The worst cruiser in the world or how not to build ships

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The worst cruiser in the world or how not to build ships

In general, this material is an ode to the wonderful, best crew of the Black Sea fleet in the Great Patriotic War. Indeed, there is no exaggeration here: to do such things on such a dull trough, which was the under-cruiser "Red Caucasus" - this is generally beyond understanding often.

The thesis is this: the crew of the guards cruiser Krasny Kavkaz is a very well trained, both technically and morally, motivated and absolutely reckless crew, which any great naval commander of any state would consider it an honor to have.



Arguments? Elementary! To work miracles with a lightly armed landing barge at your disposal is a "god" level.

Let's start with numbers



From 1941 to 1944, before the start of the overhaul, the "Red Caucasus" made 64 military campaigns, in which it transported more than 25 people and more than 000 pieces of military equipment. Repelled about 400 air attacks. Yes, something else was fired at and presumably hit somewhere, but we will leave that behind the scenes for now.


25 thousand people. These are 20 infantry regiments. With small arms, ammunition and so on. Machine guns, regimental cannons and vehicles (see 400+ vehicles). Plus, these 20 regiments were not always landed during the transfer of troops, but also in landing operations, when everything that was at hand, from company mines to heavy howitzer shells, flew into the landing and landing ships. And it flew.

Only the first two combat exits, on June 23 and 24, 1941, were not associated with the movement of people and equipment: the cruiser laid mines. From whom and why is a separate question, but I did. All other operations were, as they would say now, logistical.

It can be said that the conversion of the Svetlana-class cruiser resulted in a very successful landing barge. Well, or an assault landing ship, in modern terms. It is quite relative to shock, but we will talk about this a little lower.

In general, there is no sadder story in the world than the story of project No. 815.

Project No. 815 is a script for a horror film based on the metamorphosis of the light cruiser Admiral Lazarev into a certain cruiser Krasny Kavkaz. History a series of forced and unsuccessful decisions, because the sister ship and the lead ship of the Svetlana series, aka Profintern, aka Red Crimea, was simply completed according to the project (well, give or take, as always) and came out much more sane by ship: I was faster, went further, we just keep silent about weapons.

If these two ships met in an artillery duel, I would not bet on the Krasny Kavkaz. Not only was 15 130mm barrels against 4 180mm guns a lot, there were still a lot of nuances, which even nullified the theoretical advantage of super-long-range 180mm guns.

But let's go in order. What was the main problem of the "Red Caucasus" - it stood for too long waiting for completion and flew into an era of change while standing.

In general, I wanted to finish building the ship according to a rather sane project: for the installation of eight 203-mm guns, which were removed from decommissioned Russian battleships. It turned out to be a kind of "light heavyweight", but the division into light and heavy cruisers was still ahead, therefore we are silent.

The evil genius of our fool from the army and navy of the first red marshal Tukhachevsky intervened. It was he (or one of his specialists) who came up with the idea of ​​building a cruiser-sniper with artillery capable of firing at long distances.

It and besides this, many mistakes were made in the completion of the ship, caused by the lack of a unified management of the processes. Well, the eternal desire to shove everything that is possible into the existing displacement and a little more than that. However, it was a common practice of that time, and not only here.

Replace 15 130 mm shield guns with 8 shield guns, but 203 mm is a feasible project. But when instead of 203-mm guns it was decided to put 5 180-mm turret guns, problems began. One tower had to be abandoned, the cruiser "did not pull" 5 towers weighing 120 tons each, and two towers were supposed to have barbettes weighing about 60 tons each. And each tower, in addition to guns and armor, should also have rotation mechanisms, ammunition supply elevators, an artillery cellar ...

And they also wanted to leave part of the 130-mm guns as an auxiliary caliber ...

In general, it did not take off. One tower from the project had to be removed, and 130-mm guns went there too. It felt better, but still, the two towers on the nose gave a very noticeable overload, which was expressed in the trim on the nose.

The Germans in their "Deutschlands" in a similar situation simply screwed a new nose. Longer and so solved the problem. But in our case, the length of the "Red Caucasus" was already 166 meters (at the battleship "Sevastopol" - 181 meters for comparison), and the number of docks for the repair of long ships was very small. And therefore, it was decided to eliminate problems as they come, that is, sequentially.

They changed the shape of the forecastle, simply and unpretentiously cutting down the height of the tank superstructure from 3,25 meters to 2,25. per meter. The sides were given collapse to reduce the flooding of the forecastle. Did not help.


Then they began to move towards the stern everything that was behind the second tower. The bridge, foremast, conning tower and central post were shifted towards the stern.

The displacement of this entire complex of "buildings" entailed the elimination of one boiler room in the hold. That is, minus 4 boilers. It was not possible to compensate for the absence of four boilers and, accordingly, steam for turbines. In general, boilers should be of a mixed type, coal-oil, but it was decided to abandon coal-fired boilers and leave only oil ones.

In general, yes, more progressively, but the steam problem was not solved. And in fact, the course of the "Red Caucasus" was less than that of the "Red Crimea" and "Chervona Ukraine" by 4-5 knots.

Next, we decided to remove the Fram tanks - pitching dampers. Yes, the Black Sea is not famous for storms, but nevertheless, sedatives when shooting are very useful.

Lightened the mast. I mean, they made it smaller and lighter.

Then, in the leadership of the Navy, someone came up with a bright idea that ultra-long-range guns needed to be adjusted somehow! In general, it is logical, 40 km of distance is sometimes not visible from a shortened mast. And, of course, there were no radars then.

We decided to install the purchased Heinkel catapults and place the KOR-1 aircraft. "Red Caucasus" received one catapult and two aircraft. But this also required a place, plus a place for the aviation industry!

We started to search. Part of the stern superstructure was removed, the stern turbogenerators were moved to the tiller compartment, and a new place was found for provision storerooms.

The main mast also moved aft.

In the end, you understand that some other ship has turned out. Obviously not Svetlana anymore. Reservation, however, remains the same. Two armored belts, upper 25 mm and lower 75 mm, armored deck and traverses 20 mm, towers and barbettes - 25 mm.

The cruiser's displacement increased from 7 to 600 tons. And while the main armament consisted of four 9-mm guns. For comparison, with the same displacement, the Japanese cruisers Aoba and Furutaka carried 030 180-mm guns each.

And if you remember (pulling slightly) the heavy cruisers of the Deutschland type, in which the displacement went over 10 tons, but the main caliber of which consisted of 600 6-mm guns ...

In general, it turned out somewhat so-so.


Now let's talk about the tools more closely.


Why and where the 180-mm caliber came from is not so important now, the French before World War II dabbled in exotic 138, 164 and 194 mm. Rearranged 203 mm gun? Yes, there was such a task back in 1926, but in general it is not so important where the chief designer of the Bolshevik plant, K.K., Chernyavsky, took the caliber numbers from. It is important that the 180-mm gun re-barreled in this way was tested at the Rzhev training ground, but the idea of ​​​​a base for 203-mm barrels was discarded and it was decided to make 180-mm barrels anew. And the shells for them were already produced.

The gun was named B-1-K (with a Vickers wedge bolt). A lot of words were said about the new gun. The first Soviet gun. New generation weapon. Unique combat characteristics that surpassed world analogues (well, yes, one step to "having no analogues in the world", but in general the finale is just that). With a projectile mass of 97,5 kg and an initial speed of 920 m/s, the maximum firing range of the gun reached more than 40 km (225 cables). High rate of fire and so on.

Of the shortcomings, separate loading was noted, which significantly reduced the rate of fire. Moreover, one charge was in the sleeve, and the second - in the cap. Not the most practical layout.

And, as you understand, this was far from the only drawback of the gun.

The main drawback was simply the sad resource of the trunk itself. The gun had a simply fantastic limit of 70 shots with a full (sleeve + cap) charge, after which it was recommended to replace the barrel.

