Revolvers and pistols from H to J

84
Revolvers and pistols from H to J


Black rubber pads
Fasten with a Phillips screw,
Feed him machine oil
And with the finest lead.

Adam Lindsay Gordon
(October 19, 1833 – June 24, 1870).

Little-known revolvers and pistols from A to Z. Today we continue our journey into the world of Belgian (and only Belgian!) revolvers and pistols, of which there were... countless manufacturers in this country! Therefore, it is impossible to show them all. And that’s why we show the most original, unusual and beautiful.



Today we have two letters H and J on our turn, and for each of them there is something to show. Although even Belgian historians know nothing about some samples weapons, and there is practically no information about the people who produced them.

But then there are the revolvers and pistols themselves. A fusion, so to speak, of human thought and skill. All photographs courtesy of Belgian weapons historian Alain Daubresse.


Revolver by Charles Haaken


Everything is relative. Charles Haaken's revolver and next to it a self-cocking (double action) Smith & Wesson .44 caliber revolver

Well, the first at our opening day will be a certain Charles Haaken, who produced revolvers like these with the marking “CH” in a circle.

And - look, despite the fact that it is already more than 100 years old, much more, its nickel coating has also been preserved, and most of it is covered by metal engraving, although it was done rather crudely.

Original ebony handle grips. Both single and double action. It has a folding trigger and a side extractor on the right side of the barrel. Caliber 7 mm. The barrel has a length of 54 mm, the total length of the revolver is 127 mm. Was released in 1877.

It's nice when your children inherit your business. Apparently, Charles Haaken's son grew up, so his company became known as Charles Haaken and Son. And they released a police-style pocket revolver, clearly inspired by RIC revolvers ("Ireland Police Revolver").

The drum is designed for 6 shots. The barrel is octagonal with a small crescent-shaped front sight. Loading is carried out through the “Abadi door”, which is raised by an internal spring. Discharge - using a cleaning rod with a cap, sliding in a guide integrated into the frame and held by a small leaf spring.

The wooden handle plates are most likely walnut wood. The handle ends in a suspension ring held in place by a screw. Acceptance mark after 1893.


Revolver of the company "Haaken and Son"

Some revolvers produced by Europeans (as opposed to American ones) were initially very similar in design to traditional percussion cap and even flintlock pistols.

But what to do if the inertia of thinking is so strong in people?


Charles Haaken-Plomder revolver

Here, for example, is the Haaken-Plomder Charles revolver. Side trigger. Ignition is capsule. Apparently it's 31 gauge.

Built in an original way. There is a lock under the barrel that releases the barrel and allows it to be lifted to remove the cylinder. The original engraving is made in a floral style.

The weapon has an oval with the letters “ELG” on it, confirming its Belgian origin. It also has the initials "HP" on it, which are Haaken-Plomder's initials.


And this is how the drum was removed from it in an unusual way...

All that is known about the Belgian arms manufacturer Heinen Jean is that he was registered at the Liege testing laboratory from 1894 to 1897. In 1897, he filed a patent for improvements he made to the design of the Martini Henry rifle mechanism. That's all this man has glorified himself for.

But he also produced Galan revolvers...


Galan Heinen revolver 1868. It differs from the standard Galan revolver only in the shape of the trigger guard lever and the 12 mm caliber!


Patent for the pistol "Enrar Jean and Discri A."

Jean Enrard, started the gunsmithing business around 1913 while living in Herstal. In the same year, he received his first patents and created the company Enrard J. and Co., which operated after its registration in the Liege testing laboratory from 1914 to 1919.

In 1920, Jean Enrard joined forces with Alphonse Discri and created the new company Enrar Jean et Discri A. However, they did not work together for long, until 1925.


The pistol they produced was extremely simple in design and could easily be taken apart


Pistol "Enrar Jean and Discri A." Left view


Pistol "Enrar Jean and Discri A." Right view

A very interesting revolver of the transition period from single-barreled pistols to pererboxes and single-barrel drum revolvers was proposed in 1853 by Hermann Jean-Jacques. The engraving of hunting scenes on it is a clear anachronism, since this revolver could not have been intended for hunting.

It is interesting to compare this European 11mm revolver with Colt revolvers, which were produced in the USA at the same time.


