Why does August 2023 bring to mind June 1941?

206
Why does August 2023 bring to mind June 1941?

Amazing people have filled the Internet and TV with rants like “Nothing terrible happened, everything is bullshit”. Well, I would say what happened. You know, two damaged planes and two completely destroyed are a lot. Two destroyed IL-76s are “only” 10 billion rubles, if that. How much the repairs will cost is a separate question.

Not the brightest situation with our transport aviation and this is the case, we have already talked about this more than once. And here the loss of four aircraft at once as a result of actions that were cheap compared to the Il-76TD, drones.



I will deliberately leave aside speculation on the topic of where the drones were flying from. Many have already called the Baltic countries and other, no less stupid nonsense. It is not so important where they flew from, although I support the version that says that they flew from our territory. From a small (by tactical standards) distance, therefore the air defense did not have the opportunity to work normally.

The attacked airfield is located on the southeastern outskirts of the city, that is, if drones launched from the north or west, they were supposed to fly over the city. Pskov social networks are silent about this, but that’s where the information would be if something happened. Yes, Ukraine has UAVs at its disposal that can fly from 700 to 1000 km, like the same “Beaver” that visited Moscow several times. And 5 kg of plastid is quite decent.

But the conversation is not about that.

And not even about the airfield security, which, obviously, together with the alerted soldiers from a nearby unit, tried to counteract the UAV attack with the help of small arms weapons. The drones did not come in a crowd, one at a time, so let’s just say that barrage fire from small arms at night made little sense. They could have accidentally gotten into some device, but nothing more. Shooting from machine guns into the dark sky over a lit airfield is, well, so-so. The copters (and I think they were just copters) were flying, the fighters were shooting at random, and the charges were exploding. The fuel and lubricants warehouse added light and smoke at the same time. In general, it’s a rather apocalyptic picture, worthy of an artist’s brush.


As a result, a burnt warehouse with fuel and lubricants and two aircraft. It’s hard to say how many billions were burned that night. But a lot more than ten.

But that's not what we're talking about again. What about? About the photographs published by such a publication as Radio Liberty. But alas, it was not possible to get others, so we have what we have. Of course, if such photos were provided by the Ministry of Defense, it would be more respectable, but the Russian Ministry of Defense, in its usual style, pretends that nothing like this happened.

What should you pay attention to when looking at images from cameras of enemy satellites?



For traces of detonation of UAV charges on the upper part of the fuselage of two unburned aircraft. That is, the drones hit the center section. This is the name of this place on the plane, where the center of gravity, wings and - usually it is there, in the CG area, that the main/central fuel tank lives, from which the engines flow.

That is, they beat, knowing full well where they needed to go. In general, there are tanks in the wings; you can also strike there.

It’s precisely this kind of accuracy, two hits in the center section and one in the wing, that indicate that this was not a “Beaver” or something similar. Such UAVs fly in an inertial system with correction based on satellite system signals (GPS, of course), but even with correction from orbit, the accuracy of such UAVs is conditionally within a radius of 3-7 meters. And the target aircraft must be positioned clearly in the given coordinates, otherwise this “Beaver” will hit you nearby or even in an empty parking lot.

The kind of accuracy that can be seen in pictures and videos traveling across the Internet is easily provided by multi-rotor UAVs. Commonly known as copters. Yes, their flight range is much inferior to aviation-type UAVs, but... They easily fly the same 15-20 km under the control of an experienced operator. But disassembling the copter and stuffing it into backpacks is not difficult. For experienced, again, saboteurs.


Here's an option from DJI: load capacity up to 40 kg, flight altitude up to 2000 m, range up to 10 km. Enough to make a plane? As for me - quite.

By the way, in a similar operation in Soltsy, all the witnesses confidently stated: a quadcopter was flying. There was a similar situation there, but during the day. And in the case of Pskov, the version that there was a DRG with quadrocopters looks quite sane. The Governor of the Pskov Region, Mikhail Vedernikov, announced that operational and verification measures would be carried out. Including on the roads.

It is clear that no one will find anything, but still. The DRG left long ago, the planes were destroyed on the ground.

The most important question: we have been going on for a year and a half... something similar to military operations, called SVO. But why in the photographs before the strike by the Ukrainian side (it is worth noting that the war is in full swing in Ukraine) are the planes standing as if on parade? Yes, like on that very day of June 22, 1941, which will forever remain in stories It will be a dark day for our aviation.

Although, you know, let’s take a short historical excursion again.

Why were so many Soviet aircraft destroyed on the ground on June 22?



Surprise factor? We accept. Indeed, some parts of the NPO telegram, which spoke about a possible attack and the need to disperse aircraft, reached 4 hours before the start of the war. Moreover, at some airfields there were a number of aircraft twice the usual regimental complement. Yes, the same re-equipment with new aircraft that Pokryshkin wrote about. And yes, some units really suffered significant damage from German attacks and bombings.

On the first day of the war.


What factor of surprise can we talk about here? Military operations have been going on for a year and a half, the enemy has been trying to attack our airfields for a year and a half, from Millerovo to Engels, and in Pskov the planes were still standing. You can clearly see them, they are so big and white that you can miss them at night, but you have to try very hard.

Ukrainian operators did not try. The result is obvious.

By the way, why only Pskov? And here is Khalino, near Kursk. And satellite images published by bloggers and local media indicate that some 100 kilometers from the front line the fighters are standing in exactly the same way.


But this is simply betrayal and sloppiness - to put things this way, considering that the enemy is stupid, blind and deaf. No, unfortunately, he is not like that. He is well aware of everything that concerns our airfields. Where, how and how much aircraft cost. How they are protected or unprotected.

Here you need to understand that the Ukrainian Armed Forces have missiles. But it is difficult to cause damage with a rocket, as happened in Millerovo at the very beginning. There is air defense, which very calmly sees and destroys missiles. But UAVs, which are also launched point-blank from our territory, are much more difficult to detect.


Here we can recall the experience of other countries. Syria, the GDR, and even here we knew how to build protective structures for aircraft. More effective than covering bombers with old tires.








And even now they can. Here at the Baltimore airfield, during reconstruction, this was built:


This is not the final version, just the frame of the hangar, but I don’t want to take a modern photo today. For good reason, you understand.

Yes, not a concrete “garage” for an airplane, but the beauty of the moment is that even a “barbecue” will protect you from a drone, although you will have to make it huge for the airplane. But it will protect. Yes, you can come up with many ways to protect yourself, the best of which would be the immediate removal from their positions of commanders of units who allow the military equipment entrusted to them to be deployed like this.

If there is no way to protect aircraft at an airfield, the use of such an airfield is more than doubtful. Yes, today aircraft do not need to be protected from cruise missiles, the Ukrainian Armed Forces do not yet have them, but a drone capable of carrying 5-10 kg of explosives is no less dangerous, and perhaps even more so. It is less noticeable, it can actually be delivered almost close to the target of attack, control requires only an operator.

Is there anything you can do to counter it? Yes. Shelter in hangars, caponiers. Disguise. The operator, by the way, is human; he can make mistakes if he is well disguised. False targets. And, an important matter, is the transfer of equipment to another airfield, out of the reach of enemy weapons.

It is clear that it will be very difficult for the Ukrainian DRG to hit aircraft of the same transport aircraft stationed in the Nizhny Novgorod area. I would say that this is a very difficult task that can be accomplished solely by sending long-range drones like the Swift, hoping that it will be able to hit something. Or aircraft located in the zone of possible destruction must be reliably protected from all types of attacks by the Ukrainian side. There aren't that many of them.

It is very stupid to lose such expensive equipment as aircraft, simply because unit commanders do not fulfill their official duties and display the aircraft as if they were on parade.
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  1. +41
    4 September 2023
    The structure will certainly be huge, for an IL-76 at least 50 long, 60 wide and 18 meters high, but damn it, it doesn’t need to be insulated, it doesn’t even need walls. Supports, trusses and corrugated roofing - it is guaranteed to cover from a reset, it is already worse from the FPV, but here the question arises about the protection of the airfield. The issue is financing ... More precisely, deciding what is more important - airplanes or, for example, the development of the tourism industry in Turkey by the Alfa-Bank group ...
    1. +49
      4 September 2023
      In Turkey there are “respected partners”... but who in Pskov?

      And if it was only about Alpha... in the 90s in the Russian Federation a new caste of nouveau riche appeared in the Russian Federation, sort of nobles from the dirt... which, due to a successful grab and outright betrayal of the people by the authorities, decided that they could do anything... but unlike The old Russian nobility (not to mention the early Soviet "elite"), these characters have neither honor nor conscience... but only the desire to grab at three throats and, while there is an opportunity, to get more for themselves. Moreover, there are practically no really effective characters who THEMSELVES organized something unique and are truly worthy of their assets... and they raised the same servants for themselves... all these Galkins, Smolyaninovs, Urgants, Khamatovs...

      Capitalism, happiness, total crap
      1. -9
        4 September 2023
        Quote: Nikolay310
        In Turkey there are “respected partners”... but who in Pskov?

        And if it was only about Alpha... in the 90s in the Russian Federation a new caste of nouveau riche appeared in the Russian Federation, sort of nobles from the dirt... which, due to a successful grab and outright betrayal of the people by the authorities, decided that they could do anything... but unlike The old Russian nobility (not to mention the early Soviet "elite"), these characters have neither honor nor conscience... but only the desire to grab at three throats and, while there is an opportunity, to get more for themselves. Moreover, there are practically no really effective characters who THEMSELVES organized something unique and are truly worthy of their assets... and they raised the same servants for themselves... all these Galkins, Smolyaninovs, Urgants, Khamatovs...

        Capitalism, happiness, total crap

        The “elite” and capitalists regularly allocated money to the budget. Defense expenditures and the State Defense Order amounted to up to 4% of GDP. This is really a lot. Another thing is how people's representatives and officials chosen by you personally disposed of these billions of dollars.
        1. +27
          4 September 2023
          Chosen by us? Yes, you are a joker! In 1996, Zyuganov was elected president. Medvedev D. A. will not let you lie.
          1. 0
            4 September 2023
            Quote: Boris Sergeev
            Chosen by us? Yes, you are a joker! In 1996, Zyuganov was elected president. Medvedev D. A. will not let you lie.

            Well then, all the more questions for you. It was you who let Yeltsin and subsequent presidents rule, and did not go to Manezhka.
            1. +2
              4 September 2023
              Do you really think so or is there nothing to object to? You have no idea that this was the reason that he would not go to Manezhka, and even if they even suspected something like that, they would have come up with something else and you would have done the same in their place.
        2. +6
          4 September 2023
          Power is the spokesman for the will of the ruling class, and the ruling class we have is the class of capitalists, so that the capitalists can only blame mirrors. And where are your business captains, "honest elite" for example Usmanov or Tinkov?)))
        3. +1
          7 September 2023
          These capitalists took even more offshore, hiding behind the sign of the freedom of capital, selling the national wealth of the country on their personal behalf ...
        4. 0
          7 September 2023
          The elite and capitalists regularly allocated money to the budget.

