Military Review

What are the stealth bombers U-2 and F-117 like?

47


F-117 and Y-2. You probably know them: the first is a stealth superbomber, the second is ...
If you, dear reader, hope to meet here history about the legendary high-altitude reconnaissance U-2 "Dragon Lady", I have to disappoint you: that U-2, which will be discussed below, is just a percale biplane designed by N.N. Polikarpov.
"Stealth" and "Kukuruznik" - two legendary aircraft that have become popular favorites. Rolls of movies were made about them and libraries of books were written.

The ambitious American program for creating an invisible aircraft is a loud debut and simply a deafening finale, with footage of the shot down Invisible Radio running on TV screens. Ominous black plane, the quintessence of modern nanotechnology and innovative solutions that have turned into a global ridicule at the end of their careers. It’s amazing how much noise 64 of the Nighthoek aircraft could make (including prototypes).

The second hero of today is the anecdotal "rus-plywood", which soared for the first time in 1928. Simple as a sliver, a biplane with a 100-strong motor is reliable and easy to operate, capable of landing on any “patch” and released in 30 edition of thousands of copies.
However, on closer inspection, both cars, despite the half-century difference in age, have much more similarities than might have been supposed. “Nighthoek” and “Kukuruznik” are simply twin brothers. Do not rush to turn your finger to the temple ...

The Stealth technology is a set of measures to reduce the visibility of combat vehicles in the radar, infrared and other areas of the detection spectrum, which can drastically reduce the probability of detecting a combat vehicle and thereby increase its survival rate. The creators of the F-117 sought to reduce any and all of the aircraft’s unmasking factors: the ability to reflect radar radiation, emit electromagnetic waves, emit sound, leave smoke and inversion tracks.

The impulse lights on the stealth wings went out, retreated to the inside of the radio communication antenna body, the radio altimeter and the friend-foe transponder turned off - the pitch black F-117 dissolved in the black anthracite sky over the enemy's territory.

The enemy will find "Nighthoek" only when the opened bomber casements break the EPR of the super-bomber - the F-117 will shine in the night sky, like a star of the first magnitude. Too late! - bombs have already been dropped on the target. A flash of fire splits the night, snatching for a moment from the darkness the faceted profile of stealth racing above the lower edge of the clouds. F-117 quickly "covers the tracks", the laser illumination system of the target turns off and the black plane disappears again in the night sky.

The whole operation takes twenty seconds. The duration of the preparation mode of the C-200 anti-aircraft complex missiles (including electronics, gyro spin) - 1 minute. In the early 80s, the F-117 had good chances of escaping retribution.

As a result - 1 combat loss on 3000 combat missions. The main goals of the Nighthook are objects with the strongest defense. In this case we are talking about clunky subsonic aircraft, without defensive weapons and with minimal vitality! There wasn’t even a redundant mechanical control system on Nighthawk because if electronics failed, the person was still not able to control the Lame Dwarf.
What are the stealth bombers U-2 and F-117 like?

F-117 "Nighthoek" disappeared somewhere among the stars, and in the night sky suddenly heard a quiet, almost weightless rustle ...

“Hans, have you heard nothing?”

- Heinz, relax, this is just Russian moonshine.

- No, there is something there. I clearly heard the sound - like the flap of a big bird's wing.

Heinz jumped to his feet and began to peer carefully into the starlit velvet sky, as if he felt the eyes of death staring at him from night heights. About a year ago, Heinz heard a chilling story - a gray-haired sergeant major, told how one night, lying in a trench near Vladikavkaz, one of his colleagues struck a match - and a second later a Russian fell into the trench aviation bomb crushing an unlucky smoker. Fortunately, it did not explode - and then they heard screams from the sky. Women's screams!

And here Heinz saw his invisible enemy - the stars of the “dipper” of the Big Bear blinked one after the other, after a moment, the bright orange Arcturus flashed and flashed again. "Shize ..." - Heinz turned pale and settled to the ground. A flash of fire cracked the night, snatching out for a moment from the darkness the profile of a "stack" rushing above the treetops. The fallen Hans and Heinz no longer heard the roaring motor start, carrying the Russian night bomber to the East. And from somewhere above, voiced girlish voices were heard: “Fritz! Get for Tanya Makarova and Vera Belik! ”.

