A submachine gun... unlike anything else

79
A submachine gun... unlike anything else
A one-of-a-kind Vaclav Holek ZB47 submachine gun. East Bohemian Museum at Pardubice Castle in Pardubice


“Czech variety” – excellent light beer
with Zatec hops and slight bitterness.
A glass of Czech with meat sausages –
This is an option when you want to relax
after a hard day and relax.
We remind you that for this type of foam
There is a 2+1 promotion.
We are waiting for you in our store!”

Modern advertising of one of the Russian stores

stories about weapons. Good beer is made today in the Czech Republic. I tried it, and on the spot. And there it is much better than what we released under the same brands! But the Czech Republic was famous not only for beer. In the middle of the XNUMXth century, weapons produced in Czechoslovak factories could rightly be considered among the most advanced models in the whole world.



Being occupied by Germany, the Czech Republic became the forge of the Third Reich. Well, the quality of its products at that time and the level of production is evidenced by the fact that back in 1940, on the basis of the Zbrojovka Brno (ZB) arms concern, the Germans created the SS Weapons Academy (SS-WafTenakademie), which, based on Czech experience, began to train specialists - gunsmiths for Greater Germany.


Czech submachine guns from the book by Jaroslav Lugz, German reprint 1984. Pp. 332

The defeat of Germany in 1945 did not in any way affect the work of Czech designers, who already in 1946-1948 presented the new government with about 30 projects of just new submachine guns, designed to use both German 9x19 Parabellum pistol cartridges and Soviet 7,62x25 TT.


Vaclav Holek (1886–1954)

And it was precisely among them that the ZB47 “Cholek” submachine gun, designed by Vaclav Holek, appeared.

In his native Czech village*, where he was born, Vaclav already as a child worked as an assistant to a local blacksmith, who also repaired hunting rifles. The guy was interested in this work, and he, like John Moses Browning, made several guns on his own, assembling them from parts from weapons that could not be repaired.

He was fascinated by the profession of a gunsmith, and he entered a vocational school in the city of Pisek, in Bohemia, where there were many weapons workshops and educational institutions of the corresponding specialization.


Vaclav Holek's ZB47 submachine gun with its magazine. East Bohemian Museum at Pardubice Castle in Pardubice

After completing his studies, V. Holek worked first in Vienna, then from 1910 in Prague, as an employee of Jan Novotny’s company, which produced very high-quality hunting rifles. So Kholek had someone to learn from and something to improve his technical skills on.

Well, he decided to try himself as a designer in 1921, introducing the Prague 1921 self-loading pistol. Following this, he designed the ZB26 light machine gun, which formed the basis for the most famous British light machine gun of World War II, the Bran. It was followed by the vz heavy machine gun. 37, which in the same England was produced under the name Besa and was used in the same way to arm the Czechoslovak tankswho fought against the USSR.

He did not express any protest against the occupation of Czechoslovakia by German troops, but he did not create any new projects during the war. He didn’t join the partisans, but he wasn’t particularly zealous at work either.


Disassembly of ZB47. East Bohemian Museum at Pardubice Castle in Pardubice

But Kholek’s machine guns fought everywhere, and whoever was not armed with them: the German Wehrmacht, the Finns, partisans and nationalists of all stripes, from the Croatian Ustasha to the Yugoslav “titushki”, Chetniks, Lithuanian “forest brothers”, OUN-UPA fighters and the Chinese from the Kuomintang army.

In the post-war period, Kholek machine guns continued to be actively used in China, South America, the Middle East and Africa, and in North Korea they can even be seen on monuments!


ZB47, equipped with a wooden stock. East Bohemian Museum at Pardubice Castle in Pardubice

But Kholek’s most, so to speak, original weapon, created immediately after the war, was the ZB47 submachine gun, intended for arming tank crews.

The pistol grip was made from a hole in the rear of the receiver. But the box magazine with a capacity of 72 rounds of 9x19 mm caliber was not noticeable at all, since it was entirely hidden in the receiver.

Many accused Kholek of being apolitical. Like, he worked for the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and for independent Czechoslovakia, and for the German Reich, and then for socialist Czechoslovakia.

But, on the other hand, it is quite possible that he simply loved his job, and he simply... didn’t give a damn about all these political conditions, parties and ideologies!


Store location. Scheme from “Manual ZB47 “Kholek”

Well, now we will briefly interrupt our story about Kholek himself and his submachine gun, for the sake of a little reference to the past.

And it so happened that for the first time I happened to see an image of a total PP in 1984 in a book on small arms published in the GDR. Moreover, this was a reissue of the book by Jaroslav Lugz, published by the publishing house “Our Army” in Prague in 1956.

Naturally, a lot of attention was paid to Czech and Austrian weapons, and it was there on the page dedicated to Czech submachine guns of the war and post-war era that his image with a wooden and folding metal butt was placed.

Of course, I was very interested in learning more about such a strange-looking weapon, but in those early years it was, of course, impossible to do this.

I was able to satisfy my interest only in our days. Moreover, I managed to get not only color photographs, but also a “Manual” on ZB47 in Czech, which, among other things, that is, technical data, turned out to be a very interesting publication from the point of view of... advertising! This is something that is simply impossible to see in our “manuals” on handling weapons.