Revolver by Jean-Jacques Herman


Revolver of 7 mm caliber by Hermann-Ledoux Joseph. The design feature is a folding barrel. By pressing a button on the barrel frame, the barrel was disengaged from the frame, the barrel was folded down, and the drum was removed for unloading and loading... And it has neither a ramrod nor an “Abadi door.” Approximate production period, 1853 to 1877


Pierre Hermine-Thiry produced Velodog revolvers in 6 mm caliber. Their feature was a drum that tilted to the right, while the lever that controlled it was located on the left of the frame


“Velodog” by Pierre Herminy-Thiry and “Colt Special”, as well as their cartridges, in comparison


Revolver by Joseph Hillebrandt. Total length: 285 mm. Barrel length: 157 mm, 6 chambers .450 caliber

The rear part of the barrel with locking notches is reinforced. The rear sight and front sight are at the end of the barrel, secured using a dovetail system. This revolver has an original lever system that moves the barrel forward. The differences from the Galan revolver are undeniable.


Revolver by Joseph Hillebrandt. The lever pushing the barrel with the drum forward is lowered all the way down

Some of the XNUMXth century revolvers are ordinary in almost every way, except for some of their creations, giving it an unusual appearance.

Here, for example, is Joseph Gaspard's revolver, which is a regular open-frame revolver chambered for centerfire cartridges. Abadi door, cleaning rod - everything is in place.

But just look at how fancy the cast brass handle is!


Joseph Gaspard's revolver, left view


Joseph Gaspard's revolver, right view


Revolver of the Jongen brothers company. All covered with engraving


It's him. The drum has been removed. There is a drum lock on the left side


The same revolver without engraving


And this is how it unfolded

J. Julien from Liege made revolvers chambered for pin cartridges, which were copies of the Lefauchet-Jansen model, but with an innovation patented by Julien. Apparently, he really wanted to enter history firearms, and he succeeded!


Revolver by J. Julien from Liege


The same revolver with the lock raised

Instead of the usual “Abadi door,” he proposed an L-shaped lock attached to the vertical rib of the barrel. Being raised, it opened the holes in the drum on the right, and if it was lowered, it closed them and at the same time increased the rigidity of the system with an open frame. That is, it can also be called a “locking top frame” revolver!

Caliber 12 mm. Ebony handle grips. Markings indicate that such revolvers were produced from 1853 to 1877.

To be continued ...
84 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +2
    9 December 2023 04: 11
    The Jongen brothers' revolver is funny. Recoil shoulder wow. But it’s probably convenient to aim.
    1. +8
      9 December 2023 06: 00
      Good morning Andrey, good morning Comrades!
      Probably aims comfortably

      It is doubtful, personal experience proves that the closer the index finger (with which we pull the trigger) to the aiming line (straight line of the eye(s), front sight, rear sight), the more comfortable it is.
      For the continuation of the cycle, respect to Vyacheslav Olegovich and ours! Considering this variety of schemes, the creative potential of Belgian designers, spurred by copyright, is surprising.
      Have a nice day, everyone!
  2. +3
    9 December 2023 06: 06
    Haaken revolver 7mm caliber? Yes, this is half the thickness of a finger, the whole trunk is that thick! Wonderful are your works, Lord...
    But one thing can be said about the Jongen brothers’ revolver: a successful weapon, even purely aesthetically, looks beautiful. Not like this one)))
  3. +4
    9 December 2023 06: 34
    Their feature was a drum that tilted to the right,
    -------
    When raised, it opened holes in the drum on the right,


