"Three Axes" - isn't the content overrated?

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"Three Axes" - isn't the content overrated?

It is clear that on our pages, speaking of the “Three Axes”, we mean by no means a well-known drink of the past and not a parody of it today.

We are talking about the American M777 howitzer.



"The highly maneuverable and powerful M777 should overcome Russia's significant heavy artillery"


It has already become customary for us to discuss everything that is supplied by NATO countries to the Armed Forces of Ukraine. It is no less interesting when those who supply weapons themselves look at how their equipment works in real combat conditions.

This is such a normal military analytics, if, of course, it is done normally.

For example, back in (or not so) 2019, eight researchers from the Pentagon-paid Rand Corporation research group published a report detailing a frightening scenario that seemed increasingly likely: a Russian invasion of countries NATO's Baltics - Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania - which escalates into a major war as Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty provokes a full military response from the US and other partner countries. Ground losses in such a confrontation would be devastating, the authors wrote, and NATO victory is far from certain, at least not without unacceptable losses.

Today, this alignment looks like a rather creepy fairy tale for the night, and even then ... Although nothing threatened these countries, it does not threaten. But is there anything to be afraid of?

Now, central to the report's findings was the grim respect enjoyed by Russian artillery, from the BM-300 Smerch 30mm multiple launch rocket system to Russia's impressive and numerous 152S2 Msta-S 19mm howitzers.


On this battlefield, U.S. Army artillery will need to outnumber the Russians by at least two to one to ensure that the allies gain systemic, positional, and force advantages that can enable them to defeat Russian ground forces and win the conflict.

But these are calculations, and it is not forecasts that are fighting, but guns. One of the best American opponents of Russian guns is the M777 howitzer. While it can't match the range of its competitors, it makes up for it with agility, precision and reliability. This is what the American specialized media say, but today there is something to object to them precisely on the fact of application.

Yes, with almost two decades of service in war zones around the world, the M777 proves the relevance of mobile artillery on the modern battlefield. And in this regard, "Three Axes" is impressive.


As for the range, or rather, the total superiority of Russian artillery systems in this regard, the Americans are not only exaggerating, but cunning: they need to be shown what a formidable enemy they can fight against. In fact, the Msta-S shoots at the same 30 km as the M777. Yes, ours is an ordinary projectile, and the Three Axes is an aerodynamically improved ERFB. And Excalibur flies for all 40 km, significantly ahead of the Russian Krasnopol in this regard.

The Americans admit that artillery played a significant role in the attack on Mariupol, and the Armed Forces of Ukraine could not oppose the Russian artillerymen who were setting up fire shafts. Ukrainian artillery, which was mainly represented by Soviet systems, significantly inferior both in quality and quantity to the Russian side, could not offer significant resistance.

Great hopes in the Armed Forces of Ukraine were placed on the supply of Western artillery systems, including the American M777. In the first tranche, 126 M777 howitzers were delivered to Ukraine from the United States, along with approximately 200 rounds, in two separate aid packages worth $000 million.

"Three axes" hit Ukraine. In May of this year, the Minister of Defense of Ukraine Reznikov wrote on his Facebook that he had a lot of feedback on the use of the M777 and "... the lion's share of these reviews are extremely positive".

At the forefront of all who praise the M777, put the maneuverability caused by the frankly low weight of the howitzer. Indeed, 4 kg versus 200 for Msta-B is a lot. "Three sevens" is really easier to be towed and transported by planes and helicopters if necessary. Of course, getting stuck with a four-ton howitzer on a trailer in the conditions of the Ukrainian autumn is much more difficult than with a howitzer that weighs seven tons. But there are some nuances here, which are discussed below.

The American gun has another important advantage: in addition to its low weight, it has a short deployment time and, of course, folding. Well-trained calculations can complete these processes in about three minutes of deployment and two minutes of collapse.


In counter-battery combat, where cannon crews work to “shoot and run,” that is, send projectiles at a target and then race to a new location before enemy radars determine their targeting position, mobility and speed are critical. Three minutes is a very good time.

"Artillery is calculations, speed and racing with everyone else", says Philip Ety, a former member of the M777 crew of the Marine Corps.

Indeed, the key to success is precisely to quickly move into position, quickly turn around, shoot at targets as quickly as possible, curl up and leave before the enemy reacts.

Plus, another important fact: an artillery gun is capable of firing much more shells than MLRS. This path will require the return of all the forces of the calculation, but unlike the MLRS, the gun does not have such a long reload. And in some cases, it is the ability to fire 200 or more shells at the enemy that plays a very important role.

The battle for artillery supremacy between the M777 and its Russian adversaries is shaping the face of the war in Ukraine. Almost exactly as the Rand researchers predicted. And their gloomy warnings proved prophetic: Russia's heavy artillery, with its large number of guns and range, is a formidable adversary.

CBO has shown that modern combat, in which there are Robots, homing missiles, UAVs with artificial intelligence, network-centric control techniques - a complex process. In this regard, the artillery looks somewhat archaic. More precisely, she is trying to get away from the canons of the Middle Ages with all her might, but changes in artillery are not so fast.

At least in terms of meaning, a modern howitzer and a cannon differ in much the same way as their predecessors 200 years ago. Cannons still shoot mainly direct fire, howitzers (the name comes from the German word Haubitze - slingshot) shoot from closed positions in a high arc. The range of the howitzer allows you to shoot at targets that are far beyond the line of sight.

Of course, since their appearance, howitzers have gone through a pretty decent evolutionary path, and if we take the same USA, then from the first army howitzer, which is recognized as a 12-pound mountain howitzer, to the M777, the path was long and very fruitful.

Increasing the size, range, and mobility of field artillery has not significantly altered its value on the battlefield: these large guns remain most effective when enemies are fighting behind clear front lines, or when forces are launching a combat campaign or "shock and awe" invasion. Those who want to pinpoint the recent pinnacle of US field artillery may look to February 1991, during Operation Desert Storm, when more than 350 pieces of artillery weapons US armies pounded Iraqi positions, frustrating counterattacks and helping to secure a quick victory. And finally provided.


In the two decades that followed these battles, howitzers took a backseat as the US shifted its focus to counter-insurgency efforts during the protracted war in Afghanistan and ongoing fighting in Iraqi cities. There, such weapons were not particularly needed.

Between 2003 and 2016, according to the authors of the Rand report, Army field artillery training and readiness atrophied as the service reduced its active field artillery battalions by almost half, from 96 to 50. It was at the beginning of this reduction, in 2005, that the US Army used the M777 in combat for the first time, and it will be another ten years before the artillery can prove its full combat value.

Russia, on the other hand, has never reduced its investment in artillery.


The armies of today's Russia have history the use of artillery in combat, which dates back to the fourteenth century. For several hundred years, Russian artillery has turned into just a wonderful percussion instrument of the Second World War, which provides infantry and tanks, allowed Soviet troops to break through any enemy defense.

"The trademark Soviet step for a large-scale offensive in the Great Patriotic War was a massive artillery shelling"
, says Scott Boston, Senior Defense Analyst at Rand Corporation and co-author of the 2019 Russian Aggression Report. Boston is a former US Army field artillery officer whose research includes an analysis of the capabilities of Russian artillery.

"When the Soviet Union launched a successful attack on Berlin in 1945, it deployed about 375 guns and mortars for every kilometer of the front."



