Stratospheric target search complex for the Russian army

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Stratospheric target search complex for the Russian army

Somehow, little by little, our media began to discuss one topic that did not leave anyone indifferent. They are discussing, and I must say, quite categorically, this topic: the Russian army will receive the latest high-altitude reconnaissance and strike aviation complex. They have already begun to create it, just a little bit - and that’s it, the enemy cannot hide from the all-seeing eye of the new HANDS.

We begin to understand.



Prerequisites to create


There really are prerequisites, and they are justified. In a military conflict, the faster information about the enemy’s location reaches those who must eliminate this enemy, the better it is. Therefore, for this it is worth using all the technical capabilities that are at your disposal.

Satellite constellation. Here, if it exists, then everything is pretty good. And when it is not there, when the army has information from a certain (small) number of satellites at its disposal, then this information is of little use. In general, a satellite in orbit has many weaknesses.


The satellite flies in its orbit and it is not so easy to direct it to the right place. Of course, there are possibilities for adjusting and changing the orbit, but they are not endless, but on the contrary, very finite. That’s why there should be a lot of satellites in space, so that theoretically it would be possible to “keep” the entire necessary area under vigilant control.

The second weakness is that the enemy can easily adjust his actions so that the satellite does not see anything. If you know the orbit and time of passage over the area, you can “close” it. And here is the problem: the satellite will not hover over the area, it will not be returned to the point. He will fly on and hello, until the next passage.

Aviation. In general, everything here has already been invented, and for a long time. There are aircraft such as AWACS that:
- fly outside the range of enemy air defense;
- can conduct reconnaissance and carry out target designation for any types of troops;
- have a very decent time in the air.


The only disadvantage of AWACS aircraft is the theoretical need to cover them from enemy aircraft if they are, for example, in the waters of the same Black Sea, that is, on neutral territory.

Of course, nothing shines for army reconnaissance aviation, alas, but the development of anti-aircraft missile systems today practically eliminates the work of reconnaissance aircraft in the area of ​​the front line and behind it.

But they take on this job very well drones. Today, a drone is a lifesaver for a platoon commander, what can we say about higher levels. The successes of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were largely due to the fact that the Ukrainian side has an advantage in intelligence drones estimated at 10 to 1.


And there is also a class of strategic UAVs that can simply brilliantly perform the role of an AWACS aircraft at minimal cost. And they do it. But such devices also have their weaknesses - they are practically defenseless in the event of interception, and if the enemy detects the same RQ-4 “Global Hawk”, then the device will simply be destroyed by the interceptors, since the speed of the UAV will not give it the opportunity to escape from its pursuers.

Apparently, everything is so sad with our AWACS aircraft and there are no prospects in terms of creating strategic reconnaissance UAVs that, as always, somewhere we decided to go our own way.

Your path - where is it going?



He's in the stratosphere. If you believe the media, then the announced strike and reconnaissance complex being created in the interests of the Russian Armed Forces will be stratospheric. That is, fly at altitudes from 11 to 50 km.

Well, there is a certain rational grain in this. Somewhere in the region of 15 km and above, anti-aircraft missiles begin to “deflate” and are pulled towards the ground. Not all missiles from the same S-400, of course, fly above 20 km, but this is rather an exception. And the vast majority of foreign air defense systems will indeed have big problems reaching such heights.

What did you decide to do in Russia? If you believe the media, the new stratospheric strike and reconnaissance complex will consist of an aircraft, suspended containers with radars, electronic reconnaissance systems and optical-electronic stations. The new complex will be able to transmit target coordinates in real time to ground-based missile systems, artillery, naval and aviation ships.

In words everything looks good, in reality... But how is it in reality?

Aircraft



Today, Russia has only one aircraft capable of flying beyond 20 meters in altitude. This is still the same MiG-000, high-altitude interceptor, carrier of the Daggers, and so on. In general, the 31st can fly up to 31 meters; another question is how effectively this aircraft can be used as a reconnaissance aircraft.

Do not forget that the youngest MiG-31 aircraft available in the Russian Aerospace Forces were produced in 1994. That is, “only” 30 years ago. No one can cancel the life of the airframe, metal fatigue and other age-related problems. And using the remaining MiG-31s ​​for reconnaissance does not seem to be a very good idea, although initially the aircraft had the ability to control and transmit target designation to other aircraft or ground control points.

Conclusion: if the MiG-31 is used as a reconnaissance aircraft, it is necessary to revive the production of these machines. That in the current state of JSC RSK MiG looks fantastic.

In addition, the reconnaissance officer must be... lighter than a forty-ton monster, which, in addition to everything else, also carries several tons of missiles. In general, the concept of a “reconnaissance-strike complex” itself is somewhat uneven. “Crossing a hedgehog and a snake” is possible, but is it necessary? A reconnaissance aircraft is unlikely to be able to deliver an impressive strike, and an attack aircraft is unlikely to be able to carry out full-fledged reconnaissance. Narrow specialization? Perhaps, but it makes common sense.


The MiG-31 can fly very fast and high. But it doesn't carry much weaponsto be a real strike aircraft in the air-to-surface sphere. The maximum load of four missiles is not for an attack aircraft (some part of the suspension units will need to be left for air-to-air missiles for self-defense), whatever one may say.

A good reconnaissance aircraft, but a bad attack aircraft, or vice versa - isn’t it easier to just make a good reconnaissance aircraft? For example, what the U-2 or the Blackbird was like until a certain time.

In general, of course, we have one more plane.


As our media sources said, “the new aircraft will have a modular configuration.” I hope that this will not happen. Suffice it to remember how the epic with modular ships ended: lost billions and worthless troughs in perpetual layup.

But why not replaceable equipment options? It’s just that hanging containers, which will be discussed below, and modular design are slightly different things. In our case we are talking about hanging containers.

So what are we going to hang these containers on if the MiG-31 is not quite suitable?

And we have another plane. Let's go to history, and there is discovered the creation of the Myasishchev Design Bureau, which made its first flight in 1982. Fanfare - on stage M-17 “Stratosphere” / M-55 “Geophysics”.


A total of 8 of these very unique aircraft were produced. Three M-17s and five M-55s. For forty years, oddly enough, one plane survived. Not the one that is on display in the museum in Monino, there is another one there, in a looted state, but the one that was at the disposal of the Myasishchev Design Bureau all this time.

And now this plane is actually flying today, with real containers, studying the question of how well equipment from containers will work at high altitudes.

Some hotheads have already stated that the M-55 is exactly the reconnaissance aircraft that is needed tomorrow. The only question is where to get it?

And the answer to this question must be sought... in Smolensk!


Strange as it may seem, within the walls of the Smolensk Aviation Plant, which has been operating since 1926, not only has everything necessary (drawings, technical documentation, equipment) for the production of the M-55 “Geophysics” been preserved, but over the past few years, work has been carried out to modify the aircraft , including work on a two-seater version.

A two-seater aircraft capable of climbing to a height of 21,5 km and flying there for some time (1 hour) and carrying a payload of 1 kg. At an altitude of 500 km, the plane can stay much longer, up to 17 hours. And, perhaps, this already looks like a scout.

In addition, the M-55 is significantly smaller and lighter than the MiG-31. Yes, the payload is not very large, but here you can already play with the engines. Initially, the M-17 had an RD-36-51V engine (OKB-36, now ODK Saturn) with a thrust of 6 kgf, and the M-000 was already equipped with two D-55-30V or D-10V-30 engines (OKB P.A. Solovyov, now UEC "Aviadvigatel") with a capacity of 12 kgf each.

Here is a question for the Perm Aviation Engine Plant, whether they will be able to organize the production of these products. Despite the fact that it seems to be a D-30, in fact the engines are D30-10V (for the M-55), D-30V (for the V-12 helicopter), D-30KP (for the Il-76), D-30F (for the MiG-31) - these engines are completely different, moreover, they often have nothing in common with each other.

In general, there seems to be a plane for equipment.

What does the scout have in his containers?


Naturally, equipment for obtaining various data. There is nothing particularly new there; the decision was made to use the developments from the Sych project.

“Sych” is a deep modernization (I would say practically the creation of a new product) based on the MRK-411 electronic intelligence complex. This complex was installed on such aircraft as the Tu-214R and Il-20R.


At one time, it was decided that, due to the development of the radio-electronic base, the size of the complex could be reduced and made container-based with subsequent use on Su-34 aircraft.


This is what “Sych” is - the M-411 side-view radio complex, maximally modernized by replacing the element base. Much was created anew, for example, the Pika-M radar with PFAR.

Since the Su-34 is much smaller in size than the Tu-214R, the decision to divide the equipment according to specialization suggested itself.

