Features of approaches to ship construction

47
2
Launching of HMS Cambridge


How long can a sailing ship last? The question is not an idle one, because, for example, on our God-saved 1/6 of the land, the ordinary reader is sure that “in England the ship served for 50 years, in Russia - 5 years“, and therefore global conclusions were made that Russia is not a maritime power, it does not need a fleet, it is even contraindicated, and in general, as Captain Blood said to Captain Lavasseur:



“You know what, Levasseur? Settle down on the shore, find yourself some kind farmer, run a farm... The sea is not for you!”

Where did this look come from? From uncritical reading of English sources the fleet. However, first things first.

Fleet and Parliament


And to start with the basics, we will have to travel back to the XNUMXth century, to the time of the “Merry King” Charles II Stuart. At that time, England was fighting for supremacy at sea with Holland, and life itself forced the islanders to somehow streamline their maritime policy.

Since the time of the father of the current monarch, Charles I, Parliament has arrogated to itself the prerogative of approving the construction of new ships (or refusing this undertaking). Since Charles I had a constant conflict with Parliament, and still wanted a fleet, he even went to direct violation of this rule by introducing a well-forgotten old tax - “ship money”, which went directly to the royal treasury, bypassing the treasury of Parliament. The House of Commons appealed to the Magna Carta, according to which any tax imposed without the consent of Parliament is illegal. It is clear that Parliament declared Karl’s initiative illegal, and all contractors began to refuse the tax one after another. As a result, by the 1640s, a revolutionary situation had developed in the kingdom, and then the English Revolution began.

In 1660, Charles II came to power, but the problem of building a fleet remained. For example, in 1677, during a debate in Parliament regarding the building program "thirty ships“The Admiralty came out with a request to allocate 1,6 million pounds for the fleet, to which parliamentarians simply stood on their hind legs. As one of the deputies said:

“1 million 600 thousand for 30 ships - that means 53 pounds per ship. Will they be made entirely of gold and silver?”

1
Samuel Pepys

Admirals and members of the Fleet Council were simply infuriated by the constant discussion in Parliament of issues of financing the fleet. In addition, Secretary of the Admiralty Samuel Pepys insisted that some kind of systematization was needed in the construction of the fleet. For example, if we have 100 ships, and each ship serves for 10 years, then it is clear that we need to lay down 10 ships every year in order to maintain the number of ships at the proper level.

With the same level of administration that existed in the 1660s and 1670s, the fleet was either showered with golden rain or choked by financial drought.

And in 1686 Pepys found a way out. According to Bryant's book "Samuel Pepys: Savior of the Fleet", Pepys found an ingenious legal solution - now the rebuilding and timbering of ships was carried out as a permanent expense for the Admiralty, while the construction of new ships was necessarily approved by Parliament. That is, Parliament allocates money for repairs without discussion or debate.

Since coordination with Parliament was a long and tedious matter, in 1686 the number of ships was fixed, within which it was possible to carry out light and major repairs, and this number was fixed at around 100 ships.

According to Davis's book Pepys's Fleet: Ships, Men and Battles, 1649-1689, in 1688 Pepys took advantage of the innovation to "to repair“(in fact, build anew) 69 Royal Nevi ships, which puzzled parliamentarians a little - they say, did we resolve everything correctly? And as a result, the following agreement was reached - the timber hulls of the ships were divided into upper (repair) and deep (rebuild). There were restrictions on the number of the latter per year.

What is timber?


What was meant in the English fleet (not always, but quite often) by deep timbering (rebuild)? Let’s say that the conventional battleship “Monсk” has fallen into disrepair, and in theory it should be scrapped and a new ship built. But! The construction of a new ship, as we remember, is coordinated with Parliament, which we absolutely do not want to do. As a result, the “Monсk” is brought into some Sheerness for disassembly, the damaged parts are thrown out, the good ones are stored, and at this time in the conditional Chatham, an actually new ship is being built, where parts of the old ship are used (and sometimes not used), but the ship is still it is also called “Monсk”, and its service is continuous.

