New submachine gun OTs-69

65
The Tula Instrument Engineering Design Bureau again pleases with a new sample weaponswhich is very unusual this time. As you know, an automaton is a weapon that is far from always suitable for combat in urban conditions and indoors, as in the first case there is a risk of hitting the civilian population, due to the relatively long range of the bullet, and in the second there is a risk of bounce from the walls. Naturally, for machine guns there are cartridges with a reduced rebounding ability, but the stopping effect of these munitions remains far from ideal. For this reason, the designers have developed a weapon chambered for .45АСР, and even gave it a 30-mm grenade launcher. But first things first.

As is clear from ammunition, the weapon is a submachine gun. The layout of the PP is bulpap, the weapon can be equipped with a removable device for silent firing, which, combined with a silent grenade launcher, makes the device doubly interesting. It is noteworthy in the weapons located controls. So the firing of the PP and from a grenade launcher is controlled by only one trigger, the switching between the parts of the weapon is carried out by a separate switch on the left side of the weapon above the pistol grip. To switch the automatic and single fire there is a switch on the right side of the weapon above the pistol grip. The handle of the bolt is placed under the handle for carrying the weapon, the upper surface of which is also a seat for additional sighting devices. From the back and the front of the handle there are open sights, which are a rear sight and a front sight, which are designed for firing distances from weapons to 150 meters, which is due to ammunition.

New submachine gun OTs-69Unfortunately, so far not everything is known about weapons and ammunition, but something can be assumed. So in many preliminary reviews they say that the speed of a bullet was reduced to 200 meters per second, increasing the weight of the bullet. Personally, I doubt it, but the fact that the ammunition is not quite normal can be allowed, although it is unlikely. The cartridges for a submachine gun seem to be more or less clear, there is nothing fundamentally new about them, but the grenade launcher raises a number of questions. One could assume that the grenade launcher works on the same principle as the grenade launcher part of the Canary, but the magazine with idle ammunition is not visible in the grenade launcher handle, or I simply look bad. The only possible option for maintaining the noiselessness of the grenade launcher part can only be the principle of SP-4 cartridges, but this is only an assumption, so we will wait for accurate data a little later.

Separately, it should be said about the weapon shop, which does not look quite usual, having too much thickness. This four-row store is far from new in its design. So the store itself is two double-row stores with rebuilding in one row in one case, only cartridges are not rebuilt in one row, but in two. In general, it’s quite difficult to explain on the fingers, so it’s better to show a picture of what such a shop. Magazine capacity is equal to 40 cartridges, which partially compensates for its size. However, the weapon has a sufficiently large thickness, and therefore its weight will also be decent, and if the thickness in this case has little effect on the ease of handling the weapon, then the weight can be a serious obstacle to the spread of such a submachine gun.

It is interesting that the butt of the weapon is made adjustable, and its considerable thickness will only have a positive effect on compensation for the recoil of the weapon when fired. In general, this particular submachine gun must be very well controlled due to its layout and pistol cartridge.

Despite the fact that little is known about weapons so far, I think this is exactly the type that was lacking. In comparison with machine guns, this machine gun should not only be safer when firing in a city with civilians, but also more effective because of the greater stopping power of the .45ACP cartridge. Although there is another side: for targets protected by high-class personal armor, this machine gun will work with very little efficiency. In short, this weapon is necessary, but how effective it will be depends on how it is used - deliberately or not.

PS In the picture, the store is not specifically from this PP, but similar in design.
65 comments
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  1. +15
    2 January 2013 11: 28
    For PP, it seems to be too big. And why a grenade launcher? In general, until there is a video, nothing really can be said. And most importantly: for whom and for what tasks was the weapon created?
    1. avt
      +3
      2 January 2013 11: 31
      Assault unit for special forces
      1. avt
        0
        2 January 2013 11: 57
        And who did the exhaust then?
        1. +8
          2 January 2013 16: 12
          Remarkably, the controls are located in the weapon. So firing from PP and from a grenade launcher controlled by only one trigger, switching between parts of the weapon is carried out by a separate switch on the left side arms above the pistol grip


          This is VERY bad ... in the heat of battle you can forget what you switched, especially in an emergency when the behavior model automatically works ... and so the soldier, by chance, and jobnet on the target instead of the cartridge with a grenade.
          1. Salut71
            0
            3 January 2013 14: 25
            for sure. especially in cramped conditions. It’s dangerous too.
          2. +2
            3 January 2013 22: 15
            for this purpose they’re training so that they wouldn’t mandroze in the heat of battle wink
        2. +3
          3 January 2013 18: 15
          Quote: avt
          And who did the exhaust then?