Option UKR-RT designed for electronic reconnaissance, UKR-OE for optical-electronic reconnaissance, UKR-RL for radar.

The UKR-RT container should be treated with a fair amount of skepticism, because its development began more than 20 years ago. Today it is difficult to say that UKR-RT is modern, but if with its help it is possible to detect and accurately determine the coordinates and technical characteristics of such targets as communication and information transmission systems, radars, and UAV control channels, this is useful.

Moreover, UKR-RT has already been tested in combat conditions on the Su-34.

Option UKR-RL - This is a radar reconnaissance module with the fourth generation Pika-M radar. The radar is two-way, low-element, with a passive phased array antenna. Resolution is about 0,3 m in SAR/ISAR mode, range is more than 300 km.

Option UKR-OE, optical-electronic, receives information by receiving and analyzing radiation in the ultraviolet, visible and infrared ranges that are created by reconnaissance objects.

In general, sets of equipment can really be changed depending on what task needs to be performed.

The idea of ​​the Sych was simple: to compensate for the impossibility of using the Tu-214R in active combat areas, especially where our aircraft could be intercepted by enemy aircraft. The use of such equipment on board the Su-34 significantly reduces the possibility of such an interception and destruction of a reconnaissance aircraft, due to the combat equipment of the Su-34, which is capable of “breaking in” to almost any Western-style aircraft.

The completely unarmed Tu-214R will naturally require fighter escort.

Total. What do we end up with?


As a result, we have very strange “crutches”. On the one hand, it is clearly quite possible to start building two-seat M-55Us and hanging containers with various equipment under the fuselages. And launching these planes 20+ km into the stratosphere so that they there, from a height unattainable for missiles, use their equipment to find targets and direct missiles there is also possible.

But don’t you think that an AWACS aircraft will do the same thing when located 200 kilometers from the front line, and even to a greater depth and with greater accuracy? And there will be not just one operator packed into a chair, but a tactical crew of 10 people working under normal human conditions?


And the same applies to a device like the Global Hawk. The drone will fly quietly, and its operators will conduct surveillance while in absolute safety on the ground.

In general, the idea of ​​a “newest stratospheric reconnaissance aircraft” looks very poor. The situation vaguely resembles the joke “Whatever the Russians can come up with, as long as they don’t build roads.”

It is clear that an airplane like the M-55 will not lift much equipment, and what it does lift will not look as far as we would like. That’s why they will drive him to a height, “suspending” him above the battlefield.

And instead of building normal aircraft, with normal equipment, the idea of ​​an ersatz triumphs again. An ersatz reconnaissance aircraft instead of a normal AWACS aircraft, even instead of the same Tu-214R, of which as many as TWO were produced. Ersatz tank T-54 instead of T-90 and so on.

But the most unpleasant thing here is that you can’t even call it a cut: everything can really be done. Another question is: is this necessary? Maybe we can finally master the production of normal reconnaissance aircraft?
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  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. +18
      13 November 2023 05: 04
      If you believe the media, then the announced strike and reconnaissance complex being created in the interests of the Russian Armed Forces will be stratospheric. That is, fly at altitudes from 11 to 50 km.
      50 km???seriously? clownery.
      1. +44
        13 November 2023 08: 46
        Everything that is happening in our country and not only in the Moscow Region has long been reminiscent of the theater of the absurd, and this is happening due to the fact that incompetent and untaught people with exorbitant ambitions are in power.

        If we consider the problem voiced by the author of our virtual lack of intelligence and command control, then it must be solved systematically, creating a modern system.

        At the beginning, it is necessary to formulate the requirements of the Ministry of Defense for a unified control and reconnaissance system with secure information exchange channels, including a system of modern secure military communications of various levels, as well as for space assets, UAVs and aircraft for various purposes, and assign responsible persons for the implementation of each task and deadlines.
        Then, based on the formulated system, it is necessary to create and provide troops with communications and control means, form units within units and separate companies and battalions of UAVs and provide them with the necessary UAVs, transport, as well as means of communication and information exchange.
        At the same time, it is necessary to develop and organize mass production and launch into orbit of the necessary satellites, including communication satellites, on which control and data exchange will be built, including with long-range UAVs, which also need to be developed and produced.
        Also to develop and organize the production of AWACS and RTR aircraft based on the Tu-204/214, which are already in storage and the production of which is being restored in Kazan, and also such already flying aircraft can be taken to the Arctic Ocean of Russia, serving the country's leadership, there are 7 ordinary ones Tu-204/214, which can be immediately converted into RTR and AWACS aircraft.

        In reality, nothing is being done systematically, there are not even plans to build an adequate intelligence system and control center, there is the habitual idleness of the leadership of the Defense Ministry, deception and window dressing against the background of the fact that some heads of the Defense Ministry are trying to do something as they see for themselves and the really enormous activity deployed by enterprising patriots Russia, on which, in general, much of our army rests.
        1. +3
          13 November 2023 12: 36
          Quote: ramzay21
          Everything that is happening in our country and not only in the Moscow Region has long been reminiscent of the theater of the absurd, and this is happening due to the fact that incompetent and untaught people with exorbitant ambitions are in power.

          If we consider the problem voiced by the author of our virtual lack of intelligence and command control, then it must be solved systematically, creating a modern system.

          At the beginning, it is necessary to formulate the requirements of the Ministry of Defense for a unified control and reconnaissance system with secure information exchange channels, including a system of modern secure military communications of various levels, as well as for space assets, UAVs and aircraft for various purposes, and assign responsible persons for the implementation of each task and deadlines.
          Then, based on the formulated system, it is necessary to create and provide troops with communications and control means, form units within units and separate companies and battalions of UAVs and provide them with the necessary UAVs, transport, as well as means of communication and information exchange.
          At the same time, it is necessary to develop and organize mass production and launch into orbit of the necessary satellites, including communication satellites, on which control and data exchange will be built, including with long-range UAVs, which also need to be developed and produced.
          Also to develop and organize the production of AWACS and RTR aircraft based on the Tu-204/214, which are already in storage and the production of which is being restored in Kazan, and also such already flying aircraft can be taken to the Arctic Ocean of Russia, serving the country's leadership, there are 7 ordinary ones Tu-204/214, which can be immediately converted into RTR and AWACS aircraft.

          In reality, nothing is being done systematically, there are not even plans to build an adequate intelligence system and control center, there is the habitual idleness of the leadership of the Defense Ministry, deception and window dressing against the background of the fact that some heads of the Defense Ministry are trying to do something as they see for themselves and the really enormous activity deployed by enterprising patriots Russia, on which, in general, much of our army rests.

          You are wrong here. If you don’t engage in deception and window dressing, the end result will be such an unsightly picture that the remaining patriots will give up on it
        2. +13
          13 November 2023 13: 20
          incompetent and unteachable people with exorbitant ambitions are in power.
          In doing so, they must:
          formulate the requirements of the Ministry of Defense for a unified control and reconnaissance system with secure information exchange channels, including a system of modern secure military communications at various levels, as well as for space assets, UAVs and aircraft for various purposes, and appoint responsible persons for the implementation of each task and deadlines.
          as well as
          Based on the formulated system, it is necessary to create and provide troops with communications and control means, form units within units and separate companies and battalions of UAVs and provide them with the necessary UAVs, transport, as well as means of communication and information exchange.
          . Just explain, if the incompetent and untrained have not created over the decades a semblance of what you formulated, then how can they do it now? If you so veiledly propose to change “in power”, then who will decide to do this during military operations, and where will the competent and trained people come from?
          1. +14
            13 November 2023 15: 09
            Just explain, if the incompetent and untrained have not created over the decades a semblance of what you formulated, then how can they do it now?

            I wrote it completely differently from how you pose the question. I stated the fact that the management is incompetent and untaught, and does not understand what a management system is, how to create it and how it works.
            Smart people said, criticizing, suggesting. So I wrote how I personally see what needs to be done.
            If you so veiledly propose to change “in power”, then who will decide to do this during military operations, and where will the competent and trained people come from?