Do you think this is a joke? Absolutely not. For example, the already mentioned 52-gun “Monck” built in 1659 in 1677 was timbered, as a result of which its length was increased from 32 to 42 meters along the keel, its width from 10 to 11 meters, and it itself became 60-gun.

In 1702, another deep restructuring was carried out, and the ship was scrapped only in 1720. That is, we see that as a result of the repair a completely new ship appeared, but anyone who reads the sources uncritically will tell us that HMS Monck served for 50 years, although these 50 years actually fell on three different ships.

3
Chatham Dockyard in the XNUMXth century

Nevertheless, Pepys's innovation was a giant leap forward - now the size of the Royal Navy's ship's personnel was legally fixed, and it was possible to form a permanent maritime budget.

Real life times


So how long did English ships actually serve?

The Correspondence of the Honorable John Sinclair (1842), page 242, gives the following data on the service life of oak in shipbuilding:

American oak – 10 years.
Russian Kazan oak – 10 years.
French oak – 15 years.
Polish oak – 15 years.
German oak – 15 years.
Danish oak – 20 years.
Swedish oak – 20 years.
English oak – 25 years.
The best English oak is 40-50 years old.

And here is the Westminster Review, volume 6 for 1826. There, on pages 129 and 130, is a report by the British and Colonial Forestry Commissioners, according to which the average life expectancy of ships built for the Royal Navy from 1760 to 1788 was 11 years and 9 months.

There, just below, is a report for Parliament made by the Third Lord of the Admiralty, Robert Sappings, according to which the service life of a ship, depending on the wood, ranges from 3 to 9 years.

Comparison of ships built from colonial wood with ships built from Baltic wood (by this we mean, first of all, Polish and German oak; on the colonial side, here is Canadian oak and Canadian pine):

Colonial wood:
HMS Cydnus – 3 years 2 months.
HMS Eurotas – 3 years 8 months.
HMS Nigeria - 3 years.
HMS Meander - 3 years 4 months.
HMS Pactolus – 3 years 11 months.
HMS Tiber – 4 years 10 months.
HMS Araxes - 2 years 8 months.
Average service life – 3 years 6 months.

Baltic wood:
HMS Maidestone - 8 years 11 months.
HMS Clyde - 8 years 6 months.
HMS Circle – 8 years 11 months.
HMS Hebe – 6 years 6 months.
HMS Jason - 9 years 11 months.
HMS Minevra - 8 years 6 months.
HMS Alexandria - 7 years 10 months.
Average service life is 8 years 3 months.

4
HMS St Albans launched

In the same note, Seppings, commenting on his data, proposes that in order to adjust timber reserves from Canada, we should approximately accept the data that the service life of a ship made of Canadian wood is equal to half the service life of a ship made of Baltic wood.

In the 1830s, the service life of oak ships increased to 13 years.

Some conclusions


First of all, let's note that no oak ship, even the best one, can withstand 50 years without repairs. The whole question is the price and labor intensity of this repair. As an example, HMS Victory, Admiral Nelson's flagship at Trafalgar, was built in 1765 at a cost of £63. But the amount of its repairs amounted to 176 thousand pounds, that is, 215 times more than the cost of the ship itself.

Logic dictates that it would be much easier to break down a ship that has fallen into disrepair and build a new one. But... we remember about coordination with Parliament. Besides, there was another reason. In England, already in the XNUMXth century, the last oak forest was eliminated, and starting from the time of Charles II, the British were forced to import ship timber. In this situation, you have to be careful with what you already have, hence the constant repairs, timbering, rebuilding, etc. This at every stage made it possible to at least somehow save on the purchase of wood in third-party countries.

But is such a system an example to follow?

I’ll say a seditious thought - such a system was not needed anywhere except... England, with its parliamentary troubles.

In ordinary countries, these legal tricks would not make sense; everything would be determined by the availability of money and the need for a fleet at a particular moment. Let us take as an example a country that was not particularly good at building a fleet - the early USA. As soon as the war - Congress allocates money for the construction of the fleet, while the fleet is being built - the war is over, and unfinished ships can stand, gradually rot and collapse on the stocks for decades.

