TGP complexes for the Armed Forces of Ukraine: goals and objectives of automated firing points in the northwestern military zone

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TGP complexes for the Armed Forces of Ukraine: goals and objectives of automated firing points in the northwestern military zone

“Since the beginning of the conflict in Ukraine, many companies and countries have tried to develop new technologies in the military sphere. Today it's devDroid's turn to present us with a remote control and artificial intelligence (AI) complex - the TGP remote-controlled shooting system, designed for use in trenches and shelters.

The AI ​​in the TGP combat module is programmed to recognize movements and manpower. After target detection weapon rises from the trench and gives a signal to the operator. The artificial intelligence system is designed to detect the target, calculate ballistics and aim the weapon with high accuracy, and the operator only confirms the opening of fire.



The development of AI-controlled combat systems, such as the TGP combat module, could significantly influence the course of the war in Ukraine.”
Excerpts from the media of Ukraine and Western countries

Remotely controlled weapon modules (RCWM) are becoming increasingly common on the battlefield, although this mainly means RCWM installed on various types of lightly armored vehicles. We will talk about another direction in the development of this type of weapons - portable and portable DUMV.

Automated firing points (AOT)


This is exactly how the promising DUMV were named by the author about 15 years ago within the framework of a concept that was proposed as a promising direction for the development of one small private company engaged in a similar area, in which the author at that time earned his living. Unfortunately, for a number of reasons, this topic turned out to be unclaimed, despite the fact that at the same time an application for the implementation of a similar project was received from one of the serious government agencies.

Much later, in February 2019, this topic was discussed on the pages of Military Review in the material Remotely controlled complexes: automated firing points.

The DUMV-AOT concept is based on the simplest system for targeting a target and ensuring firing of existing models of small arms and grenade launchers used in the armed forces.

No stabilization, multi-barreled machine guns, robotic platforms and the like. A simple supporting structure - a tripod, guidance drives, a car battery as a source of electricity, the cheapest civilian/industrial means of target detection, a civilian laptop or industrial computer to control all this.


First sketches and 3D model of AOT

It cannot be said that the proposed concept was some kind of revelation; in fact, all this was already being developed at the same time by defense concerns of the leading countries of the world and was even demonstrated in works of art.


The TRAP-250D remote-controlled weapon platform with a large-caliber rifle installed and the TRAP T2 remote-controlled sniper launcher (above), as well as the fictional AOT from the feature film “The Jackal” (below)

It would seem that if automated firing points were developed, but did not become widespread, then this means that there is something wrong with them?

Far from a fact. Before the start of the Russian Special Military Operation (SVO) in Ukraine, and now before the Hamas invasion of Israel, much was denied and not taken into account by the leading armies of the world, and then they had to pay for science in blood. So, both the appearance and non-appearance of one or another promising weapon model in supply does not mean its effectiveness or futility. Sometimes a promising complex may not be adopted for service only because there is simply no place for it in the current structure of the army (no one to carry it, no one to carry it, no one to control it, etc.).

devDroid TGP


The Ukrainian TGP complex from devDroid has some interesting, but at the same time quite controversial features.

First of all, this is the ability to change the height of the weapons module, that is, the ability to raise/lower small arms mounted on the TGP module - this potentially allows you to increase the survivability of the complex under enemy direct fire. On the other hand, the question arises to what extent this option will be in demand, whether the complex will have the necessary reaction, otherwise, while it is moving forward, the enemy may already leave the affected area.


Device for lifting, folding and guidance of the TGP complex from devDroid

Apparently, the weapon is aimed using a skew, thanks to the same lifting and folding mechanisms. It is unclear how the weapon is rotated horizontally, either by rotating the entire platform, or by the same skew mechanism - in the second case, the TGP complex should have fairly limited pointing angles.

The main feature of the TGP complex is the stated use of artificial intelligence, and in fact, software, apparently comparable to the fact that a frame is drawn around faces when shooting with a smartphone. As a means of increasing the effectiveness of the initial detection of the enemy, it can be quite functional, however, the lack of intelligence in such software leads to constant false alarms - reactions to moving branches, shadows, and so on, gradually, the operator can begin to treat the alarms shown by such a system without of special interest.

