"UAV-storm" over naval bases

42
"UAV-storm" over naval bases

To begin with, it is necessary to understand that a surface ship (NK) or a submarine (submarine) (hereinafter we will mainly say - a ship), no matter how trite it may sound, can be in two states - parked in a naval base (Naval Base) or on the high seas. At the same time, it is rare for any fleet the operational voltage coefficient (KOH), that is, the time it is in the naval base, is above 0,5. This means that more than half of the ships will always be in bases. And what could be more defenseless than ships and submarines moored?

This means that they are all extremely attractive targets for attack.



The importance and necessity of destroying enemy ships and submarines stationed in bases, we have already considered in the article. "Goals and objectives of the Russian Navy: destroy half of the enemy's fleet". In the comments to that article, statements were made, such as - "while we destroy enemy ships in the base, our sailors will die in an unequal battle with the enemy fleet attacking our Navy (Navy)."

But, allow me, let's separate the flies from the cutlets. Our fleet is now hardly capable of fighting the enemy on equal terms far from its shores. Moreover, it can be assumed that the closer the enemy fleet is to our shores, the greater the threat it will be exposed to. Initially, small missile ships (RTOs) and coastal aviation, then coastal missile systems (BRK), and then it will come to minefields. It’s enough for us to simply “not look for trouble”, that is, not to send ships and submarines to the open sea-ocean or to foreign shores, but to organize the defense of coastal waters, relying on continental forces. Of course, this is not good, this is a loss of initiative, but this is also an objective reality.

It can be assumed that this rule will work for all the fleets of the world, even for the US Navy, to fight a serious enemy - it’s not for them to shoot Yugoslavia with Tomahawks from a distance. The Japanese fleet off the coast of China or Russia, the US Navy off the coast of China or Russia, the Chinese fleet off the coast of the United States - all of them will face an unenviable fate (we will not talk about the Russian Navy off foreign coasts for obvious reasons).


The launch of the Tomahawk cruise missile from an American ship in the Adriatic on March 31, 1999 - then they were not in danger, they worked in "greenhouse" conditions

At the same time, the destruction of half of the enemy fleet, the destruction of its ships located at the berths, and the infrastructure of the naval base - this is the destruction of half of the enemy fleet and the possibility of repairing the rest, again, no matter how trite it may sound. At the current pace of shipbuilding, he will not be able to make up for such losses soon - this is not Nazi Germany during the Second World War (WWII), which produced up to 40 submarines per month, and not the United States of the same period, which only Liberty-type cargo ships in During WWII, 2 units were built, and now a fleet of 751 warships cannot be scraped together.

Of course, you can also attack the enemy’s naval base in the “classic” way - by hitting long-range high-precision cruise and anti-ship missiles, but we have already considered this option in the above material. Now let's talk about what can be done with the help of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) - long-range kamikazes of the Geran-2 type, which have proven themselves so well during the Russian Special Military Operation (SVO) in Ukraine.

"UAV Storm"


That's what it was called material, which considered the possibility of mass production of kamikaze UAVs of the Geranium-2 type - in quantities of up to a million units per year, this will seem unrealistic to some, well, well, story will show what is real and what is not.

However, if we are talking about the destruction of surface ships and submarines stationed in the naval base, then such a number will not be needed. One hundred kamikaze UAVs of the Geran-2 type for one ship, and then in multiples: a thousand for ten NK and submarines, two thousand for twenty, and so on. The more ships, the better, the more likely it is that mistakes will be made in the general confusion and confusion, that someone will hit on their own - sometimes panic can do more harm than the attack itself.


Ships in the naval base are an exceptionally attractive target for attack.

Three waves of kamikaze UAVs, three types of warheads (warheads) - high-explosive fragmentation (HE), cumulative and incendiary.

First wave: kamikaze UAV with HE warheads - some will be shot down or fly past, some will not cause much harm, but some will inflict limited damage to ships that will not sink it, but may well make it impossible to defend itself, for example, destroying or damaging radar stations ( radar).

The second wave: kamikaze UAVs with cumulative warheads - damage to interiors, fires inside ships, possibly detonation of ammunition.

The third wave: kamikaze UAVs with incendiary warheads, should complete what they started, cause maximum fires using phosphorus, thermite mixtures, which are most difficult to extinguish.


Some foreign sources claim that the production of UAVs of the Geran-2 type has already been localized in Russia

This is just an example, in reality, the outfit of the kamikaze UAV and their warheads can be completely different. And the concept of “wave” here can be quite arbitrary - kamikaze UAVs with different types of warheads can go in the “same formation”.

Will the enemy be able to repel such a blow?

Unlikely. The existing anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) and anti-aircraft artillery systems (ZAK) will not cope with such a wave - stupidly due to a lack of ammunition. Protective curtains and decoys for kamikaze UAVs attacking by coordinates do not matter.

There is hope for electronic warfare (EW), but will it come true? During one of the terrorist attacks carried out on 30.05.2023/XNUMX/XNUMX by Ukrainian kamikaze UAVs in Moscow and the Moscow region, five UAVs were shot down by air defense systems, and only three were able to “land” electronic warfare, that is, even such a handicraft, which is used by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, can be destroyed by EW alone fails, the work of the air defense system is required. There is no data at all about any highly effective use of electronic warfare against the Russian Geraniums.

