"Rafal", buddy, how are you?

119
"Rafal", buddy, how are you?

Speaking in the previous material about the fate of the MiG-29K, it was impossible to resist looking over the fence to the neighbor. And make sure that the decision to replace the MiG-29K with the Rafal-M was deliberate and justified. And our plane is really “not a cake.”

Legalized madness in the style of a Bollywood series is the only way one could characterize the Indian MMRCA tender. As a result of the tender, India had to buy 126 profitable middle-class fighters. But everything turned out according to the canons of Indian TV series, that is, with secrets, conspiracies, scandals, revelations and even fights. It looks like there was no dancing, but I'm not sure.



As you remember, the nominal winner was Dassault Aviation with its Rafale.


Nominal - because the tender was eventually completed, but it seems that it was not final. That is, it was played, but as it turned out later, the French interpreted the conditions and tasks in a somewhat unique way, and they fulfilled them - just a sight for sore eyes.

Over the course of 10 years, the French delivered eight machines. Simply amazing performance, if you take into account that aircraft of a more complex formation, the Su-30MKI, were delivered two years after the conclusion of the contract.

But the products of the Sukhoi Company did not participate in the tender, the Indians did not like the MiG-35 due to its incompleteness, and a whole campaign of persecution was launched against the MiG-29. There were not many contenders left, and the Indians settled on what seemed to be a fully developed French aircraft.

In general, to be fair, it is worth saying that French aircraft in India also have quite a decent reputation. Back in 1985, 50 Mirage 2000 fighters were purchased for the Indian Air Force, which showed themselves quite worthy in the Kargil War, working together with the MiG-29. Therefore, the purchase of Rafales did not seem so illogical.


There were beautiful presentations, there were promises that the Indian Air Force would become the strongest in the region (and we must remember that India has two rivals/adversaries - Pakistan and China), there was also a terrible scandal.

And it’s okay that a very unpleasant fact has surfaced that the French, having beaten Indian specialists in the contractual field, showed them greatness in terms of technology and localization of aircraft in India. France is not Russia, it was the Russians who sent aircraft kits for assembly to India. The French refused, taking advantage of miscalculations in the treaties. So, unfortunately, I had to give up on “Made in India”. The Indians were offended, especially since the tender specified assembly in India. But alas.

And when the real prices for the Rafali surfaced, which, by the way, is 218 euros ($600) for one aircraft. Approaching his 000th birthday as a model. So, by the way, an “empty” F-239 costs about $500. The Su-000S can be purchased for $35. That is, for the amount of money that India spent on the purchase of 94 Rafales, one could buy 000 Su-000S aircraft or, in theory (because most likely they would not have sold) 35 F-108A aircraft.

It’s okay, someone sawed it off for themselves, right? Hollande himself put out the scandal... But now a criminal case has been opened again, they are looking for the culprits, and the Indian pilots did not greet the “new product” very warmly. Statements from Indian pilots began to appear that the Rafales were a bit old, slow and not maneuverable enough. But the Indians had to endure not only this, because the penalty for refusing the contract was truly astronomical.

What finished off the Indian military was that the Rafales in the Indian Air Force were faced with the problem of refueling in the air. And in order to solve these problems, it is necessary to purchase “only” six A-330MRTT air tankers. That is, plus some one and a half billion dollars to the already existing eight and a half. And the planes also need French weapons, which are also not the cheapest in the world.

Great business, isn't it? The Indian Rafale is simply a magnificent machine, it is equipped with almost everything that an ideal aircraft requires and therefore is exactly twice as expensive as the same Rafale for Egypt or Qatar. Which are the same, but not ideal. They don't dance.


And if we add modifications, repair kits and everything else here - in general, the Indians hit the mark in full. This is even cooler than all the calls “from the Central Bank security service.” Three billion euros, which is exactly the figure of “kickbacks” that the Indian opposition calls, are being sought by the security forces of the two countries, but something tells us that the money has already been... spent.

But let's get back to the planes.


Maybe, while gloating so much, I am wrong in my conclusions, and the Rafale is not such a bad plane? Considering that the MiG-29K cannot be called the newest?

But we must also take into account the outright persecution of everything Russian weapons, which over the past decade has been organized in the Indian media by certain forces that are clearly opposed to Rosoboronexport. And there was bullying. MiG-29, Su-30MKI, T-90M - literally everything suddenly stopped being liked by the Indian military. Refusal of joint work on a fifth-generation fighter, which also disappointed the Indians, refusal to develop missile weapons...

And this is the ending. But let's look at airplanes, maybe we are all really wrong about something? Maybe the first Rafale squadron was in vain called “platinum” due to the cost of the aircraft?

On deck...

Development


It is difficult to clearly determine the “date of birth” of the MiG-29K, because work began in 1984, the first flight of the MiG-29K took place in 1988, but the first flight of the MiG-29KUB was only in 2007. Considering that in 2004 India, without which the birth of the MiG-29K would not have occurred, signed a contract for the development and supply of 16 carrier-based fighters (4 MiG-29KUB, 12 MiG-29K), then it is quite possible to consider 2007 as the year of birth, when The MiG-29KUB flew and production of the MiG-29K began.

The Rafale first took to the air in 1986 (land version A), and the Rafale M itself took off in 1991.

Both aircraft are modifications of land aircraft to meet the requirements of the carrier-based aircraft. aviation by strengthening the structure, upgrading the landing gear and adding a landing hook. The MiG-29K has folding wings, the Rafale does not have this.

Avionics


The MiG-29K is equipped with three multifunctional color liquid crystal displays (there are seven displays on the two-seat MiG-29KUB), a four-channel digital fly-by-wire flight control system, an anti-radar missile homing system, a helmet-mounted weapons guidance system and electronic countermeasures. In addition, the on-board oxygen generation system eliminates the need for oxygen tanks.

"Rafal" has an equally effective control system under the guidance of a central computer, the EDSU is also four-channel (three main and one backup), three displays, a direct voice input (DVI) system, and a holographic projection system (HUD).

Radars and sensors


The MiG-29K was developed with the Zhuk-ME radar; the Indian order includes the Zhuk-ME FGM129, with a slot antenna array. The radar “can” operate in target tracking and terrain mapping mode. Can track up to 10 targets while simultaneously firing at 4 of them. Operating range up to 300 km against a destroyer-type target, scanning area +/- 85 degrees in azimuth and +56/-40 in elevation. The MiG-29K can be equipped with an IRST system integrated with both optical and laser systems, which can provide target designation against ground and air targets at a distance of up to 15 km with a 360-degree all-round visibility. IRST can also provide missile flight correction at close combat ranges.

The Rafale is equipped with a Thales RBE2 multi-mode electronically scanned radar (ESAR). The modification of the F3 family aircraft should receive radar and AFAR, which will have a positive effect on the combat capabilities of the aircraft. The radar is capable of generating real-time XNUMXD maps for terrain following and real-time high-resolution ground maps for navigation and targeting. An additional container with PDLCT-TV navigation television equipment and FLIR thermal imaging equipment can be suspended under the aircraft fuselage.