Of course, guns on ships do not always shoot at maximum distances, the ammunition load of each gun on the Krasny Kavkaz ranged from 175 to 196 shells, depending on the load, this is the amount that could be fired with a half charge. And then change the barrel anyway.

And yes, there was no barrel purge system.

In fact, this meant that the ballistics of guns with monobloc barrels changed significantly even in the process of one firing. Paying for the ability to shoot at 40 km ...

In general, everything is very strange. An image of a sort of sniper cruiser is drawn, which easily shoots enemy ships from great distances. Yes, in this case, he does not need a large number of volleys of ultra-precise and ultra-long-range guns, everything is decided by accuracy.

Fire control devices provide accuracy. Could something like this, ultra-modern, be installed on a Soviet ship in the 20-30s of the last century? Of course not. The country was under regular sanctions, so the fire control system was quite simple.

It got to the point that the towers did not have their own rangefinders and sights. All information came from two command and rangefinder posts on the masts. The information converged in the central fire control post, where it was processed using semi-automatic electromechanical devices. And from there, information in the form of vertical and horizontal guidance angles went to the towers.

That is, the failure of one of the links in this chain (KDP or PUAO) made the guns fall silent.

It turned out to be a sniper cruiser, but ... A comparison comes to mind with a fighter who has an SVD with a conventional rear sight. The rifle seems to be a sniper and long-range rifle, but there is zero sense in this. So the B-1-K guns, which fired at 40 km, were corrected with the help of rangefinder signalers, who would be guided by splashes from falling shells.

No, it's normal at sea. The splash gave an understanding of how the enemy ship was in the "fork". When firing at ground targets, often hidden by terrain folds, it all came down to shooting "somewhere in the direction of the enemy." In general, adjusting guns that fired at very long distances, and even with shells that did not have a large charge (an armor-piercing shell weighing 95 kg carried only 2 kg of explosives) is not an easy task.

In general, the naval command understood that the fighter from the "Red Caucasus" was still the same ... But they actively drove the ship on various representative visits. That is, the cruiser got into political service, with which he coped quite well.

In 1938-40, the ship underwent modernization. The navy really wanted to re-equip the ship, throwing out all the outdated (and it was just all outdated) artillery equipment in a landfill. But the People's Commissariat of the shipbuilding industry decided that "it will do," replacing only auxiliary artillery.

The cruiser received six (3 twins) 100 mm Skoda universal guns, which were good in the First World War, and four semi-automatic 45 mm 21K anti-aircraft guns.

And in this form, the "Red Caucasus" went to war



Before the war, in 1940, according to the report of Admiral Alafuzov, the ship was unfit for use as a training ship due to the fact that its artillery was in poor condition. It is possible that it was so, but the ship paid for itself in the political arena. At least, the construction by the Italians in Leningrad of a line for the production of liners is already quite a result.
And, in fact, what did the Black Sea Fleet have in terms of this ship?

In the "minuses": there is artillery of the Civil Code, but you can’t really use it, because the resource consumption of barrels. There is practically no anti-aircraft artillery, because this is a Soviet ship, we were disgusting with this throughout the war. Torpedo armament and equipment for minelaying on such a chest was completely unnecessary, besides, there was no one to lay mines. Not very impressive speed and maneuverability.

In the "pros": well trained and trained crew. Several years of trips to foreign countries, where to drop the prestige of the country was, if not like death, then definitely threatened everyone with trouble - this is normal. Plus, I would say that the crew with the commanders was lucky, and A. M. Gushchin, and V. N. Eroshenko were among those who were not afraid to make decisions, and made them thinking. In short, competent and not cowardly officers.

The case when one plus outweighed a bunch of minuses. Can't shoot the main one? Okay, let's use a helper. Six 100-mm barrels (although in order to use all six, you need to rake the ship in a certain way) is better than nothing anyway. They hit not at 40 km, but at 15? So landing operations are not a war at sea, on land there is relief, dust, smoke - first consider something beyond your nose.

Therefore, the cruiser became a landing barge. Yes, 180-mm guns were used, but really, very carefully. From 12 to 27 shots. The first combat shooting happened on September 12, 1941, near Odessa. Fired 27 rounds towards the enemy. The results... presumably.

But no one was going to save the resource of 100-mm guns, so the Skodas hit with all their heart, and the cost of shells was completely different. The cruiser's calculations gave from 200 to 400 shots per operation. They shot, of course, not at 40 km, but it was not much needed either.


The peak for the "Red Caucasus" was participation in the Kerch-Feodosiya landing operation. On December 29, 1941, having taken on board 1853 paratroopers, a battery of six 76-mm guns, 16 vehicles, ammunition and food, the Krasny Kavkaz left Novorossiysk as part of a detachment of ships and entered Feodosia Bay on the morning of December 30.

As part of the operation, the cruiser fired 4 main caliber rounds, firing 86 180-mm shells. 100 mm guns fired over 700 rounds.

The idea of ​​the operation was very dashing: the cruiser, firing from all barrels, bursts into the bay, suppresses German batteries and moored to berth No. 3 of the Wide Mole, where it began landing and unloading equipment. Suppressed enemy artillery means do not interfere with this.

In fact, everything turned out to be more complicated. The artillery raid, for which the cruiser fired 26 main battery shells, to put it mildly, had no results. It was not possible to moor on the first attempt (and on the second one too). Only after two hours of circling around the harbor, the "Red Caucasus" was able to moor to the pier. On the third try.

For two hours, everything that could shoot from the side of the Germans, fired at a really large ship moving at low speed around the bay, hitting it with all its heart. And given the good training of the German artillerymen, it hit. The watch log is a witness to this:

5:08 - hit by two mortar mines;
5:15 - hit by a projectile, presumably 88 mm. No damage;
5:21 - a projectile, presumably with a caliber of 150 mm, pierces the frontal armor of the 2nd main turret and explodes inside. The calculation dies in full force, a fire starts. Emergency belt teams put out the fire and after 1,5 hours the tower is combat-ready again;
5:35 - a projectile, presumably 105-mm, and two mortar mines burst on the bridge. Most of the people on the bridge die;
5:45 - the shell exploded in the hull in the area of ​​the 83rd frame;
7:07 - hit on the left side in the area of ​​the 50th frame;
7:17 - another shell hit in the area of ​​the 50th frame;
7:30 - hit in the area of ​​the 60th frame;
7:31 - presumably a 105-mm projectile hit the conning tower, the armor was not pierced;
7:35 - hit in the area of ​​42 frames;
7:39 - three shells hit the tank superstructure.

8:08 - having completed the landing (all 1 people were on the shore), but without unloading the equipment, the cruiser began a maneuver to enter the roadstead. Very timely, because at 583:9 German planes arrived, which during the day made 25 attacks on the ship. The team was on top and the Germans failed to get into the ship.

On December 31, during the day, the crew of the Krasny Kavkaz unloaded equipment while in the roadstead of Feodosia. Artillery continued to work on the Germans on the shore, supporting the actions of the paratroopers.

On January 1, the cruiser sets course for Novorossiysk.


During the landing in the crew of the "Red Caucasus", 27 people died, 66 were injured. In total, the cruiser received 12 shell and 5 mine hits, 8 fires, 7 holes in the hull, and internal mechanisms were damaged.

January 4, 1942, with 1200 people, equipment and ammunition, the "Red Caucasus" again arrived in Feodosia. Not even repaired, but only literally, putting patches. It was not possible to unload everything before dawn, and in the morning the ship was attacked by a German aviation. The cruiser standing at the pier turned out to be an easy target and the Luftwaffe pilots were able to lay 4 bombs at the side of the ship.

250-kg bombs made 3 large holes in the stern, through which water gushed. However, the crew coped with the flow of water, set in motion and brought the ship to the roadstead. There, the "Red Caucasus" was attacked by a group of Ju-88s with 500-kg bombs, one of which exploded at the aft end. The right propeller was torn off, the left propeller bracket was bent, and the steering jammed. The flow of water began again, with which the ship eventually took about 1700 tons.

