Each specialist knows his job. A little about assault formations in corps and armies

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Each specialist knows his job. A little about assault formations in corps and armies

I did not plan to write this material. The usual message about some reform of our Armed Forces. And even from an unnamed source in the military department. But the plans had to be changed already because the message was commented on by a fairly informed source - the chairman of the Union of Russian Paratroopers, Colonel Valery Yuryev:

“The military operation showed the need to have specialized units for storming fortified areas. At the initial stage, there were many problems due to the fact that the scouts were used not for their intended purpose, but as attack aircraft. Because of this, many highly qualified specialists were lost.”

As readers probably already understood, we are talking about the decision of the Russian Ministry of Defense to create separate reconnaissance and assault brigades, which are designed to storm fortifications and conduct reconnaissance in the immediate rear of the enemy. Some sources report that the recruitment of such formations has already begun. Moreover, the new brigades will organizationally be part of the already existing corps and armies.



To be honest, I was struck by two theses that are being circulated today. The first is that this is some kind of innovation, a new word in military science, which did not exist even in the USSR. And the second is that the assault formations will also be reconnaissance. I get the impression that the experience of the Soviet army has been completely forgotten. Even WWII experience.

In the East they say that every donkey must wear its... ears. Each fighter must mind his own business. Scouts - reconnaissance, attack aircraft - taking fortifications, pilots - flying, artillerymen - shooting, etc. It is irrational to create hybrids. A good specialist cannot be a generalist if he has not been trained for years.

Airborne Forces and DShB in the Soviet Union


I have already written that the Airborne Forces of the Soviet Union and the Russian Airborne Forces are different types of troops. Veterans of the Soviet Airborne Forces can even today list those divisions that were part of the airborne troops. In fact, there were very few paratroopers. But among them there were no air assault brigades. DSBs were precisely part of motorized rifle corps and armies. Although they often wore airborne uniforms.

It's all about the tasks! The DSBs were indeed assault formations. And they worked at a short distance from the LBS. As far as I remember, up to 150 km. Accordingly, their task was to help the motorized rifles in the offensive. They landed in the area of ​​the enemy's fortified area, took it by storm and held out until the main forces of the army or corps arrived.

That is why the DSB fighters had delivery vehicles that allowed them to cross the front line with minimal losses. The DSB included helicopter units. And the attack aircraft made parachute jumps from helicopters. This is something that most Soviet Airborne Forces fighters cannot boast of.

I don’t think it’s worth writing about the fact that the assault units had much more and more powerful weapons. Heavy helicopters MI-6 and Mi-26 made it possible to land quite serious weapons. By the way, this is the answer to questions about why the Russian army risks its personnel by transporting entire companies on the MI-26. Inappropriate use...

The main workhorses of the Airborne Forces were the Il-76 and AN-12. Each airborne division had its own transport aircraft unit. Hence the name - airborne division. But in the regiment aviation did not have. That is why the Airborne Forces consisted of parachute regiments. From this it becomes clear that, unlike the DSB, the Airborne Forces operate at a much greater distance from the front line, and the tasks they face are completely different.

Many people write that the era of the Airborne Forces has passed. Alas, this happened when it turned out that paratroopers were much more trained than motorized riflemen. Already in Afghanistan, airborne regiments were airborne only in name. They were used like ordinary SMEs. However, like the DShB. Even then, the landing units and formations suffered significant losses, and it was necessary to urgently replenish them almost every call.

Replenishment was trained at two border points, in training SMEs. Moreover, they trained specific specialists, reconnaissance officers, machine gunners, grenade launchers, etc. After completing training, it was possible to get not only into the infantry, but also into units of the Airborne Forces or Airborne Forces. That is, by 1981/1982 it was possible to talk about leveling out the training of units of the 40th Army.

It’s sad, but the “Afghan tradition” migrated unchanged to the Northern Military District. Can anyone tell me what is the difference in the tasks performed by motorized rifles, Cossacks, BARS, paratroopers or marines? Someone is surprised that every day we read messages in reports that begin with the words: “Reconnaissance officers... of the brigade, after a fierce battle, captured a stronghold of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in...”.

Experience of PMC "Wagner" to help


Today, almost all elite formations and units of the Russian Armed Forces participate in the SVO. Including special forces brigades, paratroopers, marines and others. There are also those formations that are planning to create - DSB! But for some reason the generals from the Ministry of Defense forgot about them. Give us new attack aircraft! Let's say a new word in military science!

I get the impression that someone is trying to hide their mistakes in troop management. Almost from the very beginning of the Northern Military District, elite units and formations became... well-trained infantry. The kind of infantry that can be thrown into any “hole” to prevent the enemy from advancing. And they left.

This manner of using the best units and subunits leads to the fact that elite, well-trained fighters are put out of action. Ultimately, an artillery shell, mine or MLRS rocket does not care how the fighter is trained. This projectile does not need to fight hand-to-hand with this fighter.

Alas, such use led to the fact that a shortage of personnel became obvious in the units. Helped out... mobilization. The best (we will follow the logic of our generals) mobilized after training were sent to these very elite units. I wrote above that the training of an elite fighter cannot last a couple of months. This takes years!

Probably only now, in the second year of participation in the North Military District, those mobilized can quite deservedly call themselves fighters of an elite unit. But the loss of personnel continues. I don't write about quantity. There is simply no war without losses. So will commanders be able to restore the combat capabilities of their units in such conditions?

Of course, such units and units still stand out from others, but this cannot continue for long. Not only fighters, but also commanders drop out. “Theoreticians” will soon train personnel. Indeed, it is easier to create connections from scratch. This will require funds from the budget. This will provide new positions for officers. But, most importantly, there will be time for training personnel. Fortunately, there are now enough contract workers.

Now a little about the structure that won the hearts of Russians with its exploits. I'm talking about the Wagner PMC. A unit that can turn an untrained newcomer into a normal fighter. Numerous videos from the training ground, where recruits were driven to the point of sweat by their commanders, prove this. Moreover, they are trained not by the commanders of training units, but by those commanders who, after training, will lead them into battle. As you taught, fight with that.

You can argue about the company's losses. But why? In the conditions in which Wagner worked, the losses were quite justified. Almost hand-to-hand combat in dense urban areas... And the training system in PMCs faces the same problem as the army. Time trouble. Lack of time. Undoubtedly, PMC or Akhmat fighters are well trained to conduct urban battles. But is it enough?

DSBs are needed, just as all other military specialists are needed


The problem of misuse of military specialists has always existed and will always exist. This is an axiom of war. Sometimes, in order to accomplish some task, commanders are forced to throw all their available forces into battle. They are forced to go into the trenches themselves. But it is important that this does not become the norm.

Here, at least for now, this is exactly what is happening. They threw paratroopers or special forces to help the infantry and... forgot them there. Well, the enemy has been stopped, the task is being accomplished well. What will happen next is not so important today... We will solve problems as they arise... Senior commanders will help with reserves.

It is necessary to create assault formations. The process is long and expensive. But this, I repeat, is necessary. Not every person can be a stormtrooper. How not everyone can stand on the defensive until the last. Not everyone has the patience and endurance to be a scout. Why, any military specialty requires certain human character traits.

What has happened has passed. We all, not only fighters and commanders in the LBS, but even “couch troops,” have learned and are learning to fight in new conditions, using new technologies, new weapons. Teaching a commander who has been at war for a year or two or three will only spoil things. He himself will teach anyone at his level.

But it is necessary to get away from the practice of inappropriate use of parts and connections. Stormtroopers must attack. Motorized rifles hold the defense. Raids and landing operations, respectively, are the lot of paratroopers. Well, give everything related to water and the coast to the Marines. They were all trained in this for several years in schools, military universities and academies!
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  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. +4
      2 October 2023 15: 58
      Yah? What do you mean by heavy? Tanks were given to the landing forces and marines at the very beginning of the Northern Military District. Unless there are regular self-propelled guns in 152 mm caliber. And who now has enough 152-mm self-propelled guns?
  2. +13
    2 October 2023 06: 09
    “Attack aircraft should carry out assaults. Motorized infantry should hold the defense. Raids and landing operations, accordingly, are the destiny of paratroopers. Well, give everything that has to do with water and the coast to the marines.”

    absolutely right. True, it follows from this that neither paratroopers nor marines are needed. at least in such quantities
    In general, the entire Russian Armed Forces for a long time resembled a bunch of seasonings without the main dish - here you have paratroopers, and marines, and military space, and sailors... the only thing missing was a mere trifle - ground forces that were normal in quantity and quality. but this is not a problem for a country like Russia, right? If the USSR with 5 million people could afford various exotics, then for Russia with a 200 thousand-strong land army to keep 50-70 thousand in marines and paratroopers looked quite anecdotal. not to mention the fleet, so beloved on this site, which predictably turned out to be completely secondary to the real threats to our country.
    1. +10
      2 October 2023 06: 18
      Ugumtz... Especially the sailors, in the sense of the Marines. Use forever - just like stormtroopers! I repeat - what if you have to parachute to Odessa, for example? Who will go? If the Marines are all busy above the edge?
      1. 0
        3 October 2023 14: 10
        Can you compare the assault on Koenigsberg and Operation Overlord? In Königsberg, trained assault troops were used. In Overlord, allied forces were forced to land from the sea. The BDK is an easy target for Srorm Shadow, and the missile carriers have not yet been destroyed. There are also ground-based Harpoon missiles. Unfortunately, successful landing (from the sea) operations can be counted on one hand.
        1. 0
          5 December 2023 18: 23
          if the author of the article recalls the experience of the USSR, then maybe it’s worth remembering that what they want to create is the ShISBr - but adjusted for modern times, but certainly not the DShB
          the analogue of which [SHISBr] in the Northern Military District was precisely the “Wagners”
    2. +9
      2 October 2023 09: 26
      Stormtroopers must attack.