Automatic operation diagram: at the top – the bolt and pusher lever at the maximum distance from the chamber and magazine; below - the bolt goes forward, the lever rests on the feed gear


Automatic operation diagram: at the top - the pusher lever turned the feeder gear, and it brought the cartridge to the chambering line; below - the bolt, continuing to move, sends the cartridge into the chamber

Well, now you can turn directly to the technical structure of this submachine gun.

From the very beginning, its designer wanted to create a weapon with an exceptionally capacious magazine, without resorting to installing either a round drum magazine or a flat box magazine on it. And all because, with a standard location under the fore-end or barrel, it would be too long.


72 rounds in a flat magazine - that's something!

That's why he placed it in the butt so that the cartridges in it were in a vertical position, and there were not 20, not 30 or 32, but... 72 - a kind of record for submachine guns with a flat, pistol-type magazine!


This is how this submachine gun had to be held on a belt near the waist


And this is how to hold it while shooting

The feed mechanism was originally designed.

The free bolt, like most submachine guns, had a pusher lever in the front. When moving forward after rolling back after a shot, with this lever he activated the feeder, which had the appearance of a four-tooth gear, to which the magazine was pressed closely and, accordingly, the next cartridge located on its feeder.

The lever was pushed by the feeder, which with one of its teeth grabbed the cartridge from the magazine and raised it to a position in which the bolt, which continued to move forward, pushed it into the chamber.

Well, then everything happened as usual: the shot is fired, the bolt goes back, removes the empty cartridge case from the barrel, throws it out, after which the whole cycle is repeated. To start shooting, it was necessary to turn the cartridge feed mechanism, and then cock the bolt using the handle on the right.


Changing the magazine: the fighter on the left – removes, the fighter on the right – inserts

True, it is quite possible that it was precisely this unusualness that let this submachine gun down. In any case, despite the “advertising booklet”, which, in fact, was a “manual” on its use, it was not adopted by the Czech army.

The military liked another model - ZK476 by V. Kholechek, F. Myshka, J. Kratochvil and V. Zibar with a magazine in the pistol grip. In 1948 it was put into service under the name “9 mm samopal vz. 48a" (with a wooden butt), and vz. 48b (with side folding metal stock)**. Moreover, although it was a very modern example of such a weapon for that time, it still did not have such a capacious magazine!


But these are advertising “pictures” that will not leave anyone indifferent. In theory... Here a certain bearded oriental person in a turban is armed with a Kholek submachine gun!


It can also come in handy in banana thickets!


And, of course, it will be useful to a soldier in the bamboo thickets!


On this page are all his technical characteristics and a drawing of a policeman from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police with a ZB47 in a holster near the saddle. Why not?


This drawing finished me off: el gaucho in a sombrero and with a ZB47 – that’s absolutely something!


And the last picture (very touching): the prisoners in the quarry are working, moving stones, and the guard is sitting and watching over them. ZB47 is in its place here too! This is where the 72-round magazine comes in especially handy. There are a lot of prisoners. What if they run...

* The Czech Republic at that time was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
** In the spring of 1950, the Czechoslovak Army changed the name of these submachine guns: which became known as Sa 23 and Sa 25. In 1951, they were converted to the Soviet 7,62x25 mm TT cartridge and became known as Sa 24 and Sa 26, respectively.
79 comments
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  1. +6
    10 December 2023 04: 30
    Interesting weapon! Each designer contributes, or invents, something of his own! good
  2. +6
    10 December 2023 04: 58
    Interesting design. As far as I know, reliability let her down. Compared to its competitor, the submachine gun turned out to be more capricious, especially in cold weather. And 476 turned out to be easier to produce.
    Thanks to Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. +1
      10 December 2023 12: 03
      In addition to reliability, it is obvious that convenience when shooting is being sacrificed for ergonomics when carrying. Placing a magazine between your index and middle fingers at the most crucial moment is a dubious pleasure. Shooting still has priority, although it takes less time compared to carrying.
    2. +2
      14 December 2023 18: 31
      Zbraň byla svým kompaktním tvarem určena jen pro osádky tanků. Střílel jsem osobně jen s klony této zbraně - to znamená SA 24 a SA 26 a jednalo se o velmi spolehlivé a jednoduché zbraně. Spolehlivostí předčily všechny ostatní, ale jejich náboje měly menší rozměr 7,62 × 25 mm Tokarev (unifikace s SSSR), Váha 5,5 g. Původně se konstruovaly pro náboj 9 mm Luger.
      Československá armáda je pak nahradila zbraní SA 58, která se po různých modernizací vyrábí prakticky dosud s náboji 7,62x39, váha střely 123 gr / 8 g .
      1. +3
        14 December 2023 20: 00
        Translation of the text by dear Comrade!
        This weapon was designed only for tankers. I personally only shot clones of these weapons - that is, the SA 24 and SA 26, and they were very reliable and simple weapons. In terms of reliability, they were superior to all others, but their cartridges were smaller in size - 7,62 × 25 mm Tokarev (unification with the USSR), weight 5,5 g. They were originally developed for the 9 mm Luger cartridge.
        The Czechoslovak Army then replaced them with the SA 58 weapon, which, after various upgrades, is almost still produced with 7x62 cartridges, the bullet weight is 39 gr / 123 g.