Not a single memoir will convey what befell the crew, I will not even try. For a day, the ship crawled 300 kilometers from Feodosia to Tuapse, but in the end, in the conditions of a storm that broke out, the Red Caucasus was able to restore speed and control and reach Tuapse. Bad weather played into the hands of the sailors, the enemy planes did not bother.

The repair of the ship in the conditions that the docks for ships of this class remained in Sevastopol is a separate heroic story.


That's really - if you want to live - you won't get so upset. I don’t know if there were still cases in world practice when a dock designed for 9 tons was pulled onto a ship with a displacement of 000 tons, but ours were able to. And they repaired the ship.

Based on the results of military activity, once again: 14 thousand miles on campaigns, 25 thousand soldiers there, wounded servicemen and civilians from Odessa and Sevastopol back, more than 400 pieces of guns, mortars, trucks, 2 tons of ammunition - this is a very weighty contribution to the common cause.

But the question arises: is it a cruising business at all - to carry ammunition and land troops?


Of course not. The business of the cruiser is to provide landings, escort transports, protecting them from enemy ships and aircraft, suppress coastal batteries with the fire of their guns, and so on.

But for this, the "Red Caucasus" was not adapted at all. It can, of course, be said with certainty that he had no rivals at sea, and not lie at all. But on land, there were more than enough of them. Well, the ship is not the best artillery platform for firing at dynamic targets on the coast, but nonetheless.

The fight against aircraft is not about our ships at all. Air defense was the weakest side of the Soviet ships from the battleship to the minesweeper. The ancient 100-mm universals and 45-mm semi-autos are more to indicate the "repulse of the attack" of enemy aircraft. Something similar to the air defense at the "Red Caucasus" appeared after the overhaul, but there was no longer any sense, the ship began to be protected, according to Stalin's directive. And there was no longer any need for landing operations, the ground army coped on its own.

So what kind of cruiser was built with us?


And he was not a cruiser. In fact, the Krasny Kavkaz is an experimental vessel built to test the latest 180-mm B-1-K artillery system. And except for the "Red Caucasus", the B-1-K guns were no longer used on any ship. Precisely because the operation of the B-1-K revealed many problems. The pursuit of a record range turned out to be, like many similar projects, an empty business. But such were the times, there is nothing to condemn here.

And instead of B-1-K, completely different guns, B-026-P, went on the cruisers of project 026 and 1-bis. It must be emphasized in bold, these are COMPLETELY different guns, they even had different shells with B-1-K. We can say that the 180-mm gun was created anew: it already had liners from the Italians from Ansaldo, the barrel length was reduced by 3 calibers, that is, by 0,54 meters, which completely changed the ballistics of the projectile. They deepened the rifling and - lo and behold! - barrel resource increased to 300 shots. And plus a piston valve.

Yes, the firing range instead of 40-41 km was 36-37 km, but there was no need to worry about every shot. It's worth a lot. And in any case, a cruiser firing a 180-mm projectile weighing about 97 kg is not like a battleship sending almost half a ton of ingots at the same distance.

And now it's time to ask a question: the author, what did you want to convey in general?


Actually, everything I wanted to say, I said. Once again I paid tribute to the simply delightful crew of the Krasny Kavkaza and a few words about how it is customary for us to present information.

In fact, it doesn't make much difference what the ship was. What matters is what the crew could do with it. But you must admit, it’s one thing to read stories about a heroic cruiser that didn’t really have artillery, air defense, and which was used throughout the war as a landing barge, and quite another if we are talking about an experimental ship, which the “Red Caucasus” was.

In general, according to the letters of the Washington (first) treaty, the "Red Caucasus" is not a cruiser at all. Both in Washington and London in 1930 it was clearly spelled out: a ship with weapons FROM four guns caliber FROM 152 mm.

By the way, this gave rise to a very original class of ships: American Erie-class gunboats.


Ships with a displacement of 2000 tons (our destroyer "Seven" has a capacity of 1500 tons, if anything) and armed with four 152-mm guns. Plus four "Chicago pianos" (anti-aircraft machine 4 x 28 mm) and four "Oerlikon" 20 mm. In general, the project was very interesting, minus only in a frankly low speed (20 knots), but this was stated in the 1930 Agreement.

So how much the "Red Caucasus" was a cruiser at all, you can break feathers to this day.


And it’s a completely different question that they took an experimental ship with a good crew and used it during the war. That is, the question is exclusively in the presentation of the material.

However, if you look at the "Red Caucasus" as a cruiser, this is definitely one of the worst and weakest cruisers of that time in all respects. And if, as on an experimental vessel, everything turned out well. And the armies helped, and the guns were tested.

But, of course, the history of the "Red Caucasus" is a story about how not to build ships. Or adjust. "On the knee" and in pursuit of meaningless records. Moreover, everything said is relevant today, moreover, it is more relevant than ever. With regard to all our exhibition "unparalleled ...", and therefore not appearing in the army, weapons.

History clearly goes in a spiral, only different conclusions are drawn at different times.
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95 comments
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  1. +23
    August 22 2023
    "Guards cruiser Red Caucasus" is my reference book. In those conditions of complete devastation, it was a breakthrough not only in shipbuilding. Well, yes, the guns were unsuccessful, experiments were also needed, then they turned out even excellent.
    I am waiting for the next article by a respected Author like "How not to build a tanker" about the conversion of unfinished tsarist cruisers into tankers. There is also a book about this. Here are the fools, the Soviet shipbuilders!¿
    1. +19
      August 22 2023
      The article is about nothing. Everyone knows that GvKrKrKav was not a masterpiece of shipbuilding. The fact that they tried to somehow "bring up" the performance characteristics to modern requirements is also understandable. The fact that during the war the ships are engaged not in what they were built for, but in what is needed right now, is also understandable.
  2. +6
    August 22 2023
    5:08 - hit by two mortar mines;
    Indeed, everything that could shoot was fired.
    1. +8
      August 22 2023
      Quote: Andrey Moskvin
      5:08 - hit by two mortar mines;
      Indeed, everything that could shoot was fired.

      So the cruiser moored for two hours to the Wide Mole, which was only a couple of cables from the German positions.
    2. 0
      August 25 2023
      Considering that the water area of ​​the Feodosia port is quite small, this is not surprising, simply based on the theory of probability, something will hit.
  3. -8
    August 22 2023
    Thanks for the article, all the same, we really like to go our own way in the wrong place ...
    1. +15
      August 22 2023
      They did not go their own way, but where the possibilities of the project and industry allowed. No one would build such a ship if there was such an opportunity.
  4. +17
    August 22 2023
    I remembered the post of the 20th year about German light cruisers (k means bad), and there the author also walked through the cruisers, saying that they showed themselves well as landing ships. So the question about the worst cruiser is open.
    P.S.
    And it’s just interesting how the “Red Crimea” in the battle with the “Red Caucasus” could use all 15 130mm guns (is it really the snake method?)
  5. 0
    August 22 2023
    The artillery raid, for which the cruiser fired 26 main battery shells, to put it mildly, had no results. It was not possible to moor on the first attempt (and on the second one too). Only after two hours of circling around the harbor, the "Red Caucasus" was able to moor to the pier. On the third try.


    And how does this fit in with the passage about "a well-trained crew"? What was this crew trained for? To scrub coppers?
    1. -1
      August 22 2023
      Quote from: Barmaglot_07
      And how does this fit in with the passage about "a well-trained crew"? What was this crew trained for? To scrub coppers?