      The problem is that they cannot decide who stormtroopers are. Either infantry, or Wagnerites, or paratroopers. Now there is a new version, stormtroopers are reconnaissance aircraft. For me, this is delusional nonsense. Motorized riflemen must be able to both storm and hold a defense.
      1. +2
        2 October 2023 15: 07
        It turns out that too many people, in your opinion, are delusional.
        Here is a special vehicle for such units.

        And here is an article from 2017 about such units.
        https://topwar.ru/128251-shturmovye-tayfuny-dlya-inzhenernogo-specnaza.html
        1. 0
          3 October 2023 10: 06
          You probably didn’t read it, or you read it but didn’t understand it. You posted a vehicle for engineering special forces. And we are talking about reconnaissance and assault units.
      2. +10
        2 October 2023 18: 44
        Quote: glory1974

        The problem is that they cannot decide who the stormtroopers are.

        During the Second World War, ShISBr - Assault Engineering Sapper Brigades - were formed in the amount of 20 brigades. Specialization - breaking through fortified areas, crossing rivers, street fighting.
        The author doesn’t even remember this experience...
    3. +4
      2 October 2023 22: 06
      Quote: squid
      for Russia with a 200-strong land army to its

      Actually, there were 280 thousand in the state, but that doesn’t make it any easier.
      Quote: squid
      50-70 thousand in marines and paratroopers looked rather anecdotal

      50 thousand in the Airborne Forces and 20 thousand in the Marine Marines of the Navy. I don't think that's a lot. Especially if you keep in mind that the Marines are entrusted with the defense of the coast, they will have to hold and reinforce the garrisons on the islands (Sakhalin, Kuril ridge) and fight on the coast. Rather, it follows that there are too few of them.
      And the Airborne Forces are essentially not paratroopers, but airmobile Rapid Reaction Forces. Because the army was at the Malenkaya towers and Trishkin Kaftan had to be patched up with something, quickly transferred to the harvested theater of operations. This is the kind of patch that the Airborne Forces are. Any “behind enemy lines”, “vertical coverage” and other nonsense are no longer possible. And Transport Aviation no longer exists in such quantity and quality and is unlikely to exist in the foreseeable future.
      Quote: squid
      For a long time, the entire Russian Armed Forces resembled a bunch of seasonings without the main course - here you have paratroopers, and marines, and military space, and sailors... the only thing missing was a mere trifle - ground forces normal in quantity and quality

      And these are the Golden Words. For such “military construction” these builders would have to tear off not only their hands, but also their heads and raise them on poles above the Kremlin battlements. But such justice will not happen in our realities.

      As for the creation of assault formations, I have already written more than once on the VO forums that the experience of the North Military District has shown that even in the interests of waging this conflict, it is necessary not only to return to the normal composition of the Ground Forces and their sufficient numbers, but also about the need to have Each (!) motorized rifle and tank division includes one heavy assault brigade.
      Not a “reconnaissance-assault”, and not an “airborne assault”, but rather a Heavy Assault Brigade. The level of equipment, armament and training of which must correspond to the tasks of storming fortified areas, echeloned fortification lines, urban development and other complex assault operations. Therefore, both the weapons and technical equipment of such brigades must be HEAVY. In addition to the regular MBT battalion, from the company to the BMPT battalion, highly protected assault self-propelled guns are capable of firing both from closed positions and direct fire to destroy permanent buildings and fortifications (remember the experience of the ISU-152, only with a turret and a high level of protection - they will still be needed create) . The assault infantry itself must have a TBTR on a tank chassis, with the same level of protection as a tank + wheeled TBTR. Moreover, both TBTR are required to have a NORMAL (that is, CORRECT) lineup - MTO in front, a spacious troop compartment in the rear, a ramp for convenient and quick dismounting/loading in the stern. And no fantasies beyond that.
      In essence, such a Heavy Assault Brigade should consist of and be easily divided into three BTGs, each of which, in composition and armament, represents a reinforced assault regiment.
      And during assault operations, the entire rest of the combined arms division must fulfill the role of providing the TSB with fire, reconnaissance and target designation, providing rear support, holding the flanks, and supplying the battlefield.
      In the current Northern Military District alone, our Army will have to storm so many cities, water barriers, coasts and layered defense lines that the only sensible choice in building a Big Army is to rely on Heavy Assault Brigades as part of combined arms (motorized rifle) and tank divisions.
      But approximately the same thing needs to be done within the divisions and brigades of the Marine Corps. And according to the same principle - an assault battalion as part of each regiment, an assault regiment as part of each individual MP division. Because there are many water obstacles, and to force the water obstacles and storm the coasts, SPECIALLY trained assault units and formations are needed.
      Airborne Forces... The landing on Gostomel showed how surprise, coupled with skill and equipment, can work wonders... The fact that the General Staff...loved this whole operation from the beginning, having so “skilfully” planned and organized everything, is not their fault. The landing itself and holding the bridgehead until the main forces arrived was magnificent. Therefore, I absolutely agree with the Author about the inadmissibility of using the Airborne Forces as linear infantry, these are the Rapid Deployment Forces. And each airborne division must have an air assault brigade, or at least a regiment to conduct this kind of operation. And precisely for landing by helicopters in the near rear to capture and hold key infrastructure facilities, transport, etc.
      But the main striking force of the RF Armed Forces should be the Heavy Assault Brigades. With emphasis on the word - HEAVY.
      hi
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +1
        3 October 2023 05: 35
        What kind of air assault brigade could there be as part of the Airborne Forces?!
        Airborne divisions are one thing, but air assault brigades are something completely different.
        And the Airborne Forces should have both airborne forces and separate air assault brigades. The airborne assault brigade, in turn, is armed with heavier equipment (for example, the BMP-3M Manul, and not the BMD-4M, which are used by airborne divisions) and, accordingly, tanks. And also, including in their composition, they must have a separate air squadron, with transport and attack helicopters, like the Ka-52 and Mi-28.
        The Marine Corps should also be completely reorganized into air assault divisions and separate air assault brigades, naturally increasing their composition and strength.
        As for the “main striking force” on the battlefield of the RF Armed Forces, then it is necessary to reorganize all motorized rifle and tank divisions into heavy infantry/tank shock-assault divisions - TPUSD and TTUSD, respectively. Which, in turn, need to be equipped with new heavy equipment: T-14, T-15, Coalition-SV self-propelled guns and all other necessary latest equipment.
        In parallel with assault divisions, it is also not worth abandoning lighter mechanized infantry, i.e. motorized riflemen. Which need to be consolidated into separate motorized rifle brigades and, accordingly, equipped with lighter equipment, such as the Kurganets-25 BMP and the K-17 Boomerang BMP, including T-90M tanks.
        And in the same way, create several separate tank brigades, which, unlike heavy tank shock divisions, are equipped not with T-14s, but with T-90Ms. This is roughly how I see the modernization of our army.
        1. 0
          5 December 2023 18: 25
          one of the main problems even of the Soviet Airborne Forces was, for example, that all The VTA would be enough to transport only one airborne division with all its equipment. I emphasize - the entire VTA and only one VDD
      3. +2
        3 October 2023 10: 14
        Firstly, all assault, heavy brigades are of the past, literally and figuratively. It is necessary to look for new methods at a new technological level.
        Secondly, what you propose should be the case in any motorized rifle brigade.
        Thirdly, there is no need to storm anything. The theory and practice of isolating a combat area works great, but not in our execution. Air supremacy of reconnaissance and strike drones, high-precision strikes against identified targets, obstruction of the supply of ammunition, removal of the wounded, and the unit cannot fight and is forced to retreat. We cannot do this now. There are not enough drones, high-tech weapons and long-range artillery. Ukraine can, but it lacks the same thing, and it is used in a limited way, to our happiness.
        1. +3
          3 October 2023 11: 05
          Respect! You need to hit the enemy where the enemy is weaker, and not where the enemy has strengthened, dug in and is waiting. And the assault on a modern city is just such an intricate way to kill more people in this particular place.
        2. +1
          3 October 2023 16: 33
          What can't we do now?! The creation of drones is now, like no other type of military equipment, put into mass production.
          And why is it suddenly assault and heavy brigades - this is the last century? When in the past, in the history of the armies of the world, were specialized assault brigades created? During the Second World War, to storm cities and towns, assault groups and detachments were created in units of ordinary linear infantry, as part of battalions and companies. Whatever is right, and this will become obvious when, during the Afghan war, air assault battalions will be created in the SA ground forces, as part of motorized rifle divisions and brigades. And they showed themselves to be very effective; unfortunately, they were disbanded after the war.
          Here we are talking about specialized heavy assault formations, which will be designed and tailored for assault operations. Which we really lacked during the assault on Bakhmut. But there are larger cities ahead.
          Well, all this blah-blah-blah... about the fact that we need to look for new methods at a new technological level - these are all armchair, amateurish arguments and nothing more.
          This is exactly the same thing that at one time they also said that tanks are outdated and how the branch of the military is becoming obsolete. But as the SVO has shown, tanks are the most alive of all living things, and you can’t go anywhere on the battlefield without them - the enemy won’t even let you fart without them. In general, the same as without other military equipment - infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers, artillery and others...
          The same armchair “experts” are having exactly the same conversations about the irrelevance of the Airborne Forces, but of course this is not the case! The Airborne Forces need reform, an increase in numbers and the creation of large separate air assault brigades, with infantry fighting vehicles, tanks and helicopter squadrons.
          And as they quite aptly noted:
          “Attack aircraft should carry out assaults. Motorized infantry should hold the defense. Raids and landing operations, accordingly, are the destiny of paratroopers. Well, give everything that has to do with water and the coast to the marines.”
          1. 0
            4 October 2023 17: 36
            Quote from The Watcher
            What can't we do now?! The creation of drones is now, like no other type of military equipment, put into mass production.