    I was wondering why the reloading circuits on many revolver models are oriented to the right side? This is inconvenient, or am I wrong?
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    1. +5
      9 December 2023 07: 10
      I was wondering why the reloading circuits on many revolver models are oriented to the right side?
      Obviously, in order to reload the drum separately by cartridge or with a “speedloader”, take the revolver in your left hand with your right hand. Although on modern revolvers of a certain brand the cylinder tilts to the left (example: Ruger & C).
      1. +2
        9 December 2023 07: 17
        taking the revolver to the left.
        This shifting from hand to hand is inconvenient.
    2. +3
      9 December 2023 07: 13
      Because most people are right-handed and it is more convenient to reload cartridges from rossipi with the right hand
      1. +3
        9 December 2023 07: 20
        As my many years of practice have shown, the left one is more convenient from scattering. But in my case we are not talking about cartridges and perhaps this is a personal professional deformation.
        1. +4
          9 December 2023 07: 28
          Well, this is a matter of training... take, for example, modern AK reloading... everything is also done with the left hand... if full, just without throwing it to the ground... with the left, in the catcher at the 5th point, a new one from the pouch... the bolt too from the bottom left and on the forend... shot... otherwise just into the pouch, pressed the latch with the store, etc.
          It’s just that revolvers are now more of a self-defense weapon, where the question is to fire a quick shot and reloading actually doesn’t matter, or for heavy-duty cartridges starting from .357 magnum, etc.
          To be honest, I don’t understand the meaning of revolvers. I had the opportunity to shoot very small at the age of 8... a revolver and Khaidur's sports... I won't even say the model right now.
          1. +3
            9 December 2023 07: 38
            To be honest, I don’t understand the meaning of revolvers.
            To be honest, me too when it comes to modern models. The only advantage over automatics is the faster change of misfired cartridge.
            1. +4
              9 December 2023 07: 45
              It's more of a safety issue. If it misfires... I'll distort (hmm hmm feel ) faster.... Only there may be a prolonged shot and the cartridge may fire when it is removed or even when it flies out of the window (the 2nd moment is actually more dangerous for you, because the cartridge case can fly + burns, but is less critical when shooting , because you will be able to continue it, in the first case you will catch the wedge, because the sleeve will either inflate or rupture and then our powers... that’s all (c))
              1. +1
                9 December 2023 11: 09
                “More self-defense weapons” I would like to shoot with a revolver and a pistol..
                Vera let me click from Izh, can you imagine what will happen if you shoot with a pistol in the city?
                In the mountains I shoot from a vertical rifle, it is light and comfortable, the targets are old pumpkins, the last one, Musa’s grandson, put big yellow cucumbers out of spite. 3" pieces hit.
                True, in Grandfather Musa’s garden, you can shoot a cannon, no one will “see” it, but they will recognize you.
                The first time I broke 5 pumpkins, distance: 27 meters. The next day, a local police officer bought me a cake
                1. +2
                  9 December 2023 11: 11
                  Pyaterochka in the next house, the product is called a snack... there is home delivery! laughing
            2. +4
              9 December 2023 09: 40
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              The only advantage over automatics is the faster change of misfired cartridge.

              Can be stored charged.
              hi
              1. +4
                9 December 2023 09: 59
                You can also have a gun, although legally you can’t. Yes, there will be questions, but to be honest with me and with an injury, for example, it was the case that there was a cartridge in the chamber. But the matter did not reach the administrative level beyond general conversations.
                ZY My father was in the service, when he was in the mentor, he always wore a service pistol with a cartridge in the chamber. And this saved his life twice. And according to the law, it was done in the air later under the USSR. To account for the cartridge case. In 2% of cases, witnesses usually have no claims that a 146nd round was fired into the air wassat lol
                1. +3
                  9 December 2023 10: 07
                  I'm talking about the spring in the store.
                  request
                  P.S. Are you okay, that is, did you come in through the “bell”?
                  For some reason I had to open the article...
                  1. +5
                    9 December 2023 10: 17
                    The bell went off again. You just know that the answer to the article came from the comments... I’m looking for it with my hands.

                    Not a normal spring. Moreover, I will say... that I haven’t lubricated or cleaned the PSM for 5-6 years (i.e. I shot it dry and only pressed the cartridges back and forth with shots a couple of times in the store... it was in the safe) - I shot all 2 magazines regularly and the fact that there were 4 packs - only 1 time was prolonged and 1 misfire. But the cartridges in the packs were old (82 years old). There are no complaints at all about the IZH-78-9TM with magnum AKBS (2011 cartridges) - there were 10 packs. Actually, I plan to take it, because... You can’t really buy an AKBS Magnum right now... And there’s no point in even stuttering about 5,45x18. There is only 1 store left and those from 88. You can get it, all the documents are there, but the prices are unrealistic
                    1. +3
                      9 December 2023 11: 12
                      “I was looking for it with my own hands”
                      1. +3
                        9 December 2023 11: 22
                        “I was looking for it with my own hands”
                        Likewise. Today, Saturday, the bell is resting. AI, however!)))
                      2. +4
                        9 December 2023 11: 25
                        Thank you at least for this one, otherwise I already forgot about them
                      3. +4
                        9 December 2023 11: 28
                        Thank you at least for this one, otherwise I already forgot about them

                        Without fish there is cancer in fish (proverb)
                        On the birdless - and (academician A. N. Krylov)
                      4. +4
                        9 December 2023 12: 01
                        AI already went on a drinking binge towards evening yesterday drinks wassat
                      5. +2
                        10 December 2023 19: 17
                        And today the bell only notified, but you will have to search with your hands
                      6. +1
                        10 December 2023 19: 28
                        The bell said my head hurts after yesterday
                      7. +1
                        10 December 2023 19: 47
                        It’s quite possible, I don’t go into such wilds
                      8. +1
                        10 December 2023 19: 44
                        And today the bell only notified, but you will have to search with your hands
                        Same thing yesterday. AI has non-working days, Saturday and Sunday. I have a vague feeling that this will happen all week, if not more.
                  2. +2
                    9 December 2023 10: 51
                    Quote: Senior Sailor
                    I'm talking about the spring in the store.
                    request
                    P.S. Are you okay, that is, did you come in through the “bell”?
                    For some reason I had to open the article...

