Reflection on the special operation: armored vehicles at "Army-2023"

BMP-1 with a lattice screen on the roof may well become the main show-stopper of the "Army-2023"

The response of the military-industrial complex

The holding of the Army-2023 forum for many may turn out to be controversial in its essence. There is an opinion that now is not the time - the country has been conducting the largest military operations since 1945, and here is “VDNKh for the military”. Contracts of the Ministry of Defense with manufacturers can be signed at not so pretentious events. Moreover, it is also costly.

This point of view really has the right to exist, and it is not so easy to argue with it. But there are a couple of counterarguments.

First, the abolition of forums like the "Army" will be an excellent argument in the arsenal of enemy propaganda. They still pour mud on any exhibit from the exhibition. Cancel the forum - in Kyiv they will definitely count this as another "win". Say, they knocked out all the equipment from the Russian Army and did not leave it for the exhibition.

The second argument for the forum is work for an external buyer. Large-scale hostilities force the continuous adaptation of military equipment, and this cannot but interest foreign partners.

In the near future, it is Russian technology that should become a trendsetter in the arms sector. Approximately as the Soviet school of tank building was guided in the world by all post-war decades. The scale of modern events, of course, is not comparable with the Great Patriotic War, but they will seriously change the trends in armaments.

At the same time, an interesting feature stands out - innovations primarily relate to Russian military equipment. In Ukraine, there is now practically no own military industry. More or less successfully, the nationalists manage to build sea and air drones-kamikaze. But even here there are big doubts about the original Ukrainian roots of products.

For the rest, the enemy army has to be content with independent equipment of the pre-war period (we are talking about the Bogdan, BTR-4E, etc.), or operate imported weapon.

Abroad, they are in no hurry to adapt the equipment to the needs of Ukraine. Some deliveries of wheeled "irons" MRAP are worth something. Such inertia is understandable - the NATO countries are not directly involved in the conflict and use the special operation as a disposal of obsolete equipment. This is primarily about land combat vehicles as the main strike force on the fronts. Here, too, is the lack of interest in ending the conflict on the part of the West.

Russia, on the contrary, is interested in an early victory in the special operation, which inevitably affects technical solutions. Therefore, the Army-2023 forum is becoming a kind of litmus test of the level of adaptation of the Russian military-industrial complex to a special military operation.

In this review, we will deal exclusively with land-based military equipment presented at the forum.

Armor and disguise

History adapting the protection of armored vehicles in a special operation is straightforward. Until a certain moment, there was no clearly defined front line, and it was possible to fly into a conditional tank or infantry fighting vehicle from any angle. This is the specificity of the so-called no-man's "gray zone" and fighting in urban areas. Hence the total booking from all sides, blinding and protection with anti-cumulative screens.

Since last year, all new and modernized Russian Tanks. There is a clear trend - at first the solution appears at the front in the form of a lattice assembled on the knee or a welded sheet of additional armor, and then the military-industrial complex takes up the problem. "Army-2023" is the most typical example of this.

Protected KAMAZ-5350 on "Army-2023". Should become the standard for special operations. Source: Michael Jerdev

Defense against kamikaze drones and "bomber" UAVs seems to be becoming a major issue on the battlefield. The tank can be equipped with the most modern armor and have a bunch of active protection systems, but a quadrocopter grenade that has flown into the open hatch is guaranteed to send a multimillion-dollar car to the next world.

So far, there is no adequate solution to this problem, but the Russian military-industrial complex is trying. In addition to the already traditional "braziers", more specific developments appear in the field of view. For example, the Triton modular suppression system, which works against FPV kamikaze in four ranges. The product is presented by the St. Petersburg "Laboratory PPSh" and can be mounted on a wide range of equipment. At Army-2023, the T-72B3 received the system.

“Cape” celebrated a real benefit performance at Army-2023. Source: Michael Jerdev

"Armata" was prudently covered with "Cape" to the very ground - the chassis is traditionally one of the key sources of heat. Source: Michael Jerdev

An important feature of the forum was a wide demonstration of the means of reducing visibility "Cape" from the Research Institute of Steel. The enemy has a lot of thermal imagers, as well as means aviation and space exploration. It turned out that without the "Cape" on the NWO in any way. Yes, this somewhat reduces the ease of use of equipment, but also increases survival.

Not only the T-2023M, but also the T-90B72, BMP-3M, BMP-2 and even Armata received protective uniforms for armored vehicles at Army-3. By the way, "Armata" did not acquire the lattice protection of the upper hemisphere, widely used in the special operation.

New version of Tiger. Soon on special operation. Source: Michael Jerdev

The widespread use of small arms and artillery forces us to look for non-trivial solutions. One of these was the “Tiger” with an “increased level of protection”, very reminiscent of creations from “Mad Max” or an armored car of a hundred years ago. But, despite all the malice of the Ukrainian public, the improvements of the "Tiger" are relevant for the special operation. The wheels are covered with armored caps, the engine compartment is armored with additional sheets of armored steel, as well as bulletproof glass for the driver and commander.