          Well, not otherwise than for a sniper, fellow
    2. +2
      2 January 2013 12: 59
      The author is a little lost! What kind of preservation of noiselessness does he speak of when it will not be clear to me when the grenades break?
      1. Tjumenec72
        +3
        2 January 2013 13: 30
        It means that the person who launched it will remain unnoticed)
        1. -3
          3 January 2013 07: 50
          Tjumenec72,

          You blurted out nonsense for which you plusanuli is not clear too?

          What should happen where you launched the grenade ?? Hundred fighters vnutnet ?? God grant two or three hurt! ! !

          Already in battle, you need to smoke a grenade from cover, psychologically put pressure, well, you can still shell up an enemy in the room!

          To kill an underbarrel grenade of this caliber is very difficult! ! ! Just a direct hit or almost!

          Use it with the first shot - to make the enemy go astray and leave? Stupidity!

          I repeat the question - WHO IS SILENCE ?????
          1. +2
            3 January 2013 11: 19
            Just the same in this case refers to the silent shot) And the grenade, yes nifiga not silent))) How justified this is another question, but the author is not confused wink
            1. Tjumenec72
              +3
              3 January 2013 14: 02
              "Silence" (canary - 5.45)

              The most interesting component of the complex can be considered a 30-mm silent grenade launcher. The grenade launcher is adjacent to the lower part of the forend and the barrel of the machine, which has the corresponding attachment points. Thus, unlike the 40-mm grenade launcher GP-25 "Koster" (GP-30 "Obuvka"), the silent grenade launcher cannot be attached to any standard machine gun. The ammunition for the grenade launcher is a 30-mm cumulative grenade. Due to the peculiarities of the device of the weapon, the grenade does not have a propellant charge. For throwing a grenade, the energy of powder gases of a special propelling cartridge is used.
              The throwing cartridge is created on the basis of the sleeve of a standard automatic cartridge 7,62 x 39. Unlike regular single automatic cartridges, the throwing cartridge sleeve is not extended. The sleeve of the cartridge case is crimped with an asterisk, as in conventional blank cartridges. Throwing cartridges are equipped in a special store, which is located in the pistol grip of a grenade launcher. Magazine capacity - 10 rounds.

              The grenade launcher is equipped with a longitudinally-sliding rifle-type bolt, which reloads the grenade launcher with throwing cartridges from the breech of the weapon and locks the barrel. In this case, the grenade launcher is muzzle-loading, because grenade is introduced into the barrel of the grenade launcher from the muzzle part. The grenade is held in the barrel by spring bends in the barrel walls. In flight, the grenade is stabilized by rotation - on the grenade body there are ready-made protrusions that, when loading the grenade, enter into the grooves of the barrel channel, just like in the GP-25 (GP-30) grenade launcher. But in this case, the rifling is not 12, but 3.

              Powder gases during the firing of a projectile cartridge do not directly affect the bottom of the grenade, but on a special piston that pushes the grenade out of the bore and locks (cuts off) the powder gases in the chamber, which ensures a noiseless and flameless shot. The initial speed of the grenade is 100 m / s.
          2. Tjumenec72
            +2
            3 January 2013 13: 54
            Well, leave the tactics for specialists.
            If such a device were not needed it would not have been done.
            Since the 70s, they have been using "Silence" and "Canary", and this sample is expanding the assortment, so to speak.
            How much demand is not for us to decide ...

            LEARN MATCH!
          3. +3
            3 January 2013 13: 58
            I repeat the question - WHO IS SILENCE ?????