5
USS New Orleans, construction of which began in 1814. Photo from 1883

Here's another example. Throughout the 25th century, Denmark pursued a consistent maritime policy and was always concerned about having 28-XNUMX battleships at hand; They introduced both an accounting system and timely replenishment of the number of personnel by the king himself, without any tricks. The cost of repairs and the cost of building a new ship were honestly considered, and what was more profitable was simply done. Without any legal hassles.

And what about Russia?


You and I remember that the original question contained the phrase “the ship served in England for 50 years, and in Russia for 5 years" What is the real service life of Russian ships?

If we take, for example, the array of Russian 50-gun ships built between 1712 and 1720, then on average each ship served for 8 years and 2 months. Yes, in the statistics there is the 50-gun Vyborg, which served for only 3 years (it crashed), but there are also the ships Riga and Rafail, which honestly served for 11 years.

If we take the Russian 80- and 90-gun Peter - then even if we take the service of the ship "Lesnoye" for one year (built in 1718, had an accident in 1719, was repaired by 1720), then the average service life of the Russians “heavyweights” will be 13 years and 4 months versus 17 years and 11 months before the first deep timber season for the British. If the Lesnoye accident is not taken into account, then the time frame will be quite comparable.

Another question is that Peter I did not need those very timber allowances as a fact, since Russia was a rude, non-parliamentary country, the tsar himself approved the spending. And he himself monitored the size of the fleet.

It is clear that all these comparisons are a little manipulative. For example, English ships sailed much more, and in different latitudes, in different seas and oceans. On the other hand, Russian ships froze into ice every winter, which did not contribute to the life expectancy of the ship, as everyone understands.

Nevertheless, it can be argued that with different approaches and different uses, the parties arrived at approximately the same service life.

The main problem of the Russian fleet was a completely different problem. Construction from substandard or unseasoned wood affected the quality of the construction. No, there were quite enough such ships for the Baltic. Problems began when the Russian fleet entered the seas and oceans. Already in the Archipelagic expeditions, big problems arose with the condition of the ships, and this was just a transition from the Baltic to the Mediterranean Sea along the coast.

At the same time, for those same Spaniards, whom all lovers of sea adventures love to make fun of, ocean crossings were not heroism, but a standard task, an everyday occurrence. That is, in Spain they treated the quality of construction much more strictly than in Russia.

6
Replica of the 52-gun ship "Poltava" at the naval parade in St. Petersburg

This is how a Spanish commission agent assessed the Russian ships in 1818, after carefully examining them:

“The Russians build their ships from poorly treated Baltic wood such as pine or larch, but these types of wood are completely unsuitable for our warm waters. Russian ships are designed for cold waters and short voyages. They last significantly less than the oak ships built in Spain, England and France. In the Baltic, everything is at hand, close by, while it is considered common practice in the Spanish fleet for a ship to remain at sea for a long time, leaving its base for several years.”

In just a few sentences, the Spaniard quite clearly described the shortcomings of the “Russian approach” to the construction of ships. Yes, it's cheap. But it makes sense to build such ships when you are sailing close to the shore. Ocean voyages require a completely different quality of construction.

References:
1. JD Davies "Pepy's Navy: Ships, Men and Warfare 1649-89" - Seaforth Publishing; 1st Edition edition, 2008
2. A. Bryant “Samuel Pepys; The Savior of the Navy" - The Reprint Society Ltd; Reprint edition, 1953.
3. Robert Greenhalgh Albion “Forests and sea power; the timber problem of the Royal Navy, 1652-1862", 1926.
4. Sir John Sinclair. "The Correspondence of the Right Honorable Sir John Sinclair, Bart. With Reminiscences of the Most Distinguished Characters Who Have Appeared in Great Britain, and in Foreign Countries, During the Last Fifty Years" - London: H. Colburn & R. Bentley, 1831.
5. "The Westminster Review", t.7, oct. 1826-jan. 1827 - Baldwin, Cradock, and Joy, 1827.
6. Lyon D. “The Sailing Navy List: All the Ships of the Royal Navy-Built, Purchased and Captured-1688–1860 (Conway's History of Sail)” - Conway Maritime Press, 1998.
7. “Sea Collection”, 1896, No. 3.
8. V.G. Andrienko. “Sale of the Russian squadron to Spain in 1817–1818” // Gangut: Sat. Art. - St. Petersburg, 2006. - Issue. 39.
9. On the state of the Russian fleet in 1824: from a manuscript found in incomplete form in the papers of Vice Admiral V.M. Golovnin / op. Midshipman Morekhodov [pseud.]. - St. Petersburg: type. Mor. m-va, 1861.
10. Barcos rusos para Fernando VII // Singladuras por la historia naval: https://singladuras.jimdofree.com
47 comments
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  1. +4
    3 October 2023 04: 36
    Spaniards, whom all lovers of sea adventures love to make fun of