Engines


The MiG-29K has two RD-33MK engines with a maximum thrust of 5400 kgf, in afterburner 8000 kgf and in takeoff mode 9000 kgf. Maximum speed at altitude: 2200 km/h (M=2,1), at the ground: 1400 km/h (M=1,17). Climbing rate 18 m/min. (000 m/s). Service ceiling: 300 m
Combat radius:
- without PTB - 850 km
- with 1 PTB - 1050 km
- with 3 PTB - 1300 km

The Rafale is equipped with Snecma M88-2E4 engines capable of providing a maximum thrust of 5100 kgf and 7500 kgf with afterburner. Maximum speed at an altitude of 1900 km/h (M=1,7), at the ground 1350 km/h, rate of climb 18300 m/min (305 m/s), service ceiling 15 m.
Combat radius with three PTBs is 1300 km.

weaponry


The MiG-29K has a 30 mm GSh-30-1 cannon at the root of the left wing with 150 rounds of ammunition. A fairly wide range of weapons with a total mass of 5 kg on 500 hardpoints includes laser and television-guided bombs, in addition to conventional free-fall bombs. Air-to-surface missiles are represented by the Kh-9, Kh-25T, Kh-29, Kh-31U families. For air combat, air-to-air missiles of the RVV-AE, R-35ER/ET and R-27E types are used. In general, the MiG-73 uses almost the entire range of Russian-made aviation weapons, and can also carry imported products on board.

Rafales are capable of performing a variety of missions with weapons weighing a total of 9 kg on 500 hardpoints: air defense and superiority missions using Mica IR and EM air-to-air missiles, precision ground attacks, typically with using SCALP EG cruise missiles and AASM Hammer air-to-surface weapons, fighting ships with the AM13 Exocet anti-ship missile.
In addition to missiles, the Rafale can be equipped with a range of laser-guided bombs to attack ground targets. All versions of the aircraft also carry a 30 mm GIAT 30 DEFA cannon with 125 rounds of ammunition.


The picture is peculiar. Do you see two planes here, one of which has an unconditional advantage over the other? So I don’t see it. Considering that the maximum take-off weight of both aircraft is the same, 24 kg, the MiG-500K is clearly a little faster and flies higher if necessary. And the Rafale has a (large) advantage in the amount of cargo on external slings.

At the same time, the amount of composite materials in aircraft structures is approximately the same, but in terms of thermal insulation of engines, the MiG-29K is considered one of the best in the world. That is, they are also approximately equal.

Of course, if you install an AFAR radar on the Rafale, it will have a decent advantage, but the question is, will India get such a modification (most likely not)?

In general, these are two aircraft that are equal in terms of performance characteristics and capabilities. And everything would be fine, even if the Rafale has certain advantages, but the price... Still, 240 million and 40 million dollars is just an insane difference. That is, for the price of two Rafales, we get a whole full-fledged MiG-29K squadron.

That case when the irrepressible desire to earn money ruined everything.

What can we say to summarize? Well, it’s clear that the best way for Indians to equip the Air Force and Navy is to buy Russian stuff. But you can’t make as much money with us as with the French. But we won’t “get away” like the representatives of this country.


In general, the Indians turned out beautifully. Direct purchase outside the tender of 36 Rafale M will give three full-fledged squadrons or two squadrons on board an aircraft carrier and one in reserve, because the Indians have learned how to hit aircraft on the deck, but not so much how to repair them. Moreover, French planes. The whole nuance here is precisely that the Mirages that fought in the Indian Air Force were not used on the deck of an aircraft carrier, which is why they served for quite a long time.

So India seems to be saving face as one of the world’s largest arms buyers, while investigations into the stolen billions of euros (including in France) continue, everything will gradually calm down. And the 36 Rafales purchased will be some kind of compensation to France for the 90 not purchased.

But here’s another problem right at hand: India has withdrawn the MiG-27ML from service. The MiG-23 was filmed even earlier. The MiG-21 is also going to be retired. And here the Indian Air Force’s plans to have 44 aviation squadrons instead of today’s 34 do not seem very meaningful.


Also, this purchase of 36 aircraft directly contradicts the Make in India strategy proclaimed by the new Prime Minister of India Modi, Rafales will never be assembled in India, France broke it off quite clearly.

But three squadrons of “platinum” aircraft are not a solution. These are three squadrons of aircraft that simply cannot be allowed anywhere beyond a parade once a year. And even more so, crashing as hard as you can onto the deck of an aircraft carrier. It's not profitable.

"Rafal", buddy, how are you? Boring? But those who made money from you are still having a lot of fun.


In general, there is one place where all this nonsense and scandal-mongering comes into play in full. That's right, this is Russia. The collapse and scandal over the cancellation of the MMRCA tender improves Russia’s position in working with India.

After all, the purchase of Rafales does not at all solve the issues of loading the capacity of the state aircraft concern HAL with work. Today, HAL factories are busy assembling the Su-30MKI, but there are no more than three dozen of them left, after which - stop. There will be nothing to collect. That is, if active steps are not taken, the assembly lines will stop working in a couple of years.

But with the money that Indian corrupt officials stole from the budget at the tender, it would have been easy to complete the fifth-generation fighter project, from which India withdrew at one time. And produce modern aircraft in the quantities that will be needed by the Indian military.

So it would be worth considering the issue of buying another 40-50 of the same Su-30MKI from Russia and thereby plugging the hole that is formed after the departure of the MiG-21 and the non-arrival of 90 Rafales. And these new machines will be built based on the modernization of the Su-30MKI2, or as it is also called “Sukhoi Super”. And at the same time think about the FGFA fifth-generation fighter production program.

Rafale at this cost is a direct killer of the FGFA project. Today it is already quite reliably known that the campaign in the Indian press against the FGFA was initiated and financed precisely by the French. Now the Indians have found a compromise that, frankly, does not satisfy either the French or us. What does this mean? This suggests that it is a good compromise: buy some Rafales and leave the FGFA issue open, that is, try to work in both directions. It's possible.

Likewise, it turned out to be quite possible to order another 45 MiG-29K. We need not only planes on which fortunes are made, but also planes that can fight.

Does Russia have a chance to return to full cooperation? Of course have. And the further the vampires in the form of Rafale aircraft devastate the Indian military budget, the greater the chance that the MiG-29K, which so far has no alternative as a weapon for the Vikramaditya, will be a good alternative for the Vikrant. It’s not even worth talking about the Su-30MKI, which has taken root in the Indian Air Force for many years.

And it is quite possible to return to the conversation about the MiG-35. Yes, today it is not customary to buy aircraft that are not mass-produced, but at one time the MiG-29K had the same status, which would not have become an aircraft if not for the contract with India.

In general, the MMRCA tender will include history, as not only the longest, but also the most scandalous process in the history of aviation. And the most corrupt, because they stole there at the level of two states.

The money spent on the Rafale, a model from the early 30s, would be more than enough to complete the joint FGFA program with Russia, or invest in another joint project, as was the case with the Su-XNUMXMKI fighter. As a result, the Indians will receive three squadrons of good, but expensive and quickly becoming obsolete Rafales, which, moreover, are simply scary to release into battle.

In general, it is possible that the Rafale will be the phenomenon that will return Russian-Indian military cooperation to its previous course. In general, sometimes it’s not bad to run head-on into a pole like that, and with the cheerful crackle of sparks, reboot the relationship, realizing that everything is not so bad with Russian technology, and especially with the conditions and price.
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  1. +5
    6 December 2023 04: 15
    Rafales are capable of performing a variety of missions with weapons weighing a total of 9 kg on 500 hardpoints: air defense and superiority missions using Mica IR and EM air-to-air missiles, precision ground attacks, typically with using SCALP EG cruise missiles and AASM Hammer air-to-surface weapons, fighting ships with an anti-ship missile


    And "Meteor", Roman? Yes
    What about ASMP? hi
    1. +15
      6 December 2023 05: 10
      "Rafal", buddy, how are you?
      "Hello MiG friend! Yes, everything is better than you!"
      1. +14
        6 December 2023 06: 20
        I’m interested in the opinion of the downvoters, is MiG thriving here? a sea of ​​orders? explain yourself.
        1. -3
          6 December 2023 06: 50
          They can’t explain, it’s an impulse of the soul hi laughing Looks like the "braces" have been touched.
          1. 0
            6 December 2023 08: 21
            ABOUT! And they came running to me, there are no explanations either, there are disadvantages laughing
        2. +1
          6 December 2023 07: 18
          They cry.... And press the button...
        3. +21
          6 December 2023 09: 00
          Quote: Aerodrome
          I’m interested in the opinion of the downvoters, is MiG thriving here? a sea of ​​orders? explain yourself.