            Firstly, yes, I am for a change of power, and the sooner the better, only for a real change of power and not for a change of façade. The government must change regularly and not drive the country into problems, otherwise the government will be demolished. And here it is useful to remember not even how the French demolished Louis and took the Bastille, it is much more useful to remember the narrow-minded Tsar Nicholas II and the revolutions of 1905 after the Russo-Japanese War and the February and October revolutions of 1917 after three years of unsuccessfully fighting the useless First World War.
            Secondly, the absence of smart people in leadership does not mean at all that all 150 million of us are unteachable, it means that smart people do not have social elevators and reverse selection works, in which only sycophants and fools move up.
            1. -4
              13 November 2023 20: 21
              In fact, it’s not fools who climb to the top. After all, in order to climb up you need to go in the right direction and be stupid at the right moment, but an ordinary fool can’t do that. They behave this way specifically so that our partners do not see them as competitors, because partners do not stand on ceremony with competitors.
            2. +1
              13 November 2023 23: 04
              Quote: ramzay21
              The government must change regularly and not drive the country into problems, otherwise the government will be demolished.

              regular changes of power lead to the collapse of revolutions, the USA as an example, as soon as an unplanned change occurred in the person of Trump, everything went to pieces
              1. +3
                14 November 2023 13: 58
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                As soon as there was an unplanned change in the person of Trump, everything went to pieces

                And what went wrong there? Do they have a natural population decline of -800 thousand per year, or did a satellite constellation 100 times larger than ours fall from the sky? Everything is OK with them, they have deceived us into a bloody war and they are rubbing their hands, the bastards.
            3. -2
              17 November 2023 21: 32
              Ooh, it smacks of a call for a change of power, firstly, this is an article for many years, and secondly, I think everyone here can guess where these calls of yours are coming from.
            4. 0
              19 November 2023 01: 13
              I remember the times when during one five-year plan (over a period of five years) 5 (five) general secretaries were replaced. The latter later decided to become the president of the USSR, but in the end he too died.

              only sycophants and fools move to the top
              This was, is and will be under any government. It is not the government that needs to be changed, but human nature.
          2. +3
            14 November 2023 13: 45
            Quote: Dzenn
            and where will the competent and trainable ones come from?

            When there is competition for aviation institutes and technical schools, as before, then, 10 years after the change of government, they will begin to appear.
            1. +2
              14 November 2023 16: 42
              This is you in vain.
              Back in the 1970s, aircraft modeling circles used aluminum centrifugal casting technologies, carbon fiber was generally in favor, chrome plating of colored pairs, etc.
        3. +5
          13 November 2023 23: 16
          I would suggest making a rear high-altitude system with a powerful AWACS radar based on... an airship.

          The Americans already did this for their fleet in the 1950s and 60s.
          Their designers created the largest non-rigid American airship, the ZPG-3W, designed from the very beginning to work as an early warning system.
          Four airships of this type successively entered service starting in July 1958. ZPG-3W had a length of 123 m. In a shell with a volume of 42 cu. m housed a large parabolic radar antenna with a diameter of 500 m!

          This airship is mentioned in this article:
          https://topwar.ru/110377-aviaciya-drlo-chast-2.html


          And in others:
          http://forums.airbase.ru/2023/07/t40801_4--dirizhabli-i-flot.3196.html#p10951329
          https://navy-chf.livejournal.com/661148.html
          https://dekatop.com/archives/6286

          Now such wild dimensions of the radar are not needed.
          The airship can be made smaller, launched higher (for example, at a height of 12-15 km) and it should move strictly in its rear (70-80 km from the front).
          1. +2
            15 November 2023 23: 05
            Proposals for AWACS based on a stratospheric airship operating at altitudes of 25-35 km were already made 15 years ago. The A-100 has been in development for more than 20 years and it won’t be made even in 2030; there are no domestic radio-electronic components.
            1. +1
              20 November 2023 22: 03
              Were those proposals for AWACS based on a stratospheric airship operating at altitudes of 25-35 km sufficiently developed? I mean the size, mass, volume, shape, speed of autonomy of such an airship. And how many people should there be in the crew? Or was an unmanned airship even proposed?
          2. 0
            27 January 2024 00: 06
            I am not an aviation expert, but there has long been a feeling that airships have been forgotten in vain.
            Military aviation has been chasing speed and maneuverability for so many years, but with the current level of air defense, it has only achieved that the planes are too pitiful (I’m silent about the pilots).
            An airship, in my philistine understanding, costs a penny.
        4. 0
          31 January 2024 11: 58
          An ersatz T-54 tank instead of a T-90 and so on - it’s not like moving bags and the hands of others are always thicker!
      2. +1
        13 November 2023 10: 22
        I immediately wanted to find my commentary on the previous article about this stratospheric reconnaissance aircraft and feel like a smart and insightful specialist in this matter, especially about reinventing the wheel when there is a ready-made A-50U. But I won’t indulge myself with such prophecy; I understand that I’m no expert. They will figure out what to do and what not to do without me. request
      3. -7
        13 November 2023 16: 18
        Is it possible to convert a high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft into a stratospheric bomber, which, controlled by FABs 3000, 5000 and 9000, will demolish particularly strong objects throughout Ukraine - bridges across the Dnieper, hydroelectric power stations, thermal power plants, bunkers, tunnels in the Carpathians, without fear of any fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the Ukrainian air defense?
        1. +1
          13 November 2023 23: 56
          By the way, yes! When the fate of the MIG 31 was being decided five years ago, there was a proposal to convert it into a bomber. Then Savitskaya protested violently, although in essence the Dagger is the same bomber.
          1. +3
            14 November 2023 10: 31
            Quote: biznaw
            When the fate of the MIG 31 was being decided five years ago, there was a proposal to convert it into a bomber.

            Someone decided to invent bike MiG-25RB in a new way? smile
        2. 0
          14 November 2023 14: 35
          Quote: Girl with a broom
          Is it possible to convert...?

          For the people... The girl asked a technical question to the best of her competence, but they slapped down minuses on her! Aren't you ashamed, guys?
          1. +4
            19 November 2023 01: 16
            The girl asked a technical question to the best of her competence, but they gave her minuses!
            Stupidity should not be justified by gender differences.
        3. 0
          20 November 2023 20: 57
          To destroy bridges across the Dnieper, a political decision is required. It has long been obvious that he will not exist.
          1. +1
            21 November 2023 00: 32
            Certainly! There are clearly several ways to destroy bridges on the Dnieper, besides the newly invented high-altitude/stratospheric fighters/bombers. I'll try to list:
            1. ship-based cruise missiles (some even from the Sea of ​​Azov reach the bridges of Zaporozhye).
            2. Conventional gliding bombs used by tactical aviation (from the Energodar area they reach the bridges of Zaporozhye EVEN WITHOUT CROSSING THE FRONT).
            3. Operational ballistic missiles of the Iskander type.
            4. Long-range cruise missiles from the sea (all sorts of "Caliber" and "Onyx").
            5. Long-range cruise missiles from strategic carriers.
            6. Glide bombs from strategic carriers (alas, you will have to cross the front).
            7. Conventional tactical air-to-ground missiles from tactical aircraft.
            8. Conventional tactical missiles and gliding bombs and just air bombs from large drones...
            9. Add what I missed:
            1. 0
              27 January 2024 00: 14
              Destroying bridges is one of the most popular topics on this site.
              As I understand it, of the above, only FABs have a sufficient amount of explosives (and large FABs acquired UMPC quite recently). But here the problem arises of bombers entering the enemy air defense zone.
              I’m also afraid to assume that there won’t be enough accuracy, because you need to hit the same point on the bridge a couple of times with a conventional Iskander. It’s not enough to just make a hole in the canvas; you have to actually disable the bridge.

              Although, after almost 2 years of the Northern Military District, the thought creeps into my head that if the “expensive and unprofitable” missiles had interrupted/complicated communication across the Dnieper, it would have already paid off (against the backdrop of not the most rational expenditure of other resources).
      4. 0
        14 November 2023 13: 40
        the created... complex will... fly at altitudes from 11 to 50 km.

        You can only jump to such a height, and even then on a rocket engine, not a turbojet.
        1. +1
          14 November 2023 16: 47
          MiG-25 "bounced" at 37m
    2. +6
      13 November 2023 05: 51
      We need medium-altitude UAVs with good optics, like a bayraktar, and there’s nothing for an ant to do... Attach
      1. +9
        13 November 2023 06: 52
        Reconnaissance UAVs - en masse, working in a single network, at different altitudes, with different devices, and simultaneously with attack UAVs for different purposes. The goal is identified - immediate defeat, all online. This is what should work now.
        1. +6
          13 November 2023 08: 34
          I saw a video where a bayraktar filmed Crimea from 50 km from the safe zone, the quality of the filming was excellent. And look at the quality of shooting with the K52 when they work with vortices from 7 km, it’s no longer possible to distinguish a tank from a UAZ
          1. +6
            13 November 2023 09: 20
            Something that sets my teeth on edge: look how bad the picture with the spacecraft is. About which the pilots themselves have already answered more than once or twice. The quality on the screen in the cockpit is completely different.
        2. +9
          13 November 2023 08: 55
          Reconnaissance UAVs - en masse, working in a single network, at different altitudes, with different devices, and simultaneously with attack UAVs for different purposes.

