AvtoVAZ should remember about dual-use equipment

76
AvtoVAZ should remember about dual-use equipment
This is an armored pickup truck on an extended Niva chassis. Why AvtoVAZ doesn’t do this is unclear.


Nostalgia for "The River"


If you look at domestic automobile factories, it turns out that most of them are, to one degree or another, loaded with defense orders. Naturally, for the needs of the Russian special operation.



The Ural plant in Miass is busy with heavy trucks, and the Kama Automobile Plant operates in a similar way. In Ulyanovsk they produce a whole range of light vehicles for the army, starting with the legendary “Loaf” (the modern name of the UAZ SGR “Modern Truck Series”) and ending with the “Patriot”.

It is difficult to judge the level of workload of enterprises, since the information is closed, but indirect signs indicate a large series. For example, at all factories there is an acute shortage of personnel, which was not the case before the special operation.




The River project was AvtoVAZ’s first and last defense development at the moment.

Two original domestic factories stand out: Nizhny Novgorod GAZ and Tolyatti AvtoVAZ. And if the first enterprise managed to make its contribution to the defense complex in the past (we are talking about the Tiger, GAZ-66 and Sadko cars), then AvtoVAZ is still not involved in the state defense order. There are many reasons, but none of them justifies the company's aloofness.

The only vehicle that can be quickly rebuilt to meet the needs of the Russian Army is the Niva. During its wonderful and long career, the car has changed many names - at the moment the model is called LADA Niva Legend. Surprisingly, since 1977, not a single combat vehicle produced from the gates of the Togliatti automobile plant has been accepted into service. It is difficult to consider the many semi-handicraft modifications of the Niva for army structures to be the merit of AvtoVAZ.

History remembers Niva’s one and only attempt to develop the defense sector. We are talking about the experimental floating car “River”. Looking ahead, let's say that it was possible to create a light car capable of overcoming water obstacles only at the Lutsk Automobile Plant. During the Soviet period, all automobile enterprises were required to produce military equipment.

In Ukraine, they created the LuAZ-967 front-line transporter, which was very successful for its time, produced from 1965 to 1989. The next in the class was to be the Tolyatti “Reka”, and one step higher – the Ulyanovsk “Jaguar”. Neither of them went into production, but the designers gained experience in creating specific military equipment. Especially in Togliatti, where previously they had not thought about the needs of the army at all.

A few words about “The River”.

The car had an original boat body with folding windshield and side windows. The original Niva has three doors - the Reka was left with only two. The entire component base was transferred entirely from the VAZ-2121, which simultaneously reduced the final cost and simplified maintenance (you can read more about the Togliatti project in the material “Project “River”: combat amphibian from Tolyatti” ).

There are two reasons why the combat Niva did not go into production: chronic overheating of the units due to difficulties with ventilation and the inability of the main conveyor to produce such vehicles.

"Niva" for special operations


What role can Niva and its derivatives play in a special operation?

First of all, it will fill the niche of a light command vehicle. A simple and unpretentious vehicle with minimal armor will certainly not be rejected by any unit at the front. Factory workers have plenty of experience in this area. But it’s not AvtoVAZ that is setting up the Niva in a military manner. For example, the Shvabe SpetsAvto company presented an armored ambulance last December at the Russian Healthcare Week.






Armored ambulance from Shvabe SpetsAvto. Source: shvabe-sa.ru

The four-seater vehicle is designed to transport one bedridden patient and two or three seated ones. This is probably the first ambulance in Russia with loopholes and protection against 5,45 mm bullets. There is no information that the vehicle was built for the realities of a special operation. Only it was not built at AvtoVAZ.

“Shvabe SpetsAvto” continues the theme of the combat “Niva” with a specific armored pickup truck. The debut took place at the last Army forum.

The specialists did their best - 4,5-mm armored steel protects against machine gun fire, and the noticeably heavier vehicle is driven by a 106-horsepower engine. This is a stone thrown into the garden by civil engineers from AvtoVAZ, who since 1977 have not been able to deliver anything more powerful than an 83-horsepower engine. At Shvab they did it. The design of the armored pickup truck is simple - steel protection was simply hung on the outside of the body.

The result was a sandwich that noticeably made the car heavier. They didn’t even remove the Niva’s standard windshield, but simply covered the cabin with an armored cap with a pair of embrasures. The result is something like an anti-fragmentation lining, although such a solution may do even more harm than good.


Another Niva from Shvabe SpetsAvto




What prevents AvtoVAZ from putting similar cars into a wide series? In the photo there is a Lada 4x4 Z. Source – Vitaly Kuzmin.

