Military Review

Sweden in NATO: in Tula with your own samovar

155
Sweden in NATO: in Tula with your own samovar

There is a very peculiar country nearby, like Sweden. With a population less than the population of Moscow, but with a simply amazing defense industry that allows you to almost completely satisfy the needs of your armed forces in terms of equipment and weapons.


This past July, our great diplomatic neighbor, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, signaled that he would finally drop his objections to Sweden's entry into NATO's European security alliance. Hungary, which backed the Turkish bloc, indicated that it would not prevent Sweden from joining if Turkey gave the green light. In general, the Koran was burned in vain, politics is stronger than faith.

This means that after a procedural vote this fall, Sweden is ready to become the 32nd member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

Sweden and NATO began to cooperate more closely after the end of the Cold War, and an additional impetus came in 2014 when events in Ukraine began, most of which were blamed on Russia. However, for a very long time, a minority of Swedes believed that joining the alliance would benefit them.

Sweden's accession to NATO is clearly the merit of the Russian Foreign Ministry and the Russian media, which together carried out (according to the Swedish media) a policy of non-alignment with NATO through open intimidation, including by nuclear forces. Well, the beginning of the NWO did not really push, but gave a kick to the Swedes towards NATO.

Ultimately, the Russian operation in Ukraine, which also dreamed of NATO, finally convinced most Swedes (as well as neighboring Finns) that they needed the additional protection provided by the alliance.

But unlike Finland, which officially joined NATO on April 4 this year, Sweden has been subject to a lengthy blockade by Turkey and Hungary, with the former particularly complaining that Sweden is too accommodating to both Kurdish separatists of Turkish origin and anti-Islamic demonstrators. Well, the burning of the Koran played a role, although in Turkey it was not greeted as violently as in Syria.

And suddenly Erdogan backed down. It is difficult to say why this suddenly happened, but they say that in addition to the words of guarantees from Sweden, words from the United States have been added, guaranteeing a trouble-free modernization of the F-16 fighters in service with the Turkish Air Force.


Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan (left) and Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson shake hands with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg before meeting on the eve of the NATO summit in Vilnius July 10, 2023.

Whatever the reason, Erdogan abruptly retracted his veto based on what he was assured by the representatives of Sweden and the United States.

Who can break the Swedes?


Yes, this is “Hurrah, we are breaking, the Swedes are bending” - this is far away, in stories. Today, the armed forces of Sweden are about 15 thousand people and it is impossible to call them a significant addition to the forces of the alliance, the total number of whose armies has long gone beyond 3 million people.

However, it is worth considering here that in terms of equipment, the Swedish army is superior to many European armies of countries that have long been NATO members. There are such strange neutrals. Very well armed.


In addition, one should not ignore the fact that Sweden is geographically located to strengthen NATO's defenses where the alliance is now most vulnerable. That is, in Scandinavia. After all, Finland, twice inferior in population to Sweden, has a smaller army. And it looks very doubtful as a NATO combat unit, although the Finnish fleet, although sharpened for mine operations, is quite capable of solving many problems.


Sweden lies between NATO members Norway and Denmark to the west and Finland to the east, and has between one and two thousand miles of coastline on the Baltic Sea. This is important, because if in the future NATO needs to blockade the Kaliningrad enclave of Russia, where the warships of the Baltic fleet, it will be very easy to do. Despite the presence of ships and ground-based anti-ship systems in Russia.

With Sweden joining NATO, Russian warships, submarines and aircraft in and over the Baltic will be forced to pass between the "jaws of the crocodile": the coastlines of Sweden and Finland in the north and the coastlines of Germany, Denmark, Poland and the Baltic states in the south. And, by and large, the Swedish island of Gotland is located right in the center of the Baltic.

Membership in the alliance guarantees NATO intervention to protect Sweden, and Sweden, in turn, undertakes to provide assistance in the event of an attack on Finland or the Baltic countries.

Of course, Russian aggression against NATO members seems even more unthinkable now that Russia is preoccupied with an operation in Ukraine, giving many reasons to overestimate its military capabilities. But nevertheless, NWO is precisely the reason why the Swedes and Finns lost faith in the intentions of Russia and rushed to membership in the alliance.

What is the Swedish military machine capable of?


The Swedish Armed Forces are dedicated to the territorial defense of Sweden and the surrounding waters of the Baltic Sea, although they have demonstrated some ability to deploy aircraft and mechanized peacekeeping forces abroad in various peacekeeping operations. But peacekeeping operations should not be considered at a serious level; just look at where and with what contingents the Swedes “made peace.”

Overall, Sweden has a very mature military industry for a country of 10,5 million people. It manufactures its own jet fighters, early warning aircraft, modern non-nuclear submarines, infantry fighting vehicles, anti-tank weapons and heavy artillery. Swedish aircraft and armored vehicles are adapted to NATO standards and are already used in many armies of the alliance.

Swedish Air Force Saab JAS 39 Gripen jet fighters take part in a NATO exercise as part of the NATO air policing mission in the sovereign airspace of the Alliance on July 4, 2023.


The Swedish Air Force operates 94 fourth-generation Saab JAS-39 Gripen C/D multirole fighters, comparable to the American F-16Cs but better optimized for point operations. In addition, the Griffins have a very useful feature: a very short take-off run, allowing you to take off from highways and small airports.

In the future, the Air Force will be strengthened with the addition of 70 Generation 4+ Gripen-E fighters with improved stealth, longer range, advanced radars with AESA jamming capability and upgraded F414 turbofans to enable supersonic cruise. What can I say, in SAAB planes have always been made head and shoulders better than cars.

Other Air Force assets include two domestically produced airborne early warning aircraft, one KC-130 tanker, five C-130 transport aircraft, and more than 50 utility helicopters.


At sea, the Swedish Navy operates five Visby-class small stealth corvettes with anti-submarine weapons and RBS-15 Mk.2 anti-ship missiles, developed by SAAB Bofors Dynamіcs together with the German company Diehl BGT Defence. The missile has a range of up to 70 km, which is more than enough in the conditions of the Baltic, and it can be launched from any carrier: surface, ground and air.


The fleet is armed with six more older corvettes of the Gothenburg type, mine-sweeping ships and boats. Quite a decent anti-submarine fleet.

In addition, the Swedes have three Gotland-class submarines and two Södermanland-class submarines in their fleet, which have an air-independent Stirling-engine propulsion system, which allows them to swim underwater at low speeds for several weeks - much longer. than traditional diesel-electric submarines.


Swedish Navy submarine HSwMS Gotland in San Diego in 2005. Gotland, as you know, "sank" a nuclear aircraft carrier during the exercises thanks to its air-independent propulsion system.

Naval support assets include 11 anti-submarine patrol boats, 9 minesweepers and approximately 150 CB90 jet-propelled fast attack craft. They can be used by the Navy's two active Marine amphibious battalions. Although Stockholm has decommissioned its fixed coastal defense batteries, the Swedish Marines have now been using the Hellfire-based RBS-17 mobile short-range missiles in an anti-ship version since 2016.

In terms of heavy armor, the Swedish ground forces are virtually equal to the recently reduced British Army, despite Sweden having one-sixth of the British population.


The Swedish army has 120 tanks Stridsvagen 122 (It's just a German "Leopard" 2A5, greatly improved by order of the Swedish side), 354 CV9040 tracked infantry fighting vehicles (which are unusually heavily armored and armed for their class with 40 mm cannons) and more than 300 lighter Finnish Patria eight-wheeled armored personnel carriers.


CV90 combat vehicle during exercise Aurora 23

However, the Swedish army remains small in terms of manpower, with six mechanized battalions (tanks and IFVs), two motorized battalions (wheeled armored personnel carriers), four rifle battalions, and one airborne ranger battalion and one chasseur mountain infantry battalion each.


Stridsvagn 122 tanks during exercise Aurora 23 at the Rinkaby training ground near Kristianstad, Sweden, May 06, 2023

While Sweden was building its own tanks, including the turretless S-tank and the L-60 light tank, the Stridsvagen 122 is a heavily modified German Leopard 2A5 tank with heavier and more advanced composite armor, Barracuda infrared camouflage system, French smoke grenades GALIX, as well as local radio stations and fire control systems.

Support units include four artillery battalions equipped with Archer self-propelled guns, two engineer battalions and two air defense battalions with short-range RBS-70 and IRIS-T systems, as well as HAWK medium-range missiles (AKA RBS-97), which will be replaced by American Patriot systems.


Archer artillery system of an artillery regiment during exercise Aurora 23.

The National Guard, Sweden's reserve force, can raise another 40 light infantry battalions, 22 strong.


Despite the fact that the Swedish armed forces are few in number, they have a certain value, since they are located near Finland and the Baltic states, places that NATO would really have to defend in the event of a conflict with Russia.

The Swedish air force and navy could contribute to the collective defense of these countries on the 1st day of the conflict, while ground forces could be deployed more quickly to help neighboring Finland or, via air and sea routes , the Baltics. The additional lines of communication that Sweden opens up, allowing NATO to strengthen the vulnerable Baltic states, are especially valuable, as they reduce dependence on the Suwalki Gap, a narrow land corridor between pro-Russian Belarus and Kaliningrad (according to the Americans).

In fact, the so-called Suwalki corridor is a kind of Veksler test, but for the military. All the talk about this strip of land is really a test for mental inferiority. The Suwalki corridor is a perfectly shot through territory, inconvenient for the advancement of troops, low-lying and swampy. And only a general who has not passed this very Veksler test can poke his head in there.

It is much easier to break Lithuania in a day or two and make a normal trip to Kaliningrad. But this is another topic for conversation, just inspired by music.

In general, although no one forbids or ridicules the Swedes' desire to see a Russian submarine in every shoal of Baltic herring, the prospect of becoming a first-day shield is so-so.

However, the Swedes themselves made their choice. NATO is NATO.

Swedish soldiers take part in NATO exercise Trident Juncture in the Roros region, central Norway, October 27, 2018. It was the largest NATO military exercise since the end of the Cold War.

But it was Russia's special military operation in Ukraine in 2022 that finally convinced the majority of Swedes to support joining NATO. And Russian diplomacy was unable to change the situation.

Early on, Sweden provided Ukraine with extensive military assistance, including 15 AT000 anti-tank missiles, RBS-4 surface-to-air missiles, NLAW and BILL anti-tank guided missiles, machine guns, Barret sniper rifles, and more than 70 sets of body armor. That is, something that could be used immediately and without additional training.

More advanced technology followed. 10 Stridsvagen 122 tanks, more than 50 CV9040C combat vehicles, air defense equipment, RBS-17 Hellfire anti-ship missiles and eight 155mm Archer howitzers. The 21st mechanized brigade was equipped with Swedish-made vehicles, which was also trained in Sweden and by Swedish instructors.

In general, there is no sadder story in the world than the tale of the old Swedish neutrality. Although the Swedish neutrality itself is so strange. And during the Second World War, he easily allowed to drive steamships with iron ore to those against whom the entire civilized world fought. You can say they were wrong.

Today, too, not everything is smooth and smooth, but there is nothing to be done. There is no neutrality, but how beneficial it will be for the Swedes from joining NATO - time will tell. The army of the country is really not bad, armed quite decently and is of combat value. Yes, some “own” products are slightly different from the standards of the alliance, but here the question is this: the Swedes come with their own.