        Thanks for the comment!
        Unfortunately, we are all “theorists”. Firstly, these samples themselves were not fired. Secondly, we operate only with Russian-language sources, in rare cases with English or German sources. In this case, we, as readers, are lucky that the Author of the article, as the basis for the material, “translated” instructions for this weapon.
        In our domestic literature, this submachine gun is praised for its compactness and criticized for the long magazine spring with a cartridge reversal mechanism. Moreover, everyone refers to the testing of weapons by the Czechoslovak Army itself. Which revealed lack of sleep during operation in winter.
        Sa-24 and Sa-26 had a classic magazine. Therefore, we did not have such problems. Our authors mention problems with ammunition in passing.
        Thanks again!
        1. +2
          14 December 2023 21: 24
          OKAY.
          U ZB47 je třeba si uvědomit, že zbraň byla konstruovaná tak, aby zásobník - tak jak je známe u běžných samopalů, nepřekážel při vyskakování a naskakování posádky do tanku. Kdo to někdy dělal s běžným samopalem, ví, jak zásobník při tom překáží. Osobně s ZB47 zkušenosti nemám, ale jeho klony SA 24 a SA26 byly naprosto bezproblémové - ano - měly klasické zásobníky a střelivo bylo shodné s tehdy používanými pistolemi a cca 3 kg samopal se dal použí vat i na zatloukání hřebíků. To s běžným Kalašnikovem nejde.

          wink
          1. +2
            14 December 2023 21: 34
            Translation!
            In the case of the ZB47, it should be remembered that the weapon was designed in such a way that the magazine - as we know in conventional submachine guns - does not interfere with jumping up and jumping into the tank. Anyone who has ever done this with a regular submachine gun knows how much the magazine gets in the way. Personally, I have no experience with the ZB47, but its clones SA 24 and SA26 were absolutely trouble-free - and yes - they had classic magazines, and the ammunition load was identical to the pistols used at the time, and a submachine gun weighing about 3 kg could be used even for driving nails. This does not apply to conventional Kalashnikov assault rifles.

            That's what I'm talking about. The spring is too long. Temperature changes apparently affected the properties of the metal. Plus a device for bringing the cartridge from a vertical to a horizontal position.
            In disc magazines, they traditionally loaded 2-3 fewer rounds.
            Thanks for the comment! hi
            1. +1
              16 December 2023 09: 04
              Thank you very much for the translation too. good
              Interesting cartridge supply scheme. It’s possible that in a regular store he would have walked in. But then the main feature of this weapon is lost - compactness, which is what a colleague writes about. The auger magazine somehow also did not become widespread.
              1. +1
                16 December 2023 09: 17
                The auger magazine somehow also did not become widespread.

                I shot a Bison with an auger. I liked it.
                1. +1
                  16 December 2023 09: 19
                  What about the process of loading ammunition? This seems to be the main complaint about the auger.
                  1. +2
                    16 December 2023 19: 17
                    Quote: volodimer
                    What about the process of loading ammunition? This seems to be the main complaint about the auger.

                    It's tedious, but it turns out faster than scoring 30 for Kedr. During the five years of service there were no distortions. Although in real combat it is better to have 4 magazines instead of 2. And it is less dangerous for the fingers. The latest products from Zlatoust have very poor fit and finish. Most people try, by hook or by crook, to retain old products from the 90s and 00s.
  3. +4
    10 December 2023 05: 08
    How was the reliability of this thing? The chances of misalignment and/or sticking of the cartridge seem to be much greater than with traditional feeding.
    1. +7
      10 December 2023 05: 19
      Quote: Nagan
      The chances of the cartridge being skewed and/or stuck seem to be much greater

      The path of the cartridge to the barrel is too long. Only in this segment can anything happen
  4. +4
    10 December 2023 05: 11
    In our frosts, shooting from this miracle is not a breeze...your fingers will quickly get frostbitten...you won’t be able to stick your finger in a mitten to the trigger...it’s a shame though.
    And the ZB47 Holek cartridge feeding mechanism is very interesting... Czech gnomes are talented gunsmiths... such entertainers smile No, let them learn something new.
  5. +5
    10 December 2023 05: 14
    The first time I saw this strange “gun” was in Zhuk’s youth (naturally). But there was one drawing without a disassembly diagram; it was generally not clear what was what. The store surprised me. Thank you.
    1. +4
      10 December 2023 07: 26
      Quote: Andrey Moskvin
      The first time I saw this strange “gun” was in Zhuk’s youth (naturally)

      The same. And he was very angry. So Zhuk didn’t have everything. (This is for those who pray for him!)
      1. +11
        10 December 2023 10: 49
        This is for those who pray for him!)

