Ten years - and no boat!

90
Ten years - and no boat!

interesting news. The Main Headquarters of the Russian Navy proposed not to restore the nuclear submarine K-152 "Nerpa" of Project 971U ("Pike-B"), which returned from India, where it was leased.

This is what happened: the K-152 “Nerpa” boat was leased to the Indian Navy on January 23.01.2012, XNUMX. In Indian navy served under the name S 72 Chakra-2, and 10 months before the end of the lease it was returned to Russia.



In general, leasing is essentially a lease with or without the right to buy. Basically, in the world this means rent with subsequent purchase, but in our version this did not happen.

The cause was an emergency that occurred in April 2020, when a high-pressure air cylinder exploded on board the submarine. Both hulls of the boat were damaged, and sonar and radio-electronic equipment were also damaged.


After this, the Indian side returned the boat from rent ahead of schedule. 10 months ahead of schedule, paying almost $2 billion in fees.

However, there is information that before returning the boat, Indian specialists carried out repairs on both hulls. After that, in 2021, “Nerpa” on the surface and accompanied by ships of the Pacific Fleet came to Vladivostok.


And now the Navy Commander-in-Chief, for financial reasons, considers the repair and modernization of the Nerpa inappropriate.

What does this indicate?

Some respected experts in this field have started talking about the fact that the Russian Navy is experiencing serious problems with the repair of the Project 971 nuclear submarine. If this were exactly the case, then the refusal to repair the Nerpa would be objectively justified.

However, statistics on the repair and modernization of Project 971 nuclear submarines indicate the opposite.

K-419 "Kuzbass". Pacific Fleet Renovated at the Zvezda plant from 2009 to 2016. Replacement and modernization of life support systems, radio and hydroacoustic equipment.

K-317 "Panther". SF. She underwent a major overhaul from 2006 to 2009 at the Nerpa Shipyard. Replacement of batteries, hydroacoustic complex, modernization of control and communication systems.

K-157 "Vepr". SF. Renovated in 2018-2020.

K-335 "Cheetah". SF. Renovated in 2014-2015.


At the same time, nuclear submarines of Project 971 of both the Pacific and Northern fleets are currently undergoing repairs of varying complexity at the factories.


K-331 "Magadan". Pacific Fleet Since 2015, under renovation and modernization for the leasing program for India. After the transfer (if one takes place), the name “Magadan” will be transferred to another boat.

K-295 "Samara". Pacific Fleet Since 2015, it has been undergoing repairs at the Zvezdochka plant.

K-461 "Wolf". SF. Since 2014, it has been undergoing medium repairs and modernization at the Zvezdochka shipyard. Delivery is delayed (2017).

K-154 "Tiger". SF. Since 2019, repairs and modernization have been carried out at the Nerpa shipyard.

K-328 "Leopard". SF. Since the end of June 2011, it has been at the Zvezdochka Center undergoing repairs and re-equipment. In December 2020, it was launched after repairs and modernization. Delivery (2020) is delayed.

In general, it turns out that out of the 10 boats remaining in stock, 4 boats are in service and 5 are under repair. “Nerpa” seems to be suspended.

You may get the wrong impression that things are really very bad with the repair of THESE submarines. But let’s be objective: what are we generally good at today? In which place in which industry?

Problems are absolutely everywhere and in everything, starting from personnel, which is the main problem in the country. “Effective managers” in the management of companies, who have no idea what the companies are doing and the remnants of Soviet personnel in production, whom no one is in a hurry to change. Unfortunately, it is not prestigious to be a worker today. Thanks to years of advertising on TV and the Internet.

The fact that Zvezdochka in general and Nerpa as a branch in particular cope with the repair of such complex devices as nuclear submarines is generally at the level of a labor feat.


It is possible and necessary to talk about problems at ship repair yards, but we will not do this within the scope of this article. It is enough to understand that our factories are still able to cope with such tasks as repairing nuclear submarines, although the deadlines for completing the work look daunting. But, I repeat, this is not the factories’ fault. The boats have been repaired and will continue to be repaired. The only question is how it will look in terms of the time factor.

Now we go further.

The phrase flashed in some media that the fleet has no money. This is exactly how they explained the phrase “The Main Command of the Navy, for financial reasons, considers the repair and modernization of the Nerpa inappropriate.”

However, there is a presence of the second side of the coin. “The fleet does not have money for repairs” and “The fleet does not have THAT kind of money for repairs” are similar phrases, but the meaning is completely different.

Let's take another look at the chronology of events:
- there is an emergency on the boat;
- the boat is being repaired by Indian specialists;
- the boat is returned to the lessor ahead of schedule, before the appointed time, refusing to repurchase;
- the boat has been at the shipyard for two years;
- The High Command of the Navy considers it inappropriate to repair the boat.

What can you see here? Yes, in principle, everything is simple: the Indians understood perfectly well that by allowing such an accident, they had practically disfigured the boat to the point of inoperability. Therefore, having somehow patched up the “Nerpa”/“Chakra”, the Indians hastened to return it to Russia.

The way the boat sailed to Vladivostok already indicated that not all was well on it. Otherwise, why send an entire detachment of two tugs, a rescue vessel and a tanker after her? It's simple: there were doubts that the boat would get there on its own.

After the Nerpa was safely dragged to Vladivostok, an analysis of what the Indians had done began. The fact that their shipbuilders patched up the main and light hulls does not make the boat combat-ready.

Is almost two years to carry out troubleshooting a lot? Considering what a complex system it is, a nuclear submarine, no, not much. And obviously, the amount of restoration of the boat exceeded all calculations, and quite significantly.


Here we must understand that the decision was not made in a hurry. The boat is not that old, quite the opposite. Yes, the K-152 “Nerpa” was laid down back in 1993, but it was launched on June 24, 2006, and put into operation on December 29, 2009.

