery. The question is how much does a pepelats cost, maybe if instead of one Ka-52 20 of these mosquitoes arrive, then the game is worth the candle. In addition, the pepelats can be dragged into a garage a couple of kilometers from the front, and not called from an airfield a hundred kilometers away. And you can also load new missiles within walking distance, rather than having to travel a hundred kilometers
      1. 0
        14 December 2023 19: 03
        In our army we have the biggest problems with auxiliaries, I think at the front they wouldn’t refuse such a thing if they were offered


        No one argues about this; the more weapon options, the better. But there is no need to replace one with the other.

        It depends on the commander, consider that this drg is like a pair of Carlsons with an anti-tank gun, is there really no one to catch somewhere?


        The helicopter can hover for no more than 10 minutes. What to do in this time. So in an ambush it is better to use a portable anti-tank system.

        He can brazenly fly with these light aircraft directly to Dnepropetrovsk or Kharkov, after all, it’s a drone, you can take a risk.


        What is the cost of this complex compared to its impact? Wouldn't it be better to have a combination of reconnaissance and guidance UAVs and HIMARS-type guided missiles?

        Well, it depends on the manufacturer, you can attach a seeker to the base S-8, or to the S-8OFP1, where a 9 kilo warhead was announced


        So he won’t drag one like that.

        In general, the VT450 in the advertising booklet carries 100 kilos, why there are so few missiles is a mystery.


        So sighting equipment also has weight.

        The question is how much does a pepelats cost, maybe if instead of one Ka-52 20 of these mosquitoes arrive, then the game is worth the candle. In addition, the pepelats can be dragged into a garage a couple of kilometers from the front, and not called from an airfield a hundred kilometers away. And you can also load new missiles within walking distance, rather than having to travel a hundred kilometers


        Weak ammunition is also inferior in terms of fire impact.
        1. 0
          14 December 2023 19: 28
          Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
          The helicopter can hover for no more than 10 minutes.

          And what's next? It seems like he has to fly for five hours, and who will stop him from taking a smoke break? If only the signal didn't disappear.
          Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
          So in an ambush it is better to use a portable anti-tank system.

          But what if this ambush is somewhere on the outskirts of Nikolaev? And the fighters are sitting somewhere on the Keansburg Spit in a trailer with an antenna.
          Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
          What is the cost of this complex compared to its impact?

          I think a hundred million or even more, if you storm the fortifications, it’s better, of course, to buy Maviks with resets with this money. If we dare to catch, for example, trains where these pepelats put several anti-tank guns into a diesel locomotive, and then use tornadoes to finish off the stopped train, then it will pay off a million times over.
          Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
          Wouldn't it be better to have a combination of reconnaissance and guidance UAVs and HIMARS-type guided missiles?

          At a great distance, the missile flies for a long time and it can be difficult to aim it. It’s like a Khemars is traveling, we can see it, at what point to launch the rocket, in two minutes the Khemars can stop, go back, turn in one direction or another, and the rocket flies according to coordinates, I don’t think it’s possible to clarify in flight. And if it flies three kilometers to the side, the seeker will not capture it.
          Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
          So he won’t drag one like that.

          How do you know? There will be a difference of 15 kilograms for three missiles, I think the turntable was not made according to critical parameters.
          Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
          So sighting equipment also has weight.

          The original helicopter also has it, and since it flies low, it doesn’t need optics like a bayraktar, the level of an eagle, which weighs a kilogram or two, is enough.
          Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
          Weak ammunition is also inferior in terms of fire impact.

          Well, who wouldn’t have enough of a direct hit? Only the tank will survive. Well, there is a laser target designator, it sees the tank and shines for Krasnopol.

          In general, I think if the helicopter without all this junk is given to volunteers, in a month they will roll out an aircraft repeater, about 12 FPV drones. You can say the 5th generation ATGM, it will be possible to launch from behind the forest, take out fuel storage tanks and other transformers for pennies, and it won’t seem too much if they start pushing a thermal bar into each window
        2. 0
          14 December 2023 19: 40
          It’s interesting that the West also uses unmanned helicopters, but seaborne ones, from modern frigates.
          And not at all with birds, of course.
  14. 0
    14 December 2023 12: 55
    "Termites" are going to the front....
    It’s in vain that everyone forgets that modern drones are, for the most part, remotely controlled vehicles. And they still exist only because proper interaction has not yet been established between the RTR service and the means of destroying ground targets, that is, artillery and aviation. Because all this is remote control, like the air defense radars that interfere with our aviation - these are radio engineering fireflies, which, in theory, should be used to quickly train weapons in real time.
  15. 0
    14 December 2023 18: 24
    For quite some time now, we have been offering a fundamentally new type of propulsion that not only makes the flight quiet, but radically increases the payload and improves absolutely all useful parameters. It has a much smaller radius and is protected from damage.
  16. 0
    14 December 2023 19: 01
    Yab called Hornet.
    Because Thermite is either a composition for burning metal or a “herd woodborer”. Unrespectable.
    But the Hornet is an epic bullshit, it stings so much that it doesn’t seem like much.
  17. -2
    14 December 2023 19: 45
    The article contains a strange phrase: “without exposing yourself to enemy MANPADS.” And how will a MANPADS detect it? It has almost no infrared radiation. The ultraviolet seeker will not capture it due to its small size. Yes, and the UV seeker is only available on advanced Stinger models. He is threatened only by machine guns and ZU-23
    1. +1
      14 December 2023 21: 15
      And how will a MANPADS detect it? It has almost no infrared radiation.