Of course, Sweden's accession to NATO is an unpleasant moment. Sweden is not Finland, not the Baltic countries. This is already a slightly different level, higher. And the most unpleasant thing is that now the Baltic Sea will finally become a NATO sea, and we will have new problems that will not be easy to solve. But we will talk about what can happen in the Baltic next time.

In the meantime, as a result, it is worth expressing regret that Sweden has ceased to be a neutral country and has moved into the NATO camp. This country is a really good force on the water and in the air, which does not promise us bright prospects.
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  1. Temnukhin Anton
    Temnukhin Anton 6 September 2023 04: 41
    +23
    It is extremely strange to see in the same article both the words that Sweden is “a different level, higher”, “it is a good force”, and jokes in the style of “there is no sadder story in the world”, detracting from the threat. Another very good force has passed into the camp of our "respected partners", thanks to the brilliant and decisive results of the SVO and the professional actions of our Foreign Ministry, and there is no room for jokes here. It is unlikely that our northern direction is covered by such a large number of troops as not to notice 15 thousand well-equipped soldiers, plus 22 thousand reservists, put under arms in the shortest possible time. Plus three fresh divisions in the north ... There is something to think about. And now start taking action. At a minimum, to increase the survivability of ship parking and airfields.
    1. Civil
      Civil 6 September 2023 07: 26
      +7
      Whatever the reason, Erdogan abruptly retracted his veto based on what he was assured by the representatives of Sweden and the United States.

      "Drug Rajap" immediately said the reason - negotiations on Turkey's accession to the EU have been resumed. What knocked out the trump card of the opposition, which claimed that the Republic of Turkey was not accepted into the EU precisely because of Erdogan.
      The Swedish military industry is exactly what is most important for NATO.
      1. cpls22
        cpls22 6 September 2023 09: 31
        +3
        The Swedish military industry is exactly what is most important for NATO.
        - and if you look at it from a different angle, then the Swedish military-industrial complex is precisely the reason why the owner of NATO is not very interested in Sweden joining this military bloc. The Swedish military-industrial complex is the unconditional competitor of the US military-industrial complex.
        The article is informative, thanks. Although I missed the news about Sweden joining NATO. It seems that we had to wait for the autumn approval of the Turkish parliament, or whatever it is called? Has it already happened?
        1. FIR FIR
          FIR FIR 6 September 2023 12: 00
          +7
          Quote from cpls22
          the host of NATO is not very interested in Sweden's entry into this military bloc. The Swedish military-industrial complex is the unconditional competitor of the US military-industrial complex.

          He is no competitor. Otherwise Gripens would not have received an American engine. They are not competitors, but an addition to what the Americans have no hands on. One thing is clear, that NATO is expanding, and for Russia this is another challenge that is simply impossible not to respond to.
          1. cpls22
            cpls22 6 September 2023 16: 21
            0
            He is not a competitor. Otherwise, the Gripens would not have received an American engine.

            This argument is not entirely valid. All he says is that Sweden is not a potential adversary. After all, the Americans sold the engine to the Swedes, and not vice versa.
    2. smart ass
      smart ass 6 September 2023 10: 28
      +10
      So it was necessary to move it to the east that they got NATO 100 km from St. Petersburg! Brilliant!
      1. CAM
        CAM 6 September 2023 17: 44
        -3
        Have you just woken up? Finland and Sweden have actually been in NATO for a long time, standards, teachings. Now it is only fixed by the contract.
        1. cpls22
          cpls22 7 September 2023 08: 48
          0
          Now it's just fixed by the contract.

          "On July 10, 2023, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said that Turkish President Erdogan agreed to support Sweden's entry into NATO, two days later this was confirmed by Erdogan himself. However, the latter said that a decision would be made in October due to parliamentary recess"
          Let's wait for October, Pro forma.
      2. Lad
        Lad 7 September 2023 19: 33
        +1
        So after all, it is constantly stated on TV that everything is going according to plan. Obviously, since everything is according to plan, NATO expansion is also part of the plan. True, the plan is somehow too cunning, but what is it.
    3. Mikhail Ivanov
      Mikhail Ivanov 6 September 2023 12: 13
      -12
      If the man from the photo comes to Tula with this ax, then they will wrap him in a samovar and put him on the fire...
      All these show-offs from the West never ended in anything good. Who was last beaten by Sweden? They and their visitors would first resolve issues there, and then think about war...
      1. Escariot
        Escariot 6 September 2023 15: 14
        +1
        Quote: Mikhail-Ivanov
        If the man from the photo comes to Tula with this ax, then they will wrap him in a samovar and put him on the fire...
        All these show-offs from the West never ended in anything good. Who was last beaten by Sweden? They and their visitors would first resolve issues there, and then think about war...

        The last time - in the war of the sixth coalition. There, Prince Bernadotte (a former French marshal!) took an active part in the beating of France and Napoleon personally by a combined team assembled from all over Europe.
      2. Ilgizl
        Ilgizl 11 September 2023 23: 13
        0
        So why fight on your own if, like other NATO countries, you can supply Ukrainians with penguins for their money.
    4. Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira
      Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira 6 September 2023 13: 06
      -2
      What seems strange to me is the daily prodding of our Foreign Ministry with the deep conviction that it is he who is to blame for the fact that the Finns and Swedes joined NATO?! The same thing is similarly surprising in relation to the Northern Military District - thanks to her, the whole world learned that Russia is capable of defending its interests, including by military means?! Has this never happened before in the history of our state?! Haven't we fought before? At the same time, neither the Swedes nor the Finns were eager to join NATO, but diligently maintained their neutrality..."But Chubais is to blame for everything!!!"
      I think that the objective reason for the Swedes and Finns’ decision to change their status was the West’s overt desire to deal with the suddenly strengthened Russia and those who support it. That is why various schemes of pressure on everyone and everything began to cloud, that is why international laws and rules were forgotten, and to believe that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs did not say the “magic word” is naivety, cliche and stupidity!
      As usual, it was possible to take oaths, there was land, but it was impossible to stop anything in this game!
      The West must understand and be afraid that its existence is in mortal danger, but our love of peace and humility alone cannot do this. Our wishes for general safety are good when they are supported by the Dagger and Sarmat... and woe to those who do not have them at the right time!
  2. Edward
    Edward 6 September 2023 05: 16
    +4
    Even if Sweden and Finland had not joined NATO, anyway, in the event of a conflict, they would have been on their side. So there isn't much of a difference.
    1. Escariot
      Escariot 6 September 2023 05: 50
      +11
      Quote: Edward
      Even if Sweden and Finland had not joined NATO, anyway, in the event of a conflict, they would have been on their side. So there isn't much of a difference.

      Not at all. Before the NWO, countries and their populations largely favored neutrality.
    2. Plover
      Plover 6 September 2023 13: 11
      +4
      There are two points here. 1. Both Finland and Sweden, of course, were in the mode of information interaction before that. But being not bound by any obligations, they could act on the basis of their own interests. 2. Presence of other NATO troops. How do you like the US bases in Kotka or Lappeenranta? And if necessary, I'm sure they will appear there.
  3. Amateur
    Amateur 6 September 2023 05: 28
    +2
    Sweden is geographically located to strengthen NATO defenses there, where is the alliance most vulnerable now. That is, in Scandinavia.

    Interestingly, from whom is NATO "vulnerable"? From “aggressive Russia”, which “sleeps and sees” how to quickly attack Sweden and the Baltic states?
    Ostap suffered ...
  4. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 6 September 2023 05: 31
    +21
    In general, in Finland, unlike Sweden, there is a universal conscription. And obligatory reserve fees. The Finnish army can deploy 300 contingents for a week. Yes, and the Air Force in Finland is much more powerful.
    1. Plover
      Plover 6 September 2023 13: 13
      +6
      I agree that many people greatly underestimate the military potential of Finland. And in vain. If necessary, they can very effectively deter an attack precisely because of the large number of reservists who regularly undergo training and retraining.
      1. linux28
        linux28 6 September 2023 16: 58
        +4
        Quote: Plover
        many people greatly underestimate the military potential of Finland

        And not the first time.
  5. Escariot
    Escariot 6 September 2023 05: 47
    +9
    There are such strange neutrals. Very well armed.

    A relatively powerful army is needed because of neutrality. An uncle from overseas will not help a neutral country fight off the enemy. All by yourself. All on your own.
    In fact, the so-called Suwalki corridor is a kind of Veksler test, but for the military. All the talk about this strip of land is really a test for mental inferiority. The Suwalki corridor is a perfectly shot through territory, inconvenient for the advancement of troops, low-lying and swampy. And only a general who has not passed this very Veksler test can poke his head in there.

    It’s much easier to break Lithuania in a day or two and make a normal journey to Kaliningrad

    You can destroy Lithuania in two days, or you can get stuck in the siege of Vilnius for half a year, after which there will be no need to rush to Kaliningrad.
    1. Lynx2000
      Lynx2000 6 September 2023 06: 29
      +1
      Quote from Escariot
      A relatively powerful army is needed because of neutrality. An uncle from overseas will not help a neutral country fight off the enemy. All by yourself. All on your own.

      A neutral country will be helped not by an “uncle from overseas”, but by the trade or financial interest of the warring parties; through such countries there is trade in necessary raw materials and goods, including military ones, financial settlements and other transfers.
      Sweden, Switzerland know and remember this, you can also remember Portugal, Ireland, even Spain, the countries of Latin America, etc.
      The formula: “both ours and yours” protects better than its army...
      1. realing
        realing 6 September 2023 13: 32
        +2
        Let me remind you that Switzerland in World War II was saved not only by finances, but also by a good army located in a remote mountainous area
        1. pettabyte
          pettabyte 6 September 2023 14: 02
          -1
          If we wanted to, we would have bombed this very mountainous area.
          And there they will either die out or surrender.
          They (from the Reich) were saved by the fact that "they are, well, like Germans (let them sit for now, then they themselves will come to us)".
          1. Escariot
            Escariot 6 September 2023 15: 23
            -1
            Quote: pettabyte
            If we wanted to, we would have bombed this very mountainous area.
            And there they will either die out or surrender.
            They (from the Reich) were saved by the fact that "they are, well, like Germans (let them sit for now, then they themselves will come to us)".

            You are categorically wrong. The fact is that Germany desperately needed the transport network of Switzerland, and the Swiss, at any kipish, threatened to undermine the tunnels. So, despite the hatred of Switzerland, Hitler did not dare to attack her, but the Swiss let goods pass through their territory, but not troops
        2. Lynx2000
          Lynx2000 6 September 2023 14: 14
          +2
          Quote from realing
          Let me remind you that Switzerland in World War II was saved not only by finances, but also by a good army located in a remote mountainous area

          Bad or good army - determines the result of hostilities. During WWII, Switzerland had aerial incidents with Nazi Germany (aircraft shot down on both sides). They were connected with the German attack and the conduct of hostilities against France. After the second German warning, the commander-in-chief of the Swiss Armed Forces forbade the interception of Luftwaffe aircraft, only escort.
          The ground forces of both sides (Switzerland and Germany), if I am not mistaken, had no clashes. The Swiss defense plan "Redoubt" was intended not to repel an attack, but to hold out and create conditions for negotiations. Switzerland needed raw materials for industry and food, Germany needed transit corridors, access to banking transactions.
          For 1,5 centuries before that, garrisons and the best army of the French Republic in Europe were located in the Alps. Do you think that Switzerland would have won, and already surrounded by the "Axis"?
    2. tlauicol
      tlauicol 6 September 2023 08: 22
      0
      Quote from Escariot
      There are such strange neutrals. Very well armed.

