Last flight of the dying swan

217
Last flight of the dying swan

Very quietly and imperceptibly (however, as always) this sad day passed - Naval Day aviation Russia. Something there was said by someone from the highest echelons of power, noted and promised. And again silence reigned over the waves, which had previously been torn to shreds by the engines of reconnaissance and anti-submarine aircraft.

And there are strange sensations: on the one hand, it seems like everyone understands the importance, on the other hand, we have few types in the Armed Forces that drag out such a frankly miserable existence.



That is why, after waiting a bit, because just recently we were already talking about our hydroaviation (this is an even sadder topic), I decided to raise the topic of Russian naval aviation. Moreover (we will return to this in the near future) that the day of July 17 itself has nothing to do with those events, they happened earlier.

But in any case, it's still unimportant. We celebrated the centenary of the birth of Russian naval aviation, and in three years we will already be celebrating 110 years. But whether on its centenary or on its hundredth anniversary, our naval aviation is in a state that is somehow even merciless to call a crisis. This is not a crisis, this is practically death.

It's a shame, because during the Great Patriotic War, naval aviation could, perhaps, even more than surface fleets, whatever you take, except for the North, where everyone plowed to death. And although our pilots did not sink Tirpitz and Yamato, nevertheless, there were a fairly large number of glorious deeds on the account of naval pilots.

After all, naval aviation is not only bombers and torpedo bombers, this should not be forgotten. We will analyze this now, but for now I would like to note that during the years of the Cold War, our naval missile-carrying aviation, which has already been killed by today, was not just an excellent shock fist, but a mobile reserve that could be very quickly transferred from one seas to another, significantly enhancing the capabilities of the ship groupings available there.


After the collapse of the Soviet Union, naval aviation for thirty years of Russian reality lived from crisis to crisis until it turned into an absolutely incompetent set of separate units and formations armed with completely obsolete aircraft. What we have in terms of at least some concept of application is a question, but I don’t want to know the answer to it, which is why: there is nothing but disappointment there.

Let's just try to figure out what our naval aviation is like today.

In theory, naval aviation (MA) is divided into types:
- ship-based fighter;
- shore-based fighter;
- assault;
- missile-carrying;
- anti-submarine;
- reconnaissance;
- electronic warfare;
- fuel station;
- management and communications;
- transport;
- search and rescue;
- sanitary.

Let's go now for each component.

Ship-based fighter aircraft.


The 279th Naval Fighter Aviation Regiment on the Su-33 and the 100th Separate KIAP on the MiG-29KR. With these parts, everything is clear: as long as there is no carrier, we will not talk about any prospects for naval fighter aircraft because of complete hopelessness.

Coast-based fighter


A number of Su-27s in the mixed units of the DKBF.

Assault aviation


In the assault regiments, which only rearmed from the Su-2000 to the Su-17 only in 24, today it is relatively good: the Su-30SM are coming into service, but in more than modest quantities. The most massive attack aircraft is still the Su-24M, which cannot carry anti-ship missiles.

The second positive moment is the appearance of the Ka-52 Katran.


This is a very good car, but here's the problem - it's just a very good attack helicopter, which has only a folding propeller from the sea. The rest of the equipment corresponds to the land version. True, the Katran can carry X-35 anti-ship missiles, which makes it a dangerous adversary for ships with a displacement of up to 5 tons, but range also plays a role here.

Missile-carrying aviation



Completely ceased to exist, the remaining aircraft were transferred to the Long-Range Aviation.

Anti-submarine aircraft



It is practically non-existent, too, if we are talking about aircraft. Two dozen remaining Il-38s, the youngest of which is over 50 years old and 8 modernized Il-38Ns based on the model for India, plus two dozen (12 Tu-142MK / MZ and 10 Tu-142MR) Tupolev aircraft, a little younger (the latter were released in 1994) age.

Two squadrons in the North and Pacific fleets - this is all that the “great maritime power” has, waving at all sorts of “flag demonstrations” in the Far Sea Zone and other nonsense from this opera.

There is also no need to talk about the quality of combat missions. A number of experts, including domestic ones, agree that the IL-38 in the modernized version is thirty years behind the American Poseidon, and in the non-modernized version, by all fifty. With the Tu-142, things are no better.

And if you look at the number ... "Orions", which are the same age as the IL-38, also serve to this day, undergoing various upgrades. And why not serve if they were stamped under a thousand? And until now, almost two hundred flies in the USA and even more than a hundred from the Japanese. This is in addition to one and a half hundred Poseidons.

That is, for one patrol anti-submarine aircraft of Russia on the other side TEN aircraft. Moreover, not the same, but obviously more modern.

By and large, today there is practically nothing to fight enemy submarines. No, of course, two dozen aircraft is better than not having them at all, but this is a question of efficiency. Well, about the new anti-submarine aircraft today, one can’t even speak one’s tongue. Well, what new aircraft, when such things are happening in the country ... Not only they don’t produce - as far as we know, they don’t even develop them.

That is, prozhiranie Soviet heritage as it is. When, in 10-15 years, the wing of the last Il-38 falls off, Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin will express something appropriate to the moment, the government will give birth to another resolution aimed at solving the problem, and we will go to drink standing up and not clinking glasses for anti-submarine aviation. Former shield of the country at sea.

And there’s nothing to say here, at what pace everything we need is being developed and built, it’s clear that the I-38 and Tu-142 will be cut into disrepair before something comes to replace them.

With anti-submarine helicopters, more precisely, with a helicopter, everything is also not very smooth. He is. Unfading Ka-27.


It can be compared with the UAZ-“loaf” - since there is nothing more modern, we will use what we have. The Ka-27 is not mass-produced, the remaining helicopters are being upgraded to the Ka-27M. New acoustic and magnetometric systems, radio intelligence system, new radar with AFAR. Regarding the new GAS or new types of weapons - not a word.

Reconnaissance aircraft



There is no more reconnaissance naval aviation. As well as naval tankers should be immediately attributed here. They don't exist anymore either.

For reconnaissance, anti-submarine aircraft are used, if reconnaissance is generally interesting to anyone, and VKS tankers carry out refueling. Naturally, in the event of a conflict, the fleet will be left without the possibility of refueling its aircraft in the air, because with flying tankers in the Aerospace Forces it is also quite strained.

Here you can also put a coffin with the inscription “mine action aviation”, since mine action helicopters with towed trawls also remained there, not in the fields of unnamed battles for the budget.

Aviation RTR, EW, AWACS



Here, in order to show the state of affairs, it is enough to say that the Russian Navy is armed with TWO aircraft RTR Il-20RT and TWO electronic warfare aircraft Il-22M.

And there is nothing more to say or write. Two electronic warfare aircraft and two electronic control aircraft for all Russian Navy.

Transport aircraft



Here, oddly enough, a semblance of life still glimmers. But this life is provided by the planes of the Ukrainian Antonov Design Bureau, all these An-12, An-24, An-26, An-140 and An-72. As for spare parts and mechanisms for them, I will not speak, and so everything is clear. When these aircraft will be gone is a question without many unknowns.

search and rescue



It is mainly provided by helicopters and on the Black Sea as many as four Be-12 amphibious aircraft.

In general, it turns out just a unique situation: what the Russian military industry can produce in sufficient quantities, like, for example, carrier-based aircraft, no one needs because USC is not able to produce carriers for these aircraft.

The question is, why the hell do we need two whole naval air regiments, if there is no normal carrier for them, and what is, is not able to ensure the launch and reception of heavy Su-33s, except in the variant of half-empty tanks and half-armed weapons?

We are building a UDC in Kerch, but how will the marines be transferred from them to the shore in which case? Removed from storage by fifty-year-old Ka-29s?

We have nothing to fight with enemy submarines that are improving their defense methods, but with the stubbornness of a maniac, the development of a new GAS for the Ka-27 is being postponed.

Armed with modern anti-ship missiles, naval missile-carrying aircraft were a scarecrow for the ships of other fleets. But it is being destroyed, and such a theoretical question as “how can you stop the fleet of Japanese destroyers in which case” will only cause bewilderment. Apparently, the entire Japanese navy for one salvo of the Varyag, since the Admiral Nakhimov is now not expected at the Pacific Fleet.

Are there any prospects?


Obviously not. One gets the full impression that the command of the Russian fleet simply does not have a basic understanding of what tasks the MA should perform. Therefore, for all thirty years of Russian reality, naval aviation has simply been played around like something that is not very necessary, from corner to corner. Selecting and closing bases, transferring planes and helicopters, and so on.

At one time, back in 2021, Putin noted the role of MA and said that it was necessary to develop naval aviation:

"Given the build-up of foreign naval forces through the supply of modern nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers and attack ships, unmanned ships, we need to develop naval aviation at a faster pace, primarily by equipping the Navy with advanced aircraft and aviation weapons"

It's a paradox, Putin understands, but naval admirals don't. And for examples to go far - do not respect yourself.

We have already mentioned the Il-38 aircraft. Yes, an old man whose abilities are far below average. But those planes that serve in the Indian Navy, they can carry X-35 anti-ship missiles. The IL-38SD can take such missiles on board quite well and, if necessary, can implement them. And Russian planes cannot use Russian missiles. And the modernization of the IL-38 does not provide for such a moment.

Further. India again. Indian Su-30s easily take and use Brahmos anti-ship missiles, which are a refinement of our Onyxes in the export version, that is, Yakhonts.


Our? Ours cannot. Is there a 3M55 rocket in the aviation version? Eat. Why can't an anti-submarine aircraft get them into ammunition?

Why does the R-8A "Poseidon" easily take the AGM-84 "Harpoon" anti-ship missiles, and Mark.54 torpedoes, and sea mines, and a variety of air bombs? All that is available to the Il-38 is the oldest anti-submarine torpedoes AT-1 or AT-2 and APR anti-submarine missiles, also from the 60s of the last century. Moreover, it is worth remembering that the IL-38 does not have sights. Neither optical nor television. And the dumping of all weapons goes "somewhere there, in the direction of the enemy."

What prevents the MA from being strengthened with such things as the X-61, the aviation version of the Onyx? And use it with the same Su-30s, or what is the angler not joking with the Su-34? Which, so to speak, can be completely entered into the structure of the MA instead of the ancient Tu-22M. And this chic aircraft, taking not even a dozen, but 2-4 anti-ship missiles, will be able to reason with whomever is necessary with their help.

I like the idea of ​​making a naval strike aircraft based on the Su-34. This is just a great aircraft that can easily cope with such a task. Yes, the Su-34 will not be able to barrage for days somewhere out there, in the ocean, but it is quite capable of taking off and striking the enemy with the help of its weapons.

In general, a paradox: there are planes. There are missiles. But there are absolutely stupid questions of the elementary school level: why is there no new anti-submarine aircraft, with new means of detection? Able to hear a boat coated with even the most modern compositions? Why was the old and inefficient hydroacoustic station left on the Ka-27M during modernization? Well, it was no thirty years ago, why not develop a new one?

Can't we or can't we? Or is it just not necessary at all?


Approved (so said the head of Naval Aviation, Colonel Andrey Pakhomov) the concept of development of Naval Aviation. It was approved by the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy, Admiral Evmenov. Of course, there is nothing in the public domain, this is understandable. However, you can't just be happy.

The concept of development is when there is something in the base, and this something can be developed in some direction. In our case, it is necessary not to develop, but to reanimate the miserable remnants of Soviet naval aviation. And first of all - the construction of aircraft and the training of crews for them.

And when we still have the MA that the fleet needs, when the Navy thoroughly describes for itself where and how it will use its naval aviation, then it, the MA, will need to be developed. In the meantime, urgent surgical resuscitation is needed. And if everything goes well, over the seas it will again be possible to see wings with stars to fear the enemies.


In the meantime, everything looks more like optimistic speeches at the bedside of a terminally ill patient. Speeches are not on the topic of how best to cure, not a medical symposium, but rather a rally in which they say that the patient will live another hundred years.

Miracles do not happen.
217 comments
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  1. +34
    16 August 2023 03: 51
    Read the article by the author what recourse spoiled all the mood ... you can drown yourself in the hole from this hopelessness in the Russian fleet.
    I would like to read the comments of active military sailors on this article ... is it really that bad.
    Russia has two reliable friends ... the army and the navy ... it seems that the second friend needs to be treated seriously.
    1. +50
      16 August 2023 05: 42
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      I read the article, the author spoiled all the mood ... you can drown yourself in the hole from this hopelessness in the Russian fleet.

      Yes, read and there is no longer a surface fleet in Russia, just as there are no naval commanders.
      1. +18
        16 August 2023 10: 28
        Well, why, there are more than enough naval commanders!
        It's the only one in abundance!!
        1. +22
          16 August 2023 20: 06
          The author, of course, well done, because he raised the right questions, and this is a bold act. The answers to these questions are obvious, we need a different leader of the country, who will change the current dead people for those who understand what needs to be done and how, even if they are captains of the first rank or a drop, and in relation to the current commanders, he will give the command to the investigators of the military prosecutor's office to work out on their treacherous activities, regardless of titles and merits, as well as the investigators of the Prosecutor General's Office to check the activities of the leaders of the military-industrial complex and persons associated with them. Such investigative teams will very quickly find the crimes of all these Evmenovs and their predecessors and accomplices.
          In addition, the new commanders of the fleets and the commander of the Navy must develop a long-term plan for the development of the Navy for 25-30 years, set clear goals and determine the composition of the fleet of the future based on an analysis of what the fleets of other states will be like and what forces we can counter these fleets. In this regard, one of the most important forces of the Navy should naturally become the MA, which should be revived in 25 years, and the fleet should receive MRA air regiments with their tankers and coastal fighters, as well as anti-submarine patrol aircraft based on the MS-21 or Tu-204 and reconnaissance aircraft, search and rescue, RTR aircraft and much more. After drawing up such a plan, a clear task for the military-industrial complex should be set and a rigid plan should be drawn up with personal responsibility for its implementation.