The start of the JMD in Ukraine frankly shocked Western observers and highlighted the power of Russian artillery weapons, which are said to have accounted for 80 percent of casualties in combat.

“The Russian army has deployed a large number of guns and rocket launchers at the level of brigade and battalion tactical groups. Combined with growing, multifaceted targeting and reconnaissance capabilities, Russian artillery is a formidable potential adversary.”


Countering this adversary is a challenge for the M777 and its crews. But there is evidence that the howitzer can succeed due to its speed, accuracy and maneuverability. After years of firing mostly flare rounds in Afghanistan to eliminate insurgents in the mountains, the M777 has taken on a prominent combat role in the fight against ISIS for the first time. In 2017, US troops fought a battle to retake the city of Raqqa, one of the terrorist group's last remaining strongholds.

U.S. Marine Corps artillery was stationed there, the main task of which was to provide fire support to ground forces that entered the city for close combat. For five months, one Marine battery fired indirect fire at ISIS positions in and around the city, firing more than 35 rounds. Two of the six barrels were completely disabled due to overuse.


By comparison, the Marine Corps Times reported that during the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the entire US military fired about 34 000mm shells. The battle proved what a tremendous effect a small artillery contingent can have if it is well supplied and skillfully led.

Actually - not so much. Just use a calculator and divide 35 shots by 000 months. It turns out 5 shots per month. Next, 7 shots are divided into 000 battery barrels. 7 rounds per barrel. Per month. Well, then everything is simple: 000 shots per day, 6 shots per hour. Well, or 1 shots in 167 hours.

Honestly - well, don't sweat it. Even with changes in positions. It is clear that the battery did not shoot so evenly, but nevertheless. In general, the M777 is recommended precisely in order not to “shoot” the barrels, to fire no more than 5 rounds per minute, followed by a break for cooling.

By the way, Canada in June 2022 undertook to supply Ukraine with 10 replacement barrels for M777 howitzers instead of worn ones. That is, they shoot from the heart. In general, according to the specification, the barrel of the M777 should be replaced after 2500 shots have been fired. However, cases of accelerated barrel wear have already been recorded in Ukraine - four barrel replacements for 6 shots.

Not a very pleasant figure, which indicates that instead of the declared 2 shots at an accelerated pace, the M500 fires no more than 777. A big minus against the background of pluses is that the gun should fire when it is necessary, and not according to the instructions.

Cases of barrel rupture and breakage of other parts and mechanisms of howitzers were also recorded. Moreover, it took on a rather massive character, and in order to repair the damage, it was necessary to create a repair base in Poland, which indicates a decent amount of these damages.

"Crystal Hammer"? Quite possible.


And this, sorry, for barrels made of Ti6AI4V alloy. The barrels must last at least 20 years and, according to the standards, fire at least 900 rounds in a day's operation.

The howitzers originally had full-metal barrels, but were upgraded with full-barrel chrome tubes in the mid-2010s. These tubes limited the build-up of residual combustion charge inside the gun, and this upgrade is said to have extended their life by as much as 300 percent. Then the question arises as to how intensive use, for example, in a protracted artillery duel in Ukraine, can render the gun barrel unusable?

In fact, 900 shots a day is again not so much! This is 37,5 shots per hour or 1 shot in a minute and a half!

Well, God knows what a load, right? So, in the hands of Ukrainian calculations, the M777 fired significantly more shells than the documentation recommended?

Yes!

And the Americans themselves admit it!


In general, M777 howitzers use a digital fire control system, which allows you to accurately aim at the target using computer tablets. But the howitzers sent from the United States to Ukraine did not include these computer systems due to fears that they would fall into the hands of the Russian military.

According to American instructors, the guns delivered to Ukraine were equipped only with a manual artillery guidance system, which requires crews to calculate distance using small steps marked on the weapon's sights, known as milliradians or mils.

Of course, the pill was slightly sweetened. Say, even without computer target designation, the M777 has an advantage. American gunsights measure 6 mils all around, while Soviet guns only mark 400, giving American guns greater accuracy when using manual aiming.

Well, of course. And such guidance provides simply fantastic accuracy! Yes, Canada provided the Armed Forces of Ukraine with as many as FOUR guns, equipped with everything necessary, for firing Excaliburs. And the rest? And the rest, in the best traditions of the Second World War, began to flood the Russian side with shells, directing them with the help of manual aiming and artillery compass.

Now, probably, there will be no questions regarding the accelerated consumption of the barrel resource?


Especially since the most common M777 projectiles are high-explosive fragmentation projectiles, which have a radius of destruction of approximately 70 meters. This makes talking about accuracy somewhat relative. But when high accuracy is required, then there are other options.


Ukraine has received a number of Raytheon-made M982 "Excalibur" rounds, which increase the range to 40 km thanks to stabilizers and use built-in GPS to reduce the error at this distance to five meters or less. But Excaliburs cost about $70 apiece, which, compared to less than $000 for a standard high-explosive shell, looks just awful.

In addition, the lack of accurate adjustment and aiming systems puts the luxurious M777 on a par with the Msta-B. It's like a sniper who has a rifle with a sector sight at 400 meters. And the reproaches that are put forward by both sides, which refers to the defeat of civilians, are justified by both sides.

Hundreds of civilians died from M777 shells back in Raqqa, so why did American shells launched “from hand” suddenly start flying past the civilian population of the Kherson and Donetsk regions?

You can describe the losses of the Russian army from M777 shells for as long as you like, in this respect the press service of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine knows no equal, this is undeniable. But at the same time, it is absolutely clear that the “Three Axes” is not a guarantee of success in general, and a hundred trunks will not reverse the Russian army. Operators drones, spotters, signalmen - they all make every effort to ensure that the use of the M777 is maximum. As far as it is at all possible.

The Americans praise their howitzer. Ukrainians praise with might and main, if you don’t praise them, you will scold them, tomorrow they won’t give shells. Everything is clear here. However, simply using a calculator in our case by the Russian side makes it easy and simple to understand that the M777 is a good weapon, but not a guarantee of victory.

Based on:
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a40589916/m777-howitzer-russia-ukraine-war/
97 comments
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  1. +1
    28 August 2023 04: 33
    The problems of the "three axes" are due to the lack of an intermediate caliber between 105mm and 155mm in NATO artillery, and an attempt to make an analogue of the D-30 in 155mm caliber required titanium crutches and retribution in the form of a resource and cost of the system.
    1. +7
      28 August 2023 09: 51
      Quote: srelock
      Problems of "three axes"

      And what are the problems?
    2. +10
      28 August 2023 10: 56
      They have all the artillery in the brigades standardized for a howitzer of 155-mm l = 53 caliber, with a chamber volume of 23 liters. And it happened in the mid 90s. In order to close the gap, a Coalition was supposed to appear in our country, but it never did. It was decided to completely abandon the 122-mm caliber, and in 2012 they began to be replaced where MSTA, where Acacia. Leaving only the paratroopers and marines.
      The D-30 generally sucks by today's standards, since when folding it is necessary to tear out the driving coulters from the ground.
  2. +23
    28 August 2023 05: 25
    One of the attached photos is not 777, but D-20. Only it is not known why Skomorokhov posted this particular photo.
    1. +5
      28 August 2023 05: 34
      Yes, the muzzle brake is clearly not from an American product. Never looks like.
      From what kind of art - I don’t presume to judge because I’m not an artilleryman, but definitely not from three axes.
      1. +13
        28 August 2023 06: 32
        Barrel and carriage from the D-20 howitzer gun.