It is clear that the fate of the boat was not decided in a couple of hours of debate. Just taking and scrapping a boat that is not even twenty years old is an unforgivable waste. Apparently, the Indians mutilated the Nerpa so badly that, indeed, its restoration may be impractical. It is also quite possible that it is easier and cheaper to build a new boat than to repair the Nerpa to condition.

It is not for nothing that since the return of the Nerpa, it has been laid up at the Zvezda shipyard in Bolshoy Kamen; in April 2022, nuclear fuel was unloaded on the boat. Perhaps, indeed, the boat has already been sentenced.

But here’s another reason for thought.

In March 2019, another Russian-Indian agreement was signed in New Delhi on the long-term lease of another Project 971 nuclear attack submarine from the Russian Navy to India, with the cost of the agreement estimated at $3,3 billion.

The boat under the Indian designation “Chakra III” will be transferred after repairs and modernization and will join the Indian fleet presumably in 2025 under the same name “Chakra” as two other nuclear submarines leased from the USSR and Russia. The lease term is not known exactly, but will be at least 10 years.

Apparently, the Indian nuclear submarines of the Arihant type, on which the command of the Indian fleet is relying, cannot be fully operational for some reasons unknown to us. And this is pushing India into the arms of Russia in terms of leasing Russian nuclear submarines. Yes, for decent money, but...

Of course, 3 billion 300 million dollars is a hefty figure. But here’s a question of no less importance: will the former “Magadan” also return from India in tow and be scrapped, like the “Nerpa”?

If we really have problems with factories, is it worth throwing away nuclear boats like that? Yes, “Magadan” is almost 20 years older than “Nerpa”, but still. This is a boat that can serve Russia. Of course, earning foreign currency in such quantities is also a service, but the question is: who needs it more?

In general, the situation is ambiguous and requires additional information. But in general, it’s a shame that a nuclear submarine, having served for 14 years, will be scrapped because of crooked Indian sailors. Dollars, of course, are good, but combat-ready boats are much better. And with us it’s not that it’s amazing, but rather quite the opposite.
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  1. +20
    22 November 2023 03: 46
    Someone has very decent money from decommissioning and dismantling Russian nuclear submarines
    1. +44
      22 November 2023 06: 16
      If the leadership of our country had a goal of developing the country, then it would have put in command of the fleet people capable of building a combat-ready fleet, and then there would have been no questions about the Nerpa at all, it would have simply been restored and long ago would have been completed, standing on the stocks in Komsomolsk-on-Amur with 90s boat of a similar project.
      But the country’s leadership just can’t get enough and the same locusts are in charge of the fleet, and their chewing and swallowing reflexes tell them that they will earn much more by cutting the Nerpa nuclear submarine into metal than by repairing it. And they won’t earn anything from completing the construction of another Shchuka-B nuclear submarine, so they’re in no hurry to do anything, they’re waiting for them to cut it apart.
      1. -6
        22 November 2023 13: 54
        Quote: ramzay21
        If the leadership of our country had a goal of developing the country, then it would have put in command of the fleet people capable of building a combat-ready fleet, and then there would have been no questions about the Nerpa at all, it would have simply been restored and long ago would have been completed, standing on the stocks in Komsomolsk-on-Amur with 90s boat of a similar project.
        But the country’s leadership just can’t get enough and the same locusts are in charge of the fleet, and their chewing and swallowing reflexes tell them that they will earn much more by cutting the Nerpa nuclear submarine into metal than by repairing it. And they won’t earn anything from completing the construction of another Shchuka-B nuclear submarine, so they’re in no hurry to do anything, they’re waiting for them to cut it apart.

        Everything is much simpler. Now projects that are needed directly for our own are financed, the rest are financed on a residual basis. There is not enough money.
      2. +1
        20 December 2023 07: 07
        If the leadership of our country had a goal of developing the country, then it would have put in command of the fleet people capable of building a combat-ready fleet (c). If the leadership of “our” country had a goal of developing the country, then it would have been a different leadership.
    2. +39
      22 November 2023 06: 36
      What is the price of a NEW boat?
      During the lease period, this nuclear submarine brought in $2 billion.
      This is potentially enough to build several.

      For example:
      Project 885 Yasen submarines (885M Yasen-M) are a series of Russian multipurpose nuclear submarines with 4th generation cruise missiles. K-560 — 50 billion rubles. K-561 — 47 billion rubles.
      That is about half a billion dollars. You can use the proceeds from rent to build 4 new ones. Yes, the data is given for another project, even more modern. There will be upward price adjustments due to inflation, exchange rates, yes, of course...