          About the MiG I can only say one thing, that it cannot die dead... and the MiG has been dead for 20 years already... when MMRCA was just starting, I remember watching a program on NTV, they say the MiG-35 is better than everyone else, flies faster, shoots further, but in theory ... there is only a layout and a desire to develop a project, when all the other “competitors” were quite capable of flying and working... I don’t really understand Roman’s latest articles, what’s the message? That it was not we who lost the Indian market, but they fools who left us? So this is not so... in the 90s, when the former Soviet military-industrial complex chest opened up to the arms market in all its glory, India actually saved both UVZ and Sukhoi with its orders, and with the allocation of money for development... yes, cars with good characteristics were sold a very affordable price, but we managed to save the enterprises and carry out new developments... on such conditions, it is possible that until now the majority of the Indian market was ours, but a number of problems arose - we decided that they wanted to receive no less than competitors for their products (quite logical), the development must still be paid for by the customer (MiG-35, let’s remember the Indian version of the PAK FA), but no one guarantees the timing and quality of implementation... I won’t ask a rhetorical question, how many Su-57s have entered service in almost a quarter of a century “ development and production program, but is everything in it as planned? What would India get today by remaining in the project?... How many “Armata”, “Kurgan”, “coalitions”, etc. are in service since the moment they rolled out onto Red Square?... Let’s just say that India is not on the same path with Russia in military-political terms , they are not really able to provide themselves with modern weapons, well, given the reasonable quality of the products, it turns out that the choice is not particularly great - go to Western partners and hope to get help from them... perhaps not the best products in the world, not the best cheap, but working, and they themselves know how to shift deadlines to the right and keep dancing with promises (they already have their own tank, and plane, and helicopter and machine gun, but in the event of a showdown with China they will not be very helpful)...
          PS: to be honest, I don’t understand the Indians at all with their procurement policy and Air Force development strategy... they already have a “heavy” 4th generation aircraft (Su-30), they are trying to replace the “medium” MiG-27 3rd generation (well, apparently MiG-29) for the “average” French 4th generation... and at the same time they are trying to replace the “light” MiG-21 3rd generation (although what the “bisons” from the MiG-21 and 3rd generation have is a big question) for their own “ light" Tejas 4th generation... the result is bingo - the Indian Air Force will have light, medium and heavy vehicles at once... in my opinion, no one in the world has ever assembled something like this...
          1. +9
            6 December 2023 12: 23
            Quote: parma
            It wasn’t we who lost the Indian market, but they fools who left us? So this is not so... in the 90s, when the former Soviet military-industrial complex chest opened up to the arms market in all its glory, India actually saved both UVZ and Sukhoi with its orders, and with the allocation of money for development...
            There are a couple more nuances that the author did not remember: in the wake of successful cooperation, he was instantly so sure that 126 cars were in his pocket that he didn’t even bother to present a living car at an exhibition in Bangalore: the French are theirs magic step unscrewed very competently. The story of kickbacks haunts all transactions with Indians: the missing tranche for 29k is probably still being sought..., if I’m not mistaken, it disappeared in twenty lyams...
          2. +3
            6 December 2023 23: 08
            Quote: parma
            India actually saved both UVZ and Sukhoi with its orders, and with the allocation of money for development...

            What’s paradoxical is that India’s GDP in dollars has not been much larger than Russia’s for quite some time, and somehow they found money to purchase weapons. The Indian space program is less expensive than the Russian one, but for some reason the Indian results are better visible
            1. +1
              7 December 2023 07: 41
              Quote from alexoff
              Quote: parma
              India actually saved both UVZ and Sukhoi with its orders, and with the allocation of money for development...

              What’s paradoxical is that India’s GDP in dollars has not been much larger than Russia’s for quite some time, and somehow they found money to purchase weapons. The Indian space program is less expensive than the Russian one, but for some reason the Indian results are better visible

              Well, how can I say, not much more... if we take the data for 2019, then 2,83 trillion versus 1.61, if for 2021, then 3,17 and 2,22 trillion, and this is the nominal value, in terms of purchasing power it is even worse (but also in terms of GDP PPP is complacency for the poor, and in the literal sense)... you can also take the size of the budget, but there the gap is even more serious...
              PS: this is not an attempt to justify the current situation, but India simply has more economic resources... they actually only have enough technology
              1. +1
                7 December 2023 13: 49
                Foreign weapons are not purchased according to PPP. In addition, the RF Armed Forces are usually purchased at half the price of foreign buyers. And if the Indians have one and a half times more dollars (considering their population) and they bought 2 thousand T90, and we had 2014 times less in the period 22-10, then big questions arise.
                1. 0
                  7 December 2023 14: 40
                  Quote from alexoff
                  Foreign weapons are not purchased according to PPP. In addition, the RF Armed Forces are usually purchased at half the price of foreign buyers. And if the Indians have one and a half times more dollars (considering their population) and they bought 2 thousand T90, and we had 2014 times less in the period 22-10, then big questions arise.

                  I’ll tell you this, regarding the real prices for Russian military-industrial complex products for the domestic market - look how much the state writes off all sorts of debts to military-industrial complex enterprises... in 2019 alone, one way or another, factories received relief from debts worth 700 billion rubles... even if these are all debts (and this is not so), even if we calculate at today’s exchange rate - this is more than 7 billion dollars... and these are not debts originally from the 90s, these are quite recent loans...
                  1. +1
                    7 December 2023 14: 47
                    As far as I remember, these debts appeared because someone said in 2015 that the defense needed to tighten its belts at a time when the United States was imposing sanctions on this defense so that there would be no exports. Kalashnikov lived off the vortices only; the rest of his products were not needed, but his employees were kept, and they had to be paid something. I think some Pella could tell you how the Ministry of Defense has worked in recent years.
          3. 0
            8 December 2023 00: 44
            Yes, everything is fine in an instant, many times better than the Rafale with 175 pieces assembled in 30 years. So don't whine. Unlike all manufacturers, MIG is doing no worse.
        4. +2
          8 December 2023 10: 35
          The author of the article clearly stated that foreign customers do not purchase aircraft that are not in mass production. Our Min. arr. For the Air Force/VKS, they purchased mainly Sukhoi aircraft, this was done for objective reasons. Now at RSK MiG, work on the MiG-35 is in full swing, in connection with the SVO, money has been found, there will be a series of foreign orders. Every problem that arises has a cause-and-effect relationship, you need to understand them and draw conclusions from the result, or do as you do, whining on these Internets of yours, tapping your claws on the keyboard.
          ps And by the way, I didn’t put any pros or cons under your comments.
          1. +1
            10 December 2023 19: 44
            Quote from Woroshilow
            Every problem that arises has a cause-and-effect relationship, you need to understand them and draw conclusions from the result
            This is a good approach. Yes And, as Stalin liked to repeat, every problem has other parameters.
      2. +1
        6 December 2023 07: 03
        Yes. Rafale flies and fights, including from an aircraft carrier.
        The vehicle was initially developed as both a land and deck vehicle.
        1. +3
          6 December 2023 12: 25
          Quote: Maxim G
          Yes. Rafale flies and fights.
          .., but not quite as advertised: even the French complain - they don’t hang on to it, as in the booklet
          1. 0
            6 December 2023 12: 37
            To whom and where do the French complain about him?
            1. +1
              7 December 2023 10: 40
              I was talking... it’s not quite as advertised, although the machine is no doubt working
        2. +2
          6 December 2023 12: 59
          Where and with whom is he fighting, tell me?
          1. -7
            6 December 2023 13: 14
            Get well soon, I'll tell you. Yes
            1. +5
              6 December 2023 13: 31
              So now I’m of sober mind and bright memory. While I’m in bed, I’ll try in the future so that I’m free to read and discuss for another week
        3. 0
          11 December 2023 00: 52
          I’m embarrassed to ask - who is he fighting with?))))
      3. +1
        8 December 2023 00: 41
        You're kidding, 29 MiG50k were delivered to India, and only 175 Rafaels were built. This is very bad for the Rafale
    2. +6
      6 December 2023 12: 05
      What about ASMP?

