"Mogami": beautiful and dangerous, like its ancestor

69
"Mogami": beautiful and dangerous, like its ancestor

On November 14, the eighth Japanese Mogami-class frigate, JS Yūbetsu, was launched in the city of Tamano, Okayama Prefecture, in the southern part of the Japanese island of Honshu. These multifunctional ships should become the basis of the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF), which, to be honest, is hard to call “self-defense forces”, since their composition represents a decent navy.

These are very advanced ships, equipped with a wide range of combat capabilities. The frigates have a futuristic appearance, given their sharp geometric profiles, designed in accordance with stealth technologies. Japanese military experts believe that the Mogami will be able to carry out various missions for the Japan Self-Defense Forces.




The entire series of ships are named after rivers in Japan. This is the tradition in the Japanese Navy, in this country in general it was not easy with names for ships. In general, the ships were named by the emperor, only in 1897 such a right was granted to the minister fleet. Since 1921, the Emperor personally gave names only to battleships and cruisers. It should be noted that in the name much more attention was paid to how melodic it sounds, and not what it carries in itself.

The ships were named after mountains (cruisers Atago, Hiei, Takao), after provinces of Japan (battleships Nagato, Yamato, Kaga), islands (Kurokami, Enoshima), rivers (cruisers "Tenryu", "Tone"), famous and beautiful places in Japan (cruisers "Akashi", "Itsukushima", "Matsushima", "Hashidate").

On August 1, 1905, a certain system came to the process of naming ships:
- battleships (and, subsequently, battleships) receive the names of the provinces of Japan, or other names or self-names of Japan are used as the name of the ship.
- cruisers of the first rank receive the names of mountains.
- cruisers of the second and third ranks receive city names.

True, the tendency to name ships after cities was not supported by action. The Japanese continued to avoid names that were too clearly reminiscent of everyday human activity, preferring to capture on board not the bustle of people, but the eternal beauty of nature.

Now you may ask: why this strange excursion into history, what does that name have to do with it? What do modern ships have to do with this?

It's simple. The Japanese are a very unique nation and they have a unique approach to many things. The fleet has always been the pride of the nation, and there are a lot of Japanese who are sick of the fleet, in the good sense of the word. And today, for many, the revival of the Japanese navy is a kind of revenge for defeat in World War II.

Yes, Japan is a small country, and the number of place names there is... small? Not at all, there are enough names to give names to five such fleets that Japan had in 1941. However, let's see if there are any “random” coincidences with ships of the Imperial Navy of those years.

"Mogami" - a light cruiser, later converted into a heavy cruiser, sunk in 1944.
Kumano - light/heavy cruiser of the Mogami class, sunk in 1944.
Noshiro - light cruiser, Agano class, sunk in 1944.
Mikuma - light/heavy cruiser of the Mogami class, sunk in 1942.
Yahagi - light cruiser, Agano class, sunk in 1945.
"Agano" - light cruiser, sunk in 1944.
Niyodo - light cruiser of the Oyodo class, sunk in 1944.
"Yubetsu" is the only exception. Yes, there was a project for such a light air defense cruiser, but it did not come to fruition, which is why the Yubari-class escort destroyer first received this name in the 80s of the last century.

The rest, as you can see, were participants in the Second World War who did not live to see September 1.09.1945, 35. Coincidence? Don't think. The fact that the Japanese name their new ships in honor of THOSE ships - there is definitely a hidden sacred meaning in this. In Japan, if anything, there are more than 000 rivers of various sizes. And one could find enough names for ships, but the Mogami-gawa, one of the three fastest rivers in Japan, for some reason has an advantage over the others.


In general, the picture is this: all the frigates are named after the rivers of the Japanese islands, all similarities with the ships of the Japanese Imperial Navy, it turns out, are accidental and are the fruit of the author’s paranoia. Happens.

So what are the heirs of that Japanese Imperial Navy?


JS Yubetsu (FFM-8) during the naming ceremony, November 14, 2023

Mogami-class ships are capable of everything from surveillance to mine sweeping, as well as combating surface, air and underwater targets. The frigates are equipped with advanced electronic warfare systems and detection equipment. But above all, they are designed to be operated by surprisingly small crews. Essentially, they will help the Japan Self-Defense Forces do much more with much less.