If we talk about fully automatic guidance, then everything is even more complicated here; when shooting not “point-blank”, but at any decent range, you need weather data, compensation for barrel bending and taking into account other factors.


It’s unlikely that you should rely on AI in such a responsible matter as the destruction of your own kind, at least for now...

Among the obvious visible shortcomings of the TGP complex, one can see the impossibility of using increased-capacity magazines in the current configuration, as well as the absence of a forced reloading mechanism in the event of a misfire.

Ultimately, the shortcomings of the TGP complex can be eliminated in the process of its development; the question is different: to what extent such weapons are in demand in modern military conflicts in general and in the Northern Military District zone in particular. It is characteristic that, taking into account the current situation, the applicability of DUMV-AOT will be comparable for both Russia and Ukraine.

Purpose and opportunities


In the future, we will use the abbreviation AOT, since the concept of DUMV most often refers to modules placed on various types of ground vehicles. In principle, the potential capabilities of AOT were discussed in the above material "Remotely controlled complexes...", however, the applicability of this type of weapon in the realities of the air defense is a topic for another discussion.

According to information from reliable sources, some people with a specific type of activity have expressed the idea that the AOT lacks the mobility necessary in modern warfare. If you imagine a picture of fighters conducting an offensive with AOT, constantly dragging them from place to place, then the picture really looks phantasmagorical.

However, the issue is that this type of weapon is primarily intended for defense and not for attack. No, of course, AOT can be used extremely effectively for reconnaissance and sabotage activities, but that’s a different question.


Airborne remote combat module RWS Protector Super Lite

In general, speaking about SVO, the claim “not mobile” looks somehow strange. Is the SVO itself “mobile”? Isn’t this the same Northern Military District, within which, for about a year now, the fighting has been very much reminiscent of the positional battles of the First World War?

What worked effectively for us during the First World War? Leaving artillery out of the equation - these are minefields, machine guns and fortifications - no one makes claims about minefields that they are “not mobile enough,” not to mention trenches and long-term firing points (pillboxes).

In essence, AOTs are in many ways a functional hybrid of minefields, machine guns/grenade launchers and pillboxes.

On the one hand, AOTs are “consumables” - their low cost (if it is provided) allows them to be exchanged for a destroyed enemy, as happens with mines. On the other hand, the method of destruction itself is based on remote influence - shooting from hand-held weapons placed on them, such as machine guns with high-capacity magazines, machine guns, hand-held anti-tank grenade launchers, and the like). Well, a conditional pillbox is just a position equipped for the use of AOT; it does not have to be highly protected; it is possible that camouflage will be more appropriate.

Digressing from the topic, it is known that magazines with increased capacity are considered very unreliable, however, problems with them often arise during intensive movements, when multi-row chains of cartridges begin to shift or warp due to impacts; as part of the AOT, such problems will most likely be minimized. In any case, the wedge of a weapon or magazine as part of an AOT should not lead to the death of fighters.

For example, returning to tank battle near Novoadarovka, where the outcome of the battle was decided by a single Russian tank, but minefields had a significant impact on the course of this battle.

What if, in addition to minefields, KLA positions were deployed at several points - a pair with machine gun weapons, a pair with grenade launchers? Maybe a tank wouldn't be needed?

Before the shooting starts, it will be very difficult to detect AOTs - they are not visible to a thermal imager (their temperature will be equal to the temperature of the surrounding area), you will have to shoot every bush, every suspicious object - so there won’t be enough ammunition. They can be deployed and camouflaged in a short time, the method of placement and camouflage depends only on the imagination of the fighters, and having gained experience working with AOT, they come up with such things - it doesn’t seem like much. For example, if there are strong trees, AOT can even be mounted on them using a special clamp bracket - the firing sector would be open.

Two AOTs with PKTs of 200 rounds each and two AOTs with 4-8 RPGs each could destroy most of the enemy forces with dagger fire, even if in the process they themselves would be destroyed by return fire. Operators could be located several kilometers from the battlefield, in complete safety (at least from the fire of those they are working on with the help of AOT).