      The Indians will not be given ASMP; this missile is designed for nuclear deterrence and carries a nuclear warhead.
      1. -2
        6 December 2023 12: 08
        Look deeper.
        India can develop its own analogue of the ASMP and use this aircraft as part of its strategic nuclear forces.
        1. +3
          6 December 2023 12: 13
          They already have an analogue - the Bramos missile, but it is too big for the Rafale. A more compact Bramos-NG is on the way. The Rafal will most likely pull it
          1. 0
            6 December 2023 13: 21
            Let's see what happens to India, especially since the main enemy is nearby. This reduces the requirements for the combat radius of the carrier aircraft.
            1. 0
              9 December 2023 04: 13
              Quote: Maxim G
              Let's see what happens in India

              You will get what has always worked best - dancing.
              It is unlikely that Rafales will be installed on an aircraft carrier, because with such harsh exploitation they will be beaten to the dogs. This means they will use the Chinese J-20 against AFAR and Meteor (if they give/will give it).
              And for the aircraft carrier, having danced for the sake of decency, they will most likely choose the MiG-29K\KUB and ask for it to be equipped with avionics from the MiG-35. But this decision will most likely be postponed until the end of the SVO. That is, they have another year and a half to dance.
              And for the MiG, as strange as it may seem to you, everything is getting better. Tests of the MiG-35-S\SM are coming to an end (updated avionics), and the production lines... okay, you’ll see everything for yourself. And there are already enough orders. And how the series goes... it will be even better.

              And the new owners of the Rafale will soon be in for a great bummer. And disappointments.
              Because you still have to count the money, the cost of maintenance, spare parts, and weapons. And not just bribes in your pocket.
  2. +7
    6 December 2023 04: 16
    Dassault still dreamed of selling Rafali to Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan. The Kazakhs were very surprised by this information because They have a Su30 in their plan. We haven’t heard anything about Uzbekistan yet, but the country’s leadership is very pragmatic and for friendship with Russia, here there is a future nuclear power plant and gas supplies and 3000 (three!) joint ventures in Uzbekistan and labor with billions of dollars in transfers from Russia!¿
    1. +30
      6 December 2023 04: 21
      Quote: andrewkor
      The associate still dreamed of Rafali trying to sell Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan. The Kazakhs were very surprised by this information because They have a Su30 in their plans.

      The Kazakh government has been behaving strangely lately. And depending on how Pashinyan changed his shoes... anything can happen with Kazakhstan...
      1. +5
        6 December 2023 07: 38
        It seems. the guest patted Tokayev on the shoulder for the wrong reason - the Kazakh has money
        By the way, how do you say “rollback” in Hindi?
        1. +2
          6 December 2023 09: 35
          Quote: Very old
          By the way, how do you say “rollback” in Hindi?

          Or maybe let them dance the kickback? what
      2. 0
        11 December 2023 00: 54
        It doesn’t matter what Tokayev says, what matters is what he does.
    2. +1
      14 December 2023 03: 50
      That did not stop the late President Karimov from playing tricks with the United States until they organized a “revolution” for him in Namangan... A new liberal Uzbek will come, who studied in the United States and will lead under the strict control of the “white people.”
  3. +7
    6 December 2023 04: 21
    Considering that the maximum take-off weight of both aircraft is the same, 24 kg, the MiG-500K is clearly a little faster and flies higher if necessary.
    THEY FORGOT ABOUT LANDING... in the last article, the almost total destruction of the MiG, the engines (it was written) were removed after each landing. you will decide who is better. my personal opinion is that we have lost the developing competencies in naval carrier-based aviation, and in the foreseeable future they will not exist. some kind of alternative is needed. but somehow she’s not visible.
    1. +3
      6 December 2023 07: 04
      Quote: Aerodrome
      we have lost the developing competencies in naval carrier-based aviation, and in the foreseeable future they will not exist.

      Everything related to the fleet has been an unsolved problem since Peter the Great.
      1. +10
        6 December 2023 08: 29
        Quote: carpenter
        Everything related to the fleet has been an unsolved problem since Peter the Great

        Yes, it seems that by the beginning of the 80s the problem was solved and our fleet became an ocean fleet. But then came perestroika, then Alkash’s reforms, and everything returned again to the times of Peter I
        1. +6
          6 December 2023 08: 46
          Quote: Dutchman Michel
          Yes, it seems that by the beginning of the 80s the problem was solved and our fleet became an ocean fleet. But then came perestroika

          That’s why “perestroika” was carried out, and then collapsed.
    2. 0
      6 December 2023 10: 44
      Quote: Aerodrome
      Considering that the maximum take-off weight of both aircraft is the same, 24 kg, the MiG-500K is clearly a little faster and flies higher if necessary.
      THEY FORGOT ABOUT LANDING... in the last article, the almost total destruction of the MiG, the engines (it was written) were removed after each landing. you will decide who is better. my personal opinion is that we have lost the developing competencies in naval carrier-based aviation, and in the foreseeable future they will not exist. some kind of alternative is needed. but somehow she’s not visible.

      I mean, it’s not visible? And who flew from Kuznetsov? The Su is fully developed, there are drawings. Maybe for a moment it was an unfinished aircraft in terms of strength and layout? To test the machine, it’s enough to have a ground simulator, of which there are two in Russia. A prototype is being built and tested. Well, maybe it’s the Indians’ style of planting.
    3. +2
      9 December 2023 04: 56
      Quote: Aerodrome
      in the last article, the almost total destruction of the MiG, the engines (it was written) were removed after each landing.

      The Indians need to practice landing more carefully, they will smash any deck crew on the deck. In the USA, deck-based F-18s also live 2 - 2,5 times shorter than their land-based counterparts. Conditions and mode of operation impose their own.
      Quote: Aerodrome
      we have lost the developing competencies in naval carrier-based aviation, and in the foreseeable future they will not exist.

      I think your personal opinion is wrong. Next year, "Admiral Kuznetsov" will come out of repair and modernization, will return to service, and competencies in carrier-based aviation will, by definition, continue and develop.
      Quote: Aerodrome
      some kind of alternative is needed.

