ATACMS: a big problem for Russia or not?

193
ATACMS: a big problem for Russia or not?

We have already talked more than once about how gifts from NATO can become serious (or not) problems for us. Yes, for all of us, or at least the overwhelming majority, because in addition to the fact that many have relatives, friends and acquaintances in the Northern Military District, these gifts also systematically and regularly arrive in the European part.

During these discussions, it was said that the ballistic missiles of the Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS) could still go to Ukraine. And now it has happened, but it should be noted that the main attention was paid to the options for this weapons, equipped with unitary (single high-explosive) warheads. And the other day it became known that versions with cluster munitions will reach Ukraine, which, according to many experts, can create a number of serious complications for Russian troops.



ATACMS, the US short-range ballistic missile, is not an innovative weapon. The missile is not new; development began in 1982, and it was put into service in 1991. The missile is produced in two main versions, with a high-explosive fragmentation warhead and a cassette warhead.

The first two variants of the MGM-140A ATACMS Block 1 and Block 1A were cluster munitions loaded with 950 and 275-300 submunitions with a maximum range of 165 kilometers and 300 kilometers, respectively. These two missiles are known as MGM-140A and B, Block I and IA, and M39 and M39A1.


Composite image of ATACMS ejecting a payload of warheads from cassettes

Later versions of ATACMS that entered service are equipped with unitary warheads. These missiles are designated MGM-140E and MGM-168As, Block IVA, and M48s and M57, based on differences in fuses and other internal components. However, they all have the same 227 kg high-explosive fragmentation warhead, the same one used in the Harpoon anti-ship missile.

However, there is one big difference. It consists of the Harpoon crashing into a target at subsonic speeds, and the ATACMS doing the same at near hypersonic speeds, which converts the missile's massive kinetic energy and transfers it to the target, allowing it to successfully destroy hardened targets. All these ATACMS have a maximum range of 300 kilometers.


All types of ATACMS missiles can be launched from M270 tracked Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) launchers and wheeled M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) launchers. Both chassis are already in service with the Ukrainian army.

A year and a half ago, when the NWO began, sending cluster munitions to Ukraine seemed an unlikely possibility, but a precedent had already been set by the delivery of many thousands of cluster artillery shells from US reserve stocks. The first of these munitions arrived in July after a long period of internal debate within the Biden administration. The shells were seen as a way to dramatically expand Ukraine's access to 155mm artillery ammunition of any kind to support its counteroffensive and bring new effects to the battlefield in an attempt to break through fortified Russian lines. So the debate about transferring cluster munitions to Ukraine is over in its favor.

Some of the US M39/A1 ATACMS variants of cluster munitions have been converted into versions with HE warheads. Changes in precision-guided weapon capabilities and the controversy over cluster munitions, along with changes in combined arms tactics, have spurred attention to unitary warhead models. For Ukraine, the ability to strike across areas nearly 300 kilometers away and to do so with a delivery system that is very difficult to defend (hypersonic speed at the end point) represents serious problems that the Ukrainian side could cause for Russia.


For Ukraine, which has been intensively begging for ATACMS for months, the ability to deliver a 227-kg warhead over long distances would mean big problems for Russia's critical logistics hubs and associated infrastructure such as bridges and fortified command and control centers located far behind the front line. However, the cluster version poses a great threat to vehicle fleets, ammunition depots and especially air defense systems and aircraft at airfields.

One M39A1 ATACMS, equipped with GPS and inertial navigation, carries approximately 300 M74 submunitions. The missile spins to stabilize its flight during its final attack, releasing the payload bay covers and centrifugal force causing the bombs to fly in a curved path. The size of the ATACMS effect area and bomb density can be changed by setting different release heights.

The baseball-like M74 is a nasty weapon. It is equipped with a high explosive charge inside this irregular sphere. The asymmetrical design imparts rotation to the firing element during release. As soon as the rotation speed reaches 2 rpm, its fuse is activated. Hundreds of M400s falling almost simultaneously create a cloud of debris that covers the ground. The weapon is considered highly effective against personnel and lightly armored targets.


Diagram showing the components of the M39 ATACMS, including the M74 submunitions inside.


Example of an M74 submunition

The Americans rightly note that, in principle, a pair of ATACMS could solve many problems, for example, releasing them at the Russian air base in Crimea and destroying all the aircraft in the parking lots. None of the aircraft were parked in fortified hangars or under any cover at all, so the losses could have been quite significant. Anything that is explosive or flammable will explode, creating severe secondary effects.

Of course, such tactics would be no less effective than the use of long-range unmanned aerial vehicles or remotely controlled drones-kamikazes for striking individual aircraft, not to mention sabotage teams that must physically place explosives on their targets. Yes, and losses in their aviation from barrage fire may be unprecedented.

“Air defense, especially the long-range Russian S-300 and S-400, which are a limited resource in both reload time and ammunition cost, but are in high demand, deservedly will be at incredible risk of being completely destroyed by ATACMS with cluster munitions. Instead of attacking the radar or command vehicle with a missile or drone, equipped with a unitary warhead, one ATACMS will cover the SAM deployment area with its cluster munitions."
(T. Rogoway, thedrive.com).

Unpleasant situation. A huge number of fragments would have bombarded the air defense missile system's position. And although these surface-to-air missile systems have some missile defense capabilities, ATACMS is a difficult target to destroy quickly. If the complex's missiles were used as part of a layered attack, this would be even more difficult even for such advanced missiles as the S-400.

This is especially true for ongoing Ukrainian operations against Crimea, in which Kyiv is focusing on punching holes in Russia's air defense umbrella over the peninsula to facilitate cruise missile and drone attacks on other targets. And, as we see, it is the layered use of air and sea drones, coupled with cruise missiles, that allows us to achieve certain successes.

Troop camps and ammunition depots would also be at extreme risk from attacks by ATACMS equipped with cluster munitions. Even the Black Sea Fleet itself could suffer greatly at the hands of an ATACMS equipped with cluster munitions. Yes, the main systems of ships are unlikely to be damaged, but fragments are a terrible enemy to communication antennas, radars and electronic warfare modules.

Considering that in our airfields and ports it is somehow not customary even after six months to disperse ships and planes using the “Mediterranean” style of mooring, then, of course, a rocket will not sink anything. But the damage will be quite significant. The same is true for the airfield.

General Kirill Budanov told The War Zone how important ATACMS can be for these reasons, while in Washington and giving an interview there, he said:

“The Russians are just putting command posts and things out of range of our weapons so we don't have anything there that can reach them. The situation is the same with Russian aviation at airfields. The fight against Russian aviation using air defense systems is very costly and ineffective. Aviation must be destroyed at air bases."

All this said, serious questions remain about when Ukraine might receive any ATACMS and what options it might receive.


At the most basic level, US President Joe Biden and his administration appear to be steadily toying with the idea of ​​transferring some ATACMS to the Ukrainian military. It comes after months of pushback, with U.S. officials regularly citing the relatively limited number of these strategically important weapons in the U.S. stockpile, as well as concerns about provoking a new level of escalation by the Russian government.

Last week, Douglas Bush, assistant secretary of the Army for acquisition, logistics and technology, said the stockpile problem should be significantly eased by the acquisition of new precision strike missiles (PrSM) to replace ATACMS. The PrSM manufacturer, Lockheed Martin, told The War Zone that it expects to begin delivering production samples by the end of this year. If Lockheed succeeds, it will be unpleasant.


Testing of the PrSM high-precision missile. US Department of Defense

Speaking at a media roundtable on September 19, Bush also took the opportunity to rebut previous reports that the US military had somehow underestimated its ATACMS stockpile. “Of course, we know exactly how many we have and where they are.”

Just the other day, Deputy Secretary of Defense for Acquisition and Sustainment William LaPlante announced that deliveries of PrSM had begun.

But the question of quantity and quality remains. That is, how many and what variants of ATACMS may be available for transfer, as well as how quickly this can happen. ATACMS is still in production, but the US military stopped buying new ones several years ago. Today, what is produced goes to replenish supplies to countries that purchased ATACMS earlier. But there are still more than a dozen of them...

Lockheed Martin, which makes missiles and launchers, has produced about 4 ATACMS of all variants over the past two decades. That includes about 000 that U.S. troops shot in combat during the Gulf War and Iraq War, as well as others that were sold to foreign countries, according to previous reports.


M39 or M39A1 ATACMS missile under conversion

How many M39/A1 cluster munitions may remain in US service at this time is unknown, just as it is unknown how many of these munitions remain in countries that have purchased ATACMS. ATACMS cluster munitions have been exported in the past to Bahrain, Greece, South Korea and Turkey.

Last week, The Washington Post reported that ongoing discussions about sending ATACMS to Ukraine have focused on the possibility of sending missiles loaded with cluster munitions.

It's worth remembering that several Republican members of Congress previously wrote an open letter to the Biden administration, imploring it to approve sending cluster munition artillery shells to Ukraine, and explicitly noted that this could help "unlock several new systems that have a cluster munition variant, including...ATACMS.” Biden ultimately decided to allow the transfer of 155mm artillery shells filled with submunitions to Ukraine, as already mentioned, and eventually it came to missiles.

All this indicates that Ukraine will receive the announced minimum of three dozen M39/A1 ATACMS missiles, and, most likely, there will be more deliveries as the American arsenals make new ones. But even if the minimum is set, it will still be able to have a certain influence on the course of events. Even in the cassette version, and not in the unitary version.

Yes, you will have to forget about a target like the Crimean Bridge, but you can cause damage by operating on other targets, where cluster munitions will be no less, but more effective.

The question is how to apply it.


Recently, Secretary of the Security Council of Ukraine Alexey Danilov stated that “the Ukrainian Armed Forces will not use ATACMS missiles for attacks on Russian territory.” The question is that in Ukraine they consider the territory of Russia. There are opinions that at the time of 1991, respectively, the Lugansk, Donetsk regions, Crimea and the territories of the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions can be applied easily and naturally.

Well, or we can once again make sure that Kyiv will once again break the promises it made and send missiles to Belgorod.

Considering the American practice of talking about deliveries when weapons are already in Ukraine, we can conclude that those same 30 ATACMS are already in warehouses somewhere in western Ukraine.

In general, missiles with a flight range of 140 to 220 km, and the first releases of ATACMS did not fly over long distances, are not so scary. More precisely, they will be very dangerous, but, firstly, it is possible to move away infrastructure that can cause great damage to ATACMS, such as warehouses. Yes, this will worsen the logistics of supplying the front line, but in the end, it’s better to have a warehouse far away, but intact, than one that burned down nearby. And secondly, we have something to oppose ATACMS.

Still, the Russian army has at its disposal enough complexes capable of hitting targets such as a tactical missile. These are the Buk-M2, Buk-M3, S-300VM, S-300PM2 and S-400 complexes. The Pantsir can also prove effective, because the ATACMS missiles of the first releases are still closer to the Tochka U than to the Iskander in terms of their performance characteristics.

But nevertheless, there is a certain threat. And in terms of quantity, because if the word was said about 30 missiles, then the matter may not be limited to a hundred. Although, as the same Budanov said, even 100 missiles are nothing. They will not be able to solve the situation at the front.

So, of course, ATACMS is a problem for Russia in some sense. But not global, we have so many problems and more serious ones, so 30 missiles is, as they say, not the worst of the problems.
193 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +34
    2 October 2023 04: 30
    So, of course, ATACMS is a problem for Russia in some sense. But not global, we have so many problems and more serious ones, so 30 missiles is, as they say, not the worst of the problems.

    For one eighth of the land, this problem with ATACMS is a trifle, but for each of the one hundred and fifty million inhabitants of the country it (even one rocket) can become a catastrophe of a lifetime... And it will be, as in that lullaby:
    There were many bright rooms
    And now it's dark
    'Cause it might be a bomb
    Fly into the window.

    For some, there are nuclear bunkers, while others are given the choice between “bad”, “very bad” and “so-so”...
    * * *
    I would like to set the record straight and offer evidence for the theory of a short path between “no way in the world, they wouldn’t dare” and “why don’t they give themselves gifts, how dare they”...But only for those who doubt...
    1. +1
      2 October 2023 06: 06
      From this extensive article, one simple, brief conclusion can be drawn: we must destroy the weapons coming to Ukraine at the transshipment bases and ports of Poland and Germany, and no one will blather about Article 5 of the NATO Charter, they have already, in fact, violated it themselves.
      1. +16
        2 October 2023 06: 25
        Quote from Silver99
        it is necessary to destroy the weapons coming to Ukraine at the transshipment bases and ports of Poland and Germany, and no one will blather about Article 5 of the NATO Charter, they have already, in fact, violated it themselves

        What, will you file a lawsuit against the application of Article 5 NATO? In which? Polish, German, American, or the ICC in The Hague? Or finally to Basmanny?wassat
        1. +3
          2 October 2023 16: 48
          Quote: Nagan
          In which? Polish, German, American, or the ICC in The Hague? Or finally to Basmanny?

          Basmanny, of course, is dearer - he won’t let you down. But it’s still better to go to the Tribunal after the final Victory.
          1. 0
            2 October 2023 20: 35
            And bring the summons "Sarmat" directly to NATO headquarters
      2. +14
        2 October 2023 08: 12
        Quote from Silver99
        From this extensive article, one simple, brief conclusion can be drawn: we must destroy the weapons coming to Ukraine at the transshipment bases and ports of Poland and Germany, and no one will blather about Article 5 of the NATO Charter, they have already, in fact, violated it themselves.

