Development trends of domestic heavy flamethrower systems

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Development trends of domestic heavy flamethrower systems
TOS-1 "Buratino" in the process of reloading


Over the past several decades, the Soviet and Russian defense industry has been developing heavy flamethrower systems - a special kind of rocket artillery with thermobaric ammunition. To date, several samples of this class have been created, each of which has its own characteristics and characteristics. Due to such differences, due to the use of new ideas, each subsequent model shows higher characteristics and combat qualities.



History of development


The development of the first domestic modern heavy flamethrower system, later designated TOS-1 and Buratino, started in the early seventies. The next few years were spent searching for optimal solutions and components that would form the overall appearance of the complex. At the end of the decade, the first prototypes were built and then successfully passed the necessary tests.

Due to various factors, TOS-1 went into production and entered service only in the second half of the eighties. Soon after this, the system was tested in practice in Afghanistan. At the turn of the nineties and two thousand, “Pinocchio” was used in Chechnya to fight gangs. In all cases, high fire efficiency was demonstrated.


TOS-1A "Solcepek", involved in the Special Operation to protect Donbass

In 2001, a modernized version of TOS-1 was developed under the designation TOS-1A “Solntsepek”. Over time, modified combat vehicles replaced the equipment of the first model in the troops. In addition, TOS-1A attracted the interest of foreign countries and became a fairly successful export product.

Like “Buratino”, “Solntsepeki” repeatedly participated in battles. Thus, in Syria they were used by Russian and local troops. Several combat vehicles of this type were sold to Iraq, and it also used them against terrorists. Since last year, the Russian army has regularly used the TOS-1A as part of the Special Operation to demilitarize Ukraine. This technique once again demonstrates its ability to inflict significant damage on the enemy.

At the end of the tenth years, using the accumulated experience, a new flamethrower system was developed - TOS-2 “Tosochka”. In its architecture, it is radically different from its predecessors, but has similar or higher tactical and technical characteristics. Since 2020, Tosochki have repeatedly participated in exercises, and recently it became known about their use in Special Operations.

According to known data, the industry is now engaged in the production and fine-tuning of existing types of TOC. There are plans to develop existing samples, primarily “Tosochka”. In addition, the possibility of creating new flamethrower systems based on promising tracked platforms has been mentioned in the past. Whether these plans remain relevant is unknown.


"Solntsepek" and standard TZM

Technical evolution


The TOS-1 “Pinocchio” product had a characteristic, recognizable appearance. It was built on a chassis tank T-72, due to which a high level of mobility and protection was obtained. Jacks appeared at the rear of the chassis for stabilization when firing. Instead of the standard turret, they installed an original launcher with 30 220 mm caliber guides. An original fire control system was developed, which ensured the effective use of standard shells.

TOS-1 was armed with the MO.1.01.04 missile. It was a 220 mm caliber rocket and approx. 3,3 m with a starting weight of 173 kg. About two-thirds of the body of such a missile is occupied by a thermobaric warhead with a liquid fire mixture. The remaining volume is allocated for a solid fuel engine. Due to its limited size, it provided a firing range of only 3,6 km. At the same time, the short firing range was compensated by the power of the warhead.

The transport-loader was supposed to work together with the Buratino combat vehicle. Initially, it was built on a KrAZ vehicle. On the cargo platform of the vehicle there were fastenings for transporting missiles and a crane for loading them onto the launcher.

The modernized TOS-1A combat vehicle retained the general architecture of the base model, but received updated units. The most noticeable changes have been made to the launcher. It lost the top row of guides, which reduced the ammunition load to 24 missiles. At the same time, the pipe package received improved ballistic protection. Fire control devices have undergone significant modifications. They also developed an improved MO.1.01.04M projectile with a length of 3,7 m and a weight of 217 kg, capable of flying 6 km.


The launch of missiles

For the purpose of unification, a new TZM was developed. It was carried out on the chassis of the T-72 tank, retaining the means of transportation and reloading of ammunition. In addition, the TZM received removable armored casings to protect missiles from external influences.

The TOS-2 Tosochka combat vehicle was actually developed from scratch and without using ready-made components from previous models. It is built on a three-axle Ural truck chassis with a protected cabin. A new smaller 18-rail launcher is used. A highly effective fire control system was also reassembled from modern components. Unlike its predecessors, TOS-2 does not require TZM. It has its own crane and can accept ammunition from any transport vehicle.

