Sovereign chips: Russia in the global semiconductor battle

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Sovereign chips: Russia in the global semiconductor battle


Technological revolution in a single country


Chips are everything. Under such a slogan one can start any meeting of industrial commissions in any country. The problem with components proved to be especially acute during the last pandemic. For individual industries, the difficulties have not exhausted themselves to date. Since the beginning of the pandemic, automakers have been trapped in their own greed. As soon as the prospect of reduced demand due to lockdowns and other restrictions loomed, the concerns reduced purchases of chips and edited contracts. At the same time, the townspeople who settled at home began to urgently buy electronic gadgets and other equipment. In Russia alone, in 2021, the demand for electronics increased by 70 percent compared to the previous year. As a result, chip manufacturers gave all the freed capacity for semiconductors for phones and laptops. And when automakers caught on, feeling the growth in demand, time was lost. In 2021, the production of cars only due to a lack of electronic components around the world fell by a quarter. The pandemic has been canceled, but the shortage of chips in the auto industry has not gone away. In parallel with this, modern vehicles are saturated with electronics to the limit, further aggravating the situation. The boom in electric vehicles also required a multiple increase in the number of electronic components.



The Russian industry felt all the delights of the shortage of chips especially sharply in 2022, when foreigners one after another refused to supply. Conveyors with "primordially Russian" cars stood idle for several months due to a lack of ABS control units and airbags. The situation improved somewhat with the launch of the production of domestic ABS in the Kaluga Research and Production Enterprise Itelma. Only there is a nuance - the products are entirely and completely assembled under a Chinese license. Moreover, the most difficult part of the product - the electronic brains of the control unit - come to the conveyor ready-made from China. There is nothing surprising in this - the creation of a "sovereign" ABS will require more than one year and more than one billion investments. Russia is now forced to pay such a price for decades of the collapse of its own engineering school. The automotive industry is just one example in an endless series of production chains in which we are forced to use imported chips and components.


To build your own microelectronic industry, you will have to make a technological revolution. The restrictions imposed on the import of semiconductor hi-tech are not exclusively Russian "bonus". The Americans, who control most of the world's chip makers, are similarly seeking to slow down China's growth. The Dutch company ASM Lithography, which produces the most advanced photolithographs in the world, was banned by the United States from selling products to China, not to mention Russia. You can only buy well used cars 10-15 years old. Since August last year, the United States has a law on chips, or Creating Helpful Incentives to Produce Semiconductors Act (Law to stimulate the development of semiconductor production). The main goal is to move part of the production of microchips to the United States. At the moment, 70-75 percent of semiconductors are made by Americans in Taiwan. Under the very side of China. The CHIPS Act is based on $52 billion for the development of its own production and more than $24 billion for related tax incentives. There is a ban on deliveries to Russia and China of advanced graphics processors from the American Nvidia used in the construction of supercomputers. As planned, this should slow down the development of artificial intelligence. In March 2023, the CHIPS Act was tightened against China. Among other things, a ban has been introduced on investments in the production of chips with a topology of less than 28 nanometers, located in China. Beijing tried to respond asymmetrically and imposed export controls on gallium and germanium, widely used in microelectronics. At a minimum, this will force the West to seriously invest in the extraction and processing of rare earth metals - at the moment, China monopolizes the market. The battle over semiconductors is only getting hotter.

Russia intends to get involved in a world war of chips. Albeit with a giant lag, but get involved. At the moment, the country can produce chips with a topology of at least 65 nm, while the Taiwanese TSMC has already mastered 5 nm. There is no strategic catastrophe here - chips for missiles and other military equipment can be built at 100-150 nm, but in other industries there is no way without modern semiconductors. We are talking about our own supercomputers, the further miniaturization of night vision devices and the boundless civilian sector. Russia, in the end, will have to raise the aircraft industry, and there is no way here without its own world-class semiconductors. An ambitious program for the development of unmanned vehicles will also not do without modern chips. The first steps have already been taken. A factory for 28-nanometer topology chips is being built in Zelenograd, and Mikron received a loan of 7 billion rubles to expand production. Also, the Zelenograd Nanotechnology Center is developing a tender for 5,7 billion for a 130-nanometer photolithograph. Nearly a billion rubles were allocated to the center for a machine with a topology of 350 nm. Technologies, of course, the day before yesterday, but they are completely domestic. Recall that Russia is capable of producing 65-nm chips exclusively on previously purchased imported equipment - used Nikon and ASM Lithography. The government also thought about personnel training - 5 billion rubles are allocated for the construction of a network of test sites for testing the production of developed chips. It is hoped that for each product, the term for entering the series will be reduced by a whole year. One of the test sites is expected on the basis of the Moscow Institute of Electronic Technology. The plans include sites in St. Petersburg and other cities of Russia.

A spoon of tar


The government's attention to the problem of domestic microelectronics certainly deserves respect. But there is no way around this without skepticism. First of all, it is necessary to answer the question - who else in the world managed to build a "sovereign chip" alone? China is closest to us. In 2015, the PRC announced the concept of "Made in China 2025", according to which by 2025 the country will cover more than 70 percent of its domestic semiconductor needs on its own. But in 2022, that figure was barely 16 percent. The project failed. At the same time, despite all the difficulties, China has always been in a much more privileged position than Russia. How far it will be possible to crank out an equally ambitious project in our country is an open question.

The risks to the sovereign microchip program are not limited to the unique complexity of the product being created. First of all, these are engineering personnel. It is possible to allocate hundreds of billions of rubles for priority programs, but not to find highly qualified specialists. Creating world-class semiconductors requires the work of hundreds, if not thousands, of engineers and scientists. And not from one institute or design bureau, but from a whole conglomerate. There are plenty of pitfalls. For example, the Russian Institute for the Physics of Microstructures of the Russian Academy of Sciences has long and quite successfully been working on EUV photolithographs. These are modern machines that work on X-rays and are capable of "baking" chips at a rate of ten or less nanometers. Chief Researcher of the Institute, Corresponding Member Nikolai Salashchenko said in one of his interviews:

“We are making a lithograph that will be ten times cheaper than the existing ones. We expect that the prototype may take five to six years. And it will be a very popular machine for creating trial chips, for small-scale production.”

Reassuring picture, isn't it? Only the scientist gave an interview back in 2019. Five years have not passed yet, but News there is still no information about the breakthrough technology of maskless photolithography. But even if scientists manage to create a domestic photolithograph, this will not bring the production of microchips much closer. The time will come for process engineers who, firstly, must organize the mass production of the most complex products, and secondly, build and run factories. It is possible to develop a perfectly working prototype photolithograph that will outperform any product from Nikon and ASM Lithography, but fail its production. Unfortunately, a large part of domestic developments from the Soviet period fell victim to a similar pattern.


It is important to remember about the general culture of production of such complex equipment as microchips. The Indian example is illustrative. It was decided to organize the production of microchips in the country - Taiwanese Foxconn was invited for this. At first, they set their sights on topological norms of 28 nm, later they gradually descended to 40 nm, and as a result, the Taiwanese friends left the project altogether. You can talk a lot about the reasons, but the main one is that in India they could not find highly qualified personnel for production. Comparing Russia and India is, of course, incorrect. But we have enough reasons for this. Now conventional production is suffocating from a lack of labor and brains. In July 2023, according to Kommersant, 42 percent of industrial enterprises experience a shortage of workers. This has not happened since 1996. The company "Kronstadt", a well-known manufacturer drones, cannot find employees in nine specialties at once, among which the key ones are a commissioning and testing engineer, a process engineer, an aircraft assembly fitter and an aircraft electrical equipment installer. The problem looks like it will only get worse. Hence the question - where to get workers for future factories for the production of microchips?

Half of the solution to a problem is acknowledging that the problem exists. In Russia, with awareness of the situation, everything seems to be in order. It remains the case for small things - to deal with the second half of the problem.
248 comments
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  1. +6
    6 August 2023 05: 12
    Interesting article. A general overview of the problem, although without any special details, as well as ways to solve it by the state. Thanks to the author. However, I believe that our state will fail everything it touches.
    1. +24
      6 August 2023 05: 38
      Quote: Alexander1971
      However, I believe that our state will fail everything it touches.