The 46 th (Taman) Guards night bomber air regiment, better known as the “Dunkin Regiment”, performed thousands of combat missions during the years of the Great Patriotic War 23! "Night witches" brought down three million kilograms of bombs on the heads of the fascists !!!
Regimental casualties - 32 man. Given that the crew of the U-2 consists of two people, the Fritz managed to shoot down no more than two dozen Russian-Russian fans throughout the war! During the whole war the regiment never went to re-formation. And this despite the fact that:
Our training aircraft was not created for military operations. Wooden biplane with two open cabins, located one after the other, and dual controls - for the pilot and navigator. Without radio communications and armor-proofs able to protect the crew from bullets, with a low-powered motor that could reach a maximum speed of 120 km / h. There was no bomb bay on the plane, the bombs were hung in the bomb racks right under the plane of the plane. There were no sights, we created them ourselves and called them PPR (simpler than the soared turnip). The amount of bomb load varied from 100 to 300 kg. On average, we took 150 — 200 kg.
- Rakobolskaya I.V., Kravtsova N.F. - “We were called night witches”

So here! Without armor, without radio, without sights and often without parachutes. The only defensive weapon is TT pistols. The intensity of the use of night bombers was so high that the girls sometimes performed 6-10 sorties overnight. Nevertheless, the Dunkin Regiment's U-2 had only one loss per thousand combat sorties! - The survival rate is ten times higher than that of an armored ground attack aircraft Il-2.

These girls know the answer to the epic verbiage "The place of women in the army"

Realizing that their main weapon is secrecy, pilots from all forces tried to reduce the likelihood of finding a plane - otherwise, the end! When bombing the German positions, they often used special tactics: the U-2 made a “hook” and, having muffled the engine, silently planned to target the enemy’s territory. Dropping bombs, the plane cut in the engine and, without turning around, left with a decrease in the direction of its airfield. Rather, rather, until the Germans came to their senses and opened heavy fire in all directions.

But occasionally there were tragedies - the beam of a German searchlight accidentally snatched the "bookcase" from the night darkness, and then the "heavenly slow-moving" was doomed. Pilots with a shudder in their voice recalled how on the approach to the goal, they saw a small airplane from their regiment floundering helplessly from searchlight rays. And from below, the predatory lines of tracer bullets stretched towards him ...

Properly chosen tactics mean a lot - “Stealth” and “Kukuruznik” acted great at night, but for both it was contraindicated to rise into the sky in broad daylight. However, the percale Y-2 still had a definite advantage in air combat — too low a speed. Too!

15 On April, X-NUMX, the American F-1953 interceptor, Starfire, spotted the North Korean U-94, which performed courier functions in the front-line area ... Do you think the American pilot received an easy target and a generous reward from his command? Now!
Starfire unsuccessfully cut circles around a slowly floating "shelf" until it finally dropped speed below 180 km / h, which caused it to lose control and crash. A curious loss is recognized by the American side.

During the Korean War, the Americans noted the considerable difficulty of intercepting "corncob" - even the appeared radar did not distinguish such specific designs with a minimum metal content. And an excessively low speed made a successful interception a very dubious event.

Miracles do not happen. The successful combat career of the U-2 is explained by two factors: the skill of the pilots and the fact that little was required of the combat aircraft at that time. The primitive U-2 fully corresponded to its status as a “night bomber”, eventually becoming one of the most effective night bombers of World War II.

The creators of the "stealth" had to be much more difficult - the coming era of radar and thermal imagers no longer allowed to design an effective stealth aircraft from improvised means. Now, after 30 years, some details of the history of the creation of the F-117 "Nighthoek" have become known - the numerous facets implemented in the architecture of the aircraft scatter the radiation of the radar in opposite directions - from which side do not irradiate "Nighthoek", this "curved mirror" will reflect the rays away from the radar antenna. The sawtooth shape of the edges of all joints, the electrically conductive coating of the cockpit canopy, cellular grids on the air intakes, ferromagnetic paint and radio absorbing coatings, special-shaped nozzles that form a “flat” jet for the rapid cooling of exhaust gases - as a result, when irradiated with radar, the reflected radiation F-117 It is difficult to distinguish from the background noise, and the “dangerous sectors” are so narrow that the radar cannot extract enough information from them.
Finally, the creators of the "stealth" were faced with the task of creating a modern combat aircraft with a powerful sighting and navigation complex, which is able to deliver tons of bombs at a transonic speed of 2 to 800 km distance.

Wonderful "grille" - nothing more than an air intake F-117

Because The main problem in creating the F-117 was to ensure the secrecy of the aircraft, the implementation of such modest flight characteristics did not cause any special difficulties: despite its fantastic appearance, the Nighkouk engines were borrowed from the conventional F / A-18 multipurpose fighter, control system elements - from the F-16 and the old T-33 training aircraft (created back in the late 40-s), and the elements of the aircraft’s electrical system from the Hercules C-130 transport. By the way, the stealth technologies themselves (ferromagnetic paints, cockpit covers, etc.) were borrowed from the well-known SR-71 and U-2 (which is a high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft).