In addition, any electronic warfare means do not create an "impenetrable wall", with a massive strike, kamikaze UAVs can go from different directions, at different heights: there will be electronic warfare equipment to jam the coordinate receiver at low altitudes - you can climb higher and vice versa.

The speed of the kamikaze UAV is low, therefore, having discovered the fact of the attack, the defender can try to move the ships, but even this may not save him. It's all about the rapidly developing technologies of satellite communications. Already, not only smartphones, but even smart watches capable of receiving and transmitting text messages via satellites have appeared on sale.

The cost of a satellite communication module capable of receiving or receiving target coordinates in near real time will cost (or already cost) less than a hundred US dollars. Moreover, the American company Lynk has developed a technology for communication between ordinary mobile phones and special satellite base stations, without the need to install additional modems.

Thus, the presence within the reach of any reconnaissance means capable of tracking a change in the location of ships or submarines - reconnaissance satellites, promising stratospheric UAVs, high-altitude Global Hawk UAVs or autonomous underwater gliders, will allow timely issuance of updated target coordinates by UAV-kamikaze.


Communication with a satellite in a smart watch - what will happen in 5-10 years?

Potentially, in-flight retargeting can provide kamikaze UAVs with the ability to attack even moving targets by continuously updating target coordinates (a preemption algorithm can also be implemented to compensate for command transmission delays), but this is rather an exception for the tactics of using inexpensive, promising kamikaze UAVs equipped with low-speed means connections.

And, of course, it is quite possible to complete the attack of a kamikaze UAV with cruise and anti-ship missiles as part of a single, time-coordinated strike. Damaged ships with spent SAM ammunition will no longer be able to repel their strike. A scorched place will remain from the naval base.

Conclusions


Each military conflict not only makes it possible to implement new concepts and give life to promising developments, but also to form dangerous delusions. For example, the lack of air defense of terrorists in Syria created the illusion that the enemy can be dealt with with free-falling bombs - there is no need to buy and spend expensive precision-guided munitions, and the war in Nagorno-Karabakh created the image of the "invincible Bayraktar".

All these illusions were quickly dispelled during the NWO, but we may well have new ones. For example, if Russian air defense can more or less successfully repel attacks by long-range Ukrainian UAVs, then it may seem that they do not pose a particular threat to us - it is enough to “slightly” increase the number of air defense systems and everything will be in order. Or if the RF Armed Forces can timely destroy the production of crewless boats (BEK) - kamikaze in Ukraine and stop their supply by Western countries, then there may be a misunderstanding of the degree of threat that they may pose in the future. In this case, when fighting with another, stronger opponent who made the right conclusions based on the results of the SVO, you will have to pay dearly for insight.

As mentioned earlier, at present, not a single surface ship of any fleet in the world is adapted to repel attacks by a large number of BEC-kamikazes. The existing concepts for the construction of surface ships are hopelessly outdated and do not meet not only the challenges of the future, but also the present. All of them are just targets, doomed to stay away from real hostilities..

But the fact that surface ships are vulnerable is not so bad - surface ships and submarines in bases are much more vulnerable. The range of weapons with which they can be attacked and destroyed will only expand over time, both quantitatively and qualitatively. At the same time, ships locked in bases will be limited in the use of their weapons due to the danger of "friendly fire", which can do more harm than the actions of the attacker.

All this will require a change in approaches to increasing the security of both surface ships and submarines themselves, and the naval bases where they are located.
42 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. 0
    15 August 2023 04: 37
    Thanks to the author, as always a useful and relevant foresight forecast.

    Conclusions, in the line of my assumptions, that the Falcons too (if the Ukrainians have time to finish their studies),
    they will aim not so much at land targets as at coastal and sea targets.

    As a way to expand the use of electronic warfare,
    you can think about cheap airships, balloons - in the area of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbArmyansk and Evpatoria,
    if you solve the problem of their stability in the air flow.

    1. 0
      15 August 2023 22: 16
      Anchor the balls, in the form of a thin cable to the ground.
      And from a height of 10÷14 km you can see a lot. And business is a penny!
      1. 0
        16 August 2023 08: 34
        With all due respect to colleagues, Mitrofanov's essay is interpreted literally - a blow to the Fleets of the probable Main enemy ++.

        But Mitrofanov, the cunning one, metaphorically presented an attack on the Russian Navy - that's the problem!

        The essence of his article is simple - quantity means a new quality, and there are no supposed methods of dealing with this new quality. Who said that the Armed Forces of Ukraine do not have the number of drones - kamikaze, air or sea ... capable of overloading the confrontation systems ... and reports on the defeat of "assembly sites" cannot be considered comforting in any sense ...

        Slightly off-topic, today there are photos of naval drones of the Armed Forces of Ukraine blown up under the Krymsky Bridge. These are not those gliders with explosives, but mini-barges with massive charges under 500 kg ...

        According to the head of the SBU, the Sea Baby drones are the result of many months of development that began immediately after the invasion.
      2. 0
        17 August 2023 12: 43
        This is how they report to the president, this is a vivid example of what Sunflower is, how it can and should be used to your advantage," the designer emphasized. According to him, the crew on duty at the station and members of the commission with the help of Sunflower saw all the preparations to the exercises and their active phase: grouping and regrouping of ships, aviation flights, preparation and landing of troops.