          You write nonsense, the oligarchy had to allocate 40% of income, plus a tax on yachts, plus updating funds and factories to stimulate the economy, and also the opening of new factories and corporations is necessary. Look, Potanin has 30 yards of bucks, he should pay 12 yards to the budget, but he doesn’t pay.
      2. +10
        4 September 2023
        it turned out funny about the nobles of the Russian Empire, read about the construction of the Savior on Spilled Blood, where Nikolay's brother warmed his hands very well)
        1. 0
          12 September 2023
          Well, yes...and also, if you remember about “seven pounds of the highest fat”...))))
      3. +11
        4 September 2023
        "all these Galkins, Smolyaninovs, Urgants, Khamatovs..."
        what do these characters have to do with the Ministry of Defense, and specifically with those persons who are responsible for the safety of equipment? I think none. and the harm from them is much less than from those who expose our planes for destruction by the enemy. It’s another matter, it’s much easier and easier to find an Urgant and punish it than to find, and most importantly, punish the body that exposes the technique to the festive rulers. again, no one needs this - suddenly you come out on yourself laughing so expensive and super-scarce aircraft will continue to burn “with a penny candle.” the enemy knows where the airfields are, what is on them, and how they are guarded, and uses this successfully. so, we are waiting for fires and explosions in Engels (I know that the planes were transferred somewhere to a new land, this is just a word)
        1. +1
          7 September 2023
          Galkins

          Galkin’s father, a colonel general, was the head of the Main Armored Directorate of the Ministry of Defense, and his brother Dmitry Galkin is a billionaire, inherited military-industrial complex factories, so Galkin is not a servant, but a representative of the elite of the Russian Federation.
        2. 0
          12 September 2023
          You're right about "finding"... One and a half million (if I'm not mistaken)) sets of uniforms that disappeared into "nowhere"... we talked... and hushed up the topic. And who, what, where no one is looking for. An acquaintance arrived for three days back from Kurgan, he said, the soldiers don’t walk around in rags, but the whole uniform is clearly very worn... it’s clear that it’s not a parade, but...
      4. +1
        4 September 2023
        By the way, about Galkin. Do you know that he has a brother? Do you know what he does?
        1. +1
          6 September 2023
          Who, since 2006, has been the president of the Military Industrial Company LLC?
      5. 0
        5 September 2023
        I completely agree. Only the names there should be different. Those that you are afraid to name out loud
      6. 0
        5 September 2023
        /... all these Galkins, Smolyaninovs, Urgants, Khamatovs.../, Medvedevs, Putins, Shoigu...
      7. +4
        5 September 2023
        Gazprom recently paid $78 million for advertising on the Turkish football team's uniform.
      8. 0
        12 September 2023
        these characters have neither honor nor conscience... but only the desire to grab three throats

        Urgently! Urgently report these scoundrels to V.V. Putin, he doesn’t know!
        Once he finds out, then we’ll build hangars!
    2. +16
      4 September 2023
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      The building will certainly be huge,

      Yes, there is no need for any "huge" structures, it is necessary to figure out the place of basing. In Soviet times, there were thousands of 1,5-2 km from Pskov to the nearest NATO country, and now it is practically on the border. Conclusion - you need to change the place of deployment. But this is a special case, the advanced airfields of tactical aviation, of course, should be (and were once) equipped with protective structures, this is a blatant blunder of our leadership, which, alas, will go unpunished (for specific individuals, of course)
      1. +4
        4 September 2023
        "Yes, there is no need for any" huge "structures, we need to figure out the place of deployment"
        it’s easier and cheaper, and most importantly, faster to build a canopy over the plane from a grid or tin than to move an entire airfield somewhere. and, again, are you sure that the enemy will not launch a drone in a new place?
        1. +2
          4 September 2023
          Quote: ZloyKot
          it’s easier and cheaper, and most importantly, faster, to build a canopy made of mesh or tin over the plane,

          Of course, building a structure made of shit and sticks is faster, easier and at first glance cheaper, but if, for example, two consecutive strikes are made? .. And in the case of Pskov, the airfield is practically at the forefront and not only UAVs are fighting there is no animal cat?)
          An object of the wrong class to be placed at the very border.
          1. -1
            5 September 2023
            "but if, for example, two consecutive strikes are delivered? .. And in the case of Pskov, the airfield is practically at the forefront and not only UAVs are fighting (or is there no beast more terrible for you?)"
            from Pskov to the Ukrainian border 700 km, and this is through Belarus, so only drones, DRGs, everything is within a radius of 20-30 km. this is where networks and disguise are needed
            1. +1
              5 September 2023
              It’s 700 km to Ukraine, and how much to the nearest NATO country?
    3. +11
      4 September 2023
      At least protective nets would be pulled over the planes. So that they are not visible from the satellite and from the drone. Well, it could have been done.

      Then, even assuming that somewhere under the net (theoretically) there should be an airplane, the drone would not be able to hit the airplane so accurately. You just couldn't see where to go.
      1. -18
        4 September 2023
        Quote: Stas157
        Then, even assuming that somewhere under the net (theoretically) there should be an airplane, the drone would not be able to hit the airplane so accurately. It would simply be impossible to see where to go

        Well, if you forget about radar detection and/or guidance, then yes - it’s not visible.

        PS: we should also forget about reconnaissance, yes.
        1. +13
          4 September 2023
          Quote: Repellent
          Well, if you forget about radar facilities detection and/or guidance

          There were none on the attacking drones. But they hit it right. If there had been a grid this would not have happened. At least in terms of amazing accuracy. To the place where the tanks and fuel on the Il-76 are located.
        2. -3
          4 September 2023
          "If you forget about radar detection and / or guidance, then yes - you can't see it." metal mesh or tin shields any radar
          1. +1
            6 September 2023
            It’s just that anger is already taking me from an elementary scribble .. of persons responsible for their units at all levels, and this has been going on for a year and a half. It turns out that there is no discipline in the country, no readiness. Some still have a dull naivety that distance protects them. Won't protect! Now there are other opportunities compared to the 2nd World War. I suspect that we can wait for another attack in the east of the country, 10000 kilometers from the front ... A very tasty target, military and political, to strike at transport routes with China, India ... Surely, somewhere in London this possibility is being solved. After all, the gas pipelines were blown up, and there were no consequences for the performers. It is simply ridiculous and bitter to hear in the first person "threats" that new deliveries of Western weapons to Ukraine will be "just as destroyed IN UKRAINE as the previous ones." I fully agree with the voiced opinion of determined people that suppliers should also be beaten: in ports, on a flight, at a place of production, etc. Subversive work is necessary so that anyone who not only shoots and kills Russian citizens, but also those who he makes shells for him, transports them, gives orders, he knew that he would "fly in return" for this, wherever he was: at a factory in Manchester, Vienna, Warsaw, Prague or the state of Minnesota ...
            1. 0
              6 September 2023
              If the answer arrives to all suppliers, the Russian Federation will lose this conflict very quickly. If the Russian army cannot cope now, think about what will happen if the US or NATO invades. The most irresponsible thing is to start hostilities with an army that is not capable of performing the desired task. It is not only about the material part, but about who leads at different levels, about industrial capabilities, about the availability of personnel capable of carrying out engineering and technical work, about the moral and political basis of one's own, about the financial and ideological components in the state.
              1. 0
                8 September 2023
                They tell you, we haven’t started yet...
                when they start, the NATs will immediately shit themselves.....
          2. +1
            6 September 2023
            Brothers, have the engineers really died? This is elementary, when weaving threads, fabrics, nets, a metal thread is added - a thin wire and the fishing net becomes a radar screen.
            1. 0
              6 September 2023
              Probably the reason again is money. They do not pay engineers, do not purchase mesh, etc.
              1. 0
                8 September 2023
                It must be assumed that the reason is in the leadership of the Moscow Region, and there is a ton of money and engineers, only the funds are directed in the wrong direction...
              2. 0
                12 September 2023
                Certainly. As written above, it is better to print advertising on the uniform of the Turkish football team for $78 million. More profitable...
    4. +10
      4 September 2023
      It is necessary to combine passive and active means of protection. Passive are shelters of various types, active are countermeasures. Unfortunately, electronic warfare systems turned out to be not as effective as previously thought, broadband ones block their own electronics, and narrowly targeted ones require first detection, and then targeting the UAV and a fairly long exposure, and during exposure it is not clear whether the device is disabled or not and it can continue to fly for a long time, hitting arbitrary targets. SAM systems of the "Thor" and "Pantsir" type are ineffective against low-flying, cheap UAVs, since the complexes themselves are very expensive and can themselves be good targets for UAVs and have increased power against cheap devices, which sometimes cannot be aimed at. To protect against small UAVs, you do not need a missile or rocket-artillery system, but a purely artillery system, cheap, but necessarily robotic, combining radar and optical detection systems in different spectral ranges and destruction systems, based on small-caliber machine gun systems of 12--14 caliber mm with a block of rotating barrels, “Gatling” type. Why not a larger caliber, for example 20-37 mm? But because a large-caliber machine gun caliber ensures the compactness of the system and its relative cheapness with a sufficient destructive effect of small-sized UAVs. Naturally, such systems should be used in conjunction with other, more serious air defense systems.
    5. +18
      4 September 2023
      For the sake of interest, I looked for how much such a structure costs. 5 minutes of searching 10-13 million rubles. open price. Discounts and large quantities can safely drop the price 2 times.
      1. 0
        4 September 2023
        Quote from cold wind
        For the sake of interest, I looked for how much such a structure costs. 5 minutes of searching 10-13 million rubles. open price. Discounts and large quantities can safely drop the price 2 times.

        Eh, why exactly is this? Well, is this the size of the conditional room in general or the width of the ceiling? Making a shed with pillars inside is not a problem, but making a 50-meter ceiling is a completely different matter. From your screenshot it is not clear whether this is a shed with pillars or a 50-meter ceiling. Can you clarify?
        1. +2
          4 September 2023
          Quote from Escariot
          From your screenshot it is not clear whether this is a shed with pillars or a 50-meter ceiling. Can you clarify?

          I can't be more precise, but in general, 50 meters of overlap is not something extraordinary. Manege in Moscow - overlap, I remember, 44 meters - made of wood. Without intermediate supports, one span. 19th century. True, not so long ago the original roof burned down.
    6. +9
      4 September 2023
      Quote: Vladimir_2U
      The structure will certainly be huge, for an IL-76 at least 50 long, 60 wide and 18 meters high, but damn it, it doesn’t need to be insulated, it doesn’t even need walls. Supports, trusses and corrugated roofing - it is guaranteed to cover from a reset, it is already worse from the FPV, but here the question arises about the protection of the airfield. The issue is financing ... More precisely, deciding what is more important - airplanes or, for example, the development of the tourism industry in Turkey by the Alfa-Bank group ...

      What does Alfa-Bank have to do with Turkey? Our country spent 3.5-4% of GDP annually on maintaining the army in peacetime. That's a lot. But NATO standards need to spend 2%, and even now some do not reach these figures. How this 4% of GDP was spent is another matter, but this is clearly not a question for Alfa-Bank
      1. +11
        4 September 2023
        Quote from Escariot
        What does Alfa-Bank have to do with Turkey? Our country spent 3.5-4% of GDP annually on maintaining the army in peacetime. That's a lot. But NATO standards need to spend 2%, and even now some do not reach these figures. How this 4% of GDP was spent is another matter, but this is clearly not a question for Alfa-Bank

        Despite the fact that this money was withdrawn and spent in Turkey, moreover, during the NWO, but earned in Russia, that's what.
        And yes hi the question is really not for Alfa-Bank, but for those who allow Alfa-Bank to do this.
        1. -1
          4 September 2023
          Quote: Vladimir_2U
          Quote from Escariot
          What does Alfa-Bank have to do with Turkey? Our country spent 3.5-4% of GDP annually on maintaining the army in peacetime. That's a lot. But NATO standards need to spend 2%, and even now some do not reach these figures. How this 4% of GDP was spent is another matter, but this is clearly not a question for Alfa-Bank

          Despite the fact that this money was withdrawn and spent in Turkey, moreover, during the NWO, but earned in Russia, that's what.
          And yes hi the question is really not for Alfa-Bank, but for those who allow Alfa-Bank to do this.