"And I'm on corn, I, sober will not fly!"
- the laconic response of the pilot to all the perturbations of the airport chief


Night piloting of the Y-2 and F-117 is similar to driving with eyes closed. The first, by virtue of its innate primitiveness, was deprived of any complex instrument-navigation equipment. The pilot U-2 had only five main aviation instruments: a compass, an artificial horizon (determines roll and pitch angles), a speedometer, an altimeter (gauge of barometric altitude) and a variometer (gauge of the vertical speed of the aircraft). The testimony of these simple devices give a complete picture of the position of the aircraft in space. With proper skill, the pilot, guided by these testimonies, can (and should!) Lead the plane blindly. Night sortie: taking off, flying along a given route, guided by the navigator's prompts and using scant landmarks, bombing, returning to your territory — you saw a searchlight looking up — that means your own aerodrome. Everything!

Slightly "upgraded" cockpit U-2



The original cabin navigator Y-2

Naturally, in conditions of extreme stress, in complete darkness and in the absence of radio communication, sooner or later it could not end well - on the night of 10 April 1943, the landing plane of Lida Svistunova and Polina Macagon collided with another bomber standing on the airfield. In a terrible accident, three female pilots died, the fourth, Hiuaz Dospanov, was saved by a miracle.
One can only wonder at the courage of the girls, who, on 10, once a night, during a thousand days of war, flew on their "shelves" into the black gloom over the front line.

The situation with the F-117 "Nighthoek" is even more curious - during the sorties the pilots were strictly forbidden to use radio communications: all operations, up to and including refueling in the air, were carried out in radio silence conditions. It was impossible to turn on the radio altimeter. Until the last moment Incredible, but the super-plane was initially absent ... radar! - it was pointless to use the radar, otherwise “Nighthoek” would lose its secrecy.

Despite the powerful set of passive information gathering tools, high-quality night-vision devices and the inertial RAARS system for returning to the home base in automatic mode, the F-117 night flights were associated with considerable risk: at least three "Night Hawks" crashed when confronted with natural obstacles. For example, the 10 of May 1995, an F-117 aircraft, operated by US Air Force captain Kenneth Levens, lost its orientation during a night flight and collided with a mountain in New Mexico. The pilot died.

Given the complexity of night missions, the rapid change in the situation and the specific conditions of local wars, F-117 had to make combat missions more than once during daylight hours. The main condition of such an operation is the complete domination of NATO in the air. In this case, the F-117 had a considerable chance to deceive enemy radar and get unnoticed to the target, and the high flight altitude provided an additional guarantee of protection against visual detection and destruction of anti-aircraft artillery fire.

Every joke has some truth. The concepts of creating an unobtrusive F-117 strike aircraft and a simplified training (multipurpose) biplane Y-2 were completely different, as well as their age and technological level. However, when viewed from the point of view of nighttime bomb strikes, we see almost 100% similarity in the use of these planes, separated by half a century.




A rather funny picture - retired colonels Zoltan Dani and Dale Zelko bake pancakes together (Dani is the commander of the C-125 anti-aircraft battery that shot down the Invisible over Yugoslavia, Zelko is the pilot of the F-117 itself). By the way, Zoltan Dani (standing on the right) in the main specialty - baker


Who said that the F-117 had poor handling?


Author:
47 comments
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  1. FID
    FID 14 January 2013 08: 24
    +7
    Oleg, let me wrestle with you. The Americans mark the bombers with the letter "B". The F-117 is a strike aircraft, a fighter-bomber rather.
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 14 January 2013 08: 46
      +10
      The firm’s senior test pilot even said: “This is the ugliest aircraft I have ever landed on.” The wits called the plane a "limping goblin."
      1. Santa Fe
        14 January 2013 11: 54
        +2
        Quote: Alex 241
        The wits called the plane a "limping goblin."

