Ukrainian "Abrams": clearly not the junk they counted on

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Ukrainian "Abrams": clearly not the junk they counted on

A few days ago it became known that the US government approved the shipment of a battalion kit tanks "Abrams" in the amount of 31 units for the armed forces of Ukraine. The vehicles have been fully repaired, put into combat condition and are awaiting shipment, as announced by the head of the US Army Procurement Division, Doug Bush.

Of course, they cannot be expected to appear at the front in the near future, since, in addition to tanks, ammunition, spare parts, repair kits, and other related items also need to be transported. Nevertheless, it can be said with confidence that already in the fall, units will appear in the Ukrainian troops, knocked together on the basis of these heavyweights.



However, something else is interesting here: the closer the hour of dispatch, the more versions about which particular modification of the Abrams will be in the hands of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. It is possible that the tanks will differ significantly from the standard M1A1 variant announced by the officials.

They promised M1A2 - they will give M1A1


As you know, the decision to supply American Abrams tanks was made at the end of January. The party was planned to be small - a battalion set, and the deadlines were stretched right up to the end of 2023. Nevertheless, the delight of the Ukrainian side knew no bounds, especially when it became clear that M1A2 modification vehicles would be sent to Kyiv as military assistance.

To some extent, these sentiments could be understood: M1A2 compared to the rubbish that was available in the Ukrainian army, like a C-class Mercedes among the old Zaporozhets. The tank is not the freshest - production began back in 1992. But, in addition to the high combat characteristics traditional for the Abrams, good crew safety indicators, mobility, maintainability and other things, it is also packed very well electronically.

М1А2
М1А2

Thermal imaging devices for the driver, gunner and commander, who also has a panoramic sight - a surveillance device. Automated fire control system. IVIS information system equipment for interfacing with a tactical level automated control system with the possibility of exchanging combat and reconnaissance information between vehicles and command posts. Navigation equipment, etc. In general, when the entire tank fleet consists of old Soviet models, this miracle of technology looks tempting.

But promises do not always correlate with reality, and the capabilities of tank factories do not always correspond to requests from customers. The fact is that the demand for overhaul and modernization of the Abrams is quite large. Moreover, we are talking not only about the US Army, but also about foreign customers, among which the priority is Taiwan, which ordered a batch of modified M1A2s in connection with the ever-increasing threat from China.

Yes, the Americans have not been producing tanks of this type from scratch for a long time - everything is taken from storage bases. However, their preparation for transfer is a laborious process, including repair, replacement of armor filler and installation of components required by the customer. Therefore, in order not to miss the deadlines, in the end we settled on the M1A1.


Get it in shape


Here, it would seem, we already have a reason to rejoice - the United States promised Kyiv quite combat-ready tanks, and as a result they committed such a “treachery”, offering cars much older and poorer in terms of configuration.

Their mass production began in 1985, and in their original version, they did not have the same navigation and information control systems as their younger brothers M1A2, nor command panoramic sights - observation devices, without which they could fully work in the "hunter-shooter" mode. » The commander with the gunner cannot. However, there, in terms of the capabilities of the sights in conditions of poor visibility, not everything is going smoothly either, as well as in the fire control system, and so on.


However, among Western military experts and the media, there were suggestions that the Abrams of the 1985 model, although there are still plenty of them at the storage bases, will not be delivered to Ukraine. Both due to the relatively low combat effectiveness and, as a result, high potential losses, and due to the presence of standardized M1A1 modernization projects.

This was indirectly confirmed by American representatives, saying that the Ukrainian M1A1 will be generally similar to the M1A2 in terms of their capabilities. Therefore, it is assumed that the likely candidates for joining the ranks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are tanks taken from storage and having received part of the improvements corresponding to the Situational Awareness program (SA, Situational Awareness).

In full execution, this program includes a total repair of absolutely all components and assemblies of the tank to the state, as they say in the West, “zero hour”, as if the car had just been released from the factory and had zero mileage. The armor filler is replaced with third-generation uranium. The fire control system is being modernized, both through the introduction of new hardware and software components, including an updated ballistic computer with an expanded amount of machine memory, and in terms of providing the ability to fire most modern American shells.


The appearance of a panoramic observation device for the commander in this modification is not provided, however, the gunner has at his disposal a second-generation “teplak” with a high image resolution and, accordingly, a good target identification distance. The driver also has a thermal imager, which expands his ability to drive a tank in conditions of poor visibility, including at night.

From other equally important electronics: the introduction of tank information and diagnostic equipment to monitor the condition of the components and other units of the machine, new means of communication, satellite navigation, as well as the FBCB2-BFT terminal. This contraption allows you to work with an automated combat control system at the brigade level and below, with all the ensuing consequences in the form of obtaining information about your own position and the location of friendly troops and enemy units, exchanging combat information, and so on.


Of course, no uranium armor is provided for the М1А1 for Ukraine. And, following the statements of the Americans about the absence of some "critical" electronic components, we can say that the equipment for the FBCB2 will not fit in tanks either. Officially - because "it's too difficult, you need training." But in fact: it is impossible to deploy this network in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and the probability of the terminals falling into the hands of the enemy represented by the Russian troops with all the consequences is too high.

As for the rest of the improvements, they will most likely be in the Ukrainian Abrams, and this, of course, is no longer the level of the standard “old man” M1A1. Of course, there is no need to praise too much, but jokes about the transfer of rusty junk from warehouses to Ukrainians are still premature.