            an ambush, the soldiers go without suspecting anything and then .. bang boom, shandarah, and the most nasty thing is not clear from where, actually before this "freak" there was a "canary" to AKM.
    3. kigot
      -2
      4 January 2013 03: 55
      The weapon is designed for combat in urban environments and indoors. Why is this needed? With a deterioration in the standard of living, the protest mood of people will need to be reassured by someone and something, that’s what kind of toys come up for the money of the same people.
      1. Tjumenec72
        +1
        4 January 2013 20: 12
        you forgot about the furious mention)))
        - Failure, they will not pay after all)))
    4. Quiet
      0
      8 January 2013 18: 00
      Judging by all this, it was developed about 10 years ago. It was done for the future. But the state refuses to pay for future developments, so it is necessary to develop at its own expense and then, when the time comes to trade, taking into account the lost profit over the years.
      Otsel and high prices. And you shouldn’t forget about kickbacks ...
      defense bastards ......
  2. Town Guard
    +12
    2 January 2013 11: 34
    An interesting review. I would like to add -
    "The Tula Instrument-Making Design Bureau again pleases with a new weapon, which this time is very unusual."
    Unusual samples were already being created in Tula, so not only this time an unusual sample was presented to us. Recall at least one of the first machines in the bullpup layout - TKB-408. And other Korobov bullpups (by the way, there are many bullpups created in Tula - A-91M , ADS, ASH-12 - and OTs-69 now now) In the pictures, the TKB-022 series machines.
  3. Fox
    +4
    2 January 2013 11: 41
    according to the declared qualities, yy is complete ... as an officer of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, I don’t even know where to apply it ... can we scare the kids?
    1. +3
      3 January 2013 10: 47
      Quote: Fox
      I don’t even know where it can be applied ... can we scare the kids?


      It is interesting that the rifle-grenade launcher (how to call it more correctly and not PP) was presented back in September. But so far there is not a word about him. The question arises of how to swing such a rather bulky oar in the conditions of an urban "(apartment") battle with such a glushak and even a grenade launcher on one trigger. It is unclear ... for paintball such a thing is just right ... or for the entertainment of the oligarchs
  4. Proton122mm
    +2
    2 January 2013 11: 53
    I wonder how in the store cartridges are pushed in the phase of final adjustment in 1 row? (in the neck of the store)? the barrel is interesting
    1. predator.3
      +1
      2 January 2013 21: 24
      Yes, the store is interesting, the AK-12 probably uses the same principle, I mean a store with 60 rounds.
    2. Passing
      +1
      3 January 2013 20: 12
      Quote: Proton122mm
      I wonder how in the store cartridges are pushed in the phase of final adjustment in 1 row?

      The left pusher stops, resting against the stamping in the store, the right continues to move to the end. This scheme is from the founder of 4-row shops - Finnish Suomi.
      Our version of the 4 row:

      The truth is our problem - it’s worth shaking it well, and the cartridges are poured in a heap, I don’t know how ours will solve this problem.
  5. +4
    2 January 2013 11: 58
    Good modern weapons cannot be created without the scientific search and manufacture of new designs. They will now test and answers to many questions will be found.
  6. +6
    2 January 2013 12: 14
    In the RF Armed Forces, submachine guns can only be used to equip crews of various equipment, but for this it is too huge. For the Ministry of Internal Affairs as an assault, it is also doubtful. Where and whom to storm something with him? For operations in the same Chechnya, the ammunition is clearly not sufficient either in terms of power or in firing range. For example, there have often been cases when various types of internal affairs agencies, usually first sent to Chechnya, were taken for missions as the main weapon of the APS. After the first clash, they clogged their APS to hell and grabbed a machine gun and preferably a caliber of 7,62. If the assault is supposed to be an ordinary criminal locked up in an apartment (in a car, a hostage bus, etc.), then why is noiselessness and a grenade launcher?
    1. +3
      2 January 2013 14: 57
      No need to compare the APS and this unit ... and the classes are different and most importantly the ammunition is different ... .45ACP is much more powerful than not only the old 9x18 pm but 9x19 .. but by stopping action it leaves them far behind .... just the same for special units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB and he needed
      (well, maybe the army specialists will come in handy) it is not always necessary to eliminate someone, but at close distances .45АСР in some cases is more effective than a submachine gun ... another example: a battle in a building, as already mentioned in the article, submachine gun cartridges are prone to ricochets ... pistol cartridges because of their shape and low speed, they are less susceptible to this ailment ... it is for this reason that in many Spec. units are used for lack of the best (I say this because in some cases the power of even this weapon turns out to be superfluous) weapons chambered for 9x39 ... it "behaves" better in comparison with the 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 submachine guns ... as you think: Why in many special divisions of the world I use PP in dimensions that are not inferior to a full-fledged machine gun (assault rifle)? that's exactly what I wrote ...
      PS most likely this weapon will not become mass and therefore all arguments in favor of the complexity and high cost of such weapons fall away ... and for other crews of armored vehicles and the calculation of group weapons other BCPs are developed and are developing ... only when they are put into service and most importantly I’ll go to the troops - a big question
      1. +2
        2 January 2013 19: 41
        Quote: Andrew
        No need to compare aps and this unit