    Who wrote all these sea adventure books? If you think about it, the authors are English.
    1. +6
      3 October 2023 06: 13
      Quote: Chief Officer Lom
      Who wrote all these sea adventure books? If you think about it, the authors are English.

      Leave me alone, Assistant Lom! What about "The Adventures of Captain Vrungel"? Christopher Bonifatievich?! )))
      1. 0
        3 October 2023 08: 28
        "H.M.S. Eurotas – 3 years 8 months." - Eurotaz?
        "H.M.S. Niger – 3 years." - is BLM aware?
        lol lol
  2. +2
    3 October 2023 05: 23
    ...the misfortune of the Russian fleet was a completely different problem. Construction from substandard or unseasoned wood affected the quality of the construction. No, there were quite enough such ships for the Baltic. Problems began when the Russian fleet entered the seas and oceans. Already in the Archipelagic expeditions, big problems arose with the condition of the ships, and this was just a transition from the Baltic to the Mediterranean Sea along the coast.

    Most likely the “trouble” consisted of the presence of money in the treasury.
    And the “sticky fingers” of officials and dignitaries responsible for the construction and repair of ships, as well as the interests of various timber merchants.
    1. +3
      3 October 2023 06: 17
      The stickiness of the fingers in all countries was approximately the same, and we couldn’t even dream of how much the razors stuck to these fingers.
      1. +5
        3 October 2023 06: 38
        Repairing an old one is always more profitable than building a new one.
        For a repair organization...
  3. +2
    3 October 2023 06: 01
    as Captain Blood said to Captain Lavasseur:

    What other words could the ENGLISH writer R. Sabatini put into the mouth of his ENGLISH hero Captain Blood in a conversation with the FRENCH Lavasseur! Naturally, only about the superiority of the British in everything and over everyone.
    Carry this proud burden -
    Sons went
    To serve you subject
    To the peoples of the ends of the earth -
    To hard labor for the sullen
    Restless savages
    Half demons
    Half the people.
    (R. Kipling)
    1. 0
      3 October 2023 06: 22
      The British are so...
      Raised by a pack of giant monkeys, the boy, a descendant of British aristocrats, independently learned the language of his homeland using an ABC book and several children's books!
      Only British children can do this!
      And then the children grew up to be wonderful sea captains. Or shipbuilders.
    2. +5
      3 October 2023 12: 49
      Quote: Amateur
      into the mouth of his ENGLISH hero Captain Blood ENGLISH writer R. Sabatini in conversation with the FRENCH Lavasseur! Naturally, only about the superiority of the British in everything and over everyone.
      Blood was an Irishman; if one wanted to emphasize the superiority of the British, this nationality would hardly have been chosen lol
      1. +6
        3 October 2023 15: 03
        Quote: Stirbjorn
        Blood was Irish

        I completely agree. Moreover, Sabatini portrays the English in a very unattractive light - no, he portrays ordinary Englishmen as normal people, but someone taller... The same Lord Julian is not at all a role model.
    3. +3
      3 October 2023 15: 55
      Well, here's what a FRENCH writer writes:
      — If I were not French, I would like to be English
      “And if I were not an Englishman, I would only want to be an Englishman,” answered Hatteras, arrogant, like all Englishmen in general.
  4. +1
    3 October 2023 06: 58
    I would note that the service life and repairs of wooden ships coincide with the service life of modern metal ships. Water wears away any material. soldier
  5. Fat
    +12
    3 October 2023 07: 22
    I am sending one hundred rubles
    To build ships.
    How do you get it - give me an answer -
    Started to build, or not.