Several AOTs with small arms and grenade launchers would crush enemy equipment and manpower without risking the life and health of soldiers of the Russian Armed Forces

In urban areas, the possibilities for camouflaging AOTs are even higher; they can be installed in the most unexpected places for the enemy, for example, shooting them with dowels to the ceiling in an apartment in a multi-story building or on the roof of a balcony.

AOT's resistance to the effects of enemy fire will also be significantly higher than that of a person, in particular, to the effects of increased pressure from high-explosive or thermobaric ammunition. A small fragment in a person’s leg is a wound, the soldier must be evacuated, a small fragment in the leg of an AOT tripod is just a small hole that does not affect the functionality of the product.

Soldiers, to the best of their resourcefulness, can provide additional AOT protection, for example, using damaged elements of body armor (shot plates, aramid fabric), fragments of armored vehicles (for example, their hatches), improvised items - sewer manhole covers, frying pans, cast iron pipes or bathtubs, bricks, sandbags and much more.

Another example is the feature film “Hell's Finest,” which is said to be very realistically shot. How much would the defenders' capabilities increase if they had 2 AOTs with RMB in each building? The operator of a camouflaged AOT can wait until the last moment until the entire enemy group is drawn into the room, and then shoot it point-blank without risking himself.

To provide power and control, both special, protected cables and household/industrial ones can be used, that is, the AOT can provide a connector box for a dozen twisted pair pins and terminals for VVG type cables. Instructions and crimping tools - with this set, prudent fighters will weave such a web of cables that it will only be possible to damage them all at once only with a nuclear strike or months of continuous artillery fire. Moreover, the cables can be buried in the ground, routed through sewer and ventilation ducts, through basements, and so on.

AOT must work together, in a single complex of a higher level. A specialized solution using AOT was discussed in the material Anti-terror vehicle: an integrated spatially distributed sniper complex, however, in the NWO zone, simpler, cheaper and more reliable AOTs are needed.


The concept of an integrated spatially distributed sniper complex for the fight against terrorists - given the number of migrants arriving in Russia from countries unknown to science, we may soon need them

There is the possibility of spatial separation of surveillance and firing means, for example, when there will be 10-2 reconnaissance and guidance modules for 3 firing modules. In this case, even if one AOT that has revealed itself by fire is destroyed, the most expensive reconnaissance and guidance modules will be preserved and will ensure the operation of the remaining AOT.

Conclusions


The topic of AOT has not yet been disclosed. The capabilities that complexes of this type can provide to the armed forces are very high.

Considering only the use of AOT in defense, this is the destruction of the advancing enemy, a distracting function when AOT will only provoke the enemy towards themselves, and snipers and machine gunners will be engaged in its destruction, conducting counter-sniper combat, covering retreating or regrouping units, and much more.

Regarding the Ukrainian TGP complex from the devDroid company, for now these are only sketches, outlines of future means of armed warfare, which, potentially, will allow our enemy to significantly reduce personnel losses when conducting defensive actions against an equal or superior enemy, that is, against us.

I would like to hope that the RF Armed Forces will receive similar, but more effective and inexpensive AOT, and most importantly, earlier and in larger quantities than they will be provided by the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
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  1. +4
    14 October 2023 05: 02
    “The guns were unloaded from the Diavona, but radars had to be built.
    While the Arzaks were installing the installations, the Menvit helicopter pilots climbed to the highest peaks of the Around-the-World Mountains, cleared the sites, and installed turntables for the guns. The rotating radar antenna detected the approach of any living creature, the electronic device sent a radio signal to Ranavir, and in addition, pointed a self-loading cannon at a living target.”
  2. +4
    14 October 2023 05: 21
    The problem is the same as with the proliferation of robots in manufacturing: labor costs.
    1. +4
      14 October 2023 09: 31
      In artillery shooting classes:
      - The gun shoots, and the projectile flies along a parabola ...
      - Comrade Major, and if you put the gun on its side, then you can shoot around the corner?
      - You can, but the statute is not allowed!
      I wonder if there is a BUK-1 (curved-barreled armored installation) in service... BUK-3. The latter, when hit by armored vehicles, folded down to ground level without any damage.
  3. KCA
    +5
    14 October 2023 05: 43
    The RF Armed Forces are full of automated firing points, they just aren’t on the front line, they are used to guard ICBM silos, and what the heck are they guarding there, what is Peresvet alone worth?
    1. +1
      14 October 2023 12: 41
      In the GDR they installed automatic firing machine guns on the defensive wall in Berlin.
      1. 0
        14 October 2023 17: 35
        Quote: vadim dok
        In the GDR they installed automatic firing machine guns on the defensive wall in Berlin.