        So who compares them?
        Quote: Andrew
        different ammunition

        In this case, one class - pistol. In addition, I do not analyze the ammunition used as such, but consider a rifle complex, in this case a "pistol-machine-gun-grenade launcher" (about how smile ).
        Quote: Andrew
        Well, maybe army specialists come in handy

        Not useful. And so on ourselves we carry two trunks, and also this bandurina with incomprehensible prospects. Do not confuse "Alpha" and others like them with special forces groups - some work out the address and leave, others wander around the greenery for days and where in the "next minute" they will be brought by the commander's will do not know, respectively, to foresee what type of weapon they may suddenly need do not know, but to wear, just in case, the entire "nomenclature" of GRAU somehow does not work.
        Quote: Andrew
        machine gun cartridges are prone to ricochets ... pistol cartridges are less prone to this ailment due to their shape and low speed

        Who is arguing? I’ll just repeat, if we care so much that our ricochet can hurt the shooter or the civilian, and the weapon is tailored specifically for work in buildings, then why the hell do we have a grenade launcher? If it is intended to lead the battle as outside the buildings as during the war anti-terrorist operation in Chechnya, then what for me a barrel with pistol ammunition? Personally, I have never seen PP at the Ministry of Internal Affairs and FSB groups in our "beloved republic". The maximum that they had similar to this monster was this "Thunderstorm".
        Quote: Andrew
        how do you think

        I don’t know your age, but I don’t have to poke anyway.
        Quote: Andrew
        why in many special units of the world I use PP

        You understand what they are used for. Have you seen their grenades?
        Quote: Andrew
        PP in size not inferior to a full-fledged assault rifle (assault rifle)

        Actually used
        Quote: Andrew
        in many special units of the world
        PP much inferior in size.
        Quote: Andrew
        that's exactly what I wrote ...

        Do you even understand what you wrote? That is, if the PP is gigantic, then the munition used by it has a less tendency to ricochet? laughing Or did I misunderstand you?
      2. Passing
        +2
        3 January 2013 20: 26
        Quote: Andrew
        .45ACP is much more powerful than not only the old 9x18 pm but 9x19

        It is a myth. The muzzle energy of .45ACP is somewhere around 474 J, which is much less than that of the standard NATO 9x19, and one and a half times lower than that of 9x19 P ++, or for example our 7H31.
        Actually, it is the low muzzle energy (less recoil) and the strongly subsonic speed of the bullet (less sharp, extended over time) that makes shooting from the M1911 colt more comfortable compared to 9x19 pistols.
  7. +9
    2 January 2013 12: 15
    Fox,
    My modest experience of 27 years in the same system says that the weapon is interesting both for the army special forces and for purely police operations, since the Kalashnikov line is of little use for the police, and everything produced in the form factor of the submachine gun is ineffective.
    1. Fox
      +2
      2 January 2013 20: 29
      Navuxonastupil,
      Quote: Navuxonastupil
      fox, My modest experience of 27 years in the same system says that the weapon is interesting both for the army special forces and for purely police operations, since the Kalashnikov line is of little use for the police, and everything produced in the form factor of the submachine gun is ineffective .


      in addition to the AK-line, we had KLIN, KEDR, 9A91, PP90, pp93, PSM.PM ... etc., the choice is, at least eat it! is it still necessary ?!
  8. +18
    2 January 2013 12: 36
    WHERE TO BUY? Against the Svobodovites it is necessary !!!!! laughing
    1. +1
      2 January 2013 23: 51
      again Sigerous Mod new wait ....
      1. 0
        2 January 2013 23: 57
        Guys, look at Zaurus, Dagger will definitely like it! wassat
    2. 0
      3 January 2013 00: 11
      I sleep I also played sometimes laughing You walk along the fence where the flight explodes, you shoot snipers from the towers along the way, you reach the "front door", similarly you quietly shoot Gavrikov. And then for the bags and accurate shots of all who trample on you, there will be a little who want to))) Then a little forward and again we shoot, slowly we take out everyone, the main thing is to have somewhere to scratch and what to hide behind) In general, we play a suicide bomber, who is too lazy wiggle the rolls. And, yes, sometimes look behind the ass, from there, 2-5 people can come. It's PM smile
    3. +1
      3 January 2013 00: 28
      Quote: Egoza
      WHERE TO BUY? Against the Svobodovites it is necessary !!!!!