      The question is: if repairs, which will take a long time, including due to the order of modernization of other submarines, will cost a significant amount, then wouldn’t it be easier to spend it on spare parts to speed up the repair of other boats in the series? And at the same time laying down a few new ones...
      1. +16
        22 November 2023 06: 54
        1. No one is going to sell nuclear submarines to India; ours are always given either for rent or lease with subsequent return.
        2. The seal, according to media reports, has been driven all these 10 years, both tail and mane, without carrying out the required maintenance.
        1. +5
          22 November 2023 14: 13
          I have already written in the past that it is necessary to know exactly the cause of the accident with the explosion of the VVD cylinder, with such damage to the boat. If this is a manufacturing defect, then all claims are against the manufacturer. It’s another matter if the crew had a collision with another ship, which resulted in damage to the cylinder, which after some time did not explode immediately... Could the Indians have hidden such a collision from our supervisors on shore, who were required to monitor the operation of the boat during the entire period her rent? It is hardly possible to hide a collision with another ship, but to run into something yourself, so much so as to hit a cylinder that will never be placed on the hull in a potentially dangerous place in the event of a collision, is even more incredible.
          So it turns out that the most likely reason is a factory defect and they did not make any claims against the Indians.
          1. +3
            22 November 2023 19: 04
            The VVD cylinders are located between a light and durable hull in such a way that they can be damaged in a collision in an underwater position, which is difficult to imagine, except perhaps when surfacing against a surface obstacle (a vehicle, a seiner or a warship). Considering the naval practice of mortifying all incidents so that no one is guilty or a criminal, everything is covered by force majeure or force majeure. The Indians here are just as clever explainers. Our observers on the shore cannot see or know everything, or even worse...
            1. 0
              23 November 2023 10: 17
              Georgy K-219 (Georgy), thank you for your participation. Of course, I cannot judge about all types of boats and this “Chakra” in particular, in what (specific) place the VVD cylinders are located. I know very well that they are between the hulls from my rich experience with almost a year of repairs and modernization of the boat in Dalzavod. Where I had a chance to personally see and paint the inside of the Central City Hospital and the inter-hull spaces with red lead and ethinol. I remembered that the VVD cylinders were located in such a way that a simple collision of the sides of the boat with a pier or another ship would not affect these cylinders located above the waterline. It seems to me that with any external damage to the cylinder, the explosive shock wave will go towards the hole and will have less impact on the durable hull. But if there was a manufacturing defect on the cylinder and it jerked towards the PC, this is where the nature of the damage occurs. about which they write. I can’t imagine how a VVD cylinder with 400 kg/cm* explodes, but I know how a battery explodes in a battery pit with one and a half hundred cells. I had a chance to experience this on my boat at the factory pier.
              Georgy, you have an interesting nickname with K-219, is it somehow connected with your involvement in the nuclear submarine K-219?
          2. 0
            23 November 2023 16: 51
            She sank during testing, was installed and repaired with Indian money,
        2. -1
          27 November 2023 06: 00
          Why the hell then rent it out, knowing that you will get rubbish back? And even disposal costs a lot of money. It's better to sell and let them sort it out themselves. Or they contact us for some money.
      2. +7
        22 November 2023 07: 45
        Quote: RealPilot
        What is the price of a NEW boat?

        Previously it was about a billion dollars. Now two are possible.

        Indeed, the rental from the Indians is such that it covers the cost of the boat itself (in my opinion). And if so, then such rentals (even with damage to the boats) are completely justified.
      3. +8
        22 November 2023 08: 15
        The arithmetic is a little wrong, the fact that the RF Ministry of Defense managed to sell USC at the price is generally not bad, but as a result USC is in a pre-bankruptcy state. Nuclear submarines are not worth half a billion, at least 2 times more.
      4. +18
        22 November 2023 08: 18
        Quote: RealPilot
        That is about half a billion dollars

        This is incorrect, since you take the price in rubles, which was quoted 12 years ago, and take today’s dollar exchange rate. And then it was about 30 rubles, that is, K-561 pulled out approximately 1,56 billion dollars. But there are many nuances here; in fact, it could actually be more expensive.
      5. +1
        22 November 2023 17: 00
        Quote: RealPilot
        What is the price of a NEW boat?

        Previously it was about a billion dollars. Now two are possible.
        But don't forget the cost of disposal. hi
      6. +10
        26 November 2023 15: 11
        Quote: RealPilot
        What is the price of a NEW boat?

        Quote: RealPilot
        Project 885 Yasen submarines (885M Yasen-M) are a series of Russian multipurpose nuclear submarines with 4th generation cruise missiles. K-560 — 50 billion rubles. K-561 — 47 billion rubles.

        Let's better convert the cost of our submarines into dollars, because comparing ruble price tags over different times is... not clear. And the price in dollars remains approximately at the same level.
        So the SSBN project "Borey-A" costs about 500 - 550 million dollars. The latter is less than 500 million, somewhere around 489 million dollars. That is, the price drops somewhat during the construction of the series. Let's remember this.
        The cost of the serial Yasen-M is approximately 1,2 billion dollars. This is much more expensive than the cost of the huge Borey-A - more than 2 times. It's strange, but it's true.
        Quote: RealPilot
        You can use the proceeds from rent to build 4 new ones.

        Indeed, for 2 billion rent, you can build 4 “Borey-A” or one “Yasen-M” and one “Borey-A” + funds for arming them.
        It follows that by 3,3 billion dollars. you can build SIX "Boreev-A" or almost three "Ash-M". So the game is worth the candle when for the rental of one old MAPL you can build an entire division of SSBNs. If only they would use at least part of these funds to modernize our ship repair plants, which did not wait 20 years for submarine repairs.
        But while we have on the slipway at the Amur Shipyard "Pike-B" in 70% readiness...UNPAID by the state...for which the state DOES NOT WANT to pay, and does not want to complete the construction of the MAPL, which is urgently needed by the Fleet...psychophysical, moral -ethical and fool intellectual state of power... request questionable .
        And you have to do something about it.
  2. +5
    22 November 2023 03: 48
    They are probably afraid to present it to India, so as not to lose the buyer and the tenant?
    1. AAK
      +5
      22 November 2023 10: 21
      And since Soviet times, for some reason, our leadership has constantly played the role of a kind of “Greenpeace” for basically free assistance to all sorts of monkeys, here only with the money “forgiven” by the Greatest it was possible to build a fleet at least as good as the Chinese one, or even better, but no matter where you look, there are appointed “edimrossians” everywhere, whether in officials or in “Pinocchio”, and they can’t get drunk, hence the situation - like the ruins of an architectural monument behind a beautiful screen stretched on posts, in general, everything is as per the saying - “...and where ours did not disappear, ours, however, disappeared everywhere!...” It’s a pity, but lately there have been too few serious analytical materials of a debatable or critical nature on VO... one can see such a time...
      1. +5
        22 November 2023 12: 24
        Quote: AAK
        And for some reason, since Soviet times, our leadership has constantly played the role of a sort of “Greenpeace” for mostly free assistance to all sorts of monkeys,

        Is two billion dollars now gratuitous aid?
        1. AAK
          +1
          22 November 2023 15: 51
          And you, colleague, balance the balance, two lard is an asset, and 150-180 lard is a dull unreturned liability...
      2. -11
        22 November 2023 18: 52
        Why do we need such a large fleet? What is his task, to show the flag in peacetime?
        1. +1
          27 November 2023 06: 11
          The question needs to be asked more broadly: why do we need a fleet at all? In those times of peace. If there is a war, then we will build it.
    2. +6
      22 November 2023 12: 20
      Quote from Evgeny
      They are probably afraid to present it to India, so as not to lose the buyer and the tenant?