In the end, a tank capable of firing almost the entire range of American-made shells - from feathered armor-piercing to grape shot - and also flavored with good sights, communications and navigation equipment, can do a lot of things. Although, given the small number of vehicles ready for transfer and the “counterattack”, which is sad for Western vehicles, the fate of the tanks may turn out to be very difficult.
  • Edward Perov
  • wikipedia.org / dzen.ru / thedrive.com / odetievbrony.ru
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  1. +11
    August 13 2023
    The most competent use of such equipment in these conditions is nightly fleeting fire raids (in triplets) on the fortification line from outside the minefield, in order to deplete the defense and hunt for equipment.
    I would use them like that in the place of the Ukrainian generals, and during the day I would hide them 20-30 km from the front line.
    But the Armed Forces of Ukraine, most likely, will “love” half of them in the meat assault dear to their hearts, and the remaining half will be driven to the rear and hidden, as happened with Leo. Yes
    1. +17
      August 13 2023
      The weight of the tank is under 70 tons ... which means it will be expected to be used in places suitable for its weight, where there are bridges under it, where there are no swamps, where it will not get bogged down in black soil and then.
      It is expected that the Ukronazis will protect it from being captured by our fighters ... which means, again, the areas of its use will be limited by this circumstance ... in addition, our intelligence needs to already now probe the locations of repair shops and technical specialists for these tanks, as well as fuel depots for they ... these monsters eat fuel decently ... in general, there are a lot of details and trifles for this tank.
      1. +23
        August 13 2023
        M1A1 weighs not 70 tons, but 57 tons. And in the ground, it will not bog down much more than the T-90M, because in terms of specific pressure on the ground, it only loses a little 1.01kg / cm² versus 0.98kg / cm², and even wins in terms of specific power: 26.7hp / t versus 24l .s./t. Of course, more modern modifications have degraded mobility characteristics, but not everything is so bad.
        1. +9
          August 13 2023
          At the moment, "Abrams" is one of the heaviest tanks in the world.
          Weight depends on modification:
          M1 - 54,4 tons;
          M1A1 - 61,3 tons;
          M1A2 - 62,1 tons;
          1. +16
            August 13 2023
            Quote: Lech from Android.
            At the moment, "Abrams" is one of the heaviest tanks in the world.
            Weight depends on modification:
            M1 - 54,4 tons;
            M1A1 - 61,3 tons;
            M1A2 - 62,1 tons;

            does it matter how many tons? if you already started talking about cross-country ability, then the main thing is the specific pressure on the ground, and it is approximately the same as that of the t-90 with a mass of 50 tons ..
            1. +11
              August 13 2023
              Quote: Level 2 Advisor
              does it matter how many tons?

              Very important. I pulled out the bekha drowned in the swamp with a tank, easier than a cork from a bottle. But with Abrams, such a trick may no longer work Yes laughing

              Quote: Level 2 Advisor
              the main thing is the specific pressure on the ground, and it is approximately the same as that of the t-90 with a mass of 50 tons ..

              That's all until it gets stuck. And that's where the real differences begin...
            2. BAI
              +25
              August 13 2023
              The bridge does not care about the specific pressure on the ground. If the bridge holds 55 tons, the t-90 will pass, but Abrams will not.
              1. +11
                August 13 2023
                Quote: BAI
                The bridge does not care about the specific pressure on the ground. If the bridge holds 55 tons, the t-90 will pass, but Abrams will not.

                I don't understand why you were downvoted. Doubles, probably. You are absolutely right - any span structures with an air part, fixed at two points, in addition to the limits of concentrated load (where point specific pressure is very important) also have limits of distributed load (where it is not pressure that is important, but only pure mass). Type of deformation - bending (deflection). It is not endless. If the bridge holds 55 tons, then under 60 tons it will collapse. Even if Abrams instead of two has one very wide caterpillar, and the specific pressure will be minimal. The minusers would like to read laughing
                1. -1
                  August 13 2023
                  Quote: Peter_Koldunov
                  The minusers would like to read

                  Quote: Peter_Koldunov
                  If the bridge holds 55 tons, then under 60 tons it will collapse.

                  And what are these bridges, designed specifically for 55 tons? Are you interested in standards in this area? Well, because if after the class of 20 tons (a truck will not pass over such a bridge) the next class of the bridge is immediately 100 (three euro trucks), then your whole plan is down the drain.
                  1. +11
                    August 13 2023
                    Quote: Negro
                    after the class of 20 tons (a truck will not pass on such a bridge), the next class of the bridge is immediately 100 (three euro trucks)

                    Many bridges to / from were built as part of the post-war reconstruction and development, in the late 1940s and early 1950s, when even the word "euro-truck" was not heard, so the figures for the nominal load capacity do not necessarily correspond to current standards. Something, of course, was built and / or modernized in later Soviet times. In the post-Soviet? It is unlikely that then the chiefs had other priorities for spending budget funds, like grabbing while they are grabbing. And since bridges must be maintained and at least painted in time so that rust does not corrode, I will not be sure of the real carrying capacity even of those bridges that were built in the USSR.
                    1. -1
                      August 14 2023
                      Quote: Nagan
                      the words of such a "euro truck" have not been heard, so the figures for the nominal load capacity do not necessarily correspond to current standards

                      So 30 years since they heard this word. 40 tons is now the maximum weight of a road train without additional permits for the EMNIP heavyweight.

                      Naturally, heavier equipment needs other ARVs, pontoons and other machinery. But the problem of bridges is sucked from the finger.

                      By the way. How much does Armata weigh there?
                      1. 0
                        August 20 2023
                        Quote: Negro
                        Quote: Nagan
                        the words of such a "euro truck" have not been heard, so the figures for the nominal load capacity do not necessarily correspond to current standards

                        So 30 years since they heard this word. 40 tons is now the maximum weight of a road train without additional permits for the EMNIP heavyweight.

                        Naturally, heavier equipment needs other ARVs, pontoons and other machinery. But the problem of bridges is sucked from the finger.

                        By the way. How much does Armata weigh there?


                        [thumb]https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2023-08/img- e6dd0b72d775f67ab1739d6012cc3cfb-v.jpg[/thumb]

                        And the USSR built bridges with a margin of safety, in the photo the test of the bridge in my hometown in 1952, the bridge stood for 70 years, in 2022 a new one was built.
                      2. 0
                        November 25, 2023
                        What kind of tanks are there on the bridge7
                  2. 0
                    October 30 2023
                    Yes Yes…
                    On the road to Pskov from the border, most of the bridges and bridges have 14-ton signs. And the trucks are coming in a stream. And they don’t fall, infections)
                2. +4
                  August 13 2023
                  Quote: Peter_Koldunov
                  If the bridge holds 55 tons, then under 60 tons it will collapse.

                  With such excess load, the bridge must withstand.
                  Now, if 60t rolls over the bridge under 40t, then it will collapse, although, most likely, not the first time.
                  PS It was possible to cross the bridge under 9,5t by car 7,5t. And such machines passed 6 pieces at a time (successively).
            3. 0
              October 5 2023
              Quote: Level 2 Advisor
              does it matter how many tons?

