Helicopter squads versus unmanned boats

49
Helicopter squads versus unmanned boats
Transport and attack helicopter Mi-8AMTSH-V


The enemy, represented by Ukrainian formations, regularly tries to use various unmanned boats and underwater vehicles against Russian ships and coastal objects. To combat such a threat, our fleet uses different means and forces, and we are also searching for new methods and systems. It recently became known that the task of searching for and destroying unmanned attack vehicles is now assigned to specially formed aviation detachments on transport and combat helicopters.



Helicopter squads


A new method of combating the unmanned threat was reported on October 13 by Izvestia, citing unnamed sources in the Ministry of Defense. The publication writes about the beginning of the training and service of new aviation detachments, reveals some details of their equipment and work, etc.

According to sources in the Ministry of Defense, the Navy has begun forming helicopter detachments to protect water areas from unmanned threats. The first such unit, for obvious reasons, was created in the naval aviation of the Black Sea fleet. Its personnel completed the necessary training and went on duty. It is planned to create similar detachments as part of all other fleets.

Uncrewed boats of various kinds, surface and semi-submersible, have their own specifics and characteristic advantages. Finding such targets is somewhat difficult, and helicopter pilots are studying this issue and also practicing appropriate tactics. Target detection is being developed at any time of the day, regardless of weather conditions.


Multipurpose Ka-27

The new detachments use helicopters available to naval aviation - Mi-8, Ka-27 and Ka-29. They are capable of making long flights over the sea, have the necessary flight characteristics, carry a sufficient payload, etc. It is not specified whether it is planned to involve full-fledged attack helicopters in the fight against boats.

Allegedly, the first helicopter detachment has already begun duty and protection of the waters and objects of the Black Sea. It can be expected that in the near future its crews will detect and destroy the first surface or submersible targets. If the enemy still retains the possibility of actively using unmanned vehicles, then news this kind of can become regular.

Based on experience


The decision to create helicopter detachments to combat unmanned enemy vehicles was apparently made taking into account recent experience. Since last fall, our naval aviation has repeatedly encountered enemy boats and destroyed them. Now it is proposed to conduct such events at a different level, incl. with appropriate reorganization.

Let us recall that for the first time, helicopters of the Black Sea Fleet intercepted and destroyed Ukrainian unmanned boats at the end of October 2022. Then the enemy sent a dozen of such products to ships, vessels and objects in the Bay of Sevastopol. Some of these products were destroyed precisely by naval aviation, while others were struck by other means.


Ka-29 in flight

Since then, similar battles have occurred regularly in different parts of the Black Sea. Independently and with the help of others, the crews of transport-combat and attack helicopters found and fired at unmanned enemy boats. The latest episode of this kind took place in early October - helicopter pilots on the Ka-29 found and destroyed an enemy boat near Crimea.

Objective Benefits


Attention should be paid to the fact that the fight against unmanned threats is entrusted to helicopters, moreover, of the multi-purpose or transport-combat class. The reasons for this are generally simple and understandable. Helicopters have a number of characteristic features, which in the context of these tasks are a clear advantage. Proper use of these qualities will allow you to obtain maximum efficiency and improve the defense of water areas as a whole.

Ka-27, Ka-29 or Mi-8 helicopters are capable of staying in the air for hours and monitoring the water area. At the same time, they can fly at a minimum speed, be at low altitude and hover - all this improves their ability to patrol and search for surface objects. At the same time, the helicopter is capable of catching up with any surface or underwater vessel.

The Ka-27 and Ka-29 were originally created for use by the navy, and therefore have the standard ability to operate from the take-off pad of various carrier ships. This feature allows them to organize duty and patrol not only near their own coast, but also in remote water areas. At the same time, the helicopter and the ship can solve search and destruction tasks together.


Modern helicopters carry various search and sighting equipment. Depending on the modification, Kamov or Mil vehicles can be equipped with electronic, radar or optical reconnaissance equipment. Accordingly, during patrols the crew has every opportunity to observe, search for targets and subsequently attack.

