It's time for the heavyweights. On the creation of high-power artillery brigades in the Russian army

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It's time for the heavyweights. On the creation of high-power artillery brigades in the Russian army

We, as we once did during the Great Patriotic War, finally understood the importance of artillery of great and special power. Alas, the thesis that story repeats, works. Everything is happening approximately the same as it happened then. SVO is like a modern copy of that war. There are guns, there is a mortar, they are present on the LBS.

And only now, “taking into account the experience of the Northern Military District,” the idea reached our command that the army vitally needed units and formations of artillery of large and special power. And this despite the fact that our officers are well aware of the Berlin operation, the capture of Poznan, and the assault on Königsberg. These operations are still studied in military academies around the world.



But I perceive the message about the formation of teams with optimism. Such brigades are necessary primarily for the destruction of enemy defensive structures in fortified areas. This means, based on the purpose of the brigades, we will continue to carry out exactly such operations. The command is preparing units for just such work.

The artillerymen will tell you why we lost the Soviet-Finnish War. At the same time, shortly before this, the Japanese were defeated at Khalkin Gol. The famous Mannerheim Line, which was impregnable in 1940, lasted only 11 days in June 1944.

It was enough to use 305-mm howitzers, which had been gathering dust in arsenals since 1917 (!), and 280-mm Br-5 mortars. Only five divisions! Plus the fire of Baltic naval guns fleet. It was these divisions and naval guns that turned the Finnish defense into ruins.

All Finnish million-dollar bunkers turned into dust. And the heavy ones Tanks KV and Churchill completed the work of the artillerymen. The attack aircraft were already moving through the broken “windows” in the Finnish defense. I’ll tell you a little “open secret”. The Red Army then used (taking into account the lost ones) ... about 500 pieces of 305-mm shells!

To be fair, I note that high-power and high-power weapons are not always so effective. There is no absolute in the world weapons. So, during the assault on Königsberg that I already mentioned, Fort No. 5 was hit 73 times by 280-mm concrete-piercing shells (280-mm mortar Br-5). However, only two penetrations were recorded.

And Fort No. 4, after being hit by 120 203-mm shells from B-4 howitzers and 240 122-mm shells from F-19 cannons, was not damaged at all, except for potholes in the walls. Fort No. 8 received 78 hits from 305-mm shells - and only five through holes.

By the way, I cannot help but recall the heroism of the Soviet defenders of the fortifications. Somehow we forgot about the heroes of the defense of Leningrad. Meanwhile, the 305-mm Krasnaya Gorka turret installations operated flawlessly almost all days of defense! And the Germans bombarded them with heavy shells quite often. “Krasnaya Gorka” withstood more than a hundred such shells.

And the feat of Sevastopol batteries No. 30 and No. 35! Eight months under fire from everything the Nazis had. Eight months under bombs of various calibers. The towers were standing! If it were not for the two-ton shells of the 615-mm mortars... No walls would have withstood such attacks. Even the forts of Königsberg. But we didn’t have such weapons.

Now someone will write that the author is confusing artillery of special and high power, which is not stationary and fortress, which is not mobile. Or mobile and coastal artillery. You can also remember the railway art.

Yes, these are really different types of artillery units and formations. But I want to show the power and efficiency of such weapons. And I generally consider it necessary to mention our heroes. So that we do not forget them, busy solving our problems... I predict that now there will be an “expert” who will tell us about the superiority of German guns over Soviet ones. There was no superiority! The power was comparable.

There is for what, there is from what and there is for whom


So, the Russian army is creating several high-power artillery brigades at once. After going on the offensive, the need for such formations increased significantly. Of course, it is not worth comparing the fortifications that the “Germans” built in their cities and towns with the fortresses of Königsberg and even the fortifications of Berlin.

However, as the experience gained during the SVO during the assault on serious fortifications shows, even 152-mm shells are not always effective. Not to mention smaller calibers. To take such fortifications, we have to pay with the lives of our soldiers.

In its original purpose, a hundred years ago, the task of high-power artillery was not only to storm fortresses, but also to work on defensive structures in the tactical depth of defense. Today, such tasks remain, although, in my opinion, the priority is still the first, the main thing is the destruction of engineering structures.

It is no secret that in the Northern Military District zone there already exists a high-power artillery brigade, the formation of which is almost completed. I mean the 17th Brigade. The remaining brigades are still in the formation stage. Such formations will be part of the army corps. By the way, it is necessary to recall that such a brigade was in the Russian army before the war. This is the 45th brigade.

Readers are probably interested in the composition of the brigade. Naturally, we do not have such information, but we can speak with confidence about weapons. Nothing new. These are the long-known and well-proven heavy-duty “Peonies” (2S7) and “Malki” (2S7M). Heavy mortars "Tulip" (2S4) have not been forgotten either.

In addition, again based on the specifics of using such systems, the brigades will include powerful reconnaissance units, most likely equipped with modern reconnaissance equipment. drones, having constant communication with space reconnaissance, etc. Commanders of divisions and brigades will not “scatter” such powerful ammunition “wherever God sends.”

I am far from thinking that the brigades will appear at the LBS tomorrow. The systems are quite complex, and in order for the crews to work effectively, time is needed for combat coordination. Alas, so far we have not yet been able to fully unleash the potential of the above-mentioned artillery systems.

Why such an unusual composition of the teams?


Again, questions arise that require clear answers. And the first is the question of guns and mortars in one formation. After all, the purposes of these systems are different. Indeed, “Tulips” are intended, first of all, to destroy defenses that are well equipped from an engineering point of view. Destruction of concrete targets and other fortifications that are difficult to take without complete destruction.

At the same time, the work of all enemy artillery will be directed against the mortars. And this is where “Peonies” and “Malki” are needed. Counter-battery warfare and protection of our systems. At the same time, no one removes from such weapons the task of destroying objects in the tactical depth of defense. These systems are quite capable of solving the problem of destroying personnel and equipment in concentration areas.

The next question is about videoconferencing and UAVs. Why are Tulips needed if the Aerospace Forces have started using large-caliber bombs? Firstly, no one belittles the role of the Aerospace Forces in the destruction of engineering defense facilities. But what to do when some object is not destroyed or restored? Wait for the next raid to prepare? Artillery has the advantage of time! Brigade commanders can handle fire much more quickly than pilots can.

UAV. Unfortunately, drones do not yet have enough power to destroy serious structures. Even a massive drone raid does not ensure the destruction of a serious fortification. Even heavy armored vehicles, the hits of which are so often broadcast on Internet channels today, are not always destroyed. Yes, drones cause damage, but they are quickly eliminated in the field.

Well, one last thing. There are no unnecessary weapons. Especially “on the ground”. I'll write a banality. No matter how much the artillery works, no matter how much the VKS and everyone else work, until an ordinary motorized rifle fighter, paratrooper, marine, or any attack aircraft ultimately enters an enemy trench or dugout, the position is not taken. Where the infantry “Vasya” sits, that’s where our positions are.

Instead of a conclusion


I won’t reveal any secret if I say that “Peonies”, “Malki”, and “Tulips” have been used by the Russian army almost from the very beginning of the Northern Military District. Individual guns and divisions took part in the destruction of engineering structures at Azovstal in Mariupol, the Zarya plant in Rubezhnoye, and the Azot plant in Severodonetsk. They broke down defensive structures in Artyomovsk and Popasnaya...

The time has come when these systems need to be concentrated. It is brigades with high-power maneuverable artillery systems that are able to quickly solve problems that arise for corps during the offensive. It is doubtful that Kyiv has structures capable of withstanding the power that we will soon see executed by these brigades. Probably only Soviet buildings. But we built them - and we know how to take them.

Well, one last thing. I'm talking about a "Pandora's box" in the form of cluster munitions. "Malka" and "Pion" can fire not only high-explosive fragmentation or concrete-piercing shells. They also have cluster munitions in their arsenal. Imagine the reaction of the Ukrainian Armed Forces to the arrival of a dozen projectiles weighing 110 kg (a regular projectile) in a cassette design at a collection point located 40-50 kilometers before the LBS. I think such a “short greeting” from “Malka” will greatly increase the morale of the Armed Forces of Ukraine...
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  1. +43
    4 December 2023 04: 10
    The artillerymen will tell you why we lost the Soviet-Finnish War.

    Well, I didn’t think that Staver would write such a shame...
    1. +6
      4 December 2023 05: 29
      why we lost the Soviet-Finnish war.
      I think this is a typo! feel
      1. +5
        4 December 2023 15: 57
        And what about the KV and Churchill tanks destroying Finnish pillboxes?
        1. +1
          4 December 2023 18: 36
          Quote: D-east
          And what about the KV and Churchill tanks destroying Finnish pillboxes?

          The author writes this phrase about 44. therefore, it is quite possible that “Churchill” was also used in the breakthrough of “Mannerheim”
          1. 0
            6 December 2023 02: 35
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            about '44. therefore, it is quite possible that “Churchill” was also used in the breakthrough of “Mannerheim”

            Heavy English Churchill tanks were supplied to the USSR and were mainly sent to the Leningrad Front. Chronicle footage of the Churchills on the streets of Leningrad and many photographs have been preserved. So the mention of the joint use of KV and Churchill tanks during the assault on the Manerheim Line in 1944 is quite correct.
            1. 0
              9 February 2024 13: 05
              What kind of Finnish bunkers did “Churchill” destroy with his 57-mm gun? Very few tanks with a 75 mm howitzer in the hull were delivered to the USSR.
              1. 0
                9 February 2024 13: 12
                Quote: Jager
                What kind of Finnish bunkers did “Churchill” destroy with his 57-mm gun?

                I don’t think that the Churchills were used for such a purpose; most likely they simply accompanied and supported the infantry.
                These tanks were supplied during the period of transfer of our defense enterprises beyond the Urals, and in 44 we had enough of our own tanks. And assault self-propelled guns.
      2. +8
        4 December 2023 18: 33
        "I think it's a typo!"
        At the staver, wherever you take it, there’s a mistake everywhere. I wonder who edits his works? It’s so easy to ban someone, so a bunch of admins sit and watch. and how to bring Staver back to consciousness, there’s no one there
        1. 0
          6 December 2023 02: 57
          Quote: ZloyKot
          At the staver, wherever you take it, there’s a mistake everywhere.