        Original sonorous title - Wobblin 'Goblin

        Quote: Alex 241
        The firm’s senior test pilot even said: “This is the ugliest aircraft I have ever landed in”

        He flattered himself.
        It must be admitted that the "limping goblin" is a very charismatic plane.
    2. ICT
      ICT 14 January 2013 09: 45
      +7
      Of course, I apologize to Sergey, but this is casuistry (not sure about the term, but it seems like that), I also wanted to add my conclusion to U-2 and for its time was very simple in both production and management, and F-117 is very difficult to manage so in production, despite the fact that the first got under arms and needed to carry out his tasks with dignity, and the second was created for these purposes and had an eternal haemorrhage with night flights
      1. FID
        FID 14 January 2013 10: 09
        +4
        Not casuistry. The front-line bomber F-111 (in our terminology) among the Americans is listed as a strike aircraft (fighter-bomber). F means FIGHTER, which translates as a fighter, although ... of course casuistry. Simply, the language doesn’t turn. IT is called a bomber.
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 14 January 2013 10: 19
          0
          But like a fighter! Http: //www.youtube.com/watch? V = vhyjGiHks1g
        2. Alex 241
          Alex 241 14 January 2013 10: 19
          +3
          however, like a fighter !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      2. Santa Fe
        14 January 2013 11: 21
        +1
        Quote: TIT
        and the F-117 is very difficult to manage both in production

        Well, times have changed ... like air defense systems (much more difficult to control and manufacture than a German anti-aircraft gun on horse drawn traction)




        Quote: TIT
        and the F-117 is very difficult to manage

        The problem was solved at the design stage - the aircraft was electronically controlled

        Quote: TIT
        and the F-117 is very complicated ... in production

        Given that all the details are from serial aircraft

        Quote: TIT
        and the second was created for these purposes and had an eternal hemorrhoid with night flights

        Hemorrhoids were the designers of Stealth
        Pilots and technicians did not experience any special problems.
    3. Santa Fe
      14 January 2013 11: 51
      +4
      Quote: SSI
      Oleg, let me wrestle with you

      fellow angry

      Quote: SSI
      The Americans mark the bombers with the letter "B". The F-117 is a strike aircraft, a fighter-bomber rather.

      The main and only task of the F-117 is to throw laser-guided bombs

      As for indices - the story is muddy, perhaps secrecy played a role.
      And then what about the F-15E? Or with the fact that A-10 attack aircraft are listed as part of fighter air wings?
      1. FID
        FID 14 January 2013 13: 07
        +3
        Attack aircraft - they have such a classification. This is how a fighter-bomber sounds with us, or a front-line bomber.
      2. postman
        postman 15 January 2013 04: 18
        0
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        the story is muddy, perhaps secrecy played a role.

        Named until 1962 when the Tri-Service System came into effect.

        For all "exotic" aircraft types, a special call sign "117" was assigned, which was also used by the 4477th Test and Evaluation Squadron YF-113 (Captured Yak, MiG)


        Apparently, the use of the "117" radio call sign became common, and when Lockheed issued its first flight manual ("dash one" manual for aircraft), The designation F-117A was printed on the cover.

        by F avionics and parts from him from the F-16 Fighting Falcon, F / A-18 Hornet and F-15E Strike Eagle and all this is so budgetary costs (spare parts used) to keep a secret

        however, there is another version that this is a marketing move, allegedly the Air Force will buy 117 more if they are called "F" fighters, and not "B" or "A".

        F-105 Thunderchief (Republic) and F-111 Aardvark. (General Dynamics) the same
        "classic" fighters.

        / But for USDoD (4120,14L) he and his ilk 111- fighter
        1. postman
          postman 15 January 2013 04: 19
          0
          Quote: Postman
          But for USDoD (4120,14L
          1. Santa Fe
            15 January 2013 13: 06
            +1
            Well done, Vasily. As always found something interesting
            1. postman
              postman 15 January 2013 16: 06
              +1
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              SWEET_SIXTEEN

              Glad to try Comrade senior lieutenant. soldier
  2. Alex 241
    Alex 241 14 January 2013 08: 39
    +1
    Regarding handling, the test pilot called him a lame goblin, and stated that he had not yet had to fly a plane with such disgusting control, since this plane has been called so.
  3. kotdavin4i
    kotdavin4i 14 January 2013 09: 27
    +5
    Thanks for the review, there is another nickname for the 117th, the "flying iron". And what about poor handling, as the pilots themselves said, because this pepelatsa is based on invisibility to the detriment of everything else, therefore subsonic.
    1. Santa Fe
      14 January 2013 11: 44
      0
      Quote: kotdavin4i
      And about poor handling, so the pilots themselves said this

      1990 year: 44 F-117 aircraft made a non-stop flight along the route of Tonopa Air Base (New Mexico) - El Harj Air Force Base (Saudi Arabia)

      The second fact - "Nighthawks" have performed thousands of air refueling without any problems, and this requires delicate management

      The third fact is that the aircraft was used in all military conflicts at the turn of the XX-XXI centuries. And it was used successfully - no one except the Yugoslavs was able to demonstrate the wreckage of the "Nighthawk"