        Destroyed D-20, August 2014. Photo by Lostarmour.info
    2. BAI
      +2
      28 August 2023 13: 50
      This photo is shown in an article from topnews, about the destruction of 30 m777
  3. Ray
    +28
    28 August 2023 05: 49
    A very, very detailed article, but it has not left the tradition of laudatory odes and hymns of our invincible second army of the world. In most cases, not deserved.
    . In the attack on Mariupol, artillery played a significant role and the Armed Forces of Ukraine could not oppose anything to the Russian artillerymen, who were setting up fire shafts

    Everyone saw these photographs of plowed fields arranged by our artillery, when hundreds of thousands of shells fell, flashing the fields, and the Ukrainians calmly waited out these ramparts in their fortified dugouts.
    Or here.
    . Combined with growing, multifaceted targeting and reconnaissance capabilities, Russian artillery is a formidable potential adversary.”

    Strelkov, for example, published such videos from the copter, such as forcing the Ukrainian DRG river and the arrival of shells at this place from our artillery. Arrival belated, a few minutes later, because. the order to strike at the coordinates of the detected enemy had to wait for the bureaucratic chain of approvals. What's the point of growing multifaceted target designation and reconnaissance capabilitiesif there is no direct link between infantry and artillery in the army? Even often there is simply no encrypted digital communication, what is Murz sounding the alarm from the very beginning of the war ???
    And if our Arta is so effective and the Armed Forces is ineffective, then where is the result? The result is not in the successful defense of Zaporozhye, because the goals of the NMD were not the defense of Zaporozhye, but a successful counter-battery fight, for example, by depriving Ukraine of artillery support. The result in the form of defeated Ukrainian formations and besieged Ukrainian cities?
    Aren't you tired of writing laudatory odes where it would be necessary to sound the alarm and demand changes, increased efficiency, at least now, when the war has been going on for a year and a half and is actually turning into a positional trench, following the model of the battles of the First World War? When the resources and potential of the Russian army have already been depleted to conduct any kind of offensive, and the enemy is not even in a hurry to negotiate?
    1. +9
      28 August 2023 07: 38
      Plusanul. Agree. I would only object to the last sentence.
      When the resources and potential of the Russian army were already depleted

      In my opinion, on the contrary, there is a saturation with new types of weapons, tactics and types of weapons have been understood, erroneous workers are being swept aside, the same saturation of UAVs has made it possible to significantly increase the connection between reconnaissance and artillery and accuracy.
      In the article itself, describing the advantages of 777, they somehow casually mentioned the accuracy of shooting, in my opinion this is their main advantage.
      1. +8
        28 August 2023 08: 45
        UAV saturation? Tell this to the boys on Antonovsky Island, the infantry without the support of artillery and UAVs goes to reconnaissance and the DRG knocks out incurring losses that can be avoided ...
        1. +3
          28 August 2023 12: 44
          It depends on what is considered saturation. One enemy UAV overhead is up to ...... and a dozen of which you can’t even see them fly behind the LBS .....
    2. +6
      28 August 2023 08: 17
      It's still summer. And soon autumn, slush and impassable mud. And bald tires on the Urals and KamAZ trucks that bring ammunition. And there are no new tires and are not expected.
      1. +1
        28 August 2023 11: 35
        And from what? Where is this maneuvering war of many millions of military motorized infantry masses, which devastated army stocks of tires?
        1. +7
          28 August 2023 12: 47
          "Burning" tires. Bad roads, high speed, and petals generally take out a truck tire at a time. I found out about this when I asked why they were asking for used tires.
      2. +1
        28 August 2023 19: 46
        Chains are for such cases. And they will descend into the mud and ice
    3. +4
      28 August 2023 09: 30
      Quote from Ray
      Are you tired of writing laudatory odes where it would be necessary to sound the alarm and demand changes, increase in efficiency, at least now, when the war has been going on for a year and a half and is actually turning into a trench war, following the model of the battles of the First World War? When the resources and potential of the Russian army have already been depleted to conduct any kind of offensive, and the enemy is not even in a hurry to negotiate?

      This question is not for the authors, but for the management. We were clearly not ready for such a scale of battles. feel
      The beginning of the formation of a reserve army, this is preparation for an offensive, as I hope, we will be able to create a significant superiority in forces in some area and count on the development of success and on a tangible depth, which should shake the front Yes
      In the meantime, only tactical successes, a creeping offensive where we can, with the aim of precisely exhausting the enemy and counting on the enemy’s luck and mistakes.
      But there are still no available forces for a major success yet, so we are waiting for the reserve army to enter the battle. soldier
    4. +9
      28 August 2023 09: 43
      Why, our generals demonstrate heroic resistance to any innovation and development. Since 2014 (10 years) we have heard about the idea of ​​​​Ukrainian volunteers in the form of artillery tablets "Krapiva" - an interesting idea of ​​\u10b\u1,5ba budget increase in the speed and accuracy of art calculations, which at the moment has strongly developed to quite such a combat system. And our all these XNUMX years looked at all this from the outside and did nothing. Moreover - for XNUMX years of CBO these tablets were captured many times in the form of trophies, studied, they were praised ..... and again - real steps to do something similar and even better - ZERO.
      Why do we need budget solutions, there is nothing to cut on them. For the same reason, the topic of FPV Drones is dealt with exclusively by civilian structures.
      1. +12
        28 August 2023 10: 28
        Quote: olegff68
        Since 2014 (10 years) we have heard about the idea of ​​​​Ukrainian volunteers in the form of artillery tablets "Krapiva" - an interesting idea for a budgetary increase in the speed and accuracy of art calculations, which at the moment has strongly developed to quite such a combat system. And our all these 10 years looked at all this from the outside and did nothing.

        Well, why didn't they do it? At various exhibitions, unique and unparalleled SUAO were constantly demonstrated.
        That's just how it got to the point - so the gunners reached out to the volunteers for artbooks and updates for them.
        1. +4
          28 August 2023 10: 53
          That's just how it got to the point - so the gunners reached out to the volunteers for artbooks and updates for them.

          Yes, and for materiel too. The morning begins with viewing the “avito” and “bag” for the sale of serviceable and not at the price of a cast-iron bridge MPM-44 mortar sights from the Second World War, reconnaissance pipes, modernized panoramas of Hertz, TA-57 and voles.
          PS No matter how excellent the equipment is, the reserve does not pull the burden. This is how I put the reality...
        2. +1
          28 August 2023 11: 53
          For some reason, we are all sure that the generals are related to exhibitions. We have representatives of the military-industrial complex going to exhibitions, they also praise their crafts to journalists. And the military safely ignores all this.
          1. +2
            28 August 2023 13: 45
            And the military safely ignores all this.