      It is said the diplomatic service
  6. +5
    August 22 2023
    At first I thought Kaptsov! The manner of presentation of the novel is similar in some way. The article is interesting, thanks.
    1. 0
      August 23 2023
      And I was not mistaken. The title seems to imply...
  7. +10
    August 22 2023
    The cruiser "Red Caucasus" during the repair and restoration work in the floating dock number 1064. Poti, 1942
  8. +24
    August 22 2023
    Good morning Roman!
    Thanks for the article about one of the heroic Black Sea cruisers.
    Just a couple of notes:
    A range of 40 km is for an initial speed of 1000 m / s. At the same speed, the survivability of the barrel is about 50 shots (with the criterion of reducing the muzzle velocity of the projectile by 4%). When the ballistics were corrected and 920 m / s received, the survivability increased to 70 shots with the same criteria. This is all for small cuts.
    For project 26, the fine liner initially gave the same results - 70 shots. However, by applying a large cut and increasing the criterion to 10% of the drop in the initial velocity of the projectile, we got the notorious 300 shots.
    The range at the same time decreased, but the accuracy of the battle increased.
    Now about why the 180-mm caliber was needed at all, and even with outstanding ballistics. The naval forces of the Red Army had a task - shelling the White Guard landing on the Black Sea without entering the zone of return fire. The Yavuz was taken as the maximum ship with its 28-cm artillery and rather modest deck armor, which should have been hit from a distance of 180 - 210 cab. armor-piercing projectile weighing a centner. All solutions in calibers 203-254 mm turned out to be cumbersome, and 152 mm "did not pull" in terms of armor penetration. And so this conditionally seven-inch projectile weighing 97 kg with an initial speed of 1000 m / s appeared. Well, the metric system adopted in the USSR standardized the 180-mm caliber.
    1. +2
      August 22 2023
      From what I read, our Black Sea Fleet was sharpened to fight Yavuz.
    2. +1
      August 25 2023
      Caliber 7 inches, 178 - mm., Used in some fleets. So they could take the finished barrel and fit the tower mechanisms under it.
  9. +29
    August 22 2023
    In general, the naval command understood that the fighter from the "Red Caucasus" was still the same ... But they actively drove the ship on various representative visits.

    Several years of trips to foreign countries, where to drop the prestige of the country was, if not like death, then definitely threatened everyone with trouble - this is normal.

    During its service from 1932 to 1955, the cruiser "Red Caucasus" made one (!) Foreign trip lasting three weeks. In 1933, a detachment of Black Sea Fleet ships made a courtesy visit to Turkey, Greece and Italy.
    Well, at the end of November 1933, the "Red Caucasus" went to sea to meet the Turkish ship "Izmir", on which the People's Commissar of the Navy K. E. Voroshilov and his deputy S. M. Budyonny were returning from Turkey, where they participated in the celebration of the decade of the Turkish republics. They were accompanied by the commander of the Turkish army.
    This is where the story of "several years of trips abroad" of this ship ends.
  10. 0
    August 22 2023
    No need to call the great commander Tukhachevsky a fool. He stood at the origins of the tank power of the USSR, which was copied by the Nazis. The idea of ​​​​lightning tank strikes by mechanized corps is the development of Tukhachevsky. This system helped the USSR survive in 1941. Not always successful, but it took the most important thing from the Nazis - time. Tukhachevsky also stood at the origins of Katyusha. And many more. It is not our business to condemn such people. All the more to call fools.
  11. +22
    August 22 2023
    author, and what are you doing ...?

    The entire article is written in the style:
    Every now and then I hear: "Herzen failed...", "Witte miscalculated...", "Jores did not take into account...", "Tolstoy misunderstood..."

    Unfortunately, with the spread of the Internet and the emergence of a mass of bloggers - "near-historians", this trouble has affected many people of the past who cannot stand up for themselves.
    1. +18
      August 22 2023
      Quote: Ermak_Timofeich
      The entire article is written in the style:
      Every now and then I hear: "Herzen failed...", "Witte miscalculated...", "Jores did not take into account...", "Tolstoy misunderstood..."

      Exactly.

      or how not to build ships

      "Expert solution"...
      The ship was built in the worst years of 1927-1931. The mere fact that it was completed and commissioned into the Navy, was repeatedly modernized and performed excellent combat service - this is already a miracle, already a feat!
      1. +3
        August 22 2023
        Quote: Doccor18
        The ship was built in the worst years of 1927-1931. The mere fact that it was completed and commissioned into the Navy, was repeatedly modernized and performed excellent combat service - this is already a miracle, already a feat!

        I do not agree with you, just as the sisterships "Red Crimea" and "Chervona Ukraine" will not agree either. It was possible to complete the ship without "breaking" the original project much faster and cheaper. And as a result, they would have received an outdated, but quite balanced ship. And more suitable for various upgrades by the way hi
        1. +4
          August 22 2023
          Quote: Adrey
          I do not agree with you

          As I... hi

          Quote: Adrey
          It was possible to complete the ship without "breaking" the original project much faster and cheaper.

          It was possible, but pay attention to the composition of the Soviet Navy at that time. In 1941, the fleet had only 9 cruisers (including 2 training ones) ... Under such conditions, the desire of the Soviet command to have ships with a larger caliber is more understandable ..
          1. 0
            August 22 2023
            Quote: Doccor18
            In 1941, the fleet had only 9 cruisers

            If we take the 41st, then interesting "monsters" of the "Kirov" type with 9 180-mm ones are already in the ranks. And if in 1927-33, when "it is necessary that it be, and it should be fast", then there is no need to "fence the garden" with a very dubious "modernization" of the "Red Caucasus" and complete the ship according to the original project hi
            1. +12
              August 22 2023
              Quote: Adrey
              And if in 1927-33, when "it is necessary that it be, and it should be fast", then there is no need to "fence the garden" with a very dubious "modernization" of the "Red Caucasus" and complete the ship according to the original project

              And then we would have received Project 26 with B-1-K guns. That would be an epic with the replacement of as many as 18 barrels ... Or even 36 - taking into account the fact that the 26s were put into operation for a long time, and the guns for the next pair of 26 bis could well have been ordered before processing the operating experience of the guns on the first pair 26th and the decision to replace. They might well not have been in time with the rearmament of the Civil Code of the four CDs before the start of the war.

              And so on the "KyrKava" they gained invaluable experience in operating the first pancake in real ship conditions by a combatant team - and abandoned the gun before they started building Project 26.
              1. 0
                August 22 2023
                Quote: Alexey RA
                And so on the "KyrKava" they gained invaluable experience in operating the first pancake in real ship conditions by a combatant team - and abandoned the gun before they started building Project 26.

                Expensive experience as a result turned out request. Well, it was like it was. No one is immune from mistakes. Look at the amers, how they screwed up with their littoral series.
                Anyway, I think that the third cruiser of the "Svetlana" type, without unstoppable modernization, would be more useful in the Black Sea Fleet in the Second World War hi
                and abandoned the gun before they started building Project 26.

                And the gun was initially more than dubious (rather "raw"). To make sure of this, it was not necessary to shove it into the cruiser with the main caliberrequest
                1. +9
                  August 22 2023
                  Quote: Adrey
                  Expensive experience as a result turned out

                  And what to do - there was no other ready-made case of suitable sizes.
                  Quote: Adrey
                  Anyway, I think that the third cruiser of the "Svetlana" type, without unstoppable modernization, would be more useful in the Black Sea Fleet in the Second World War

                  And what's the difference on what troops to transport? smile Unless the unmodernized "KyrKav" with one hundred and thirty tanks would be used by the command with less regard for "whatever happens."
                  Quote: Adrey
                  And the gun was initially more than dubious. To make sure of this, it is not necessary to shove it into the cruiser

                  Necessarily. And be sure to give it into the hands of the average l / s. smile
                  And then on tests by experienced teams in field conditions, everything is usually fine. And when it comes to real service, then the rollers from the shoulder strap of the tower slide and are cut by the edge of the shoulder strap, because the designers did not provide for a thrust ring with rollers from the displacement of the tower during pitching, then the dispersion of shells is wildest, because the weights of serial shells and charges walk even within one party. smile
                  1. -1
                    August 22 2023
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Unless the unmodernized "KyrKav" with one hundred and thirty tanks would be used by the command with less regard for "whatever happens."