          Our Defense Ministry did nothing in this direction, although our army had problems because of enemy UAVs in Georgia in 2008. Even the creation of a UAV unit as part of units or individual companies and battalions was not accomplished in 15 years. And there is only one conclusion. The leadership of the Moscow Region is unteachable.
          1. +1
            21 November 2023 08: 36
            This is an open secret.
          2. -1
            31 January 2024 12: 04
            Everyone imagines himself a strategist, seeing the battle from the side.
      2. +1
        19 November 2023 01: 28
        There are several problems here. If we can make a glider and an engine with it, then there are big problems with the filling. All kinds of electronics, software, the same optics. We still do not produce photosensitive matrices for cameras in our country. Good optics are also a problem to calculate and produce.
      3. 0
        31 January 2024 12: 02
        Yes, it’s more visible from the sofa - at one time, especially smart people worked in sharashkas and sometimes very effectively, but...!
  2. -4
    13 November 2023 05: 02
    But don’t you think that an AWACS aircraft will do the same thing when located 200 kilometers from the front line, and even to a greater depth and with greater accuracy?
    Where is the confidence about greater depth, since a high-altitude pilot can patrol much closer to the line? But there is also the question of the number of cars and the cost of both the plane and the hour.
    And the same applies to a device like the Global Hawk. The drone will fly quietly, and its operators will conduct surveillance while in absolute safety on the ground.
    Without satellite connection? Oh well.
    1. +11
      13 November 2023 05: 19
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Where is the confidence about greater depth, since a high-altitude pilot can patrol much closer to the line? But there is also the question of the number of cars and the cost of both the plane and the hour.

      How can you be sure that the “high-altitude aircraft” will be allowed to patrol near the LBS? They completely excluded air defense systems and interceptors with air-to-air missiles... You are right about the cost, but it depends on many factors and in particular on how many people will be attracted to this production.
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Without satellite connection? Oh well.

      (PDF) Unmanned Aerial Vehicle Positioning System
      Onboard equipment, ground equipment, and special software have been developed and tested to accurately determine the relative coordinates of a helicopter-type unmanned aerial vehicle relative to a rapid deployment runway. in the absence of signals from global navigation systems

      Well yes... hi
      1. -9
        13 November 2023 05: 29
        Quote: ROSS 42
        How can you be sure that the “high-altitude aircraft” will be allowed to patrol near the LBS?

        Who will ban it? The Chinese balloon did not fly unchecked over the United States for 40 to 30 km, and it was not shot down because they were afraid for private property on earth. And besides, even 50 km from the line is not close at all, but much closer than 200 km.
        Quote: ROSS 42
        Air defense systems and interceptors with air-to-air missiles were completely excluded...
        Precisely, partly because they are excluded when using Global Hawks, and partly because not everyone has such a technique, but the XIhlov no longer have it...
        1. +13
          13 November 2023 06: 45
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          And who will ban?

          Really awesome!
          No one forbade Erdogan from getting rid of the Su-24... It’s Putin who fights with white gloves - they are roaming around the Kremlin with drones, and here in the Northern Military District, evil spirits are walking around Kiev as if Po-2s were left in the arsenal of the Aerospace Forces. They would have shot down the Hawk, as an accomplice of the Ukronazis, once or twice, and the air would have become cleaner...
          And we immediately ask questions, not what damage is caused to the country and the state, but what damage to personal property this action can cause. Therefore, American reconnaissance drones are working for Zelensky, British drones are attacking the Crimean bridge, the British destroyer does not see the Russian coast, the Japanese are knocking on pots in the hope of returning the islands, and the Baltic states, who owe Russia 2 efimki, are blocking the Baltic Sea...And also, "SP" can be blown up whenever and by anyone, and they can go to the Olympics in a slave uniform...
          We must not draw the attention of the world public to the situation, but resolve these issues in our favor and familiarize the global Anglo-Saxon community with the results.
          Do you yourself often listen to your neighbors’ recommendations regarding the preparation of cabbage soup?
          1. -6
            13 November 2023 07: 40
            Quote: ROSS 42
            Really awesome!
            No one forbade Erdogan from getting rid of the Su-24... It’s Putin who fights with white gloves - they are roaming around the Kremlin with drones, and here in the Northern Military District, evil spirits are walking around Kiev as if Po-2s were left in the arsenal of the Aerospace Forces. They would have shot down the Hawk, as an accomplice of the Ukronazis, once or twice, and the air would have become cleaner...

            There is no way to argue on the merits, bring in politics, yeah.
          2. -6
            13 November 2023 08: 22
            Ross 42, with your traditional whining, you are taking the discussion in a different direction, we are talking about something else.
            1. +14
              13 November 2023 09: 17
              What are you talking about? About what kind of effective high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft, which in fact does not exist, but which you are going to massively use in the ongoing air defense?
              People like you have already chatted about our cool space reconnaissance, which can detect someone maneuvering at a speed of 60 km per hour in the ocean, but in fact is not able to detect a standing column, which in large numbers are freely moving around the enemy.
        2. -4
          13 November 2023 10: 37
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Who will ban it? The Chinese balloon did not fly over the USA without any control at 40 - 30 km, and it was not shot down because it was for private

          It’s strange, but the boys didn’t even know that he wasn’t shot down by a rocket from the Raptor
          1. +5
            13 November 2023 11: 45
            Quote: BORMAN82
            It’s strange, but the boys didn’t even know that he wasn’t shot down by a rocket from the Raptor

            Yes, the boys don’t know a lot of things...

            The Chinese balloon incident was an incident that began on January 28, 2023. from the Pacific Ocean a Chinese stratospheric balloon into US airspace over Alaska. The balloon crossed the entire territory of the United States and on February 4, the Americans, having launched a missile from an F-22 Raptor fighter, shot it down over the water area already Atlantic ocean and removed its wreckage from under the water for study. ... ....There is evidence and video footage indicating unsuccessful attempt to attack a balloon in Montana, from US ground or air defense systems[6][7]. Local authorities do not find an explanation for this evidence, and the military does not comment.

            This is especially cool after September 11, 09, when the US Air Force received instructions and the right to shoot down any unidentified object if its nationality cannot be established and identified automatically.
      2. +7
        13 November 2023 17: 16
        Quote: ROSS 42
        (PDF) Unmanned Aerial Vehicle Positioning System
        On-board equipment, ground equipment, and special software have been developed and tested to accurately determine the relative coordinates of a helicopter-type unmanned aerial vehicle relative to a rapid deployment runway in the absence of global navigation system signals.

        How to say. I apologize for interrupting.
        This is the good old RSBN castrated.
        Consider its effective range to be 140 meters.
        At a distance of up to 20 km, it can show KUR - Heading Angle of the Radio Station, that is, the direction to the lighthouse.
        There is no talk of exact coordinates within the range of action we are interested in - two hundred kilometers.
    2. +4
      13 November 2023 09: 36
      He's not a high-altitude climber. In reality, reconnaissance can be carried out from an altitude of 17 kilometers, and this is within the reach of a medium-range air defense system, the same Buk, for example. Not to mention modern V-B fighter missiles.
      1. +6
        13 November 2023 09: 57
        Quote from solar
        He's not a high-altitude climber. In reality, reconnaissance can be carried out from an altitude of 17 kilometers, and this is within the reach of a medium-range air defense system, the same Buk, for example. Not to mention modern V-B fighter missiles.

        The altitude is high, but there is also the launch range of the missile defense system, but it decreases with altitude and the removal of an aircraft 50 km from the contact line at an altitude of 17 is already too tough for most air defense systems...
        1. +10
          13 November 2023 14: 39
          If we talk about high-altitude reconnaissance means, then we don’t need an airplane capable of spending 1 hour at an altitude of 21 km with one pilot, we need a high-altitude solar-powered UAV capable of hovering at these altitudes for more than 3 months. And such UAVs already exist, although not here. And the cost of 1 hour of flight of such a UAV cannot be compared with an airplane.
          Such a UAV can be either a high-altitude repeater or carry out RTR and optical reconnaissance.
          1. 0
            14 November 2023 04: 57
            We need a high-altitude solar-powered UAV capable of hovering at these altitudes for more than 3 months. And such UAVs already exist

            There is only one such UAV - Zephyr, and in a single copy,

            and it has no payload - the entire device weighs 50 kg,
            and for reconnaissance from 20 km you need very powerful (and heavy) optics, I’m already silent about the surveillance radar, which will weigh hundreds of kg,

            these are still only toys, the R&D stage, and practical application there is still like before the Moon, it may not be possible to launch a heavy solar-powered device into the stratosphere at all,

            1. DO
              0
              12 December 2023 20: 32
              Johnson Smithson
              and it has no payload - the entire device weighs 50 kg,
              and for reconnaissance from 20 km you need very powerful (and heavy) optics, I’m already silent about the surveillance radar, which will weigh hundreds of kg,

              Yes, by definition, this solar-powered aircraft will not be able to handle a radar - primarily due to its power supply, and it will not be able to handle its weight either.
              But this “solar” reconnaissance aircraft must install the optics and communications system, otherwise there is no point in it. This may be why the glider (if it is created, of course) will weigh more than 50 kg.
        2. +7
          13 November 2023 16: 35
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          The altitude is high, but there is also the launch range of the missile defense system, but it decreases with altitude and the removal of an aircraft 50 km from the contact line at an altitude of 17 is already too tough for most air defense systems...

