The Poliment-Redut air defense system will receive an anti-ship function

82
The Poliment-Redut air defense system will receive an anti-ship function
Corvettes pr. 20380 from the Pacific fleet


Modern Russian warships of several projects are equipped with the Poliment-Redut anti-aircraft missile system. This air defense system is capable of using several types of guided missiles with different characteristics and hitting targets at short, medium or long range. In addition, measures have been taken to expand the functions of the air defense system. After recent modifications, it can attack surface targets, and in the future it will be able to hit coastal targets.



From project to service


The promising shipborne air defense system 9K96 "Redut" (later "Poliment-Redut") was created at the Moscow Central Design Bureau "Almaz" (now part of the Almaz-Antey concern) since the early nineties. The goal of the project was to create a new shipborne air defense system compatible with several types of missiles, incl. new development. Due to this, they planned to ensure the ability to hit air targets over a wide range of ranges.

At the beginning of the 9s, the Redut project reached the stage of testing and installation of finished systems on carrier ships. The first product to receive the 96K20380 product was the Soobrazitelny corvette, the first production ship of Project XNUMX. Subsequently, the following ships of this and other types began to be equipped with such air defense systems. At the same time, the designation “Poliment-Redut” appeared - the code of the compatible radar was included in the name of the air defense system.

By the end of the 9s, “Redut” at Soobrazitelny passed preliminary tests, after which the next stage of inspections began. Over the next decade, the 96KXNUMX product demonstrated its potential. As testing continued, new types of missile defense systems were brought in. During such events, the ability of the complex to combat standard air targets was first tested. In addition, additional possibilities were explored.


Lead ship pr. 20380 "Guarding". In front of the superstructure, the "Dirk" ZRAK is visible - the corvette has not yet received the "Poliment-Redut"

State tests of the Poliment-Redut air defense system were completed only by the end of the tenth years. Based on their results, the complex was recommended for adoption. By this time, the product was in serial production and was already installed on several types of ships. Some of the carriers were accepted into the Navy, and new ones were expected to be delivered.

With advanced features


The main part of the fire tests of the 9K96 complex involved firing at various air targets. Launches of other kinds were also carried out. Thus, in June 2014, it became known that the Poliment-Redut of the Soobrazitelny ship for the first time attacked a surface target simulating an enemy ship with an anti-aircraft missile. The launch was carried out in a difficult jamming environment, but the rocket completed its task.

Subsequently, carrier ships of the 9K96 product repeatedly performed similar firings and confirmed its ability to hit surface targets. At the same time, in official communications from the Ministry of Defense and in the news The media on this topic did not name the specific types of missiles used. Published photo and video materials also did not allow unambiguous identification of models and modifications of ammunition.

The latest news about testing an anti-aircraft complex as an anti-ship one arrived just the other day. On October 9, the Izvestia publication, citing its sources in the Ministry of Defense, reported the successful completion of tests of anti-aircraft missiles in a modified version. Now modernized missiles with anti-ship missile functions will be included in the ammunition load of several types of ships equipped with Poliment-Redut.


Frigate "Admiral Gorshkov" pr. 22350. 32 cells for 9M96 and 9M100 missiles are visible behind the artillery installation

At the same time, the development of missiles and the expansion of their functions does not stop. Izvestia writes about a new modification of the existing missiles, as a result of which they will be able to destroy ground targets. They cannot yet say how soon testing of such products will begin and when they will enter service.

Technical potential


The 9K96 Poliment-Redut product is an anti-aircraft missile system for surface ships, designed to detect and destroy air - and now surface - targets over a wide range of ranges. The air defense system includes short, medium and long range missiles, which provides increased flexibility and improves overall effectiveness.

Depending on the type and equipment of the carrier ship, the operation of the 9K96 air defense system is provided by the Furke-2 or Poliment radar station. Thus, the latter, created specifically for use with Redut, includes four phased arrays with all-round visibility and a target detection range of up to hundreds of kilometers. Each of the Poliment antennas can simultaneously track 4 targets and provide them with fire. In addition, the complex's radar can transmit target designation to other anti-aircraft weapons of the ship.

All types of missiles are used with a unified vertical launcher. PU has a modular architecture; each module has four cells for transport and launch containers for missiles. Depending on the available volumes inside the hull, the ship receives from one to three such modules. Compatible missiles of all types use a “cold” start with ejection from the TPK using a special powder charge.


9М100 rocket

As part of the Poliment-Redut project, two main missiles and their modifications were developed. To hit targets at long and medium ranges, different versions of the 9M96 missile defense system are used. The longest range is shown by the 9M96E2 and 9M96E2-1 products - 120 and 150 km, respectively. The 9M96 missile has a launch range of 50 km. The 9M96 series missile defense systems are made in housings 5-5,6 m long with a diameter of 273 mm. Weight – up to 600 kg with a 24 kg warhead. An UVPU cell can accommodate one TPK with such a missile defense system.

The 10M15 short-range missile is designed to destroy objects at a distance of up to 9-100 km. It has a length of approx. 3,2 m and diameter 200 mm. The reduced diameter of the rocket made it possible to place four containers in one cell of the launcher.

The 9M96 medium- and long-range missiles use a combined control system. Flight to the target area is carried out using inertial navigation according to pre-entered coordinates. Then the active radar homing head is turned on, ensuring proximity to the target. The 9M100 product uses an infrared seeker. At the same time, the vertical launch required the introduction of a turnaround system in a given direction after exiting the TPK.

The first carriers of the 9K96 Poliment-Redut air defense system were corvettes Project 20380. They receive three UVPU modules with 12 cells, placed between the artillery mount and the superstructure. The Fourke-2 radar is used. It should be noted that “Poliment-Redut” is available only on serial corvettes of Project 20380. The lead ship “Steregushchy” received different anti-aircraft weapons due to delays in the development of the air defense system. However, during a future modernization it will be equipped with a new 9K96.