    Received one hundred rubles
    To build ships.
    Ninety-three rubles were loved and drunk.
    For the balance - seven rubles -
    You can't build ships.
    How do you get it - give me an answer -
    Should we continue to build or not?

    Listen to my royal decree:
    I am much ready for reprisal!
    So that before the winter cold
    I had a hundred ships.
    And you will make me sad -
    I'll chop off my head in an instant.
    Who drank there, who fell in love,
    I wish I had ships!!!!!!!!!!!

    Nothing to do, they took a knife.
    Scribbled a blueprint
    And they raised a fuss -
    Dust - not visible a mile away.
    Everyone is sweating, no one drinks.
    Look: so here it is - the Russian fleet!

    Thank you, Sergei.
  6. +10
    3 October 2023 07: 35
    Interesting analysis, thanks to the author.
    I will add that the speed of construction of Russian ships under Peter was caused by urgent tasks in the Northern War. Hence, among other things, the illegibility of materials.
    But, if in England in the XNUMXth century. - the fleet is the basis of national development and security, then in Russia after Peter - it is on the side. With periodic attempts, under military threats, to revive it or create it, as in the Black Sea.
    A completely different approach also influenced technology: there was a maritime power, here a land country with elements of a fleet.
    And so it was until the end of the 50s. XX century
    1. +5
      3 October 2023 08: 57
      War will not break out - the fleet will not be built!
      And when we reached the shores of the Pacific Ocean...
      No ports, no fleet...
      Emergency rush before the Russian-Japanese.
      Urals after the Russian-Japanese.
    2. +3
      3 October 2023 09: 55
      The main problem of the Russian fleet since the times of the Grand Dukes has been the absence of a class, stratum, or other social group that needed a fleet, namely a military fleet. Well, except for the state, of course. Peter 1 needed a fleet - he built it, his followers didn’t need it - it rotted. Let's remember the 2nd and 3rd Pacific Squadron and its adventures. Now, by the way, the picture is the same.
      Our icebreaker fleet is a positive example. We have more normal icebreakers than in the whole world, and we continue to build them. And who needs these nuclear (!!!) icebreakers, which are ridiculously expensive and expensive to maintain? That's right, we all know the answer.
  7. +6
    3 October 2023 07: 40
    They say they built it with damp wood. But if you think about it? Peter had no time to dry the forest, then until Catherine herself no one really approached the fleet with a long-range view, there was a fleet in the corral, there was no time for it, the new boyars shared power. And under my mother, they remembered the fleet in connection with the new Black Sea horizons, but again there was no time to dry the forest, it was necessary to put more pennants on the roadstead of Sevastopol and quickly. Then, too, the fleet was not so well cherished, although under Nicholas, systematic approaches appeared. After ? And then the Black Sea Fleet for firewood due to well-known odds and ends, and in general the era of iron steamships was looming. Please do not throw pissing rags at the amateur, you can just throw slippers, it’s not so offensive.
    1. +3
      3 October 2023 16: 54
      As far as I remember, the ship timber was not dried, but just soaked. And they soaked it for a long time, about several decades. Since before Peter there were no reserves of ship timber, they built from fresh, raw wood. After Peter, the fleet was no longer needed, why waste money on harvesting some kind of timber for some future ships. Here you are right, because under Catherine the Second we again started from scratch and from raw forest. We created a real supply of normal timber for the construction of ships around the time of Lazarev-Nakhimov.
      1. Fat
        +5
        3 October 2023 19: 24
        Quote: volodimer
        As far as I remember, the ship timber was not dried, but just soaked. And soaked for a long time