        They don’t pray to Zhuk, but they greatly respect him. You try to create such an encyclopedic work - yes, at that time, and without the Internet and free communication with “abroad”. It is clear that “not everything” is there, but this was basically impossible to do at that time.
        At a minimum, this is worthy of strong respect, and not streams of bilious irony.
        1. 0
          10 December 2023 12: 44
          [quote=IvanIvanychIvanov]You try to create such an encyclopedic work - yes, at that time, and without the Internet and free communication with “abroad”. It is clear that “not everything” is there, but this was basically impossible to do at that time.
          At a minimum, this is worthy of strong respect, and not streams of bilious irony.

          Where are the streams? One sentence - “one flow”, and not addressed to Zhuk, but to those who consider his work to be absolute. Without the Internet... Do you think the Internet is easy? Ha! Try it, I'll see how it works out for you. It's even worse with the Internet! And this is true for the Beetle. At one time there were a huge number of advertising catalogs for the sale of weapons, the same pistols. And everything was carried out... in a black and white schedule. So he took them and redrew them. Of course, it was very difficult and hard work. But all the samples were before his eyes. This is the same rewrite today, only in drawing. It's a matter of technique and experience. What we had to look for was not samples - booklets! And then, having perfected the technique, he drew from photographs as well as from booklets. So, yes - for that time it was a breakthrough, no one argues. But not everything is there, although “everything!” Probably you just can’t show it... You need a book of 30-40 author’s pages. And no one would publish such a thing, either then or now.
          1. +10
            10 December 2023 13: 09
            At one time there were a huge number of advertising catalogs for the sale of weapons, the same pistols. And everything was carried out... in a black and white schedule. So he took them and redrew them.

            Any techie who knows how to draw will see the difference between the DRAWINGS in old advertising catalogs and the DRAWINGS in Zhuk's books. A drawing cannot be redrawn from a drawing - this is an axiom. You can make a drawing from a drawing. In Zhuk's books, the drawing technique is clearly visible - this is either taking dimensions from life, or drawing from a photo. Both are not copy-pasted old advertising brochures. This is serious independent work with natural sources.
            And as if the entire track record of Alexander Borisovich Zhuk speaks of his independent work.
            1. -1
              10 December 2023 13: 16
              Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
              Both are not copy-pasted old advertising brochures. This is serious independent work with natural sources.

              Well, that's what you think. With real life... and where did he get so many real life images in the USSR?
              1. +8
                10 December 2023 13: 26
                Well, that's what you think. With real life... and where did he get so many real life images in the USSR?

                Here's what Vicky says
                He worked as an artist at the Voenizdat publishing house, then at the Department of Clothing Supply of the USSR Ministry of Defense.

                There are natures there, from all over the world, in trainloads. Plus museums.
                This is probably why he has gaps in his books, because in one country, no matter how large it is, it is impossible to find EVERYTHING. And contacting “abroad”, as you do now, in order to get answers to specific questions, was almost impossible then. Something was in “special storage” classified “secret” until perestroika - you know. Hence the relative shortcomings of these books.
                I think that if Alexander Borisovich had lived another 10 years before the normal Internet, he would have expanded and republished his books.
                1. -1
                  10 December 2023 18: 19
                  Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
                  I think that if Alexander Borisovich had lived another 10 years before the normal Internet, he would have expanded and republished his books.

                  Yes, that would be great. But here another problem would arise. They paid well for such work in the USSR, but then the printing technology changed, and since 2008 the book market has declined greatly. Publishers are becoming less and less willing to use hand-drawn illustrations. They demand photos for which they don't pay. But museums do not allow you to photograph weapons for free. For example, the Museum of the Soviet Army in Moscow requires from 2 to 6 thousand rubles for photography (with its own lighting, because it is dark in the storage room!). Can you imagine how much it will cost to publish a book with such pictures and how much it will cost to sell? And there are prices even higher - 12 thousand 700 rubles. for the photo - State Historical Museum. So it’s good that he managed to do it then and for that time it was a breakthrough. But now the printing is different and everything is different.
                2. -2
                  10 December 2023 18: 21
                  Quote: Ivan Ivanych Ivanov
                  that in one country, no matter how big it is, it is impossible to find EVERYTHING.

                  Yes, for example, we don’t have a Laumann pistol. But it is in the Vienna Military History Museum.
  6. +6
    10 December 2023 05: 16
    In my opinion, the design is too complex and sophisticated. It might work for some special forces, but it’s unlikely to be used as a mass-produced weapon for the army.
    1. +3
      10 December 2023 07: 26
      Quote: Dutchman Michel
      this is how mass weapons for the army are, hardly

      The Czech army decided the same!
    2. +1
      10 December 2023 15: 07
      It is very clearly stated in the article that it is not a mass-produced weapon: “a ZB47 submachine gun, intended for arming tank crews.”
  7. +5
    10 December 2023 06: 44
    To be fair, it is worth noting that the trigger for the ZH-29 rifle, developed by designer Vaclav Holek in 1929, was taken as the basis for the trigger for AK assault rifles.
    ps Another confirmation of this. that Schmeiser “wasn’t standing next to” the AK.
    1. IVZ
      +3
      10 December 2023 10: 16
      To be fair, it is worth noting that the trigger for the ZH-29 rifle, developed by designer Vaclav Holek in 1929, was taken as the basis for the trigger for AK assault rifles.
      ps Another confirmation of this. that Schmeiser “wasn’t standing next to” the AK.
      I wholeheartedly agree with the last statement. But USM 29 formed the basis for both USM Garand and MR. In general, apart from outright clones, we cannot talk about copying even seemingly similar samples. For example, the locking units of the M1 Garand, AK, ZiG and some other samples are similar and when they were designed, the M1 Garand was taken as a basis, but here we must understand it literally - “taken as a basis” and not copied. In technology, this rule works 99,99%.
      1. +3
        10 December 2023 12: 50
        Quote: IVZ
        took M1 Garand,