The helicopters deployed in the new detachments can carry a variety of weapons suitable for destroying a wide range of surface and coastal targets. Thus, machine guns of normal caliber are installed in the openings of the side doors. With well-aimed fire, they are capable of quickly and reliably hitting and destroying boats of a specific design. In addition, the Ka-29 helicopter has a standard built-in machine gun mount with a four-barreled GShG-7,62. Normal-caliber systems can be supplemented with containers with small-caliber guns.

The listed helicopters can also carry missiles and bombs. Anti-tank missiles are a convenient means of combating surface moving targets. The use of unguided missiles or free-falling bombs is possible, but is not advisable due to the nature of the target and the low accuracy of such weapons.

Today and tomorrow


It is easy to see that the organization of new helicopter detachments not only meets the current needs of the fleet, but also creates a foundation for the future. Thus, the Black Sea Fleet regularly deals with unmanned attack vehicles and takes appropriate measures. Now its protection against such threats is enhanced by patrol helicopters.


Preparing the Mi-8 helicopter for combat flight

It is obvious that foreign states are monitoring Ukrainian attempts to use unmanned boats, and are also trying to analyze them and draw conclusions. The result of these processes may be the widespread use of such technology, incl. with the risk of its appearance at our other sea borders. In this regard, a decision was made to proactively create new helicopter detachments as part of all naval fleets.

It is clear how events will develop in the near future. The first helicopter detachment from the Black Sea Fleet will fight the unmanned threat, gain experience, create and try new methods and tactics, etc. Then the generalized and systematized experience will begin to be transferred to units of other fleets. Accordingly, by the time real danger appears in their directions, they will be ready for full-time work and problem solving.

The Kiev regime is showing some persistence in trying to hit Russian ships or coastal targets. Attacks using one or another number of unmanned boats are launched regularly - and end with a known result due to the opposition of our forces and means. All this will help the first helicopter detachment quickly gain the necessary experience, both for their own use and to help colleagues from other fleets.

Means of defense


The Black Sea Fleet, faced with a threat in the form of unmanned enemy boats, is taking various measures to combat them. Barriers are deployed, patrols are carried out by one force or another, etc. Such events generally justify themselves. Almost all enemy boats are successfully destroyed at a considerable distance from their targets. The enemy can no longer repeat high-profile actions with the defeat of iconic objects.

At the same time, defense will be strengthened in all directions. The useful experience of the Black Sea Fleet will be implemented by other associations. All fleets will begin to use certain means of protection, and will also create separate helicopter detachments. The positive consequences of this for the entire Navy are obvious.
49 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +3
    17 October 2023 04: 37
    We really hope this is temporary. drones must be dealt with by drones. otherwise, if there are 1000 drones, there won’t be as many helicopters...
    1. +5
      17 October 2023 06: 00
      Quote from Constantin N.
      if there are 1000 drones, there won’t be as many helicopters...

      In one flight from its weapon, one helicopter can destroy several such drones. So that the “crucian carp” can be “cut down”.
      But this is when you should regret the absence of the Mi-14
      1. +6
        17 October 2023 08: 25
        Yes, the question is not even about the number of drones. The issue is the service life of aircraft engines and mechanisms. If it were possible, the aviation of the Russian Border Troops would use helicopters and planes constantly, continuously, to patrol the state border. But they will start to break down and eventually need to be repaired. This already happened during the Great Patriotic War. In the memoirs of Pokryshkin and Kozhedub it is written that when the war rolled to the west, the question arose of how to effectively defend the advancing troops and naturally the most logical answer, PATROLING the front line. As a result, the engine life was spent and the planes had to replace engines, and the question immediately arose about the number of new engines and spare parts for the engines being repaired. As a result, incomplete squadrons began to take to the air. Eventually we came to duty at the airfield. A duty squadron was assigned to BG1. This could be the case now. If only ....?
        1. +10
          17 October 2023 09: 21
          Probably the leadership of the fleet does not know history and does not look far. The main thing is to report on the measures taken at the upcoming meeting, and at least the grass won’t grow there.
          Probably in the end they will again come to the conclusion that they need to be on duty at airfields, instead of the MI-8 they will need to use KA-52s, which can operate at night. And considering that the enemy has begun to use fully submersible drones, which cannot be detected from helicopters, the whole idea looks unviable.
          Instead of helicopters, it is necessary to use attack drones, such as "bayraktara", and build a stationary line for monitoring the underwater situation. But unfortunately, we have neither the first nor the second.
          1. +3
            17 October 2023 10: 47
            Quote: glory1974
            Probably in the end they will again come to the conclusion that they need to be on duty at airfields; instead of the MI-8, they will need to use KA-52s, which can operate at night.