      Rather, not a state, but a Russian capitalist working with an eye to the West.
      1. +41
        6 August 2023 07: 04
        The Russian capitalists have a big problem, their "toad is strangling". It is time for the government to realize that the sphere of activity of Russian private business is the production of consumer goods, and not the production of means of production. It just doesn't hurt the government to refresh its memory in such disciplines as social science and political economy. Everything about it is written there. In Russia, the rise of the main industries is just the business of the state, and it also does not interfere with dealing with our oligarchs exploiting natural rent. Practice has shown that the oligarchs are engaged in the withdrawal of funds abroad, races so, then goodbye.
        1. +25
          6 August 2023 10: 00
          Russian capitalists have a big problem, their "toad is strangling"

          All these large, as you said, "capitalists" are all one way or another advertised with the state. There are no "left" people, so they all take them out. Independent private capital that can competently work there for a cannon shot will not be allowed in, everywhere "their" guys, but how they work is the tenth thing. So the result will be the same capitalist there will be (his own) or the state, these are the same people, only the masks are different hi
          1. +17
            6 August 2023 10: 39
            42 percent of industrial enterprises experience a shortage of workers. The Kronstadt company, a well-known manufacturer of drones, cannot find workers in nine specialties at once, among which the key ones are a commissioning and testing engineer, a process engineer, an aircraft assembly fitter and an aircraft electrical equipment installer. Hence the question - where to get workers for future factories for the production of microchips?
            Try to take in quantity, for example, replace one technologist with 10 lawyers + 10 economists, strengthen this bundle with a dozen managers ... in vain, or what have they spawned so much?
            In addition to sarcasm and bile, there is nothing .... How long does it take now for the necessary specialties to receive the same respect in our country as in the USSR? Very effectively, such a powerful country was destroyed and thrown back for at least half a century, if not further. And this is true, after all, we have been using the developments of the USSR for 30 years.
            1. -1
              6 August 2023 11: 53
              Quote: NIKNN
              42 percent of industrial enterprises experience a shortage of workers. The Kronstadt company, a well-known manufacturer of drones, cannot find workers in nine specialties at once, among which the key ones are a commissioning and testing engineer, a process engineer, an aircraft assembly fitter and an aircraft electrical equipment installer. Hence the question - where to get workers for future factories for the production of microchips?
              Try to take in quantity, for example, replace one technologist with 10 lawyers + 10 economists, strengthen this bundle with a dozen managers ... in vain, or what have they spawned so much?
              In addition to sarcasm and bile, there is nothing .... How long does it take now for the necessary specialties to receive the same respect in our country as in the USSR? Very effectively, such a powerful country was destroyed and thrown back for at least half a century, if not further. And this is true, after all, we have been using the developments of the USSR for 30 years.

              Not at all, because it's useless already. As an electronics engineer I say. In my former technical school, apart from system administrators, accountants, there is nothing else instead of ACS, RAS, EVT, etc.
              "in India they could not find highly qualified personnel for production"
              no wonder
              1. +8
                6 August 2023 14: 50
                You greatly underestimate India. They add not only in population growth.
              2. +6
                6 August 2023 18: 41
                Quote: Andrey Dibrov
                "in India they could not find highly qualified personnel for production"
                no wonder

                Not surprising. Indian (Pakistani) personnel, as they achieve the proper qualifications, "at the speed of a bullet" migrate from the country to more "promised" places. What seems to be waiting for us request
                1. +2
                  6 August 2023 22: 46
                  Quote: Adrey
                  Not surprising. Indian (Pakistani) personnel, as they achieve the proper qualifications, "at the speed of a bullet" migrate from the country to more "promised" places. What seems to be waiting for us

                  In the US, in the aviation industry, according to the great mathematician Arnold, all calculations are carried out by the Chinese and Russians. Although it is believed that in India, university graduates receive more knowledge than in any country in the world. The British believe that an applicant who has passed the entrance exam to a prestigious Indian university in terms of knowledge corresponds to a British student who has studied at the University of Oxford or Cambridge for the first year. Of course, and successfully passed all the exams for the first year. Even the first European travelers explained the backwardness of India by the low wages in India.
                  1. +8
                    7 August 2023 06: 23
                    The liberals who seized power 30 years ago have been destroying science and production of the once great country for 30 years, and for some reason they think that restoring everything is as easy as destroying it. And who will restore? Manturov and Chemezov, who can't get drunk? Maybe the oligarch Deripaska, who stole an aircraft factory in Samara? And how many new planes were built by the Samara aircraft factory, once the largest in Europe under the leadership of Deripaska?

                    In order for our country to start developing, we first need a complete change of power, a change in the oligarchic system and a change in the entire elite, with the confiscation of all property from the oligarchs and officials, the nationalization of industries and largest enterprises, the coming to power of people capable of creating an efficient system.

                    And the current leaders can only chat and nag, nag and chat and not answer for anything. Only very naive people can hope that Manturov and Chemezov will create something.
                    1. -4
                      7 August 2023 10: 36
                      During my life I have experienced many revolutions in Russia. The first death of Brezhnev, and then Chernenko, Andropov. Gorbach with his perestroika. Then Yeltsen and the complete collapse of the USSR, shooting at the parliament in Moscow and a tank battle in the center of Moscow. Wars in Chechnya. The arrival of Putin, the arrival of Medvedev, again Putin, but in Russia there is a revolution and a change of power without end. So Russia will not.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                2. +3
                  8 August 2023 03: 53
                  There is an opportunity to reduce the number of specialists who left abroad. Those who studied at the university at the budget department should be required by law to reimburse the full cost of education at the university if they wish to leave to work in another country.
                  1. -1
                    13 August 2023 01: 47
                    Quote: cast iron
                    There is an opportunity to reduce the number of specialists who left abroad. Those who studied at the university at the budget department should be required by law to reimburse the full cost of education at the university if they wish to leave to work in another country.

                    We need to take the example of the United States in this matter. To arrange training at the expense of the budget in the form of a loan. When working out in a specialty - money is gradually written off, if not - let them pay. Well, in the meantime, there is a duty - not to let him out of the country.
              3. +4
                7 August 2023 09: 54
                Likewise. In 4 years, my son should enter a technical school. I decided to look at my Alma Mater - there was nothing left of the former St. Petersburg Radio Polytechnic. Cooks, tourists, other garbage. Hulls resold, no engineer needed. There is no question of any teaching of 10+ subjects in the adversary language.
            2. +1
              7 August 2023 05: 23
              It is necessary to take not in quantity, but to train on the ground
          2. -1
            6 August 2023 15: 40
            what kind of distant commentators are here - just to indulge
            businesses do not invest their money - in general, 13% of dividends have already been paid to the budget
            especially your salary from which 28% was paid to the budget, you need to save
            for targeted programs, loans are taken from banks where 80% is provided by the entrepreneurship support fund
            open a company for yourself, and how you become a large taxpayer then talk
            * large business is a revenue of more than 2 billion rubles per year (10 Federal Tax Service of Moscow)
          3. 0
            12 August 2023 16: 18
            advertised with the state

            maybe affiliated... :)
        2. +4
          7 August 2023 12: 41
          Quote: 2112vda
          It just doesn't hurt the government to refresh its memory in such disciplines as social science and political economy.

          Remind you what Chubais led before his escape to the west? Chubais fled the office remained.
          So the state is just doing all this, regularly allocating billions to the very structure that skillfully managed all these billions about ****.
          Quite a state office for cutting the dough.
          Rosnano is the name of this circuit, it is 100% owned by the Federal Property Management Agency. Do you know how much they have done in 20 years? How much public money did you get?
        3. +7
          7 August 2023 12: 54
          2112vda. Apparently, many do not understand why the USSR was collapsed and feudal Russia was created. Feudal lords never get drunk. Even crocodiles eat as much as is not harmful, the rest is hidden. And these people hide for themselves and constantly eat up what is for normal people.
      2. +10
        6 August 2023 07: 30
        Capitalist is very loud. Even too much.

        Everything will fail the morals of our blessed society, which gives rise only to such "capitalists" .... These are clearly not Henry Fords ...

        These are those who, even in a car service, will never think of organizing good tools and issuing uniforms for workers.
        What the hell are the chips...!!

        A society in which traditionally "authority" is a bandit, and the word "intellectual" - a curse - has long died, like a nation. Only individual people remained, who, apart from money and the Russian language, are not connected by anything ......
      3. +20
        6 August 2023 07: 54
        Rather, not a state, but a Russian capitalist working with an eye to the West.


        Unclear.
        Do you think that the state is one thing, and the capitalists existing in this state is another?
        You are very mistaken.
        In the capitalist State of Russia, the state apparatus (officials) always promote and protect the interests of the Russian capitalist.
        1. +3
          6 August 2023 19: 10
          Quote: AA17
          In the capitalist State of Russia, the state apparatus (officials) always promote and protect the interests of the Russian capitalist.