        In Israel, it seems there were also turrets. At least the video shows how it is disabled
    2. 0
      14 October 2023 23: 41
      Quote: KCA
      The RF Armed Forces are full of automated firing points, they just aren’t on the front line, they are used to guard ICBM silos, and what the heck is there to guard?
      Everything has already been invented and shown at the exhibition in 2017...
      soldier
      1. KCA
        +1
        15 October 2023 08: 38
        What is it like in 2017, I learned about automatic turrets about 40 years ago, and by chance it was inspired by music
  4. +1
    14 October 2023 06: 04
    I would like to hope that the RF Armed Forces will receive similar, but more effective and inexpensive AOT, and most importantly, earlier and in larger quantities than they will be provided by the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
    Yes, sure. But..... we are late, the complexes are good in defense, but we are on the offensive, we urgently need mobile complexes. request
  5. +4
    14 October 2023 06: 25
    Quote: KCA
    The RF Armed Forces are full of automated firing points, they just aren’t on the front line, they are used to guard ICBM silos, and what the heck are they guarding there, what is Peresvet alone worth?

    What is Peresvet worth? And why, if we are doing so well with automatic systems, are they not on the front line?
    1. 0
      14 October 2023 15: 15
      What can overexposure do on the front line? Shoot down Maviks flying a kilometer away from him? Automatic machine guns can only help somehow during a meat assault, unless, of course, a wog or a mine flies towards them
  6. 0
    14 October 2023 06: 29
    What prevents the long-existing Adunok complex from being used?
  7. +3
    14 October 2023 07: 37
    The first time I learned about a small-sized stationary combat module was playing a computer toy on an ancient ZX-Spectrum back in the 80s. I think indoors their electronics will be powerless against flash-bang grenades.
  8. Owl
    +1
    14 October 2023 09: 41
    To overcome such obstacles, it is necessary, first of all, to reconnaissance and detection, subsequent destruction either by high-precision ammunition (by coordinates or using target illumination with a laser beam), or destruction (suppression) of the control system (interference or destruction of wired data transmission means). Yes, fighting this type of active defense means will be an expensive undertaking, but the lives of soldiers are more expensive.
  9. +1
    14 October 2023 10: 13
    It is possible that the DPR, and not the Ukrainian Armed Forces, were the first to make a remote-controlled weapon module! This machine gun installation has been reported more than once on the Internet, and, in my opinion, it was demonstrated at the “exhibition of achievements of the DPR military-industrial complex” ...
    And by and large... more than once in books about the war, a “trick” was described when, if necessary, to divert the enemy’s attention to the “other side” or to hide the absence of fighters at a certain position, soldiers (partisans) imitated shelling of the enemy , pulling a long rope tied to the trigger... Or, hanging a load from the trigger and placing a candle under the rope... (etc....etc.)
    But, in my opinion, the people of Sevastopol acted more original! The Germans hesitated for a long time to attack Soviet positions; because There was intense machine gun fire coming from there! But when the machine guns fell silent and the Germans finally took up positions, it turned out that the Soviet soldiers were not there! True, there were machine guns, but they were put into “work” with the help of a gramophone! (There were other “electrical things” needed for the plan, but the “command device” was the gramophone!) wink
  10. +1
    14 October 2023 10: 58
    Why not combine thoughts and a quadcopter as one of the areas of development? Let’s say there is an assault on the city, several of these devices, after the UAV bombs the roofs of the tallest building in the area, sit on this roof and wait to appear on the streets, in the windows of enemy buildings. Why is this necessary? To block enemy movement in the rear (delivery of ammunition and moving reinforcements to the front line, evacuation of the wounded, reconnaissance of enemy movements, blocking the enemy’s retreat to new positions). Turkey produces something similar, only with their drone you can shoot in flight, but you need one that will fly where you need it and wait for the target in an energy-saving mode. It will also be possible to set up ambushes in this way, without the sniper having to sit for hours, and for the operators to take shifts in comfortable conditions in front of the monitor or destroy vehicles in the near rear. https://youtube.com/shorts/Vk4wKhL5w5A?si=5W4XSjAXIQ1EmWKP
  11. +2
    14 October 2023 11: 08
    Belarusian "Adunok".