        We sat all day, like in a movie, and watched events unfold. It is no exaggeration to say that we have seen these teachings in a format that no other medium can provide. We saw the whole picture with one tool: how helicopters flew from ship to ship, landings, maneuvers of ships and aircraft in real time
  2. +6
    15 August 2023 05: 15
    It would be nice to develop Geranium traps ... the purpose of which is to divert air defense strikes ... with good maneuverability and protection against electronic warfare.
    Or put devices on Geranium that direct this device to air defense radars with the highest power, cutting off false radio signals.
    In general, the prospects for such UAVs are quite interesting.
  3. Eug
    +5
    15 August 2023 05: 15
    The bases of the Navy (Navy) are usually located quite "deep" in the rear, and it will be very difficult to ensure the massive use of far-flying UAVs against them. As for me, it would be nice to calculate the effectiveness of the "delivery" of a kilogram of explosives to the Kyrgyz Republic, BRMD and other means, of course, taking into account the probabilities. As for me, the effectiveness of UAVs will only increase if they are used in conjunction with "traditional" weapons. For some reason, the author does not talk about this in the article ... and the best defense is not to let the enemy get closer ..... km. to their naval forces.
    1. -3
      15 August 2023 06: 00
      Quote: Eug
      Naval bases (Navy) are usually located quite "deep" in the rear

      But no further than the sea or the ocean...
      Did you know that ships put out to sea when a storm approaches? If the Poseidon can organize a tidal wave up to 100 m high, then hardly anyone can take refuge in a quiet bay ...
      And the fly swatter was specially made large enough so as not to hit the flies with pinpoint blows on the liver and head ...
      Quote: Eug
      and the best defense is not to let the enemy get closer ..... km. to their naval forces.

      The Tu-160 has the ability to defeat the "Dagger" (what kind of warhead equipment will be there - hell knows) at 3000 km, and the "Sarmat" can fly in "out of nowhere" ...
      1. +7
        15 August 2023 07: 52
        If Poseidon can organize a tidal wave up to 100 m high

        He will not be able to create such a wave, the yao explosion goes up in a column, creates splashes 100 m high, but it does not create a tidal wave.
        1. +4
          15 August 2023 09: 15
          Dust rises upward in a column during a ground explosion, while the shock wave propagates along the surface of the earth. As for underwater explosions, there were few of them, and there were no large power ones at all. What will be the consequences of mathematical modeling, but its results were not brought to the general public, so what will happen as a result of the explosion of Poseidon, we can only guess.
          1. +2
            15 August 2023 21: 12
            Quote: Sergey Valov
            As for underwater explosions, then

            you can see a picture with a simulation of an underwater nuclear explosion

            However, the picture is crafty: there is no accounting for the reflected SW from the ground!
            But it is she who creates the water shaft of the tidal wave ...
            So, "anything is possible, sir!" (With)
            AHA.
  4. 0
    15 August 2023 05: 17
    surface ships and submarines in bases are much more vulnerable

    our enemy is Ukraine, it has a small fleet (patrol boats, etc.), it’s too early to “dream” about other opponents, but you need to protect your own fleet both in the port (mesh barriers) and on the march (here you need to think about automate the search and destruction of naval UAVs, and not shoot at a visual sight from machine guns)
  5. -1
    15 August 2023 05: 18
    Ships in the naval base are an exceptionally attractive target for attack...

    ... "Poseidon" or some other "Sarmat".
    The meaning of the attack of this "meeting" of UAVs?
    And the creation of UAV-carrier ships is a tempting prospect. And the group itself can be a powerful deterrent...for example, in the area of ​​South West Africa...
  6. +5
    15 August 2023 05: 32
    Of course, you can also attack the enemy’s naval base in the “classic” way - by hitting long-range high-precision cruise and anti-ship missiles, but we have already considered this option in the above material. Now let's talk about what can be done with the help of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) - long-range kamikazes of the Geran-2 type, which have proven themselves so well during the Russian Special Military Operation (SVO) in Ukraine.

    Apparently, I missed the discussion of attacking the enemy’s naval base with a KR strike. However, if they began to discuss the Japanese and American fleets, then we are talking about the Pacific Ocean and the military bases of a potential enemy on its coast. For example, the distance in a straight line from Yuzhno-Kurilsk to Ominato (if I'm not mistaken is the northernmost naval base on the Japanese islands) is about 550 km, Vladivostok - Maizuru (900 km). The American naval bases in Pearl Harbor, San Diego, Kitsap (Bangor), Dutch Harbor (Coast Guard parking lot) are much further than 1000 - 2000 km (if I'm not mistaken, the declared range of the Geranium-2 UAV).
    In any case, something (ships and auxiliary vessels) will have to be launched into the ocean to launch the UAV, at a considerable distance from their coastal cover facilities.
    what It seems to me that if it comes to strikes on the naval bases of the United States and Japan, then I am sure that neither they nor we will stop at UAVs in the choice of strike weapons, a nuclear weapons strike is very likely ...
    1. +6
      15 August 2023 08: 40
      if it comes to strikes on the naval bases of the United States and Japan, then I am sure that neither they nor we will stop at UAVs in the choice of strike weapons, an SNW strike is very likely ...