The modernized corvette project “20385” is distinguished by an elongated hull. Due to this, it was possible to place another launcher module below the deck and increase the number of cells to 16.


Corvette "Stoikiy" fires the "Poliment-Redut" air defense system

The frigates of Project 22350 carry twice as much ammunition for the Poliment-Reduta. They also have eight modules of four cells each in the bow part of the deck. In addition, such ships are initially equipped with the Poliment radar with a set of phased arrays and related equipment.

Dual use


To date, the Russian Navy has included nine corvettes, Project 20380, and all of them, with the exception of the leading pennant, carry the modern 9K96 air defense system and can use different types of missiles. The lead corvette of the updated Project 20385 with similar capabilities was also commissioned. Frigates of Project 22350 are not yet distinguished by their large number - there are only two such ships in service.

There are eight corvettes, project 20380/20385/20386, at various stages of construction. One frigate, Project 22350, will soon be transferred to the Navy, and eight more such hulls are under construction or at least under contract.

Thus, in the medium or long term, all of our main fleets will include several dozen frigates and corvettes carrying the Poliment-Redut anti-aircraft missile system and other guided missile weapons. At the same time, it cannot be ruled out that such an air defense system will be used in future warship projects.

Corvettes Project 20380/20385/20386 and frigates Project 22350 use the Uran missile system as the main strike weapon to combat enemy ships. Based on the results of recently completed work, they will be able to use the Poliment-Redut air defense system in an anti-ship role. It should be noted that in terms of combat characteristics, its missile defense system is inferior to the specialized anti-ship missile system X-35, but surpasses it in flight characteristics.


SAM "Reduta" makes a turn towards the target

Work is reported on the creation of new modifications of the 9M96 and 9M100 missiles to engage ground targets. Such products will become a kind of addition to the Caliber missile system, used with the 3S14 universal firing systems. The 9K96 missile defense system is inferior to the Caliber cruise missiles in terms of range and warhead, but has a higher speed and has homing capabilities.

Versatility and flexibility


The modification of the standard Poliment-Redut air defense system and its missiles for firing at surface and, in the future, ground targets is of great interest. By receiving updated missile defense systems, a warship of one type or another retains all its capabilities in the context of air defense and at the same time increases its strike potential. At the same time, anti-aircraft missiles do not become the only “surface-to-surface” weapons and complement existing systems.

In terms of their characteristics, anti-aircraft missiles outperform existing anti-ship missiles and water-to-surface products, but are inferior to them in other respects. However, together they form a weapon system with broad strike capabilities and the ability to attack targets over a wide range of ranges. In addition, the ship's crew will be able to select ammunition that best suits the specific situation and intended target.

In general, the current revision of the 9K96 Poliment-Redut air defense system is useful and promising. It will improve the combat qualities and potential of modern and future types of ships. At the same time, new combat capabilities were obtained at minimal cost - only minor modifications to individual units and software were required. This simplicity of the project is an additional important advantage.
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  1. +8
    12 October 2023 04: 00
    It’s certainly not bad, but how will target designation be given over the horizon and what kind of warhead is this, as much as 24 kg, of which ten kilograms of explosives? No, let air defense be provided first.
    1. +4
      12 October 2023 09: 17
      and what kind of warhead is this, as much as 24 kg, of which there are ten kilograms of explosives

      With the modern fashion for ships made of light alloys, which are critically dependent on electronics that are absolutely unprotected, detonating a fragmentation warhead even of such weight can do a lot of damage... The ship itself, of course, will not sink - but its combat effectiveness will clearly decrease sharply..
      1. +1
        12 October 2023 10: 37
        apparently the time has come to return to ships: torpedo bulkheads, double bottoms and armor according to the “all or nothing” principle
        The weight of the armor can be reduced by using spacers and ceramics
        as well as ship-based KAZs of the Arena type - but it’s hard to believe
        and the ship’s remote sensing Relict looks fantastic so far
        1. +2
          12 October 2023 11: 18
          Somehow you can’t hang DZ on the HEADLIGHT canvas... But they are huge on ships...
          1. -6
            12 October 2023 12: 30
            the side and superstructure are already protected radio-absorbing ceramic foam
            You can try adding large-sized remote sensing devices to the board and superstructure
            but the Poliment radar canvas is already protected radiotransparent ceramics
            based on zirconium, aluminum or magnesium dioxides
          2. -3
            12 October 2023 14: 12
            Quote: Vladimir_2U
            and what kind of warhead is this, weighing as much as 24 kg, of which ten kilograms are explosive?

            Just right for the unmanned boats that Ukraine is currently attacking.
            1. -1
              13 October 2023 03: 40
              Quote: Bad_gr
              Just right for the unmanned boats that Ukraine is currently attacking.

              To which this missile still needs to be aimed. Because it is completely unclear from what distances a ship can detect a low-profile BEC. And if from a distance of confident destruction of the MZA, then the missiles in this case are of no use. But let's say. But what is the use of a 24 kg warhead when operating against ground targets?!
            2. +1
              14 October 2023 17: 43
              Quote: Bad_gr
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              and what kind of warhead is this, weighing as much as 24 kg, of which ten kilograms are explosive?

              This is a routine event to develop an algorithm for combat use at a dagger distance (line-of-sight range), because in all fleets it is recommended to strike missiles as the means with the shortest response to use, the idea turns on the gun/main battery (they may also need zeroing, and the caliber small) and torpedoes are launched. Anti-ship missiles at such a short distance are ineffective, because they simply may not have time to turn on the seeker, lock on to the target and have time to aim. So this is the usual routine procedure for practicing combat algorithms.
        2. 0
          13 October 2023 00: 25
          What if the AFAR canvases for modern ships are slightly immersed in the setting by a couple of tens of cm.
          And at the level of the superstructure body, opposite the antenna sheet, make anti-fragmentation protection from a radio-transparent layer. Which could stop the smallest fragments. But larger fragments could pierce this hull, but at the same time the fragments themselves would slow down and collapse. And they would be caught by a layer of stretched Kevlar. Its task would be to capture delayed and damaged fragments (both fragments of destructive elements and fragments of that same protective radio-absorbing material).