JS Mogami pictured in April 2022

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Maritime Systems has been awarded a contract to supply 12 frigates to the Japan Self-Defense Forces, the last of which are due to enter service after 2027. The Mogami-class frigates are expected to eventually replace the older Asagiri-class destroyers and Abukuma-class destroyer escorts. The lead vessels of both classes were put into operation in 1988.


Japanese destroyer Asagiri


Abukuma-class destroyer escort Oyodo, pictured in January 2023

All Mogami-class frigates have a standard displacement of approximately 3 tons and a gross displacement of approximately 900 tons. By comparison, Asagiri-class destroyers have a slightly smaller displacement; 5 tons standard and 500 tons full. It should be noted that the Asagiri-class destroyers have a smaller displacement than many other destroyers in the Japanese Self-Defense Force fleet. The Akizuki-class destroyers have a standard displacement of 3 tons and a gross displacement of 500 tons, while the Aegis-equipped Maya-class destroyers have a standard displacement of 5 tons and a gross displacement of 200 tons.


Destroyer "Akizuki"


Destroyer "Maya"

In terms of propulsion, the Mogami class ships are equipped with one Rolls-Royce MT30 gas turbine and two MAN V28/33DD STC diesel engines. The ships can reach speeds of more than 30 knots.

Each frigate is armed with a BAE Systems 5-inch (127 mm) Mark 45 naval gun system, as well as two Japan Steel Works 12,7 mm remote-controlled weapon stations.


The main striking power of the frigates is the Lockheed Martin Mk 16 41-cell air launcher for launching MHI's Type 03 Chu-SAM surface-to-air missiles and MHI Type 12 ship-based anti-ship missiles. Raytheon's SeaRAM system provides the closest line of defense against anti-ship missiles and small boats.

"Mogami" can install their own mines and mine others.


As expected, the frigates are equipped with advanced electronic warfare systems. Mogami-class ships currently in service and those soon to be commissioned are equipped with the NOLQ-3E system, which integrates passive radar and electronic attack capabilities, as well as devices for launching various countermeasures in the face of anti-ship missile attacks.

In terms of sensors and radars, the frigates boast the OPY-2 X-band multi-role Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar and Mitsubishi Electric's OAX-3 electro-optical/infrared (EO/IR) sensors.

In addition, the frigates are equipped with NEC's OQQ-25 Variable Depth Sonar (VDS), Towed Acoustic Sonar System (TASS) for anti-submarine warfare, and a hull-mounted OQQ-11 mine countermeasure sonar from Hitachi. The ships are also equipped with the OYQ-1 combat control system and the OYX-1-29 information display/processing system.

Antennas and tactical data links are stored in the UNIted CONbined Radio aNtenna (UNICORN) NORA-50 integration mast.


At the stern of the frigates there is a landing deck and a single hangar for a Mitsubishi SH-60L Sea Hawk helicopter. The Mogami-class frigates are also capable of using two MHI OZZ-5 unmanned underwater vehicles (UUVs) and two unmanned surface vehicles (USVs) for mine sweeping.


All of this equipment is packaged in a reduced signature design that will provide greater survivability for the class. The overall radar detection range is also reduced, making it more difficult for enemies to be detected and engaged at long ranges.

Perhaps the biggest difference between the Mogami-class frigates and the Asagiri-class destroyers they will replace is the size of their crews.

The Asagiri usually has a crew of 220, but the Mogami-class ships are designed for a crew of only 90 people. This is surprisingly small for such a large ship.


A high level of automation makes this possible, and the best example of the technical level is the Combat Information Center (CIC), which is a giant 360-degree circular wall. This certainly adds a futuristic feel to the frigates and will allow sailors to perform tactical missions, command and control, engineering, navigation, damage control, firefighting, communications and other functions through feature-rich consoles and open architecture software. Augmented reality will also be part of the system, displaying key information such as target trajectories and potential hazards on screens.

The ability to effectively carry out a variety of missions with small crew sizes remains the main reason why Japan initiated efforts to field Mogami-class frigates in the mid-2010s.


Along with the commissioning of 12 Mogami-class frigates, Japan is seeking to expand its naval capabilities against the backdrop of China's growing shipbuilding capabilities. As US experts have previously noted, the country's key naval programs include the construction of two Aegis-equipped cruise ships (ASEVs), as well as the continued modification of two Izumo-class aircraft carriers so that they can carry F-35B aircraft with short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL).