          But this should be done by the new leaders of the country, the current leader has shown for 23 years that he is not able to do this.
          1. -4
            20 August 2023 11: 16
            That's really what the author knows how to put the "correct" questions in this way. And the eternal Russian question - why are all the "great" military commanders and naval commanders, the "geniuses" of military art, and in the recent past, the "great" medical luminaries not where they do it, but here, in the VO, where ... "discuss"? Just like the ancient Greeks: "... There are two types of people: some are rolling the world, while others are running side by side and shouting:" God, where is this world rolling!?
            1. -3
              3 October 2023 13: 49
              Do you think that the country and the fleet have arrived in the right place?
          2. -2
            20 August 2023 17: 23
            To be more precise, in nineteen years ...
      2. 0
        23 August 2023 17: 16
        In this case, it is worth comparing the total tonnage of surface ships of the Navy and the total tonnage of modern yachts of well-known oligarchs. The conclusions are obvious.
    2. +13
      16 August 2023 07: 35
      Our fleet and MA are, as always, in the pen. The situation is even worse than before the REV. The prospects are very vague. It all depends on the results of the SVO. Now it's not up to the fleet. And if SVO develops into TMV? One can only hope that all countries will not use nuclear weapons, just as Hitler did not use chemical weapons.
      Sadness.
      1. +6
        16 August 2023 09: 25
        No, the situation is fundamentally different from the REV. Now the fighting is going on in the European part of Russia and there is no need to deliver everything to the front line by ferries across Lake Baikal.
        The fleet is in the pen, sorry, the fleet outnumbers the enemy in everything from the number of ships and vessels to the bases, which does not prevent the admirals from losing the flagship. In the REV, the Japanese suffered losses in battleships near Port Arthur, in cruisers. Now I’m trying to remember which battleship on the Black Sea the enemy drowned and I can’t. So the questions to the admirals are what prevents them from imposing their will on the enemy and there is no need to talk about the air defense of the ships right away where the admirals were looking in a crowd then. Yes, gentlemen admirals can remember about Kolchak and his predecessor?
        1. +1
          19 August 2023 20: 22
          And we sank all Ukrainian ships in the Black Sea: every last one, not a single one was left: the small anti-submarine ship "Vinnitsa", the frigate "Getman Sahaydachny", the corvette "Ternopil", patrol ships: "Slavyansk" and "Korets", 5 boats type "Gyurza", small reconnaissance ship "Pereyaslav", control ship "Donbass", landing assault boat "Stanislav", river minesweeper "Genichesk", patrol boats of projects: 1400 (2 pcs), UMS-1000 (2 pcs), patrol boats pr. 50030 (3 pcs), crew and border boats, etc.
      2. -22
        16 August 2023 10: 35
        again x25
        at the Pentagon - this was recognized a long time ago in the 80s and shut up
        as soon as you come to terms with the fact that target designations for surface targets are issued by over-the-horizon radars and the range of anti-ship missiles is already comparable to the range of ZGRLS under 1000 km
        then your picture of the world - will become real - and more iridescent and calm
        naval missile-carrying aviation, like the satellites of the ICRC Liana, are just an addition to
        ships of the Russian Navy with ZGRLS Monolith, Mineral, Monument, Positive
        passive mode 750 km
        active mode 1500 km
        to intercept the Onyx anti-ship missiles, the Americans still had some chances, then
        RCC Zircon released at 3 km / s. from under the radio horizon, with an EPR of 0,001 sq.m. will be detected by Aegis 20 km from the US Navy AUG, selection and guidance of missiles for at least 8 seconds - and Zircon anti-ship missiles hit after 6,5 seconds
        and all criticism breaks down on these minus 1,5 seconds
        1. +19
          16 August 2023 11: 49
          Quote: Romario_Argo
          and all criticism breaks down on these minus 1,5 seconds

          It is strange that all these prodigies with over-the-horizon radars could not do anything with such a powerful vessel as the Yuri Olefirenko, which for months fired at our troops from the Dnieper estuary. In the end, it was possible to catch him only at the pier in Odessa. I wouldn't be surprised if this was done with the help of undercover intelligence.
          1. 0
            21 August 2023 21: 50
            Well, they drowned "Yura Oliferenko", right in Odessa, at the pier, and the local air defense miracle did not help him.
        2. +13
          16 August 2023 16: 32
          Yes, you are exceptionally right, ZGRLS give the most accurate target designation, missiles hit targets from orbit, and from the use of Khibiny, the crew of Donald Cook becomes ill with enuresis and the entire composition is decommissioned in the nearest port
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. +11
          17 August 2023 06: 47
          at the Pentagon - this was recognized a long time ago in the 80s and shut up
          as soon as you come to terms with the fact that target designations for surface targets are issued by over-the-horizon radars and the range of anti-ship missiles is already comparable to the range of ZGRLS under 1000 km
          then your picture of the world - will become real - and more iridescent and calm

          It is sad that there are still so naive people who believe in nonsense about ZGRLS and our satellite intelligence and stubbornly continue to carry gibberish about having no analogues in the world.
          At the same time, the fact that all of our satellite reconnaissance and ZGRLS are not able to detect even the airfields on which Ukrainian planes land or the movement of enemy columns does not stop them, as well as the free operation of the whole ship for almost a year, and all this is within the range of ZGRLS, allegedly detecting targets.
        5. +9
          17 August 2023 08: 48
          Quote: Romario_Argo
          ZGRLS Monolith, Mineral, Monument, Positive
          passive mode 750 km
          active mode 1500 km

          Roman , do not smack Nonsense , she is already in unbearable pain . And do not confuse radio-technical intelligence stations with radar. Just read at least something about real ZGRLS, for example, about "Sunflower", look at its antenna systems and the way they are built, take an interest in the detection range of typical targets and the ACCURACY of this detection. Read about similar American ZGRLS ... and you will definitely be let in.
          Quote: Romario_Argo
          RCC Zircon released at 3 km / s. from under the radio horizon, with an EPR of 0,001 sq.m. will be discovered

          Let's first equip our Navy with such missiles in the minimum sufficient quantity and provide them with accurate and reliable target designation. And I'll tell you a secret - the target at hypersonic speed goes in a plasma cocoon, this cocoon glows on the radar of the radar (especially the meter and decimeter ranges) like a beacon in the night. I happened to provide radar tracking for descent vehicles for three years at the turn of the 80s and 90s. So we have 5N84A took it from the edge of VIKO at a scale of 1500 km. And the old woman P-70 observed these descent vehicles from the very moment they entered the dense layers - even over North Africa. It is on the plasma trail. And we planted 115-117 such SAs a year. Mostly these were SA with a film footage of our reconnaissance satellites. But "Buran" also had to be planted.
        6. 0
          29 November 2023 13: 12
          At least some common sense reasoning against the backdrop of a crowd of all-goers.
    3. -15
      16 August 2023 07: 55
      The future belongs to unmanned aircraft with AI. You can downvote, but manned aviation is already "resting in the bose" and it has no prospects. The sooner our "military masters" understand this, the better.
    4. -28
      16 August 2023 07: 56
      Our cause is just, the enemy will be defeated, victory is ours!

      Quote: Lech from Android.
      I read the article by the author of what recourse spoiled all the mood ...

      It is necessary to read Roman correctly and everything will always be in order with the mood. He sometimes misses the right words - the fingers on the clave do not keep up with the course of his thoughts. laughing

      Quote: R. Skomorokhov
      Russian naval aviation: the end is very close...

      Tremble insolent Saxons! goes Russian naval aviation: your the end is near... laughing

      ps
      In the meantime, in response to our successes in the Northern Military District, Nabiulina Elvira Sakhipzadovna (with such a patronymic, it’s not difficult to guess where she will drive us ...) raised the key rate to 12% ... I wonder how many percent she will catch up to by the elections?
      1. +24
        16 August 2023 08: 05
        YOUR end is near


        Yes Yes.
        I just read on RBC in a running line: "US Treasury: The Central Bank of Russia invested $33 billion in US securities in July, $36 billion in June."

        How do you like it, Boris?
        So will we win?
        Can you clarify?
        1. -5
          16 August 2023 08: 36
          All power to the Soviets!

          Quote: AA17
          How do you like it, Boris?

          Pav was Khazin when he said that Nabiulina was promised a warm place in the IMF if she ruined Russia. Naive. In FIG, who will need it if Russia does not exist.
          "The service rendered is worthless."
        2. 0
          16 August 2023 12: 45
          do not litter with garbage and disinformation
          The Central Bank of the Russian Federation has reduced investments to 33 million dollars, i.e. in rubles 3 billion wooden in July
          businesses in Moscow have a monthly profit of more than 3 billion rubles
          1. -2
            16 August 2023 20: 24
            And the main thing for them is to throw shit on the fan with a pitchfork and direct it in the right direction.
          2. 0
            17 August 2023 18: 35
            Dear Romario_Argo (Roman).

            I agree with you, "$33 million".
            Your reproach is justified.
            I got excited. Guilty.
            I will be more careful.

            Although, if our finances are frozen, why is the Central Bank of the Russian Federation again investing in US securities?
            What guarantees can there be that a part of this money will not be used to finance the Armed Forces of Ukraine?
            The volume of Russia's investments in US government securities in March 2023 increased compared to the previous month and amounted to $77 million, follows from the data presented in the report of the US Treasury.

            In February, the volume of investments was $75 million, while in December 2022 it was $629 million, and in November - $2,092 billion.
            Investments in long-term US bonds in March of this year amounted to $68 million, and in short-term bonds - $9 million
            https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/6462b63c9a7947af30d8d722
        3. -2
          17 August 2023 11: 17
          It's fake. We cannot buy striped securities now - the Central Bank of the Russian Federation is under sanctions. And yes, the amounts are outrageous. Filter the market....
      2. +29
        16 August 2023 08: 31
        In the meantime, in response to our successes in the Northern Military District, Nabiulina Elvira Sakhipzadovna (with such a patronymic, it’s not difficult to guess where she will drive us ...) raised the key rate to 12% ... I wonder how many percent she will catch up to by the elections?

        Dear Boris! (Emphasis on the last word), I wildly apologize, but personally, you don’t “boom-boom” either in finance or in the economy, your path is “justifying any actions of the beloved, all-wise, simply brilliant-guardian of the Constitution.” Therefore, as for the actions of the head of the Central Bank for you personally, it’s just better to keep quiet, because you don’t understand shit in all this. Better, once again enlighten us - silly ones, about multi-move, "cunning plans" that led the country to "prosperity" and will further lead to the "greatest victory" over the "damned West" - you are doing this very well (without irony, seriously ).. Yes
        1. -24
          16 August 2023 08: 45
          All power to the Soviets!

          Quote: Monster_Fat
          about the actions of the head of the Central Bank to you personally - it’s just better to keep quiet

          If the Central Bank rate is 12%, then the price of goods produced by the manufacturer will rise no less than he receives a loan from the bank, and in order for the manufacturer to have a profit, he must raise the price of his goods even higher. And so along the chain: from the Central Bank, and gaskets, to the manufacturer, then the manufacturer, to our pocket ...

          So how will inflation go down or up?
          Is that the goal pursued by the Central Bank, telling us about the fight against inflation?

          Fighting inflation by raising the key rate is like putting out a fire with gasoline. hi

          Better, once again enlighten us - silly ones, about multi-move, "cunning plans" that led the country to "prosperity"

          Russia is the fifth economy in the world. Third Marine. The strongest army, etc. and so on..
          We flew to the moon! tongue
          1. +12
            16 August 2023 09: 22
            Quote: Boris55
            Russia is the fifth economy in the world. Third Navy...

            Wow, wow, wow....!!!
          2. +16
            16 August 2023 09: 44
            Quote: Boris55
            We flew to the moon! tongue

            So far, only your caps fly far, and not only to the Moon, but even to Mars. One problem, no one is even afraid of your hats. But your "dashing and silly" look is very amusing. wink
          3. +18
            16 August 2023 10: 32
            Russia is the fifth economy in the world. Third Marine. The strongest army, etc. and so on..

            Yes, you, my dear, you should go to the hospital, get treated.
            Better in Kashchenko ...
          4. -14
            16 August 2023 12: 50
            loans in banks are issued under state programs
            the Central Bank rate of 12% does NOT affect interest on loans, leasing, letters of credit in any way
            I have a client (large business, with revenue of more than 2 billion rubles in 2022)
            today took a working loan in Sberbank for 400 million rubles under 11% and under the guarantees of the Entrepreneurship Support Fund (state program)
            even lower than the Central Bank rate of 12% tongue
            1. +5
              16 August 2023 20: 20
              Yes, my friend, you are not even on the Moon, apparently on Mars ....
            2. -1
              17 August 2023 11: 41
              loans in banks are issued under state programs

              You think with your own head if it’s normal for you to give 11% in the form of interest, then these 11% will fall into your costs, which you will pass on to the consumer. As a result, inflation and a decline in sales and hence production. If your goal is to slow down the Russian economy and stop production, then this is a great step. Only on what shisha will you do import substitution?
          5. The comment was deleted.
          6. +5
            17 August 2023 03: 56
            Russia is the fifth economy in the world. Third Marine. The strongest army, etc. and so on..

            Here I read this individual and directly pops up
          7. 0
            17 August 2023 09: 36
            It doesn't work that way. With a cheap loan, companies buy imported goods and equipment for the future, and citizens also buy expensive equipment on credit. Everything provokes imports, the growth of the dollar, after which everything rises again in a circle. The right decision was to raise the rate, dampen credit activity and imports. + enable financiers to earn more on the ruble than on the dollar.
            Don't touch Elvira, she knows her business.
          8. +1
            17 August 2023 11: 31
            Russia is the fifth economy in the world. Third Marine. The strongest army, etc. and so on..

            What reality are you broadcasting from? Russia is in 11th place after Canada and Brazil. The size of an economy is determined by the size of GDP in US dollars, which is a common measure as weight in tons and distances in kilometers.
            GDP in PPP is calculated for highly specialized economic purposes and our stupid propaganda refers to them simply because our country's place in PPP is much higher there than in reality. But you will not be able to buy goods for example in China or Estonia for 1 dollar earned in Russia for more than one dollar earned in the USA.
            And if you want to look at the real efficiency of the economy, then look at our place in the ranking of countries in terms of nominal GDP per capita, which shows the size of GDP regardless of the size of the population of the country and there we are in 63rd place and we were overtaken by China, which increased its GDP by per capita doubled in the last 10 years. And our place in the list of countries by GDP changes along with oil and gas prices.