        I wonder why the Americans didn’t sink Soviet ships that were carrying missiles with which they shot down hundreds of American planes?
        1. +22
          2 October 2023 08: 53
          Then they could REALLY answer. But today they can only draw lines. Yes, fight in Soviet galoshes.
        2. -3
          2 October 2023 09: 35
          Because it’s probably because the S-75 operators and pilots in Korea and Vietnam were Soviet military personnel, and the battles were fought fair and square, and not on the quiet.
        3. +8
          2 October 2023 11: 56
          You have long been answered to a constantly asked question - because hundreds of planes were shot down not over the United States and the Soviet OTR were not preparing to strike at California.
          1. +3
            2 October 2023 16: 22
            What if the United States were losing to Mexico, and USSR-supplied missiles were flying across California, would it decide to start a war with the USSR and burn in a nuclear fire? I seriously doubt it. Everyone wants to live, especially the leadership, and no one would listen to ordinary Americans dissatisfied with the bombing. The principle of “escalation for de-escalation” may be effective in theory, but in practice it would most likely end in the destruction of humanity.
            1. +2
              2 October 2023 23: 39
              Quote: Kmon
              What if the United States were losing to Mexico, and USSR-supplied missiles were flying across California, would it decide to start a war with the USSR and burn in a nuclear fire? I seriously doubt it. Everyone wants to live, especially the leadership, and no one would listen to ordinary Americans dissatisfied with the bombing. The principle of “escalation for de-escalation” may be effective in theory, but in practice it would most likely end in the destruction of humanity.

              That is why the United States in Mexico acts with influence and money, and does not begin its
        4. +8
          2 October 2023 12: 03
          And we cannot drown....we need to create something like Free Transgender Democrats of Ukraine or Syria...transfer to them something like Geraniums 1-2 and Lancets (with warehouses under the roof of the Russian Federation), publish satellite images of US objects before and after the strike , Britain, France and let them launch in that direction. And don’t hide the fact that the Russian Federation is selling drones, communications, and intelligence data to these rebels.

          Their bases are unstable
          many countries. It won't work any other way.
          1. +1
            2 October 2023 16: 59
            Quote: Zaurbek
            ..you need to create something like Free Transgender Democrats of Ukraine or Syria...give them something like Geraniums 1-2 and Lancets(

            I don’t know what it’s like about transgender people, who are by definition free, but I wouldn’t regret it about “Geraniums” for freedom-loving countries of the world, revolutionary and national liberation movements. Or for free-identifying North Sea pirates who really don't like British pirates.
            True, this may open a Pandora's Box regarding maritime trade, but acceptable solutions for organizing a nightmare for Western elites... fellow plenty .
            1. +2
              3 October 2023 10: 39
              Just a rebel is one thing, but if an LGBT rebel and Geraniums are painted in LGBT rainbows and fall on the heads of the occupiers, you must agree - this will be the agenda of the year.
          2. 0
            2 October 2023 19: 11
            Quote: Zaurbek
            And we cannot drown....we need to create something like Free Transgender Democrats of Ukraine or Syria...transfer to them something like Geraniums 1-2 and Lancets (with warehouses under the roof of the Russian Federation), publish satellite images of US objects before and after the strike , Britain, France and let them launch in that direction. And don’t hide the fact that the Russian Federation is selling drones, communications, and intelligence data to these rebels.

            Their bases are unstable
            many countries. It won't work any other way.

            This is called "gang infiltration" and falls under the definition of aggression. But Ukraine is not easy to understand under the “gang”, because even Russia has agreements with this country.
            Read the decision of the UN General Assembly 3314, everything is explained there
            1. +2
              2 October 2023 21: 24
              No....it's not called that. In Syria, for example, there are different oppositions: Kurds, ISIS (far from united), Democratic opposition, Turkish proxies...... which of them did not strike the Russian Army? And you can’t tie them to the USA or Turkey?! Why shouldn’t any group fight the US military that is occupying Syrian territory? To dissociate them from the ATS, let them imitate a quarrel with them.
              1. +3
                3 October 2023 21: 41
                Quote: Zaurbek
                Why shouldn’t any group fight the US military that is occupying Syrian territory?

                Because they will be destroyed quickly enough, like the late ISIS, which is still banned in the Russian Federation. And for one thing, if there is a bad mood, the entire Russian contingent in the region. The chances against the US Army, and even in an overseas theater of operations, are exactly zero.
              2. 0
                3 October 2023 22: 07
                Quote: Zaurbek
                No....it's not called that. In Syria, for example, there are different oppositions: Kurds, ISIS (far from united), Democratic opposition, Turkish proxies...... which of them did not strike the Russian Army? And you can’t tie them to the USA or Turkey?! Why shouldn’t any group fight the US military that is occupying Syrian territory? To dissociate them from the ATS, let them imitate a quarrel with them.

                Unlike Syria with xs with whom and from what sands (not the same sands) - all millions of Crimean people with Donbass are named in the Kiev passport server since 14. Alas.
                Formally, Article 111 of the Ukrainian Criminal Code. All of them (well, except for those who personally handed in their passports there on Khreshchatyk)
        5. +3
          2 October 2023 19: 36
          Aaron Zawi
          That's interesting ...

          Ukry, with the help of US and NATO weapons, strikes at Russian territory, causing civilian deaths. If the Cubans had attacked US territory in October 1962 with the help of USSR weapons, how would the US government and its president have behaved?
          1. +5
            2 October 2023 23: 43
            Quote: 16112014nk
            Aaron Zawi
            That's interesting ...

            Ukry, with the help of US and NATO weapons, strikes at Russian territory, causing civilian deaths. If the Cubans had attacked US territory in October 1962 with the help of USSR weapons, how would the US government and its president have behaved?

            Then the USA would have crushed the Cubans to zero and it would be in the bag.
            1. +2
              3 October 2023 15: 16
              Well, we're not like that. We haven't even started yet.
              And our president answers like this.
              But more than 18 fighters have already been killed in Ukraine in 000 years. And the civilian population in Russia itself is already dying from ukrov strikes. When will the authorities wake up?
              1. +1
                7 October 2023 12: 33
                If you don’t have the strength to deal with Ukraine, then what about strikes against NATO?
                This discussion is an indicator of helplessness, about attacks on the West.
                The authorities have woken up, everything is used except nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. The budget is swelling from war expenses.

                In addition to military potential, the country also has internal political potential. It is also not infinite, this is an attempt to show that the NWO is far away and everything is fine.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. 0
            3 October 2023 22: 02
            Quote: 16112014nk
            With the help of USSR weapons they attacked the territory of the United States, how would the US government and its president behave?

            It depends on what weapon. If we return to the circumstances of 62, then there were two main options: 1. Destroy Cuba 2. Destroy Cuba along with the USSR entirely. In the early 60s this wasn't such a big deal.
        6. 0
          3 October 2023 19: 04
          They were afraid of starting a nuclear war. And now we are afraid. And you don’t have to be ashamed of it - EVERYONE is afraid of it, it’s natural.
      3. +12
        2 October 2023 09: 30
        No. The conclusion is different. We must immediately respond symmetrically. Urgently giving Iran, North Korea, China - and everyone who is an enemy of the United States, including drug lords and all sorts of guerrillas, something extremely unpleasantly offensive... Whoever has something closer to their hearts.
        1. +8
          2 October 2023 10: 34
          And what are you going to supply to China? Another couple of years and we will be hopelessly behind them.
          1. +1
            2 October 2023 12: 28
            The only thing China still needs from Russia is turbojet engine technology for fighters and military aviation. In other respects, China is already far ahead. Only resources remain in their pure form.
            1. +1
              2 October 2023 21: 20
              RF needs:
              1. buyer of resources (stable, on long contracts.
              2. Supplier of technologies and goods using the proceeds.
              3. And who will not get involved in politics within the Russian Federation.


              It's minimum. Neither the US nor the EU can provide all this in its pure form.
              1. +3
                3 October 2023 01: 20
                Quote: Zaurbek
                RF needs:
                1. buyer of resources (stable, on long contracts.
                2. Supplier of technologies and goods using the proceeds.
                3. And who will not get involved in politics within the Russian Federation.


                It's minimum. Neither the US nor the EU can provide all this in its pure form.

                Will China give it? No.
                1. 0
                  3 October 2023 10: 37
                  At the moment, it does. And transfers technology for money received from the sale of resources.
                  Machine tools, engines and licenses for them, components (transmissions and axles). Whether we want to license this in the Russian Federation or not is our decision. If there is no commercial justification, then the comtrans can be easily purchased and licensed. From the West side, we sell oil to GAZ for hard currency, which we cannot use.....including the purchase of absolutely civilian equipment and machine tools. Why then do we need Dengi-SKV? Remember buying an OPEL in still good years....
                  1. -1
                    3 October 2023 18: 57
                    Previously, the West gave everything, they even bought used photolithographic machines on which they still do something, Rheinmetall built a military training ground in Mulino, in general, Western technologies, even if not advanced, could be bought, but then our leadership got involved in the Crimean adventure and as a result, now the whole country is up to its neck in...
                    1. +1
                      4 October 2023 20: 38
                      Well, if the supplier of goods is not reliable, there should be two or three suppliers. The Russian Federation pays and the Russian Federation wants to receive the goods (technology). And the Russian Federation wants to use the product the way and when it wants.
                      1. +1
                        7 October 2023 12: 35
                        Is China reliable? China will exchange us as soon as it is profitable for them. They follow the path of their own benefit and we are more likely to be fellow travelers with them than partners.
                    2. 0
                      5 October 2023 19: 46
                      Judging by your opinion, would it be better if there was a NATO base in Our Sevastopol?
              2. +2
                3 October 2023 21: 14
                Quote: Zaurbek
                RF needs:
                1. buyer of resources (stable, on long contracts.
                2. Supplier of technologies and goods using the proceeds.
                3. And who will not get involved in politics within the Russian Federation.

                I am forced to remind you that until the concept of “within the Russian Federation” began to behave in an unpredictable way, this is exactly what happened.
                1. +1
                  4 October 2023 20: 35
                  “Inside the Russian Federation” should not be under the influence of any foreigners selling goods to us for our money. If they sold it - good, if they didn’t sell it - someone else will sell it. If you want to teach something useful (engineering, medicine, etc.), we are grateful and will pay. With your charter to us - go through the forest.
                  1. +2
                    4 October 2023 20: 45
                    Again. The outside world did not care at all what the citizens of the Russian Federation did to each other. Until the desire of Russians, represented by the best people in the country, to do something with someone began to manifest itself in directions unexpected from the point of view of the borders of the Russian Federation.
                    1. +1
                      4 October 2023 22: 16
                      Again. Actions “outside” are caused by actions “outside” to us inside. Refusal to supply “beads” to us, at a time when the same beads can be supplied from the East, is stupidity and stupidity. After occupying our market, selling “beads” to us will be more and more difficult. Nothing “divine” came to us from the direction “West”.
                      1. +2
                        5 October 2023 08: 16
                        Quote: Zaurbek
                        Again. Actions “outside” are caused by actions “outside” to us inside

                        I am forced to note that South Ossetia, Crimea, and especially the rest of the “new regions” had nothing to do with the internal affairs of the Russian Federation at the moment when demilitarization, so to speak, began there.
                        Quote: Zaurbek
                        Refusal to supply “beads” to us, at a time when the same beads can be supplied from the East, is stupidity and stupidity

                        Sanctions are only good, yes.

                        Have you seen Russian cosmonautics? The same thing awaits the Russian military service. If you wanted Juche, it will be Juche. Cough cough.

                        If you are talking about the kansel kalcha with the refusal to supply Coca-Cola, then the meaning of these actions is to help the Russian authorities soften the blow and equalize the balance of payments (and therefore the ruble exchange rate) due to the fall in imports of consumer goods, so that the economic shock does not force them to quickly curtail their geopolitical activity. To get in deeper.

                        This is assuming that everything goes according to the reptilian plan. That is, that there are reptilians, that they have a plan, and they don’t give a damn about Russia’s actions.
        2. +1
          2 October 2023 13: 06
          The idea is extremely correct, but we see that the West has foreseen this perfectly: it got out of Afghanistan, and now it’s getting out of Africa. Now there are almost no conflicts where we could help in the fight against the West. Perhaps Syria, but the situation there is twofold, ours are also clear in the open.
          1. 0
            3 October 2023 10: 43
            At least in the SAR and Africa......If they are expelled from the SAR (And they occupy oil production there), their location can be given to Rosneft. Here is the direct benefit. Geranium has a reach of up to 2 km, and even US Arab bases in the region can be reached........ The main thing is that Israel does not interfere.
            1. +1
              3 October 2023 19: 44
              Quote: Zaurbek
              If they are kicked out of the SAR

              This is projection. What to kick out with? Bare bottom? The United States will take exactly a month to increase its forces in Syria by 10-20-30 times. Competing with them far from your borders in logistics is obviously a bad idea.
              They are strong not because they have nuclear weapons, and not because they have a large Air Force and Navy, but because they have the tools to quickly transfer entire divisions to anywhere on the planet.