          You will first figure out how you spent 4% of GDP over all past years, and then ask questions about Alfa-Bank.
          1. 0
            7 September 2023
            You will first understand how you spent 4% of GDP

            Let the prosecutor's office sort this out.

            questions about Alfa-Bank.


            In the West, almost every large and medium-sized company will allocate money for management companies, from Microsoft to Volkswagen, almost everyone allocates money. Why did the oligarch grow up and large businesses do not allocate money for SVO?
        2. +4
          4 September 2023
          Um, maybe it’s because Alfa is a private bank and it doesn’t owe anything to anyone, they won’t increase their profits from SVO, but from tourism, yes, and Alfa will pay taxes to the Russian budget from them. Nobody blames you for going to the store to buy food, instead of chipping in on the bunkers.
          1. 0
            5 September 2023
            Gazprom seems to be a controlling stake in the state, but this does not prevent it from paying 80 million dollars for advertising on the form of Turkish football players and 1.3 billion dollars for gas transit to Ukraine
            1. 0
              6 September 2023
              Quote: Mikhail Krivopalov
              Gazprom seems to be a controlling stake in the state, but this does not prevent it from paying 80 million dollars for advertising on the form of Turkish football players and 1.3 billion dollars for gas transit to Ukraine

              Gazprom pays taxes to the state in accordance with the law. And after payment, he is free to spend the net profit as he wants, he pays shareholders, or bonuses to management. If you don’t pay for transit, there will be no profit
          2. -1
            7 September 2023
            Quote from realing
            Nobody blames you for going to the store to buy food, instead of chipping in on the bunkers.

            And who will blame? Those who robbed the people all these 32 years since the collapse of the USSR? They need these bunkers in the first place, so let them spend the stolen money if they want to escape and save the loot. But something I do not see the stormy enthusiasm in the ranks of 256 thousand dollar millionaires of the Russian Federation. The way people's money was spent on this is how it will be spent.
            1. 0
              12 September 2023
              Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
              Quote from realing
              Nobody blames you for going to the store to buy food, instead of chipping in on the bunkers.

              And who will blame? Those who robbed the people all these 32 years since the collapse of the USSR? They need these bunkers in the first place, so let them spend the stolen money if they want to escape and save the loot. But something I do not see the stormy enthusiasm in the ranks of 256 thousand dollar millionaires of the Russian Federation. The way people's money was spent on this is how it will be spent.

              This is how non-dollar millionaires started SVO and most of them are not delighted with this idea. Why should there be wild enthusiasm?
          3. 0
            12 September 2023
            From activities in Turkey, Alpha will pay taxes in Turkey...
    7. 0
      4 September 2023
      -it is difficult to hit aircraft of the same transport aircraft stationed in the Nizhny Novgorod area.
      Is it difficult for “kayakers” to get to Nizhny Novgorod?
    8. +4
      4 September 2023
      We are building stadiums, and big ones at that. So what is the difficulty? There are no hangars, which means keeping planes away.
      1. -2
        4 September 2023
        Quote: Alexey Lantukh
        We are building stadiums, and big ones at that. So what is the difficulty? There are no hangars, which means keeping planes away.

        Naturally we are building. And big enough. Another thing is that these stadiums cost money. The budget of the Ministry of Defense, even in peacetime, was relatively large. What do you propose to inflate it even more or to redirect some of the funds from the construction of aircraft to the construction of hangars for them?
        1. 0
          4 September 2023
          Quote from Escariot
          The budget of the Moscow Region, even in peacetime, was relatively large. What do you propose to inflate it even more or redirect part of the funds from the construction of aircraft to the construction of hangars for them?

          Maybe it could be redirected from here?
          Starting from January 1, the scaffolding on the Bychiy Island will also begin to seethe with work: the long-awaited construction of the boarding house of pupils, glorified in the literary classics, will unfold there. According to Deputy Minister of Defense Timur Ivanov, who is in charge of construction, the Ministry of Defense still continues to receive requests to recreate this legendary institution in the city.

          “The issue has been carefully worked out, the proposals have been submitted to the President of Russia and supported by him,” Ivanov said.

          The purpose of the boarding house is to continue the traditions of the first women's educational institution: the Smolny Institute for Noble Maidens.

          “This educational institution will be focused on the daughters of military personnel so that they receive a quality education,” says Deputy Defense Minister Tatyana Shevtsova. - Not all of them will choose a military career. However, I am sure that they will fight at any educational Olympiad in any subject ...

          The project is a record one: in less than a year, the boarding school will be ready for the first pupils to begin to comprehend science. Builders must be on time. Huge French windows overlooking the Neva, double rooms with the necessary comfort, classrooms with modern equipment, laboratories, a gym, a swimming pool - all this is the future image of an educational institution with a two-hundred-year history.
          1. 0
            6 September 2023
            Maybe it could be redirected from here?

            And where will they then recruit their wives / boyfriends?
        2. 0
          6 September 2023
          Quote from Escariot
          Quote: Alexey Lantukh
          We are building stadiums, and big ones at that. So what is the difficulty? There are no hangars, which means keeping planes away.

          Naturally we are building. And big enough. Another thing is that these stadiums cost money. The budget of the Ministry of Defense, even in peacetime, was relatively large. What do you propose to inflate it even more or to redirect some of the funds from the construction of aircraft to the construction of hangars for them?

          Well, if you think logically, then yes, redirect part of the funds to defense. In Ukraine, that Su-24 airfield has been plowed up so many times, and there are hangars from Soviet times
        3. -1
          7 September 2023
          The budget of the Ministry of Defense, even in peacetime, was relatively large.

          You boast about your 4% of the PPV, but you forget that the budget of the Russian Federation itself is quite modest. The GDP of New York alone is equal to the GDP of the Russian Federation, therefore 2% of the State budget is much more than 4% of the Russian one.
          1. 0
            12 September 2023
            Quote: nickname7
            The budget of the Ministry of Defense, even in peacetime, was relatively large.

            You boast about your 4% of the PPV, but you forget that the budget of the Russian Federation itself is quite modest. The GDP of New York alone is equal to the GDP of the Russian Federation, therefore 2% of the State budget is much more than 4% of the Russian one.

            Agree. The budget is like New York, and the ambitions are like all of America. Well, you understand.
    9. -2
      4 September 2023
      Don't overdo it. There is no such question about financing the tourism industry. There is a question of hangars or Patriot Park, digital communications or a temple of the armed forces.
    10. +3
      5 September 2023
      Look at the LIS in Aviastar. As a basic design - suitable. True, something needs to be covered from the ends.
    11. 0
      7 September 2023
      The bureaucratic system is unteachable and does not have feedback from reality; the only thing that affects it is losses (the method of mathematical poking), and then the losses must be systematic and constant, after which the bureaucrats slowly begin to react with difficulty. And the most important drawback is the lack of communication in general and communications at the tactical level in the Ministry of Defense.
      It will take about 5 years before the bureaucrats will be able to establish normal communications instead of baofengs and learn to build mesh fences against drones around the aircraft parking lot, for those aircraft that by that time, alas, will remain.
  2. 0
    4 September 2023
    In a caponier with such "gates" and the blind will not miss a copter.
    1. +1
      4 September 2023
      Quote: Andrey Moskvin
      In a caponier with such "gates" and the blind will not miss a copter.

      To get into the gate you need to decrease, and this is a significant deterioration in the control signal even at short distances.
    2. +1
      4 September 2023
      Why a gate? Hang large blinds, such chains, any copter will get stuck in them
  3. +3
    4 September 2023
    There was a similar situation, but during the day. And in the case of Pskov, the version that there was a DRG with quadrocopters looks quite sane.

    A combined strike... where the Beavers raided to distract attention was... however, the enemy is cunning and insidious what The Airborne Forces relaxed, missed the blow... it looks like Budanov and his office won’t mind spending the Dagger.
    There was already an article on the hangar theme at VO ... there people discussed all the nuances a long time ago ... again they stepped on the old rake in the Moscow Region ... well, someone does not learn from their mistakes ... a difficult case.
    1. +16
      4 September 2023
      The question is: who was put up against the wall behind the transport sides standing next to the border, or are the landing forces looming for whom and stars on their shoulder straps and crosses on their chests? And for such pranks, it’s normal to be thrown to the wall.
      1. AUL
        +7
        4 September 2023
        Well, why immediately to the wall? You can just transfer to a neighboring position. Mono even with an increase (small, of course).
        1. 0
          4 September 2023
          "You can just transfer to a neighboring position."
          this is probably the limit laughing
      2. +1
        4 September 2023
        Quote: saigon
        The question is, who was put against the wall behind the transport boards standing next to the border

        А next to the border - how much is this? 600 km - is it near the border?
        Yes, and does not save the distance - remember the blow to Engels?

        And the boards in Pskov are standing for one simple reason - the 76th Guards Infantry Division.
        1. 0
          4 September 2023
          "And the sides in Pskov are standing for one simple reason - the 76th Guards Infantry Division"
          and this 76th Guards Infantry Division uses these sides every day? there are more on en 2 train. and if you need a big plane, well, there, fly to astana laughing can be ordered in advance
        2. -1
          5 September 2023
          Quote: Alexey RA
          How long is it near the border? 600 km - is it near the border?

          What 600 km? Pskov?
          1. 0
            5 September 2023
            Quote: DenVB
            What 600 km? Pskov?

            To the border with the country where the NWO is now going on - yes.
            1. 0
              5 September 2023
              Quote: Alexey RA
              To the border with the country where the NWO is now going on - yes.

              There are thirty kilometers to the border with Estonia. And drones could well have flown from there. Even without the knowledge of the government of this country. Or with secret consent.
    2. +3
      4 September 2023
      The case is so difficult that it seems as if it is a gesture of good will. As in the 90s they sawed everything that was possible for a pat on the shoulder, and now they leave the planes - they say hit us, we are weak and stupid, just don’t block accounts!
  4. +11
    4 September 2023
    What does this have to do with the construction of shelters when every airfield must have short-range radars that can even detect birds. They obviously did not work and there were no elementary electronic warfare systems. It is clear that everything is now going to the front, but we should not forget about critical infrastructure.
    1. +6
      4 September 2023
      it is possible that even caponiers were built on pieces of paper. but in fact, villas on the protected shores for the lamp-bearers and their loved ones. as well as ammunition for mobikov, according to the papers, it also had to be in warehouses. they just "hushed up the topic" with ammunition - these planes will also be hushed up
  5. +11
    4 September 2023
    My question is what was the electronic warfare doing at that time and was it at all? Drones within a 5 km radius of such objects should not see anything.
    1. 0
      6 September 2023
      Should electronic warfare work around the clock? Yes, and it’s not a fact that it jams
  6. +37
    4 September 2023
    And if you remember the disaster with the cruiser "Moscow", weren't there "amazing" commentators screaming that the ship was a piece of iron, the main thing was that the boys were saved... and we'll build new ships... and not all of the boys from it returned home and there were no ships " built", and they seem to have forgotten about Moscow ...

    With such an attitude, it’s somehow naive to hope for victory... and is there such a goal at all?
    1. +9
      4 September 2023
      Quote: Nikolay310
      and is there such a goal at all?