In 2021, Moscow OKB Tekhnika built a Sarmat buggy based on the Niva. It is very difficult to guess the Togliatti SUV in the dashing car - the external body panels are original. The original concept of a windswept buggy in a special operation does not stand up to criticism. It is still possible to chase terrorists through the desert, but it is impossible to fight an enemy capable of firing several thousand shells per day. FPV adds colordrones, deadly for any open car even with an inaccurate hit.

As a result, Sarmat-3 was born - a lightly armored version of the buggy. The product was shown at the Army 2022 forum, but nothing was heard about the appearance of the vehicle on the fields of a special operation.




The Sarmat buggy on the Niva platform was built in Moscow. Photo - Vitaly Kuzmin.


Sarmat-3 is perhaps the most successful version of the Niva for war. Photo – Yuri Pasholok

Why all the above?

Moreover, the Russian Army has a request for a Niva-class combat vehicle. Simple and inexpensive. Only AvtoVAZ itself can build something like this in large quantities. First of all, it will be much cheaper for the customer. Firms involved in reworking the Niva first have to spend money on buying the car, and then on disassembly and reassembly.

In Tolyatti, they could have long ago established a slipway assembly of military equipment from vehicle kits that are sent to the assembly line. I have experience. We are talking about the PSA Bronto company, which since 1993 has been producing, among other things, cash-in-transit Nivas. Even though they are armored primarily against pistol bullets, they are still protected vehicles, which are extremely necessary in a special operation. For example, the armored car Lada-Bronto 212142 “FORS-K”, which is indistinguishable from a civilian vehicle from ten steps.


The photo shows an armored Lada Bronto 212142 FORS-K. Source – bronto-psa.ru

Why hasn't Bronto delivered cars to the front yet?

A minimum of modifications are required - replace the panoramic armored glass with something more practical in combat and make the design as light as possible to increase the service life and load capacity. Bronto, by the way, is a subsidiary of AvtoVAZ. With minimal costs in the factory, you can turn the Niva into a carrier of a heavy machine gun and even an anti-tank missile system.

The economic effect is obvious - now, at market prices, the Tolyatti SUV is two times cheaper than the Ulyanovsk Patriot. Remove unnecessary options at the front, and the Niva will turn into an excellent fighter. It’s just necessary to move away from the buggy concept - let it remain for other wars.

Among the likely reasons why Tolyatti is not ready for combat Nivas is stress from foreign sanctions. Renault left last year, leaving the plant without components and a couple of models in its range. They still can’t put Largus on the assembly line, and XRay has been abandoned altogether.

China is still helping with critical components, but here too everything is ambiguous. The European Union and the United States can impose secondary sanctions at any time, and the assembly line will lose engine control units, ABS components and other luxuries.

In Togliatti they are making plans for Chinese engines with automatic transmissions. We intend to organize a screwdriver assembly of another car made in China. Where is the combat Niva from here?
76 comments
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  1. +20
    21 October 2023 05: 06
    The question immediately arises: what will remain of the original Niva in the event of such modernization? The engine is different, the interior is different, the body is different, the suspension and transmission will also have to be changed.
    1. -2
      21 October 2023 06: 55
      The most important thing in the Army (apart from performance characteristics) is the unification and maintainability of equipment.
      Everything else is from the evil one.
      Regarding the front edge conveyor, it must be made on the basis of other principles and approaches. It may even be worth abandoning the LAN and the classic steering system.
      1. +2
        21 October 2023 12: 06
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        The most important thing in the Army (apart from performance characteristics) is the unification and maintainability of equipment.

        Unification with mass civilian equipment - unification squared!
    2. 0
      21 October 2023 07: 01
      The specialists who collect it.
      Which are simply not available in such quantity anywhere else!
      1. +11
        21 October 2023 14: 40
        Quote from Traktoris
        The specialists who collect it.

        There are no more specialists. Previously, VAZ had several vocational schools and technical schools. Now everything is fucked. There is the wildest turnover at the plant.
        And the production and technical divisions of the plant were liquidated, because this was the first thing the French did. They needed a screwdriver manufacturing facility.
        1. +1
          23 October 2023 10: 53
          The main problem of Niva hardly depends on the French.
          The box cannot digest the torque of VAZ engines of 90 and 105 hp.....and they appeared much earlier than the French. We are generally silent about diesel engines. And without a motor with high torque, the box will not be able to support all the weighting add-ons.
          1. +2
            23 October 2023 15: 28
            Quote: Zaurbek
            The main problem of Niva,

            Niva's problem has virtually no overlap with the problems of the plant as a whole. The car is over 40 years old. The new Niva was given to General Motor JV. And this event is more than 20 years old. But today there is simply no one to design new cars. And nowhere. And this is thanks to the French.
    3. +1
      23 October 2023 21: 26
      Quote from Escariot
      The question immediately arises: what will remain of the original Niva in the event of such modernization?