            The military is repelled by the money that the budget allocates them. What does it have to do with not just money, but specifically allocated for the purchase of new equipment and, God forbid, spending even a penny from another expense item, and the money comes from the center in the second half of the financial year, and there are still tenders. Continue further?
            1. +1
              28 August 2023 14: 33
              This is all I know. In fact, the military did not buy new tanks, guided missiles, armats, coalitions, drones and much more, but instead they did not buy anything
              1. +3
                28 August 2023 16: 30
                In general, I agree with you, but with the amendment, they did not buy enough, all the same, it is impossible to deny the renewal of weapons.
                1. -1
                  28 August 2023 21: 22
                  The renewal of the ground forces left much to be desired. Well, it cannot be denied that a large part of this budget money was stolen
        3. +2
          28 August 2023 12: 26
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Quote: olegff68
          Since 2014 (10 years) we have heard about the idea of ​​​​Ukrainian volunteers in the form of artillery tablets "Krapiva" - an interesting idea for a budgetary increase in the speed and accuracy of art calculations, which at the moment has strongly developed to quite such a combat system. And our all these 10 years looked at all this from the outside and did nothing.

          Well, why didn't they do it? At various exhibitions, unique and unparalleled SUAO were constantly demonstrated.
          That's just how it got to the point - so the gunners reached out to the volunteers for artbooks and updates for them.

          Window dressing, window dressing in everything. What was the person who stole the uniform counting on. On impunity, hand washes hand, etc. And he was not wrong. There is no punishment. Transfer to another position almost with a promotion. And who voices the abnormality of the position of resignation.
          1. +2
            29 August 2023 10: 27
            Quote: napalm
            Window dressing, window dressing in everything. What was the person who stole the uniform counting on. On impunity, hand washes hand, etc. And he was not wrong.

            There is another question - was this form somewhere other than documents? It used to be that at first the goods (at least some) were produced, and then they stole (well, they sawed in parallel). And now you can not even spend money on the production of goods, but simply carry out everything according to the documents. On paper, the goods are produced and accepted, all acts and certificates are signed. But in fact - no one saw the goods, the work was not performed. Briefly speaking, "Priozersk gas pipeline© (this is when Gazprom paid 1,69 billion rubles for the gas pipeline it accepted, which was 3/4 just clearings in the forest and clearings at the site of the gas distribution station).
    5. +8
      28 August 2023 10: 32
      Quote from Ray
      What is the point of growing multifaceted target designation and reconnaissance capabilities if there is no direct infantry-artillery link in the army?

      Double-edged sword. By distributing artillery control "down" to the infantry, we can get the situation in the summer of 1941. When the battalion commanders were engaged shooting cannons at sparrows solved all the tasks of the battlefield by attracting divisional and corps artillery - up to firing at machine-gun nests and individual enemy soldiers. And at the same time, the warehouses were bursting with shells and mines of battalion and regimental calibers - they were practically not used.
      Centralized artillery fire control is essential. The task is different - to reduce the time from target detection to the issuance of the control center to the assigned battery.
      1. +2
        28 August 2023 11: 43
        An interesting observation about the situation in the summer of 1941. That is, it is also important to strengthen artillery capabilities at the lowest level.
        For the same BMP-3, where the gun is a low-ballistics cannon and a launcher, it is quite advisable to adapt an air blast fuse to a new powerful 100-mm high-explosive fragmentation projectile. And more often use the cannon as a mortar with the appropriate equipment.
        At the battalion level, it seems appropriate to replace the 120-mm mortar complex of the Sani complex, in fact a mortar transported by a truck, to use the massively new Phlox SAO capable of firing at longer distances with ammunition with ready-made rifling.
        It is also desirable to see a cumulative fragmentation 82-mm mine for the Vasilek automatic mortar for firing at both armored vehicles and fortified areas. The appearance of such ammunition can compensate for the weakness of the 82-mm caliber in the fight against enemy fortifications and armored vehicles.
        1. 0
          28 August 2023 15: 42
          Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
          An interesting observation about the situation in the summer of 1941. That is, it is also important to strengthen artillery capabilities at the lowest level.

          The problem in 1941 was not a lack of grassroots artillery capability. The problem was that they were - but not used.
          Quote: Alexey RA
          And at the same time, the warehouses were bursting with shells and mines of battalion and regimental calibers - they were practically not used.

          Moreover, this continued further - the order of 1943 on the Lenfront threw thunder and lightning on the heads of the battalion commanders, who either completely forgot about battalion artillery and mortars (without mentioning them in terms of the offensive), or set them tasks only at the stage of breaking through the first line of defense . Separate epithets were awarded to commanders who forgot to give an order to shift fire - after which the minbatr covered her own fighters who had taken up enemy positions.
          1. 0
            28 August 2023 18: 29
            After all, they were not used for some reason, not just like that, not because they simply did not want to.
            So I propose to consider the problems specifically, in relation to certain types of weapons.
            Obviously, the BMP-3 is rarely used for indirect fire due to the small ammunition load. But the effectiveness of its fire can be increased by the introduction of an air blast fuse.
            As well as the reasons for which they abandoned the 82-mm mortar are also obvious. This is a small impact on fortifications, armored vehicles and overall low efficiency. It can also be increased by the introduction of cumulative fragmentation ammunition and an air blast fuse.
            We are not completely abandoning the 82-mm mortar, but we are not reinforcing ammunition, although we should.
            So we have to expect the help of higher artillery, because our own is not enough.
            1. 0
              29 August 2023 10: 36
              Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
              After all, they were not used for some reason, not just like that, not because they simply did not want to.

              Because the battalion commanders did not know how to command their own artillery, if at all they remembered it. They were easier outsource work divisional and corps artillerymen than to do it on their own.
              And in 1941 this did not end - and further problems that could be solved in a few minutes by battalion artillery fell to the top, and their solution was delayed for tens of minutes. And the infantry all this time lay under fire from an unsuppressed firing point.
              1. 0
                29 August 2023 17: 22
                Artillery doesn't work that abstractly.
                Or there is simply no connection with their own mortars, since they do not have a walkie-talkie.
                Either an artillery spotter is attached from a senior commander and fire is fired through him.
                It’s impossible to dump target designation data just like that, it’s either there is no connection with our own artillery, or a spotter is not attached. Or it's a mess and a mess.
      2. +1
        28 August 2023 20: 20
        Quote: Alexey RA

        Double-edged sword. By distributing artillery control "down" to the infantry, we can get the situation in the summer of 1941. When the battalion commanders were engaged shooting cannons at sparrows solved all the tasks of the battlefield by attracting divisional and corps artillery - up to firing at machine-gun nests and individual enemy soldiers. .
        From the headquarters of the division they see a "sparrow", and the battalion commander sees firing point, which holds the offensive of the battalion ...
        For the headquarters MG-34 = "sparrow", and the battalion commander has this "sparrow" "pecked" half a company...

        Quote: Alexey RA
        . And at the same time, the warehouses were bursting with shells and mines of battalion and regimental calibers - they were practically not used.
        .
        Maybe because the battalion commander there were no "at hand" (in the battalion) battalion, regimental guns and mortars.
        For example...
        A fictitious situation - a battalion in a counterattack came across an MG-34 ... - it is logical to pull up an 82mm mortar and throw a heel of mines at the "sparrow" ... - just what should a battalion commander do in the absence of an 82mm mortar? ... - call the regiment, division and ask to "crush the sparrow" with divisional artillery.
        1. 0
          29 August 2023 10: 46
          Quote: cat Rusich
          From the headquarters of the division they see a "sparrow", and the battalion commander sees a firing point that holds the battalion's offensive ...
          For the headquarters MG-34 = "sparrow", and at the battalion commander this "sparrow" "pecked" half a company ...