      How can I say... Strictly speaking, it turns out as follows. We built a boat and could have sold it to India - for $2 billion we would have made a good profit. Not the worst deal in economic terms (whether it was worth giving the PAYMENT to the Indians or whether it would have been better to transfer it to our Navy is a separate topic). Instead, we rented it out and got the same profit + the boat back. Is it good or bad? Depends on the cost of its repair or disposal. It’s quite difficult to present something to India here, because the price tag for rent is initially outrageous.
      1. +2
        22 November 2023 17: 11
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Strictly speaking, the following results. We built a boat and could have sold it to India - for $2 billion we would have made a good profit. Not the worst deal in economic terms

        How much more would you get for recycling? That is why it is called mutually beneficial cooperation. Although the leasing agreement needs to be finalized, in terms of familiarizing representatives of other countries with the military facility. hi
  3. +8
    22 November 2023 04: 23
    We now have ONE maple in service at the Pacific Fleet, apparently we can afford the dancers to break the boats.......Bollywood, no less.
  4. +8
    22 November 2023 04: 41
    The novel used neurolinguistic, semantic analysis of the sayings of journalists, which were somehow gleaned from the High Command of the Navy ... but I think such an analysis is ineffective, a primary source is needed. Our top officials in the Government manage to put such phrases (blizzard) of the Russian language into a sentence that you are amazed at their resourcefulness. Nevertheless, my respect to the author is for such an approach, an attempt to somehow capture the mood and logic.

    On this topic. The crookedness of the Indians may require fixation. The withdrawal and disposal of the boat records this fact. Accordingly, during negotiations an argument is presented - to increase the cost of the new lease. This argument is not very consistent with the topic of our defense capability, but it is consistent with the “competencies” found in ROE (effective managers, military economists).

    We can only hope that the cost of the new lease to 971 Indians will be support specifically for the Russian Navy, in terms of the construction and repair of current fleet units, and not for another budget optimization: I recall the purchase of the private bank SMP - the state bank PSB.
  5. +7
    22 November 2023 05: 48
    In March 2019, another Russian-Indian agreement was signed in New Delhi on the long-term lease of another Project 971 nuclear attack submarine from the Russian Navy to India, with the cost of the agreement estimated at $3,3 billion.

    In addition, it would be a good idea to suggest and insist that India insure this boat at its own expense in case of damage by the Indian crew.
    The amount of insurance is equal to the cost of the boat. If you don't break the boat, you won't have to pay. If you break it, you'll pay, so use it carefully.
    1. +2
      22 November 2023 06: 59
      Quote: Comrade
      In addition, it would be a good idea to suggest and insist that India insure this boat at its own expense

      Well, you issued a “mountain” to insure a submarine or a cruiser. Where is such an insurance company?
  6. +4
    22 November 2023 05: 57
    and the cost of the agreement is estimated at $3,3 billion
    It’s good that it’s not in rupees. India doesn’t really sell its goods for rupees.
    1. +1
      22 November 2023 07: 59
      Quote: parusnik
      Good thing it's not in rupees

      They hadn’t thought of this yet. A sharp flight of thoughts occurred after the sanctions shocks.
      We decided to give up the dollar - sell for rubles! Why for rupees?

      That’s how they started to practice it: selling hydrocarbons for rubles, which importers (or exporters for them) were forced to take on the Moscow Exchange. But the ambush for our oligarchs and officials is that the ruble has strengthened to 55 per dollar! And it was necessary to urgently do something about it.

      (For reference, Indians would not buy anything on the Moscow Exchange for rupees, even if the rupee was traded there. There would not be enough liquidity!)
      1. +3
        22 November 2023 10: 56
        Indians would not buy anything on the Moscow Exchange for rupees

        The problem is not with the Hindus (or Indians? It doesn’t matter in this case), they are just happy with everything.
        According to the agreement, Indian firms paid with Russian rupees, but now they cannot be spent; neither India nor other countries sell anything (or almost nothing) for rupees, and the rupees are stuck in Russian firms as dead weight. The rupee is an inconvertible currency and cannot be easily sold.
  7. +10
    22 November 2023 06: 15
    Was all the equipment returned as part of the nuclear submarine, maybe something was lost during the “accident” or was hopelessly damaged before.. during the American “excursion”?
    I don’t believe in the crookedness or stupidity of the Indians, but I do believe in the growing partnership with the Anglo-Saxons.
    This is such a conspiracy theory.
    1. +1
      23 November 2023 20: 26
      It’s hard to believe in stupidity; they are very, very smart. But as a person who has been to India, I easily believe in crookedness. Yes, but is it only in India? In recent years, the Americans and French managed to burn down their nuclear submarines on the shore; I think it is unnecessary to remind about the tradition of the Russian fleet to lose ships in peacetime.
  8. +7
    22 November 2023 06: 15
    This boat is "unlucky". Even during acceptance tests in 2008, 20 people died on it. Then a serious accident in India.
    Sailors are superstitious people.
    1. +3
      22 November 2023 08: 11
      The LOH fire extinguishing system was activated, and 2 sailors and 18 civilian specialists were killed.
      1. +6
        22 November 2023 10: 59
        It would be more correct to say that the system of carelessness was at work.
        The sailor pressed the button out of boredom; before that, the LOX was filled with a cheap but poisonous mixture, and when the civilians were placed on the boat, no one somehow thought that they also needed personal protective equipment. The result is 20 dead. :((
  9. +4
    22 November 2023 06: 57