      Stealth had disgusting handling without electronic systems. With the advent of electronic "assistants", stealth control seems to be no different from conventional aircraft.
      1. postman
        postman 15 January 2013 03: 30
        +4
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        doesn't seem to be any different than flying an ordinary airplane

        The truth sometimes "falls apart" in flight (from 1:05)
  4. avt
    avt 14 January 2013 09: 30
    +1
    Why didn't the author make a comparison with the Wright brothers' airplane? You could enlarge the article by adding the construction of a gynecological tree.
    1. Gendalf
      Gendalf 14 January 2013 10: 47
      +9
      What tree ???
      1. Tjumenec72
        Tjumenec72 14 January 2013 14: 54
        +5
        The gynecologist also went nuts from the tree)
      2. avt
        avt 14 January 2013 18: 04
        -2
        Quote: Gendalf
        What tree ???
        Well, if you mix PO-2 with F-117 in one article and compare combat use, then ONLY GYNECOLOGICAL I insist! laughing
  5. Wedmak
    Wedmak 14 January 2013 09: 32
    +4
    By the way, about handling during refueling - with an American, refueling is organized differently, not like ours. If our tanker releases a cone on a flexible hose and the plane must get into it with a rod, then their rod is on the tanker and with this rod the operator gets into the socket on the receiving aircraft. It’s hard to say which is better, but the distance between the planes of the Americans is much smaller.
    1. FID
      FID 14 January 2013 10: 03
      +3
      And it’s much harder to control the recipient aircraft.
    2. Santa Fe
      14 January 2013 11: 59
      +4
      Quote: Wedmak
      American refueling is organized differently, not like ours

      They use both methods.

      Quote: Wedmak
      our tanker releases a cone on a flexible hose and the plane should get into it with a barbell




      1. postman
        postman 15 January 2013 03: 42
        +2
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        They use both methods.

        US Air Force fueling rod
        Filling hose cone - Navy aircraft and the US Marine Corps, as well as NATO countries
        The boom allows you to build up pressure and provide more filling performance
        The KC-10 Extender has both.

        In the lower right part of the fuselage, next to the refueling rod, there is also a hose assembly for refueling using the hose-cone method. There is a receiving neck for refueling in flight of the tanker himself.
        Sperry’s digital electrical system provides pitch control and roll control (using elevator and two rudders) and its extension.
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 15 January 2013 03: 48
          +1
          ...............................................
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 15 January 2013 03: 52
            +1
            .................................
          2. postman
            postman 15 January 2013 04: 22
            0
            Quote: Alex 241
            Refueling the MiG-31 in the air. Rare frames

            Damn, I was really happy, he thought (31) KC-10 Extender "milked" using his WEIGHTED ARGUMENTS
            winked
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 15 January 2013 04: 30
              +1
              Well, the arguments are not weak there. laughing
  6. Zerstorer
    Zerstorer 14 January 2013 09: 35
    +4
    To be honest, I did not understand the main idea of ​​this article ... The connection of times? hardly ... Comparing the use of F-117 and Po-2 is somehow stupid (these are two big differences).
    1. Rus_87
      Rus_87 14 January 2013 10: 47
      +6
      The idea is to upgrade PO-2 (U-2) to the 21st century and sell it to our friends under license. Let the amers torment themselves to find out Russian plywood! =)))
    2. Santa Fe
      14 January 2013 11: 14
      +1
      Quote: Zerstorer
      To be honest, I did not understand the main idea of ​​this article ... The connection of times?

      Yes. Each of them is a stealth plane of its time.
      1. postman
        postman 15 January 2013 13: 04
        +1
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Yes. Each of them is a stealth plane of its time.

        Do you like Comrade Oleg to use hyperbolas.
        U-2 from "bezrybya", and there was no such task (invisibility). This is a classic UBS.
        And the F-117 is still a whole target program (according to the results of the action of the SAM of the USSR of the Vietnam War) has a whole
        Quote: avt RU
        gynecological tree.
        since 1943 and a trademark
        Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works Advanced Development Programs (ADP): Hopeless Diamond, A-11, U-2, SR-71 Blackbird, OUR Hero, F-22 Raptor.