                    Similarly!
              2. +3
                9 December 2023 10: 20
                Quote: Senior Sailor
                Can be stored charged.
                Yes. There is also no need to remove the safety before starting shooting, collect the cartridges after, and there are more options for a serious cartridge (yes, pistols have Dessert Eagle, but this is an exception).
                1. +2
                  9 December 2023 10: 30
                  The same TT has a safety cock, and almost all pistols have an open hammer. Glock and ala generally have half-cock in fact... so the topic is controversial.
    3. +8
      9 December 2023 07: 14
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      to the right side

      It was believed that this was more convenient for cavalrymen: you hold the reins and the revolver with your left, and load with your right!
      1. +5
        9 December 2023 07: 32
        If we are talking about regular cavalry, I agree, it is possible to throw the revolver and draw the blade
      2. +3
        9 December 2023 07: 37
        Well, the biggest cavalry battles date back to the Napoleonic wars... there was even a separate class - dragoons... essentially they rode with a bunch of muzzle-loaders in holsters on their harness, and then as usual. There were no more such massive uses of cavalry, when more than ten thousand people (and horses) came together. After the advent of rifled and breech-loading weapons, there was no such massive use of cavalry. Therefore, which is more convenient is a moot point
        1. +6
          9 December 2023 07: 51
          After the advent of rifled and breech-loading weapons
          I'll tell you more! The only corps dragoon formation in Russia was disbanded precisely for this reason. Only they didn’t spare people, but horses...
          1. +3
            9 December 2023 08: 19
            Actually, that’s why I wrote... I definitely can’t even remember a year now... memory also tends to age... The only cavalry that was used to the extreme was the cuirassiers...
            1. 0
              10 December 2023 19: 20
              And I thought: lancers
        2. +6
          9 December 2023 09: 50
          Quote from Enceladus
          Napoleonic wars... there was even a separate class - dragoons... essentially they rode with a bunch of muzzle-loaders in holsters on their harness,

          I'm sorry. I somehow associate “a bunch of muzzleloaders on a harness” with earlier times and reiters.
          Dragoons in Bonya's time were still riding infantry
          Quote from Enceladus
          After the advent of rifled and breech-loading weapons, there was no such massive use of cavalry.

          The last purely cavalry battle is considered to be the “Battle of Yaroslavitsa”.
          The 10th Cavalry Division of Count Keller and the 4th Austrian von Zaremba met.
          The Austrians were defeated.
          1. +4
            9 December 2023 10: 10
            Colleague... I apologize, I don’t remember such nuances now. I haven’t had time to get involved in history for a long time - I say + - that I remember. Yes, dragoons were essentially “finished” infantry, unlike cuirassiers, hussars, Cossacks, lancers, etc. This is something, yes, the current motorized infantry, without armor... like on an armored personnel carrier. In fact, they were generally just muzzle-loading pistols with flint locks or wheel locks, after use they were essentially thrown away
            Z.y. I don't mind if you correct me. But I remember 100% that either on 08-09 or after 12 there was the largest cavalry battle (I mean 18xx) - but I don’t even remember exactly which one right now. To be honest, I have a hard time even remembering the details of Austerlitz and Leibniz. Just don’t blame me, please, for what I’m writing that I don’t know about. I just knew before... but you can drink away knowledge drinks laughing
            1. +6
              9 December 2023 10: 19
              In general, I’m also a specialist. feel
              Actually, it all depends on the period.
              Initially, reiters and cuirassiers fought with pistols. The first fired at the infantry square until they broke formation and ran, then rushed to the attack. The second rushed immediately but unloaded their pistols before the collision.
              Subsequently, tactics changed several times.
              But no one ever threw a weapon after a shot, because it was expensive!
              1. +3
                9 December 2023 10: 28
                Well, in battle, every second is precious, if the battlefield is behind you, then everything was picked up later and did not have time to rust, and if it’s not behind you... then it doesn’t matter - the enemy will pick it up one way or another. It’s like in modern combat, you can, if the battle is positional, then the magazines are thrown into the scraps at the 5th point, and if it’s tryndey, then you just take the magazine out of the pouch and snap it off, and it doesn’t matter whether it gets lost or not and that you have to clean it from the ground or sand
                1. +5
                  9 December 2023 10: 31
                  Quote from Enceladus
                  then it was all picked up later and didn’t have time to rust