Japan has committed to increasing defense spending in recent years, unveiling a massive $320 billion five-year military spending plan last year as well as a significant $2024 billion defense budget request for fiscal year 52,9. However, compared to other Japanese Self-Defense Force warships, the Mogami-class frigates appear to be staggeringly well priced for their purported capabilities.

The first two ships, which were ordered in 2018, cost less than US$500 million each, with an estimated price of between US$370 million and US$410 million per frigate. More recent estimates suggest even lower procurement costs to the $300 million range. This is significantly less than, for example, the Freedom-class coastal combat ship, the functionality of which is more than in doubt.

However, Japan is already looking beyond its twelve Mogami.


The country initially intended to procure 22 Mogami-class frigates under its defense program (MTDP) for fiscal years 2019-23, which received approval in late 2018. However, as part of the fiscal year 2024 budget request, the Japanese Ministry of Defense reduced this figure to 12. At the same time, it planned to purchase 12 “new multi-role frigates” in addition to the existing 12 Mogami-class ships.

And this will be a new project, which is called... “Mogami”!

The new Mogami-class frigates, based on the Mogami-class design, will have a larger standard displacement in the region of 4 tons. The total displacement will be about 880 tons. The length and width will also be increased compared to the Mogami class. Other similarities to the Mogami class include propulsion and speed, as well as a relatively small crew size.

Notably, the new multi-role frigates will be more focused on the air defense role, with MHI introducing the nomenclature FFM-AAW, which stands for multi-role air defense frigate. The frigates will be equipped with a 32-cell rather than a 16-cell vertical launch system. The frigates will launch an improved, longer-range version of the Type 12 anti-ship missile, as well as Japan's "new ship-to-air guided missile," or A-SAM, providing the ships with improved defense capabilities.

In addition to operating a single SH-60L helicopter, the frigate will also be able to launch an unmanned aerial vehicle as a reconnaissance vehicle, thereby enhancing the ships' intelligence gathering and surveillance capabilities. The mast has also been redesigned to accommodate upgraded sensors.

In terms of schedule, MHI expects construction of the vessels to begin in 2027, with all 12 vessels to be completed by 2036. Based on available data, the new frigates will ultimately cost more than the Mogami class ships. In August this year, the Japan Self-Defense Forces requested about $1,16 billion to build the first two new multi-role frigates.

The rapid construction of Japan's Mogami-class frigates is certainly impressive, as are their capabilities, especially the level of automation they deploy to compensate for such a small crew size. It will be interesting to see how the Japanese can implement their plans.

Other concepts with a minimally manned crew have been difficult to implement properly, a prime example being littoral combat ships. Regardless, these ships are clearly designed to offer balanced capabilities at a very attractive price, and are certainly worth keeping an eye on, as are their larger, more heavily armed brethren that are now appearing on the horizon.

The Japanese have always been able to build good ships. From the very beginning of the 20th century. And today their industry, represented by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Maritime Systems, demonstrates continuity with those who built the Mogami, Nagato and Yamato. And it’s not even a matter of some continuity in terms of names; that’s not the most important thing. Much more important is that the Japanese still know how to build ships with good performance in large quantities.
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  1. +25
    25 November 2023 04: 34
    the ship is good...they are building it well...everything is good...one thing is bad...it wasn’t built here...but everything is fine
    1. +8
      25 November 2023 10: 24
      What can I say, envy and resentment are simply gnawing sad
      1. +8
        25 November 2023 11: 52
        No need to be jealous. Yes, they build good ships, but don’t forget, there are no sanctions against them, any sub-suppliers are at hand all over the world, there is a lot of money, competencies are preserved. We would try it in our situation. By the way, the Japanese never learned how to build passenger planes. Mitsubishi tried, they gave them striped engines, avionics, etc., spent 3 billion dollars and the project was closed. Meanwhile, in Russia, right next door, in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, we are building very decent superjets, of which there are already 200 flying around the world, and we are also replacing imports on our own. And our frigate 22350 is very good. So don’t be jealous, appreciate what we can do, and even under the external blockade of the “civilized world.”
        1. +7
          25 November 2023 22: 44
          No one can now create a competitive airliner without strong government assistance. And the point here is not the quality of the aircraft itself (it seems that the Japanese did not turn out that bad). The Americans and the French have giant corporations into which hundreds of billions have been poured in over decades. Any A or B anywhere from Rio to Taipei will be serviced, diagnosed and, if necessary, spare parts for repair will be delivered as soon as possible. Because a corporation with thousands of airliners on its balance sheet can and should afford it. But a company that has produced several dozen will always suffer. “So, our front strut broke in Kuala Lampur! While we order a new one, while it is made, delivered and cleared, the user company will incur losses on the cost of the aircraft, and we will pay them all these losses under insurance.” Meanwhile, A or B have enough of these racks in stock around the world to deliver in a couple of days.
        2. +8
          25 November 2023 23: 49
          By the way, the Japanese never learned how to build passenger planes.