        ===================================
        It would be more accurate to compare the F-117 with the "Steel-6" (USSR) from 1933

        organic glass paneling - rhodoid
        or
        "Redesigned" by S.G. Kozlov AIR-4 designed by Yakovlev and U-2 (1934)


        cellon lining (cellulose acetate)
        or
        Ho 2-29 (Germany 1944)
    3. Tjumenec72
      Tjumenec72 14 January 2013 15: 16
      +2
      Opus in the style of discovery - to compare the incomparable ...
      Ferari - red, fire - red ... if you compare with your method we will find a lot in common
  7. Lone gunman
    Lone gunman 14 January 2013 12: 09
    -8
    good, futuristic, electronic plane "invisible" - we didn't even try to create something like that, and it is not exported, but all because of the electronic filling on the verge of fantasy ...
    1. Gemar
      Gemar 14 January 2013 14: 44
      +5
      Quote: Lone gunman
      and all because of the electronic filling on the brink of science fiction

      What is the filling? What exactly is on the verge of science fiction?
      Quote: Lone gunman
      we didn’t even try to create something like that

      And thank God! They would have killed a bunch of dough for nothing! With the modern development of air defense (after the Yugoslav experience, the latest electronics, etc.), the F-177 has lost relevance. This confirmed such an early withdrawal from service. In modern air defense, a compromise is required between flight performance and stealth.
      And yet, how much interesting is an hour of flight on this
      Quote: Lone gunman
      nice, futuristic, electronic plane "invisible"

      ?
    2. postman
      postman 15 January 2013 12: 29
      0
      Quote: Lone gunman
      and all because of electronic filling on the brink of science fiction ...

      avionics and parts from the F-16 Fighting Falcon, F / A-18 Hornet and F-15E Strike Eagle, all but the glider.
      Fuel pump General Electric F404 same for F / A-18 Hornet
  8. tolan777
    tolan777 14 January 2013 12: 47
    +4
    Interesting article. By the way, one of the reasons for removing the armament bomber, IMHO, is its good visibility for the meter range radars, and a slightly worse decimeter one. Although the visibility of these types of radars is slightly worse ...
    And centimeter radars can help in the fight against it - it does not absorb 100% of the radiation, but redirects it away from the radar. Ukrainian "Kolchuga", united in one network, easily catch the reflected radiation and calculate the location of the aircraft.
  9. Dawd
    Dawd 14 January 2013 13: 02
    +2
    And you know the concept of applying faces, reducing visibility, the KGB merged them, this is the idea of ​​our designers, we have recognized it as futile!
    1. Santa Fe
      14 January 2013 13: 18
      +1
      Quote: Daoud
      we recognized it as unpromising!


      This situation was described by the ingenious Krylov in the fable "Fox and Grapes":
      Though he sees the eye,
      Yes, tooth noumet.
      Breaking through the whole hour,
      She went and said annoyed: "Well, well!
      At a glance, he is good,
      Yes, green - no mature berries:
      Immediately you will nag off. "


      Quote: Daoud
      the KGB merged the concept of applying faces, reducing visibility, this is the idea of ​​our designers, we have recognized it as unpromising!

      Yes, is it really?
      Then why such forms of superstructure of the "Guarding" corvette? wink
  10. Dawd
    Dawd 14 January 2013 13: 29
    +4
    Maybe it’s uncritical on a ship, but on a plane you understand to put this at the expense of handling and speed, I think not!
    1. Santa Fe
      14 January 2013 13: 43
      -1
      Quote: Daoud
      put it at the expense of handling

      successfully solved the problem by adding an automatic stabilization system
      Stealth controllability was no different from the controllability of conventional aircraft


      Quote: Daoud
      to put it at the expense of speed ... I think not!

      From what? Becoming invisible to an adversary is a good idea. You can even sacrifice speed

      A good example: 4-generation aircraft have sacrificed speed compared to the MiG-25. As it turned out, the altitude of 20 km and the speed of 3M mean nothing for modern air defense systems - salvation was only at extremely low altitudes.
      1. Tjumenec72
        Tjumenec72 14 January 2013 14: 59
        +5
        The MiG-25 data are not for rescue from air defense systems! and to intercept the adversary)))
        1. Santa Fe
          14 January 2013 20: 52
          +1
          Quote: Tjumenec72
          At MiG-25 these indicators are not for rescue from air defense systems!


          31.08.82 - MiG-25Р photo reconnaissance aircraft, flying at high altitude (21,336 meters) and speed (2.5М) over Israeli forces in Lebanon, northeast of Beirut, shot down by joint fire from Advanced Hawk air defense system and F-15 fighter from 106 squadrons. At first, the MiG-25 was damaged by SAM fire: the SAM detonated directly under the plane, it began to lose speed and altitude. Then the MiG-25 was finished off by the F-15, the victory was divided in half between the pilot and the air defense system. This interception was preceded by the enormous efforts of the Israeli Air Force (in particular, for the sake of this, the Advanced Hawk air defense system was introduced into Lebanon) and a number of unsuccessful attempts. The Advanced Hawk air defense missile systems were specially modernized in Israel at the beginning of the 80's. and were capable, according to the Janes, of intercepting targets at a height of up to 24,384 meters (the original ceiling of the MIM-23B Advanced Hawk SAM is equal to 17,700 meters, and the older MIM-23A Hawk is only 13,700 meters).
          1. Kars
            Kars 14 January 2013 21: 04
            +2
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            according to the Janes, intercept targets at a height of up to 24,384 meters

            And is there other than jains data?

