Development of the destroyer theme for the Russian Navy

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Development of the destroyer theme for the Russian Navy

And hello again, not even a year has passed since the beloved author of the nuclear-powered armored destroyer ABM/PLO is ready to share new creative ideas for the development of the project, and Zamvolt was launched ten years ago.

Chassis


The main dimensions, length, width, displacement remained the same, because we are building a series of destroyers, but the proposed development is aimed at adapting the project to operating conditions in the north and east of our country. The region of our country from Murmansk to Vladivostok, even along the coast of two oceans, even along a straight line on the map, joined the Russian civilization conditionally no more than three centuries ago. And this very civilization, and the so-called progress, was carried here by the fleet, first on sailing ships, then on steamships.

And in our time the fleet it is necessary to protect and defend this difficult region. Just as the differences between cruise ships for travel in the tropics and tours to the Arctic and Antarctic are little noticeable, the differences between a simple destroyer and a sistership for the northeast and the Arctic will also be little visible.



The armoring scheme of the ship with a continuous armored deck and an armored citadel located below the waterline was unanimously criticized.

Two historical example.

In 1941, the German battleship Bismarck, in a battle with an English battleship and a battle cruiser, was forced to interrupt a joint raid with a heavy cruiser and return to the nearest German-controlled harbor at the shortest possible speed due to damage to the bow fuel tanks (a trim on the bow and loss of fuel). The diving shell damaged the unarmored compartments of the hull.

In 1982, the British destroyer Sheffield was lost when it hit the freeboard. aviation The Exocet anti-ship missile system, which did not even explode, but caused a fire in the engine room. I have no doubt that the waterproof compartments of the ship were battened down for combat, and only the presence of an armored deck, like our ship, could have prevented the disaster.

Thousands of tons of armor or its complete absence, probably, the truth is somewhere in the middle, in a reasonable compromise of all available means of protecting the ship. Opinions have been expressed about the negative impact of armor protection on the availability and cost of repair and maintenance of internal units and systems, as well as on the deterioration of ship stability.

Let me disagree and challenge.

A horizontal armored deck at the level of the lower waterline in the bow of the ship will serve as a natural platform for placing vertical launch installations for the missile arsenal and will be a guarantee against a repetition of the ridiculous Sheffield tragedy, and will also strengthen the ship’s hull for sailing in icy waters in the most vulnerable place from the effects of ice fields. Its logical and natural continuation to the stern will reliably prevent the nuclear reactor and the ship’s energy from various incidents from the aircraft hangar and take-off pad located on the upper deck.

In addition, the placement of the armored deck below the waterline, and below it the armored citadel of two vertical transverse armored beams and two longitudinal armored bulkheads, which have become the natural boundary of the onboard anti-torpedo protection, will only have a positive effect on the metacentric height and center of mass of the ship. Therefore, the presence of such armor protection will improve the stability of the ship in comparison with non-armored analogues.

As for the accessibility and ease of repair and maintenance of internal compartments, with a competent and careful approach to designing a ship’s hull, the proposed armor will cause no more problems than the necessary division of the hull into compartments (from 14 to 20) with waterproof bulkheads and decks.


So, there are three invisible but fundamental differences between the ship’s hull for the northeast and the previous series: a change in the inclination of all surfaces of the hull and superstructure from 10 degrees to 9 degrees; increasing the boundary line for changing the slope of the sides from external to internal from one and a half meters to 2 meters from the waterline; construction of the ship's hull in accordance with the requirements of the Arc4 standard for shipping in the Arctic.

“Arc4 (LU4) - Independent navigation in rarefied 1-year Arctic ice with a thickness of up to 0,6 m in winter-spring navigation and up to 0,8 m in summer-autumn navigation. Sailing in the channel behind the icebreaker in 1-year Arctic ice up to 0,7 m thick in winter-spring and up to 1,0 m in summer-autumn navigation.”

A long, narrow and tall alternative ship's stem is proposed for two reasons.

Firstly, according to unconfirmed research by European shipbuilders, the reverse tilt of the stem reduces the wave resistance to the movement of the ship, which, together with a large fairing and protection of the bow hydroacoustic complex, should help increase speed and energy efficiency, as well as reduce the ship’s slamming in stormy weather.

Secondly, such a configuration of the bow of the ship should help it perform the functions of an ice cutter, yes, just an ice cutter, and not an icebreaker. An ice field or floe is not pressed through or broken by the icebreaker's hull from top to bottom under the influence of gravity, but is “cut” from under the water by a sharp, narrow stem. The icebreaker, as it were, crushes the broken ice under itself and under the ice field, while the ice cutter with an alternative stem cuts, pushes the fragments to the sides or even onto the surface of the ice field, thereby reducing the risk of damage to the bow propeller, propeller and rudders.

If you look at the drawing, you can understand that the ship’s bow gauge is 6 meters ahead of the waterline, and the steel upper part of the sonar fairing begins at a depth of two meters under water. A sharp, narrow stem immediately begins to form.

Actually, a durable sound-conducting fairing starts from a depth of 3,5 meters. The process of ice breaking itself begins at the point of contact of the stem on the waterline, when the fairing is already under the ice at a safe distance and depth. The thickness of the plating on the stem of modern heavy-class icebreakers reaches 40 millimeters. The ice cutter "Fedor Litke", aka "Earl Grey", aka "Canada", was 31 millimeters.

By the way, the idea of ​​an ice-cutting destroyer arose after becoming familiar with the history of this ship. I recommend reading it. For our new destroyer with the option of an ice cutter for its own needs, the thickness of the plating in the bow and 30 millimeters is sufficient.

Dry calculations show that even if with this method of overcoming the ice field, an ice floe with an area of ​​25 square meters will be lifted from the water on the stem. meter and 0,5 meter thick, which did not break from impact or under its own weight, then for a ship it will be comparable to landing a standard helicopter on the stern. Twice the displacement and length of an ice-class destroyer compared to an ice cutter of the last century, as well as incomparable energy power, are the key to the success of the proposed project.


Thus, like all natural inhabitants of polar latitudes, our ship becomes more dense, stocky and squat (the height of the superstructure is reduced from 41,5 meters to exactly 40). Thanks to the above set of changes, the longitudinal sectional area of ​​the superstructure from the aircraft hangar roof level was reduced by 80 square meters (16% compared to the prototype), but at the same time, unfortunately, the cross-sectional area of ​​the superstructure at the same level increased by 24 square meters meters (by 6% compared to the prototype).

One way or another, all of the above changes will somewhat reduce wind loads on the surface structures of the ship’s hull. According to table number one, a wind with a speed of 25 m/sec will be much stronger in the Arctic than in the subtropics or on the Black Sea. Air density depends on temperature at normal atmospheric pressure.