          And this is how to perceive what is written. If with knowledge of the history of the issue, but it is generally known that the minimum task of that war was to move the border away from Leningrad, but the maximum program was just complete victory over the White Finns (that’s what the official authorities and the press of the USSR called them) and the establishment of Soviet Power there . We already had a cabinet of ministers ready for the Finnish SSR, the Communist Party of Finland, and they wrote and spoke about it directly and without equivocation. In the end, Finland was an ordinary province (with a number of liberties, but no more) of the Russian Empire. And based on the “Maximum Problem” we fought that war request at least they didn’t win, but reduced it to a peace treaty ON OUR terms.
          To call that war “lost” is, of course, too much, but who cares about that? The Soviet leadership certainly did not count on such resistance (as in the current Northern Military District). . . The “Pechenegs” did not run away from the heroic whistle. And we had to force them to peace on terms acceptable to the USSR. For while we were breaking the Mannerheim Line with our foreheads, all of Europe began to rally against us. England and France were preparing a landing operation. and an expeditionary force to land in Finland. . They were preparing to bomb Leningrad, set up a naval blockade, and around the same time they agreed on a joint (British and Frank) plan to bomb our oil fields in Baku and Grozny with incendiary ammunition.
          Therefore, the war ended IMMEDIATELY after the capture of the Manerheim Line.
          And in the West they really considered it... lost by Russia - “The Reds started and did not achieve their goals.”
          But in the American film of those years (1942, if memory serves) “What We Fight For,” filmed under the supervision of the former US Ambassador to the USSR (a friend of Roosevelt), the theme of the “Winter War” was revealed correctly.
    2. +4
      4 December 2023 10: 29
      Why all these fortune telling on coffee grounds and incomprehensible conclusions? What are the tactics of modern combat? She exists ? It looks like someone is stuck in time. Everyone points to the experience of the Second World War. Has nothing changed since then?
      We, as we once did during the Great Patriotic War, finally understood the importance of artillery of great and special power.

      Raze cities and towns into dust by shooting across the area and incur huge losses? Do you offer this along with the manual?
      1. +3
        4 December 2023 14: 22
        Quote: Totvolk80
        Has nothing changed since then?

        Everything has changed, but practice has shown that practically nothing has changed. All modern database theories are based on the impossibility of hacking the defense. Which brings us back to the practice of the Second World War, if not WWII, which is even more likely. By themselves, these brigades will only be able to plow a field. Only saturation with reconnaissance and target designation means, operating in real time and integrated into a single network, will make these brigades a breakwater capable of crushing any defense. But this requires many satellites, UAVs, communications and much more. Discussions about this have been going on for many years, and I would like to hope for progress on this issue. But, considering that the same people will be doing it as before, I have little faith in the result.
        1. 0
          5 December 2023 09: 42
          We need to move these people. And theoretical and practical calculations already exist, just as there has long been an opportunity to implement them. Maybe not in the desired way, but in a working format. There is also an acceptable implementation mechanism. There is no way to reach the person making the decision... Moreover, systems such as the Sozvezdie-M ESU TZ have been created since 2000, and those who create them have no idea what they are needed for. And their transformation into automated control systems only confirms this. But no one has canceled the Military Doctrine of 2014, but it contains a task that has not been completed. And this is no longer stupidity, but something else, for which they used to be shot...
        2. +2
          6 December 2023 03: 33
          Quote: qqqq
          takes us back to the practice of the Second World War, if not WWII,

          Alas, this is so. And this is entirely the merit of such outstanding pillars of state and military thought as Shoigu and Gerasimov - apologists of the Small Army with disdain for novelty and common sense.
          Now we have trench warfare a la WWII.
          But the construction of the Great Army (and it is underway and is producing results), increasing the number and degree/quality of weapons/supply/support, gradually moves us from the WWII situation to the WWII situation, where there were no such “positional dead ends” anymore, and combat operations took place more dynamically and offensively. And the new heavy artillery brigades of special power should serve as a tool for the transition to this new quality. Together with new air regiments, UMAP with UMPC, a large number of FPV drones and reconnaissance and target designation UAVs.
          Quote: qqqq
          Only saturation with reconnaissance and target designation means, operating in real time and integrated into a single network, will make these brigades a breakwater capable of crushing any defense.

          This is true . therefore, the satellite constellation continues to be deployed in the interests of the RF Ministry of Defense, and the production of RCC UAVs has increased by an order of magnitude+, if not by two orders of magnitude. And everything has already improved with communications in the troops - closed and digital.
          Quote: qqqq
          They were stuck in the impossibility of breaking through the defenses.

          In the spring-summer of 2022, the RF Armed Forces resisted due to a PHENOMENAL lack of strength, means and personnel. And after “regroupings” and “difficult decisions” they went on the strategic defense. We no longer broke (Artyomovsk and Avdeevka - operations of a tactical ... well, operational-tactical level. All this time they were already storming / breaking us. And of course - they broke down. The time has not yet come to start a war / North Military District - there is no Army for this yet It is just being created, and new districts, armies, corps, divisions, air regiments and... brigades of heavy weapons of special power are being deployed for it.
          Quote: Totvolk80
          Erasing cities and towns into dust

          Alas, this will now be exactly the case. Moreover, the enemy chose the strategy of war in cities. I'm afraid that after this there may not be any cities left in the Northern Black Sea region. According to the plans of those who ordered this war, everything here should be demolished to zero.
          And yes - there are more victims.
          “We (they) have never invested money in a war so profitably and with such good results.”
          Quote: qqqq
          Considering that the same people will be doing it as before, I have little faith in the result.

          There are no other dancers near the towers.
          But this is all politics.
          1. 0
            6 December 2023 12: 22
            "In the spring-summer of 2022, the RF Armed Forces resisted due to a PHENOMENAL lack of strength, means and personnel"
            In the spring-summer of 2022, the RF Armed Forces resisted due to the PHENOMENAL stupidity of those who started this. everything else is just excuses and explanations
            1. +2
              6 December 2023 18: 19
              Quote: ZloyKot
              In the spring-summer of 2022, the RF Armed Forces resisted due to the PHENOMENAL stupidity of those who started this. All

              This only means that all this was started in a very short period of time, when it became clear that Kyiv had decided to liquidate the LDPR by military means and was preparing an attack on Crimea. And all these undertakings were thwarted, the military potential of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was undermined, the offensive on Donbass was thwarted, a land corridor to Crimea was obtained, the security of Crimea was ensured.
              Have you listened to the British Clown?
              Have you decided to “just fight”?
              Get it with a spoonful, but as an adult.
              The losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are already about 1 killed, died from wounds, went missing and deserted from their units. And this in the Russian Federation “hasn’t started yet.” And this is not a figure of speech - no one has really started yet.
              And what the company managed to achieve in the first month with SUCH balance of forces is something else to look for in World Military History. Mariupol alone is worth it!! With forces almost half the size, the enemy was surrounded in the city, destroyed and captured! To storm a well-fortified city with half the enemy’s forces... We still need to look for something like that. So look for stupidity in your ranks. Listen to your Arestovich, his promises and explanations, admire the “hundreds of F-16s” in the skies of Ukraine, the hundreds of billions of dollars and euros in your budget from sponsors, the endless cemetery fields of the “heroes of Ukraine”, the destroyed cities - now this is your real and the future.
              1. -2
                7 December 2023 09: 56
                "Kyiv has decided to liquidate the LDPR by military means and is preparing an attack on Crimea"
                Well, yes, and when this became completely clear, these Napoleons from ward No. 6 decided to counteract this by landing troops near Kyiv and launching an attack on Kharkov and Sumy, instead of protecting and liberating the LPR. the crown of military leadership! standing ovation!
                "The losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces are already about 1 killed..."
                Did you count them personally, or together with Konashenkov? In our country, which is typical, there were no losses at all during the mentioned period, since Konashenkov does not mention this.
                “Mariupol alone is worth it!! With forces almost half the size, the enemy was surrounded in the city.”
                About 2,5 thousand Ukrainian soldiers surrendered. This means that there were 5-6 thousand of them in total and you want to say that Mariupol and Azovstal attacked and stormed troops in the amount of 2-3 thousand? cut the sturgeon, venerable laughing
                "Storm a well-fortified city"
                Do you have photos or videos of those same fortifications in Mariupol? or, as usual, is it all in words?
                1. +2
                  7 December 2023 10: 29
                  Quote: ZloyKot
                  decided to counteract this by landing troops near Kyiv and launching an attack on Kharkov and Sumy, instead of protecting and liberating the LPR.

                  This was an attempt to promote/create conditions for a coup in Kyiv. It didn't work out. British intelligence outplayed.
                  And Kharkov, Sumy, Kyiv, Kherson (and in that direction they first reached the suburbs of Nikolaev and Krivoy Rog) and Mariupol are stretching the forces of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in many directions at once, not giving them the opportunity to concentrate forces in one direction. Until Mariupol was cleared, offensive operations continued in all directions.
                  Prigogine, Kvachkov, and many others said it best about the “military wisdom” of the two cardboard marshals. And the fact that they fought with meager forces, not daring to mobilize or call for volunteers.
                  Quote: ZloyKot
                  "The losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces are already about 1 killed..."
                  Did you count them personally, or together with Konashenkov?

                  No, your Kolomoisky counted it and published it on his channel - in a creeping line. And he knows better from there (even from a pre-trial detention center).
                  Quote: ZloyKot
                  About 2,5 thousand Ukrainian soldiers surrendered. This means that there were 5-6 thousand of them in total.

                  So many surrendered at Azovstal alone. In total, there were at least 11 thousand prisoners at that time of surrender, and most of them were captured in Mariupol.
                  A group of about 20 thousand+ was surrounded in Mariupol.
                  And they were stormed by a group of about 11 thousand people.
                  Quote: ZloyKot
                  "Storm a well-fortified city"
                  Do you have photos or videos of those same fortifications in Mariupol? or, as usual, is it all in words?

                  My friends were there. My friend was wounded there.
                  Quote: ZloyKot
                  We, which is typical, had no losses at all during the mentioned period,

                  I have no idea who you are, how many of you there were and whether you suffered losses. Maybe you've been stunned by valerian all this time.
                  And we will count the losses after the war, which is still the Northern Military District.
                  1. -1
                    7 December 2023 10: 51
                    "No, your Kolomoisky counted it"
                    Kolomoisky is as much mine as yours. It will be a big shock for you to find out that I am as Russian as you (I hope). I live, as I have lived all my life, in Russia. the only difference from you is that I don’t lick aphedrons in a patriotic frenzy, and I know how to think and analyze a little
                    “In total, there were at least 11 thousand prisoners at that time of surrender, and most of them were captured in Mariupol.
                    A group of about 20 thousand+ was surrounded in Mariupol.
                    And they were stormed by a group of about 11 thousand people"
                    where did you get these numbers from? out of your head? How can you confirm them?
                    "My friends were there. My friend was wounded there"
                    no one lies more than witnesses and eyewitnesses
                    “I have no idea who you are, how many of you there were and whether you suffered losses.”
                    To make it clear to you, I’ll explain it in simple terms - you, in your opinion, are the same us that you consider yourself to be. and in general, don’t play dumb, I explained everything to you at the beginning of the comment, but for you, anyone who expresses an opinion that is dissimilar to your understanding of reality is an enemy and a bully. If it's hard for me to understand reality, that's your business. But I’ll survive the fact that you consider me your personal enemy somehow, even without loss of appetite. you're too small a fry for me to pay attention to you
                    1. 0
                      7 December 2023 11: 22
                      Quote: ZloyKot
                      where did you get these numbers from? out of your head? How can you confirm them?