            Advertisers in the President's Office came up with the second army of the world, but the second army of the world in 2023 cannot be in such a state as to allow the battle of one of its tanks against 8 enemy ones.

            For our merchant fleet, which is not better not to remember. This is the merchant fleet of the USSR, which, as our guarantor says, could do nothing but galoshes, was one of the largest in the world.
            1. 0
              17 August 2023 20: 28
              That is, Canada's GDP is more? With four times the population
            2. +2
              19 August 2023 20: 27
              In PPP, the GDP of the countries of the world is considered by both the IMF and the International Bank to be a generally recognized practice. Far from all goods that are sold and consumed in Russia are of imported origin (to the question that for 1 dollar you can buy everywhere for 1 dollar), quite the opposite, from food to fuel (and heating, respectively), services (health care, communications, education, etc.), electricity, etc., etc.
          9. +1
            17 August 2023 20: 26
            Your joy would be understandable if you were a resident of Zimbabwe who sent a device to the moon. Like, never, and now - both are on! And the USSR sent devices to the moon two-thirds of a century ago
          10. -2
            3 October 2023 13: 55
            You wouldn’t choke in a patriotic frenzy. And with the Moon the obscurity came out..
    5. +8
      16 August 2023 10: 23
      I read the article by the author of what recourse ruined my mood ... you can drown yourself in the hole from this hopelessness in the Russian fleet.
      I would like to read the comments of active military sailors on this article ... is it really that bad.
      Russia has two reliable friends ... the army and the navy ... it seems that the second friend needs to be treated seriously.


      Welcome to a reality that is very different from parades and solemn reports.
    6. The comment was deleted.
    7. 0
      17 August 2023 10: 36
      Roman, thanks. I would like to add one point - 24 Apr. In 2023, four fleets of the Russian Federation and the Caspian flotilla will be withdrawn from subordination to military districts (i.e. from dual subordination) and will return to direct subordination to the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy.
      And the land generals (during the days of the USSR there were more stripes in Moscow alone than in the entire army of the Yankees) THIS problem did not bother.
    8. 0
      18 August 2023 20: 03
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      you can drown yourself in the hole from this hopelessness in the Russian fleet.

      And most importantly, there are no extreme or responsible for this. They have "everything is fine beautiful marchioness."
    9. -1
      21 August 2023 05: 08
      Quote: Lech from Android.

      I would like to read the comments of active military sailors on this article ... is it really that bad.

      Active military sailors will twist your finger at your temple and send you on a journey on foot ... to study article 280 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation for defamation. This is for you .. And something more serious can fly to them.
      The author of the article also found time to arrange Yaroslavna's crying, and most importantly, why the hell? What is the meaning of the article?
    10. 0
      23 August 2023 12: 14
      And the first one is healthy and cheerful? For more than a year, you can’t cope with the Ukrainian army ...
    11. -1
      30 September 2023 08: 19
      And Skomorokhov only writes about everything lost. It seems like a lot, but it all kind of stinks. I'm already sorting it out by headings. And most importantly, an expert in everything. From cowards to rockets.
  2. +35
    16 August 2023 03: 59
    For the first time I read Skomorokhov's article about the Navy and there is nothing to add. I agree with the author's opinion 100%...
    1. AUL
      +16
      16 August 2023 07: 29
      When years through 10-15 the wing of the last IL-38 will fall off, Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin express something appropriate to the moment,
      Nightmare...
      1. +14
        16 August 2023 07: 52
        The article is undoubtedly about sore points. Yes, it’s useless. All the current bosses are former servants of Yeltsin and "Bill's friend" (who sat in governments, who carried suitcases, who stole in those, like the current vile times). To raise the country, rulers like I.V. Stalin and L.P. Beria, and not followers of Gorbachev and admirers of Solzhenitsyn with their cowardice, desire to live in the West, but to steal in Russia, illiteracy, inability to do the simplest analyzes in politics, economics, and government. Bardeliero in the country will continue. It is useless to write about what needs to be done. Everyone knows everything and who is to blame for this too.
        1. -3
          17 August 2023 02: 53
          Quote: Taimen
          To raise the country, rulers like I.V. Stalin and L.P. Beria are needed, and not followers of Gorbachev


          To be fair, Comrade Stalin, too, in the sense of the fleet and aviation, is not so well danced very well. Suffice it to recall the epic with the pre-war re-equipment of the Red Army Air Force, which resulted in three unfinished fighters, one of which was disgustingly armed, the other could not be mass-produced, and the third was made from materials imported from abroad. And also the epic with the attack aircraft, which suddenly, instead of the plane of the Ivanov program, became again the raw and unfinished IL-2.
          There is no doubt that the ability to plan years ahead would be useful for our leadership now, but I would like to avoid the failures that befell the armament of the Red Army in the interwar period.

          Quote: Taimen
          Everyone knows everything and who is to blame too.

          I don't know. Who?
          For example, I assume that the admirals of the 90s-2000s were the culprits of the problems with marine engines, who included engines manufactured by NATO countries and Ukraine in ship projects. Instead of promoting their manufacturers.
          I see Pogosyan specifically as the culprit of the problems with the MA fighter and assault fleet, with his slanderous idea of ​​​​re-equipping the entire fleet of the Russian Air Force with Su-27 family aircraft, as a result of which all aviation design bureaus were actually destroyed in Russia, except for Sukhoi, and a huge amount of money was thrown away for this crazy project. Meanwhile, right now, when it turns out that not the Su-30, but the Su-34 is the only one that can perform full-fledged strike missions, the Sukhoi Design Bureau, in a strange way, is in no hurry to create a naval version of this aircraft.

          Or \
          cat abandoned kittens
          Is it Putin's fault?
          1. +3
            17 August 2023 13: 17
            You will probably be surprised, but all aircraft go through the stage of "unfinished" when they are created. Passed it and Yaks with LaGGs, and IL-2.
            If you think that German aircraft from sketches immediately went into the "finished" state, then I recommend, for general development, to take an interest in problems, for example, when creating the FV-190.
          2. 0
            21 August 2023 18: 02
            Quote: abc_alex
            Suffice it to recall the epic with the pre-war re-equipment of the Red Army Air Force, which resulted in three unfinished fighters, one of which was disgustingly armed, the other could not be mass-produced, and the third was made from materials imported from abroad. And also the epic with the attack aircraft, which suddenly, instead of the plane of the Ivanov program, became again the raw and unfinished IL-2.
            There is no doubt that the ability to plan years ahead would be useful for our leadership now, but I would like to avoid the failures that befell the armament of the Red Army in the interwar period.

            I have never been a defender of Stalin, but you should have read more memoirs, and not ready-made tendentious articles from tyrnet ..
            No wonder there is a proverb: "Stalin took the country with a plow, and left it with an atomic bomb."
            Tsarist Russia was an agrarian country and lost half of its intelligentsia from emigration, and the second was shot by the Bolsheviks.
            So what Stalin did (industrialization) - he built 9 thousand only large enterprises in 6 years, probably no other state could do.
            And lying-China has done a cleaner trick for 30 years.))
          3. -2
            3 October 2023 13: 58
            Yes, write right away: “It was the Bolsheviks who laid the mine.” That’s all. I wonder if there is an abomination that you, the guards, are not able to justify?
        2. -1
          17 August 2023 20: 31
          With the fleet of Comrade Stalin during WWII, things were so-so.
  3. +15
    16 August 2023 04: 28
    It's a shame, because during the Great Patriotic War, naval aviation could, perhaps, even more than surface fleets

    Even now aviation can do more than all these rusty tin cans, called surface ships, which stood the whole war either in bases, or, even worse, were sunk.

    Laying minefields, anti-submarine operations, landing support, electronic warfare, rocket and bomb strikes against enemy surface ships and the coastal strip, and much more - that's what aviation can do! In addition, this is all many times cheaper than if all this was done by surface ships ...

    P.S.. And the fact that they completely killed aviation, and not only naval aviation - I completely agree with the author ...
    1. Eug
      +16
      16 August 2023 06: 46
      Somewhere else in the 80s I met a figure - 70% of the ships in World War II were sunk by aircraft. But in general, I don’t see a system in the development of the fleet from the word "completely." Even if we take the constantly under construction and seemingly ultra-modern nuclear submarines - are there forces that can cover their exit from bases and deployment, or maybe? I suspect that it is Avos - not Neptune - who is the real god of the Russian fleet ....
      1. +6
        16 August 2023 08: 23
        Quote: Eug
        forces that can cover their exit from bases and deployment, or at random?

        In the absence of forces to support the combat stability of nuclear submarines, it can be assumed that their deployment is provided by pack ice. Well, maybe too... wink
    2. +4
      16 August 2023 12: 09
      no offense to aviation - but the thesis that "......... much more - that's what aviation can do" - is confirmed (or refuted) by launches of nurses "from cabling" and throwing cast iron in the sky. I won’t talk about strategists - support for landing or infantry - not their profile
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  4. +42
    16 August 2023 04: 33
    The author is certainly mistaken - this is not, that is not.
    Go out into the city, look - business centers, gas stations, shopping centers. Everything is there for a happy life of Russians!
    Who needs this naval aviation, we have enough modern weapons without it. Some parades are worth something! wassat
    If you don’t believe me, look at the military acceptance, Konashenkov’s reports and other speeches of the rulers on blue TV.
    1. +6
      16 August 2023 04: 48
      No need to blame shopping centers and gas stations. Even before the NMD, the share of spending on defense and the State Defense Order was under 4% of GDP, or 50-60 billion dollars annually, which is quite a lot. Another thing is how these funds were used and the fact that for some reason they were not enough for naval aviation.
  5. +10
    16 August 2023 04: 37
    A few years ago, the defense industry was given the task of unifying the Su-35 and Su-30 in order to reduce repair and maintenance costs. In the context of the general task of reducing defense costs, this is the right decision (without knowing the costs of the system integration process).

    But even then I saw an additional, tactical solution:
    Su-30s are fully surrendered (and transmitted) to the fleet, replacing the Su-24, Su-27.
    And the Air Force is formed only from the Su-35. In this version, now the attack (in the article - "assault") aviation of the Navy would have completely replaced the Su-24, which is very important, taking into account the Black Sea, Japanese and Baltic threats, really threatening adversaries.
    At the same time, the Air Force would not have suffered much, given that the ground part of us is always more protected, with less threats!
    Unification between the Su 30/35 would not hurt anything, it would go "as usual".
    Some kind of effect of working with one type in both the Navy and the Air Force - in any case it would be!

    As a result, now, the Su-30s are "smeared" over the Air Force and the Navy,
    and the strike (coastal) aviation of the Navy has not been completely updated,
    which I consider an absolute priority: a weak fleet must be especially covered!
    Even the change in international relations since 2014 did not affect the strengthening of the Aviation of the Russian Navy !!!
    In general, I agree with the author of the article (thanks for the material): fleet aviation is a poor relative :(
    1. +3
      16 August 2023 07: 52
      Quote: Feodor13
      fleet aviation is a poor relative

      This has all been going on since Soviet times, a small example - only in naval aviation there is such a position as chief of naval aviation, it would seem a trifle, but in reality - they do not allow themselves to be called commander, like that - sit cricket and know your place.
      When part of the Su-24 regiments was transferred to naval aviation (late 80s), stupidly renaming them assault regiments, they simply howled, from naval arbitrariness, there were many who wanted to steer, from among those who walk the seas.
      1. +3
        16 August 2023 11: 33
        I don’t know how it is now, but there used to be the position of “Chief of the Tank Troops”.
    2. +3
      16 August 2023 14: 27
      Quote: Feodor13
      But even then I saw an additional, tactical solution:
      Su-30s are completely given (and transferred) to the fleet, replacing Su-24s, Su-27s.

      After that, the Aerospace Forces declare that they cannot provide support for the troops with a few Su-35s - and the MA is finally taken away from the fleet and transferred to the Aerospace Forces. That's it - the fleet remains without aviation.
      Quote: Feodor13
      As a result, now, the Su-30s are "smeared" over the Air Force and the Navy,
      and the strike (coastal) aviation of the Navy has not been completely updated,
      which I consider an absolute priority: a weak fleet must be especially covered!

      Do you think that if the fleet is given more aircraft, this will change something? What prevented the Navy from covering the ships in a single theater with the available forces of the MA of the four fleets? Despite the fact that for two kiaps the Black Sea is actually a "second homeland".
      1. 0
        16 August 2023 20: 37
        Quote: Alexey RA
        After that, the Aerospace Forces declare that they cannot provide support for the troops with a few Su-35s - and the MA is finally taken away from the fleet and transferred to the Aerospace Forces. That's it - the fleet remains without aviation.
        After that, naval aviation is created in the Aerospace Forces, senders go to the fleet, and those who are friends with them, and not sailors, who consider them to be an absurd deed that brazenly encroaches on their favorite ships and in peace (budget), and in wartime (missiles).
        1. +1
          17 August 2023 15: 39
          Quote: bk0010
          After that, naval aviation is created in the Aerospace Forces, senders go to the fleet, and those who are friends with them, and not sailors, who consider them to be an absurd deed that brazenly encroaches on their favorite ships and in peace (budget), and in wartime (missiles).

          And the fleet is finally left without sea aviation. Because if the navy cannot Aviation, then pure aviators cannot sea. At the Aerospace Forces, the army was initially the main client, so the mindset of the Air Force command is sharpened for the support of the ground forces, air defense and ALCM bulleting. So the development of the MA, subordinate to the Air Force, will proceed with an eye to land needs, and the Navy will traditionally be in the position of the "last pig". And there will be no getting away from this, because the MA as part of the Air Force will be subordinate to the "ground" aviation generals in everything - from financing to combat training and development concepts.
          However, in the last war, the army team managed to take away naval aviation from the Navy even when it was a separate people's commissariat from them.

          The ideal solution for the MA of the Navy would be to raise naval officers who would know and understand aviation, and at the same time would be part of the "caste", and not white air crows. But this, alas, is available only for countries that have made an emphasis on aviation in the development of the Navy.