        Then the 1908 Winchester was taken as a basis. It had exactly the same rotating bolt.
        https://topwar.ru/85955-vinchester-tak-i-ne-stavshiy-kalashnikovym-chast-3.html
        1. +2
          10 December 2023 13: 02
          By the way, about the Zhuk and... the Fedorov assault rifle. At one time I wrote this about this: “So, in the famous book by A.B. Zhuk “Handbook ...” (1993 edition), the hard drive is, one way or another, mentioned on pages 483,498,526,608,669,678, 684, but about samples of 1907/10 . not a word was said, as if they simply did not exist! What did Zhuk not know about them? He looked at all the catalogs for weapons that were sold in Russia? Yes, he knew, of course, he even mentioned on page 535 that there were supposedly , samples of automatic weapons, including a Winchester, and then again went on about Russia’s priority in relation to the Fedorov assault rifle. And that it was the first of the Russian automatic rifles to receive a baptism of fire in 1916. And that’s right! What’s wrong? And what’s wrong is a trifle: “machine guns” were already used during the “Brusilovsky breakthrough”, therefore Fedorov’s work was supported, and even earlier the Russian government purchased these same Winchester machine guns on the advice (how else would our military know about this?) of the Russian military attache in France.
          1. +7
            10 December 2023 14: 46
            By the way, about the Beetle

            The classic saying applies here: “Without fish, there is cancer.”
        2. IVZ
          +1
          10 December 2023 14: 29
          Then the 1908 Winchester was taken as a basis
          To my shame, I cannot remember this sample. I don't know him. And Kalashnikov himself spoke about Garand.
      2. +4
        10 December 2023 12: 57
        when designing them, the M1 Garand was taken as a basis

        Garand began designing his M1 in 1929 after seeing the Kholek ZH-29 rifle, commercially produced since 1929, being tested in the United States. The M1 began mass production only in 1936. So Kholek is the primary one with the ZH-29. drinks
        1. IVZ
          0
          10 December 2023 14: 24
          So Kholek with the ZH-29 is still primary

          USM 29 formed the basis of the Garand USM
          Who is arguing with you?
          1. 0
            10 December 2023 14: 52
            For example, the locking units of M1 Garand, AK, ZiG and some other samples are similar and when designing them, the M1 Garand was taken as a basis,

            Did I misunderstand something in this paragraph of your comment?
      3. +3
        10 December 2023 14: 45
        But USM 29 formed the basis for both USM Garand and MR.

        You are misinforming your audience. Provide, if not difficult, links to the fact that the M1 Garand used technical solutions of the ZH-29.
        1. IVZ
          +1
          10 December 2023 14: 51
          Provide, if not difficult, links to the fact that the M1 Garand used technical solutions of the ZH-29.
          Unfortunately I can't provide links. Still, I don’t get information about weapons from the wiki. But I recommend looking at Blagonravov’s “Small Arms Materiel” diagrams of the triggers.
          1. +1
            10 December 2023 15: 11
            Unfortunately I can't provide links. Still, I don’t get information about weapons from the wiki.

            Are you really drawing information from such secret sources that they cannot be made public even for weapons samples that were a hundred years old?
            In light of your zigzags regarding sources, your recommendations are simply inappropriate, because you either did not read Blagonravov or did not understand anything about him.
            1. IVZ
              +1
              10 December 2023 16: 01
              Are you really drawing information from such secret sources that they cannot be made public even for weapons samples that were a hundred years old?
              Nothing secret, I just studied these samples, some in metal (in the “museums” of SKB KMZ, KF VPI, etc.), and some from educational literature. By the way, it sounds funny, but then it was mostly chipboard. Why did you decide that I haven’t read Blagonravov? Just wondering. The layout of the Garand trigger according to the placement conditions, at first glance, is very different from 29, but the principle of operation is whispered with interception of the trigger - one to one.
              1. +1
                10 December 2023 16: 20
                That is, having studied the design of the ZH-29 and M1 Garand, you learned that both use a trigger trigger and came to the conclusion that Garand borrowed the design from Kholek?
              2. +1
                10 December 2023 23: 55
                Why did you decide that I haven’t read Blagonravov?