      A relatively powerful army is needed because of neutrality. An uncle from overseas will not help a neutral country fight off the enemy. All by yourself. All on your own.
      In fact, the so-called Suwalki corridor is a kind of Veksler test, but for the military. All the talk about this strip of land is really a test for mental inferiority. The Suwalki corridor is a perfectly shot through territory, inconvenient for the advancement of troops, low-lying and swampy. And only a general who has not passed this very Veksler test can poke his head in there.

      It’s much easier to break Lithuania in a day or two and make a normal journey to Kaliningrad

      You can destroy Lithuania in two days, or you can get stuck in the siege of Vilnius for half a year, after which there will be no need to rush to Kaliningrad.

      this is at best. In general, you still need to get to Lithuania
    3. Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira
      Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira 6 September 2023 13: 11
      -1
      In the "siege of Vilnius" for what ?! If such a situation begins about Kaliningrad with "corridors", then there will be no one and no need to besiege there ...
    4. pettabyte
      pettabyte 6 September 2023 14: 00
      -7
      5 minutes, and Lithuania\Latvia\Estonia\Finland\Poland burn down.
      It's just that the world faces the fact that they don't exist.
      There is just a scorched strip that draws a clear border.

      The trick is not to think about what to do next (I think they will answer).
      Because if you are not afraid to use a weapon, they will not become very impudent and do not climb.
      The Russian Federation was afraid and is afraid - so they climb.
      1. Escariot
        Escariot 6 September 2023 15: 32
        +4
        Quote: pettabyte
        5 minutes, and Lithuania\Latvia\Estonia\Finland\Poland burn down.
        It's just that the world faces the fact that they don't exist.
        There is just a scorched strip that draws a clear border.

        The trick is not to think about what to do next (I think they will answer).
        Because if you are not afraid to use a weapon, they will not become very impudent and do not climb.
        The Russian Federation was afraid and is afraid - so they climb.

        And if they don’t piss, then in the next half hour most of the European part of Russia will burn. Let's take a chance?
        1. pettabyte
          pettabyte 6 September 2023 17: 24
          -6
          Why not.
          Considering that most of the US / EU will burn further, let the Strategic Missile Forces amuse themselves.
          1. Someone_Kakoevich
            Someone_Kakoevich 6 September 2023 18: 31
            +4
            Quote: pettabyte
            Why not.
            Considering that most of the US / EU will burn further, let the Strategic Missile Forces amuse themselves.

            And then, when Russia, the US and Europe have used up their arsenals on each other, China will enter the scene. And to whom he will turn his eyes is a very big question.
          2. Escariot
            Escariot 6 September 2023 18: 38
            +3
            Quote: pettabyte
            Why not.
            Considering that most of the US / EU will burn further, let the Strategic Missile Forces amuse themselves.

            If you are in such a hurry, you can go to heaven on your own, you should not drag the rest with you
        2. Victor Leningradets
          Victor Leningradets 7 September 2023 07: 00
          0
          And if they don’t piss, then in the next half hour most of the European part of Russia will burn. Let's take a chance?

          By all means
          Only in a strategic exchange. We hit from the ocean, better - two. That's when the leader with a barrel in the groin will not twitch. Otherwise, a limited nuclear war in Europe with the removal of our strategic nuclear weapons by tactical nuclear weapons of the enemy. This scenario was worked out many times both with them and with us with the same result.
          Well, actually, Europe is a rotten business. The main theater of operations is the Pacific Ocean.
      2. dump22
        dump22 6 September 2023 17: 11
        +3
        The trick is not to think about what to do next (I think they will answer).


        Don't think about it later - this is certainly useful advice. lol
        Only the trick is that they will piss NOT to answer.
        If you do not respond to nuclear blackmail, if you "give up" at least once, all your nuclear weapons can then be thrown into the trash, it will no longer have any deterrent effect.

        This is well understood by us and the West.
  6. Scientist
    Scientist 6 September 2023 06: 03
    +11
    Unfortunately, Russia lacks a strategy. Both in diplomacy and in economics and military affairs. Over the past decades, we have only been “responding to challenges,” that is, we are simply trying to reduce the damage from the actions of our enemies. Instead of preventing these challenges and forming the “agenda” ourselves.
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 6 September 2023 07: 44
      +4
      Instead of forestalling these challenges and setting the "agenda" ourselves.

      Better yet, we ourselves create these challenges and create new opportunities for new challenges from enemies. I already think no one has any doubts about what a big and multifaceted mistake the SVO turned out to be?
      1. Narrator
        Narrator 6 September 2023 08: 42
        +6
        I agree here. If we look at the same problems with Ukraine, we will see that the whole current situation is created by us, by our diplomacy. A series of wrong decisions that caused consequences, which we decided incorrectly, causing even greater negative consequences. For example, opinion polls show that until 2014 the inhabitants of Ukraine did not want to join NATO, the neutral status was fixed in the constitution of Ukraine. What we require during the NWO.

        We make mistakes, they will downvote me, but I think that Crimea was a mistake. Many like to talk about its strategic importance and all that. But in response, we got an aggressive neighbor, which is much worse. And the same Ukrainians would have scored on the Crimea and the West in general if we had not started to stir up with the DPR and LPR. And all this led to NWO ... and so on.
        1. Akim
          Akim 6 September 2023 10: 24
          0
          Quote from Narrator
          but I think that Crimea was a mistake

          it was necessary to sit and calmly watch how events will unfold after the Maidan inspired by the States? After him, diplomacy no longer seemed to work. Well, OK, they would sit and watch in silence .. as a result, they would get everything the same, the same US proteges in the leadership of Ukraine (the coup was started for some reason), the same hysteria (after all, it existed until 2014 in European countries ). Only Ukraine would already be in NATO (who would ask the desire of the population?), NATO ships would already be in Crimea on "legal grounds", and somewhere in the Donbas another unit of the NATO missile defense system would already be built. IMHO, there was one chance to leave it all, but it was blown away - Yanukovych had to appeal to the Russian Federation and firmly suppress the Maidan in the bud.
          1. Blackmokona
            Blackmokona 6 September 2023 10: 33
            +4
            it was necessary to sit and calmly watch how events will unfold after the Maidan inspired by the States?

            Arrange your own Maidan and overthrow the government was no longer an option? Or did the intelligence services and diplomats fail so badly that they couldn’t even count on revenge?
            1. Akim
              Akim 6 September 2023 12: 07
              -2
              Quote: BlackMokona
              Arrange your Maidan

              alas, the United States has been developing this technology for decades (remember at least Hungary) .. Russia still has to learn and learn
              1. Blackmokona
                Blackmokona 6 September 2023 12: 41
                +5
                Quote: Akim
                it was necessary to sit and calmly watch how events will unfold after the Maidan inspired by the States? After him, diplomacy no longer seemed to work. Well, OK, they would sit and watch in silence .. as a result, they would get everything the same, the same US proteges in the leadership of Ukraine (the coup was started for some reason), the same hysteria (after all, it existed until 2014 in European countries ). Only Ukraine would already be in NATO (who would ask the desire of the population?), NATO ships would already be in Crimea on "legal grounds", and somewhere in the Donbas another unit of the NATO missile defense system would already be built. IMHO, there was one chance to leave it all, but it was blown away - Yanukovych had to appeal to the Russian Federation and firmly suppress the Maidan in the bud.

                For almost a century, the USSR staged revolutions and financed pro-communist coups. Therefore, everything is worked out there. Over there in Africa, Wagner is calmly turning things around and turning them towards Russia.
                1. Akim
                  Akim 6 September 2023 15: 16
                  +4
                  The Russian Federation (and the USSR did not have) does not have such a systematic approach, designed for the long term, when the same necessary political figures are "led" almost to the school or student bench, and objectionable random upstarts are "buried", forming false accusations and scandals, when various training programs are involved, the processing of young people, the creation of a certain ideology based on national, religious and other background (depending on the region of influence) and its subsequent propaganda and development. Is it just that religious motives are in use in the Middle East and Central Asia, and in Ukraine nationalism was raised to the banner (with which the USSR was destroyed) and collaborators of the Second World War? The states carefully look for points of tension and pump them over. What is Wagner in Africa? This is simply military support, a power tool that the USSR is used to using and that the Russian Federation is trying to use. And the United States has a comprehensive flexible approach that involves diplomats, the military, the media, financiers, intelligence, mercenaries, educational institutions, various kinds of funds, etc. and so on. The Ukraine project began with the Austrians, continued with the Poles and Germans, and was finalized by the Americans (a quarter of a century). And at least for these quarter of a century it was necessary to work hard against it, because when he "shot" - neither the special services, nor diplomats, nor Wagner, nor the devil with incense will help .. which, in principle, is happening - extinguishing another fire using the oncoming fell, another "response to challenges." Crimea and Donbass are exactly the same version of "their own Maidan", for which the Russian Federation had enough skill and strength.
                  1. Blackmokona
                    Blackmokona 6 September 2023 17: 14
                    +2
                    It was, communist parties around the world were actively used for this
                  2. Someone_Kakoevich
                    Someone_Kakoevich 6 September 2023 18: 55
                    +5
                    Crimea and Donbass are exactly the same version of "their own Maidan", for which the Russian Federation had enough skill and strength.

                    Perhaps you are right, but this option has not been implemented to the end. It was necessary to squeeze everything out of the "legitimate president-Yanukovych" project. That is:
                    1. Do not accept Crimea as part of Russia (at that moment).
                    2. Unite Crimea, LPR and DPR into one country with the name Ukraine with President Yanukovych.
                    3. Designate the rest of Ukraine as the part of Ukraine captured by terrorists.
                    4. Act in the interests of Yanukovych and his part of Ukraine.
                    In fact, it turned out that neither Russia, nor Ukraine, nor the DPR, nor the LPR, nor Crimea needed Yanukovych. It was simply removed by the new authorities to the delight of everyone, and especially those who did not formally have a hand in this.
                    1. Akim
                      Akim 7 September 2023 06: 21
                      0
                      Yes, the option is not really implemented in full. It just turned out what happened, for which there was enough time, effort and skills. Here the people cannot understand in any way that the USSR (and, as a result, the Russian Federation) and the USA have completely different approaches. The USSR (and the Russian Federation) did / does everything at the state level - humanitarian aid, built something there (houses, schools, factories, power plants), some kind of gas / oil discounts, debt forgiveness, etc. This is all, as it were, "in general", within the framework of the "state-state" relationship, not personally, respectively, it belongs to no one and few people are interested in the country being spudded. The Russian Federation has the same strategy in foreign policy. The United States works with people - trains leaders, finances the media, processes public opinion, educates, and so on. It is personalized and plays on the self-interest of the individual. We went through all this - all sorts of Soros funds, USAID, NGOs, etc. Roughly speaking, the USSR (and the Russian Federation) builds and equips the school - a wonderful, beautiful gesture, duty gratitude, which is quickly forgotten. The United States, through the personal interest of officials of the country's Ministry of Education, brings their teachers to this school, dragging their teaching materials and the necessary curriculum. As a result, students form their views in the right way. In the end, the one who built the school simply spent the money, the teacher invested in the project with subsequent returns.
                      1. Narrator
                        Narrator 8 September 2023 12: 31
                        0
                        Because we act situationally, not strategically. This is mistake. If you listen to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and other government officials, you get the impression that the planning horizon is 3 months, and the only future they think about is the presidential election.