      Why did it happen? It has an internal combustion engine, the photo shows an open muffler sticking out. There is plenty of IR for a modern MANPADS. And not all modern MANPADS are aimed at IR
  18. 0
    14 December 2023 19: 46
    I could pull an “Attack”, or maybe two - it’s not necessary to fill it under the plug every time. 40 liters of fuel is 50 km round trip, more than enough to shoot back and escape.
  19. +1
    14 December 2023 19: 47
    I could pull the “Attack” too - it’s not necessary to fill it under the plug every time. Even 40 liters of fuel is 50 km round trip, more than enough to shoot back and escape.
  20. 0
    14 December 2023 20: 26
    The operating principle is as follows. The Termite lands near the target where important guests from the Ukrainian Armed Forces are expected to arrive in the near future. The site needed is small - only 10 by 10 meters.

    The warhead of the unguided S-8 is 3,6-4 kg. Management will take another 1-1,5 kg from this weight. that is, the warhead will be 2-3 kg. Isn’t it easier to just use a couple of drones for ambushes than to fence off such a city?
  21. +1
    14 December 2023 21: 13
    The Termit drone is useful for testing the use of helicopter-type UAVs. It is clear that for effective use a significantly larger load is needed to accommodate high-quality observation devices and at least a pair of LMURs.
    But it is long and expensive.
    Thermite will allow you to adjust the concept of application and technical specifications for a more powerful machine.

    The same United States, under the RCV unmanned ground platform program, is working on a light and medium armored vehicle.
    The development of an unmanned tank will begin taking into account the experience of two smaller projects.
  22. +1
    14 December 2023 23: 56
    expensive and ineffective drone. The payload for such dimensions is very small. Well, they’ll make about five of them, do some PR, and that’ll be the end of it. Now we need cheap drones and in huge quantities.
  23. 0
    15 December 2023 01: 27
    Regarding the engine, this is our most painful place, not even the electronics. I believe that there is something from the ROTAX family or some kind of clone there, 100 horses is excessive for such a machine, perhaps the same MD 550, or rather its Iranian clone, another variant of the MDR-208 RPD of the same origin. And this is most likely. There were developments in Wankel from VAZ, by the way, a modification of the VAZ 341 was installed on the MI 34
  24. The comment was deleted.
  25. 0
    18 December 2023 18: 33
    I'm skeptical about this super expensive toy. External indicator and target illumination for its missiles - risk both it and Orion, which have already been misplaced once or twice? Three small missiles that will not penetrate a tank in the forehead. This is not Fipivishnik, who quickly flew around and entered the rear of the tank from the rear. What is the resistance to enemy electronic warfare? Real fuel consumption in weather conditions like now?! Freezing? Now the front needs drones like Germanium, but faster and more powerful, cheaper to produce. FPV drones, reconnaissance drones and X-shaped kamikazes. This wunderwaffle is clearly overrated in terms of efficiency and expensive to produce.
  26. 0
    19 December 2023 01: 23
    S-8l, oh, how needed... now... for the Ka-52 and Mi-28. And also Whirlwinds with IR or AGSN. To destroy ukrov columns by destroying 5-6 targets at the same time. And not one at a time, as it is now.
  27. 0
    19 December 2023 07: 32
    Two 120 mm mortar shells will soon be the main load for Termit...
  28. 0
    3 January 2024 05: 43
    Unlike us, the Chinese have their own spare parts and some microelectronics, which is why they are several times cheaper. Tens of thousands can be stamped.
  29. 0
    April 8 2024 13: 49
    Such a UAV will be especially valuable in the fight against enemy FPVs.
    All he needs to do is catch up with the enemy and simply fly over him. Few quadcopters will not somersault if helicopter rotors blow on top of them.