The cross-country ability of the vehicle after such a modification is expected to decrease, but the military intends to use the vehicle to escort convoys of equipment on paved roads. As stated, the car has already been adopted. The Arbalet-DM remote module is responsible for fire cover.

Another forced decision was a lattice canopy welded onto the roof of the BMP-1. The design turned out to be impressive and, as planned, should protect against dropping grenades from UAVs. The main thing in this case is to observe discipline - the personnel are inside the armored vehicle and in no case on the armor.

BMP-1 with top protection in medical version. Source: Michael Jerdev

BTR-82A improved. Source: Michael Jerdev

The appearance of fundamentally new armored vehicles at the front is not to be expected. "Armata", "Kurgans" and "Boomerangs", if they appear on a special operation, then in small quantities they will not be able to have a significant impact. This is a fair decision. If, instead of the conditional "Armata", Uralvagonzavod assembles two or three T-90M "Proryv", then the question of expediency can not even be raised.

Nevertheless, interesting samples of new equipment, which, quite possibly, will be widely used in a special operation, were present at the Army-2023 forum.

One of these BTR-82A is improved. Paradoxically, the improvements here are fundamental. Unlike the original BTR-82A, the new vehicle does not know how to swim, it is much better protected (they say from 12,7 mm), the engine-transmission compartment is shifted to the bow, and the landing force now exits through the aft ramp. The photo from the exhibition shows armchairs with anti-mine protection and anti-fragmentation lining.

The car was developed in an extremely short time - the first patent images appeared in March 2023, about which Military Review has already Reported. Even if this, as evil tongues assure, is a simplified version of the Boomerang, then the troops are waiting for it.

Firepower

The case at the forum "Army-2023" reached the factory "gantrucks". We are talking about the car AMN-590911 "Spartak" with an anti-aircraft gun S-60 caliber 57 mm. If the troops have been making similar equipment from the very beginning of the special operation, then why not make the car at the factory level?

The self-propelled gun is in great demand in the army and is designed "to destroy air targets at low and medium altitudes, as well as unarmored and lightly armored ground targets of the enemy and his manpower at a distance of up to 7 km." The Ural platform with a double cab is armored from 7,62 mm with a heat-strengthened core, mine protection is designed to undermine 6 kg of TNT under the bottom and wheel.

AMN-590911 "Spartak" with anti-aircraft gun S-60 caliber 57 mm. Source: Michael Jerdev

Combat crew 5 people, transportable ammunition - 144 shells.

Two questions.

The first one is that handicraft "gantrucks" in the army have been known since the time of the Afghan war - why did the hands of the military-industrial complex reach only by the middle of 2023?

The second question - how is the well-armored cabin of the Ural combined with the S-60 installation in the back, which is open to all winds? Will they not fire at the car while working on the enemy?

A little about the S-60 automatic gun.

At the moment, New Defense Technologies LLC offers three options for upgrading weapons with subsequent installation on the Spartak chassis. The gun even received a unique name - SAZP-57.

In the simplest version, the cannon is removed from the wagon, all electrical equipment is replaced, and ammunition is placed next to the cannon. The calculation has been reduced from 8 to 4 people.

The second option involves the restoration of the resource of the gun, further reduction of the calculation to the commander, gunner and loader, as well as the installation of electric guidance drives, a range finder, night vision devices and the reduction of guidance mechanisms to one workplace.

In the course of in-depth modernization, the S-60 acquires in addition to the above - an automatic target tracking machine, a thermal imager, a prototype fire control system and an automatic ammunition supply system. Up to the possibility of firing projectiles with a programmable detonation. In this case, the cost of refining the ancient S-60 is many times higher than the cost of the gun. But the idea is interesting and has all the rights to implement.

"Dronoboyka" or our answer to Gepard. Source: Michael Jerdev

They told in the "Military Review" about one more novelty - anti-aircraft installation from JSC "NTC Elins". Modernized 23-mm machine guns from Shilka were installed on the car, positioned as a “drono-killer”. The surveillance and panoramic system and the onboard radar are responsible for detecting and tracking targets. The installation is based on the BTR-82 chassis. Cheap and cheerful - perhaps the main criteria for mass use in the NWO.

Robot-"drono-killer" 5ETs16U. Source: Michael Jerdev

Fighting with UAVs at Army-2023 and Robots. Approximately so it is possible to title the material about the combat module 5ETs16U from JSC Elektromashina. On a three-axle platform, a module with a jamming system, a small-sized radar, a quad 7,62-mm machine gun and four launchers with kamikaze UAVs can be located. The idea is that the operator receives data from the radar on the azimuth and range of an air target, launches an interceptor drone with subsequent detonation. Drones that break through are destroyed by machine guns.

But this is still in theory - the exhibition demonstrates an apparatus with a single machine gun and an optical guidance system.