Radars


One may get the impression that the author, under pressure, is trying to somewhat sacrifice the basic principle inherent in the design of the missile defense/anti-submarine warfare destroyer: priority is given to reconnaissance and control equipment. As we remember from the previous article, five “red” AFARs of the decimeter range of a rectangular shape with sides of 24 and 32 transceiver modules, placed in the maximum possible optimal positions on the top of the ship’s superstructure, actually formed its unique appearance in the form of the maximum permissible high tower for 3D -RLK (three-band radar complex).

In the new configuration of the 3D-radar for the missile defense/anti-aircraft missile destroyer of the northeastern region, we will somewhat shift the emphasis from conducting effective long-range radar reconnaissance in the interests of regional formations of the armed forces towards the reliable provision of intelligence information and covering the actual naval formation of the area it leads or the protected area.

When the ship is in combat service in the NSR areas of the Arctic Ocean or the Chukotka and Kamchatka peninsulas in the northwestern part of the Pacific Ocean, it will still be able to detect ballistic missiles and warheads aimed at strategic targets within the country, but they will be inaccessible to its anti-missile missiles from -for heights and trajectories. And they are hardly applicable to the “bastions” of duty of our SSBNs. But here a mass launch of air- and sea-based strategic cruise missiles with the aim of a pre-emptive disarming strike is possible.

The above-mentioned reduction in the height of the ship’s superstructure and its longitudinal section logically entailed a change in the geometric dimensions of the “red” AFARs and the inclination of the planes of their placement. The decimeter antenna panels were converted from rectangular ones to square ones with a square side of 28 PPM and a geometric size of 10,08 meters. An increase in the number of PPMs in the antenna fabric by 16 units also slightly increased the energy potential of the APAA.

Due to the reduction in the inclination of the surfaces of the ship's superstructure to 9 degrees, the viewing area of ​​the antennas on the side surfaces in the elevation plane was correspondingly reduced to 54 degrees, while the remaining 90 degrees in the azimuthal plane remained the same. Accordingly, the viewing angles of the horizontally located AFAR increased to ±36 degrees in the longitudinal and transverse planes from the normal. Changing the pulse repetition rate for radiation in accordance with the established values ​​of the instrumental range scales of 500, 1 and 000 kilometers will allow for flexible and fruitful reconnaissance depending on the assigned tasks.

The “red” decimeter band 3D-RLK, by analogy with the 5N84A and 55Zh6 meter band RTV VKS radars, should confidently take on the tasks of long-range radar detection in standby mode. The only weakness of this part of the project may be insufficient time between failures (for comparison: for the mentioned radars it is 114 and 250 hours, respectively). The presence of such a radar on board our destroyer turns the American-Japanese missile defense destroyers with Aegis simply into blind-sighted nerds!

Indeed, for all four phased arrays, the height of the electrical center of the antenna is at the level of 35 meters from the surface of the water, this is ten meters higher than the placement of the locators of the S-300 complex on the 40V6M tower and is only slightly inferior to the 40V6MD product (39 meters).

Direct competitors to the sixth-generation American style icon AN/SPQ-6 Aegis will remain “green” radars of the short decimeter range (λ=14 cm). American aircraft carriers have not come close to the red line of the Arctic Circle or the 67th parallel for thirty years. Therefore, an air strike by carrier-based aircraft as part of an air wing entering from the Barents Sea at the bases of the Kola Peninsula is hardly possible. And the breakthrough of an aircraft carrier through the Bering Strait into the Chukchi Sea is absolutely incredible. In the event of a global conflict, one should not expect a significant concentration of strike aircraft at the northern airfields of Norway and Finland, as well as at the bases of Alaska and northern Canada.

Taking into account economic feasibility and the principle of reasonable sufficiency, the number of “green” range AFARs on the destroyer version for the northeast has been reduced from 16 to 12, which will allow the ship to fire all-round at up to 48 air targets at long range. If this fact is interpreted as a slight reduction in the ship’s combat capabilities, then we should also consider some newfound advantages.

Thus, 12 “green” radars have increased the energy potential of radiation due to an increase in the number of PPMs in the AFAR, there are now 60 of them in each vertical and horizontal row (in the previous version 58 × 58), which also entailed some slight narrowing of the radiation pattern antennas In the new version, the antennas are placed more rationally, from eight directions instead of four on the previous version.

Prerequisites for construction


The cost of building the nuclear icebreaker "Arktika" pr. 22220 is widely known, amounting to 37 billion rubles ($625 million). The prices for the three production ships of this project are already known; they are steadily increasing from 42 billion rubles ($709 million) for the second, 44 billion ($743 million) for the third and up to 51,8 billion rubles for the fourth. Although, according to the laws of economics, the prices of serial ships should decrease, so there is no point in arguing and breaking spears about the monetary equivalent of building the proposed destroyers.

Let's try to justify the possibility of their construction through comparisons and analogies.

So, the price of the third icebreaker, project 22220 Ural, according to various sources, is in the range of 44–48 billion rubles. The price for the Borei class strategic submarine missile carrier is also publicly available - 23,2 billion rubles. Both types of ships are currently being built in relatively large series, which means the construction technologies have been proven and are available under Western sanctions. Until 2028, the Baltic Shipyard shipbuilding enterprise will be busy building icebreakers. So what is next?

And then, in a dock measuring 350x36 meters, two hulls of nuclear-powered armored missile defense/anti-aircraft destroyers are laid down at once, to choose from two proposed options. The icebreaker weighs 26 tons; this amount of material is enough for two destroyer hulls with a displacement of 800 tons. If for an icebreaker it is necessary to produce three propellers with a diameter of 10 meters, then it will not be a problem to produce two propellers with a diameter of 000 meters for destroyers. The icebreaker has two reactors that convert the energy of nuclear fuel into steam energy, and then turbogenerators convert it into electricity, which in turn drives the propellers through electric motors.

By using a serial and reliable main power plant from the latest generation of SSBNs on the latest destroyers, we are practically guaranteed from suffering with gearboxes, gas turbine and diesel engines, we leave childhood illnesses behind and fundamentally solve the issue of ship autonomy when sailing in high latitudes.

Additional bonuses from such a solution will be the higher efficiency of the power plant of destroyers compared to the icebreaker version due to the smaller number of fuel energy conversions and the initially designed lower noise level of the power plant for the Borey and Yasen submarines, transferred to the surface ship.

In the future, the industry will fulfill orders both for the construction of submarine missile carriers and for the construction of nuclear icebreakers. Their renewal will be required no earlier than in 15–20 years, until new projects appear and the service life of existing samples is exhausted. It is logical to use the predictable pause to build equally necessary equipment of a different class using mass-produced units.

Thus, we have for destroyers a reliable nuclear power plant that has been mastered in production, a hydroacoustic complex that needs only minor adaptation for operation on a surface ship, and a full arsenal of mass-produced modern missile weapons; a non-critical percentage of novelty for a new product will only be presented the above-described three-band radar system and a completely new aviation armament component consisting of new generation anti-submarine helicopters, AWACS tiltrotors and airborne drones.