            So assault modifications of the Mi-8 can also operate at night. And their weapons are approaching those of attack helicopters.
            Quote: glory1974
            Instead of helicopters, it is necessary to use attack drones, such as "bayraktara"

            It is easier to conduct reconnaissance of the water area with a reconnaissance UAV, and when a target is detected, call a duty group of helicopters.
            Quote: glory1974
            And given that the enemy has begun to use fully submersible drones, which cannot be detected from helicopters, the whole idea looks unviable.

            Helicopters are, rather, not against underwater UAVs, but against raid operations with DRG landings.
        2. +5
          17 October 2023 10: 11
          When a couple of weeks ago they wrote about the landing of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the west of Crimea, where it was destroyed by our fighter, but some of the boats were able to get back, I expressed bewilderment as to how this was possible and where the other planes and helicopter pilots were, why they didn’t catch up and destroy everyone.
          So these were surface boats with people, and even then they could not catch up and destroy them, not to mention being discovered on the approach far from the shore. And they wrote that these boats were not coming from Ochakov, through the bay of the Dnieper, but across the entire Black Sea from Vilkovo on the Danube.
          Well, how then should we perceive the projects of the author of the article? Only time will tell...
      2. +2
        17 October 2023 08: 27
        Quote: svp67
        But this is when you should regret the absence of the Mi-14

        And about the lack of night detection means on our helicopters, except for attack ones...
      3. -1
        17 October 2023 10: 09
        And, in addition to the Mi-14, there is also the Be-12, which has a cruising speed of 320 km. A good combination in searching and destroying Drones and boats with sabotage groups.
        A, They remained in the form of monuments, like the Museum of the World Ocean in Kaliningrad.
        P.S. I dug up information that for 2018. There were 4 Be-12s left in the Black Sea Fleet. I wonder if they have survived to this day?
        1. 0
          17 October 2023 10: 43
          Somewhere here it was written that only Beshka remained in the Black Sea Fleet
        2. 0
          17 October 2023 13: 44
          There seem to be 5 of them. Honored veteran, retired, but works part-time
      4. +3
        17 October 2023 10: 40
        Quote: svp67
        But this is when you should regret the absence of the Mi-14

        What is the advantage of the Mi-14 over the Mi-8AMTSh when working against surface targets? Especially in terms of means of destruction and protection?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +2
      17 October 2023 12: 33
      “It recently became known that the task of searching for and destroying unmanned attack vehicles is now assigned to specially formed aviation detachments on transport-combat helicopters.”
      ************************************************** *************************************
      I share this conceptual approach...

      Why not use (D)UAVs of the appropriate class to solve the problem of protecting a water area (water area)?..

      Let's say a (D) UAV of heavy or medium class, can conduct long-term patrols and all-weather search (including using means or complexes of built-in BREA). And, carry “on a sling”, three or four UAVs - “kamikaze”, to destroy detected unmanned boats or other sabotage means.

      And the use of Navy helicopters for this purpose, as I understand it, is the “fastest” in terms of technical implementation - a simple solution to a problem that required an urgent solution. But it is unlikely that the “urgent” solutions “found” in conditions of force majeure were ever optimal solutions...
      1. 0
        17 October 2023 12: 38
        As for “1000 unmanned boats”, this is obvious rhetoric and “overkill”...