          Where did you see capitalism in Russia, dare I ask?
          In simple terms, the capitalist state (system), the system of state administration, where the rights to the means of production belong to big capital (we are talking about it now), guaranteed by the right of ownership and, accordingly, are protected by proteges in the form of the state apparatus (authorities, officials, laws adopted by them - that is, the state machine). In this scheme, at the top of the "food pyramid" is big business (oligarchs, TNCs), below the bodies supporting this state of affairs (the state).
          In our situation, we have a large number statemonopolies, which own both the means of production and the natural resources transferred to them by the state for use. Even more we (if we dig) will see less significant, but large (strategic) structures (JSC, LLC, holdings), where the state's share will have at least a blocking stake, more than 51% of the shares. So who is primary and who is secondary?
          For clarity, I will give one example. Everyone remembers the "seven bankers" of the XNUMXs, and where are those people now? and who owns their former assets? For some reason, Berezovsky completely "impoverished" and hanged himself on a tie in the bathroom in his "Londonburg" (apparently from remorse), breaking a couple of fingers in the process. Hodor tried to go into power (the state), and where is he now after his release (although it doesn’t matter at all), and who owns his rather big company?
          So, in my opinion, one should not underestimate the capabilities of our State and overestimate the influence of big capital on it. And what is our system - decide for yourselflaughing request hi
          1. +5
            6 August 2023 22: 07
            Where did you see capitalism in Russia, dare I ask?


            Capitalism is the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie (financial, industrial, raw materials, construction, etc.)
            I will answer you with the words of David Rockefeller:
            "..."Gentlemen, I am a very busy person. I have no time to talk and argue on stupid topics. I know what the dictatorship of the proletariat is, why don't you know what the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie is? You have disappointed me, gentlemen..."
            https://regnum.ru/article/3586031



            “If the state is not a dictatorship of the proletariat, then it is a dictatorship of managers, state property is de facto the property of administrative officials, that is, the collective private property of the nomenklatura.
            The result was state-monopoly capitalism, the dictatorship of the nomenklatura bourgeoisie..." (c)
          2. +5
            8 August 2023 04: 02
            Look, stop talking already. Capitalism has many forms, but the core is the same for all. The fact that officials in Russia are the most important capitalists, dictating the will of the people, does not negate the fact that capitalism is in Russia. And stop talking nonsense about the fact that somewhere there is correct capitalism or capitalism with a human face. It doesn't exist and never has. There will be no human face. Don't deceive yourself.
          3. +1
            8 August 2023 05: 19
            Russian capitalism is now one of the closest to "ideal capitalism".
            Much closer to semi-communism in Europe or semi-dictatorship in the United States.
          4. +1
            9 August 2023 08: 29
            So the leadership of Russia is the main feudal lords. Medvedev is who we are, a major agro industrialist. And there are many like him.
          5. -1
            11 August 2023 23: 45
            Where did you see capitalism in Russia, dare I ask?

            Not really! Capitalism in Russia!!! However, this is an underdeveloped and unfinished capitalism.
      4. +12
        6 August 2023 08: 09
        Quote: carpenter
        Rather, not a state, but a Russian capitalist working with an eye to the West

        The state has long grown together with these capitalists, and works in their interests. And the main problem is that "our" capitalists do not identify themselves with Russia and the Russian people. The Soviet legacy is being chewed up, without any investment in the development of industry. Of course, someone can argue, but you can’t hide the realities. Otherwise, we would not depend almost entirely on imports.
        1. 0
          6 August 2023 11: 57
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Quote: carpenter
          Rather, not a state, but a Russian capitalist working with an eye to the West

          The state has long grown together with these capitalists, and works in their interests. And the main problem is that "our" capitalists do not identify themselves with Russia and the Russian people. The Soviet legacy is being chewed up, without any investment in the development of industry. Of course, someone can argue, but you can’t hide the realities. Otherwise, we would not depend almost entirely on imports.

          In principle, it has already finished chewing.
          That's why a hundred bucks and the currency is all in there, which, apparently, for a triple overprice, those polymer pumps have to be smuggled here - until everything finally got up.
      5. +13
        6 August 2023 16: 08
        Quote: carpenter
        Rather, not a state, but a Russian capitalist working with an eye to the West.

        If the Russian capitalist really worked with an eye to the West, or rather to the Western example, there would be more benefits.
        But the Russian capitalist, unlike the Western one, is afraid of long-term investments, and wants a lot of profit at once.
        In the West, it is considered normal to invest in projects with a payback of 10-20-30 years, and with an annual income of 3-4% (not to be confused with stock exchange growth).
        And the Russian capitalist wants 30% profit with a payback in the first couple of years (at best). Hence the distortion in the economy, with the dominance of "effective managers", everyone wants to cut down quick money.
        But the "quick money" market is not bottomless, having skimmed off the cream, you need to dig deeper, and almost no one wants (and cannot) do this without a carrot and a stick from the state.
        And it's not even about greed or mentality, but about the banal lack of investment professionalism, there are no strong specialists capable of building long-term strategies, and there is no school of such specialists.
        The second problem is corruption and nepotism, in which control over capital is obtained not by those who can develop it most effectively, but by mediocrities with connections. And these mediocrities, sitting on this money, simply do not know how to use it. Their mind is only enough to poke them in egg-pods, like forty sparkles.

        If we have already embarked on the rails of capitalism, then it would be time to outgrow the stage of the "wild west" after 30 years and grow up.
        But without a total and brutal cleansing of the country from corruption and protectionism, this is an unrealizable dream. Without it, Russia will not have its own Masks, Gatets, Jobs, Brinns and other progressors. There will not even be competent accumulators of the country's GDP, such as the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers.
        There will be only economic mediocrities like Abramovich or Potanin, who cannot see beyond the nose of their yacht.
        Corruption is like cancer - it will kill any organism. Protectionism is like a swamp - it will drown any prospect.
        For the effective development of the economy, the corruption component should not exceed 2-3% of the country's GDP.
        1. +6
          6 August 2023 16: 48
          Quote: And Us Rat
          If we have already embarked on the rails of capitalism, then it would be time to outgrow the stage of the "wild west" after 30 years and grow up.
          But without a total and brutal cleansing of the country from corruption and protectionism, this is an unrealizable dream. Without it, Russia will not have its own Masks, Gatets, Jobs, Brinns and other progressors. There will not even be competent accumulators of the country's GDP, such as the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers.
          There will be only economic mediocrities like Abramovich or Potanin, who cannot see beyond the nose of their yacht.
          Corruption is like cancer - it will kill any organism. Protectionism is like a swamp - it will drown any prospect.

          I put a plus, although of course the picture is on top. And this conversation about corruption is all empty talk in the sense that corruption is generally inseparable from capitalism, firstly, and secondly, corruption is not a cause, but a consequence of a bunch of different factors. And what happened to Israel will not work for Russia simply because Russia is quite satisfied with the world and such as it is, because it does not destroy the non-equivalent exchange system that is beneficial to the capital of the countries of the first world.
          1. +5
            7 August 2023 02: 53
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            in the sense that corruption is generally inseparable from capitalism

            Corruption is inseparable from humanity in principle, the system does not matter. You just need to be able to keep it within certain limits so that it does not grow.

            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            corruption is not a cause, but a consequence of a bunch of different factors

            It doesn't change its effects. It is like a leak in the side of a ship, as long as it is small and the pumps are good - everything is ok. And when it's big and the pumps are rusty, the ship sinks.
            In Africa, there are cadavers of countries that were devoured by corruption, although in the 70s they still functioned, now they are a zone of anarchy, torn apart by warlords.

            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            And what happened to Israel will not work for Russia simply because Russia is quite satisfied with the world and such as it is

            Not because of this, but because everyone thinks like you - "my hut is on the edge, nothing depends on me."
            Alas, the social self-consciousness of Russians remained in Tsarist Russia.
            And the "dictatorship of the proletariat" (or rather, the dictatorship of officials of the USSR) only stole the time allotted for the development of this self-consciousness from the people. And this is not a question of one generation. sad
            1. 0
              13 August 2023 19: 51
              Quote: And Us Rat
              Corruption is inseparable from humanity in principle, the system does not matter.

              It has. The system in which the basis of commodity-money relations is expected to be corrupt to the marrow.
              Quote: And Us Rat
              It doesn't change its effects. It is like a leak in the side of a ship, as long as it is small and the pumps are good - everything is ok. And when it's big and the pumps are rusty, the ship sinks.
              In Africa, there are cadavers of countries that were devoured by corruption, although in the 70s they still functioned, now they are a zone of anarchy, torn apart by warlords.

