Trends and numbers: losses of Ukrainian tanks

Tanks "Stronghold" of one of the Ukrainian formations. Photo of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine

Until recently, Ukraine had a large fleet of armored vehicles, incl. significant numbers of tanks. However, the political adventures of the Kyiv regime led to the beginning of its forced demilitarization by force. To date, the Russian army has destroyed or damaged a significant part of Ukrainian tanks, and it is not possible to make up for the losses with foreign equipment.

Tanks in service

Until the beginning of 2022, the tank units of the Ukrainian army were almost entirely equipped with old Soviet-made combat vehicles. On its own and with the help of foreign partners, Ukraine was able to modernize a certain amount of this equipment, and the production of new tanks was minimal and virtually invisible throughout the entire fleet.

According to The Military Balance directory for 2022, before the start of demilitarization, there were 858 tanks in combat units of Ukraine. These were mainly vehicles of the T-64 family. The T-64BV MBT in its original configuration was considered the most widespread - 385 units. There were also 235 T-64BV, modernized according to one of the latest projects. The number of T-64BM Bulat was estimated at 100 units. The total number of T-72 of all versions is approx. 130 units In addition, only 5 advertised T-84 Oplot tanks were in service.

Ukraine also had significant reserves. At the storage bases, according to The Military Balance, there were more than 1100 tanks of various models, starting with the T-55. The most popular ones were T-64 and T-72 of various modifications - 578 and 500 units. respectively. At a minimum, some of the equipment from the reserve could, if necessary, return to service after a little preparation or after repair. It cannot be ruled out that the actual size of the reserves was higher than the estimates of the foreign publication.

Ukrainian T-72M MBTs received in the spring of 2022 from the Czech Republic. Photo Telegram / Dambiev

foreign aid

Almost immediately after the start of demilitarization, the Kiev regime turned to foreign countries with a request for the supply of tanks and other weapons. First of all, he wanted to receive the advertised NATO-style equipment, but such assistance began with equipment of Soviet projects.

At the beginning of April 2022, the Czech Republic announced the transfer of 40 armored vehicles to Ukraine, incl. a number of T-72 tanks of an old modification. Within a few weeks, this equipment was delivered to Ukrainian territory and accepted by the Kyiv regime.

During the same period, Poland began shipping its tanks. At the first stage, it transferred 200-230 T-72M MBTs to Ukraine. Then deliveries of PT-91 products began in quantities of up to 90 units. As a result of these processes, the Polish army became one of the main “donors” of Ukrainian formations in the field of armored vehicles.

The desire of the Kyiv regime to receive NATO-style tanks was fulfilled only at the beginning of 2023. NATO countries decided to supply combat vehicles of several current models and modifications. By the beginning of spring, the first MBTs under this plan were delivered to Ukraine, and subsequently new batches of equipment were transferred.

Polish T-72s for Ukraine during transportation. Photo Telegram / Dambiev

Leopard 2 tanks made in Germany were the first to reach Ukraine. They were provided by Germany, Spain, Canada, Poland, Portugal, Sweden and other countries. In total, the Kyiv regime was promised more than 120 MBTs and a number of standardized engineering vehicles. At a minimum, most of these promises have already been fulfilled, and the equipment has been delivered to Ukrainian territory.

In January, the UK expressed its readiness to provide Challenger 2 tanks from its army fleet. In the spring, 14 vehicles of this type were sent to Ukraine. New deliveries are not yet planned, but are not excluded.

At the beginning of the year, the United States promised its MBTs. After lengthy discussions, they expressed their willingness to provide 31 M1 Abrams tanks with one of the older modifications. Delivery took place only a few weeks ago. Whether it is possible to ship new batches of Abrams has not yet been clarified.

Despite all efforts, Ukrainian forces continue to lose armored vehicles, and foreign partners are trying to find ways to help them. The possibility of continuing deliveries of Leopard-2 or other equipment is being considered. In addition, outdated Leopard 1 vehicles with dubious combat qualities are being purchased and prepared for delivery.

One of the Swedish Strv 122 / Leopard 2 in Ukraine, summer 2023. Photo Telegram / BMPD

Thus, the Kiev regime had access to a large number of tanks of different models. The total number of MBTs in combat units, in reserve and in storage, as well as in deliveries from third countries, exceeded 2,5 thousand. At the same time, supplies of equipment from abroad may continue, although their quantitative and qualitative indicators will worsen.

Demilitarization process

Tanks are capable of solving a wide range of combat missions and are the main striking force of ground forces, which is why special attention is paid to their detection and destruction. The current process of forced demilitarization of Ukraine fully follows this rule - the Russian army is knocking out the enemy’s armored potential with all available means.

Since February 2022, significant progress has been made in this matter. According to our Ministry of Defense, more than 13,3 thousand enemy tanks and other armored combat vehicles have been destroyed to date. Unfortunately, the number of affected MBTs is not specified. However, other sources allow us to supplement these data and draw conclusions.

According to the well-known Lost Armor service, from the beginning of the Special Operation to the present time, about 460 Ukrainian tanks have been destroyed. Moreover, the enemy’s actual losses should be even higher. The fact is that the Lost Armor database includes only completely destroyed MBTs, the loss of which is confirmed by photo or video materials. Not all enemy losses are sufficiently documented. In addition, the resource mentions about fifty tanks taken by our army as trophies.

Results of the failed Ukrainian offensive, June 2023. Photo by the Russian Ministry of Defense

Interesting information is also coming from foreign sources. Thus, the English-language resource Oryx, known for its bias, believes that Ukraine lost 455 tanks, another 56 were damaged, 38 were abandoned, and 141 became a trophy. Considering the specifics of Oryx and its methods of counting, it can be assumed that these “statistics” also do not reflect the real state of affairs. The resource follows the Western agenda and embellishes the position of the Ukrainian side, reducing its losses.

The bulk of Ukrainian losses are predictably made up of Soviet-style tanks, which were mainly owned by the Kyiv regime at the beginning of last year. It has also been repeatedly reported that T-72 MBTs received from Eastern European countries have been destroyed or damaged. At the beginning of the summer of 2023, foreign equipment was added to the list of losses - the first Leopards 2 and so far the only Challenger 2 were destroyed.

Ukrainian tanks are hit by all available means. For example, during the recent “counter-offensive”, entire tank units were stopped in minefields, after which they became targets for artillery, ground and aviation missile systems and various UAVs. In fact, the entire range of Russian anti-tank weapons had the opportunity to show their best side in real combat conditions.

Fatal tendencies

It is not difficult to calculate that to date, only the confirmed losses of the Ukrainian tank fleet have exceeded 50% of the number of combat units at the beginning of 2022. It should be borne in mind that the actual losses, for objective reasons, are higher than existing estimates. Obviously, this level of losses has an extremely negative impact on the overall capabilities of the Ukrainian armed forces.

Ukrainian tank moments before being hit drone-kamikaze. Photo by the Russian Ministry of Defense

Ukraine is trying to return equipment from storage to service and is receiving MBTs from abroad, and all this can reduce the share of losses in the “accumulated” number of the tank fleet. However, in this case we are talking about tens of percent of lost tanks, which also creates the most serious problems for the Kyiv regime.

Despite all the difficulties, the Ukrainian side continues to throw new armored units into battle. They predictably suffer losses in manpower and equipment, and also fail to cope with assigned combat missions. The losses of tanks of all main models continue to grow, and at the same time the strike capabilities of ground formations, which are already not endless, are being reduced.

It is clearly visible that the Ukrainian command and its foreign curators are using dubious strategies that do not give the desired results, but lead to losses. Therefore, we should expect that for the foreseeable future the enemy will continue to send tanks and other armored vehicles into battle, and the Russian army will again knock them out with all available means.

In the future, Ukraine's combat-ready tank fleet will continue to shrink. A significant part of the machines available or received from partners will be destroyed or rendered inoperable without the possibility of restoration on site or within a reasonable time. You won’t have to count on foreign help, because... foreign armies will exhaust the supplies available for transfer. And now we can imagine how all these processes will affect the combat effectiveness of Ukrainian formations as a whole and the future of the Kyiv regime.

Comments

[Vladimir_2U]

The most popular ones were T-64 and T-72 of various modifications - 578 and 500 units. respectively.

The entire confrontation between Novorossiya and Bandera was based on the fact that the Ukrainian Armed Forces only use T-64s, and all T-72s in service with the LDPR are Russian supplies!