      It exists and will definitely exist. And it is not new for us.
      This is a VTOL aircraft.
      The new R-579V-300 engine successfully passed a cycle of bench tests and showed a thrust at afterburner of 23 kg.s. Its non-afterburning maximum should have been “at least 000 kg.s.” , but there is no exact data. The weight and dimensions of this engine correspond to those of the F-14. The head of the UAC (and not only him) has stated more than once that work on VTOL aircraft at the Yakovlev Design Bureau is underway, but without details.
      Media for them?
      And for whom/what are two UDCs of this size being built in Kerch? With a displacement of at least 40 tons? Like our good old Krechety.
      Judging by the characteristics of the engine and the mandatory consideration of all the shortcomings of the American F-35B, the developments of the Yak-90 back in the 201s and... taking the Su-75 airframe as a basis (why not?), such a VTOL aircraft will have VERY good LTH. If the Yak-41 had approximately the same combat radius as the F-18, approximately the same maneuverability of the MiG-29 (and therefore better than the Hornet), the same radar, avionics quality and weapons as the MiG-29... then what? will it be possible to talk about a VTOL aircraft with airframe characteristics better than those of the F-35B, radar and avionics from the Su-57 and an engine 20% more powerful than the F-35?
      Think about it.
  4. +21
    6 December 2023 04: 56
    No matter how much you say halva, it will not become sweeter in your mouth. You can tell as much as you like how good the Mig-35 or Mig_29K is and how it is not inferior to Rafal and how insidious Indians are who do not understand their happiness, this will not change the reality. They take Rafales even for a lot of money, they don’t take new planes of the Mig-29 family even for small ones.
    Then the article is simply riddled with various errors. All Rafales for India have AFAR (and in general the difference in avionics between Rafale and Mig-29K is very large), not 8, but all 36 aircraft were delivered, and so on.
    Fantasies that India, having been burned by Rafales, will again begin to buy ours are also unfounded. For the Navy, they purchase the same Rafales in the amount of 26 pieces. (they won against the F-18), but in the future they want to make their own fighter. The Air Force is purchasing its Tejas, dreaming of an F-35, and at a minimum wants to produce F-16 block 70 in Bangalore. This is not to mention the political risks of arms purchases in the Russian Federation.
    The fact is, we are hopelessly late with the modernization of the Mig-29. Does the Mig-29 K have export potential as a whole? No. The Mig-29M has it (and in the simple version without AFAR it is even larger), but not to India.
    1. +6
      6 December 2023 06: 51
      Well, considering how Roma Skomorokh is an “expert” in all areas, who gradually turned into a jingoist a la Ryabov, there is nothing surprising in the number of mistakes and lies.
    2. 0
      6 December 2023 11: 42
      We are hopelessly late with the modernization of the Mig-29

      there is a backlog for modernization and it is huge and there is room for improvement
      there is a ready-made MiG-35 fighter
      how to make 4+++ out of any 4++ generation aircraft
      the result is practically a 5th generation aircraft, only more budget-friendly
      very simple:
      1. replace avionics
      2. change phased radars to AFAR
      3. hanging reconnaissance containers Sych
      4. reduce EPR:
      - the operating mode of the air intake flaps (AIR) EPR is reduced by 80%
      - remove weapons in KMSU, reduce EPR by 20%
      EPR MiG-29 = 5 sq.m. but it can be reduced to 0,1 sq.m.
      when flying at 20 km, it will reduce the detection range from 350 km to 100 km
      when flying at 500 meters, the detection range will drop from 60 km to 20 km - which makes it possible to use KABs
      see EPR MiG-35 = 0,7 sq.m. - a lot of things were implemented there besides weapons at KMSU
      1. +1
        9 December 2023 05: 30
        Quote: Romario_Argo
        the result is practically a 5th generation aircraft, only more budget-friendly

        This option was proposed for the UAE - to develop it on the basis of the MiG-29M\35S airframe. Engines with the same weight and dimensions should be increased to 11 kg.p. afterburner. Give the glider STEALTH contours (a la a smaller version of the Su-000), break up the fins, change the shape of the air intakes similar to those of the Su-57, and the internal weapons bay. And it could turn out to be a very good 57th generation middle-class fighter. Including the deck version.
        The trouble is that the MiG did not have money for development - the state refused to finance it, and finding a foreign customer to pay for the development cost... this is a problem and risks for the investor. Although it is precisely such a 5th generation MFI on the market that could be the most interesting offer for countries for which heavy fighters are redundant, but quality and the prospect of being in trend and at the peak of excellence for many years are necessary.
        But for the Russian Federation now in the future there is a Su-75 LFMI with one engine and unification with the Su-57. So for the MiG-35S, the prospect for today in the VKS is to become a transitional model in the LFMI category (even though it is a middle class), and occupy this niche for 15 years, until the Su-75, brought to perfection, goes into production and fills the shelves of the VKS in the light fighter category.
        But at the same time, the MiG-35S right now is an excellent option not only for the formation of new airborne forces regiments, but also for supplies to our allies and current partners, and immediately in sufficient quantities. Because the airframe has been worked out to perfection, the production lines are ready for production, all cooperation chains are available, worked out and awaiting orders. And the radar with AFAR is successfully completing tests as part of the MiG-35S avionics.
    3. +6
      6 December 2023 17: 27
      You forgot the economic aspect. We supply oil to India in exchange for paper, we give it as a gift. And they sell it at the world price and buy the Rafale for nothing at a high price...
    4. 0
      11 December 2023 00: 57
      For now, they are not buying anything. This has been officially announced, but in the previous agreement, too, one thing was officially declared, but in the end it turned out to be something completely different))) so let’s not rush.
  5. +3
    6 December 2023 05: 35
    It’s strange, considering how they know how to use our budgetary funds, buttering up everyone they can, they managed to screw up in India.
    1. +10
      6 December 2023 06: 12
      So in the article it’s just about the fact that they were covered up there in a way that ours could not even dream of.
      1. -5
        6 December 2023 09: 07
        Well, they buttered it up, they snatched it up at 6 times the price, then what? The French lost the client for a very long time, if not forever, the Indians simply won’t buy anything from them anymore, remembering this scam, and it doesn’t even matter how many kickbacks the French paid to the Indian generals and government functionaries, the Indians will forget about this in a certain number of years, but about no discounts from the French
        1. +5
          6 December 2023 13: 59
          Why do you conclude that you have lost a client? The people making the decisions clearly have a stake, they probably liked it, so they will calmly continue. They will imprison a couple of switchmen and will calmly continue to organize similar tenders.
  6. +6
    6 December 2023 05: 50
    The article is not about that, the essence of the matter is this: officials in India wanted to get baksheesh; the French gave it to them. Further: if I were Rosoboron Export, I would swear off dealing with the Indians: simply because they have proven themselves to be unreliable partners; and in the end, we ourselves need the planes, we have an air defense system. Let them invest in the S-75.
    1. +4
      6 December 2023 08: 32
      Quote: Ezekiel 25-17
      If I were Rosoboron Export, I would swear off dealing with Indians

      The Indian market is too capacious, it’s a pity to leave this
    2. -1
      6 December 2023 10: 51
      Quote: Ezekiel 25-17
      The article is not about that, the essence of the matter is this: officials in India wanted to get baksheesh; the French gave it to them. Further: if I were Rosoboron Export, I would swear off dealing with the Indians: simply because they have proven themselves to be unreliable partners; and in the end, we ourselves need the planes, we have an air defense system. Let them invest in the S-75.

      Is this why they have shown themselves to be unreliable? They promised to buy it instantly? Besides everything else, Russia has big problems with warranty and post-warranty maintenance of equipment. In short, whoever pays calls the tune
  7. +3
    6 December 2023 06: 01
    A wonderful story about how there is NO CORRUPTION in Europe and in France in particular!
  8. +9
    6 December 2023 06: 06
    Some strange set of words. Like, it TURNS OUT that French missiles need to be mounted on French planes. And on Mig29, are they hanging something from the Americans?
    1. +2
      6 December 2023 13: 09
      Yes, American: prr Harm and MALD imitators and Zhdam bombs are dill. The Algerian Su30 uses the Amer GBU, the French have the same ones, only they have a different name
  9. Eug
    +4
    6 December 2023 06: 57
    As for me, it is now important for Russia not to miss out on the modernization of the Su-30MKI and to participate in it at least on an equal basis with HAL, and better yet as a general contractor. I don’t think the MiG-29-35 has a chance; the States will kill it.
  10. +16
    6 December 2023 07: 03
    . Still, 240 million and 40 million dollars is just an insane difference.

    The French were able to sell for 240 million what the Russian managers could not sell for 40 million. Why do they get paid there??