      Assembly line .
  2. -2
    21 October 2023 05: 08
    There is never too much money.
    But sanctions happen.
    Power is what we see. From Kadannikov IDNT-peacefulness and lack of mobile reserves of AvtoVAZ.
    The "carburetor" became a moonshine still. Women's covenants come to life!
  3. +13
    21 October 2023 05: 26
    The author is absolutely stupid and does not understand production at all. By the way, salaries on a vase -
    [
    center][/ Center]
    1. +18
      21 October 2023 05: 39
      Recently the news broke that 500 migrants “specialists” were brought to VAZ. The quality of the products will certainly improve.
      1. KCA
        -2
        21 October 2023 07: 05
        The Daewoo produced by these migrants is of much higher quality than the crafts produced by AvtoTAZ
      2. +4
        21 October 2023 11: 17
        The quality of the products will certainly improve.
        Yeah, to an unattainable depth!
    2. +6
      21 October 2023 05: 41
      I liked the vacancy, specialist!
    3. Egg
      +16
      21 October 2023 06: 51
      We are especially pleased with the salary of the Design Engineer, Design Engineer and Quality Engineer... and we are still surprised at the crap that AvtoVAZ produces and its outdated models.
    4. KCA
      -6
      21 October 2023 07: 06
      The year is not specified, 20 years ago, wow the salary, the picture is definitely 2023?
    5. +3
      21 October 2023 15: 04
      Quote: KrolikZanuda
      By the way, salaries on a vase -
      [

      Have you ever wondered why there are so many vacancies with a salary higher than the city average?
      1. +7
        22 October 2023 09: 58
        Higher, neighing. That is why the plant attracts workers from Chechnya and Uzbekistan. The locals no longer work for these pennies. And management is still in wet fantasies - there’s a lot behind the fence.
        1. +1
          23 October 2023 15: 31
          Quote: KrolikZanuda
          Locals no longer work for these pennies

          These pennies are higher than the city average. Working conditions at VAZ today are draconian, and there are no prospects. That's why they don't go.
    6. +2
      22 October 2023 21: 15
      It is not surprising that there is a turnover there with such and such salaries.
    7. 0
      23 October 2023 12: 41
      A contract shooter gets 45, but if he passes physical training and hires him, then he gets about 60, go run and shoot, but here you have to study, so they don’t go
  4. +2
    21 October 2023 05: 31
    AvtoVAZ should remember about dual-use equipment

    Come in...
    It’s time for AvtoVAZ to choose a niche in which it will operate... Apart from Putin, no one will covet the Lada-Kalina. And catching up with the Chinese auto industry, like catching up with Savransky, is a utopia.
    When looking at various kinds of crafts and angular forms of VAZ’s “auto miracles,” no optimism arises. Melancholy and hopelessness...
    1. +5
      21 October 2023 11: 03
      The idea of ​​AvtoVAZ management is simple and does not change over time: sell the people a bucket of bolts, and they themselves will bring it to mind. Need will force you!
      1. +5
        21 October 2023 17: 48
        Quote: ROSS 42
        Apart from Putin, no one will covet the Lada-Kalina