It is not difficult to calculate that to date, only confirmed losses of the Ukrainian tank fleet have exceeded 50% of the number of combat units at the beginning of 2022.

In general, more than enough...

[Belisarius]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

The entire confrontation between Novorossiya and Bandera was based on the fact that the Ukrainian Armed Forces only use T-64s, and all T-72s in service with the LDPR are Russian supplies!

This was in 2014. Further, they officially recognized the use of the T-72, but in small quantities. Now they have rather a T-72 main tank.

[Vladimir_2U]

Quote: Belisarius

This was in 2014. Further, they officially recognized the use of the T-72, but in small quantities. Now they have rather a T-72 main tank.

This lasted almost the entire Minsk agreement...

[Belisarius]

Quote: Vladimir_2U

This lasted almost all of the Minsk agreements..

Already at the end of 2014 they were officially used. This was discussed here on Military Review.
Regarding December 2015, there is data accurate to the tank.
“Reference: at this time (December 2015 of the year) in the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the presence of 367 units. T-72 tanks, of them in good condition 132 units, 235 units. require repair, incl. with the replacement of components and assemblies. "

[cyborg]

The entire confrontation between Novorossiya and Bandera was based on the fact that the Ukrainian Armed Forces only use T-64s, and all T-72s in service with the LDPR are Russian supplies!

there we were talking about T72b3, these are only available in Russia.

[Mavrikiy]

You won’t have to count on foreign help, because... foreign armies will exhaust supplies available for transfer.

Rave. To do this, you need to fight for 10 years. The South Caucasus and Japan can supply tanks to NATO, to replace those going to Ukraine and the United States will launch their own military-industrial complex “We know that this is not an easy battle, but a hard battle!” (Malchish-Kibalchish)

[Nesvoy]

The author has an interesting logic. This means that Oryx, who keeps statistics on both sides, is biased and does not bear any objectivity and reduces the losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. It’s just our Lost Armour, which keeps statistics only on enemy losses, and “modestly” covered our losses - and this, in the author’s opinion, is the height of objectivity and credibility. Don't you think that it doesn't stink here, but just stinks of double standards?

[Blackgrifon]

Yeah :) Very “objective” Oryx and double standards :))) That is. when Oryx is once again caught for classifying the same VSRF vehicle as several - is this normal? Despite the fact that this was not the case with the Losts, and unlike the grant-grass oryx (who, in addition, is a citizen of one of the significant suppliers of weapons and weapons and military equipment to Kh-stan), the Losts are completely independent. Or, as always, for some, everything Western is better? Maybe we should stop considering ourselves inferior?

[Dimm588]

What’s the point in your statements, you are trying to fight the mills, it is obvious that quite a large part of the tanks are completely destroyed without a video. Moreover, some of them are being destroyed far behind the front line, missiles arrived and hit the warehouses, but no one will tell you that there were tanks there, maybe those 10 Challengers of which supposedly only 1 were destroyed are long gone, and the 1 survivor was sent to show , they say that there is and it was destroyed.

[Escariot]

Quote from Dimm588

What’s the point in your statements, you are trying to fight the mills, it is obvious that quite a large part of the tanks are completely destroyed without a video. Moreover, some of them are being destroyed far behind the front line, missiles arrived and hit the warehouses, but no one will tell you that there were tanks there, maybe those 10 Challengers of which supposedly only 1 were destroyed are long gone, and the 1 survivor was sent to show , they say that there is and it was destroyed.

If most of the tanks are destroyed without video, then this works both ways. Just imagine how many tanks the Russian Federation lost then, if there are so many of them with different videos and photos on Oryx.

[Workyaga]

a military secret. we are told to trust or distrust sources of information. those who have operational information use it as operational information, and definitely not as another gossip...

[Belisarius]

Funny article. Our Lostamor, which inspires confidence, estimates the enemy’s losses at 460 tanks and 50 trophies. And the bad Oryx which does not cause 493 (455+38) and 141 trophies. L is for logic
As for the rest, the real number of enemy tanks for 2022 is really about 1000. The reserves in the article are greatly exaggerated. They have been actively collected since 2014 (this can be easily seen from the images from KhTZ). Foreign supplies are estimated correctly. Unfortunately, it is not indicated that one of the main “donors” for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, after all the “gestures of goodwill” and “regroupings,” was our own army.
In general, the enemy has tanks for another year of war. Apparently they will try to carry out another major offensive operation with their help. Further, if the United States does not supply them with a couple of hundred Abrams, they will have big problems with this issue.

[bayard]

Quote: Belisarius

As for the rest, the real number of enemy tanks for 2022 is really about 1000. The reserves in the article are greatly exaggerated.

As for reserves - no matter how understated. In 2013, Yanukovych announced that the United States offered to allocate funds to Ukraine for the disposal of 4000 T-64 tanks that were in storage. You shouldn't be surprised, the numbers were consistent. Ukraine received a huge number of tanks from the three best military districts of the USSR + many armored vehicles and tanks withdrawn from Germany. Throughout the post-Soviet period, used equipment actively sold both tanks and other weapons, often reaching third or fourth place in the world in arms sales. The T-72s were the first to be sold, as they were the most in demand, and almost all of them were sold. And the main tank of the Armed Forces of Ukraine became the T-64, since it was produced in Kharkov. So in 2013, about 4000 of them had accumulated at storage bases. The United States demanded their disposal and offered money for it. Yanukovych refused, intending to process most of them into TBTR-64, the design of which was developed by Kharkov designers. And this TBTR-64 ​​was indeed considered the best and most protected armored personnel carrier in the world.
It was not possible to export the T-64; only T-72 and T-80 with a diesel engine were available. The condition of the T-64 at the storage bases was... different. I think everyone remembers the photographs with trees sprouted in the MTO. But tanks are tanks - take out one covered in moss, clean it, reassemble it, change the engine, wiring, rubber bands... return the equipment from the warehouse to the tank and voila - a combat unit.
Since 2014, quite a few of them have been taken into storage, restored, and many have been lost, incl. trophies for the LDNR. But still, the T-64 remained in storage as of 24.02.2022/XNUMX/XNUMX. there is still quite a lot. Since the end of last year, they even began to be exported to the Czech Republic and Poland for restoration, repair and return to service. After the strikes on KhTZ.
And the calculations of Soviet-made tanks received by the Armed Forces of Ukraine do not take into account those tanks and armored vehicles that the US and British intelligence services around the world assembled for them. Some “Ukrainian philanthropists” also collected it, buying it even from private museums and collectors. Therefore, open sources about the supply of weapons and equipment to the Armed Forces of Ukraine are inaccurate, incomplete and definitely underestimated.
As are the losses suffered by the Ukrainian Armed Forces in tanks.
Just as we do not take into account (as a rule) a very considerable number of trophies (including tanks) abandoned during “regroupings” from near Kyiv, Kharkov, Izyum, etc.
And yet, the losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in tanks and other armored vehicles are enormous. And most importantly, the crew usually dies along with the tanks. That is, the quality of drugs is constantly falling.

Quote: Belisarius

In general, the enemy has tanks for another year of war. Apparently they will try to carry out another major offensive operation with their help.

Yes, they can try even before the second coming of “the Most Holy Schickelgruber,” but the chances are the same - NO.

Quote: Belisarius

Further, if the United States does not supply them with a couple of hundred Abrams

How can American heavy tanks with narrow rubberized tracks help the fascists on soft black soils? They will immediately sit on their bellies in the field. After all, they won’t even drive onto a very gentle hill - they will slip and turn over on their side... Or they will drown in a puddle... Well, Western tanks have no advantage over Russian-Soviet tanks, neither in firepower nor in security. But our cross-country ability, mobility (this is especially important on our soils) and ease of maintenance/repair/operation are an order of magnitude higher. And our protection in all projections except the forehead (approximate parity here) is better - 60 mm. side rolled armor against 35 - 40 mm. at "Leo-2" and "Abram". Our dynamic protection is also better... But Abram and Leo-2 usually don’t have it at all.
The fuse is tired of the used one, he sees that the used one is losing. And despite the fact that the RF Armed Forces are in no hurry, all specialists can already see that no later than the end of summer/autumn of next year, the used equipment will be finally finished. Military methods on the battlefield.
And the F-16 will not be saved.
That’s why there was talk about the need for a “truce,” and people started talking about “peace in exchange for territory.” But they are offering Russia what it already owns? And what kind of agreement can there be with those who neither keep their word nor comply with contracts?
Everything will be decided exclusively ON THE BATTLEFIELD.
Decisive and Final Victory.
And in the USA next year there are elections.