    It is possible and necessary to talk about problems at ship repair yards, but we will not do this within the scope of this article.
    Those who were undergoing repairs at the shipyard during the USSR and after the collapse of the Union know that it is night and day.
    Even in Gdansk there is more order.
  10. +6
    22 November 2023 07: 13
    If Indian sailors are the same as their builders, then I won’t be surprised that the boat is being written off. At the construction site we had the entire “international” community, the Chinese, Indians from all over Central Asia, and only the Indian dormitories, upon completion of construction in the temporary town, were dismantled. Sorry, but it was jammed and killed in such a way that it’s easier to demolish it than to repair it.
    And regarding the money, they took money for the boat, at the Pacific Fleet of boats, according to open data, the cat cried:

    I understand that this is a simplified approach, but given such a quantity, is it really impossible to build at least a couple more? After all, nothing has been heard about the laying of new ones, and in our country they love to cover it in the media, describing it as another feat, although this is probably true in modern realities.
    1. +1
      22 November 2023 12: 14
      Boats are built and repaired in the same places. The article says that 5 submarines are under repair for 5-10 years, there is nowhere to build
    2. +5
      22 November 2023 12: 29
      Quote: Alexey 1970
      And about the money, they took money for the boat, at the Pacific Fleet of boats, according to open data, the cat cried

      This is data on the “paper” composition. In reality it's even worse.
      There are two live nuclear submarines at the Pacific Fleet, EMNIP. There are four living SSBNs.
  11. +16
    22 November 2023 08: 03
    “But let’s be objective: what are we generally good at today? In what place in what industry?

    Problems are absolutely everywhere and in everything, starting from personnel, which is the main problem in the country. “Effective managers” in the management of companies, who have no idea what the companies are doing and the remnants of Soviet personnel in production, whom no one is in a hurry to change. "
    Putin has surrounded himself with mediocrities and shines against their background. For the sake of a position, these mediocrities will commit any crime in order to remain “close to the emperor.” And someone believes in three-day elections that will change something. That’s how they were introduced so that nothing would change! Nikolashka led the country to both war and revolution. And Putin, who populates Russia with Central Asia, what will lead the country to?
  12. +6
    22 November 2023 08: 13
    For financial reasons, the Navy considers it inappropriate to repair and modernize the Nerpa.
    They shook off the Nerpa and abandoned it. For “skins”, it will do
  13. +3
    22 November 2023 08: 21
    Indians are generally poorly developed technically, the culture of handling technology is not yet at the level to give them such complex things, and they won’t have their own for a long time. They created their tank for almost 12 years and it’s unclear what happened. A very dirty country, the impressions left from it were quite disgusting :(
    1. +11
      22 November 2023 12: 16
      "Indians are generally poorly developed technically,"
      When a long rolled steel plant made from converter steel was built in the city of Tula, steelworkers were sent for training on how to weld steel correctly. Now guess which country? That's right - India!!! So who is technically underdeveloped? Luna-25 is an example for you!
      1. +6
        22 November 2023 12: 57
        Quote: steel maker
        So who is technically underdeveloped?

        It's still India. They have some breakthroughs, but in the country as a whole there is no sign of technical literacy. They still have a very long time to go even to our current level
      2. +2
        22 November 2023 14: 29
        Quote: steel maker
        So who is technically underdeveloped?

        Remember the story of the Indian-assembled AL-31FP.
        ...according to the Minister of Defense, it is known that the Indian Air Force has already had five accidents and 69 incidents with AL-31FP engines produced by HAL since 2012. Of those 69 incidents, 33 were caused by chips in the oil, 11 were caused by vibration in the engine, and eight were caused by very low oil supply pressure, Parrikar said. Allegations were made regarding poor workmanship, which resulted in a rapid fatigue effect causing cracks that led to metal fragments and an oil circuit. The investigation also drew attention to the quality of the oil. By order of the Indian Ministry of Defense, measures were taken: the use of better quality oil, reworking and replacing welding and fastening units between mechanical parts.
        © bmpd
    2. +2
      22 November 2023 15: 18
      Quote: Vadim S
      Hindus are generally poorly developed technically, the culture of handling technology is not yet at the level to give them something so complex

      Sometimes it's better to look in the mirror than to criticize others...
      Please remind me of the fate of the Luna-25 mission and the Chandrayaan-3 mission.
      1. +4
        22 November 2023 19: 48
        Quote: Zoer
        Please remind me of the fate of the Luna-25 mission and the Chandrayaan-3 mission.

        The Indians succeeded the third time (Chandrayaan 1 and 2 did not work out). We didn't succeed at first. What do these facts have to do with the level of technological development of the main industries? Maybe Indian nuclear scientists are teaching ours how to build nuclear power plants? It seems like no, it’s we who teach them (not only us, but us too). Maybe a fleet of nuclear icebreakers was created in India. and I don’t even know? Maybe Tejas is comparable to the Su-35 in terms of performance characteristics? So, it still doesn’t reach the Mig-29 of the early series in everything, and in what it reaches, it’s only due to the imported electronics that India buys. And the level is such that they can’t not only reproduce our engines of the last century, they really can’t assemble them from our components. Maybe they are building something similar to "Ash"? "Ha" three times. Tank "Arjun" - is it on par with the T-90AM? Hypersonic missiles? Did not work out. And so - wherever you spit
        1. 0
          23 November 2023 09: 28
          Or maybe then, for the sake of fairness, let’s compare our pharmaceuticals and theirs? Due to the “good” life in the past, hello 90s, now you have to take a lot of pills and yet many of them say “made in Bharat” or the pharmaceutical raw materials come from there. So much for "three times ha."
          1. +4
            23 November 2023 19: 07
            Quote from AdAstra
            Or maybe then, for the sake of fairness, let’s compare our pharmaceuticals and theirs?