                Because anyone who reads Blagonravov, where the device of the ZH-29 trigger is described in detail, and understands what is written there, will never write
                one to one

                Especially if you saw the M1 Garand trigger.
                By the way, all internal combustion engines, without exception, have the same operating principle - converting the thermal energy of burning fuel into mechanical energy.
  8. +7
    10 December 2023 07: 39
    the box magazine with a capacity of 72 rounds of 9x19 mm caliber was not noticeable at all, since it was entirely hidden in the receiver
    A truly non-standard approach to the location of the magazine and the feeding of cartridges into the chamber. At one time (quite a long time ago) I saw a photo of this submachine gun and thought that it had an English-style magazine on the side, and then I was surprised by its placement. Well, this gunsmith’s engineering mind really didn’t sleep.
  9. +1
    10 December 2023 08: 25
    The defeat of Germany in 1945 did not in any way affect the work of Czech designers, who already in 1946-1948 presented the new government with about 30 projects of just new submachine guns

    Well, this isn’t the first time I’ve changed my shoes in the air...
  10. +5
    10 December 2023 09: 03
    Many accused Kholek of being apolitical. Like, he worked for the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and for independent Czechoslovakia, and for the German Reich, and then for socialist Czechoslovakia.

    But, on the other hand, it is quite possible that he simply loved his job, and he simply... didn’t give a damn about all these political conditions, parties and ideologies! (Vyacheslav Shpakovsky)

    “Do not be afraid of enemies - they can only kill; do not be afraid of friends - they can only betray; Be afraid of indifferent people - it is with their tacit consent that all the most terrible crimes in the world occur. …(Julius Fucik)
    1. +1
      10 December 2023 10: 14
      His idea should have been implemented in a machine gun chambered for a rifle cartridge, and then this gear-type four-pronged cartridge feeder could take cartridges not only from an inclined magazine, but even from a magazine located parallel to the receiver; this would be much more convenient than classical schemes.
      1. +4
        10 December 2023 13: 04
        and then this gear-type four-tooth cartridge feeder could extract cartridges not only from an inclined magazine, but even from a magazine located parallel to the receiver, this would be much more convenient than classical schemes.

        Holecek H/47 submachine gun (ČZ 246), 1946. The magazine is located parallel to the axis of the receiver in the upper part of the butt. And the supply of cartridges is implemented in a much more technologically advanced way - directly by the bolt.
    2. IVZ
      +2
      10 December 2023 10: 31
      Be afraid of indifferent people - it is with their tacit consent that all the most terrible crimes in the world occur. …(Julius Fucik)
      You shouldn’t elevate the biting phrases of even famous people to the rank of absolute truth. Their authors are just people and are also subject to the influence of the moment and may make mistakes. Betrayal by friends is worse. As for the person under discussion... He is not indifferent, he simply specializes in a different area, understands who a “specialist” is, and does not mind his own business.
      1. +1
        10 December 2023 16: 58
        Quote: IVZ
        You shouldn’t elevate the biting phrases of even famous people to the rank of absolute truth. Their authors are just people and are also subject to the influence of the moment and may make mistakes. Betrayal by friends is worse.

        You've blown in the wrong direction! In my comment, the key is not “betrayal of friends” (choose better friends!), but “be afraid of indifferent people - it is with their tacit consent that all the most terrible crimes in the world occur...” The attitude towards Fuchik’s phrase depends on the morality of a particular person, as well as your attitude depends on your morality...and the attitude of the “minus” people depends on their morality!
  11. +7
    10 December 2023 10: 44
    back in 1940, on the basis of the Zbrojovka Brno (ZB) arms concern, the Germans created the SS Weapons Academy (SS-WafTenakademie), which, based on Czech experience, began to train gunsmith specialists for Greater Germany.

    Waffen Akademie SS is not a weapons academy for training gunsmiths, but a scientific and technical center that was engaged in the development and production of small arms. And Waffenwerke Brunn (Zbrojovka Brno) was the production and design base of this center.
    Among the well-known developments of the Waffen Akademie SS are the ZK 423 light machine gun chambered for 7.92 x 33 mm and a version of the Panzerbüchse 54 hand-held anti-tank grenade launcher with a cardboard launcher.
  12. -3
    10 December 2023 10: 58
    But, on the other hand, it is quite possible that he simply loved his job, and he simply... didn’t give a damn about all these political conditions, parties and ideologies!

    In Nuremberg, such people were tried at one time, there was a case. They also justified themselves with similar words.
  13. +6
    10 December 2023 11: 05
    From the very beginning, its designer wanted to create a weapon with an exceptionally capacious magazine, without resorting to installing either a round drum magazine or a flat box magazine on it.