                  Yes of course, Yes You bought a wheeled dopelfaster with a horse price tag for your own money, and some beggar comrade from the banner of Pan Rvanoukhov’s coat of arms “Naked Dupa” will pick it up.
                  1. +2
                    9 December 2023 10: 36
                    THEN the mortality rate reached 50% and many died even from simple wounds. There were no antibiotics or anything at all. Then the cannonballs even flew in to the generals... that even the terver was a mess. Well, I can only judge by modern combat. If there was a big mess, for example, I wasn’t going to spend time at the store... And then they didn’t really look at the numbers, that you had a trophy one... they just wrote it off and that’s it. In general, I spent 4 years with a captured PSM instead of a standard PM lol
                    1. +4
                      9 December 2023 10: 42
                      Quote from Enceladus
                      For example, I wasn’t going to spend time going to the store...

                      Unification because... And centralized supply
                      And in those distant times they didn’t even know such words.
                      Again, carving is not a quick process. While the rest of the ranks were shooting, the first one could have time to reload
                      1. +2
                        9 December 2023 10: 51
                        Well, then, the Prussians and Austrians adopted a 3-rank formation... 5 fuselier companies, skirmishers on the left, grenadiers on the right, 2 more (emnip) like the French.
                        But it was difficult for them to maintain formation and change into a square, so then it all turned into a 2-column formation, but at the same time the fire impact was reduced, because Only the front row fired, and even the artillery caused quite significant damage. But it was much easier to change into a square and the mobility was higher. It's a double-edged sword. Actually, Napoleon made a revolution in military affairs with a 3-line formation; if everyone then fought with a common army, then in fact each brigade of 500-600 people, so to speak, was independent in itself.
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        Unification because... And centralized supply

                        Now yes... but from my own experience I will say... that non-native stores are not very suitable for SVD... wedges often happened... and VAL/VSS is generally a disease... there yes... a local store is like you are taking care of your own mother... but I won’t even talk about the 2s on the shaft... more than 16 rounds were not loaded... wedge 90%
                      2. +5
                        9 December 2023 10: 57
                        Quote from Enceladus
                        Well, apparently the Prussians and Austrians adopted a 3-row formation ..

                        Dear colleague, remember what I wrote to you?
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        Actually, it all depends on the period.

                        Quote: Typically, the formation of reytars for karakole had a width of about 20 horsemen and a depth of about 10-15 rows.
                      3. +1
                        9 December 2023 11: 03
                        I didn't mean the infantry. recourse Then, in general, they switched to a solid square and a deep formation (I just thought that if I said about fusiliers, grenadiers and voltigeurs, it would be understandable). What I’m saying is that this is precisely where Bon’s success lay. Alas, right now I don’t remember all the terminalology... only in general terms... And I asked you not to kick too hard lol feel
                      4. +4
                        9 December 2023 11: 17
                        Colleague, I can tell you one thing about throwing weapons. Ironsides Cromwell was hanged for this))
                        And about later things... You probably won’t believe it, but the first German rifle chambered for a metal cartridge (Mauser -1871), at the request of the generals, did not have an extractor. And the soldiers were trained to shake the cartridges directly into their bags after a shot.
                        Russian soldiers were taught to catch Berdanka cartridges on the fly and put five in a bag, and after the battle hand them over to the non-commissioned officer. Because they are made of copper and CSH are expensive!
                        And you say to throw away the pistols.... yeah right now!!!
                      5. +1
                        9 December 2023 11: 27
                        At KSVK we did the same thing, because... Because of the “quality” of the 7N34, we gave 2/3 of the cartridges to the “infantry” - we reloaded the rest ourselves. Despite the tolerances, even within the batch, the slope of the cartridge case along the chamber could be 0.2mm!!!! be different, I’m not even talking about the load and the bullets themselves... at 1200m it might not have mattered... although it happened that the shutter simply jammed or the primer pierced... but at 1600+ meters it was a mess... well, that’s how we lived . For longer ranges, purely numbered verified cartridges were used... for what was closer, they used gross ones somehow
                      6. +4
                        9 December 2023 15: 48
                        Quote: Senior Sailor
                        And you tell me to throw away the pistols