SPN "Titan". Source: Michael Jerdev

The next exhibit worthy of attention was the special car ZA SPN "Titan" from "Remdiesel". The vehicle is designed for airborne troops and is equipped with a Spitsa combat module with a 30 mm cannon and a 7,62 mm machine gun. The module is specially lightened and devoid of a regular grenade launcher, which, for example, is present at the Spoke on the Shot armored vehicle. But for the Titan, a pair of Konkurs-M ATGM launchers were installed instead.

Autonomous "Chisel". Source: Michael Jerdev

"Remdiesel" presented "Chisel". This is a universal unmanned vehicle with a gross weight of more than 13 tons, designed "to provide and support as part of assault groups, fire support and escort groups, ammunition supply groups, transportation of cargo and the wounded, charging radio stations and quadrocopters." Master of all trades - nothing else.

It remains only to wait in the special operation. Like all other technology.

Comments

[That_Same]

Oh, look at next year and
heavy infantry fighting vehicles / armored personnel carriers based on tanks will appear, albeit alterations from T64-62-55 (at least at the exhibition))) If only we, and the country, and the guys on the front line would survive

[Machito]

Was it necessary to hold the Army-2023 forum?
Definitely needed!!!
This year's forum attracted a record number of participants, over 80 countries, mostly from the Global South. As the CBO is held, the interest of the forum participants only increases. These countries do not support Ukraine. They are "type neutral": they keep their fists in their pockets (so that it is not visible) for the victory of Russia over the USA and NATO. If Russia defeats the United States (which seems to be happening now), then the position of these countries will become more and more anti-American.
The interest of the delegations of the forum participants in Russian weapons is understandable and understandable: this is the Weapon of Victory. It is with this weapon that Russia is now defeating more than 50 countries of the anti-Russian coalition. I am sure that many countries of the Global South will want to acquire our weapons in order to also have protection from the US and NATO. The Russian military-industrial complex should jump like a rabbit for the joy of concluding numerous contracts (you can work 72 hours a day). We don't know how to make cars. But we know how to make tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and the entire range of weapons.
If the GDP correctly uses the military-political situation in the world, then due to the development of the military-industrial complex, Russia can make a technological leap in the economy and become one of the Centers of the Multipolar World.

[bayard]

Quote: Bearded

But we know how to make tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and the entire range of weapons.

Pleased with the new look of the BTR-82A. If also its production will be at the level of the previous one (hundreds of units per year), then our infantry will finally have a decent wheeled armored personnel carrier.

Quote: That_Same

Oh, look at next year and
heavy infantry fighting vehicles / armored personnel carriers based on tanks will appear, albeit alterations from T64-62-55 (even at the exhibition

I would very much like that. Finally, the military-industrial complex began to promptly issue new necessary models of armored vehicles. It’s a pity our (Russian) military-industrial complex didn’t have the proper backlog and experience of such a transformation of old tanks into TBTRs, but you can also look closely at the developments of Kharkov engineers. For such equipment (TBTR based on old tanks) is not just needed - it is NEEDED.

Quote: Bearded

This year's forum attracted a record number of participants, over 80 countries, mostly from the Global South.

This is a very good trend. It is a pity that a lot of time has been lost, and right now Russia will not be able to sharply strengthen the defense capability of these countries - everything that the defense industry produces, we need ourselves. But the stake in the development of the defense industry must be made precisely on the expansion of arms markets at the expense of these same countries, expanding production for future orders. Markets should not be "captured", they should be FORMATED. Allies must be selected, rallied and educated, and military personnel must be trained. As in the old days and with an eye to the future. And yes, the defense industry can become the very locomotive of the economy that will pull the domestic economy out of the swamp of stagnation. And it is in high-tech areas.

Quote: Bearded

and become one of the Centers of the Multipolar World.

To do this, you must have your own POSITIVE and attractive development program.
The program "Even more money for Deripaska" will not work and is unlikely to inspire and motivate anyone ... especially from those countries that look at the Russian Federation as a renamed, but still the USSR. The world needs exactly the USSR - THE MALE BEGINNING, the Doctrine of Justice and Development, Technological Sovereignty and a bet on Self-Sufficiency.
This is exactly what is expected from Russia, and not "Russian capitalism".
And oddly enough, it is precisely on this that you can EARN VERY WELL, create and strengthen alliances, build long-term economic, political and military programs.
The world is waiting for a POSITIVE agenda from Russia.
And it will be a pity if we do not justify these hopes of the Peoples of the World.

[Materialist]

If they could have thought of it, they would have done it a long time ago, the fact is that the prospects for adoption, apparently, are near-zero, or absent, if only because the order for such vehicles will be less than for disposable armored combat vehicles based on armored personnel carriers and BMP
Although the BMO-T was present at the exhibition, not to mention the fact that this machine is archaic and requires modernization?
Such machines can be produced by single plants of the KMZ or UVZ level, and their production facilities, apparently, are exclusively occupied by tanks

[spektr9]

It remains only to wait in the special operation. Like all other technology.