              Very important.
              If it is heavy beyond any measure, it will fall into basements, heating mains, and so on, just like its ancestor, the Tiger2.
              Well, BRIDGES, so “Mouse” had to completely forget about the bridges according to the project and cross the river in conjunction with the second (one turns the generator while standing on the shore, the second rides on an electric motor along the bottom and pulls the cable from the first, then they change).
              And this mousey perversion is precisely because of the weight that the bridges cannot withstand.
          2. -1
            August 13 2023
            Ukrainian "Abrams": clearly not the junk they counted on

            How not old? Will they give you new shafts?
          3. +3
            August 14 2023
            I don't understand what we are discussing now?
            The United States is transferring xoxlam 31 Abrams tanks ...
            Battalion...
            A few days ago, Sergei Chemezov reported to Putin on the delivery of 296 new helicopters this year, the lion's share of which are Ka-52 attack Alligators and Mi-28 Night Hunters.
            The crews of the Abrams battalion, most likely, will never understand what killed them ...
            For a year and a half of the war, the RF Armed Forces destroyed thousands xoxlyatsky tanks.
            More battalion, less battalion...
            Statistical error...
            1. 0
              August 23 2023
              What are they fighting with and why is there no parade on Khreshchatyk? Or did dozens of German tanks break a quick victory? There is a site where a photo of each wrecked tank is recorded in this ... own. For interest, look and adjust the numbers a little. PS The attacking side always suffers greater losses
            2. 0
              25 September 2023
              The number of tanks is not important. Hopes for a wunderwaffle lead to deep depression after it was destroyed - bayraktars, javelins, nlows, 777, leopards, patriots, the next Abrams and f-16. The West does not want to decredit its highly praised weapons. Hope to defeat Russia with high-tech the weapons were broken down by the cost, the small number and the inability or inability to fully use them. Having a super cool weapon, but not having batteries or spare parts for it does not help much in the war. And there are few super cool ones, they are expensive, it’s a pity, they don’t want to give them to the Russians, In general, I wouldn’t wait for supplies of something good to Ukraine.
            3. 0
              October 5 2023
              Well, yes, but the retreat from Kyiv is a gesture of goodwill.
              1. 0
                November 17, 2023
                Do you think it was necessary to go for a meat assault? You would shout that the reindeer herder put the boys down for nothing!
    2. +16
      August 13 2023
      Quote: And Us Rat
      The most competent use of such equipment in these conditions is nightly fleeting fire raids (in triplets) on the fortification line from outside the minefield, in order to deplete the defense and hunt for equipment.
      I would use them like that in the place of the Ukrainian generals, and during the day I would hide them 20-30 km from the front line.
      But the Armed Forces of Ukraine, most likely, will “love” half of them in the meat assault dear to their hearts, and the remaining half will be driven to the rear and hidden, as happened with Leo. Yes

      Well, let's see. From the point of view of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the main thing in these deliveries is the appearance of Ukrainian crews and units that can serve as a base for training and re-equipping Ukrainian tank units with Western equipment. And in battle, in general, training, motivation and organization of interaction most often win. The caliber of the gun and the thickness of the armor are just a nice bonus.
      1. 0
        August 13 2023
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        And in battle, in general, training, motivation and organization of interaction most often win.

        I agree with this 120%.
      2. 0
        August 13 2023
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        The caliber of the gun and the thickness of the armor are just a nice bonus.

        Let's just say that Western tanks can be part of the NATO network-centric system. Which really gives a new quality to the aircraft. Another thing is that no one promises any network-centric system of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, especially against the backdrop of the already ongoing NWO.
        By themselves, the Abrams are not so much better than the T-90M to make a difference. All the more, it would be nice if they gave everything as many as they have, and their only incomplete battalion.
        1. +1
          August 14 2023
          These abrams are not only no better than the t-90m, they are worse, they are even worse than the last t-72b3m. What's worse? Well, first of all, with thin sides and the absence of remote sensing standards, the Ukrainians will provide them with a maximum of 1 contact, but the difference is huge ... The gun there is also not the newest, 44 caliber, if they don’t give new shells, they may very well not break through the hull, the tower , most likely, the newest ones will not break through ...
          They will not be given uranium armor, which means that the front of the hull is no thicker than that of the t-72b, only without modern remote sensing ...
          Weak sides without DZ standards, which means that not even a lancet, but just a FVP with a beam is very dangerous for him ...
          Even an old rapier or t-55, if it finds an armor-piercing gun, can hit it on board ... The sides of the t-72b3m with a modern DZ will most likely hold the rapier, the new DZ gives a good increase in protection against crowbars ...
          There is no panorama there, the only thing it can be better than is a better walkie-talkie. Everything else is about the same as our tanks, but the protection is worse, especially from the sides.
          1. +1
            August 14 2023
            Quote: Georgy Sviridov
            These abrams are not only not better

            The author wrote that these the abrams will be in a unique modification (for some reason) and what is stuffed in them - the devil knows. We'll see in time.
            The current army modification of Abram is qualitatively stronger than the T-90M, but of course not in the amount of one battalion. Plus, this is a grandfather-style tank blitzkrieg machine, which in the current realities is available only to Americans and no one else (well, maybe Jews in their theater of operations). In the conditions of NWO, the optimal balance of tank qualities is somewhat different.
            1. 0
              August 14 2023
              And why is even the latest abrams better than the t-90m?
              The armor of the sides is slag there, of course, the screens were hung there, but fundamentally, the issue has not been resolved ...
              Pturov was never made, full-fledged land mines too ...
              Heavy, short power reserve, you need a loader ...
              Of the pluses, a pan-frame (plus a situational one, a copter or birds is still needed). A good walkie-talkie, a shrapnel projectile coupled with the tank's suo ... Most likely, the forehead of the hull is better armored, primarily the NLB ...
              Outweigh the pros over the cons?
              The issue is very controversial, most likely the tanks are parity, but in this theater of operations, where the main enemies of art, fvp drones and ragweed, abrams is not a favorite.
              1. +3
                August 15 2023
                Quote: Georgy Sviridov
                And why is even the latest abrams better than the t-90m?