It is reported that Tosochka retains the ability to use MO.1.01.04(M) rockets. In addition, TBS-M3 ammunition has been developed for it. With the same dimensions, it flies at a range of up to 15 km and delivers an effective thermobaric charge to the target. Whether such a missile can be used by Solntsepek is unknown.

Development trends


It is easy to see how the family of domestic TOS developed, as well as how and for what reasons the appearance of these combat vehicles changed. As this line of equipment developed, promising and effective solutions were proposed and implemented, as well as compromises of various kinds. At the same time, the main goal and task has always been to improve the basic tactical and technical characteristics.


TOS-2 "Tosochka" at a firing position

TOS-1 and TOS-1A were built on tank chassis. This made it possible to obtain maximum maneuverability and protection. However, the use of such a base was partly a forced decision. The fact is that the first rocket of a specific design had a flight range of only 3,6 km, and the combat vehicle had to approach the target at a minimum distance, not always being able to choose a convenient position or approaches to it. At the same time, risks were expected, which had to be met with an increased level of protection.

The modernized Solntsepek with a projectile flying 6 km has become a more difficult target for return fire. At the same time, they preserved the tank chassis with all its features, and also better protected the guides with missiles. The latest TOS-2 project uses a projectile with a range of up to 15 km, dramatically reducing threats to the combat vehicle. Thanks to this, it was possible to get by with only bulletproof/fragmentation-proof armor.

The increased firing range also simplified the choice of position for combat work. At the same time, the requirements for cross-country ability dropped and it became possible to use a car chassis. In turn, such a base improved the overall mobility of the system and in a certain way simplified its production and operation.

An important area was the development of fire control systems. In each project, the management system was rebuilt using modern components that had the necessary functions and capabilities. Due to this, the accuracy of topographical reference, the speed of data calculations for firing at an increased range, etc. were increased. All this makes it possible to more fully use the potential of missiles, incl. having increased characteristics, as well as fire faster and escape from return fire.


TOS-2 calculation at work

In parallel with combat vehicles, rockets for them are being developed. Basically, measures were taken to increase the firing range. The first modernization of this kind led to an increase in this parameter by about one and a half times, and the newest TBS-M3 projectile flies twice as far as the product for Solntsepek and can already be compared with traditional MLRS missiles.

Apparently, not only the general design of the projectile and its engine were improved. New compositions of liquid warhead could be developed, giving increased power of a volumetric explosion, a larger radius of impact, etc. For obvious reasons, details of this kind remain unknown.

Practical results


Thus, as part of the overall development of the field of heavy flamethrower systems, the Russian defense industry is constantly working on several basic issues and offering new solutions of various kinds. Engineering problems are solved in the context of mobility, protection, parameters of the projectile itself and the systems responsible for its use. Moreover, such tasks often turn out to be interrelated, and the solution to one has a positive effect on the others.

Currently, the Russian army is armed with two heavy flamethrower systems – TOS-1A “Solntsepek” and TOS-2 “Tosochka”. They differ from each other in technical appearance, combat and operational characteristics, etc. Despite all the differences, they solve common problems and successfully complement each other in different situations. Perhaps, based on the experience of joint use of two different TOCs, new samples of this class will be developed in the future. And you can already imagine how they will differ from current machines and what advantages they will receive.
62 comments
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  1. +15
    23 November 2023 02: 52
    I once saw a video of a dog vomiting in a dugout from the use of sun protection. The explosion was quite far away, but apparently the pressure drops still reached them there. It turned him inside out there
    1. +4
      23 November 2023 04: 20
      On Tornado-S, thermobaric charges will not interfere. Then you can burn out supports and forest belts from 100 km away.
      1. +4
        23 November 2023 09: 58
        If in the past we sold such weapons to everyone, as stated in the article, then they can return to Ukraine against us, just as many other things have returned - tanks, guns, airplanes.
        But the question that hangs even more incomprehensible is why NATO (USA) does not supply similar weapons to Ukraine... or does it? If it is so effective in the current trench warfare, then it should be a priority for the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and ahead of tanks.
        I have been waiting for a long time for someone on the VO website to explain this riddle, why there are no such weapons on the other side... or is there and always has been?
        1. +1
          23 November 2023 13: 01
          It is enough to look in the same Wiki for the range of use + see the range of barrel artillery (well, and not only barrel artillery) + take into account the operational reconnaissance from the air of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. In general, add two and two and understand why the other side doesn’t need them, and why we don’t really use them either. And the use of this prodigy does not have any effect on the overall result of military operations
      2. +6
        23 November 2023 10: 44
        Quote: Bearded
        On Tornado-S, thermobaric charges will not interfere.