                      I followed events as they developed. These figures were given by Khodakovsky, and he was in that sector of the front.
                      Quote: ZloyKot
                      no one lies more than witnesses and eyewitnesses

                      The young man, my friend's unit began this assault. His group was the first to enter Mariupol and started fighting there. There is a video of the singer Utah “Struna”, it contains footage of their group’s work. He's there in the grenade launcher. He is old enough to be my son, he is still fighting to this day after a serious wound and two shell shocks. And I myself live in Donetsk, so I am an eyewitness to a lot.

                      Quote: ZloyKot
                      It will be a big shock for you to find out that I am as Russian as you (I hope). I live, as I have lived all my life, in Russia.

                      The State must write its name with a capital letter. And you are certainly not “the same”.
                      Quote: ZloyKot
                      don't play dumb

                      No. It is not good to be rude to elders, both in age and in rank.
                      Quote: ZloyKot
                      you're too small a fry for me to pay attention to you

                      So why did you fluff your feathers? Why are you making comments for me? Are you pouring out bile? lol "Russian" .
                      I would fight at least for the sake of decency, since he’s so “smart.” Or are you afraid of ruining the skin?
                      I have been here (Donbass) since the spring of 2014.
                      1. -2
                        7 December 2023 17: 47
                        “These figures were given by Khodakovsky, and he was in that sector of the front”
                        Let's just say, not the greatest authority. he saw only what was in front of his battalion, and only guessed about the rest
                        “And I myself live in Donetsk, so I am an eyewitness to a lot.”
                        I already talked about eyewitnesses, but you probably fed on rumors. It is unlikely that the Ministry of Defense provided information specifically for you.
                        "The State must write its name with a capital letter."
                        I’ll explain for the umpteenth time - the “CapsLock” key on my keyboard doesn’t work
                        “It’s not good to be rude to elders, both in age and rank”
                        are you sure you are older? Judging by the spelling of some words, you are studying at school or college, and not very successfully. No?
                        “I would fight at least for the sake of decency, since I’m so “smart””
                        So, dear sir, you fight for the sake of decency? if at all, you are fighting
                        "I've been here (Donbass) since the spring of 2014"
                        do you live there?
                        "Why are you making comments for me?"
                        I just want to understand why you consider yourself older and smarter than me? Place of residence does not provide any advantages. and if you fought there, and Khodakov’s authority is for you, then you should remember what he said about the combat readiness and ability to fight of the Donetsk police and all sorts of “tags”. and yes, I'm Russian
                      2. 0
                        7 December 2023 22: 34
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        Let's just say, not the greatest authority. he saw only what was in front of his battalion

                        He commanded a brigade. By the end of 2014, “Vostok” was a brigade. Now he is in the Russian Guard, before the coup he was used as the commander of the Donetsk "Alpha". From the beginning, the SVO supervised the southern direction, advised the commanders of the RF Armed Forces, and helped them quickly get used to the war.

                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        you probably fed on rumors.

                        My friends and acquaintances fought and are still fighting. And our city is on the front line, I can hear what’s going on in Avdeevka from the city center.
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        are you sure you are older?

                        Sure . I am 57 years old .
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        So, dear sir, you fight for the sake of decency? if at all, you are fighting

                        I have been in the “Russian Spring” from the first days, and took part in the creation of the DPR... and was in captivity... and exchanged from captivity. If my health had allowed it, I would have fought now.
                        Why aren’t you in the trenches?
                        At least in Sumerian?
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        I am Russian

                        On the other side of the front, almost all of them are Russians, although some are recorded as “Ukrainians”. And they speak Russian and swear.
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        I am Russian

                        Hardly . Or mankurt.
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        do you live there?

                        Now yes .
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        why do you consider yourself older and smarter than me?

                        Because Khutzpah is not the mind.
                        Because adults don't make faces.
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        Khodakovsky’s authority for you,

                        Not really . But the source of information is one of many.
                        Dmitry Utkin - yes.
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        what he said about the combat readiness and ability to fight of the Donetsk police and all sorts of “tags”

                        Yes, only our corps were fired upon, with combat experience and real motivation at the beginning of the Northern Military District. That's why our veterans were stretched out in all directions... and even our mobs.
                  2. -2
                    7 December 2023 11: 03
                    "And Kharkov, Sumy, Kyiv, Kherson (and in that direction they first reached the suburbs of Nikolaev and Krivoy Rog) and Mariupol - this is an extension of the forces of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in many directions at once"
                    if the entire Russian Armed Forces had a meager amount of forces (the generals knew about their number, at least a little), what kind of Napoleon came up with the idea of ​​stretching them out like that?
                    "until Mariupol was cleared, offensive operations continued in all directions."
                    "I congratulate you, citizen, having lied!" laughing Can you read and understand what you read? Well, read about offensives, retreats, Istanbuls, etc., and then speak out
                    1. 0
                      7 December 2023 12: 14
                      What regiments did you serve in as a young man? In which academies did they learn military wisdom?
                      Quote: ZloyKot
                      What kind of Napoleon came up with the idea of ​​stretching them like that?

                      We knew about plans for a “sudden and decisive attack on the LDPR for almost a year - from March 2021. Almost everyone in Donetsk knew that no later than the beginning of March 2022. And the shelling of Donbass cities began already in January, constantly increasing. The evacuation of the population began (children , women, old people) - something unprecedented for us even since 2014. Then mobilization began.
                      The towers apparently at first wanted to scare them, as in 2021, by deploying troops along the northern border of the used one, but this time it didn’t work, the Armed Forces of Ukraine were not given the rear, and the shelling only intensified. And then they drew up a “plan on the knee”. Even many unit commanders did not know that the SVO would begin, especially on such a scale. And its beginning came as a surprise not only to the Ukrainian Armed Forces (they were still waiting and preparing), but also to the commanders of our corps (1st).
                      Everything else is known - they decided to use a “decisive approach” to frighten the clown, force the clown to flee to London, and bring/assist the arrival of a loyal government in Kyiv. It didn't work out. The clown was not allowed to escape; the military ready for a military coup was liquidated by English special forces and Azov militants controlled by them. The headquarters of the “southern group” of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in Mariupol was almost completely decapitated. So completely that they had to send NATO and Israeli officers and generals there. That is why the success of the offensive in the south was such - NATO generals simply did not have time to take the troops under effective control. And the density of artillery fire was such as I had never heard before
                      Why were there so few troops?
                      So, as much as there was, that’s what they collected - from the pine forest to the pine tree. After all, no one was going to conquer. They came in, scared us, and came out. And we had to fight.
                      And the stupidity, and the arrogance, and the stupor of “Army General Shoiga” who did not even serve in the emergency service took their toll. They simply didn’t have a “Plan B” and they... were stuck. And it seems they really were counting on the Istanbul agreement. And NATO threw up artillery, shells and a “foreign legion” numbering at least 50 snouts. And they struck near Kharkov... where we didn’t even have any troops - so, a curtain. And by that time our troops had been fighting for half a year without rotation or rest.
                      It was only then that they decided on “partial mobilization” with all the possible chaos.
                      Now everything is different. The supply has been established, there are enough troops, new equipment is coming, and the top officials realized that they must fight seriously.
                      But for this, we had to survive the “March of Justice”. To knock the stupidity and arrogance out of blockheads.
                      Now everything is serious.
                      1. -1
                        7 December 2023 16: 59
                        "Which academies taught military wisdom?"
                        Yes, in the same places as your Minister of Defense. but I can do this, but he can’t
                      2. 0
                        7 December 2023 22: 45
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        Yes, in the same places as your Minister of Defense.

                        This means an unimportant education, which, however, is immediately noticeable.
                      3. -1
                        7 December 2023 17: 00
                        "And the shelling of Donbass cities began in January, constantly increasing"
                        Actually, they started shelling them much earlier, almost from the age of 14
                      4. 0
                        7 December 2023 22: 49
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        Actually, they started shelling them much earlier, almost from the age of 14

                        Not them, but us. And not “almost”, but since the summer of 2014.
                        In just 8 years there were several truces. Of course, they were violated periodically, but until the beginning of January 2022 it was more or less calm. But from the first days of January it began and only grew.
                      5. -1
                        7 December 2023 17: 25
                        “We knew about plans for a “sudden and decisive attack on the LDPR for almost a year”
                        weren't you the ones who developed these plans?
                        "They wanted to scare us, as in 2021, by deploying troops along the northern border"
                        Actually, the northern border of Ukraine is the border with Belarus. it wouldn't hurt you to know that
                        "So completely that they had to send NATO and Israeli officers and generals there"
                        How long have I not heard these legends, since May 22, when none of the above-mentioned persons were found at Azovstal. They also didn’t find the 22-story underground structures at the plant, and they didn’t find much of the previously excitedly described horrors there. It turned out that everything was nonsense and crap, invented by military officers
                        “Why were there so few troops?
                        So, as much as there was, that’s how much we collected - from the pine forest to the pine tree."
                        Well, yes, the Ukrainians suddenly attacked, they didn’t give time to prepare
                        ". And NATO threw up artillery, shells and a “foreign legion” numbering at least 50 snouts. And they struck near Kharkov... where we didn’t even have any troops - so, a curtain."
                        these deliveries began much later. and then the West was still afraid of the Russian army. But how then were they going to take Kharkov if there were no troops there? after all, Kharkov is not Mariupol, and there were troops there, and in fair numbers. but it didn't work out
                        “Now everything is different. The supply has been established, there are enough troops, new equipment is coming, and at the top they realized that they need to fight seriously.”
                        Why then does the front stand still? or is this a serious war?
                      6. 0
                        7 December 2023 23: 21
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        weren't you the ones who developed these plans?

                        Our (DPR) intelligence obtained a tablet of a colonel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from an exercise at the beginning of 2021, when a future operation was being practiced. That's why we knew about their plans almost a year in advance. And everything was transferred to the towers.
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        Actually, the northern border of Ukraine is the border with Belarus.