            TTX MIM-23B ... MLength - 5,03 m
            Case Diameter - 0.37 m
            Starting weight - 638 kg
            Warhead weight - 75 kg
            The weight of the upgraded remote control is 395 kg (including a starting charge of 295 kg)
            Range of hitting the target - 1,5 km ... 35 km
            The height of hitting the target - 60 m ... 18 km
            Maximum speed - about 500 m

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-23_Hawk

            By the way, passing by Jewish comrades have a photo of the downed Mig-25?
          2. Tjumenec72
            Tjumenec72 14 January 2013 21: 32
            +2
            And he is all about his ...
            A good example: 4-generation aircraft have sacrificed speed compared to the MiG-25. As it turned out, the altitude of 20 km and the speed of 3M mean nothing for modern air defense systems - salvation was only at extremely low altitudes.

            An EXAMPLE is just the same FAILURE! Mig-25 was not created in order to break into alien airspace at breakneck speed! It is designed to intercept enemy aircraft violating the border!

            I give a hint (otherwise you’ll go out completely) - it would be more appropriate to mention SR-71, since it was created for this
            1. Santa Fe
              14 January 2013 22: 02
              +1
              Quote: Tjumenec72
              Mig-25 was not created in order to break into alien airspace at breakneck speed! It is designed to intercept enemy aircraft violating the border!

              It is noteworthy that by the time the MiG-25 was created, the adversaries had stopped flying in the stratosphere at 20 kilometers
              (rare SR-71 does not count)
        2. postman
          postman 15 January 2013 04: 34
          +1
          Quote: Tjumenec72
          and to intercept the adversary)))

          Another option was an Unbreakable bomber. Especially for the MiG-25RB were created heat-resistant bombs FAB-500, which were dropped from a height of 20 meters at a speed of 000 km / h. A bomb weighing 2300 kg, flying several tens of kilometers, drove into the earth to a multimeter depth, where it exploded, turning inside out the entire adjacent territory.
          True accuracy is not very
  11. Dawd
    Dawd 14 January 2013 13: 50
    +3
    but, as practice has shown, this aircraft also performs the invisibility function poorly.
    1. Santa Fe
      14 January 2013 13: 54
      -2
      Quote: Daoud
      but, as practice has shown, this aircraft also performs the invisibility function poorly.

      3000 sorties, one loss

      Not bad for a subsonic plane without armor and defensive weapons?
      1. Tjumenec72
        Tjumenec72 14 January 2013 15: 05
        +4
        He for heaps and could cut over the desert for statistics.
        But it’s written in your article - he could act effectively only with full domination in the sky ...
        1. Santa Fe
          14 January 2013 18: 49
          +1
          Quote: Tjumenec72
          could act effectively only with complete dominance in the sky ...

          In the afternoon.
          At night - in any conditions
          1. Tjumenec72
            Tjumenec72 14 January 2013 21: 43
            +2
            Why then did they all write them off, and moreover did not continue work in that direction?

            Tie already with the advertising of the old device, a new iPhone has long been released.
            1. Santa Fe
              14 January 2013 22: 05
              +1
              Quote: Tjumenec72
              From what then were they all written off

              30 years have passed. the experiment is over

              Quote: Tjumenec72
              moreover did not continue work in that direction?

              B-2
              F-22
              F-35
              ??
              1. Tjumenec72
                Tjumenec72 14 January 2013 22: 31
                0
                Not my friend you are cunning, these birds have a slightly different specialization.
  12. Santa Fe
    14 January 2013 13: 51
    -6
    Quote: Daoud
    Do you know the concept of applying faces, reducing visibility, it was leaked by the KGB


    As soon as our compatriots do not want to "cling" to the success of stealth.
    Among the most common versions:

    - the idea of ​​"stealth" was deliberately leaked by the KGB;

    - the idea of ​​"stealth" was stolen by the CIA from secret Soviet research institutes

    - the idea of ​​"stealth" was presented to the Americans by a Russian emigrant - physicist Pyotr Ufimtsev, by the way - this is the most realistic hypothesis.

    Pyotr Ufimtsev really dealt with the problems of radio wave propagation, it’s another matter that he formulated only general principles. And Lokheed specialists created an operational combat aircraft, solving thousands of technical problems.