      Not in the eyebrow, but in the crotch ...
    2. +12
      4 September 2023
      Quote: Nikolay310
      and is there such a goal at all?

      Not. I haven't heard.
      1. 0
        6 September 2023
        The Strategic Objectives are the same, but change depending on the situation.
    3. old
      +8
      4 September 2023
      With such an attitude, it’s somehow naive to hope for victory... and is there such a goal at all?
      Not everyone was preparing for war, many were preparing for parades ..
    4. +5
      4 September 2023
      of course there is: to master the budget, and you thought what was the goal?
    5. +1
      4 September 2023
      "Yes, and is there such a goal at all?"
      I'll tell you right away, no one has such a goal. the current sluggish svo suits everyone, on either side of the lbs
      1. +3
        4 September 2023
        And under the brand of this sluggish one, you can gradually tighten the screws within the country. And also - on both sides of the LBS. Maybe the agreement is not just planned, but has already taken place in fact for a long time?
  7. +8
    4 September 2023
    Responsible, as always, will not be, because there is no one to ask the responsible ones.
  8. +10
    4 September 2023
    Yes, just pull the net, as in some poultry farms or hunting farms, only metal. There will already be protection, and start building capital structures.
  9. +17
    4 September 2023
    Indeed, the NPO telegram, which spoke of a possible attack and the need to disperse aircraft, reached some parts 4 hours before the start of the war. Moreover, at some airfields there were twice the number of aircraft than the usual regimental set.

    Commander of the Air Force ZVO Kopets I.I. shot himself on the evening of June 22, 1941. Perhaps his conscience tortured him for what he had done.
    The commander of the Western Military District Pavlov, together with the commander of the 4th Army, Major General Korobkov, the Chief of Staff of the Western Front, Major General Klimovskikh, and the Chief of Communications of the Western Front, Major General Grigoriev, were shot. These courage and conscience were not enough to shoot themselves.
    ps All these "innocent victims of Stalin's repressions" were rehabilitated by Khrushchev along with the unfinished Bandera, with whose descendants Russia has to fight again for its freedom.
    pps For more than a year and a half, not the most successful (at the moment) CBO has not yet been answered.
    1. +19
      4 September 2023
      so far no one answered
      Well, why not. There is no time to hang up orders and medals.
    2. -4
      4 September 2023
      Quote: Amateur
      Commander of the Air Force ZVO Kopets I.I. shot himself on the evening of June 22, 1941. Perhaps his conscience tortured him for what he had done.
      The commander of the Western Military District Pavlov, together with the commander of the 4th Army, Major General Korobkov, the Chief of Staff of the Western Front, Major General Klimovskikh, and the Chief of Communications of the Western Front, Major General Grigoriev, were shot. These courage and conscience were not enough to shoot themselves.

      During the war, 56 generals were shot under all articles of the Criminal Code - out of about 5.
      Less than 1%...
      Crimea, Kharkov, Smolensk, Balaton and so on - who answered for them?
      The everyday life of our country since the beginning of the beginnings ....
    3. 0
      4 September 2023
      Quote: Amateur
      Commander of the Air Force ZVO Kopets I.I. shot himself on the evening of June 22, 1941. Perhaps his conscience tortured him for what he had done.
      The commander of the Western Military District Pavlov, together with the commander of the 4th Army, Major General Korobkov, the Chief of Staff of the Western Front, Major General Klimovskikh, and the Chief of Communications of the Western Front, Major General Grigoriev, were shot. These courage and conscience were not enough to shoot themselves.

      But Pavlov's northern neighbor, Colonel-General Kuznetsov, was only transferred to the post of army commander in early July. Although the situation in his district was much worse than that of Pavlov: at the beginning of July, the Germans passed through the district, took Pskov and reached the forefield of the Luga UR.
      And this was not the last jamb of Kuznetsov - it was he who commanded the 51st OA when the Germans broke through our defenses on the isthmuses and broke into the Crimea.
      But this did not lead to organizational conclusions. Kuznetsov was further deputy commander of the troops of the Western Front, the Volkhov Front, the Karelian Front, after the war he commanded the Ural Military District.
    4. -1
      4 September 2023
      "The commander of the Western Military District Pavlov, together with the commander of the 4th Army, Major General Korobkov, the Chief of Staff of the Western Front, Major General Klimovskikh, and the Chief of Communications of the Western Front, Major General Grigoriev, were shot. These courage and conscience were not enough to shoot themselves"
      you forgot to add the main culprits - the head of the veterinary service of the front, and the head of the military department
    5. -1
      5 September 2023
      Pavlov did not want to shoot, he persistently tried to get on the line of contact, apparently he wanted to go over to the Germans
    6. +1
      6 September 2023
      Quote: Amateur
      Indeed, the NPO telegram, which spoke of a possible attack and the need to disperse aircraft, reached some parts 4 hours before the start of the war. Moreover, at some airfields there were twice the number of aircraft than the usual regimental set.

      Commander of the Air Force ZVO Kopets I.I. shot himself on the evening of June 22, 1941. Perhaps his conscience tortured him for what he had done.
      The commander of the Western Military District Pavlov, together with the commander of the 4th Army, Major General Korobkov, the Chief of Staff of the Western Front, Major General Klimovskikh, and the Chief of Communications of the Western Front, Major General Grigoriev, were shot. These courage and conscience were not enough to shoot themselves.
      ps All these "innocent victims of Stalin's repressions" were rehabilitated by Khrushchev along with the unfinished Bandera, with whose descendants Russia has to fight again for its freedom.
      pps For more than a year and a half, not the most successful (at the moment) CBO has not yet been answered.

      Wouldn't you like to shoot the one who put Pavlov in? If he had the level of commander? There were no options in 41g except to retreat, but they were not allowed to retreat, so they fell into the boilers. By the way, they fell into the boilers in 1942, is Pavlov to blame?
  10. +17
    4 September 2023
    Roman, not those times and not those people in power. Then the conclusions were made quite quickly, they strengthened the defense of the airfields to the extent possible, they asked the perpetrators to the fullest extent of the law. And now we have something incomprehensible going on under the abbreviation "SVO" and there are completely no those responsible for the surrender of cities, military positions. Now they can only be punished for speaking out against the supreme, and everything else is unimportant. You can ask why there are no electronic warfare systems near the planes in order to suppress the electronic stuffing of the drone, you can ask a lot of things, but when was the supreme at least responsible for something?
    1. -8
      4 September 2023
      Quote: Thrifty
      , you can ask a lot of things, but when has the supreme one ever been responsible for anything?He is infallible, which means no one is to blame, force majeure...

      Someone asked Stalin for 22.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX??
      Nothing new, everything is as usual...
      1. -10
        4 September 2023
        Quote: your1970
        Someone asked Stalin for 22.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX??

        To be fair, the bulk of the planes were shot down in the air. On the ground, by military standards, not much was burned. The problem of training pilots has always been acute, even during the Soviet era, although I don’t know how it is now.
        1. +1
          4 September 2023
          Quote: qqqq
          The problem of training pilots has always been acute, even in the days of the USSR, I really don't know how it is now.

          Before the war, the level of training was so high that more than 700 accidents and plane crashes occurred in a year.
          2 broken aircraft in DAY(!!!)
          1. +4
            4 September 2023
            Quote: your1970
            Before the war, the level of training was so high that more than 700 accidents and plane crashes occurred in a year.
            2 crashed planes per DAY(!!!!!!!!)

            Well, what else do you want from the Air Force, which sit on the ground all summer waiting for fuel, do not have enough training aircraft even to commission new pilots, and even equipped with equipment from factories for which 50% of marriage is a great achievement in the struggle for quality.
            However, there were complaints about the quality of the aircraft even before the mobilization of the NKAP in 1940. Here, for example, is what our advisers wrote about the I-16s that arrived in Spain:
            All the M-25V engines on the arriving planes had a serious defect. Nikolai Glushenkov noted that the M-25A and M-25V engines, which were on the new fighters, failed after 8-12 hours of operation: “The bushing of the main connecting rod is drilled, and the engines fail with all the consequences.” Solidarity with this assessment and the adviser brigade commander A.P. the M-25V motor, which, due to their design and manufacturing shortcomings, turned out to be not hardy enough to work in combat conditions, where they mostly use the full power of the motor ... In a short time, 16 of these new motors failed, and the rest are gradually failing .. ."
            The document, titled “Combat use of the Air Force in the last period of the war in Spain” and which appeared in the bowels of the Red Army Air Force in 1939, sadly states: “In August-September 1938, there were many accidents of new engines. The pilots became afraid to fly on planes with these engines. In each flight, engines were handed over in battle, but there was nothing to replace bad engines. The pilots experienced this very hard, because they knew that some of their comrades died in battle, according to assumptions, only because of the surrender of the engine in battle ""
            © A.Ulanov
            A year and a half passed, the SPV began - and complaints began again, but already on the M-62:
            “The M-62 motor requires fine-tuning, in particular withstanding elevated oil temperatures. It is noticed that if the inlet oil temperature plus 90 degrees Celsius was allowed in flight, the appearance of chips is ensured, and the fighter in an aerial battle can allow this. It is necessary to increase the reliability of the M-62. "
            Chief Engineer of the 7th Army Air Force 2nd level military engineer Koblikov
            Between January 12 and March 13, nineteen M-7 engines were replaced on the I-16 and I-153 aircraft in the 62th Army, all of which were damaged due to manufacturing defects! The most common of these were scoring of the main connecting rod bushings and the appearance of chips in the motor. For comparison, over the same period, M-25 engines were replaced by 29 units, despite the fact that the Air Force of the 7th Army had more vehicles with M-25 than with M-62. Moreover, out of this number, nine engines were replaced due to the depletion of the resource, and four more due to damage received from enemy fire. In total, 46 M-62 engines were out of order during the war in the NWF Air Force, of which only three were repaired by workshops, and another 65 were received from industry. None of the engines were removed due to running out of resources or due to enemy actions. The main reasons were illiterate operation and factory defects.
          2. +2
            4 September 2023
            Quote: your1970
            2 crashed planes per DAY(!!!!!!!!)

            This still speaks of the low quality of the equipment and/or the terrible training of the pilots. Once again, after training, our pilots had an average of 25 hours of flight time, and, as a rule, takeoff and landing, without complex aerobatics. The Germans had more than 200. The use of three aircraft against German pairs, plus more advanced aircraft, was not in our favor. There are no miracles. It is very convenient for management to write off the loss of aviation at airfields, but if you want to prevent this from happening, you need to face the facts.
            1. +1
              4 September 2023
              Quote: qqqq
              This still speaks of the low quality of equipment and (or) the terrible training of pilots. Once again, after the schools, our pilots had an average of 25 hours of flight time, and, as a rule, takeoff and landing, without complicated aerobatics.

              And then the troops were no better. Here are the figures Smushkevich announced at a meeting in December 1940:
              The situation is better in the troops of the Far Eastern Front and the Trans-Baikal District, mainly because they had the ability to give more air raids, having fuel. FEF has a flying time of more than 100 hours per pilot, according to ZabVO - more than 70 hours of flying per pilot, and some internal districts have 35 to 40 hours per pilot. Moreover, on average, such a raid happens from year to year. However, we cannot say now which regiments and squadrons are prepared entirely for operations at night, for operations in the clouds.