                        Belgorod region ?
                        Voronezhskaya?
                        Bryansk?
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        I haven’t heard these legends for a long time, since May 22

                        Well, you listened to Arestovich’s tales.
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        none of the above mentioned persons were found at Azovstal

                        Found, captured, information covered and exchanged. Incl. on our pilots shot down, on other prisoners of war. Within the framework of the Istanbul agreements.
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        did not find any of the previously excitedly described horrors.

                        And the horrors of the Azov people against civilians were laid out by our soldiers, and military correspondents, and foreign journalists who ran with our soldiers.
                        But you were listening to Lucy then.
                      7. -1
                        8 December 2023 09: 41
                        “And our fighters also laid out the horrors of the Azov people on civilians”
                        I meant these fortifications, which all the military officers described so horribly. and I listen to what I need to cover the problem from all sides. you only listen to Konashenkov, and probably also Medvedev
                      8. +1
                        8 December 2023 10: 19
                        Combat in the city is generally a specific thing, where any house becomes a fortress. Moreover, when the enemy was initially preparing for just such a war - a war in cities. And our guys had to fight and clear almost every house. Moreover, the residents of these houses were hiding in the basements at that time, and this had to be kept in mind.
                        Have you heard about sea mines with remote detonation that were placed at intersections? I spoke with our soldiers in the hospital the day after their evacuation from Marik, participants in those battles. And then they came to me and told me. I was interested in how they moved, especially through open places. Many tactical techniques were born there during the battles.
                        I repeat - in the city any house turns into a fortress. Especially if through passages/breaks horizontally and vertically are organized there ahead of time with the installation of vertical pipes\"fire poles". When weapons and ammunition depots are prepared, when you can quickly move around such a house, changing positions and dodging fire.
                        You apparently have no idea what you are asking about.
                        So - despite a two-fold superiority in forces and not inferior technically, the enemy was knocked out, destroyed and captured. My friend's group destroyed a large enemy group in just one high-rise building, and there were a lot of such houses.
                      9. 0
                        7 December 2023 23: 49
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        "As much as there was, that's what we collected - from the forest to the pine tree"
                        Well, yes, the Ukrainians suddenly attacked, they didn’t give time to prepare

                        The strength of the Ground Forces of the RF Armed Forces was, together with conscripts, staff, rear, rembat, etc., about 280 thousand bayonets. All over the country. Airborne Forces - 50 thousand. Marine Marines - about 20 thousand. request A small army with powerful strategic nuclear forces - the desire for towers.
                        So from all this “abundance”, as well as the Russian Guard (total number 350 thousand) they scraped together 100 thousand bayonets. Yes, our (LDNR) two corps gave 60 thousand.
                        It was with these forces (160 thousand) that they undertook to disrupt the offensive of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and force the fascists to peace. From six directions. A group of about 30 thousand approached Kiev. The Armed Forces of Ukraine had the same number there, plus in the first three weeks Kyiv alone mobilized from 70 to 100 thousand. Plus troops were transferred from the interior regions. So, even theoretically, with such forces and such a balance of forces, there could be no talk of any assault and “capture of Kyiv.”
                        they simply struck first when it became clear that this time they could no longer scare.
                        But the Clown was not allowed to escape. And the nonsense of some and the improvisation of others began. As a result, the Russian Armed Forces advanced against enemy forces that were many times superior until the fall. And in September, under the Ferris Wheel on the day of Moscow, a front collapsed in the Kharkov region.. With the ratio of forces of the parties in that area being 1 to 7-10.
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        these deliveries began much later. and then the West was still afraid of the Russian army

                        These deliveries began in the summer, and the collapse of the front in the Kharkov region happened in early September. Then the “Haymars”, and “Caesars”, and “three axes”, and German self-propelled guns appeared.
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        Why then does the front stand still?

                        And who steps in the mud? We only had frost for two days when the first snow fell. Everything has its time . The utilization of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from defense occurs in a loss ratio of 1 to 5\1 to 8. Good arithmetic. I like . By spring, the troops will already have a sufficient number of self-propelled guns "Coalition-SV", "Malva" and new heavy artillery brigades on "Malki". And all strike aviation will master the use of AUAP with UMPC.
                        That's when everything will begin in earnest. Or maybe earlier.
                        In any case, next year the fate of your used car will be decided finally.
                      10. +1
                        8 December 2023 09: 49
                        "These deliveries began in the summer, and the collapse of the front in the Kharkov region happened"
                        and near Kiev when did the collapse happen? also in the fall, against the backdrop of supplies of Western weapons?
                        “According to the decree of November 17, 2017, the staff strength of the Russian Armed Forces was 1 units, including 902 military personnel.”
                        as you can see, it’s not 280 thousand at all. from such a quantity it was possible to create the necessary grouping, even if we weed out accountants and cache
                      11. 0
                        8 December 2023 11: 30
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        and near Kiev when did the collapse happen?

                        Are we quoting Arestovich again?
                        Well, let’s remember WHEN and on whose initiative the negotiations began in Minsk? The invitation there seemed to be on the 3rd day of the SVO. And the conditions were simple - recognition of the independence of the LDPR (at that time there was no talk of inclusion in Russia) and Crimea as Russian, as well as renunciation of NATO membership, no foreign bases, and about “condemnation of Nazism.” And there would not be SUCH victims.
                        On the 3rd day they invited me to negotiations!
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        near Kyiv when the collapse happened

                        They were withdrawn from near Kyiv in accordance with the Istanbul Agreements, which the Ukrainian side signed. They say, “come to meet us, how can we tell people when your troops are near Kiev. That’s why they called this withdrawal a “Gesture of Goodwill.” In Russia, everyone stood on their hind legs - what a game. But this was the fulfillment of their part of those agreements .
                        But as your representative with an American passport said: “We just ditched them.”
                        So Putin’s words “We were cheated” - it turns out that this is just a quote from your kenar.
                        Quote: ZloyKot
                        “According to the decree of November 17, 2017, the staff strength of the Russian Armed Forces was 1 units, including 902 military personnel.”

                        You look at the types of troops. lol It will be much more interesting there. Russia not only has Ground Forces, but also a fairly large Navy (after all, four fleets and the Caspian Flotilla, with Coastal Defense Forces), Marine Corps (then not numerous), Aerospace Forces (these are the Air Force, Air Defense Forces and Space Forces). And the number of ground forces of the RF Armed Forces in the state was only 280 thousand. Together with the Airborne Forces and MP = 350 thousand for the entire territory of the Russian Federation. Half of them are conscripts. Russia was not at all preparing for war, and the bourgeoisie did not want to spend money on a larger army.
                        So at the beginning of the Northern Military District they scraped together 100 thousand, together with the Russian Guard, the Special Operations Command and even the FSB special forces.
                        Volunteer battalions began to be pulled up along the way and they only compensated for the losses. This was evidenced (about the size of the SVO group) by both American and British intelligence. That is why they had confidence in “quick victory on the battlefield.”
                      12. -1
                        8 December 2023 11: 57
                        That’s why the most dangerous period was from September to April-May, while mobilized units and formations were being formed. While they were being prepared, armed and provided with everything they needed. When the mess was revealed in the Home Front Service.
                        Now everything is different. The number of the Ground Forces alone exceeds 1 million bayonets, the number of Airborne Forces and Marines almost doubles. The number of the Russian Guard is also growing, which now includes its own “volunteer units and formations”, which include a core from Wagner.
                        The military-industrial complex started working, there was normal ammunition supply, UAVs, communications equipment, excellent equipment.
                        why don't they attack?
                        What for ? Why bother when the Sumerians themselves are trying to dispose of them?
                        And expanding the Small Army from a ridiculous 280 thousand to almost one and a half million is not such an easy task. They must be provided with command personnel, combat coordination must be carried out, and they must be equipped with everything necessary. If the tiny 280 thousand had 2300 tanks, then how many should one and a half million have? What about the arts? Moreover, it is correct, and not towed. Long-range, and not somehow. With an abundance of high-precision projectiles, and not with ancient cast iron. With counter-battery countermeasures and an abundance of reconnaissance and attack UAVs. The Aerospace Forces must master bombing of UPAB with UMPC. All air regiments. And a couple of nuclear missile carriers during this time are by no means superfluous.
                        Moreover, the entire increase in the size of the Army occurs exclusively at the expense of volunteer contract soldiers.
                        And if Mobilization happens tomorrow (you never know what NATO will think of), then everything will happen this time much more organized, more coordinated, with prepared material, with ready lists, places of deployment and deployment, with ready command staff and the necessary weapons.
                        And the satellite constellation is deployed - hundreds of satellites are waiting for their turn.
                        So what's the hurry?
                      13. 0
                        9 January 2024 11: 28
                        Quote: bayard
                        And the stupidity, and the arrogance, and the stupor of “Army General Shoiga” who did not even serve in the emergency service took their toll.
                        Our Minister of Defense, and not the General Staff, developed the SVO plan and are making adjustments to it?
                      14. 0
                        9 January 2024 14: 14
                        Quote: Stanislav_Shishkin
                        Our Minister of Defense, and not the General Staff, developed the SVO plan and are making adjustments to it?

                        No General Staff would have planned a (special) operation with such a force. Only one person could force professionals to launch an offensive from five (!!) directions with a 100-strong group (+ 60 thousand from the mobilized corps of Donbass) without mobilizing (at least volunteers)...
                        I hope not to see him in the future cabinet of ministers.
                      15. -2
                        9 January 2024 18: 05
                        Quote: bayard
                        The General Staff would not have planned a (special) operation with such a force level
                        Shoigu was not an imbecile and an old apparatchik: he would not steer where he a) should not, b) does not understand and c) could face serious responsibility for interfering in the work of those who should and understand (just don’t talk about “Putin’s cronies” , Putin is also in his right mind, he understands that history will bring all such garbage to the public).
                      16. 0
                        10 January 2024 01: 57
                        Quote: Stanislav_Shishkin
                        Putin is also of sound mind, he understands that history will bring all such garbage to the public).

                        Property and power in the newly proclaimed Russian Federation were divided before Putin was appointed prime minister. So this concept is collective. And he himself is just a manager.
                        But Shoiga is a member of the family and, as they say, the illegitimate son of EBN himself. So he can make the decision. Otherwise, who and how would appoint him minister from a young age, creating a new ministry from several structures and intensively promoting him all this time. In addition, the Maltese knights do not produce anyone at all.
                      17. -1
                        10 January 2024 10: 36
                        Quote: bayard
                        Shoiga is a family member and, as they say, the illegitimate son of EBN himself
                        Okay, not Lieutenant Schmidt.
          2. ada
            +2
            9 January 2024 12: 05
            Quote: bayard
            ...Alas, this is so. And this is entirely the merit of such outstanding pillars of state and military thought as Shoigu and Gerasimov - apologists of the Small Army with disdain for novelty and common sense.
            Now we have trench warfare a la WWI. ...