[Belisarius]

Quote: bayard

Everything will be decided exclusively ON THE BATTLEFIELD.
Decisive and Final Victory.

Dear bayard, you have written a lot of things with some of your particular arguments, I agree, but not with some, but if I respond to each of your points it will turn out to be an unrealistic sheet
As for the main thing, I really like your optimistic attitude and I would like to share it and would not like to upset you, but alas, I do not share it at all.
The fact is that winning criteria It is determined not by you and me, but by the authorities of the Russian Federation. For them, this is an agreement with Ukraine (and through it with the West) on terms that suit them. You can find out about these conditions by referring to the Minsk-Istanbul agreements and subsequent statements by the leadership of the Russian Federation. They, from my point of view, in themselves are a defeat for Russia.
However, the trouble is that this peace agreement (which will be a victory for the Russian authorities) now looks like an unattainable fantasy. So, excuse me, but there will be no decisive or final or any victory at all.
However, I will be glad to be wrong and rejoice with you.

[Dimm588]

Here, as with Azerbaijan, appetite comes with eating, so Ukraine will be cut up quite significantly. Ukraine is already too weak, they will be asked to give this to Russia and they will give it, and then they will be asked to do more. When a lion is hungry, he eats.

[bayard]

Quote: Belisarius

The criteria for victory are determined not by you and me, but by the authorities of the Russian Federation. For them, this is an agreement with Ukraine (and through it with the West) on terms that suit them. You can find out about these conditions by referring to the Minsk-Istanbul agreements

This situation reflected the reality at the time of March 2022, and it remained true until the fall of last year. But a lot has changed since then. For people who think in money, investments made in war (and they are very considerable) should bring results. Because the investments have already been made (and are ongoing), but the results are still years away. So the war becomes like a mother to the towers.
And even after they were thrown very rudely and insultingly (the head of the CIA, the US administration and even ... the 95th quarter ) and almost led to the defeat of the Small Army, which no one had prepared for the War... forced to draw certain conclusions and make very serious and radical decisions. The main conclusion is that you cannot negotiate with the West. Believing words and signed documents is unacceptable. Any agreements with them are possible only from a position of strength, forcing them to fulfill the signed agreements. Therefore, defeat will be inflicted on the battlefield, clearly and demonstratively indicating Whose Truth is in Power. The territorial integrity of Russia must be restored in full, and the more the West prevents this, the more fully Russia will restore its territorial integrity. Relying on the Big Army and protecting one's interests by all available measures, including all types of military-political coercion, including nuclear.
All agreements with the United States and the West lose relevance and legitimacy - the West does not comply with them. This means we are free from all frames.
The United States cannot build its own new SSBNs? Not enough capacity?
Every year the Russian Federation delivers to the Navy one SSBN and one multi-purpose Yasen-M.
The United States does not have combat-ready ICBMs, and they still haven’t invented anything to replace the Minutemen?
The Russian Federation has no problems with the production of Yars and Sarmatovs; a new ICBM in the weight category of Yars and MRBMs is on the way. So into the firebox of the New START “framework”, especially since the strategic nuclear forces and in general the nuclear weapons of England, France, etc. are not taken into account in it. The size of Russia's nuclear potential must correspond to the degree of threats and the level of tasks of our Armed Forces. Moreover, the United States conducted a nuclear test, passing it off as some kind of “chemical explosion with the release of radioactive materials.” We also have enterprising chemists, they also can’t wait to blow something up - to conduct a full cycle of tests of new nuclear warheads. And the USA gave us a free hand.
They agree either with the loser or in case of mutual trust. None of these conditions are observed on the horizon.

And do not overestimate the role of offshore business in the Russian Federation. England and the USA showed a very interesting example of determining the degree of legitimacy of these capitals, assets and businesses. Real capital creates its own security system in the form of states, armies and special services. And offshore... these are impostors who broke the rules.

Now there are actually some consultations going on about untying the knot in the Northern Black Sea region. And there is only one condition, upon fulfillment of which Russia can agree to an agreement - the surrender by the West of the entire territory occupied by them used and recognition of it as a legal part of the United Historical Russia. This is a matter of our security and no compromises are acceptable here.

Quote: Belisarius

there will be neither decisive nor final nor any victory at all.

This means that the war will continue, the United States will not be able to concentrate on China, and in 5 years it will be too late for them to flutter. They have, fortunately, only a year and a half left to switch all their efforts to China. And they can only buy our neutrality with one thing.
And the United States has very little time left to make the right decision.

[Escariot]

How can American heavy tanks with narrow rubberized tracks help the fascists on soft black soils? They will immediately sit on their bellies in the field. After all, they won’t even drive up a very gentle hill - they will slip and turn over on their side... Or they will drown in a puddle... Well, Western tanks have no advantage over Russian-Soviet ones

Firstly, there is such an indicator as pressure per centimeter of soil. And according to this, Western tanks are not much worse than Soviet equipment.
Secondly, the Soviet tank is different from the Soviet tank. And in mud, the same T-64 rows better than the T-72 due to the characteristics of the chassis. The T-64 chassis has its drawbacks, for example, a tank can take off its shoes if it hits a tree stump, or it has a shorter lifespan, but in terms of cross-country ability, the standard T-72 suspension with rubber-coated rollers is worse.
Thirdly, there is also a power indicator. A tank may simply not be able to plow through the mud in black soil. And the T-72 engine, which is the next iteration of the B-2, is actually rather weak.

[Repellent]

Quote from Escariot

The T-64 chassis has its drawbacks, for example, a tank can take off its shoes from hitting a tree stump, or it has a shorter lifespan, but in terms of cross-country ability the standard T-72 chassis with rubber-lined rollers is worse

Hey, slow down. Hodovka

Looks like someone here is honing the next "Gridasov"

[Escariot]

Quote: Repellent

Quote from Escariot

The T-64 chassis has its drawbacks, for example, a tank can take off its shoes from hitting a tree stump, or it has a shorter lifespan, but in terms of cross-country ability the standard T-72 chassis with rubber-lined rollers is worse

Hey, slow down. Hodovka

Looks like someone here is honing the next "Gridasov"

I have no idea what you're talking about

[futurohunter]

Escariot
Yeah, the ride on the T-72 is worse than the T-64, right now! Why then did they use rollers of larger diameter on the T-72, which actually became a “work on the mistakes of the T-64”?
Rather, the T-64 has more suspension travel due to small rollers, it shakes less on uneven surfaces, but large rollers have better cross-country ability in any case. And also, if the tank “takes off its shoes” and loses its track, then the T-64 will get hopelessly stuck in the mud, and even with a tow you can’t pull it out, but the T-72, moreover, can be pulled out; it can even stretch for some distance along a dry country road drive without one caterpillar. The T-64 has an unsuccessful automatic loader. Firstly, due to its design, it is impossible to get into the control compartment from the combat compartment and vice versa. Secondly, in the T-64, the shells in the ammunition rack are located vertically and are more vulnerable to penetration of armor than in the T-72/90. In the end, the T-64, even the BM, is an old tank. "Bulat" did not become much better after modernization, and all its shortcomings remained. T-72B3M, T-90 and T-80 have greatly advanced. By the way, for some reason the author does not mention the Ukrainian T-80s. Yes, they are somehow not visible on the battlefields, but they must remain, and sooner or later they will also go into battle

[Mamin-Sibiryak]

About Western shitty tanks - thanks to the author, I reassured him

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Belisarius

Funny article.

This is not a funny article.