      This is the most correct one. Exactly, if we are talking about the destruction of the fleet in the base, then about no UAVs like Geraniums, etc. there will be no speech. Only - special ammunition, and there is no fleet and base ...
  7. +2
    15 August 2023 06: 22
    I’ll say stupidity, but in compressed, limited conditions, city buildings, plant benches on the roofs, even hunters, because no one canceled the shooter and so far all these electronic warfare ... out of me at one time, for some six months, they made quite a good deal for themselves arrow (running boar / deer) 1st adult for a boy at 15 years old. And in general, there are no mass shooting schools, shooting ranges now, but is DOSAAF all?
  8. +10
    15 August 2023 07: 43
    However, if we are talking about the destruction of surface ships and submarines stationed in the naval base, then such a number will not be needed. One hundred kamikaze UAVs of the Geran-2 type for one ship, and then in multiples: a thousand for ten NK and submarines, two thousand for twenty, and so on.

    Another portion of Mitrofanovshchina.
    It would be good for the author, for starters, to buy an atlas, a ruler, compasses and a set of felt-tip pens. Then draw on the map flight routes to the main bases, for example, Royal Navy - Clyde, Davenport, Portsmouth, from the point of Russia closest to them in the Kaliningrad region. Then calculate the distance to find out what
    UAV-kamikaze type "Geran-2"
    they simply will not be reached due to the fact that they do not fly at such a distance.
    This is not to mention the fact that the entire route of more than one and a half thousand kilometers passes over the territory of NATO countries. Therefore, even if we assume that the flight range is enough, the author needs to calculate how much UAV-kamikaze it must be launched so that at least some part of its "storm" reaches the bases.
    Maybe this will somehow stop the unrestrained flight of the author's imagination.
    By the way, the article does not say where the author is going to launch his "storms" at the naval bases of other potential opponents.
    1. +1
      15 August 2023 17: 53
      I agree, but the author does not realistically consider another equally important aspect: the infliction of a massive strike by the enemy on our bases and the Navy ...
    2. +5
      15 August 2023 21: 42
      Quote from Frettaskyrandi
      Another portion of Mitrofanovshchina.

      But there is something to talk about! And first of all, about the mistakes in the article:
      1. The author famously distributed the ships across the naval base and water areas ... forgetting that some of the ships could be. in repair and modernization outside the naval base ... Again, on the routes of the inter-theatre maneuver along the "river-sea" system by inland navigation channels ...
      2. The author somehow sharply limited the zone of operations of ship forces to his coastal areas, excluding them off the coast of the adversary. And this is a profound delusion! Well, where else, except not at the communication nodes (at the entrances to ports and naval bases, divisions of the FVK, etc.) to put active MZM submarines? And the mines have now become very smart: with standby modes, urgency and multiplicity devices, telecontrol and remote bringing into combat condition, with avionics aimed at undermining a certain type (class) of ships, and sometimes even according to the g / a signature of a particular ship the enemy ... Again, delivering a missile strike by the KRBD / RCC from an area unexpected for the enemy near his terrorist waters, etc.
      3. UAVs of the GERAN-2 type simply won’t pull against serious air defense of the naval base ... Low speed, a bunch of unmasking factors, a long time spent in the zone of fire - all this casts doubt on the success of the "Armenian raid on the water pump"! Especially from the sea ... From land, along the folds of the terrain ... well, it’s still possible somehow ... But only up to the first post of the NIS or the DVO radar ...
      4. About the impact of the BEC-kamikaze. The author's mistake is that he takes a "single ship" without taking into account the entire security and defense system of the naval base: starting with patrol boats, helicopters, surface radars, coastal posts of NIS, etc. Plus bono-network barriers, fire fighting service, etc., as well as firepower for coastal defense ... Everything that does not respond to the request "friend or foe" is destroyed without any sentiment!
      5. Or can the author answer a simple question: - how does the PKO (as an integral part of the NK universal defense) differ from the same reflection of a BEC-kamikaze attack in the sea ???
      That's it! ("You don't need to steal anything: Everything has been stolen before us!" (c) )))
      AHA.
  9. +1
    15 August 2023 11: 16
    "I'll say stupidity, but in compressed, limited conditions, city buildings, plant benches on the roofs" They cannot turn 360 degrees around the clock. VISUALLY detect and engage targets. They must be warned in a timely manner (Wake up), i.e. we need means of detecting small targets in urban environments, and this is a problem! Therefore, it is necessary to detect and hit up to urban areas, or better, when crossing a certain border.
  10. +5
    15 August 2023 11: 28
    The article is baby talk and a circle of "young pioneers" to boot. lol
    I understand that for couch strategists, who are the majority among commentators, and why be silent, the authors of articles too, shock UAVs are no longer a wunderwaffe, but a fetish.
    However, there are also people who are able to think critically here, so let's figure it out.
    So, what is this very Geranium UAV?
    If we discard the names and terminology, then this is nothing more than a very low-speed cruise missile with a very weak warhead. Its only advantage is the price, or rather the cost. "Geranium" is much cheaper than any of the cruise missiles.
    In a word, a kind of cruise missile for the poor.
    I just want to repeat the lines from the unforgettable advertisement - if the result is the same, why pay more?
    The only thing is that the result is far from the same. All the Geranium is good for is to hit static, unprotected, including air defense objects like transformer boxes.
    It is possible to break through the air defense with this pepelats only if it is absent, or focality without properly built lines, which is almost equal to the absence.
    But, excuse me, counting on the fact that the VFM bases will not be covered by air defense is naivety and stupidity. Even the armies commanded by "ceremonial-biathlon" defense ministers do not allow themselves such a thing.
    And, returning to the previous thought, the developers of the same hypersonic missiles are by no means fools and spenders of the military budget. They are well aware that one of the most important characteristics of any weapon is the reaction time. In this case, it will be the time from the decision to launch the missile until the target is hit. And what is the reaction time of "Geranium" in simple words and can not be said. And if, at the same time, we take into account that this UAV does not even fly over the sea below 60 meters, then there are definitely no censorship words left about those who are thinking of pushing through air defense with it.