              I want to say about the night training, with which we are bad. For example: the entire Leningrad district flew 141 hours on bomber aircraft, that is, what 3 pilots should fly a year. The Oryol district flew only 36 hours, and there is the 51st regiment there, which flew to Belarus in the spring of 1940. This old regiment did not fly a single hour at night. The Transcaucasian Military District is a little better, but even there night training is reduced to almost nothing. The entire district flew only 331 hours at night for bombing.
              © Russian archive: Great Patriotic War. T. 12 (1-2). On the eve of the war. Materials of the meeting of the top leadership of the Red Army on December 23-31, 1940
        2. +3
          4 September 2023
          Quote: qqqq
          To be fair, the bulk of the planes were shot down in the air.
          The bulk of the aircraft simply burned up their resources, dangling in the air. This happened due to the lack of normal communication between aviation and the ground, with troops, and with VNOS posts. Strips of fabric were rolled out on the ground, trying to indicate where to fly. But simply sitting at the airfield and waiting for instructions didn’t work either - we didn’t have time to get anywhere.
        3. +1
          6 September 2023
          Quote: qqqq
          Quote: your1970
          Someone asked Stalin for 22.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX??

          To be fair, the bulk of the planes were shot down in the air. On the ground, by military standards, not much was burned. The problem of training pilots has always been acute, even during the Soviet era, although I don’t know how it is now.

          The bulk of the aircraft after the battles flew closer to the rear due to the rapid advance of the German troops, and there the airfields were clogged with aircraft. bombing and ambush. As a result, there was simply no one to serve the planes and they were abandoned at airfields, where the pedantic Germans counted them, burned them and wrote them down
  11. +9
    4 September 2023
    The most important question is: we have a year and a half going on ... something similar to military operations, called NVO.
    . And there are many such, the most important questions !!!
    And why is one answer spinning in my head - "we were not preparing for this!".
    Let it be for now.
    1. +8
      4 September 2023
      Quote: rocket757
      And why is one answer spinning in my head - "we were not preparing for this!".

      This answer is spinning from the very beginning of the operation.
      1. +8
        4 September 2023
        Which we also started, and not treacherously attacked us at dawn.
        1. +3
          4 September 2023
          And I associate February 1941 more with June 2022, rather than August 2023.
          1. +1
            5 September 2023
            And what do June 1941 and February 2022 have in common? Then the enemy troops crossed our border, and now our enemy; I don’t remember that the soldiers of the Red Army would buy themselves berets and body armor; and the most important thing! they fought with the enemy, but did not trade and did not supply him with oil, gas and metal!
        2. -1
          6 September 2023
          Quote from AdAstra
          Which we also started, and not treacherously attacked us at dawn.

          It’s just that it seems like they started with a hangover. Someone got up with a hangover and kicked. And then he went to a neighbor’s plot to squeeze out
  12. +16
    4 September 2023
    But it's just betrayal and sloppiness I wonder if anyone will answer this? In my opinion, in the current scenario, no one. And if so, then we will continue to step on the same rake. It would seem that after the attack on the Engels airfield, all measures should have been taken to prevent this from happening again, and "it never happened, and here it is again."
    1. +9
      4 September 2023
      Quote: Alexey 1970
      It would seem that after the attack on the Engels airfield, all measures should have been taken

      It seemed. And it turned out as always. Where do we live? About the country of pink ponies, it seems that it was not an invention!
      1. 0
        8 September 2023
        as well as about the fate of Field Marshal and Count von Wallenstein
  13. +2
    4 September 2023
    DRG? Have you considered the option with local or not very local residents, citizens of the Russian Federation, who, for ideological reasons, or for money, launched copters in the immediate vicinity of the airfield? And even if the DRG, where are the organs? There is no NKVD, and what is instead clearly cannot cope. Yes, and the border with the Troebalts is not so far away for the copter, and the Troebalts and Bandera sang on the basis of Nazism.
    1. +1
      4 September 2023
      Quote: Nagan
      There is no NKVD, but what is instead clearly cannot cope

      You don’t want to go back to Russia before you offer the NKVD?
      From afar, it is easier to give advice ...
    2. -4
      4 September 2023
      It surprises me that no one suggests that our well-known, frightened patriots could organize something like this. Pugacheva and Gozman will bring copters and a couple of operators in their limousine, but what will you do for them? They are like angels!
    3. 0
      6 September 2023
      Quote: Nagan
      DRG? Have you considered the option with local or not very local residents, citizens of the Russian Federation, who, for ideological reasons, or for money, launched copters in the immediate vicinity of the airfield? And even if the DRG, where are the organs? There is no NKVD, and what is instead clearly cannot cope. Yes, and the border with the Troebalts is not so far away for the copter, and the Troebalts and Bandera sang on the basis of Nazism.

      Local residents? And they have vast experience in controlling drones...
  14. +20
    4 September 2023
    Re-read your comments from at least five years ago. About "we can repeat."
  15. +20
    4 September 2023
    About 10-12 years ago I read a translated article, one retired Brit broke up, and so he laughed that the planes of the strategists have several countries and only Russia treats them with disregard. Almost everyone is standing in one place, in the event of one blow they are no longer there. At the beginning of the war, a quick transfer is impossible, they take off for a long time, a lot of checks, huge intervals, it’s good if several take off in 25-30 minutes, and for amers they take off at intervals of 300 meters and dozens of airfields !!!! He's right, he doesn't know how.
  16. +1
    4 September 2023
    It’s probably time, at least in the front-line governments of regions and territories, to introduce the post of Minister of War to organize civil defense. People, of course, must have a military education, security clearance, and understand where the threat may come from. Also organize surveillance, checks and raids so that saboteurs and partisans who sympathize with the Armed Forces of Ukraine cannot operate from territories near military units and airfields.
    The military may not like it, but the local authorities should be able to check how they are serving in units in the region, they have not relaxed like in Pskov.
    At least check how the soldiers are shod, dressed and fed. soldier
    1. -2
      4 September 2023
      Quote: V.
      It’s probably time to introduce the post of Minister of War at least in the front-line governments of regions and territories

      We don't have any war. Which frontline governments? The whole country is walking and having fun, senior government officials go on vacation to Turkey and Dubai.
  17. +7
    4 September 2023
    It is necessary to revive the border troops of the FSB and firmly close the border of Russia, otherwise we will not see order, detailed DRGs will simply be "pecked" with frequent and painful blows.
    1. +3
      4 September 2023
      Quote: assault
      It is necessary to revive the FSB border troops and strictly close the Russian border

      Nowadays, saboteurs most often easily enter the country through passport control at the airport. And they leave the same way. Let us remember the murder of Daria Dugina. What kind of border troops are there...
  18. +10
    4 September 2023
    The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, in its usual style, pretends that nothing of the kind happened.

    They don’t worry about this case. After all, no one will be punished or removed. All of them.
    1. -6
      4 September 2023
      Quote: Million
      The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, in its usual style, pretends that nothing of the kind happened.

      They don’t worry about this case. After all, no one will be punished or removed. All of them.

      Who was shot in the Red Army for March 1945(!!!!) in battles near Lake Balaton, when the losses of the advancing Wehrmacht (!!!) were less (!!!) than the losses of the defenders ???
      All their.....
      1. 0
        4 September 2023
        Quote: your1970
        Who in the Red Army was shot in March 1945 (!!!!) in battles near Lake Balaton - when the losses of the attacking Wehrmacht (!!!) were less (!!!) than the losses of the defenders???

        You still remember about Lauban and Bautzen.
        1. +1
          4 September 2023
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Quote: your1970
          Who in the Red Army was shot in March 1945 (!!!!) in battles near Lake Balaton - when the losses of the attacking Wehrmacht (!!!) were less (!!!) than the losses of the defenders???

          You still remember about Lauban and Bautzen.

          Yep ..
          and so I am in the "anti-Soviet" list.
          I don't like double standards...
          The current ones are fighting on tanks that are 50 years old - against the end of the Second World War, when the tanks were brought to mind (almost !!), and anti-tank weapons were current standards were anecdotal. And the current "do not know how, headless, etc." - but the then uuuu ...
          And it’s scary to think about the losses of that time, if the Germans would have finalized their Fausts and Panzershreks to the level of RPG-7. But they have already started work on ATGMs
      2. -1
        6 September 2023
        Quote: your1970
        Quote: Million
        The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, in its usual style, pretends that nothing of the kind happened.

        They don’t worry about this case. After all, no one will be punished or removed. All of them.

        Who was shot in the Red Army for March 1945(!!!!) in battles near Lake Balaton, when the losses of the advancing Wehrmacht (!!!) were less (!!!) than the losses of the defenders ???
        All their.....

        You’re repeating this like a mantra. Apparently you’ve studied the topic. Is it okay that the Germans had more tanks and planes? In addition, there were oncoming battles, and not only on the defensive in the trenches.
    2. AUL
      +5
      4 September 2023
      Quote: Million
      After all, no one will be punished and removed

      And punished, and removed! Strelochnikov.
  19. +5
    4 September 2023
    The author is funny, are you tired of writing about the need to shoot one or the other? Let's turn on the logic, with such reasoning we will reach the removal of whom?)))
    1. -1
      6 September 2023
      Quote from Vincent Price
      The author is funny, are you tired of writing about the need to shoot one or the other? Let's turn on the logic, with such reasoning we will reach the removal of whom?)))

      So maybe we can start right away from that end? Otherwise, one character in WWII also led to the Ipatiev House
  20. 0
    4 September 2023
    In Soviet times, there was not enough materiel to disperse troops. In pursuit of formal numbers, the Soviet industry issued aircraft to the mountain (from 30 to 39 there were 6.5 times more of them), but they scored a little on their provision. After reunification with western Ukraine and Belarus, the Red Army moved to a completely undeveloped territory. And who would build new field airfields? Who would supply them, who would lead them? In the conditions of a logistical catastrophe, the management had to choose the simplest way to concentrate in one place. Another example is the Brest Fortress, which was used as an ersatz barracks for a whole bunch of units.
    Now the situation is similar: Russia inherited the second army in the world from the USSR, which was relocated to new positions. At first, there was no money at all, and when they appeared, they began to spend money not on hangars, but on the purchase of new aircraft. Well, you must admit that a new plane sounds cooler than 10 hangars for old planes. Again, the pursuit of formal indicators with a score on security.
    1. 0
      4 September 2023
      Quote from Escariot
      At first, there was no money at all, and when they appeared, they began to spend money not on hangars, but on the purchase of new aircraft. Well, you must admit that a new plane sounds cooler than 10 hangars for old planes. Again, the pursuit of formal indicators with a score on security.

      did they just become
      Quote from Escariot
      (from 30 to 39 they became in 6.5 times more)
      ?
      1. +1
        4 September 2023
        Quote: Level 2 Advisor

        did they just become
        Quote from Escariot
        30 on 39 year they became 6.5 times more)
        ?

        You are inattentive feel -their really has increased since 1930 on 1939 year
      2. -2
        4 September 2023
        And what's the difference then? We have the capacity to provide a certain number of aircraft, but there are many more aircraft. You need to somehow balance these indicators. In our case, order fewer aircraft and more hangars. It's just that the 2nd largest army in the world requires the second largest economy to serve it. And we have at best (at PPP) 5, and at worst (at face value) 10. From that and the result.
    2. +3
      4 September 2023
      Quote from Escariot
      After reunification with western Ukraine and Belarus, the Red Army moved to a completely undeveloped territory. And who would build new field airfields? Who would supply them, who would lead them? In the conditions of a logistical catastrophe, management had to choose the easiest way to concentrate in one place.