          And to protect against damage from large fragments, make the AFAR canvases segmented. Now AFAR is not one large canvas of many active-emitting elements. But rather a grid of many small AFARs (let’s say 15-15 cm squares or hexagons) that are assembled into one interferometer antenna on the desired side of the superstructure. The distance between each cell of a small AFAR can be 1-2 cm. It is no longer necessary, then the overall size of the canvas will be too huge. The outputs of the power supply and signal reception channels for each such cell go into an individual cable. The cables of each cell in different ways and at different depths, with redundancy, transmit data to a single center. The cables themselves, in addition to natural protection (in the form of a dense and strong braid), can also be separated into separate protective channels (channels in the form of a pipe, reinforced from fragments, inside which cables from 3-4 cells can pass. The pipes themselves can be two cylinders of different diameters so that one fits into the other with a space of 1-2 cm between them. A large diameter pipe can be made of durable alloys of steel, aluminum or even plastic. The inner pipe is made of light but durable carbon fabric. And the space between them can be filled with a light foam-like non-flammable substance to catch fragments and dampen vibrations).
          + inside the setup you can make 1-2 internal partitions to reduce the chance of large fragments flying through, which can damage both the canvas on the other side of the superstructure and the internal cables of other antennas. Such a superstructure will of course be heavier than the current ones. But this can be compensated for by the return of an armored belt and a double mine-resistant armored bottom.

          Again, an armored belt designed to counter light anti-ship missiles, air defense missiles (most likely in the near future everyone will start trying to use air defense missiles as light anti-ship missiles) and also their fragments or destroyed hulls (when a missile seems to have been hit by air defense means, but it flies by inertia, a burning piece large enough to break the body and scatter the burning fuel inside with the potential detonation of the remaining explosive). We don’t need any battleship armor belt here.

          Also, to increase the reliability of the air defense system. I would think about such a thing as creating an additional detection-targeting channel. Namely, the optical channel. Let there be optical observation stations in the superstructure (or even on other elements of the ship’s hull), which can additionally monitor the environment in the optical/infrared/ultraviolet range (it is better to conduct research to understand which channel is better).
          Such a channel cannot be drowned out by radio interference, and approaching aircraft/missiles/UAVs will be able to be detected, albeit when they are no longer over the horizon, but far enough away for the air defense to have time to work on them. They can also be used by the ship’s computer to monitor the results of hits on air targets and give instructions on the need or lack of need to launch another missile at the target.
    2. 0
      12 October 2023 10: 33
      It's certainly not bad

      still, it would be better to integrate MRLS 50N6E from S-350 to 32 channels into the Redut air defense system
      and the Poliment radar only has 4 per 1 phased array panels
      as an option,
      maybe they will put it on a promising destroyer with a large ammunition load of anti-aircraft missiles
      1. 0
        13 October 2023 00: 59
        The polyment has a number of tracked targets - 200 (which is much more than 32 for the 50N6E. By the way, where does that come from when, according to the documents, the number of tracked targets is only 8)?
        And the number 4 in the characteristics of Poliment is the number of targets fired at, each of which can be aimed at 2 missiles at once, i.e. only 8 radio correction channels per canvas (yes, the 50N6E rules here - it creates up to 16 radio correction channels)
    3. +3
      12 October 2023 12: 11
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      It’s certainly not bad, but how will target designation be given over the horizon and what kind of warhead is this?

      This is a short-range missile defense system (up to 15 km). Radio horizon :~17,5 km
      The author is very confused. (Ryabov)
      9M100 from birth could hit NK (Years (development-testing, in service) 1995-(03-19)/19)

      IN with RK + IR GOS
      Target designation for 9M100 and 9M96*** is provided by the three-dimensional shipborne detection and target designation radar "Furke"
      (up to 1,4* 17,5 km or a little more)
      This is the same radar 1RS1-1E (1RL123-E) as that of the shell

      About the use of 9M96*** against surface targets - it seems stupid
      1. +1
        17 October 2023 00: 10
        Quote from Digger
        The author is very confused. (Ryabov)
        recourse yes .... don’t take away the keyboard from Ryabov ... request
    4. -3
      12 October 2023 12: 38
      ZGRLS Monolit, Mineral, Positive, Monument are generally responsible for target designation beyond the horizon
      on frigates pr.22350, MRK pr.22800, MRK. Ave. 21631
      as well as MF RLC "Zaslon"
      on corvettes pr. 20385
      1. +1
        12 October 2023 18: 20
        Quote: Romario_Argo
        ZGRLS Monolit, Mineral, Positive, Monument are generally responsible for target designation beyond the horizon

        belay
        Over-the-horizon ones? How did they get on the ships?
        Over-the-horizon radars use the effect of reflection of short radio waves (from 3 to 30 MHz; decameter waves) from the ionosphere
        overrefraction?
        driven tropospheric waveguide?
        (this will be 2 bast shoes or 3 from the ltsuna)
        1. +4
          12 October 2023 20: 02
          Quote from Digger
          Over-the-horizon ones? How did they get on the ships?