        Quote: Xenofont
        bucket of bolts

        What kind of people have gone, you don’t understand what budget cars are and who needs them, so no one is forcing you, don’t buy them, why pour guan on something you have no idea about, in the style of “I haven’t read it, but I condemn it,” why replicate all sorts of stupid fables about a “bucket with nuts”, specially introduced into the Internet and heads by interested forces, for different purposes. The reality is completely different. The budget segment is always strictly about price/quality. And VAZ has met this criterion perfectly all these years.
        Firstly, the people from the provinces actively vote in rubles for budget VAZ models, and if the quality was terrible, the people would not have transferred their hard-earned savings to AvtoVAZ. Simply because he is buying a car for a very, very long time. Meanwhile, sales of Grant in 22 amounted to half of AvtoVAZ’s entire output. There are simply no (or rather, there weren’t before, before the inadequate price hike) worthy alternatives in the budget segment.
        Secondly, with the arrival of the French, quality began to strictly correspond to price. Comply with global standards. It used to be, when Russia had its own automobile industry, they saved every penny, the equipment fell apart, the defects were not written off but sent for assembly, and even bolts were driven into the threads with a hammer. But the price of the car itself was ridiculous. The price of the Lada was much lower than its poor quality. After Andersen arrived, the price was doubled, and with this money they introduced the European quality system. And they actually transferred VAZ to a screwdriver assembly from foreign components. Killing the production of domestic components. But the quality has become world-class. Budget. I personally observed that the system actually worked; if there were prerequisites for defective components, then the entire batch was rejected, piece by piece, and the defect found was actually written off. And, in fact, most of the cars of friends from that period have been driving all these years without any problems, within the budget segment. With a few exceptions. When one problem after another. And what manufacturer doesn’t have them, those very exceptions to the rule?
        About the current, 23-year-old assembly, I’ll say this - I personally don’t bother with the topic, but from the outside I see that the quality will definitely be worse, simply because suppliers proven over the years have changed, everything is just getting better and mastered by the Chinese and partly ours, which causes chronic There is a shortage of components; the plant has frozen incomplete cars worth tens of billions of rubles. And someone has to pay these costs. Therefore, the price is not adequate for the market segment. So now it’s really not a fact that the VAZ is the best choice among budget cars.
        1. +3
          22 October 2023 06: 40
          Good day!
          I just couldn't pass it by.
          “People from the provinces are actively choosing VAZ...” Well, there isn’t much of a choice: either a bucket of bolts for an expensive price or Chinese car-made products for 3 prices.
          A budget car doesn't mean it has to be a piece of shit.
          Remember Solaris when it appeared and before the introduction of all the wonderful taxes. Cost 200000 rubles. It was snapped up like hot cakes and there was even a line.
          Here is an example of a budget car with normal quality.
          Now compare this Solaris from 15 years ago and modern frets. I'm afraid that the comparison will not be in favor of VAZ, unfortunately
          1. +2
            22 October 2023 11: 15
            This is what I’m talking about, when it comes to AvtoVAZ’s own products (but not Renault’s products produced exactly there, using exactly the same principles and technologies), Russians have a completely irrational discrepancy between the picture in their heads and reality. Specifically:
            Quote: I_Alpharius
            before the introduction of all the wonderful taxes

            Extortions were introduced long before Solaris appeared on our market. IMHO, the only thing introduced after that is the recycling fee. Which then domestic producers began to pay. Moreover, benefits for the import of components were later cancelled, i.e. screwdriver assembly became less profitable, but domestic production of auto components had already completely died by that time! Those. the government, instead of stimulating the domestic auto industry, stupidly began to spread rot on it.
            But all this is unimportant in the context of the discussion, because Solaris, from the point of view of extortions, is no different from VAZ cars at all!!! Because both are assembled from foreign components, by a foreign automaker, on Russian territory. So all the talk about extortionate extortions from “normal” machines in favor of a “bucket of nuts” is another, irrational, externally induced mess that obscures reality.
            And for better brain ventilation:
            Quote: I_Alpharius
            Solaris cost 200000 rubles.


            Quote: I_Alpharius
            Now compare this Solaris from 15 years ago and modern frets. I'm afraid that the comparison will not be in favor of VAZ, unfortunately

            Once again, why, why do you, and everyone else affected by the induced confusion, make the same demands on cars with a price difference of two or more times??? What happened to your brains???
            PS: for clarity, I never minus opponents
  5. +5
    21 October 2023 05: 51
    VAZ, in my opinion, was initially considered as a purely civilian automobile plant without defense tasks, which is actually rare in world practice; most large automakers have some kind of defense order. The Niva itself is not very suitable for armoring; for this, a new design must be created.
    The UAZ SGR is the “old cargo range”, since they have a new one on the Patriot units.
    1. -2
      21 October 2023 15: 06
      Quote: Corvair
      VAZ, in my opinion, was initially considered as a purely civilian automobile plant without defense tasks

      Under the Union, VAZ could be reconfigured to produce armored vehicles within two weeks.
      1. +2
        26 October 2023 22: 06
        Ingvar 72
        Under the Union, VAZ could be reconfigured to produce armored vehicles within two weeks

        It is forbidden. There is no equipment for this, for example, heavy cranes with a large lifting capacity, and much that does not yet exist
  6. +24
    21 October 2023 05: 57
    Holy shit, what nonsense. The Russian Federation is full of originally army armored vehicles - starting from the "tiger".
    and what can be done on the basis of the Niva? the engine is weak, the transmission has no safety margin, the body needs to be changed, the capacity is small... I understand that jihad cars are made from whatever they can find, but why block the factory production of worthless crafts?
    1. +5
      21 October 2023 08: 49
      For army purposes there is a UAZ Hunter (K.o.z.e.l. which). This is why it was developed for more than 10 years, I don’t understand why they are now driving patriots (except for pickups - weapons can be installed there
      1. +1
        22 October 2023 19: 58
        Quote: Curt
        For army purposes there is a UAZ Hunter (K.o.z.e.l. which). This is why it was developed for more than 10 years, I don’t understand why they are now driving patriots (except for pickups - weapons can be installed there