Quote: Belisarius

Our Lostamor, which inspires confidence, estimates the enemy’s losses at 460 tanks and 50 trophies. And the bad Oryx which does not cause 493 (455+38) and 141 trophies. L is for logic

Don't say words whose meaning you don't understand.
The article says in plain Russian that

The fact is that the Lost Armor database includes only completely destroyed MBTs, the loss of which is confirmed by photo or video materials. Not all enemy losses are sufficiently documented

.
That is, the real losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces are much higher than those of Lostarmor and Oryx

[Belisarius]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Don't say words whose meaning you don't understand.
The article says in plain Russian that

Rudeness, for which you were not given any grounds, only shows the weakness of your own arguments.
Let me explain. This is the simplest logic. Both Lostamor and Oryx consider completely destroyed equipment and equipment that became trophies. These are total deadweight losses.
The author says that according to Lostamor these losses are 510 (460+50), according to Oryx -622 (455+38+ 141).
But at the same time, according to the author, Oryx is “non-objective”. That is, it turns out that the biased and pro-Western Oryx estimates the enemy’s losses above than our Lostamor. This creates a comical effect. The author refutes himself.
At the same time, Oryx is indeed pro-Western and biased, but the author’s arguments in this article do not prove this at all.
The reason for the author’s dissatisfaction with Oryx is also quite transparent - they also count our losses (unlike Lostamor) and they are very great.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

That is, the real losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces are much higher than those of Lostarmor and Oryx

Of course, no one argues with this. However, this specifically applies to Lostamor and Oryx. Based on this fact, one cannot conclude at all that Oryx is biased. And by the way, this also applies to real losses of the Russian Armed Forces. They are higher than recorded photos and videos.
If you are interested in the real state of affairs, then the small numbers of enemy losses (for both Lostamor and Oryx), in addition to the factor that real losses are always higher than recorded ones, are also determined by the fact that the RF Armed Forces initially had a rule not to publicly disclose enemy losses and With fixation itself, we are worse than the enemy.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Belisarius

Rudeness, for which you were not given any grounds, only shows the weakness of your own arguments.

You are being rude to the author. I'm being rude to you. Everything is in balance.

Quote: Belisarius

Let me explain. This is the simplest logic. Both Lostamor and Oryx consider completely destroyed equipment and equipment that became trophies. These are total deadweight losses.
The author says that according to Lostamor these losses are 510 (460+50), according to Oryx -622 (455+38+ 141).
But at the same time, according to the author, Oryx is “non-objective”. That is, it turns out that the biased and pro-Western Oryx estimates the enemy’s losses higher than our Lostamor. This creates a comical effect. The author refutes himself.

(heavy sigh) The author is NOT refuting himself. You couldn’t understand this even after explanations.

Quote: Belisarius

At the same time, Oryx is indeed pro-Western and biased, but the author’s arguments in this article do not prove this at all.

Try reading this particular passage again

The fact is that only completely destroyed MBTs are included in the Lost Armor database, the loss of which is confirmed by photo or video materials. Not all enemy losses are sufficiently documented

That is, the author directly points out that lostarmor a priori cannot and does not pretend to record the destruction of all truly destroyed Ukrainian Armed Forces tanks. Oryx, according to the author, is trying to imagine the complete losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in tanks. And the author writes that

Considering the specifics of Oryx and its methods of counting, it can be assumed that these “statistics” also do not reflect the real state of affairs. The resource follows the Western agenda and embellishes the position of the Ukrainian side, reducing its losses.

That is, the author directly points out that the Losstarmor data is incomplete due to too strict accounting methods, and the Oryx data is due to a pro-Western orientation, but in fact, the losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are significantly higher. And the fact that the Ukrainian Armed Forces lost more tanks at Oryx than at Lostarmor does not refute the author’s idea in any way and does not make it comical.

[Nesvoy]

For Oryx, statistics on the percentage of repeated and erroneous additions have long been corrected. The highest mass percentage of 14% was detected in wheeled vehicles. This is the highest percentage for a moment! For other categories the percentage is less than 10.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote from Nesvoy

For Oryx, statistics on the percentage of repeated and erroneous additions have long been corrected. The highest mass percentage of 14% was detected in wheeled vehicles

Funny. Especially when I looked at the “confirmations” of our technology. House, a column of black smoke nearby. Signature - destroyed T-90 True, I still didn’t understand what exactly the author of the photo identified as a tank - a house or smoke

[Escariot]

If the author already mentioned the “English-language resource Oryx, known for its bias,” then perhaps one should add another source of replenishment of Ukraine’s tanks, namely trophies, of which there were 550 on this “English-language resource known for its bias.”

[bayard]

Quote from Escariot

We should probably add another source of replenishment for Ukraine’s tanks, namely trophies, of which 550 were counted on this “famous for its biased English-language resource.”

Well, since the Ukrainian Armed Forces are so rich in trophies, then why do they need supplies from sponsors? They took almost more trophies than they lost in battles! After all, this is such a profitable business. And they keep begging, their generals howl that they have nothing to fight with... How can this be? So many tanks were collected as trophies, but to fight nothing.
It's like with German pilots in WWII. Look at their accounts of downed planes, and at HOW MANY aces they had... And how did they lose with such supermen? How, since the beginning of 1944, was air supremacy COMPLETELY ceded?
So these fascists have continuous victories and “counter-attacks”, they mow down millions of “orcs” and “Buryats”, the Chechens, according to reports, were completely destroyed twice... And the sponsors say that defeat on the battlefield for the Armed Forces of Ukraine is already has become a fact. Paradoxes of Sumerian consciousness.

[Escariot]

Quote: bayard

Quote from Escariot

We should probably add another source of replenishment for Ukraine’s tanks, namely trophies, of which 550 were counted on this “famous for its biased English-language resource.”

Well, since the Ukrainian Armed Forces are so rich in trophies, then why do they need supplies from sponsors? They took almost more trophies than they lost in battles! After all, this is such a profitable business. And they keep begging, their generals howl that they have nothing to fight with... How can this be? So many tanks were collected as trophies, but to fight nothing.
It's like with German pilots in WWII. Look at their accounts of downed planes, and at HOW MANY aces they had... And how did they lose with such supermen? How, since the beginning of 1944, was air supremacy COMPLETELY ceded?
So these fascists have continuous victories and “counter-attacks”, they mow down millions of “orcs” and “Buryats”, the Chechens, according to reports, were completely destroyed twice... And the sponsors say that defeat on the battlefield for the Armed Forces of Ukraine is already has become a fact. Paradoxes of Sumerian consciousness.

Before the Armed Forces of Ukraine, they had about 1000 tanks on the move for 200k soldiers. Since February last year, the number of Armed Forces of Ukraine has increased 4-5 times, and accordingly, the number of tanks should increase to staff new units. Of course, the situation is not so dramatic, but even with Western help and Lend-Lease there are not enough tanks for the staff. Plus, Western and Western-restored tanks are in better technical condition than the Koi battle tanks fought for a year and a half. And here it’s not even a matter of combat damage, but of natural wear and tear. And in terms of combat characteristics, the T-72E is superior to the T-64bv due to the presence of a thermal imager and a more advanced control system.
Well, about the “death of a million Buryats” and other nonsense - why are you writing this to ME? I didn't write anything like that. Instead of discussing the tank topic, are you going into demagoguery? I'm not interested

[bayard]

Quote from Escariot

Instead of discussing the tank topic, are you going into demagoguery? I'm not interested

So what are you discussing?
Regarding the tank topic, used ones actually had about 2014 T-4000s of various modifications in storage as of February 64, but the losses occurred in 2014 - 2015. and later (in much smaller volumes) together with trophies for the LDPR amounted to about 500 pieces. in aggregate. This roughly corresponded to the number of tanks in combat units at the time of the coup. So there are 1000 tanks in the Armed Forces of Ukraine as of 24.02.2022/4000/1,5. , this is already (relatively speaking, of course, the composition there is somewhat more complicated) from among those same 64 in storage. Over the course of XNUMX+ years, another number of tanks were returned to service from storage and lost. You need to understand that the ability to return the T-XNUMXBV to service depends on the availability of engines, and here strangers will not be suitable - the MTO is too compact. But the reserves of such engines and the possibilities for their production during the war, in Kharkov, which even a long-range MLRS can reach, are very limited.
There is another serious problem with the return of these tanks to service - the availability of serviceable guns for them. The spent barrels were exchanged for those removed from tanks in storage for many years, so the supplies were running out/running out. After all, after so many years of SUCH storage, corrosion has done its job and not every weapon can be restored. Thus, the possibilities for returning the T-64 to service are limited not only by the availability of engines, but also by tank guns. That is why it was decided to supply Western-made tanks... and buy all Soviet-made weapons and ammunition around the world. Therefore, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have more and more T-72s bought around the world, as well as Leo-1s, because they are cheaper, are in stock and have shells for them.
About the prospects for the Armed Forces of Ukraine?
They are absolutely joyless. The quality of armored vehicles supplied to the Armed Forces of Ukraine will decrease (they will come from old stocks), and the quality of armored vehicles of the Russian Armed Forces is constantly growing. Their number is also growing. This year, the industry will supply the Russian Armed Forces with at least 1500 new and modernized tanks (of which about 300 are modernized T-62M). In addition, several hundred tanks are delivered from storage bases after restoration, but without modernization. Next year these figures will be much higher. Moreover, Omsktransmash is starting to build T-80 tanks from scratch. They will also be a plus. It looks like the "Armata" will also go into production, although I am against launching them into production right now. But since the assembly line and the entire chain of cooperation have been prepared, then apparently they too will go into production in addition to this year’s figures.
So the battle formations are already predominantly T-90M, T-72B3M and T-80BVM tanks. Their number is growing, as is the total number of the SVO grouping.