          Well, oddly enough, they got in :))))
          But, of course, they do not always work, and with great limitations. And they cannot determine “friend/foe” affiliation. But in some cases they may well give a control center for 250 kilometers
          1. -3
            12 October 2023 20: 32
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            But in some cases they may well give a control center for 250 kilometers

            I am tormented by vague doubts.
            1. 0
              13 October 2023 01: 15
              They are tormenting in vain. Over-the-horizon radar was theorized back in the 70s, and it works quite well. Another thing is that a ship’s radar records only the fact of the presence of a target and the direction towards it without other details (such as range and especially classification). Huge gratings are not required for this; a 3-meter ruler will do the job.
              This should not be confused with over-the-horizon early warning systems (with huge arrays like at Chernobyl or multi-meter phased array walls), whose task is to see hundreds of metals a couple of hundred kilometers away, and a modest torch of a ballistic missile engine a dozen thousand kilometers away.
            2. +1
              13 October 2023 19: 20
              Quote from Digger
              I am tormented by vague doubts.

              It would have been better if they tormented you when you wrote about the possibility of firing missiles with an AGSN without an external control center over the horizon.
          2. -1
            13 October 2023 03: 42
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            But, of course, they do not always work, and with great limitations. And they cannot determine “friend/foe” affiliation. But in some cases they may well give a control center for 250 kilometers

            In passive mode, based on the characteristic radiation, radars can, in a number of cases.
            1. 0
              13 October 2023 19: 20
              Quote: Vladimir_2U
              In passive mode, based on the characteristic radiation, radars can, in a number of cases.

              No. We are not talking about passive, but rather active detection mode
              1. -1
                15 October 2023 17: 18
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                No. We are not talking about passive, but rather active detection mode

                Even in active mode, it is difficult to determine “friend/foe”
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                And they cannot determine “friend/foe” affiliation.

                I about it.
          3. -1
            13 October 2023 09: 57
            Hello Andrey,
            You give figures of 250 km and 450 km - but these are export cut-down modifications of Monolit-B, for the same Iran, Vietnam and Venezuela
            on the website of JSC Typhoon, figures of 750 km are traced for the passive mode
            their entire line of ZGRLS have approximately the same performance characteristics and the differences in range are not significant
            so Positive is not much different from Monolith or Mineral
            but, ZGRLS Positive already has an all-round overview and not sectoral and state identification, friend or foe, etc.
            https://typhoon-jsc.ru/index.php/production-and-services/special-purpose/pozitiv-me12
            1. 0
              13 October 2023 21: 54
              Quote: Romario_Argo
              on the website of JSC Typhoon, figures of 750 km are traced for the passive mode

              Passive mode has nothing to do with ZGRLS. This is RTR
              Quote: Romario_Argo
              but, ZGRLS Positive already has an all-round overview and not sectoral and state identification, friend or foe, etc.

              only here is the link - never ZGRLS :))
              Key Features:
              target detection and tracking range - up to 150 km.
              detection range of a fighter type target is up to 50 km.
        2. 0
          13 October 2023 09: 54
          yeah good
          just for visibility they installed ZGRLS Monolit-T
          even on missile boats of project 1241 Molniya, MRK pr. 1234 Ovod
          and even issue target designations for anti-ship missiles
          for example, a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier is escorted at a range of about 1500 km
          1. +1
            13 October 2023 19: 22
            Quote: Romario_Argo
            for example, a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier is escorted at a range of about 1500 km

            Yes, write 15 km at once, what a waste of time
      2. -1
        13 October 2023 03: 44
        Quote: Romario_Argo
        ZGRLS Monolit, Mineral, Positive, Monument are generally responsible for target designation beyond the horizon
        on frigates pr.22350, MRK pr.22800, MRK. Ave. 21631

        They are not linked to the air defense system, and Zaslon is no longer linked to over-the-horizon detection.
        1. +1
          13 October 2023 13: 19
          In general, the BIUS on pr. 22350 and 20385 BIUS Sigma is responsible for pairing
          this is the same as the Polyana automated control system issues target designations to third-party S-400 or military S-300V4 and Pantsir air defense systems or again to the military Tor-M2, and from a generally third-party radar, for example Nebo-M, Protivnik, Gamma (64L6)
          it is also possible to issue control information from the Polyana automated control system through the interspecific Fundament-2 automated control system
          by the way
          the fact that the Poliment radar produces only 4 channels of control center with 1 phased array, then the BIUS, also known as the automated control system, can issue up to 225 control center from third-party detection tools
          1. -1
            13 October 2023 16: 57
            Quote: Romario_Argo
            In general, the BIUS on pr. 22350 and 20385 BIUS Sigma is responsible for pairing

            Pairing what with what? Various types of anti-aircraft weapons? May be. However, shipborne Monoliths and Minerals do not provide an over-the-horizon control center for air defense missile systems, if only because of low accuracy, sufficient for the seeker of anti-ship missiles, but not for the seeker of missile defense systems. And yet, Positives do not have the ability to detect targets over the horizon, not in active mode for sure.
  2. +1
    12 October 2023 04: 05
    This is all good, but what to do with underwater drones, and this is the next step.
    1. -1
      12 October 2023 12: 43
      PTZ - anti-torpedo protection
      passive - 3 compartments below the waterline along the entire side with a total width of 3,5 meters
      active surface: Package-NK torpedoes in 324 mm and 220 mm caliber
      active underwater: underwater drones illuminating the underwater situation Galtel
      and the destroyers of Chilim
  3. +4
    12 October 2023 04: 48
    Author, you are wrong.
    Only frigates 22350 are equipped with a full-fledged Poliment-Redut air defense system. They can be seen in all photos of frigates - 4 phased array antennas.
    That is, "Polyment" is a radar station. Which is not present on corvettes 20380 and 20385.
    It is still not clear what the missiles on these corvettes are guided by.
    1. +2
      12 October 2023 11: 13
      Quite right, Kirill Ryabov let loose the rooster again. Corvettes 20380 and 20385 are armed with Redoubts and the Zaslon multifunctional radar station. "Polyment Redoubt" is installed only on frigates 22350.
    2. 0
      13 October 2023 01: 16
      They are aiming. Separate antenna posts (4 channels per post, 1 post per board)
      A plaque with a radio-transparent cover on the third bracket is it.
      1. -1
        13 October 2023 07: 16
        Quote: ailcat
        They are aiming. Separate antenna posts (4 channels per post, 1 post per board)
        A plaque with a radio-transparent cover on the third bracket is it.