              Quote: Zaurbek
              The main thing is that Israel does not interfere.

              As long as this does not lead to a strengthening of the Iranian presence, Israel does not care about the Syrian fuss. In itself, Syria is not a threat; it ceased to be one after the collapse of the USSR.
              1. 0
                4 October 2023 20: 41
                The USSR expanded in Afghanistan as it wanted. Soldiers died from mine explosions and shelling. Geranium - flying far and like a grenade (50kg). You can issue a control center for it, you can let it go from anywhere. Then catch these launchers (with a radius of 2000 km). And the economic activity of extracting and transporting stolen oil will disrupt.
        3. +5
          2 October 2023 13: 19
          Urgently supplying Iran, North Korea, China
          Iran to supply Geraniums. Iran has abandoned the S-400 and has its own.
          North Korea to supply... shells.
          China chips, microcircuits.
          Niger blacks.

          Iran's Defense Minister said:
          that Tehran does not need
          in the purchase of Russian S-400 air defense systems
          https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/17203251
        4. 0
          2 October 2023 17: 08
          Quote: paul3390
          yes, to everyone who is an enemy of the United States, including drug lords and all kinds of guerrillas, something extremely unpleasant

          Wow, we are already approaching the optimal solution.
          Why does the Irish Liberation Army still not have Shahed Geraniums to convey their point of view to the royal house of England, its government, military and industrial infrastructure.
          And the Mexican Liberation Army must have the means to convey its point of view regarding the annexation by the United States of America of its state of New Mexico and a number of other territories annexed by the SGA.
          And why are Latin American refugees on the US border not yet armed? It's not fair.
          1. +1
            2 October 2023 19: 29
            bayard Today, 17:08. NEW. YOURS - "...Whoa, we're already approaching the optimal solution..."

            Sure. the process is underway and corrupt Ukrainian officials have “successfully” sold Soviet weapons stocks around the world on the cheap since 1991. They will not waive their right to resell NATO reserves especially for reasons such as:
            USA. US actions and the situation in the country
            01.10.2023, 13: 51. America hasn't stopped
            https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/6251262
            The US Congress avoided a shutdown by excluding spending on aid to Ukraine from the budget love crying belay
            A real drama unfolded in the US Congress on Saturday. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, despite threats from far-right Republicans to strip him of his job, put to a vote a temporary resolution to fund the government until November 17. Unexpectedly, the Democrats, whose support was so needed, voted for the adoption of the document, despite the absence of spending on aid to Ukraine in it wink . The resolution was later approved by the Senate, where Democrats have a majority. wink after which the document was immediately signed by Joe Biden. love Just three hours before a possible shutdown of federal government work was avoided. With details - Kommersant correspondent in Washington Ekaterina Moore. hi
          2. +2
            2 October 2023 21: 08
            The Irish Liberation Army still does not have Shahed Geraniums.
            Because it (the army) does not exist.
            1. 0
              3 October 2023 20: 15
              Quote: Bolt Cutter
              Because it (the army) does not exist.

              If only there were "Geraniums", there would be an army. There are plenty of risky guys in Ireland.
              1. +1
                3 October 2023 21: 22
                Quote: bayard
                There are plenty of risky guys in Ireland.

                Ireland is one of the richest countries in Europe, so all the “risky guys” are strays there. And it’s hard to find guys so risky that they are disposable anywhere.

                By the way. If Storm Shadow's range magically changes from "a little short of Moscow" to "just right" - what do you want to do?
                1. +2
                  4 October 2023 04: 12
                  Quote: Negro
                  If Storm Shadow's range magically changes from "a little short of Moscow" to "just right" - what do you want to do?

                  Punish.
          3. +1
            3 October 2023 06: 37
            Quote: bayard
            Why does the Irish Liberation Army still not have Shahed Geraniums to convey their point of view to the royal house of England, its government, military and industrial infrastructure.
            It would be better to give them several Stingers from recent trophies, and let them crash some airliner taking off from the airport in Belfast, and be sure to throw a pipe with a serial number on the spot, which is listed as a delivery to/from. I feel sorry for the people, but “without victims, comrade, there is no struggle”©. And even if the Irish Republican Army no longer exists, it can be invented, some “Militant Faction” or “Combat Organization” of the IRA will take responsibility, and let them prove that it does not exist, like don’t you see the gopher? but he is. Is there really no officer in the GRU who speaks English with a heavy Irish accent?
            This is both an undiplomatic note to the British government and proof that recipients of Western aid are selling it to the left. And let the recipients prove that they are not trading.
        5. +1
          3 October 2023 19: 53
          Quote: paul3390
          Urgently supplying Iran, North Korea, China...

          You are clearly living in the past; Iran, the DPRK and the PRC are already supplying the Russian Federation. laughing
      4. +1
        3 October 2023 19: 28
        Quote from Silver99
        and no one will blather about Article 5 of the NATO Charter

        To completely eliminate this possibility, you need to act through a proxy. Come up with some kind of “Jihad-Al-Alibaba” group in Africa, which will loudly take responsibility after each such action, under the guise of “fighting infidels.”
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. 0
            4 October 2023 03: 14
            Quote: Negro
            These people who like to take responsibility will be cut out in a week.

            It's hard to cut out someone who doesn't exist. laughing

            Quote: Negro
            You are wrong to overestimate human stupidity. Don't judge by yourself.

            Is it possible to translate it into Russian? I didn’t even understand whether this was an attack or a compliment. laughing
    2. +30
      2 October 2023 07: 07
      So Konashenkov killed all the highmars and marsys from the enemy last year. And the great demilitarizer said that if the adversaries intervene, then the answer will be one that they have literally “never encountered in their history.” By the way, I look, and it’s true that they have never encountered such an answer. With no answer
      1. +12
        2 October 2023 10: 11
        With no answer

        In our history there were Great, Terrible, Bloody kings... Now No One has appeared.
    3. -1
      2 October 2023 19: 14
      ROSS 42 (Yuri Vasilievich). Today, 04:30. NEW. yours -
      "... дFor one-eighth of sushi, the problem with ATACMS is a trifle, but dFor each of the one hundred and fifty million inhabitants of the country, it (even one rocket) can become a catastrophe of a lifetime...

      Fully agree with you. hi But it's not only that. feel
      For some reason When the conversation begins about the use of weapons supplied by the West for O. Krajina, there is a verbal foam about the non-participation of “suppliers” in the conflict. crying И As confirmation, there is again verbal foam about a “similar situation” of confrontation in the events in Korea. in Vietnam, the Middle East, etc. “Where there were not only weapons and so-called advisers from TWO sides. AND THIS is for the “creators” of the foam confirmation of NOT direct participation in the events in the O.Kraina of NATO countries: belay
      But:
      - although the USA itself would have had enough am prehistory and what happened during and after the Nord Stream explosion. "the work of the so-called "vacationers" of the US Army in the O.Kraina and ensuring the "work" of the supplied weapons and military equipment. And communications and navigation ...
      - England with its organizer. ensuring the “work” of the supplied weapons and military equipment. but and not only a call for terror on the territory of the Russian Federation. but also participation in the implementation of terrorist actions in O.kraina..
      - further down the list. There's no point in wasting time listing.....allies of the Ukrainian-Nazis. But also those who fed THIS...
      QUESTION!? Perhaps I have a problem with the geography and territory of Belgorod. Kursk. Smolensk. Moscow is not all. this is so easy to understand belay feel request WHERE IS IT!? feel
      Let's not talk about the Ukrainians. these are on kukan. wherever they say and bang.
      And from the Western “partners” there are increasingly open calls for massive strikes on the TERRITORY OF RUSSIA, incl. in the perspective of “advanced” nuclear power.,
      AND NOW LET'S SPECIFY THE QUESTION!
      1. Whose weapon and often those who use it?(from Americans - English - French - Poles). feel ...
      2. Who manages - at least advises and ensures activities belay troops and the Okraina itself... and clearly speaks about it on camera ...including the most successful investment of money
      3. Whose sovereign territory is subjected to acts of TERROR and STRIKES by Western weapons? crying and yet it is clear as day. that not without the help or even under the direct control of the “PARTNERS”!?
      4. Whose civilians are constantly dying. become disabled. whose state suffers losses from these acts of terror. as moral. material and financial.
      feel
      5. A few days ago American investigator Hersh published his version of events with the Nord Stream bombing. Apart from some details, he didn’t say anything revolutionary new....The official Kremlin completely ignored Hersh’s investigations. Although they certainly couldn’t help but pay attention to it. However, I have no doubt that all those who are supposed to have known names, positions, etc. for a long time. Lack of public reaction is not the time! .. recourse .But in China they decided not to remain silent. Possibly “warmed up” by the hype around the downed Probe, maybe for other reasons No. . So the Chinese analogue of our Maria Zakharova, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Mao Ning, speaking at a briefing, said literally the following: "The Nord Stream gas pipeline represents a large transnational infrastructure, and the corresponding The explosion had a serious negative impact on the world energy market and the global environmental environment. If Seymour Hersh's investigative reports are true, The US must be held accountable. The American side must account to the world for sabotage."...
      Thank you to China for SAYING what it said on the issue of the terrorist attack on the Nord Streams. hi What would China say or do if it were on its sovereign territory? no, not in Taiwan. blows were struck by highmars. artillery (777 or "Caesar"). missiles of Western "partners". crying I'm sure the survey is redundant feel I don't remind you. What would the USSR do? For some reason, the “partners” knew this then and they had no DOUBT about the CONSEQUENCES. am
      R.S. Compare the confrontation in O.kraina и with events in Korea. in Vietnam and the Middle East, etc. This is more than stupid! Perhaps in the events in Korea. in Vietnam and the Middle East and other participants in the conflict struck with their weapons on the territory of the USSR and the USA!?. Question 1.
      Question 2. September 29, 2023, 10:14 Army “An erroneous decision and a pre-emptive strike. The United States named three scenarios for the start of the conflict between Russia and NATO...” - https://www.gazeta.ru/army/2023/09/29/17659477.shtml
      ...Three escalation scenarios
      The American non-profit organization RAND described in its report three options for the development of events if Russia attacks NATO forces during the conflict in Ukraine. The analytical center is associated with the US government and the Pentagon. Experts are considering three scenarios of unintentional escalation on the part of the Russian Federation:
      - Gthe death of NATO officials as a result of the Russian strike on Ukraine.
      Experts believe that the situation may lead to demands from a group of participating countries to issue a collective response. In this case, Moscow can observe the alliance’s reaction and launch a preemptive strike, RAND experts believe.
      The death of American military personnel as a result of actions of the Russian Armed Forces near American reconnaissance aircraft.
      In this case The US would be faced with the need to respond and possibly strike Russian aircraft or air bases. Experts believe that Moscow will consider any response from Washington as a step towards a sharp escalation, and this could become a reason to strike.
      - - A pre-emptive strike against NATO targets if Russia “erroneously” decides that the alliance is about to intervene directly in the conflict in Ukraine.
      An increase in the number of NATO forces near the borders of the Russian Federation and discussions about Ukraine joining the bloc or security guarantees for Kyiv could convince Moscow that NATO is ready to intervene directly in the conflict. Then Moscow, experts say, could insist on a ceasefire or launch a preemptive strike on NATO targets to weaken the alliance’s capabilities and prevent interference in the conflict in Ukraine. NATO may respond to this with restraint and express indignation, but experts also allow a transition to direct collective military action..."
      As can be seen from the “analytics”, the USA and NATO have no problems with what and when to do...“the only possible thing is a lack of understanding” of the Russian Federation. Especially for option 3. In almost recent history, the “misunderstanding” of the need for a preemptive strike by Russia (then the USSR) was the events of June 22, 1941. . But the country (USSR) was preparing for its beginning...from the economy. . Sun. GO. NATIONAL PROBLEMS to the majority of its citizens hi
  2. +31
    2 October 2023 05: 02
    The rocket is not new development began in 1992 year, and it was adopted into service in 1991.

    And so it was possible ?! belay
    1. +1
      2 October 2023 13: 36
      Development began when the US Department of Defense combined Army the CSWS Troop Support Weapon System program, begun in 1980 as a successor to the MGM-52 Lance, and the Air force USA CSW (Conventional Standoff Weapon) into the JTACMS (Joint TACMS, Single tactical missile system).

      Lance MGM-52 tactical surface-to-surface ballistic missile. Research work began in 1962, and in 1971 it replaced the obsolete operational-tactical missile systems of the Onest John type.

      US Honest John missile demonstration warhead, showing M139 sarin canisters (circa 1960s photo)
      1. 0
        2 October 2023 19: 13
        Quote: Andriuha077
        Development began when the US Department of Defense combined Army the CSWS Troop Support Weapon System program, begun in 1980 as a successor to the MGM-52 Lance, and the Air force USA CSW (Conventional Standoff Weapon) into the JTACMS (Joint TACMS, Single tactical missile system).

        Lance MGM-52 tactical surface-to-surface ballistic missile. Research work began in 1962, and in 1971 it replaced the obsolete operational-tactical missile systems of the Onest John type.