Quote from Escariot

I'm not interested

To each his own .

[Escariot]

Quote: bayard

Quote from Escariot

Instead of discussing the tank topic, are you going into demagoguery? I'm not interested

So what are you discussing?
Regarding the tank topic, used ones actually had about 2014 T-4000s of various modifications in storage as of February 64, but the losses occurred in 2014 - 2015. and later (in much smaller volumes) together with trophies for the LDPR amounted to about 500 pieces. in aggregate. This roughly corresponded to the number of tanks in combat units at the time of the coup. So there are 1000 tanks in the Armed Forces of Ukraine as of 24.02.2022/4000/1,5. , this is already (relatively speaking, of course, the composition there is somewhat more complicated) from among those same 64 in storage. Over the course of XNUMX+ years, another number of tanks were returned to service from storage and lost. You need to understand that the ability to return the T-XNUMXBV to service depends on the availability of engines, and here strangers will not be suitable - the MTO is too compact. But the reserves of such engines and the possibilities for their production during the war, in Kharkov, which even a long-range MLRS can reach, are very limited.
There is another serious problem with the return of these tanks to service - the availability of serviceable guns for them. The spent barrels were exchanged for those removed from tanks in storage for many years, so the supplies were running out/running out. After all, after so many years of SUCH storage, corrosion has done its job and not every weapon can be restored. Thus, the possibilities for returning the T-64 to service are limited not only by the availability of engines, but also by tank guns. That is why it was decided to supply Western-made tanks... and buy all Soviet-made weapons and ammunition around the world. Therefore, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have more and more T-72s bought around the world, as well as Leo-1s, because they are cheaper, are in stock and have shells for them.
About the prospects for the Armed Forces of Ukraine?
They are absolutely joyless. The quality of armored vehicles supplied to the Armed Forces of Ukraine will decrease (they will come from old stocks), and the quality of armored vehicles of the Russian Armed Forces is constantly growing. Their number is also growing. This year, the industry will supply the Russian Armed Forces with at least 1500 new and modernized tanks (of which about 300 are modernized T-62M). In addition, several hundred tanks are delivered from storage bases after restoration, but without modernization. Next year these figures will be much higher. Moreover, Omsktransmash is starting to build T-80 tanks from scratch. They will also be a plus. It looks like the "Armata" will also go into production, although I am against launching them into production right now. But since the assembly line and the entire chain of cooperation have been prepared, then apparently they too will go into production in addition to this year’s figures.
So the battle formations are already predominantly T-90M, T-72B3M and T-80BVM tanks. Their number is growing, as is the total number of the SVO grouping.

Quote from Escariot

I'm not interested

To each his own .

Firstly, why are you writing about Russian tanks? Let's better discuss the topic of Ukrainians.
Secondly, just above you wrote “why don’t the Armed Forces of Ukraine have enough tanks if they have so many trophies?” It seems to me that now you have answered your own question. Even with trophies, they will be missed. The T-64 won't last long. There is practically no production (part of the production was transferred to the Czech Republic + Pakistan produces something under license), and reserves are finite. This is the last T-64 war. Accordingly, we have to switch to the T-72, of which there are many around the world. The question is how many T-72s are there in the west to supply the Ukrainian Armed Forces? The level of recorded losses is approximately 200-300 vehicles per year. Poland also has more than 200 RT-91s. Accordingly, only with them can the West cover the annual losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. But Poland, the Czech Republic and Bulgaria are slowly restoring old T-72s from their stocks. So in the near future the number of tanks in the Armed Forces of Ukraine is unlikely to decrease significantly. Moreover, the Czech T-72 is equipped with more advanced electronics than the linear T-64bv. So there will likely be an improvement in quality here.

[bayard]

Quote from Escariot

Firstly, why are you writing about Russian tanks? Let's better discuss the topic of Ukrainians.

Ukrainian and NATO tanks have to fight Russian tanks, and everything is learned by comparison. Just compare the quality indicators of the T-64BV and T-72M\RT-91 and compare them with the T-90M, T-72B3M and T-80BVM. And when both quality and quantity are incomparably higher in the Russian Federation, this gap grows.

Quote from Escariot

This is the last T-64 war. Accordingly, we have to switch to the T-72, of which there are many around the world. The question is how many T-72s are there in the west to supply the Ukrainian Armed Forces?

That's right, but who will pay for everything?
Europe? Will it pull? With the collapsed economy of Germany (and everyone else), with the beginning of a racial Civil War in the EU countries, with internal splits in NATO and the EU?
USA? There will be elections next year and the government will change. There, the annual federal budget deficit is already up to $1,5 trillion. At whose expense will the banquet be held in Ukraine?
In addition, the United States and the EU have a new problem and a Black Hole of expenses - Israel. They will now have to not only arm and provide for Israel’s military needs, but essentially support their entire economy and social sphere. There is a war there - the economy is at a standstill, the territory is small and is under fire, after mobilization many industries are simply paralyzed. And although the population of Israel is 2+ times less than the population of the former one, the maintenance of this state will require much more funds. In addition, England, through its special services, is doing everything in order to organize a large regional conflict, to drag all the Arab (and not only) countries of the region into the war, pedaling the religious motives of the confrontation. Therefore, Israel will have to confront not some partisans with rifles and water pipes, but quite regular armies of large Arab states, Iran, and possibly Pakistan, Afghanistan and the entire World of Islam. England will try for this.
And where then can the Sumerians get tanks?
Or rather, at whose expense?
At the expense of the seized funds of Russia and its citizens?
And what will US investors like China say to this? Japan? Arab monarchies of the Gulf? Yes all ?? To do this would instantly and like an avalanche bring down the entire dollar system of world finance... and the Euro Zone too.

Quote from Escariot

In the near future, the number of tanks in the Armed Forces of Ukraine is unlikely to decrease significantly.

However, how are the losses made up for?
Leo-1!!
A frisky tank with almost no protection, but the target is large. Gun 105 mm.
So the replenishment is so-so. The tank is at the level of the T-62, but with worse protection.
The Armed Forces of Ukraine can, of course, pull out ancient T-55s from their own and European landfills... they are as simple as a Kalashnikov assault rifle, their restoration is simple and costs little... But how much use will they be against the T-90M?
Forget about the "Abrams", because even those that have already been put in shame will be higher than Everest. These strange fighting vehicles are not for our soils and weather. And in order to avoid shame, their use on LBS will be prohibited, just as it was prohibited in relation to the English Challengers.
So the future of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is the archaization of its tank fleet. Until the very inglorious end.

[Escariot]

Quote: bayard

Quote from Escariot

Firstly, why are you writing about Russian tanks? Let's better discuss the topic of Ukrainians.

Ukrainian and NATO tanks have to fight Russian tanks, and everything is learned by comparison. Just compare the quality indicators of the T-64BV and T-72M\RT-91 and compare them with the T-90M, T-72B3M and T-80BVM. And when both quality and quantity are incomparably higher in the Russian Federation, this gap grows.

Quote from Escariot

This is the last T-64 war. Accordingly, we have to switch to the T-72, of which there are many around the world. The question is how many T-72s are there in the west to supply the Ukrainian Armed Forces?

That's right, but who will pay for everything?
Europe? Will it pull? With the collapsed economy of Germany (and everyone else), with the beginning of a racial Civil War in the EU countries, with internal splits in NATO and the EU?
USA? There will be elections next year and the government will change. There, the annual federal budget deficit is already up to $1,5 trillion. At whose expense will the banquet be held in Ukraine?
In addition, the United States and the EU have a new problem and a Black Hole of expenses - Israel. They will now have to not only arm and provide for Israel’s military needs, but essentially support their entire economy and social sphere. There is a war there - the economy is at a standstill, the territory is small and is under fire, after mobilization many industries are simply paralyzed. And although the population of Israel is 2+ times less than the population of the former one, the maintenance of this state will require much more funds. In addition, England, through its special services, is doing everything in order to organize a large regional conflict, to drag all the Arab (and not only) countries of the region into the war, pedaling the religious motives of the confrontation. Therefore, Israel will have to confront not some partisans with rifles and water pipes, but quite regular armies of large Arab states, Iran, and possibly Pakistan, Afghanistan and the entire World of Islam. England will try for this.
And where then can the Sumerians get tanks?
Or rather, at whose expense?
At the expense of the seized funds of Russia and its citizens?
And what will US investors like China say to this? Japan? Arab monarchies of the Gulf? Yes all ?? To do this would instantly and like an avalanche bring down the entire dollar system of world finance... and the Euro Zone too.