                The current modification is invulnerable in the frontal projection for any sub-calibers that fit into the carousel. At the same time, the T-90M makes its way through the current Abrams subcaliber. The AZ system helps against any slow flying Mr, including VOGs, Lancets, etc. The universal projectile provides many interesting possibilities. The layout advantages have not gone away.
                Quote: Georgy Sviridov
                Pturov never did

                The Jews have ATGMs for this weapon, the Germans tried them, but they are not needed.
                Quote: Georgy Sviridov
                Heavy

                Not interested.
                Quote: Georgy Sviridov
                small power reserve

                Not far from Melitopol.
                Quote: Georgy Sviridov
                need a charger

                This is problem?
                Quote: Georgy Sviridov
                where are the main enemies of art, fvp drones and ragweed, abrams is not a favorite

                As I said, the Abrams is the perfect tank for the Americans and only for the Americans. For the realities of the NWO, I would balance the tank differently. For peripheral conflicts, no one will balance tanks, but the Turks are thinking in a similar direction for themselves.
                1. 0
                  August 16 2023
                  charging this is a problem, have you tried pulling utility shells out of the ammo rack on the move in the tank, holding the shutter opening button of one of the two legs, and then turning to put the shell? and how long will you last as a loader in a real battle under fire? how much you need to have a cool physique, imagine and work out actions to the smallest detail so as not to overstrain and not make a mistake, the rate of fire declared is more an exception than a rule
              2. 0
                October 5 2023
                And the Zapad(l)a tanks are what we called tank destroyers.
                Purely destroying other tanks, from an ambush.
                That’s why there’s no reserve of movement (they’ll be brought there), and armor in the forehead (and even then not always), because it’s not necessary.
                That’s why height + mass. The height allows you to tilt the gun more, but you don’t care about the weight while sitting in ambush.
                This is not exactly their MBT.
        2. -1
          August 19 2023
          Abrams (like Leopards) are so far single specimens in the enemy's cage on the fields of the NWO. Making a fetish or a scarecrow out of them is a stupid idea. They won't make the weather. Practically similar to them, the T-90 (massively used by the RF Ministry of Defense) burns no worse and regularly appears both in enemy reports and in photo and video in the media.
    3. +6
      August 13 2023
      Quote: And Us Rat
      The most competent use of such equipment in these conditions is nightly fleeting fire raids (in triplets) on the fortification line from outside the minefield, in order to deplete the defense and hunt for equipment.

      The Ukrainians did something similar at the time of their "counterattack", but as a result they quickly turned from "hunters" into "game" to shoot Russian "Alligators", whose Whirlwind ATGMs cover their miracle of weapons "like a bull a sheep" in terms of detection range and defeat.
      I'm more interested in the question of whether our "Lancet" will be able to penetrate the hefty, but relatively thin upper frontal armored part of this tank ...
      1. +3
        August 13 2023
        Abrams has the equivalent frontal protection of 900mm of armor.
        1. +6
          August 13 2023
          Quote: Andrey Moskvin
          Abrams has the equivalent frontal protection of 900mm of armor.

          No one will hit him in the forehead with a Lancet. The question of the possibility of defeating the "roof" of the tower.
          1. +4
            August 13 2023
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            No one will hit him in the forehead with a Lancet. The question of the possibility of defeating the "roof" of the tower.

            "Pope antelope
            Why such a son?
            It doesn't matter - what's on his forehead,
            What's on the forehead - everything is one. "

            (V.S. Vysotsky)
            Abrasha not only has a "leaky" roof. He still has a weak engine compartment reservation on top. Again, an auxiliary power plant for turning the tower and powering it in the parking lot is moved to the rear of the tower.
            Chassis, that is, caterpillars, obviously will not endure a meeting with our mine-explosive barriers ... But about fuel - a separate song in general! Abrasha (unlike our 72/90) is generally gourmet: he eats only highly purified fuel with a minimum sulfur content, and besides, with "tasty" additives ... And fuel bases and tankers, as far as I know, are not very protected by armor!
            Again, our RPG fighters, but for MILLION, and even the "goldfish" will be fried !!! Because the RPG-29 in Iraq burned them perfectly ... and it was the M1A1M ...
            As they say - you have to repeat!
            AHA.
          2. +4
            August 13 2023
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            No one will hit him in the forehead with a Lancet.

            And why not try? "Brilliant", without sarcasm, the M1 armor scheme is now playing against him. VLD cannot be simply strengthened, otherwise the loss of internal volume or visibility of fur-water
            1. +1
              August 13 2023
              Quote: svp67
              "Brilliant", no sarcasm, M1 booking scheme

              The scheme is really ingenious for those times. 80mm could well hold everything that could be shot into it in the 1980s, because at such an angle of inclination it flew almost tangentially, and could hardly do anything worse than scratch the paint.
              But... many years have passed since then. Who then knew that roof-breakers and loitering ammunition would appear, which would hit her almost normal. I wonder if the Lancet will pierce 80mm or what?
          3. +2
            August 13 2023
            Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
            No one will hit him in the forehead with a Lancet. The question of the possibility of defeating the "roof" of the tower.

            And he also doesn’t have uranium armor filling on his tracks, as in his forehead ... and any mine puts him in cancer. And we have a lot of mines laughing laughing laughing
            Under fire, no one will repair it. And there is a lottery - either his trousers will drag him away at night, or we. In advance, no one can guarantee the safe evacuation of a damaged tank by a ukrovermacht. And I think that military officials in the United States are also well aware of this.
            1. -1
              August 13 2023
              Quote: Peter_Koldunov
              And there is a lottery - either his trousers will drag him away at night, or we.

              To drag such a colossus, in which it would be fine if only the caterpillar was broken, and even the skating rink was knocked out, maybe not even one, the task is still that even in itself. And you will have to drag it through the minefield. And by the time this minefield remains at one of the sides in the rear, the tank will either be burned or blown up, not one, then another.
        2. +2
          August 13 2023
          Quote: Andrey Moskvin
          Abrams has the equivalent frontal protection of 900mm of armor.

          You are confusing. The VLD of the M1 is homogeneous and only 80 mm, and most importantly, it is very difficult to strengthen it so as not to deprive the mez water of the view
        3. +3
          August 13 2023
          Quote: Andrey Moskvin
          Abrams has the equivalent frontal protection of 900mm of armor.