      Hehehehe... is it okay that this logistical disaster was caused by the Air Force itself? More precisely, the 5th Directorate of the Main Directorate of the Air Force, headed by the beginning. management by Filatov. Who, having started the reconstruction of airfields for new aircraft, did everything possible to disrupt the work.
      The construction of airfields was carried out without designs and estimates; the search for sites (and assessment of the possibility of expanding existing airfields) was carried out hastily based on external signs without sufficient study of them. As a result, the selected sites in many cases turned out to be unsuitable for use, but this became clear already at the construction or reconstruction stage.
      During the construction of the Pavlovskoye airfield, when leveling the relief, it was necessary to remove the soil up to 2 meters thick, while nearby was an area with a smaller amount of earthwork.
      Chertanovo airdrome is limited in size to 900x900 and it is not possible to expand [it], since there is a collective farm on one side and a swamp on the other. By the decision of the commission, the construction of the Chertanovo airfield was canceled, but the former. Major General Eremenko, commander of the Air Force Air Defense Ministry, decided to build.
      The Vatulinsky airdrome, measuring 900x900 meters, is 5-6 km from the railway. There are no access roads to the airfield.
      The airfield of the village of Inyukno, 800x800 in size, cannot be expanded further.

      Then a mess began with the distribution of materials:
      5 management of accurate data for planning building materials in the districts did not have, as a result of which their distribution was carried out by eye. So, for the month of October 1940 for the Air Force PribOVO at st. Riga had planned 40 wagons of cement, while according to the application only 12 wagons were required. With the urgent need for oil bitumen for the Odessa Military District 5, the department planned for October only 90 tons, while for the ZAPOVO, which did not require at all, it planned 95 tons.

      The Svessky plant was planned to ship 14 tanks to OdVO, while the Tsnitmash plant directly located in Odessa, according to the allocation, shipped 89 tanks to ZakVO. In turn, in Georgia there is a plant for the production of gasoline tanks.
      1. +1
        4 September 2023
        The construction of airfields was carried out without projects and estimates, the search for sites (and the assessment of the possibility of expanding existing airfields) was carried out hastily according to external signs without sufficient study of them.

        If the then bureaucracy was at least a pale semblance of the current one, then the design and coordination would have been carried out until 1945, even after the start of the war.
        In general, for a long time one of the curses of the country has been a paradoxical combination of extreme formalism with outrageous indifference.
        1. 0
          4 September 2023
          Quote: UAZ 452
          If the then bureaucracy was at least a pale semblance of the current one, then the design and coordination would have been carried out until 1945, even after the start of the war.

          And without a project, the Air Force regularly got into a puddle when it turned out that work should be stopped due to the impossibility of expanding this airfield or its non-compliance with new requirements (in 5 GU they even managed to forget their own Air Force standards for land allocation for new airfields).
          The construction of facilities in such districts as Odessa and the Baltic, was carried out without projects and estimates. Site surveys were carried out hastily according to external signs without sufficient study of them. As a result, the selected sites in many cases turned out to be unsuitable for use as operational airfields and landing sites, and the command of the districts was subsequently forced to abandon them, which led to the waste of public funds and the disruption of the construction plan of facilities.

          ... in July 1940, by order of Major Makeev, the expansion of the Chisinau airfield began without a project and estimates, although it was obvious that its expansion was inexpedient due to the large amount of earthwork. On a number of signals coming from the field about the expulsion of tenants and the preparation of estimates, Makeev did not take any measures until September.
          Only on September 10, 40, a survey was made and estimates were drawn up, on the basis of which, in October 1940, further work to expand the airfield was discontinued as unprofitable. As a result, through the fault of Makeev, about 500 rubles were spent aimlessly.

          Land plots for the construction of operational aerodromes are alienated according to the old standards - 144 hectares, i.e. 1200x1200, while the commissioning of new high-speed aviation requires an increase in the airfield to 1500x1500 plus an approach strip of 150 meters.
    3. +1
      4 September 2023
      And about the hangars before that war: wink
      It should also be noted that the construction of collapsible hangars at stationary airfields due to the fault of the Aerodrome Directorate of the Main Air Force of the KA and KEU of the Red Army is unsatisfactory. In 1939, two hangars were brought to the Chernyshevsky Far East Fields and have not yet been assembled. In 1939, designs were brought to the Moninsky airfield, but so far the hangar has not been assembled. A similar situation in ORVO and Zapovo. Thus, dozens of constructions are made and are in a state of mismanagement, while planes due to the lack of hangars in ZakVO and ArkhVO rot.

      And at this time ....
      ...during the intense period of airfield construction in 1940, a number of senior officials of the 5th Directorate of the Main Directorate of the Air Force K A, headed by the beginning. management Filatov and former. Commissioner, now Deputy Chief. Andreenko's management, were engaged in the construction of their own dachas, using their official position to obtain building materials and spending official time on this.
      © Head of the 2nd Department of the 3rd Directorate of the USSR NGO Captain of State Security Avseevich.

      No wonder that in 1941 the work was given to the NKVD. And they had to organize an assault in order to fulfill the two-year plan in a year. And the planes should be concentrated at large airfields. However, this decision was also caused by problems with supplies and repairs - the rear of the Air Force in the spring-summer of 1941 was experiencing another global reorganization, and the BAO forces were only sufficient to maintain an air regiment at one airfield.
      1. 0
        4 September 2023
        Did they give such leaders a hat? In those harsh times, such tricks must have cost the magicians themselves dearly.
  21. +3
    4 September 2023
    A disassembled copter can be brought to any airfield, even in Vladivostok. It is hardly realistic to hide all aircraft in shelters.
    The problem of attacks on the territory of the Russian Federation can be solved in only one way - to eliminate the very source of attacks.
    1. +1
      4 September 2023
      What is unrealistic about hiding all aircraft in shelters? Metal structures for large aircraft are not impossible, just like concrete hangars for small ones.
    2. 0
      4 September 2023
      The problem of attacks on the territory of the Russian Federation can be solved in only one way - to eliminate the very source of attacks.

      To this end, it is highly desirable to have superiority in the air, and if everything continues as it is now, our aviation will be eliminated before this source.
  22. +7
    4 September 2023
    I’m interested in one question: is there anyone in the Moscow Region, at least in the office of Lieutenant General Konashenkov, perhaps who would read the VO itself, in particular, this article and comments on it?

    Looks like no. Otherwise, at least something would have been taken into account, and measures started to be taken. And not now, but a year and a half ago.

    It seems that only celestials settled in the Moscow Region, who are sure that only they have access to all the secrets of the world, and the plebs in the person of military retirees, of whom there are many in the VO, and a significant part of whom have a higher military education received in Soviet academies, and not in the current their stumps, must sit and silently observe what is happening.

    After the dispersal of the educational and administrative structures of the Moscow Region a la Serdyukov, the consequences of which have to be reaped, it seems that the truly qualified personnel in the Moscow Region have wept.

    There is no liability for such unacceptable oversights. Although no. Maybe there is. Only one that doesn't make any sense.

    Disgrace. No wonder General Kopets was remembered here.
    1. +3
      4 September 2023
      I’m interested in one question: is there anyone in the Moscow Region, at least in the office of Lieutenant General Konashenkov, perhaps who would read the VO itself, in particular, this article and comments on it?
      Looks like no. Otherwise, they would have at least taken note of something and started taking action.

      Be afraid of your desires! If someone at the top really starts reading VO and other similar publications, comments on their publications, then the relevant authorities will actually be required to take measures in the form of initiating cases against those who are not loyal enough (from the point of view of those in power) to the top military-political leadership, allowing indiscriminate (and now any criticism will be declared indiscriminate, fake, etc.) criticism and generally discrediting.
      The last year and a half have already demonstrated to everyone that the system that has developed over the past decades has huge problems with learning and adaptability, reformability, even if there is a direct threat to its very existence.
      1. +2
        4 September 2023
        By the way, this is a Russian tradition - the vast majority of bosses would rather burn down their entire unit than give up even half a step in front of their subordinates
  23. +11
    4 September 2023
    The planes stopped in Pskov, because the Pskov paratroopers are stationed there. And of course the planes should be nearby. Another question is whether airborne troops are needed at all now. Now even saboteurs on parachutes are imperceptibly thrown into the rear of the enemy problematic. Especially from the height of IL-76.
    I understand the base, the barracks, but maybe part of it could have been relocated? By the way, this is not the first attack; combat helicopters were burned there earlier. The saboteurs just calmly approached and set fire to it.
    But it was possible to provide protection from copters without even building shelters. It was night. And the copters were guided manually visually. Once they dropped it right over the plane.

    A. Should have been blackout. Why are military planes white? Have you seen military aircraft in the color of the Soviet Aeroflot in NATO? If they were dark gray, try to see them. And if at this time you turn on a lot of bright mini-projectors up, and even in a cone movement, no operator will see anything on the ground. But the drone can get into the spotlight.
    B. Camouflage nets can not be thrown on a standing plane? Or has no one heard of camouflage nets?
    C. There should be more aircraft parking spaces than there are aircraft, and aircraft should change position regularly. But all places, even empty ones, should also be masked with nets on spacers and maybe even inflatable mock-ups.
    What is expensive and difficult? Or just too lazy to think about security?
    D. There are more advanced laser jammers that can also blind drone cameras. They were invented a long time ago and do not cost exorbitant amounts of money.
    D. At the time of the attack, satellite navigation and communications jammers must be turned on. But this, apparently, was not at the airport.
    In general, everything is as always. They say it will pass, it won’t touch us. Well, like that landing ship in the port of Novorossiysk, when the drone calmly entered its side without any opposition. While everyone was resting and relaxing.
    1. +1
      4 September 2023
      Quote: Oleg Ogorod
      B. Camouflage nets can not be thrown on a standing plane? Or has no one heard of camouflage nets?

      Set of masksets for meager in terms of size, MI-8 is occupied by KAMAZ, according to the standard, shelter is 1 hour.
      Now imagine what you need to cover 2 5-storey(!!!) standing perpendicular each other is 1 IL-76.
      The same trouble with parking lots - airfields that allow the IL-76 to take off from them throughout the country are very few, 20 pieces ....
      And the same thing with shelters - this is not for the SU / MIG zipper, this is a BUILDING of a large area. Which from space will still be perfectly visible ....
      1. +3
        4 September 2023
        A large building or metal structure can and will be visible from space, but it is impossible to see if there is an aircraft there. The canopy is not only protection from small drones, but also a ready-made camouflage.
      2. +2
        4 September 2023
        "Now imagine that you need to cover 2 5-storey buildings (!!!) standing perpendicular to each other - this is 1 IL-76"
        Well? an impossible task? given that these silts are not used every day. covered with nets in a couple of days, slowly, carefully, and sleep peacefully for the whole month
        1. 0
          5 September 2023
          Quote: ZloyKot
          These sludges are not used every day. covered with nets in a couple of days, slowly, carefully, and sleep peacefully for the whole month

          During this couple of days you will be photographed ten times from a satellite. Then they will also post an animation: “this is how the Russians are trying to hide the plane with mask nets.”
          1. +1
            5 September 2023
            "You will be photographed from a satellite ten times in this couple of days"
            yes at least 100 times. but it will not be known whether there is a plane under the net or not, especially if there are a couple more nets of nets laughing
            1. -2
              5 September 2023
              Quote: ZloyKot
              yes at least 100 times. but it will not be known whether there is a plane under the net

              Do you think that when the plane is covered with a net, the plane itself is not visible?