          NAMC YS-11, short- and medium-haul airliner, Nihon Aircraft Manufacturing Corporation group of companies
    2. +2
      26 November 2023 01: 53
      The main thing is not to google when they started to be built and when they were launched, the toad will simply strangle you
  2. Eug
    +5
    25 November 2023 04: 43
    Hmmm... I wonder how with such a small crew they will ensure the fight for survivability? And what about the range?
    1. +7
      25 November 2023 05: 25
      Quote: Eug
      And what about the range?

      Will walk along the coast of Japan - the Self-Defense Forces, however.
      * * *
      Today I noticed:
      The entire series of ships are named after rivers in Japan. This is the tradition in the Japanese Navy, in this country in general it was not easy with names for ships.

      But this has its own sacred meaning - to call the temporary (in comparison with the life of a person, a state, the time of a dynasty) eternal, attributing to it certain properties that are not subject to external influences...
      * * *
      Even from once great people, over time, only a dash remains between two dates. And some will not be remembered until the meticulous Vyacheslav Shpakovsky (Caliber) embeds an article on the VO website...
      * * *
      Such gloomy reflections can come on your birthday...
      request
    2. +5
      25 November 2023 16: 11
      Quote: Eug
      With such a small crew, how will they ensure the fight for survivability?

      This is one of the problems that, as a rule, can only be solved by the crew... But there is another one: duplication of systems. Everything is fine as long as there is electricity, but when it’s gone, who from the local control post (CP) will repel the ISV attack? launch TO on submarines, set IR traps, etc. We have already made disposable lighter ships...Now everyone is relying on AI. And order the commander’s intuition and experience to be handed over to a museum!?
      Well, well, “forward, towards the dawn”!
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. +7
    25 November 2023 04: 47
    Where did the full-time naval specialist named Maxim Klimov go? It's been a while since we've seen his publications.
    1. +5
      25 November 2023 16: 39
      Quote: anatolv
      full-time naval specialist named Maxim Klimov

      Who has been banned on the resource countless times?
      1. +1
        20 December 2023 08: 28
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Quote: anatolv
        full-time naval specialist named Maxim Klimov

        Who has been banned on the resource countless times?

        Why was he banned?
        1. +3
          20 December 2023 10: 19
          Quote: Petrov-Alexander_1Sergeevich
          Why was he banned?

          For endless rudeness :))
  5. -3
    25 November 2023 04: 56
    I am interested in Japanese frigates in terms of Tsushima or Port Arthur.
    What damage can Japan's 12 frigates cause to our country in the event of a war with it?
    Sailors are more competent in this matter...maybe one of the sea wolves will explain this point to us on land.
    1. +3
      25 November 2023 05: 14
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      What damage can Japan's 12 frigates cause to our country in the event of a war with it?

      12 frigates will not be able to cause any damage. But they will operate with frigates of other countries and there they will become some kind of combat unit
      1. AAK
        +4
        25 November 2023 10: 32
        The main function of this ship is anti-aircraft defense, therefore, in cooperation with excellent base patrol aircraft, their own non-nuclear submarines and US ships, the Japanese will tightly cover our Pacific Fleet submarines, and as for the few surface ships, Japanese and American aviation will work on them
      2. +3
        25 November 2023 16: 33
        The Japanese have two aircraft carriers, so the entire fleet is built around them. Because, by the way, the number of ships is even and even a multiple of four.
        1. 0
          27 November 2023 13: 01
          2 at BS, 1 on vacation/study, 1 under repair. Total: 4.
      3. +6
        26 November 2023 20: 28
        12 frigates "no damage"???
        Each of the frigates can carry many missiles in their airborne launchers. Let's assume that most of them are anti-ship missiles and air defense missiles. But let’s assume that 3-4 of them are still occupied by cruise missiles capable of striking ground targets.
        Total 36-48 cruise missiles. Of course, this is provided that all the frigates gather for the attack. But even 4 frigates are capable of firing a salvo of 12-16 missiles. And this (with proper distribution of targets) can paralyze the main systems of work of almost any large city in the east. And even more so, lead to the catastrophic destruction of a military base (yes, there are advanced means of defense, but the area of ​​the base is clearly smaller than the city).