          And at this time, battalion artillerymen and mortarmen, which the battalion commander simply forgot about, are toiling on fire. And while the divisional artilleryman rakes the entire wave of applications "urgently! fast! yes I love you!!!"until they calculate the data for firing - the infantry lies. Because the battalion commander forgot about his own fire weapons, or does not know how to use them.
          Quote: cat Rusich
          Maybe because the battalion commander did not have "at hand" (in the battalion) battalion, regimental guns and mortars.

          Didn't all the battalions have? Because the described cases of requesting disproportionate firepower against battlefield targets were a mass phenomenon.
          And by the way, where did the battalion commander's mortars go? Did the personnel throw out the base plates again? Or, as in the case of Matrosov - do you remember why he had to lie down on the embrasure?
          the battalion commander, Captain Afanasyev, and his deputy for political affairs, Captain Klimovsky, did not send reconnaissance and side guards. The battalion marched in a chain, the enemy missed part of it and cut it off.

          During the march, the battalion was divided by the enemy into 3 groups. After a stubborn battle, the battalion groups connected with each other, while the mortar company lost its materiel, the battalion commander, Captain Afanasyev, was wounded.

          Quote: cat Rusich
          A fictitious situation - a battalion in a counterattack came across an MG-34 ... - it is logical to pull up an 82mm mortar and throw a heel of mines at the "sparrow" ... - just what should a battalion commander do in the absence of an 82mm mortar? ... - call the regiment, division and ask to "crush the sparrow" with divisional artillery.

          The problem is that the battalion commanders massively called the regiment, division, if they had mortars and forty-fives. The consumption of shells and mines of battalion calibers was so low that there was no room for them in the warehouses.
    6. -1
      28 August 2023 11: 01
      Quote from Ray

      . In the attack on Mariupol, artillery played a significant role and the Armed Forces of Ukraine could not oppose anything to the Russian artillerymen, who were setting up fire shafts

      Everyone saw these photographs of plowed fields arranged by our artillery, when hundreds of thousands of shells fell, flashing the fields, and the Ukrainians calmly waited out these ramparts in their fortified dugouts.
      Or here.

      So there are actually no "plowed fields". The fact is that there are so-called "areal goals" such as a fortified area. To storm it, it is necessary to throw out about 1000 shells ONE TIME per hectare of area, actually plowing it with shells. After that, the defenders come to full sky readiness and attack aircraft can take them with their bare hands. This is according to Soviet instructions. In our country, the enemy is only a little frightened by artillery, and then the attack aircraft flood the enemy trenches with blood. And so on for several attempts. As a result, the picture of the "plowed field" seems to be there, but there is no effect in the form of a taken UR. And most importantly, this is not due to the fact that the commanders are bad, but because of the opposition of the enemy in the form of attacks on warehouses and a general lack of materiel.
      1. +3
        28 August 2023 12: 13
        The fact is that there are so-called "areal goals" such as a fortified area.

        They wrote about this at VO, including the author of the current article.
        https://topwar.ru/206569-bol-i-nischeta-rossijskoj-artillerii.html
        In the same place, a photo was cited like this one.


        This does not look like a blow to the "fortified area" :(((
        1. Ray
          0
          28 August 2023 13: 27
          Hmm, a depressing article that leaves a painful impression ((
          As it turned out, its author is also Roman Skomarokhov. And he, to his credit, as it turned out, belongs to the category of journalists "trench truth." For such only respect.
          And contempt for those who have been writing laudatory odes to our army for a year and a half, not seeing real problems.
          No, for a simple soldier, of course, there are no complaints. And to the commanders of the lower levels. They show courage and heroism, they are ready to die like men and warriors. All claims are known to whom.
        2. -3
          28 August 2023 14: 40
          This is a strike at the crossroads, where enemies constantly ride
        3. 0
          29 August 2023 01: 05
          Quote from solar
          The fact is that there are so-called "areal goals" such as a fortified area.

          They wrote about this at VO, including the author of the current article.
          https://topwar.ru/206569-bol-i-nischeta-rossijskoj-artillerii.html
          In the same place, a photo was cited like this one.


          This does not look like a blow to the "fortified area" :(((

          But this is in the view of some "plowed field". So we are at war: there is a "plowed field" but there is no sense
    7. BAI
      +1
      28 August 2023 13: 55
      if the army does not have a direct link between infantry and artillery

      Eat. Solovyov had a report from the front, about a sergeant - a drone operator. He has 2 tanks and a mortar battery under his command. At the sergeant. And then there was a report from the army command post where the commander gave an order (about this sergeant) to some boss: "You connect something heavy to him to exclude you, and he would lead directly."
    8. 0
      29 August 2023 18: 15
      In the battles for Mariupol, the edarasts immediately left their fortified areas outside the city and became involved in urban development.
  4. +5
    28 August 2023 06: 04
    $70 for eucalibur, $000 for regular RP. When shooting at areas without proper adjustment from the air, you can shoot more, and wear out the barrel accordingly, not to mention the logistics costs of dragging 1000 shells from the USA to positions instead of one.
  5. +2
    28 August 2023 07: 35
    One thing is clear, towed artillery should slowly die off, no matter what caliber and purpose. It's good that we have a lot of it, but protection, mobility, all this suffers.
  6. +4
    28 August 2023 08: 03
    The author completely forgot about the M1156 course corrector. Although it does not reach the accuracy and range of Excalibur, however, it costs 3 times cheaper, and target programming takes place literally on the knee. And it's produced in the tens of thousands.
    1. +4
      28 August 2023 10: 08
      They write that M1156 costs $10, that is, 000 times cheaper than Excalibur.
      No, the author did not forget, but deliberately did not write. In the article from "popular mechanics", to which the article contains a link, there is a mention of high-precision fuses.
    2. 0
      28 August 2023 11: 56
      Has anyone seen him in combat? And so that tens of thousands
    3. +1
      28 August 2023 15: 14
      Quote from Escariot
      The author completely forgot about the M1156 course corrector. Although it does not reach the accuracy and range of Excalibur, however, it costs 3 times cheaper, and target programming takes place literally on the knee. And it's produced in the tens of thousands.

      The novel tends to forget the "moments" that go against his writings.
      1. -1
        29 August 2023 01: 13
        Quote: BORMAN82
        Quote from Escariot
        The author completely forgot about the M1156 course corrector. Although it does not reach the accuracy and range of Excalibur, however, it costs 3 times cheaper, and target programming takes place literally on the knee. And it's produced in the tens of thousands.

        The novel tends to forget the "moments" that go against his writings.

        Agree. And I'm a sinner
  7. +3
    28 August 2023 08: 28
    Single copies of weapons are very rarely as effective outside of their fellow tribesmen in the army. Each army creates and adopts weapons that fit into their concept of use. Take
    transfer one type of weapon to another. And it will not be as effective as in the army where it came from. Same with the three axes. This weapon just asks under the Chinook's belly. And under the umbrella of the US Air Force. We have an advantage. We complement and compensate for the capabilities of our weapons systems on the battlefield. They don't have that opportunity. And it won't. They simply won't be allowed to do it.
    1. +2
      28 August 2023 09: 50
      Quote: Observer2014
      They don't have that opportunity. And it won't. They simply won't be allowed to do it.