          Leopolds - up to 860mm ... but they still burn like pretty little ones. Just don't hit on the forehead, that's all.
      2. -1
        August 13 2023
        And why should he beat VLD? The lancet will not break through it, it’s not a cumulative, but it seems like a landmine what the roof of the tower is a more suitable place, and if there are no side screens with additional canopies, like the Leopards, then it can normally go into the sides, there the armor is also not very good, the feed is generally fire !!!angry
        1. +4
          August 13 2023
          Quote: Eroma
          The lancet will not break through it, it’s not a cumulative, but it seems like a landmine

          Not only is it CUMULATIVE, it also has the property of a "shock core"
          1. 0
            October 5 2023
            Quote: svp67
            Not only is it CUMULATIVE, it also has the property of a "shock core"

            But why?
            Yes, the recess (funnel) is smaller, but the breakdown also decreases.
            But the breakdown RANGE increases (well, this “core” flies stupidly far away while maintaining penetration), which is not necessary for a rocket.
            Does the atata do more behind the barrier?
      3. +2
        August 13 2023
        Quote: svp67
        The Ukrainians did something similar at the time of their "counterattack", but as a result they quickly turned from "hunters" into "game"

        Illiterate planning, lack of experience in such tactics, lack of key tools.
        If you send a sniper with an AK-47 instead of a sniper with a SVLK on a sniper mission, then the result will be natural.
        After all, it was not for nothing that I focused on these tanks, for the same T-72 I would not suggest this in my life, they simply do not have the tools for such an application, I would use them in a completely different way.

        Quote: svp67
        whose ATGM "Whirlwind" cover their miracle of weapons "like a bull to a sheep" in terms of detection and destruction.

        This is generally a separate issue, the organization of front-line air defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine borders on insanity, and the equipment leaves much to be desired. Although even the existing one can be organized much more efficiently.
        It simply amazes me that I am not even an officer, but a simple retired ensign, I see all those frank blunders of theirs that could be easily avoided, and their majors and colonels stubbornly do not notice in the forehead and continue to trample on the rake. Is their training really that bad?

        Quote: svp67
        I'm more interested in the question of whether our "Lancet" will be able to penetrate the hefty, but relatively thin upper frontal armored part of this tank ...

        The fight will show. A high-explosive one may not penetrate, but a cumulative one should, in theory.
      4. +1
        August 13 2023
        Quote: svp67
        will our "Lancet" be able to penetrate the hefty, but relatively thin upper frontal armored part of this tank ...

        To get exactly into the top sheet of frontal armor, you need to try hard.
        Most often, records are published where the Lancet hits a tank on the side, either hulls or turrets.
    4. -2
      August 13 2023
      .. I agree .. but in general the topic is the latest (yeah, unparalleled) or outdated (yeah, compared to what_and, say, according to the performance characteristics of A1_A2, they differ only in the presence_of the absence of inserts from uranium and the amers' observation devices are pulled up to level A2) the essence of the application (as one wrote. ..the author what's the point that you have 3 queens on a chess field if you don’t know how to play chess at all ...) the combat use of tanks on a modern battlefield is the Achilles heel of all (well, except for the Israelis) modern tank commanders .. attacks in the spirit of the Second World War (yeah, the tank columns did not go through the minefields and did not have time to turn into a ''pig'' ..) it was good against 45 mm anti-tank missiles and ATGMs, and what is now on the battlefield is just awful (UZHZHAS Karl) and here you need or_or..dramatically change the strategy or you need a tank_monster (with airborne air defense systems and anti-tank gatlings + a new concept of the main armament because (in my opinion of course) a 125 mm smoothbore is only suitable against the same MBT and against everything else conditionally ..) topic interesting and not for this war, but something needs to be done. what's the point then in MBT .. something like that
    5. -6
      August 13 2023
      Do the chubats have Leo?
      Where is the droushka?
      1. +2
        August 13 2023
        Quote: 75Sergey
        Do the chubats have Leo?
        Where is the droushka?

        From the front.
    6. 0
      August 13 2023
      Quote: And Us Rat
      I would use them like this in the place of Ukrainian generals

      Whose side he adheres to, the commentator explained (distracting from the lives of Russian fighters, their fates). But it would be better if "Leo", "Chelki", "Abrashi" were destroyed before the first shot. With their uranium shells and armor - scrapped, the most worthy place.
      1. +3
        August 13 2023
        Quote: skeptic
        Whose side does the commentator follow

        His side, and his country. But I sympathize with you (RF) more than 404, I don't like the "Zapaden" mentality, personal preference, so to speak (although you are also not sugar).

        Quote: skeptic
        abstracting from the lives of Russian fighters, their destinies

        As a person who knows about the database firsthand, I condemn the war in any of its manifestations, as well as ALL deaths associated with it, but I understand and accept their inevitability. This is a necessary evil.

        Quote: skeptic
        it would be better if "Leo", "Chelki", "Abrashi" were destroyed before the first shot.

        Everything is in your hands, I personally would have done it. You also have enough stocks in this batch, no less than the Selyuks. There is something to work on.
    7. +2
      August 13 2023
      during the day I would hide 20-30 km from the front line.

      Maybe a ride if the engine and transmission of the "holy abrams" are made of adamantium.
      And so, they will develop a resource within a month with such a daily mileage.
    8. 0
      August 14 2023
      -Promised M1A2
      Such a "cow" is needed by himself.
      The car is quite decent. But there are a couple of drawbacks - there are no night vision equipment and relatively outdated weapons. Yes, and the ammunition (40 shells) is small
    9. 0
      August 15 2023
      Daily marches to the front line and back for 30 km? Both ways 60-70 km. And in the rear - a large area and number of servants for a powerful boar. On the roads, not in the field. With retinue. In open area. Raising the dust to the skies. Good targets.
  2. 0
    August 13 2023
    This will not affect the course of the war. Just like the Leopards, the Abrams are unlikely to reach the front line, they will burn them at the time of advancement to the LBS. This car has two main problems - huge fuel consumption and the need for constant maintenance. And the last one determines everything. Under the conditions of the war in Ukraine, the Khokhol will not have the opportunity to place repair units near the front line, and this will practically nullify the use of American vehicles.
    And experts say that despite the reinforced frontal armor, the back of these tanks is very weak.
    I think that soon we will see burning Abrams and hear a howl from across the ocean about the crooked hands of a Ukrainian ...
  3. +8
    August 13 2023
    The weapons that the West made for itself cannot be bad. Therefore, the happiness of hohliv is not in the weapon itself, but in its quantity.
    And here from the "Abrams" we return "to square one" to the origins of the discussions. To tunnels, ports, railways.... How does it all still work?
    1. AUL
      +4
      August 13 2023
      Quote: ivan2022
      The weapons that the West made for itself cannot be bad.

      The leopard is, as it were, more adapted to the conditions of 404. However, they burn quite acceptable!
      1. +5
        August 13 2023
        Quote from AUL
        The leopard is, as it were, more adapted to the conditions of 404. However, they burn quite acceptable!