        What if the frigates oppose the fleet?!
        Then again, 4 frigates, in total, can carry 2-3 dozen anti-ship missiles. So their 12 frigates (which are not the only ones, they have ANOTHER ships and aircraft) are capable of doing a LOT.
    2. -10
      25 November 2023 05: 36
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      What damage Japan's 12 frigates could harm our country in the event of a war with it.

      I can assume (because the Ground Forces) that much smaller, which can hit you back. Everything here will depend on the intensity of the attack of these Self-Defense Forces. The samurai, who had lost their intelligence and honor, forgot the main commandment that one must live in peace and friendship with one’s neighbors, and it’s time to get rid of the current occupiers who have set up some kind of military bases on the territory of the state.
      * * *
      It is quite possible that it will turn out that happiness is not in the Self-Defense Forces, and it is not up to the island state to threaten a nuclear power capable of “glassing” any archipelago.
    3. 0
      25 November 2023 07: 11
      Well, let’s say, in cooperation with helicopter carriers - to squeeze out the Kuril Islands
      1. 0
        25 November 2023 07: 46
        Quote: novel xnumx
        Well, let’s say, in cooperation with helicopter carriers - to squeeze out the Kuril Islands

        What if we prevent this in cooperation with nuclear weapons, and even squeeze out Hokkaido?
    4. +6
      25 November 2023 07: 44
      Yes, no one will fight with Russia once, it’s not enough strength. The Russians will always be fought by coalitions led by you know who.
      1. +1
        27 November 2023 13: 41
        Quote: Igor Viktorovich
        Yes, no one will fight with Russia once, it’s not enough strength.

        404? Not?
    5. +2
      25 November 2023 12: 17
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      I am interested in Japanese frigates in terms of Tsushima or Port Arthur.
      What damage can Japan's 12 frigates cause to our country in the event of a war with it?
      Sailors are more competent in this matter...maybe one of the sea wolves will explain this point to us on land.

      Count the number of ships in the Pacific Fleet and the number of missiles in the Japanese fleet
      1. -6
        25 November 2023 15: 52
        One rocket with a special charge will be enough, and they won’t have time to say meow. We're just kind)
    6. +5
      25 November 2023 16: 43
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      What damage can Japan's 12 frigates cause to our country in the event of a war with it?

      The only sane goal for a war with us seems to be the capture of the Kuril Islands. Well, maybe they will encroach on Sakhalin, although this is completely unlikely. In any case, all this can only be captured through landings - hence the tasks for the Japanese fleet
      1. 0
        26 November 2023 01: 41
        It’s just not clear what the Japanese will gain from this. Their population is moving to big cities and is actually melting rapidly. And that their ships won’t start sinking on these pieces of land is a big question. Otherwise it may turn out that not only the Ukrainian Armed Forces have unmanned boats
        1. +2
          27 November 2023 10: 43
          Quote from alexoff
          It’s just not clear what the Japanese will gain from this.

          Well, resources, first of all - there are deposits of all sorts of things in the coastal zone + sea creatures that you can eat + the fact that the Kuril Islands belongs to the Japanese has a sacred meaning in terms of self-awareness. Strategically, there will be no more "Lake of Okhotsk Pacific Fleet"
          Quote from alexoff
          Otherwise it may turn out that not only the Ukrainian Armed Forces have unmanned boats

          These boats were given to you. Firstly, they didn’t show anything sensible in the air defense system, secondly, they have a significant limitation in range and thirdly, they only make any sense against ships at anchor.
    7. +2
      25 November 2023 17: 13
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      What damage can Japan's 12 frigates cause to our country in the event of a war with it?