        Initially, oak for building a ship not only could not be kept in water, but it was also undesirable to wet it. The British generally transported oak harvested for ships on boats.
        By the mid-18th century, technology had changed somewhat. To avoid internal cracking, the trunks began to be kept in water for half a year, then freed from the bark and laid out for drying (for 10 years under normal conditions, however, “accelerated” drying methods were almost always used, there are quite a lot of them). True, when the trunks were soaked, tannin was removed from the wood, which largely ensured the oak's resistance to rot.
        And the wood for the spar, yes, was kept in salt water for a long time... Before drying smile
        The preparation of “construction” materials for the sailing fleet is a topic for a solid article... Or even a whole series.
        P.S. It is interesting that karbas built from coniferous forest (for example, Kholmogory) with proper care lasted 8-10 years fellow
        1. 0
          4 October 2023 18: 49
          Thank you hi , this is a really interesting topic. A Trudovik told us about soaking in salt water at school. But I didn’t know that this only concerned the spar. There is also a topic about the different strengths of oak trees. Amers praise theirs, which was used on the Constitution and looked at on Discovery. Danish oak, Swedish oak, Russian oak. It is possible that the difference in service life depended more on harvesting and storage before sale than on the quality of the wood itself. Again, larch should beat everyone in timing, not in strength.
  8. +5
    3 October 2023 07: 52
    Simply great article! It’s a pity that I can’t give many, many pluses to the author!
  9. +7
    3 October 2023 07: 56
    Since Charles I had a constant conflict with Parliament, and still wanted a fleet, he even went to direct violation of this rule by introducing a well-forgotten old tax - “ship money”, which went directly to the royal treasury, bypassing the treasury of Parliament. The House of Commons appealed to the Magna Carta, according to which any tax imposed without the consent of Parliament is illegal.

    “Ship money is one of the few taxes that English monarchs could levy without the consent of Parliament from coastal cities and counties, and until 1628 it did not cause any protests.
    Protests began when Charles I decided that it would be entirely legal to extend the tax to the entire country.
  10. +6
    3 October 2023 09: 46
    all the great victories of the Russian fleet occurred in the era of sailing ships; with the advent of steam and metal, successes were very modest
    1. +4
      3 October 2023 11: 45
      Why troll, and even so thickly? The article is not about that at all.
      Quote: Ryaruav
      with the advent of steam and metal, successes are very modest

      The ground army that fought the Turks in WWII would categorically disagree with you. And in the Baltic, it was our fleet, and not the German one, that with a certain regularity supported the coastal flank of the army with fire, controlling Moonsund.
      Therefore, it would be correct to say “not very modest successes,” there were successes, but “the absence of striking victories in naval battles” - and one can quite agree with the latter.
      1. +2
        3 October 2023 12: 16
        Why troll, and even so thickly?

        And what is trolling here, if you approach it objectively?
        1. +4
          3 October 2023 13: 38
          Could it be that this attack is not related to the topic of the article?
        2. +2
          3 October 2023 15: 08
          Quote from Frettaskyrandi
          And what is trolling here, if you approach it objectively?

          As you have already been told, you are throwing a controversial statement, which is the object of Internet holivars, into a topic that has nothing to do with it
    2. +5
      3 October 2023 11: 57
      all the high-profile victories of the Russian fleet occurred in the era of sailing ships

      And two countries - Turkey and Sweden, which by the XNUMXth - early XNUMXth centuries were not listed among the great maritime powers.
  11. +4
    3 October 2023 11: 41
    Great article, very informative, thank you! hi
    1. +5
      3 October 2023 14: 12
      Good afternoon.
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Great article, very informative, thank you!

      A very interesting article indeed, but as for Samuel Pepys;
      And in 1686 Pepys found a way out. According to Bryant's book "Samuel Pepys: Savior of the Navy"

      This is the opinion of one person, in fact, James II ordered the creation of a commission for the repair of ships of the fleet in 1686, it consisted of 12 people and was not led by Samuel Pepys. By October 1688, repairs were completed on almost all ships in the fleet. Further events stopped her work. The French defeat of the Anglo-Dutch fleet on July 10, 1690 had a much greater impact on increasing funding for both the construction and repair of the fleet.
      1. +5
        3 October 2023 15: 07
        Quote: 27091965i
        but as for Samuel Pepys

        Thank you very much, dear Igor! You make a valuable correction. For my part, I will note that I am not too interested in the sailing period of the fleet; here I am rather interested in general principles and trends. That is, for me to understand, it is important that there was, in fact, the construction of new ships under the guise of repairing old ones and the general reasons why this happened, but thanks to whom, this is secondary for me.
        Which, I repeat, does not in any way negate the value of your comment. I will be very grateful to you for such comments in the future. hi
        1. +4
          3 October 2023 16: 42
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          For my part, I will note that I am not too interested in the sailing period of the fleet; here I am rather interested in general principles and trends.