            Compare.
            Quote from AdAstra
            Due to the “good” life in the past, hello 90s, now you have to take a lot of pills and yet many of them say “made in Bharat” or the pharmaceutical raw materials come from there.

            And what kind of comparison is this, excuse me?
            We are talking about the TECHNOLOGICAL LEVEL. The fact that we have a lot of Indian pharmaceuticals (and today it is No. 1 in the world) indicates that we DO NOT PRODUCE a number of drugs, or produce them in insufficient quantities, and not that their technological level is higher.
            And with your logic... it turns out, for example, that we are immeasurably higher than Japan in terms of technological level, because we know how to build nuclear icebreakers, but they cannot
        2. 0
          23 November 2023 20: 50
          Yes, Indians (not all of them are Hindus), of course, are an amazing people. Over the years that they have been independent, three generations of economic miracles and technological breakthroughs have happened in other countries (the first generation - Japan, the second - South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore, the third - China). The Indians have been dancing with elephants all this time, somehow making progress in space and farming (in the latter, almost without their own discoveries, on the backbone of the Americans and Europeans). The trouble with "Tejas" was when a whole team of French specialists from "Dassault" went crazy trying to answer the question of their Indian colleagues "Dad, where is the sea?" - this is literally a symbol of everything Indian.

          But now the world situation itself is playing in India’s favor. China has occupied too large and important a niche in the global economy and has imagined too much of itself on this basis. On the other hand, Europe is not slowing down the pace of deindustrialization. It is necessary to move production somewhere, both from there and from there. So they will fix it - the Japanese also did not set quality for themselves, and the Chinese at one time shocked their Western partners with the level of chaos.
        3. 0
          24 November 2023 00: 20
          We've had this happen 25 times, if that.
  14. +2
    22 November 2023 09: 18
    «Effective managers"in the management of companies who have no idea what the companies are doing

    If we really have problems with factories, is it worth throwing away nuclear boats like that? Yes, “Magadan” is almost 20 years older than “Nerpa”, but still. This is a boat that can serve Russia. Certainly, earning foreign currency in such quantities is also a service, but the question is: who needs it more?.


    The question of making money is, of course, rhetorical: it is needed, not by the fleet, but by “effective managers.”
    1. 0
      26 November 2023 04: 02
      Come on, blame effective managers because they need money. They're not needed. They earned 2 billion greenbacks for leasing, and Nabiulina gave back more than 300 billion. What kind of “effective” are you making of the fiends of hell? They don’t feel sorry for anything for their partners. This is not the economy of your own country. Although what to consider as your own country... is also a difficult question.
  15. +3
    22 November 2023 11: 08
    The Indians decided not to risk repeating the fate of Kursk and handed over the boat a year earlier than expected. Ours also seem to be aware of the matter and also do not want to take risks. The boat was built for a very long time and in very difficult times in our country. As a result, this nuclear submarine became famous for its tragedy already during acceptance tests. The explosion of the air pressure system after 10 years of service also says a lot. So the decision is correct. It's better to build a new Ash tree.
  16. +4
    22 November 2023 11: 31
    Nobody remembers the incident when the Indians, during a training exercise, invited American comrades onto the boat, and nothing, this incident was quickly forgotten!!!
  17. +2
    22 November 2023 11: 58
    Is almost two years to carry out troubleshooting a lot?

    For the Far East, this is almost instantaneous.
    At the ever-memorable "Bratsk", troubleshooting was carried out for as long as 10 years. And they could have done this further... but on the orders of Shoigu, who was morphing at such a pace of repairs, the nuclear submarine was dragged from the plant in Vilyuchinsk to Severodvinsk. smile
  18. +3
    22 November 2023 14: 06
    On the one hand, the author is right. Most likely not an old boat. But on the other hand, money and strategic partnerships. 2 billion for the Nerpa is much more than its real value, which I estimate at 1 - 1.2 billion. It would be possible to simply sell it for that kind of money. Vikramaditya went to India for 2.3 billion, and the aircraft carrier will be more expensive. So nothing so terrible happened, and I guess that when in 2010 ours decided about a 10-year leasing to India, they took this into account. That the boat will not return to service. Well, strategic bonuses. Nobody but us will give India a nuclear submarine.
    1. -1
      23 November 2023 20: 55
      For rent - no. And so the French have long been asking the Brazilians (also BRICS) to build their nuclear submarines, and even the stories of the previous Brazilian president about how he orally loved Macron’s mother did not stop this.
  19. 0
    22 November 2023 14: 11
    3300000000000 dollars, you can build 1,5 Ash trees or 20 Varshavyankas
  20. +1
    22 November 2023 14: 47
    "Where do the funds go?
    Which cities?"
    I really want to sing along to the results of this article...
  21. +5
    22 November 2023 15: 47
    solar (Sergey), dear, for rupees you can buy a cart and a small cart of pharmaceuticals, which already come from India; the Russian Federation has successfully killed its pharmaceutical industry (except for radioactive drugs for the diagnosis and treatment of oncology, which Rosatom's subsidiary companies produce). In addition, it has already been decided that bulk carriers and tankers will be built in India for transportation in the Caspian Sea. USC, as usual, has screwed itself up to its ears, we are being saved by: Turkey, China, Vietnam, South Korea. At the same time, USC enterprises are less than 70% loaded this year. (that’s how the program was written, that’s how it’s executed).
    1. 0
      22 November 2023 16: 39
      South Korea can no longer save us. Sanctions.
    2. +3
      23 November 2023 01: 12
      pharmaceuticals
      Tea, coffee, tobacco, rice, cocoa - you can buy a lot of things from India.
      1. 0
        23 November 2023 20: 59
        A store of Indian goods, from rice to cosmetics, recently opened next door. I've been to India and I can imagine the prices there. But for some reason they sell here at such prices as if they were brought not from India, but from Switzerland.
  22. 0
    22 November 2023 15: 52
    Two years in defect testing alone is a catastrophically long time.
  23. +1
    22 November 2023 17: 18
    If you correctly draw up a leasing agreement, and also insure risks not in “pocket” insurance companies that are registered with, say, the mother-in-law or cousin of a minister, then you can write off the boats without any problems even after 5 years of service.
    And if the leasing agreement is drawn up by suckers who graduated from some kind of “VTUZ at ZIL”, then the result will be obvious.
  24. 0
    22 November 2023 19: 05
    In this case, doesn’t financial liability apply for damaged rental property?
    If the submarine is broken, then return the cost of the property, not the broken hull.
  25. +1
    22 November 2023 19: 07
    Why do we need to restore this old thing, which was also defiled by the Indians?
  26. 0
    22 November 2023 19: 15
    Unfortunately, it is not prestigious to be a worker today. Thanks to years of advertising on TV and the Internet.
    Here! Here! I have always said that damned journalists and bloggers are to blame for all our troubles! But the Kremlin authorities, the State Duma, the oligarchs, and we ourselves are not involved!