              This only proves what I was talking about. Corruption under capitalism can be driven into a very limited framework only with a combination of certain factors. What is obvious in capitalism does not always work out.
              Quote: And Us Rat
              Not because of this, but because everyone thinks like you - "my hut is on the edge, nothing depends on me."

              This is not the main reason.
              Quote: And Us Rat
              Alas, the social self-consciousness of Russians remained in Tsarist Russia.

              Partly. But there is still progress.
              Quote: And Us Rat
              And the "dictatorship of the proletariat" (or rather, the dictatorship of officials of the USSR) only stole the time allotted for the development of this self-consciousness from the people.

              The whole trouble is that the dictatorship of the proletariat quickly degenerated into the dictatorship of the party nomenklatura. But again, this is a consequence. The real dictatorship of the proletariat is an advance over these idealistic ravings about bourgeois democracy.
        2. 0
          28 September 2023 06: 58
          Quote: And Us Rat
          Quote: carpenter
          Rather, not a state, but a Russian capitalist working with an eye to the West.

          If the Russian capitalist really worked with an eye to the West, or rather to the Western example, there would be more benefits.
          But the Russian capitalist, unlike the Western one, is afraid of long-term investments, and wants a lot of profit at once.
          In the West, it is considered normal to invest in projects with a payback of 10-20-30 years, and with an annual income of 3-4% (not to be confused with stock exchange growth).
          And the Russian capitalist wants 30% profit with a payback in the first couple of years (at best). Hence the distortion in the economy, with the dominance of "effective managers", everyone wants to cut down quick money.
          But the "quick money" market is not bottomless, having skimmed off the cream, you need to dig deeper, and almost no one wants (and cannot) do this without a carrot and a stick from the state.
          And it's not even about greed or mentality, but about the banal lack of investment professionalism, there are no strong specialists capable of building long-term strategies, and there is no school of such specialists.
          The second problem is corruption and nepotism, in which control over capital is obtained not by those who can develop it most effectively, but by mediocrities with connections. And these mediocrities, sitting on this money, simply do not know how to use it. Their mind is only enough to poke them in egg-pods, like forty sparkles.

          If we have already embarked on the rails of capitalism, then it would be time to outgrow the stage of the "wild west" after 30 years and grow up.
          But without a total and brutal cleansing of the country from corruption and protectionism, this is an unrealizable dream. Without it, Russia will not have its own Masks, Gatets, Jobs, Brinns and other progressors. There will not even be competent accumulators of the country's GDP, such as the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers.
          There will be only economic mediocrities like Abramovich or Potanin, who cannot see beyond the nose of their yacht.

          The mentality of the Russian capitalist is based on the unpredictability of the state. No one will invest in long-term investments when we have wars, sanctions, isolation, and demonization of nationalities abroad. Literally, you don’t know what else the government will throw at you tomorrow. I want to quickly cut off my money and get away with it before it’s taken away.
          And this also affects demographics. Unpredictability, lack of stability and confidence in the future.
      6. AAK
        -1
        6 August 2023 19: 35
        This is because the Garant dances to the tune of "those who work with an eye to the West", and if every "Pinocchio" felt the chill of a pistol barrel on the back of his head and knew that the trigger would be pulled very simply, many things would be solved much faster and better .. .
        1. +2
          6 August 2023 22: 51
          Quote: AAK
          if every "Pinocchio" felt the chill of a pistol barrel on the back of his head and knew that the trigger would be pulled very simply, many things would be solved much faster and better ...

          The smartest pinocchios in this case would simply have fled from Russia, and not necessarily to the West, but possibly to Tajikistan or Afghanistan.
      7. +12
        6 August 2023 20: 04
        Quote: carpenter
        but a Russian capitalist working with an eye to the West.

        There is no looking back. How much are specialists of such qualifications paid, for example, in the USA? Something tells me that it's not 500 dollars a month, like we have. And if you "return" OUR specialists from there, then you need to give at least x2 of their current income. And the fact that they will return. For the return of specialists is an integrated approach. We have an MRI record six months ahead, and it seems that the queue is moving at the expense of those who did not wait. For money - it's easier, but the level of doctors leaves questions. Maybe it's time to forget the phrases "the best in the world", "having no analogues" and so on, and take as a basis the level of THEIR industries of the year 2005-2010 and strive for it? Until we reach it, and personnel will appear ... Although what am I talking about if we have a well-founded minimum wage?
        1. 0
          7 August 2023 02: 57
          Quote: Fast_mutant
          SMIC

          Even the word is some kind of lousy, minimum wage .... as if a hint that it is MRUT from him.
      8. +4
        6 August 2023 22: 06
        Rather, not a state, but a Russian capitalist working with an eye to the West.
        - you say that as if the Russian capitalist and the Russian state have nothing in common and are rigidly opposed to each other for insurmountable historical reasons ...
      9. +5
        7 August 2023 08: 26
        Quote: carpenter
        Quote: Alexander1971
        However, I believe that our state will fail everything it touches.

        Rather, not a state, but a Russian capitalist working with an eye to the West.

        Let's remind ourselves, who created the silicon factories that make zips for the whole world? They were, all of a sudden, American capitalists working for themselves. That is, their looking back was quite correct) At that time. Now they are rapidly degrading in all directions. Why? And think)
        And we? The USSR failed. Systematically did not cope at all. Why? Not looking back at what you need. As I have repeatedly written, the party allowed itself to rot, hoping that socialism would be built on its own. The semiconductor industry is the cutting edge of human technology. I'm sure Chubais was neighing as if undermined, orienting the leadership's efforts towards "nanotechnologies."
        The cutting edge implies that only and exclusively the best can stand on it. We had the best engineers ... we had. Now those who have not died of old age are working all over the world. For some reason, they did not want to trade cowards in the markets from stalls. The new ones can make beautiful computer presentations. There are no engineers among them since it became possible to buy the result of the exam. The Higher School does not work like that, that is, we do not have it, and for a long time.
        Well, the control link. Who has become the master of us? These are our best managers? Sorry, there will be no breakthrough semiconductors in the current conditions. Wherever the owners look...
      10. +3
        7 August 2023 18: 56
        working with an eye to the west.


        I’ll correct it a little: not to the west, but to my pocket.
        In the days of the USSR, a high-class turner received a little less per month than a factory director. And now they want to pay "one hundred rubles" and at the output the product is for a "yard", while half a yard is in their own pocket. And the hard worker, as mentioned above, "one hundred rubles." And a high-class worker cannot be trained in a year. This is not for you "Hey! Two from the casket, the same from the face! Do it for me ...".
        Cool cartoons used to be made. Not an eyebrow, but an eye.
    2. +22
      6 August 2023 11: 03
      Quote: Alexander1971
      an overview of the problem, although without any special details, as well as ways to solve it by the state.

      At the beginning of the hell, now referred to as a "change in the vector of development," I had a chance to visit Zelenograd, at a factory that produced semiconductor single crystals. I came there to buy equipment for nothing for an office that had just been set up. That ruin and desolation that reigned at the plant was terribly depressing. Since then, the plant has not risen. A little earlier, I worked at NIIKhIT (Saratov). The Institute was at the cutting edge of the development of chemical power sources: foam metals began to be made before the Japanese, and there were also lithium-thionyl chloride primary HITs that were crazy in terms of energy intensity, sodium sulfur batteries, ampoule primary and much more. And then it was all over, the world-famous specialist rummaged through the garbage heaps with whips, young scientists rushed to the sellers in commercial stalls to feed the children, the equipment was stolen or sent to scrap metal, tons of nickel from the warehouse floated somewhere ... NIIKhIT still has: collect some crap from imported elements.
      At the Faculty of Chemistry, at the native Saratov University, there used to be four doctors - now there are two dozen of them. They are stringing something there, putting a shadow on the wattle fence - and this is with beggarly funding, an antediluvian instrument base ... I have a classmate there, head. department: a tiny closet without windows instead of an office, cluttered and dirty, and he himself, a hard worker and a clever man who dreamed of working for the country, sits with dull eyes: his life has been wasted.
      What kind of problem solving are you talking about? For three decades, people have been brainwashed and, it must be said, they have become adept at this. Listen to our vitii, so Pugacheva and Galkin, and Isinbayeva are to blame for all our troubles. And who brought up the crowds of thieves who now live over the hill and pour mud on us? Who warmed Kozyrev, Kasyanov, Abramovich, who endowed Berezovsky with state powers, who cleared the electoral field and created an essentially one-party system?
      Until the end of the 19th century, there were two peoples in Russia, differing not only in their property status, but also in culture, and even in language: many nobles never spoke Russian. This stratification, impossible in any other country, was one of the reasons for the revolutions of 1905 and 1917. Now the situation is worse: the government has formed a family business to run the country. Why weren't Serdyukov and Vasilyeva imprisoned? Yes, because they are part of a family clan that can do anything. They, by the way, and now do not live in poverty. Why are capitals both exported and exported? Why is the rate of return in the construction industry often in excess of 100%? And by the way, because of this, it is impossible to solve the demographic problem: the same will give birth to children, knowing that for the sake of their housing they will have to plow for a mortgage bank all their lives?
      What the fuck, chips with 8 nanometer technology! Rogozin was put in charge of the space industry - and, firstly, he defended his doctoral thesis on a topic in which there was neither an ear nor a snout (at the same time showing that VAK is a rotten and corrupt office, sharpened by its own), and secondly, allegedly launched into space non-inertial "gravitsapu", having made the world laugh to the point of colic, thirdly, he started building insane structures. The same will happen with microelectronics. It's time for me to die, I can afford to be honest.
      1. +8
        6 August 2023 11: 32
        Rogozin was put in charge of the space industry - and, firstly, he defended his doctoral thesis on a topic in which there was neither an ear nor a snout (at the same time showing that VAK is a rotten and corrupt office, sharpened by its own)