                    Exactly. Although, the result was not guaranteed. In general, the actions of the Black Sea Fleet in the Second World War are a very interesting story. Worthy not only of an article, but of a whole monograph at least. hi
                    Quote: Alexey RA
                    Quote: Adrey
                    Expensive experience as a result turned out

                    And what to do - there was no other ready-made case of suitable sizes.
                    Quote: Adrey
                    Anyway, I think that the third cruiser of the "Svetlana" type, without unstoppable modernization, would be more useful in the Black Sea Fleet in the Second World War

                    And what's the difference on what troops to transport? smile Unless the unmodernized "KyrKav" with one hundred and thirty tanks would be used by the command with less regard for "whatever happens."
                    Quote: Adrey
                    And the gun was initially more than dubious. To make sure of this, it is not necessary to shove it into the cruiser

                    Necessarily. And be sure to give it into the hands of the average l / s. smile
                    And then on tests by experienced teams in field conditions, everything is usually fine. And when it comes to real service, then the rollers from the shoulder strap of the tower slide and are cut by the edge of the shoulder strap, because the designers did not provide for a thrust ring with rollers from the displacement of the tower during pitching, then the dispersion of shells is wildest, because the weights of serial shells and charges walk even within one party. smile

                    Well, yes, it's ours. Although, others also suffered with this "mom don't cry" request hi
                    1. +4
                      August 23 2023
                      Quote: Adrey
                      Well, yes, it's ours.

                      Heh heh heh... that's right not our way. smile
                      The track rollers from the turret ring were slipping off the "Rodney" with the "Nelson" - and the turret structure had to be supplemented with a horizontal stubborn shoulder strap with rollers. And on the ships already handed over to the fleet. They cut, as they say, alive.
                      And excellent results at the training ground and a heartbreaking spectacle in the series were shown by Italian guns. The reason is the lack of control over the weights of shells and charges both in production and when shells are accepted by the fleet. For the problem could be solved by sorting the shells and charges into several batches with approximately similar weights and introducing an amendment for the average weight of a particular batch when firing. And then Supermarine would have only had the problem of a spread in charge temperatures due to problems with cooling the cellars (either technical or due to the human factor).
                      The limes also had a problem with the accuracy of the guns of the BS GK KRL - theoretically solving it, the shift of the middle gun did not help in practice. The problem was also found only on a live cruiser. Well, at least I didn’t have to cut it - they managed with shot delay coils.
                      So that:
                      Quote: Adrey
                      and others suffered with this "mom don't cry"
                      1. 0
                        August 23 2023
                        I wanted to write about it, but I was too lazy request. Just as an example, give the GC "Prince of Wales". And it really could have ended badly. "Bismarck" would not have choked on the second frag.
                      2. 0
                        August 23 2023
                        Quote: Adrey
                        Just as an example, give the GC "Prince of Wales".

                        "Prince" is not worth it - there the ship was thrown into battle even before the completion of the adjustment of all systems. They handed him over to the fleet half-finished, without a working main battery - which was handed over only a month before the release.
                        It is better to take "King" in the same battle - the same problems. And the most relish is the "Duke of York" in the battle with "Charles". The end of 1943, a combatant ship - and misses of volleys as in 1941 on the raw "Prince".
                        Quote: Adrey
                        And it really could have ended badly. "Bismarck" would not have choked on the second frag.

                        The "Prince" was saved by a smoke curtain - the Germans did not dare to climb into the smoke if there were limes nearby (possibly with torpedoes). Yes, and the Bismarck itself began to have problems with the course due to the flooding of one KO and the partial exposure of one propeller.
                      3. 0
                        August 23 2023
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        They handed him over to the fleet half-finished, without a working main battery - which was handed over only a month before the release.

                        In general, the situation is fire there: on the evening of May 18, Lich came to Tovey and stated that he considered his ship combat-ready, and he agreed with the Armstrong gunsmiths: they would complete the towers "on the go", so to speak.

                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        The "Prince" was saved by a smoke curtain - the Germans did not dare to climb into the smoke if there were limes nearby (possibly with torpedoes).

                        Why fantasize? :)
                        What happened in the Bismarck's conning tower is not known for certain.
                        As for the KRT, they were behind the stern of the German detachment and were quite observed for themselves.

                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        Yes, and the Bismarck itself began to have problems with the course due to the flooding of one KO and the partial exposure of one propeller.

                        I don’t know what problems the Bismarck had, but judging by the schedule of the Eugen, the German detachment from 07:00 to 18:00 (the Eugen squad) was moving at a 27-knot course. The speed was reduced from about 08:00 to 09:00 to 25 knots - probably they were trying to patch holes in the nose.
                      4. 0
                        August 24 2023
                        Quote: Macsen_Wledig
                        In general, the situation is fire there: on the evening of May 18, Lich came to Tovey and stated that he considered his ship combat-ready, and he agreed with the Armstrong gunsmiths: they would complete the towers "on the go", so to speak.

                        Despite the fact that the towers were officially handed over on April 27.
                        It was not in vain that the Prince left on his first trip with 100 Vickers Armstrong specialists on board. smile
                        Quote: Macsen_Wledig
                        I don’t know what problems the Bismarck had, but judging by the schedule of the Eugen, the German detachment from 07:00 to 18:00 (the Eugen squad) was moving at a 27-knot course.

                        Well, you remember about the trim on the nose (3 degrees), the roll to the port side (9 degrees) and the decrease in maximum speed to 28 knots. Plus the ongoing flooding of KO No. 2 (boilers in which, as a result, had to be taken out of action) and generator No. 4.
                      5. 0
                        August 24 2023
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        Well, you remember about the trim on the nose (3 degrees), the roll to the port side (9 degrees) and the decrease in maximum speed to 28 knots.

                        Here is this: if there are no complaints about 28 knots, then the numbers 3 and 9 degrees are only in the memoirs of the well-known baron.
                        Other sources, which I have more confidence in than the baron's writings, give figures of 1 and 2-3 degrees for trim and roll, respectively.

                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        Plus the ongoing flooding of KO No. 2 (boilers in which, as a result, had to be taken out of action) and generator No. 4.

                        Power plant No. 4 was withdrawn immediately, due to flooding, and KO No. 2 of the left side was withdrawn after a night torpedo attack by Swordfish.
                      6. -1
                        August 24 2023
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        The end of 1943, a combatant ship - and misses of volleys as in 1941 on the raw "Prince".

                        Sketch. Missing main battery salvos is a common thing if these misses are not 2/3 of the total number of attempts. American field experiments on shooting the entire ammo at speed also showed missed volleys.

                        Problems begin if main battery salvos disable their own ship. How do you know who happened.
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        it's just not our way

                        Many sach cases. With things much easier than a ship.
                      7. The comment was deleted.
                      8. 0
                        August 24 2023
                        Quote: Negro
                        Sketch. Missing main battery salvos is a common thing if these misses are not 2/3 of the total number of attempts.

                        Well, "Duke" in 1943 did not give "Charles" only 30% of the shells. smile
                      9. 0
                        August 24 2023
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        missed "Charles" only 30% of the shells

                        Details. Enough is fine.
                      10. 0
                        August 26 2023
                        What saved the "Prince of Wales" we will never know, because the answer to this question went to the bottom of the Atlantic, in the Bismarck's conning tower.
        2. 0
          August 25 2023
          Balanced ship? Which at the time of design was already considered obsolete. There was no point in modernizing the Comintern at all, it was from 1905. Red Crimea - apparently decided not to experiment.
  12. 0
    August 22 2023
    The pursuit of records is a big misfortune of the USSR, especially the early one. How many people died because of this, how many resources were ruined... People still did not understand how to live in the new world. In the world of capitalism, standing out means getting rich. And in the USSR? What to do, what to strive for? And a lot of people set their sights on all sorts of records...
    1. +4
      August 22 2023
      With strong upholding in quantity, the bet on the best is justified.
      When there is a lot of everything, the emphasis is on reliability and ease of operation and repair.
      1. +4
        August 22 2023
        The record is not the best. It's unique. To bet on the unique - to fail all the work with a roar, to destroy everything and everyone in any mass production and continuous process. There was such a pilot - Rychagov. Remember?
        The pilot was fantastic, unique. He wrote with boiling water, trying to ban the installation of walkie-talkies on airplanes. The walkie-talkie interfered with HIM - it distracted him from performing unique tricks. At that moment, he held a very high position in the VSS, which he received for records and miracles. How many Soviet pilots do you think died for not smelling tobacco, because they didn’t have radios in their cockpits? How many people died on earth due to the fact that aviation did not complete its combat mission?
        This was one of Stalin's greatest mistakes - not betting the champions. Record holders do not understand the difficulties of ordinary people. They simply cannot - they have no such difficulties. I'm always the first to start from a traffic light. On the Volga) I have such a reaction, better than most. And earlier it was generally believed that the reaction is not trained. Now the methods have been found, but they still will not help many. And what? Make driving regulations for me? The fool will...
        1. +7
          August 22 2023
          Quote: Mikhail3
          The pilot was fantastic, unique. He wrote with boiling water, trying to ban the installation of walkie-talkies on airplanes. The walkie-talkie interfered with HIM - it distracted him from performing unique tricks.