          For those air defense systems that can reach a target at a height of 17 km, a range of 50 km is just right for them. For air defense missile systems, low-altitude targets pose a much greater problem.
          In general, a high-altitude, low-speed, low-maneuverable target is the dream of any air defense system. smile
          1. 0
            13 November 2023 20: 30
            But such an air defense system will also be clearly visible, and then a competition will begin to see who can arrive the fastest. By the way, BKO is mandatory on expensive reconnaissance aircraft
            1. +1
              14 November 2023 10: 19
              Quote from alexoff
              But such an air defense system will also be clearly visible, and then a competition will begin to see who can arrive the fastest.

              The main thing here is to secretly move into position and camouflage yourself from visual reconnaissance means. All the same, until target designation is issued “from above,” the radio station does not go on air.
              And then... then comes the tough arithmetic of war - the exchange of equipment from a serial complex for a unique high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft.
          2. +1
            14 November 2023 05: 11
            For those air defense systems that can reach a target at a height of 17 km, a range of 50 km is just right for them.

            we wrote above about the Buk, it’s just too tough for it, at 50 km it will only reach 15 km in altitude
            1. +3
              14 November 2023 10: 28
              Quote from Johnson Smithson
              we wrote above about the Buk, it’s just too tough for it, at 50 km it will only reach 15 km in altitude

              If a custom high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft being developed can be shot down by a massive air defense complex of army-level ground forces, then this topic should be closed immediately. smile
          3. 0
            14 November 2023 08: 19
            Quote: Alexey RA

            For those air defense systems that can reach a target at a height of 17 km, a range of 50 km is just right for them. For air defense missile systems, low-altitude targets pose a much greater problem.
            In general, a high-altitude, low-speed, low-maneuverable target is the dream of any air defense system.

            But no, it’s already written below, but I’ll add that in order to somehow survive, the air defense system must be at least 25 km, or better yet further, from the line, so 50 km turns into 75.
            1. +1
              14 November 2023 10: 25
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              But no, it’s already written below, but I’ll add that in order to somehow survive, the air defense system must be at least 25 km, or better yet further, from the line, so 50 km turns into 75.

              This means we need an analogue of the latest modifications of the S-300/400 with its 48N6 and 40N6.
    3. 0
      13 November 2023 14: 44
      Well, regarding the cost, I will note that the same U2 was such a cheap reconnaissance aircraft.
      The reconnaissance equipment that was installed on it was more complex, technologically advanced and more expensive than the aircraft itself. For this reason, U2 has outlived the aircraft that were supposed to replace them (high-speed SR blackbirds) and operate in parallel with reconnaissance UAVs, which in theory were also supposed to displace them.
      The idea of ​​a stratospheric reconnaissance aircraft is a good one!
      The problem is that even if they take it up, by the time the first car appears, many years will have passed.
      We already have new generations of engines (PD engine series). The glider of stratospheric gliders is quite simple. The cabin can be made either single or double. Let the reconnaissance load of the apparatus consist of two types of sets. Devices for monitoring the air situation and target designation. And a set for observing the earth. If it flies at an altitude of 15-17 km. it will no longer be available to some air defense systems. And given the fact that it will not fly over targets, but at a considerable distance (over allied or neutral territories), the number of air defense systems capable of shooting it down will become even smaller.
      And if you equip the plane with its own radar under the fairing, capable of observing incoming air defense missiles. Then it will be possible to equip the aircraft with 1-2 anti-missiles, which will protect the reconnaissance aircraft from 1-2 enemy air defense missiles, which they still reach and will buy time for the reconnaissance aircraft to leave the air defense missiles reach zone.
      1. +1
        13 November 2023 15: 17
        Quote: Mustachioed Kok
        We already have new generations of engines (PD engine series).

        Is there at least one actually operating aircraft (military or civilian) with PD series engines?
  3. +3
    13 November 2023 05: 07
    Thank you, Roman!
    I read it in one sitting. I indicated a couple of errors (the letters were not finished).
    I am amazed at the inquisitiveness of your mind and the energy with which you force us - “armchair experts” - to tear out our vests on our chests and our hair in accessible places, while managing to throw thunder and lightning at the author and interlocutors.
    The topic is more than relevant. The benefits of AWACS have been proven. Not only that, it has given impressive results, but our clumsily built system of production motivation, coupled with the Central Bank and defective management, is weights on our feet, chains on the body of progress.
    The idea of ​​a reconnaissance UAV has a right to exist. It remains to find those who will embody this idea in metal and plastic.
    hi
  4. +5
    13 November 2023 05: 10
    Who’s stopping you from removing the pilots from the M-55 and making a drone? Bad satellite connection? So again, an airplane with a repeater will help increase the communication range.
    I understand that removing the pilots means handing over the plane, but again, not the whole plane, and the change will not affect anything critically important. If the An-2 could be converted into drones, then the M-55 will not be difficult. hi
    1. +2
      13 November 2023 06: 03
      Quote: jonht
      Who’s stopping you from removing the pilots from the M-55 and making a drone? Bad satellite connection? So again, an airplane with a repeater will help increase the communication range.
      I understand that removing the pilots means handing over the plane, but again, not the whole plane, and the change will not affect anything critically important. If the An-2 could be converted into drones, then the M-55 will not be difficult. hi

      An-2 was an attack drone. Most likely, it even took off with the crew, who were later evacuated. What can we say about the landing of a stratospheric jet plane?
      1. +4
        13 November 2023 07: 39
        I'm not an aviation expert, but as far as I know, all modern airliners have the ability to land automatically. And they are all reactive. There is rather another problem here; these systems were not installed on the M-55, and even then I’m not sure. hi
        On the other hand, if you want to climb higher, balloons will help you, but there is another problem, controllability and speed.....
    2. +11
      13 November 2023 09: 09
      It’s good that you remembered the An-2 - we can’t build a replacement for it for 30 years, and you have already started producing the M-55 with a flick of the wrist? I remind you that this is an artifact of a highly developed civilization, even if there is a factory, drawings, and equipment, there are very likely no specialists capable of building such aircraft. How many dozens of new Tu-160s have already been built?
  5. +13
    13 November 2023 05: 17
    ABOUT! Article 60. Obviously written BEFORE the APPEARANCE of the old c125. If we do not consider the fantastic height of 50 km, then everything that is described is amazed by almost everything on earth, iris, patriot, s300, s125, s200. Give the author a calendar already
    1. +6
      13 November 2023 16: 38
      Quote: Foundling
      ABOUT! Article 60. Obviously written BEFORE the APPEARANCE of the old c125.

      More likely, S-75.
      The S-125 is an air defense system that was originally supposed to work against targets at low altitudes, which enemy aircraft flew to after the appearance of the S-75.
      1. 0
        17 November 2023 08: 38
        Thank you! Indeed an article from the era preceding s-75
  6. 0
    13 November 2023 05: 25
    It is clear that an airplane like the M-55 will not lift a lot of equipment, and even if it does lift it, it will not look as far as we would like. That’s why they will drive him to a height, “suspending” him above the battlefield.
    Strange saying ...
    The UKR-RL variant is a radar reconnaissance module with the fourth generation Pika-M radar. The radar is two-way, low-element, with a passive phased array antenna. Resolution is about 0,3 m in SAR/ISAR mode, range is more than 300 km.
    With such resolution and reconnaissance range, why then “hang over the battlefield”??? It’s quite possible to walk along the LBS, above our territory, at a distance of 50...100 km, identifying targets in the depths of the enemy’s defense at a range of up to 200...250 km... Enough for the eyes
    1. +4
      13 November 2023 12: 13
      Quote: svp67
      Enough for the eyes

      What is enough for the eyes?
      Patriot will get this plane from 50 and 100 km from the LBS. Not a single pilot of ours will board this death capsule.
      So that our pilots can bomb the same Avdiivka a couple of times a day, dozens of drones comb enemy territory to a depth of 50 km, looking for enemy air defense systems. The point of such a scout is if everything is done for him.
      Our main problem is in the processing and implementation of intelligence data. We have thousands of Orlans, which the Ukrainians don’t even try to shoot down, because they know for sure that the lion’s share of the information will go into the “trash can.” We dream of swarms of drones with artificial intelligence, but we cannot use AI to process intelligence information from the same eagle.
      1. -1
        14 November 2023 02: 26
        Quote: ism_ek
        but we can’t use AI to process intelligence information from the same eagle
        Sorry, but you can't use AI? I sympathize with you. Well, someone else will use it. Yes, actually there is a problem, but no more than in any routine work. God knows when anti-ship missiles recognized silhouettes and made decisions. Nowadays AI is not being integrated anywhere. Tell which student he will write you a processing program
  7. +4
    13 November 2023 05: 26
    The second weakness is that the enemy can easily adjust his actions so that the satellite does not see anything. If you know the orbit and time of passage over the area, you can “close” it. And here is the problem: the satellite will not hover over the area, it will not be returned to the point. He will fly on and hello, until the next passage.