            Where did you get this from? Drones are different. If, as TV says, things are more or less in order with lancets and mopeds, then with heavy reconnaissance drones like Orion or heavy attack drones like Bayraktar, judging by the reports of the same TV, things are not at all so optimistic.

            Quote from The Watcher
            Well, all this blah-blah-blah... about the fact that we need to look for new methods at a new technological level - these are all armchair, amateurish arguments and nothing more.


            While Eisenhower's "storm troopers" were chewing sand, storming the Wehrmacht defense line on the beaches in Normandy, a group of armchair amateurs of Openheimer were preparing "new methods, at a new technological level" for the American military. And all because chewing sand (losing people in vain when it can be avoided) is a thing of the past, as the leaders of these armchair amateurs believed. We need to prepare for future wars, and the future is technology, and without technology, people will quickly run out.
          2. -1
            5 October 2023 10: 27
            When in the past, in the history of the armies of the world, were specialized assault brigades created?

            During WWII, assault engineer brigades were created in the Red Army.
            We are talking about specialized heavy assault formations that will be designed and tailored for assault operations. Which we really lacked during the assault on Bakhmut. But there are larger cities ahead.

            Wagner put 20 people in Bakhmut. This is a dead-end path tried 000 years ago.
            Well, all this blah-blah-blah... about the fact that we need to look for new methods at a new technological level - these are all armchair, amateurish arguments and nothing more.

            The concept of fighting control points and important logistics hubs. Adopted by a directive of the US Chiefs of Staff. New methods of fighting and new weapons, “Hymars,” have been developed for this concept. The essence: reconnaissance of control points and ammunition depots, destruction of them with precise hits. Result: Two dozen of our used warehouses and a certain number of control points were destroyed. I can give many examples. The same drones that we seemed to have, but methods for their use have not yet been developed.
            That’s why we still have T-55, T-62 tanks, D-20 “Stalin’s sledgehammer” guns, because people like you sit on the General Staff and believe that we don’t need anything new, and at the same time they don’t know history.
        3. -1
          3 October 2023 18: 21
          Quote: glory1974
          Firstly, all assault, heavy brigades are of the past, literally and figuratively.

          The experience of the Northern Military District has clearly shown that this is precisely the component we are missing. Wagner's attack aircraft showed HOW assault units should work, but they lacked the technical equipment in terms of heavy armored vehicles for assault infantry - TBTR and TBMP. As well as BMPTs and assault self-propelled guns (or an assault tank with a 152 mm gun of moderate/low ballistics). In WWII, the Red/Soviet Army had ISU-152 assault self-propelled guns for the destruction of bunkers and permanent buildings. Now we need an analogue of such self-propelled guns in terms of functionality and security.
          Quote: glory1974
          It is necessary to look for new methods at a new technological level.

          Bypassing fortified areas and resistance centers is not a new method. The Wehrmacht used this in 1941 and during the war with France, this was what the Western Group of Forces planned during the Cold War... And this is exactly what the enemy was waiting for, provoking us to the North Military District.
          And I waited!! So there is no need to offer the old rake as a new method. The enemy's entire strategy is based on urban warfare. And they will cling to them, hiding behind the civilian population. And leaving cities with intact garrisons in the rear... We already went through this in the spring of 2022. We are fighting in a very urbanized environment, where any city, town, factory, plant or farm can and will become defense centers. And to crack this defense, you need an appropriate tool.
          Heavy and highly protected Assault Infantry Tool.
          Quote: glory1974
          Secondly, what you propose should be the case in any motorized rifle brigade.

          Isn't that what I wrote about? When he proposed that, ideally, each tank and motorized rifle division should have a heavy assault brigade. Armed and trained specifically in breaking the lines of fortifications and storming cities and echeloned lines of fortifications. In essence, such a TSBR should be the strike force of the division, and all other units and subunits should play the role of support and support.
          Now a decision has been made to form assault brigades as part of armies and corps. Perhaps this will be the first stage of such a transformation of our Ground Forces. But the most pressing question arises about the armament and technical equipment of such brigades. TBTR and TBMP with tank-level protection and the CORRECT layout are required. And this must be done as quickly as possible.
          And most likely, and at the same time much cheaper, this can be done by transforming old tanks into TBTR (TBMP will be obtained from TBTR by installing a more powerful uninhabited combat module) by tank repair plants. And as a model and guideline it is worth taking the experience of creating by Kharkov engineers and designers (even before the coup in Kyiv in 2014) TBTR-55 from T-55 and TBTR-64 ​​from T-64. Welders and mechanics will have to work hard, but it’s definitely worth it. Converting a tank into a TBTR or TBMP will cost significantly less than creating a new light BMP-3 and an armored personnel carrier based on it from scratch.
          Quote: glory1974
          Thirdly, there is no need to storm anything.

          angry Why ?
          Quote: glory1974
          The theory and practice of isolating a combat area works great, but not in our execution.

          Glory, if we again begin to bypass the cities (and they are located quite densely), then it is not we who will cut off the supply to our advancing groups, but they. Exactly from these bypassed cities.
          Block, surround such cities and lay siege?
          How much effort, money and resources will this require?
          We will no longer have a war of maneuver, when we can drive the enemy “across an open field” and force him to surrender. Now more than ever, the experience of World War II is relevant. Especially since the Belarusian operation.
          Quote: glory1974
          Air supremacy of reconnaissance and strike drones, high-precision strikes against identified targets, obstruction of the supply of ammunition, removal of the wounded, and the unit cannot fight and is forced to retreat.

          Soooo. That is, technical superiority and air supremacy are necessary? But this is an axiom. Who will storm the fortified areas created in cities? After all, they have already chosen a strategy for themselves and will firmly follow it - to impose war on the cities. And with all your desire to wage a war of maneuver, you will somehow have to do what you really don’t want - carry out assault operations.
          Quote: glory1974
          .We can’t do that now.

          But Wagner succeeded. And among the soldiers of Donbass. And at Akhmat, although this is generally the Russian Guard. There was not enough technical equipment (!). And special training for fighting in the city. This needs to be taught.
          And they themselves know better what stormtroopers need for an assault. And I write this from the experience of communicating with them. And foreseeing that we would have to deal with exactly this kind of warfare soon, several years before the start of the Northern Military District I wrote about the need for heavy armored vehicles for assault units. Because “we’ll have to take the cities!” , a lot of cities . And the concept of an assault tank with a 152 mm gun. proposed and justified reduced/low ballistics. And the need for TBTR and TBMP from old tanks, so that quickly, cheaply and very efficiently...
          Now it has come to the General Staff, the Moscow Region and the Supreme Command.
          The truth is so far only about the formation of assault brigades... though for some reason... "reconnaissance and assault"... and this formulation is alarming. Because intelligence is intelligence. And attack aircraft are attack aircraft. And their preparation is different. Although assault formations (brigades) cannot do without their own reconnaissance. Just like without sappers. As well as without many other specialists useful for the assault.
          Quote: glory1974
          We can’t do that now. There aren’t enough drones, high-tech weapons and long-range artillery.