        So after all, the "cold doctors" did not begin with Rogozin. This was quite a thing in the USSR, although not on such a scale. It is quite possible to recall the themes of doctoral and candidate works of our beau monde. There is something to laugh about, sorry, only the topic of Stepashin's candidate delivers ....
        But against the background of the certificate issued by Rospatent in, EMNIP, 2020 for, sorry, perpetual motion machine, this all doesn’t look a bit).
        And so - entirely and completely. You can say - PPKS)!. At the same time, I can note that this is happening not only with microelectronics. If not everywhere, then in the vast majority of different offices - for sure.
        1. +5
          6 August 2023 20: 46
          Quote: frog
          and against the background of the certificate issued by Rospatent in, EMNIP, 2020, for, sorry, perpetual motion machine, this all doesn’t look a bit).
          What does this have to do with WAC? Anything can be patented, this is a purely commercial business, because the patent holder pays, not Rospatent: the latter only receives money. But in Soviet times, such pretzels were impossible.
          1. +2
            6 August 2023 20: 56
            In general - none. If you don’t remember that since the eighteenth century, EMNIP, in the same France, projects of perpetual motion machines are not considered. A priori. With VAK - a similar case.
            If in Soviet times there were enough characters with .... funny topics, then now .... As they themselves quite rightly noted that at a time when they were at least somehow engaged in science, there were four doctors, but now - five times more. It’s not worth talking about how many times science has changed, obviously).
            1. +2
              7 August 2023 19: 48
              They also did not consider stones falling from the sky, since everyone knew that there was no heavenly firmament there and, accordingly, there was nowhere for stones to come from.
        2. +1
          8 August 2023 19: 36
          topics of doctoral and candidate works of our beau monde

          Under the USSR, doctoral degrees became more than just a degree, they began to denote some kind of analogue of a title of nobility, degrees became a status. And the nomenklatura began to seek these degrees at any cost.
      2. +9
        6 August 2023 11: 40
        As for specific names: without Serdyukov and Co. there would be no army reform, we would have remained with the army of the USSR, where the soldiers were engaged in all sorts of garbage instead of combat training. The first Chechen showed this well.
        As for Rogozin, when did the last rocket fall? I mean, when did we have our last emergency launch? Rogozin at least put things in order with the production of what was left of the USSR, well, they began to squeeze out reserves. "Soyuz 2.1b" is based on the legacy of the USSR, but a new control system was screwed to it. Pay attention to the enlarged nose fairing, the payload size has increased. And I still remember how the cosmonauts flew to Mir for 2 days, and now 3 hours, 2 orbits.
        And according to the article. Our microelectronics - 10% of the world. Average. That is, R&D costs in the final product will be 10 times more than theirs. Yes, you can save on the fact that we will not develop dead ends, but who knows which of the dead ends will be the next breakthrough?
        1. -4
          6 August 2023 18: 14
          Quote: Not the fighter
          As for specific names: without Serdyukov and Co. there would be no army reform, we would have remained with the army of the USSR, where the soldiers were engaged in all sorts of garbage instead of combat training. The first Chechen showed this well.

          And what does the last Ukrainian one show?
          Quote: Not the fighter
          As for Rogozin, when did the last rocket fall?

          Is this the rocket that was debugged to the last bolt back in the USSR? And what about the moon bases and other super projects from Ragozin? And what is the merit in creating the new Ragozin fairing? Did he give his money for this or maybe he designed it himself?
          1. +2
            6 August 2023 19: 29
            Let's remember the assault on Grozny. NOT A SINGLE subdivision of the whole was found, they were collected "from pine forest".
            Is this the rocket that was debugged to the last bolt back in the USSR?

            A historical fact - the upper stage (it seems, or the rocket itself) fell because the angular velocity sensor was put "upside down" during assembly. There was also an accident due to non-compliance with the production technology - another solder was used, due to the fact that the storekeeper went on vacation.
            And that's it, spell your last name correctly. RоGozin and not Rаgozin!!!
            1. +5
              6 August 2023 20: 42
              Quote: Not the fighter
              Let's remember the assault on Grozny.

              Let us recall the sunken cruiser Moscow, the regrouping from Izyum, and we abandon those whom "we do not abandon our own." The victorious abandonment of Kherson. Private security company Wagner and campaigns for the truth in Moscow. Positional battles and scandals with stupid frontal assaults. Mobilization scandals. Did I forget anything?
              Quote: Not the fighter
              A historical fact - the upper stage (it seems, or the rocket itself) fell because the angular velocity sensor was put "upside down" during assembly. There was also an accident due to non-compliance with the production technology - another solder was used, due to the fact that the storekeeper went on vacation.

              The historical fact is that at the same time Ragozin was very surprised at the salaries in the industry, while having worked there, as far as I remember, for several years. Which says a lot about him. This chatterbox is a populist and a wedding general. If anything was done in the industry, then not by them, but by real specialists. As well as with Serdyukov's reform.
          2. 0
            7 August 2023 22: 53
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            And what does the last Ukrainian one show?

            That it has been ten years since the general of non-serving troops, Shoigu, who replaced Serdyukov, compromised with the generals' corporation and, instead of preparing for the war, took up tactical show business and self-promotion.
        2. +10
          6 August 2023 21: 05
          Quote: Not the fighter
          the soldiers were doing all sorts of garbage instead of combat training. The first Chechen showed this well.

          Do you think that the First Chechen showed poor combat training of soldiers? And for me, this is how she showed the abomination of the then government, its betrayal. Who armed the militants, who gave them weapons that were not yet in the Soviet army? And by the way, are you sure that the current conscripts are entirely engaged in combat training? Nobody has ever seen them in combat. And what can be learned in a year? But the fact that Serdyukov destroyed the system of military education is a fact. And in the construction of generals' dachas, conscripts were also used under Serdyukov. And even hazing has not become obsolete.
      3. +1
        6 August 2023 16: 58
        Quote: astepanov
        Why is the rate of return in the construction industry often in excess of 100%? And by the way, because of this, it is impossible to solve the demographic problem: the same will give birth to children, knowing that for the sake of their housing they will have to plow for a mortgage bank all their lives?

        This is just one of a bunch of negative factors of the capitalist economy that hit the demographics.
        Quote: astepanov
        This stratification, impossible in any other country, was one of the reasons for the revolutions of 1905 and 1917.

        Quite possible. But in our country it is especially ugly due to the underdevelopment of capitalism and, in general, its peripheral position in relation to the core of developed capitalist countries. We just have it more and more convex. But if you read, listen to what is happening in the West, you can see that, in principle, everything is the same. Yes, the scenery is richer and people work not for one bowl of rice, but for three, but in fact everything is the same.
    3. +7
      6 August 2023 11: 05
      Quote: Alexander1971
      our state will fail everything it touches.