        And they exist - 9M55S.
        The ground forces have long been completely duplicating the chemical forces in terms of volumetric detonating ammunition.
        Even TOS-2 has long had an analogue - “Hurricane” with RS 9M51. The firing range is the same - up to 13 km.
        1. +4
          23 November 2023 12: 11
          These are not entirely equivalent systems. A tornado has a liquid explosive and there is a lot of it in a rocket; in an MLRS there is a solid explosive and there is less of it....the chemistry is different, it works differently.
      3. 0
        7 March 2024 23: 57
        There is 9M55S, it was also made for Smerch
  2. +10
    23 November 2023 03: 00
    Trends in the development of TOS can be expressed in accelerating the reloading process by using containers, increasing the range and accuracy of fire.
    In any case, amendments will be made by combat use and experience in combat operations.
    It’s great that Russia has such weapons.
    1. +5
      23 November 2023 08: 40
      ROSS, so I thought, how long does it take to reload, always feeding one projectile (rocket) at a time? After all, you can invent something to completely change the entire package. Let's lift one with a crane, and please open fire again. After all, Americans recharge their HIMARS with packets.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. -4
        23 November 2023 11: 00
        Wow, great job! I just don’t understand what you are doing in this “sandbox” of armchair experts. You should head the General Staff or at least the ACCU Directorate and outshine all the “Constellations” and “Andromedas”. Don’t hold back your talents, immediately move to the General Staff. I will order that a pass be issued in the name of Totvolk80, do not forget to take your shoulder straps with you to replace them with general ones. You deserve it!!! lol fellow
  3. +8
    23 November 2023 04: 37
    I wrote for almost a long time... My father commanded the Buratos division in Afghanistan... the Mujahideen feared them like fire... especially in the mountains, where shock waves interfere good
    Well, I had a chance to see it for myself in Komsomolskoye... the roar was so loud that my ears were ringing good
    1. +1
      23 November 2023 12: 13
      An ideal assault weapon when the enemy no longer has artillery. like the 240mm mortar.
      1. +4
        23 November 2023 13: 46
        Moreover, they get into their heaven in such a form that 40 or how many virgins there will disdain laughing
        ZY I saw it myself in Komsomolskov in March 2000, and I also have photos from my guys... soldier
  4. +1
    23 November 2023 05: 28
    Some kind of empty article. "Unknown, apparently, presumably" -. The author clearly knows more than he wrote. But in essence, these hints do not give anything. In addition, there are no comparative criteria with the technology of a potential enemy. And there is not a single line about the trends themselves as prospects for development.
    All this is very reminiscent of political information somewhere in a motorized rifle platoon.
  5. +5
    23 November 2023 05: 50
    If the TOS could still come up with a use, then the unarmored TOSOCHKA with a firing range of 15 km actually duplicates the Uragan system, which also uses missiles with a thermobaric warhead, also 220 mm in diameter, and launches them at about 13 km.
    1. +3
      23 November 2023 12: 15
      The effects of explosive ammunition vary in effectiveness. TOS is a highly specialized vehicle for assault assistance. And it is desirable that the enemy does not have artillery. Afghan, SAR - ideal.
      1. -1
        23 November 2023 16: 54
        Quote: Zaurbek
        The effects of explosive ammunition vary in effectiveness. TOS is a highly specialized vehicle for assault assistance. And it is desirable that the enemy does not have artillery. Afghan, SAR - ideal.