          The radio then interfered with everyone. Because it worked perfectly only on experimental machines licked by qualified specialists .. And on serial aircraft, design flaws and build quality of serial radios were summed up with the manufacturing quality of the aircraft themselves (especially after the mobilization of the aviation industry in early 1940, when bringing marriage to 50% was great achievement) and multiplied by service in combat units. It was especially bad in fighter aircraft, where radios in flight, apart from interference, often received nothing.
          1. 0
            August 23 2023
            Who said interfered?) Helped less than she could. About marriage - this is generally about the entire Soviet industry. It was not possible to establish interaction and proper motivation. Alas, the USSR did not cope with this problem to the end, as it failed to establish a good work of the governing structures. There were too many champions in them, "honored people" who did not understand the assigned task with their ears or snouts, but constantly brandished their past achievements. For them, marriage, chaos and general failures were heaven. Their own shoals were not so noticeable against the general background.
            And what, because of this, it was necessary to abandon the introduction of advanced technology? To go into battle in skins and with clubs, because the rest is "too complicated" and you can't release it without marriage? Weird argument...
        2. PPD
          +3
          August 22 2023
          There was such a pilot - Rychagov. Remember?.........
          distracted from performing unique tricks.

          But nothing that the phrase is attributed to him - "we will not figure!"?
          Yes, and about walkie-talkies, ask, a lot of unexpected things can come up laughing
          1. +4
            August 22 2023
            Quote: PPD
            But nothing that the phrase is attributed to him - "we will not figure!"?

            And this phrase applied only to combat pilots.
            Which, being chained to the ground due to constant delays in the supply of fuel (Novikov officially reported in December 1940 that the Air Force of the LVO, due to lack of gasoline, annually sit on the ground from July, and sometimes from June to August inclusive) and shortages training aircraft, lost their qualifications, but at the same time continued to consider themselves aces of aerobatics - on which they regularly died.
          2. 0
            August 23 2023
            I was interested) And the attributed phrase does not reflect the course of action, alas.
  13. +1
    August 22 2023
    The level of current engineers and managers is even lower. I’m generally silent about the team - Moscow is a witness to this
  14. +7
    August 22 2023
    the French before World War II dabbled in exotic 138, 164 and 194 mm.


    Dear author, perhaps French guns 138, 164 and 194 mm are exotic for you. The French themselves did not think so and quite successfully developed guns of these calibers until the First World War.

    However, if you look at the "Red Caucasus" as a cruiser, this is definitely one of the worst and weakest cruisers of that time in all respects. And if, as on an experimental vessel, everything turned out well.


    Any experienced warship becomes a combat ship in the event of a war, and the Red Caucasus was not the worst and weakest cruiser. See the British use of 1912-1920 built cruisers in World War II.
    1. +10
      August 22 2023
      Quote: 27091965i
      Dear author, perhaps French guns 138, 164 and 194 mm are exotic for you. The French themselves did not think so and quite successfully developed guns of these calibers until the First World War.


      For the French, these calibers come from the sailing fleet - for example, 138mm is a 16-pound gun - so for them this is a centuries-old tradition, and not exotic at all.
      1. +2
        August 22 2023
        Quote from: Barmaglot_07
        For the French, these calibers come from the sailing fleet - for example, 138mm is a 16-pound gun - so for them this is a centuries-old tradition, and not exotic at all

        You are right, it really was. The transition to 150-155 mm caliber guns began to be discussed in 1906-1907.
      2. +7
        August 22 2023
        Quote from: Barmaglot_07
        For the French, these calibers come from the sailing fleet - for example, 138mm is a 16-pound gun - so for them this is a centuries-old tradition, and not exotic at all.

        The French just took another row of pounds. If they had taken the duodecimal - 12 lbs and 24 lbs - they would have received 120-mm and 152-mm guns. smile
  15. +15
    August 22 2023
    Well, let's start with the fact that the 15 130-mm Svet was not on board. There were 8 on board. For the artillery on them was located along the sides, like on most light cruisers of the WWI (except for the last English ones). Further, the fire control system on the "original" "Svetlanas" remained quite dense by the standards of the 30s. Yes, at short range, perhaps 8 130-k would have an advantage over 4 180-mm with a more modern fire control system, but they still had to get close to it.
    9800 tons for the Red Caucasus is the full displacement. 10600 tons for the Deutschlands is standard. Miracles don't happen.
    They wanted 180 mm even before the revolution, incl. for coastal defense. Theoretically, such a projectile could still be loaded manually. For large-caliber German naval artillery, in general, such a loading scheme was typical - partly in a sleeve, partly in a cap, because they preferred a wedge bolt on large guns, so here the B-1K, strictly speaking, has nothing special. Another thing is that this did not apply to the Russian / Soviet fleet, so on Project 26 they returned to purely cap loading.
    It is now clear that trying to fit turrets into an old cruiser that was originally not supposed to have them was really not a very good idea. It got to the point that they were going to rearm the Red Caucasus with B-2LM towers! Before the war, development began on a deck-mounted 152-mm electrified installation with a box-shaped tower-like shield and feed through the central pin. It was intended to arm mobilized ships (auxiliary cruisers). The swinging part was supposed to be unified with that of light cruisers (B-38) and the coastal installation created in parallel, but in the end the barrel created for the coastal installation was quite different from the cruising one. It seems that something similar with 2 130s in one cradle would be more optimal weapons for Svetlana. 4 such installations in a linearly elevated scheme would make it possible to have a salvo comparable to Aretuza (6 mm).
    1. +5
      August 22 2023
      Quite right. There was even a rearmament project, in fact, it is in the RGAVMF, with drawings. It was planned to rearm all Svetlanas in this way. With four BL-2-LM turrets as a main gun. But with 152 mm it did not grow together. Initially, there was an idea to put 4 MK-4 turrets in a lightweight version with B-38 guns, but it turned out (suddenly) that Svetlanas were too small for them. And yes, they began to develop a tower-like shield two-gun mount unified with the MU-2, but the war got in the way. She was never made.
      1. +2
        August 23 2023
        There was also a project for the completion of Butakov with 4 B-2LM as a training cruiser, but while they were thinking, the ship had finally become unusable.
        Yes, the coastal 152-mm was completed after the war, but then they no longer saw a great need for it. MK-4, it seems to me, would be difficult even for the Red Caucasus, which was already overloaded. But - yes, they were seriously developed on the basis of the "anti-mine" caliber of battleships and heavy cruisers.
  16. +10
    August 22 2023
    Without the B-1-K artillery gun, there would have been no MK-3 gun, and without it there would have been no project 26, 26 bis.
    Soviet shipbuilding learned as it paved its way.
  17. +6
    August 22 2023
    After videos about the action of the British fleet near Crete, you look at the Black Sea Fleet differently. There, the Angles, having incomparably more powerful forces, lost 4 cruisers, 6 destroyers and 2 battleships from aviation due to damage.
    1. +8
      August 22 2023
      Quote: certero
      After videos about the action of the British fleet near Crete, you look at the Black Sea Fleet differently. There, the Angles, having incomparably more powerful forces, lost 4 cruisers, 6 destroyers and 2 battleships from aviation due to damage.