          In general, the conceptand let's reassign MA to specialized aviation specialists"reminiscent of the situation when OMON and SOBR were taken away from the Ministry of Internal Affairs and handed over to the Vovans from the RG. In theory, everything was hurt - the special forces were gathered into one department under the command of professionals in the "power business", and Kripo, if necessary, turns to the RG and calls for power support. But in fact, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, having given away special squads to the RG, immediately acquired new special squads of its own - because interagency cooperation has always been a stumbling block for us.
  6. +10
    16 August 2023 04: 42
    Roman, Roman! To the question: why not? Only one answer from our leaders - because on the bolt no one needs it request
  7. +6
    16 August 2023 04: 48
    But there are absolutely stupid questions of the elementary school level: why is there no new anti-submarine aircraft, with new means of detection? Able to hear a boat coated with even the most modern compositions?

    Because a PLO aircraft needs a base - a serial pax with a decent range. Moreover, it is 100% domestic hardware and electronics equipment. Do we have such a plane? That's what it is...
    1. +5
      16 August 2023 07: 06
      There were rumors that the Tu204 would be considered as a carrier. Or Il114, which is not yet available and there is no engine either. But in this case, there will be an issue with the payload weight
    2. 0
      16 August 2023 20: 41
      Quote: Alexey RA
      Because a PLO aircraft needs a base - a serial pax with a decent range
      Well, there is still IL-96. But it is better to do all long-range means (DRLO, repeater, reconnaissance target designator, tanker, anti-submarine, electronic warfare, missile carrier, etc.) on the basis of PAK DA. But the means of "medium radius" really have nothing to do. MS-21 is small, and even reluctance to talk about IL and SSJ.
  8. +26
    16 August 2023 05: 13
    I just started reading the article, I immediately realized that it was written by Roman!
    Topical and without paints, which TK Zvezda loves to use so much!
    Essentially.
    Recently, on Google maps, I looked at the airfields that I once visited. Desolation. Everywhere everything is destroyed, and on some airfields, in case of emergency, it is impossible to land the plane, due to the fact that the runway is littered with anything!
    Everywhere devastation, not only in MA!
    Thanks for the article, Roman!
    1. +1
      16 August 2023 07: 31
      Quote: your vsr 66-67
      Recently, on Google maps, I looked at the airfields that I once visited. Desolation

      How is it, looked at Google maps? Just got curious.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +4
        16 August 2023 15: 59
        Quote: bober1982
        Quote: your vsr 66-67
        Recently, on Google maps, I looked at the airfields that I once visited. Desolation

        How is it, looked at Google maps? Just got curious.

        bober1982, open the application and look at the satellite, everything is perfectly visible there! It’s a pity I don’t know how to upload photos and screenshots to VO. I would show. I need to ask my grandson to teach me how to upload photos. laughing
        I remember how you loaded a naval aviation navigator a year and a half ago. True, he immediately merged after the start of the NWO.
        Or cream collected and merged. laughing
        So I'm just an air shooter! Not a navigator... laughing
        1. -1
          16 August 2023 18: 59
          Quote: your vsr 66-67
          open the application and look in the satellite, everything is perfectly visible there

          Why open them, and it’s so clear that the airfields are in a state of ruin, .....and sawed all the oaks on the coffins (joke)
          The spectacle of an abandoned airfield is, of course, creepy, even the plates on some are completely stolen. But, such is life, maintaining an abandoned airfield is an expensive pleasure, especially if there was no business before, and no money.
    2. AUL
      +9
      16 August 2023 07: 38
      Quote: your vsr 66-67
      I just started reading the article, I immediately realized that it was written by Roman!

      He wouldn’t have flown under the article “for discrediting ...” or some other! (If there were a good person, but you can always pick up an article.)
      1. The comment was deleted.
  9. +7
    16 August 2023 05: 26
    In one of the films of the series "Experts are investigating" there was a good phrase: "Dodik can do everything, but he cannot do everything at once." We cannot do everything we want. We cannot do naval aviation, bomber aviation, civil aviation, aircraft carriers and much more at the same time. To put it mildly, we are a country with a backward engineering industry, with a small population compared to the territory. we can't even make normal cars. We need to focus on what we need first. And by the way, a large, if not most, part of the engineering industry of the USSR was in Ukraine. As a former designer, I know this very well.
    1. +24
      16 August 2023 05: 45
      Naturally, we cannot all at once, because, as stated, we will not allow the militarization of the economy. This is in combat conditions. Against the combined efforts of fifty countries, for the most part industrialized. It is better to live as you are used to: build shopping and entertainment centers, hold championships and forums, withdraw currency and resources from the country, and grow personnel on the Forbes list.
      1. +4
        16 August 2023 08: 57
        At the next "Army-2023 international forum", coffee machines are advertised.
        1. +1
          16 August 2023 09: 34
          Quote: Boris Sergeev
          coffee machines

          Do they shoot coffee? Do they take 5th class armor from 200 meters?
          1. +1
            16 August 2023 13: 58
            fairies. a fairy flies out and grants a wish. Do you want a new anti-submarine aircraft that is nowhere more modern, do you want an anti-mine helicopter or even a multi-purpose nuclear submarine, do you want sweet oranges, etc. There is no successful success that is impossible in reality, in which the best part of the population of our vast Motherland already lives and from which our officials broadcast.
            1. +1
              17 August 2023 20: 37
              Military fairies usually offer to have real sex)
              1. 0
                17 August 2023 23: 17
                Military fairies usually offer to have real sex)

                Judging by the real state of our military equipment, the fairies have already fulfilled this proposal a long time ago. And if (when) everything that has been created by the current wise leaders will have to be corrected for real, and not in reports from television screens, the fairy will fulfill such a wish for almost everyone, without the option to refuse.
  10. +2
    16 August 2023 05: 26
    Able to hear a boat coated with even the most modern compositions?
    What about listening? Aircraft without the RSAB against modern boats are aircraft just for patrolling over the expanse of the sea ... And with the RSAB, things are hardly better than with the aircraft themselves.
  11. +21
    16 August 2023 06: 15
    I read the article and thought that the author Klimov M.A. it’s written well ... except that they say Putin understands, but the admirals don’t ... to say and forget is one thing, but to say and see to it that they do it is another. They said a lot of good things, but they did ...

    As the commentators rightly say, Russia now has other goals and objectives ... shopping centers, carnivals, Universiades, championships ... well, parades for show ... SVO clearly showed who is worth what ... and what is not, that there is nothing to show ... the eternal memory of the naval aviation of a GREAT country. With the Siluanovs, Nabiulins and Manturovs, everything will be so ... well, with those who SPEAK beautifully
  12. +1
    16 August 2023 06: 44
    Article from the series - Obvious incredible.
    By the way, about the Ukrainian AN-12 and others, as far as we know, this is a Soviet aircraft from the Soviet Antonov Design Bureau, which suddenly moved from the Urals to the Ukrainian SSR. Yes, and Motor Sich suddenly began to produce helicopter engines according to documentation from the city of Lenin.
    Probably it is necessary to be fair, to shovel the devastation for twenty+ years and build anew, not to cross the field.
    Someone said about the Russian state. officials, the fish should be cleaned not from the tail, but from the head.
    He is soft, oh, how soft.
    1. 0
      17 August 2023 08: 52
      What difference does it make what used to be there, the fact is that in the Russian Federation there is no production of spare parts for the products of the Antonov Design Bureau.
  13. +9
    16 August 2023 07: 09
    How sad it all is. But our oligarchs have their own fleet and their own aviation ... Only in the event of a war at sea, it will not help.
    1. 0
      17 August 2023 08: 53
      Why won't it help? They are wonderful in this fleet and aviation will dump foreign nests in their nests.
  14. +5
    16 August 2023 07: 24
    Unfortunately, it's all sad. The author is absolutely right. Naval aviation, as the strike force of the fleet, has died. What is in anti-submarine aviation was outdated back in the late 80s of the last century. It seems that everyone in the leadership of the Armed Forces is satisfied with this.
  15. -1
    16 August 2023 07: 25
    The An-24 has long been decommissioned, this is a passenger aircraft, not a transport one, the An-140 - the project for this aircraft was quickly closed both in Kiev and Samara, why the photo is attached is not clear.
    All aircraft of the An family are not developed by the Ukrainian design bureau, but by the Soviet design bureau.
    By the way, there are dozens of modifications of the UAZ-loaf, which is so disparagingly mentioned, which are quite modern models.
    Now there is a crisis of so-called traditional weapons, including manned aircraft, and why all this naval air armada is necessary - no one will say if it is needed at all.
    1. +3
      16 August 2023 16: 58
      Comrade beaver, enlighten me about modern modifications of the loaf, please. At least one, not dozens. Just do not confuse modifications and models.
      1. 0
        16 August 2023 20: 20
        Quote: Letterhead
        enlighten me about modern modifications of the loaf, please

        With pleasure, I just deal with these issues professionally, according to my current activities.
        UAZ - a loaf, a model, it is in the common people UAZ-452, which began to be produced back in 1965, then numerous modifications followed, I will not list everything, the list is huge, just a few - 3909,3741,2206, etc.
        If the first cars were equipped with a rather primitive 402 engine and a collective farm bridge, now Euro-4 engines and bridges are more advanced.
        A good car, loved by fellow collective farmers, autotourists and lovers of off-road driving.
        1. 0
          19 August 2023 14: 14
          The answer is not noteworthy. I’ll clarify: what exactly is modern in them? Or at least at the level of the early 2000s in the global automotive industry? These are clearly not the relays that I saw in the new booze in 2015, not the same level of comfort and reliability. Or have I seen the wrong UAZ?
      2. -1
        16 August 2023 20: 48
        How everything happens in practice in questions: model-modification.
        A man comes and asks... I need a cardan shaft for a UAZ-loaf, him a question ..... what model?, he says (if he still knows) ..... 3741, he has a question ........ what modification?, answer (this is if he knows) ........ 374195
        Next question....... a box of 4 st. or 5?, what engine?, Timken Bridge? Spicer? collective farm (Timken), military, hybrid?
        He speaks,I don't know, UAZ loaf
        Is the bridge one piece or two halves?
        I do not know.
        Go get your gimbal measured.
        1. 0
          28 August 2023 01: 01
          gee.gee... in
          And now the continuation of this topic: in the year of commercials 2016, about 58 cardan shafts appeared in the UAZ price list !!!!
          A man comes and asks ...... I need a cardan shaft for a UAZ-loaf, he has a question ..... what model ?, he says (if he still knows) ..... 3741, he has a question ... ..... what modification?, the answer (this is if he knows) ........ 374195
          Next, the question ....... a box of 4 or 5 st.?, what engine?, Timken bridge? Spicer? collective farm (Timken), military, hybrid?
          He says, I don’t know, UAZ-loaf
          Is the bridge one piece or two halves?
          Well, okay - we open the UAZ Internet catalog, we hammer in the VIN code - we get a complete set ... we look at the desired cardan.
          We inform the buyer - he is happy to the ass !!!!!
          He grabbed the cardan and sped off to the area for 150 km.
          In the morning at 9-00 he is already on the porch of a store with two cardans - which he bought and the old one.
          The new one didn't fit. Look at the old one - even the whole label remained on it .. and we ohrinevaem.
          Well, finally, the cardan from another model is worth it. They got it, compared it and gave it away - the client is angry, but nevertheless happily rushed off.
          We ohrinevaem from the frills of the factory - picking up a cardan is akin to a guessing game.
          And the funny thing is that I have never looked into the electronic catalog of UAZ for crap
          complete.
  16. +3
    16 August 2023 07: 27
    To have something you need to earn it. And under the USSR there was no such thing that prosperity was the same as in the West. On Senka and a hat.
  17. +11
    16 August 2023 07: 34
    I think that naval aviation, as well as anti-submarine forces, are included in the conspiracy and conditions for the zeroed and his curators in the United States to stay in power. That's why we had Chubais until he felt the alarm, that's why we fight in a quarter of the army, and we hold parades with forums. Why, we even refuse to recognize the war, despite the fact that on the other side, about 60 countries are already directly or indirectly taking part. And planes are produced in pieces, and there are no drills for 20 years. Under Stalin, in 20 years, the country was raised from ruin after the war. And then the power of creatures not capable of creating, who can only take away. What are the salaries of technicians and engineers? How many films have been shot, songs sung about working people? What to talk about when there's nothing to talk about...
    1. +8
      16 August 2023 14: 03
      How many films have been shot, songs sung about working people?

      No films about workers. _These_ can only shoot like this and nothing normal
  18. +3
    16 August 2023 07: 36
    Now, if someone said that naval aviation needed to protect oil and gas pipelines, then it would be ... But it seems that this truth is also inaccessible to minds in high offices.
    1. +2
      16 August 2023 11: 30
      "Sea oil pipelines" - it's cool!
  19. -3
    16 August 2023 08: 10
    We must always proceed from the funds available to us, and so we spent 40% of the military budget on the fleet.
    No need to monkey around and do everything like in the USA, only in single copies.
    The United States has a Poseidon fleet, well, let it be, no need to copy it. During the Second World War, aviation greatly helped in the hunt for submarines. And now the Americans need Poseidons, because. our nuclear submarines swim very far, without fleet and aviation cover. But American submarines will always be covered by both the surface fleet and aviation. US bases are everywhere. Do we need analogues of Poseidons?
    Scout planes? The radar on the plane will always be weaker than the radar on the ship. The connection of American ships (and they only sail in formations) Will notice our plane earlier and destroy it. So why on long-range scouts?

    We must proceed from real, not hypothetical problems. For example, how to protect the Kuril Islands. You understand that the analogy with Snake Island is direct here, except that the range of our Su-35s and Su-34s is approximately comparable to the distance to the South Kuriles.
    1. +4
      16 August 2023 14: 33
      Quote: ism_ek
      But American submarines will always be covered by both the surface fleet and aviation. US bases are everywhere. Do we need analogues of Poseidons?