Quote from Escariot

In the near future, the number of tanks in the Armed Forces of Ukraine is unlikely to decrease significantly.

However, how are the losses made up for?
Leo-1!!
A frisky tank with almost no protection, but the target is large. Gun 105 mm.
So the replenishment is so-so. The tank is at the level of the T-62, but with worse protection.
The Armed Forces of Ukraine can, of course, pull out ancient T-55s from their own and European landfills... they are as simple as a Kalashnikov assault rifle, their restoration is simple and costs little... But how much use will they be against the T-90M?
Forget about the "Abrams", because even those that have already been put in shame will be higher than Everest. These strange fighting vehicles are not for our soils and weather. And in order to avoid shame, their use on LBS will be prohibited, just as it was prohibited in relation to the English Challengers.
So the future of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is the archaization of its tank fleet. Until the very inglorious end.

Still, let's talk about Ukrainian tanks.
The NWO costs the West less than $100 billion a year. Is it a lot or a little? The combined GDP of the US and EU is around 30 trillion dollars. 100 billion is 0.33% of GDP. Not a little. But the Russian Federation now spends up to 6% of GDP on defense. So we would have their problems.
Ukrainian T-64bv had problems with the fire control system. The Czech T-72, Polish TR-91 and German Leo-1 do not have such problems. They all have modern thermal imagers and computing systems. Even all old Ukrainian tanks are now equipped with American radio stations, not to mention the newly installed ones. So the quality of the tank fleet of the Ukrainian Armed Forces is improving.

[bayard]

Quote from Escariot

Still, let's talk about Ukrainian tanks.

That’s how it seemed to be about them.

Quote from Escariot

The NWO costs the West less than $100 billion a year.

Actually, more, and this is only direct financing of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, not to mention the costs of the NATO countries themselves to provide them. The same AWACS and RTR aviation are exhausting their resources in permanent air services. The military and logistics infrastructure is being strained, equipment and ammunition of NATO countries are being washed away.
In addition, the economies of the EU countries alone have lost $1,5 trillion during this time from their own sanctions, and entire industries are curtailing production. This is also a result.

Quote from Escariot

The Russian Federation now spends up to 6% of GDP on defense.

And these expenses go entirely to our economy, and are not transferred to offshore companies and Western securities. Thanks to this, industrial production in the Russian Federation increased by 7% this year. Is this good or bad?
All this money remains inside the economy and, through cooperation chains, revitalizes the economy. The already low unemployment has practically disappeared.

Quote from Escariot

Ukrainian T-64bv had problems with the fire control system. The Czech T-72, Polish TR-91 and German Leo-1 do not have such problems.

Nowadays it is very rare that tanks fight tanks; there are no attacks by deployed tank formations. Increasingly, tanks operate from ambushes and from covered positions. So the quality of thermal imagers matters, but is by no means the key.

Quote from Escariot

Even all old Ukrainian tanks are now equipped with American radio stations, not to mention the newly installed ones.

So in the Russian Federation, digital communications came to the troops.
But everything is learned by comparison. That is why I proposed comparing tanks of the Russian Armed Forces and used tanks. Both quantitatively and qualitatively, the Russian Federation has a serious advantage, which is rapidly growing. At least 1500 new and modernized tanks have been delivered to the troops this year. And this does not take into account the tanks that rise from the DH without modernization (and there are such, too, although they usually go to the troops as fire reinforcement).

Quote from Escariot

So the quality of the tank fleet of the Ukrainian Armed Forces is improving.

Regarding the tank fleet of the Armed Forces of Ukraine until 24.02.2022/XNUMX/XNUMX. - Yes . But compared to the tank fleet of the Russian Armed Forces, no.
Therefore, I testify that the prospects for the Armed Forces of Ukraine are extremely bleak.

[Escariot]

Quote: bayard

Quote from Escariot

Still, let's talk about Ukrainian tanks.

That’s how it seemed to be about them.

Quote from Escariot

The NWO costs the West less than $100 billion a year.

Actually, more, and this is only direct financing of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, not to mention the costs of the NATO countries themselves to provide them. The same AWACS and RTR aviation are exhausting their resources in permanent air services. The military and logistics infrastructure is being strained, equipment and ammunition of NATO countries are being washed away.
In addition, the economies of the EU countries alone have lost $1,5 trillion during this time from their own sanctions, and entire industries are curtailing production. This is also a result.

Quote from Escariot

The Russian Federation now spends up to 6% of GDP on defense.

And these expenses go entirely to our economy, and are not transferred to offshore companies and Western securities. Thanks to this, industrial production in the Russian Federation increased by 7% this year. Is this good or bad?
All this money remains inside the economy and, through cooperation chains, revitalizes the economy. The already low unemployment has practically disappeared.

Quote from Escariot

Ukrainian T-64bv had problems with the fire control system. The Czech T-72, Polish TR-91 and German Leo-1 do not have such problems.

Nowadays it is very rare that tanks fight tanks; there are no attacks by deployed tank formations. Increasingly, tanks operate from ambushes and from covered positions. So the quality of thermal imagers matters, but is by no means the key.

Quote from Escariot

Even all old Ukrainian tanks are now equipped with American radio stations, not to mention the newly installed ones.

So in the Russian Federation, digital communications came to the troops.
But everything is learned by comparison. That is why I proposed comparing tanks of the Russian Armed Forces and used tanks. Both quantitatively and qualitatively, the Russian Federation has a serious advantage, which is rapidly growing. At least 1500 new and modernized tanks have been delivered to the troops this year. And this does not take into account the tanks that rise from the DH without modernization (and there are such, too, although they usually go to the troops as fire reinforcement).

Quote from Escariot

So the quality of the tank fleet of the Ukrainian Armed Forces is improving.

Regarding the tank fleet of the Armed Forces of Ukraine until 24.02.2022/XNUMX/XNUMX. - Yes . But compared to the tank fleet of the Russian Armed Forces, no.
Therefore, I testify that the prospects for the Armed Forces of Ukraine are extremely bleak.

Naturally, in addition to direct costs for the air defense system, there are also indirect ones, but these costs, in turn, are included in the general military budget of Western countries. There, the United States alone has more than 800 billion annual expenses, regardless of the SVO, so they can afford it.
1.5 trillion losses for the West is of course not small money, but 50 trillion is quite a reasonable 3% of GDP.
And of course, you yourself agreed that the Ukrainian Armed Forces will have some improvement relative to its level.
Now, if you really want to, let’s sort it out with the Russian Federation. Defense spending, of course, remains within the country, BUT(!) Each additional tank built is a minus in the civilian economy. You've probably seen what's going on with the prices of domestic cars. The economy is reviving so actively that we have to increase the interest rate once again, which is not good for this economic revival itself.
As for the tank fleet, at the beginning of the Northern Military District we saw slender tank columns from T-72B3 with the corresponding level of losses. What now? Where are those hundreds of T-72B3Ms? God willing, there are a dozen of them listed as losses. The same applies to the T-80BVM and T-80BV model 2022. The only “new” tank that performs quite often is the T-72b model 2022, which has a 1PN-96MT-02 sight instead of Sosna-U, and even a couple of dozen of those were recorded. Those. Personally, I (although I may be wrong) do not see hundreds of new and modernized tanks. And even on those tanks that have been modernized (T-72B3M and T-72B model 2022), we see a two-fold superiority of the simplified version, which seems to hint at the lack of Sosna-U in the required quantities. But this Sosny-U is a standard sight for the T-72B3, which was the most common tank in the Russian Federation before the Northern Military District. Those. we see a qualitative deterioration at least in the segment of modernized T-72s.

[bayard]

Quote from Escariot

1.5 trillion losses for the West is of course not small money, but 50 trillion is quite a reasonable 3% of GDP.