    It was not only Kholek who wanted to create such a weapon.
    A similar idea was implemented at the same time by Josef Koucki in his ZK 471 submachine gun. Only the magazine had a capacity of 30 rounds.
    1. +2
      11 December 2023 15: 41
      This arrangement of the store and the layout of the weapon as a whole, despite its unusual nature, are not new. Back in the early thirties, the Italian gunsmith Guilio Sosso developed a submachine gun of an original design with a similar magazine arrangement in the butt. A very complex system of levers connected the bolt group with the feeder, which was supposed to pick up the cartridges from the magazine and, through a tube bent into an arc with a cutout for the feeder to pass through, deliver them to a special shelf located along the path of the jam. From this shelf, the bolt picked up the cartridge and sent it into the chamber.
      1. +2
        11 December 2023 15: 55
        By the way, the same Giulio Sosso simultaneously developed an original pistol - his magazine contained a conveyor belt designed for 21 9x19mm Parabellum cartridges. This tape was driven by a special ratchet mechanism, which was set in motion by moving the bolt back and forth, acting on an L-shaped lever. The automatic pistol operated on a short barrel stroke. The bolt moved along special guides and was locked with a wedge swinging in a vertical plane. The return spring was placed around the barrel. The trigger mechanism was double action.
        Technical specifications
        Overall length 220 mm
        Barrel length 150 mm
        Weight b/p 1510 g
        Cartridge 9x19 mm Parabellum
        Magazine capacity 21 rounds
        This original pistol with an unusual conveyor belt magazine was already mentioned by our colleague Sea Cat about five years ago. And Kostya, in his former specialty, is a recognized firearms expert not only on our website, but also among professionals and in the museum community.
  14. +3
    10 December 2023 14: 57
    I'm painfully trying to remember in what other model of small arms the cartridge made similar somersaults on the way from the magazine to the chamber...
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. 0
      10 December 2023 16: 04
      I’m painfully trying to remember in what other model of small arms the cartridge made similar somersaults,

      There was a relatively new assault rifle with an above-barrel magazine with transverse cartridges.
    2. +2
      10 December 2023 16: 24
      Yes, take auger magazines - no matter how hard they try... it’s still a very low-profile and rare weapon (our bison), the FN P90 with a horizontal gun is like the brightest and most famous representatives of alternative thinking lol
      1. 0
        10 December 2023 17: 02
        In my opinion, in a bison auger the cartridges run parallel to the barrel.
      2. +3
        10 December 2023 22: 08
        Bison with a 9x18 auger is beautiful. After ten shots, the center of the target fell out onto the boring bars 50 meters from the rest. On a hundred square meters it was worse, but almost all the bullets from the line hit the chest target.
    3. +4
      10 December 2023 16: 41
      in what other model of small arms did the cartridge perform similar somersaults?

      In some models, somersaults were even more difficult. In Hill's submachine gun, the cartridges were generally perpendicular to the axis of the weapon and in the horizontal plane.
    4. +4
      10 December 2023 16: 59
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      I'm painfully trying to remember in what other model of small arms the cartridge made similar somersaults on the way from the magazine to the chamber...
      Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!

      FN P90
    5. +3
      10 December 2023 18: 03
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      similar somersaults

      Why, the Belgian P-90! The Kel-Tech PP also has a magazine with horizontal placement of cartridges.
  15. +1
    10 December 2023 16: 17
    I apologize Vyacheslav for being off topic. But that's how it is. Reviewer on Lee-Metford. This is not an advertisement for the channel.
  16. +1
    10 December 2023 19: 25
    Why are the Belgians with horizontal ammunition placement (P-90) bad?
    1. +1
      10 December 2023 21: 21
      Quote: _KM_
      Why are the Belgians with horizontal ammunition placement (P-90) bad?

      Who said they were bad?
      1. 0
        10 December 2023 22: 15
        This is what I understand from the context of the discussion.

        Thanks for the article. :) I also remember this sample from the Beetle, and that I was racking my brains about its design.
  17. 0
    10 December 2023 22: 07
    “The Czech variety is an excellent light beer with Zatec hops and a slight bitterness. A glass of Czech with meat sausages is an option when you want to unwind after a hard day and relax."
    I’m surprised that no one responded to the author’s unequivocal proposal to talk about something more pleasant than hardware. Beer and sausages are the most pleasant reason to talk about life on a Sunday evening. And you, readers, are all about your own firearms. wink
    1. 0
      10 December 2023 22: 30
      I don't like light things. Dark ale only
    2. +1
      11 December 2023 15: 03
      Epigraph to the article:
      “Czech variety” – excellent light beer
      with Zatec hops and slight bitterness.
      A glass of Czech with meat sausages –
      This is an option when you want to relax
      after a hard day and relax.
      We remind you that for this type of foam
      There is a 2+1 promotion.
      We are waiting for you in our store!”
      Modern advertising of one of the Russian stores