        [/center] Here it is Niva in the army.
        The only question is which ones "niches" "Niva" ranks in the modern army - there is no armor, then you need to use the "Niva" in the rear, in the rear there will also be something to transport.
        Use as command vehicle - but in the rear, during hostilities - armored cars to the front, and "thin-skinned" Niva in their place in the rear, and in “peacetime” it is more profitable to use unarmored vehicles from the point of view of saving fuel (we transport cargo - not armor).
        Essentially the question of the "army Niva" is a question correct use, not structures.
        soldier
      2. +3
        22 October 2023 22: 09
        Yes, that’s why they drive “Patrikas” because you can’t get in/out of a “goat” normally in a bulletproof vest, and you can’t get in with equipment, and you can’t get in with a helmet, and you can’t even squeeze through in all of the above. Riding on a “goat” is a total joke, unlike a “Patrick”, because the latter is much more comfortable both off-road, in terms of cross-country ability, and on broken roads, in terms of smoothness. I got this experience on my own skin. And I consider the best civilian vehicle in the SVO UAZ-Pickup, based on the Patriot. And you can take cargo, and transport people, any - living and not so.... Yes, look how the doorways of the “goat” are made!!! You can’t sit in them - the frame blocks the passage to the seat! Shoot him already, don’t torture people... Well, Niva... it was originally created in an extreme design - if you start strengthening one thing, it won’t withstand the other, and so on in a circle. All these machine guns in the Niva-pickup are due to poverty, it does not pull either the Kord or the NSV - when firing even two or three shots, not to mention 10-15, they rock Grandfather Mazai’s boat like hares, there is no room for a machine gunner, There is no way to spin around the turret. If only you carry the ATGM a little, like the Cornet. And she has even less space in the cabin than in the “goat”. But it drives better on a flat road, yes, it does. But she’s already about fifty years old, if not more! And only the first time I experienced more or less serious modernization... Eh, they said - it’s a damned place... (from an anecdote: The Mercedes company bought the AvtoVAZ plant. They reconfigured production, launched a conveyor... Bam! Zhiguli is coming out!
        Dismantle the equipment, drove the new one from Germany, installed, adjusted, launched. ! ! ! Lada again!
        Why all the plant personnel are dismissed, workers from Germany are brought in, they are established, checked, and launched. ! At the exit again - Lada!
        There is a hill near the plant; ch. engineer and director of the plant (both with the prefix Ex .. Look at all this. Engineer to the director:
        - And I told you - the place is damned! ! ! And then all the "hands from the ass, hands from the ass"
  7. +6
    21 October 2023 07: 07
    Waste of time. No offense, but for 75 years they could not make a normal civilian passenger car. All some foreigners helped. What came of this can be seen with the naked eye.
  8. +12
    21 October 2023 07: 11
    Because most of the components are foreign-made.
    And everything Soviet was destroyed.
    1. -4
      21 October 2023 08: 06
      Quote: Omega option
      Because most of the components are foreign-made.
      And everything Soviet was destroyed.

      Well, Soviet is good in Soviet conditions, but in a market economy no one really needs Soviet.
  9. +10
    21 October 2023 07: 32
    VAZ has already shown itself that it can do without the French! It can produce engines and gearboxes from the 8s and 9s, but in 30 years they haven’t been able to do anything else. As a child, I jumped with happiness when we bought a new nine, and now it’s 23 years old, they put the same engine and gearbox on Vesta, how is that? And it’s okay if they tried something, so they proudly reported that there is a way out, there is no need to spend your own money, they will buy Chinese machine guns and motors! Super
    1. +2
      21 October 2023 15: 09
      Quote: Vadim S
      and here it’s 23 years old, they put the same engine and gearbox on Vesta, how’s that?