          For me it has more to do with looking at England's fleet funding systems. In their debates, they sometimes referred to laws adopted 50 or more years ago, from the moment of discussion, when you find this law, you wonder what reasons led to its adoption. In general, “the further into the forest, the more firewood.”
  12. +1
    3 October 2023 11: 51
    An excellent article, especially against the general background of VO) How nice it is to read not demagoguery and propaganda, but a well-written article on a specific topic. Sergey, thank you!
  13. +1
    3 October 2023 12: 42
    Sergey Makhov, isn’t this the same Makhov who told Tactic Media about the Hansa and other troubles in the Baltic?
    1. +2
      3 October 2023 13: 40
      I don’t know about media tactics, but on Zen George Rooke
      https://dzen.ru/id/5abc934c9e29a229f18dbd4a
      1. +1
        3 October 2023 13: 53
        And I subscribed to this channel, yes Media Tactics or he had lectures on Digital History.
    2. 0
      3 October 2023 14: 12
      It is he, Sergei, who publishes a book about Baltic “stories” (even, it seems, he published it).
      1. +1
        3 October 2023 16: 23
        Quote: Ryazanets87
        publishes a book about Baltic “stories” (even, it seems, published)

        Sends by mail to customers.
  14. +2
    3 October 2023 16: 43
    The British are distinguished shipwrights, of course...especially when they praise themselves after drinking a fair amount of rum.
    For the Baltic Fleet, in the glorious city of Arkhangelsk, 1724 1768-gun ships of the Peter 14 type were built in 54-2. And they served from 13 to 16 years.
    With the first 66-gun ships of the "Glory of Russia" type, which were built from 1739 to 1773, there were problems with the strength of the hulls. Here are their names: “Leferm”, “Happiness”, “Prosperity”, “Ekaterina”, “Friedemaker”. As an investigation conducted by the Admiralty Board established, during launching, when the hull was sliding, as soon as it was halfway into the water, its movement stopped, and the sagging heavy stern of the ship deformed the keel, relaxing the entire set of the hull. By taking measures (increasing the time of lowering the hull, increasing the inclination and increasing the length of the slip), the main reason for the deformation of the hulls was eliminated.
    Ships traveled from Arkhangelsk to Kronstadt on average for 45 days. Not bad combined factory and state tests! At the same time, sailors did not receive preferential length of service for serving in the Arctic... From this series, the famous “Don’t touch me.” In 1765 he came from Arkhangelsk to Kronstadt, in 1769-70 he went to the Mediterranean Sea, took part in the battles of Sicily, Chios Gulf, in Chesme Bay. The 66-gun ships built in Arkhangelsk each had three long-distance voyages: “Saratov”, “Vsevolod”, “Count Orlov”, “In Memory of Eustathius”, “Pobeda”, “Victor”, “Dmitry Donskoy”, “Alexander Nevsky”. All of them famously beat the Turks in the Mediterranean Sea, returned to the Baltic, some of the ships also beat the Swedes...
    The battleship "Europe", type "Glory of Russia", built in Arkhangelsk in 1768 under the leadership of Master A. Davydov, during 23 years of service in the Baltic Fleet, made 5 long voyages and participated in 3 wars.
    Over 10 years (1770-1780) 18 battleships were built in Arkhangelsk: 3 served for 19 years, 1 - 20 years, 2 - 21 years, 1 - 23 years, 1 - 35 years... And the 19th century gives a not bad picture The full service life of two timely timbered Arkhangelsk and two St. Petersburg ships built in 1828 was, respectively, 29, 29, and 26, 20 years.
    It seems that after the rum, the English will start raking in some salted cabbage with cranberries and more potatoes.
  15. BAI
    +1
    3 October 2023 18: 23
    The Cutty Sark clipper lasted 100 years
    1. +2
      3 October 2023 19: 19
      Quote: BAI
      The Cutty Sark clipper lasted 100 years