    Are geostationary satellites unknown to the author?

    Aviation. In general, everything here has already been invented, and for a long time. There are aircraft such as AWACS, whiche:
    - fly outside the range of enemy air defense;
    - can conduct reconnaissance and carry out target designation for any types of troops;
    -
    have a very decent time in the air.

    If you don’t like geostationary satellites, why not use different balloons or probes, which will not only be cheaper, but will also be able to stay in the stratosphere for weeks?

    The MiG-31 can fly very fast and high.

    Speed ​​for a scout is not so important, and rather even harmful. Especially in our case, when there is no need to cross the entire territory of Ukraine back and forth at speed.

    And we have another plane. We go into history, and there we find the creation of the Myasishchev Design Bureau, which made its first flight in 1982. Fanfare - on stage M-17 “Stratosphere” / M-55 “Geophysics”.

    Russia has begun developing a stratospheric target search system based on the Soviet M-55 Geophysicist aircraft..


    From the history of the aircraft

    In the 1960s, the development bureau of V. M. Myasishchev began developing an aircraft capable of intercepting American reconnaissance balloons.
    The second flight model of the M-17 Stratosphere took off in 1982, and in the 1990s it set many altitude and rate of climb records for aircraft weighing from 16 to 20 tons equipped with a single turbojet engine.
    Later, when the need to intercept balloons disappeared, the project was developed as the M-55 Geophysics high-altitude subsonic reconnaissance aircraft.
    The M-55 is capable of flying for a long time at an altitude of more than 20 kilometers and carrying on board scientific equipment weighing up to 2 tons.
    In 2015, they wrote that the M-55 “Geophysics” will be used as part of the StratoClim project starting in 2016. Scientists from 26 European research institutes gathered to use the data collected by the aircraft to create a model of the Earth's atmosphere and predict climate change for decades to come.
    1. KCA
      +13
      13 November 2023 07: 13
      Geostationary orbit is an altitude of 38 km, and what will a reconnaissance scout reconnaissance from there? Should Hubble turn towards Earth?
      1. 0
        13 November 2023 13: 12
        A dozen military Hubbles fly in low orbits; even they won’t really see anything from the geostationary station.
        1. KCA
          +1
          13 November 2023 13: 40
          They don’t fly into LEO for a long time, even though it’s rarefied, but the atmosphere slows down, the USSR launched satellites with RTGs and nuclear reactors into LEO, because solar panels will slow down the satellite in a couple of weeks, and then they launched every month, but the higher the orbit, not geostationary , of course, the worse the resolution and the longer the orbital flight time over the point, all objects in orbit are recorded, the flight time is known, it’s autumn, ships are burning in the sky, the cloudiness is constant, there is IR and radar, but this will not give the whole picture of the location or movement of the aircraft Russia, and until mid-January the clouds will hang
    2. +3
      13 November 2023 19: 26
      “Are geostationary satellites unknown to the author?” - rather, the parameters of the geostationary orbit are unknown to you. What and most importantly how are you going to look at the surface from a distance of 35 km? Observation satellites fly at an altitude of 786 - 150 km. And geostationary stations can only be used as retroslators, or general photographs of the Earth’s surface can be taken as weather satellites. Here's a picture from geostationary Meteosat-500
  8. +8
    13 November 2023 05: 52
    Another nonsense! Let's go our separate ways
  9. -1
    13 November 2023 06: 22
    Isn't there any consideration to create a drone based on the M-55?
  10. +7
    13 November 2023 06: 28
    Quote: alystan
    Are geostationary satellites unknown to the author?

    The orbital altitude of geostationary satellites is 36 KILOMETERS.
    How much can you see from such a distance?
    1. 0
      14 November 2023 16: 23
      The geostationary one will of course hang quite high. I provided it only as an option and in response to:

      The second weakness is that the enemy can easily adjust his actions so that the satellite does not see anything. If you know the orbit and time of passage over the area, you can “close” it. And here is the problem: the satellite will not hover over the area, it will not be returned to the point. He will fly on and hello, until the next passage.

      In May 2023, the first small radar satellite, Condor-FKA, was launched and placed into orbit on a Soyuz-2.1a rocket with a Fregat upper stage. The device is designed to obtain high-resolution radar information in order to provide round-the-clock all-weather sounding of the continental regions of the Earth and the waters of the World Ocean.

      The satellite will be launched into orbit at an altitude of 500-550 km and will begin operating normally from January 1, 2024. The complete constellation of Condor-FKA radar satellites will be formed and will begin operation after the launch of the second device, which is scheduled for June 2024.

      Devices of this series are also used for the needs of the Russian Armed Forces.

      The constellation of these satellites will be able to receive detailed images with a resolution of up to one meter and examine the earth's surface in a strip of up to 120 km in survey mode.

      The only pity is that there will be only two satellites in this grouping. But it turns out that work is underway to modernize them.

      On March 23, 2023, Roscosmos representative Vitaly Mironichev, during a meeting with representatives of executive authorities on the specifics of fulfilling applications for space imaging, announced that the Condor-FKA-M spacecraft is currently in the development of design documentation.

      And on May 27, 2023, the chief designer in the field - the director of the Joint Directorate of Space Systems of NPO Mashinostroeniya, Alexey Rabochiy, told the media that The main and most interesting modernization is a change in the geometry of the radar, which will allow achieving a resolution of up to 0,5 meters during detailed shooting. In addition, the available power of the space platform and the energy characteristics of the radar have been increased, which will significantly improve the radio characteristics of the resulting radar images.
  11. +7
    13 November 2023 06: 42
    It’s a disaster when a shoemaker starts baking pies, and a cake maker starts making boots,

    The same thing happens with Military Review. when articles are written by people who understand nothing about what they are undertaking to write about! negative
    1. 0
      13 December 2023 22: 38
      What else could happen on a cross between Murzilka and Young Technician!
  12. +7
    13 November 2023 06: 46
    Or maybe we shouldn’t reinvent the wheel and do it the normal way? Build at least a dozen more AWACS aircraft and increase the satellite constellation. True, this immediately leads to a bunch of questions about qualified personnel and factory capacity. You will still have to deal with these issues, and there is no time left to unwind. A little more time and not only will the technologies be completely lost, there will be no normal engineers, those who are now coming from institutes, in terms of level, are graduates of vocational schools from the times of the USSR. I was on a refresher course, students came to the teacher to submit a practice report, turn off the lights. I just became scared for the future.
    1. +8
      13 November 2023 08: 15
      I was on a refresher course, students came to the teacher to submit a practice report, turn off the lights. I just became scared for the future.
      It's not all that tragic. Out of a group of 18 people, there are 2 - 3 students who are smart. In my time (70s) it was the other way around - everyone understood except 2-3 idiots.
      1. +8
        13 November 2023 09: 11
        2 - 3 students who are smart This is not just tragic, this is ..... (beeped) Before the army, I studied after the 8th grade at a technical school, out of 30, 18 got a diploma, there was order, I didn’t turn in the debt, I wasn’t allowed to attend the exam, I didn’t pass the exam, I was expelled. After the army, after working a little, I studied by correspondence at the university. The time was right for the destruction of everything and everyone, so it was already in the order of things that the tails of the first year were handed in in the fifth, and not only for us, for the full-time students too. Moreover, they blatantly extorted money from us, whether you know it or not. You have to pass a certain amount of money on the exam or you won’t get a positive grade. If it weren’t for the foundation laid in the technical school of the USSR, in which I wrote coursework more difficult than a diploma at the university, I would have come out of it as an ignoramus. I hope at least something should change in such a system, now when you look at 70% with honors diplomas, it takes you aback! Previously, there was one or two per group, and not in each group. Otherwise, as I wrote above, in the near future we will be some kind of “Honduras”.
        1. +1
          13 November 2023 20: 14
          2 - 3 students who understand This is not just tragic, it’s ..... (beeped)
          Your suggestions? Hit yourself against a wall? I won't. I work with those who are.
    2. +2
      13 November 2023 12: 43
      Quote: Alex 1970
      Or maybe we shouldn’t reinvent the wheel and do it the normal way? Build at least a dozen more AWACS aircraft and increase the satellite constellation. True, this immediately leads to a bunch of questions about qualified personnel and factory capacity. You will still have to deal with these issues, and there is no time left to unwind. A little more time and not only will the technologies be completely lost, there will be no normal engineers, those who are now coming from institutes, in terms of level, are graduates of vocational schools from the times of the USSR. I was on a refresher course, students came to the teacher to submit a practice report, turn off the lights. I just became scared for the future.