              No, you can, of course, make a kind of giant tent from a mask net, into which you can roll up and roll out the IL-76. But the price of such a tent, and even without a support in the middle, will be quite comparable to a normal hangar.
              1. +1
                6 September 2023
                "Do you think when a plane is covered with a net, the plane itself is not visible?"
                that's right, the maskset is visible from above, and not what is under it
              2. 0
                8 September 2023
                what pole? - and if there are 4 poles around the perimeter with cables crosswise from the tops - and attach a net to these cables? - in this case, you can simply lift the net laid out on the ground in blocks, like on flagpoles, up to the cables and stretch it - what’s the problem?
              3. 0
                12 September 2023
                Is it cheaper than a new plane (of which, as it turns out, there is already a shortage)?
  24. +4
    4 September 2023
    What should you pay attention to when looking at images from cameras of enemy satellites? On the traces of UAV charges detonation on the upper part of the fuselage of two unburned aircraft.

    I would like to see these photos in the illustration, and not the epic burned-out planes. Comparison with June 1941 is already too much. The purpose of the article is to push for a solution to the problem, or to raise a tantrum demanding executions? If the author thinks that this is the same thing, then it is clear why he expresses his opinion here, and not in the circle of decision makers.
    Regarding preventive measures, robotic machine-gun systems that close the perimeter seem more promising than concrete structures on the scale of the Egyptian pyramids and in large numbers. It's not about funding, it's about time. Although the bunkers are certainly good. Who is arguing.
  25. +9
    4 September 2023
    Yes, you can think of many ways to protect yourself, the best of which would be the immediate removal from their posts of commanders of units that allow you to place the military equipment entrusted to them like this.

    The problem is not with the unit commanders, but with the system. To make hangars requires money, but they don’t really like to give it. Send for dispersal at other airfields, but it is not the unit commander who decides. For example, but from a different sphere - the sphere of education. Working at an educational institution (OU), we have ideas about installing magnetic locks on all entrances / exits, in case of a fire they open themselves, and when attacked by a signal from the remote control, they close (such an idea appeared long before the attack on schools). Well, to the heap, surround the guard’s place with armored glass. With such an idea, we go to the local Ministry of Education (Minobr), but it is more important for the Ministry of Education to cancel the issuance of free milk in educational institutions, since not all children drink and the money is allocated inappropriately in their opinion. By the way, they promised to use the money that was for milk for safety, but for the past 2 years we have been waiting for the money to be allocated for safety. Although, when there was an attack, it seemed like a stormy activity began, letters were written to the OU that we needed to improve security and so on. As a result, they allocated for the purchase of new video surveillance cameras to replace the failed ones (by the way, which we have also been waiting for a very long time, since dead zones appeared around the perimeter of the OS) and that's it. Don’t let anything happen, and after all, all the dogs will be thrown onto the employees of the OS, because we didn’t provide security, overlooked it, worked it out poorly. And so I know everywhere, in any lower-level government agency.
  26. +14
    4 September 2023
    It is very stupid to lose such expensive equipment as aircraft, simply because unit commanders do not fulfill their official duties and display the aircraft as if they were on parade.

    Yeah! Let's blame it on the last one.
    The commander will take the money out of his pocket and easily build a steel hangar. Or concrete. Which are more expensive than a talking horse.
    Are there many children of oligarchs among the commanders of flight units?
    Even the commander himself will not be able to change the layout of the aircraft. Or repaint the plane. This is not La-5.
    Everything has become clear about drones and airfields in Syria. About 7 years ago.
    You could ask everyone’s adored Surovikin about this. Just since 2017. VKS commanded.
    And about 1941 we must remember carefully. In the Odessa Military District, early. Headquarters, General Zakharov bent the commander of aviation district Michugin and forced to prepare aviation in accordance with the instructions of the NPO and the General Staff. Which were given much earlier than June 21. The aviation commander resisted, but Zakharov insisted. As a result, this aviation commander, one of the commanders of the western districts, did not go on the "pilot case" and remained alive. And aviation fought well, and the front showed itself in a completely different way than the south-west front of Kirponos. Did Michugin thank Zakharov? For the fact that he remained alive and got the opportunity to fight for the Motherland and even make some career. Although they used it very carefully, remembering that if it were not for Zakharov, the OdVO aviation would also have disappeared in the first days of the war.
    And after the war Zakharov became the beginning. GSH. If there had been such Zakharovs in the other districts, then the war would have turned out differently.
    And now we have many such Zakharovs?...
    Does Surovikin have a report in the stash for the beginning. The General Staff or the Ministry of Defense with the requirement to provide protection to aircraft at airfields, which (report) was rejected by the General Staff or higher? That is the question ...
    1. +1
      4 September 2023
      But did the unit commander have a plan for attacking drones? And did it work? Was there a report to the top, where he proposed measures to protect aircraft? I think such questions have already been asked by the military prosecutor's office. And I think the commander and deputies got it.
      Although for the life of me I don’t understand why military cargo planes are white? It is clear that this question is not for the commander of the unit, but for the command of the VKS. As well as the question of what the command did to protect military aircraft throughout the country. Or was no one in the command of the Aerospace Forces responsible for this at all and did not think about it? Wasn't there such a task?
      1. +4
        4 September 2023
        But did the unit commander have a plan for a drone attack?

        We're talking about the army. Any plan must be supported by technical means. And the General Staff should take care of them. If they are not there, you can write as much as you like.
        Me in 1985-87. was a company commander in a construction battalion. And I remember well how we were strained to fight for a sober lifestyle and for statutory relationships.
        Every step is written out. God forbid we say that we are fighting against hazing. “Are you crazy?” (in fact, the vocabulary was different), “Where does hazing come from in the Soviet army?” Each barracks should have a stand with five tablets. The first one says about this, the second one about that, where and what drawings. What, you don’t know how to draw? Cut from the press and glue. Can't write beautifully? Bullshit, the main thing is that it exists!
        If the General Staff does not develop measures to combat UAVs and create shelters for aircraft, you can at least write yourself, there will be no point. The drones themselves can be purchased by subscription with the help of the people. Where can I get electronic warfare equipment? Building materials in industrial quantities? How can you build something at a military airfield without changing the plan developed at some military research institute? They will drive you into the ground up to your shoulders. Just in case, so as not to answer ourselves (if anything).
      2. +3
        4 September 2023
        Although for the life of me I don’t understand why military cargo planes are white?

        One of the measures (provided for by the instructions of the NGO and the General Staff) in June 41, which Zakharov forced Michugin to do, was to repaint the fuel tanks from white to protective color.
        In peacetime they were painted white to prevent overheating. A few days before the war they were repainted and/or covered with tarpaulin. And then, at one airfield (according to Pokryshkin’s recollections) they left it white. As a result, the Germans immediately burned the fuel.
        Why were our planes left white? I'm afraid to even guess. Maybe so that the Americans don’t stress too much?
      3. +1
        5 September 2023
        Quote: Oleg Ogorod
        But did the unit commander have a plan for attacking drones? And did it work? Was there a report to the top, where he proposed measures to protect aircraft? I think such questions have already been asked by the military prosecutor's office. And I think the commander and deputies got it.
        Although for the life of me I don’t understand why military cargo planes are white? It is clear that this question is not for the commander of the unit, but for the command of the VKS. As well as the question of what the command did to protect military aircraft throughout the country. Or was no one in the command of the Aerospace Forces responsible for this at all and did not think about it? Wasn't there such a task?

        After the second explosion of the Crimean bridge, the same questions were asked =)))
  27. exo
    +1
    4 September 2023
    Long-term shelters for strategists and VTA aircraft are not the best idea. Taking into account the warhead that UAVs currently flying in, there are enough metal meshes or structures like visors on equipment. Plus electronic warfare equipment. Larger UAVs must be destroyed by air defense systems.
    1. +3
      4 September 2023
      I saw a good budget shelter in Gostomel. There was a hell of a lot. Once the mria climbed in, then the silt will fit in. It won’t save you from hail, but I hope we don’t have hail drg around the country yet.
    2. 0
      4 September 2023
      Quote: exo
      Taking into account the warhead that currently flying UAVs operate, metal meshes or structures similar to canopies on equipment are sufficient.

      It is today. No one knows what they will fly with tomorrow. Metal meshes are perfectly pierced by a “shock core”, which is not difficult to install on a not very large copter.
      1. -1
        5 September 2023
        "Metal grids break through perfectly"
        first you need to see what is under this grid
        1. 0
          5 September 2023
          Quote: ZloyKot
          first you need to see what is under this grid

          Or just shoot in the middle.
    3. 0
      5 September 2023
      The guards will be given multi-shot hunting barrels with shot for ducks. Or it's time to switch up weapons that fire shotguns. Lots of damaging elements. They shoot at clay pigeons, why not drones?
      1. +1
        6 September 2023
        Only you need solid shot, not just lead shot. Or even need cartridges with flechettes.
  28. +4
    4 September 2023
    The drones did not come in a crowd, one at a time,

    Hmm ... If we consider that a good operator is a piece of goods, then the following picture emerges: local, 2-3 qualified operators and "workers" on the hook, who ensure the preparation and launch of drones, were launched. They brought it in small batches, even disassembled, assembled it on the spot and flew off.
    1. 0
      5 September 2023
      Quote: Not the fighter
      launched by local, 2-3 qualified operators and “workers” on hand to ensure the preparation and launch of drones

      Actually, all this could have been done by one person. Program the drones to fly along a route, launch them one after the other, and take control one by one when they approach the target.
  29. -1
    4 September 2023
    Shooting down drones is difficult. Therefore they should not be launched!
    But that's a slightly different story
  30. SNA
    -1
    4 September 2023
    Quote: your1970
    Quote: Million
    The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, in its usual style, pretends that nothing of the kind happened.

    They don’t worry about this case. After all, no one will be punished or removed. All of them.

    Who was shot in the Red Army for March 1945(!!!!) in battles near Lake Balaton, when the losses of the advancing Wehrmacht (!!!) were less (!!!) than the losses of the defenders ???
    All their.....

    Where does the data come from, you liar?
    1. 0
      4 September 2023
      https://znanierussia.ru/articles/Балатонская_оборонительная_операция#Потери_сторон
      Balaton defensive operation

      In the period from March 6 to March 15, the enemy lost 130 tanks and assault guns in minefields laid by mobile barrier detachments; during the offensive, the Wehrmacht lost over 27 thousand people, a significant number of armored personnel carriers and vehicles.

      Intense battles with superior enemy forces became a difficult test for the Soviet troops. Reflecting the powerful blows of tank and infantry groups, showing unsurpassed courage and heroism, they lost 32 people, of which 899 were killed, dead or missing.
    2. 0
      4 September 2023
      The liar didn’t even delve into the balance of power at Lake Balaton, apparently. What kind of equipment did both sides have, etc.
  31. +7
    4 September 2023
    It is not entirely clear what the commanders of the units have to do with it, the hangars cost money, or are all personnel thrown into the hangars, both for operations for children and for providing troops of the Russian Federation?
  32. -1
    4 September 2023
    Do they do it from the country?
    And I have long believed that the country should be closed. Here, in fact, as in Syria, only Syria has been occupied for 10 years, and Russia for 30 years.
    1. -1
      4 September 2023
      Quote from new.ad
      Do they do it from the country?
      And I have long believed that the country should be closed. Here, in fact, as in Syria, only Syria has been occupied for 10 years, and Russia for 30 years.