      So the Germans near Crete had incomparably more powerful forces - the entire 8th Air Corps.
      And in the first days of the Feodosia landing, "things" were not used at all on ships - the Germans threw them against the advancing army.
      ... as soon as it dawned, German aviation began to actively strike at the Feodosia port. The main forces of the bombers based in the Crimea were sent here: Heinkels He 111 of the 3rd group of the 27th bomber squadron, Junkers Ju 88 from the 2nd and 3rd groups of the 51st bomber squadron, as well as dive bombers Ju 87 from the 77th assault squadron under the cover of the Messerschmitts of the 3rd group of the 77th fighter squadron.

      In total, dive bombers made 70 sorties that day, twin-engine bombers - 52 sorties, cover fighters - 64 sorties. Contrary to popular belief, the Stukas did not attack ships in the port, but the advancing Soviet troops near Petrovka and Vladislavovka.
      © Warspot. Vladislav Goncharov. Theodosian landing: a lost victory.
    2. +2
      August 22 2023
      For us, this would mean the loss of almost a fleet. The British did not hesitate to go to the end to achieve their goals. And ours, in general, too. When it was required.
  18. 0
    August 22 2023
    And instead of B-1-K, completely different guns, B-026-P, went on the cruisers of project 026 and 1-bis. It must be emphasized boldly, these are COMPLETELY different weapons

    Quite, but not quite.
    The 180 mm B-1-P naval gun is a Soviet naval gun of 180 mm caliber. Developed on the basis of the 180 mm B-1-K gun.

    The evil genius of our fool from the army and navy of the first red marshal Tukhachevsky intervened. It was he (or one of his specialists) who came up with the idea of ​​building a cruiser-sniper with artillery capable of firing at long distances.

    And such cruisers were projects 26 and 26bis.
    And the appearance of 180 mm guns in the Red Caucasus is a necessary measure.
    The project of an 180-mm cannon with record-breaking characteristics was put forward in 1925 by the chief designer of the Bolshevik plant, K.K. Chernyavsky. It was supposed to create a gun with a barrel length of 60 calibers. With an initial speed of a 100-kg projectile of 1000 m/s and a pressure of powder gases in the barrel of about 4000 kg/cm, the firing range had to reach at least 200 cables. The order for the gun was issued in 1927. ... Tests were carried out at the Rzhevsky training ground from August 6, 1930 and revealed the impossibility of creating a weapon with the declared characteristics [4].
  19. +1
    August 22 2023
    "From four" and "from 152 mm" is the same as "starting with", isn't it? Otherwise it would be "more than four" and so on.
  20. +9
    August 22 2023
    But the question arises: is it a cruising business at all - to carry ammunition and land troops?

    "If you want to live, you’re not so heated" request .
    If sclerosis does not change me, in my opinion "Manxman" among the Britons has earned an honorary nickname "Savior of Malta", but also a cruiser-minzag. And he earned this title not by mine laying near this island, but precisely as a supply ship with "essentials". The fact that "you need it yesterday", and not when the next convoy crawls in a couple of months.
    Here the coincidence of the performance characteristics of the ship and the task at hand played a role.
    Extreme for this type (about 43 knots) speed. Allowing you to "skip" the air threat zone during the hours of darkness, and be a very difficult target for submarines.
    Good weapons, first of all, completely universal, allowing you to fight off aircraft well.
    And the icing on the cake, the presence of a large, free and completely closed mine deck. On which you can cram almost any kind of cargo and in considerable quantity.
    Something like this hi
    1. +2
      August 22 2023
      Quote: Adrey

      Adrey (Andrey)
      3
      Today, 12: 12
      -1
      But the question arises: is it a cruising business at all - to carry ammunition and land troops?

      Interesting, "-" for what? For knowing history? laughing
    2. +8
      August 22 2023
      Quote: Adrey
      If sclerosis does not change me, in my opinion, the Manxman has earned the honorary nickname of the "Savior of Malta" among the Britons, and it is also a mine-cruiser.

      EMNIP, in the Mediterranean, all available from RN for 1941-1942. high-speed minzagi were noted in the role of TR. "Ebdiel" and "Latona" ran to Tobruk. "Mankman" and "Welsman" - to Malta.
      Only "Ariadne" with "Apollo" did not have time - by the time they entered service, the crisis in the Middle-earth had already ended.
      "Latona" generally distinguished itself - before its sinking on 25.10.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX, the minzag regularly performed combat missions, but never participated in mine productions. smile
      1. +7
        August 22 2023
        I completely agree with you hi. But the title went to the Manxman.
        By the way, from a series of 6 units. 3% died. And all from the direct impact of the enemy.
        All losses occurred in the Mediterranean Sea: "Latona" 25.10.1941/617/1.2.1943 off the coast of Libya was hit by one medium-caliber bomb, the fire caused by it led to the explosion of the transported ammunition and the ship sank. "Welshman" was sunk by a German torpedo. Submarine U-10.9.1943 1941/2/XNUMX off the coast of Libya. "Abdiel" died XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX at Taranto, blown up by a mine. "Manxman" was damaged in XNUMX by a torpedo and out of action for more than XNUMX years.

        Which does not mean that the karablics are bad, but, on the contrary, that their KOH was outrageous. They drove them "both in the tail and in the mane" without regret at all. They were just in high demand. hi
    3. 0
      August 25 2023
      Well, minzags like "Abdiel", they are more likely to be minezags than cruisers. The only thing they have in common with cruisers is the full-time position of commander - captain)))
  21. 0
    August 22 2023
    And here there is nothing to say: all the projects of Russian and Soviet ships are a compromise between the wishes of the authorities and the capabilities of the ship.
    1. +8
      August 22 2023
      all projects of Russian and Soviet ships are a compromise between the wishes of the authorities and the capabilities of the ship.

      A compromise between "Wishlist" and capabilities is the project of any ship. And not just the ship.
    2. 0
      August 26 2023
      Any ship is a compromise between Wishlist and the real possibilities of designers and industry.
  22. +8
    August 22 2023
    Project No. 815 - there was no such project from the word at all. Why write what we do not know))). No. 815 is the number of the corps under which the "Red Caucasus" was undergoing restructuring in Nikolaev. Serial number in other words.
  23. +6
    August 22 2023
    What is very familiar, all this is almost verbatim, but read in more detail in the Zen channel by the author of the "History Pages"
  24. +7
    August 22 2023
    the French before World War II dabbled in exotic 138, 164 and 194 mm.

    And the pedantic Germans dabbled in caliber 172 mm, the Americans and the British - 178 mm, and the dual monarchy - 190 mm. But the Spaniards - they indulged in just a caliber of 180 mm. JOSÉ GONZÁLEZ HONTORIA, who at one time (late 120th century) was one of the best designers of artillery pieces. Designed a whole system of calibers 160, 180, 200, 240, 280, 320 and 19 mm. Therefore, there is no exotic in this caliber. Exotic in those indicators that Soviet designers tried to "hammer" into this caliber. The same Czechs from the Škoda company, who knew no less about artillery than the "gunners" from the Bolshevik plant in Leningrad, developed the Škoda 97 cm gun, which fired the same projectile at 20 kg per XNUMX km. And they had no problems with accuracy. nor with the resource of trunks.
    1. +6
      August 22 2023
      Quote from Frettaskyrandi
      and the dual monarchy - 190 mm.