      With your zeal...
      The Russian Federation, in principle, produces two or three heavy aircraft per year, and with AWACS literally one aircraft every two years. Now, with the wave of a magic wand, a dozen of these machines should appear. Be realistic, the Russian Federation is unlikely to implement such a program now, especially in a short time.
  13. +9
    13 November 2023 06: 49
    Yes, no one is going to create a tropospheric reconnaissance aircraft based on the M-55. It’s just that this aircraft is the best suited for testing as a flying laboratory, on which algorithms for the operation of UCRs for various purposes and online data transmission to control points will be tested. And then, most likely, UAV-based reconnaissance variants will be implemented.
  14. -1
    13 November 2023 08: 09
    Russia did not have a sufficient number of AWACS aircraft and will not have it in the near future.

    Entering into mass production of heavy UAVs (tens and even hundreds of units) with a complex of reconnaissance radar equipment and nuclear engines like the Burevestnik cruise missiles.
    Imagine how these reconnaissance officers can fly non-stop for years along the borders of Russia and potential adversaries, covering the entire situation and, if necessary, targeting strike weapons and air defense/missile defense systems.
    1. 0
      15 November 2023 15: 23
      assault (Dmitry Kurochkin)
      Entering into mass production of heavy UAVs (tens and even hundreds of units) with a complex of reconnaissance radar equipment and nuclear engines like the Burevestnik cruise missiles.
      Can you imagine how these reconnaissance aircraft can fly non-stop along the borders of Russia for years?

      Should I put the radioactive trace in my pocket?
  15. +8
    13 November 2023 08: 12
    That is, fly at altitudes from 11 to 50 km.
    The author, a machine that flies at 11 km and one that flies at 50 km are fundamentally different machines. Moreover, even for 30 km no one has them yet.
    1. +2
      13 November 2023 13: 04
      Quote: Aviator_
      The author, a machine that flies at 11 km and one that flies at 50 km are fundamentally different machines.

      Yes, the author does not particularly touch on this topic. He points out in the article that
      If you believe the media, then the announced strike and reconnaissance complex being created in the interests of the Russian Armed Forces will be stratospheric. That is, fly at altitudes from 11 to 50 km.

      From 11 yes, but up to 50 it’s 17 and 21, and it’s not at all necessary 49 laughing
      In general, it smacks of another “analogue network”.
      From 0 to 11 the traffic is like during rush hour in a metropolis. From 11 to 21 there are some, occasionally, like on a remote country road. And at 21-50-100 it is dull and empty. It’s easier to gain a foothold in space (soon there will be “traffic jams” of satellites laughing ) than there. And many would like to settle above 21, but they can’t... yet.
  16. +4
    13 November 2023 08: 19
    In general, yes, the idea is crooked, but a drone based on the M-55 is already better. Increasing the payload due to the crew and part of the equipment. A pure intelligence officer without any fantasies.
  17. +4
    13 November 2023 08: 49
    AWACS aircraft, satellites - it’s easier, but... dangerous for your career. Here the deadlines will be tight and if you don’t provide anything, they may ask for them. And here is another Death Star. And under it there are infusions, beautiful cartoons, building business models, etc... And then it’s easy to move everything to the right. No, for our fanfare and show-offs from the Ligovsky gateway, this plane is exactly what we need.
  18. +7
    13 November 2023 09: 18
    Where are the newest radar aircraft??? Based on other physical data...
    1. +9
      13 November 2023 09: 55
      In other physical dimensions laughing
  19. 0
    13 November 2023 09: 43
    If you throw out both chairs, all the life support and other paraphernalia for the life of the “leather bags” and install the equipment from the drone, and pour kerosene on the considerable difference, then maybe something will work out, but for now we’ll see...
  20. +7
    13 November 2023 10: 25
    In 1994, still using the remnants of Soviet inertia, five serial M-55s were laid at SmAZ, however, assembly was stopped.
    The two cars were 90% assembled.
    Now they will be brought to fruition, simultaneously using budget money for construction from scratch and will be presented with pomp as an unprecedented achievement.
    1. +5
      13 November 2023 10: 30
      I'll never be surprised...
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. +2
    13 November 2023 11: 07
    A stratospheric reconnaissance complex based on a drone is a very tempting thing. Especially if it is something with an electric motor and solar panels. And the flight time is many hours. And a flight altitude of 30+ km. But is this feasible?
  23. +5
    13 November 2023 11: 22
    In short, a THEORETICAL ATTEMPT TO INVENT U-2 in the vastness of VO with a lag of 65 years.
    U-2: Start of operation 1957 / Produced 86 / Crashed and shot down 30 / Nothing is known about these atmospheric future flights when they will not work: except for cutting.
    New times, new scientific achievements, new technologies, new materials... development and production - at our pace for decades.
    1. +1
      13 November 2023 12: 30
      Do not forget about two fundamental modifications (1981 and 1994), which significantly changed the composition of the equipment and the tasks solved by the U-2.
  24. +4
    13 November 2023 12: 49
    Oh, these fairy tales!.. Oh, these storytellers!..
    A two-seater aircraft capable of climbing to a height of 21,5 km and flying there for some time (1 hour) and carrying a payload of 1 kg.

    And why does he spend an hour scouting and admonishing?
    At an altitude of 17 km, the plane can stay much longer, up to 6,5 hours.

    It's already uncomfortable there. Powers won't let you lie, and he was taller.
  25. +1
    13 November 2023 13: 02
    the idea of ​​ersatz triumphs. An ersatz reconnaissance aircraft instead of a normal AWACS aircraft,

    It's simple
    There are few existing AWACS. But it is not possible to increase the quantity due to problems with the element base at the moment
    Large high-altitude reconnaissance UAVs require a permanent, stable satellite data exchange channel. Now this is not available with so many communication satellites.
    But intelligence and target designation are needed now.
    Hence the search for affordable solutions.
    1. 0
      14 November 2023 02: 49
      So the problem is not with airplanes, they exist, all this cool electronics is not there. The aircraft for the A100 was issued 10 years ago, but the radar was turned on only 8 years later. How long the new radars will last is unknown.
  26. +7
    13 November 2023 14: 18
    "Mom-dad..." We laughed and parted ways, but officials in the Moscow Region will take it at face value. Well, what kind of stratospheres? Where is Premier? How many A-50s (and U2s with good REP and modernized Shmel) are in service, plus tankers for them? Less than two years have passed since the “wise men” in the Moscow Region “guessed” about the need to produce UAVs (a great conclusion, thanks to the Persians and Zakharov, our bellies would not have been able to cope) Now the “brilliant” use of the A-50 coupled with the S-400 (with cries about “in 20 days we’ll collect all the F-16s”) and again - some “stratospheric aircraft” instead of rushing for the A-100. GDP sometimes surprises with its personnel blindness: loyalty is a good thing, but who will do the work?
  27. +3
    13 November 2023 14: 37
    The next "overshoe" was put into operation and is being praised and praised.
    And when it’s satisfying and peaceful, they begin to call and groan at everything Soviet.
  28. +6
    13 November 2023 14: 59
    The MiG-31 made by X knows when is still relevant and dangerous
  29. +5
    13 November 2023 15: 36
    What years those were!
    Ten years before satellites
    In 1949, the USSR carried out its first atomic bomb test, and just a year later the country began to aggressively defend its airspace, intercepting any aircraft that approached its border. The world's first nuclear power, the United States, has lost both its monopoly and leadership.
    In 1953, the US Air Force began looking for a contractor who could develop an aircraft with a service ceiling of about 21, covering a distance of about 000 km without refueling. At this time, the MiG-5000 remained the best Soviet interceptor.
    In addition, the plane needed a camera with a resolution that would allow it to view objects no larger than 70 cm from a given height.
    Lockheed contracted with James Baker of Harvard University and Richard Scott Perkin of Perkin-Elmer to develop and manufacture a limited series of cameras that would have the required resolution and would still fit within the aircraft's payload of just over 200 kg.
    Our time, 2016. The American company Northrop Grumman conducted the first tests of the SYERS-2 multispectral electron-optical camera on the RQ-4B Global Hawk strategic unmanned aerial vehicle. According to Flightglobal, the tests were carried out at the company's airport in Palmdale, California. The tests were considered successful; The camera in conjunction with Northrop Grumman on-board equipment worked without failures. SYERS-2 is the primary instrument of the U-2 Dragon Lady reconnaissance aircraft.
    Tests of the SYERS-2 camera on the Global Hawk were conducted as part of the testing of the universal payload adapter. It was thanks to him that it became possible to attach the SYERS-2 and OBC cameras used on the U-2 to the drone. The adapter allows you to attach a payload with a total weight of up to 544 kilograms to a strategic drone.
    1. +3
      13 November 2023 23: 25
      On June 24-25, specialists from the Geoscan Group of Companies and employees of the Federal Rice Research Center (Krasnodar) tested a new Russian multispectral camera at the experimental sites of the Federal Scientific Center. The purpose of the work is to evaluate the characteristics of equipment in real conditions, as well as to develop methodological recommendations for inspecting rice crops using multispectral cameras.