            Greetings! How are you holding up there? I would like to hope that the situation in the cities will improve, but I am afraid that this is not possible now.
            The characters you mentioned here are not accidental, but you went too far with their role in military development fellow I believe that an understanding of the processes of transformation of the RF Armed Forces and the conditions for their development, starting in 1998, will become known and understandable to a wide range of interested people. But, it is important to remain among the living at this moment. Knowing that we are the same age, this becomes not a simple question, but I specifically indicated the year.
            I hope that Donetsk will not suffer the same fate as others.
            1. +1
              9 January 2024 14: 19
              Quote: ada
              Greetings! How are you holding up there?

              hi Let's hold on, the bone is just not healing well.
          3. ada
            0
            9 January 2024 12: 05
            Quote: bayard
            ...Alas, this is so. And this is entirely the merit of such outstanding pillars of state and military thought as Shoigu and Gerasimov - apologists of the Small Army with disdain for novelty and common sense.
            Now we have trench warfare a la WWI. ...

            Greetings! How are you holding up there? I would like to hope that the situation in the cities will improve, but I am afraid that this is not possible now.
            The characters you mentioned here are not accidental, but you went too far with their role in military development fellow I believe that an understanding of the processes of transformation of the RF Armed Forces and the conditions for their development, starting in 1998, will become known and understandable to a wide range of interested people. But, it is important to remain among the living at this moment. Knowing that we are the same age, this becomes not a simple question, but I specifically indicated the year.
            I hope that Donetsk will not suffer the same fate as others.
      2. -1
        4 December 2023 18: 36
        "Razing cities and towns into dust by shooting across the area and incurring huge losses? Is this what you propose together with the leadership?"
        Well, this is now a new tactic. only guns, only 152mm, only by area. that is why the result is such that only the staver is happy
        1. 0
          5 December 2023 09: 59
          If the captain does not know where to sail, then the ship loops and deviates from the desired course! And it is not a fact that the chosen goal will be achieved... This is what is happening now. And the joyful dancing with a tambourine around the historical bonfire, in which millions of our people burned, only confirms this.
          1. +1
            6 December 2023 03: 35
            Eco, you got carried away from purely military-technical topics.
    3. +1
      21 February 2024 00: 50
      I agree completely! Good night everyone!
  2. +4
    4 December 2023 04: 12
    Analytics is an interesting thing, just a month ago I read an article about the death of large calibers, but now it’s the future. True, it seems to me that reconnaissance and accuracy are also important for artillery. And at least there were problems with this before
    1. +7
      4 December 2023 13: 14
      I’m thinking - with modern means of reconnaissance and destruction, who will allow the opponent to concentrate an entire brigade of heavy artillery in one place? And even more so - to supply it. IMHO - they will identify and cover with everything they can on the way. You can’t use such a colossus covertly..
      1. -1
        6 December 2023 03: 50
        Quote: paul3390
        With modern means of reconnaissance and destruction, who will allow the opponent to concentrate an entire brigade of heavy artillery in one place?

        So there is no need to drive this brigade out as a herd. We have already learned in the Northern Military District (and in the Donbass even earlier) - dispersed advancement of each gun to its position and coordinated, concentrated fire on a single command. The Armed Forces of Ukraine already worked with artillery in 2016.
        In addition, do not forget about the fire range of the Malka. And if a guided high-precision active-missile projectile appears (and it will definitely appear - “Krasnopol” in 203 mm caliber is by no means a problem), then max. the range of such guns will be about 60, or even 70 km. , versus 50 km. Now . Not to mention accuracy.
        As for the "Tulip" mortars... these are exclusively siege weapons for dismantling the fortifications of an already surrounded enemy. Because its maximum range is 20 km. But it has long been accompanied by high-precision adjustable active-reactive mines of special power.
        In addition, already in the spring, the troops will receive divisions of our bow self-propelled guns "Coalition-SV", which will take on counter-battery combat from distances inaccessible to the enemy.

        "Everything in the World will change
        The past will soon end.
        He will come, he will be “kind”, “affectionate”
        Nuclear scribe."
        - joke .
  3. +17
    4 December 2023 04: 45
    why we lost the Soviet-Finnish war.

    I would like to know how many reparations the USSR paid, how many square kilometers of territory it lost, at what distance from the borders of the USSR it was allowed to keep troops, as well as types of troops, etc.?
    1. 0
      4 December 2023 06: 31
      All the conquests of the USSR were lost by the GMS and EBN - the main enemies of the people and the country.
      And today we dare to “bark” only at those who have the audacity to point out to us our “achievements” and “advantages”, and... we keep the eternal memory of those who led us by the hand into the chair...
      1. 0
        4 December 2023 12: 12
        Quote: ROSS 42
        All the conquests of the USSR were lost by the GMS and EBN - the main enemies of the people and the country.
        And their deputies and state security didn’t see what was happening at all? And the CPSU as a party is “innocent”. Is there at least one case in history when two people would be democratically elevated to positions that would allow them to merge a large and powerful country? There are no such posts in a democracy. Gorbachev and Yeltsin were supported by crowds of thousands in the squares and a public of millions because everyone was fed up with the uncontested, inert oligarchic power of the CPSU, and there were no democratic institutions in the country. Despite the fact that these people were fooled and did not understand which way the wind was blowing and who was paying for the organization of these demonstrations. Oligarchy is the weakest form of government because it allows such somersaults to be carried out in the country.
      2. +4
        4 December 2023 17: 16
        Quote: ROSS 42
        All the conquests of the USSR were lost by the GMS and EBN - the main enemies of the people and the country.

        Seriously? Just like that, two people came and destroyed the entire USSR?
        Attributing the collapse of the USSR to Marked and Alcoholicule is the same. why attribute the Second World War to Hitler.
        The union was brought down by collective efforts. At the top is the party and economic elite, who are tired of the position of the underground millionaire Koreiko. In the national republics there was also a desire to escape from the control of the Center and become, albeit small, independent leaders.
        And from below... from below, the Union was brought down by those who were tired of seeing how the gap between words and deeds was widening every day. When from high stands they broadcast about exceeding plans and steady growth, and in the regions, already in the late 70s, coupons for meat and butter were introduced. When from the high stands they shout about “the people and the party are united”, and, leaving them, they go to a special dacha in a special vehicle through a special distributor, and the children of party bosses, “major boys” ©, go to special institutes.
        If EBN is to blame for the collapse of the USSR, then we should not forget about those to whom he owes the opportunity to do this. About those who elected him to the post of President of the RSFSR - 57,3% of the 76% of voters who came to the elections. He elected, despite all the opposition of the union structures. About those who wrote letters en masse in his defense after the well-known publications and video of EBN’s visit to the USA. About those who went to rallies “For Boris” - remember the same Manezhnaya 1991.
        1. +1
          4 December 2023 17: 48
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Seriously? Just like that, two people came and destroyed the entire USSR?

          Seriously! Like this! It is their signatures that appear on documents indicating their role as enemies of the people!
          It’s clear without any interpreters that they worked in a group that included senior officials from the CPSU, the KGB, and even the USSR Armed Forces, and besides, the Thieves did not fail to raise their share... The structure of the current three hundred is painfully similar commercial banks to the common fund system.
          Moreover, I can assume 99% that anyone who sets the goal of changing the current situation, removing the power of money from the country and external management of the economy through the Central Bank, will have to study the experience of VOSR.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          then we should not forget about those to whom he owes the opportunity to do this. About those who elected him to the post of President of the RSFSR - 57,3% of the 76% of voters who came to the elections.

          Let's not talk about hungry and deprived voters who, under the influence of the media (and TV in particular), wanted to change something and believe in something, nor about those thimble-makers who operated at polling stations and in privatization commissions .
          The consumer society has been cultivated for too long. For too long the morality of the builder of communism was forced to be accepted. as some kind of joke for fanatics of this very non-existent utopian system...
          1. +2
            5 December 2023 10: 26
            Quote: ROSS 42
            Seriously! Like this! It is their signatures that appear on documents indicating their role as enemies of the people!

            Vanya (in coachman's Armenian jacket):
            “Dad! who built this road?
            Dad (in a red-lined coat):
            “Count Pyotr Andreevich Kleinmichel, darling!”
            © Nikolay Nekrasov. Railway.
            Quote: ROSS 42
            It is clear without any interpreters that they worked in a group that included senior officials from the CPSU, the KGB, and even the USSR Armed Forces, and in addition, the Thieves did not fail to raise their share.

            Not thieves, but respected members of society, workers in socialist trade and the service sector in general. smile
            And "band" is a huge understatement. In 1991, as in February 1917, the old system was brought down “from above” by the overwhelming majority of the elite, which was cramped within the framework of a single state and the socialist model. Moreover, even those who would have become nobody in the new reality fell down - because all their power and influence in this reality turned into nothing.
            Quote: ROSS 42
            Let's not talk about hungry and deprived voters who, under the influence of the media (and TV in particular), wanted to change something and believe in something

            Yes, yes, yes... poor deceived voters. Those same voters who, over the 70 years of Soviet power, have developed the skill of reading between the lines and complete disbelief in official propaganda. The same voters who didn’t even believe the video of EBN’s speech in the USA - and with a wave of indignation they demolished the editor-in-chief of Pravda (the organ of the CPSU Central Committee).
            Quote: ROSS 42
            nor about those thimblekeepers who operated at polling stations and in privatization commissions.