        Why is the effect of explosive ammunition different? In both cases, thermobaric warheads are used. What is the difference?
        1. +1
          24 November 2023 11: 40
          In one there is liquid explosive, in the other it is dry and the quantity is different
    2. +1
      23 November 2023 15: 50
      We simply develop ammunition for everything in a formulaic way: why was it necessary to increase the range to an MLRS for an actual assault gun that fires at visible targets? At what cost was this done? A decrease in power? Then maybe it made sense to leave the range as it was and increase the power? What are now perceived as the system’s disadvantages (short range, heavy platform) is actually its “niche” among the troops. This is not art, this is a modern ISU-152 or Sturmtiger. This also includes maximum simplicity and manufacturability of ammunition, devoid of adjustment/control - it is not needed for point-blank shooting (but at 15 km?). For some reason, land mines with an increased range are not being developed for tanks (although they are looking at wheeled chassis for their guns). By the way, a “close combat landmine” wouldn’t hurt for TOS.
    3. 0
      23 November 2023 19: 07
      Separate MLRS for the RKhBZ troops were apparently made with the purpose of preventing combat units from taking away the same hurricane/tornado from them for an unlimited time. Similarly, helicopters with mining systems are taken away from sappers, because those who are fighting need it more
      1. 0
        24 November 2023 09: 25
        In my opinion, the RKhBZ should mind its own business and not shoot flamethrowers.
        1. +1
          24 November 2023 21: 56
          So initially they had to burn out the contaminated area with flamethrowers. But the soldiers of the combat units saw how it played around and wanted the same thing. Zmey Gorynych also seems to be for sappers, but it turned out that this is not only for making passages in minefields
  6. -1
    23 November 2023 06: 47
    Quote: U-58
    In addition, there are no comparative criteria with the technology of a potential enemy.

    Exactly. It’s very interesting, what kind of things do the Amers have? And what is the real effectiveness of this wunder waffe, with confirmation?
  7. +5
    23 November 2023 08: 55
    The TOS needs a cassette warhead with anti-personnel weapons. Yes, with the same “Petal”. So that the last missile in the salvo would mine the affected area. Which will greatly complicate the enemy’s “rescue” efforts.
    I understand that it is bloodthirsty. But the reality, unfortunately, is that the enemy, by his behavior, earns such an attitude towards himself.
    1. +3
      23 November 2023 09: 46
      Quote: garri-lin
      The TOS needs a cassette warhead with anti-personnel weapons. Yes, with the same “Petal”. So that the last missile in the salvo would mine the affected area. Which will greatly complicate the enemy’s “rescue” efforts.
      I understand that it is bloodthirsty. But the reality, unfortunately, is that the enemy, by his behavior, earns such an attitude towards himself.

      The TOS is a specialized medium-range assault weapon. Why does he need Petal mines? For laying mines there is the Uragan MLRS, in the same caliber and specially designed for this. Why fence a garden if such a system already exists?
      1. 0
        23 November 2023 09: 54
        I clearly wrote why. So that the freshly burned territory is strewn with mines. One missile per salvo.
        1. +4
          23 November 2023 11: 00
          Quote: garri-lin
          I clearly wrote why. So that the freshly burned territory is strewn with mines. One missile per salvo.

          And the mines flying down will be destroyed when the OD warhead is detonated.

          Tell me, why do you need a new cassette PC for TOS-2? What if exactly the same volume-detonating and cassette-type “petal” RS have long been in the BC of the old “Hurricane” - 9M51 and 9M27K3? The Hurricane even has an incendiary RS - 9M27S.
          1. +2
            23 November 2023 13: 56
            Delay the launch of the last rocket for 5-7 seconds and the shock wave will have time to subside. And the mines will fall calmly.
            The hurricane is "farther away" in submission. And the TOSs seem to be “closer”. And their use is more flexible.
            It's always nice to make life difficult for your opponent. And anti-infantry weapons scattered across positions where you need to see if anyone is alive and provide assistance will complicate life quite a lot.
            Pair Hurricane with Tosochka for the sake of a couple of missiles? For what?
            1. 0
              23 November 2023 16: 57
              Quote: garri-lin
              Delay the launch of the last rocket for 5-7 seconds and the shock wave will have time to subside. And the mines will fall calmly.
              The hurricane is "farther away" in submission. And the TOSs seem to be “closer”. And their use is more flexible.
              It's always nice to make life difficult for your opponent. And anti-infantry weapons scattered across positions where you need to see if anyone is alive and provide assistance will complicate life quite a lot.
              Pair Hurricane with Tosochka for the sake of a couple of missiles? For what?