        US Honest John missile demonstration warhead, showing M139 sarin canisters (circa 1960s photo)

        Is this really with sarin? The fragmentation ones seem to look similar.
        1. 0
          3 October 2023 21: 51
          The fragmentation ones seem to look similar.
          Did you notice too? The continuity of these balls. The same systems remain, as does the fairing of the old first rocket. Well, the filling. Times were harsh, not like now.
          One explosive is enough. With damaging elements.
          However.
          Chemical cluster warhead M190 and submunitions M134 / M139 (USA. 1960 / 1964).
          The M134 is an American chemical submunition designed for use in the M190 warhead of the Honest John missile in the 1950s. The weapon was never mass produced???? and was replaced in 1964 by the improved design M139.
          The M134, originally designated E130 or E130R1, began development in the early 1950s.
          The submunitions were filled with sarin, and after the missile was launched, the submunitions dissipated at an altitude of 1500 m above the target. One cluster warhead provided a destruction zone with a diameter of 1000 m.
          The Honest John cassette warhead could accommodate 356 M134s. The spherical M134 had a diameter of 115 mm and was made of ribbed steel. It contained approximately 0,50 kg of sarin (GB). The US Chemical Corps originally planned to use the M134 VX for the loadout, but later abandoned it.
          The cluster warhead intended for use by the M134 was classified and put into production on April 14, 1960, but the M134 itself was still not ready for production. The M134 had many problems that hampered its development. Problems with the fuze system and a tendency for filled ammunition to become unacceptably high in pressure were among the problems encountered during development. Problems with the M134 delayed the nerve agent program. By 1964, the successor submunition to the M139 was ready for production.
          The cluster warhead intended for use by the M134 was classified and put into production on April 14, 1960, but the M134 itself was still not ready for production. The M134 had many problems that hampered its development. Problems with the fuze system and a tendency for filled ammunition to become unacceptably high in pressure were among the problems encountered during development. Problems with the M134 delayed the nerve agent program. By 1964, the successor submunition to the M139 was ready for production.
          The M139 is an American submunition designed for use in chemical cluster bombs. Each spherical submunition contained 590 grams of sarin. The M134 spherical chemical cluster munition was originally developed for the Honest John missile, but it was not adopted for service due to many problems. The M190 chemical warhead can include 356 of these mini-bombs.
          In 1964, a new warhead size was standardized for the Little John missile: 32 cm. The warhead carried 52 M139 bombs. When the MGM-1960 "Sergeant" missile was deployed in the 29s, it could carry a warhead of 330 M139 bombs. Subsequent missile systems, including the Pershing 1 missile, also had the ability to carry M139 warheads. Approximately 60 M000 ammunition were produced; almost all were destroyed between April and November 139.
          The M139 was an 11 cm diameter spherical bomb filled with 590 grams of sarin (GB). Outside the device there were blades, the rotation of which cocked the impact fuse. A rotation speed of 1000 to 2000 rpm was required for firing, which made the bombs easier to handle since they were insensitive to normal movements. The bomb contained an explosive charge containing 73 grams of Composition B and two outer compartments containing sarin.
          The M139 bomb was used by the US Army in at least two chemical weapons tests. In 1967, two series of tests were conducted to study the effects of sarin released in cluster bombs on two different types of forest environments. The first series of tests, known as the "Green Mist", took place from March 25 to April 24, 1967. The purpose of the tests, conducted in Hawaii, was to determine how sarin-filled M139s dispersed in the rainforest. Both sarin and its simulant, methyl acetoacetate, were used in Hawaii.
          Another test using the M139 was conducted at the Gerstle River Proving Ground, near Fort Greely, Alaska, from June to July 1967. The purpose of these tests was to determine the effectiveness of the M139 and BLU-19/B23 sarin-filled bombs when dropped from a SADEYE dispenser in a summer forest environment. The tests were collectively known as "Dew Point". Both 1967 operations were supervised by the US Army's Deseret Test Center. Both M139 tests were part of Project 112.
  3. -6
    2 October 2023 05: 46
    The author correctly writes “vile” rocket.
    The Ukrainians will do disgusting things with such missiles.
    Throw it around the “White House”. The very same goal for ATACMS!
    1. +9
      2 October 2023 06: 31
      Quote: sagitovich
      Throw it around the “White House”.

      Senile Joe does not solve any issues more complex than the type of ice cream that will be served for dessert in the White House. He signs what is brought to him to sign. What to bring is not decided by the White House. Do you know the coordinates of Obama's stay? Soros? Shut up, most Americans will be sincerely grateful.
      1. 0
        2 October 2023 08: 51
        Obama, Soros chocolate and cream bunnies. There are more serious guys there, and their location is the best-kept secret on Earth.
      2. -1
        2 October 2023 17: 17
        Most people think that the king decides something. In any country. More precisely, he decides everything. This is both good and bad.
        It’s good in the sense that on the other side there are the same ideas and people in different echelons of power. Those who believe that the main thing is to sit out Putin and everything will immediately change.
        It’s bad because we also think that in their brothel the beds will be rearranged and everything will immediately change.

        But in fact, modern kings are just a lightning rod and a talking head.
    2. +16
      2 October 2023 07: 10
      Here they still don’t want to shy away from Bankova, but you’re talking about the White House.
      1. +3
        2 October 2023 12: 27
        There is no point in hitting empty buildings from which both people and equipment have long been removed. There may be a propaganda meaning, but nothing more. Yes, they recently hit the headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet - but there has been no one and nothing there for a long time, and they ended up screwing up the story about the killed commander. After all, the 15th Main Directorate of the KGB of the USSR at one time knew its business well and built a lot of reserve protected command posts, including for the leadership of the Ukrainian SSR at that time.
      2. +4
        2 October 2023 13: 11
        And who is left there on Bankovaya? If there had been someone important there, maybe they would have shied away. The dagger flies to Kyiv in 1.5 minutes, so even if the takeoff is detected, they simply won’t have time to hide Zelya and his henchmen.
        Therefore option 2:
        - they are not available at the bank
        - they are there, but no one is going to beat them
        1. 0
          2 October 2023 21: 48
          They are sitting in the ZKP; there have been no people or equipment on Bankovaya and Khreshchatyk for a long time. In the Rada - yes, there is.
  4. +27
    2 October 2023 05: 51
    Anyway, ATACMS is a problem. These are corpses and injuries for our soldiers, destroyed equipment, permitted infrastructure.
    Who is to blame that such a problem arose? Those who promised Western countries “consequences that they have never encountered in their history.”
    1. +23
      2 October 2023 06: 36
      Quote: RussianPatriot
      Anyway, ATACMS is a problem. These are corpses and injuries for our soldiers, destroyed equipment, permitted infrastructure.
      Who is to blame that such a problem arose? Those who promised Western countries “consequences that they have never encountered in their history.”

  5. +2
    2 October 2023 06: 01
    Quote: RussianPatriot
    Anyway, ATACMS is a problem. These are corpses and injuries for our soldiers, destroyed equipment, permitted infrastructure.
    Who is to blame that such a problem arose? Those who promised Western countries “consequences that they have never encountered in their history.”

    We must assume, soldiers, the big man over there from the State Duma said that the Chechens have to kick them into battle...
    1. 0
      2 October 2023 16: 11
      Quote from Tim666
      A big man from the State Duma said that the Chechens have to kick them into battle..

      This “big man” with a small brain from the State Duma will now fly from all his posts. The tongue cracks so much that one of its convolutions cannot keep up with the verbal diarrhea. To his SVO? ... I don't think it's worth it. To the zone, to the land of permafrost and reindeer moss.
      1. +1
        2 October 2023 20: 27
        Quote: 30 vis
        Quote from Tim666
        A big man from the State Duma said that the Chechens have to kick them into battle..

        This “big man” with a small brain from the State Duma will now fly from all his posts.

        Come on!? "It's a fresh dowry, but it's hard to believe" request
        How many of these “flew” into the sunset?
  6. 0
    2 October 2023 06: 03
    And how will the question now stand... it’s unlikely that it will be, to be or not to be, everything will... continue, we WILL BE, and our enemies will have to be driven into oblivion!
  7. +4
    2 October 2023 06: 11
    development began in 1992, and it was put into service in 1991.

    ?? recourse belay
    1. +2
      2 October 2023 09: 44
      Well, the man made a mistake, why did you attack him? laughing
  8. +7
    2 October 2023 06: 33
    If Russian soldiers are dying in Ukraine from American weapons, then why not have American soldiers die somewhere in the Middle East from Russian weapons?
    1. +9
      2 October 2023 06: 48
      The Abramovichs will not allow this. They also want to live in European castles and travel on yachts.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +2
      2 October 2023 13: 15
      The idea is correct, but there are no conflicts with the US teaching there:
      - they dumped Afghan (assuming that you are not the only one who would have such sensible thoughts)
      - in Iraq everything is smooth for them, everyone there is tame
      - in Syria it is twofold - the niches will not last long. If the local US bases start throwing something Russian at them, some Kurds at Khimeimim will immediately throw something American at ours...
      - and in Africa the Western exodus is happening, well, the Gay Europeans really don’t want to die there, and this is very easy for them to ensure there
    4. +5
      2 October 2023 13: 22
      Quote: HaByxoDaBHocep
      then why not make sure that American soldiers die somewhere in the Middle East from Russian weapons?

      In terms of? Soviet weapons mountains. Wherever American soldiers die from time to time, it is present.
      1. 0
        3 October 2023 22: 31
        Quote: Negro
        Quote: HaByxoDaBHocep
        then why not make sure that American soldiers die somewhere in the Middle East from Russian weapons?

        In terms of? Soviet weapons mountains. Wherever American soldiers die from time to time, it is present.

        Despite the fact that the same Africans don’t need all sorts of S-300s and other prodigies. Pairs of helicopters with armored personnel carriers for the eyes of the natives.
        In this sense, there are generally problems with those “relations” of raw material colonies - which have nothing to offer each other. Besides millet and regular write-offs. One way.
  9. +4
    2 October 2023 06: 39
    In general, it’s not a bad idea, the MLRS launches a tactical missile, that’s minus the extra PU vehicle, maybe they’ll do it here too?
    1. +12
      2 October 2023 08: 55
      For what? We have 100500 temples within walking distance. And this is +500 to attack and defense.
      1. +2
        2 October 2023 16: 44
        Actually, +750 to attack, +900 to defense and +1200 to the realization that we will go to heaven, and they will simply die.
    2. +3
      2 October 2023 11: 24
      Quote: Vadim S
      In general, it’s not a bad idea, the MLRS launches a tactical missile, that’s minus the extra PU vehicle,

      Not only.
      A single launcher is a big plus for camouflage, when it is impossible to separate the readn from the rbr by technique.
      This is a huge plus for survivability, since in order to prevent the launch of an OTR, you need to hit all the MLRS launchers in a given area, otherwise some one will replace 6 RS with 1 OTR.
    3. -1
      2 October 2023 11: 47
      Quote: Vadim S
      In general, it’s not a bad idea, the MLRS launches a tactical missile, that’s minus the extra PU vehicle, maybe they’ll do it here too?

      In fact, not very well, because the rocket did not turn out very well due to the physical limitations of the launcher. But these are questions for the army, who demanded that it be included in the M270
      1. +2
        2 October 2023 13: 24
        Quote from Escariot
        the limitations of the launcher didn't turn out very well

        What does “not very” mean? What should it be like?

        I remember that the new missiles that are now being put into service come two in a container, not one at a time. That is, they are smaller, but fly further.
        1. -2
          2 October 2023 19: 25
          Quote: Negro
          Quote from Escariot
          the limitations of the launcher didn't turn out very well

          What does “not very” mean? What should it be like?

          I remember that the new missiles that are now being put into service come two in a container, not one at a time. That is, they are smaller, but fly further.

          Like the rocket is short relative to its length, which is why aerodynamics suffer; it is physically impossible to increase the length due to the limitations of the launcher. Accordingly, they had to make lighter rockets, which were much better from an aerodynamic point of view.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. 0
            3 October 2023 22: 06
            Quote from Escariot
            Like the rocket is short relative to its length, which is why aerodynamics suffer

            And what does it lack in aerodynamics, a divisional rocket of the late 80s?
  10. The comment was deleted.
    1. +3
      2 October 2023 07: 00
      He basically writes "in"
      1. +4
        2 October 2023 07: 23
        Although, if you re-read carefully, there are both “on” and “in”.... So complaints are probably unnecessary....
        Well, in general, of course, this delivery will add problems without a doubt. It’s not predictable where the frostbitten ones will shoot at her. There is only one antidote - destruction before use because 100% protection by air defense means does not exist
  11. +15
    2 October 2023 07: 08
    ATACMS is not Russia's problem, but the spinelessness of the leadership... Let's allow these things to be stored again.
    1. 0
      4 October 2023 21: 42
      So there are 1600 kg and 4 meters - it fits diagonally into any gazelle) How to find them?
  12. -14
    2 October 2023 07: 09
    We pull and pull, but we can’t pull it out ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
    Maybe we can still mobilize and finish this fuss?
    In general, why are we silent about the Geneva Convention, which clearly states the inadmissibility of the use of cluster munitions?!
    Since they do not recognize it, then this convention should not apply to those prisoners who came to us during the battle.
    They have everything on GPS, where is our car with bolts in space?!
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. -13
        2 October 2023 14: 12
        Quote from solar
        Nothing is written there. The Russian military has been using cluster munitions since the beginning of the war. There are also photos from last year from sites in Kharkov, where utility workers stole the remains of ammunition - there are a lot of cluster ammunition there, they have a very characteristic appearance.