        Three to four dozen “unmanned kamikazes” in one attack (and planned by the approach of BECs from different directions at the same time), this is still quite possible.
        1. +1
          17 October 2023 12: 46
          Moreover, I would note that the enemy, with a “creative approach,” is technically quite capable of equipping his “BEC-i” with waterproof containers with MANPADS (one or two per “BULL”). And “redirect” them according to the tasks being solved, to search for “search” helicopters, and not to destroy surface ships or ships and other objects in the coastal zone... And the defeat of a helicopter with a crew, in this case, is also a very big “bonus”. Moreover, if it is possible to “return” the BEC “home” to replenish the ammunition...
          1. +1
            17 October 2023 13: 28
            If MANPADS were so effective, then we would have run out of all helicopters and attack aircraft long ago. And attaching an automatic MANPADS to the boat (how is it supposed to catch the target?) will make this boat damaged.
    4. -1
      17 October 2023 18: 34
      there won't be that many helicopters...

      But they don’t exist. There are basically no Ka-29s in the Black Sea Fleet. Ka-27 is good if you have a few serviceable ones. I sincerely don’t understand what kind of bigots the Black Sea Fleet command is going to form helicopter detachments from. Does he hope that the ground forces will share the “eights”?
    5. 0
      25 February 2024 12: 01
      To search for and destroy maritime drones, it is worth considering the massive use of drones. This is both cheaper and more efficient than using up the engine life of helicopters, but helicopters are also better than the chance of being carried away.
  2. +6
    17 October 2023 04: 44
    Barriers are deployed, patrols are carried out by one force or another, etc. Such events generally justify themselves.

    These are dead-end events... The Black Sea Fleet has locked itself in its bases like a crab in a shell and doesn’t stick its head out... regularly fighting off attacks from enemy naval drones.
    What's the point of such a defense?
    So you can sit in the databases until you're blue in the face... why is all this necessary?
    You can't win a war like that.
    Odessa and Nikolaev... these should be the main goals for the Black Sea Fleet now.
    And what is happening now is no good.
    Where are our Ushakovs and Nakhimovs?
    1. -2
      17 October 2023 08: 06
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Barriers are deployed, patrols are carried out by one force or another, etc. Such events generally justify themselves.

      These are dead-end events... The Black Sea Fleet has locked itself in its bases like a crab in a shell and doesn’t stick its head out... regularly fighting off attacks from enemy naval drones.
      What's the point of such a defense?
      So you can sit in the databases until you're blue in the face... why is all this necessary?
      You can't win a war like that.
      Odessa and Nikolaev... these should be the main goals for the Black Sea Fleet now.
      And what is happening now is no good.
      Where are our Ushakovs and Nakhimovs?

      To win a war, you first need material, and only then Ushakovs and Nakhimovs.
    2. +1
      17 October 2023 09: 35
      During the Second World War, the Black Sea Fleet in 1943, after its “successes,” also locked itself away and kept a low profile. The Black Sea Fleet does not need a fleet, it is rather the Mediterranean Fleet, and now passage there is closed.
      1. -1
        17 October 2023 13: 39
        Quote: Curt
        During the Second World Black Sea Fleet

        Did the Black Sea Fleet participate in World War II? Surely you are not writing about Zhitomir?
        1. +1
          17 October 2023 16: 06
          that is, the defense of Odessa, Sevastopol, supplying the city and exporting weapons and valuables, raids of our ships on enemy ports and submarines to hunt (albeit stunning), on enemy transport - all this did not happen from 1941 to 1943? And your overly patriotic attitude, (in your opinion I should have said WWII) brevity is not the sister of talent in this case, and iron logic regarding Zhitomir does not cause anything but pity and irritation
          1. -2
            18 October 2023 07: 20
            Quote: Curt
            in your opinion I should have said WWII

            That’s right, but I understand perfectly well that you won’t dare say the Great Patriotic War, and you have a headache for May 9!
            Quote: Curt
            During World War II, the Black Sea Fleet in 1943, after its “successes,” also locked itself away and kept a low profile

            Quote: Curt
            raids of our ships on enemy ports and submarines to hunt (albeit not stunning) on ​​enemy transport

            Don't change your shoes so quickly, you'll rub it off!
    3. 0
      17 October 2023 09: 38
      A couple of days ago I read from Colonel Kassad that a patrol ship was damaged in the Sevastopol Bay (and he lives in Sevastopol), and the sea drone that attacked it was not detected, which indicates the use of fully submerged drones. There has already been information about their presence and the military’s reaction is needed immediately, because the use of such devices will only expand. But how to deal with them? Yes, and this news was not published anywhere else.
      1. 0
        17 October 2023 14: 39
        Quote: Xenofont
        read it from Colonel Cassada

        There are a lot of Sevastopol residents on the website, they would immediately notify about such a case!
    4. 0
      17 October 2023 13: 38
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Where are our Ushakovs and Nakhimovs?