        This, as they wrote above, is “Barrier”, not “Polyment”.
        “Screening” is a problematic thing, and there was a lot of talk about it here on the forum. Klimov.
        https://topwar.ru/178644-gremjaschij-i-drugie-poluchit-li-nash-flot-jeffektivnye-korabli-blizhnej-zony.html
  4. +1
    12 October 2023 04: 50
    From project to service...Extended capabilities...Technical potential...Dual purpose...Versatility and flexibility...

    9М100 rocket


    Will these modifications provide a guarantee that incomprehensible cases that will cause excruciating pain will not occur?
  5. Eug
    -1
    12 October 2023 05: 59
    I was confused by the number of simultaneously tracked targets - 16 (4 antennas for 4 targets). Somehow it’s not enough even for a ship whose purpose is not air defense. And the weight of the warhead is 24 kg. 152mm. the shell weighs twice as much at a much lower price, is it worth building a garden for this? And for some reason not a word about range...
    1. +1
      12 October 2023 10: 46
      Quote: Eug
      I was confused by the number of simultaneously tracked targets - 16 (4 antennas for 4 targets)

      The only S-300 antenna control post on the Project 1164 Atlant cruisers was able to aim at 3 targets simultaneously. True, it was spinning, but there was shading on the bow due to the superstructure.
      The American RKR Ticonderoga can simultaneously fire at 4 targets, Burke - 3 (based on the number of target illumination radars). True, now they have received SM-6 which can fire at up to 20 targets simultaneously... it seems.
      1. +3
        12 October 2023 11: 13
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        The only S-300 antenna control post on the Project 1164 Atlant cruisers was able to aim at 3 targets simultaneously. True, it was spinning, but there was shading on the bow due to the superstructure.

        There was another problem - the radar could simultaneously view only a 90-degree working sector, driving it by mechanical rotation across the full viewing sector. That is, when attacked from two sides, the “Fort” could cover only one direction.
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        The American RKR Ticonderoga can simultaneously fire at 4 targets, Burke - 3 (based on the number of target illumination radars).

        EMNIP, the Yankees had one subtle point - in one of their modifications they switched from constant illumination (AN/SPG-62 illuminated one target all the time from the launch of the missile defense system to the hit/miss) to illumination only on the final part of the missile defense trajectory. So 3-4 targets were fired at the same time, but there were more missiles in the air (in fact, they “stood in line”).
        1. 0
          12 October 2023 13: 49
          Quote: Alexey RA
          There was another bug

          Undeniably
          Quote: Alexey RA
          EMNIP, the Yankees had one subtle point - in one of their modifications they switched from constant illumination (AN/SPG-62 illuminated one target all the time from the launch of the missile defense system to the hit/miss) to illumination only on the final part of the missile defense trajectory.

          Yes. But it was like this - if earlier the post had to constantly highlight the target, then later - only on the final part of the trajectory. This is true. But the fact that it was possible to put missiles “in a queue”... I don’t have reliable data. That is, it is quite possible that this possibility is a fantasy of Internet experts, based on the fact that backlighting is needed only in the final section.
          To make assumptions, you need to understand how quickly you can move the backlight from one target to another. But is this possible in reality... If we take the passport performance characteristics, then one SeaWolf should have calmly shot down 4-5 Skyhawks attacking with free-falling bombs (half of them after the attack). Well, in reality...
          And one more thing - accompanying our missiles with the SLA radar throughout the flight provided a much better level of protection from electronic countermeasures
      2. 0
        12 October 2023 19: 04
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        The only S-300 antenna control post on Project 1164 cruisers

        -C-300F (This is somewhat different)
        - there were 3 antenna posts tied to the “fort” (7,9,11), and there are 11 in total

        "tit" or 3Р41 "Wave" is an on-load tap-changer
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Atlas was able to target 3 targets simultaneously.

        What do you want?
        S-300F, this is a confused S-300P.
        RPN 30N6 up to 6, Tits somewhat castrated: 3
        3 targets, 2 missiles each.
        ZR41 “Volna”, capable of simultaneously aiming 2 missiles at each of THREE targets located in its field of view, in time-sharing mode.
        And on the Petra Velikokom (Fort-FM), one 4R48 forms six guidance channels: in total, the 4R48 is capable of simultaneously guiding up to 12 missiles at 6 air targets, and the aft 3R41 “Volna” 6 missiles at 3 targets.
        The American "Aegis" carefully ensures that the number of missiles on the final part of the trajectory does not exceed THREE units, otherwise the tracking will be reset. Since: there are only 3 AN/SPG-62 target illumination radars (the heading angles are covered by one, the aft ones - two, the side, each, but not at the same time - all three)
        What do you want? SAM guidance method: radio command, radio command - semi-active radar seeker through a missile.
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        True, he was spinning, but in the nose because of the superstructure

        60 degrees, then turn the ship's hull
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        The American RKR Ticonderoga can simultaneously fire at 4 targets

        The stump is clear... he has 4 AN/SPG-62 pieces

        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        True, now they have received SM-6

        ARGSN Yes from AIM-120C AMRAAM. SN: command-inertial + homing ARGSN in the final section. It can also hit across the horizon.
        Adapt the 3P41 fire control system and give it a missile defense system with ARGSN and 1164 will be able to.
        Only not 20 can be fired from SM-6
        1. 0
          12 October 2023 20: 05
          Quote from Digger
          - there were 3 antenna posts tied to the “fort” (7,9,11), and there are 11 in total

          Well, is it really unclear what was said about the S-300F fire control system?
          Quote from Digger
          ARGSN yes from AIM-120C AMRAAM. SN: command-inertial + homing ARGSN in the final section. It can also hit across the horizon.