And there is already either a donkey or a padishah ...

[Ross xnumx]

They told in the "Military Review" about another novelty - an anti-aircraft gun from the company JSC "NTC Elins". Modernized 23-mm machine guns from Shilka were installed on the car, positioned as a “drono-killer”.

It is a pity that they did not show the process of loading these modernized 23-mm machine guns ...
* * *
As expected, all these factory body kits with bars and nets - until the first march over rough terrain ...

[bionik]

Quote: ROSS 42

They told in the "Military Review" about another novelty - an anti-aircraft gun from the company JSC "NTC Elins". Modernized 23-mm machine guns from Shilka were installed on the car, positioned as a “drono-killer”.

It is a pity that they did not show the process of loading these modernized 23-mm machine guns ...
* * *
As expected, all these factory body kits with bars and nets - until the first march over rough terrain ...

As usual, logs, sandbags and other improvised materials are attached. Not from a good life, of course.

[Old tanker]

It is a pity that they did not show the process of loading these modernized 23-mm machine guns ...
* * *
As expected, all these factory body kits with bars and nets - until the first march over rough terrain ...

So this is the showcase. As the artist conceived, so he stuck. And how to exploit it, and even more so to fight on it, we will think later. Unfortunately, for each exhibition of various kinds, our developers sculpt whatever comes into their heads. And many bloggers and correspondents inflate it as a super prodigy. Although the hacks themselves do not have the competence. And they don’t even distinguish the rear double-leaf swing door from the ramp.

[Amateur]

Is this another anti-drone "chicken coop" or did you get a "successful" photo?

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Amateur

Is this another anti-drone "chicken coop" or did you get a "successful" photo?

Something like shawarma!

[Scipio]

The main thing is to be efficient. And how it looks all the same, not to show off at parades

[Bacha]

BTR 82A improved turned out well. Practical. And there is more armor and it’s normal to take out the wounded and cram cargo. Good car. And the firepower was preserved.

[Old tanker]

BTR 82A improved turned out well. Practical. And there is more armor and it’s normal to take out the wounded and cram cargo. Good car. And the firepower was preserved.

I liked it too. And most importantly, there is a hinged door behind, and not a ramp, like the "Kurganets". As the experience of wrecked Western armored vehicles has shown, if the car is damaged, the electrics and hydraulics in most cases are cut down and the ramp cannot be thrown back. And not only everyone manages to evacuate through a narrow uncomfortable door.

[Materialist]

Even now, they still didn’t think of making the rear compartment modular-cargo-passenger, with a central seating arrangement, not to mention the fact that “more armor” is only nominally and this wagon will be destroyed by artillery and anti-tank systems with equal success, while being more expensive

[good]

the central location of the seats does not save, while it eats up the place in the center completely
the main thing here is the layout, alas, the old ones cannot be finalized like that, you can only make a new one and it’s not so expensive and it’s not difficult to assemble, you just need a new tooling, it’s quite possible to start production in parallel, but it’s not a fact that they will be launched into a series
but the beater is not fake at all

[Materialist]

What problem of combat units should he solve? Replace the BMP-1/2/3, being wheeled and not having any fundamentally higher security?
The location of the seats in the center makes it possible to place them on one carrier bar attached to the roof of the hull, making them quick-release, freeing up space on the sides and improving the centering of the loaded machine
One of the main problems of the Ground Forces of the RF Armed Forces is the lack of a multifunctional heavily armored chassis based on a tank, and not the lack of light transport workers, but apparently, the military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation is not able to solve this problem properly

[rocket757]

Reflection on the special operation: armored vehicles at "Army-2023"

. It is clear that a conflict of such intensity and the variety of means of destruction that are used will make everyone, primarily the designers of military equipment, think about how and what needs to be done, how and what to change, refine, modernize !!!
You can, of course, ask why they didn’t prepare in advance, but ... and who and where, in general, was / is ready for this ???

[Romario_Argo]

for conflicts of intensity like SVO, heavy infantry fighting vehicles are needed according to the layout as BMP-2 based on T-90M tanks, with placement in 2 rows of DZ Relic in a circular, 3rd row on the fenders of the DZ Cactus,
+ built-in remote sensing Relic on the entire area of ​​the roof of the hull + mounted remote sensing Relic on the roof of the hull
+ KAZ Arena-M with protection of the upper hemisphere from drones
from weapons installation of a frame on top of the DZ Relic with DPU 12,7 mm
almost like a roman turtle