            What do scammers at polling stations and the privatization commission have to do with it? We are not talking about the 1996 elections, but about the 1991 elections. They took place at a time when EBN did not suit many people “at the top”. Here one could rather believe in the falsifications against.
            1. 0
              7 December 2023 19: 05
              In many respects you are right, they tried to bring down the system collectively, the citizens themselves also participated in this. But the structure and territory of a country are somewhat different matters, aren’t they? And you kind of mix them. The USSR destroyed Ukrainian nationalism with the support of the Baltic and, in general, the national policy of the CPSU. And he finally sentenced the Soviet Union to MSG when he announced the need to renegotiate the union treaty. The construction and the union treaty are very different circumstances.
        2. +2
          4 December 2023 18: 49
          Quote: Alexey RA
          About those who went to rallies “For Boris” - remember the same Manezhnaya 1991.
          I specially came to Moscow early in the morning to see with my own eyes what was going on there, came to Red Square and accidentally ended up at this rally. Saw. The first three rows are organized workers of Moscow markets; The “squad leader” from time to time took a bottle of vodka out of her bag and poured it only for her own people, and for those who weakly shouted “Boris fight!”, “Teddy bear to the North!” etc., (chants were often launched not into the microphone, but quietly from the stage on two semi-trailers) threatened not to pour any more; the traders and janitors from the front rows, their throats flooded, shouted with all their might, and they were supported by a crowd of one hundred thousand.
    2. +3
      4 December 2023 18: 48
      "I would like to know"
      Is this what you want to find out from the staver? How would he know about this?
      “All Finnish million-dollar bunkers turned into dust. And the heavy KV and Churchill tanks completed the work of the artillerymen.”
      In general, the Churchill was not very heavy, 38 tons, and it had a 75mm cannon. and they weren’t there. but the staver doesn’t know about it
  4. +4
    4 December 2023 06: 06
    Oh, Hedgehog, during the Finnish War they could not break the Manerheim line on the move, not because there was not enough artillery, but because of poor training of the troops and especially because of the terrible interaction between the branches of the military.
    The Germans broke through the Maginot Line, with the help of anti-aircraft guns and sappers, and at 41 they also dealt with our fortifications.
    1. KCA
      +4
      4 December 2023 08: 49
      The Germans did not break through the Maginot Line, they bypassed it through Belgium and went to the rear
      1. -4
        4 December 2023 10: 19
        Your information about the company in 40 is not complete; the Germans broke through the Maginot Line.
        1. KCA
          +1
          4 December 2023 13: 14
          They broke through, but from the Belgian side, from the rear, and not from the French side, read for yourself, the Internet is full of articles on this topic, naturally, when they come between the buns, the attack is more effective, and the guns from the forts only fire in one direction, there is no way to turn them around
          1. +1
            4 December 2023 13: 21
            Just take it and read it, it’s not difficult at all, type the Maginot Line break into a search engine and read how it happened
  5. -3
    4 December 2023 06: 26
    We, as we once did during the Great Patriotic War, finally understood the importance of artillery of great and special power.

    A good thought comes later!!!
    So we will discover the wonderful world of tactical nuclear weapons of low and ultra-low power with a fast half-life of the radioactive substances included in their composition and scanty (almost harmless after several weeks) radioactive contamination of the area...
    Otherwise, on May 9, we show everyone a sheathed nuclear club, which even children are not afraid of, not to mention dogs that bark...
  6. +12
    4 December 2023 06: 49
    So, have we resumed the production of malka and tulips? The warehouses and reserves of the USSR are not enough for everything. What did the brigades gather to complete?
    1. +4
      4 December 2023 07: 39
      Quote from: FoBoss_VM
      So, have we resumed the production of malka and tulips? The warehouses and reserves of the USSR are not enough for everything. What did the brigades gather to complete?

      Five point question. We'll find out the answer soon. It is obvious that it will be something else. The basic chassis has not been produced for a long time, the plant that produced them has died...
      As an option, remove all guns of the required caliber from storage, remove the artillery part from them and place it on a moving chassis, both tracked and wheeled. Develop control systems for them and provide this to new brigades until the new systems arrive.
      1. +2
        4 December 2023 18: 52
        "both tracked and wheeled"
        this caliber on wheels? who will carry him? Kamaz?
        “Develop control systems for them and provide this to new brigades until the new systems arrive.”
        so it will take 15 years, at current rates, and 10 years for production, there is no platform either, it needs to be done. and when will “new systems” be born?
        1. 0
          7 December 2023 19: 10
          It’s also possible on wheels, but the range won’t be the same. The product, if I'm not mistaken, is from the Barricades plant.
  7. +5
    4 December 2023 07: 20
    Who should we believe, Staver or Skomorokhov? One says there is no way to use a large-caliber weapon, the other says that its time is over, or they agreed to write articles that are directly opposite in meaning and see how people will comment here? And regarding “...there is something from...”, here is a question. The production of these artillery systems ended in 1990, they produced enough, but a lot of time has passed. Hanging out with what we have, calling it by different names and reassigning divisions? So this is garbage on vegetable oil. Again we are riding on the legacy of the USSR. Talking room and paper translation.
    1. +7
      4 December 2023 08: 09
      Who to believe: Staver or Skomorokhov,
      The authors are worth each other, the quality is the same. But such a passage as
      we lost the Soviet-Finnish war.
      I didn’t even expect it from Staver.
      1. +1
        4 December 2023 09: 34
        we lost the Soviet-Finnish war. But now he has morally uplifting articles about the Northern Military District, and what about the USSR, there are “galoshes” from which new units will be formed.
    2. +2
      4 December 2023 14: 20
      Quote: Alexey 1970
      Who to believe: Staver or Skomorokhov,

      1. ada
        +1
        9 January 2024 10: 27
        Well, you can still help me, including on the abrambema (not completely, of course) Yes
  8. +7
    4 December 2023 07: 29
    The artillerymen will tell you why we lost the Soviet-Finnish War.
    Lost??????? The author has a VERY interesting view of the history of our country and not only of the times of “tales and legends”. Which country asked for peace and made territorial concessions? THE USSR?
    The 17th brigade is forced to have a mixed composition. Since we do not have the required number of artillery systems such as “Tulips” to form a separate brigade. Yes, and the use of “Malok” to cover the actions of “Tulips, that’s something... For such work, “Msta” or “Hyacinth” are better suited”
    1. +9
      4 December 2023 08: 49
      These brigades were also mixed before, when the USSR had enough Tulips and Peonies. It’s just that such brigades do not operate in full force. I served in the army artillery brigade of the 2nd division D.20 and 2 2S5. The systems are only the same in caliber. The tasks are different and the ammunition is different. It was assumed that 1-2 divisions would be assigned to divisions, at least that’s how they worked out in the exercises
      1. +4
        4 December 2023 11: 20
        In the USSR, BM artillery brigades (and there were not many of them - 7-8 in total) were of both a mixed composition (2 Pion divisions and 2 Tulip divisions) and a homogeneous composition (all 4 Pion divisions). Perhaps there were 4 divisions of Tulips, but I haven’t seen any information about them.
        1. +2
          4 December 2023 11: 33
          I did an internship in Ukraine in the Odessa region. in the BM GVGK brigade it was mixed, and according to the staff, we only taught this type at the school. With BM parts, incl. I have not encountered similar people in my service.
          1. +2
            4 December 2023 17: 20
            There was a 13th artillery brigade in Lapichi (Belarus) - 3 or 4 Pion divisions
            384th artillery brigade in Plunge (Lithuania) - 4 Pion divisions
            188th artillery brigade in Shmilchyno (Carpathian district) - 4 Pion divisions
    2. 0
      4 December 2023 14: 16
      Quote: svp67
      Lost??????? ...Which country asked for peace and made territorial concessions?
      With the Finns - no, we didn’t lose. But, in my opinion, this victory is difficult to be proud of. An ambivalent attitude: on the one hand, Karelia, Ladoga, but, on the other, the shortcomings of the army were revealed, which we did not have time to quickly eliminate. And these weak points not only encouraged Hitler to attack the USSR in the hope of a blitzkrieg, but also contributed to his significant advance into the interior of the country. Didn't the General Staff analysts see them before the Finnish war?
      1. +3
        4 December 2023 17: 26
        Quote: Stanislav_Shishkin
        Didn't the General Staff analysts see them before the Finnish war?

        And before the Finnish War, the Red Army did not have armed clashes of this scale with the real combat use of heterogeneous forces.
        The question is, what especially prevented our troops from adapting to the conditions of the war in Finland? It seems to me that they were particularly prevented by the previous campaign of psychology created in the troops and the command structure - we will throw our hats. The Polish campaign terribly damaged us, it spoiled us. Entire articles were written and speeches were said that our Red Army is invincible, that it has no equal, that it has everything, there are no shortages, there was and does not exist, that our army is invincible. In general, there have been no invincible armies in history. The best armies that beat here and there, they suffered defeats. We, comrades, boasted that our army was invincible, that we could throw all our hats, there were no shortages. In practice, there is no such army and never will be.

        ...during the entire existence of Soviet power, we have not yet waged a real modern war. Minor episodes in Manchuria, near the lake. Hasan or in Mongolia - this is nonsense, this is not a war, these are individual episodes in a strictly limited area. Japan was afraid of starting a war, we didn’t want that either, and some testing of strength on the patch showed that Japan had failed. They had 2-3 divisions and we have 2-3 divisions in Mongolia, the same number in Khasan. Our army has not yet waged a real, serious war. The civil war is not a real war, because it was a war without artillery, without aviation, without tanks, without mortars. Without all this, what kind of serious war is this? This was a special war, not a modern one. We were poorly armed, poorly dressed, poorly fed, but we still defeated the enemy, who had much more weapons, who was much better armed, because the spirit mainly played a role here.
        So, what prevented our commanding assembly from waging a war in Finland in a new way, not in the type of civil war, but in a new way? In my opinion, the cult of tradition and experience of the civil war interfered. As our command structure is regarded: have you participated in the civil war? No, I did not participate. Go away. Did he participate? Participated. Give him here, he has a lot of experience and more.

        © the best friend of athletes
        And during the exercises, year after year, a ballet was played out, led by intermediaries. And even in such conditions, the army men managed to screw up - but these were considered individual shortcomings that were not allowed to tarnish the bright face of the Red Army, which was steadily improving its combat and political training from year to year. Even the systemic shortcomings of the Polish campaign and Khalkhin Gol were attributed to individual shortcomings of specific units.
        The SFV, with its scale of forces involved, made it possible to evaluate the country’s armed forces as a whole. And it was not possible to sweep these conclusions under the rug - because bickering and shifting responsibility the debriefing took place in the presence of senior political leadership.
        1. +1
          4 December 2023 17: 49
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Quote: Stanislav_Shishkin
          Didn't the General Staff analysts see them before the Finnish war?
          And before the Finnish War, the Red Army did not have armed clashes of this scale with the real combat use of heterogeneous forces.
          That's right. But the analyst’s task, in my opinion, is not only and not so much to find problems when they have already emerged “in all their glory.” In peacetime, he must analyze the situation and its possible consequences against the background of a forecast of upcoming and probable conflicts, so that problems are formulated and resolved before, and not after.
          1. 0
            5 December 2023 11: 25
            Quote: Stanislav_Shishkin
            But the analyst’s task, in my opinion, is not only and not so much to find problems when they have already emerged “in all their glory.” In peacetime, he must analyze the situation and its possible consequences against the background of a forecast of upcoming and probable conflicts, so that problems are formulated and resolved before, and not after.