                        We have no serious plans, where we are going, what we want. And why is “soft power” generally thrown aside? Just developing economically, becoming the center of the post-Soviet space ... we could draw everyone into our orbit. The reality is Solovyov who threatens Kazakhstan on air. In 5 years we will wonder why Kazakhs kiss Americans on the gums.
              2. Narrator
                Narrator 8 September 2023 12: 24
                0
                This is all for conspiracy theorists. The fact that we placed our bets on Yanukovych, who was openly engaged in robbery. He was not an authority figure and looked like a stupid clown. Our mistake.
                Stories that the United States creates revolutions are as delusional as blaming Germany for the October Revolution. Revolution is a consequence of the accumulation of mistakes by the authorities within the country.
                And if we do not understand this, but we look for secret conspiracies of deep states and Freemasons, then we will walk on a rake.
          2. dump22
            dump22 6 September 2023 18: 59
            +5
            in the end, they would get everything the same, the same US proteges in the leadership of Ukraine


            There is experience.
            The sympathies of Ukrainians are very changeable.
            After the 1st Maidan, Yushchenko came to power.
            For 5 years, he completely lost popularity and became so hated by everyone in Ukraine, which is even surprising. And in 2010, Yanukovych won the election easily.

            Yanukovych had to appeal to the Russian Federation and firmly suppress the Maidan in the bud.


            Well, let's say Maidan would be severely suppressed.
            And how would Yanukovych be re-elected in the next elections in 2015?
            He would have had no chance if he had sat in 2014 only with the help of foreign troops.
            1. Akim
              Akim 7 September 2023 06: 26
              0
              Quote from: dump22
              And in 2010, Yanukovych won the election easily

              because the United States prepared so well for the next Maidan that an organized force was created that swept away Yanukovych. And those who were in favor of the current government were absolutely unorganized - no one took care of them.

              Quote from: dump22
              He wouldn't stand a chance

              so he didn’t have a chance anyway, he was removed anyway. And for example, you can look at Belarus, where the option with the Maidan did not work, not least because of the tough reaction of the Old Man.
          3. Victor Leningradets
            Victor Leningradets 7 September 2023 07: 05
            0
            But what about the 2014 Olympics, the 2018 Mundial, and the coveted SP-2?
            Everyone tried to maneuver, but they did not catch it.
        2. Disant
          Disant 6 September 2023 12: 31
          -1
          Narrator (Oleg)
          I think that Crimea was a mistake. Many people like to talk about its strategic importance and all that.

          what about the strategic importance? Have you reviewed any channels?
          Crimea is the people who live there. and since 1992, nationalists have already been rolling “friendship trains” to Crimea.
          .
          Have you heard their slogans?
          "Crimea will be Ukrainian or deserted"

          .
          in 2014, the last train turned around on its own, after they shot a convoy of anti-Maidan buses with Crimean residents on February 20, 2014.

          .
          what was going on in the Rada?
          - What are we going to do with 8 million Russians?
          - shoot with atomic weapons)
          1. Escariot
            Escariot 6 September 2023 16: 38
            +2
            Quote: Disant
            Narrator (Oleg)
            I think that Crimea was a mistake. Many people like to talk about its strategic importance and all that.

            what about the strategic importance? Have you reviewed any channels?
            Crimea is the people who live there. and since 1992, nationalists have already been rolling “friendship trains” to Crimea.
            .
            Have you heard their slogans?
            "Crimea will be Ukrainian or deserted"

            .
            in 2014, the last train turned around on its own, after they shot a convoy of anti-Maidan buses with Crimean residents on February 20, 2014.

            .
            what was going on in the Rada?
            - What are we going to do with 8 million Russians?
            - shoot with atomic weapons)

            If you are so worried about people, then they could well be resettled in Russia. Of course, this would cost money, but Russia is a rich country and we have a lot of places
            1. Disant
              Disant 7 September 2023 09: 00
              -2
              I'm not going to convince you, but what you are suggesting is the position of a madman.
              8 million Russians and other nationalities should also be resettled from Ukraine?
              Indians and Bushmen to give America and Australia, the rest - to settle around the world? and so on?
              1. from_Czechoslovakia
                from_Czechoslovakia 7 September 2023 12: 42
                +1
                To be honest, if 8 million Russians wanted to move to Russia, then there would not be a single Russian-speaking soldier in Army 404. All of them would already be in Russia.
              2. Yaroslav Tekkel
                Yaroslav Tekkel 7 September 2023 20: 26
                -1
                We are resettling millions of Tajiks, Uzbeks, Caucasians and others. We are already looking at blacks. And if some freak from Europe or the USA expresses a desire to leave for Russia "from the dominance of BLM and LGBT", then he will immediately have a red carpet, honorary citizenship and keys to an apartment. With the onset of SVO, the process only intensified. But to accept 8 million Russian people is no use, it would be better to fight to the last soldier.
                1. Disant
                  Disant 7 September 2023 22: 42
                  0
                  Yaroslav Tekkel
                  We resettle millions of Tajiks, Uzbeks, Caucasians and others
                  I don't understand what they are doing. migrant workers - okay, x with them, but when they give out passports - it's over the edge. well, after all, they themselves show us France and Germany - January 1, 2016 Cologne, in France the streets are constantly on fire ..
                  .

                  But to accept 8 million Russian people is no use, it would be better to fight to the last soldier.
                  how will you receive them? - Now, those who remained there are hostages - the borders are closed. women of military age were also banned from leaving the other day.
                  .
                  while the exit is only through the front line - call sign and frequency on any baofeng - Volga, frequency 149.200
        3. Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira
          Sebastian Aristarkhovich Pereira 6 September 2023 13: 22
          +1
          You read and understand that our whole history was a continuous series of mistakes! Would they sit now in the Moscow principality and be glad that they are alive ?! Right ?!
          All actions of the Russian state are now condemned, rewritten, denigrated ... whether it’s the Poles in Moscow, the crusaders in the East, Napoleon in Russia, the Spaniards in America and it would be nice to ask the Indians of North America how it is, whether they approve of their extermination by the ancestors of the current population USA !
          To understand that there is no dear Ukrainian neighbor on the horizon since the collapse of the USSR, is not able to?!
          Realize that the "non-brothers" were ready to sell the United States whatever they want in order to shove Russia into that same "principality" - can't you?!
          It is this attitude to our history and today that has led us to the fact that today we are forced to prove with weapons our right to live where we live and live as we see fit, and not as our western uncle orders.
        4. from_Czechoslovakia
          from_Czechoslovakia 6 September 2023 22: 37
          0
          Russia's goal should not be to strengthen only its own territory. Russia must continue to expand the Russian Empire for the sake of all Slavs. The glorious history of Russia obliges her to this. Here in the Czech Republic, we are looking forward to becoming part of the great Slavic empire (although we are still few).
          1. Alexander Emrys
            Alexander Emrys 6 September 2023 23: 46
            +1
            Quote: from_Czechoslovakia
            Russia's goal should not be to strengthen only its own territory. Russia must continue to expand the Russian Empire for the sake of all Slavs. The glorious history of Russia obliges her to this. Here in the Czech Republic, we are looking forward to becoming part of the great Slavic empire (although we are still few).


            Excuse me, why do you need Russia? Why should the Russians once again build a Slavic multinational that will betray us, as it was in the velvet revolutions?
            History obliges Russia not to repeat the old mistakes and not to turn its back on the "brothers" - the Slavs - the knife is stuck in for sure. Russia should be a Russian empire, not a Slavic one. And think only about the Russians. If you want to be with Russia, become Russian and move to Russia. And nothing else.
            1. from_Czechoslovakia
              from_Czechoslovakia 7 September 2023 00: 53
              0
              Why is 404 yes, but Czechoslovakia no? The idea of ​​a great Russia is also not very popular in the new Russian territories.

              It cannot be said that the Czechs and Slovaks “betrayed” Russia or the USSR. Support for the USSR was never high enough; my fellow citizens for the most part perceived the Soviet people not as liberators, but as occupiers. Unfortunately. But the wrong Soviet policy is primarily to blame for this.

              If you don't want a big empire, why didn't you submit to the US in 1991, like the Germans did in 1945? It only took the Germans 30 years to become a very rich country where a worker can buy a new Mercedes with half a year's salary.
              This is what I admire about Russians: they know that they will not take their wealth to the grave, and the glory of Russia will live on even after their death.
              1. Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov
                Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov 7 September 2023 08: 32
                0
                It cannot be said that the Czechs and Slovaks “betrayed” Russia or the USSR. Support for the USSR was never high enough; my fellow citizens for the most part perceived the Soviet people not as liberators, but as occupiers. Unfortunately. But the wrong Soviet policy is primarily to blame for this.

                Of course - in WWI they fought against Russia, then they stole tsarist gold, in WWII they licked Hitler's ass - and the "wrong Soviet policy" is to blame for everything.
                The same "brothers" only in profile.
              2. Alexander Emrys
                Alexander Emrys 7 September 2023 08: 38
                +3
                Quote: from_Czechoslovakia
                Why is 404 yes, but Czechoslovakia no? The idea of ​​a great Russia is also not very popular in the new Russian territories.

                It cannot be said that the Czechs and Slovaks “betrayed” Russia or the USSR. Support for the USSR was never high enough; my fellow citizens for the most part perceived the Soviet people not as liberators, but as occupiers. Unfortunately. But the wrong Soviet policy is primarily to blame for this.

                If you don't want a big empire, why didn't you submit to the US in 1991, like the Germans did in 1945? It only took the Germans 30 years to become a very rich country where a worker can buy a new Mercedes with half a year's salary.
                This is what I admire about Russians: they know that they will not take their wealth to the grave, and the glory of Russia will live on even after their death.


                404 is also unnecessary for us, to be honest. Our authorities made a mistake - we should have taken all Russians out of 404 and pushed through the European Union the idea of ​​​​populating blacks and Arabs on its depopulated lands as a condition for its acceptance into Western structures. Bandera themselves would have died out from such a turn.

                The glory of Russia should not lie in useless conquests of land - we have a lot of them - but in scientific achievements, cultural development, economic growth and military strength. Then all brothers and non-brothers will themselves bow to the Russian flag.
                1. from_Czechoslovakia
                  from_Czechoslovakia 7 September 2023 12: 22
                  0
                  Quote: Alexander Emrys

                  The glory of Russia should not lie in useless conquests of land - we have a lot of them - but in scientific achievements, cultural development, economic growth and military strength. Then all brothers and non-brothers will themselves bow to the Russian flag.

                  And why isn't this happening? If we compare Russia in 1991 and Germany in 1945, then Germany was shot, and Russia has huge reserves of natural resources.
                  1. Alexander Emrys
                    Alexander Emrys 7 September 2023 15: 45
                    0
                    Quote: from_Czechoslovakia
                    Quote: Alexander Emrys

                    The glory of Russia should not lie in useless conquests of land - we have a lot of them - but in scientific achievements, cultural development, economic growth and military strength. Then all brothers and non-brothers will themselves bow to the Russian flag.

                    And why isn't this happening? If we compare Russia in 1991 and Germany in 1945, then Germany was shot, and Russia has huge reserves of natural resources.