              TOSs may be closer, but how many are there? According to the staff, there should be 36 (thirty-six) of them in the Russian army. Do they often occur on a 1000 km front? With such a density, they would be able to cope with their tasks, and not replace the RZSO artillery.
              1. +1
                23 November 2023 17: 03
                And when did they start replacing MLRS??? Yes, and you are categorical with quantity. Where does the information come from????
                1. 0
                  24 November 2023 00: 04
                  Quote: garri-lin
                  And when did they start replacing MLRS??? Yes, and you are categorical with quantity. Where does the information come from????

                  When their firing range became like that of the RZSO.
                  Well, with quantity it’s even easier. CBT according to the state is assigned to teams of “chemists”, of which there are already 3 in our country. And each such brigade has 9 of these flamethrower systems. Plus 3 more pieces in three separate RCBZ battalions. This is, of course, before Shoigu’s latest reforms, but it is unlikely that these reforms were quickly put into practice.
                  1. -2
                    24 November 2023 09: 18
                    So the numbers are out of thin air????
            2. +1
              24 November 2023 11: 14
              Quote: garri-lin
              The hurricane is "farther away" in submission. And the TOSs seem to be “closer”.

              Exactly the opposite. Hurricanes for infantry are “their” artillery, interaction with which is at least well established. And TOS are assigned chemists. Which the infantry sees on major holidays.
              Quote: garri-lin

              Pair Hurricane with Tosochka for the sake of a couple of missiles? For what?

              No. Throw out the TOSochka (and departmental artillery in general) and give it to the RS, since they are so unique, as an ordinary read.
        2. +1
          23 November 2023 12: 17
          There are a lot of weapons for setting up mie - a bunch of vehicles, including aircraft and 155mm shells. The TOS themselves are specialized vehicles, there are dozens of them in the army... and there are two types of ammunition - a lighter (flamethrower) and OD.
          1. -1
            23 November 2023 14: 39
            I'm not talking about specialized use in mining. I'm talking about one missile per package to make rescue efforts more difficult for the enemy.
            What is a TOS rocket???? Essentially an ampoule with liquid. Placing a cassette with anti-personnel protection from the same hurricane there takes two weeks for a normal design bureau.
            What Pinocchio was created for and how this technique is used now are very different things. Now these are assault weapons. And that means they should cause maximum damage and their impact should be as long as possible.
            The oprnik created by TOS and strewn with mines will not soon become an oprnik again.
            1. -1
              24 November 2023 00: 18
              Quote: garri-lin
              I'm not talking about specialized use in mining. I'm talking about one missile per package to make rescue efforts more difficult for the enemy.
              What is a TOS rocket???? Essentially an ampoule with liquid. Placing a cassette with anti-personnel protection from the same hurricane there takes two weeks for a normal design bureau.
              What Pinocchio was created for and how this technique is used now are very different things. Now these are assault weapons. And that means they should cause maximum damage and their impact should be as long as possible.
              The oprnik created by TOS and strewn with mines will not soon become an oprnik again.

              The TOS has the only advantage over classic RZSOs that it is theoretically capable of operating at close range. And if in the case of using volumetric detonating ammunition this is at least somehow reasonable, then why drag such a colossus to the front to cover everything with petals is a mystery. TOS should be abandoned altogether, and the work of thermobaric and cluster munitions should be entrusted to the Hurricanes, which can do this from a greater distance without being exposed to danger. But the Defense Ministry does not like this, and it stubbornly drags “unparalleled in the world” systems to the front line where they suffer unreasonably high losses.
              1. -1
                24 November 2023 09: 20
                Stubbornness is a bad assistant in discussion. You resemble modern generals. And sorry, that wasn't a compliment.
              2. 0
                24 November 2023 11: 21
                Quote from Escariot
                The TOS has the only advantage over classic RZSOs that it is theoretically capable of operating at close range.

                This is only TOS-1 - an assault flamethrower. He is the only one who can be left to the chemical troops - because of the extremely specific tactics of use, which ordinary line commanders will simply forget about (it will be like in the Second World War, when they tried to use assault self-propelled guns as tanks).
                TOS-2 is artillery. And professionals should work with it, fortunately they already have experience with “artillery” thermal bars. That is, either give the new extended-range TB RS to the readn on the Hurricanes, or make the TOS-2 a standard readn vehicle capable of using the entire range of RS.
                Quote from Escariot
                TOS should be abandoned altogether, and the work of thermobaric and cluster munitions should be entrusted to the Hurricanes, which can do this from a greater distance without being exposed to danger.