  12. +3
    14 October 2023 11: 14
    Concern "Kalashnikov".



    1. +1
      14 October 2023 12: 03
      We saw a lot of things at exhibitions...
      1. +2
        14 October 2023 14: 08
        The bad thing is that this is at exhibitions, not among the troops.
  13. +2
    14 October 2023 12: 04
    Israeli Smash Hopper system.




    я
  14. +3
    14 October 2023 12: 58
    Wangyu, the topic of portable (but not towed, and not on transport) DUMV/AOT will not take off en masse.
    Three reasons:
    1) The main thing in a combat sense is the fundamental lack of rigidity in fixing the weapon. Due to the fundamental limitation on the weight parameters of the frame, for the possibility of manual carrying. Those. Firing in bursts is pointless, only shooting in single shots. With a few second breaks between shots to stabilize the oscillating mech. systems. And if the weight of the complex is very, very limited (a dozen or two kilograms, for example, for carrying by one fighter), then additional time is required for the subsequent bringing of the barrel to the firing line, compensating for the displacement of the support on the ground.
    2) Very low efficiency/cost ratio, i.e. low combat effectiveness due to low fire performance and at the same time insignificant survivability of the complex after its detection. After its first use (when, at best, it will have time to hit one or two targets, since it only fires single shots). his position will be revealed. And if it doesn’t “fold” to the ground, then it will be hit by any well-aimed shooter (not to mention snipers), even if not with the first shot. Where to hit - just a silhouette sticking out motionlessly from the terrain, and sooner rather than later, you will hit the control unit, the television camera, the weapon itself. For folding complexes, everything is also bad, firstly, they can also be hit by shooters, and secondly, they will simply be bombarded with a mortar, because everyone understands perfectly well that this bandura will not go anywhere from this trench, it will just stand there, waiting for its mine .
    3) A fighter with a machine gun is immeasurably better in terms of efficiency/cost. It's stupidly cheaper. Yes, a person over a life cycle of 80 years will be much more expensive, but war has its own logic, and precisely as a unit for war it will be cheaper, all expenses are wages and provision of mat resources. And the combat effectiveness, in general, is orders of magnitude better, it can be used in defense, on the offensive, in storming cities, and what it can’t do, no matter how stupid a tripod with a machine gun is. And its production does not require a bunch of super-technological production facilities, which are irreparably destroyed by one very massive attack of the Kyrgyz Republic. And its production does not require rare earth elements, which may suddenly cease to be available (by definition, a strong enemy cannot be a fool).
    1. 0
      14 October 2023 15: 35
      This is for now. Technologies and methods of war are changing. Tomorrow is an era without pilots, without crew, etc. And a person, as now, will depend on the level of preparation and training his place in the hierarchy.
      1. 0
        15 October 2023 13: 54
        So here we are talking about stationary options. Of course, a quadcopter or a robotic dog with a machine gun can already compete with a fighter in efficiency. But of course the cost will be at least the same as half the caliber
  15. 0
    14 October 2023 13: 20
    As far as I know, back in Afghanistan we used something similar based on the AGS-17.
  16. +1
    14 October 2023 13: 25
    In positional combat and when protecting objects, these devices are really effective. The only question is about the reliability of the software for operating the units in a fully automatic mode. But the offensive is the question. Moreover, the question is both about the type of mobile platform and its combat stability, and about the reliability of the software (so as not to shoot your own). But if you operate the device manually, there is no particular advantage from its use, but the limitation of the maneuver is visible.
  17. 0
    14 October 2023 15: 13
    "It is unclear how the weapon is rotated horizontally"
    This is a classic 6-degree scheme, most simulators are made this way.