      Not only a two-pronged, but also an Island Empire. 190 mm is the standard caliber on armored KRs (starting with the Devonshire) and the first KRTs. Oh yes, also the PMK on the BR "Vakanto" and "Occupanto".
      The British also had a proprietary caliber of 234 mm - GK on armored KR and PMK on the last two types of EBR pre-dreadnoughts.
      1. +6
        August 22 2023
        "Está ocupado"!
        "Okupado".
        Not "occupant" at all, as the entire Internet is full of.
        1. +5
          August 22 2023
          Quote: hohol95
          "Está ocupado"!
          "Okupado".
          Not "occupant" at all, as the entire Internet is full of.

          Thanks for correction! hi
        2. -4
          August 22 2023
          Quote: hohol95
          "Okupado".
          Not "occupant" at all, as the entire Internet is full of.

          And what does it change? Maybe the font is not the same?
    2. 0
      August 25 2023
      Well, the British also had 190-mm on the Cavendishes. Theoretically, it was believed that they could be charged manually, but this required giving a sailor who did not suffer from dystrophy)))
  25. +6
    August 22 2023
    Well, right according to the canon, Romochka is sparing. Yesterday, cheers, a "patriotic" article about the numb analogues of the Su-35 of the Russian Federation, which will be carried in batches by F-22s and F-35s. Today about how the mediocre USSR could not build ships, not like the Orthodox Russian Federation laughing

    Unfortunately, VO is turning into a propaganda mouthpiece, there are fewer and fewer adequate articles
    1. +9
      August 22 2023
      Skomorokhov with Ryabov as a "good and bad cop" - "bad" Ryabov scribbles "unintelligible" patriotic articles, and "good" Skomorokhov rivets "excusing" articles on "sharp" topics. At the same time, both authors are extremely illiterate in technical aspects.
      1. +2
        August 23 2023
        One opus about the uselessness of attack helicopters is worth something ...
  26. +3
    August 22 2023
    Yes, people have always been the main resource of both the Russian Empire and the USSR and modern Russia. The crews of the ships that lost to the enemy in terms of performance characteristics worked wonders on the Varyag and Rurik on the Shch and S class submarine. And in the Red Caucasus, the crew also performed a combat mission, using all the capabilities of their ship. All that he had and could force himself to serve.
  27. +9
    August 22 2023
    Amateur author. There were not 3 spark minis, but first 4, then 6. And in general, the air defense of the cruiser was impressive, especially after modernization, when Lend-Lease nishtyaks and our 37 mm machine guns were installed. Two for your article. And in general, I advise for the future to shove less gag into articles and more facts.
  28. +1
    August 22 2023
    What nonsense!!! Divorced n HER satels!
  29. +3
    August 22 2023
    This is not Skomorokhov wrote.
    After all, here the idea is repeated many times that the heroes served in such a shelter, but did not drown.

    The evil genius of our fool from the army and navy of the first red marshal Tukhachevsky intervened. It was he (or one of his specialists) who came up with the idea of ​​building a cruiser-sniper with artillery capable of firing at long distances.

    It is to him! Or someone.
    So the author can write "", and if in a comment, then a warning.

    Can the author, the real one, and not Skomorokhov, be called a possum?
  30. +1
    August 22 2023
    The cruiser was a good air defense ship. For 1942, he had 12 mm anti-aircraft guns.
    1. +2
      August 23 2023
      Quote: Alexey Koshkarov
      The cruiser was a good air defense ship. For 1942, he had 12 mm anti-aircraft guns.

      The strength of air defense is determined not by the number of barrels, but by the SUAO. Otherwise, sticking the decks with anti-aircraft guns from the Japanese would really help them. smile
      What do we have with the fire control of 100-mm anti-aircraft guns?
      The firing of 100-mm anti-aircraft installations of the Minizini system was carried out by two PUS systems of the 1931 model of the year (firing artillery installations on self-government.)

      The installation was guided manually (horizontal pointing speed 13 ° per second, vertical 7 ° per second). Measurement of distances to the target and aiming was carried out by a range finder of the OO-Z type manufactured by the Italian company Galileo.

      The Galileo OO-3 range finder had a stereobase of 14 m, magnification of 28 and 2 times, and a field of view, respectively, of 3°1 (Ki 30°8'. The distance measurement ranged from 140 to XNUMX kb.
      © A. V. Skvortsov. Guards cruiser Krasny Kavkaz (1926-1945).
      Self-management and manual guidance. This is how it looked in practice during the release on 23.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX:
      As soon as they went to sea, the signalmen reported: “A group of aircraft, sixty on the right, three thousand high!” A. M. Gushchin ordered to increase the course and began to maneuver courses. Enemy bombers lay down on a combat course, 100-mm anti-aircraft guns of midshipman I. M. Goylov opened fire. He had just graduated from the Black Sea VVMU and was undergoing an internship at the Krasny Kavkaz, duplicating the battery commander. Explosions lay at a height precisely and heaped, but all the time they lagged behind the enemy bombers on the course, despite the introduction of the maximum corrections provided for by the firing tables.
      © I. F. Tsvetkov. Guards cruiser "Red Caucasus".
      1. 0
        7 September 2023
        Dear Aleksey R A, already the air defense actions of the cruiser, which made it possible to repel about 200 aircraft attacks during the entire war, and destroyed three of them, show that the ship was a fairly good air defense cruiser. And midshipman Goylov, a little confused in 1941, gained precious experience in repelling subsequent attacks by enemy aircraft
  31. +5
    August 22 2023
    I am completely a..ue from the article! The disrespectful author has no conscience at all.
  32. +1
    August 23 2023
    I wonder what qualifications the author of the article has, so that it makes sense to just read this opus. In my opinion it is zero. :) Let him publish links to his diplomas and scientific papers in the field of shipbuilding and the combat use of the forces of the fleet.
    "Where you can't do anything, you shouldn't want anything!" //Cristobal Junta (Monday starts on Saturday)//
  33. 0
    August 23 2023
    I thought that Andrei (but he could only start like that) but it turned out to be Roman. And then I realized that it’s not about today, so you can scold the past ... and everything came together. We cannot scold the present. You can only have the past or believe in the future. To waver with the party line, so to speak.
  34. +1
    August 23 2023
    The Germans in their "Deutschlands" in a similar situation simply screwed a new nose. Longer and so solved the problem.

    The Germans on the "battleships" ("Lützow" and "Scheer") simply lengthened the bow by 1,8 m simply by building on the stem. Maybe I am being strict with the author, and he is talking about the failed modernization of the Sheer, when they wanted to remake the hull a little less than completely increasing the length to 207 m and the width to 22,5 m ... Although what am I talking about ... laughing

    Of the shortcomings, separate loading was noted, which significantly reduced the rate of fire. Moreover, one charge was in the sleeve, and the second - in the cap. Not the most practical layout.

    Maybe the author will tell you how else to ensure obturation with a wedge gate?
    By the way, the Germans used a similar system for about 40 years, one of the motives was to increase the rate of fire. :)
    With all the shortcomings, I by no means consider the Germans fools ... :)
  35. 0
    August 23 2023
    I would like to clarify: "Deutschland" only officially had a displacement of 10000 tons. In fact, it was about 16000. On the "Red Caucasus" there were not 6 100mm, but four twin installations made in Italy (8), in 1943 their number was increased to 6 (12 barrels).
    1. 0
      August 23 2023
      Quote: Andrey Lapshin
      I would like to clarify: "Deutschland" only officially had a displacement of 10000 tons. In fact, it was about 16000.

      As usual, standard and full displacement are confused.
      Standard displacement - 10600 tons
      Structural - 12630 t
      Full - 14290 t

      16090 - this is the complete VI of the "Count Spee", the most "tricked out" of the "battleships".
  36. 0
    August 26 2023
    "Strong with afterknowledge" is the motto of the writer of the article.
  37. 0
    October 25 2023
    Yes, the author should not have taken on something in which he is frankly weak - an analysis of historical events in the context and on specific examples; instead, he would have better concentrated on concentrated criticism of something simpler - the actions of Guderian or the same Manstein. Humor, if anyone doesn't understand
  38. -1
    November 1, 2023
    In the last phrase there is a hint of the promoted Armata. It has no analogues, because no one in their right mind would think of such a layout.

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