        Solar, they’ve already written to you that you’re a lousy sissy.
        I strongly doubt that the Russian military, taking into account the extremely cautious Russian leadership towards the opinion of “world humanity,” would be the FIRST to use cluster munitions. If they began to be used, it was only after the absence of any reaction from “world humanity” to the shelling of residential areas of Donetsk by the Armed Forces of Ukraine with cassettes containing “Lepestki”.
        1. +5
          2 October 2023 19: 11
          Quote: Askold65
          I strongly doubt that the Russian military, taking into account the extremely cautious Russian leadership towards the opinion of “world humanity,” would be the FIRST to use cluster munitions.

          These are standard warheads of large MLRS. There was no question whether to use them or not.
          1. 0
            2 October 2023 20: 48
            Quote: Negro
            There was no question whether to use them or not

            Did you write this from the group’s headquarters, since you are aware of the issues that arise/do not arise in the course of the SVO? belay

            Quote: Negro
            These are standard warheads of large MLRS.

            And here are the “standard warheads of large MLRS” of the Uragan system:
            high explosive
            9M27F Indexes -- warhead 9N128F; Warhead mass - 100 kg; Explosive mass -- 51,9 kg; Fuse type - contact.
            Thermobaric
            9M51 Warhead index -- 9N515; Warhead mass --143,5 kg; Explosive mass - 30,2 kg; Fuse type - contact.
            Dill began to burst across Donetsk with “Lepestals” almost immediately. Therefore, questions no longer arose.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. -1
              3 October 2023 22: 01
              Quote: Askold65
              You wrote this from the group headquarters

              I am not interested in the clowning of political instructors from the “group headquarters”. Do they still perform there or are they tired of it too?
              Quote: Askold65
              If you are aware of the issues that arise/do not arise in the course of the work of the SVO?

              Naturally aware. You see, I've been following this case a little. Videos of working with cluster munitions as much as you like.
              Quote: Askold65
              Dill began to burst across Donetsk with “Lepestals” almost immediately. Therefore, questions no longer arose.

              Well, even you didn’t have the courage to continue to point out that such ammunition has not been used since day one. So what is the bazaar-station about?
    2. +4
      2 October 2023 12: 34
      Quote: 75Sergey
      In general, why are we silent about the Geneva Convention, which clearly states the inadmissibility of the use of cluster munitions?!

      To begin with, did you sign it in order to appeal to it? No? Well, what are the problems, besides your own spinelessness?
    3. +4
      2 October 2023 13: 34
      Quote: 75Sergey
      In general, why are we silent about the Geneva Convention, which clearly states the inadmissibility of the use of cluster munitions?!

      Nothing like this is written in the Geneva Convention. There is a separate agreement on cluster munitions, which (surprise! surprise!) was signed by countries that do not produce such weapons. The Russian Federation, Ukraine, the USA, and even Poland have not signed such agreements.
      Quote: 75Sergey
      are not recognized, then this convention should not apply to those prisoners who came to us during the battle.

      You will be surprised, but there are two points here.
      1. There are prisoners on both sides.
      2. After the case with the Azov people in Yelenovka and the ongoing trial of them, the Russian side is already at great risk.
      Quote: 75Sergey
      our carriage with bolts in space

      You can't reach the GPS satellites with bolts, they are high up.
    4. 0
      3 October 2023 22: 44
      Quote: 75Sergey
      We pull and pull, but we can’t pull it out ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
      Maybe we can still mobilize and finish this fuss?
      In general, why are we silent about the Geneva Convention, which clearly states the inadmissibility of the use of cluster munitions?!
      Since they do not recognize it, then this convention should not apply to those prisoners who came to us during the battle.
      They have everything on GPS, where is our car with bolts in space?!

      What other “conventions” if there is no war?
  13. +10
    2 October 2023 07: 17
    The biggest problem is not atacmc, but the leadership of our country, which still has not blocked the western borders of Ukraine and supplies the Ukrainian Armed Forces with fuel
    1. +14
      2 October 2023 09: 06
      Blocking borders or attacking a transshipment hub in NATO countries will never happen. The reason can be seen in the image below.
      1. +11
        2 October 2023 09: 11
        And if you add a property map:((The joke about the attack on Voronezh already becomes a real option.
        1. 0
          2 October 2023 09: 36
          If you marked on such a map more areas for development, real estate or money placed on deposits, there would be no space on this map.
  14. +3
    2 October 2023 07: 39
    The lack of a decisive response from the command, expressed in statements rather than in deeds, can lead even the best army to increasingly dire consequences on the battlefield.
  15. +2
    2 October 2023 07: 43
    Well, ATACMS won't send us back to the stone age, but it will cause damage. Definite. And this is the death of our soldiers and equipment. Therefore, it is better that these missiles do not reach Ukraine.
    1. +14
      2 October 2023 09: 20
      Will send. Easily. If these missiles knock out the air defense and destroy our aircraft, then we will lose our last defense. Nuclear weapons will not be used. It takes balls or desperation. And the Ground Forces without the Air Force and Air Defense targets in the field. And even those are few. You just need to understand that no one has yet seriously begun to hammer away at our air defense. Just for reference. Air Group 1 Avika issues about 400 targets at a time. Both combat and false. 1 "Arly Burke" is about a hundred cruise missiles. Russian air defense has never attacked anything like this before. The same strike on Sevastopol was 5-FIVE CARL aircraft. Not 20, not 30. And only FIVE!. What will fifty aircraft do with air defense? I don't even want to think.
      1. +2
        2 October 2023 12: 29
        If this is so, what can the Russian Federation do in the current situation?
        1. +10
          2 October 2023 13: 03
          We need to start with ideology. Surprisingly. Remove this mess of effective friends of GDP. Stop repeating mantras about “sanctions are good for us”, “we are grinding” and other nonsense. To finally formulate simple and clear goals for this war. Stop begging for negotiations. Just realize that the war is ALREADY going on and will continue until the complete defeat of one of the sides. That you won't be able to jump off. That they can get it everywhere. Even if he escaped from the Russian Federation. Not us, but they will simply rip you off or beat you up simply because you are from Russia. Not today. so after 5 years.
          Just compare how in Ukraine they were not afraid to distribute weapons to ordinary people. and here we have terrbats running around with sticks. I understand that an armed people can “offend” several “respected” people. But it's either all of them.
      2. -1
        2 October 2023 12: 44
        Listen, do you think Putin doesn’t understand that defeat in this “special operation” means a XNUMX% civil war and the bloody collapse of the country with tens of millions of corpses in the future? Do you think he doesn’t understand that in case of defeat he won’t be able to hush everything up and pretend that nothing happened? That officers will begin to leave the army en masse, which will lead to the fact that the soldiers will flee (who will no longer have anyone to command), and weapons will be stolen from warehouses (which will no longer have anyone to guard them)? That immediately, first in the Caucasus, and then in other places, all those unfinished “caliphates” and “imarates” that the authorities can no longer cope with will raise their heads? That it will not be possible to negotiate forgiveness from the West, just as neither Milosevic, nor Hussein, nor Gaddafi succeeded? That in the West no one is waiting for him anywhere except in court? I'm sure he understands.
        1. +9
          2 October 2023 13: 38
          Quote: Jose
          XNUMX% civil war and bloody collapse of the country with tens of millions of corpses in the future?

          Excuse me, who will fight with whom?
          Quote: Jose
          Do you think he doesn’t understand that in case of defeat he won’t be able to hush everything up and pretend that nothing happened?

          And what will hinder?
          Quote: Jose
          That officers will begin leaving the army en masse

          Why would this be so? If they start handing them over to Ukraine, then yes, there may be discontent, but it is unlikely that it will come to that. Now officers have a risky life, when it becomes less risky they are unlikely to remain so dissatisfied.
          1. 0
            2 October 2023 22: 14
            Who will fight with whom? Have you forgotten about 1917? Yes, as a result of the defeat in WWI, we then ended up with two revolutions and a civil war. And at the beginning of 1917, too, no one was yet planning to organize a fratricidal massacre with millions of victims, and there was still no trace of any Reds, Whites, Greens, Petliurists, Makhnovists, Dashnaks, Musavatists, Basmachi, or all others in any significant quantities. And then suddenly they quickly appeared like mushrooms after the rain. Because a war for power has begun. And here it will begin as soon as the central government weakens to a critical level (God forbid). I have already mentioned one category of such “sleepers,” such as the Caucasian bandit underground.
            1. 0
              3 October 2023 00: 20
              Quote: Jose
              Who will fight with whom? Have you forgotten about 1917? Yes, as a result of the defeat in WWI, we then ended up with two revolutions and a civil war. And at the beginning of 1917, too, no one was yet planning to organize a fratricidal massacre with millions of victims, and there was still no trace of any Reds, Whites, Greens, Petliurists, Makhnovists, Dashnaks, Musavatists, Basmachi, or all others in any significant quantities. And then suddenly they quickly appeared like mushrooms after the rain. Because a war for power has begun. And here it will begin as soon as the central government weakens to a critical level (God forbid). I have already mentioned one category of such “sleepers,” such as the Caucasian bandit underground.

              Here we should rather compare not with 1917 in the Republic of Ingushetia, but with 1918 in Germany. Russia then destroyed itself, but Germany had purely external problems with the Entente.
              Well, one more thing: it was necessary to think about the consequences of a possible defeat at the beginning of the Northern Military District, but not after a year and a half
              1. 0
                3 October 2023 21: 27
                Quote from Escariot
                Here we should rather compare not with 1917 in the Republic of Ingushetia, but with 1918 in Germany. Russia then destroyed itself, but Germany had purely external problems with the Entente.

                So what, the SVO will go really bad like this? It’s hard to call me a SVO enthusiast, but comparison with WWII is probably too much.
                1. 0
                  7 October 2023 01: 57
                  Quote: Negro
                  Quote from Escariot
                  Here we should rather compare not with 1917 in the Republic of Ingushetia, but with 1918 in Germany. Russia then destroyed itself, but Germany had purely external problems with the Entente.

                  So what, the SVO will go really bad like this? It’s hard to call me a SVO enthusiast, but comparison with WWII is probably too much.

                  Did Germany have a bad time during WWII? During the entire war, not a single enemy soldier stepped on Reich soil. Well, maybe just a little in East Prussia in 1914, but that doesn’t count.
            2. +2
              3 October 2023 22: 47
              Quote: Jose
              Yes, as a result of the defeat in WWI, we then ended up with two revolutions and a civil war.

              Victim of the Unified State Exam? First, you, Your Imperial Majesty, received a successful military rebellion, then the military quarreled with the civil authorities, as a result, the civil authorities tried to assemble the SS on their knees, arming radicals and outcasts, after which these radicals and outcasts allied with gangs of marauders (naval and army) plundered the capital. All these events occurred before the military defeat and became its cause.
              Quote: Jose
              I have already mentioned one category of such “sleepers” like the Caucasian bandit underground

              That is, to listen to you, so as not to wake up the bandit underground (headed, as I understand it, by the Colonel General of the Ministry of Internal Affairs), we need to fight with the NATO puppets, to whom today they brought OTR, and tomorrow they bring aviation? Am I missing something?
              Quote: Jose
              It will be impossible to improve your reputation and answer the questions: “Why did they put so many people in prison!”, “Why did they spend so much money!”, “Why were the territories lost along with Crimea!”

              You will be surprised, but there is a wonderful answer to all these questions, and it is already known. Article 280.3 "Discredit..."
              Quote: Jose
              Moreover, we will receive several million angry and destitute refugees from both Donbass and Crimea, with all the ensuing consequences.