      I am second in line for you!
      1. +1
        3 January 2013 23: 19
        Quote: Skating rink
        I am second in line for you!

        In - in, and borrow on me ...
  9. -1
    2 January 2013 13: 11
    Quote: Egoza

    WHERE TO BUY? Against the Svobodovites it is necessary !!!!!


    Didn't you try to pass without touching the "Svoboda" members?
    1. Kortik
      +18
      2 January 2013 14: 14
      Didn't you try to pass without touching the "svobodovtsy"? [/ Quote]

      They themselves turn up to the Russian speakers and demand that we live only according to their rules. They are an analogue of your North Caucasian tribes in their arrogance and behavior. Therefore, I would like to have a couple of sobering arguments for these walking contraceptives.
      1. 0
        3 January 2013 12: 47
        Svobodovtsy from "STALKER" - they are from 2006, naive and as representatives of the country in the international arena - partly benevolent. :)

        Svobodovtsi 2012 is a political wing. Having passed into parliament, they mutated sharply into bureurs and did not stop until they became full-fledged bloodsuckers.

        And without jokes:
        Nationalism is also an idology, it is better than the lack of a national idea for more than 20 years in a row.

        But Ukrainian nationalism is not an ideology but a Laugh. And this can not be changed.

        If you, Kortik, are bullied by a shallow riffraff of oligarchic dislovers, then the question is either not political or not yours personally. Learn the Ukrainian language and begin to perceive the realities deeper and more distinctly.
        1. 0
          3 January 2013 14: 17
          Nationalism is no longer freedom, so this party is only hiding behind with a big word, which, strangely enough, does not hide its essence.
    2. +1
      3 January 2013 07: 53
      Quote: nokki

      Didn't you try to pass without touching the "Svoboda" members?


      Oh oh! Cons set something! People! Are you crazy, or what? I meant the Svobodovites from the Stalker game! lol
  10. fenix57
    0
    2 January 2013 14: 18
    Oooh you beauty ...
  11. +2
    2 January 2013 14: 29
    This is what our "advisers" are in Syria right now. Cool thing to clean up.
  12. 0
    2 January 2013 14: 38
    Unusual pattern. Interesting.
    But, for sure, the series will not go.
    1. +2
      3 January 2013 14: 19
      I agree, but maybe this is an intermediate sample. Unviable, but giving life to others.
  13. 0
    2 January 2013 14: 48
    Not impressed either externally or partially declared TTX.
    200 meters per second? Many pneumatics "give" more. "Shura, this is not our method!" (from) wink
    1. +2
      2 January 2013 16: 03
      understudy,
      Cartridge 9x39 mm SP-6, Russia

      The beginning bullet speed, 290 - 310 m / s
      Cartridge 7.62x39 mm 57-N-231U (7U1)
      Cartridge with a US bullet, a bimetallic sleeve, red varnish at the junction.

      Cartridge with a US bullet with a steel varnished sleeve.

      Muzzle velocity: 285-300 m / s
    2. +1
      2 January 2013 22: 15
      You do not confuse soft with warm smile Weight is more bullets than pneumatics wink
  14. +20
    2 January 2013 14: 52
    Quote: nokki
    Didn't you try to pass without touching the "Svoboda" members?

    Forgive me the moderators for a slight deviation from the topic.
    About 15 years ago I was leading a group of quite important Americans on a free excursion walk. We stopped at Maidan Nezalezhnosti (independence). There, a small group (100 people) discussed the future development of Ukraine. the Americans were asked to translate what they say, and they themselves asked questions. Well, when the Russian-speaking - I translated it into Russian, when the Ukrainian-speaking - into Ukrainian. I am fluent in several languages. And so, one lady says: “Ukraine is only for Ukrainians” (in Ukrainian), and a guy who speaks Russian with surprise: “Why only for Ukrainians? For all residents of Ukraine”. We talked! Then a lady quietly approaches me from behind: "Well, you and I understand that Ukraine is only for Ukrainians." (Looks like she took it for her). So, with the passage of time and all this Ukrainization, I FIRSTLY do not speak Ukrainian and oppose the galicization of all of Ukraine. And, if, those who are now walking with torchlight processions in KIEV !!! In honor of Bandera's birthday (January 1), they will burst into my house, because I am Russian, .... Guys! Sell ​​"krasotulechku" Well, it is very necessary!
    1. 0
      3 January 2013 12: 55
      Quote: Egoza
      if, those who now go with torchlight processions on KIEV !!! In honor of Bandera’s birthday (January 1), they will burst into my house