Many readers are not against the construction of universal destroyers for the Russian Navy, but at the subconscious level they object to nuclear energy for them. But there is no alternative for it, and even development is not expected. The recently existing model range of marine gas turbine engines from M75RU (7 hp), M000FRU (70 hp) and M14FR (000 hp) and the level of development of mechanical engineering in our country do not allow the creation of a power plant for a destroyer with a displacement of 90 tons.

The pinnacle of achievement so far is the power plant for frigates Project 22350, each of the two shafts of which is powered by a pair of a sustainer diesel engine (5 hp) and an M200FR afterburner turbine through a gearbox that is not capable of summing up their power (i.e., rows one of units). On the next series of frigates, Project 90, with increased UKSK ammunition and, as a consequence, increased displacement and length, it is planned to leave the power plant unchanged.

This means that the economic speed will become even lower than that of the frigates of the first series, and the newest ships of the first rank are doomed in advance to be outsiders among their foreign classmates in this parameter. The use of a more powerful diesel engine (6 hp) with the same gearbox and turbine in the second series could somewhat smooth out the lag, but not overcome it. The forecast for the power plant for the enlarged project 000M is more optimistic: it is planned to install a pair of M22350FRU and M70FR turbines on one unit.

The only question is whether it will be possible to create a gearbox for them that sums the power of both turbines. Otherwise, with an increase in economic speed, we will lose the maximum value of full speed in comparison with frigates of the first series, for which it is not outstanding anyway. Note that the displacement of ships of Project 22350M is planned to be up to 8 tons. This means that for a destroyer with a displacement of 500 tons, such a power plant, even in its best version with summing gearboxes, will be rather weak.

And even the creation of a unit with two M90FR turbines and a gearbox with a capacity of 55 hp that sums their power on one shaft. With. does not seem to be a prerequisite for national pride.

Thus, at the moment, there are not even clearly stated plans to create a power plant based on internal combustion engines for a ship with a displacement of 10 tons. On the other hand, submarines of the Yasen type (full capacity 000 tons) and Borey (full capacity 13 tons) with full speeds of 800 and 24 knots, respectively, are being built in series.

Maintenance and operation of nuclear power plants on surface ships will not be more expensive than similar activities for submarines. And if the leadership of the fleet and the country now makes, of course, a bold decision to build nuclear destroyers, then in the first half of the 30s we will be able to have in one of the fleets a full-fledged division of six ships for the price of a division of missile submarines.

Convertiplane AWACS


No matter how good the tri-band radar system located on the destroyer is for reconnaissance, issuing target designation and controlling the ship’s weapons, this excellent system also has drawbacks that limit the possibilities of using the carried weapons and can be used by the enemy for unexpected defeat.

First of all, these are the limitations imposed by the radio horizon both on the detection of dangerous targets at extremely low altitudes, and the limitations of confident, accurate target designation in real time for the ship's long-range missile weapons.

Quite paradoxically, even for a well-armed modern ship, the main threat comes from the surrounding airspace, but carriers can be not only flying objects, but also submarines and surface ships. Therefore, long-range radar detection, both for an individual ship and for a ship warrant, has long been the cornerstone of combat sustainability. Our powerful, beautiful and expensive destroyers are designed to be provided with this very AWACS by tiltrotors based on them.


First, we need to dwell on the conceptual issues of the possibility of creating an unmanned (unmanned) tiltrotor AWACS. The Hawkeye AWACS has a crew of five people; the Osprey transport and landing tiltrotor has a crew of three to four people.

By creating an unmanned tiltrotor AWACS, we immediately eliminate the risk to the lives of three to five highly qualified specialists in a narrow field, save on living space for them inside the device and life support and rescue systems, eliminate the human factor in the reliability of control of the entire complex.

Skeptics can be reminded of the recent tests of an unmanned truck and the successes in testing the heavy Okhotnik drone, as well as the difficulties in mastering manned vertical take-off and landing aircraft.


Let's look at the elements of flight individually.

The takeoff and landing of such a complex apparatus as a tiltrotor from the deck of a destroyer at sea will be performed better by automation with elements of artificial intelligence than by a person relying on his experience, perception of reality and reaction.

The same applies to the transition from vertical takeoff to horizontal flight and back. There is also no doubt about the ability of the autopilot to carry out a flight mission along the intended route with careful adherence to speed, altitude and working out the necessary adjustments made during flight control from the ship, depending on the situation.

All this is performed by the American MQ-25 refueling drone, while also refueling another aircraft. The horizontal flight of a tiltrotor to perform AWACS missions does not involve sudden maneuvers or performing aerobatic maneuvers; on the contrary, it must be distinguished by the stability and accuracy of the specified parameters, which is best accomplished by automation. The Osprey has a service ceiling of 7 meters and a cruising speed of 620 km/h.

Let’s assume that our AWACS tiltrotor performs a combat mission at an altitude of 5–7 thousand meters at a speed of 500 km/h, which means that it will be in the visibility zones of onboard 3D-RLK locators at least 300 kilometers from the ship, providing direct communication lines like control of the UAV itself, as well as data transmission lines for intelligence information from on-board locators.

By adding to the estimated tiltrotor flight radius of 300 km around the ship's location another 400 km of the detection range of onboard locators in a side view, we get a decent increase in the radar reconnaissance zone, comparable to the capabilities of the carrier-based Hawkeye AWACS aircraft, and certainly exceeding similar parameters in hypothetical use helicopter AWACS Ka-31.


If you create an unmanned tiltrotor AWACS, following the path of least resistance, then it is logical to borrow for it, without changes, ready-made serial airborne radars with AFAR NO36 “Belka” from the Su-57 fighter. But the optimal product for a fighter does not fully meet the requirements of AWACS. Based on publicly available information about the fighter's radar, it has a needle-shaped radiation pattern with a width of 2,3 by 1,8 degrees in perpendicular planes with geometric dimensions of the AFAR of 0,7 by 0,9 meters.

For an AWACS tiltrotor with the same element base and range, a product that is 20 percent more powerful with a symmetrical diagram in both planes of 2 degrees and geometric dimensions of 0,8 by 0,8 meters is preferable. True, this will require an increase in the transmitting and receiving elements in the AFAR from 1 to 526 units. The previous sample of the NO1 Irbis radar stated viewing angles in azimuth and elevation of ±898 degrees (electronic) and ±35 degrees (hydraulic).

It should be noted that when the beam is electronically deflected in one of the planes by 60 degrees, its directional pattern width doubles. Therefore, in order to maintain acceptable accuracy characteristics on our radars, we will keep the electronic scanning of the beam within the generally accepted limits of ±45 degrees with the addition of scanning the AFAR body in the horizontal plane to the same ±45 degrees using a hydraulic drive.