                From a greater distance, the Hurricanes will not be able to: the range of the 9M51 is exactly the same as that of the TOS-2 RS - up to 13 km.
    2. +1
      23 November 2023 10: 48
      Quote: garri-lin
      The TOS needs a cassette warhead with anti-personnel weapons.

      TOS-2 is not needed. Not needed at all. This is another departmental toy for the chemical forces, which has long had its counterpart in conventional artillery.
      The only unique chemical warfare complex is TOS-1.
      1. +3
        23 November 2023 12: 19
        Auto chassis is cheaper. CBT - there will never be too much. The direct competitor is aviation with ODAB ammunition.
      2. 0
        23 November 2023 14: 26
        Everyone wants “their” toys.
        Likewise, Agriculture duplicates Hail.
  8. +3
    23 November 2023 10: 53
    In general, the trend in the development of heavy flamethrower systems for chemical warfare forces led them to a foreign clearing. The increase in range turned the TOS into an analogue of the MLRS that have long existed in artillery. For which thermobaric shells have also been available for a long time.
    As a result, we have two systems that duplicate each other, one of which also has a much wider range of ammunition and proven OCs for its use.
    The question arises - is TOS-2 necessary? What if Uragan solves exactly the same problems?
    1. +3
      23 November 2023 14: 22
      The question is legitimate.
      TOS-2 is needed, Hurricane is not needed.
      Hail, in its current form, is also not needed, it has been written about this a hundred times - you give a new projectile, possibly unified with Agriculture.
      1. +2
        23 November 2023 17: 01
        Quote: Arigin
        The question is legitimate.
        TOS-2 is needed, Hurricane is not needed.
        Hail, in its current form, is also not needed, it has been written about this a hundred times - you give a new projectile, possibly unified with Agriculture.

        For the Hurricane there are already thermobaric and fragmentation and cluster shells. For every taste. For TOSochka all this is missing. What then is its advantage?
        For hail there are fragmentation, incendiary and mine shells, but Agriculture only has mine shells. What is the advantage of Agriculture over Hail?
        MO has produced duplicate entities, and now it doesn’t know what to do with them.
      2. -1
        24 November 2023 11: 26
        Quote: Arigin
        TOS-2 is needed, Hurricane is not needed.

        PMSM, we need TOS-2, which has the ability to operate with all types of Uragan RS. And this system should go into artillery, replacing the old "Hurricanes" in readiness. And chemists will still have TOS-1.
        1. -3
          24 November 2023 12: 48
          Why TOS 2 in artillery??? If she duplicates Hurricane. There are a lot of them, but Tosochka still needs to be made and an assortment of RSs for it needs to be made. It’s easier for Hurricane to “straighten his brains” to increase his capabilities.
          Let them play with Tosochka among the troops and for sale, of course.
          1. +1
            24 November 2023 18: 49
            Quote: garri-lin
            Why TOS 2 in artillery???