          That's why we sit on the defensive. Because in the Little Army all this was neglected. And we will sit like this until the Big Army is built. And it is being built. And our own long-range and high-precision artillery will be in commercial quantities in the spring. Because already in the series there were reports from the assembly shops of the Coalition-SV. And the production of UAVs is growing exponentially. And the production of ammunition. Only when all this is enough and the Army is numerically ready... the question of the Offensive will arise.
          And not a single offensive is complete without assaults.
          1. 0
            4 October 2023 19: 15
            Quote: bayard
            TBTR-55 from T-55 and TBTR-64 ​​from T-64. Welders and mechanics will have to work hard, but it’s definitely worth it. Converting a tank into a TBTR or TBMP will cost significantly less than creating a new light BMP-3 and an armored personnel carrier based on it from scratch.


            In conditions where the enemy’s defense line is saturated with highly effective modern ATGMs, ersatz TBTR and ersatz TBMP are practically useless: the cost of ATGMs is not comparable to the cost of even ersatz equipment, and NATO’s capabilities for the production and supply of ATGMs there are many times greater than our capabilities for the production/modernization/repair of obsolete Soviet technology. Alas, but in modern military conflicts (if we are not talking about banana or desert lands), for almost 80 years, victory has been ensured not by mechanics, but by scientists, engineers, technologists and mass production.
            In our case, we need:
            a) 24/7 situational awareness throughout the entire theater of operations to an operational depth of up to 300 km and the presence of effective highly secure channels for information exchange between combat units of their own aircraft;
            2) dominance of the Aerospace Forces in the airspace over this territory and the creation of a no-fly zone for the enemy;
            3) the possibility of mass use of reconnaissance and attack drones;
            4) the possibility of mass use of high-precision guided(!) ammunition, including operational-tactical MLRS and medium-range missiles;
            5) the presence of active protection systems against ATGMs on military equipment.
            And most importantly - total numerical superiority in manpower and equipment in the specified theater of operations!
            Much more can be added, but without fulfilling the above conditions, it is impossible to win modern conflicts of any intensity. And you need to think about it.
            And all the discussions about “heavy brigades in the composition of something”, about the miraculous successes of those who “could” (?), about the experience of long-past wars and storming of cities, all of this is a discussion about the effectiveness of the stone ax.
          2. +2
            5 October 2023 10: 35
            The experience of the Northern Military District has clearly shown that this is precisely the component we are missing. Wagner's attack aircraft showed HOW assault units should work, but they lacked technical equipment in terms of heavy armored vehicles for assault infantry - TBTR and TBMP

            Wagener showed how not to work. Put 20 people behind a forester’s hut? This is the dead end of the First World War.
            When he proposed that, ideally, each tank and motorized rifle division should have a heavy assault brigade. Armed and trained specifically in breaking the lines of fortifications and storming cities and echeloned lines of fortifications. In essence, such a TSBR should be the strike force of the division, and all other units and subunits should play the role of support and support.

            Also a dead-end path taken in the 20th century. Storming is evil. It is being done now out of desperation. And all units and units must be able to fight, and at the same time have the necessary weapons.
            With all your desire to wage a maneuver war, you will somehow have to do what you really don’t want - carry out assault operations.

            The concept of isolating a combat area makes it possible to do without an assault, but for this you need the necessary weapons, equipment and means of reconnaissance and target designation.
            Because in the Little Army all this was neglected. And we will sit like this until the Big Army is built. And it is being built. And our own long-range and high-precision artillery will be in commercial quantities in the spring. Because already in the series there were reports from the assembly shops of the Coalition-SV. And the production of UAVs is growing exponentially. And the production of ammunition.

            It’s sad that they realized all this only after the start of hostilities. Only the enemy doesn’t stand still either. And it won’t be any easier. We can’t storm cities, losing several thousand people each time. This means we need to come up with new tactics and strategies, like our opponents do.
  3. +13
    2 October 2023 06: 39
    In short, the infantry needs to be trained... And THEN divided into airborne or naval or simply infantry.
    1. +4
      2 October 2023 09: 24
      the infantry must be trained... And THEN divided into airborne or naval or simply infantry.

      It seems like that's what they do. Peter the Great taught the infantry to board ships and called it the Marine Corps. This is how it has been since those times.
    2. -1
      2 October 2023 12: 18
      golden army
      and it will cost more than one million for each fighter of the new assault brigades
      and also a complete set of PPE based on boron carbide now costs from 500 thousand rubles, excluding the repair kit
      and the fact that the new assault brigades will have a hodgepodge of equipment: tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers, MLRS, TOS, 152-caliber artillery and Msta with a barrel life of 3000 rounds and Hyacinth with 1000 rounds, Ka-52, Mi-28 helicopters/ 35,8,26, and also attack aircraft
      + MTO, UAV - and this is only half the trouble (rub.)
      and the main thing is that on average the Brigade staff will be inflated almost to the size of a division
      even if we count at least 6000 people for 1,5 million rubles. this is training + PPE + small arms - it’s already working out "space" 10 bn. Rub.
      but they aimed at 12 armies and 4 AKs and want to get 16 assault brigades as a result
      1. +2
        2 October 2023 14: 26
        160 billion rubles is 1,6 billion dollars at the current exchange rate. If you beat up our oligarchs, you can create at least 100 brigades. It's not a question of money. The question is people, and how soon the industry (in which there are many godfathers, sons-in-law, mistresses and other slag in responsible positions) will be able to provide such an amount of equipment and weapons. But the main question is PEOPLE! You can't buy them! They had to be raised and nurtured. Now the Youth Army, many patriotic clubs have taken up this task, and they remembered about sports and a healthy lifestyle. But I don’t know how to recruit such a force of not just physically strong, but also smart, mentally developed fighters. Generations of consumers were raised...
        1. +1
          3 October 2023 11: 22
          Here is a way to solve all problems! Let's live now! You just need to “beat up the oligarchs”...
          There was already in our history one famous “wrestler of the oligarchs” during the war. He ended very badly - he was betrayed and thrown off the throne by his close relatives and the highest military, civil and church officials who swore allegiance to him. The name of this “watterer” was Nicholas II, he was the last Russian (?) Tsar from the Romanov dynasty, “bloody” - as his contemporaries called him, and “saint”, as they recently announced to us.
      2. +2
        2 October 2023 23: 00
        Quote: Romario_Argo
        golden army

        We already went through the Little Army.
        “Compact”, “Unburdensome”... have you forgotten the 500 “Guards” parquet divisions?
        Quote: Romario_Argo
        and also a complete set of PPE based on boron carbide now costs from 500 thousand rubles, excluding the repair kit

        Due to mass production it will be cheaper.
        Quote: Romario_Argo
        and the fact that the new assault brigades will have a hodgepodge of equipment: tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers, MLRS, TOS, 152-caliber artillery and Msta with a barrel life of 3000 rounds and Hyacinth with 1000 rounds, Ka-52, Mi-28 helicopters/ 35,8,26, and also attack aircraft

        So maybe they should be sent in shorts and slippers for assaults?? We’ve already saved money... Like Nikola-2 before the REV, which was pressed by the toad to buy machine guns for the Army - “you can’t get enough cartridges for them”, NORMAL shells were squeezed for the Navy, although the equipment for their manufacture was purchased in France... And I saved on ships. .. And then, at the instigation of Witte, he grabbed 11 billion gold rubles in foreign loans alone... from the Rothschilds. Good savings?!!
        The stupidity of the upper management always costs TOO dearly.
        Fortunately, we have begun to come to our senses... but it is not yet clear from which side and for what purpose.
        Quote: Romario_Argo
        even if we count at least 6000 people for 1,5 million rubles. this is training + PPE + small arms - this already turns out to be “space” of 10 billion rubles.