Features of the tiltrotor project include the desirable use of engines with controlled thrust vectoring, which will ensure greater stability of the device when performing takeoff and landing operations on a ship, and the installation of simple skids instead of retractable wheeled landing gear, which will create minimal resistance in flight and are much lighter and more reliable will fix the aircraft on the rocking deck of the ship.

Combat use options


The ship provides air defense/missile defense/anti-aircraft defense from a threatening direction on the approach to the naval base of the fleet or patrolling the “bastion” of SSBN duty. A single destroyer is capable of creating a closed access zone for enemy aircraft, both attack and patrol types, while simultaneously monitoring the underwater situation using one or two gas launchers, spaced by diving depth and ranges, and the bow sonar in passive mode.

If there is a need to expand control zones, both in the air and under water, or to increase efforts in a certain direction, on-board AWACS tiltrotors and ASW helicopters are connected. At the same time, control of near-Earth space is being carried out in order to prevent the enemy from conducting space reconnaissance during a threatened period, from active jamming to the physical destruction of enemy satellites in low areas of circumpolar orbits.

The ship is deployed in a given area as a missile arsenal for the CRBD. Moreover, depending on the season and ice conditions in the area, this may be a joint voyage with one of the icebreakers of our fleet. And then it is quite possible to create a threat to NATO Scandinavians from beyond the 75th parallel in the northern regions of the Greenland and Barents seas, and to American-Canadian officials and generals of the North American NORAD from the Baffin, Beaufort and Chukchi seas. Using the unlimited autonomy of a nuclear destroyer, it is possible to plan trips and small submarines under its cover to both coasts of North America, and even more so to the shores of Foggy Albion and the Land of the Rising Sun.

The ship becomes the basis of zonal air defense of any order of ships of our fleet in conducting strike, anti-submarine, and landing operations.

The ship is the calling card of Russia and displays our flag in any area of ​​the World Ocean, both to provide support to friendly countries and to put pressure on the enemy.


Freshness of caronimica


Be that as it may (in the sense of whether destroyers will be built in Russia or not, whether they will be nuclear or smoke the sky, whether they will be made of foil or with an armored deck), the time has come to bring a fresh spirit to the names of ships. For the northeast, I propose a series of ship names that emphasize the inviolability of Russian sovereignty over the islands of the Pacific Ocean and at the same time are a natural irritant for potential adversaries.

The symbolism of the name of the nuclear-powered armored destroyer can be justified by the following fact: on each of the islands there is an active volcano that erupted after 1945. A volcanic eruption is comparable to a ship's missile salvo.

Volcano Islands:

O. Matua (Sarychev Volcano - 2009);
O. Onekotan (Krenitsyn Volcano - 1952);
O. Kunashir (Tyatya volcano - 1981);
O. Iturup (Kudryavy volcano – 1999);
O. Simushir (Zavaritsky volcano - 1957);
O. Paramushir (Ebeko volcano – 2022).


The author does not object to traditions. What’s wrong with a series of five-letter names “small peoples of Russia” in the spirit of the well-known gunboat “Koreets”: “Abkhaz”, “Ingush”, “Buryat”, “Karel”, “Chechen”, “Chuvash”, “Evenk”, “ Nenets", "Koryak". Or the “historical series”: “Bolshevik”, “Chekist”, “Volunteer”, “Oprichnik”, “Robber”, “Boyarin”.

But first we need to lay down the ships!

Articles from this series:
Nuclear-powered armored destroyer PRO/PLO
53 comments
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  1. +4
    27 September 2023 04: 40
    It looks a lot like a long-suffering American project; it seems that if we ever take on something similar, the fate will be similar - utopianly unpromising, because it is very expensive and there are a large number of innovations, which means huge development times and very low serial production. And I can’t believe that it’s 10 kt. It will be out probably closer to 14-15...
    1. +3
      27 September 2023 07: 42
      “It was smooth on paper, but they forgot about the ravines...”

      For some reason, the design and development of aircraft/ships/submarines/tanks, etc., etc. are carried out by highly specialized institutes, etc. establishments...
      Yes, at the dawn of technological progress there were both the Wright brothers and Sikorsky...
      But I haven’t heard that a nuclear missile carrier or fighter-bomber wearing one helmet was designed by Comrade. Ivanov or Mr. Smith...
      1. 0
        11 October 2023 21: 49
        I haven’t heard of specialized design bureaus giving birth to anything faster than in 10 years. because the load is a burden, secrets and eggheads.
        give this guy money, he’ll give birth - good, if he doesn’t give birth - pfft, so how many unborn projects does KB have?
    2. -2
      27 September 2023 08: 02
      Quote: Doccor18
      It looks a lot like a long-suffering American project; it seems that if we ever take on something similar, the fate will be similar - utopianly unpromising, because it is very expensive and there are a large number of innovations, which means huge development times and very low serial production. And I can’t believe that it’s 10 kt. It will be out probably closer to 14-15...

      Good morning!
      To be honest, I bought the picture of the battleship, for some reason I was expecting the vicissitudes of the birth of the destroyers of the Imperial Russian Navy, but that was not the case.
      I will write only one thought - the development of the fleet entails the development of the industrial base and design ideas. It is impossible to maintain competencies without building real ships!!!
      Therefore, I agree with the author - the main thing is to get involved in battle.
      1. +2
        27 September 2023 09: 04
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        The development of the fleet entails the development of the industrial base and design ideas. It is impossible to maintain competencies without building real ships!!!

        Of course, but
        Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
        the main thing is to get involved in the fight.