      If you want to live, you won't get so upset! (With)
      What, son, didn't your Poles help you? - how Eltsyn's managers, lawyers and economists and money-bags of traders did not help to pull the country out of the raw material hell of an appendage of the West.
      Now there is nowhere to retreat: behind is not even Moscow, behind is the abyss of cassation of the country into specific principalities, if we do not overcome the new technological revolution. For once, the Mishustin government is perfectly aware of this and is resisting with all possible strength in order to move the cart of the country's commodity-based economy into the production area ... The way is seen in the creation of training and production complexes directly at enterprises for the training of workers in scarce specialties, targeted recruitment of students to universities with mandatory work for at least 3-5 years in the specialty at the enterprise indicated after graduation in the distribution ... And of course, the RFP of the engineers and technicians should be "Western", and not soviet, as it is now. Plus service housing (and not crooks! As everywhere else) with the possibility of redemption into property after 5 years of working at the enterprise ...
      1. +5
        6 August 2023 11: 31
        targeted enrollment of students in universities


        Dear Alexander.
        I agree with you.
        But who to recruit?
        There are not enough applicants for state-funded places in regional technical universities.
        The problem is in school education. Students 'reluctant' to take the exams required to enter a technical university

        Shortage of first-year students: Russian universities in the regions announced an additional enrollment because not all budget-funded places are occupied, Kommersant reports....
        Moreover, most of the vacancies remained in engineering and technical areas. ...

        ... The problem of imbalances and small planning errors. We decided that we really need more specialists in engineering specialties, more technical ones, we don’t have enough of them in the labor market, but at the same time, the state made a lot of investments at the level of technical schools and colleges, where people get not only working specialties, but also largely technical, but over a shorter period. And at the same time, they did not take into account that young people themselves choose which exams to take. And many young people prefer to take social studies, history, Russian, a foreign language, but physics and specialized mathematics are unpopular. As a result, it turned out that during the planning process during the competition for universities, too many enrollment targets were allocated. So many that there are not enough eleventh-graders who choose physics and mathematics as the exam. And the second problem is that young people in the 506333st century are really less interested in technical and engineering specialties, because our society is no longer industrial, it is becoming more and more digital, and in fact humanistic...https://www.bfm.ru /news/XNUMX
        1. +5
          6 August 2023 14: 44
          Quote: AA17
          There are not enough applicants for state-funded places in regional technical universities.

          Yeah. As the neighbor said. He taught at the institute. "Well, tell me what kind of threaded connection is ...."
          The dude is silent...
          - The neighbor is stunned: "Listen, did you have a bicycle as a child?" - Well, yes, it was ...
          - How did you repair it?
          - And my dad repaired ...
          Paragraph...
          1. +4
            6 August 2023 23: 02
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            Yeah. As the neighbor said. He taught at the institute. "Well, tell me what kind of threaded connection is ...."
            The dude is silent...

            Was in Novosibirsk for adjustment. I was assigned an intern. I suggest that he read the instructions for the frequency converter and try to work with this device in different modes. His response: "I'm in practice. I'm not allowed to touch anything with my hands. I can only look." Will this person, after graduating from his university, not only create something new, but simply turn on a working machine?
      2. -2
        6 August 2023 17: 00
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        For once, the Mishustin government is perfectly aware of this and is resisting with all possible strength in order to move the cart of the country's commodity economy to the production area ...

        It’s not even funny, after Belousov’s statements that the ruble was somehow too strong for us at a time when he returned to 60 rubles per dollar.
    4. +1
      6 August 2023 16: 19
      .However, I believe that our state will fail everything it touches.

      Aren't you embarrassed to say that? Give the country a chance!
      1. +3
        8 August 2023 04: 19
        Aren't you ashamed to expect some kind of achievements from former black marketeers, speculators and simply traitors to the Soviet oath? They won't do anything right. For the meaning of life is in the accumulation of money and resources for your loved ones.
    5. 0
      6 August 2023 17: 25
      Quote: Alexander1971
      that our state will fail everything it touches.

      But how much money can be cut.
  2. +10
    6 August 2023 05: 22
    What we don’t appreciate, we lose, having lost by crying ... this is how you can evaluate what is described in the article by a respected author.
    I remember the times when the Berd Radio Plant, which produced many different radio components, was smashed in my area ... reforms and perestroika finished it off ... now you can’t restore what was destroyed ... everything needs to be developed anew.
    The author's optimism is commendable until another reformer comes to the Kremlin ... our future is vague and unstable ... let's wait and see. what
    1. -1
      6 August 2023 05: 52
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      The author's optimism is commendable until another reformer comes to the Kremlin ... our future is vague and unstable ... let's wait and see.

      The reformer Stalin came, eight years passed, he was cheated, all his reform was derailed. Gorbochev-Yeltsyn-Chubais came and the country went into the Middle Ages. Now is also such a time, with the difference that this process is much faster, i.e. go-el-chubiks will be back soon..
      1. +11
        6 August 2023 06: 39
        Quote: carpenter
        go-el-chubiks will be back soon..

        I hope Chubais will never return to our country again ...
        Now he's in London... smile writes scientific articles on how to rob the state correctly ... they say one article has already been published.
        I wish him, like Berezovsky, a soft towel around his neck.
        1. +10
          6 August 2023 07: 36
          Quote: Lech from Android.
          I wish him, like Berezovsky, a soft towel around his neck.

          Have you forgotten about Abramovich?
          Well, Friedman and Aven.
          You should not miss the guardians.)
      2. +7
        6 August 2023 08: 18
        Quote: carpenter

        The reformer Stalin came, eight years passed, he was cheated, all his reform was derailed. Gorbochev-Yeltsyn-Chubais came and the country went into the Middle Ages.

        What does "come" mean? It's like in the movie "Shouldn't we send a messenger?" ... Like the one that Stalin walked, walked and came to the Kremlin ....

        Millions of adults with childish minds, that's what the problem is ... A society with a level of development of the 17th century. One that cannot understand where social movements and political parties come from.

        Stalin did not "come" - this is the delirium of a madman. Stalin was the leader of the Bolshevik Party. But the Russian people of the 21st century are unable to understand THAT, because they are not capable of organizing anything except for organized criminal groups.

        Once everyone seemed to understand, but quickly returned to the 17th century ... Degradation is obvious ...
      3. +8
        6 August 2023 11: 25
        Quote: carpenter
        The reformer Stalin came, eight years passed, he was cheated, all his reform was derailed.

        "Turn the nut, otherwise it whistles!" (With)
        But "whistling" is not good! Stalin industrialized the USSR. Without this, we would not have won the war with all of Europe.
        And after the war, in 1953, he was going to shake up the "comrades" and carry out reforms in the administrative apparatus. I didn’t have time ... And then the bald and stupid, but cunning and obsequious people tried to turn everything to their advantage ... Then we quarreled with the PRC. Otherwise, the west would hiccup and look for the fifth corner ...
        However, these are all things of the past. The main thing now is not to get mad at the end. And everything goes to this. That's where the real ambush is!
        AHA.
        1. +1
          6 August 2023 16: 30
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          The main thing now is not to get mad at the end. And everything goes to this.

          I don't want to be a whore, but I'm afraid the Rubicon has already been crossed.
          I have been puzzling over this issue for years, and I don’t see an effective solution to the problem, only radical measures with a dubious result. I'm afraid this is the end of this culture.
          All empires are doomed to this sooner or later, but there is also an optimistic side, new cultures and civilizations flourish on the corpses of empires.
          1. -1
            6 August 2023 18: 20
            Quote: And Us Rat
            All empires are doomed to this sooner or later, but there is also an optimistic side, new cultures and civilizations flourish on the corpses of empires.

            So we don't have an empire. We have a federal state. Which by the way is more progressive than the unitary state of Israel.
            1. +1
              7 August 2023 03: 09
              Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
              So we don't have an empire. We have a federal state.

              Do not be modest, the history of Russia over the past 500 years, including the USSR, oozes with an imperial spirit, it has ingrained itself into culture tightly.
              You may not see this, but from the outside it is striking, this mixture of condescending patronizing arrogance towards other countries and peoples (even towards the PRC, which has long outgrown the Russian Federation by an order of magnitude), this mentality is exactly like that of the Americans, faith in their own superiority , the so-called "exclusivity".
              And this is felt at all levels, from foreign policy to everyday life.

              Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
              Which by the way is more progressive than the unitary state of Israel.

              An absolutely incorrect comparison, the scale imposes restrictions on the effectiveness of management tools. It's like in the army - to command a company or a division, is there a difference?
              1. -1
                14 August 2023 08: 22
                Quote: And Us Rat
                Do not be modest, the history of Russia over the past 500 years, including the USSR, oozes with an imperial spirit, it has ingrained itself into culture tightly.