        Eh, you accountants x...... I counted 6000 billion dollars for a brigade of 1,6 elite attack aircraft. and... burst into tears. And the fact that your Nabiulina in one fell swoop is 300+ billion dollars. about...fukala, isn't it a pity??! Six annual military budgets of pre-war Russia?! Are you going to salt your money offshore again? When is the Budget filled with a surplus both last year and this year?!
        Also complain that the Ministry of Defense has ordered so many tanks that they have to resume production of the T-80 in Omsk. Whine that they are using up “too many” shells in the Northern Military District and losing equipment in battles... After all, “Rynochek” has brought up “unique snowflakes.”
        And I’ll add that Heavy Assault Brigades require TBTR and TBMP, plus BMPT and assault self-propelled guns with a high level of protection. And in order to get them quickly, it is necessary to recycle old tanks from storage in TBTR and TBMP. Those that will not go into modernization are all T-64, early versions of T-80 and T-72, T-55. At tank repair plants, modeled on the Kharkov TBTR-55 and TBTR-64. Because if you arm attack aircraft with light armored vehicles, the result will be nothing but stupidity, and the losses will be unjustified.
        At our storage bases we have about 3000 T-72s, about 2000 T-80 early models that will not be modernized, at least 2500 T-64s, which also will not be returned to service due to the lack of engines and spare parts for them, and order 1500 T-55. So, based on their chassis and hulls, make BMPT (in the BMPT-72 version), TBTR and TBMP, and possibly assault self-propelled guns with 152 mm. a weapon of moderate ballistics, for fire support from the near rear and the destruction of fortifications with direct fire. In war, every bast must be in a line.
        1. +1
          3 October 2023 22: 21
          Quote: bayard
          When is the Budget filled with a surplus both last year and this year?!

          The budget, by the way, became deficit, and Russia suffered the same fate as all modern countries - the national debt began to grow. They say that it either exists or is expected to reach 17% of GDP in the near future. Far from Chinese, Japanese, American and European indicators, but still...
          And one and a half billion dollars for a brigade is somehow really too much. 30 brigades - and the entire defense budget of Russia up to the Northern Military District is covered. But there’s still a lot of stuff there... Yes, I understand that so many of them are unlikely to be needed, but just to make it clear that at such prices a little less than 200 soldiers are capable of gobbling up far from the smallest defense budget.
          Quote: bayard
          Also complain that the Ministry of Defense has ordered so many tanks that they have to resume production of the T-80 in Omsk. Whine that they are using up “too many” shells in the Northern Military District and losing equipment in battles... After all, “Rynochek” has brought up “unique snowflakes.”

          The point is not the snowflakes, but the fact that our economy is not enough for a really large army capable of confronting the armies of NATO countries in an open conflict. It’s worth at least saying that there are a billion people living in NATO, and we have 150 million (I don’t know how many there are with the new regions and Ukrainian refugees, minus those who fled from mobilization and behind employers, but conditionally, let it be so). The only way to do anything with them is to create the threat of nuclear destruction and achieve technical superiority in the field of strategic weapons. Which, according to our government, was done! Alas, our political leadership has still not been able to take advantage of its advantages, instead being drawn, apparently, into the creation of a large army, which, in my opinion and as already written above, our economy will not support. If only at the expense of the already far from the best social sphere. But then we will simply face an internal protest in a few years, that’s all.
          Snowflakes are not snowflakes, but they are what they are. The Union, they say, also collapsed in pursuit of jeans and chewing gum instead of the world's best missiles and the largest tank troops.
          1. +1
            4 October 2023 15: 48
            Quote: Plate
            The budget, by the way, has become deficit

            At the beginning of the year, when there were many advance payments for military orders. By the middle of the year the situation leveled off, and then budget revenues confidently exceeded expenses. So by now there is no longer any budget deficit, and by the end of the year there will be a confident surplus again. Although, to be completely honest, a budget surplus (especially a chronic one) is also bad - it is simply sterilization of money and curbing economic growth. The ideal budget is balanced to zero. And if a surplus arises, then you should immediately look for an area of ​​application of this resource to ensure economic growth and eliminate import dependence.
            You should also remember and realize that 25.02.2022/40/100. V.V. Putin officially and on camera announced the termination of the IMF’s “Budget Rule” on the territory of the Russian Federation (according to which all proceeds from oil revenues over 150 dollars were sterilized in the so-called “Reserve Funds” and were not available to the budget and investments within the country... And if previously, even in such conditions, the Russian budget still had a surplus of 40 - 250 billion dollars every year, then last year the budget surplus (which was calculated at the rate of XNUMX dollars per barrel) received a surplus as much as XNUMX billion dollars!
            Did you rate the numbers?
            This year the Budget was calculated at the rate of 60 dollars. per barrel, therefore the SIZE of the budget this year is significantly larger than that adopted last year. But the price of Russian oil has already exceeded not only 60 dollars. , but even the heavy (main) Urals variety (Ural mixture) is trading at no lower than $86. per barrel. And the light Arctic variety comes with a premium to the Brent price - over $100.
            Aren't you tired?
            This is about filling the budget and overloading it with military spending. Just realize that with a pre-war military budget of approximately $56 billion. Every year the Russian Federation had at least (actually more) 100 billion dollars in its budget. "extra" money. Last year, even with all the “sanctions from Hell,” there was already over $250 billion in “extra money.”
            We could, without much difficulty and overloading the budget, have a military budget before the North Military District that was THREE times larger, and in the past and this year - FIVE times larger than the boring $56 billion.
            Did you appreciate the beauty of the situation?
            But that's not all. In the same speech dated 25.02.2022/52/40. Putin said that the Russian economy is extremely under-monetized. He named the figure 95%, which, according to a number of serious experts, is a somewhat inflated figure; the real monetization of the domestic economy was at the level of 100% or a little more. And this is with a MONETIZATION RATE of 70 - XNUMX%!!! He then set the task of pre-monetization of the economy to the level of XNUMX% (first stage) ... by the end of the decade - that is, smoothly. This is very good and correct. But there is a question - HOW, in what way to carry out this pre-monetization. If through the banking sector, then the effect will be wave-like, because it will increase the credit supply, but loans must be repaid, and the main share of profits will be withdrawn... request banks And they already live VERY well - at our credit rates.
            But there is another way - direct government financing of the economy through the State Order. And not only in the form of loans and direct investments in shares of enterprises, but through Direct Orders for ... infrastructure programs, the purchase of goods and equipment for budget-funded enterprises and (drum roll) the most effective - INCREASE IN THE MILITARY BUDGET and expenditure items of the Closed Budget ( As a rule, these are military developments, R&D, financing the development of the defense complex).
            Why is military spending the most optimal way to pre-monetize the Economy? Yes, because defense enterprises receive money for an extended order of their products, do not pay interest rates on loans to banks and can invest these funds themselves in their own development. And through cooperation chains and through wages, this money spreads throughout all pores of the domestic Economy and includes a powerful growth multiplier... in all related industries and in the consumer market (and therefore in industries producing consumer goods. Moreover, in this case, economic growth will be even slightly ahead of the volumes of such injections, ahead by up to two times! It’s just that over the course of a year these funds will be able to turn around several times in a variety of sectors of the economy and lead to natural growth of the economy by twice the amount of these injections.
            Do you know what I mean?
            Russia has no problems financing current military expenditures and increasing the size and equipment of the Army. On the contrary, an increase in the military budget by several times will lead to a natural growth of the Economy as a whole and, accordingly, to an increase in tax returns to the budget. The budget will begin to swell even faster and all these funds can be spent on social needs, infrastructure development, new production (and in the Russian Federation there is a huge deficit of its own production), Education, and increasing salaries for public sector employees. And if you keep your own financial institutions under control, so that they don’t play “king of the hill” and don’t profit from fluctuations in the exchange rate of their own currency, and also don’t raise lending rates, Russia, without much difficulty and distortions, crises and overheating of the economy, maybe in 10 years double your GDP... and in the future ensure its annual growth at a minimum of 4-5%. In reality - more.
            But for this we need a Sovereign Financial System. And this is more complicated than it seems to the untrained eye. But it's definitely worth it.
            Quote: Plate
            The national debt began to rise. They say that either there is or is expected to be 17% of GDP soon

            This is minuscule. Moreover, it is a meaningless minuscule amount. And it was formed (and it was approximately at this level) not because of the needs of the state (with such annual chronic surpluses), but because of... the desire to provide additional profit... to banks. Not without the personal interest of officials.
            Quote: Plate
            at these prices, just under 200 fighters are capable of gobbling up far from the smallest defense budget.