        I don't agree with this. Enough of “projects large and small”; the Fleet must be built with a realistic approach to business. And a phantasmagoria (a nuclear destroyer-icebreaker) will only divert a lot of resources and time. It was the Democrats who could afford to “dance with Zumwalt,” “having dozens of Burkes and Ticonderogas on the siding.” What do we have today? I don’t see dozens of domestic frigates at the quay walls... Fantasies are good, but about three dozen inexpensive and reliable PLO corvettes and the same number of MAPLs are much better... Yes
  2. -1
    27 September 2023 07: 38
    if it happened that Russian surface ships would have to fight in the vast majority of cases in clear water, and certainly not in ice
    1. -3
      27 September 2023 09: 04
      Destroyers are the past. The future lies in multifunctional combat platforms and floating arsenals. The Koreans are building something similar now.
      1. 0
        27 September 2023 13: 24
        You are wrong. Cruisers are a thing of the past.
        1. 0
          27 September 2023 13: 37
          We're not talking about cruisers. We are talking about “multifunctional combat platforms.” That is, about floating platforms, in principle, with unlimited displacement. Which will be integrated with floating arsenals. At the moment, the first place comes to the detection and destruction of massive swarms of underwater, surface and aerospace drones, as well as the fight against mine danger. A multifunctional platform can carry various detection and control means and control floating arsenals with different types of weapons, in real time and exchanging with the same platforms to increase combat stability - ammunition is now very important, since there is a massive use of various weapons of destruction of the enemy attackers from different environments. .
  3. +3
    27 September 2023 07: 54
    In this case, only a lobotomy will help.
    1. Following the stupid Western fashion with a ram stem is stupidity and slavish apeism.
    2. A tiltrotor is stupidity squared.
    3. An AU with barrel fairings is stupid in a cube, since the projection area of ​​the barrels is negligible compared to the superstructure.
    4. Well, the fairing of the sonar will quickly be destroyed when sailing in ice.
  4. +5
    27 September 2023 09: 06
    Bismarck's interruption of the voyage is primarily due to the fact that it is the fuel factor that is of paramount importance in such operations, and the ship was losing it. In the short term, in the form of a targeted battle with enemy ships to destroy them, this damage is not critical at all, but the loss of fuel...
    And secondly, the differentiated German reservation scheme is more preferable than the American citadel. Even the thin armor of the tips protects against close-in explosions of large shells and from small hits from cruisers and destroyers, and this is a big plus in ensuring buoyancy. "Bismarck" was essentially destroyed by a successful hit
    A 356-mm shell hit the 60-mm anti-fragmentation belt in the nose in compartment XXI (two compartments ahead of the bow armored beam). The shell did not explode, but went through and formed two holes with a diameter of 60 mm in the 850-mm belt, slightly above the waterline, but below the level of the bow breaker. Along the way, the projectile pierced the transverse bulkhead between compartments XXI and XX, which began to fill with water (in the end it was accepted from 1000 to 2000 tons). At first, the flow of water was small and the emergency party suggested reducing the speed and flooding the tanks to increase the trim aft. These measures were supposed to raise the hole above the bow wave, which would make it possible to repair it. However, tactical considerations did not allow Admiral Lutyens to reduce speed below 28 knots, as a result of which the water pressure began to increase damage. Another unpleasant consequence of the hit was the break of the pipeline leading to the bow fuel tanks. The front sump pump and oil pump were under water. About 1000 tons of oil in the bow compartments were cut off from the ship's fuel system, this oil began to leak overboard through a broken pipeline, and the tanks were partially filled with water

    The hits to the bow and compartment XIV resulted in significant fuel loss. In the worst case, the cruising range could drop to 1100 miles. Moreover, the damage received could not even be temporarily corrected at sea.

    Just a lucky hit from a large-caliber projectile that damaged key fuel equipment. In this case, it does not matter whether the ends are armored or not. But this does not at all negate the advantages of a differentiated scheme from “all or nothing”. Because in a raid, even hits from a destroyer can be critical for buoyancy and seaworthiness.
    What matters is the angle at which the problem is presented. But that's just my opinion hi
    1. +1
      27 September 2023 17: 00
      Quote: Rurikovich
      But this does not at all negate the advantages of a differentiated scheme from “all or nothing”. Because in a raid, even hits from a destroyer can be critical for buoyancy and seaworthiness.
      What matters is the angle at which the problem is presented. But that's just my opinion

      Dear Andrey, you are right, but in relation to past times. Artillery combat between ships in modern realities is more an exception to the rule than the truth. The Americans, if I’m not mistaken in the date, in 2002-2003 came to the conclusion that it was completely impossible to protect the ship from an anti-ship missile attack, so it was necessary to apply constructive solutions to minimize the damage from an anti-ship missile hit. The presence of armor on ships partially solves this problem, but the placement of modern weapons systems, combined with autonomy and cruising range, will lead to a return to ships with a displacement of 20 thousand tons or more; not every economy can withstand such a load.
  5. 0
    27 September 2023 09: 27
    Meanwhile, to protect against Onyx with an armor-piercing warhead, you will need at least 700 mm of steel. And yes, anti-ship missiles can make a slide and hit the deck.
    I’ll keep silent about the fact that even the X-35 will sweep away the entire antenna system after it hits.
  6. +3
    27 September 2023 10: 21
    Considering the DESTROYER project assuming the use of a NUCLEAR power plant is pure fantasy, divorced from reality. Reactors are expensive and difficult to build and maintain. Their installation is a separate complex process of regulation and approval. Since any nuclear reactor, which is logical, is a source of ionizing radiation. The standards for it are a carriage and a small cart. That’s why reactors are installed only on very large ships and only where, by definition, a lot of energy is required. This is how it turned out that reactors are installed mainly only on large-displacement military vessels (aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines and large cruisers), while in civilian life they are installed on icebreakers. That's all - for everything else, reactors are EXCESSIVE!
    And during installation they will bring more problems than benefits.
    Destroyers are still universal vessels (approximately like corvettes), and therefore in the event of a more or less serious conflict, they will begin to participate in hostilities first (cruisers, for example, should not be allowed straight into battle, especially without escort). This means they also have a high risk of getting hit by a missile. And many people don’t really want to lose a ship with a valuable power plant with consequences in the form of potential contamination of the area where hostilities are taking place.

    This is the problem of our fleet, that in the minds of some representatives of the Navy, the ideas about nuclear destroyers for some reason seem rational, but the ideas of creating a series of slightly simpler and cheaper diesel-powered ships do not seem rational.

    Wars are won not by prodigies, but by structured aircraft capable of performing a wide range of tasks. A nuclear-powered destroyer is a wunderwaffle! Large, powerful and so difficult to build and operate that they will build it in quantities of 1-2 pieces and because of this they will be afraid to use it.
    1. +2
      27 September 2023 12: 29
      Quote: Mustachioed Kok
      This is how it turned out that reactors are installed mainly only on large-displacement military vessels (aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines and large cruisers), while in civilian life they are installed on icebreakers.

      Hmm... since when did nuclear submarines become ships of large displacement? wink
      The famous "Lyre": surface displacement - 2300 tons, underwater - 3600 tons.
      Well, okay, "Lyra" is a nuclear submarine with maximum parameters, and even with a liquid metal reactor reactor. Let's take a regular SSGN - Project 670. Surface - 3600 tons, underwater - 5000 tons. By the standards of surface ships - a frigate.

      But in civilian life, the reluctance to equip ships with nuclear power plants is due to the enormous number of approvals that are required for such a vessel to enter any port, and the complete lack of infrastructure for basing them outside their home ports. They are like a ship with oil boilers in 1880 - convenient, economical, no need for a large crew... but what should it do in the world of coal stations? smile
      So the “nuclear ships” remained isolated projects.
      Quote: Mustachioed Kok
      And many people don’t really want to lose a ship with a valuable power plant with consequences in the form of potential contamination of the area where hostilities are taking place.