                Nothing like this. With the same success it can be argued that Jewish nationalism and religiosity have firmly ingrained into Jewish culture. Which of course is not true. For being determines consciousness. And what was beneficial in the behavior model earlier today may be unprofitable or tritely unnecessary at all.
                Quote: And Us Rat
                An absolutely incorrect comparison, the scale imposes restrictions on the effectiveness of management tools. It's like in the army - to command a company or a division, is there a difference?

                It is quite correct for itself, because it is not about quantity, but about quality. The most successful state on the planet at the moment, the United States has a federal structure. Therefore, the same attempts to build a unitary state in Ukraine look like the ravings of a madman.
      4. -1
        7 August 2023 22: 57
        Tek-s. Stalin was cheated in 1956. 1956-8=1948.
    2. -5
      6 August 2023 06: 53
      If a new Premakov came, I would support him!
      But we have the irremovability of power and no one will stop. So everything will continue to develop towards degradation, negative growth and growth of pessimism in the country with the deterioration of demographics!
      1. +3
        6 August 2023 08: 25
        If a new Premakov came, I would support him!


        Oh well...
        To support one of the leading ideologists for the collapse and destruction of the USSR is strong.

        "The socialist system has become obsolete. We must move away from it and start living like in the West," Yevgeny Primakov said in 1974, recalls an EADaily interlocutor who has known the politician for over 40 years....
        “The socialist system has outlived itself. We must move away from it and start living like in the West,” Yevgeny Primakov said in 1974, recalls an EADaily source who has known the politician for over 40 years.
        The main acting figure who implemented Yuri Andropov's plan to destroy the Soviet Union was Yevgeny Primakov. This was stated in an interview with the EADaily agency by a well-known diplomat, senior official of the International Department of the Central Committee of the CPSU (1968-1988) Vyacheslav Matuzov. “Primakov's personality is conspiratorial to the limit to this day. I believe that he was the main actor who completed Andropov's plan for the reorganization of the Soviet Union. In simple terms, Primakov was in charge of the process - all these years, ”Matuzov is sure. According to him, Boris Yeltsin and Mikhail Gorbachev were "people of secondary importance"; “Gorbachev is a rag, a pawn, nothing at all”; “Andropov’s heirs were behind the collapse of the USSR”, “that is, the conditions for the transition from the system in which we lived to the Western model were created.” “It was the outer picture. And the real mechanism that controlled the entire process - before perestroika, perestroika and after perestroika, when all sorts of Austrian institutions were being formed, was tied to Primakov and other heirs of the Andropov plan ... These same forces created the Leningrad center, where they once transferred Major General Oleg Kalugin, who at PSU headed the department for the USA and Canada, and was also the head of foreign counterintelligence at PGU,” the Soviet diplomat believes, recalling that “the apparatus of the Central Committee cooperated very closely with the First Main Directorate (PGU) of the KGB”...
        Read more: https://realtribune.ru/news-news-1749

        "... According to Rockefeller, it was his conversations with Academicians Primakov and Arbatov that made changes in the USSR possible.
        Recognizing that “David Rockefeller tried to do a lot to develop relations between our countries,” Evgeny Maksimovich recalls how
        “during one of his trips to the USA” “this outstanding and charming person” invited the Soviet “group, including my wife and I” “to his ancestral home, the relaxed, warm atmosphere of which contributed to the advancement and agreement on the most complex international issues.”
        This was apparently followed by other, similar meetings, as a result of which, according to E. M. Primakov, “a kind of “laboratory” was created to analyze problems, some of which later found a solution at the official level”
        D. Rockefeller wrote what exactly
        The "Darmurt meetings tore down the barriers" between the two countries and "made" "possible" "changes" in the USSR.

        Looking ahead, we should pay attention to the following fact.
        After the events of September 11, 2001, it was decided to unite all US intelligence agencies into one institution, which in 2002 was named the Department of Homeland Security. On March 17, 2003, “Retired US Navy Head Al Martin” announced that the department had invited E. M. Primakov to serve as a consultant
        This fact gives reason to think that by 2002, E. M. Primakov was his own man for the American special services. \
        When and how he managed to win this trust remains to be seen. It can only be noted that he had developed a special relationship with the CIA by the autumn of 1993.
        https://alumni.mgimo.ru/page/adaptive/id331360/blog/3057452/?ssoRedirect=true
        1. -3
          6 August 2023 14: 36
          But he was a strong economist.
          And I can’t call what is happening in the economy other than a mess and a betrayal!
      2. +2
        6 August 2023 09: 52
        Quote: Sergey_Bely
        negative growth and growth pessimism

        belay good laughing good
  3. +26
    6 August 2023 05: 27
    Hence the question - where to get workers for future factories for the production of microchips?

    Any qualified workers must be adequately paid, and then there will be specialists and you will be happy. For miserable handouts, you can look for workers for a long time and come up with mountains of reasons. Everything in the world has long been invented and works, if it is really necessary.
    For China, I’m sure they can handle it themselves in the near future. I remember how they laughed at them in the 90s, and now we buy cars, electronics and consumer goods from them.
    1. +28
      6 August 2023 06: 04
      Quote: Stas
      Any skilled worker should be adequately paid

      Agree. The whining about the fact that the capitalists do not have enough specialists got it with its impenetrable stupidity. Pay more. And you will not end up! No narrow specialists? So grow. Make higher education completely free. It doesn't happen otherwise.

      1. +11
        6 August 2023 06: 33
        Agree. The whining about the fact that the capitalists do not have enough specialists got it with its impenetrable stupidity.

        I agree.
        But I must say that specialists from the mud do not spontaneously arise.
        They must be able to work with equipment (which we simply don’t have yet) and learn using equipment (which we also don’t have in institutes).
        Invite from abroad? Now?
        Send studying at MIT or BCIT at least? They will hang themselves sooner, they will send relatives and acquaintances.

        Well, you can drink Borjomi, the patient realized the need, but the kidneys are already ...
      2. -1
        6 August 2023 06: 47
        In order to pay a specialist (which must be done without fail), you need to grow up on the basis of your own scientific school, which does not exist.
        We do not have and did not have our own technology for building a Russian lithograph.
        And there is no technology for growing a pure silicon single crystal. And China will not sell it to us.
        Yes, and you need not to do a free higher school (although you need to increase the number of free places at times). It is vital to search for talent in specific areas and invest in talent development. And then, on the basis of these talents, develop laboratories!

        The only thing we could do now, after the blowing up of the Nord Streams, is the destruction of the ASM plant and laboratories under a false flag. This would be a very serious blow to the entire chip market and would slow down all countries. And possibly provoked the outbreak of hostilities in Taiwan, which distracted the United States from Ukraine.
        But we didn't. We are following the exact course indicated to us by China.
        I don't understand why we should do this. Especially if Shoigu goes to negotiate not with his older brother in China, but with his nephew in North Korea!
        1. +3
          6 August 2023 07: 18
          Quote: Sergey_Bely
          We do not have and did not have our own technology for building a Russian lithograph.

          Don't write any nonsense. There is nothing tricky in the lithograph. All technologies are clear. The question is in their implementation, the lack of experience among specialists. Not only are specialists needed to create a lithograph, they are also needed to operate it.
          1. +2
            6 August 2023 11: 11
            Quote: ism_ek
            There is nothing tricky in the lithograph.
            You don't even know how wrong you are.
          2. +6
            6 August 2023 11: 40
            Quote: ism_ek
            we need specialists to create a lithograph, we need more

            you're right, we still need the most accurate machining centers for production at the nanometer level and the highest class of accuracy ... But this is exactly what we don't have. And no one is going to sell the "tools" to us. You cannot make a "melkoskop" with an ax to shoe a flea.
            And the rest - everything is so, everything is so ... AHA.
            1. +4
              6 August 2023 21: 54
              Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
              at the nanometer level

              Smiled))) what should be done with such accuracy? Well, perhaps optics, mirrors for lasers.
              We do it, and we have the equipment, but of course we are not up to Carl Zeiss.
              An important characteristic of a lithograph is performance. Of course, we should not chase performance for the time being. Therefore, the chips will not be competitive in price. And here we must be prepared for the cries of the liberals.
        2. -3
          6 August 2023 11: 11
          Quote: Sergey_Bely
          And there is no technology for growing a pure silicon single crystal.
          It just is. Sapphires are grown only on the road.
          1. +2
            6 August 2023 14: 04
            Here is a quote from an article about a factory that was supposed to produce 28 nm processors:
            “The second problem, even more serious, is equipment, including lithographic machines. Now they are being said to be developed in Russia. But the components for such systems are all imported. Perhaps most of the components can be obtained in China. But if anything - something will be missed, then the production of lithographic machines will not begin.