              Do you think they will be allowed in?
              Quote: Jose
              And when people like Northern Military District veterans and refugees, who will have nothing to lose, will come out to demonstrate

              Will the Americans also supply them with aircraft?
              Quote: Jose
              these will not be piled up, not prone to violent actions, much less bloodshed

              Something I didn’t notice was that supporters of Ukraine within the borders of the Russian Federation from October 2022 were naming something useful for themselves. And they certainly shouldn’t have problems with violence.
          2. 0
            2 October 2023 22: 25
            What will prevent you from hushing up defeat? Yes, the fact is that no propaganda, no inflated ratings, no soothing exhortations will be possible to improve one’s reputation and answer the questions: “Why did they put so many people in jail!”, “Why did they spend so much money!”, “Why the territories along with Crimea?” lost!" Moreover, we will receive several million angry and destitute refugees from both Donbass and Crimea, with all the ensuing consequences. And when people like Northern Military District veterans and refugees, who will have nothing to lose, come out to demonstrate, they will not be crowded, not prone to violent actions, much less bloodshed.
            1. 0
              3 October 2023 19: 30
              Let them drink and disperse, and whoever disagrees will get hit with a baton. This is not even my opinion, but of those who are now in power. For what you describe to happen, you need media independent of the state and freedom of speech, but in the current situation everything can easily be covered up with money.
          3. -1
            2 October 2023 22: 42
            And discontent in the army will begin with the fact that the army realizes that it has been abandoned. How they abandoned it in the late 80s - early 90s. Only here the scale of the scam will be much more monstrous against the backdrop of such bloodshed. No one would want to go into a profession where they were so screwed over. It will be natural. Officers are not robots, they have families, children, parents, and relatives. And they are waiting for them at home alive, healthy and victorious. And if they are exposed to defeat, they will naturally feel that why the hell do they need such a service and such a profession, and their family and friends will feel it too. They threw the army into Afghanistan, and with the countries of Eastern Europe, and with Baku, and with Tbilisi, and with Vilnius under Gorbach - in the end, the demoralized army did not come out to save the collapsing Union in 1991. Do you think Putin doesn’t remember this?
      3. +4
        2 October 2023 13: 24
        I’ll correct it so it doesn’t look like bravado: 5 planes launched 5 missiles of medium complexity for air defense as part of the 4th wave of drones and missiles, but before that there were 3 more waves of all kinds of tripe. I won’t talk about air defense overload, let there be just 5 aircraft left...
        1. +4
          2 October 2023 14: 56
          I understand that it wasn’t just 5 airplanes that flew up and fired. It’s just that if the 5th wave included not 5 aircraft, but 3-4 dozen, then we would have to say goodbye to the port of Sevastopol. At least the destruction would have been an order of magnitude greater. And 40 aircraft is what percentage of the capacity of the air bases of NATO countries nearby? 3-5%? This does not include the fleet.
          1. +1
            3 October 2023 07: 48
            I agree, we have no air defense for 40 aircraft near Sevastopol. But, firstly, Ukraine doesn’t either. And they don’t have that many missiles, so there is as much air defense there as is needed according to intelligence data, depending on the capabilities of Ukraine (I think it’s no secret that air defense is a thing that is always in short supply). Now additional systems from the Kuril Islands are being transferred to Sevastopol (when they realized that there is not enough air defense). Secondly, if the “airbases of NATO countries nearby” bomb Sevastopol with all their aviation capacity, then I really do not envy at least these bases (that’s why nothing flies from them in our direction) and, at most, the countries that allow themselves to do this (here in depending on the strength of the rounds in the pants)
      4. +4
        2 October 2023 16: 54
        To be fair, will the Avik survive if planes attack from it? You have drawn a scenario in which from an aircraft carrier group fifty aircraft of this group (not Ukrainian, of course) strike the Russian Federation. You understand that this is fantasy. And a massive missile launch from the same Arleigh Burke (from one???) is again the beginning of a full-scale war. With what result - I think you understand perfectly well. So we need to consider real situations. For example, a concentrated strike with these missiles (10-15 per salvo) on our airfields. With this attitude of placing aircraft in open parking, we will lose dozens of aircraft in 2-3 such strikes. This will be scary...
    2. +5
      2 October 2023 10: 57
      They will now reach Ryazan. And in the Kremlin they will smile.
  16. 0
    2 October 2023 08: 35
    I hear Gaspard-Gustave de Coriolis neighing.
    “At the same time, the payload compartment covers are dropped, and centrifugal force forces the bombs to fly along a rounded trajectory.”
    Did reconnaissance report that the submunition inside the warhead body is moving in a special spiral, which provides it with a rounded trajectory?
    Will a bullet also fly from a curved barrel along a rounded trajectory?
    1. +3
      2 October 2023 11: 25
      And if you put the gun on its side, you can shoot around the corner. smile
      1. 0
        2 October 2023 20: 39
        Quote: Alexey RA
        And if you put the gun on its side, you can shoot around the corner.

        What are you talking about!!! This is not about a gun! It was about a mortar!
        “And if you put it upside down, you can fire at air targets.” Because as a slavelaughing
    2. +2
      2 October 2023 14: 07
      bombs fly along a rounded trajectory
      Will a bullet also fly from a curved barrel along a rounded trajectory?
      Depends on what.
      Back in 1868, artillery general N.V. Maievsky, professor of ballistics at the Mikhailovsky Artillery Academy, proposed a project for a curved-barreled gun, loaded from the breech, in order to increase the firing range. When fired from an artillery system with the barrel bore curved upward, the “disk” mounted on the edge was pressed by centrifugal force to the top of the barrel and received the necessary rotation.
      Experimental firing in 1871–1873 confirmed the correctness of the calculations: a disk projectile weighing 3,5 kg, with an initial speed of 480 m/s, flew 2500 m, while a conventional cannonball of the same weight under the same conditions - only 500 m.
      He was one of the first to begin successful work on the creation of rifled guns.
      In Russia, three different disc gun systems are known and have survived to this day, developed by N.V. Maievsky, Andrianov and Plestsov. All three guns are on display at the Artillery Museum in St. Petersburg.
      Below. Trajectory of a flattened projectile (drawing from the article “Disk projectiles”, “Sytin’s Military Encyclopedia”)
      Magnus effect
      The effect was first described by the German physicist Heinrich Magnus in 1853.


      1. 0
        5 January 2024 04: 20
        Andrey, you should re-read what you publish yourself. And remove the stupid pictures. One thing is written, and another is drawn.
        1. 0
          15 January 2024 13: 03
          It would be necessary to see not only the names, but the connection between the phenomena. This is where the human reader should differ favorably from the vaunted AI. In addition, the pictures are located below to continue and develop the topic. The facts presented for comparison are, by and large, individually textbook, well-known, and banal.
  17. -1
    2 October 2023 09: 04
    ATACMS will of course be a new problem for us and our troops... Another... Until we realize (ordinary people, by the way, have been saying for a long time) that stop playing at being noble... They are waging war against us with all the means available to them. We finally (our leadership and all “clans”) need to solve this internal problem of ours and begin to use all the means available to us. This Nazi bastard thinks that we are weak... So we need to roughly show that we are not... Start with testing all types of specials. ammunition at the training ground, all and not just tactical. And at the same time. There we’ll see who’s weak...
    1. +21
      2 October 2023 09: 39
      There's no nobility there. There is weakness. And puffing out your cheeks. What the whole world is laughing at already. If you rob your country for 30 years, it’s somehow strange to expect good results.
    2. 0
      2 October 2023 10: 23
      Quote: Sergey_K
      ATACMS will of course be a new problem for us and our troops... Another... Until we realize (ordinary people, by the way, have been saying for a long time) that stop playing at being noble... They are waging war against us with all the means available to them. We finally (our leadership and all “clans”) need to solve this internal problem of ours and begin to use all the means available to us. This Nazi bastard thinks that we are weak... So we need to roughly show that we are not... Start with testing all types of specials. ammunition at the training ground, all and not just tactical. And at the same time. There we’ll see who’s weak...

      Yes, even Ukraine is not waging war with us, not to mention everyone else. So some kind of SVO. For some reason you want there to be a war like in the Great Patriotic War, but here we can’t pull off some kind of SVO normally.
  18. +2
    2 October 2023 09: 41
    “Still, the Russian army has at its disposal enough complexes capable of hitting targets such as a tactical missile. These are the Buk-M2, Buk-M3, S-300VM, S-300PM2 and S-400 complexes. Prove yourself effectively maybe “Pantsir”, because ATACMS missiles of the first releases are still closer to “Point U” than to “Iskander” in terms of their performance characteristics.”

    Yeah, we have it, but it flew to the Black Sea Fleet headquarters.

    “But nevertheless, there is a certain threat. And in terms of quantity, because if the word was said about 30 missiles, then the matter may not be limited to a hundred. Although, as the same Budanov said, even 100 missiles are nothing They will not be able to solve the situation at the front.

    So, of course, ATACMS is a problem for Russia in some sense. But not global, we have so many problems and more serious ones, so 30 missiles is, as they say, not the worst of the problems. "

    Certainly not the worst. Only now, I think that people who will have something like this fly into a residential building or into a military location, and it will still fly to them, will not agree with this.
    1. +2
      2 October 2023 11: 52
      Quote from AdAstra
      “Still, the Russian army has at its disposal enough complexes capable of hitting targets such as a tactical missile. These are the Buk-M2, Buk-M3, S-300VM, S-300PM2 and S-400 complexes. Prove yourself effectively maybe “Pantsir”, because ATACMS missiles of the first releases are still closer to “Point U” than to “Iskander” in terms of their performance characteristics.”

      Yeah, we have it, but it flew to the Black Sea Fleet headquarters.

      “But nevertheless, there is a certain threat. And in terms of quantity, because if the word was said about 30 missiles, then the matter may not be limited to a hundred. Although, as the same Budanov said, even 100 missiles are nothing They will not be able to solve the situation at the front.

      So, of course, ATACMS is a problem for Russia in some sense. But not global, we have so many problems and more serious ones, so 30 missiles is, as they say, not the worst of the problems. "

      Certainly not the worst. Only now, I think that people who will have something like this fly into a residential building or into a military location, and it will still fly to them, will not agree with this.

      The arrival of such a missile (even one out of ten launched) could knock out a couple of our planes at the airfield. Accordingly, airfields will have to be moved inland. It’s the same with folds and headquarters.
      And the fact that they gave only 30 of them is a trial batch. The United States is rearming with new missiles, and the old ones will be slowly disposed of in Ukraine.
    2. 0
      2 October 2023 13: 29
      In short, some of the missiles that were not shot down arrived at the headquarters as part of the 4th wave of various flying targets, the previous waves overloaded the air defense, and the missiles that hit were not the easiest for air defense. In principle, ours do the same, and now we ourselves have experienced this method
      1. +5
        2 October 2023 16: 58
        Then the air defense is worthless if it is overloaded with 10 simultaneous missiles. So-so protection. How to protect yourself from launches of hundreds of missiles???
        1. +1
          2 October 2023 18: 30
          There is a special charge if the number of targets is a multiple of the number of missiles on the launcher.
          But you need to have iron balls, otherwise even half of them couldn’t answer correctly in the tactics exam.
        2. +1
          3 October 2023 07: 58
          Actually, not only 10 storm missiles were flying, but a bunch of drones and simpler missiles at first. In addition, missiles are different from missiles - a tomahawk is easily knocked down, but a storm is more difficult. Due to the fact that air defense is not a pistol with a clip that you can reload in a second, the question arises - when will the storms fly in order to save the reserve and be guaranteed to shoot them down? Only the launcher knows
        3. 0
          3 October 2023 09: 40
          So: http://www.patriarchia.ru/db/text/6028585.html?ysclid=ln9xxh5kdv141039359
        4. 0
          3 October 2023 23: 04
          Quote: Alexander Simonov_2
          Then the air defense is worthless if it is overloaded with 10 simultaneous missiles. So-so protection. How to protect yourself from launches of hundreds of missiles???

          That's why it all ended in the end...
  19. +5
    2 October 2023 10: 00
    I think it's not as simple as it seems. The weapon is effective. They'll put in 30 and keep hammering away. If you like it, they'll give you 100. So what then? It's time to end things with Ukraine. Only our oligarchs will not give it.
    1. 0
      2 October 2023 11: 53
      Quote: Alexander Odintsov
      I think it's not as simple as it seems. The weapon is effective. They'll put in 30 and keep hammering away. If you like it, they'll give you 100. So what then? It's time to end things with Ukraine. Only our oligarchs will not give it.

      In addition to the fact that the oligarchs will not allow it, the constitution also directly prohibits it.
  20. 0
    2 October 2023 10: 08
    Quite a clever weapon! Hit well over a large area! In any case, Khodakovsky and Sladkov are now terrified and pissing hot water! M74 submunition fragment may be a good thing to get!
  21. 0
    2 October 2023 10: 22
    ......development began in 1992, and it was put into service in 1991? request
  22. 0
    2 October 2023 10: 29
    Quote: author
    So, of course, ATACMS is a problem for Russia in some sense. But not global, we have so many problems and more serious ones, so 30 missiles is, as they say, not the worst of the problems.

    The author doesn't understand salami at all.
    “Salami tactics” is a strategy in which a large goal is replaced by a sequence of small, intermediate goals.

    ...
    let the tanks not be handed over
    ....
    .....
    25.09.2023/70/1 The United States deployed a Mk 6 Mod XNUMX Expeditionary Launcher for medium- and shorter-range missiles Raytheon Standard SM-XNUMX on an island in the Baltic Sea
    >>you are here<<
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. +6
    2 October 2023 10: 40
    these problems have been known for a long time - since the deployment of "air defense areas" in Romania and Poland, but how did our Ministry of Defense react to such information - made changes to the production of such products within the framework of the state defense order? - no, why?
    When they said that they hit the S-300 launcher, what was our reaction? - a lie, and then we start - “sipping with a spoonful”
    There are almost no creative people in the Defense Ministry, not in the military-industrial complex, there are “official” people all around - as Kovalchuk said, and what can they do? - Nothing
    Therefore, all hope is for the “ordinary” guys at LBS.
  25. 0
    2 October 2023 10: 43
    ""The missile is not new, development began in 1992, and it was put into service in 1991."" How is that VO? wassat
  26. 0
    2 October 2023 11: 47
    Roman, you have a mistake: “development began in 1992, and production began in 1991.” Be careful.
    After their cluster shells, we also began to use similar ones.
    There was info on the site

    It was reported that America was going to supply missiles with a range of 120 km
    1. +1
      2 October 2023 13: 36
      Quote: vladcub
      Roman, you have a mistake: “development began in 1992, and production began in 1991.” Be careful.