    Well, I didn’t want to, but I’ll have to, the author painfully got it with his naivety bordering on idiocy.
    Drawing spherical horses in a vacuum, where "thousands" of UAVs push through air defense and destroy the enemy fleet at the base, is great, especially when, despite your age, you think like a "pioneer". However, the reality is completely different, therefore a number of questions immediately to the author:
    1. Returning to reality, since the author adorned his opus with a photo depicting the Norfolk naval base, then let him tell you what outfit of forces and means will be required to implement his plan? Namely, how many UAVs themselves to overload the air defense of the base and ships so that the part that breaks through completes the combat mission, how many ships of carriers, cover, support, and so on?
    2. What are the lines of deployment of own forces, the lines of launch? How will the control of such a mass of UAVs be organized?
    3. A strike on a naval base, this is already a strategic strike to which a nuclear response will follow, in which place of the strategy is he going to enter an attack on a potential enemy through firecrackers? Yes, it is an attack, because such an attack is possible only before the start of hostilities and the declaration of war.
    4. Why does the author consider the enemy a fool, and his intelligence blind, believing that he will not notice either the preparation of his opponent for such a war, or the advancement and deployment of strike groups, or the slow-flying mass of the UAV itself and will not take appropriate measures?
    5. How many similar forces will he need to destroy the entire enemy fleet, given that he has far from one base, and ships are not always at the pier, even in peacetime?
    1. +3
      15 August 2023 12: 24
      Why does the author consider the enemy a fool, and his intelligence blind, believing that he will not notice either the preparation of his opponent for such a war, or the advancement and deployment of strike groups, or the very slowly flying mass of UAVs and will not take appropriate measures?

      So this is the foundation of the author's strategic plans. The absence of at least one of these factors destroys the entire strategy in the bud.
      1. +1
        15 August 2023 13: 19

        So this is the foundation of the author's strategic plans. The absence of at least one of these factors destroys the entire strategy in the bud.


        It was the case when I was on the AVIA.RU forum (until I ran away from there due to the dominance of shkoloty), one of the young men, with an ardent and burning look, who mastered the Blanik glider at the flying club with his father’s money, got everyone with the idea of ​​​​massive use of these gliders in combat , and in a partisan manner. Based in the forest, hiding from the enemy.
        I won't be surprised if his ideas will appear here soon.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. +1
          15 August 2023 16: 54
          mastered the "blahnik" glider at the flying club

          A very common glider around the world.

          The Americans at the Air Force Academy use these gliders in the LET TG-10 modification for basic pilot training.

          1. 0
            15 August 2023 18: 33
            The Americans at the Air Force Academy use these gliders in the LET TG-10 modification for basic pilot training.


            But not combat use. In general, a glider for training military pilots is a very controversial device.
        3. 0
          15 August 2023 19: 22
          Once I tried to learn to fly on it, but it did not grow together. Cool device. It flies for a long time.
    2. -2
      15 August 2023 19: 26
      Geraniums are not controlled. He is given coordinates and is on his way. They fly 1000-1500 km. so the warrant doesn't have to come close, and they can be carried by a civilian tanker. And this is the author's assumption for "different" cases. And about the air defense breakthrough, remember the results of the "layered" air defense of the Saudis and the attack by the Shaheeds from Yemen. Well, about a nuclear strike, not a fact.
      1. -1
        16 August 2023 11: 11
        Geraniums are not controlled. He is given coordinates and is on his way. They fly 1000-1500 km. so the warrant doesn't have to come close, and they can be carried by a civilian tanker. And this is the author's assumption for "different" cases. And about the air defense breakthrough, remember the results of the "layered" air defense of the Saudis and the attack by the Shaheeds from Yemen. Well, about a nuclear strike, not a fact.


        No need to control a single UAV. And for overloading air defense, the group must be large and compact. Here you can’t do without control, otherwise they will beat each other themselves.
        Well, 1000-1500 km is 5-8 hours of flight. Do you think the enemy will either not notice such a massive attack, or will he sit and pick his nose all this time? lol
        1. -1
          16 August 2023 16: 40
          The Houthis sent without any control and coped. They can fly on different trajectories and arrive at the same time.
    3. -5
      16 August 2023 00: 58
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      The article is baby talk and a circle of "young pioneers" to boot.

      You haven't gone far
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      However, there are also people who are able to think critically here, so let's figure it out.

      Well, let's at least think about whether we can organize this at all and what we will get at least theoretically.
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      So, what is this very Geranium UAV?
      If we discard the names and terminology, then this is nothing more than a very low-speed cruise missile with a very weak warhead.

      Firstly, a 40gk wave is enough to damage any equipment not hidden inside the ship, secondly, warheads can be made not only high-explosive, and thirdly, why did you get to the picture? The article simply describes the tactics of use and Geranium-2 is chosen as an exhibit. Nobody bothers to make other UAVs with higher characteristics.
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      Its only advantage is the price, or rather the cost. "Geranium" is much cheaper than any of the cruise missiles. In a word, a kind of cruise missile for the poor.