      You do not need a Fidget, but a double-barreled shotgun - it protects much better than automatic equipment, and there are fewer questions from the side of the law ... I sat at home, was engaged in room shooting, unidentified persons died on the doorstep when you tried to enter your house unauthorized by you.
      And better - do not bother with politics, it is transitory.
      1. avt
        +1
        3 January 2013 13: 51
        Astrey ___ You will not "stuff your head with politics", at best you will stuff the horn of a Kalash.
        1. 0
          4 January 2013 20: 29
          this is yes: it is NECESSARY to be aware of what is changing and in which direction.
  15. AlexMH
    +3
    2 January 2013 15: 09
    A four-row magazine is heavy and uncomfortable to wear, and the likelihood of failure is higher with such a rearrangement of cartridges. The weapons for the submachine gun are too bulky, a bunch of protruding parts will cling to everything. The need for a grenade launcher for a weapon that shouldn’t be supposed to kill anyone is not obvious at all, and it weighs a lot. As for the 45-caliber cartridges, their only advantage is the stopping action, according to other criteria (piercing action, ammunition weight, firing range) they are worse than 9 mm, and in the West most PPs are made for 9 mm cartridges precisely for these reasons. And this gun reminds of something of Thompson PP :)
    1. +1
      3 January 2013 10: 01
      the article does not say which grenade will be used, after all, it is possible not of a lethal effect, such as with a rubber bullet or for carrying out a door. bullet speed of 200m / s - firing range of 40 meters, approximately, further a heavy bullet will begin to fall. at the same 45АКП the speed of the bullet is about 280-300 m / s. so still there will be a question - for whom? if they can find the answer - the weapon will be used; if not, then no
  16. +2
    2 January 2013 15: 28
    An interesting article and the trunk is funny .... Although it looks too painful for the characteristics that it is endowed with on the network ...
    So in many preliminary reviews they say that the speed of the bullet was reduced to 200 meters per second, increasing the weight of the bullet.

    Here I agree with the author, this is unlikely, even rather completely unlikely. 200m / s is the minimum speed at which the shot is considered lethal, I think that for a bullet it will be the same. The following characteristics flash on the network:
    The following is known: OTs-69 provides the use of 30 mm silent grenade launcher shots at a distance of more than 500 meters. The range of a single or automatic rifle shooting mode with a standard cartridge of 11,43 mm caliber is 150 meters, and supersonic - 200 meters.

    And now this seems more plausible .... So let's wait for more specific information ...
  17. DRY
    DRY
    0
    2 January 2013 16: 02
    such uncles like this in the photo can’t even be allowed to get close to the weapon, a gross violation of safety precautions when handling weapons (a finger on the trigger), but this is probably some kind of authoritative expert.
  18. sergskak
    0
    2 January 2013 16: 47
    the designers developed a weapon under the .45ASP cartridge, and even endowed it with a 30 mm grenade launcher
    Well, if I see this in an action movie whatever it may be, there are no questions. Confuses the choice of 45.ASR. Maybe they just lay around in warehouses after the Civil and Great Patriotic War? Doubtful cartridge for the present (just do not need la la stopping action, it’s certainly so, but in for the sake of other equally important characteristics). Yes, it probably weighs like two Kalash. And in other things I FOR any (new). And probably in ammunition still from Smith-Wesson cartridges were littered, even English and Japanese of which Fedorov sculpted his masterpieces. We will wait for new samples!
    1. sergskak
      +8
      2 January 2013 17: 17
      Nothing too ... The cartridge is the same, the store can also be loaded with 100 rounds of ammunition. Why is it not special forces weapons? A grenade launcher, a collimator and a javelin, no question. Ps Excuse me for humor, probably the New Year is not letting go.
  19. georg737577
    +2
    2 January 2013 18: 57
    In my opinion - a freak, zero ergonomics, a grenade launcher on it - like a saddle on a pig ... It will not work reliably with a four-row magazine. In any case, I don't want to fight such a "miracle", despite the 45 ASP. And the lack of separate control of firing from a grenade launcher poses a real danger to the user - especially when cleaning indoors ...
  20. +3
    2 January 2013 18: 59
    Another freak, they don’t think about design at all, maybe they shoot well, but they won’t buy it, and as for Korobov’s assault rifles, it’s generally something, a case made of carbolite, like an inkwell of the 50s.
    1. +3
      2 January 2013 19: 20
      design has nothing to do with it, the main thing is functionality ...
      Personally, I like the classic layout rather than bullpup, although on the other hand:
      OTs-14 "Thunderstorm"