                    We did not have our own Adenauer, instead we had to be content with Yeltsin. Hence this, not the most successful result to date.
                    but we must strive to correct this, and not get into unnecessary and harmful adventures for us.
    2. Akim
      Akim 6 September 2023 10: 31
      +2
      Quote: U. Cheny
      Over the past decades, we have only been “responding to challenges,” that is, we are simply trying to reduce the damage from the actions of our enemies

      when was it different? and the USSR all the way only "answered the challenges." Remember the same Caribbean crisis, which began not because of Nikita the tyrant, as some people think, but because of the deployment of missiles by the United States in Turkey. For some reason, everyone remembers about missiles in Cuba, but not about missiles in Turkey.
      1. Scientist
        Scientist 6 September 2023 14: 18
        +2
        Only as a result, not only we from Cuba, but also the United States removed the missiles from Turkey. Because our answer was adequate. And it became possible because Fidel was supported in time.
        By the way, Cuba was a very good irritant for the States and they always looked back at this crisis when dealing with the Union.
        1. Akim
          Akim 6 September 2023 14: 55
          +1
          That’s right, but again this was a “response to a challenge,” and on the verge of a foul and nuclear war. Then it went through “to everyone’s satisfaction,” thank God..
        2. dump22
          dump22 6 September 2023 19: 15
          -1
          but the States also removed the missiles from Turkey.


          States deftly divorced us then.
          Jupiter missiles were removed from Turkey because they were outdated (the oxidizer was liquid oxygen) and they were completely removed from service in 1963. And instead of liquid Jupiters, solid-fuel Polaris began to be used.
        3. Yaroslav Tekkel
          Yaroslav Tekkel 7 September 2023 20: 33
          0
          By the way, this is a colossal failure of US diplomacy. At first, Fidel did not want any confrontation with the United States and was generally a fairly moderate socialist, not a red fanatic. But the Americans behaved from the position of an arrogant gentleman. Well, they got hemorrhoids at hand for the next decades.
    3. dump22
      dump22 6 September 2023 17: 14
      +1
      create your own agenda.


      We ourselves have formed the world agenda for the last year and a half!
  7. Vladimir_2U
    Vladimir_2U 6 September 2023 06: 06
    -7
    Well, they did curtseys. Has our diplomacy told anyone that in the event of a war with NATO, all NATO members become a target for Russian nuclear weapons? No, not to anyone. Otherwise, now they would not have burned the Korans, but the buildings of the Riksdag, or something else ...
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 6 September 2023 07: 44
      +3
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      Well, they did curtseys. Has our diplomacy told anyone that in the event of a war with NATO, all NATO members become a target for Russian nuclear weapons? No, not to anyone. Otherwise, now they would not have burned the Korans, but the buildings of the Riksdag, or something else ...

      She brought it up and how. One of the important reasons why they joined NATO. Nuclear blackmail has only one way out, to ally with nuclear countries
      1. Vladimir_2U
        Vladimir_2U 6 September 2023 09: 16
        0
        Quote: BlackMokona
        She brought it up and how. One of the important reasons why they joined NATO. Nuclear blackmail has only one way out, to ally with nuclear countries

        You don't need to tryndet. The non-aligned movement is precisely based on the withdrawal of the threat of the use of nuclear weapons, because nuclear weapons will not be used against a non-nuclear country, use logic.
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 6 September 2023 10: 32
          +5
          You don't need to tryndet. The non-aligned movement is precisely based on the withdrawal of the threat of the use of nuclear weapons, because nuclear weapons will not be used against a non-nuclear country, use logic.

          Was Japan nuclear when nuclear bombs arrived?

          Plus, remember that even deputies are now proposing to use cores in Ukraine. That is, screams are already heard. But Ukraine is not a nuclear country at all.
          1. Vladimir_2U
            Vladimir_2U 6 September 2023 11: 17
            -2
            Quote: BlackMokona
            Was Japan nuclear when nuclear bombs arrived?

            What nonsense to remember the Second World War in relation to the present time. When there was no NATO, no one knew anything about nuclear weapons, and the war went on with equal strength. Without even remembering that nuclear weapons were used by the United States, and used for testing purposes ... And guaranteed unanswered. But on the other hand, the threat of the use of chemical weapons by the allies against Germany, in the event of a chemical attack on the USSR, kept the Nazis from this step.

            Quote: BlackMokona
            Plus, remember that even deputies are now proposing to use cores in Ukraine. That is, screams are already heard. But Ukraine is not a nuclear country at all.
            Even greater stupidity is to imagine INDIVIDUAL deputies of the body, which many call the state fool, expressing the point of view of the military and political leadership.
            And the threat of the use of nuclear weapons against non-nuclear NATO countries of the USSR and all sorts of Finns held back and led to serious anti-war protests in all sorts of Italy and even England.
            In short, do not tryndet if you do not own the topic.
          2. Nastia makarova
            Nastia makarova 6 September 2023 12: 20
            -7
            Ukraine as a country no longer exists!!!!!!!!!!
        2. dump22
          dump22 6 September 2023 17: 20
          +5
          because nuclear weapons will not be applied to a non-nuclear country, use logic.


          Who uses logic here?
          The proposal to use tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine (and this is, after all, a non-nuclear country, and even not included in any military bloc, like Finland, for example!) We are constantly voiced.
          At the level of deputy chairman of the Security Council:
          https://www.rbc.ru/politics/30/07/2023/64c60bdf9a794798132f2d78
          Medvedev warned of the threat of the use of nuclear weapons if the Armed Forces of Ukraine succeed

          ...Moscow would have to use nuclear weapons, Security Council deputy chairman Dmitry Medvedev warned.
  8. HaByxoDaBHocep
    HaByxoDaBHocep 6 September 2023 06: 27
    +1
    And what prevents our central channels from making a big report after Sweden’s accession to NATO from some control center of our nuclear weapons, they say, in connection with the accession of Sweden and Finland to NATO, the warheads in ballistic missiles were retargeted and demonstratively show the entry of the coordinates of Helsinki and Stockholm into the brains of the missiles, I think the population of these cities will be very happy
    1. Escariot
      Escariot 6 September 2023 07: 12
      +9
      Quote: HaByxoDaBHocep
      And what prevents our central channels from making a big report after Sweden’s accession to NATO from some control center of our nuclear weapons, they say, in connection with the accession of Sweden and Finland to NATO, the warheads in ballistic missiles were retargeted and demonstratively show the entry of the coordinates of Helsinki and Stockholm into the brains of the missiles, I think the population of these cities will be very happy

      Will definitely do it. That's just besides an erection for a patriotic public in the Russian Federation, this will not work.
      1. Blackmokona
        Blackmokona 6 September 2023 07: 45
        +4
        Quote from Escariot
        Will definitely do it. That's just besides an erection for a patriotic public in the Russian Federation, this will not work.

        It will also give a huge boost to support for the military-industrial complex and support for Ukraine in these countries among the population
      2. Shtrek
        Shtrek 6 September 2023 08: 52
        +5
        And what prevents our central channels from making a big report after Sweden’s accession to NATO from some control center of our nuclear weapons, they say, in connection with the accession of Sweden and Finland to NATO, the warheads in ballistic missiles were retargeted and demonstratively show the entry of the coordinates of Helsinki and Stockholm into the brains of the missiles, I think the population of these cities will be very happy

        Will definitely do it. That's just besides an erection for a patriotic public in the Russian Federation, this will not work.


        It is unlikely that the population of these countries watch Russian TV channels. And yes, in almost every program Solovyov and Skabeeva decide on which country to drop a hydrogen bomb....But propaganda apparently works only for the Russian audience..
        1. linux28
          linux28 6 September 2023 17: 02
          0
          Quote: Streck
          .But propaganda apparently works only for the Russian audience ..


          Strictly speaking, this is propaganda, not propaganda.
    2. SVD68
      SVD68 6 September 2023 07: 25
      -1
      Nobody will believe. It is clearly more profitable to neutralize Finland and Sweden with Iskanders or Daggers with special warheads.
      1. Escariot
        Escariot 6 September 2023 08: 18
        +10
        Quote: SVD68
        Nobody will believe. It is clearly more profitable to neutralize Finland and Sweden with Iskanders or Daggers with special warheads.

        Then Moscow and St. Petersburg can be neutralized with missiles with special warheads.
        1. SVD68
          SVD68 6 September 2023 16: 15
          -3
          Quote from Escariot
          Then Moscow and St. Petersburg can be neutralized with missiles with special warheads.

          They can. But they piss.
          1. Escariot
            Escariot 6 September 2023 18: 40
            +3
            Quote: SVD68
            Quote from Escariot
            Then Moscow and St. Petersburg can be neutralized with missiles with special warheads.

            They can. But they piss.

            Naturally piss. And who doesn't piss? That is why nuclear weapons are not used.
      2. tlauicol
        tlauicol 6 September 2023 08: 28
        +2
        Quote: SVD68
        Nobody will believe. It is clearly more profitable to neutralize Finland and Sweden with Iskanders or Daggers with special warheads.

        It is clearly more profitable to do the opposite - to blow up nuclear weapons over St. Petersburg, so as not to suffer, and let the Finns die from radiation. Otherwise, quickly kill the Finns and Balts, and then bend over in agony, coughing up blood - not comme il faut
    3. realing
      realing 6 September 2023 13: 38
      +4
      It is because of such proposals that Russia was left with almost no allies and could lose the latter. China, which everyone looks at like that, has repeatedly stated that it will not tolerate the use of nuclear weapons, even tactical ones.
      1. Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov
        Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov 7 September 2023 08: 38
        -3
        China, which everyone looks at like that, has repeatedly stated that it will not tolerate the use of nuclear weapons, even tactical ones.

        Won't tolerate what???
        So far, China has not enough charges, when they accumulate it, they will say differently.
    4. Victor Leningradets
      Victor Leningradets 7 September 2023 07: 19
      +2
      Agitation (a kind of red lines) no longer affects anyone.
      Well, and most importantly - they used nuclear weapons - and then what? The enemy army is not defeated (on the contrary, the population is motivated to take revenge on the aggressor), the industrial potential (remains in Europe, the USA, Canada, India, Japan, South Korea) is not affected. Logistics (shipping) - provided by the US Navy and its allies. So the use of nuclear weapons should:
      1. Paralyze the will of the leader (KNSh of the US Armed Forces)
      2. Ensure the defeat of the selected enemy with a complete cleansing of the territory and the establishment of a hard occupation
      3. Prevention of a land, sea, air and space blockade of Russia by the threat of incomparable damage to potential participants in such a blockade.
      Russia does not have enough strength for all this, but if nothing is done, then a broad coalition, with or without pretext, will solve the problem of denuclearization and demilitarization of Russia, with its subsequent liquidation and division of territory between the beneficiaries.
  9. Galleon
    Galleon 6 September 2023 07: 12
    +3
    It is much easier to break Lithuania in a day or two and make a normal trip to Kaliningrad.

    It seems that those who could perform such an operation no longer serve in the army. Either in civilian life or in a PMC. There are those chiefs who can stand near Avdeevka for a year and a half.
    1. ave0123
      ave0123 6 September 2023 07: 28
      +1
      the wailing of some about the "untimely" entry of Sweden and Finland into NATO because of "aggressive Russia" is bullshit.

      So we need these Chukhons and their poor lands. To keep yours. And they are well aware of this. Looking for - who benefits? And this is beneficial for the local military-industrial complex, which is not averse to capitalizing on this hysteria, and joining NATO is a reason not only to re-equip its armies, but also to sell its weapons to other countries. And that is why their weapons appear in Ukraine: running in and advertising. Otherwise, who will buy who knows what?