        And here it is already necessary to take into account the quality of the crews and command. The same M1A showed themselves quite well in battles against Iraq, but as soon as they fell into the hands of Iraqi crews, they immediately turned out to be "not up to par"
        1. +2
          August 14 2023
          Quote: svp67
          as soon as they fell into the hands of Iraqi crews
          Yes, at least give them the Death Star, they will either break it or lose it. Arabs are so Arabs.
  4. +10
    August 13 2023
    One of the lost Abrams M1A2s in Iraq. First, the rebels killed his caterpillar, and then they threw bottles with Molotov cocktails and fired from RPG-29.
    The hatches are open, the tank is on fire from the inside.
    1. +4
      August 13 2023
      The tank has a dead space ... there is a video where the grenade launcher was able to get close to Abrams.
      1. 0
        August 14 2023
        The tank also has a barrel, if you hit it, the tank turns into a machine gun point.
    2. +2
      August 13 2023
      fired from RPG-29.
      "Vampire" seems to take any tank anyway, and they also "fired" at an already lined burning tank? Wasteful.
      1. AUL
        +2
        August 13 2023
        Quote: Andrey Moskvin
        Wasteful.

        So for joy, what can not you do!
      2. +5
        August 13 2023
        Quote: Andrey Moskvin
        "fired" at an already knocked out burning tank? Wasteful.

        It would be wasteful to allow the tank to be restored later on. It's more economical than risking your life to approach the restored monster again.
        1. +4
          August 13 2023
          Quote: skeptic
          It would be wasteful to allow the tank to be restored later on.

          Agree! Abrashek must be burned until it is completely unrepairable. And it’s better that the BZ detonates and the “tower is demolished”.
          There is an old saying: In order for a vampire not to come to life again, it is not enough for him to hammer an aspen stake in his heart, he also needs (to be sure) to chop off his head ... well, so that he is 100% listed as "irretrievable" losses.
          IMHO.
    3. +4
      August 13 2023
      One of the lost Abrams M1A2s in Iraq. First, the rebels killed his caterpillar, and then they threw bottles with Molotov cocktails and fired from RPG-29.

      It's interesting, but if you suffer like this with every tank ...
      Knock out a caterpillar, come up alive at a throwing distance, throw barrels of Molotov cocktails (a couple of bottles are definitely not enough, even into an open hatch), and then shoot at him from an RPG-29 ...
      So it’s possible to fill up destroyers at the pier, perhaps. Only more of everything.
      1. +2
        August 13 2023
        Quote from tsvetahaki
        It's interesting, but if you suffer like this with every tank ...
        Knock out a caterpillar, come up alive at a throwing distance, throw barrels of Molotov cocktails (a couple of bottles are definitely not enough, even into an open hatch), and then shoot at him from an RPG-29 ...
        So it’s possible to fill up destroyers at the pier, perhaps. Only more of everything.

        And what else to do if he is tenacious?
    4. +2
      August 13 2023
      Quote: Comrade
      One of the lost Abrams M1A2s in Iraq.

      Yes, it seems like A2 was not hit there.
      Of the 23 M1A1 tanks and Bradley infantry fighting vehicles ([9 M1A1 tanks and 6 M2A2 Bradley IFVs) destroyed by Iraqi resistance forces, 15 were hit by RPGs.
    5. +2
      August 13 2023
      This tank has already burned out the suspension and it lies on its belly.
      Written off, not repairable...
  5. +6
    August 13 2023
    in addition to the high combat characteristics traditional for Abrams, good indicators of crew safety, mobility, maintainability and other things,



    Iraq. 2022
  6. +8
    August 13 2023
    30-50 years ago, MGIMO and MSU, + other universities failed in the training of the elite, capable of meeting the enemy at distant approaches. Chat, ruin plans.
    Brezhnev, loudly and grechko not those put forward and not pushed.
    Everything again depends on the van. Get on the levers. Draw red lines with your blood.
    1. -6
      August 13 2023
      Many peoples of the World have problems and troubles from thieves and traitors, but there is also a people whose trouble is from Moscow State University, MGIMO, from the Conservatory .....
      And even - lift higher! - - from the CPSU, in which all posts, by the way, were elected ....

      Such a solid and excellent people, not like any idiots there in the West and East .....
      1. +4
        August 13 2023
        The trouble with Russians is ignorance of themselves. They do not know that they are one in SPIRIT, and not in DNA, religion or idea. He can be Russian, both with the formation of MGIMO and vocational schools. As well as goat sheep are also everywhere.

        It is difficult to build a Russian Civilization, "reigning, lying on its side" and "writing off" 400 years of the basic laws and rules of management from foreigners. Maybe now the Russians will break through their age-old hassle? This would only make things better for everyone.
        1. +1
          August 13 2023
          Quote: Bayun
          It is difficult to build a Russian Civilization, "reigning, lying on its side" and "writing off" 400 years of the basic laws and rules of economic management from foreigners. Maybe now the Russians will break through their age-old hassle?

          400 years did not break through, and now they suddenly break through? Are there prerequisites? request
      2. +2
        August 13 2023
        Quote: ivan2022
        The CPSU, in which all posts, by the way, were elected ....

        Here's just a nuance, they were 80% of the vertical, they were elected from the TOP, and not by the level of merit and professionalism, but by personal devotion to the one who chooses and the ability to suck up.
        The USSR was ruined by the growing (from generation to generation) incompetence of the leadership superimposed on the growing (from generation to generation) empty conceit of this very leadership.
        NONE of the rulers of the USSR was elected by the people in an open vote.
        1. 0
          August 15 2023
          Quote: And Us Rat
          NONE of the rulers of the USSR was elected by the people in an open vote

          As well as in the USA, Germany, China, North Korea, Great Britain, etc.
          And what?
    2. +1
      August 13 2023
      Chubaty, yours, the turnout failed, the State Department from you, in a rage - tick!
  7. +6
    August 13 2023
    2022 - "slowly grind the enemy"
    2023 - "endless supply of weapons will not affect the course of the conflict"
    2024 - ????
    ps some hope to wait for the change of ruler in the country across the ocean, in the hope that the new zits-chairman of the board of "Earth" will want to talk to him, and maybe he will sign some agreement (to deceive again)
  8. +1
    August 13 2023
    Let me tell you a case:

    In 2003, during the invasion of Iraq, the Iraqis seriously damaged the Abrams with ... a machine gun, like a DShK.
    His bullets hit the auxiliary power unit and it was seriously damaged, and the ignited fuel hit the tank engine, which immediately caught fire (a gas turbine engine, if that). The fire was localized, and the tank was evacuated and repaired.