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: Romario_Argo

for conflicts of intensity like SVO, heavy infantry fighting vehicles are needed according to the layout as BMP-2 based on T-90M tanks, with placement in 2 rows of DZ Relic in a circular, 3rd row on the fenders of the DZ Cactus,
+ built-in remote sensing Relic on the entire area of ​​the roof of the hull + mounted remote sensing Relic on the roof of the hull
+ KAZ Arena-M with protection of the upper hemisphere from drones
from weapons installation of a frame on top of the DZ Relic with DPU 12,7 mm
almost like a roman tortoise

well, we also need an economy that will pull the supply of thousands of such "super-BMPs" to the troops .. apart from your proposals .. at least 500 Armats are needed ... new operational communication systems .. at least 3 aircraft carriers, and indeed the fleet - every 2 -3 minimum increase, by the way, like the Air Force .. Coalitions-SV are several hundred .. UAVs are an order of magnitude larger .. well, and much, much more .. and most importantly, a machine that prints money without stopping, from which nothing happens to the economy, so that you don’t have to think about where to get money for all these ideas .. well, it won’t hurt the body that controls “people with a saw” and immediately stops them, preferably with a shot .. so it’s not difficult to implement your proposal ...

[Materialist]

The very concept of an infantry fighting vehicle has already outlived its usefulness as a vehicle universalized in terms of transport and combat functions, now a universal front-line combat chassis is required for both tanks and BMPTs and TBTRs, with protection measures approximately the same as you described

[good]

there is one caveat, after the loss of mobility, and you can deprive of mobility of any bridge on a goose or wheels, this whole heap of iron is no longer worth anything

[Materialist]

There are trawls and BIS for this, I already wrote that it is possible to ensure the proper level of security only with a set of means

[Vladimirsky]

You only don’t tell the fighters who are in the trenches about this window dressing. I showed an article about this event-parade to my nephew, who cannot restore his leg after being injured for a year. He had no censorship words.

[cold wind]

Quote: Vladimirsky

He had no censorship words.

"PR during the plague".

[Vladimir80]

First, the abolition of forums like the "Army" will be an excellent argument in the arsenal of enemy propaganda. They still pour mud on any exhibit from the exhibition. Cancel the forum - in Kyiv they will definitely count this as another "win". Say, they knocked out all the equipment from the Russian Army and did not leave it for the exhibition.

the best advertising (smart propaganda) is the results from the battlefield, and the enemies only laugh from window dressing and chatter, and their own people "boil"!

[Gardamir]

Once upon a time I thought that by the very fact that I survived in the 90s I fit into the market. But no, I read the article and did not understand anything. The forum is for trading. And that there is already enough technology in the NWO? Dp and the forum turns out to be held so that the Ukrainians do not throw poop.
But tell me, according to the results of which forums, t 34 and IL2 were recognized as the best equipment of the Second World War?

[Von_Schmidt]

T-34-85 then, and t-34 is far from the best

[Old tanker]

For 1941, an unsurpassed machine in terms of a combination of combat qualities.

[Romario_Argo]

Army-2023 is more of an exhibition of achievements and innovations of our military-industrial complex
technology is good
the most important thing is to increase the area of ​​​​protection of soldiers from 0,7 sq.m. up to 2 sq.m.
there is everything for this:
- protection weight compensation: passive or active exoskeleton
- titanium plates with ceramics welded over the entire area of ​​the plates (NII Steel)
- UHMWPE - anti-fragmentation and anti-bullet protection
- ceramic bags protection class up to Br.6
- aramid bags - anti-fragmentation protection
- the assault helmet BShK-5 Vulkan-5 has already been developed, protection class Br.5

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Gardamir

But tell me, according to the results of which forums, t 34 and IL2 were recognized as the best equipment of the Second World War?

According to the results of the joint activities of the department of Comrade Epishev and the beaten German generals, who blamed all their mistakes on the Russian wunderwaffe.
This was especially epic for the fast Heinz, when an official document signed by him, written in the fall of 1941, completely refuted what he issued in his memoirs about the T-34 at the same time.

T-34 and IL-2 were the best tank and the best aircraft for the USSR. Just like for the Yankees, the Sherman was the best tank.

[Mikhail Maslov]

They upset us. Yes, they upset us. Is our military-industrial complex only capable of this? Where is the KAZ with protection and from the upper sphere? Where is the Pine, where is the Hermes? Why is the armored personnel carrier presented as an assault without additional protection? they must justify themselves. Air defense armored personnel carriers, well, add at least two Igla or Verba missiles

[Old tanker]

Well, "Pine" and "Hermes" were hits for past exhibitions. Boasted once and good. New exhibitions require new toys. And for the front, without any PR and window dressing, they modernize machines in production. Well, folk craftsmen collect on their knees in garages. And the exhibition is to lure a potential buyer. By type: look what a contraption I blinded! Give me some money and I'll probably stamp you with as many as you want. But this is not a fact.