      In the case of Finland, this is a typical example of how they considered that the benefits from the sale of their weapons on the NATO market outweigh the advantages of relations with Russia. So "nothing personal": only business!
      1. Escariot
        Escariot 6 September 2023 08: 26
        +5
        Quote from: ave0123
        the wailing of some about the "untimely" entry of Sweden and Finland into NATO because of "aggressive Russia" is bullshit.

        That’s why we need these Chukhons and their poor lands. To keep yours. And they are well aware of this.

        Well, this is understandable, but it is not clear where these “to keep yours” end. Back in 2002, the border of Russia was clearly defined and it was clear that it was necessary to “keep ours,” but in 2014 this “ours” expanded somewhat to the chagrin of its neighbors. Last year, “our own” increased even more. Who knows what the boundaries of “our own” will be tomorrow.
  10. kenpachi
    kenpachi 6 September 2023 07: 30
    0
    Quote: HaByxoDaBHocep
    entering the coordinates of Helsinki and Stockholm into the brains of rockets

    Characteristically, the most turbocharged turbo patriots know the least about military equipment. No coordinates are entered into the rocket. There is a flight mission. How and where it is written is a strict secret. But in general, there is something like a black box from an airplane.
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 6 September 2023 07: 46
      +4
      Quote from kenpachi
      Quote: HaByxoDaBHocep
      entering the coordinates of Helsinki and Stockholm into the brains of rockets

      Characteristically, the most turbocharged turbo patriots know the least about military equipment. No coordinates are entered into the rocket. There is a flight mission. How and where it is written is a strict secret. But in general, there is something like a black box from an airplane.

      And the USA also has more cities than we have bombs. Therefore, every Swedish city for the purpose is minus one destroyed US city
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 6 September 2023 11: 56
        -1
        Quote: BlackMokona
        And the USA also has more cities than we have bombs. Therefore, every Swedish city for the purpose is minus one destroyed US city

        There is a way out - RSD.
        An IRBM with a range of 1500 km solves the problem of the misuse of ICBMs on Sweden, Norway .. and on the countries of the Eastern European cordon sanitaire too.
        1. Negro
          Negro 6 September 2023 21: 58
          +7
          Quote: Alexey RA
          An IRBM with a range of 1500 km solves the problem of the misuse of ICBMs on Sweden, Norway .. and on the countries of the Eastern European cordon sanitaire too.

          An arms race with NATO? Great plan, reliable as a Swiss watch.

          I will support.
      2. alexoff
        alexoff 6 September 2023 13: 14
        +1
        The Americans say so directly - an increase in the depth of defense. And the Swedes are probably happy
      3. Victor Leningradets
        Victor Leningradets 7 September 2023 07: 24
        +1
        Once again - nuclear weapons are weapons against strategic targets, and not for terror against the population. Destroy what poses a threat - and forward. And to beat cities - this can also be done with conventional weapons, if there is nowhere to go - this is the Anglo-Saxon technique.
  11. ave0123
    ave0123 6 September 2023 07: 38
    +2
    Quote from kenpachi
    Quote: HaByxoDaBHocep
    entering the coordinates of Helsinki and Stockholm into the brains of rockets

    Characteristically, the most turbocharged turbo patriots know the least about military equipment. No coordinates are entered into the rocket. There is a flight mission. How and where it is written is a strict secret. But in general, there is something like a black box from an airplane.


    you write nonsense. It is known without any “top secret” that the rocket has its own on-board computer into which the flight mission is loaded. It is well known what the on-board digital computer consists of.

    Even the order of combat units and decoys after disengagement is not a “military secret”, because carried out randomly))))
  12. Vadim S
    Vadim S 6 September 2023 07: 53
    -1
    I don’t understand why there is any regret there? Everyone who does not speak Russian in Europe is our enemy or will become one at the right time! They have hated and feared Russia for centuries; only naive pacifists see everyone as friends and allies. It’s useless to wait and hope for something, they only need our resources, they don’t need us!
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 6 September 2023 08: 11
      +7
      Quote: Vadim S
      I don’t understand why there is any regret there? Everyone who does not speak Russian in Europe is our enemy or will become one at the right time! They have hated and feared Russia for centuries; only naive pacifists see everyone as friends and allies. It’s useless to wait and hope for something, they only need our resources, they don’t need us!

      Throughout its history, Russia has successfully assembled military coalitions in Europe, finding allies for itself. British money actively financed our troops against Napoleon, while the Spaniards partisaned against his troops, and in Leipzig a simply gorgeous coalition of countries participated. Here are Prussia, Sweden, Austria. We stood shoulder to shoulder with our soldiers, and without their armies it would not have been possible to completely defeat Napoleon. During the First World War there was the Entente, in the Second World War the Anti-Hitler Coalition, in the Cold War the ATS. Therefore, you simply cover up the complete failure of our diplomacy, which paints the whole of Europe with an enemy color with its inept actions.
    2. solar
      solar 7 September 2023 00: 18
      +2
      All who do not speak Russian in Europe are our enemies or will become them at a convenient opportunity!

      At least half of those who fight in the Ukrainian army speak Russian. :(
    3. Mustached Kok
      Mustached Kok 7 September 2023 00: 41
      +2
      You, Vadim, replace "... does not speak Russian" with "... does not speak German." And also replace "... they were afraid of Russia, ..." with "... they were afraid of Germany, ...". Then, with these two edits, re-read your own text and tell me, what ideas are you promoting?
      1. Dali
        Dali 12 September 2023 14: 34
        0
        Quote: Mustachioed Kok
        You, Vadim, replace "... does not speak Russian" with "... does not speak German." And also replace "... they were afraid of Russia, ..." with "... they were afraid of Germany, ...". Then, with these two edits, re-read your own text and tell me, what ideas are you promoting?

        The allusion to Nazi Germany is of course understandable, but it is not at all appropriate (as the word goes, not at all!!!).
        By the way, I can’t possibly guess why... I’ll give you a hint... but because Vadim specifically described history, as they say, from the beginning of time (at least Russia). And no Germany stands even close in this matter. As long as the history of Russia lasts, so many will covet Russia, so many will want to destroy it!!!
        Cook, have you even studied history even a little?!
  13. carpenter
    carpenter 6 September 2023 08: 11
    -2
    But we’ll talk about what could happen in the Baltic next time.
    Once again we will have to “cut a window to Europe,” as under Peter the Great.
    1. Shtrek
      Shtrek 6 September 2023 12: 41
      +4

      carpenter

      Again you have to - "cut a window to Europe", as under Peter the Great


      Obviously this is inevitable. Russia will have to establish foreign policy relations and mutually beneficial trade and economic ties with “unfriendly” Western countries, but this will already be visible in the “post-Putin” time.....
  14. kenpachi
    kenpachi 6 September 2023 08: 37
    +1
    Quote from: ave0123
    It is well known what the on-board digital computer consists of.

    Yes? Well, what kind of processor is there? How many are there? What is the flight mission written on?
    I don’t think that you will voice it now, although everything is “well known”.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 6 September 2023 12: 05
      +2
      You will also ask about the 106th series and ferrites. wink
  15. APASUS
    APASUS 6 September 2023 09: 36
    0
    the start of Russia's operation in Ukraine, which also dreamed of NATO, finally convinced most Swedes (as well as neighboring Finns) that they needed the additional protection provided by the alliance.

    In the morning, the Finns woke up and found themselves in NATO (roughly speaking) Nobody asked the Finns, there is a lot of material on the Internet. For this reason, they gave Sanna Marin a ride in the elections, by the way. But she fulfilled her role, the empty-headed, thirty-year-old girl signed all the documents on behalf of the country. And the North Military District had nothing to do with it, she was specially prepared for this step
    1. Someone_Kakoevich
      Someone_Kakoevich 6 September 2023 22: 45
      +8
      Just like a bunch of Russians woke up in the morning and found themselves in the Northern Military District. And a little earlier we woke up with Crimea as part of Russia. And no one asked ordinary people anything. You can see better at the top!
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 7 September 2023 08: 22
        -2
        Quote: Nekto_Kakoevich
        Just like a bunch of Russians woke up in the morning and ended up in the NWO.

        Pity the Nazis. And why didn’t you get so indignant on May 2 in Odessa?
        Quote: Nekto_Kakoevich
        And a little earlier we woke up with Crimea as part of Russia.

        Russian land that has nothing to do with Ukraine in general and was sold for one by the apocalypse Yeltsin. What is wrong here
  16. Reader 47
    Reader 47 6 September 2023 09: 45
    +1
    The Baltic Fleet is just a target. The moment has come to decide on the expediency of its existence. These ships should be withdrawn as long as possible to other fleets, where it will bring real benefits and will not be locked up and shot in the event of serious events.
  17. spirit
    spirit 6 September 2023 11: 04
    +1
    And only a general who has not passed this very Veksler test can poke his head in there.

    Oh, we have a lot of such Lampas. The author can have no doubt. The better it is shot through, the better the fighting spirit. I think the conditional "Muradov" would be happy to lead this operation hi
  18. Yuras_Belarus
    Yuras_Belarus 6 September 2023 11: 29
    -4
    The article is false propaganda. Not Russia, but the United States shoved Sweden and Finland into NATO. The hype about "aggressive" Russia was used as a propaganda scarecrow. If the author did not notice (or did not want to notice), the causes of the NWO were loudly silenced throughout the West - the genocide of the Kyiv putschists against the population of part of their own country. And Sweden and Finland in NATO are only needed to spend their money, technology and people in a proxy war in Ukraine, and at the same time to lure minds, production and technology overseas. The US continues to rob everyone in a row - both enemies and allies. They cannot do otherwise, because otherwise their economy will not withstand global competition.
    1. dump22
      dump22 6 September 2023 17: 33
      +4
      throughout the West, the causes of the NWO were loudly silenced - the genocide of the Kyiv putschists against the population of part of their own country.


      On the contrary, they were voiced quite loudly - but only together with statistics to show their "slight illogicality" and "some disproportion".

      In 2021, as a result of the genocide of the Kyiv regime for the whole year, 77 people died in the Donbass (DPR data).
      And how many THOUSAND people have died since the start of the NWO?
      So it turns out that a hand was cut off to treat a sick finger.

      https://regnum.ru/news/3467017
      In the DPR revealed the number of dead and wounded in 2021

      Over the past 2021, as a result of the actions of Ukrainian terrorists in the Donbass, 77 people died, 129 were injured and wounded, the press service of the office of the Commissioner for Human Rights of the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) reports on December 30.
      1. Escariot
        Escariot 6 September 2023 18: 43
        0
        Quote from: dump22
        throughout the West, the causes of the NWO were loudly silenced - the genocide of the Kyiv putschists against the population of part of their own country.


        On the contrary, they were voiced quite loudly - but only together with statistics to show their "slight illogicality" and "some disproportion".

        In 2021, as a result of the genocide of the Kyiv regime for the whole year, 77 people died in the Donbass (DPR data).
        And how many THOUSAND people have died since the start of the NWO?
        So it turns out that a hand was cut off to treat a sick finger.

        https://regnum.ru/news/3467017
        In the DPR revealed the number of dead and wounded in 2021

        Over the past 2021, as a result of the actions of Ukrainian terrorists in the Donbass, 77 people died, 129 were injured and wounded, the press service of the office of the Commissioner for Human Rights of the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) reports on December 30.