      Now they are installing a 16-valve 126 engine. Where did you see these on 2109? belay
  10. +4
    21 October 2023 07: 43
    So what do we have??? A car weighing 1200 kg maximum with an engine of less than 100 horses! And what kind of armor are we talking about???? A buggy, exactly a stripped buggy with engine armor. But only. Not a command vehicle, and certainly not an ambulance. Open mobile platform. An 82 mm mortar on such a chassis would look great.
    1. 0
      22 October 2023 22: 18
      yah? Already created for 82mm - https://topwar.ru/79011-mobilnyy-82-mm-minomet-na-baze-motovezdehoda-rm-500-6h4.html
  11. +4
    21 October 2023 08: 34
    How can you remember something that didn’t happen? The project is just that, a project (relevance of the 70s), production has not been established.
    AvtoVAZ has nothing that can be used for its intended purpose at the front.
  12. 0
    21 October 2023 10: 35
    In general, it is a civilian in appearance, but with a normal engine and at least 2nd class reservation, the Niva would be very relevant. It doesn’t look like a fat and protected target, but it completely protects against shrapnel.
  13. +5
    21 October 2023 10: 35
    any crafts based on the Niva are a batva - a car initially with a monocoque body and a weak engine, so to turn it into a light armored car you need to change EVERYTHING, chassis, body, transmission, engine. What is the point?
  14. +3
    21 October 2023 11: 13
    In general, the military should not have unarmored vehicles in the combat zone, just as the military should not have them at all!!! Yes, it costs more in peacetime, but it pays off in wartime.
  15. +4
    21 October 2023 11: 57
    Where is the combat Niva from here?
    Where did you get the idea that someone would allow AvtoVAZ to do something military? In order to work with the Defense Ministry, he must obtain different licenses, create a PP, the first department at the enterprise, change the work of the quality control department and the technical department to work with military documentation, organize buildings and people to work with classified documentation, get people who know how to work with DOGOZ and in general, with money from the Moscow Region so as not to go to prison, to train people to work according to military GOSTs (203, for example), to direct metrologists not only to carry out their work, but also to check software documentation, for example, and a bunch of other things. And as long as there is a demand for its civilian products, VAZ will not agree to this voluntarily.
  16. +2
    21 October 2023 13: 37
    Why reinvent the wheel? The armored cash-in-transit Niva has been mass-produced for a long time. But is it suitable for war?
    1. +5
      21 October 2023 15: 54
      she's not smart enough for collectors either
    2. 0
      21 October 2023 19: 39
      The armored cash-in-transit Niva has been mass-produced for a long time. But is it suitable for war?
      I have an impression. that she only holds a bullet from the PM.
      1. 0
        21 October 2023 20: 16
        She has the third defense br. Holds 7,62 ps.
    3. 0
      22 October 2023 01: 49
      Quote: Amateur
      Why reinvent the wheel? The armored cash-in-transit Niva has been mass-produced for a long time. But is it suitable for war?

      I would like to ask you to improve the quality of UAZ Esaul. It’s good that he, that his civilian ancestor - the Patriot - is used at the front.
  17. BAI
    0
    21 October 2023 20: 22
    Well, there (in the new territories) they are completely crazy. You can't even shoot this kind of bullshit
    [/ Center]
    In general, AvtoVAZ and military equipment are not mutual concepts. Not given. Genetically. Just as the Russian national team cannot play football, VAZ cannot make military equipment. Yes, and civilian too
  18. +4
    21 October 2023 21: 13
    Yes, fear God. What a special one - modernized, and even armored. At the front you just need transport. I repaired and sent the "heel" Oda Version 2002 to the STORM-??? division. She was welcomed “to heaven.” What kind of reservation? Come and see, Nivas, UAZs, Shishigas and Urals are ordinary, with slick tires, these are ordinary vehicles. Saturate units from company level and above with Niva-VIS pickup trucks to begin with.
    PS By the way, Hedgehog is still driving, we only send tires. Carries all the outlets and ammo equipment to the wounded, they didn’t even repaint them and didn’t remove the white license plates.
    1. +1
      22 October 2023 11: 32
      Yes, otherwise you read here, commentators write that this is not necessary, sometimes it drives poorly, but in reality, volunteers and ordinary citizens send cars to their zone and this is all necessary and helps the fighters.
  19. +1
    21 October 2023 23: 20
    Has VAZ ever dealt with specialized/military equipment on a serial scale? The most important thing is is this necessary for the VAZ?
  20. 0
    22 October 2023 01: 48
    Yeah. A lightweight multi-purpose, technologically advanced, reliable and inexpensive platform in armored (class 2 in terms of OTT and mines) and unarmored versions in the mass dimensions of the same Patriot would be irreplaceable for the Army and the National Economy. Damn, the same Patriot/Esaul can be brought more or less to a sane state. It is a pity that there is no corresponding order for development and production.
  21. 0
    22 October 2023 11: 21
    Quote: Passing by
    This is what I’m talking about, when it comes to AvtoVAZ’s own products (but not Renault’s products produced exactly there, using exactly the same principles and technologies), Russians have a completely irrational discrepancy between the picture in their heads and reality. Specifically:
    Quote: I_Alpharius
    before the introduction of all the wonderful taxes

    Extortions were introduced long before Solaris appeared on our market. IMHO, the only thing introduced after that is the recycling fee. Which then domestic producers began to pay. Moreover, benefits for the import of components were later cancelled, i.e. screwdriver assembly became less profitable, but domestic production of auto components had already completely died by that time! Those. the government, instead of stimulating the domestic auto industry, stupidly began to spread rot on it.
    But all this is unimportant in the context of the discussion, because Solaris, from the point of view of extortions, is no different from VAZ cars at all!!! Because both are assembled from foreign components, by a foreign automaker, on Russian territory. So all the talk about extortionate extortions from “normal” machines in favor of a “bucket of nuts” is another, irrational, externally induced mess that obscures reality.
    And for better brain ventilation:
    Quote: I_Alpharius
    Solaris cost 200000 rubles.