      IED (Shortened sniper rifle, OTs-03

      Automatic A-91 caliber 7.62 mm

      ADF for firing on land 5,45-mm automatic cartridges

      Well, etc.
      1. 0
        2 January 2013 22: 26
        Gentlemen, that it’s necessary to break the spears, the infa on this machine is still zero, the use of 45 gauges seems to me justified in some cases, since small calibers, well, to put it mildly, did not quite justify themselves. It is no accident that often our border guards tried to use light machine guns instead of the AK 74, well, the 5,45 bullet doesn’t want to go where it should through the reeds ... Purely on the laid out photo: the barrel is at least 400 mm long, which is hardly justified with pistol ammunition. and indeed the barrel gives the impression of a solid assault rifle, the size of the magazine, by no means a pistol cartridge, visually of course ... Take a closer look at the photo and compare the handle with the magazine .... That is, I think that this device is far from a pistol cartridge , well, and if so, then all conclusions about 150 meters are scattered in the dust .... Let's wait ....
      2. 0
        3 January 2013 09: 45
        Well, and what of all this adopted? Allegedly, an IED sniper rifle, and even then it was withdrawn from service for obvious shortcomings.
  21. 0
    2 January 2013 19: 47
    Very angular construction. From personal practice, I remember that even the AK47 always clung to something and to someone when landing in the car body.
    Again, in the field, in the trench or on the belly, the entire device will be in such rubbish that God forbid!
    1. 0
      3 January 2013 10: 05
      PP in the field? Well, now we do not have 2MV, in the field it is better to have an automatic machine for intermediate cartridges
  22. +3
    2 January 2013 20: 05
    A good weapon for gangsters .... hang out, slam a grenade on the car ... class ...
    1. sergskak
      0
      2 January 2013 20: 15
      decanter, Greetings to my colleague, here I have the same first impression.
  23. AlexMH
    +1
    2 January 2013 20: 46
    Somewhere in the memoirs of the war veterans I read that they tested Thompson’s PP on themselves - they became a man 100..150 meters from the shooter, wore 3 quilted jackets (well, Russian people), and 45-caliber bullets DIDN’T PUNCH these quilted jackets, because the initial speed small, but the bullet slows down quickly :)