            You are thinking in the wrong place again. and not even those numbers. So now most of the tanks are supplied to the troops not manufactured from scratch, but after the modernization of vehicles taken from storage bases. And the most sophisticated modernization of such a tank (T-72B3M and T-80BVM) costs no more than 1 million dollars. at the current rate. And the cost of a tank assembled from scratch with such mass production... is reduced. Well, I already said where the money for this comes from.
            Quote: Plate
            there are a billion people living in NATO, and we have 150 million (I don’t know how many there are with the new regions and Ukrainian refugees, minus those who fled mobilization and behind employers, but conditionally let it be so)

            The current population of the Russian Federation is estimated at approximately 156 million people. Excluding migrant workers, refugees and other guests.
            Yes, the difference in numbers and total industrial potential is great... but this only indicates the real and hidden potential of Russia. Just think - so many sanctions have been imposed on us that we can’t think of anything else, but instead of collapse, the Russian Economy is... GROWING! And this was during the bloodiest war since the Second World War and WWII. what And this is if we consider NATO+ on the one hand, and ONLY Russia on the other hand. What if we count our allies too? smile Well, just for the purity of the experiment? And everything immediately becomes “not at all clear.” Moreover, Russia has all the necessary resources, primarily energy and raw materials... and military-industrial, because we are considering a military confrontation and a confrontation between military economies. In addition, our military equipment and weapons cost us several times cheaper (about 5 times), with comparable or even better quality and combat capabilities.
            For example, the Tomahawk cruise missile today costs about 2 mln for the United States. dollars , and our “Caliber” even in 2012-2013. cost the RF Ministry of Defense about 400 thousand dollars. But since then, due to the mass production and the payback of fixed assets, the cost (and in our country the cost of weapons is driven by the cost) has probably decreased by another 20 - 25%.
            Quote: Plate
            create a threat of nuclear destruction, achieve technical superiority in the field of strategic weapons. Which, according to our government, was done! Alas, our political leadership has still not been able to take advantage of its advantages.

            Our strategic nuclear forces are truly head and shoulders above American ones, despite their numerical parity. But the framework agreements are no longer in force and the last of them will naturally die in 2025. So nothing will stop us from increasing the number of our own strategic nuclear forces, citing the fact that the previous agreement did not take into account the strategic nuclear forces of England and France. And the overall numerical and conventional superiority of NATO over the Russian Federation obliges.
        2. 0
          4 October 2023 09: 17
          in general, if we count more fully, the Brigade will cost over 350 billion rubles
          5 battalion sets of 108 infantry fighting vehicles and 72 armored personnel carriers = 97 billion + 21 billion = 118 billion rubles.
          1 tank battalion 40-46 = 10 billion
          and if there are also 24 Mi-8AMTSh helicopters + 12 Ka-52 = 12 billion + 6 billion = almost 20 billion
          already at least 150 billion rubles. for 1 Brigade
          and also MLRS, TOS, self-propelled guns, BREM, IMR, IRM, etc.
          and they want 16
          1. +2
            4 October 2023 16: 40
            Quote: Romario_Argo
            in general, if we count more fully, the Brigade will cost over 350 billion rubles

            Roman, read my post above, there are many answers there where and how the money comes from. In addition, do not forget that all military expenses when purchasing weapons from a domestic manufacturer are not just expenses, but INVESTMENTS in the domestic defense industry and all related sectors of the economy, including the consumer market for production and consumption. All this money will remain inside the economy and will work for its development, launching animation mechanisms. Study the experience of the United States - they have always crawled out of crises through wars and military spending. Just remember about Raganomics, when after the monstrous failure of the Vietnam War, when the United States was almost threatened with civil war, it was simply pulled out of the crisis with horse-drawn military budgets. Study the mechanisms of these processes and maybe then you will understand why the United States is still trying to restart its own Industry through military orders... And why they are not succeeding. And why does this work for us? Just read more carefully.
            Quote: Romario_Argo
            1 tank battalion 40-46 = 10 billion

            what What if these are T-72B3M and T-80BVM tanks? Modernization of which, even in the most advanced version of modernization, costs no more than $1 million. at the current rate?
            Quote: Romario_Argo
            and if there are also 24 Mi-8AMTSh helicopters + 12 Ka-52 = 12 billion + 6 billion = almost 20 billion

            This is already a combined helicopter regiment or even a brigade, if you add PSS helicopters and a Mi-35 squadron (and this is mandatory). And this regiment, as part of a combined arms army or corps, will definitely perform tasks not only to provide and support the assault brigade.
            War in general is an expensive thing, but we still need a peacetime army of about 2 million people. Simply because the idea of ​​the Small Army failed miserably. But having SUCH an Army allows you to solve geopolitical problems of any complexity. And this is already realized. Therefore, not only the RF Armed Forces are being increased numerically, but also the number of Army Aviation and the number (and strength) of fighter and bomber regiments of the Aerospace Forces will be increased significantly. This process is already underway. Because the Northern Military District has shown that we have a very serious shortage of combat aviation.
            Shall we shed a tear about this too?
            Or will we be happy for our aircraft manufacturing industry that it now has a lot of orders, that they are expanding production, expanding staff, and increasing salaries?
            The power and significance of any power is judged by the capabilities of its Army, Navy and Aviation. So the Fleet also needs to be built. and build quickly, with high quality, relying on large series of ships of the same type.
            What is this Fleet for?
            To ensure freedom of navigation for our Merchant/Commercial Fleet. which already exists (including the so-called Shadow) and is actively being built. And in order to co-finance the construction and maintenance of such a Navy, it is necessary to establish State Insurance Companies, and through them, co-finance the construction of the Navy and its basic infrastructure. This is what most great naval powers do. And this is what the great Admiral Gorshkov, the creator of the Soviet Ocean-class Navy, bequeathed to us to do. If you are not familiar, read the “Gorshkov Doctrine”. This is already and is considered a classic.
            So don’t worry - the State has money for military expenses. Please read my post above carefully.
    3. -1
      2 October 2023 15: 24
      How much can you teach ordinary infantry? Ordinary infantry, that is, motorized rifles, at least in Soviet times, are young people recruited according to very specific parameters. Their height was approximately 170-175 cm, and the driver mechanics were even smaller. The selection there was carried out on a residual basis; those who were not suitable for either the Airborne Forces or the Marine Corps were recruited.
      How are you going to train them to move in heavy and bulky body armor, with an equally heavy load on themselves? Even the equipment, even that of motorized riflemen, is cramped, with narrow openings, not suitable for heavily and voluminously equipped special forces soldiers and attack aircraft, respectively.
      1. 0
        2 October 2023 16: 29
        Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
        Even the equipment, even that of motorized riflemen, is cramped, with narrow openings

        Maybe we shouldn’t carry such nonsense? Otherwise, you can poke your nose into the very “wide” openings of the same BMDs, do you know what it is?
        1. +1
          2 October 2023 17: 31
          That's why Typhoons were specially designed for attack aircraft.
          see photo above.
      2. +4
        3 October 2023 05: 55
        Special forces soldiers, in their physical parameters, were always not much different from those who ended up in motorized rifle units. Exactly the same applies to military intelligence.
        The most ordinary boys, height around 170-175 cm, maximum 180.
        But in the Airborne Forces and MP, yes, there were always healthy moose, height from 180 cm and certainly not dead, but highly desirable with a strong constitution.
        While in the Special Forces and in intelligence such big men are completely unnecessary, on the contrary they always recruited the wiry and hardy ones.
      3. 0
        3 October 2023 11: 31
        Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
        Due to mass production it will be cheaper.

        It won't be cheaper. This is a false paradigm: in a capitalist society, in a completely non-competitive market, in conditions of growing demand, not a single product ever becomes cheaper!
        “Which financial college did you graduate from?” (C)
  4. +4
    2 October 2023 07: 38
    But it is necessary to get rid of the practice of inappropriate use of parts and connections.
    So no one argues with this. It’s just that from the beginning of the Northern Military District, the situation and the situation forced us to do what the author writes about. Now understanding has come, followed by a reorganization of the participation of units of various types of troops in certain types of combat. But still, everyone must professionally be able, if necessary, to both defend and attack.
  5. +3
    2 October 2023 07: 47
    Or maybe recruit “new citizens of the country” into stormtroopers? There will soon be more of them than us, at least one of them went to fight? And there are fewer and fewer Slavs. Recruit locusts, train them and go ahead, they understand each other, they are behind each other, so go ahead.
    1. +1
      2 October 2023 14: 30
      Yeah. And immediately put up detachments for security. So that they don’t engage in looting and run away, leaving the front.
  6. +6
    2 October 2023 08: 36
    Quote: Vadim S
    Or maybe recruit “new citizens of the country” into stormtroopers? There will soon be more of them than us, at least one of them went to fight? And there are fewer and fewer Slavs. Recruit locusts, train them and go ahead, they understand each other, they are behind each other, so go ahead.