      But at the same time, submarines with nuclear power plants regularly operate in the same areas. smile
      Quote: Mustachioed Kok
      This is the problem of our fleet, that in the minds of some representatives of the Navy, the ideas about nuclear destroyers for some reason seem rational, but the ideas of creating a series of slightly simpler and cheaper diesel-powered ships do not seem rational.

      Probably because these some representatives have an idea of ​​the real state of affairs with ship diesel engines. And it is that a nuclear power plant is more realistic for us than a diesel one.
      What is one “Star” worth... how many ships are there frozen at the outfitting walls because there are no “stars” for them? And not some ultra-supernovas with Western filling, but ordinary old 112-pot blockheads from the era of dear Leonid Ilyich.
      There are only three enterprises in Russia that are engaged in the production of marine power plants: “Kolomensky Diesel”, “Ural Diesel”, which makes it so that after two months the covers on these installations are completely corroded by sea water”, and another plant – “Zvezda”, presented its engine at the salon, which was actually manufactured in Austria
      © ever-memorable Commander-in-Chief Chirkov
      The situation was so serious that UDMZ even fully acknowledged the criticism, although usually the industry rejects everything, shifting its sins onto the crookedness of the warhead-5.
      Naturally, the quality is lame in all diesel engines. The Commander-in-Chief is right, no one can deny that quality must be raised
    2. +1
      27 September 2023 15: 28
      It turns out that reactors are installed mainly only on military ships

      Civil vessels are not equipped with nuclear power plants, not because
      for everything else, reactors are EXCESSIVE!

      Because entry into most ports for ships with nuclear power plants is closed.
      That is why nuclear power plants are used only on specialized vessels, but for the military this ban has no role.
      1. +2
        27 September 2023 17: 03
        Quote: Popandos
        Because entry into most ports for ships with nuclear power plants is closed.

        And where it is not closed, then it will take six months to coordinate the entry, having drawn up a carload of documents. And then, at the entrance to the port, disperse the Ikolukhs climbing under the stem.
        1. 0
          27 September 2023 18: 19
          Quote: Alexey RA
          And then, at the entrance to the port, disperse the Ikolukhs climbing under the stem.
          For what? Can they damage the stem? If not, then let them climb - their problem.
          1. +1
            27 September 2023 18: 24
            Quote: bk0010
            For what? Can they damage the stem? If not, then let them climb - their problem.

            No, the captain of the ship will have problems. After such a ramming, it will take a long time to arrange exit from the port, dealing with the local authorities - "who's guilty" And "were all measures taken to prevent the incident?".
            - Ugh! How stupid the game has become - I spent half a day running after it to photograph it!
            - That’s not enough, now you’ll have to run after him for half a day.
            - Why so?
            - And to give away the photo.
  7. +4
    27 September 2023 11: 10
    So, let's look at some of the author's proposals.
    Armored (carpass) deck. The armor must be such that it can withstand the impact of current and future (hypersonic!!!) missiles. The armor is broken through due to kinetic energy, and then, according to the school formula, um ve-squared in half. And in my opinion, the heads of the anti-ship missiles are armor-piercing - fragmentation. There was such a wonderful toy “Navi Field”, its current analogue “World of Ships”, but!!! There you could change your reservation. And very quickly people came to the conclusion that “if the armor does not protect against the main caliber of the enemy, then well, what the hell with this armor.”
    Anti-torpedo protection. This is empty (filled with pipes and other filler) space on each side. Width - from 3 meters. Again, it should provide protection against current and future torpedoes. Do not forget that magnetic fuses that ensure the explosion of a torpedo under the bottom appeared back in the 30s. Then they were VERY unreliable (2 torpedo crises, hunting for the Bismarck), but now... An explosion can (and should) be under the bottom, PTZ will not save.
    Well, about the “conversion” of icebreakers into destroyers. You won’t get away with external cosmetic changes; everything will be more expensive and sadder. Here it was mentioned in the comments that in the USSR they tried to make a large landing craft or an aircraft carrier based on a civilian ship, but everything stalled at the design stage, and the result was “axe soup.” And the combat stability of a surface ship (formation) on the CSF is very doubtful, taking into account the overwhelming advantage of NATO in reconnaissance and aviation.
    1. +2
      27 September 2023 12: 08
      Quote: Not the fighter
      Armored (carpass) deck. The armor must be such that it can withstand the impact of current and future (hypersonic!!!) missiles. The armor is broken through due to kinetic energy, and then, according to the school formula, um ve-squared in half.

      The whole ambush is that a rocket is not a projectile. Everything about a projectile is decorous and noble - a ballistic trajectory, certain angles of incidence at a certain range, a decrease in speed at the point of contact with the target as the firing range increases - and as a result, starting from a certain range, armor of a certain thickness ceases to penetrate. Free maneuvering zones are formed in which the side can no longer be broken through, and the deck has not yet broken through.
      RKR has none of this. The angle of encounter with the armor depends on the flight profile settings and the target's attack. At best, the speed is constant, and at worst, when approaching the target, it can even increase multiple times due to the additional acceleration block. In fact, for anti-ship missiles, the range disappears from the armor penetration tables - it always hits “point-blank”.
      Quote: Not the fighter
      And in my opinion, the heads of the anti-ship missiles are armor-piercing - fragmentation.

      These are still “soft” goals. As soon as armor appears, armor-piercing warheads will immediately appear, and even accelerated at the final section of the trajectory.
      By the way, some modern anti-ship missiles already have semi-armor-piercing warheads. True, the purpose of this decision was not to penetrate the armor, but to protect the warhead itself from penetration of its hull and detonation of explosives when hit by ZAK shells.
  8. +5
    27 September 2023 13: 20
    The article is pure graphomania.
    TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
  9. +4
    27 September 2023 13: 42
    Does the secondary editor generally check authors and their articles for sanity? "nuclear armored destroyer"? Oh well
  10. +2
    27 September 2023 13: 56
    the time has come to bring a fresh spirit to the names of ships

    To hell with the state of the fleet, we need to give out new names! Then we'll live!
  11. 0
    27 September 2023 14: 18
    Quote: Kolin
    Meanwhile, to protect against Onyx with an armor-piercing warhead, you will need at least 700 mm of steel.

    Where is the droushka?
  12. 0
    27 September 2023 14: 20
    Quote: Alexey RA
    These are still “soft” goals. As soon as armor appears, armor-piercing warheads will immediately appear, and even accelerated at the final section of the trajectory

    And how much will it weigh, an armor-piercing warhead? How to penetrate armor + bulkheads, this is not Sheffield cardboard punching holes.
    1. +1
      27 September 2023 14: 37
      Quote: Foma Kinyaev
      And how much will it weigh, an armor-piercing warhead?

      The same "Harpoon" has a warhead mass of 225 kg. By naval artillery standards, this is a 254 mm projectile.