    I found a quote :) To the question about .45ACP cartridges

    http://iremember.ru/tankisti/loza-dmitriy-fedorovich/stranitsa-2.html

    - Dmitri, every Sherman, come in the Soviet Union was a personal weapon crew: Thompson machine. I have read that these weapons plundered the rear part and almost came to tankers. What kind of weapon did you have: the American or Soviet?
    - Each Sherman delivered two automatic Thompson. Caliber 11,43 mm - healthy such chuck! But the machine was worthless. We have had several cases. Guys, on the dispute, is worn on a pair of padded jacket departed, they were shot. And this bullet stuck quilted jackets! That was such a shitty machine. Here German submachine gun with folding stock (meaning the MP-40 submachine gun company Erma - V_P) we loved for compactness. A Thompson healthy - with him in the tank is not razverneshsya.
    1. 0
      2 January 2013 21: 56
      Well, let's say, they didn't like him not only with us. The US Defense Department refused to use the Tommy Gun at all.
      1. avt
        0
        3 January 2013 14: 11
        crambol ___ It's not about love, to "Tommy", this is a peacetime weapon, in the sense of production, a lot of machining in the manufacture of parts, and milling, amers made an "oiler" for this cartridge, and it is stamped like a PPS, cheap and cheerful. So staff in their army, he simply came to naught due to natural attrition bully
    2. +1
      3 January 2013 10: 07
      I don't know about Thomson's assault rifles in the Shermans, I haven't seen it anywhere in the literature, but that a genuine leather coat for each crew member was known for certain, as well as very comfortable conditions for the crew, soft, leather, again, seats , although the tank itself was "shitty", ours even abandoned the petrol version of it, flashed literally from a simple rifle bullet, and therefore deserved the name "lighter" (the moderator removed the word). The Americans went to the meeting, began to supply a version with a diesel engine, and on the other hand, for some reason not to go, the supplies were paid for in gold and precious stones. I apologize for speaking off topic.
    3. avt
      +3
      3 January 2013 14: 02
      At the expense of quilted jackets and 45th caliber at 100 ---- 150 meters, it is strongly pushed laughing , it’s a pistol cartridge, you can also wash your cabbage soup, if not hot, wassat laughing but it’s weak even in three quilted jackets and at 20 ---- 25 meters and at least 11,43? laughing
  24. 0
    3 January 2013 20: 25
    Some kind of it, this weapon is too big for the PP. See him in action.
    Here the Americans have created an interesting machine. It is not only more compact, but also has a mechanism that reduces returns.
    True, as you can see at the end, his price bites smile

    1. Tjumenec72
      0
      3 January 2013 22: 25
      This is an automatic pistol ...
  25. zs23wesdgggg
    0
    4 January 2013 02: 45
    It just can't be !!! The FSB has created this http://2qu.ru/poisksng database about any resident of Russia, Ukraine and other CIS countries. Really was really scared
    there are a lot of interesting things about me (addresses, phone numbers, even my photos of a different nature) - I wonder where they dug up this. In general, there are good sides - this
    Information can be deleted from the site.
    I advise you to hurry, you never know how to fumble there ...

    It just can't be !!! The FSB has created this http://2qu.ru/poisksng database about any resident of Russia, Ukraine and other CIS countries. Really was really scared
    there are a lot of interesting things about me (addresses, phone numbers, even my photos of a different nature) - I wonder where they dug up this. In general, there are good sides - this
    Information can be deleted from the site.
    I advise you to hurry, you never know how to fumble there ...
  26. +1
    4 January 2013 21: 47
    Compared to assault rifles, this machine gun should not only be safer when firing in a city with a civilian population, but also more effective because of the greater stopping ability of the .45ASP cartridge. Although there is another side: for purposes protected by personal high-grade armor, this submachine gun will work with very little efficiency.


    The most real weapon for shooting demonstrations and peaceful "unarmored" citizens.
  27. sad32wqesadf
    0
    5 January 2013 11: 26
    It just can't be !!! The FSB has created this http://zipurl.ws/sngbaza database about any resident of Russia, Ukraine and other CIS countries. Really was really scared
    there are a lot of interesting things about me (addresses, phone numbers, even my photos of a different nature) - I wonder where they dug up this. In general, there are good sides - this
    Information can be deleted from the site.
    I advise you to hurry, you never know how to fumble there ...
  28. astra30va
    0
    7 January 2013 22: 31
    WHAT are we discussing?
    In the publication, the author writes in Russian - "caliber .45АСР" ...
    Or someone seriously believes that the Armed Forces and the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation are planning adopt American "antediluvian" (1905) cartridge of 11.43x25 mm, removed from the Pentagon's arsenal in the last century ?!

    Here is the reference:
    "... .45АСР cartridges were in service with the US Armed Forces until 1985, and are still used by the special operations forces. In addition to the USA, .45 caliber ammunition and weapons were widely used in Latin America, as well as in several European countries. mainly those that received military assistance from the US. The main advantage of .45АСР cartridges is the high stopping effect of large-caliber bullets. The disadvantage is the rather large dimensions and weight of cartridges .... "

    - From this reference it follows that the OTs-69 was created for the arms market in Latin America (where the .45ASP cartridge has not yet been removed from service), and for the arms market in the United States, where there are traditionally many large-caliber amateurs, and the .45ASP cartridges themselves are widespread among the population.

    Purely COMMERCIAL development aimed at expanding the sales market of products of the Tula KBP. On some government orders - not to survive ...
  29. 0
    13 January 2013 22: 16
    Why so big? For beauty?
    "Chestnut" is just a baby compared to him.
  30. 0
    26 May 2014 16: 08
    davolno not a bad unit