    Since October 1943, representatives of local nationalities from all republics except the RSFSR, Ukrainian SSR and BSSR were not mobilized. It is not right to distribute weapons to the “Tajik-Russians” - Soloti proved this; the situation when the traditional peoples of the Russian Federation are fighting but the migrants are not is not normal.
    The solution is simple: suitcase - station - Dushanbe for all families in which men did not register with the military immediately after receiving citizenship (this is approximately 9/10) and those families who have a low official income and receive child benefits as low-income ( this is also 9/10).
  7. +4
    2 October 2023 08: 41
    We must turn to history. During the operation in East Prussia during the assault on Koenigsberg, assault groups were prepared and trained in advance. Which carried out the main work of breaking through the defense during the capture of Koenigsberg.
    1. -2
      3 October 2023 11: 50
      Exactly, we need to turn to history. The Russian heavy boyar cavalry won the Battle of Kulikovo, which means we urgently need to find heavy boyars and horses, put the first on the second, and victory will be ours...
      Almost 80 years have passed since the capture of Königsberg, during which time many interesting events and important scientific discoveries have taken place, such as space flights and the invention of attack drones, and are you seriously proposing to use “historical” approaches and methods in a military conflict?
  8. +1
    2 October 2023 08: 48
    As far as I remember, in our country there were engineering assault units, somewhere even before the war they tried to recreate an engineering assault brigade and not mix scouts with attack aircraft
    1. +3
      2 October 2023 16: 22
      Quote: Sergei Lyakhovsky
      As far as I remember, there were engineering assault units in our country

      In WWII there were two types of assault units.
      The first type is regular specialized attack aircraft. Represented by the well-known scientists - sapper engineers + chemists.
      The second type is line infantry assault groups. Freelance formations, assembled each time for a specific task from what is currently available in the division. Moreover, the practice of forming permanent infantry assault groups was not welcomed, because these groups quite significantly weakened the units from which they separated. For divisions with five thousand troops, already one assault group per regiment significantly squandered the capabilities of the remaining infantry.
      1. +1
        2 October 2023 21: 43
        Quote: Alexey RA
        The second type is line infantry assault groups. Freelance formations, assembled each time for a specific task from what is currently available in the division. Moreover, the practice of forming permanent infantry assault groups was not welcomed, because these groups quite significantly weakened the units from which they separated.

        Alexey Isaev writes something completely different about this. Assault groups became a means that was taken into account on a par with tanks.
        The regiments created assault detachments based on the rifle battalion. In battalions, assault groups consisted of a rifle company, a sapper platoon, a flamethrower squad, a chemist squad, two guns and two or three tanks.
        Quote: Alexey RA
        For divisions with five thousand troops, already one assault group per regiment significantly squandered the capabilities of the remaining infantry.

        This assault group did not in any way weaken the capabilities of the remaining infantry. On the contrary, the task of such a group is to be a “needle” that breaks through the enemy’s defenses, dragging behind it like a “thread” the rest of the units and army units.
  9. -6
    2 October 2023 08: 59
    I join those readers who demand that the administration put the name of the aftra in the title of the article. Let Staver already write advertisements, or better yet, take a shovel and go to work. I got tired of advertising for Wagner, a unit of mercenaries which, in principle, could not solve any serious problems without the help of the army , in fire support and supplies. Mercenaries have never won a war anywhere.
  10. +7
    2 October 2023 09: 45
    Author, before talking about Soviet airborne guns, it was necessary to at least clarify what they are. I started my officer service in the 11th Airborne Brigade. It included not only transport, but also combat helicopter regiments. So the list of helicopters is not only Mi-6, but also Mi-8, Mi-24. The helicopters not only carried out deliveries, but also provided fire support for the brigade battalions.
    Yes, parachute jumps were carried out, but it was more like an “optional”, the main method of delivery was landing, that’s what helicopters are for.
  11. +4
    2 October 2023 10: 08
    Regarding these planned reconnaissance and assault brigades:
    “We will come up with anything, but we WILL NOT train line infantry!!!
    ...in what world could they see an infantryman for whom combat in a trench system (trenches, buildings, bunkers and bunkers) is not the primary environment for life and death?
    Well, in addition to explaining the mathematical riddle:
    Let’s say that the defense (offensive) line of the N-th combined arms army is 100 km ... we will assume that this army is a real Army, a full-fledged operational formation from a textbook.
    This Army includes a reconnaissance and assault brigade, numbering 1.
    Attention, that same mathematical riddle: What is the width of its stripe in these 100 km?
    And without waiting for an answer:
    1. Are there no trenches, field fortifications, or urbanized areas on the remaining kilometers?
    2. Does the Rshbr have its own offensive (defense) zone, or are there different and perhaps even disobedient commanders within the same kilometers?
    3. Let’s assume that the Rshbr broke through the enemy’s defenses on a front 3-5 km wide. What's next? Are we increasing our efforts by brigades (divisions) of the second echelon, whose personnel do not need to be trained to fight in trenches, buildings, bunkers and bunkers?”
    (C)
    1. +4
      2 October 2023 16: 26
      Quote: Ryazanets87
      Attention, that same mathematical riddle: What is the width of its stripe in these 100 km?

      The answer is none. smile
      The Shisbr does not have its own band and is assigned to strengthen units operating in the direction of the main attack. Because without line infantry, following the attack aircraft and supporting them with their “group and heavy” troops, the Shibr cannot fully fight.
  12. -5
    2 October 2023 10: 53
    Another lover of the psycho Prigozhin posted his rant. Where do you come from, where do you know what is happening there, you are not there.
  13. +5
    2 October 2023 11: 13
    A battalion for attack, a battalion for defense, a battalion for reconnaissance, a battalion for fighting during the day, a battalion for fighting at night, and the remaining half a million people are decoration. Special forces are good and necessary, of course, but still the very purpose of creating such “advanced” formations is to increase the overall effectiveness of the army, and not to completely replace it and write off the infantry as guards. It seems that the unhealthy fascination with ideas about cutting the army down to the gendarmerie with highly specialized inclusions has already passed, and here again the same rake: let the uncle work while the corps stands on the sidelines and does not understand anything because all his knowledge and skills are aimed at maintaining his own perhaps a more inconspicuous existence in peacetime.
    1. 0
      2 October 2023 22: 41
      You are basing your thoughts on the author’s erroneous judgments, and yes, armies have many specialized units, because war is difficult, extremely difficult.
  14. -1
    2 October 2023 12: 53
    Of course, I didn’t serve in the armies and I don’t understand anything. but a real war turns out to show that large and deep specialization is evil. everyone will still mix up and do the same thing. maybe it’s time to realize this and just train the infantry like the queen of the fields???
    maybe it’s time to revolve around her, artillery and aviation help her in attack and defense. where is the breakthrough? there mobile infantry with anti-tank guns, mortars, spotters in support, until the reserve approaches with tanks and infantry fighting vehicles. questions on the water? in Port? on rivers and bridges? let the Marines sort it out with their love of liquids :-) problems in the mountains? mountain infantry with carbines, skis and cables and so on. scouts? let them scan around the rear areas and aim the KR and UAB using Glonass, collect data, shoot the enemy generals and mine the enemy rear areas. but all this is support and assistance to the infantry, and not a replacement for it. she can handle the rest, just teach, supply and help.
    something like this.
    1. 0
      2 October 2023 15: 35
      Have you tried running with a PC, or at least carried it on the way to the PTK training ground? If not, and did not serve, then why do you insist so persistently on the harm of specialization?
      For me, carrying a PC and PKT did not cause any particular difficulties, except that I got rid of the machine gun, but not everyone succeeded in doing this for a long time and over long distances.
      1. 0
        3 October 2023 14: 47
        Not used to carrying heavy things, so what? what's the point in your answer? crew crew 2 people. like they're dragging it around now. In general, in the army there are a lot of all sorts of heavy things that soldiers have to carry on themselves.
        In short, what did you want to say?
    2. -1
      2 October 2023 22: 48
      An electrician can also fix plumbing, but here it’s better to specialize, and the army is more difficult, much more difficult.
      1. 0
        3 October 2023 14: 50
        I don’t deny specialization; in fact, this is stated in my comment. I just cheer for a more numerous, more versatile, more trained and self-sufficient infantry. and specialists as help, and not as replacement, so that the airborne forces are not then equipped with tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and heavy self-propelled guns.
  15. +2
    2 October 2023 12: 56
    DSBs were precisely part of motorized rifle corps and armies. Although they often wore airborne uniforms.

    I don’t remember wearing an Airborne Forces uniform...
    The Kutai brigade wore a regular “infantry” uniform with red shoulder straps in the 70s of the last century...
    ---
    It's all about the tasks! The DSBs were indeed assault formations. And they worked at a short distance from the LBS. As far as I remember, up to 150 km. Accordingly, their task was to help the motorized rifles in the offensive. They landed in the area of ​​the enemy's fortified area, took it by storm and held out until the main forces of the army or corps arrived.