Actually, Europe lost 1,5 trillion, not the entire West. The USA, Canada, Japan have their own losses. So for Europe it is a little more than 3%. And this feels very serious.

Quote from Escariot

Every additional tank built is a minus in the civilian economy.

Only if finances and personnel are transferred from the civilian sector to the military. In our country this is not very pronounced, especially in finance. There was always more money in the Economy and the budget than was spent and the “surplus” was sterilized” in various “reserve funds”. Now this is not happening, moreover, the IMF “Budget Rule” has been abolished. And all this fresh money can and does go to the SVO and development OPK.
In addition, since all weapons are produced 95-99% from domestic components, all the money spent on the purchase of weapons remains within the country and, passing (sometimes several times) through all chains of cooperation, revitalizes both all these productions and the consumer market , because these are additional salaries paid, which people then spend within the country. So in our case, such military spending is an absolute benefit for Finance and the Economy as a whole.

Quote from Escariot

You've probably seen what's going on with the prices of domestic cars.

But this is a completely different song. There is no full-cycle domestic passenger car industry left in the Russian Federation. Therefore, the enterprises stood idle for quite a long time after the departure of Western investors, while the owners of the enterprises changed and looked for new partners. All this time, workers were paid 60 - 70% of their regular salary, so as not to lose staff. And when the production of new models was launched into series, it is necessary to somehow recoup the losses incurred. And since there is no alternative to these cars (and those imported from China) on the domestic market, both manufacturers and retail chains solved the issue simply - by increasing the price. When production gets back on its feet, the technical process and production cooperation are adjusted, and possibly the localization of production on the territory of the Russian Federation, prices will creep down - simply as a result of internal competition among producers. And the state here can also act as a regulator through the introduction of some benefits for producers - subsidized loans, tax breaks, etc.
The surprising thing is that despite the fact that the production of passenger cars in the country did not even decline, but failed, the overall growth of Industry was about 7-8% (the exact figure will be available by the end of the year). And this is despite the overall economic growth of “about 3%”. In my opinion, it’s not so bad for an Economy torn to shreds.

Quote from Escariot

The economy is reviving so actively that we have to increase the interest rate once again, which is not good for this economic revival itself.

Ooh ooh Interest rate .
Alas, this crap is from the Russian government and even from the president does not depend . It is established from the outside - the IMF and the World Bank. And these are the consequences of Yeltsin’s severe alcoholism and his hopeless Stupidity against the backdrop of phenomenal Greed and thirst for power. He sold financial sovereignty for the “lentil stew” of recognition of the legality of the coup. It is through this that the growth of our economy is restrained. Our Central Bank is not only completely unaccountable to the country’s leadership, but its directives in the financial sector... ARE MANDATORY for the government to implement... This is “sovereignty”. So this bet is an unpleasant thing, but it is impossible to influence it. Unless it is “subsidizing” for lending to defense and strategic enterprises and programs... and, of course, direct budget financing. The latter is when there is a lot of money in the budget, and allows you to finance all defense programs and a number of development programs.
But if someday the towers get tired of this obscenity, then some laws in the Constitution of the Russian Federation may be abolished. And accept new ones. And a wartime regime or a state of emergency can greatly contribute to this.
But that's enough for now.

Quote from Escariot

What now? Where are those hundreds of T-72B3Ms?

Saturate new and revived military formations and associations. And we will need many more of them. After all, if for the 280 thousand strength of the RF Armed Forces there were approximately 2300 tanks (most likely even more), then now, when the regular (in peacetime) number will be at least 1,5 million bayonets, tanks will be needed from 12 to 20 thousand. So Uralvagonzavod drives tanks off the assembly line like pies. That’s why Omsktransmash is resuming the construction of the T-80 from scratch and through the full cycle - a lot of tanks are needed. And old supplies alone cannot cover the needs.

Quote from Escariot

1PN-96MT-02 instead of Sosna-U

Yes, everything is fine with Sosna-U. It’s just that its production was not designed for SUCH requests, so for some time we had to be content with parts of the modernized (not new!) sights and thermal imagers of the previous generation. But its capabilities are quite sufficient for our Palestinians. Let me remind you that for a European theater of operations, the line-of-sight range from a tank against tank-type targets usually does not exceed 2,5 - 3 km. NATO headquarters knew this for a long time. So the capabilities of the previous generation sights are quite sufficient for the current conflict. Moreover, direct tank battles and tank advances in deployed formations have somehow... not been observed lately. In addition, I repeat - everything is fine with the production of Sosna-U and the output covers the needs.

Quote from Escariot

we see a twofold advantage in the simplified version, which seems to hint at the lack of Sosna-U in the required quantities

There is already enough for everyone. No matter how they now start installing them on the modernized T-62M... out of abundance.

Quote from Escariot

Sosny-U is a standard sight for the T-72B3, which was the most common Russian tank before the SVO. Those. we see a qualitative deterioration at least in the segment of modernized T-72s.

I would not consider the installation of previous generation sights on the T-72B3M to be a noticeable qualitative deterioration. Because in the current conditions and in this theater of operations, the capabilities of this sight are quite sufficient. But the degree and quality of security of this modification has increased greatly over the past six months to a year. So the drawdown in the quality of one position is more than offset by the strengthening of another. And there the position is far from being alone (in terms of improvements).
So everything is fine with us with tanks. By the end of the year, at least 1500 new and modernized units will be delivered to the troops. Together with restored but not modernized ones - at least 1800 pieces. Next year the numbers will be significantly higher - new tank repair facilities will join the modernization efforts... and Omsk will begin delivery of new T-80s.
And wars are not fought with tanks alone. New artillery is being sent to the troops, new shells and in much larger quantities, MLRS, rocket-propelled flamethrowers, Aviation has increased in number and received glide bombs in immeasurable quantities. Reconnaissance and attack UAVs, communications and command and control equipment... Finally, everything went well to the troops at an increasing pace. And considerable reserves have been accumulated, and continue to accumulate. And the commanders learned to fight, and the fighters gained combat experience. Today is not at all what it was “yesterday”.

[Escariot]

Oooh fellow Interest Rate. bully
Alas, this crap does not depend on the government of the Russian Federation or even on the president of the request. It is established from the outside - the IMF and the World Bank

If you are not aware, the head of the Central Bank is appointed not by the IMF, but by the popularly elected Parliament on the proposal of the President. And this president is no longer Boris Nikolaevich.

Yes, everything is fine with Sosna-U. its production was simply not designed for SUCH requests, so for some time we had to be content with parts of the modernized (not new!) sights and thermal imagers of the previous generation

If previously most tanks had pine, now they have a sight of the previous generation. The qualitative deterioration of the tanks entering combat units is obvious.

There is already enough for everyone. yes No matter how they now start installing them on the modernized T-62M... out of abundance.

Personally, I have not seen the T-62M from Sosna-U. But there was a video from 1PN-96MT-01, which does not have a laser rangefinder.

So everything is fine with us with tanks. By the end of the year, at least 1500 new and modernized units will be delivered to the troops. Together with restored but not modernized ones - at least 1800 pieces.

Is there any evidence that this will happen? State defense contracts are classified, I personally have never seen an armada of new tanks anywhere.

[bayard]

Quote from Escariot

If you are not aware, the head of the Central Bank is appointed not by the IMF, but by the popularly elected Parliament on the proposal of the President. And this president is no longer Boris Nikolaevich.

This option is a consolation “prize” for the state taken under control. That is why they have not changed Nabiulina until now - no one is interested in soap. And so - for the thinking population, everything is clear - who is the source of everything in the Economy. If a decision is made to change the rules (the Constitution), or at least introduce a progressive tax on excess profits, especially for the banking sector. Including, and first of all, the Central Bank itself.

Quote from Escariot

If previously most tanks had pine, now they have a sight of the previous generation. The qualitative deterioration of the tanks entering combat units is obvious.

This was partly the case until recently, but even a third of 1500 new and modernized tanks is already a lot, the rest can be modernized over time even in military conditions.

Quote from Escariot

Personally, I have not seen the T-62M from Sosna-U.

Me too, but who knows if the production of Sosna-U will exceed the number of new T-90M and modernized T-72B3M and T-80BVM. I'm talking about a possible future.

Quote from Escariot

Is there any evidence that this will happen? State defense contracts are classified, I personally have never seen an armada of new tanks anywhere.

In fact, there are reports that the Industry’s supply plans for tanks are even exceeded by actual deliveries. So the plan will definitely be fulfilled and even most likely exceeded.