      In March 1986, Ling-Temco-Vought won the contract to develop the rocket. The system was designated MGM-140.

      On 20 Dec 85, Army Acquisition Review Council (ASARC) leaders approved the Army TACMS program for Full Scope Development (FSD), which was subsequently approved by the Defense System Acquisition Review Council (DSARC) in Feb 86.

      On April 86, the AMC, DA and the Office of the Secretary of Defense (OSD) approved the TACMS International Armaments Army Armaments Cooperation Plan. Previously, in August 85, the AMC and DA approved the Army TACMS Rationalization, Standardization and Interoperability Plan. These documents formed the basis for NATO and allied participation in the Army TACMS program.

      On September 8, 86, the Army's TACMS test series of heavy rocket engines began.

      On March 5, 87, a series of tests of heavy rocket engines was successfully completed.

      On May 87, initial critical design work for the Army TACMS was completed.

      26 Apr 88 The Army's first TACMS engineering flight test was successfully launched at White Sands Missile Range (WSMR).

      In June 88, the DA directed work to begin on the Infrared Terminal Guided Submunition (IRTGSM) proof of principle (POP) program designed to further develop the technology and maintain IRTGSM as a viable submunition candidate for the Army TACMS Block II program.

      FY 89 Initial production (LRIP) of the Army's TACMS M39 guided missile and launch assembly began, which proved to be a very effective test bed for full-scale production plans and tooling (FSP), and for improving hardware design.

      30Jan89 The Army Acquisition Executive (AAE) authorized Army TACMS to proceed with a 1-year LRIP of 66 APAM Bloc I missiles

      On 5 February 90, the LRIP II contract was awarded for 104 M39s. It was completed on September 12, 90.
      And in 1991, 32 missiles were already fired from the M270 MLRS at targets in Iraq.

      Where did he get 1991 and 1992 mystery?
      1. 0
        2 October 2023 20: 45
        Quote: Reindeer herder_2
        Where did he get 1991 and 1992 mystery?

        No offense laughing . From where you got it
        Quote: Reindeer herder_2
        86 April AMC, DA and the Office of the Secretary of Defense (OSD) have approved...

        hi
  27. +5
    2 October 2023 12: 07
    How much water? It is clear that ATACMS weapons are dangerous and will kill military personnel and equipment. We have enough red lines for everything
  28. +4
    2 October 2023 12: 24
    Reading articles like this, you wonder how someone proposed to butt heads with NATO, what???? As I understand it, we don’t have such weapons, but if we do, how does Ukraine still have air defense left???
  29. -4
    2 October 2023 12: 34
    There will be problems, but not global ones. They need to be turned off, like the lights on New Year's: "With a light switch"
  30. +6
    2 October 2023 12: 42
    There have been many similar articles since '14. With even more cheers context.
    But when there is a weapon used, there is a problem.
    Until February 24, neither the residents of Russia had problems with ATACMS, nor did Ukraine have any problems with Calibers and other things.
    And now that's it. Demilitarization, de-Nazification, new regions in the name of peace and security
    There are problems.
    1. -3
      2 October 2023 13: 58
      Lies!
      In 2014, they threw 122 and hail, under Trutchinov with an egg sniffer, across Kramatorsk from Karachun... Ukry was watered with cluster munitions at Kramatorsk in 2015, under the resident PorosenG. From the side of Druzhkovka. And Point-U was startled in 2022, from exactly the same direction at the railway station, under Resident Ze...
  31. 0
    2 October 2023 13: 05
    Iskander also carries a cluster warhead, so why can’t they take out airfields and Ukrainian air defenses? And it’s time to put storage points into action.
    1. +1
      2 October 2023 13: 27
      Quote: Alex aircraft
      Iskander also carries a cluster warhead, so why can’t they take out airfields and Ukrainian air defenses?

      Ukraine receives ammunition for MGM-140 ATACMS, HIMARS, etc., etc. for free.
      OTR to Iskander RF for ₽.
      That's all
      1. -2
        3 October 2023 05: 17
        So let's print rubles and buy as many missiles as we want. Americans print and buy dollars, why can’t we? :)
    2. -1
      2 October 2023 19: 34
      Quote: alex aircraft
      Iskander also carries a cluster warhead, so why can’t they take out airfields and Ukrainian air defenses? And it’s time to put storage points into action.

      This is one of the reasons that Ukraine practically does not use aviation on the front line. Now we will have similar problems.
  32. +6
    2 October 2023 13: 11
    There are enough complexes capable of hitting targets such as a tactical missile. These are the Buk-M2, Buk-M3, S-300VM, S-300PM2 and S-400 complexes. “Pantsir” can also prove itself effectively

    By the way, where was all this when Sevastopol was ironed?
    We can guarantee that all this will be there when the atacms arrive...
  33. -6
    2 October 2023 13: 25
    Well, if you stop yelling that everything is lost once again and read experts, including air defense specialists, then there is nothing terrible in this missile. I read the experts and this is what I learned laughing
    First, what modification will be delivered to Ukraine? Obviously, either MGM-140A or 140B, because they were the ones that were made the most, and the newer MGM-164 and 168 are needed by the USA itself, the world is not calm.
    The 140A flies at 165 km, and the 140B at 300 km, which was bought by a strong castration of the warhead and both modifications do NOT carry a GPS correction unit and their CEP is stated to range from 250 to 100 meters, and not 5-15 as with the GPS unit. So the accuracy, so to speak, is for us, even with a cassette warhead, which scatters small fragments over a large area, which means the impact per unit area is relatively small. I do not belittle certain advantages of cluster warheads, but requests from the military have been repeatedly published specifically to equip the supplied missiles with powerful MONOBLOCKS!! Warhead

    If we are talking about interception capabilities, then ATACMS is simply an ideal target for our S-300/400. The M31 Himars shells were used mainly by Buks, Torahs and Pantsirs, since more serious systems simply did not have enough reaction time in range - the M31Chimera shells of relatively short range and the S-300/400 systems located deep behind the front line simply do not have time to deliver their anti-missile missile from the depths of our territory, that’s not what they are for and that’s normal! Now, much larger MGM-140 missiles (even though they are 164 and 168, the size, range, flight profiles are the same +-) will be detected literally “from the table” by all surveillance radars and are optimal in range, that is, in time reaction and ensuring a meeting with the missile defense. ATACMS speeds are not hypersonic at all, the maximum is 3,3M.
    Also, the ATACMS range has a plus for us - with one S-300 type complex we can cover the Huge! Area!, since the range reaction time is now sufficient!.
    Therefore, no one will move any warehouses or airfields anywhere; they are already highly dispersed and protected.
    1. +7
      2 October 2023 15: 01
      This is exactly what you will all be telling at the funerals of those whom these missiles will kill. For almost 2 years now I have been hearing about the “outdated and ineffective” weapons that are being transferred to the Ukrainian Armed Forces. But then why are we marking time? And the Ukrainian Armed Forces are hammering in Crimea and Belgorod and Kursk and even Moscow?
      1. -7
        2 October 2023 18: 58
        No need to be hysterical. This is war and people are killed all the time, we are discussing the weapons system.
        I don’t know where and what you hear, I didn’t write anything about outdated and ineffective, just based on the fact.
        We are marking time not because of the missiles, we have landed them (missiles) in Ukraine by an order of magnitude, if not two orders of magnitude more, and we are still defending ourselves, but why? The Ukrainians continue to significantly outnumber us in the size of their army, they have permanent mobilization and weapons are flowing like a river for many many tens of billions, if you don’t take the constant services of communications, reconnaissance, guidance and planning of operations by officers, which also costs a lot of money.
        We live in peacetime, no one has declared war, people live in
        in normal mode, no one is transferring industry onto a military footing; in the rear, they are not forming 5 new armies with a million soldiers to create numerical superiority and attack from 3-4 directions, etc.
        Well, in Moscow, Belgorod, Kursk - do you call it hammering? Isn't it funny yourself? Those rare drones? And what? Are these cities in ruins? Alive, that is, in Belgorod?
        In Crimea - Sevastopol destroyed? Is Rusnya running? All fleet bases? Ships at the bottom? Out of 10 Storm Shadows, 1 rocket breaks through, then 2, then zero!! And this despite the fact that there is no smell of anything there, purely NATO operations. Ukry there is good if they wipe the missiles with rags, but reconnaissance is NATO, communications is NATO, operation planning is NATO, aircraft and drones for additional reconnaissance and electronic warfare are NATO, attack aircraft are from former countries of Eastern Europe, essentially a branch of NATO, pilots in the planes - mercenaries from the same branches of NATO, missiles - NATO, means of objective control - the same NATO, where is everything?
        Well, nothing happens 100%, Americans online monitor our air defense and missiles are missed, what now? This is war! In your opinion, the American, British and French military should generally shoot their designers, judging by the meager number of hits in relation to the number of launches.
    2. +2
      2 October 2023 16: 17
      Quote: barbiturate
      Also, the ATACMS range has a plus for us - with one S-300 type complex we can cover the Huge! Area!, since the range reaction time is now sufficient!.

      Well said.

      In reality, the ATAKMS missile's trajectory is similar to the Elbrus missile, but smaller. There is only one known case of the S-300PMU operating against Elbrus in combat conditions (Azerbaijan), and it is not convincing.

      So we'll see how it goes.
      1. -7
        2 October 2023 19: 17
        You also speak beautifully when talking about the similarity of the trajectory of the same Scud to MGM -140, even if this is so, then what follows from this? In 1991, the Americans declared the effectiveness of Patrites from 20 to 100% over Scud B (Elbrus). 30 years have passed - the S-300 and S-400 complexes regularly operate on similar targets during exercises with excellent results and even without the participation of operators. So nothing is absolute, but in fact, ATACMS is not a difficult goal, rather, quite the opposite. Simply planning strikes by NATO can increase the chances of an air defense breakthrough, for example - due to overlaps, one air defense system will not protect another during scheduled maintenance repairs, relocation, etc. The Americans see all this in real time and immediately give the command to launch, but even in such conditions it is far from a fact that 10 out of 1 missiles will break through.
        1. 0
          3 October 2023 22: 28
          Quote: barbiturate
          In 1991, the Americans declared the effectiveness of Patrites from 20 to 100% over Scud B (Elbrus)

          In 91, the Patriots showed themselves mediocre against OTR. They were then sawed through.
          Quote: barbiturate
          30 years have passed - the S-300 and S-400 complexes regularly operate on similar targets during exercises with excellent results and even without the participation of operators

          With one clarification. Those are in battle, and these are in reports.
    3. -1
      2 October 2023 21: 22
      Quote: barbiturate
      Well, if you stop yelling that everything is lost once again and read experts, including air defense specialists, then there is nothing terrible in this missile. I read the experts and this is what I learned laughing
      First, what modification will be delivered to Ukraine? Obviously, either MGM-140A or 140B, because they were the ones that were made the most, and the newer MGM-164 and 168 are needed by the USA itself, the world is not calm.
      The 140A flies at 165 km, and the 140B at 300 km, which was bought by a strong castration of the warhead and both modifications do NOT carry a GPS correction unit and their CEP is stated to range from 250 to 100 meters, and not 5-15 as with the GPS unit. So the accuracy, so to speak, is for us, even with a cassette warhead, which scatters small fragments over a large area, which means the impact per unit area is relatively small. I do not belittle certain advantages of cluster warheads, but requests from the military have been repeatedly published specifically to equip the supplied missiles with powerful MONOBLOCKS!! Warhead

      If we are talking about interception capabilities, then ATACMS is simply an ideal target for our S-300/400. The M31 Himars shells were used mainly by Buks, Torahs and Pantsirs, since more serious systems simply did not have enough reaction time in range - the M31Chimera shells of relatively short range and the S-300/400 systems located deep behind the front line simply do not have time to deliver their anti-missile missile from the depths of our territory, that’s not what they are for and that’s normal! Now, much larger MGM-140 missiles (even though they are 164 and 168, the size, range, flight profiles are the same +-) will be detected literally “from the table” by all surveillance radars and are optimal in range, that is, in time reaction and ensuring a meeting with the missile defense. ATACMS speeds are not hypersonic at all, the maximum is 3,3M.
      Also, the ATACMS range has a plus for us - with one S-300 type complex we can cover the Huge! Area!, since the range reaction time is now sufficient!.
      Therefore, no one will move any warehouses or airfields anywhere; they are already highly dispersed and protected.