                        Somewhere I had a price for English cuirassier pistols. So there the apprentice had to work for him for almost a year. It’s a pity I don’t remember the exact numbers, but look for it... where can you find it?
                  2. +3
                    9 December 2023 11: 23
                    The “beggar comrade” will not say thank you that he was lucky enough to own a pistol of great value.
                  3. +3
                    9 December 2023 11: 32
                    You bought a wheeled dopelfaster with a crazy price tag with your own money, and some poor friend will pick it up
                    It seems logical, but does the 200 or 300 need his former device?
                    1. +4
                      9 December 2023 12: 00
                      Due to the injury, the KSVK had to be left... (the armor plate was not pierced, but the collarbone and 2 ribs later became clear). The 2nd number of her RGO was blown up along with 15+ rounds of ammunition. Why the Russian Geographical Society... and we didn’t carry others with us... although the UDS is still crap... it happened that grenades with fuses arrived, and half of them crumbled in our hands... I’m exaggerating of course... but the fact took place request
            2. +4
              9 December 2023 10: 32
              Quote from Enceladus
              after use they were essentially thrown away

              What do you! They were expensive, who would throw something like that away. Take care!
        3. +4
          9 December 2023 10: 08
          there was even a separate class - dragoons... essentially they rode with a bunch of muzzle-loaders in holsters on their harness,
          Only these weren't dragoons. Dragoons are a branch of troops trained to operate both on horseback and on foot. And the ones you insisted on were called “pistoliers”.
          1. +3
            9 December 2023 10: 23
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            "pistoliers"


            That’s how interested I was in history before... I don’t remember this wording recourse The fact that dragoons are essentially infantry on horseback... I already wrote above... but if you chew on it, I’m glad to read it from someone who is in the know. Right now I’m on sick leave - I have nothing to do, I started reading again drinks
            1. +3
              9 December 2023 10: 26
              Quote from Enceladus
              I'm glad to read it

              Read "The Adventures of Prince Johann of Mecklenburg"))) feel
              There the main character begins his service in the “black reiters” wink
            2. +2
              9 December 2023 10: 35
              Quote from Enceladus
              but if you chew it, I’m glad to read it from someone who is in the know.

              I had a series of articles here on cuirassiers and reiters, right down to analyzing them on the canvases of battle painters. Use a search engine to find...
              1. +2
                9 December 2023 10: 40
                Vyacheslav, thanks! drinks
                ................................................
                ZY The comment is short, now not short lol
            3. +1
              9 December 2023 21: 13
              On sick leave right now

              Get well!
              drinks
              1. +2
                9 December 2023 21: 14
                Have a nice one you too! drinks hi
                Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
                Get well!
  4. +1
    9 December 2023 06: 59
    Yeah... really from X to F good lol Well, sorry I couldn’t resist again feel
    Here yesterday the topic came up about Lebedev's... what kind of and what is there 9x19 with a blowback, ala PM.
    Most of them are semi-blowback in one way or another... offhand, the current VP-70 was with a blowback, they managed to voice it before me. And I remembered PMM and P7 (NK)

    It was modular in the literal sense in the 90s - it seems like a bummer, I can’t remember which MC right now... modularity didn’t catch on. In general, I hit the fan with topics. From all this, current was fired from the Dart and the PMM. To me, Dart is stillborn. It doesn’t have the PSM stealth features (which I’ve owned for almost 20 years, not counting the Izh-78-9tm 15ku, almost), the use of a line-up shot is just that... and it weighs like a brick. In general, there is no end to the work! good drinks
    1. +5
      9 December 2023 07: 40
      Good morning!
      PSM and Dartik are highly specialized weapons. The first is oriented for concealed carry, a weapon of last chance at the expense of stopping effect. It was said in the 90s that a mistress, having received three wounds, beat a “high-ranking friend” to death with an iron.
      A dart is, in principle, a machine for specific tasks and solutions.
      Regarding the Ministry of Internal Affairs, I will repeat enough PM. It was possible to limit ourselves to minimal changes to the magazine and handle, similar to the PMM.
      However, Lebedev is good. Yesterday I shot 4 rounds from the KPL. A little unusual, in weight distribution, but it fits well in the hand. The descent is smoother. The sound of the shot is louder. Fits perfectly “on target”. The rear sight and front sight are clear and marked. I even thought about how to get something like this out of my report card.
      I shot without time, all four at 9, accuracy into a fist slightly above the center of the target. Liked.
      1. +3
        9 December 2023 08: 00
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        It was said in the 90s that a mistress, having received three wounds, beat a “high-ranking friend” to death with an iron.

        This story is old. I won’t tell you the original... but the situation was such that the mistress and lover from TT got the store... and survived, but the officer shot himself. After this type, they announced a competition for a new pistol of a larger caliber (i.e., which became the PM). My grandfather also told me in the 80s
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        Good morning!