          If someone gives the control center. But the conversation is precisely about the possibility of the ship.
          1. -2
            12 October 2023 20: 47
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Well, is it really unclear what was said about the S-300F fire control system?

            It's clear. FCS S-300F, common people FCS 3R41, DOES NOT WORK without the Voskhod radar Radar MR-800 Flag and without the Fregat-M radar of the same Flag
            Siska, aka 3P41 “Volna” - this is an on-load tap-changer
            The air defense missile system control circuit includes:
            - detection radar (radar "Voskhod", "Flag") - its name is RLO
            - combat control point (MSO 3Р41)
            -radar for illumination and guidance of air defense missile systems (3P41 “Volna” - then,what do you consider "the only antenna post of the S-300F)
            - target
            The radar detects targets in the viewing area. When reflected signals appear at the input of the radar receiving device, the target coordinates are automatically determined in each review period. The received coordinates are sent to the combat control point (CCP), where targets are automatically captured for tracking and their trajectories are calculated.
            Based on the results of calculating trajectories, targets are automatically distributed between launchers ready for combat. When the goals reach a given milestone, a control certificate is issued. Target designation in the air defense system is carried out automatically. In this case, the on-load tap-changer turns towards the target in azimuth and provides an overview of the space in angular coordinates, range and speed within the additional search sector. When a target is detected in the additional search sector, it is captured for tracking. After this, the next target designation can be practiced. After target acquisition for tracking by illumination and guidance radar, the control system receives accurate information about its coordinates. This information is identified with data on this target received from the radar.

            etc.

            The guidance circuit provides missile flight control during
            their guidance.
            The guidance circuit includes:
            - on-load tap-changer (that is,what do you consider "the only antenna post of the S-300F)
            - target;
            -rocket;
            - lines for radio-visualization of targets and missiles and radio-television control lines.
            -----------------------------------------
            Without radar, you won’t hit anything with just your boobs.
            -> 3 antenna posts
            This is S-300P
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            If someone gives the control center. But the conversation is precisely about the possibility of the ship.

            -they have no problem with it
            - these are the capabilities of the missile defense system (since it is with ARGSN, a different guidance method), and not the ship. She (SN-6) does not need AN/SPG-62 on-load tap-changers, she is not tied to their number and location on the ship
            1. 0
              12 October 2023 21: 11
              Quote from Digger
              Diger

              Opus?
              1. 0
                13 October 2023 09: 54
                There is a certain similarity in the style of comments
            2. 0
              12 October 2023 22: 32
              Quote from Digger
              It's clear. OMS S-300F, common people OMS 3P41, DOES NOT WORK without Voskhod radar Radar MR-800

              Excuse me, aren't you tired of uttering banalities? Or do you think that you are opening my eyes? :)))))
              Quote from Digger
              -radar for illumination and guidance of the air defense system (3P41 “Volna” - what you consider to be the only antenna post of the S-300F)

              The only antenna post OMS And the detection radar is not included in the control system, although, of course, it is necessary for the normal operation of the complex. Before you smartly tell common truths, first study these truths yourself. The SLA radar is, for example, MR-145, or MR-123, although they also work in conjunction with a general surveillance radar.
              Quote from Digger
              -they have no problem with it
              - these are the capabilities of the missile defense system (since it is with ARGSN, a different guidance method), and not the ship.

              Again. The SHIP'S CAPABILITIES for controlling anti-aircraft weapons are discussed. The fact that the US Navy has AWACS aircraft does not make them ships. This time. Secondly, there are problems with this, since the classic use of AWACS aircraft excludes the targeting of missiles with AGSN. Simply put, he is a little far from the order. Third - SAMs with AGSN cannot be used beyond the radio horizon without the involvement of a third-party control center. Neither the ship nor the missile defense system provide such capabilities.
              1. -1
                13 October 2023 11: 56
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

                Excuse me, aren't you tired of uttering banalities?

                I won’t do it again, sorry for disturbing you. "It's not a hat for Senya...yes"
                1. 0
                  13 October 2023 19: 11
                  Quote from Digger
                  I won't do it anymore

                  Yeah, do me a favor.
                  Quote from Digger
                  "It's not a hat for Senya...yes"

                  Of course of course:)))))
        2. 0
          13 October 2023 00: 46
          Quote from Digger
          ARGSN from AIM-120C AMRAAM.

          The SM-6 uses only the transmitter from the AMRAAM seeker, everything else in the SM-6 seeker is its own. After installing the transmitter, this seeker can use both active homing and semi-active homing with illumination from the AN/SPG-62. There are no bad people out there who would refuse semi-active homing if everything for it is already there.
  6. +4
    12 October 2023 06: 20
    Strange beating of the drums, naval missiles since the times of "Volna" and "Storm" could be used as anti-ship missiles within radio visibility, but "Volna", excuse me, has a warhead of 60 kg, "Storm" has 90, and here 24 is not an achievement to blow the whistle, maybe a specialized missile is supposed to be placed in the Redoubt cells? Now let's look at the ship's ammunition compartment, but it is not large, from 12 to 32 missiles, so the commander faces a dilemma: what is better - to fire at the motorboat or to save a poor ammunition compartment to repel an air attack.
    1. 0
      12 October 2023 09: 02
      However, against the backdrop of the progress of maritime drones, the news looks quite relevant. And a warhead oriented towards “aircraft” strength against boats will be sufficient.
      1. +2
        12 October 2023 10: 19
        Quote: garri-lin
        Against the backdrop of the progress of maritime drones, the news looks quite relevant.