    This is how the Abrams tank is perfectly protected from all threats. smile
    1. +3
      August 13 2023
      It was like that, you got ahead of me. The network is full of frames with burning Abrashs with reference to place and time.
      Now, if the roof had protection in the equivalent of 900 mm, as in the frontal projection, then it would be another matter.
    2. +6
      August 13 2023
      On the last Abrams, the APU was hidden under armor.
      1. +1
        August 13 2023
        Quote: Andrey Moskvin
        On the last Abrams, the APU was hidden under armor.

        Now yes, but in 2003 apparently not.
  9. +2
    August 13 2023
    Quote: And Us Rat
    during the day I would hide 20-30 km from the front line.
    But isn’t it difficult and expensive to drive 20-30 km every time to make a few shots? Kiev has already reported to the Americans that it will leave part of it in reserve in the deep rear, and distribute (spray) the other part among units in the LBS, pursuing the only goal - not to fall into the hands of the Russians.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +2
      August 13 2023
      Quote: rotmistr60
      drive 20-30 km to make a few shots?

      No, of course, the night is long, you can hit a dozen places. And 20km is an hour's walk, not fatal.

      Quote: rotmistr60
      Kyiv has already reported to the Americans that it will leave part of it in reserve in the deep rear, and distribute (spray) the other part among units in the LBS

      I didn't even doubt it. Apparently they want to use them as command vehicles for the formation of older tanks. Template and primitive, not a drop of imagination.

      Quote: rotmistr60
      the only goal is not to fall into the hands of the Russians.

      To do this, they had to leave them in Texas. laughing
      They are afraid of wolves - do not go into the forest.
      In general, a curious situation is observed, simple infantry Mykols are desperately hacked at the forefront (you can’t really blame them for cowardice), and their command makes decisions that show through the spirit of defeatism.
  10. +1
    August 13 2023
    Interestingly, is this head of the procurement department also sitting on kickbacks like his colleagues from the defense departments of other countries? Judging by the surname, he is not a random person there. Capitalists are corrupt
  11. +1
    August 13 2023
    Miracle technology is only in advertising ... Something doesn’t work from the factory, another was broken while we were training ... , in fact, they fight.

    The CREW (!) of the tank are more "piece" people than Formula 1 pilots. What's the point of 1000 tanks if they have 10 real crews? A recent example, I think everyone saw how real crew gouged a column of armored riders.
  12. +1
    August 13 2023
    Quote: And Us Rat
    The most competent use of such equipment in these conditions is nightly fleeting fire raids (in triplets) on the fortification line from outside the minefield, in order to deplete the defense and hunt for equipment.
    I would use them like that in the place of the Ukrainian generals, and during the day I would hide them 20-30 km from the front line.
    But the Armed Forces of Ukraine, most likely, will “love” half of them in the meat assault dear to their hearts, and the remaining half will be driven to the rear and hidden, as happened with Leo. Yes

    Night fleeting attacks require the highest level of training and skill of the crew and especially the driver, and on this type of machine: not three or even six months, but somewhere around a year or two.
    1. 0
      August 13 2023
      Night attacks require the highest level of training-skill of the crew

      I agree, especially when predominantly "analog" control, old thermal imagers, non-digital communications ...
  13. 0
    August 13 2023
    Why guess again, then they will appear and we will think, and so .... They wanted to put a lot of things and didn’t put them, but we like to occupy our heads with something, only to stir up the people in vain.
    1. -1
      August 13 2023
      Quote: Vadim S
      Many things they wanted to put and did not put

      Truth? I wonder what was not delivered from the promised?
  14. +9
    August 13 2023
    How zadolbali these "hooray-patriots"! They have already burned all the Abrams and drowned them in the swamp. Yes, all this will be covered with the blood of our guys. If we continue to chew snot, with the elimination of the criminal Bandera regime.
    1. +2
      August 13 2023
      Quote: Volunteer Marek
      How zadolbali these "hooray-patriots"!

      Ukrozhduny - more. Everyone dreams of how they would gouge the Russians on the "Abrash". Moreover, a lot of regrets that the Americans will not deliver something.
  15. -1
    August 13 2023
    I didn’t understand something, but what is the article about? The editor who missed the scribble, about the well-known for a long time? How does the tank differ from other tanks in terms of protection against kamikaze drones and Krasnopol? I REALLY don’t understand, editor, you don’t know that when playing online toys about tanks (Armata, Potato, Tundra) ALL schoolchildren know about the SEGMENTAL and extremely narrow (60 degrees out of 360) security of ALL tanks in the WORLD from ATGMs and BOPS? Do you consider the readers of THIS to be the author of the kindergarten? ... YES THERE IS NOTHING TO DISCUSS HERE !!!!
  16. +1
    August 13 2023
    For free and sweet vinegar. As they say. lol Try this tank in the forehead even more than insignificant. Well, it’s understandable that they’ll burn them too. By and large, the mines don’t care which tank to tear off the harp with rollers. To say that something will fundamentally change from their appearance there. No. Only extra victims. On both sides of the front. That's all.
  17. +6
    August 13 2023
    As usual .. Turbo patriots will shower everyone with hats. It is not correct to compare Leliks and Avrams. These are different armored tanks, Overview of Leo and Abrams
    Abrams

    Leo

  18. 0
    August 13 2023
    And so it was clear that they would give the M1A1 - the Marine Corps, they were only removed from service in 2016 and they had not yet had time to become completely unusable. However, it doesn't really matter anymore. Since the second half of September, it has been raining almost every day, this hippo has nothing to do there.
  19. 0
    August 13 2023
    Their fate will be - they are blown up by mines or become victims of helicopter pilots and anti-aircraft infantrymen. I doubt that there will be tank duels. Not a single duel of the ODS bradley with Russian infantry fighting vehicles on autocannons was recorded, and how much scribbling was about the armor of the bradleys impenetrable by 30 mm Russian shells and its all-destroying shells. In reality, only anti-tank systems fired at the bradley, for the missiles of which the bradley body is cardboard ..
  20. +3
    August 13 2023
    Although, given the small number of vehicles ready for transfer and the “counterattack”, which is sad for Western vehicles, the fate of the tanks may turn out to be very difficult.