      Moreover, in comparison with a projectile, the design of the body of an armor-piercing warhead can be lightweight - the rear part of the warhead is not affected by the pressure of the powder gases when fired, and it does not need to accelerate from zero to 900 m/s in just 12 meters of the barrel.
      1. 0
        27 September 2023 20: 23
        Quote: Alexey RA
        The same "Harpoon" has a warhead mass of 225 kg. By the standards of naval artillery, this is a 254-mm projectile

        Yes, and Harpoon has a thick-walled blank, made of hardened steel and a Makarov cap, I guess?
        1. 0
          28 September 2023 10: 08
          Quote: Foma Kinyaev
          Yes, and Harpoon has a thick-walled blank, made of hardened steel and a Makarov cap, I guess?

          Again:
          Quote: Alexey RA
          As soon as the armor appears - armor-piercing warheads will appear immediately, and even accelerated at the final section of the trajectory.

          The current semi-armor-piercing warhead "Harpoon" was taken only to estimate the mass of a possible future armor-piercing warhead and compare it with an armor-piercing projectile.
  13. 0
    27 September 2023 14: 28
    Quote: Alexey RA
    And not some ultra-supernovas with Western filling, but ordinary old 112-pot blockheads from the era of dear Leonid Ilyich.

    Oh, yes, the sofa engine guys have caught up. We should have put them up against the wall a long time ago. We read - “blockheads”, ultra-supernova, Western filling, old 112-pots... the vocabulary clearly shows that we are looking at an ordinary corrupt salary rattle.
    1. +2
      27 September 2023 14: 50
      Quote: Foma Kinyaev
      Oh, yes, the sofa engine guys have caught up. We should have put them up against the wall a long time ago. We read - “blockheads”, ultra-supernova, Western filling, old 112-pots... the vocabulary clearly shows that we are looking at an ordinary corrupt salary rattle.

      So let’s write it down: there are no complaints about the facts, but I want to get to the bottom of it.

      "Zvezdovsky" M507A with 112 cylinders has been around for more than half a century - they were installed on MRK pr. 1234, which were built since the late 60s. And then there were no problems with production. And a couple of years ago, Zvezda had difficulty producing three of the same diesel engines a year. Despite the fact that shipbuilders needed at least 2-3 times more of them. It came to the point of disruption of the shipbuilding program for small ships. Not because of sanctions. Not because of import substitution. But only because our industries could not cope with the production of the old Soviet engine.
  14. -1
    27 September 2023 14: 32
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    I’ll write just one thought - the development of the fleet entails the development of the industrial base and design ideas

    Thank you, Cap, - we must first build ships and then an industrial base will appear. A straight-up burning truth - in the annals.... or in the anals... I don’t know how much there should be...
  15. 0
    27 September 2023 14: 46
    beloved author

    Judging by the article, the author’s most ardent lovers are junior medical workers in specialized institutions.
    1. +2
      27 September 2023 17: 07
      Quote: Dekabrist
      Judging by the article, the author’s most ardent lovers are junior medical workers in specialized institutions.

      Author and critics. smile
  16. +5
    27 September 2023 15: 54
    Strong advice to the author. Study fleet equipment, strategy and tactics of naval forces. At least 3-4 years, but persistently. Then, move on to commenting on articles on specialized resources, and at the same time complete your studies for the same number of years. But after this it will be possible to write your own articles.
    1. +1
      27 September 2023 17: 17
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Strong advice to the author. Study fleet equipment, strategy and tactics of naval forces.

      Dear Andrey, I think you shouldn’t approach this so categorically, just read the transition of the armored cruiser “Admiral Nakhimov” from Kronstadt to the Far East and what damage it received in the Gulf of Finland in the presence of ice and try to compare it with what damage the ship will receive in the Arctic.
      1. +3
        27 September 2023 18: 21
        Dear Igor, to my deep regret, the author literally has three mistakes in every word. And the first of them is that any type of weapon is created to solve specific combat missions that arise for this type of weapon within the framework of the concept of using the country’s armed forces as a whole. And that the first thing he should have determined is precisely the tasks that need to be solved on the Northern Sea Route. And to do this, we need to understand at least a little about what forces the US and NATO are going to use in those areas and how.
        If the author had done this, he would have seen that there are simply no tasks for the destroyer on the NSR. And then... Honestly speaking, I was filled with Homeric laughter even at his arguments about armor and stability, and then I read through tears. Ice cutters, which the author is going to use to push the ice... Well, at least look at the photo of what he is going to push, there are a lot of photographs of icebreakers working... About prices - the author compares the price tag for SSBNs of the early 2000s with the prices for icebreakers that are still not built. Inflation? No, I haven’t heard... And so it is in everything.
        1. +2
          27 September 2023 18: 41
          And the first of them is that any type of weapon is created to solve specific combat missions that arise for this type of weapon within the framework of the concept of using the country’s armed forces as a whole.

          good That's why I paid attention only to the effect of ice on the ship's hull.
      2. +3
        27 September 2023 18: 29
        You can also remember the Ice Campaign of the Baltic Fleet.
        And even better - EONs with the transfer of ships along the NSR from east to west or vice versa. Even KRL 68 bis suffered there.
        1. +2
          27 September 2023 19: 25
          Quote: Alexey RA
          You can also remember the Ice Campaign of the Baltic Fleet.
          And even better - EONs with the transfer of ships along the NSR from east to west or vice versa. Even KRL 68 bis suffered there.

          I think it’s better for the author not to talk about this; all the logic presented in the article will collapse.
  17. 0
    27 September 2023 17: 52
    Quote: Foma Kinyaev
    Where is the droushka?

    A 280 mm projectile weighing 300 kg at a speed of 884 m/s will penetrate more than 600 mm of armor.
  18. +2
    27 September 2023 18: 16
    The horizontal armored deck at the level of the lower waterline in the bow of the ship will serve
    It won’t work: the dead end of the path of armored cruisers (and this is their armor scheme) has been recognized by everyone since the time of the Russian-Japanese War. And nothing has happened since then that could revive this scheme.
    Thousands of tons of armor or its complete absence, probably, the truth is somewhere in the middle, in a reasonable compromise of all available means of protecting the ship.
    In this matter there is no truth in the middle. Armor is installed for a reason, but to protect something from something. A heavy cruiser from six-inch light cruisers (well, if not for the moronic agreements, this would be the case everywhere), a battleship from the shells of a battleship, etc. What do you want to protect your destroyer from? From 127 mm shells? From Harpoon? From Lrasm? Up to a third of the displacement was allocated for armor; destroyers and other small items were not armored at all (useless). You are going to fit into 10000 tons, which means there can be up to 3000 tons of armor. A harpoon can bring you more than 200 kg of warheads at transonic speed, LRASM - more than 450 kg is also close to the speed of sound. Moreover, all this joy can fly both on board and on the deck (and shells) too. If you put 3000 tons of armor on an armored belt, then the Harpoon (if it hits the armored belt) can hold it (it definitely minimizes the consequences of a hit), but there’s definitely no chance of decently armoring the deck. By the way, the battleships had the same problem: even shells began to fly from above, and not into the armored belt (they began to shoot from a distance), I’m generally silent about bombs. There is an option - local booking, but it is used anyway.
    When using a serial and reliable main power plant from the latest generation of SSBNs on the latest destroyers, we are practically guaranteed from suffering with gearboxes, gas turbine and diesel engines, leaving childhood illnesses behind
    And why is that? There are diesel engines on nuclear-powered ships, as well as gearboxes.
    Our powerful, beautiful and expensive destroyers are designed to be provided with this very AWACS by tiltrotors based on them.
    A tiltrotor is very expensive (3 new Il-76s), the cost of an hour of flight is high (like that of a strategic bomber), it does not have enough energy for a decent radar, and it is not a fact that it will lift it.
    By creating an unmanned tiltrotor AWACS, we immediately eliminate the risk to the lives of three to five highly qualified specialists in a narrow field