      Country??? As far as I know, they are not carriers of nuclear weapons... Therefore, the country has practically none.
      TOF? It all depends on in what area and what composition the forces will meet... For example, the ARPC SN are protected by the entire system of support, security and defense of the fleet. Therefore, it is unlikely that frigates will be allowed to approach them within the range of using anti-aircraft missiles...
      Ash trees are definitely too tough for them. Without anti-aircraft aircraft, the Japanese will definitely not “ban” them...
      General purpose forces. Here, without our BRAVs and aviation, it will be very, very difficult for the ships of the Pacific Fleet... But everything is possible with a successful combination of circumstances...
      That is why in recent years we have been so hastily updating the ship composition of the Pacific Fleet.
      But in general, the Yankees are inciting the Japanese (and training them, judging by the direction of the BP forces of the SO) against the big yellow-faced brother, anticipating a mess in the Taiwan Strait...
      IMHO.
      1. +2
        25 November 2023 23: 39
        Without anti-aircraft aircraft, the Japanese will definitely not “ban” them...

        Japan has one of the most powerful ASW aviation groups in the world - about 80 Orion and Kawasaki P-1 ASW aircraft.
    8. 0
      25 November 2023 17: 51
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      What damage can Japan's 12 frigates cause to our country in the event of a war with it?

      Their main tasks are anti-submarine defense, mine laying and escorting transports with an expeditionary force.
      The Japanese are preparing two full-fledged squadrons with light aircraft carriers and missile defense destroyers, while frigates and non-nuclear submarines will be engaged in defense and patrolling of the water area. Having all this, as well as numerous fighter and anti-submarine aircraft, they will be able to cause us a lot of trouble in the Far East, because the Kuril Islands are not off their political agenda...
      In addition, if necessary, they can significantly complicate the life of the Chinese Navy, working in close conjunction with the Navy of Korea and the United States.
    9. 0
      25 November 2023 19: 13
      We must assume that Japan's overall strategy most likely has not changed. Japan prefers not to “tank” - it bites and acts only where it feels its confident local advantage at a particular moment in time and, most importantly, sees that in the future it will be possible to “legalize” what it has bitten off. The experience of BB2 showed them well the limits of their own appetites, so this fleet - it will most likely be used for the defense of the mother country, but it will also be implied that it will be involved in this “operation bite”, a sort of banzai swoop.
      And in this situation, yes, it can be very shabby. successful and destructive for the enemy.
      Japan is not the one who knocks down the Big Boar, it is the one who effectively slams him when he is already falling or lying down. Long wars are ruinous for them and very... They will drastically unbalance their economy of a sort of high-tech assembly shop. But to rip off your own piece to the heap - they know how to do this and this is most likely what you should expect from them.
  6. -4
    25 November 2023 05: 34
    Clear.
    It is clear that without metal, the Japanese will not build a fleet.
    1. +6
      25 November 2023 05: 42
      Quote: Gnefredov
      It is clear that without metal, the Japanese will not build a fleet.

      And what do the Russian bourgeoisie need, who will sell their own mother for a penny and rape a mosquito’s sting for a ruble?
      There are so many collection points for scrap metal in the Far East...
    2. +2
      25 November 2023 12: 17
      Quote: Gnefredov
      Clear.
      It is clear that without metal, the Japanese will not build a fleet.

      How many cars are produced in Japan?
    3. +5
      25 November 2023 15: 44
      Quote: Gnefredov
      Clear.
      It is clear that without metal, the Japanese will not build a fleet.

      Very funny laughing Japan ranks 3rd in terms of tonnage of ships produced in the world. They built 17% of the world fleet launched in 2022, which is 38 times more than the Russian Federation built.
    4. 0
      3 January 2024 14: 10
      Japan is still one of the leaders in world shipbuilding. For tankers, bulk carriers, etc. do they find metal?
  7. -1
    25 November 2023 06: 18
    Quote: ROSS 42
    Quote: Gnefredov
    It is clear that without metal, the Japanese will not build a fleet.

    And what do the Russian bourgeoisie need, who will sell their own mother for a penny and rape a mosquito’s sting for a ruble?
    There are so many collection points for scrap metal in the Far East...

    No need to talk about the “Russian bourgeoisie”... As I understand, you are not in the subject.
    Everything is not exactly in order, but from the Far East and from the European part of Russia there is normal “iron” flowing into the smelter. If they don’t voice this on Channel One, then I certainly don’t need it.