    Did the author decide to take a piece of bread from Ryabov?
  21. BAI
    +1
    August 13 2023
    Of course, they cannot be expected to appear at the front in the near future, since, in addition to tanks, ammunition, spare parts, repair kits, and other related items also need to be transported.

    Actually, it has been so far - when they announce planned deliveries, then the weapon is already there
  22. BAI
    0
    August 13 2023
    Of course, they cannot be expected to appear at the front in the near future, since, in addition to tanks, ammunition, spare parts, repair kits, and other related items also need to be transported.

    Actually, it has been so far - when they announce planned deliveries, then the weapon is already there
  23. +3
    August 13 2023
    M1A2 compared to the rubbish that was in the Ukrainian army, like a C-class Mercedes among the old Zaporozhets. [quote]
    Ek he walked through the Soviet and Russian tanks!
    According to "our FSE" T-64, T-80, T-72.
    And we were told that they are not inferior to the "abrashkas", and if they are inferior, then not by much.
    1. +3
      August 13 2023
      In the war that Ukraine is waging, Armata will be rubbish. I saw only one video where the Leopard shoots. In all other cases - on
  24. +1
    August 13 2023
    [quote=level 2 advisor][quote=Lech from Android.]
    does it matter how many tons? if you already started talking about cross-country ability, then the main thing is the specific pressure on the ground, and it is approximately the same as that of the t-90 with a mass of 50 tons .. [/ quote]
    Are the restrictions on the mass of passing vehicles near bridges also calculated based on the specific pressure?
  25. 0
    August 13 2023
    Quote: svp67
    [Not only is it CUMULATIVE, it also has the property of a "shock core"

    "In order to hit them at a distance of up to several tens of kilometers, the drone, depending on the type of target being hit, carries a combat load weighing 3 or 5 kilograms. As a rule, it can be of three types: high-explosive fragmentation, cumulative or thermobaric." It's about the Lancet.
  26. +2
    August 13 2023
    A tank is also a tank in Africa ... The main thing is whose hands it will fall into and how they will "plan" his military "career" ... Yes, he is not a "trendsetter in tank fashion", today, but in capable hands, with attached, these hands to the head, can create enough problems on the theater of operations ... So, by the autumn thaw, on the Ukrainian theater of operations, you are welcome, for actual "fire tests", in full .... And it will be, far from "Freedom of Iraq", probably more abruptly, from Russia .....
  27. +3
    August 13 2023
    Given the fatness and heaviness of the Abrams, the Americans will most likely insist that this vehicle directly participate in the offensive to a minimum, playing the role of strengthening the defense, including mobile defense. Because the tank will die in the mines in the same way, but with its evacuation it will be more and more difficult. In the offensive, artillery (and other WTO) and mobile groups will continue to play the leading role.
  28. 0
    August 13 2023
    It seems that our "lancets" do not care what modification these tanks belong to. They will burn the same.
  29. +1
    August 13 2023
    Abrams are no better than Leopards, or rather, worse. And harder. So the benefit from them will be minimal.
  30. +1
    August 13 2023
    A tank is a tank, and this must be taken into account so that cheers-burners do not write here.
  31. -2
    August 13 2023
    Where are our Armats?
    If you believe everything written about them, Abrams is better than m1, m2
    1. 0
      August 14 2023
      T-72b3m is better than this abrams, and by a lot. He is about the same as m1a2. T-90m is better than any abrams, even the last one ...
      The really strong thing in the latest Abrams is a shrapnel projectile with an explosion in the indicated place, but those that give dill do not know how.
      1. -2
        August 14 2023
        The last Abrams M1A2S competes with Armata. Maybe it's time to take off the rose-colored glasses?
  32. 0
    August 13 2023
    M1A1 tank is a serious opponent even without additional equipment, but what about fuel and lubricants ?! Fuel consumption is high - 100-400 liters per 450 km of asphalt road (subject to cruising speed). The volume of the fuel tank is almost 2 tons, that is, it is enough to drive 400 km on the road or 150-200 km on rough terrain. Even taking into account the multi-fuel capacity of the AOT-1500 gas turbine engine, which was installed just on the first modifications of the M1A1 and M1A2. Definitely a fiasco... request crying
  33. -2
    August 14 2023
    The Abrams have thin sides, the gun is worse than the Leo 2a6. They won’t put modern armor, they don’t put a pan-frame on m1a1 ...
    It’s better, of course, than a cardboard leo1, but in fact it’s a t-72b3, only worse armored from the sides, and possibly from the front ... And the DZ will be an old kontank-1 ...
    In general, it’s right to let tanks send, the harm from them is less than from howitzers.
  34. +1
    August 14 2023
    The longer their deliveries are delayed, the harder it will be to use them. In the fall and early winter, 70 ton cars will simply be abandoned, they are not designed to drive on black soil
    1. 0
      August 14 2023
      Abrams from the place of unloading from the trailer to the front line will drive somewhere in the rear and thereby destroy the road network,
  35. 0
    August 14 2023
    Ukrainian "Abrams": clearly not the junk they counted on

    Interesting title. Did you count on some other junk?
  36. 0
    August 15 2023
    it will be possible to roll back weapons on a modern NATO tank. and then, in the event of a conflict being promoted, these abrashes still need to swim, and the ocean sea is now formidable, then the golf stream has stopped, then the sorgas sea has bloomed, storms, typhoons ((
  37. 0
    August 16 2023
    "Although, given the small number of vehicles ready for transfer and the "counterattack" that is sad for Western technology, the fate of the tanks may turn out to be very difficult. Although, given the small number of vehicles ready for transfer and the "counterattack" that is sad for Western technology, the fate of the tanks may be very hard." This is what is most likely to happen.
  38. The comment was deleted.
  39. 0
    August 23 2023
    Quote: Negro
    Another thing is that no one promises any network-centric system of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, especially against the backdrop of the already ongoing NWO.

    But it seems that they have all this. After all, the Ukrainians have NATO intelligence against which it seems that nothing can be done without declaring war on the entire Western world
  40. 0
    October 19 2023
    you also need to transport ammunition,

    The gun there is, roughly speaking, a copy of Rheinmetall; NATO has such a concept as a single caliber and shells from the Leopard tank could well be loaded into the gun of an Abrams tank. (Only the British with their tank took a different path.)

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