[Rome]

As for me, close air defense should be covered by small-caliber cannons of infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, which have remote detonation and corresponding target search systems, as well as machine guns with automatic guidance. Drones of all sorts now are a dime a dozen, specialized machines are simply not possible to have so many in the troops, which means that the troops themselves must fight back from such a misfortune!
Based on what was mentioned in the article, it is really interesting only the Cape and the modernized BTR82 and robots, of which only the Cape is really used, and the axial one is not clear when it will be and whether it will be at all.
And with the 57mm C60, I can’t understand, is it really a cool thing that they forgot about for some reason, or is it a necessary measure, since there is not enough normal equipment?
Based on the report, it somehow gives off today's decisions a little like handicraft.
Goradushki from drones instead of electronic warfare and KAZ .... another ZSU instead of an upgrade, a surveillance complex for infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, in order to identify new targets, for example, offline, by assessing the situation with a neural network, for example, which monitors incoming information from outside and video from pr is intact from the side (the eye will not notice a speck, but the neural network is a dark pixel completely).

[Vadim S]

That's certainly the war engine of engineering! The armored personnel carrier was blinded in half a year and without any annual coordination of statements and tests, it would always be so. Interesting details what kind of "chisel" is very interesting! And the dumbbell with the S-60 is a cool thing, put the armor on the sides and that's what you need. I am delighted!

[George Sviridov]

By the way, yes, folding side steel screens (fold down to the ground for boarding / disembarking the crew, and loading BC) and at least a mesh visor on top. The only thing you need is an electric winch to lift the sides, because you can lift the horseradish steel side manually, even through the block ... By the way, as an option, you can use a thin steel sheet 2-3 mm, and then a sheet of heavy polyethylene "glued" to it, cm 5-6 thick. In order not to make steel plates a centime and a half thick, which will not add weight, or even a package and an aramid composite in resin, also a centime 5 centime thick, although it will most likely be heavy if they are still made sectional, say about a meter wide, with a tenon-groove fastening between them, so that they can be changed in the field by the crew itself, then generally fire ...
It won’t save you from the bird, but calmly from small arms and fragments ...

[Nikolaevich I]

A little about the S-60 automatic gun.

At the moment, New Defense Technologies LLC offers three options for upgrading weapons with subsequent installation on the Spartak chassis. The gun even received a unique name - SAZP-57.
The S-60 guns have already gained some popularity in the NWO! But the following is surprising ... there is practically no information about the use of the ZSU-57-2 in hostilities ...! Is it possible that they all let them go on the "needles"? What kind of "self-made" abracadabra did not light up in the NWO!? And the ZSU-57-2 would be more appropriate, like "terminators", like assault guns!

[Old tanker]

Very few ZSU 57-2s were produced and they have long been dissolved in blast furnaces. In general, this is the last century with cassette loading. But where are the modern installations with an uninhabited combat module with a 57-mm 2A91 cannon with screw ammunition developed by the Burevestnik Central Research Institute - this is interesting!

[AC130 Gunship]

Well, yes. Otherwise, for decades we have watched zombie biathlons, where the Kyrgyz and Algerians have always lost

[Galleon]

Fuck the counterarguments in defense of another muppet show:
1. And what will they say about this in Ukraine ...
2. We need to sell more to foreign buyers.
What, without a head at all or completely lost shame? Not all for the front, but all for sale? And if France buys a batch of infantry fighting vehicles to send to the stubborn, will they sell it? Well, what a victory for Russia will be - a NATO country bought weapons!
Clown madness this underarmy 2023.

[Old tanker]

Have you forgotten that you live in a capitalist country?

[Galleon]

Quote: Old Tanker

Have you forgotten that you live in a capitalist country?

How can you forget about it? The good news is that it's not forever. Let the country remain, we will leave.

[AdAstra]

I read it ... Hand-face ...
Author of "what the hell are you talking about?" (C)

[Igor1915]

If you need just such a technique in your own and it’s not there, drive the analysts of the General Staff there’s nothing to eat free bread

[tchoni]

It would be better if they didn’t conduct it like that ... The whole crested and English-no from the inflatable temple from the Russian Orthodox Church, presented at this exhibition, rolls and dies .... What’s the topic, de, Russia only knows how to fight at exhibitions. .. I will modestly keep silent about the trend of "lattice-capes" ... As well as about "robotic complexes" made according to the principle "Pushed down the hill - it went by itself" .... And in conclusion, I will stay as a "captain-obvious": the best exhibition is battlefield! The best advertisement is success in battle! The only thing that is really useful and seems to be really feasible is a mixture of a boomerang with an eighty-two ....

[Zaurbek]

The second question - how is the well-armored cabin of the Ural combined with the S-60 installation in the back, which is open to all winds? Will they not fire at the car while working on the enemy?

A little about the S-60 automatic gun.

At the moment, New Defense Technologies LLC offers three options for upgrading weapons with subsequent installation on the Spartak chassis. The gun even received a unique name - SAZP-57.


You can also put the module itself with 57mm on the MCI or such a truck. And there is a 37mm anti-aircraft gun similar in design (a descendant of Bofors).

[Szerg]

I liked the BTR 82, the main thing is that mass modernization would begin, and not just be limited to an exhibition.