      Who will not allow? Who won't let?
  8. +3
    28 August 2023 08: 34
    It's like a sniper who has a rifle with a sector sight at 400 meters
    But here I won’t say if the target is contrasting, even a company sniper is not God knows what can get into the chest from 400 meters from the mechanics. From a tiger 1 to 300 meters, I shot more than half in the chest at another 9! years. Fired over 2 rounds from it. Until the shop called the USSR closed request
  9. +4
    28 August 2023 08: 48
    "...says Philip Ety, a former member of the M777 crew of the Marine Corps" - well, the terminology was very touching. In Russian - the number of the calculation, and who is the member of the calculation? What are the duties of this member or I don’t know something, although I actually guess feel
  10. 0
    28 August 2023 09: 08
    What difference does it make on a howitzer, the main thing is that it shoots, it quickly turns around and collapses. And the effectiveness of the battle already depends more on the projectile and all sorts of calculators and SLAs, which probably even can be attached and sewn to the M-10
    1. -1
      28 August 2023 10: 31
      Quote from iommy
      What difference does it make on a howitzer, the main thing is that it shoots, it quickly turns around and collapses. And the effectiveness of the battle already depends more on the projectile and all sorts of calculators and SLAs, which probably even can be attached and sewn to the M-10

      No one has canceled the size tolerances, and it seems to me that the M-10 has them slightly larger than the M-777.
  11. +5
    28 August 2023 09: 49
    Hmm.

    I see that the period of realism, so to speak, in the work of a respected author is over. And then earlier, under some publications, they denounced the alarmist and the all-sweeper.

    Finally, everything is fine again. Or at least not bad.
  12. +6
    28 August 2023 10: 03
    in the distant already (or not so) 2019, eight researchers from the Rand Corporation analytical group

    The same report four years ago.
    https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR2124.html
    I wonder if the author read it or wrote it in the retelling of "popular mechanics" at the link in the text?
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a40589916/m777-howitzer-russia-ukraine-war/
    So in "popular mechanics" the M777 is just described positively.
    Ukraine has received a number of Raytheon-made M982 "Excalibur" rounds, which increase the range to 40 km thanks to stabilizers and use built-in GPS to reduce the error at this distance to five meters or less.

    the author missed in the article he cited that special relatively cheap fuses with precise guidance are used for M777 shells
    In early 2016, M777 units began to receive sets of high-precision guidance fuses, which reduced the error of a standard high-explosive fragmentation projectile from more than 200 meters to less than 30.

    Indeed, 4 kg versus 200 for Msta-B is a lot.

    and this is generally a mysterious phrase.
  13. +6
    28 August 2023 10: 35
    When discussing and comparing artillery pieces, for some reason, they are most often referred to as simple heavy throwers over long distances - something like catapults or trebuchet. But modern weapons are a whole complex where weapons are not used by themselves. Artillery guns work in conjunction with target designation and detection systems for enemy guns, with weather stations and radars. They rarely fire singly, but more often in batteries and divisions where they can split up and plan their fire pattern to complete the task. The guns do not stand in an open field and "direct access": they are covered and supported by infantry with their "hand artillery" (ptury, grenade launchers) and armored vehicles, which can help finish off the underdogs. Well, let's not forget about attack aircraft - airplanes and helicopters. In general, I want to say that it is necessary to compare not only and not so much barrels, but the concepts of using artillery systems and their practice.
  14. -5
    28 August 2023 10: 45
    Towed artillery becomes easy prey for drones! The future now belongs to long-range artillery of the Archer, Cesar wheel type, which shoot at least 40-60 km! Three axes is already the last century!
    1. +1
      28 August 2023 11: 10
      Quote from: m4rtin.frost
      Towed artillery becomes easy prey for drones! The future now belongs to long-range artillery of the Archer, Cesar wheel type, which shoot at least 40-60 km! Three axes is already the last century!

      M-777 is well suited for light assault units. Chinook is able to throw a howitzer to a height from where it will conduct deadly fire. With Archer, this will not work in principle.
      UAVs are not a panacea. The same Americans plan to shoot them down with the help of the Laser, the Germans - with the help of shells with remote detonation, ours cover the guns with electronic warfare systems.
      1. 0
        28 August 2023 15: 45
        Quote from Escariot
        M-777 is well suited for light assault units.

        Subject to the complete suppression of enemy air defense. Otherwise, instead of:
        Quote from Escariot
        Chinook is able to throw a howitzer to a height from where it will conduct deadly fire.

        you get a Chinook burning down at a height with a howitzer, on which MANPADS or even ATGMs worked.

        That is, the ideal howitzer for zusula taming - who have neither air defense nor counter-battery weapons. So you can drag Chinook guns from one artillery base to another, and fire for weeks, or even months, from one position.
        1. -2
          28 August 2023 17: 13
          M777 is a hyped toy of the Marine Corps! They knocked out a lot in Ukraine! Wheeled self-propelled guns demonstrate much greater survivability on the battlefield!
        2. +1
          29 August 2023 01: 23
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Quote from Escariot
          M-777 is well suited for light assault units.

          Subject to the complete suppression of enemy air defense. Otherwise, instead of:
          Quote from Escariot
          Chinook is able to throw a howitzer to a height from where it will conduct deadly fire.

          you get a Chinook burning down at a height with a howitzer, on which MANPADS or even ATGMs worked.

          That is, the ideal howitzer for zusula taming - who have neither air defense nor counter-battery weapons. So you can drag Chinook guns from one artillery base to another, and fire for weeks, or even months, from one position.

          Not at all. The howitzer is simply better than its counterparts in the weight category. Of course, against the Zulus, it works great, but in terms of the total performance characteristics, it is better than the M198 and its analogues. Roughly speaking, she needs a much smaller tractor, which in itself is a plus
        3. -1
          29 August 2023 07: 55
          Quote: Alexey RA
          That is, an ideal howitzer for killing Zusuls - who have neither air defense nor counter-battery weapons. So you can drag Chinook guns from one artillery base to another, and fire for weeks, or even months, from one position.

          That is, if you do not offend the BRICS allies with a very serious army, 777 is a means of artillery support for light forces in a low-intensity conflict. No one ever intended to cosplay PMV with her, but she can do it too. Of course, a little about "nails with a microscope", but the problems of American taxpayers are traditionally of no interest to anyone, so its price is not a minus. It's free for the military.
          1. 0
            29 August 2023 10: 12
            Quote: Negro
            That is, if you do not offend the BRICS allies with a very serious army, 777 is a means of artillery support for light forces in a low-intensity conflict.

            Yes. This howitzer is perfect for the wars that the US fought after 9/11.
            Quote: Negro
            Of course, a little about "nails under a microscope", but the problems of American taxpayers traditionally do not interest anyone

            In peacetime, yes. It is only in the military that they can come and start asking questions - and then the cost of weapons decreases. Special financial magic. smile
            1. -3
              29 August 2023 14: 49
              Quote: Alexey RA
              This howitzer is perfect for the wars that the US fought after 9/11.