      They sit on this site, they feel very comfortable here! laughing
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      The Black Sea Fleet has locked itself in its bases like a crab in a shell and is not sticking out

      Where did you get this from, citizen Nakhimov? The fleet operates according to the orders of the Northern Military District command; the Makhnovshchina ended 102 years ago!
  3. +3
    17 October 2023 04: 49
    Allegedly, the first helicopter detachment has already begun duty

    Wouldn't patrol drones be suitable for this purpose? For example, something similar to American Global Hawk? They can hang in the air for hours, and they don’t have a crew that will get tired from long duty...
    1. +1
      17 October 2023 13: 31
      You ask Tsvetkov where our big drones are, instead of which he built a jewelry store in Cyprus
  4. +3
    17 October 2023 05: 02
    But where do these “new” rows come from? It would be more correct that helicopter pilots have a new task.
    1. +1
      17 October 2023 09: 43
      Quote from Voronezh
      It would be more correct that helicopter pilots have a new task.

      This is just plugging holes. For such a task we need drones
  5. +4
    17 October 2023 05: 30
    It is expensive to keep helicopters in the air XNUMX/XNUMX. The last resource will be gobbled up, and not a single drone will be encountered. It’s better to launch the UAV or do this.
  6. +3
    17 October 2023 05: 49
    Only 29 Ka-59s were built, the last one in 1991. How many of them are in flying condition, especially in the Black Sea Fleet, is not really known. Therefore, you should not expect real benefits from them.
    1. 0
      17 October 2023 23: 18
      Quote: Amateur
      Only 29 Ka-59s were built, the last one in 1991. How many of them are in flying condition, especially in the Black Sea Fleet, is not really known. Therefore, you should not expect real benefits from them.

      Just the opposite. Of the listed helicopters, the Ka-29 is the most interesting for its radar, well designed for detecting small sea targets such as a periscope, buoy or antennas of a semi-submersible drone.

      But for good reasons, of course, we need patrol drones, with a couple of ATGMs on the sling.
      1. 0
        18 October 2023 10: 39
        Quote: Saxahorse
        Of the listed helicopters, the Ka-29 is the most interesting for its radar, well designed for detecting small sea targets such as a periscope, buoy or antennas of a semi-submersible drone.

        Does the Ka-29 have a radar? It seems that only OECs are there. And the radar is the Ka-27.
  7. 0
    17 October 2023 06: 15
    A helicopter is already close to the base and everything is serious. Hanging in the sea-ocean is expensive and will be shot down - only as a temporary solution to plug holes in preparations for war. And drones and things with cheap engine hours should hang. A motor paraglider and a basket of bombs...
  8. 0
    17 October 2023 06: 22
    For these purposes, the Mi-14 is most suitable, which the Navy remembered a few years ago, but as always, other than the next blah blah, things didn’t work out
  9. 0
    17 October 2023 07: 52
    First, you need to carefully study what marine drones are, their characteristics, and how they operate. Maybe there are enough UAVs patrolling around the clock with detection equipment and two or four anti-tank missiles.
    If sea drones are detected and destroyed, a vengeful retaliatory strike must be launched immediately against pre-selected targets. soldier
    1. -3
      17 October 2023 08: 01
      Quote: V.
      First, you need to carefully study what marine drones are, their characteristics, and how they operate. Maybe there are enough UAVs patrolling around the clock with detection equipment and two or four anti-tank missiles.
      If sea drones are detected and destroyed, a vengeful retaliatory strike must be launched immediately against pre-selected targets. soldier