    PS You too, don’t fume, don’t wave your fists.
  8. +5
    25 November 2023 07: 35
    Quote: Gnefredov
    Clear.
    It is clear that without metal, the Japanese will not build a fleet.

    They will build it, they will build it.
    For some reason, they build cars and trucks and engines for them, and it turns out better than ours.
    We still can’t get diesel in our UAZ.
    No hatred.
  9. -1
    25 November 2023 10: 21
    God willing, they will go to the same place where their predecessors went - to the bottom.
    1. +1
      25 November 2023 15: 07
      Only the Americans sent them to the bottom!
  10. -2
    25 November 2023 11: 03
    Reducing the crew is a logical decision. The most massive commercial ships of our time: bulk carriers, tankers and container ships with a displacement of 50 thousand tons have a crew of 20 people (over 30-40 years the crew has been reduced by 2 times), who not only operate the ship and accept cargo, but also carry out maintenance and ongoing repairs - Unlike military ships, commercial ships are always on the ocean.

    Let's consider how much each additional crew member costs the budget more than 2 million rubles. in year:
    -average salary for a crew member: 70 thousand rubles. per month “on hand” + 13% personal income tax;
    -349 thousand rub. military mortgage contributions;
    -480 thousand rub. pension payments taking into account the average pension of 40 thousand rubles. (taking into account the fact that military personnel retire 2 times faster without preferential length of service).
    -medical expenses, insurance payments

    The crew of the frigate "Admiral Gorshkov" is 180 people, "Mogami" is 90 people, additional costs for the crew: 180 million rubles, in case of operation for 50 years, additional costs: 9 billion rubles.
    1. +4
      25 November 2023 13: 57
      Reducing the crew is probably a good thing. But who will replace the missing hands when it is necessary to fight for the survivability of the ship? The mortgage will come and put a band-aid on the hole?)))
      1. +6
        25 November 2023 15: 08
        Did 424 crew members help the cruiser Moscow in the fight for survivability?
        1. 0
          25 November 2023 22: 45
          Quote: Ivan Seversky
          Did 424 crew members help the cruiser Moscow in the fight for survivability?

          Well, yes, if the cruiser was not helped, then now we need to completely cancel the fight for survivability. Extra money for all sorts of stupid pumps and fire extinguishing systems. But how much money we save - profit!
          1. 0
            3 January 2024 14: 13
            You can finally cancel the cruisers. Right now there are many experts (usually with land-based aircraft) who say that the time of large ships has passed and everything that is larger in displacement than the Buyans and Karakurts is the last century))
      2. 0
        25 November 2023 17: 33
        Quote: TermNachTER
        Reducing the crew is probably a good thing.

        Yes, why is it “possible”? Remember what crews there were during WWII, WWII, the Cold War and now - a constant reduction in crew. Can we say that a modern destroyer is more helpless than a similar ship of the previous/before last generation? Hardly. Now machines are replacing people. Automatic fire extinguishing systems, automatic blocking of the room where a leak is detected, etc.... Twenty people with plasters and stops are no longer needed. The next scientific and technological revolution in military affairs is coming, which will ultimately minimize the participation of people on the battlefield...
        1. 0
          26 November 2023 12: 49
          Quote: Doccor18
          automatic blocking of the room where a leak is detected, etc.... Twenty people with plasters and stops are no longer needed