[Materialist]

No sequence, each office makes its own one-time rubbish, relying entirely on performance in artisanal conditions
No conclusions about the need for TBTRs with protection similar to tanks have been made, no capital bulwarks for tanks have been made, which only have protection against RPGs on the sides
There is no cooperation and cooperation between manufacturers of armored chassis and gunsmiths, no one could afford to go beyond a concept like handicraft
We were going to protect the BMP-3 from RPGs, which would be great if they fired at it from RPGs more often than from equally common anti-tank systems
They either did not make fundamental conclusions about the lack of heavy armored vehicles of the RF Armed Forces, or did not even try due to the impossibility of putting them into production and adopting them into service

[George Sviridov]

They will never mass-produce infantry fighting vehicles / armored personnel carriers based on tanks en masse for a variety of reasons:
Expensive and most importantly nowhere to produce 1,5 tank factories are loaded with the production of tanks and artillery to the eyeballs.
He eats fucking solariums - there won’t be enough fuel trucks.
We need to load other factories.
Doesn't give ultimatum protection anyway: artillery, mines, ptura, aviation will destroy tanks as they will destroy this equipment.
Therefore, the basis will always be medium equipment (at the BMP-3 protection level) - with protection against large fragments, small-caliber automatic cannons and obsolete (light) grenade launchers, such as spg-9, rpg-18 fly. And lightly armored vehicles, which should not be at the forefront, with protection from light fragments and small arms.
Heavy infantry fighting vehicles have a place to be for urban battles, for operations against the Papuans, who do not have serious anti-tank weapons, but their number will never be significant, nor that they will not reach a larger satya armored personnel carrier, but even with tanks they will never be equal in number.
BMP-3, boomerang, kurganets - this will be the basis of medium armor for infantry ... The rest will be easier, there will be no more than a few hundred heavy infantry fighting vehicles like t-15 for all armed forces, most likely 31 vehicles (battalion), in tank brigades and regiments of tank divisions, and then most likely not in all, but only in those where T-14 tanks will stand, in general, I think 300-600 units maximum, plus some small reserve, to make up for losses, even up to a hundred vehicles .. That is, with the most optimistic forecasts, less than 1000 cars, and most likely no more than 500.
And the need for armored personnel carriers is tens of thousands of vehicles ... At least replace the BMP-1 with the BMP-3, and upgrade the BMP-2, and this is clearly not the next few years ...

[Materialist]

Of course, it is expensive, capitalist production is focused on profit and not on the functionality of the goods produced, therefore it is more profitable to make machines that will require more frequent replenishment due to losses.
The basis of the profits of the Russian Federation is oil, forcing the state to buy more of its own produced oil is the best that can be imagined
Ultimate protection for each class of military equipment can be provided by comprehensive means of protection and not by passive and semi-active armor and the interaction of all types of troops
The role of passive and semi-active armor of a combat unit is to protect active means of protection, weapons and other systems that ensure the combat functionality of equipment from being hit by most of the weapons of the same base as the vehicle itself (tanks and vehicles based on them should not be hit by other tanks and all ground striking means)
The BMP-3 has no protection, neither from mines, at the moment even from RPGs, nor from ATGMs that any modern infantry has, nor, moreover, from aviation, the concept of this BMP is more akin to a gun truck than a tank
T-15 is an exhibition model, an attempt to bring the car, an outdated concept, to the absolute security and equipment
The industry of the Russian Federation is a miserable semblance of the industry of the RSFSR, but even the latter, due to a flaw in the organization of production, such machines could not provide the supply of machines with the required level of protection

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Materialist

Of course, it is expensive, capitalist production is focused on profit and not on the functionality of the goods produced, therefore it is more profitable to make machines that will require more frequent replenishment due to losses.

That is, the USSR, massively sculpting "second line tanks" and cardboard infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, it turns out, was also profit-oriented capitalist production?

[Materialist]

No, the conflict, the only possible one with the participation of the USSR and the capitalist bloc, could only be nuclear, and the technology was adapted to such specific conditions, it was assumed, now there are no production capacities capable of eliminating the industrial gap from the Soviet Union, but the technology is inherited got
Although the factories of the USSR were profit-oriented, they did not form separate capitals.

[George Sviridov]

Nothing has protection from modern ptur, and the t-14, t-15 will not have it, the kaz can help, but it can be put on any infantry fighting vehicle ...
With additional screens and DZ, the BMP-3 will completely hold light grenade launchers and even Luch from RPG-7, as well as from 23-30 mm shells, ideally modify the protection to 35-40 mm guns and this is essentially the maximum reasonable level of armor, everything else protection is already only electronic warfare and KAZ.