        Morning is never good! drinks laughing
        Shot from Dartik and PSM. I honestly don’t see the point in a dart... 3 shots from it have no advantages over 9x21 with the same mass of weapons. PSM as a weapon of last chance + light and hidden attacks when shooting in the head and training have more room to live. And I had to use it like that. Everything is important in training, even when “idle”.
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        The rear sight and front sight are clear and marked.

        Honestly, I shoot intuitively, without aiming. But we require repeated and many hours of training and shooting (I wrote that I have more than 2 thousand rounds with the Makarov) - and this is a pistol that is quite capricious in terms of skill. But that’s the funny thing, that you shoot from “your own”. I remember the police chief asked me to repeat it with his PM - it didn’t work out, from my father’s 3k everything was 10k
        1. +6
          9 December 2023 08: 07
          This story is old.

          No, not a story. It was in Kazakhstan, they called me names. The investigator told the story, whose boss was hit with an iron.
          1. +2
            9 December 2023 08: 25
            Well, I’m talking about the reason for the appearance of PM - this bliss takes place. During the war, TT as a whole made sense; there wasn’t really any PPE at that time, except for cuirass. In civilian life, no... the stopping effect is important there - in the domestic sector they didn’t bother with this. From PSM it’s similar - the only point is a head shot - otherwise the bullet just pierces right through and that’s it. I carried it only as a weapon of last chance and nothing more. And the fact that it gained popularity again in the 90s is that it penetrated concealed wearing body armor of the 1st class of protection, and in the 2nd class it had a good armor effect, thanks to the high energy of the bullet - i.e. formally it did not penetrate class 2, but it could cause rib fractures and hydrodynamic shock to internal organs and rupture of everything where the bullet hit
    2. 0
      10 December 2023 19: 28
      Vera buzzed all ears: oh, what a PSM. If she's not lying, then for 2 years she dreamed that she was cleaning it
  5. +2
    9 December 2023 07: 11
    By the way, there is one channel in the pipe - “Give me a gun”... the guy lives in the Czech Republic. I wrote like...it shows a lot of rare things. But for me, right now it’s easier to turn a “modern” PM on a lathe and milling machine than such rare designs laughing
    In fact, all that's left now is
    1. Blowback for low-pulse cartridges up to 2 kg*m/s impulse
    2. Browning scheme with lowering the barrel
    3. “earrings” and, in fact, due to the fact that the US Army adopted the Beretta 92 for service.

    Z.Y. I shot a little from the GSh-18. Honestly? Aviation guns are much better.
    1. +3
      9 December 2023 07: 58
      GSh-18, PYa, Berdysh - were not included. Pamper yourself - yes, the rest, including cleaning, no. I liked Gyurza, but not for everyday wear. At one time I wanted to stir up APS. Taking tests is a breeze, but it’s not eligible for my category. Yes, and they figured out this feature in professional training. They began to demand only PM.
      Today there are still TTs in the bins. So I think that at first they will be written off along with all the incompetents that appeared in 90 and 00, including PMM. And only then will the PM be carried out in the open hearths.
      1. +2
        9 December 2023 08: 36
        Nope, the gyurza is still that ax laughing But I didn’t have the chance to shoot like from the APS, but I held both of them in my hands.
        And now the old barrels were remade quite a lot for injuries, but in 10x the nuts were tightened in the ZOO like a firearm with a limited... and the shop closed. By the way, I have an IZH-78-9TM completely original PSM, just with a welded tooth and a plastic handle from Izha 78 (which is for export and as a service one)
  6. +5
    9 December 2023 08: 42
    Well, the first at our opening day will be a certain Charles Haaken, who produced revolvers like these with the marking “CH” in a circle.

    A certain Charles Haaken, who supposedly made this revolver, was not original. At that time, such pocket pin revolvers were very popular and were produced en masse by Belgian manufacturers. Moreover, there were “female” and “male” options. Unfortunately, full-fledged illustrations are no longer included in the commentary, so a short explanation. The first photo is the “female” version. The second is “male”. The difference was in the case. The “women’s” compartment had a compartment for cosmetics, and the “men’s” one had a compartment for glasses or cigars.
    1. +3
      9 December 2023 09: 25
      Then, I urgently need a “female* version. No one has such a cosmetic bag, but I do. And even if it’s in working condition. I’m first in line
      1. +6
        9 December 2023 09: 42
        So what's the problem. Go to antiqueweaponstore or proantic, or any other online weapons auction, enter CASED FRENCH LADY'S MINIATURE PINFIRE REVOLVER into the search and buy for 1500 - 2000 euros.
        1. +2
          9 December 2023 11: 33
          Dear Decembrist, 1) I don’t have 2 thousand euros available
          2 (“I’m afraid of prison factors” (C) I’m at home, for some reason it’s more comfortable, but what about others. I wasn’t interested
          1. +4
            9 December 2023 15: 42
            Quote from lisikat2
            Wasn't interested