      The rocket is not for the poor))) The economy wins the war, if anything))) Even the United States, despite all its capabilities and Wishlist, is forced to restrain its soldiers in the desire to get all the coolest and more.
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      The only thing is that the result is far from the same. All the Geranium is good for is to hit static, unprotected, including air defense objects like transformer boxes.

      It's just that the article says about this if you read it))) The defeat of stationary objects at given coordinates. Yes, there the author fantasized a little further, but nevertheless, the UAV will cope with such a task.
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      And what is the reaction time of "Geranium" in simple words and can not be said. And if, at the same time, we take into account that this UAV does not even fly over the sea below 60 meters, then there are definitely no censorship words left about those who are thinking of pushing through air defense with it.

      What are you talking about right now? it looks like they reported))) What should geranium have a reaction to?))) And 60 meters for crafts and sticks and "plywood" is completely nothing))) And who told you that it can't be lowered in the future?
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      1. Returning to reality, since the author adorned his opus with a photo depicting the Norfolk naval base, then let him tell you what outfit of forces and means will be required to implement his plan? Namely, how many UAVs themselves to overload the air defense of the base and ships so that the part that breaks through completes the combat mission, how many ships of carriers, cover, support, and so on?

      Well, let's get back to reality and not to the world of unicorns and pink ponies. Even a couple of hundred of such rumblers that arrived in a jamb will arrange "torn years" for air defense officers, even if a specific Norfolk base. What is in the photo is sheds, which are not active at all for the most part, and even air defense and them are purely nominal SS levels. B, the entire load will fall on the ground air defense, and at the moment they have ... somehow not a lot with systems that work well for such targets with adequate cost. Not a patriot drives, but not always ... yes. The main blow will be taken by the security of the base in the person of the Berks, how many of them there will be HZ, but obviously not many. They have great opportunities, they do not depend on the channel, but the BC is also not infinite. And yes, under the cover of a UAV, something more serious can come up. About what the author also wrote. And that is how the Patriots' attack in Kyiv was organized. So either you are behind the times or a pioneer))) Let them all be shot down, but exchanging cheap and fast-to-produce drones for expensive air defense missiles is a very good exchange.
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      how many carrier ships, cover, support, and so on?
      2. What are the lines of deployment of own forces, the lines of launch? How will the control of such a mass of UAVs be organized?

      Too lazy to think? Take a circle, a map and draw an arc from Norfolk at a distance of 1000 km. Here's a milestone + - a couple of hundred kilometers. How many ships - one or two tubs for containers. Cover? you can remove one ship or nuclear submarine purely crew, and tubs to the bottom. Control? What are you talking about? They fly along the coordinates - they launched it and forgot it.
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      3. A strike on a naval base, this is already a strategic strike to which a nuclear response will follow, in which place of the strategy is he going to enter an attack on a potential enemy through firecrackers? Yes, it is an attack, because such an attack is possible only before the start of hostilities and the declaration of war.

      Oh, and how no one except you thought about it ... shkolota alone))) or not? Something after a bunch of strikes on the Navy Bases at the World Cup and even, horror, on Engels - where for a minute one of the components of the nuclear triad is located. In response... NOTHING! They didn't even lift the lids.
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      4. Why does the author consider the enemy a fool, and his intelligence blind, believing that he will not notice either the preparation of his opponent for such a war, or the advancement and deployment of strike groups, or the slow-flying mass of the UAV itself and will not take appropriate measures?

      Because the author is aware that everyone is preparing and everyone knows about it. You obviously don't read the news. Look, the Poles on the border with Belarus are creating a strike force, so what? Everyone pretends that this is how it should be and menacingly puff out their cheeks.
      Quote: vovochkarzhevsky
      5. How many similar forces will he need to destroy the entire enemy fleet, given that he has far from one base, and ships are not always at the pier, even in peacetime?

      Your fantasies are your problems. Poke where it is indicated that in this way it is necessary to destroy the entire fleet? This method of attack can be used together with other means and on different bases if enough static objects accumulate there. Ships stand at the pier, suddenly, as if not MOST of their "life" is so note to you. What happens to those who don't? An example is before your eyes. very illustrative example.

      Well, in the end? Is it really possible to organize such an attack in case of NECESSITY, and not because someone suddenly wants to, what do you think? Really. Will there be a surplus? Will. The defense always spends more than the attacking side. And if something sinks there ... so generally beauty. And press the red button. Do you think there and we do not understand that after this nothing can be canceled? They understand perfectly. But they also understand the law of force. It is always easier to negotiate from a position of strength. I listen to you more attentively and make concessions more willingly.
      1. 0
        16 August 2023 11: 44

        You haven't gone far


        Compared to you and the author, it’s still far away, tea is not a couch strategist like you. Yes

        Well, let's at least think about whether we can organize this at all and what we will get at least theoretically.


        Already done, take off the handbrake.


        Firstly, a 40gk wave is enough to damage any equipment not hidden inside the ship, secondly, warheads can be made not only high-explosive, and thirdly, why did you get to the picture? The article simply describes the tactics of use and Geranium-2 is chosen as an exhibit. Nobody bothers to make other UAVs with higher characteristics.


        Firstly, 40 kg is not only negligible against targets of this class, and most importantly, they still need to be conveyed by this rattle.
        Second, read first.
        Thirdly, you can take another base. There will also be no walk-through.
        Fourthly, the "geranium" has only one tactic, the defeat of unprotected infrastructure.
        Fifth, other UAVs, cruise and ballistic missiles have already been made. Just right for such purposes.