      Do you offer to purchase Bayraktars?
      1. -2
        17 October 2023 09: 49
        Helicopters and drones are certainly needed, but these are purely defensive actions, this is not enough, active actions are needed against Odessa and Nikolaev, the question is by what means to do this. For these purposes, it is possible to convert several suitable bulk carriers or container ships; the Americans were actively involved in converting transport ships for military needs during the years of the world. The Americans massively converted bulk carriers into escort aircraft carriers, and the Germans tried to fill the side tanks of tankers with concrete to enhance protection against torpedo attacks. Such a converted bulk carrier due to its size will be much more resistant to anti-ship missiles, especially to the explosion of unmanned boats, than a purely warship
  10. Des
    +2
    17 October 2023 09: 16
    Oh yes Ryabov, oh yes Kirill!)))
    From the article: “So, machine guns of normal caliber are installed in the openings of the side doors. With accurate fire, they are capable of quickly and reliably hitting and destroying boats of a specific design. In addition, the Ka-29 helicopter has a standard built-in machine gun installation with a four-barreled GShG-7,62. Normal-caliber systems can be supplemented with containers with small-caliber guns."
    Bravo to normal caliber machine guns. Oh, and systems of normal caliber too))).
    Helicopters cannot fly around the clock and - now - always fly over the sea. Not only is the resource of equipment and pilots not unlimited, but there are simply not many of these components themselves. Reconnaissance drones of appropriate quality would be suitable, but they are not available. Alas.
    1. 0
      17 October 2023 23: 23
      Quote: Des
      Reconnaissance drones of appropriate quality would be suitable, but they are not available. Alas.

      The outpost was recently shown, with two KAB-20s on the suspension, it seems. Sufficient for a marine drone.
  11. 0
    17 October 2023 13: 33
    The Mi-14 needs to be revived...
  12. 0
    17 October 2023 13: 53
    I read and am surprised. Yes, discover our developments in this area. Everything is there. Everything. And the closure of the area and part of the area. Moreover, both the surface and underwater environment, and the air. It is especially worth emphasizing that this is all in a complex. One control point, one headquarters Apparently the command is both deaf and blind.
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. 0
    17 October 2023 14: 28
    What if you try a gyroplane, airship or motorized hang gliders? We need to build something that can work with an automatic cannon or a heavy machine gun. Helicopters are still quite expensive, and they will fly along routes. Well, don’t forget about space, America can see almost up to cm from its satellites, which means we also need to develop our grouping
  15. 0
    17 October 2023 15: 25
    All this, of course, is interesting in theory. But the enemy launches stealthy drones at night. They try (as far as possible) not to use Ka29 at night. And the standard equipment in Kamov was built for hunting submarines
  16. 0
    17 October 2023 18: 11
    Wow - a new method - visually detect from helicopters
  17. Eug
    0
    17 October 2023 19: 27
    The article is outdated - there is confirmation of an attack on Pavel Derzhavin by an underwater unmanned vehicle as confirmation of the “functional defeat of the Black Sea Fleet.” And an unmanned (uncrewed) vehicle costs the same as a 4-5 hour flight (2 flights) of a helicopter....
  18. 0
    18 October 2023 00: 38
    The thought “illuminated” in K. Ryabov’s article is informative, inspiring and suggests that “military thought” does not stand still, it moves forward... There is a question, though. And if the enemy’s tactics change, and with it the technical “content” of the sea drone will change... For example, in response to our “flying squads” they will use semi-submersible drones (detachment), which will include a drone equipped with an air defense system and radar.. Its task is to protect the strike group from low-flying and low-speed air targets during the transition to the point of impact, with its subsequent return or participation in the attack... It is possible to use a naval air defense drone only with an air defense system and target designation from an AEW&C system "loitering" over by sea or RQ-4 Global Hawk, MQ-9A, MQ-27A and, further, according to the list... After all, a low-flying helicopter is also a target, and even at night...
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. 0
    19 October 2023 02: 07
    بهترین کار روش پارسیان است
    قایقهای اژدر افکن و موشک انداز
    به همراه پهپاد