        And there it seems like most of the incidents are associated with careless handling of unexploded ordnance.
    2. Yaroslav Tekkel
      Yaroslav Tekkel 7 September 2023 20: 47
      0
      Genocide is not a swear word, but still quite a definite term.
      In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group". The five acts were: killing members of the group, inflicting serious physical or mental harm on them, imposing living conditions aimed at destroying the group, preventing birth, and forcibly removing children from the group. Victims become victims because of their real or perceived group affiliation, not by accident.
    3. realing
      realing 8 September 2023 08: 44
      0
      The Finns are fools, nothing threatens them, because Russia is just collecting the original Russian lands that belonged to it. And Finland, as you know, has never been part of Russia...
  19. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 6 September 2023 11: 51
    0
    Sweden's accession to NATO is clearly the merit of the Russian Foreign Ministry and the Russian media, which together carried out (according to the Swedish media) a policy of non-alignment with NATO through open intimidation, including by nuclear forces. Well, the beginning of the NWO did not really push, but gave a kick to the Swedes towards NATO.

    Oh, and before that, the Swedes were white and fluffy neutrals. smile
    With its accession to NATO, Sweden only legally formalized its actual membership in the alliance, for which it has worked since the creation of the bloc. For example, in the 50s, Sweden actively cooperated with the intelligence agencies of the United States and Britain in supporting the forest brothers in the Baltics.
    1. alexoff
      alexoff 6 September 2023 13: 17
      0
      For some reason, it is not customary to recall the so-called neutral countries during the years of the Cold War. Although Israel and Japan are not in NATO, they are no less neutral.
      1. pettabyte
        pettabyte 6 September 2023 13: 56
        0
        There, the level of neutrality "it is necessary to understand something else" (they forgot to stick the NATO flag only).
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 6 September 2023 14: 57
        0
        Quote from alexoff
        Although Israel and Japan are not in NATO, they are no less neutral.

        Japan is generally the quintessence this is a friend. A country that is prohibited from having armed forces has, in fact, turned into an unsinkable US aircraft carrier in the Pacific region with a powerful army, air force and navy, bashfully called the “Self-Defense Forces”. Although their transformation into full-fledged armed forces will only come down to replacing the abbreviations JGSDF and JMSDF with IJA and IJN. smile
        1. solar
          solar 7 September 2023 00: 21
          0
          A country prohibited from having a military...

          This is a common misconception. Nobody is prohibited.
    2. Someone_Kakoevich
      Someone_Kakoevich 6 September 2023 22: 56
      +1
      Well, good already about neutrals. That's politics. Remember, probably, how unknown little green men in the Crimea, after some time turned out to be our polite people. It's just that politicians don't say everything, or not right away, or never. For the benefit of his people...
      Well, ideally it should be.
  20. Wildcat
    Wildcat 6 September 2023 12: 20
    +1
    Sweden's accession to NATO is clearly the merit of the Russian Foreign Ministry and the Russian media, which together carried out (according to the Swedish media) a policy of non-alignment with NATO through open intimidation, including by nuclear forces. Well, the beginning of the NWO did not really push, but gave a kick to the Swedes towards NATO.


    Hmm, yes ... okay with them, with the Swedes.
    It is much more interesting whether the Foreign Ministry is responsible for what is happening with gasoline in the country: "... On September 6, General Director of KNP JSC Boris Zolotarev made a refutation. He stated that he visited several gas stations. There is no shortage of fuel anywhere, he said.
    Although a day earlier, Krasnoyarsknefteprodukt predicted an acute shortage. But a day later, everything was fine. According to Zolotarev, fuel supplies to filling stations are on time and in sufficient volume. There are problems at other gas stations. Krasnoyarsk residents wrote that there was not enough fuel at Gazprom Neft gas stations.
    People say that it happens that there is no gasoline of the most popular brands - these are AI-92 and AI-95.
    Fuel in our region is the most expensive in Siberia. Analysts of the RIA Rating portal shared such data back in early August. And since then, the cost of gasoline and diesel has only gone up.
    Now the price tag for the AI-92 is kept at around 48 to 53 rubles, and for the AI-95 from 54 to 60 rubles.
    The cost of fuel outraged not only the townspeople. The prosecutor's office and OFAS said they would check. Its goal is to check the region's largest gas stations for price collusion. The results have not yet been reported.
    "https://www.krsk.kp.ru/daily/27552/4819373/
  21. Knell wardenheart
    Knell wardenheart 6 September 2023 12: 30
    +2
    Did our diplomacy have a chance to torpedo accession or reduce the concerns of the Swedish side? Don't think.
    Our influence on the Scandi region was generally insignificant at the best of times, but the Swedes in particular have arranged things in such a way that we need trade with them more than they do. We did not have any strong initial diplomacy. positions, no significant trade support, no traditions of good neighborliness. We have never respected Sweden, Sweden has never had any sympathy or reverence for us.
    The “scare a good deal” option would also work poorly - our nuclear doctrine somehow hints to our neighbors that we will not be the first to use it against non-nuclear states, so the Swedes could quite calmly look at the stuffing of KOs with “horror”, understanding what is on the list takeaway, in which case they would be somewhere behind the 10th position in the worst case. That is, these traditional unhurried movements of “horror” would not have worked in this case.

    Actually, Sweden during the XNUMXs was “conditionally neutral” not so much out of fear of the USSR, but because it was BENEFITABLE for it. The union + flabby allied meat in this case could do business with her much more willingly, and the affectionate calf, as you know, sucks two queens. Which is what the Swedes, in general, did, although it was always clear on whose side their sympathies and main benefit were. But logic with two or more baskets is quite popular there, and they managed to exploit this scheme without covering up the shop.

    Now Sweden's transition to NATO clearly indicates that SWEDEN NO MORE BENEFITS FROM GOOD RELATIONS WITH RUSSIA. That is, in other words, the amount of homeopathic benefits from the final formal turn towards NATO is much higher than the “second basket”, which was crushed to the utmost.

    At the moment, we cannot REALLY influence this, except perhaps by some sophisticated influence on Hungary-Turkey through direct political bargaining or inspiring anti-Swedish sentiments (in Turkey). This, in addition to the fact that it is a slippery slope, may cost us losses and, most importantly, there are no guarantees that it will last long.

    Until the moment when our economic, industrial and technological power will be many times greater than it is now - probably in such a way that we will have to come to terms with this state of affairs.
    After (and if) we will have leverage, but it will be very delicate leverage, at the moment it is beyond naive to believe that we are capable of this and even look so far ahead.
    1. pettabyte
      pettabyte 6 September 2023 13: 54
      +1
      For some reason they all squeal about their concern.
      But the concern of the Russian Federation is generally considered to be something insignificant.
      Maybe just do what the Russian Federation needs and let them squeal further?
      1. Knell wardenheart
        Knell wardenheart 6 September 2023 14: 33
        +2
        We traditionally attach excessive importance to rhetoric, extrapolating our own defective habits to the rest of the world. In the same place, rhetoric (in this case in particular) is nothing more than a background under which you can do what you want with minimal domestic political costs.

        It is quite clear that the Russian Federation has no claims on the Scandinavian territory, and even more so on the territory of Sweden. Moreover, our activity in the Baltic now, I would say homeopathic, some of our regional projects also do not threaten either the Swedish economy or sovereignty. The presence of troops and weapons in the region also did not arise yesterday, and therefore all this rhetoric of the Swedes about "concern" is nothing more than spanking with a mitten in vain.
        At some point, for their politicians, the issue of benefits from their "multi-basket" system, which implies "formal neutrality", ceased to be relevant - apparently the benefits from one basket potentially outweigh the second, and maybe all the others. But since they have something more or less approaching democracy there, and the population is unlike more educated and politically more savvy and less tolerant than ours, they need to shove this case (in fact, not increasing, but reducing the real security of Sweden in in the event of a major conflict) under the sauce of demagoguery and bogey. In a volume and quality sufficient to paralyze the protest and negative attitude of a more knowledgeable minority - a more amorphous and omnivorous minority. The fact that the Swedes, unlike us, are more savvy in domestic politics and honor democratic procedures does not mean that they are better versed in foreign policy, in fact, given the long tradition of their neutrality, I believe that they are "omnivorous" here, and therefore convince their population that that the security of the state will increase from entry, or that security is under threat - in general, not such a difficult political technology task.

        Here, I repeat, no one really cares about the question of some kind of real security. The last time a real danger to Sweden came from us in the 19th century, if I'm not mistaken. Since then, a lot has changed in the config, which is much more beneficial to Sweden itself, so I would say there should be completely different moods there logically. So "real politics" in this case is solely a matter of benefits within the so-called "Western model" for this state, and the fact that the United States somewhat forced similar events with Finland and Sweden is a demonstration of the ability and consolidation, like us, and their own "flabby giblets", which not so long ago gurgled about the EU army or "NATO's brain death".

        In short - one benefit, the other pathos. To real security, all this has och. distant attitude, although, of course, there is little that is pleasant here, and I agree with the author on this.

        As for our concern - who cares about it? Our alter model ceased to exist in 1991, we could not stir up something even on the wreckage, we brought the whole economy as a whole to the handle and a complete mess, with orange, velvet and other revolutions.
        They don’t see strength in us there, in foreign countries, but when we say “strength”, we mean peasants in kirzachs, tanks and #NUCLEAR WEAPONS - and there, they mean by strength the economy, industrial power, order in domestic politics and the growth of prosperity and stability. It is precisely the possibility of selling some Sweden with its goods on neutral markets that would scare them the most, because it would overwhelm their well-fed and calm life. But here we cannot scare them and they understand it.
        And then - why should they observe any decency? They operate in their area of ​​responsibility, and we, although unpleasant, have nothing to answer.

        So it goes)
  22. Maks1995
    Maks1995 6 September 2023 13: 38
    +2
    The Swedish Armed Forces are well described.
    But the rest is clearly HPP. It was clear that this would be the case. And Lavrov and his colleagues showed obvious impotence. One can recall the endless "concerns", but one does not recall at least some intelligible negotiations with Sweden about this ..
    1. Knell wardenheart
      Knell wardenheart 6 September 2023 14: 43
      +1
      It is necessary to clearly distinguish between CIS diplomacy, in which it is traditionally pompous to run into and talk for a long time, at length, and then hotly crush the crab, followed by the empty pathos of loud statements, and real diplomacy, which is of practical benefit with those states where trade "does not export" .
      In 2020, the trade turnover between the Russian Federation and Sweden was 3 billion dollars, a year earlier it was 4.5 billion dollars.
      For comparison, in 2020 with the United States, Russia had $ 24 billion.
      Overall volume imports from Sweden in 2020 was about 260 billion dollars - that is, the volume of trade with the Russian Federation there is negligible, firstly, and secondly, it makes up an insignificant share (~ 1.3%) of Sweden's trade turnover (and imports are even less).

      In such conditions, we stupidly do not have leverage, and we never had any. I also note that we have a culture that is generally alien to Scandinavians because of a different faith, political traditions, other values, everyday philosophy, economic and educational level of the population and politicians.
      1. Maks1995
        Maks1995 6 September 2023 15: 54
        +5
        We have with all such trade from small to miserable.
        And diplomacy is failing everywhere, even where relations were once good.
        Alas, Lavrov is by no means famous for his diplomatic victories ...
  23. Luenkov
    Luenkov 6 September 2023 13: 40
    -2
    She pushed the Swedes ... no, the NWO kicked! But is this NWO not the result of NATO's actions? And how long will we give reason to think that we will not use nuclear weapons, even if part of the territory of Russia is blocked? I'm talking about Kaliningrad.
  24. pettabyte
    pettabyte 6 September 2023 13: 52
    -1
    Russian operation launched в Ukraine

    No в а on.
    am
  25. certero
    certero 6 September 2023 14: 30
    -2
    Quote: Anton Temnukhin
    start taking action now. At a minimum, to increase the survivability of ship parking and airfields.