    Quote: I_Alpharius
    Now compare this Solaris from 15 years ago and modern frets. I'm afraid that the comparison will not be in favor of VAZ, unfortunately

    Once again, why, why do you, and everyone else affected by the induced confusion, make the same demands on cars with a price difference of two or more times??? What happened to your brains???

    PS: to be clear, I never downvote anyone I’m discussing with.
  22. 0
    22 October 2023 16: 44
    In general, VAZ had one car, which, if desired, could be adapted for a number of front-line needs with little effort. If you treat it with a file, of course, and treat it for childhood illnesses. 2120 "Hope".

    But is the game worth the candle?
  23. 0
    22 October 2023 21: 01
    He doesn’t do it, and he does it right, because all this is squalor.
  24. -1
    22 October 2023 21: 10
    In Togliatti they are making plans for Chinese engines with automatic transmissions. We intend to organize a screwdriver assembly of another car made in China. Where is the combat Niva from here?

    Where does the 106-horsepower engine come from?
    What requirements are specified in the terms of reference for supply tenders?
    And who writes those very requirements, how does the NMCC determine who collects data for the NMCC?
    Thanks to the author for the topic!
    Who paid for the theme?
  25. -1
    22 October 2023 21: 10
    In Togliatti they are making plans for Chinese engines with automatic transmissions. We intend to organize a screwdriver assembly of another car made in China. Where is the combat Niva from here?

    Where does the 106-horsepower engine come from?
    What requirements are specified in the terms of reference for supply tenders?
    And who writes those very requirements, how does the NMCC determine who collects data for the NMCC?
    Thanks to the author for the topic!
    Who paid for the theme?
  26. -1
    22 October 2023 21: 14
    And in addition ...
    When will Moskvich appear in the LDPR in a protected version? Moskvich-6
  27. 0
    22 October 2023 21: 38
    But the current model of the Russian business does not provide for production at all, pure “buy and sell”, in such conditions even a screwdriver assembly is a feat.
  28. +2
    22 October 2023 22: 27
    AvtoVAZ cannot exist even with protective duties and sell its excrement... its products - its managers are so EFFECTIVE. And then they want something else from him.
  29. 0
    23 October 2023 09: 35
    The author is of course right, but we live in different times. Why does the owner of a VAZ need a headache and unclear prospects and serious investments?
    Capitalism should not be confused with patriotism!
  30. 0
    26 October 2023 21: 57
    Well, afftar doesn’t understand at all what Niva is. This is a very LIGHT civilian SUV. It is good for hunting or fishing. At the front, such a machine will be killed very quickly. And if you put armor on it, it will get stuck in the first mud and die even faster. At the front, you need a vehicle that is not just all-terrain, but durable, indestructible, capable of carrying not only a driver and a passenger, but also a bunch of all sorts of junk and all sorts of attachments (for example, a machine gun), and, highly desirable, armor. This is the Tiger, and cars like it. Somehow the UAZ can. But NIVA... DON'T make my Kalashes laugh! Don't fantasize! And in order to launch something military at AvtoVAZ, you need to make so much money that it is much better to invest it in defense enterprises
    1. +1
      27 October 2023 07: 01
      Quote: futurohunter
      .. what is Niva. This is a very LIGHT civilian SUV. It's good for hunting or fishing...

      It’s nice to ride a waterfowl version for both hunting and fishing. On the water, it is not rational to realize the high power of the engine; it is difficult to install any kind of armor protection due to the small volume of the vehicle itself, but it is quite possible to actually make a front edge conveyor and even a waterfowl, only as propulsion devices on the water, in no case should you use only rotating wheels and the system the cooling should be positioned really correctly, as if it were a military procedure. And the result is a high-quality front-line transporter, and if we also provide for the possibility of installing at least some kind of autopilot or at least remote control, then I think that there would be no price at the front from such a miracle. It is important just to want to do something useful, and in this case, by definition, there is no need to use scarce components at all. It's all just a matter of interest.
      Well, to increase both the carrying capacity and a sharp increase in speed, you can additionally, not standardly, install fairings both front and rear, and if there are any problems with stability, then additional long floats can easily be installed on the sides, similar to rowing boats. Now you can increase your protection from a lot of things!
      1. 0
        27 October 2023 19: 16
        venaya
        ...high-quality front edge conveyor

        Not a bad idea. Only the Niva is too high for this. We need to put it on smaller wheels. Plus, make a rotating steering column, or remote control, as you suggest. I would not consider the floating option at all. The floating Niva, by the way, was made. She will be able to swim, and even go into the water, but she will not be able to get out. The engine is rather weak, there is no tire pressure regulation system, and I think it would be problematic to install it on the Niva.