      And you estimate the squad of surface forces to search for the ICAPL in the Barents Sea or in front of Kamchatka and the Kuriles. And the reaction rate of these ship connections.
      Alas, so far nothing has been invented better than an aircraft to control large spaces and promptly respond to target detection.
      1. -1
        16 August 2023 23: 47
        What are our interests in the Barents Sea or the Aleutian Islands. Are there any trade routes there? Well, let it float.
        In the event of a military conflict with Japan, all your beautiful, but defenseless aircraft will repeat the fate of Bayraktar in the Ukrainian conflict.
        1. +1
          17 August 2023 15: 43
          Quote: ism_ek
          What are our interests in the Barents Sea or the Aleutian Islands.

          These ones:

          The Navy must cover the SSBNs at any cost. And for detecting and tracking ICAPLs on approaches to positional areas, ASW aviation is the best solution.
          1. -3
            17 August 2023 22: 34
            Quote: Alexey RA
            PLO aviation is the best solution.

            Why is it the best? The plane itself does not see the submarine. He's dropping buoys. Wouldn't it be better to install stationary sensors and exclude aircraft as an extra link?

            Quote: Alexey RA
            The Navy must cover the SSBNs at any cost.

            This is also a monkey business. Yes, when the range of missiles was short, they were needed, but then .... We do not have the resources to cover the SSBNs. Well, there were a lot of missile carriers under the USSR (12). There was a chance that one would survive and strike in retaliation, but in the current situation...
            1. +1
              17 August 2023 23: 23
              We do not have the resources to cover the SSBNs.

              strange, there is money for yachts the size of a cruiser for socially responsible representatives of our business, but there is nothing to cover the strategists with. Then why spend money on them, because they are suicide bombers without a chance. We will not be the first to hit (except perhaps as in the joke "in Voronezh"), and if they are the first to hit SSBNs that we cannot cover, they die in any way without a chance to shoot back. Is that how it works? Although it would be better to erase this message, it is too in the outline of the general logic of the behavior of the leaders of the distant and sovereign country of Laos, no matter how they begin to execute.
            2. +1
              18 August 2023 13: 05
              Quote: ism_ek
              Why is it the best? The plane itself does not see the submarine. He's dropping buoys. Wouldn't it be better to install stationary sensors and exclude aircraft as an extra link?

              Not better. Because the stationary system will give the square of the possible location of the target. And then the alleged contact will need to be confirmed. And what is better for this - a ship with a speed of 30 knots (while thundering all over the sea) or an airplane with its 450 knots?
              Moreover, the PLO aircraft is universal. It can also act as a means of self-detection of submarines (with a wild consumption of RGAB for detection barriers, yes ...) - in areas where there are no SOSUS-like stationary systems (or where they are out of order) and where there are no GPBA carriers. And as an integral part of the PLO system as a means of operational additional reconnaissance and destruction of submarines.
              Quote: ism_ek
              This is also a monkey business. Yes, when the range of missiles was small, they were needed, but then ....

              And then positional areas appeared along their shores. But they did not remove the enemy’s ICAPL problem - SSBNs or SSBNs still need to get from the base to the area and survive in the area itself.
              Quote: ism_ek
              Well, there were a lot of missile carriers under the USSR (12). There was a chance that one would survive and strike in retaliation, but in the current situation...

              And now we have 10 SSBNs. They have 40% of strategic SBCs. And the Navy, first of all, is obliged to do everything to cover them.
      2. 0
        17 August 2023 09: 52
        Quote: Alexey RA
        in the Barents Sea or in front of Kamchatka and the Kuriles.

        Well, it’s easier to put stationary sensors there. Dropping expensive buoys every time ... Expensive
        1. +2
          17 August 2023 15: 49
          Quote: ism_ek
          Well, it’s easier to put stationary sensors there. Dropping expensive buoys every time ... Expensive

          And the Navy is generally not cheap. But we always like to save on matches, turning multibillion-dollar expenses from justified into meaningless with penny savings.
          How the Commander-in-Chief Chirkov dreamed there ... and let's abandon the PLO ships of the near zone and assign their tasks to coastal systems and aviation. But we won’t allow this aircraft to be spent on the RGAB, yes ...

          In general, somewhere I have already seen this. Oh yes, a hundred and twenty years ago, millions were also swelled into the fleet, and then they began to save on it. There was no money, not only for the purchase of a second set of shells and barrels, but even for testing new shells by firing. How it ended - everyone remembers.
  20. +8
    16 August 2023 08: 18
    As if 10 or 20 years ago, the Air Force did not know that the Il38 and Tu142 were outdated. The bell was loud when India switched from Tu142 to P8. If there is no carrier, then what is there to talk about? Tupolev for 30+ years has not created a single aircraft at all. Il created 112, which does not meet the specifications of the customer and whose fate is very vague. But big uncles submit "upstairs" beautiful reports with color pictures and graphs
  21. +4
    16 August 2023 08: 21
    Now there is no concept of using the remnants of the Navy, what to say about MA.
  22. +6
    16 August 2023 08: 42
    do we have it only in naval aviation? Have us so everywhere where not spit. After all, they created a consumer society, well, they created it, why does the consumer need naval aviation? he doesn’t fucking need it, like machine tool building, electronics, light industry, and so on and so forth. The whole country is in credit bondage, for which they fought and got it - now everyone has jeans and 120 varieties of sausage (which is life-threatening to eat) ... hi
    1. +3
      16 August 2023 12: 23
      You won't believe it, but you're right. People need 120 varieties of sausage, not naval aviation. Well, they do not want to be content with one variety on Sundays. On the other hand, people already allocated 50-60 billion dollars annually for defense (this is about 4% of GDP), but the quality of administration is such that there is enough for parades, but not for naval aviation. So do not blame 120 varieties of sausage for the lack of naval aviation.
    2. +3
      16 August 2023 13: 34
      Is one dependent on the other? Is it really impossible not to maneuver between Scylla and Charybdis: either the state monopoly on everything or wild capitalism, but try to somehow combine the best: the state is above all, but if people need Huggi-Waggi toys, then let them produce (at the same time we are tax revenue get)?
      After all, Uralvagonzavod does not produce sausage in our country, but relatively private producers
      1. +1
        16 August 2023 17: 48
        Uralvagonzavod makes its crafts on taxes from the sale of sausages. And in order to have more products from Uralvagonzavod, it is necessary to raise the tax on sausage. Of course this is conditional, but the principle is something like this.
      2. 0
        23 August 2023 12: 28
        So it was under Stalin. Artels produced consumer goods and other small things, and the state was above all.
    3. -1
      17 August 2023 20: 49
      It remains to find out how the amers enslaved in loans - each has a dozen credit cards - managed to win back such a fleet. And not only the fleet. Or the Japanese
      1. 0
        17 August 2023 23: 31
        so there wise leaders collect resources from all over the world, to which the wise leaders of countries such as sovereign Laos drain their currency savings of hundreds of billions of dollars torn from their own economy and natural resources of any kind for free (see the fate of candy wrappers frozen in the accounts of Laos, which these resources were paid). And from their internal "human resources" also juices to the fullest. The wise leaders of Laos did not come up with the idea of ​​"people are the second oil" themselves, they spied on a white gentleman.
        1. 0
          18 August 2023 09: 04
          Well, as it were, not only the leaders of Laos are investing in US government bonds. But also, for example, cunning narrow-eyed neighbors. In general, it's funny, green papers, not backed by anything, where they like it, in any hole in the world. And for Laotian money in the same hole they can punch you in the face. How so???
          1. +1
            18 August 2023 12: 47
            I think it has something to do with the leaders of Laos...
        2. +2
          18 August 2023 09: 06
          That is, hundreds of thousands of immigrants go there every year to be mocked from the heart? The same Mexicans go across the border at night, because they like to be with them "to the fullest"?
          1. 0
            18 August 2023 17: 52
            Well, for the Mexicans there, maybe the American Etsik with nails will be a paradise, hard-working migrants from the villages are also good for us. but our fools also fly there to the light. there are also IT specialists or highly professional specialists - I can understand that they can get a good job there for the first time, paying anyway a price that they don’t suspect at first, but it’s acceptable to someone. But when hard workers go there without rare knowledge and skills ... An example of a "city on a hill" showcase carefully illuminated in the back streets of the settlements of Laos by the cultural elite of Laos with the filing and help of a political elite
            1. 0
              19 August 2023 19: 35
              1) what will high-profile pros pay for the American dream? 2) it seems that those who know how to work with their hands, somehow get settled there
  23. +4
    16 August 2023 08: 52
    Yes, we cannot recruit a land army, it was difficult to recruit 40+ reservists, huge borders on land are not guarded everywhere, what kind of seas are there? All right, people, what kind of equipment, these are not tanks to rivet, these are ships, special aircraft, everything that accompanies this needs to be developed and formed almost anew. For some reason, the top needs new and old airmen, they recruit everyone there and money there, otherwise the people will not understand. And we won't pull the sea.
    1. +3
      16 August 2023 17: 32
      Quote: Vadim S
      For some reason, the top needs new and old airmen, they recruit everyone there and money there, otherwise the people will not understand.

      The people who think at least a little do not understand why the Airborne Forces without the VTA? And yes, when and where was the last mass parachute landing?
      1. +1
        17 August 2023 09: 04
        And yes, when and where was the last mass parachute landing?

        Market Garden is most likely, but it can’t even be called particularly successful, the last successful one was carried out by the Germans in Crete (he, in my opinion, is the only one), and well, the French in Vietnam, like paratroopers, were thrown off, but there were opponents, to put it mildly, even are not nearly equal.
      2. -1
        17 August 2023 12: 04
        Of the successful ones, most likely Operation Neptune immediately before the landing in Normandy. There, the paratroopers disorganized the German defense well
        1. +1
          17 August 2023 15: 53
          Quote from Escariot
          Of the successful ones, most likely Operation Neptune immediately before the landing in Normandy. There, the paratroopers disorganized the German defense well

          Ahem ... Operation Neptune is just an argument against the current airborne forces. For it is enough to recall the number of sides that landed that landing, and the general balance of forces of the parties, especially in the air.
          And then look at our Air Force. And especially, WTA.
          1. 0
            17 August 2023 23: 35
            And in the absence of problems with the VTA, if the enemy has at least some kind of air defense more serious than the riflemen, the fate of such an assault turns out to be a big question.
          2. 0
            18 August 2023 13: 16
            Dnieper landing, let's not talk about strangers, we put our own here
      3. -1
        18 August 2023 11: 04
        Quote: Adrey
        The people who think at least a little do not understand why the Airborne Forces without the VTA?

        It is easier to recreate the VTA than the Airborne Forces (if they are suddenly liquidated). Actually, it is enough to invest a certain amount of money in the Ulyanovsk aircraft plant to expand the production of Il-76 from one to at least five (or better than ten) pieces a year - and the BTA will quickly come to life.

        Quote: Adrey
        And yes, when and where was the last mass parachute landing?

        Here it is necessary to take into account one circumstance, which is often forgotten. Russia is perhaps the only country in the world that may need to throw a massive parachute landing INTO its territory. It is enough for a hypothetical enemy to land even a limited naval or airborne assault somewhere in Chukotka, or Kamchatka, or Kolyma, to block the local airfield (put a tractor on the runway) - and that’s all, there’s no way to get there again in a reasonable time without parachute landing.
        1. 0
          18 August 2023 13: 10
          Quote: DenVB
          It is easier to recreate the VTA than the Airborne Forces (if they are suddenly liquidated). Actually, it is enough to invest a certain amount of money in the Ulyanovsk aircraft plant to expand the production of Il-76 from one to at least five (or better than ten) pieces a year - and the BTA will quickly come to life.

          Hehehehe...well we invested some money at the Zvezda plant. And there is still a problem with the "stars" - and it results in problems with the delivery of all projects on which these 112-pot monsters stand.
          Invested some money in the production of ship gas turbine engines. After 8 years, they barely received engines - and only for 22350.
          1. 0
            18 August 2023 16: 42
            Quote: Alexey RA
            He-he-he ... well, we have invested a certain amount of money in the Zvezda plant.

            Yes, it is clear that investing money in itself does not guarantee anything. Competent and responsible management of the enterprise must be attached to the money. But this is a solvable question, if there is an expressed will.
  24. +4
    16 August 2023 08: 57
    I try to talk about this state of affairs in every comment. Only now I don’t understand people who write such articles, and in another article praise Putin.
    1. +2
      16 August 2023 13: 45
      The desire to find a deep meaning and hope for everything good: “well, everything can’t be so simple, straightforward, clumsy, etc., we just don’t see, we don’t understand the whole picture of the world, but they see and know, which means this part of their multi-way activity for the prosperity of the country and the population in it "
  25. +14
    16 August 2023 09: 05
    In a nutshell, Roman is absolutely right. However, these are already three words ...
  26. +3
    16 August 2023 09: 08
    And we will go the other way: we will build a base on the moon, we will see everyone from there and severely punish. The main thing is to find water, not to carry it with you.
  27. -13
    16 August 2023 09: 21
    as soon as you read the title, you could not immediately look at the authorship. it has become so banal and predictable that it causes an attack of nausea in normal people.
  28. -7
    16 August 2023 09: 24
    How many times has it been said before talking about how bad everything is in Russia, it would be nice to see how things are with our sworn friends))) and they are not so hot, so it's too early to shout "Chief, everything is lost"
    1. +5
      16 August 2023 11: 49
      Quote: TermNachTER
      It would be nice to see how things are with our sworn friends)))

      You watched?
      Quote: TermNachTER
      and they are not so hot

      And they are very even. Yes, for the same USA, KOH AUG dipped, I think the preparation is no longer at the level of the Cold War. But in terms of naval aviation, roughly speaking, they have retained 60% of the potential, and we have 0,6%, if not 0,06%.
      And their base aviation received a qualitative increase, despite the fact that the number of VPs that need to be hunted fell by a multiple
      1. -2
        17 August 2023 08: 58
        But in terms of naval aviation, roughly speaking, they have retained 60% of the potential, and we have 0,6%, if not 0,06%.

        Well, now give the sources from which you have drawn such "accurate" information. I hope this is not difficult for you? but if the information is from the source of the OBS - you are welcome to figure out the cons. laughing
        1. +2
          17 August 2023 11: 25
          Quote from: QuestionsNeudobny
          Well, now give the sources from which you have drawn such "accurate" information. I hope this is not difficult for you?