    Cover with tires?
    Any measures are meaningless, since without nuclear weapons Russia will not take out against the NATO countries. If before Ukraine it was still possible to think about something, now it’s definitely clear.
    Therefore, the only solution is to carry out atomic tests and unequivocal indications that any provocation by NATO will provoke a response with atomic bombs.
    1. pettabyte
      pettabyte 6 September 2023 14: 39
      0
      And why export WITHOUT if the Russian Federation has it?
      It's a sin not to use what is.
      1. Escariot
        Escariot 6 September 2023 16: 46
        +1
        Quote: pettabyte
        And why export WITHOUT if the Russian Federation has it?
        It's a sin not to use what is.

        And if "C", then most of the country's population "will go to Paradise"
        1. pettabyte
          pettabyte 6 September 2023 17: 40
          +1
          If attacked, you must answer with everything you have. Without conditions, oink-mu, negotiations, exhortations, and other feeblemindedness.
          Otherwise, if you don’t make it in time first, you’ll have to respond (or you may not be in time at all).

          But when you poke your head in and a couple of hundred or even thousands of warheads are discharged at you - this makes you think about it in terms of "is it worth it to climb."
          It's up to the machine to decide. There is an attack - he answers, no - let them live, for now.

          As for “going to heaven,” that’s not so bad.
          Not everyone wants their children, say, to be sold in brothels as in some African countries "non-colonies" of France, or Thailand (and countries near it (well, I forgot the names)).
          Not everyone wants something to be plundered again.
          Not everyone wants to give up in the end.
          Sometimes it's better to "leave gracefully" and drag everyone along. The extremely probable second part, with some recklessness (full readiness) in relation to the first part, is a guarantee that you won’t have to (they will climb into such a scumbag).

          If you are afraid that "everyone will die", then it will be like this:
          % destroyed Novosibirsk %
          RF: Stop or we'll answer!
          NATO: What are you going to do to us?
          % destroyed Saratov %
          RF: If you don't stop we will strike back!
          % Petersburg destroyed %
          And so on ...
          1. Escariot
            Escariot 6 September 2023 18: 48
            +1
            Quote: pettabyte
            If attacked, you must answer with everything you have. Without conditions, oink-mu, negotiations, exhortations, and other feeblemindedness.
            Otherwise, if you don’t make it in time first, you’ll have to respond (or you may not be in time at all).

            But when you poke your head in and a couple of hundred or even thousands of warheads are discharged at you - this makes you think about it in terms of "is it worth it to climb."
            It's up to the machine to decide. There is an attack - he answers, no - let them live, for now.

            As for “going to heaven,” that’s not so bad.
            Not everyone wants their children, say, to be sold in brothels as in some African countries "non-colonies" of France, or Thailand (and countries near it (well, I forgot the names)).
            Not everyone wants something to be plundered again.
            Not everyone wants to give up in the end.
            Sometimes it's better to "leave gracefully" and drag everyone along. The extremely probable second part, with some recklessness (full readiness) in relation to the first part, is a guarantee that you won’t have to (they will climb into such a scumbag).

            If you are afraid that "everyone will die", then it will be like this:
            % destroyed Novosibirsk %
            RF: Stop or we'll answer!
            NATO: What are you going to do to us?
            % destroyed Saratov %
            RF: If you don't stop we will strike back!
            % Petersburg destroyed %
            And so on ...

            In order not to engage in such nonsense, the USSR and the USA agreed what exactly should be considered aggression followed by war. The list is quite short. And the West does not even come close to this line. Compare the half-year-long reflections on the supply of aircraft to Ukraine and how the Soviet Foxes shot down the Americans. And these LiSiTsyns were not a reason to throw nuclear weapons, because they did not fall under the definition of aggression, which the world powers agreed on
          2. Someone_Kakoevich
            Someone_Kakoevich 6 September 2023 23: 13
            -1
            Well, look. They said on TV that in Ukraine there are a lot of laboratories with chemical and bioweapons. If we hit them with at least tactical nuclear weapons, then with what probability will their forbidden developments not fly over us?
            Taking into account the fact that their UAVs flew to the capital and even to the Kremlin? And that, by and large, it doesn’t matter if this UAV crashes on its own target, or if it is shot down somewhere over Moscow City ... Infection will still be. And then it will all be scattered throughout the country and few will seem to anyone
        2. Victor Leningradets
          Victor Leningradets 7 September 2023 07: 41
          0
          most of the population of the country "will go to Paradise"

          Another agitushny myth!
          Such a valuable and deadly weapon, and even very scarce due to any reductions and restrictions, serves to defeat the enemy, and not to exterminate the population of large cities (mainly parasitic professions). So: Votkinsk, Severodvinsk, Vilyuchinsk, etc.
    2. Victor Leningradets
      Victor Leningradets 7 September 2023 07: 33
      0
      Therefore, the only solution is to carry out atomic tests and unequivocal indications that any provocation by NATO will provoke a response with atomic bombs.

      As experience shows, ANY red lines no longer work, including "bomb Voronezh".
  26. pettabyte
    pettabyte 6 September 2023 14: 39
    -4
    And why does this clown need a double-edged axe?
    1. linux28
      linux28 6 September 2023 17: 07
      +5
      Are you ready to call him a clown at a personal meeting?
  27. Reklastik
    Reklastik 6 September 2023 19: 17
    -4
    But it was Russia's special military operation in Ukraine in 2022 that finally convinced the majority of Swedes to support joining NATO. And Russian diplomacy was unable to change the situation.
    - but you need to know, the author, whose long actions forced Russia to do this - at least, unlike the afftor, the Russian Foreign Ministry speaks about this openly. And against the background of these someone's long actions, the significance of any efforts of Russian diplomacy is zero, however, it could not be otherwise. The tone of the article is like that of the hero of our time, Garbuzov.
  28. K-50
    K-50 6 September 2023 19: 39
    -3
    And suddenly Erdogan backed down. It's hard to say why this suddenly

    What's so complicated about it, we bought a "Sultan". Everything there has been corrupt since historical times.
    Only before France and Naglia bought, now pin dos sia. That's all the difference.
    Selling, sir. fellow
    1. Mustached Kok
      Mustached Kok 7 September 2023 01: 12
      +5
      I'm afraid that, as it were, because of such ideas, we have problems in foreign policy. If you haven't noticed, Erdogan is pursuing a policy that is beneficial to Turkey. Not Russia, not Europe, but yourself. He is a politician. Cunning and arrogant - but a politician. And he managed to use almost all the political events on the world stage over the past 10 years for himself. He cunningly managed the moods and contradictions of the citizens of neighboring countries. He played on trade and political disputes, including disputes of other countries, skillfully diverted attention from his military operations and competently covered the military operations of others.
      And under such conditions, do you think that it can be bought because of the stereotype based on the political and economic crisis of the Ottoman Empire 100 years ago?
      It's like offering an adult man to take a pacifier in his mouth, thinking "he will take it, because many years ago he took it, so it will be the same now."
      You can't buy Turkey now. Mostly because everything that we could offer her - we have already given her. We gave her weapons (and we are not talking about machine guns that she herself can produce, but about the most complex world-class air defense systems), built energy for them (we built something, but something is in the process of construction), sponsored their companies and forgave them some of them political crimes (although it seems to me that they shot down our Pilots because the Turkish leadership already understood that ours would not be able to demand a decent answer for the crime). What we got was just money. Money, most of which remained in the pockets of officials and top managers of our state-owned companies (moreover, in a "legal" form in the form of salaries and bonuses)
  29. Alexey G
    Alexey G 7 September 2023 01: 27
    +2
    SAU "Archer"
    The range is 30, 40 and 60 with an excalibur, that's why they have all the self-propelled guns that hit further than our MSTUKh, that's why they were preparing for battle, and who was sleeping there and now snoring?
    And for this he does not get a stirrer? Stalin would have shot for this!
    Who slowed down the SV Coalition? Enemy of the people? Naturlikh. So what are we pulling?
    1. Dmitry Rigov
      Dmitry Rigov 7 September 2023 13: 41
      0
      I assume that the problem is the lag in technology. For example, there is simply no production of high-strength steel in the required volume. Before SVO we bought it in Sweden. To produce it, you need to build a new mill, but now you won’t be able to buy equipment. In Russia, for obvious reasons, such production was not mastered.
    2. Yaroslav Tekkel
      Yaroslav Tekkel 7 September 2023 21: 00
      0
      Comrade Stalin, too, with artillery (and in general with any weapon) happened not only well, but also very badly. According to your strict criteria, for the state of anti-tank artillery throughout the Second World War, everyone should have been shot, starting with Comrade Stalin himself. Because "forty-five" (and it's good if sample 42, but in most cases it's not) or even ZiS-3 against PaK 40 is much worse than Msta against Archer.
  30. Cheerock
    Cheerock 7 September 2023 02: 05
    -1
    Sweden's accession to NATO is clearly the merit of the Russian Foreign Ministry and the Russian media, which together carried out (according to the Swedish media) a policy of non-alignment with NATO through open intimidation, including by nuclear forces
    My God, what enchanting delirium! Do you really want to tell us that due to the fact that Solovyov or Skabeeva is freezing something on TV, such global decisions are being made? Are you out of your mind? Or do you think we are out of your mind? That, seriously, such a Swedish king is sitting in Sweden, he switched the TV, and there is a Russian talk show. He looks and says: - We urgently need to join NATO, Solovyov said that he would bomb us all! , - He immediately calls NATO, sends a membership fee to Stoltenberg's card and enters wassat good lol
    1. Yaroslav Tekkel
      Yaroslav Tekkel 7 September 2023 21: 15
      -1
      Quote: CheeRock
      Do you really want to tell us that due to the fact that Solovyov or Skabeeva is freezing something on TV, such global decisions are being made?

      You and I can freeze something there without consequences. But we do it here or in the kitchen. And Solovyov and Skabeeva are sovereign people, and they do it on state television. And if they are not fired or shut up, then their ice cream is agreed with the state to the point. Let me remind you, when Krasovsky blurted out stupidity on his own initiative, flew off the TV at 24 o'clock. When Strelkov-Girkin froze for a long time, not even against, but only parallel to the party line, he was generally imprisoned. So the Swedes know absolutely for sure that Solovyov and Skabeeva carry the game not on their own behalf, but on behalf. Of course, they (the Swedes) are not fools and do not think that if in the evening Solovyov demanded that a nuclear bomb be dropped on all Eurogays, then in the morning this will certainly happen. But they understand that Solovyov is preparing his audience to accept and approve such a scenario in the future.
  31. LastPS
    LastPS 10 September 2023 23: 42
    0
    What can I say, SAAB always made airplanes much better than cars.


    SAAB seemed to make good cars, so what was the point of this phrase?
  32. bror_1100
    bror_1100 12 September 2023 14: 36
    0
    Finland and Sweden & NATO

    When I woke up in the morning of 24.2.2020, I saw the news in the TV.
    I went to see my friends and talked with them. I rekognised that all my friends who had been against NATO were now for NATO (except one).
    How do you eat?

    Bror Lenander
    Finland