            As a new single launcher for the 220 mm RS. Instead of the 30-year-old Hurricanes with their unique chassis from a now defunct plant.
            1. 0
              25 November 2023 11: 56
              Is Tobish a full-fledged replacement for Hurricane with a view to decades of operation?
              Well I do not know. The chassis of the Hurricane Shiuka is of course unique, but I think this is a huge plus. Tosochka does not look so passable from the outside. It looks like parquet. And its barrels/guides are shorter. The Hurricane has a range of 35 kilometers. Can Tosochka do this???? I think no.
              TOS1/1A assault weapon for high intensity conflicts.
              TOC 2 for low intensity conflicts and for sale.
              MLRS is MLRS.
        2. 0
          25 November 2023 18: 15
          I see the situation this way: all of the Hurricane unguided projectiles are outdated due to their short range, but of all of them, the thermobaric (at 13 km) is the most useful, so they made a similar projectile for the TOS-2, which differs favorably from the Hurricane itself at least in that capable of charging itself. For this, the hurricane also needs TZM. And transporting Uragan shells also requires TZM. and for TOS, I think, you can transport shells with ordinary trucks. In short, both Grad and Hurricane belong in a museum, and the real work should be transferred to new systems.
          1. 0
            25 November 2023 20: 15
            Why is a range of 35 km short for you??? On the enemy's near rear, from their own near rear, it is the one. Or along the front. Hurricane is a good system. And his PCs are quite up to par. And the range is wide.
            But Tosochka still doesn’t understand what, and I repeat, you can somehow substantiate the opinion that she will be able to shoot at 35 kilometers. But you consider this range insufficient.
            1. 0
              26 November 2023 00: 30
              Of course, Tosochka can’t do 35, but she doesn’t need it. Hurricane can hit 35 (probably further), but this is of little use - the enemy simply will not crowd in the firing zone. Now, if there was a range of 100 km, then the very fact of the presence of such a threat would make us think about how to deploy troops, warehouses, form columns, etc.
              For now we have what we have.
              1. 0
                26 November 2023 19: 52
                The enemy usually clusters much closer than 35 km from the LBS. And the ammunition, although dispersed, is stored much closer than 35 km. And that’s why Hurricane is so popular in the Northern Military District.
    2. 0
      April 22 2024 01: 13
      in the same numbers, clearly not, as you well say. but in much bigger numbers, much cheaper and easy to train and repair, clearing 3 towns per week? maybe. hurricanes impress me more, so they need all possible assistance and protection. in fact, i would even bring back scuds (even on improvised launchers), lunas and frogs to release them of some duties or unnecessary risks.
      1. 0
        April 22 2024 01: 17
        answer to "tos aren't needed, only hurricanes are"
  9. +2
    23 November 2023 14: 39
    My deep couch opinion.
    1. Each tank battalion must have its own MLRS battery on a tank chassis. This weapon destroys tank-dangerous targets too well.
    2. These systems must be developed in terms of firing range and charge power.
    3. I consider it necessary to create a UAV (possibly a kamikaze) with such a missile/charge, which has a guidance system.
    1. 0
      23 November 2023 17: 06
      Quote: Saboteur
      My deep couch opinion.
      1. Each tank battalion must have its own MLRS battery on a tank chassis. This weapon destroys tank-dangerous targets too well.
      2. These systems must be developed in terms of firing range and charge power.
      3. I consider it necessary to create a UAV (possibly a kamikaze) with such a missile/charge, which has a guidance system.

      RZSO on a tank is not needed at all. The only really necessary moment in which it may be needed is a deep tank breakthrough, in which it is necessary to drag the RZSO off-road after these tanks. Something like this is not happening anytime soon.
      And the longer the range of the RZSO missile, the less a tank chassis is needed.
      And missiles with UAVs already exist, but there are very few of them.
      1. +1
        24 November 2023 09: 22
        UAVs with such a charge exist, which is good. But I haven't heard about it((.
        The farther from the LBS, the simpler the chassis, as I know.
        On a tank chassis he suggested that tankers have their own support.
        I meant that it would probably be good if the tank crews, motorized rifle divisions and UAVs had their own weapons.
        And not just some super installation.
      2. -3
        24 November 2023 12: 52
        Why use MLRS in a deep tank breakthrough? Who will organize target designation for him at MLRS operating ranges? Where to get ammunition from?
        And most importantly, what will be the targets behind enemy lines that tanks will not be able to handle, but MLRS will be able to?
  10. 0
    25 November 2023 20: 20
    Why can’t the shells of all these Soltsepeks be fired from conventional MLRS? - And why can’t the RS MLRS be equipped with OS warheads?
    1. +1
      25 November 2023 23: 56
      In the RS MLRS, the warhead is on average 10-20 percent of the mass of the shot.
      For TOS, 2/3 of the shot is a warhead. The price for this is range. But the power is many times higher than that of long-range systems.
      Different purposes.
  11. 0
    17 January 2024 20: 26
    Of course, I understand that there will be no development, but a stupid increase in the weight of missiles and launchers.
    .
    The real development is completely different, but will the current designers and colonels from the Ministry of Defense even spend a penny “on the side”?
  12. 0
    18 January 2024 10: 34
    What is surprising is that these heavy flamethrower systems were used repeatedly against the Ukrainian Armed Forces fighters located in Krynki. In theory, if, as this weapon is announced, the explosive mixture penetrates into all the cracks and explodes, creating a sharp pressure drop, no one should be left alive there. However, no, they stayed and have been holding a bridgehead for a long time. So, how should we understand this? Or are these Sunburners not so effective or did they strike over too limited an area, not over the entire bridgehead? And if the latter is true, then why is that so?