      Or maybe you are that partisan who fights against the occupiers, blowing up planes and helicopters in their parking areas?
  33. +3
    4 September 2023
    To official duties it is necessary to give material support (money, materials, contracts, air defense forces, etc.).
    Then you can demand from the boss.
  34. +1
    4 September 2023
    Quote: 224VP_MO_RF
    It is not entirely clear what the commanders of the units have to do with it, the hangars cost money, or are all personnel thrown into the hangars, both for operations for children and for providing troops of the Russian Federation?

    If you collect it, they will steal it and take it out to Mr. Nosaks. The country is a passage yard! You need entry/exit visas, etc.
  35. +2
    4 September 2023
    So it was and, unfortunately, so it will be. Saved only severe punishment.
  36. -1
    4 September 2023
    Let me remind you that a disaster occurred with the Red Army aviation only in the Western Special Military District. (All other border districts fought back perfectly that day and did not suffer any monstrous aircraft losses). And in this same ZAPOVO the ground troops were exposed to attack, to surprise. (as the saying goes: coincidence? don't think...) As it turned out later, the command of this district (a dozen generals - from the district commander to the chiefs of communications, district aviation, etc.) became very friendly with the German General Staff and were preparing for the arrival of their new masters. But the first to come to them were not their German friends, but NKVD officers. With a natural result - trial and execution. True, later it became fashionable to call them “innocent victims of Stalin’s repressions”... Oh, how those very fair Stalinist measures are now lacking...
    1. 0
      6 September 2023
      And the actions of Soviet aviation in the Leningrad direction. She survived. The big bosses remembered about its existence only a week after June 22
  37. +2
    4 September 2023
    If the drones were launched by saboteurs from the vicinity of the airfield (and I am also inclined to this version), then the questions for the FSB, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Russian Guard are simply indecently huge. If saboteurs with drones and explosives roam freely around Russia, then where can they strike tomorrow? In some places we have missiles with nuclear warheads driving along forest roads...
  38. +3
    4 September 2023
    I add furiously. In one article they write that several new aircraft were built in a year, in another that two were lost overnight. Expensive. Workers. In a year and a half, it was possible to build a frame and stretch a fine-mesh chain-link. At least damn it! Though from guan and sticks! These are pennies compared to the cost of the aircraft.
    And further. I don't believe that anyone will be punished. Brother, matchmaker, godfather, friend, etc. Here from the budget, new money for new aircraft - that's pzhalsta! Therefore, the same bridge is blown up twice in our country and the planes in the parking lots are burned many times. Walking on a rake is a national pastime.
  39. +2
    5 September 2023
    Quote: saigon
    The question is, who was put against the wall behind the transport boards standing next to the border

    And who in general was put up against the wall from the beginning of the NWO?
    And given that they were not even removed from their posts, it is foolish to expect any improvements.
  40. 0
    5 September 2023
    At the end of the article, the fault of the regimental commanders was immediately determined. There is no fault of the commander that he could not cover the planes. Well, he doesn't have that kind of money. And there is no need to compare the size of tactical aircraft and huge transport workers and long-range ones. Find at least one example of cover for B-1B, B-52, C-5, C-17 and others. That's right - they don't exist. The issue is resolved by dispersing the aircraft and sending them away from the LBS or the border.
    1. +1
      6 September 2023
      The US had no cover because the aircraft's bases were beyond the enemy's reach. And any large aircraft can easily be covered with nets. The unit commander must think about the need for shelters. Then, on command, convey your proposals, and in writing. This is what Rokosovsky did when Konev ordered him to take command of the troops in an area in which, in Rokosovsky’s opinion, there were no such troops. This written order saved Rokosovsky from execution.
  41. 0
    5 September 2023
    Quote from alexoff
    By the way, about Galkin. Do you know that he has a brother? Do you know what he does?

    ..his “enterprise” is involved in the production of armored personnel carriers .. (it may not be written correctly .. but the meaning is the same)
  42. 0
    5 September 2023
    In my opinion, everyone hoped for electronic warfare equipment, and if the drone flew by, they didn’t cooperate, which means this is something new in the UAV radio control, which they can’t track yet, and this is more serious than just the absence of a hangar - after all, such UAVs can appear anywhere unnoticed for electronic intelligence equipment available to Russia.
  43. 0
    5 September 2023
    Well, let's think (if there is something to think about, of course). The commander does not organize the construction of hangars himself. This is a complex task. Here we are talking about urgent orders for the production of components for hangars and the hangars themselves. We must not forget the gates, which did not exist before, because... drones, and even those launched from close range. Why others and not your own traitors? Is the drg not supported by any residents? And we come again to the state of society. And if Skomorokhov cannot influence the change of command staff with his publications, then he can influence people like him who read his works. The question is not that the protection and security of aircraft and more is not organized enough for modern conditions. Definitely poorly organized! What are you trying to achieve by publishing your articles? Just to raise your rating, or to bring some other benefit?
  44. 0
    5 September 2023
    This is criminal sloppiness. There are no other words. Just a shame.
  45. +1
    5 September 2023
    Pokryshkin wrote in his memoirs that when he took off, he saw that the fuel storage tanks were painted white on top to reduce fuel evaporation.
    What is happening now is more reminiscent of the 40th, rather than the 41st, Finnish one.
  46. 0
    5 September 2023
    "Although, you know, let's make a small historical digression again.
    Why were so many Soviet planes destroyed on the ground on June 22?"

    How many?
    On June 22, there were 300 airfields with combat aircraft in our western districts.
    According to German data, 22 (twenty-six) airfields were attacked on June 26.
    According to German data, just over 22 Soviet aircraft were destroyed on June 300.
    According to our data (whatever that means), on June 22 we lost up to 1.200 aircraft, of which about 800 were on the ground.
    In the history of wars in the air, there was no case when one side declared its victories, and the opposite side tripled these victories and even multiplied them by four.
    Usually the opposite is true, the victors destroyed in their reports two to three times more enemy than was actually destroyed. This rule always worked for all countries.
    Except for one exception. 22nd of June...
    What is this mystery?
    After all, on June 22, Soviet airfields did not seem to be captured yet ...
    But there is another mystery.
    Much has been written above about the accident rate of the Soviet Air Force. She went wild...
    What about statistics and reports?
    According to reports on the eve of the war, the accident rate of the Soviet Air Force was the lowest in the world.
    How low?
    One and a half times lower than the accident rate of France, Germany or Britain, whose accident rate was approximately the same.
    Conclusion:
    There were accidents. Soviet commanders hid small and medium-sized accidents. The damaged aircraft were written off on 22 June.
    If this hypothesis is superimposed on the loss of pilots on June 22, then the picture will be confirmed ...

    It was not necessary for Comrade Stalin before the war to organize a campaign for accident-free operation.
    Because of this campaigning, not only a bunch of planes ended up in the shade, not only flight training suffered, but a bunch of flight commanders were removed (and some were shot)
    1. -1
      5 September 2023
      The commanders have some kind of special way of thinking, they certainly need everything to be like in a parade in order of ranking along the line and preferably assembled in one place, and it doesn’t matter the battery of guns in a row, the planes on the lane in a row, warships at the berths or soldiers in one barracks (it’s obviously so convenient to count three times a day) and that they would certainly go in formation, although the generals themselves don’t go in formation, or maybe they have some kind of special reality that is not known to us ordinary people. And, but we don’t understand
    2. -1
      5 September 2023
      Our aviation on the eve of the war was distinguished by the fact that aircraft usually had a low life resource, especially new models and especially engines. Yes, and the aircraft factories of the USSR were young with workers who were not always highly qualified. This led to increased accidents. Yes, and the combat experience of the Luftwaffe pilots was much more, especially since they had a raid much more than our pilots. And the German Messerschmidt was much better than most of our aircraft and, with a much longer life cycle.
  47. The comment was deleted.
  48. 0
    5 September 2023
    Quote: Mikhail Krivopalov
    And what do June 1941 and February 2022 have in common? Then the enemy troops crossed our border, and now our enemy; I don’t remember that the soldiers of the Red Army would buy themselves berets and body armor; and the most important thing! they fought with the enemy, but did not trade and did not supply him with oil, gas and metal!

    "The Polish campaign of the Red Army (in Soviet historiography, the liberation campaign of the Red Army, in Polish historiography, the USSR invasion of Poland) is a military operation of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army in the eastern regions of the Polish Republic, which was carried out from September 17 to October 5, 1939 and entailed the annexation of these territories to Ukrainian and Byelorussian SSR (as Western Ukraine and Western Belarus, respectively) and to the Republic of Lithuania (part of the Vilna Territory)"
  49. +1
    5 September 2023
    only the lazy did not declare betrayal, but things are still there, what would that mean? - maybe there, who steers and on whom the execution of these simple decisions depends on ensuring the safety of equipment and the lives of soldiers, such traitors are desirable? - to whom and why ? is a big unsolvable riddle! Whoever screamed about it on the air from big and prominent, and important, and respected by the people of the people, but nothing is moving, it's scary, and ashamed of Great Russia and it hurts for the dying soldiers due to the slovenliness of commanders and those responsible for the safety of equipment and the preservation of military personnel, they could survive and be in the ranks, but these losses are sweet to someone? what is going on ??? and these tragedies occur only on an increasing basis, no conclusions are drawn on the ground?
    1. 0
      7 September 2023
      Some of the military commanders just play politics, and do not work. What are they confusing up there
  50. +1
    6 September 2023
    Excellent stuff. Everything is correct and nothing changes. Maybe what happened will force something to change in terms of security.
  51. +1
    6 September 2023
    Party activists should not be allowed to control the army... the lessons of 1941 are not taken into account in 2023
  52. The comment was deleted.
  53. 0
    7 September 2023
    The author’s sense of proportion lets him down, depending on what to compare the losses with. Does the author know how much money will be spent on restoring Primorye, which sank once again unexpectedly as always - billions of rubles. So what, the machine prints money, the factories rivet weapons day and night, Soviet reserves There will be more than enough for two more such wars, elections will soon be on everyone’s nose. So the author does not need to exaggerate so much and scare our already timid population of the country. More faith in our strengths and optimism.
  54. 0
    9 September 2023
    The material is correct, but the conclusion...
    It is very stupid to lose such expensive equipment as aircraft, simply because unit commanders do not fulfill their official duties and display the aircraft as if they were on parade.
    Not really.
    Shelters for airplanes are good and correct. I think they have nothing to do with the unit commander. This is capital construction, for which the unit commander has neither money nor construction capacity. If you order us to build economically, I declare a cleanup day for the flight crew? This is just not serious. Incl. The questions are not for the unit commanders, but higher up. Much higher.
  55. 0
    12 September 2023
    But admit it honestly, did any of you, a year and a half ago, realize/raise the question of organizing aviation protection?

    Comrade officers, to be honest, has it just dawned on you that we need to protect the planes?
    It also just dawned on the top military leadership.
  56. 0
    13 September 2023
    Quote: Boris Sergeev
    In 1996, Zyuganov was elected president. Medvedev D.A. will not let you lie.


    That's right!
    Only Zyu crawled on his knees to the drunk Borka, and begged in snot and tears to accept power for another term.
    Why?
    Because Zyu is a pathetic nonentity, a political eunuch.
    He has nothing to do with the Bolsheviks and real communists.
    Those old-school Bolsheviks were cutting throats for power!
    They fought for power, standing knee-deep in the blood of their enemies.
    Zyu, like his lip-slap son, are eunuchs who sold out to Eat Russia.

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