      So an attack on an airfield or warehouse is not just about launching missiles. This is a multi-stage operation with a gradual weakening of air defense. You remember the attack on our air defense system in Crimea, right? This is one of the stages of such an offensive. UAVs fly freely over the Dzharilgach Bay, which means the air defense in the southern part of the Kherson region can no longer resist them. Now even in Crimea itself, air defense is under attack. The hole in the defense is widening. And the ATTACKS will be launched into this hole.
      1. 0
        3 October 2023 04: 37
        That is, when about 80% of the M31 Khaimars missiles were shot down (now the percentage is even higher, the warheads of the missiles and complexes have been modified) - these were not multi-stage operations with the full participation of NATO? Or shooting down 80 to 100% of Scalp missiles? Did they just launch it like that, without multi-stage planning? Yes, NATO constantly monitors the situation with huge detachments of forces and means, and NATO’s attack on the complex in Crimea from the rear has long been described by specialized specialists, and conclusions have been drawn.
        About freely flying Ukrainians!!! drones over the bay - I don’t know anything, but I am well aware of reconnaissance drones and NATO aircraft constantly hovering off the coast of Crimea. Naturally, for now, in any case, they are not shooting at NATO, but simply observing.
        I don’t understand at all what hole in the defense you are talking about, and even into it (the hole laughing ) ATTACKS will be launched...
        By destroying a couple of three launchers of the complex, either S-300 or S-400, did NATO create a “huge” hole? Can you imagine the number of similar and various other air defense systems in service with the Russian army? laughing
        Well, the fact that NATO will sometimes achieve success is normal; they also think, analyze, look for loopholes, and select the keys to our air defense. Our situation is complicated by the fact that NATO members can strike at us when they see a weak spot somewhere, because they are “Ukrainians” laughing , but we don’t openly shoot at their planes and drones yet.
        1. -2
          3 October 2023 14: 28
          Quote: barbiturate
          That is, when about 80% of the M31 Khaimars missiles were shot down (now the percentage is even higher, the warheads of the missiles and complexes have been modified) - these were not multi-stage operations with the full participation of NATO? Or shooting down 80 to 100% of Scalp missiles? Did they just launch it like that, without multi-stage planning? Yes, NATO constantly monitors the situation with huge detachments of forces and means, and NATO’s attack on the complex in Crimea from the rear has long been described by specialized specialists, and conclusions have been drawn.
          About freely flying Ukrainians!!! drones over the bay - I don’t know anything, but I am well aware of reconnaissance drones and NATO aircraft constantly hovering off the coast of Crimea. Naturally, for now, in any case, they are not shooting at NATO, but simply observing.
          I don’t understand at all what hole in the defense you are talking about, and even into it (the hole laughing ) ATTACKS will be launched...
          By destroying a couple of three launchers of the complex, either S-300 or S-400, did NATO create a “huge” hole? Can you imagine the number of similar and various other air defense systems in service with the Russian army? laughing
          Well, the fact that NATO will sometimes achieve success is normal; they also think, analyze, look for loopholes, and select the keys to our air defense. Our situation is complicated by the fact that NATO members can strike at us when they see a weak spot somewhere, because they are “Ukrainians” laughing , but we don’t openly shoot at their planes and drones yet.


          Here is a screenshot from a video from a drone with an attack on the island of Dzharilgach (YouTube will show you the video itself in the first search line) 5 shots - 5 arrivals. Check it out so you don’t write nonsense about “80% of M31s shot down.”
          1. +1
            3 October 2023 17: 33
            Quote from Escariot
            Here is a screenshot from a video from a drone with an attack on the island of Dzharilgach (YouTube will show you the video itself in the first search line) 5 shots - 5 arrivals. Check it out so you don’t write nonsense about “80% of M31s shot down”


            What you write is nonsense, but when analyzing the details you need specifics - when this video was made, where they shot, who covered it, etc.
            Now they shoot down not 80%, but more than 90%!! Haymars missiles - naturally, if the target is covered by an air defense system. As any person understands, it is impossible to cover everything all the time, especially with NATO’s intelligence capabilities.
            The video clearly shows that no one is working on the drone, although it is at a high altitude and its fellow drones in more important directions were quickly knocked out (the same Bayraktar). It is also clear that the unit or targets, for one reason or another, are not covered by air defense, so what? We conclude that air defense cannot shoot down Haymars missiles? You advise your people to shoot at sea - there will be a 100% pass from the air defense laughing laughing

            By the way, the impact results have not been assessed, but the last frames of one hit show that they hit an empty spot, perhaps the electronic warfare was covering it - Khaimars immediately gives an error of about 50-70 meters in accuracy.
            1. -2
              7 October 2023 02: 02
              Quote: barbiturate
              Quote from Escariot
              Here is a screenshot from a video from a drone with an attack on the island of Dzharilgach (YouTube will show you the video itself in the first search line) 5 shots - 5 arrivals. Check it out so you don’t write nonsense about “80% of M31s shot down”


              What you write is nonsense, but when analyzing the details you need specifics - when this video was made, where they shot, who covered it, etc.
              Now they shoot down not 80%, but more than 90%!! Haymars missiles - naturally, if the target is covered by an air defense system. As any person understands, it is impossible to cover everything all the time, especially with NATO’s intelligence capabilities.
              The video clearly shows that no one is working on the drone, although it is at a high altitude and its fellow drones in more important directions were quickly knocked out (the same Bayraktar). It is also clear that the unit or targets, for one reason or another, are not covered by air defense, so what? We conclude that air defense cannot shoot down Haymars missiles? You advise your people to shoot at sea - there will be a 100% pass from the air defense laughing laughing

              By the way, the impact results have not been assessed, but the last frames of one hit show that they hit an empty spot, perhaps the electronic warfare was covering it - Khaimars immediately gives an error of about 50-70 meters in accuracy.

              First, this drone flew over the island of Dzharilgach and flew at our positions, then the same one flew over the western Crimea and flew at an air defense battery. Thus, the north-west of Crimea is not a particularly important direction. Clear.
  34. -1
    2 October 2023 13: 39
    "...The rocket is not new, development began in 1992 year, and it was adopted into service in 1991-m."(from)
    It's cool - they put it into service before they started developing it!
  35. +2
    2 October 2023 14: 41
    Scalp, Storm Shadow, F-16, Atacms! It turns out that now you can supply Ukraine with any weapon that is available! And there will be no reaction from the Russian leadership to this! And how many threatening and formidable speeches there were at the very beginning of the North Military District!
    By the way, mattress pads recently deployed a powerful missile battery with Typhon supersonic missiles in the Baltic Sea!
  36. +4
    2 October 2023 15: 18
    Quote: Aaron Zawi
    Quote from Silver99
    From this extensive article, one simple, brief conclusion can be drawn: we must destroy the weapons coming to Ukraine at the transshipment bases and ports of Poland and Germany, and no one will blather about Article 5 of the NATO Charter, they have already, in fact, violated it themselves.

    I wonder why the Americans didn’t sink Soviet ships that were carrying missiles with which they shot down hundreds of American planes?

    Because their “point” was not ironclad, because at that time our country and its armed forces were led by people who had gone through the war and who knew how to make..."simple decisions", unlike today... . sad
    1. 0
      3 October 2023 00: 22
      Why didn’t we sink or shoot down American and European ships and planes that were carrying weapons to Pakistan for the Afghan dushmans in the 80s? For the same reason that the Americans did not touch our ships that went with weapons to Vietnam. Although - there were a couple of incidents and several of our merchant marine sailors died from American bombs - but Brezhnev did not start World War III because of this.
    2. -1
      3 October 2023 22: 31
      Quote: Radikal
      Because their “point” was not ironclad, because at that time our country and its armed forces were led by people who had gone through the war and who knew how to make..."simple decisions", unlike today... .

      Because the doctrine of limited war was just beginning to be developed, and the solution to the problem of isolating the theater of operations was not properly thought out. And the importance of such isolation was not correctly appreciated.
  37. 0
    2 October 2023 16: 14
    In general, missiles with a flight range of 140 to 220 km, and the first releases of ATACMS did not fly over long distances, are not so scary.

    Yes indeed! Well, these not-so-terrible missiles will kill some of our soldiers, some women, some children. The author looks from below the clouds. Not so scary missiles don't reach there.
  38. +1
    2 October 2023 21: 05
    In short, airfields, warehouses in Crimea, the fleet, Sevastopol in the next month or two will experience the blow of the Atacams. This is 100%
  39. +5
    2 October 2023 22: 16
    Our country is not ready for “war” at all. We only have gallant infantry, which can be deployed to resolve a local micro-conflict, and nuclear weapons. And everything else that should be between the infantry and nuclear weapons is either missing or found in single copies. It’s trivial that there are no tanks, since all sorts of rubbish is taken from storage to the North Military District and all sorts of pepelats are invented there using duct tape and a sledgehammer. Moreover, if you put aside the legacy of the scoop, then atas in general.
  40. -1
    3 October 2023 00: 09
    new American missiles - thousands of corpses of Russian citizens. It is impossible to scare anyone in NATO with our tough response. we are weak....and they see that.
  41. +1
    3 October 2023 00: 15
    If it is a ballistic missile, then what is the difficulty of intercepting it?!
  42. 0
    3 October 2023 00: 15
    Quote: Jose
    And discontent in the army will begin with the fact that the army realizes that it has been abandoned. How they abandoned it in the late 80s - early 90s. Only here the scale of the scam will be much more monstrous against the backdrop of such bloodshed. No one would want to go into a profession where they were so screwed over. It will be natural. Officers are not robots, they have families, children, parents, and relatives. And they are waiting for them at home alive, healthy and victorious. And if they are exposed to defeat, they will naturally feel that why the hell do they need such a service and such a profession, and their family and friends will feel it too. They threw the army into Afghanistan, and with the countries of Eastern Europe, and with Baku, and with Tbilisi, and with Vilnius under Gorbach - in the end, the demoralized army did not come out to save the collapsing Union in 1991. Do you think Putin doesn’t remember this?

    IMHO, you have nonsense and distortions of facts on all counts. Revolutions and civil revolutions were the result of long-standing socio-economic contradictions in society; the war served only as a catalyst. The peasants who formed the basis of the population and, accordingly, the army, did not care about victory, as well as the Bosporus and Dardanelles, to put it mildly. And what made revolutions inevitable was precisely the desire to win at any cost, as, by the way, in Germany and Austria-Hungary. Nowadays, the military is paid well and most of them want most of all to return home alive and preferably in one piece. And a much smaller percentage have a rifle hanging on their shoulder than in WWI. Even if people go to rallies, it will not be for the continuation of the war.
    In 1991, the army was ready to carry out orders; they simply did not exist, or there was something ambiguous, incomprehensible to the direct thinking of the military.
    1. 0
      3 October 2023 21: 37
      Quote from Tim666
      IMHO, you have nonsense and distortions of facts on all counts. Revolutions and civil revolutions were the result of long-standing socio-economic contradictions in society; the war served only as a catalyst. The peasants who formed the basis of the population and, accordingly, the army, did not care about victory, as well as the Bosporus and Dardanelles, to put it mildly

      I am forced to note that no one has ever asked the peasants for their opinion on issues of state construction. The crisis of 17-18 goals was a pure crisis of controllability: the Sovereign, the army and the civil administration became indifferent to each other to such an extent that they could not do anything at all. As a result, power was seized by a small group of radical intellectuals, who managed to organize a parallel and only functioning management structure. This structure performed exceptionally poorly, but all the others were completely disabled.

      Now the Russian Federation's control system is not even close to this level of collapse.
  43. +2
    3 October 2023 09: 38
    These missiles do not pose any threat to the Russian Federation. The Russian Federation has a remedy against them:
    .... Quote: "On May 17-18, 2023, the aviation forces of the National Guard troops and the sector for interaction with the Russian Guard of the Synodal Department for interaction with the Armed Forces and Law Enforcement Agencies conducted overflights with the miraculous image of St. Seraphim of Sarov of the territories of the Russian Federation located in the zone potential threat from enemy unmanned aerial vehicles.

    The flights were carried out with the blessing of the Chairman of the Synodal Department for Cooperation with the Armed Forces and Law Enforcement Agencies, Metropolitan Kirill of Stavropol and Nevinnomyssk."
    http://www.patriarchia.ru/db/text/6028585.html?ysclid=ln9xxh5kdv141039359
    ...Just think - some kind of missiles!? Yes, we will disperse them with the Icon!
    P.S. This pseudo-patriotism is already fucked. The other day I was listening to a broadcast about the shelling of Shchebekino. The announcer bravuraly stated that the residents of this settlement did not even notice the shelling. And even then, what bullshit - artillery shelling.
  44. 0
    3 October 2023 12: 22
    Will the US supply Ukroreich with these missiles?
    Surely?
    Will the Nazis try to strike at “old” Russia - of course.
    The question is which cities this abomination reaches.
  45. +1
    5 October 2023 09: 46
    As soon as we get the “tinsel”, we’ll start scratching the “turnip”, but until the thunder strikes, you don’t have to strain yourself! laughing
  46. +1
    6 October 2023 07: 13
    These are the lives of our soldiers.
    It is necessary to destroy military hubs in Poland and Romania.
    1. -2
      7 October 2023 02: 03
      Quote: Omega option
      These are the lives of our soldiers.
      It is necessary to destroy military hubs in Poland and Romania.

      Then we will have to fight with NATO and as a result many more of our soldiers will die.
  47. 0
    12 December 2023 11: 17
    Pour moi, la Russie a déjà perdu. elle est incapable d'envahir l'Ukraine...tous les pays du monde n'ont plus de respect pour la Russie... ils se disent que, tant que les états Unis existent, la Russie ne pourra jamais nous envahir.. .la Russie n'a pas la même capacité de nuisance des états Unis... imaginez les états Unis a la place de la Russie en Ukraine..la guerres était déjà terminée
  48. 0
    6 January 2024 08: 20
    That is why these missiles must be destroyed as soon as they enter Ukrainian territory. So there is work for intelligence.