            What's the point? An analyst analyzed the problem of low training of the rank and file of the Red Army, both tactical and technical, and submitted the results to the top. And then this problem is solved taking into account the limited military budget and reliance on the consciousness of the soldier. And it turns out... that nothing works out. For normal training, territorial divisions need to be staffed, but there is no money for this until the end of the 30s. Cadre divisions need competent junior commanders - but there are few of them, because the level of basic training is low. Landfills are needed, but their equipment can only be done independently. You need gasoline and shells/cartridges - but you have to save them:
            We need to add, Comrade Marshal, a few rounds of ammunition for infantry fire training. The 1938 fire training course was designed based largely on saving ammunition. Therefore, in the field of shot production technology, we did not achieve the results that we need. In particular, we did not finalize the issues of shooting while standing and kneeling, trying to compensate for them only with the preparation methodology.
            © Smirnov A.K., Lieutenant General, Inspector General of the Red Army Infantry
            How are we now preparing tank troops for firefighting? Currently, even in 1941, it is planned to release 6 shells per year per tank, and eight tasks must be completed.
            © Fedorenko Ya. N., Lieutenant General of Tank Forces, Head of the Main Armored Directorate of the Red Army
            And all this is superimposed with an ideological component: a Soviet fighter is a conscious fighter, therefore it is almost impossible to apply disciplinary measures to him, only persuasion. Otherwise, you can come under analysis along party lines, as a zealot of the old order. The Disciplinary Charter came into force only in 1940.
            And also about hegemonic a fighter needs to be taken care of. A third of the days a year are weekends, there is no training. Until SFV, at temperatures below -15, entering the field is prohibited.
            1. +2
              5 December 2023 14: 13
              Framed and framed parts are different concepts. It was the territorial divisions that were framed.
              1. +1
                6 December 2023 15: 21
                Quote: Sergej1972
                Framed and framed parts are different concepts.

                That's what I'm writing about. The USSR of the late 30s could only afford 25 personnel SD and State Duma - from Kamchatka to Leningrad. The rest is territories.
                Quote: Sergej1972
                It was the territorial divisions that were cropped.

                They were the skeletons of cropped divisions. The regular number of SD (territorial) in peacetime is 2100 people.
                According to the results of inspections of territorial divisions in the second half of the 30s, it turned out that during the time between training camps, both the assigned privates and the permanent command staff are almost completely dequalified, so that for mobilized territorial formations to achieve combat readiness it takes approximately the same amount of time as for the formation of a new division .
            2. 0
              5 December 2023 14: 38
              Quote: Alexey RA
              And then this problem is solved taking into account the limited military budget and reliance on the consciousness of the soldier... “We need to add, Comrade Marshal, a few cartridges for infantry fire training.”
              Well, yes, solving the problems uncovered by the analyst is the task of the father-commanders. When a lieutenant general asks the marshal to allocate a few extra rounds of ammunition per soldier for fire training of the infantry, this, of course, is tough - a situation of extreme need. The analyst could not refute stories about the fact that the consciousness of a Soviet soldier was at least somewhat higher than the consciousness of a soldier in the Russian army before the revolution, without arousing suspicion of “anti-Sovietism.”
              Quote: Alexey RA
              And all this is superimposed with an ideological component: a Soviet fighter is a conscious fighter, therefore it is almost impossible to apply disciplinary measures to him, only persuasion.
              This is the first time I've heard about this. A full range of disciplinary measures from being assigned out of turn to 2 years of disbat was present and applied. Without any persuasion. They didn’t use spitzrutens/ramrods to drive people through the ranks; this was abolished by Emperor Alexander II and is still not practiced.
              1. +2
                6 December 2023 15: 25
                Quote: Stanislav_Shishkin
                This is the first time I've heard about this. A full range of disciplinary measures from being assigned out of turn to 2 years of disbat was present and applied.

                STALIN. There is no such charter. There seems to be a clause in the charter, they say, I haven’t read this charter, that all fighters are obliged to carry out all orders, except those that are clearly criminal. This clause will do it all. No reservations should be given. All orders are mandatory and must be completed.
                BATOV. By this I want to say that the sense of responsibility among our soldiers and commanders must be increased in every possible way and adjustments must be made in terms of responsibility to our disciplinary charter. Today, our fighters are predominantly of the age of the October Revolution, which creates for us every opportunity to cope with these tasks.
                VOICE. In other words, comrade. Batov, we need a disciplinary charter, which we don’t have now.
                BATS. That's right, which we don’t have right now.
                STALIN. There is no such charter?
                BATS. We do not have.
                VOTE. There is a disciplinary charter of 1925, signed by Bubnov.
                STALIN. Ay, ah, ah, how do you endure this?
                BATOV. I believe that it is necessary to write down in our disciplinary regulations that the soldier and the commander are responsible for the knowledge and performance of the service, as they said here about former non-commissioned officers. There it was necessary to know the service, which we will not find in our disciplinary regulations or even in the regulations of the internal service.
                I believe that the issue of discipline will need to be posed in such a way that, perhaps, a small part of the fighters who can be classified as negligent will be subject to disciplinary sanctions in the form of arrests, and also special correctional and disciplinary battalions will be created in order to put an end to laxity, which we have.
                VOICE. Penalties.
                © Meeting on the results of the SPS
    3. ada
      0
      9 January 2024 10: 47
      Quote: svp67
      ... the brigade is forced to have a mixed composition. ...
      Not quite, of course, these are the calculated parameters of the organizational structure of the formation for the manifestation of the performance characteristics embedded in the samples of weapons and military equipment and the tactics of conducting combat warfare (methods of application/use, order of maintenance, support and supply, etc.) in the planned operation (something averaged from the representations of military personnel in the theater of operations (direction) for some estimated period of time or stage of the war (as an example, the first year of the war)).
  9. +1
    4 December 2023 07: 34
    We would develop new systems of such calibers, taking into account all the pros and cons of the existing ones.
  10. +5
    4 December 2023 07: 55
    “These operations are still studied in military academies around the world.”
    I always pay attention to the level of education of our authorities and commanders. And if they give their secretaries the rank of generals, then it’s understandable why it only now dawned on them. Thanks to the communists for making so many different weapons. What would they fight with now? And these, as they learned, will create.
    1. +3
      4 December 2023 09: 34
      But what can we talk about if the former Ministry of Defense A.E. Serdyukov calmly continues to destroy the defense capability in his position in the KLA. Someone is covering for him. Not even a speck of dust fell then, Zhenya Vasilyeva took the rap for everything. And by the way, also with little blood.
      1. +1
        4 December 2023 16: 02
        Thieves should be in prison. This applies to the State Duma, the Federation Council and the government.
  11. +3
    4 December 2023 08: 52
    And the author is not at all friendly with history. Somehow I didn’t even imagine that the “winner” was Finland. Why did they give up and give up the territory?
  12. +6
    4 December 2023 09: 05
    It's chaoticly written. In fact, neither Tulip nor Malka correspond to what the author began the article with. Tons of shells??? Of course not. Old, proven guns. But not 300+ mm.
    It also has a disadvantage in the form of low mobility and rate of fire.
    And in order to dismantle the fortifications, the Point needs to be reanimated.
    1. +1
      7 December 2023 21: 00
      "Pion" and "Malka" stand between the 152 mm systems and "Tochka". It is somewhat wrong to build competition between them.
      1. 0
        8 December 2023 09: 11
        Part of what the author wrote is devoted to weapons - large-caliber monsters. 300 mm or more. For the destruction of fortifications, this is of course wonderful, but as history teaches us, it is irrational.
        The tulip is ideal for its purpose.
        Malka and Peony are good because they exist. But they have many disadvantages.
        And everything that is more rational to do not in the form of shells but in the form of missiles.
        And the trouble with Malka is precisely that she is nothing more than a competitor to the 125 mm caliber. Less flexible but with a larger projectile. Concrete crumbles better than 152 mm, but if the concrete was made by understanding people and the power of a 203 mm projectile is not enough. And low mobility and rate of fire make long-term shelling impossible. The enemy's counter-battery will not work.
  13. +6
    4 December 2023 09: 08
    I don’t understand why heavy artillery is needed in the presence of inexpensive adjustable aerial bombs.
    Price 155 mm. projectile weighing 50 kg. $800
    Price JDAM-ER weighing 230 kg. $40 thousand.

    A kilogram of a high-precision air bomb “delivered” directly to the target is only 10 times more expensive than a projectile that will land in a large dispersion ellipse.
    In addition, the effectiveness of one bomb against buildings and fortifications is much higher than that of slightly lighter shells.

    The same applies to domestic FAB-250 (and even more so FAB-500) and 203 mm. Peony shells.
    1. 0
      4 December 2023 13: 04
      There is currently no way to use the full potential of the VKS. So they are trying to replace the bomb with a projectile.. The replacement is of course so-so, but it’s better than nothing.
  14. +5
    4 December 2023 10: 58
    The artillerymen will tell you why we lost the Soviet-Finnish War.

    Um... moving the border beyond Vyborg and returning the territory on which Finland's only line of defense was located - is this a lost war?
    Everyone would lose like that.
    At the same time, shortly before this, the Japanese were defeated at Khalkin Gol.

    We won. But they didn’t destroy it. The Japanese forces left the emerging cauldron, hiding behind the rearguards, which our tankers spent precious time defeating (instead of blocking and bypassing).
    Tov. Stalin
    I am sending the report just received to Comrade Zhukov and Kalugin. As expected, there were no divisions in the encirclement, the enemy either managed to withdraw the main forces, or rather, there were no large forces in this area for a long time, and a specially trained garrison was sitting, which is now completely destroyed.
    © Voroshilov
    The famous Mannerheim Line, which was impregnable in 1940, lasted only 11 days in June 1944.
    It was enough to use 305-mm howitzers, which had been gathering dust in arsenals since 1917 (!), and 280-mm Br-5 mortars. Only five divisions! Plus fire from naval guns of the Baltic Fleet. It was these divisions and naval guns that turned the Finnish defense into ruins.

    In December 1939, even if we had our “Karlov” and “Dora”, nothing would have changed.
    Because to turn a defense into ruins you need to know where to shoot. Which of the hills ahead is the pillbox. And the Finnish defense was opened only in February.
    Plus, it was necessary to teach commanders and soldiers how to use artillery. At the Meeting following the results of the SFV, the artillerymen complained that the infantry commanders assigned the OM and BM artillery tasks such as “conduct harassing fire in the forest.”
    And most importantly, it was necessary to teach the infantry to fight. For artillery can at least turn all the bunkers into “Karelian sculptures,” but if the infantry lies immediately at the exit from the trenches, then the defense will never be broken through.
    Few people know, but in December 1939 the Mannerheim Line was broken - the 20th Brigade passed right through the Finnish defenses and reached the rear of the Finnish positions. But the infantry did not follow the heavy tank brigade - and, losing crews and tanks from the Finnish anti-tank missile defense, our tankers rolled back. After this battle, the 20th brigade was withdrawn for reorganization, because less than a battalion remained from the brigade.
    1. +1
      4 December 2023 16: 23
      Quote: Alexey RA
      Everyone would lose like that.