    We lived without knowing any worries
    There was no cult until
    The evil press did not rush
    To unblock the cult!

    It's the press's fault
    That we are in front of all the people,
    Not united as they once were
    And in schism and confusion!..

    The fact that we had Chernobyl.
    The fact is that long-term construction is in fashion.
    The fact that the person is an official
    Sometimes he lies without blushing!

    It's the press's fault
    (at least don’t open the newspaper)
    The fact that people have a salary
    It seems like there is, but in general - no!

    What's bad about medicine.
    The fact is that there is chaos in the field.
    No products in the store
    and normal knowledge at school...

    The press has become yellow and sticky
    (The leader would not have tolerated this!)
    After all, in our great country,
    Following the press appeared

    Pollution of Lake Baikal and -
    (literally in a day!) -
    Drug addicts, informals
    and other prostitutes.

    R. Rozhdestvensky
  27. +1
    22 November 2023 20: 52
    Glagol1 (Andrey), dear, still saves today. Aframax class tankers with a deadweight of 114 tons "Vladimir Monomakh", "Vladimir Vinogradov", "Okeansky Prospekt" and the "Akademik Gubkin" commissioned in July of this year of the "Hyundai 000K" project carry petroleum products across the seas and oceans. Their sistership "Eastern Avenue" was launched in September. They will complete it and test it. The Arctic shuttle tanker with a deadweight of 114 tons "Valentin Pikul" was launched in July, it must be completed and tested, there is nothing particularly complicated about it. But! “Samsung AST69K” the project is called... As for gas tankers - yes, there’s a complete plug...
    1. 0
      25 November 2023 14: 01
      As for gas carriers, as I understand it, the tanks and everything nearby is a French monopoly. What we ended up with even without the Koreans - we built gas carriers, well, troughs, but the French did not provide containers. Now the question is what to do with the troughs.
  28. +3
    22 November 2023 22: 57
    I think that such expensive leasing is a hidden form of sale, which is either limited or prohibited in some way, or maybe we, in a fit of catoleopolding, banned ourselves.
    In general, if anyone remembers, the scandal that recently arose during the creation of AUCUS was when the Gauls got on board with the order of boats for Australia, and precisely that the nuclear submarines will now be supplied by other “partners”.
    China, as I remember, said that this would violate the non-proliferation of nuclear technology.
    So I wouldn’t complain that the Indians essentially took away the boat they bought.
    And the fact that we have problems with shipbuilding - so what does the Indians have to do with it?
    They saved us Sukhoi in those years, and tank building, and Zvezdochka to a great extent, and also - Vikramaditya alone took so many years to build in Severodvinsk, and how many lards it cost the Indians, by the way, twice as expensive as our “managers” negotiated, because what a scandal there was.
    1. -1
      23 November 2023 21: 07
      Quote: faterdom
      In general, if anyone remembers, the scandal that recently arose during the creation of AUCUS was when the Gauls got on board with the order of boats for Australia, and precisely that the nuclear submarines will now be supplied by other “partners”.


      It was there that they first ordered non-nuclear submarines, and the French spent a long time and painfully converting their nuclear-powered Barracuda into a non-nuclear one, hence the delays and cost overruns. And then the Australians suddenly announce that they need a nuclear submarine, so the French go through the forest. The burning in Paris is easy to understand) But now another act of the Sydney theater ballet has begun there - it seems that the American nuclear submarines for Australia are moving greatly to the right, if at all. Moreover, the excuses from the United States are exactly the same as for the Ukrainians - they don’t have enough, sensitive technologies, the risk of escalation, but you really don’t need it. So in a few years the Australians will bow back to the French)
  29. 0
    23 November 2023 02: 34
    Yes, the Indians just trashed her, that’s all. There are people who are afraid to trust equipment more complex than a crowbar; this is a vivid example.
  30. 0
    23 November 2023 08: 18
    fatherdom (Andrey), dear, I have to correct you a little. "Zvezdochka" for India repaired and modernized diesel-electric submarines pr. 877EKM "Halibut" for "Caliber". And “Vikramaditya” was made by Sevmash. In 2005, Sevmash delivered two diesel-electric submarines, Project 636M "Varshavyanka", for the People's Republic of China.
  31. +1
    23 November 2023 09: 14
    1) Give the new submarine to the Indians;
    2) They bring it to a state unsuitable for restoration and return it.
    3) Repeat steps 1 and 2.