        What does a maritime drone have to do with it? If you spotted it, that is, RBU, main battery artillery (100/130), MZA, machine gun installations, and if you didn’t detect it, then the missile won’t help, it’s not about drones
        1. 0
          12 October 2023 11: 42
          When you are defending yourself, a machine gun may be enough. But when you are guarding a convoy of several “civilians”, then a couple of additional channels and a range to the horizon will come in handy. Or when you stand as the first barrier of the water area.
    2. 0
      12 October 2023 09: 08
      Well, the 24 kg warhead for the 9M96 was not chosen “by chance”! The weight of the warhead, the “modest” weight and size characteristics of the missile at a very decent range and altitude are related! If previously, only “circular” destruction was practiced and, at the same time, a powerful warhead was needed; now, directional warheads with “multipoint initiation” have appeared... a powerful warhead is no longer required to perform a number of tasks!
      1. 0
        12 October 2023 10: 21
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        a powerful warhead is no longer required to perform a number of tasks!

        Please indicate a number of tasks of a non-cheap missile defense system with a light warhead when working against sea and ground targets. Thanks in advance.
        1. +3
          12 October 2023 10: 47
          Quote: mark1
          Please indicate a number of tasks of a non-cheap missile defense system with a light warhead when working against sea and ground targets.

          Actually, this is exactly one task - shooting at a target, for which it is irrational to spend "Caliber". Something like Georgian boats in line of sight 08.08.08
          1. 0
            12 October 2023 11: 05
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Something like Georgian boats in line of sight 08.08.08

            1. Well, in principle... but why modify the missile defense system and they would have been hit anyway, that’s a private task.
            2. As far as I know, the Georgian boats were hit with everything that came to hand, from “Malachite” to “Osa” and NURs. Are they lying?
            1. +2
              12 October 2023 11: 19
              Quote: mark1
              1. Well, in principle... but why modify the missile defense system and they would have been hit anyway, that’s a private task.

              Not really. Firstly, hitting a target against the background of water (missile missiles usually cannot do this), this requires modification of the AGSN or the use of something like radio control - I’m not saying that this is correct, I’m just listing the options. Secondly, the possibility of converting the fuse into a contact action; for missile defense systems they are usually non-contact. Thirdly, it is possible to refine the warhead itself with some loss of efficiency in the air, but a significant increase in efficiency in the boat.
              Quote: mark1
              2. As far as I know, the Georgian boats were hit with everything that came to hand, from “Malachite” to “Osa” and NURs. Are they lying?

              Why do they lie? That's how it was. But whatever happens, they are modernizing Poliment-Redoubt
              By the way, firing missiles at NK is commonplace. For example, during Operation Praying Mantis, the Americans used 5 SM2 missiles and a “harpoon” at the Iranian missile boat, and the latter did not hit the target, since the boat, heavily battered by the missiles, had already sunk well.
              1. -2
                12 October 2023 21: 16
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Firstly, hitting a target against the background of water (missile defense systems usually cannot do this),

                high-speed without question. This is their task: intercepting low-flying high-speed targets.

                slow ones are more difficult (Doppler selection does not help). But
                - the helicopter helps with its rotor
                -surface ship with its HUGE EPR
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Secondly, the possibility of converting the fuse into a contact action; for missile defense systems they are usually non-contact.

                the radio fuse is “switched off”; the detonation occurs when the on-board power is lost, as if there was a miss - self-destruction.
                The warhead is unrealistic to modify. It will be trash
                The histograms of the density of the GGE fields will be violated: it can be thrown out like a zur.
                Main function: SAM, everything else is secondary.
                1. -1
                  13 October 2023 00: 52
                  Diger, as always, you are a mess. Picture from Luzana's article, and
                  Quote from Digger
                  detonation occurs when the on-board power is lost...

                  refers to the missile defense system for the S-200 air defense system.
                  1. 0
                    13 October 2023 11: 55
                    Quote: Comet
                    as always

                    I’m glad that I’m being closely watched “as always”
                    Quote: Comet
                    You have porridge.

                    it's better than "comets" in our heads
                    Quote: Comet
                    Picture from Luzana's article

                    And? what is the conclusion? Provide a picture from the Comet article, I’ll take a look.
                    Quote: Comet
                    refers to the missile defense system for the S-200 air defense system.

                    Yes Yes
                    after a miss, the missiles calmly continue their flight, then fall
                    and then 9N314 or 5Zh93 are lying around the fields and beds.
                    Go...well, it's to "Luzan" (I don't even know someone). Although you can keep watch
            2. +1
              12 October 2023 11: 46
              As a person who “observed” this action from the shore, I can say that they are not lying. A roar came from beyond the horizon several times. And each time a different tone.
        2. 0
          12 October 2023 17: 29
          You have strange wishes! My “number of tasks” related to air targets! As for my opinion on firing missiles at “sea and ground” targets, I think that this function should be secondary and “as a last resort”! As is known from the history of ship-based air defense systems, these anti-aircraft systems were brought into “working” condition much faster than anti-ship missile systems, and the ability to fire at the ship (as a last resort) came in handy!
    3. 0
      12 October 2023 11: 17
      Quote: mark1
      Strange beating of the drums, naval missiles since the days of "Volna" and "Storm" could be used as anti-ship missiles within radio visibility

      The requirement to work against naval targets was prescribed in the technical specifications for all ship-based air defense systems - right up to the Osa. Because the stock of anti-ship missiles was small, and some of the ships did not have them at all.
      1. -1
        12 October 2023 20: 35
        Not only ship ones. Conventional air defense systems can also hit ground targets.
    4. -2
      12 October 2023 20: 37
      In general, for quite a long time all our missile defense systems, when a warhead is blown up, also blow up the engine. So 24 kg is already at its end, and a hundred or two kilos of rocket will arrive at a trough 20 km away
  7. +2
    12 October 2023 09: 32
    Well... they mentioned the 9M100 missile defense system and... my moral suffering began again! Well, why, given the declared presence of an infrared (matrix!) seeker, is not visible in the “nose” of the “glass” missile?! [And this is often a characteristic feature of infrared (matrix), television and laser seekers! ]
    1. 0
      13 October 2023 00: 31
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Well... they mentioned the 9M100 missile defense system and... my moral suffering began again! Well, why, given the declared presence of an infrared (matrix!) seeker, is not visible in the “nose” of the “glass” missile?!