        As for armor protection, the problem is not volume. It has already been written here that the engine is rather weak and the structure (supporting body) is flimsy. Armor will greatly increase the weight of the vehicle, and its cross-country ability will drop to the level of an SUV. Well, the chassis is not designed for such a load - it will constantly break down due to overload
  31. 0
    26 October 2023 22: 11
    I suggest afftar to book skates and bicycles am So what? Also transport!
  32. AB
    0
    27 October 2023 13: 11
    It seems that all these questions come down to financing. No matter how well the fine industry works, you can’t squeeze much out of the people. The Ilitas won’t give you money; they don’t have enough themselves. It was a different approach under the USSR, but under holy and effective capitalism, every movement costs money.
  33. -1
    28 October 2023 16: 09
    If at AvtoVAZ, as the author writes, “they are making plans for Chinese engines”... they should be shot.
  34. 0
    29 October 2023 00: 39
    Armoring civilian vehicles is useless. The protection of personnel should be based on their absence from the vehicle, on the creation of military drones based on civilian vehicles. An unmanned Niva with a robotic machine gun will attract Khaymars’ missile and thereby save the squad of our soldiers. Having gone to the front line and fired at the enemy, he will force his camouflaged firing points to reveal himself...
    1. +1
      29 October 2023 00: 43
      the same doctor
      Why have you read too much fanies and are taking ukrov for fools...
      Who will send highmars against a single machine?
      Yes, and finally, you have crazy ideas... Don’t consider your enemies fools...
  35. 0
    26 November 2023 15: 38
    Without a diesel engine, she can’t go to the Northern Military District. Gasoline is good, but diesel is better
  36. 0
    16 December 2023 13: 57
    Thanks to the author for the article.
    As an abstract average reader I would agree with the ideas.
    As an experienced breeder - categorically NO.

    1) One of the advantages of Niva on off-road is that it is lightweight. BUT... it has an INSANELY stunted engine. 83 hp Despite the fact that this is an all-wheel drive car, i.e. Its power loss is constantly due to friction in the transfer case and axles. It does not have a power reserve; it is not enough even in the database. If you're planning on adding armor, that's crazy.
    2) NIVA has stock adjustable front wheel hubs. NIvovods always change them to IVEK ones.
    3) NIVA has a rather weak network, i.e. Akum + generator in stock. Again, the nivovods are tuning all this.
    4) The spare tire is in stock inside the engine compartment. But the spare tire is standard. The car must be reserved and the wheels will obviously not be road wheels but MT (mud) ones. Where should I put such a spare tire? The answer is to tune it, or use an expedition trunk or put a collective farm power bumper on the back.
    5) The Niva’s suspension is IDEAL... I’m not kidding, I drive through speed bumps without braking))) BUT without ARMOR. If you want to add armor, it’s again a question of suspension tuning.
    6) Weak brakes... for a stunted engine and a light body are enough... archaically UNVENTED in front, drums in the rear.
    7) Being 185 cm tall... without the armored helmet and equipment of course... it’s a bit cramped. In all this, I don’t know how to fit in there.
    8) It has no frame. You can find a lot of videos where they simply tear a cornfield off the road, trying to pull it out. And there is no way to strengthen the supporting body.


    Conclusion...
    The Niva is good as it is, BUT ONLY as a cheap, unpretentious UNARMORIZED or LOW-ARMORIZED 2-SEATER car.

    It has ZERO modernization potential for military purposes!
    This is the case when, pulling a thread, you have to pull and pull... and in fact, to make a normal military vehicle from NIVA is to make a NEW car. Frame (like a UAZ), with a new engine, with different CV joints, gearboxes in the transfer case and gearbox... with new shock absorbers and springs, brakes, a generator, space for batteries, etc. and so on. It will just be a DIFFERENT car.
    1. 0
      21 January 2024 03: 43
      Yes, the engine must be at least 150-200 hp.
  37. 0
    21 January 2024 03: 41
    Another proof. that this branch of mechanical engineering should be nationalized. Previously, Soviet “galoshes” managed to cope and regularly flew into space and sank into the depths of the seas.