          This figure is my assessment, made on the basis of many sources, among which there are fundamental ones, such as, for example, "Aviation of the Russian Navy and scientific and technological progress: Concepts of creation, development paths, research methodology", written by a group of authors - leading experts , who developed naval aviation and determined the tactics of its use in the USSR under the editorship of the aviation commander of the Russian Navy (at the time of the publication of the book) Fedin I.D. since the 80s of the last century. In addition, the materials available to me of scientific conferences held with the participation of academicians, generals and admirals, such as the conference "History, development prospects and combat use of aircraft carrier ships (aircraft carriers) of the Russian Navy"
          What exactly are you interested in?
          1. -5
            17 August 2023 12: 32
            do you use fiction? wow, your right
            1. +4
              17 August 2023 13: 24
              Quote from: QuestionsNeudobny
              use fiction

              You seem to be unfamiliar with the meaning of the word "fiction". And it means fiction, to which the sources I mentioned have nothing to do. As well as my personal experience of communicating with officers who served in the MRA and "anti-submarine".
              However, you probably have more significant sources on the state of Russian naval aviation? If yes, please state them.
    2. -3
      16 August 2023 13: 50
      Oh, and we love to look back, measure and compare, we don’t want to stand out with something good)))
  29. +1
    16 August 2023 09: 51
    Quote: Taimen
    To raise the country, rulers like I.V. Stalin and L.P. Beria are needed,

    Yes, in general, it would not hurt who argues! BUT! the main thing is people. Or rather, their absence. What do you think, if in former times similar to the current Kremlin splendours appeared, they would have sat there for a long time, behind a battlement? They would not even have been taken to the Lubyanka.

    The problem is with us. We are not the ones. And so - yes, leaders are needed. If there are those who are worth driving.
    1. +1
      17 August 2023 09: 07
      Something in the West somehow copes without leaders and they are fine.
  30. +1
    16 August 2023 09: 59
    "When the wing of the last Il-10 falls off in 15-38 years, Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin will express something appropriate to the moment..."
    He fell?
  31. +9
    16 August 2023 10: 43
    That is, prozhiranie Soviet heritage as it is. When, in 10-15 years, the wing of the last Il-38 falls off, Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin will express something appropriate to the moment, the government will give birth to another resolution aimed at solving the problem, and we will go to drink standing up and not clinking glasses for anti-submarine aviation ...

    At one time, back in 2021, Putin noted the role of MA and said that it was necessary to develop naval aviation ... It's a paradox, Putin understands, but naval admirals do not. And for examples to go far - do not respect yourself.

    Here the author needs to decide. One understands, or pretends to understand, and does nothing, or are there no naval admirals? That is, they don’t understand and don’t do it, but all the conditions have been created for them, financing, production and scientific base in full growth, specialists work with enthusiasm? How does the author present a solution to this problem? Evmenov sat and thought, and kaaak began to develop naval aviation, and kaaak began to build ships, new equipment went in batches ... But for all this to appear, it is necessary for enterprises to start working, which have been destroying the last decades, but nothing new has been invested in them, and they are not going to invest. And the government should not just scribble regular resolutions, but create conditions for development. Only a madman can, under existing conditions, try to organize the production of something, because with such credit interest, the final product will not be that golden, super-brilliant. And no government support. No one will give long cheap money. Everything is tailored for the export of resources, receiving bourgeois money for them, which also flow away, and often just stay there. Nothing changes. Only those industries that contribute to the export of resources are financed. Why should we develop something at home, when it is better to step on a rake and invest in securities of "unfriendly partners"? And the exchange rate of the ruble is such because it is beneficial for exporters, and we do not produce anything domestically. Previously, they hung nameplates on assembled German and French cars, now - on Chinese ones. We only have UAZ "loaves" that have been normally produced for the last 60 years, because "they immediately turned out to be hurt." They forgot how to make civil aircraft, there is no electronics, mechanical engineering is in the pen, heavy industry is only raw materials. In order for there to be development, the desire of the admiral is not enough.
    1. 0
      17 August 2023 09: 23
      How does the author present a solution to this problem?

      alas, he does not need it at all. the amount of money, the number of articles and the article itself per fan are important.
  32. +8
    16 August 2023 10: 45
    He grew up in an air town - naval aviation, scouts and jammers. My father told me something, in general terms - we have always been weaker than the fleet and its aviation, always! Especially compared to the States. But then at least they tried to catch up, but now ... It's sad
    1. +3
      17 August 2023 09: 19
      The scoop was weaker in most positions, but it managed to be at the level, firstly, the qualitative lag was not an abyss, secondly, this was compensated for by the mass character, and thirdly, the industry also produced good world-class samples. For this, the people paid with their standard of living, because it is incredibly difficult to fight against the entire developed world and it requires a wealth of resources. And then, in general, everything became sad, now this abyss of resources instead of the army goes to someone who knows, and the people continue to pay with their standard of living. This is sad.
  33. The comment was deleted.
  34. +4
    16 August 2023 11: 49
    All right
    achieves a fairly shabby and outdated Soviet legacy, and to replace it with nothing but big words and grandiloquent phrases ...
    It seems that the admirals are stuck somewhere in the 90s, and they only think about how to serve with the remnants of the Soviet legacy to the admiral's pension, and then at least it's all gone - the fleet, naval aviation
  35. +2
    16 August 2023 12: 05
    There was an idea to convert all Tu-204s into anti-submarine ones. So they are now needed in the GA. We plug holes.
  36. +10
    16 August 2023 12: 19
    This is what I understand, a sincere and staunch article, there have not been such for a long time!

    It's a paradox, Putin understands, but naval admirals don't. And for examples to go far - do not respect yourself.

    Exactly!
    No need to go far.
    "The king is good - the boyars are bad!"

    Andrei from Chelyabinsk, IMHO, abandoned the marine theme, because a series of articles "Russian Navy. Sad look into the future. Sad outcome"turned out to be prophetic.
    So now we will read Skomorokhov and Mitrofanov, believe in the best and hope to live up to this "best". And what, besides faith, still remains ...: "There were ups and downs in the history of the Russian fleet, but every time the fleet rose from the ashes and became stronger. I believe it will continue to be so, even if I don’t live to see it. " Andrey from Chelyabinsk (c)
  37. +2
    16 August 2023 12: 20
    I like the idea of ​​making a naval strike aircraft based on the Su-34.
    - well, at least something pleased laughing
  38. +2
    16 August 2023 12: 20
    Quote: AC130 Ganship
    As if 10 or 20 years ago, the Air Force did not know that the Il38 and Tu142 were outdated. The bell was loud when India switched from Tu142 to P8. Tupolev for 30+ years has not created a single aircraft at all. Il created 112, which does not meet the specifications of the customer and whose fate is very vague.


    In 2006, the military hacked down a project a la Poseidon based on the Tu-204.
    IL-112 is more likely to be reborn into another project with PD-8.
    Talk about a new platform based on the IL-114, but it's not fast.

    It made sense to buy Tu-142 and Il-38 from the Indians.
  39. +5
    16 August 2023 12: 28
    I read the article by the author of what recourse ruined my mood ... you can drown yourself in the hole from this hopelessness in the Russian fleet.
    I would like to read the comments of active military sailors on this article ... is it really that bad.
    Russia has two reliable friends ... the army and the navy ... it seems that the second friend needs to be treated seriously.
    Watch the video with Maxim Klimov on Roy TV, he is a frequent visitor to Kalashnikov, the man sincerely worries about our fleet and is not shy in expressions (not unreasonably), but while he is ringing the bells - there, at the top, there is complete peace, complacency and theft.
  40. osp
    0
    16 August 2023 13: 16
    Naval aviation is now so small that the position of its commander is now the position of a colonel.
    And it's called differently now.
    And yes, trouble is trouble.

    Here we have two naval fighter regiments, two simulators for them. And not a single aircraft-carrying cruiser in service.
    Although the Gorshkov could be with the MiG-29K, the heavier Kuznetsov with the Su-33.
    But there is neither one nor the other now.
  41. +1
    16 August 2023 13: 50
    Very strange. The colonel prepares the concept, the admiral (I hope not alone) accepts it. The fleet is in the pen, especially the Navy.
    My basic liberal opinion is that there should be a separate committee on the Navy within the State Duma, which would consider and discuss the concepts. Otherwise it doesn't work. Maybe everyone is waiting for the Il-114 to deploy a naval reconnaissance and submarine aircraft on it, and a rescue aircraft on the new Be-200, but from the outside everything looks unhealthy.
  42. -8
    16 August 2023 14: 56
    Today in the Russian Navy - 54 Il-38 https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/IL-38 and 22 Tu-142 https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu-142. Total: 76 aircraft. This is somewhat more than those THREE DOZENS of anti-submarine vehicles that the Russian Navy has, according to the author of the article. How many anti-submarine aircraft are in the US? "Orion" - 154 aircraft (in reality, there are 40 "Orions" in the Navy) and "Poseidon" - 112 aircraft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_United_States_naval_aircraft. Total: 150-250 aircraft (how to count). Is it really that big of a difference? The Americans want to control all the oceans, we - the coastal waters. From this point of view, we have not so few anti-submarine aircraft: 2-3 times less than the Americans. So it is premature to talk about the death of our anti-submarine aviation. The Americans, in principle, have no analogues of our Tu-22Ms, but our missile carriers can also carry "daggers" of protection against which, the Americans do not have and are not expected to.
    1. +4
      16 August 2023 17: 44
      Today in the Russian Navy - 54 Il-38 https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/IL-38

      Do you read what you link to? This data is seven years old.



      actually in the Navy there are - 40 "Orions"

      Not 40, but 52.
      1. 0
        17 August 2023 19: 54
        I wrote about the anti-submarine "Orions", there are indeed 40 of them, there are 12 more "Orions" with the electronic warfare function, but this is different (you can see the link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_United_States_naval_aircraft). As for the data on the IL-38, this is the latest information from the "omniscient" Wikipedia. It is unlikely that they have changed significantly.
    2. osp
      -3
      16 August 2023 19: 19
      All Tu-22M3s (and they have long been part of the DA, and not the Navy MA) will be decommissioned before the end of the decade.
      Due to fatigue cracks in the titanium elements of the airframe and the wing pivot.
      They don't have engines either.

      All Tu-142s and Il-38s are hopelessly outdated in terms of equipment and cannot search for modern underwater targets.
      1. 0
        16 August 2023 19: 44
        Umm... What other titanium elements?
        1. osp
          -3
          17 August 2023 00: 24
          The swivel joint of the wing seems to be.
          Because of them, KAPO cannot modernize the remaining several dozen "triples".
          It was considered that most of it is inappropriate after fault detection.
          1. 0
            17 August 2023 05: 40
            This assembly is made of steel, alloy 30KhGSNA.
      2. 0
        17 August 2023 20: 26
        It will be for you: both the much more ancient Orions (which are 65 years old at lunchtime) and the slightly younger Il-38s are still flying. So the Tu-142 is not in danger. As for their submarine capabilities, the Tu-142 of the early series were decommissioned, the most modern aircraft were left and they are being modernized: "After 2015, it is planned and is being upgraded to the level of Tu-142MZM and Tu-142MRM.[6] "https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu-142. And of course, there is no titanium on the Tu-142 "The main material for the construction of the airframe of the aircraft are aluminum alloys ..., steel ....., magnesium casting alloys ..."https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu -95
        1. 0
          18 August 2023 13: 19
          Quote: Andrey A
          As for their submarine capabilities, the Tu-142 of the early series were decommissioned, the most modern aircraft were left and they are being modernized: "After 2015, it is planned and is being upgraded to the level of Tu-142MZM and Tu-142MRM.[6] "

          Keyword - is planned. Don't you know about our bulk of plans ©. smile
          In fact, even in 2019, Taganrog carried out only repairs instead of modernization.
          According to PJSC United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), which is part of it, PJSC Taganrog Aviation Scientific and Technical Complex named after G.M. Beriev" ("TANTK named after G.M. Beriev") continues work on the scheduled repair of long-range anti-submarine aircraft of the Tu-142 family of the Naval Aviation of the Russian Navy.
          On December 12, 2019, the Naval Aviation of the Russian Navy received another long-range anti-submarine Tu-142MZ aircraft repaired at the enterprise (tail number "64 red"). After passing all the necessary tests, the Tu-142MZ was handed over to the aviation crew of the Red Banner Pacific Fleet and successfully flew to its permanent base.
          © bmpd
          1. 0
            18 August 2023 15: 22
            That is, repair - modernization is still going on and going according to plan !!!
            1. +1
              18 August 2023 19: 07
              Quote: Andrey A
              That is, repair - modernization is still going on and going according to plan !!!

              No. The plan is for renovations only. Without modernization - the same Tu-142MZ of the 1985 model, and not the M3M, are leaving the factory.
    3. 0
      17 August 2023 11: 22
      54 IL-38 is including prefabricated plastic models. Wrong about 5 times...
      1. +3
        17 August 2023 16: 16
        Quote: Glagol1
        54 IL-38 is including prefabricated plastic models. Wrong about 5 times...

        Nah, it's our favorite "documented" army game. That is, in official reports, the board passes as existing, but in fact trees have already grown around it.

        In the USSR, such a joke was with tanks before the war: the revision of the BTV under Timoshenko revealed the discrepancy between the actual presence of tanks with the documentary as much as 683 tanks, 780 tankettes and 382 BA. On paper, the tank arrived and was not written off, but in part it is not. Moreover, this situation was repeated further - so four dozen T-28s sent for repair and modernization disappeared at the LKZ: some of the vehicles were cannibalized to repair previously received tanks, some of the plant simply refused to repair. And according to the documents, the tanks were still listed as part. In general, the commission that arrived had to write off these "tank corps".
        1. 0
          17 August 2023 20: 30
          Before the war in the Red Army, officially, there were almost 25 thousand tanks and wedges, the difference in 683 vehicles is 2,5% of the total. Statistical error.
          1. +1
            18 August 2023 11: 25
            Quote: Andrey A
            Before the war in the Red Army, officially, there were almost 25 thousand tanks and tankettes, the difference was 683 vehicles

            You read the full comment. It says
            Quote: Alexey RA
            revision of the BTV under Timoshenko revealed a discrepancy between the actual presence of tanks with documentary as much as 683 tanks, 780 tankettes and 382 BA.