      Winter War - 127-167K
      Continuation War - approximately 300K.
      The blockade is approximately 1M.

      The total cost of liberating Vyborg from the Finns is 1,5 million people.
      No, everyone doesn’t need such victories.
      1. +3
        4 December 2023 17: 29
        Quote: Negro
        Winter War - 127-167K
        Continuation War - approximately 300K.
        The blockade is approximately 1M.

        You know my point of view: countries neighboring the USSR could not remain neutral in principle. The example of Hungary is proof of this.
        Taking into account the previous history of Finland, especially the early 20s, its choice of side (after the defeat of its previous roof in the person of France and VBR) is obvious. Even in the absence of SFV.
        1. +1
          4 December 2023 21: 21
          Quote: Alexey RA
          You know my point of view

          Of course I know. But your antics are always funny to watch - and you don’t often defend obviously absurd theses. I remember you have two of them: the bloody Finns and Korolev, the enemy of the people.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Example from Hungary

          Oops. It’s not so easy to find a country against which the USSR did not have time to defend itself preventively, is it?
          Quote: Alexey RA
          The countries neighboring the USSR could not remain neutral in principle.

          You're lying. Turkey remained - the only country that had a border with the USSR, which the USSR did not get its hands on. Moreover, some of the countries that the USSR got its hands on remained neutral in the Soviet-German conflict: Afghanistan, China, Japan/Manchukuo.

          The disadvantages of this solution for the last named countries emerged quite quickly.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          after the defeat of its previous roof represented by France and VBR

          I tell you, it's always fun to watch you flail around. At one time or another, the Second World War had to be canceled so that Britain's two allies would fight each other, just like the Hungarians and the Romanians. At the same time, Britain was defeated, what a fine fellow, despite the fact that Britain, even in 44, was able to negotiate freedom for Finland.
  15. -2
    4 December 2023 11: 04
    We, as we once did during the Great Patriotic War, finally understood the importance of artillery of great and special power. Alas, the thesis that history repeats itself works. Everything is happening approximately the same as it happened then. SVO is like a modern copy of that war.

    They understood about high-power artillery before the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, and after it began, they understood first of all and in the first place the fateful importance of low-power artillery. Machine guns 12,7 and 14,5 mm, cannons 23, 37 45, 57, 76 mm and mortars 50, 82 and 120 mm. Unfortunately, even after two years, the Northern Military District command of the Russian army still did not understand this. This is the main weapon that destroys enemy personnel, lightly armored vehicles and drones.
  16. +4
    4 December 2023 14: 16
    Nothing about interaction with UAVs and anti-UAVs, nothing about + and - in comparison with MLRS, nothing about adjustable projectiles, afterburning projectiles, nothing about the experience of the USA and China.
    Alexander, sometimes I expect something different from you.
    1. 0
      7 December 2023 21: 06
      Afterburning and adjustable projectiles? From the very beginning, the SVO did not see a single video of an air explosion at an altitude of 5-10 meters from our side. Only now has there been confirmation of the use of cluster munitions. The enemy has been using ammunition since the very beginning of the conflict.
  17. 0
    4 December 2023 14: 35
    I wonder, are the super-heavy artillery from the Second World War and the ammunition for it still at the farms? In certain cases it would be possible to use . For example, create a separate division with l/s trained for these soldiers and use them in those areas where this is possible, taking into account their mobility and range.
  18. 0
    4 December 2023 16: 47
    Malkas also need adjustable projectiles and they are also active-reactive. Well, you can use thermal bars.
  19. 0
    4 December 2023 17: 14
    The author is what “why we lost the Soviet-Finnish war” means....he is absolutely sure that we lost. The losses were heavy, but the border was pushed back to the current one. Goals achieved. If you don't take into account the fact that Suomi didn't become red. Another thing is that in 1918 Finke carried out the genocide of all non-Finns. There were concentration camps for Russians and Red Finns. Indeed, the goals set by Kuusinen in 1918 were not achieved. But the Finns’ goals of “Great Finland to the Urals” were not achieved in accordance with the theses of Mannerheim’s “Sword into the Sheath” program. So we won the “Winter War”, not the dates. Author, don't embarrass yourself :)
  20. +2
    4 December 2023 20: 33
    "I'll tell you a little secret...."
    "It's no secret that..."
    "I won't reveal any secret..."
    A lot of secrets for one publication.
  21. +1
    4 December 2023 23: 46
    Imagine the reaction of the Ukrainian Armed Forces to the arrival of a dozen projectiles weighing 110 kg (a regular projectile) in a cassette design at a collection point located 40-50 kilometers before the LBS.

    With a maximum firing range of a conventional OFS of 37.5 and an ARS of 47.5 km, in order to send a projectile to the “assembly point 40-50 km before the LBS”, you need to position yourself close to this very line, or ask the enemy to let our “Peonies” through. Malki" 3 kilometers behind her. Somehow this doesn’t work out very well.
    And the feat of Sevastopol batteries No. 30 and No. 35! Eight months under fire from everything the Nazis had. Eight months under bombs of various calibers. The towers were standing! If it were not for the two-ton shells of the 615-mm mortars... No walls would have withstood such attacks.

    Yes, sir... For the author's information, neither the 30th nor the 35th armored turret batteries were hit by 600-mm mortar shells. The 35th BB was put out of action (exploded) on 02.07.1942/30/XNUMX by personnel after the ammunition had been completely used up on the orders of the battery commander, Captain Alexander Yakovlevich Leshchenko, and the XNUMXth BB was captured by the Germans practically intact.
    This information is not obscure, secret or difficult to obtain. What prevented the author of the article from spending 10 minutes searching for reliable information rather than inventing a new myth?
  22. +1
    5 December 2023 12: 00
    Trickstering is in our blood, in the Tsarist, the Soviet, and the Russian, until we wash ourselves with blood, our brains don’t work well, and only then! laughing
  23. -1
    5 December 2023 14: 39
    Having normal videoconferencing systems, with reconnaissance systems, target designation, round-the-clock monitoring of theaters of operations, there would be no need to create relict brigades with outdated systems.... This is due to the scarcity of the scientific base and poverty.
    1. 0
      5 December 2023 21: 29
      Is it not because of scarcity that you classify modern heavy-duty weapons as obsolete? They will put you in a trench and hit you there with a Tulip, if you survive and become wiser.
  24. +2
    5 December 2023 21: 16
    Philologists will tell you that the war was Soviet-Finnish, and the military will tell you that we won that war. I’ll tell you an open secret: the Mannerheim line was destroyed in 1940 by Stalin’s 203 (1931) and 280mm (1939) sledgehammers, 414 shells were used, as well as by sappers and explosives, so that in 1944 there was nothing special to destroy. By the way, the main role was played by the B4, as it was more massive and maneuverable.
  25. +2
    5 December 2023 21: 41
    “The artillerymen will tell you why we lost the Soviet-Finnish War. At the same time, shortly before that we defeated the Japanese at Khalkin Gol.
    The famous Mannerheim Line, which was impregnable in 1940, lasted only 11 days in June 1944."

    The fall of the Mannerheim Line and the defeat of the main group of Finnish troops put the enemy in a difficult situation. Under these conditions, Finland turned to the Soviet government asking for peace.
    On the night of March 13, 1940, a peace treaty was signed in Moscow, according to which Finland ceded about a tenth of its territory to the USSR and pledged not to participate in coalitions hostile to the USSR. On March 13, hostilities ceased.
    The author, in your opinion, did the USSR lose the winter war of 1939-1940? At the same time, the Mannerheim line was opened and captured, as was a tenth of Finland. The author, are you a victim of the Unified State Exam or is it written in your textbooks???
  26. +2
    5 December 2023 23: 17
    A very strong text in hindsight. It came to our command..., although as the author says, there was a whole WWII and its experience was once upon a time. Yes, I would have looked first if he had written this before the start of the SVO. Yes, everyone would laugh at him. Yes, everything you write is a no brainer after everything that has already happened. I’ll say more that damn it only came to our only command of all the commands in the world! Yes, not in one moment, as many would like, but knowing how everything works in our army, I would say that it’s just - absolutely - A FLY! For all other Estonians, this has not yet sunk in.
    It is not at all clear what confuses the author about the mixed composition of these artillery brigades. The same 45 had such a composition for a long time. 2 garden and 2 mad with the same composition of weapons. Everything is on a tracked base, for example, the 227th artillery brigade is (was?) armed with Msta-B, Msta-S, Uragan, if I’m not confusing anything. This is much smoother gimor for the deputy technical engineer and the deputy military officer.
    When I saw the Finnish war I already wrote a comment, but I wouldn’t have written it as if it were for adults. I could have used emoticons!)
  27. 0
    1 January 2024 03: 50
    There are universal means of hacking any defense, such as nuclear land mines, but the specifics of air defense systems impose restrictions on their use.
  28. 0
    10 January 2024 08: 06
    Reading the text, you begin to think that the DPRK actually supplies artillery and ammunition to Russia in the Northern Military District. It seems that the deputy political colonel (which means he graduated from the Military PA) where such knowledge comes from, at the level of the parish school and the OBS agency.
  29. +1
    25 January 2024 08: 16
    During the assault on Koenigsberg, the artillery’s task was to drive the garrisons into the lower tiers and boil them away from the embrasures. By the way, 37-mm anti-aircraft guns performed well in this regard, firing bursts at the embrasures and forcing them to be covered with armored shutters. And the forts were destroyed by sappers: they dragged 500-600 kg of explosives to the walls and placed them in a special way. And after the explosion, a gap formed, into which the tank calmly drove. From one to three breaches were made in this way.
    Plus flamethrowers.
  30. 0
    25 January 2024 08: 30
    Now let’s remember what was lost and not gained. About the rejected duplex and triplex guns V.G. Grabina. A 180 mm cannon with a range of almost 40 km from a triplex, a 210 mm cannon with a range of almost 50 km from a duplex. A 210-mm cannon sent a 150-kg “goodie” to this range. A 305-mm howitzer from a duplex fired 21-kg shells at a distance of 335 km. Any current Wehrmacht bunker would have been blown to pieces by one guided 305 mm projectile.
    The 305 mm howitzer division was supposed to have 9 guns. Just imagine, such a division fires 5-7 guided ammunition and in the offensive zone of our entire brigade all the bunkers of the Wehrmacht are multiplied by zero.
    And 180 and 210 mm guns at this time would provide counter-battery combat.
    The only thing is that additional air defense forces would be required to provide cover from UAVs.
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  32. 0
    24 March 2024 21: 08
    What kind of gun is this - F-19? Eh, author, author!........................ laughing