        Well, let's get back to reality and not to the world of unicorns and pink ponies. Even a couple of hundred of such rumblers that arrived in a jamb will arrange "torn years" for air defense officers, even if a specific Norfolk base. What is in the photo is sheds, which are not active at all for the most part, and even air defense and them are purely nominal SS levels. B, the entire load will fall on the ground air defense, and at the moment they have ... somehow not a lot with systems that work well for such targets with adequate cost. Not a patriot drives, but not always ... yes. The main blow will be taken by the security of the base in the person of the Berks, how many of them there will be HZ, but obviously not many. They have great opportunities, they do not depend on the channel, but the BC is also not infinite. And yes, under the cover of a UAV, something more serious can come up. About what the author also wrote. And that is how the Patriots' attack in Kyiv was organized. So either you are behind the times or a pioneer))) Let them all be shot down, but exchanging cheap and fast-to-produce drones for expensive air defense missiles is a very good exchange.


        Just in the country of pink ponies from reality you are calling. Yes
        Is it really not smart enough to understand that the troughs with these UAVs will be sunk even when moving to the starting line? Or do you not know that there is intelligence and it is simply impossible to put forward such an outfit of forces covertly?
        In addition, if the launch takes place, then in 5-8 hours of flight time, this entire flock will be destroyed.
        In addition, the stock of MZA shells is much larger to destroy such light targets.
        In addition, there is no need to compare the fighting of the poor and parade armies.


        Too lazy to think? Take a circle, a map and draw an arc from Norfolk at a distance of 1000 km. Here's a milestone + - a couple of hundred kilometers. How many ships - one or two tubs for containers. Cover? you can remove one ship or nuclear submarine purely crew, and tubs to the bottom. Control? What are you talking about? They fly along the coordinates - they launched it and forgot it.


        Couldn't think of anything more stupid? Although even this is the bottom. laughing

        How many UAVs will you cram into 1-2 tubs? For a mosquito bite? And what will you do when, even before reaching the line, they will stop you and drop off an inspection team? Again, in your strategy, the enemy must be a fool?

        Oh, and how no one except you thought about it ... shkolota alone))) or not? Something after a bunch of strikes on the Navy Bases at the World Cup and even, horror, on Engels - where for a minute one of the components of the nuclear triad is located. In response... NOTHING! They didn't even lift the lids.


        Do you think in the USA the same terpils as we have? Naive delusion, remember Japan.

        Because the author is aware that everyone is preparing and everyone knows about it. You obviously don't read the news. Look, the Poles on the border with Belarus are creating a strike force, so what? Everyone pretends that this is how it should be and menacingly puff out their cheeks.


        Do not equate NWO and plans to attack the United States.


        Your fantasies are your problems. Poke where it is indicated that in this way it is necessary to destroy the entire fleet? This method of attack can be used together with other means and on different bases if enough static objects accumulate there. Ships stand at the pier, suddenly, as if not MOST of their "life" is so note to you. What happens to those who don't? An example is before your eyes. very illustrative example.


        You have fantasies, young man. But the reality is different. If a strategic advantage is not obtained as a result of the first strike against superior enemy forces, then the war is lost.
        Everything else is just your wet dreams.

        Well, in the end? Is it really possible to organize such an attack in case of NECESSITY, and not because someone suddenly wants to, what do you think? Really. Will there be a surplus? Will. The defense always spends more than the attacking side. And if something sinks there ... so generally beauty. And press the red button. Do you think there and we do not understand that after this nothing can be canceled? They understand perfectly. But they also understand the law of force. It is always easier to negotiate from a position of strength. I listen to you more attentively and make concessions more willingly.


        Does the defense always spend more than the attacking side? The question is, who did I waste time on? Again metal beads.
    4. -3
      16 August 2023 05: 14
      Why does the author consider the enemy a fool, and his intelligence blind, believing that he will not notice either the preparation of his opponent for such a war, or the advancement and deployment of strike groups, or the very slowly flying mass of UAVs and will not take appropriate measures?

      From different directions, at different speeds and flight altitudes, maneuvering, launching from submarines, ships and from land, tricks .... It will be difficult to fight back from such a mixture.
  11. +1
    15 August 2023 13: 16
    The concept that the fleet is 50% in its ports and is vulnerable there is not new. We recall the same attack on Pearl Harbor or the raid on Scappa Flow, they all set themselves this task. But they also showed the problem of destroying the fleet in the bases. Bases are always heavily guarded. And after the first successful attack, subsequent attacks sharply lose their effectiveness. As a result, the attacks should be one-time. But since the naval base is large, and the ships are quite durable, guaranteed damage to most of the ships and infrastructure can only be achieved with a nuclear warhead. And here is the problem - it is IMPOSSIBLE to use nuclear weapons. Since this automatically gives the right to use it to the enemy. As a result, if someone decides to use a nuclear warhead, then he will thereby start a nuclear war.
    As a result, you need to limit yourself to classic weapons. But to sink a few large ships, you need a LOT of explosives.
    And here is the second problem. If you use a weapon that alone carries a large explosive charge (like cruise missiles and anti-ship missiles), then hitting one such missile will already disable the ship for several years. But it is also easier to shoot down such a rocket. And if you use a lot of dispersed explosives (as, for example, the author considers using a lot of UAVs), then it is difficult to bring down such a cloud. But the damage will mainly be inflicted on the outer part of the hull. It is difficult for such UAVs to penetrate the body deep enough to damage the power structure itself. As a result, the ship is "plucked" seriously, but such damage can be quickly restored in a few months (well, maybe 1 year) of repair.