    “Before the shooting starts, it will be very difficult to detect AOTs - they are not visible to a thermal imager (their temperature will be equal to the temperature of the surrounding area)”
    There will definitely be contrast.
  18. _6
    +1
    14 October 2023 15: 17
    The future of the battlefield is robotic platforms, as well as autonomous ones. As an example of use here:
    1. _6
      +2
      14 October 2023 15: 18
      And here is a prototype. Already in metal.
  19. _6
    0
    14 October 2023 15: 24
    A good and cheap device is to combine horn-type binoculars for peeking out of cover with a PKP. Then the fighter will be able to shoot without raising his head. Or from around the corner. Cheap and cheerful. And most importantly, you can do it en masse.
  20. 0
    14 October 2023 16: 35
    The idea has its place. As a sentry, an ambush, a hidden advanced secret - whether anti-personnel, anti-tank, or even possibly anti-aircraft in defensive formations - this is completely technologically possible. Among the advantages is the safety of l/s, invisibility for thermal imagers. Of the minuses, instability in the event of accidental or "preventive" shelling (does not maneuver, does not take cover), instability in non-standard actions and deception, which will certainly be used by the enemy, and accordingly. losses of expensive units, again control - the wire breaks, unmasks, the radio is jammed. But in general, you have to stay in battle. The sensible stuff will take root, the bullshit will fall off
  21. 0
    14 October 2023 16: 44
    During the Soviet Union, they made lifting and retractable installations for strengthening lines for the UOS. The only thing missing was AI. https://multimedia.Ministry of Defense.rf/multimedia/photo/gallery.htm?id=3374@cmsPhotoGallery
    https://topwar.ru/131477-universalnoe-ognevoe-sooruzhenie-uos-gorchak.html
  22. BAI
    0
    14 October 2023 17: 24
    The automatic firing module was developed with the participation of our military unit back in 2000. Everything came down to the regulatory framework for use
    1. 0
      14 October 2023 19: 11
      Here. but the process of dehumanizing the enemy no longer seems impossible, unfortunately. However, there is another problem - the reaction to threats to oneself. The question is not even the price of the device, but the price of the delivered item. We will find an answer to everything, if we do not reach the third world with sticks and stones.
  23. 0
    14 October 2023 19: 38
    Weren't they guarding Gaza like that? If this is so, then October 7 demonstrated their main drawback - stationarity. If you put them in concrete, then it will be safe for people there too.
  24. 0
    15 October 2023 08: 14
    If you imagine a picture of fighters conducting an offensive with AOT, constantly dragging them from place to place, then the picture really looks phantasmagorical.
    ...yes, this is not a problem..in WWII there was a standard infantry DShK on a spiked carriage, then a KPV on a wheeled carriage, now an NSV on a tripod...the problem is different...stability in soft soils..and if the calculation is "large" will correct the situation during the battle, then ss AOT will be impossible...well, and the main thing is a wedge...calculation will also correct the situation...but with AOT it will not...well, in general, ART is a sound idea that should have long ago put into production as soon as it was invented
  25. 0
    15 October 2023 13: 57
    AOT technology is primarily defensive, but now we would rather
    you need to think about how to suppress control of such points using a continuous electronic warfare field. We need a mobile installation that can close and suppress the operation of any enemy electronics over an area of ​​several square kilometers, ideally; tens to hundreds. Something like this.
  26. -1
    15 October 2023 20: 44
    It’s been a long time since robots have been used in assault operations. But our Ministry of Defense can only eat meat. Apparently, when all the Westerners switch to this, then our turn will come
  27. 0
    17 October 2023 15: 01
    Considering only the use of AOT in defense....
    This is called a one-way approach....
    Design engineers are taught that when you design (invent) a new piece of equipment, you must take into account the maximum possible number of circumstances of its use and take them into account as much as possible. The completeness of your coverage determines whether your product will be a momentary solution or an ingenious creation used for many decades.
    And here we have a minimalist approach.
  28. 0
    29 October 2023 03: 47
    >their temperature will be equal to the temperature of the surrounding area

    The thesis is completely wrong, it is clear that the temperature of the material manifests itself in the greenhouse according to the heat capacity, covers, capes, etc. will be required here, but this can all be solved.
    The idea itself is wonderful and will undoubtedly be developed.

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