    When our president was asked about this (about the indecently huge salaries of top executives and VIPs), he replied that this was so that our strong officials sitting in responsible places would not be lured abroad by some Frenchmen. But looking at the results of the work of our fastening managers, it seems to me that they would not have been hired abroad for free!

    Or not? Or will our golden Chubais settle down just as brilliantly abroad and be happy there too (“we have a very
    a lot of money!"), cut billions?
    1. +9
      6 December 2023 07: 24
      Oh, if only they could get a job there, somewhere at Boeing or Rheinmetall, and Nabiullina at the IMF, maybe the economy would work differently, both ours and the adversary’s wassat
    2. +7
      6 December 2023 09: 30
      I was also interested in looking at those who need these managers. Moreover, for the money that they are paid from us.
    3. +6
      6 December 2023 10: 58
      Quote: Stas157
      . Still, 240 million and 40 million dollars is just an insane difference.

      The French were able to sell for 240 million what the Russian managers could not sell for 40 million. Why do they get paid there??

      When our president was asked about this (about the indecently huge salaries of top executives and VIPs), he replied that this was so that our strong officials sitting in responsible places would not be lured abroad by some Frenchmen. But looking at the results of the work of our fastening managers, it seems to me that they would not have been hired abroad for free!

      Or not? Or will our golden Chubais settle down just as brilliantly abroad and be happy there too (“we have a very
      a lot of money!"), cut billions?

      The French managers did an excellent job. They sold the goods and did not transfer the technology. It was our Gazprom that constantly incurred some kind of penalties and fines
    4. +1
      9 December 2023 05: 44
      Quote: Stas157
      Looking at the results of the work of our fastening managers, it seems to me that they would not have been hired abroad for free!

      You don’t understand, they were TAKEN a long time ago. Moreover, receiving large salaries from our president, they conscientiously occupy their seats and do not run to the west, but receiving... from the other side, they DEFINITELY DO NOTHING. And this satisfies the requirements of both employers.
      Quote: Stas157
      ("we have very
      much money!")

      Yes And how could it be otherwise? feel
  11. +11
    6 December 2023 07: 17
    In the absence of prospects for the aircraft in our own troops, who needs it abroad?
  12. +1
    6 December 2023 07: 41
    The author, the Indian Air Force is supplied with F3-Rs with AFAR.
    And F4 in the future,
    Yes, the cost is astronomical. Corruption.

    You need to forget about the MiG-35, and even more so about the MiG-29K - nothing can be done there, and concentrate on modernizing the Su-30MKI.
    1. 0
      11 December 2023 00: 58
      Where does this information come from? Did you disassemble that Rafale yourself or did you read it on the Internet?)))
  13. +4
    6 December 2023 08: 11
    Quote: AC130 Ganship
    And on Mig29, are they hanging something from the Americans?


    and in Ukraine, under the wing of the MiG, are Russian missiles suspended?
    1. +1
      9 December 2023 05: 51
      Quote: Dedok
      and in Ukraine, under the wing of the MiG, are Russian missiles suspended?

      Soviet. And Ukrainian ones.
      But under the wings of Russian aircraft there are still suspended not even Soviet ones, but Ukrainian R-27Ms, which until the very beginning of the SVO were produced in Kyiv. And shortly before the SVO, India ordered a large batch of these (R-27M) missiles for used ones. Until 2014, Russia also purchased them there.
      request Soviet legacy.
      There was a scandal back in the 00s, when for our new submarines (Boreev) the GAK was also developed by a specialized Kyiv design bureau. I remember then Medvedev raged on this topic...he was the president then.
  14. +17
    6 December 2023 08: 15
    Quote: Stas157
    The French were able to sell for 240 million what the Russian managers could not sell for 40 million. Why do they get paid there??


    So the exhibition took place in Dubai - and what were the results?
    everyone from Rosoboronexport went, basked in the sun, soaked up in luxury rooms, bought “theirs” - rags, etc. and came back - well-fed and healthy: and all at our expense!
    and here we are collecting gum for the SVO...
  15. +4
    6 December 2023 08: 16
    Quote: dementor873
    It’s strange, considering how they know how to use our budgetary funds, buttering up everyone they can, they managed to screw up in India.


    They don’t know how to “share” like that... they only know how to bring it in their beak...
  16. +7
    6 December 2023 08: 18
    But with the money that Indian corrupt officials stole from the budget at the tender, it would have been easy to complete the fifth generation fighter project, from which India came out on time.


    good phrase, just change the name of the country and a lot will be clear
  17. +2
    6 December 2023 08: 33
    As far as I remember, the first tender for a “light” fighter actually ended in a scandal - the price turned out to be much higher and there was no transfer of technology. As a result, much fewer Rafales were purchased than needed. Many times less.
  18. -2
    6 December 2023 08: 48
    Instead of one Rafal, it is better to buy one Su35S and Su34, but ours will never learn to give bribes.
  19. +4
    6 December 2023 09: 02
    Indians take into account the risks of sanctions and are afraid to buy Russian weapons. It’s not clear to me what to do with this.
  20. +4
    6 December 2023 09: 45
    Quote: Victor Sergeev
    Instead of one Rafal, it is better to buy one Su35S and Su34, but ours will never learn to give bribes.


    everything we see around us now revolves around one word: “Greed”
  21. +1
    6 December 2023 10: 19
    There was information on the net that the Indians wanted to purchase 26 carrier-based Rafales for the aircraft carrier. 4 sparky and 22 combat. But again, still wishful thinking. And the number of combat aircraft is somewhat incomprehensible. A lot for one squadron, not enough for two.
    1. nks
      -2
      6 December 2023 13: 30
      Quote: TermNachTER
      There was information on the net that the Indians wanted to purchase 26 carrier-based Rafales for the aircraft carrier. 4 sparky and 22 fighting