      continuation of this advertisement:
      « Khmelbum "CZECH" - Classic beer of transparent sunny color, with an excellent bitter taste, pleasant sharpness, thick and rich foam. The ingredients are: Czech malt, Žatec hops from the Czech Republic itself and the purest water from natural springs. The branded network of the private brewery Khmelbum in Penza and the region has a large number of stores and this is not the limit. Our plans are to provide you with high-quality and fresh beer in any part of our city and region! "
      .. And then there is an extensive list of Penza stores where you can buy this product - and even in a three-liter version. This is an advertisement for the products of the Penza brewery "Khmelbum" and its distribution network.
      I absolutely don’t want to make any rash conclusions or cast even the slightest shadow of suspicion on our dear Caliber, but given that the respected author is known as an associate professor of the Department of Communication Management at Penza State University, where he teaches PR and advertising, you will agree that this epigraph to the article looks something like this - very ambiguous winked recourse wink
      1. +1
        11 December 2023 21: 34
        It's clear what's going on wink
        I was surprised that the author has a strangely positive assessment of Czech beer. It seems like I’ve been to many places abroad, and judging by the articles, there are better places. In Prague, in the vast majority of places there are two types of beer - light and dark, especially in the tourist center. To find something interesting you need to go to breweries, but there aren’t many of them and you have to search. It's better there. Although, in order to understand the issue well, you need to constantly do this, and I don’t do beer tasting very often.
      2. +1
        13 December 2023 00: 23
        Shpakovsky has run out of psalms. Switches to the Koran. Along the way, it spams you with advertisements.
  18. 0
    10 December 2023 23: 45
    Strange design for 1947. Yes, with such a design it is more convenient to shoot from a tank, and it is also faster to leave it. Only now... Before the war, they were running around with the idea of ​​shooting from a tank through the loopholes with a rifle.
    But during the war, this idea completely showed its inconsistency.
    Therefore, there was no point in making such a complex cartridge supply design.
    On the other hand, PP is not mobilization; during war, you need more and cheaper, in a hurry.
    But the war is already over. It was already possible to dispense with such simplifications.
    .
    1. +3
      11 December 2023 00: 03
      As far as I understand, there was no talk of firing from the tank's loopholes; an assault rifle or submachine gun was needed for the crew who had left the vehicle (or outside the vehicle). In this regard, the sample is interesting because when leaving a tank in an emergency, it is not always possible to take both weapons and spare magazines. Therefore, a compact submachine gun with such a capacious magazine is definitely interesting. But the cons outweighed them.
      1. +4
        11 December 2023 00: 59
        Not entirely true, the author was slightly misleading.
        The magazine for the model for tankers with a folding stock was 32 rounds (some write 30), this can also be seen in the photo - the magazine is of standard length. The model with a wooden butt had a 72-round magazine. The 72 magazine could not be used with a folding stock.
        There was a good article on VO about this submachine gun, but there was a typo - it was erroneously written that for a wooden butt the magazine has 32 rounds, and for a folding stock there are also 32 rounds (the typo can be seen from the description in the article - the author compares different options several times).
        Below in the article the author correctly indicated the data for the wooden butt
        for the latest version of the ZB-47 submachine gun with a fixed stock, the following data is available. The length of the weapon is 760 millimeters with a barrel length of 265 millimeters. The weight of the weapon without ammunition is 3,3 kilograms. Weight of loaded magazine with a capacity of 72 rounds - 1,2 kilograms. Rate of fire 550 rounds per minute.

        https://topwar.ru/131380-pistolet-pulemet-s-prodolnym-raspolozheniem-magazina-zb-47.html
        1. +1
          11 December 2023 12: 18
          Thanks, I didn't notice. Yes, an interesting feature.
  19. 0
    11 December 2023 15: 54
    Kholek from the city of Pisek...
    A normal surname and town are also okay...
  20. +1
    11 December 2023 19: 48
    Well, I can see the fatal flaw right from the picture. The length of the magazine is prohibitive. It is not clear how a poor soldier can carry spare magazines, or where to put them - perhaps behind his back, like a ninja sword. Therefore, yes, weapons for tank crews, nothing more.
  21. 0
    16 December 2023 20: 38
    Let me allow myself a few harmless additions. Pardubice is the regional capital on the Prague-Vienna route, a very beautiful weapons museum. I held the submachine gun in my hand and it actually looks better than the picture. The problem was that it took too long to appear on the market, since the author did not want to transfer it to the needs of German units. By 1945 it was simply outdated. However, what is interesting and what you all know is the Israeli Uzi submachine gun and it looks like it is a clone of our Czech vz 23/24 submachine gun. The submachine gun in its modern form proved itself well in Cuba when repelling an enemy attack in the Bay of Pigs, and later in liberated battles in Africa. The submachine gun was helped by the transition to a Soviet cartridge, both in performance and performance. and production capabilities. It was effective in the Czechoslovak army until 1960, when the units were re-equipped with the excellent vz.57 submachine gun. I shot a lot of things as a student at a military school, and I still have the memory.
  22. 0
    27 December 2023 19: 13
    The submachine gun was developed for its main purpose - the defense of fortresses and redoubts. This thought was correct. Perhaps for this reason he did not prove himself in the army. He was inaccurate for attack and the army had its own machine guns. 24 and heavy vz 37. This machine gun was quite suitable for the defense of even a small fortress (Rozhik), which was defended by a machine gun supplemented by only one or two machine guns. Although the Czechoslovak army was not fully armed. The weapons allowed him to defend himself well. This would make it possible to mobilize the armies of France and Poland. The Soviet Union made it clear that it was ready to help Czechoslovakia. The betrayal was complete.
  23. 0
    21 February 2024 16: 03
    My friends, I am sad because in 1938 the Czechoslovak army was very well armed. Our grandfathers were ready to fight. They knew and had machine guns. 26 and fortress machine guns vz 37. Although there were no machine guns in the army yet, the firepower was comparable to the formations of the German army. We had weapons, but we were deceived by countries that deceive us today - England and France. I wanted to thank you for the pleasant conversation about Czechoslovak weapons and for the technical genius of Mr. Holecki. am