    no less than 300 kilometers from the ship, providing direct communication lines for both control of the UAV itself and lines for transmitting intelligence information from onboard locators
    Having removed the specialists from board, you transferred them to the ship (yes, they are still needed, this is not the crew that the UAV replaced), that is, you must provide a high-speed data transmission channel to the ship. And how are you going to do it for 300 km? Now it seems that controlled UAVs do not fly beyond 150 km. Don’t look at the USA: they control their strategic UAVs via satellite, we don’t have that.
    1. +3
      27 September 2023 18: 39
      Quote: bk0010
      You are going to fit into 10000 tons, which means there can be up to 3000 tons of armor. A harpoon can bring you more than 200 kg of warheads at transonic speed, LRASM - more than 450 kg is also close to the speed of sound.

      This is now when ships have no armor. As soon as she appears, the “sword” will immediately pull up behind the “shield”. And in response, LRASM-AP will appear with a warhead equivalent to a 305-mm armor-piercing projectile, and even with additional acceleration at the final section of the trajectory.
      In general, the AP Mark 15 will fly to the target at a speed of 650-700 m/s. With armor penetration of about 550-600 mm.
  19. -4
    27 September 2023 20: 27
    Quote: Alexey RA
    "Zvezdovsky" M507A with 112 cylinders has been around for more than half a century - they were installed on MRK pr. 1234, which were built since the late 60s. And then there were no problems with production. And a couple of years ago, Zvezda had difficulty producing three of the same diesel engines a year. Despite the fact that shipbuilders required at least 2-3 times more of them

    Shipbuilders, and especially the gold-plated scum, had to place orders on time 10 years in advance and then there would be no missed deadlines. Otherwise, they stocked up on MAN diesels and then suddenly remembered about Zvezda when the balls jammed.
    And 507 diesel engines are high-speed, boat engines with a very high power density.
    Sofa shipbuilder.
    1. +1
      28 September 2023 10: 20
      Quote: Foma Kinyaev
      Shipbuilders, and especially the gold-plated scum, had to place orders on time 10 years in advance and then there would be no missed deadlines.

      And what, the same general director of “Zvezda” was forced by the warriors, under threat of execution, to sign a contract - with volumes and terms? Although even then it will be clear that the plant will disrupt it?
      The industry, as always, decided to cut the dough - they say, we’ll recruit people through advertisements, we’ll do something someday, and we’ll tell the Customer about objective problems. And this customer will not do anything to the monopolists - take what they give, there will be no other.
      Quote: Foma Kinyaev
      And 507 diesel engines are high-speed, boat engines with a very high power density.

      Does this somehow negate the fact that the plant has been producing these engines for more than half a century, and during that time you can already learn to realistically assess your capabilities? Or is it that this engine is a Soviet design, designed for the country’s internal resources, so that failure to meet the delivery deadlines specified in the contract signed by the plant is not related to force majeure in the form of sanctions and lies solely with the plant?
      Or did the general director get lost in time and decide that it was the USSR again, when the plant was producing a dozen DEU ship kits a year?
      1. 0
        28 September 2023 22: 35
        Quote: Alexey RA
        And what, the same general director of “Zvezda” was forced by the warriors, under threat of execution, to sign a contract - with volumes and terms?
        It may well be that under the threat of his dismissal (the state is a shareholder) and fines for the enterprise (there is such an article - refusal of state defense orders). When there are civilian orders, they don’t want to have anything to do with the military - it’s hemorrhoids and unprofitable.
  20. -3
    27 September 2023 20: 30
    Quote: Kolin
    A 280 mm projectile weighing 300 kg at a speed of 884 m/s will penetrate more than 600 mm of armor.

    And what does a projectile have to do with it? A projectile is a thick-walled structure made of hardened steel with a thickness of 100-300 mm or more in the head part. And a rocket is cardboard. Is it possible to pierce a thick sheet of plywood with a raw egg?
    1. +1
      27 September 2023 21: 22
      Quote: Foma Kinyaev
      And the rocket is cardboard.
      Granite was made so that it would penetrate Iowa, hold Vulcan shells (20 mm) and Sparrow fragments.
    2. +1
      27 September 2023 22: 54
      Can you pierce a thick sheet of plywood with a raw egg?

      Imagine - it's possible. It all depends on the speed of the egg.
    3. -1
      28 September 2023 09: 12
      Quote: Foma Kinyaev
      And what does a projectile have to do with it? A projectile is a thick-walled structure made of hardened steel with a thickness of 100-300 mm or more in the head part. And a rocket is cardboard. Is it possible to pierce a thick sheet of plywood with a raw egg?

      The warhead for a missile can be made to be anything you want, including one more suitable for penetrating armor than a projectile.
    4. +3
      28 September 2023 10: 45
      Quote: Foma Kinyaev
      The projectile is a thick-walled structure made of hardened steel with a thickness of 100-300 mm or more in the head part. And the rocket is cardboard.

      As I understand it, you confidently got involved in the dispute about anti-ship missiles without knowing their design... laughing

      So: in the light body of the rocket there is a warhead compartment. In which any warhead can be located, provided that its MGC is not larger than the standard warhead included in the design initially.
      Even today, on the same “Harpoon” with its body made of elite cardtonium, in the warhead compartment there is an armored HE warhead (also classified as semi-armor-piercing):
      The warhead compartment (weight 230 kg, length 0,9 m) houses a conventional high-explosive charge in an armored casing, which prevents its destruction when encountering an armored barrier. The warhead is equipped with an actuator-safety mechanism, an impact fuse and a proximity fuse.

      In general, the anti-ship missile system itself is just a flying container for warheads.
  21. 0
    4 January 2024 23: 27
    Why isn’t the armored deck karpasny?
  22. kig
    0
    6 January 2024 02: 24
    I read it with interest. It's time for the author to write SF novels; there will be no end to readers.