    F-117 - a bold and fun experiment, the 64 aircraft (59 drill + 5 prototypes) made the whole world go awry.
    1. Tjumenec72
      Tjumenec72 14 January 2013 15: 07
      +4
      the same Peter Ufimtsev proved the futility of creating complete invisibility.
      1. Santa Fe
        14 January 2013 18: 37
        0
        Quote: Tjumenec72
        the same Peter Ufimtsev proved the futility of creating complete invisibility



        Really read from cover to cover?

        Or as always - blurted out, just to say something
        1. Tjumenec72
          Tjumenec72 14 January 2013 21: 44
          +1
          Well, you certainly read)

          The answer is already on the cover - radiation from different points ...
          1. Santa Fe
            14 January 2013 22: 11
            -1
            Quote: Tjumenec72
            proved the futility of creating complete invisibility.

            Nothing is complete.
            Stealth - reduced detection range

            Quote: Tjumenec72
            The answer is already on the cover - radiation from different points ...

            Good in theory. In practice, in combat conditions it is difficult to implement. In 80, it was generally impossible.
      2. postman
        postman 15 January 2013 16: 25
        0
        Quote: Tjumenec72
        the same Peter Ufimtsev proved the futility of creating complete invisibility.

        No, he only wrote a work expanding the theoretical calculations (and the theory itself) by a man 81 once (!) Nominated for a Nobel Prize in physics (though he never received it)
        Arnold Sommerfeld (member of the Royal Society of London, US National Academy of Sciences, USSR Academy of Sciences) / 1868-1951
        Mathematische Theorie der Diffraction, Mathematische Annalen 1896


  13. Dawd
    Dawd 14 January 2013 14: 02
    +7
    And tell me why they removed from service? since he is so successful in use!
    1. ICT
      ICT 14 January 2013 16: 00
      +5
      yes because the same F-18 copes with all tasks much better
  14. mga04
    mga04 14 January 2013 14: 45
    +6
    "On April 15, 1953, the American F-94 Starfire jet interceptor spotted the North Korean U-2, which was performing courier functions in the frontline zone ... Do you think the American pilot received an easy target and a generous reward from his command? Now!"
    "Starfire" unsuccessfully cut circles around the slowly floating "whatnot", until finally it dropped the speed below 180 km / h, which caused it to lose control and crash. The American side admitted the curious loss. "

    As a child, he read the memoirs of a pilot who fought on DB-3f. The book describes a similar case with U-2 (authenticity on the conscience of the author, I reproduce from memory):
    A courier U-2 flies to itself in the near rear, from the weapon only the service TT of the pilot. Either the pilot felt something, or he heard something - he looks around, and behind him the Me-109 has settled down, the whole thing is upright - the landing gear with the flaps are down, swaying, trying to hold on to its "victim" at the border of the stall speed. The German shows with gestures: from the second call you are a corpse.
    The Soviet pilot does not have many options - he carefully takes out his TT and abruptly throws up his hand and opens fire. Maybe he got into a German, or a German with a fright pulled the pen on himself and fell into a tailspin (the second option seems more likely to me), only one result - the messer crashed to the ground.
    That's the story.
  15. Strashila
    Strashila 14 January 2013 15: 50
    +3
    And on the Pacific Fleet in the 50s, judging by the analogy, there were stealth ships, according to modern concepts, torpedo boats of the Bolshevik class ... the same weren’t horseradish not detected at low speed ... they were detected during the attack ... the wave raised by the boat.
  16. nnz226
    nnz226 14 January 2013 17: 13
    +3
    The difference between these aircraft is one: the U-2 (Po-2) was a training "desk" and could be controlled by a flight school cadet and a fragile girl. And the F-117 flies like a brick without electronics, and it is impossible for them to control without 4 computers that keep it in flight. Here we are not talking about either cadets or fragile girls.
    1. Santa Fe
      14 January 2013 18: 56
      0
      Quote: nnz226
      U-2 (Po-2) was a training "desk" and could be controlled by a cadet of a flight school and a fragile girl. And the F-117 without electronics flies like a brick

      At the time of the U-2, radars and thermal imagers were not yet widely used.


      Quote: nnz226
      without electronics flies like a brick and drive without 4's Compthat keep him flying, they can’t

      The problem was - the problem was solved electronically
      What questions?
  17. Prisoner
    Prisoner 14 January 2013 20: 38
    +5
    No doubt one thing, all these girls are Heroes who fought for good goals! But for what those who flew on the F117 fought probably not so sublimely to say the least ...
    1. Tjumenec72
      Tjumenec72 14 January 2013 21: 51
      +4
      ... for a salary (and not a small one)