              A weapon for really ongoing small conflicts, and not for a third world? It looks like some kind of cheating, we need to file a report with the Sexual Reform League.
              Quote: Alexey RA
              It's only in the military that they can come in and start asking questions

              Who?
              In the fight against corruption, the main thing is not to go out on yourself. The new Truman is somehow not visible, and the Republicans are definitely not comfortable climbing into military prices.
              1. 0
                29 August 2023 17: 01
                Quote: Negro
                A weapon for really ongoing small conflicts, and not for a third world?

                If the hare is beaten for a long time ... © smile
                Quote: Negro
                In the fight against corruption, the main thing is not to go out on yourself. The new Truman is somehow not visible, and the Republicans are definitely not comfortable climbing into military prices.

                Well, with the FDR, did they somehow manage to? Although in a situation where the cycle between top managerial and top government posts works like clockwork, yes, it’s quite possible to come to your senses. One Dick "Halliburton" Cheney was worth something. smile
                1. -1
                  29 August 2023 20: 13
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  Well, with the FDR, did they somehow manage to?

                  Were badly able to.
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  One Dick "Hallyburton" Cheney

                  By itself, it's not that important.

                  As for savings, the conversation is generally empty. The carriage serves for quite a long time, the barrel is roughly designed for 3000 rounds, a simple shot costs an EMNIP of the order of 3K, an active one with modular charges of the order of 10K, and the charges are more expensive than the projectile, the tip is another 10K. So it costs $60M to shoot one cycle of the barrel with active controllers, not Excalibur, in words from ten to sixty million dollars it costs to feed one gun with shells until a scheduled repair.
                  If you want to save money - deal with ammunition first of all. You can even order a carriage from Ferrari.

                  For the same reason, by the way, the cost of a truck in systems like Caesar is about zero.
                  1. 0
                    30 August 2023 16: 40
                    Quote: Negro
                    So it costs $60M to shoot one barrel cycle with active controls, not Excalibur; in words, from ten to sixty million dollars it costs to feed one gun with shells until scheduled repairs.

                    So... it's like a printer - the main income comes from consumables. smile
    2. 0
      28 August 2023 13: 48
      The M777 is a specialized light gun designed for the Marines and airmobile units. One of the important requirements for the M777 was to be able to transport the gun on the external suspension of helicopters.
      US heavy brigades do not use the M777, they are armed with the M109 self-propelled guns.
  15. -4
    28 August 2023 11: 03
    According to American instructors, the guns delivered to Ukraine were equipped only with a manual artillery guidance system, which requires crews to calculate distance using small steps marked on the weapon's sights, known as milliradians or mils.


    Yes, the attitude of the American allies is absolutely bestial! How is it to guide guns manually in the era of automation?
    On South Korean howitzers, for example, everything is automated! Quickly fired back and changed position!
    1. +1
      28 August 2023 13: 54
      It all depends on the modification of the M777. Initially, Ukraine was supplied with the basic M777 models, without ASUNO, but very soon the M777A1 and M777A2 went with ASUNO Towed Artillery Digitization, which is necessary for firing high-precision satellite-guided projectiles.
  16. +4
    28 August 2023 11: 05
    The howitzers originally had full-metal barrels, but were upgraded with full-barrel chrome tubes in the mid-2010s. These tubes limited the build-up of residual combustion charge inside the gun, and this upgrade is said to have extended their life by as much as 300 percent. Then the question arises as to how intensive use, for example, in a protracted artillery duel in Ukraine, can render the gun barrel unusable?


    Author, what are you trying to tell us about trunk laning? This is when, when the rifling is worn, it is not the barrel itself that is changed, but only its inner part, the liner-inner pipe with rifling. The wear of the rifling is approximately the same in both cases.

    In fact, 900 shots a day is again not so much! This is 37,5 shots per hour or 1 shot in a minute and a half!


    This is a lot, because there is also such a thing as a fire mode. Since soon your barrel will overheat and the recoil devices will fail due to heating.
  17. +2
    28 August 2023 11: 15
    In Ukraine, there are a lot of "not guarantees of victory" (howitzers, tanks, UAVs, F16, etc.) And adding up all the "not guarantees of victory" can turn out to be something very bad.
  18. -2
    28 August 2023 11: 48
    All this is good when there is a normal target designation, but the really best howitzer is the Lancet and there are more of them at the front soldier
  19. -7
    28 August 2023 12: 08
    The article is a bit late))) everyone has already understood that this is expensive bullshit))) it is good only because it can be brought by helicopter to places where you cannot bring an ordinary howitzer)))
  20. -6
    28 August 2023 12: 08
    The article is a bit late))) everyone has already understood that this is expensive bullshit))) it is good only because it can be brought by helicopter to places where you cannot bring an ordinary howitzer)))
  21. +3
    28 August 2023 12: 10
    the name comes from the German word Haubitze - slingshot

    Etymology is clearly not the strong point of the author.
    Slingshot in German - die Schleuder or das Katapult. And Haubitze is from Middle High German haufniz. Houf herd, crowd + ‎ -nice.
  22. +1
    28 August 2023 13: 05
    it has a short deployment time and, of course, folding.
    Roll and unroll carpet. But the guns, according to the charter, deploy and collapse ...
  23. +3
    28 August 2023 13: 18
    howitzers (the name comes from the German word Haubitze - slingshot)
    Strange, however, more literate people write that the Howitzer is German. Haubitze, from Czech. houfnice, originally - a tool for throwing stones ... Let's go from the opposite, we type - "slingshot in German", at the exit -die Schleuder - slingshot, centrifuge, catapult, sling ...
  24. -1
    28 August 2023 13: 29
    777, in principle, parity with Msta-B / Hyacinth-b, from the pluses it is lighter, a little heavier than the d-30 ... From the minuses, it is more expensive and more difficult to repair ... Roughly speaking, if something breaks, it’s one thing to weld a steel carriage can any welder with minimal skills ... Titanium and aluminum alloys on the knee cannot be welded in the field, that is, not a field repair shop, but must be taken to a repair company.
    In conflicts of low tension, against the "Papuans", this disadvantage is insignificant. Few guns die, missiles do not arrive at repair plants, this minus is not important, in a major conflict, on the contrary, this drawback is critical ...
    Well, yes, if you fell in love with a crooked stick in the army way, then that's it - suffer.
  25. BAI
    +4
    28 August 2023 13: 35
    But the howitzers sent from the United States to Ukraine did not include these computer systems due to fears that they would fall into the hands of the Russian military.