      It’s just that the Rafale won the competition for the Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighters (MRCBF).
      But now is the stage of agreeing on the contract - there is no contract yet.
      There are 2 more points: on the one hand, the French consider the twin gun primarily as a shock version and cannot in any way be considered non-combat. On the other hand, there are no deck twins :)
      Although they can do it for money
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +1
        6 December 2023 15: 32
        Any twin is theoretically combat-ready, but its performance characteristics are significantly worse. That’s why I say that there are actually 22 combat ones.
        1. nks
          0
          7 December 2023 15: 49
          You can say whatever you want for yourself, of course, but it is _really_ wrong :). Spark is an option with enhanced capabilities for working on the ground due to the presence of a weapons operator, the second seat can be used in different ways (also leading an operation or controlling drones) and the fact that it duplicates the functions of a pilot and is thus well suited for training is secondary .
          Therefore, it is not clear in this situation precisely the presence of deck twins as such, which do not exist in nature, otherwise squadrons can be mixed - consist of twins and singles
          But we can assume that the fleet will take two twins for itself, they will be able to work from the ground, and 24 - 2 esq. for deck
          1. 0
            7 December 2023 18: 54
            Could you tell me how much the payload is reduced if there is a second pilot?))) And the second seat does not mean that it is equipped with everything necessary for the operator. There may only be a second, smaller set of controls for the instructor. I seriously doubt that the French will give anything a little more than the required minimum.
            1. nks
              0
              7 December 2023 19: 51
              It doesn't decrease in any way. A twin has smaller tanks regardless of the presence of a second pilot - the range is shorter. Yes, in the balance you have to pay one characteristic for another.
              It can mean anything, but it’s not clear what you’re arguing with and why you’re doubting it. The French will give everything that is written in the contract.
              1. +1
                8 December 2023 02: 00
                They already gave in the last contract, the Indians are still crying)))
                1. nks
                  0
                  9 December 2023 13: 30
                  They are happy :) Very happy.
                  https://youtu.be/Kq9TJ60aya4?t=1694
                  By the way, pay attention to what he also says about simulators - they can work on the network, plus they are top-end in themselves. This is another opportunity to share infrastructure between the Air Force and Navy.
                  PS: And if anything happens, they can only blame themselves.
    2. -1
      10 December 2023 21: 54
      --- to you for the Indians.........
  22. +3
    6 December 2023 10: 25
    Looking at today's fight between the conventional air sword and the conventional air shield, the "shield" has long been winning over the "sword" and not on points. That is, the capabilities of aviation, like tanks, have become quite limited. Frontline aviation services have long been performed by attack drones; missiles and bombs from bombers are also launched remotely. Well, as for aviation in general, then in a real battle everything comes to light. Well, the tender is, of course, murky; it is not clear who “overfed” or “underfed” whom.
    1. +3
      6 December 2023 12: 43
      Well, no, a sword is still much more dangerous than a shield, it just requires a sword, not a paper stick. This has now been clearly demonstrated by the Northern Military District; if the Russian Federation had a couple of dozen A-100-level AWACS aircraft that would circle around the clock, satellite reconnaissance in real time, modern anti-radar missiles and high-precision glide bombs, then the question of suppressing Ukrainian air defense would be a matter of a couple of months. That is, here you just need to pile on the whole thing at once, otherwise the shield will simply stand.
      1. +2
        6 December 2023 13: 16
        As for the “osprey”, here again only drones, and cheap ones at that, from secondary substances and sticks can create a “oversaturation” of air defense with the aim of depleting it for missiles or simply ammunition and tracking in general. As for modern aviation and even ultra-modern aviation, none other than the “great and mighty” United States landed the not-so-modern air defense of Iraq with special missiles and, much later, started their famous air-land battle with all that it entails.
      2. +5
        6 December 2023 23: 17
        Quote: Dmitry Rigov
        Well, no, a sword is still much more dangerous than a shield, it just requires a sword, not a paper stick. This has now been clearly demonstrated by the Northern Military District; if the Russian Federation had a couple of dozen A-100-level AWACS aircraft that would circle around the clock, satellite reconnaissance in real time, modern anti-radar missiles and high-precision glide bombs, then the question of suppressing Ukrainian air defense would be a matter of a couple of months.

        You forgot to say that the sword also needs eyes (intelligence), brains (control) and testicles (determination), otherwise you can hide in a corner with a lightsaber, and then ask for negotiations and draw red lines, so you can lose to anyone, they'll just throw stones at you
  23. +11
    6 December 2023 10: 30
    The author literally “burns with a verb”, and from the first lines. It’s just not clear whether 90 percent of the information in the article was deliberately “rephrased” or out of ignorance.
    But the products of the Sukhoi Company did not participate in the tender, the Indians did not like the MiG-35 due to its incompleteness, and a whole campaign of persecution was launched against the MiG-29. There were not many contenders left, and the Indians settled on what seemed to be a fully developed French aircraft.

    A whole paragraph of continuous "blizzard". The Sukhoi company participated in the tender represented by the Mig-35. No one remembered the MiG 29 at all at this tender. There were many applicants. Six. The picture from the tender presentation shows them all - Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Lockheed Martin F-16, Mikoyan MiG-35, Saab JAS 39 Gripen.
    Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon reached the semi-finals. The Dassault Rafale won.
    Over the course of 10 years, the French delivered eight machines.

    The French did not place in the MRCA competition none cars! Litigation and showdowns around this tender are still dragging on.
    But since the Indians need aircraft, in 2016 India and France signed a separate contract for the supply of 36 Dassault Rafale aircraft, which were delivered to them strictly within the agreed time frame - within three years, from 2019 to 2022. Currently, these 36 aircraft consist of in service with the Indian Air Force.
    And when the real prices for the Rafali surfaced, which, by the way, is 218 euros ($600) for one aircraft.

    Only the author forgot to point out that according to the terms of the contract that the Indians put forward, half of this price was to be reinvested by the French in the aircraft industry of India and the creation of infrastructure for the operation of French aircraft.
    This is just what immediately catches your eye. And if we go deeper into the technical side...
    In a word, according to the article, you can write two more with a “debriefing”.
    1. nks
      +1
      6 December 2023 13: 32
      Quote: Dekabrist
      Only the author forgot to point out that according to the terms of the contract that the Indians put forward, half of this price was to be reinvested by the French in the aircraft industry of India and the creation of infrastructure for the operation of French aircraft

      Yes, this also included weapons and the creation of special modifications and training and support for a long time.
      By the way, the enterprises were created in India.
    2. +6
      6 December 2023 14: 42
      hi
      In a word, according to the article, you can write two more with a “debriefing”.


      Here everything is pretty well sorted out: "Indian tender MMRCA: lessons and conclusions for Russia". https://bmpd.livejournal.com/1432807.html
  24. -5
    6 December 2023 10: 50
    Hindus, one word. I have been watching with approximately the same interest how Westinghouse has been “building” nuclear power plants for the past 20 years. Moreover, the conversation was generally about about 40-50 blocks at first. 20 years - they haven't even decided yet. where AT LEAST ONE nuclear power plant will be physically located. Everyone is dancing.
    Then you can remember that Westinghouse does not know how to build nuclear power plants at all, in principle! Fuel - they do it, software - they do it. But they don’t know how to build nuclear power plants!!! Well, not their field of activity! Never mind, let's dance wink
    1. +5
      6 December 2023 14: 20
      I have been watching with about the same interest how Westinghouse has been “building” nuclear power plants for 20 years now.

      Keep watching. Just change your observation post, otherwise you won’t see two Chinese nuclear power plants with Westinghouse reactors put into operation in 2018 and 2019.
      1. -2
        6 December 2023 14: 32
        Oh, well, well. This means that the reactors were NOT built by Westinghouse, moreover, when the Chinese began to figure out what kind of documentation they were given, they had to run to Rosatom, and Rosatom had to completely remake the entire nuclear power plant, because in principle no standards were observed there, reactors even in the USA were not certified.
        By the way, the Vogtl nuclear power plant in the USA is being built on paper by Westinghouse, but in fact - 1500 subcontractors, for example, the reactor casings themselves are made by South Korea, Westinghouse provides only the software. This means that Korea is building in the USA, and Westinghouse was building in China, right?
        At least take an interest in the topic - you look stupid
        1. +5
          6 December 2023 14: 34
          you look stupid

          You're fine with self-criticism. In a word, watch. Good luck.
  25. -3
    6 December 2023 11: 02
    Hindus, they are such Hindus. Actually, there is nothing more to add
  26. +4
    6 December 2023 11: 08
    Well, if you look at it without bias, then the Rafal is doing well, unlike the MiG-29/35.
  27. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      6 December 2023 12: 46
      The author is Roman Skomorokhov, is the editor-in-chief of VO, head of the Armament Department.
      Draw your own conclusions....
      1. +4
        6 December 2023 13: 27
        Igor Prokopenko also graduated from military institutes, now he’s not a cleaner for rent either
  28. +2
    6 December 2023 12: 45
    And when the real prices for the Rafali surfaced, which, by the way, is 218 euros ($600) for one aircraft. Approaching his 000th birthday as a model. So, by the way, an “empty” F-239 costs about $500. The Su-000S can be purchased for $35. That is, for the amount of money that India spent on the purchase of 94 Rafales, one could buy 000 Su-000S aircraft or, in theory (because most likely they would not have sold) 35 F-108A aircraft.



    You need to compare it with the F18, F35S (only they are modern competitors of the ship-based Rafal)....which do not cost $93 million....the deck ship is always more expensive. Su35S went to China for 100 million, but God knows how much its deck version will cost.
  29. -1
    6 December 2023 12: 56
    Quote from Kartograph
    Quote: Ezekiel 25-17
    The article is not about that, the essence of the matter is this: officials in India wanted to get baksheesh; the French gave it to them. Further: if I were Rosoboron Export, I would swear off dealing with the Indians: simply because they have proven themselves to be unreliable partners; and in the end, we ourselves need the planes, we have an air defense system. Let them invest in the S-75.