            That is, 5,57% of the total number of 26244 before the war - but at the time of the revision there were, I think, less
      2. 0
        17 August 2023 20: 28
        Will you. I referred to Wikipedia, what can you refer to?
    4. +2
      17 August 2023 16: 01
      Quote: Andrey A
      Today in the Russian Navy - 54 Il-38 https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/IL-38 and 22 Tu-142 https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu-142. Total: 76 aircraft

      You look at the year of the last modernization of the avionics of our PLO boards. With the same success, you can write down the Be-12 PLO aircraft.
      In fact, the Navy now has eight PLO aircraft. The rest are... something like Leopard 2A0 compared to 2A8 or M1 compared to M1A2 SEP V4.
      1. 0
        17 August 2023 20: 41
        Tu-142s are relatively new and are undergoing modernization, Il-38s - approx. 30 machines have been upgraded https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/IL-38. And so, the "Orions" are much older than our Il-38s, I'm not talking about the Tu 142
        1. 0
          18 August 2023 13: 25
          Quote: Andrey A
          Tu-142s are relatively new and are undergoing modernization,

          Planned under modernization. And in Taganrog, notorious for its delays.
          Quote: Andrey A
          IL-38 - approx. 30 machines have been upgraded https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/IL-38.

          Do you even read your links? There, in black and white, 8 (eight!) Upgraded Il-38Ns are indicated.
          Aviation of the Navy - 46 Il-38 and 8 Il-38N, as of 2016

          Or are you talking about the improvements of the 80s? So they are outdated by forty years - primarily in terms of data processing capabilities.
          Quote: Andrey A
          And so, the "Orions" are much older than our Il-38s, I'm not talking about the Tu 142

          But the Orions have already gone under replacement. And what do we have in this regard? wink
          1. 0
            18 August 2023 15: 08
            In the 1980s, due to the obsolescence of the Berkut PPK, it was nevertheless decided to modify the aircraft for the use of new RSL-16 buoys, as well as explosive sound sources. The Izumrud equipment was developed, which includes a 68-channel Volkhov receiver, equipment for processing and displaying sonar information, RSL-16 radio sonar buoys, interface units with the Berkut PPS (VIZ-s are not used). In total, about 12 aircraft were finalized.

            In the late 1980s, work began on the new Novella anti-submarine complex, but due to the collapse of the USSR and lack of funding, the complex was not in demand by the domestic Naval Aviation. But they became interested in the Indians, who are armed with Il-38. The new aircraft was named Il-38SD (Sea Dragon - Sea Dragon). A total of 6 aircraft were converted.

            A little later, by installing the Novella complex, it was decided to refine the domestic Il-38s, which received the name Il-38N. This is a maritime patrol aircraft for conducting underwater, surface and air reconnaissance, target designation, electronic intelligence and radio suppression. In 2015, 5 aircraft were converted.

            November 14, 2016. In Zhukovsky, the Il-38N anti-submarine aircraft of the Naval Aviation of the Russian Navy (tail number "11 yellow", serial number 880010308, serial number 103-08, registration number RF-75308, name "Mikhail Verbitsky") is completing flight tests after modernization. This is the seventh modernized Il-38N aircraft, and the first modernized aircraft under the 2015 contract for two aircraft. Il 38N "VIKTOR POTAPOV" see photo here http://russianplanes.net/images/to203000/202429.jpg[6]


            Total: 12 Il-38s with Berkut, 7 Il-38N, 6 Il-38SD (5 flies in India).

            The entire Tu-142 fleet of the Russian Navy will be modernized by 2020
            1. 0
              18 August 2023 19: 16
              Quote: Andrey A
              Total: 12 Il-38 with Berkut PPK

              Developments of the mid-80s. It's like counting modern IPC "Albatrosses" of the same time.
              It was about this dozen that I wrote:
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Or are you talking about the improvements of the 80s? So they are outdated by forty years - primarily in terms of data processing capabilities.

              Quote: Andrey A
              The entire Tu-142 fleet of the Russian Navy will be modernized by 2020

              We also planned to commission the head FR project 22350 in 2012, and by 2025 as many as 15 units should have been built. laughing
              1. 0
                19 August 2023 22: 53
                "Albatrosses" were built from the mid-60s, the "Emerald" system is 20 years younger. The difference is obvious, it is only slightly older than Novella.
                1. 0
                  20 August 2023 00: 39
                  Quote: Andrey A
                  "Albatrosses" were built from the mid-60s

                  1124M and 1124MU with a new filling are just the 80s. They now form the basis of the "paper OVR". And the Navy several years ago recognized their complete obsolescence and even planned modernization due to the lack of new PLO OVR ships in the future.
                  Quote: Andrey A
                  the Emerald system is 20 years younger. The difference is obvious, it is only slightly older than Novella.

                  Well, they sat down to take the beginning of development for one system, and for the other - entering service - then yes, the difference is small. And in fact between them 15 years. And those same 15 years, which accounted for the rapid development of digital electronics.
          2. 0
            18 August 2023 15: 30
            "The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has launched work on the modernization of the fleet of Be-12 anti-submarine amphibious aircraft, which have been in service with Soviet and Russian naval aviation since the early 60s.

            Earlier it was reported that Tu-142 anti-submarine aircraft would be upgraded. Thus, taking into account the long-standing modernization of the Il-38 anti-submarine aircraft, in the foreseeable future, all types of aircraft in service with the naval aviation of the Russian Navy will be upgraded.
            https://dfnc.ru/c106-technika/rossiya-moderniziruet-vse-protivolodochnye-samolyoty-morskoj-aviatsii/ Модернизируются и Бе-12, которых - 9 штук. Их я упустил. А значит общее количество ПЛ самолетов у нас - 84 штуки(вместе с теми что находятся на базах хранения, конечно). Не так и плохо.
            1. 0
              18 August 2023 19: 28
              Quote: Andrey A
              "The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has launched work on the modernization of the fleet of Be-12 anti-submarine amphibious aircraft, which have been in service with Soviet and Russian naval aviation since the early 60s.

              Yeah ... the RF Ministry of Defense also wanted to repair "Bratsk".
              We always have good plans. In fact, the decision was made in 2018. Do you have repair contracts? Is there a photo of at least one modernized Be-12? Let me remind you that each of the Il-38N was filmed from all sides during departure from the factory.
              1. +1
                19 August 2023 21: 15
                I repeat: we have 84 submarine aircraft, not THREE DOZENS, as the author of the article assured, which is a fact. I wrote about this and it's true. "Novella" and "Emerald" were created almost at the same time: the 80s, there is hardly a huge difference between them. 12 Il-38s were modernized on the basis of the Emerald, 8 - on the Novella, in total - 20 units. There is also the Tu-142, which is being repaired - it is being modernized exactly where it should be modernized (in Taganrog), it changes the index from MK to M3, which means modernization is underway, they won’t tell us about its depth anyway, neither you nor I have information, so you have to trust official sources and rightly so. The modernization should have been completed 3 years ago, it is quite possible that it is already really close to completion. It's logical....
              2. 0
                21 August 2023 21: 33
                Let me remind you: the Tu-142 MP has a range twice as high as that of the Poseidon (6800 km and 3400 km, respectively) and it can take a load much larger than the Poseidon. - In any case, the blood relative of the Tu-142, the Tu-95, can take at the maximum - 20 tons, and the Poseidon - 9 tons. And the modernization of the Tu-142 is only now, so their avionics, perhaps, are more perfect than those " Poseidon". So 2 dozen of our modernized Tu-142s are equivalent to 4 dozen Poseidons. So it's not all bad.
  43. +3
    16 August 2023 15: 09
    It's a shame, because during the Great Patriotic War, naval aviation could, perhaps, even more than surface fleets,

    In August 1941, the first raid on Berlin was made by the naval aviation of the KBF, it was on it that the stake was made, since the main part of the flight was over the sea. Then long-range bomber aviation joined in.
    1. +2
      17 August 2023 18: 37
      Quote: bionik
      In August 1941, the first raid on Berlin was made by the naval aviation of the KBF, it was on it that the stake was made, since the main part of the flight was over the sea.

      The first raid on Berlin was made by naval aviation only because the DBA was delayed: despite the fact that the order to fly to Ezel was received on July 30, the flight itself did not take place until August 9. The reason, most likely, is the catastrophic shortage of serviceable vehicles in the 40th Air Force DBA, from which the backbone of the DBA group was formed.
      With aircraft, the situation was more complicated. On July 30, the two regiments of the division had only eight serviceable and 20 faulty vehicles of the DB-3F and DB-3A types. By August 10, the number of serviceable vehicles had grown to 13. It must be taken into account that the division fought from the first days of the war, and the condition of the materiel was appropriate. In this situation, it is quite justified to involve the fresh 22nd Ap, who recently arrived from the Far East, in the task.
      On August 9, five aircraft from the 53rd and three from the 200th ap began flying to Ezel.

      Well, I think everyone knows about the problems of the 81st dbad Vodopyanov, who worked from the mainland.

      However, after the relocation, the DBA group flew even more than the Preobrazhensky OG:
      from August 11 to 21, DBA aircraft completed 27 sorties, and naval aviation only 24
  44. +3
    16 August 2023 15: 27
    Naval aviation is a very complex and expensive thing. In the world, less than 10 countries have it, striped, China, Japan, us, a couple of NATO countries, well, India, ...
    The difficulty is not only that the admirals are stupid, politicians ..., I did not find literary ones, but also money. Soviet cars are going down in history, but what do we have? We have something:
    1. Be-200. The platform for the military is obvious. There is no engine. They bring the PD-8 - things will get better.
    2. IL-114. Middle PLS, and scout too. AWACS. Radar-MMS has some developments.
    3. Tu-204. A single board to replace the Tu-142/IL-38. Range of 8000 km or more. In a series. Ramp up.
    4. Su-34. Range 4000 km, plus refueling, plus weapon range. Supersonic if needed. In the series, he has been fighting on the ground for a long time. It will be convincing in tandem with tankers, and in the north. We must build.
    5. Lamprey (Ka-65). There is very little information here, but in 2024 they seem to show it.
    Ensuring seriality leads to lower costs, just do not scatter. Set priorities and move on. We are building it all!
    1. +1
      16 August 2023 19: 51
      It's not easy to "prioritize" things. Someone should order R & D to finalize civilian models, someone - to develop subsystems. Someone must justify and ensure the seriality of the order. And a commander with the rank of colonel will not be able to do this by definition. And everything suits the rest of the military and naval vertical.
    2. 0
      21 August 2023 21: 39
      It is unlikely that the IL-114 can become a full-fledged replacement for the IL-38 (primarily because the IL-38 is almost three times larger), the same can be said about the Tu-204 as a replacement for the Tu-142 (the Tu-142 has a much larger range And he, apparently, can take a large load). It is necessary to produce engines for both the Il-38 and the Be-12 (and now there are Ukrainian engines there, which is not at all good in our current realities), it is necessary to produce engines for the Tu-142 (especially since there is also a Tu-95 , which no one is going to write off). Then our submarine aircraft will still work for more than a dozen years (well, the avionics must be regularly updated, that goes without saying).
  45. +1
    16 August 2023 15: 33
    Perhaps, and even probably, from a technical point of view, the author is right. I will not judge, not an expert. But what is in abundance is maximalism. But a simple question: are we able to do all this now? Probably not. And conceptually we need it now? Not a fact, at least in the list of priorities. Are we positioning ourselves as a maritime superpower? It seems not. And we can quite protect our shores from land. Maybe that's why our fleet is now aimed at short-range tasks (or as the military calls it there). Maybe we don’t need to strive to board aircraft carriers in the world’s oceans, but simply shoot at them from the shore if necessary. Of course, it is better, as they say, to be healthy and rich than poor and sick. And, by the way, do many countries have a decent population for all those dozen points in the classification that the author cited? I think no. So why so water yourself with slop? But of course, the problem cannot be ignored. You just need to realistically present your current tasks and opportunities.
    1. +1
      16 August 2023 17: 53
      Our fleet is now completing the modernization of the cruiser Admiral Nakhimov and the "aircraft carrier" Admiral Kuznetsov. And it costs a lot of money. But there was no money to ensure the defense of the port of Novorossiysk. Priorities.
    2. +6
      16 August 2023 19: 16
      Quote: Berezin
      And conceptually we need it now? Not a fact, at least in the list of priorities.

      Conceptually, our first task is nuclear deterrence. Which is impossible without SSBNs. And their work is impossible without adequate naval aviation.
      Quote: Berezin
      And, by the way, do many countries have a decent population for all those dozen points in the classification that the author cited? I think no.

      Firstly, many countries have a full population at least for some of the points that the author cited. We do not have. Secondly, and this is the most important thing, you should not compare yourself with other countries, you should, as you rightly said:
      Quote: Berezin
      realistically present their current tasks and opportunities.

      and build the Armed Forces so that they can solve these problems.
  46. -2
    16 August 2023 15: 43
    Su24 is not an attack aircraft, it is a front-line bomber. Get it in your head already. I didn't read any further, it was boring.
    1. +1
      18 August 2023 19: 32
      Quote from: lukash66
      Su24 is not an attack aircraft, it is a front-line bomber. Get it in your head already.