    I have no doubt about the corruption component and gray schemes.
  32. Eug
    0
    23 November 2023 10: 15
    The amount received is $2 billion. sufficient to build a new nuclear submarine? If it is sufficient, then build a new one as soon as possible - or complete the construction of the one located in the dock (see comments above) or lay down a new one. It is necessary to deal with construction deadlines, otherwise boats will be written off faster than built.
    1. 0
      1 January 2024 20: 47
      An amount of 2 yards of dollars is enough for ash and 2-3 Warsaw
  33. 0
    23 November 2023 12: 13
    Why did they even agree to take the boat back? The standard rule is that the lessee is obliged to return the product in working condition, taking into account normal wear and tear. Otherwise, buy back or compensate for the full cost of restoration repairs.
    Or was there such a powerful rollback that they closed it forever?
  34. 0
    23 November 2023 12: 27
    Apparently, the Indians mutilated the Nerpa so badly that, indeed, its restoration may be impractical.
    May be. Even most likely. There’s just one question) Leasing involves concluding an agreement. Well, about leasing) And in that agreement there is always a block about how exactly the goods can be returned back.
    And this can only be done through a meticulous commission. The commission is appointed to ensure that the lessor does not return the garbage. Because among leasing companies there are no bad ones - taking back ruins. Not in companies, but in Moscow Region?! Who is so generous here that he accepted the scrap metal back? Actually, if the client is SO cunning, they don’t accept the goods back, but go to court, to arbitration...
    So, let's keep it simple. Who and how much did the Indians pay so that our Ministry of Defense would take back this waste? Everything else is generally trivial...
  35. 0
    23 November 2023 19: 03
    The author is the first specialist of the office "everything is gone!" and the second is how to pull a globe onto an owl. How?! How can one attract a boat, worn out by Indian “specialists”, to the “bad”, in his words, domestic military ship repair? And here, the inquisitive reader immediately gets burned, but who then has a “good” instant magical ship repair? An inquisitive reader, and not a dull follower and a smart one with hindsight. Author, I know what you are reading. Who is doing “better” in military ship repair of such quantity and quality of nuclear submarines? Who repairs more, better and faster, with as many suitable shipyards as our fleet? Well, of course, I hope the answer will come from the author, who is, of course, responsible for his writing. Who decided that this was a “bad” ship repair, and not an ordinary world result? Whiners in the comments? Yes, even if we formally fall into the formal top three of ship repair according to the criteria of “quantity, quality, deadlines,” then this is an excellent result and the author, with his slander about “effective” managers, is simply making an unexpected mistake? Where are the managers better, where do they save less money?
    Maybe here;
    “The US Navy continues to experience difficulties with domestic ship repair capacity. Therefore, the Biden administration is considering an agreement to repair Navy pennants at commercial shipyards in Japan
    - indicated in the publication Nikkei Asia.
    (It's right there on TV)
    This is true with their amount of capacity and capabilities (finance) for nuclear submarine ship repair. The rest of their fleet hangs up even more during repairs IMHO.
    Of course, I don’t have any insider information, but IMHO if there are problems with a damaged reactor, then there is no point in “repairing and changing” it, which is not entirely on topic, but that’s probably what happened with Nakhimov.
    It’s a shame, yes, for our shipbuilders, but this is the easiest way to offend the working people and entire teams with obscene writings. Although, tightening such a GGG nut won’t stain the paper or plug the computer with your fingers.
    1. 0
      24 November 2023 12: 38
      So the sad ones have moved into the minus.
  36. -1
    23 November 2023 21: 14
    Submarines (and almost any equipment) are not directly converted into money. Over the past two years, both we and our Western partners have understood this, but in general this has been clear since the beginning of the industrial era. The boat costs two billion, but two billion is not a boat. We lost 300 billion in our foreign accounts, this does not mean that we could have had 150 boats instead. Neither could the Americans, nor the mega-industrial Chinese.
  37. 0
    26 November 2023 09: 31
    1. No one can sell or buy nuclear submarines - there are all sorts of conventions and this and that.
    2. Everything leased must be insured under CASCO insurance.
    Hence the question, was the Indian "Nerpa" insured?
  38. 0
    26 November 2023 15: 30
    Rogozin should be appointed to lead Zvezdochka. Moreover, it makes no difference whether you are older or younger. am
  39. +1
    17 December 2023 21: 53
    3 billion 300 million dollars

    If you pump up the factories, you can probably get 4 units for that money.
    Ideally, 1-2 and the rest should be invested in production.
    It's basically normal, isn't it?
  40. 0
    19 February 2024 09: 31
    Unfortunately, it is not prestigious to be a worker today. Thanks to years of advertising on TV and the Internet.

    What nonsense is this?
    It is not prestigious to work in difficult conditions for pennies.
    If a mechanic’s salary is lower than a pizza delivery guy’s salary, then what does it have to do with prestige or not, or TV and the Internet?
    Now capitalism, and the goal of every self-respecting person, is to get as much as possible and work as little as possible. Nothing personal - the law of the market.
  41. 0
    12 March 2024 11: 21
    It’s high time to stop spending billions on repairing outright old stuff and switch to producing new Borei-K series nuclear submarines.
    Based on project 955, produce boats with Zircon, caliber-M, and Oniks-M cruise missiles.
    Firstly, the operation and repair of the same type of Boreev - A and Boreev - K will be greatly simplified.
    Secondly, the training system for nuclear submarine crews will be greatly simplified
    Thirdly, the cost of building one Yasen is commensurate with the cost of an entire division of new Boreys, so the Navy will never see more than 6 Yasen-Ms, but what can they do against 40 American “hunters” ....
    Fourthly, in terms of low noise characteristics, Boreas are superior to both the modernized nuclear submarines of Project 971M and the “loaves” of Project 949, and the cost of their modernization is comparable to the cost of building a new nuclear submarine of Project 955.
    Only in one case will we get a fleet with a sufficient service life of 10 years, and in general in the second case, for the same money we will get at least two divisions of new modern nuclear submarines with a service life of 30-40 years....
  42. 0
    18 March 2024 17: 45
    VVD cylinder 400 atmospheres. There was quite a boom there. Now the question? Why did he boom? My heart senses that the Indians have damaged the boat SO much that there is simply nothing to repair.