      Geoscan Gemini was used as a carrier for the new equipment: the payload was installed in place of the Sony UMC-R10C. Previously, the multispectral camera was used only on the Geoscan 201 and Geoscan 401 complexes.
  30. +5
    13 November 2023 16: 16
    When I read articles about our super-dupers, it’s like reading science fiction. After 20 years of Putin's rule, we cannot impose any sanctions against unfriendly countries. Because we ourselves are completely dependent on these countries. All such articles should end with the phrase: “But under Putin, this is impossible!”
    1. -5
      13 November 2023 23: 19
      What kind of addiction are you, victims of propaganda? The country basically produces what we need itself. Yes and more! And what does Putin have to do with it? In order to cover our own needs completely for the entire range, the population must be at least 400 million; even the United States is not able to produce everything on its own. And this is not Putin’s fault, but on the contrary, we began to produce a lot of our own things. A smart guy has been found, he doesn’t understand shit and is talking all sorts of nonsense
  31. The comment was deleted.
  32. +2
    13 November 2023 22: 16
    They can come up with whatever hat they can think of, just to put the money in their pocket in the end... What's next in line - to get money for the modernization of "Ilya Muromets"?
  33. -3
    13 November 2023 23: 15
    The success of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is 10 Armed Forces of Ukraine per one of ours, that is, 1/10. And this despite the fact that the Ukrainian Armed Forces have more UAVs. Or maybe no more.
  34. -1
    14 November 2023 00: 34
    It is clear that an airplane like the M-55 will not lift much equipment, and what it does lift will not look as far as we would like. That’s why they will drive him to a height, “suspending” him above the battlefield.

    And instead of building normal aircraft, with normal equipment, the idea of ​​an ersatz triumphs again. An ersatz reconnaissance aircraft instead of a normal AWACS aircraft, even instead of the same Tu-214R, of which as many as TWO were produced. Ersatz tank T-54 instead of T-90 and so on.


    In fact, a reconnaissance aircraft directly above the battlefield could potentially be more effective in detecting the same cruise missiles and enemy aircraft than one hovering 200 km away. AWACS aircraft.
    Of course, if the M-55 or its analogue is indeed unattainable in height for enemy air defense.

    From 200 km. the target on the radar can be seen mainly “head-on” or in profile. Those. into those projections where designers are trying to achieve minimal signal reflection.

    While a high-altitude reconnaissance can see the target to a much greater extent from above, which gives a stronger reflected radio signal. I believe the optical sensors of a high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft can detect the thermal signature of the engine, even when the enemy is flying in our direction. Here, all the enemy’s stealth technologies come to an immediate end.

    Of course, an AWACS aircraft with powerful radars and a large crew has its advantages.
    In general, both reconnaissance technologies can successfully complement each other.
  35. 0
    14 November 2023 02: 52
    Mig31 and M55 are a 40-year history. Which has long passed. And there is no point in trying to squeeze something else out of them. It is necessary to design and build from scratch (if, of course, you have the brains and resources for this) high-altitude mid-size drones that are capable of flying for 15-20 hours at a distance of hundreds or thousands of kilometers from the operator.
  36. +1
    14 November 2023 13: 36
    The satellite flies in its orbit and it is not so easy to direct it to the right place.

    But he doesn’t need to be “directed” and no one is directing him! It was just necessary to launch satellites, and not hold Olympics with championships!
  37. 0
    17 November 2023 11: 11
    Dear author, the engine for the M-55 is called by representatives of UEC Aviadvigatel PS-30V12.
  38. 0
    18 November 2023 23: 08
    The article describes a beautiful aircraft with outstanding altitude characteristics. The smallest thing is not specified - what engines will lift this miracle to an altitude of 20...50 km. Well, then, how long will this plane rise to such a height? So far, only one type of engine is visible - rocket. But how long can an aircraft with such an engine stay in a position or in a given area? I recommend that the author of the article look for information on the Messerschmitt comet and X-15.
  39. 0
    20 November 2023 16: 53
    My opinion....
    I emphasize that the reconnaissance complex must be stratospheric, networked, and based on AI and UAVs. Have a refueling function.
    And as for the skeptics...
    Maybe, based on the “analysis” of the Wright brothers’ aircraft, you can evaluate the capabilities of the MIG-41?????
  40. -1
    21 November 2023 08: 27
    What do we have? Chatting and drinking money and a loud fart on the way out.
  41. -1
    22 November 2023 17: 27
    For those who haven't read it.
    There are very few carriers of AWACS in the Russian Federation, they must be protected. Since the doctrine of the Russian Federation is defense, i.e. the carrier is not on enemy territory, then the most effective and cheapest carrier of AWACS is an airship.
    Installing AWACS on a stationary stratospheric unmanned airship is several times cheaper than an airplane and a satellite. Airship with a payload of 60-100 tons. The useful weight is 25 tons of equipment, motors, batteries, solar panels, diesel. fuel, generators, antennas, transmitters, receivers, etc. A set of antennas covering a range from meters to millimeters is installed. Scanning, both mechanical and phase passive, active antenna array, plus optical and thermal radars. Operating altitude above 20 km. The airship can operate either stationary on a cable cable (the height is limited by the performance characteristics of the cable cable) or in free flight. In free flight it can rise to a height of 35-40 km. Continuous operation time at height, 6-12 months (lowered and serviced). The airship is launched to a given point and maintains the given coordinates with electric motors. In the stationary version, the airship is connected to the ground by a cable cable. Via a cable cable (two cores: optical fiber and 2 copper wires for 10 kV), power is supplied to the airship, control is carried out, information is retrieved, etc. On the ground there is a diesel generator, a winch, a control service, receiving and processing information. The cable rope is not load-bearing, it only supports itself (estimated weight of the cable rope is 6 tons). In free flight, power comes from a generator and solar panels. At an altitude of 20 (35) km, the optical visible horizon is 535 (709) km, direct radio visibility is 1000 km. Such an airship - AWACS plus optical and thermal detection, allows you to detect and track any flying object, even an ultra-small drone, an inflated balloon, a bird, and also ground objects. The AWACS on the airship will make it possible to close the holes that the Russian air defense has today. The weather doesn't affect it. It is unlikely to be shot down at such a height. The airship can have air-to-air missiles on board. All the information is on the Internet.
    1. DO
      0
      12 December 2023 20: 58
      Airships with radar on board are adequate to detect a missile strike in areas of the Russian borders with countries with which there is no military conflict today.
      In addition, it is possible that tethered radar airships today would be effective over Russian strategic targets and cities. Perhaps, in the depths of Russian territory, radar airships would have an acceptable chance of surviving attacks by drones and Ukrainian Armed Forces missiles, being covered by other air defense systems.
      However, on the territory of the Northern Military District, reconnaissance radar airships would be priority targets for the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Consequently, they will inevitably and fairly quickly be shot down by the enemy, who will spend any available resources to destroy them.
  42. 0
    27 January 2024 00: 27
    If you have the A-50 (or even the A-100), there may be no need to reinvent the wheel.
    But the construction of new A-50s depends on the filling - in principle, a couple of countries in the world can do it, it’s really difficult.
    If the equipment for a stratospheric reconnaissance aircraft is cheaper (due, for example, to a shorter range), then great. Perhaps this is an elegant solution and an excellent way out of the situation.
    On paper, the idea of ​​a plane that flies too high for air defense (a combination of high and far) sounds cool.