          Well, yes, why save the compartment from flooding if you can isolate it - let the ship remain without weapons/propulsion/anything else important, but it won’t sink...
          What if the affected compartment fills with water, and the watertight bulkheads are damaged by fragments of an enemy warhead? What if the compartment is de-energized? Will automatic systems with faith in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit work? Battle damage (yes, the same fragment) that broke the cable to the artillery tower there, or will a robot vacuum cleaner come and repair something else?
      3. 0
        27 November 2023 02: 11
        Survivability and modern warships are incompatible things
    2. 0
      25 November 2023 15: 35
      You cannot compare civilian ships with warships. Naturally, a warship will always have a larger crew, and it is necessary to operate and maintain weapons. They have less personnel in warheads 2, 4, 5, 7. We’ll see how many years the ships will last. 50 years is a challenge.
  11. +3
    25 November 2023 14: 14
    And judging by the comments, the “glass makers of the continents” have not gone away, they live in their own little world with pink ponies. Everything is in their eyes, and they: “God’s dew”)
  12. +2
    25 November 2023 16: 42
    somehow we learned how to make beautiful stealth ships! First Zumwalt, and now this Mogami - I admire the beveled sides...
  13. +4
    25 November 2023 16: 49
    Meanwhile, our Pacific fleet will soon become like a museum, the age of some ships is already prohibitive, and there are problems with equipment... It’s also bad that the planned repairs of many ships were not carried out in the required time frame, and now the repairs of some ships take longer than its construction, and in connection with the Northern Military District there are fears that even less money will be given to the fleet than before, I personally hope that this certainly will not happen
  14. -1
    25 November 2023 16: 50
    The weapons on this ship are too weak and outdated.
    1. 0
      25 November 2023 17: 02
      They won’t stop, they’ll finish this series of frigates and start a new one, plus their beloved ally who bombed them in 45, we won’t be able to keep up with them, but we can build new military bases in the Kuril Islands and expand the old ones, it was said even during the sailing fleet - in in battle, a cannon on the shore is worth two on a ship, and then, unlike a ship, a base on an island is on duty all year round,
      1. +1
        25 November 2023 17: 39
        Quote: agond
        Even during the sailing fleet it was said that in battle a cannon on the shore is worth two on a ship, and then, unlike a ship, a base on an island is on duty all year round,

        Fyodor Ushakov has repeatedly refuted this thesis...
  15. -2
    25 November 2023 18: 26
    Quote: Dutchman Michel
    And if this is prevented in interaction with nuclear weapons,

    Do you still believe that our leadership is not “pissed”?
  16. +5
    25 November 2023 22: 59
    To those who laugh at Japanese ships, relying on our atomic weapons.

    The Japanese had their own small atomic program back during WWII. Therefore, Japanese scientists immediately realized what they were hit with in 1945 and offered to surrender. After this, they continued their theoretical research. By 1968, they had theoretically developed powerful and compact nuclear charges at the level of the French “jerboas”, and then thermonuclear weapons. At the same time, they achieved great success in rocket science. Back in the late 60s, Japan launched the first space rocket, and nowadays it flies to asteroids on its own. Now, if there is a political decision, Japan will be able to create atomic weapons in a period of 6 to 12 months. And then they and we will have bombing, and only they will have a powerful fleet in the theater of operations.
  17. 0
    25 November 2023 23: 53
    Quote: Alien From
    What can I say, envy and resentment are simply gnawing sad

    I don’t envy you at all...... These are just veiled desires out loud.... I would like to have my own big program for military shipbuilding..... So that they build.... In terms of building more, better and faster))))
  18. 0
    25 November 2023 23: 56
    Quote: Ivan Seversky
    Did 424 crew members help the cruiser Moscow in the fight for survivability?

    it’s situational...sometimes it will help save the ship, sometimes it won’t help.....the same as with the automation of fire safety systems.....it’s situational.....either it will work at 150 or it will burn/sink in a blue flame. .... and there are examples of this not only in our country but also in mattresses and Brits
  19. -2
    26 November 2023 08: 01
    And I said, the children of Amaterasu will return the favor to the Yusovites, starting with Matthew Perry. The United States will still envy the dead when the samurai decide - The time has come, banzai!
    1. -1
      22 January 2024 23: 04
      Are the Japanese related to Matthew Perry?
  20. -1
    26 November 2023 18: 30
    The Russian Defense Ministry is waiting for another Tsushima
    1. +2
      27 November 2023 18: 08
      Do you really care? You don’t have a fleet at the World Cup and never will!
  21. 0
    27 November 2023 18: 06
    "Noshiro" - light cruiser,

    It seems like it should be pronounced: “Noshiro”?
    1. 0
      3 January 2024 14: 17
      In the Japanese language, there is finally a problem with this “sh” and “s” for the Russian ear) They have some strange pronunciation there, something between sh and s, which I could not pronounce. But it’s better to pronounce “s”, it’s closer to the original.
  22. 0
    9 January 2024 10: 18
    What a small country - a population of 120 million and an area larger than Germany!

    P.S. Am I the only one who finds it annoying to use the word “missions” to describe tasks in the military and space spheres? Thinking begins with terminology. And we have our own, original, without the use of imported terms in an excessive manner.
  23. +1
    22 January 2024 23: 03
    Germany doesn’t seem to be considered a small country, but Japan is larger than Germany