      The problem is that in the fleet, Su-24s go specifically to attack air regiments. For example, at the Black Sea Fleet they serve in the 43rd Sevastopol Red Banner Order of Kutuzov, III degree, a separate naval assault aviation regiment.
      Therefore, in the article, the term "attack aircraft" in relation to the Su-24 is taken in quotation marks.
      The most massive attack aircraft is still the Su-24M, which cannot carry anti-ship missiles.
  47. -1
    16 August 2023 17: 57
    We need a revival of the MPA, but what should we take for the base in the near future? And for the near future, apart from the Su-34 glider (the Su-30 with a tandem crew arrangement does not pull on the MRA during long patrols), I don’t see anything. and the main advantage is that it is produced and some possible contenders are not. But a combat radius of about 2000 km is required with a load of 4-5 tons, how to achieve it? I don’t know, probably as one of the measures - the rejection of the titanium capsule and (or) overhead conformal tanks as on the F-16 + (of course) the installation of AL-41 engines
    ...and the S-70 is a great addition.
  48. 0
    16 August 2023 18: 33
    Come on! I almost believed that someone appeared who can write without fantasies ... Ann ... no.)))) Probably the gods of randomness finally allowed me to write a text from which you don’t catch permanent fakes)
    Although the reality seems to be even worse. Since new boards are needed to replace the old equipment that was still on the move. And not only is there no place to produce them (capacities are not rubber), there is actually nothing to produce. From the word at all. Even development has not begun. The same Su-57. For a long time, R & D should have begun to create a deck version. There is nothing to replace the Antonovs. AWACS, RTR, PLO aircraft could possibly be made in the future on the basis of the same MS-21 or even a smaller SSJ-100. I hope the level of development of electronics already allows you to make these aircraft are not the largest in the class. Tankers... Given the pace of production of the IL-76... the turn before the second advance. Marine helicopters - also not even on paper. In general, the picture is sad. All that can be given to MA is some amount of Su-30 or 35. The rest is unrealistic.
  49. -2
    16 August 2023 18: 46
    The future of aviation belongs to unmanned vehicles. Therefore, they must be done. A drone hovering over an area for days is cheaper, more efficient and not so pitiful
    1. 0
      16 August 2023 19: 04
      In fact, no, UAVs are even more expensive to manufacture. One RQ-4 costs $200 million. Very expensive. Of course, he is in the air for 30 hours, and the optics and radar are first-class. And this is not counting the information analysis systems from this UAV. Will mass production of such equipment pull our budget? Not sure
  50. +3
    16 August 2023 18: 54
    I read the article and comments and ... What is the concept? What is the concept? What do you not see in the war? There is no concept, there are needs now and that’s all. Yes, everything. In order to accept at least some concept, it is necessary to change almost everything. The approach itself, the vision itself is what we want. and the whole concept, that's the whole development of both the fleet and the armed forces in general. Who strongly "cheers" read the concept from NSH Gerasimov.
    1. +1
      16 August 2023 19: 30
      Who strongly "cheers" read the concept from NS Gerasimov.

      Those who won’t read strongly “urya”, these hope to sail away on inflatable boats after the fleet of yachts at the first nix from the country. So they care deeply about military aviation
  51. -1
    16 August 2023 18: 58
    Of the twelve types of MA given at the beginning of the article, the most questions are about the "shore-based fighter".
    A number of Su-27s in the mixed units of the DKBF.

    That is, the rest of the fleet feel great under the umbrella of the Aerospace Forces. Who in the Baltic still does not understand that air battles for air superiority, isolation of the combat area, and fighter cover for administrative and industrial centers should be carried out by the Aerospace Forces and not by the Air Force?
    Coastal-based naval fighter aviation should be abolished, resources and tasks should be redistributed, interaction between the Fleet and the Aerospace Forces should be organized.
    1. osp
      -3
      16 August 2023 19: 25
      There are 3 such regiments.
      These are the Saki in the Crimea that fly the Su-30SM (they suffered heavy losses, how many remain unknown);
      This is Kaliningrad that flies on the Su-27P and Su-30SM. About a squadron. Few planes.
      This is Yelizovo in Kamchatka that they fly on the MiG-31. Usually simple, without BM.
      1. 0
        17 August 2023 16: 26
        Quote from osp
        This is Yelizovo in Kamchatka that they fly on the MiG-31. Usually simple, without BM.

        It seems that the Elizovsky regiment was divided in two, allocating a squadron for the KSF.
        And as for the BM... judging by the data on modernization contracts published on bmpd in 2019, the total number of modernized MiG-31s ​​even exceeded the number of combat aircraft.
        According to some reports, there are currently about 120 MiG-31s ​​in the Russian Aerospace Forces, plus about 150 more aircraft at storage bases. According to estimates, about 100 upgraded MiG-31BMs are currently in operation.

        In total, so far, taking into account the MiG-31 aircraft that were upgraded at NAZ Sokol under earlier contracts until 2012, as well as aircraft upgraded at the 514th ARZ in Rzhev, the total number of serially upgraded MiG-31BM / BSM delivered since 2007 in the Russian Armed Forces should reach, according to available information, about 150 units (three of which have already been lost). This number does not include MiG-31DZ fighters converted into MiG-31K carrier aircraft of the Kinzhal missile system (at least 12 aircraft).
        © bmpd
  52. +1
    16 August 2023 19: 31
    A very good and truthful article.
  53. -4
    16 August 2023 20: 29
    Quote: ramzay21
    The author, of course, well done, because he raised the right questions, and this is a bold act. The answers to these questions are obvious, we need a different leader of the country, who will change the current dead people for those who understand what needs to be done and how, even if they are captains of the first rank or a drop, and in relation to the current commanders, he will give the command to the investigators of the military prosecutor's office to work out on their treacherous activities, regardless of titles and merits, as well as the investigators of the Prosecutor General's Office to check the activities of the leaders of the military-industrial complex and persons associated with them. Such investigative teams will very quickly find the crimes of all these Evmenovs and their predecessors and accomplices.
    In addition, the new commanders of the fleets and the commander of the Navy must develop a long-term plan for the development of the Navy for 25-30 years, set clear goals and determine the composition of the fleet of the future based on an analysis of what the fleets of other states will be like and what forces we can counter these fleets. In this regard, one of the most important forces of the Navy should naturally become the MA, which should be revived in 25 years, and the fleet should receive MRA air regiments with their tankers and coastal fighters, as well as anti-submarine patrol aircraft based on the MS-21 or Tu-204 and reconnaissance aircraft, search and rescue, RTR aircraft and much more. After drawing up such a plan, a clear task for the military-industrial complex should be set and a rigid plan should be drawn up with personal responsibility for its implementation.

    But this should be done by the new leaders of the country, the current leader has shown for 23 years that he is not able to do this.

    Who's talking about what, and the lousy one about the bath... Change the leader. Change your head.
  54. 0
    16 August 2023 22: 16
    The problem is not only with planes, but with ships. The ships are just being built, mostly small ones. Airplanes are the weapons of a ship. A simple example with the cruiser Moscow. The weaponry is excellent, it’s old, it was sunk. The required ships are multi-sectional. There will be ships, there will be weapons, including airplanes. Need time.
  55. -2
    17 August 2023 00: 55
    Quote from Escariot
    In fact, no, UAVs are even more expensive to produce. One RQ-4 costs $200 million. Very good

    Now calculate how much such a manned aircraft would cost.
    UAVs are cheaper due to the fact that there is no need to create a pilot safety system, you can hang in a patrol place for tens of hours, and in normal industry you can quickly make up for losses. Try to quickly train a new pilot.
    Actually, the conflict in Ukraine absolutely clearly showed that manned aircraft are all over. Russian aviation is the second largest in the world, but its influence on this conflict is much less than expected. Because it’s a pity for $100 million planes that for some reason are shot down by missiles.
    And there would be 1.000 attack UAVs with the tactical and technical characteristics of World War II aircraft and the enemy would have been buried a long time ago.
    1. +3
      17 August 2023 08: 43
      Quote: certero
      Now calculate how much such a manned aircraft would cost.

      Three times less. Actually, the Global Hawk equipment is a very simplified U-2 equipment.
      Quote: certero
      Actually, the conflict in Ukraine absolutely clearly showed that manned aircraft are all over.

      The conflict in Ukraine has shown, unfortunately, that we have not been able to build effective aviation.
      Quote: certero
      And there would be 1.000 strike UAVs with the performance characteristics of World War II aircraft

      And there would be nothing.
  56. The comment was deleted.
    1. -1
      17 August 2023 06: 54
      The author is right, thank God he doesn’t have all the information, otherwise he would have upset people even more. Aviation in the fleet (according to sailors) is the fifth wheel in the cart. Therefore, this attitude is most likely on a subconscious level, a competitor, because they understand that surface ships are a big target. On the one hand, on the other hand, how will the PLO plane search for boats using buoys? So the efficiency of this thing is zero, the ocean is so big, where are we going to throw the buoys? And this technology requires tens of thousands of buoys. Without breakthrough (new) submarine search technologies, anti-aircraft aircraft will be viewed with skepticism. As for the UAV, the idea is sound, but without touching on everything else, such as communication channels, satellite constellations and other things, the smallest decent engine (moped motors are not offered) is the AI-222-25. Therefore, if there is a motor there is an airplane (any kind), if there is no engine there is no airplane. Therefore, not everything is so simple and unambiguous.
      1. osp
        -4
        17 August 2023 18: 55
        So the combat patrol areas of even American and French SSBNs are not in the zone of possible action of our PLO aviation.
        And they are very well covered by the forces of their fleets, coastal fighter aircraft, and others.

        The British have the North Sea. The French have the Mediterranean.

        That's how our PLO planes look for these submarines there?
        Which can even be covered by aircraft carriers.
    2. 0
      17 August 2023 07: 02
      Quote: abc_alex
      Well, who will fence the line and equipment for modernizing a dozen helicopters? If only there were at least a hundred of them, or better yet two...


      High-tech weapons, including naval ones, must be sold as widely as possible on the world market and initially designed taking into account the needs of foreign buyers. This will provide the necessary volumes of orders for development. Now we need to fight for external sales, which will provide volumes and money for new equipment.
  57. 0
    17 August 2023 18: 12
    TU-16, Gvardeyskoye, hum, day and night, they cut me like sausage in front of me, it’s good that the Oktyabrsky regiment flew away
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  59. +1
    18 August 2023 01: 28
    Article Roman Skomorokhov - an impressive, brave and worthy “requiem” for the Russian Navy and Navy aviation, in particular... Our great naval commanders, starting from the father of the Russian Navy - Peter I - are turning over in their graves and wiping away a stingy man's tear.... The surface fleet of the Far Ocean Zone is what the remnants of the USSR fleet are trying to achieve. There is nothing to keep the AUG, the enemy, in constant tension, “to demonstrate the Naval Flag, (one of the forms of diplomatic protocol) off the coast of the adversary and friends ... That so-called “corvette fleet”, with low autonomy and technical capabilities to withstand the ocean elements, “modest” RT - weapons, and acoustics, weapons for self-defense (air defense, anti-aircraft warfare, electronic warfare) and very mediocre versatility in solving problems on naval theater of operations, very dubious in terms of performance characteristics and reliability, the main power plant (main power plant) - this is, for now, all we hope to “scare the adversary with.” But all “this” looks great for TV and other media, in the form of parades on the Neva and in the vicinity of Kronstadt. One hope is that the nuclear submarine fleet, both “strategists” and “fighters”, will be able to solve a number of tasks of the strategic plan, but without powerful surface and air support (reconnaissance, cover, when moving to patrol or dispersal areas, emergency rescue support and etc.) - solving these problems is a “one way ticket”..... Roman Skomorokhov showed about the so-called private tasks of Navy aviation in sufficient detail, “convexly” and objectively... The naval aviation has the same diseases as the country, the Army and the Navy... Market-capitalist approach, based on illiteracy, the “stupidity” of decision-makers like Yeltsin, Chubais & Ko and the “understanding” that for oil and gas dollars Russia will buy everything, from nails to tanks and helicopter carriers, and in matters of the formation of military - the naval doctrine placed “emphasis” on the fact that we are now in the “friendly family” of capitalist states and nothing and no one threatens us, and protecting the borders is the near sea zone, where the “poor” corvette, with a power plant from CAT, MAN, MTU, Volvo and Cummins, DEUTZ are the “it”... The same goes for naval aviation... We will buy from Lockheed, Leonardo, Saab, Airbus... And “military wisdom” in the form of the voices of honored generals - admirals, designers, engineers and directors of design bureaus, research institutes, military-industrial complex, whose “souls burned” for the future of the Army and Navy - drowned (military wisdom) in a sea of ​​misinformation, lies, money-grubbing, professionalism and outright theft... So we have come to what we have been going to for the last 30 years... And now, by the wave of even a “magic wand” in the hands of the Supreme, this problem cannot be solved... Many issues will have to start “from scratch” - there are no personnel, engineering and design schools have died, entire areas in aircraft engine building, avionics, naval aviation weapons have been “collapsed”, there is no modern element base for the electronic “stuffing” of aircraft and their systems ground support....The personnel policy in the formation of the management level in the aviation industry raises questions and bewilderment (the main “face” of a design bureau, research institute, plant becomes an accountant, a bank employee or someone’s relative...) And without this, a naval aviation reconnaissance aircraft or aircraft searching for and destroying enemy submarines will simply never “take wing”... To make the above more convincing, here is an example from our present... The Yakovlev Design Bureau has created a very successful and reliable aircraft for primary training ("flying desk") of future pilots of the Russian Aerospace Forces - the Yak-152. At the moment, the cadets are “flying” the “oldies” L-39 (Czechoslovakia), which, on average, are already “50”. But the Yak-152 cannot “take wing” due to the power plant (engine) from Germany, which, as you understand, even through “parallel import”, is very problematic to acquire. So our Yak-152 is waiting for a domestic turboprop “replacement” "... The fairy tale is told quickly, but the thing is not done quickly....
  60. +1
    18 August 2023 02: 23
    The article, of course, does not inspire optimism. If such things happen in reality, then the entire senior military leadership should be put on trial. Wherever you go deeper into studying real affairs, there is devastation everywhere. But media heralds do not forget to shout about one of the most powerful armies in the world. On paper, Putin probably has it all wrong...
  61. 0
    18 August 2023 08: 31
    Quote: Lech from Android.
    It looks like the second friend needs serious treatment.

    And it’s as if no one knows anything about this!
  62. 0
    31 August 2023 10: 31
    Everything will work out if...
    And then there are many different and often mutually exclusive, their opposites.
    Are Putin, his entourage, advisers, ministers enemies? Or who?
    If a leader takes a step forward and marks time, or two steps back, is this a strategy?
    If the “owner” of aluminum announces negotiations, i.e. about betrayal, but what about the leader? Silent? So, what kind of development of anything for the state can we talk about? I'm not talking about money, I'm talking about development.
    Therefore, all conversations and complaints will remain as such while some people are cutting money, and others are silent about decisions.
    Prigogine is the truth about little things.
    Everything is much deeper and more serious.
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