      The 9M100 missile defense system has an active radar seeker.
    2. -1
      13 October 2023 00: 48
      Someone once wrote about the IR GOS in the manufacturer’s plans, but most likely they decided not to make one complex with ARLGSN and RK-IK. In addition, the IR seeker will not capture a glide bomb; it is also not very reliable with an anti-radar or cruise missile. It’s unlikely that anyone expected a helicopter or plane to fly to the ship within 10 km
  8. 0
    12 October 2023 09: 36
    Our vaunted Sarmatian, as far as we know, only made one test launch, and was already installed on the database. Does anyone remember how much Bulava needed?
  9. 0
    12 October 2023 10: 47
    In fact, missile defense systems have been used as anti-ship missiles for a long time. Within radio visibility, it has noticeable advantages - short preparation time for launch, high speed, resistance to electronic warfare (the main means of countering anti-ship missiles), since it is guided by a relatively powerful shipborne radar, and not by a low-power anti-ship missile seeker radar.
    (but you need to pay attention that the radar that guides the missile defense system must have the ability to work on the water surface, and this is not always the case).
    The disadvantage is the small warhead of the missile defense system (moreover, it is not semi-armor-piercing, like the anti-ship missile). The disadvantage is compensated by the fact that missiles are fired either at small boats or with the aim of disabling the enemy’s weapon controls and then finishing them off with conventional anti-ship missiles.
    But in this case, questions arise. Is a 24 kg warhead enough to disable radar and other electronic controls of enemy weapons? Especially considering that they can be spread along the length of the ship (which is more than 100 meters). If you use several missiles for this, will there be enough ammunition?
    What specific missiles are planned to be used and in what mode? If in homing mode only, will the seeker be able to cope with the powerful electronic warfare equipment of an enemy ship? They will be more powerful than those on airplanes.
  10. +2
    12 October 2023 10: 58
    Thus, in June 2014, it became known that the Poliment-Redut of the Soobrazitelny ship for the first time attacked a surface target simulating an enemy ship with an anti-aircraft missile.

    Is there "Poliment-Redut" on series 20380? There, EMNIP, pure "Redoubt" (well, like pure... with "Puma"). That is why corvettes successfully fired missiles years before the frigate Poliment-Redut was commissioned.
  11. +2
    12 October 2023 12: 46
    He had these opportunities from the very beginning. Any shipborne air defense system can hit surface targets; this has been a standard since the very first systems, which were developed back in the 50s.
    Have VO run out of topics?
  12. 0
    12 October 2023 14: 50
    Any air defense system that is guided by a radar or laser beam can do this.
    Georgian boats on 08.08.08 were also sunk by air defense missiles.
  13. +2
    12 October 2023 15: 17
    By the end of the XNUMXs, “Redut” at Soobrazitelny passed preliminary tests

    I didn’t know that the XNUMXs were already ending. Long live the third millennium...
  14. 0
    12 October 2023 17: 38
    Corvettes Project 20380/20385/20386 and frigates Project 22350 use the Uran missile system as the main strike weapon to combat enemy ships.

    Corvettes pr.20385 and frigates pr.22350 DO NOT use the Uran missile system due to its complete absence on board. Let the moderators deal with errors or misinformation. negative
  15. +1
    13 October 2023 00: 38
    The ARGSN SAM 9M96 additionally implemented a sounding signal that ensures the destruction of surface targets. That's all the news. It was turned into an entire article, which gave rise to discussions completely off topic.
  16. 0
    13 October 2023 00: 52
    Kirill Ryabov.

    Project 20380 does not include a polyment-redoubt air defense missile system. Like 20385.

    Polyment redoubt is only at 22350.
  17. +1
    13 October 2023 12: 01
    A lot of beautiful words.. But.... Polyment is like a radar for a ship, forgive me, but it’s outdated. (After all, the radar was developed in the late eighties and early nineties) And here's why. The first and most important thing is the low throughput - only 4 targets for tracking.. (Compare with the 2000 targets of the Samson radar on the British Daring) This is currently not enough even for a short-range air defense radar. (What is still somehow acceptable for the “Pantsir” (And even then is not enough in the light of the experience of the SVO) is not very suitable for working with medium and long-range missiles.) “Polyment” is also somehow suitable for small corvettes of the same type "karakurt" ... (What is called "For Poverty") But for modern large corvettes like the same 20385, it is advisable to look for something better .. At least the Bars radar, which is now installed on the Su-35 ... Naturally in the sea adaptation...
    1. 0
      14 October 2023 20: 06
      Quote: tchoni
      The first and most important thing is the low throughput - only 4 targets for tracking.. (Compare with 2000 targets for the Samson radar located on the British Daring)

      Evgeniy, you compared the incomparable. 4 targets under fire, and for Daring - escort
  18. 0
    16 October 2023 20: 54
    The editors urgently need a text proofreader. Well, how to read, “will be able to get the opportunity.” And it's in the hat!
  19. 0
    20 December 2023 13: 44
    The Poliment-Redut air defense system will receive an anti-ship function

    For what? He would have time to deal with air targets. sad