    Is this why they have shown themselves to be unreliable? They promised to buy it instantly? Besides everything else, Russia has big problems with warranty and post-warranty maintenance of equipment. In short, whoever pays calls the tune

    They paid: several times more expensive, they were also lucky, because they only paid in money, and not in cash, like the Ukrainians.
  30. +6
    6 December 2023 13: 05
    It’s just that France takes advantage of the fact that it is a power and writes contracts to make money, but they just buy from us cheaper on any terms. If we acted like the West in matters of sales, we could earn more money.
  31. -1
    6 December 2023 15: 00
    But everything turned out according to the canons of Indian TV series, that is, with secrets, conspiracies, scandals, revelations and even fights. It looks like there was no dancing, but I'm not sure.

    What about the songs? What is bollywood without songs? belay
  32. +5
    6 December 2023 15: 37
    You can talk on this topic as much as you like, but as they say: you can’t turn the mince back. India is and will continue to purchase Rafales. For now... And then it’s very possible that the F-16 or something newer. Because the United States, firstly, really wants to drag India into its company against China and may well pour out bonuses. Plus they know how to build quickly. And secondly, how can you not fall in love with your loved one, but they love to love the French))) and they can very well repeat the trick as with boats for Australia.
    And Russia... Russia, for just YEARS of whining, as India promised... but went to another))) did not, in the person of its top officials, as representatives of the country, and RSK MIG as a performer, absolutely NOTHING to change the situation . Well, let’s say the Indians come to them, so what? Is everything ready for immediate use? Or, as usual, in 10 years we will deliver the first plane. And MiG really spoiled its reputation with deadlines. For some reason there were no complaints against Sukhoi. We would buy a batch of Mig-35s and show them to the Indians - here are the planes, here are the working lines, here is the price, but now think. Then it would make sense.
  33. -4
    6 December 2023 16: 20
    Wow, this junk costs twice as much as the F-35 - there is corruption among the Indians
  34. +5
    6 December 2023 16: 28
    AFARs have been installed on Rafale since 2012.
  35. +9
    6 December 2023 18: 53
    we have nothing more to offer the Indians. They have already given everything they could and had. Both technologies and licenses. They are no longer interested in us. Russia has lost ground not only in combat aviation, but in all other types of weapons. India has long understood this. And the SVO showed this to everyone, including ourselves. Therefore, there is no point in blaming the Indians for being so inadequate and ungrateful. If we had something really worthwhile, like in the days of the USSR, they would be sure to buy it, regardless of any sanctions. We ourselves ruined our design bureaus and aircraft industry. And now we get the result. All KB MIG aircraft are long outdated and this company has not created anything new over the last 30 years. And does this design bureau still exist? And the Rafael is a good car, despite its inadequate price. With less engine thrust, it carries on 13 suspensions almost twice the combat load of 9500 kg, while the MIG-5500 has 29,35 kg. or 8000 kg for heavy SU-30,34,35. It has a modern AFAR, flight and weapons control systems, including the V-V Meteor missile. Therefore, it is possible to understand the Indians.
    1. +1
      8 December 2023 23: 44
      Quote: wladimirjankov
      And the Rafael is a good car, despite its inadequate price.

      He is Rafal, not Raphael.
      Quote: wladimirjankov
      With less engine thrust, it carries on 13 suspensions almost twice the combat load of 9500 kg, while the MIG-5500 has 29,35 kg.

      If the Rafal has 9500 kg, then the MiG-35 has more than 12200 kg.
      Quote: wladimirjankov
      or 8000 kg for heavy SU-30,34,35.

      The Su-30MK has 14700 kg with 5270 kg of fuel. When comparing, it is necessary to use the same take-off masses and calculation methods.
  36. +5
    6 December 2023 19: 41
    “The picture is peculiar. Do you see two aircraft here, one of which has an unconditional advantage over the other? I don’t see it either. Considering that the maximum take-off weight of both aircraft is the same, 24 kg, the MiG-500K is clearly a little faster and flies higher, if necessary. And the Rafale has a (great) advantage in the amount of cargo on external slings." _This picture is clearly not a Rafale, but rather an Indian Tejas Navy.
    1. +1
      8 December 2023 23: 49
      Quote: AlexanderBrv
      Considering that the maximum take-off weight of both aircraft is the same, 24 kg,

      If the Rafal takes a take-off weight of 24500 kg, then the MiG-35 will have a similar take-off weight of 29700 kg.
  37. +6
    6 December 2023 20: 43
    Comparing equipment in terms of performance characteristics is like comparing a UAZ Patriot with a Land Cruiser. They don't seem to be much different.
    Similarly with prices, without looking at the composition of the contract. Maybe it includes weapons, maintenance, etc.
  38. 0
    6 December 2023 20: 43
    It’s not at all clear what the Su-35 has to do with it. Purely heavy pepper. Well, the author doubled the price for it... Roman, aren’t you in charge of the ruble exchange rate?
  39. +1
    7 December 2023 00: 33
    There is a proposal to the editorial staff of VO to check the material released on air “more carefully” in order to avoid military-technical “blunders”, especially if the material comes from “multi-fuel” authors who know anything and everything about any weapon and any military equipment, starting from a sapper shovel to electronic warfare equipment and satellites of the NATO and Russian orbital constellation..... And regarding the Rafale operation by French forces and means on Indian territory... A well-orchestrated and competently carried out operation, which Russia, represented by Rosoboronexport, The Trade Mission of the Russian Federation in India and the Embassy of the Russian Federation simply “overslept” and were left to their own devices, based on the well-known Russian “post-perestroika” paradigm “Where can you get away from us, my dears...” And the French “hurried up”: they worked competently , with the media (custom articles, advertising of the company "Dassault Aviation" on all corners), cinema clips, excursion tours to the enterprises of "Dassault Aviation" for "interested" persons, "kickbacks" obvious and hidden... In general, "throwing beads" under the legs of the “needed” were organized... Result: the Rafales went, and the MiG and Su nervously smoked on the sidelines.... Something like this...
  40. +1
    7 December 2023 15: 04
    To the author: You write:
    An "empty" F-35 costs about $94. The Su-000S can be purchased for $000. That is, for the amount of money that India spent on the purchase of 35 Rafales, one could buy 108 Su-000S aircraft or, in theory (because most likely they would not have sold) 000 F-36A aircraft.



    And where do such low prices come from for the F-35, and even in comparison with the Su-35? Didn't you lose a zero there or didn't write it down? /sincerely perplexed/
  41. 0
    7 December 2023 19: 48
    The picture is peculiar. Do you see two planes here, one of which has an unconditional advantage over the other? So I don’t see it.

    Roman, after these words it’s hard to believe that you understand airplanes at least at the level of an interested schoolchild, and not just like an expert analyst on a military website. It’s not the Rafale that stands next to the MiG, since the Rafale is a twin-engine machine, and the plane in the photo is a single-engine one. This is Tejas.
  42. The comment was deleted.
  43. 0
    13 December 2023 15: 35
    The author of the plane does not have a left wing!! there is a left wing-wing one!!
  44. 0
    19 January 2024 13: 09
    The Hindus became victims of their own cave greed.
    They "danced" themselves.
    So they should!
    Moreover, the Indians began supplying 155 mm shells to Ukroreich.
  45. 0
    15 February 2024 00: 13
    how many Su-57s have entered service over almost a quarter of a century of development and production “programs”
    How much how much..??? the rest of yours is drunk and I won’t quote. Drink less and everything will be fine...