    As a result, before discussing the need to prepare for the destruction of the enemy fleet in ports. It is necessary to try to calculate the optimal amount of explosives that carriers will carry to attack ships in the naval base. So that a single UAV / Rocket would cause noticeable damage, and that they could be launched by a large group.
    1. +4
      15 August 2023 13: 55
      And here is the problem - it is IMPOSSIBLE to use nuclear weapons. Since this automatically gives the right to use it to the enemy.

      Do you think that by destroying the enemy’s naval base with conventional weapons, attacking him first, you won’t get a nuclear response? Holy innocence. lol
      1. 0
        16 August 2023 14: 39
        Well, here, apparently, the idea is that while the NW is trying to endure the enemy's NW, hosts of geraniums are flying to its bases. The plot for redalerta straight
  12. -2
    15 August 2023 14: 57
    In two years, drones will be predominantly used in hostilities. The people and military equipment participating in hostilities will be almost immediately destroyed by hordes of drones
    1. 0
      16 August 2023 18: 35
      When the first machine guns appeared, philosophers started talking about the senselessness of wars with their use. Such seemed to them the firepower of this weapon that the opponents would quickly kill each other.

      ps They will also develop an antidote against drones and UAVs. Yes, in the meantime, we often see how a drone chases one infantryman like a wolf after a hare or a piece of armored vehicles.
  13. -3
    15 August 2023 16: 00
    Quadcopters with radar, cameras and a submersible sonar, instead of k27, 4 pieces per ship. The payload is preferably interchangeable, or universal copters of a larger size. Here is the AWACS on each ship. Modules for UAVs can be expanded with missile weapons, depth charges, a rescue cradle, and generally anything the Navy wants. Of the minuses, the transportation of troops. It is necessary to provide for the basing of both UAVs and helicopters on new ships.
  14. -3
    15 August 2023 17: 23
    The article is interesting and generally consistent and REAL, unlike a friend with bells. But unfortunately we have such a small barrel of tar in a spoon of honey. We do not have the ability to organize such a raid on the bases of our main opponents purely technically within a reasonable time and make it more than once. But the United States or China may well, having a large number of ships that can be used as "wombs" So here you need to think about how to defend yourself from such a "surprise". Moreover, the fleet here is absolutely helpless. The only ships that can in air defense today are 22350, we have only 2 pieces and only in the Northern Fleet. The same Black Sea Fleet with its RTOs is rather a set of targets that, in case of danger, must be welded to the pier or placed on piles.
  15. 0
    15 August 2023 19: 20
    So the Iranians have already come to this. We began equipping our "drone carriers" with various Shaheeds.
  16. 0
    16 August 2023 05: 05
    UAV waves, albeit 3, but all with mixed impact.
  17. 0
    17 August 2023 11: 22
    the lack of air defense of the terrorists in Syria created the illusion that the enemy can be dealt with with free-falling bombs - there is no need to buy and spend expensive precision-guided munitions, and the war in Nagorno-Karabakh created the image of the "invincible Bayraktar".

    illusions arise only among the profane, who need them - illusions for a quiet life ...
    the lack of analytics on ongoing events only means that there are an excessive number of laymen in the professional environment!
    what we see on the example of our MO (look at what is posted at the exhibition now)
    or on the example of the attitude towards Wagner - opposite approaches to solving the tasks
  18. 0
    17 August 2023 12: 44
    This is how they report to the president, this is a vivid example of what Sunflower is, how it can and should be used to your advantage,” the designer emphasized. to the exercises and their active phase: the grouping and regrouping of ships, air flights, the preparation and landing of troops.We sat all day, like in a movie, and watched how events unfolded.Without exaggeration, we can say that we saw these exercises in such a format, which no other means can provide.We saw the whole picture with one tool: how helicopters flew from ship to ship, landings, maneuvers of ships and aircraft in real time.https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/11736069
    As of October 23, 2007, the SPRN orbital constellation consisted of three satellites - 1 US-KMO in geostationary orbit (Kosmos-2379 was launched into orbit on August 24.08.2001, 2) and 2422 US-KS in a highly elliptical orbit (Kosmos-21.07.2006 was launched into orbit on July 8 .2430[23.10.2007] Kosmos-9 was launched into orbit on 27/2008/2440[10]). On June XNUMX, XNUMX, Kosmos-XNUMX was launched[XNUMX].
    The Su-34 front-line bomber is capable of not only destroying ground targets, but also conducting reconnaissance. In order to expand these capabilities of the aircraft, a family of so-called. universal reconnaissance containers under the code "Sych". Recently it became known that such equipment is used during the Special Operation and contributes to the detection and destruction of enemy targets.
    https://topwar.ru/199782-universalnye-kontejnery-razv..
    And we have a good connection with the military, the president himself checked during the exercises, I just don’t understand how it is possible to substitute the commander-in-chief so that he does not notice the setup. Yes, I understand, and Nicholas 1 and 2 were substituted and even Stalin with false information. But Stalin somehow got out and began to receive the truth, and then the age of the Internet. As in the song All is well, beautiful marquise,