    These systems have been delivered. The Internet is full of photos of 777 in Ukraine with this box on the right side of the gun barrel.
  26. +2
    28 August 2023 13: 39
    How does it hurt the eyes written by the author "in Ukraine". am
  27. -1
    28 August 2023 13: 50
    Have you heard of automation?
  28. +3
    28 August 2023 21: 26
    In essence, the author is trying to fix the nonsense of the West and the liberals that the RF Armed Forces deliberately fire aimed shots at the civilian population? Do the APU hit the cities every day by chance? Author, what are you? Carry
  29. +2
    29 August 2023 07: 57
    >American scopes measure 6 mils all around, while Soviet guns only measure 400

    We are called thousandths, it would be nice to note.
  30. +2
    29 August 2023 09: 51
    Herr Skomorokhov once again lived up to his name. Alas. Laughing through tears... It's a pity, it's a pity that a year and a half ago... Oh, sorry, NWO, they didn't wean us from "roaring" for no reason and explaining to everyone that unripe apples are actually sweet by pulling an owl on a globe. There are two bad news for Roman: First, three axes really hit five kilometers further than Msta because active-rocket shells are expensive, and secondly, in their troops during the day and with fire .. Well, you understand ... The problem is old "What we see at parades, he does not always go to the troops. And Echoing the Bad News - "Excalibur" is obtained from an ordinary projectile by replacing the fuse with the same one, only with an adjustment block. And this upgrade costs only 4 thousand dollars, and the entire "excalibur" - 7 ... Our "krasnopol" is a whole separate system with its own shot, propellant charge, etc.. And it costs about 70 thousand dollars .. Which, let's say, imposes some restrictions on its use.
    Well, and about the lack of an automatic command and control system that allows you to respond with fire to changes in the tactical situation .... It is like the February revolution, the need for which everyone talked about, but no one wanted to do ....
  31. +1
    29 August 2023 10: 28
    Well hello! From all the above re-read with non-praise of this weapon, the author concludes about the "luxury" of this weapon ... How is that? It turns out overpraised? Well, in principle, for the wunderwaffe of the author's "In" Ukraine, this is normal.
    It's good, though, that everyone can decide for himself how much this "luxury" works for all the money.
    It is clear where this tale about the "mobility" of a towed gun came from. Light weight and Wikipedia 3-2 minutes for unfolding - folding. Or mobility is just a variant of the possibility of transferring light weapons by air, sea transport. And what is interestingly written there in the instruction about the operation of the gun in the mode of using counter-battery fire on them? What are the standards for deployment and folding? Do they exist at all? Has anyone seen these real numbers? Checked? On any video, for example, marines prepare for "half an hour" to fire when they take up new firing positions. It doesn't even make sense to talk about stationary ones.
    Let's take a look at this whole process for ourselves, at least from the outside, based on at least photo and video materials, and everyone will decide for themselves how "mobile" this tool is.
    For example, when occupying and equipping a new or reserve firing position, the M777 simply requires the normal operation of at least three diggers, and this is not digging in the gun, but simply stabilizing the beds of its type. Sometimes a sledgehammer is also required.


    Which is very important for accurate and "quick" fire. Many videos show how the gun jumps when using "extended range" charges, which requires adjusting the sight after each shot, since having an "asymmetric" right-left "LIGHT" weight of the gun with the shutter closed, it not only moves back, but also receives an angular deviation in the direction of fire. At long ranges, this is critical. Yes, for example, marines in Afghanistan often neglect this when they need to "twist" the gun to change the shooting sectors and hit "runaway" without adjusting the sight after each shot.
    And so, after you buried the cannon during a "quick" deployment, and then dug it up during a "quick" folding, then the standards of 3-2 minutes somehow do not look very good.

    After they brought it, buried it, prepared it for firing by screwing on all the devices, let's take a look at the very process of firing this mobile, "luxurious" miracle of artillery thought.
    We are engaged in screwing in the transport plug and screwing in the fuse. On new mods, the fuse is installed by the device.

    And here the most interesting dances with a tambourine begin. Multi-colored MSAZ system (I won’t bathe with the original name - Modular System of Art Charges).
    1. +3
      29 August 2023 10: 48
      Read more.
      There are TWO charges in stock! different types and colors. Green and white. The main thing is not to confuse the color and of course the quantity! This is what requires a specially trained black member of the calculation, which shows when loading that he did everything right and everyone is watching and checking.

      Then, I don’t know if it’s him or there is another member of the crew trained in circus art, he puts it all far into the “pipe” with his hand, bending so that, for example, I won’t succeed.

      Yes, I forgot about the shell itself. There, too, when laying it on the tray, you need to jump.

      When everything is stuffed, that's not all. You have to put in the fuse. He himself has not yet mastered when - before or after a flexible circus performer. Difficult. Like after. And their fuses must be kept on. Like this.

      Well, when everything is inserted, what do you think then? Right. Tie a rope, cord! It is every time, with each shot, they take off, put on a cord with which, pulling, ignite the capsule.

      And finally a shot.
      So what do you think? Sure, it's nice to see a team of highly trained Marines jumping over a gun to fire once, but it's really not an easy job. This is a very complex and capricious weapon, and in order to train the crew to jump like these marines, you need to make a lot of efforts to achieve these "2 shots" per minute. I even admit that such a highly trained crew will be able to meet these 3-3 minutes to arrive and leave, but there is clearly no question of any mobility and normal operation of the towed M777 gun with the likelihood of receiving counter-battery fire. And yes, you can get a good range by having, for example, 5 separate charges of the MSAZ system, but here it’s even a no-brainer how much this slows down the rate of fire, which a perfect calculation can barely take out.
      1. +1
        29 August 2023 10: 55
        A good weapon in its class, with its own advantages and disadvantages, but IMHO, with the vision that we all suddenly have in the form of an instant counter-battery fight and the saturation of the LBS with all kinds of reconnaissance and destruction means, its time is running out. Of course, you can leave it to throw on the "partisans", but for a modern war it will no longer be taken out.
      2. +3
        29 August 2023 12: 00
        PS. When loading a series of charges, adaptations are still required. Trays and sleeves. When charging and releasing them, they still need to be beautifully removed and thrown away.

        And, of course, to neigh from their CURVE gun bannik, which must be pulled together.
  32. +1
    30 August 2023 18: 37
    “in Ukraine” is a marker that divides the Russian world into friends and foes. The author must understand this.
  33. 0
    2 September 2023 09: 56
    divide 35 shots over 000 months. That works out to 5 shots per month. Next, we divide 7 shots into 000 battery barrels. 7 shots per barrel. Per month. Well, then everything is simple: 000 shots per day, 6 shots per hour. Well, or 1 shots in 167 hours.

    Mistake: three shots in two hours and not three.
    And then, they didn’t shoot for 39 hours! If we assume an eight-hour “shooting day,” but divide 12 shots per day by eight and get five shots per hour. Or a shot every XNUMX minutes for eight hours. No lunch break. Not so little. It is quite possible to talk about intense shooting.
  34. -1
    3 September 2023 09: 02
    Khodakovsky almost every day is sad about the lack of counter-battery combat, including due to the lack of radar and the much shorter firing range of our artillery. Ukrainians, in turn, a long time ago developed a very simple application for a tablet or phone, which significantly improves shooting accuracy.
  35. 0
    3 September 2023 09: 55
    Let's return from heaven to earth. Khokhlam Three Axes comes without electronics. And NATO self-propelled guns “unexpectedly” turned out to have a “longer arm”
  36. -1
    5 September 2023 23: 57
    . And Excalibur flies for all 40 km, significantly ahead of the Russian Krasnopol in this regard.


    If you don’t have enough intelligence and abilities to make Krasnopol in 152 mm caliber fly the same 40 km, you need to make Krasnopol in 203 mm caliber and are guaranteed to shoot at 70-80 km, even if the charge power is like that of 152 mm shells, it is quite enough for destruction of important enemy targets and, most importantly, for counter-battery combat!
  37. 0
    6 September 2023 17: 03
    Cannons still shoot mainly direct fire, howitzers (the name comes from the German word Haubitze - slingshot) shoot from closed positions in a high arc. The range of the howitzer allows you to shoot at targets that are far beyond the line of sight.

    Isn't the difference between a gun and a howitzer in the ratio of the length and caliber of the barrel?