    Where do these “memories” come from... :)
    From what charter?
    Here I have completely different ones: the ShB were intended to “cleanse” NPs (cities)...
    Those. linear units bypassed the OP, took it into the cauldron, and stormtroopers cleared it...
    The “stormtroopers” themselves appeared in the Second World War: assault engineering brigades of the reserve of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief formed prefabricated brigades of specially trained fighters, were issued the appropriate equipment and ammunition (up to cuirasses), etc. ..
    This is how Koenigsberg was taken...

    1. -1
      2 October 2023 13: 45
      assault engineer brigades of the reserve of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief - formed prefabricated brigades from specially trained fighters,

      Unfortunately, you have idealized ideas about the composition and practice of using SISB. And Koenigsberg was taken a little differently.
    2. 0
      2 October 2023 15: 00
      Motorized riflemen in Afghanistan sometimes dabbled and wore vests. They were worn by those who could get it and who did not have to pay anything for it.
  16. +1
    2 October 2023 13: 53
    The military operation showed the need to have specialized units for storming fortified areas


    The First World War also showed this.
  17. +1
    2 October 2023 14: 43
    There is a strange message in the article, now in every fighting regiment or brigade of the Russian Armed Forces, Storm assault detachments have been created from volunteer military personnel or Storm Z from volunteer prisoners, they are focused on assaulting fortified positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, these are the heirs of the engineering and sapper assault brigades of the Red Army during the Second World War
    1. 0
      2 October 2023 22: 49
      not even close heirs, common yes, but something completely different.
  18. -2
    2 October 2023 18: 58
    In WWII, the Germans focused on stormtroopers and other special forces, and when the frenzy subsided, it turned out that this was a mistake - everything combat-ready ended up in assault divisions, numbering at least a third of the army, and the level of the rest of the army sank due to the removal of the best fighters and equipment. The result is that the majority are incapable of combat due to their low level, the best cannot do anything due to their small numbers.

    The Shisbr of the Red Army, which every second commentator here recalls, is madness and without artillery, mortars, heavy machine guns, anti-tank weapons, besides the poor anti-tank guns, there was 0 point 0 sense of the Red attack aircraft. Another case from domestic practice, when a mountain gave birth to a mouse.
    1. 0
      5 December 2023 18: 36
      Can you tell me more about the birth of a mouse? and preferably with examples - when were the ShISBr used without artillery support and the rest?
  19. +1
    2 October 2023 21: 13
    The author does not understand the essence, nature and types of modern combined arms combat.
  20. 0
    2 October 2023 22: 33
    "Stormtroopers must attack." Well, I suggest we immediately start growing stormtroopers in test tubes. Seriously, how and at what expense can we now recruit personnel there? And in peacetime everything will turn into profanation, as with the tank guards.
    1. 0
      2 October 2023 22: 55
      In general, you compare warm with soft; comparing Sturm z with guards is a big mistake.
  21. +1
    3 October 2023 01: 15
    We're going to reinvent the wheel again). It has long been possible to turn motorized rifles into universal motorized infantry, simply taking the experience of the US Army as a basis and not invent anything. But it’s better, of course, to sing hymns in honor of the elite). Just as large military formations were needed in extensive theaters of operations, trained, it turned out that the motorized rifles could not do anything, because they did not know, no one trained them or prepared them for such operations, I am silent about the equipment and equipment that was obtained on a residual basis. There is no respect for infantry in our country.
  22. 0
    3 October 2023 05: 27
    Quote: bayard
    And each airborne division must have an air assault brigade, or at least a regiment to conduct this kind of operation. And precisely for landing by helicopters in the near rear to capture and hold key infrastructure, transport, etc.
    But the main striking force of the RF Armed Forces should be the Heavy Assault Brigades. With emphasis on the word - HEAVY.
    hi

    Can there be no air assault brigade as part of the Airborne Forces?
    Airborne divisions are one thing, but air assault brigades are something completely different.
    And the Airborne Forces should have both airborne forces and separate air assault brigades. The airborne assault brigade, in turn, is armed with heavier equipment (for example, the BMP-3M Manul, and not the BMD-4M, which are used by airborne divisions) and, accordingly, tanks. And also, including in their composition, they must have a separate air squadron, with transport and attack helicopters, like the Ka-52 and Mi-28.
    The Marine Corps should also be completely reorganized into air assault divisions and separate air assault brigades, naturally increasing their composition and strength.
    As for the “main striking force” on the battlefield of the RF Armed Forces, then it is necessary to reorganize all motorized rifle and tank divisions into heavy infantry/tank shock-assault divisions - TPUSD and TTUSD, respectively. Which, in turn, need to be equipped with new heavy equipment: T-14, T-15, Coalition-SV self-propelled guns and all other necessary latest equipment.
    In parallel with assault divisions, it is also not worth abandoning lighter mechanized infantry, i.e. motorized riflemen. Which need to be consolidated into separate motorized rifle brigades and, accordingly, equipped with lighter equipment, such as the Kurganets-25 BMP and the K-17 Boomerang BMP, including T-90M tanks.
    And in the same way, create several separate tank brigades, which, unlike heavy tank shock divisions, are equipped not with T-14s, but with T-90Ms. This is roughly how I see the modernization of our army.
  23. +1
    3 October 2023 08: 01
    An interesting and controversial note, as are some of the comments to it. In general, everything was as always - it was smooth on paper, but they forgot about the ravines. In the conditions of a “small” army, we need large numbers of “rapid deployment units/airmobile troops” of different orientations/specializations. Since some argue that the task of the Airborne Forces is landings and raids, then in conditions when mass parachute landings to the rear are almost impossible, this branch of troops must be reduced or repurposed. Leave the name, but prepare for other tasks. As part of the Pen Dostan army there is a cavalry division that has only seen horses in the movies :)
  24. +2
    3 October 2023 09: 04
    Quote: squid
    then for Russia, with a ground army of 200 thousand, to keep 50-70 thousand in marines and paratroopers looked rather anecdotal. not to mention the fleet, so beloved on this site, which predictably turned out to be completely secondary to the real threats to our country.

    The decision has long been posed to simply start preparing and supplying conventional troops well.
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. +2
    8 October 2023 11: 05
    Our teacher, a participant in the Second World War, said this: “after good artillery training, a German sits in a trench, stupefied, and his ears are leaking. And it’s a pity to even pin him with a bayonet.”

    Storming is when there is not enough heavy equipment. And this deficiency is compensated by the lives of the soldiers.

    I don’t know how many large calibers we have, but it seems that there are fewer of them than during the Second World War they were deployed along 1 km of the front during the offensive.
  27. 0
    8 October 2023 11: 37
    The experience of major wars has shown a pattern in the emergence of tactical nuclear weapons: it allows one to solve offensive problems without concentrating a gigantic number of large-caliber guns in a small area.

    That’s why we don’t have the required number of barrels today. Russia is not up to its strengths with guns and nuclear weapons and bread and butter.

    But no need to worry laughing
    Today's military actions are just a prelude to the war into which the World is gradually being drawn. Well, when it starts for real, everything will come in accordance with the previously created theory......
    1. 0
      9 October 2023 10: 35
      Neither in construction, nor in production, nor in medicine, nor in education, nor anywhere are there universal specialists capable of performing any work equally successfully; only narrow specialists can be successful (general workers do not count) and the army must also consist of narrow specialists in type of operations being performed, it follows that since there are assault operations, there must also be attack aircraft
    2. 0
      9 October 2023 10: 35
      Neither in construction, nor in production, nor in medicine, nor in education, nor anywhere are there universal specialists capable of performing any work equally successfully; only narrow specialists can be successful (general workers do not count) and the army must also consist of narrow specialists in type of operations being performed, it follows that since there are assault operations, there must also be attack aircraft
  28. TIR
    0
    10 October 2023 23: 08
    Assault engineering teams are needed. And with special weapons. So that they could choose - to pierce the wall in the house with a charge and walk through the gap, or to demolish the house and walk through the rubble. Moreover, there should be more explosives per fighter than his weight. To create not just weapons for breaches in walls, but, following the example of a self-digger of a trench, to create special ammunition of tandem action, when the first charge breaks through the wall, and the second, passing the wall, explodes behind the wall. Create communications for group commanders and an aerial image for the squad commander. Also the ability to use artillery. We don't have such special forces
    1. 0
      5 December 2023 18: 39
      troops - no, formation - yes
      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/1-я_гвардейская_инженерно-сапёрная_бригада
      exactly what you described
      but I haven’t heard of its use [at least for gaining combat experience] in the Northern Military District
  29. 0
    1 January 2024 13: 47
    In the distant 70s I served in the Pskov Airborne Division. Then I graduated from military school, but that doesn't matter. The important thing is that even then, during my youth and now, my attitude towards the defense of my Motherland has not changed.