      Don’t confuse the composite clipper, built in the second half of the XNUMXth century, with wooden ships of the XNUMXth - XNUMXth centuries
  16. Eug
    -1
    3 October 2023 19: 19
    Well, as far as I know, ships sail on the seas and oceans, but a different substance floats. In general, the lines “everything has already happened” come to mind...
  17. +3
    3 October 2023 22: 31
    Thick (Pestrikov Andrey Borisovich), respected, the Kholmogory karbas is not large in size, 10-11 meters long, up to 2 meters wide, up to 1,5 meters high, had no superstructures, pulling it ashore for the winter in October is not much work. And one more thing. There are no shipworms in the White Sea, there are sea acorns, but they don’t live in fresh water, the high tide rarely reaches Kholmogory unless the moray blows out, and in the Dvina Bay the water is not salty. Filamentous algae do not grow on the underwater part; they are cold. If necessary, it was not a problem to replace the pine board of the side of the carbass, damaged by ice or when a drift was hit, or when the boat hit a stone during the winter. They tarred it in April and launched it into the water in May. So they served for 10 years.
    1. Fat
      +1
      4 October 2023 01: 24
      Quote: Tests
      So they served for 10 years.

      hi Eugene. I agree with you.
      Kholmogory karbas, reminiscent of Pomeranian ones, had a length of up to 10,6 m and were built mainly in Kholmogory district, as well as in Kola, Pustozersk and Mezen. In the stern there was a cabin - a cabin - for the helmsman. Typically, the length of this aft superstructure did not exceed 1/4 of the length of the hull. The sailing rig is similar to the Pomeranian karbas.
      The craftsman’s ability to choose high-quality material played a very important role. The place where the tree grew and its age were also taken into account. If we talk, for example, about pine, it was believed that “at 60 years old it is only suitable for firewood, and only at 190, 200 and 300 years old does it become the size of a ship’s wood, suitable for a set and for masts” (Memorial book for the Arkhangelsk province for 1861, Arch-k).
      10 years... With good care, karbas could serve for all 30 seasons.
  18. +1
    3 October 2023 22: 32
    Thick (Pestrikov Andrey Borisovich), respected, the Kholmogory karbas is not large in size, 10-11 meters long, up to 2 meters wide, up to 1,5 meters high, had no superstructures, pulling it ashore for the winter in October is not much work. And one more thing. There are no shipworms in the White Sea, there are sea acorns, but they don’t live in fresh water, the high tide rarely reaches Kholmogory unless the moray blows out, and in the Dvina Bay the water is not salty. Filamentous algae do not grow on the underwater part; they are cold. If necessary, it was not a problem to replace the pine board of the side of the carbass, damaged by ice or when a drift was hit, or when the boat hit a stone during the winter. They tarred it in April and launched it into the water in May. So they served for 10 years.
  19. +2
    4 October 2023 09: 21
    Tolsty (Pestrikov Andrey Borisovich), dear, you wrote: “Kholmogory karbas, reminiscent of Pomeranian ones, had a length of up to 10,6 m and were built mainly in Kholmogory district, as well as in Kola, Pustozersk and Mezen.” I read about karbass of the mid-19th century, that in Pustozersk (Pustozersk people used them for fishing on Novaya Zemlya, the carrying capacity was up to 200 pounds) and Koyde karbass had a trimmed flat stern. In Pustozersk karbass were sewn by Izhma residents or from the village of Izhma they were driven along Izhma and Pechora a ready-made boat. In Pustozersk there is tundra.
    And in Mezen, karbas for the river were sewn without a keel, flat-bottomed, and those used for seal fishing were keeled and along the keel, for ease of movement on the ice, two runners were attached, which were called “heelings”. In the Kholmogory district, the best karbas were made in Yemetsk.
  20. 0
    4 October 2023 12: 03
    Interesting article. Learned a lot of new things.)))