            The main problem is only money. You buy it, ask to deactivate it, and you get a gun that doesn’t fire, along with all the paperwork. There are 0 complaints from our police.
            1. +1
              11 December 2023 18: 15
              “A pistol that doesn’t shoot” is almost a violin without strings: there is a form, but zero benefit
  7. +4
    9 December 2023 09: 20
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, I liked the “Colt Special” purely aesthetically - it’s so elegant and, probably, comfortable. He appears in MacDonald's detective stories.
    And Gaspar's revolver, the engraving has improved. I would hang this one on the wall.
    It’s up to you men to evaluate the fighting qualities of revolvers or pistols, but for me it’s more interesting: completeness and beautiful finishing.
    Pistols and revolvers from the mid-19th century were distinguished by their lining. There were such samples that you couldn’t take your eyes off them
    1. +3
      9 December 2023 12: 08
      Quote from lisikat2
      I liked the Colt Special purely aesthetically - it’s so elegant and probably comfortable

      Ummm... In what terms did you mean feel
      Quote from lisikat2
      I would hang this on the wall

      There are usually devices there lol
      Quote from lisikat2
      It’s up to you men to evaluate the fighting qualities of revolvers or pistols, but for me it’s more interesting: completeness and beautiful finishing.

      Usually the first role for a girl to evaluate
      Quote from lisikat2
      There were such samples that you couldn’t take your eyes off them

      good
      ZY Couldn't resist good laughing Credit for comment! feel fellow wassat love
      1. +1
        10 December 2023 19: 36
        Thank you for your comment . Purely externally, I liked: “Colt_- special*: it seems comfortable and beautiful, and Gaspar’s engraving is beautiful
  8. +5
    9 December 2023 09: 36
    Some revolvers produced by Europeans (as opposed to American ones) were initially very similar in design to traditional percussion cap and even flintlock pistols.

    Here you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, let’s say, are seriously misleading the audience. The Haaken-Plomdeur Charles revolver is from the mid-XNUMXth century. And in the middle of the XNUMXth century, both American and European revolvers had capsules. There was no unitary cartridge yet. But the American and European revolvers differed in the design of the trigger and frame. We have already discussed more than once the issue that ittlegun.be needs to be carefully checked.
    Haaken-Plomdeur Charles is the Belgian gunsmith Charles Gaspar Haaken. Under this name he can be found in the Bulletin municipal ou recueil des arrêtés et règlements de l'administration communale de Liège for 1860 on page 112. Plomdeur is the surname of his wife - Marie Jeanne Plomdeur.
    And Jacques Joseph Charles Haaken is his son, also a dressmaker who made pocket pin revolvers. That is, you violated the chronology.
    There have always been a lot of people with the surname Haaken in Liege. It can be very difficult to figure out “who is who.”
    1. +5
      9 December 2023 10: 40
      Quote: Dekabrist
      That is, you violated the chronology.

      Thank you for pointing me on the right path! But you can see for yourself that it is difficult for the Haakens to deal with them. There's their whole family there.
  9. +1
    9 December 2023 11: 49
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, friends, off topic.
    Vera called and asked for advice, she ran to work and dropped her bag with her phone on the rails. Yesterday I bought a new one, now I can’t log into the site. I don’t want to register again, but how to log in: “wrong address or password”
    Who knows, tell me!
    1. +1
      9 December 2023 12: 10
      Dropped or dropped? In the second case, just give birth again laughing
      1. 0
        10 December 2023 19: 46
        I broke it on the rails. In fact, she touched her nose.
        When I bought the phone, the toad crushed it and didn’t buy it with fast charging
        However, almost everyone without fast charging
    2. +6
      9 December 2023 13: 59
      In the resource login window there is a “Forgot your password?” button. I suggest you use it.
  10. +1
    12 December 2023 08: 34
    I collect pneumatic replicas, I recently purchased such a beauty - Crosman Remington 1875. I can’t stop looking at it. Heavy for shooting. There is also a Nagan silver glacier. I’m also thinking of purchasing a Colt Army as a cowboy attribute of the Wild West. Thank you to Vyacheslav Olegovich for the article.