[Materialist]

It doesn’t exist because it doesn’t seem necessary to anyone to spend an excessive amount of money on a smaller number of well-protected vehicles than a larger number of unprotected ones, but this does not make it impossible for the armored vehicle weight category to be protected from them
The foreheads of tanks and BMPTs accurately protect against ATGMs, especially the latter
Empty holds, only it makes no sense, the number of ATGMs in the infantry is no less, if not more, than grenade launchers, not to mention the fact that the latter have tandem grenades

[air wolf]

It is necessary to make hundreds of infantry fighting vehicles and infantry fighting vehicles based on the T-55, 62 hulls

[Tim666]

Quote: Gardamir

Once upon a time I thought that by the very fact that I survived in the 90s I fit into the market. But no, I read the article and did not understand anything. The forum is for trading. And that there is already enough technology in the NWO? Dp and the forum turns out to be held so that the Ukrainians do not throw poop.
But tell me, according to the results of which forums, t 34 and IL2 were recognized as the best equipment of the Second World War?

Where, when and who recognized? Read about the loss of IL-2 and understanding will come ...

[Mister who]

Conveyors drive up close to the front, unload humanoid skeleton robots or wheeled very light equipment, it should be simple and cheap with easy replacement of damaged parts right in the field like a designer, operators sit at a distance in armored vehicles, constantly on the move with a cover of a shell or something. The bottom line is that operators are at a distance, and devices should be brought up like a carousel. The main thing is to be cheap and plentiful.

[Sergei N 58912062]

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[victor50]

[i] They say they knocked out all the equipment from the Russian Army and did not leave it for the exhibition. [i]
And this will be a serious blow to the defense capability of Russia? in 42-44 parades on the occasion of the anniversary of the October Revolution were not held. Did it somehow affect the failures and successes? It was logical - not the time for parades.

[AlOrg]

And six months ago, everyone was laughing in unison over dumbbells from Ukraine and Syria. In our country, it’s somehow tight with design, and indeed with any thought

[AlOrg]

And what of this has already been purchased by the MO? sure nothing

[Vlad2012]

If you need self-propelled artillery, install a 120 mm mortar on an armored truck. Even if you need to make a new carriage with hydraulics. The Chinese have experience installing a 122-mm howitzer on a Humvee clone of their own design. All these 57-mm attempts in divisional artillery are a dead end.

[Yaroslav Tekkel]

The second argument for the forum is work for an external buyer. Large-scale hostilities force the continuous adaptation of military equipment, and this cannot but interest foreign partners.

1. What kind of buyers? Even if right tomorrow morning Zelensky announces his surrender, all factories will need to work at full capacity for several more years solely to make up for the losses incurred and to replace absolutely relics like the BMP-1. Moreover, the "countries of the global South" are paying with currencies that are not much more valuable than cowrie shells.
2. And what will buyers see at this exhibition? A variety of garage crafts in the style of Kurds and Basmachi, which any Honduras can repeat for himself, and cheaper?

Another forced decision was a lattice canopy welded onto the roof of the BMP-1.

No, a forced decision is the very use of the BMP-1 in 2023.

and the landing now leaves through the stern ramp

Did you call the two steps a ramp? Well, technically you have the right...

The machine is designed for landing troops

Shoot. Until the end of the war (at least) even the development, not to mention the production, of specialized airborne equipment is sabotage. Just a way to make unnecessary garbage with an increased price tag and degraded performance, taking away scarce production capacity from useful products.

The only bright spot is a kind of finally normal armored personnel carrier.

[Hanurik]

Quote: Bearded

The Russian military-industrial complex should jump like a bunny for the joy of concluding numerous contracts (you can work 72 hours a day).

Not to improve performance, no. Do not introduce additional shifts with a REDUCTION of working hours, no. 72 hours a day to go after your own capitalist, whose only difference from the Western one is that he YET does not call for killing Russians. Bravo.

[decimalegio]

Interesting article. I thank the author for the photos and information. However, a tiger with this extra armor is a real deformity. An improved version of the BTR82A is interesting, does this version have its own name ??

[Sergei N 58912062]

3A SPN "Titan" reminds me very much of the K-4386 3A-SpN shown earlier. "Titan" is not by any chance an upgraded version of this machine?

[rusboris]

Too shy to ask. Did the CSTO somehow show itself at the exhibition? It is very interesting to see the exhibits from Belarus. Maybe North Korea presented something. The exhibition feels strange. Like slow motion. It seems that some organizers of the Russian military-industrial complex decided to run the distance to supply the warring army in bags. Where are the organizers at the level of Marshal D.F. Ustinov? I would like to whisper the name L.P. Beria. There may be big problems with personnel in the Russian military-industrial complex. Two years of war is enough time to get rid of the personnel slag. Vladimir Vladimirovich, with all due respect, where are the resignations? Ever since the times of Niccolò Machiavelli, people have welcomed the “severed heads” of particularly unattractive individuals.

[Pavel57]

The Dronoboyka charger with 23mm assault rifles based on the BTR-82 is positioned as a budget solution. But the cost can be reduced if you use any platform after restoring the BTR-60/70/80.

[Russian Patriot]

First of all, what is needed is not protection from Drones, mines, landmines, and so on... we need PROTECTION FROM CONTRACTS