[tkoh]

Quote: bayard

Only if finances and personnel are transferred from the civilian sector to the military. In our country this is not very pronounced, especially in finance.

300 thousand were mobilized to the front that year. Plus, 400 or however many thousand volunteered for the contract. From 500 thousand to a million people left the country. In total, at least a million of the working-age population dropped out of the economy. But the Russian economy is blooming and smelling. Marvelous

[futurohunter]

Bayard
You wrote about the auto industry:

internal competition among producers

Where did you see competition in the domestic auto industry? New passenger cars are made only by AvtoVAZ. "Taziki" are the main economy class passenger cars in the regions. Those who have more money, and residents of megacities, buy Chinese or used foreign cars that are still left.
There is no competition among trucks either. Small trucks are made only by GAZ and UAZ. Again, here are the Chinese and used European-Japanese. Tractors - only MAZ and used Europeans. I would say that there will soon be a shortage of cars, because our modest automobile industry is not growing. The same AvtoVAZ is experiencing constant problems with components. The Chinese will not save the situation. So prices in the car market will only rise, and there will be more and more junk cars on the roads. It will be something like in Cuba if the authorities do nothing for the auto industry

[BAI]

Since February 2022, significant progress has been made in this matter. According to our Ministry of Defense, more than 13,3 thousand tanks and other enemy armored fighting vehicles.

It is not difficult to calculate that to date only the confirmed losses of the Ukrainian tank fleet have exceeded 50% of the number combat units at the beginning of 2022

Those. were there 26 units of armored vehicles in total? Not too much?

[Ivan Seversky]

Those. were there 26 units of armored vehicles in total? Not too much?

Too few. Konashenkov has shot down planes available and supplied by the West for the 4th time already. He also needs to defeat armored vehicles, maybe he will become a colonel general.

[konst]

Don’t you understand, 13 tanks and other vehicles together. They don’t say how many tanks. Maybe 000, maybe 1000 of this number.

[Ivan Seversky]

According to the same Oryx, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have delivered a little less than 700 Soviet and Western tanks, another 200 are being repaired and are being prepared for delivery.

There are several thousand M60 tanks at US storage bases; if desired, they can restore three hundred a year and transfer them to Ukraine, not to mention the 2 thousand early Abrams in warehouses.
The Ukrainian Armed Forces clearly have enough tanks until 2030.

[Goroches]

Will the Ukrainian Armed Forces have enough Tarasikovs until 2030?

[futurohunter]

Goroches
BLM and ISIS will be used, only they will wear embroidered shirts and straighten their curls to create forelocks

[Zaurbek]

The total number of MBTs in combat units, in reserve and in storage, as well as in deliveries from third countries, exceeded 2,5 thousand.

The Russian Federation transferred a bunch more equipment to 404 after the events near Kharkov

[Hariton]

I wonder whether the censor or the author himself removed captured tanks captured by the Ukrainian Armed Forces from the article. This is just stupidity.
The fate of ALL LIARS is in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone (Rev. 21:8).

[Zaurbek]

In WWII, according to statistics, 1 tank destroyed means one tanker killed....

[Wildcat]

Hmm, well, at least it was possible to make a sign about the tanks?
“Plan, fact, disposal, availability”? From T55 to Leo2?

IMHO, taking into account deliveries and losses, M. Reisner (“the bald one from Brazzers”, who is also the head of the research and development department at the Austrian Military Academy), estimated the number of Ukrainian Armed Forces tanks at 858 units. at the beginning of SVO and 1000 pcs. at the end of summer 2023

[BorzRio]

Unfortunately, in the Russian segment there are no longer any truthful and adequate information platforms about SVO. Everything and everyone was crushed and silenced. The enemy’s losses are exaggerated many times over now not only by the Ministry of Defense, but also by TG channels and military correspondents who once wrote the truth, but they simply hush up their losses or blatantly lie that there were none, “no one was hurt” (except for civilians). In such conditions, there is no point in counting technical losses on one side or the other. But the worst thing is that the Russian media all shut up at once and practically do not cover enemy strikes anymore, and this is not a matter of secrecy. The enemy knows perfectly well the results of his attacks even without us - he has informants a dime a dozen, from traitors and waiters to NATO satellites. The point is apparently that a method has been developed: no information, no losses. As a result, people go to enemy channels in order to at least somehow understand what is happening.

[Alex 13]

It seems like we have already destroyed more there?

[vladcub]

During combat operations, tanks suffer losses, but if you have the desire, you can always arrange for the restoration of damaged tanks.
Therefore, the list is conditional. They are quite capable of organizing the restoration of damaged T-64 or T-72.
According to the media, they have about 50 T-90A from Pakistan.
A number of trophy 90s. There was information on the site last year.

[Escariot]

Quote: vladcub

During combat operations, tanks suffer losses, but if you have the desire, you can always arrange for the restoration of damaged tanks.
Therefore, the list is conditional. They are quite capable of organizing the restoration of damaged T-64 or T-72.
According to the media, they have about 50 T-90A from Pakistan.
A number of trophy 90s. There was information on the site last year.

There is a limitation on repair capacity and spare parts. For example, it is not at all clear whether there are stocks of 5TDF engines for the T-64. The Malyshev plant is more dead than alive, there are no large warehouse reserves, and remotorization of the T-64 is impossible. There is little hope for Pakistan, and even that is doubtful. Accordingly, soon there will simply be physically nothing to repair the T-64.

[futurohunter]

vladcub
If a tank burns down, it cannot be restored. Only for remelting.
T-90s were not delivered to Pakistan - only to India. The Bharatiyas will not give it up - they themselves need such a cow.
T-84s were supplied to Pakistan, just from Ukraine

[Nord11]

Everything would be fine, but sometimes the crews are lost along with the tanks. If the tank can be restored, then soon there will be no one to hold the levers, or the quality of the replacement will fall below a critical level. This was the case with Japan, when the Americans knocked out their flight personnel and they had to switch to hastily trained kamikazes..

[Escariot]

Quote: Nord11

Everything would be fine, but sometimes the crews are lost along with the tanks. If the tank can be restored, then soon there will be no one to hold the levers, or the quality of the replacement will fall below a critical level. This was the case with Japan, when the Americans knocked out their flight personnel and they had to switch to hastily trained kamikazes..

Japan had a personnel problem primarily due to resource limitations. Well, the Japanese couldn’t afford to train pilots for at least 60 flight hours like in the USSR, not to mention 125 hours like in Germany.
Now the West has no problems with fuel to train Ukrainians to pull handles. It is clear that they will not be aces, but it is quite possible to maintain the level of training.

[Codett]

The most offensive thing for me personally is that the Ukrovermacht fights mainly with our Soviet tanks, and in general with weapons produced by the USSR, our ancestors would probably be stunned to learn about this, all this was produced to fight NATO, but here it is.

[Escariot]

Quote: Codett

The most offensive thing for me personally is that the Ukrovermacht fights mainly with our Soviet tanks, and in general with weapons produced by the USSR, our ancestors would probably be stunned to learn about this, all this was produced to fight NATO, but here it is.

Well, how to say “Soviet tanks”, most of the tank fleet of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was produced on the territory of Soviet Ukraine in Kharkov. Well, export T-72s at factories in the Soviet Czech Republic and Poland.
It’s just that before, Soviet Ukraine was in a Union with the same Soviet RSFSR, and then the Soviet government was overthrown everywhere and capitalist Ukraine left the Union with the capitalist RSFSR (AKA Russian Federation) and went over to the side of the capitalist NATO, like the former members of the Warsaw Department, which became capitalist.

[futurohunter]

For some reason, no one wrote that the further they go, the more ukrov will have a zoo in technology - they are given a wide variety of equipment produced in different countries. I think there are already problems with spare parts for Western-style equipment. If they throw in more Westerners, there will be problems with the shells - because the calibers are different. And Challengers have special shells.
I’m not sure that the T-72 clones, for example, the RT-91, are fully compatible with spare parts. For some reason, no one remembers that the USSR and our former allies gave a bunch of tanks to all sorts of Asians and Africans. The same Thailand will completely replace the T-84 with something newer and more accurate. By the way, Israel also had a large fleet of Soviet-made equipment. Well, they also mentioned junk, like the M-60. There is also plenty of such scrap metal. They, of course, are not at all residents at the front, but the “suppliers” don’t care much about this

[Mamin-Sibiryak]

It’s a pity that in September 1943 there was no forum to discuss the results of Operation Citadel