            Next - resources for the production of chips. For example, photomasks, the production of which seems to be set up in Zelenograd. But they need imported glasses for them, a similar situation is with the resist. Silicon wafers are produced in the Russian Federation, but the ingots from which they are cut are imported, the cutting equipment is also imported, as well as consumables for it. At the moment, there are supplies for several months, but what to do next is not yet clear.

            Another problem is that a chip manufacturing plant requires support of hundreds of millions of rubles a year, and it does not matter whether something is produced there or not. Accordingly, the cost of production can be very high if small volumes of chips are produced. The higher the volume of production, the lower the prices. And if the domestic market can and will buy millions of Chinese chips (processors and GPUs) from China, then in the Russian Federation the market is smaller, so the cost of chips will be high in any case.
      3. -4
        6 August 2023 08: 02
        Quote: Stas157
        Agree. The whining about the fact that the capitalists do not have enough specialists got it with its impenetrable stupidity. Pay more. And you will not end up!

        At ZIL in the USSR they paid well - but Muscovites still did not want to work hard with their hands and they had to import the "limit". This is a historical fact...
        A high salary does not guarantee the availability of specialists - alas ...
        And yet - high salaries increase the cost of production even in the USSR, what can we discuss under capitalism
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. -4
            6 August 2023 08: 48
            Quote: mordvin xnumx
            Quote: your1970
            At ZIL in the USSR they paid well - but Muscovites still did not want to work hard with their hands and they had to import the "limit". This is a historical fact...

            You already got yours

            Refute ...
            If you can.....
            Zp small paid on ZIL?
            Was there a limit?
            Did Muscovites choke in queues at the ZIL personnel department?
            1. +3
              6 August 2023 11: 01
              Quote: your1970
              Zp small paid on ZIL?

              300 rubles in the USSR.
              Not at ZIL, at the branch.
              Here ... I repaired all these cars.
              1. 0
                6 August 2023 13: 17
                Quote: mordvin xnumx
                Quote: your1970
                Zp small paid on ZIL?

                300 rubles in the USSR.
                Not at ZIL, at the branch.
                Here ... I repaired all these cars.

                That is, you confirm that the salary was large? But at the same time, even in your suburbs, this salary was not particularly broken and there was a "limit"?
                That is, NOT everything rests on the salary as the opponent claimed
                Quote: Stas157
                Pay more. And you will not end up!

                They paid a lot, but there weren’t many who wanted to ....
                1. +1
                  6 August 2023 13: 32
                  The salary was great.
                  What do you mean not broken? Well, for example, my neighbor did not like to cut the thread, he went to the police station.
                  Quote: your1970
                  They paid a lot, but there weren’t many who wanted to ....

                  Was. Still how it was ... Our foreman, for example, told how he got to the plant. "I'm sitting, drinking beer, I hear the locksmith quitting on his own. I put my hands on my feet and forward. And who sent you? Potapov. Well, okay ..."
                  They even broke into our plant.
                2. +1
                  6 August 2023 15: 12
                  And here I do not agree that they paid a lot. The salary can be considered decent if it allows you to buy a car in a year. Such a patch is regarded as an average. There is such a speculative approach to income assessment. Then it turns out that with a salary of 350 rubles, a car of the VAZ-2106 type, at a price of about 6700 rubles, could be purchased at best in two years.
                  But when my salary in the 2000s was 20-25 thousand, this was just enough to buy a front-wheel drive VAZ in one year.
        2. The comment was deleted.
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            1. +5
              6 August 2023 09: 17
              Quote: your1970
              Pushing the slogans "for socialism!!" - an indicator of the right thoughts?

              Pushing slogans for logic - that's the indicator. You constantly get involved in disputes with critics of the current system, and your main argument is that it was worse with the scoop. You forget that there is such a thing as progress, and each next generation lives better than the previous one. This is a priori. In the 50s life was better than in the 40s, in the 70s it was better than in the 60s. But in 91, the process went back, despite all the goodies of scientific and technological progress.
              Is it because the same people (or their children) who participated in the collapse of the USSR are now at the helm of the country?
              There is no need to deny the obvious, no one argues that there were shortcomings in the Union. But then again, everything is known in comparison.
              1. 0
                6 August 2023 09: 48
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                your main argument is that it was worse when scooping

                Again...
                I'm not talking about what was worse - I'm talking about what the system ruined itself. Automatically...
                Any plus system immediately turned into a giant minus- out depending on the circumstances. I can give you mountains of examples from life with a negative result for any plus ... mountains ..
                Any achievement was immediately filthy at an accelerated pace, then polished by a universal irresponsibility and voila....
                And this led to the collapse of the USSR. Moreover, it was doomed already in the 1970s - when it became unprofitable to be the boss in production and be responsible for something ...
                And irresponsibility in the army led to Rust, who clearly showed that the system had already rotted to zero ... He was supposed to burn out on the ground a couple of hundred kilometers from the border, and he sat down on Red Square and the whole country saw that we no longer had an army. herd in uniforms...it hurt...
                1. 0
                  6 August 2023 10: 42
                  Quote: your1970
                  the system ruined itself. Automatically...

                  The system was ruined, deliberately.
                  Quote: your1970
                  when it became unprofitable to be the head of production and be responsible for something ...

                  Oh how? belay Seriously?
                  Quote: your1970
                  There is a herd in uniforms...it was painful...

                  Better now? Can you honestly answer? Better?
                  1. +4
                    6 August 2023 13: 57
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    The system was ruined, deliberately.

                    The system ruined itself - intent in such a matter implies the presence organized groups of people.
                    And when a worker steals at work because "You are not a guest at work - at least take away a nail" or "Everything around is popular - everything around is nobody's" - this is not intent - this system is inoperable.
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Quote: your1970
                    when it became unprofitable to be the head of production and be responsible for something ...
                    Oh how? Seriously?
                    -completely.
                    You apparently immediately thought about the ministers belay - no, I'm talking about engineering and technical personnel 120 rubles and bosses 200 rubles
                    Didn’t you know that the salaries of engineers and small bosses were extremely small?? Father, being the head of the PMC and being responsible for 160 horses with eggs, received 205 - they are 600. And at the same time, he couldn’t even drive drunks, woodpeckers and khanuriks out of work. "We need to re-educate!!! So what if the drunks drowned the tractor!!! Re-educate as a team!!"
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Quote: your1970
                    There is a herd in uniforms...it was painful...
                    Better now? Can you honestly answer? Better?

                    I can’t answer honestly - I don’t know. I don’t have complete information - I haven’t served in the army for a long time and there are no friends left.
                    The fact that according to external signs it seems to be not very good, yes. The fact that, according to the canons of the SA, they were engaged in stepping and painting curbs instead of shooting and working with equipment is a fact, our show is everything.
                    Let's see the results
                    1. +1
                      6 August 2023 15: 10
                      Quote: your1970
                      I can’t answer honestly - I don’t know. I don’t have complete information - I haven’t served in the army for a long time and there are no friends left.

                      For me, the answer is significant. Evasive streamlining, an attempt not to call black black and white white. Everything is now clear and understandable, visible to everyone. But you are missing information. laughing
                      According to the poor bosses - why didn’t your father go as a hard worker for 600 rubles, but preferred to vegetate in the place of the boss? Along the way, suffering from humiliation and helplessness in front of drunks and hanuriks? wink
                      PS On the topic of the state of the army, Strelkov expressed himself well and objectively, but he was also imprisoned.
                      1. +1
                        6 August 2023 16: 29
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        For me, the answer is significant. Evasive streamlining, an attempt not to call black black and white white. Everything is now clear and understandable visible to everyone. But you are missing information.

                        well, judging by the available Now(!!!!!!) information - NGSH KA Zhukov G.K deserved to be shot on the spot without trial or investigation - as a traitor to the Motherland already by the time of the surrender of Minsk (by the beginning of July 1941). Later, repeatedly during the war, he committed actions that entailed heavy damage to the spacecraft.
                        Not any kind of shelupon like Pavlov - but a former NGSh man and obliged to plan everything.
                        He personally writes in his memoirs that "... yes, it was hard, but we were just learning" - that is, he himself admits that his qualifications were much lower the required level for NGSH.
                        Objectively? And how....

                        Does this mean that Zhukov traitor and pest?Doesn't mean absolutely!

                        We will have full knowledge of what is happening in 20 years, not earlier .. Then it will be possible me to judge what was happening, because there were no colleagues whom I could trust in the army. Now we see, God forbid, 1/10 share ..

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        PS On the topic of the state of the army, Strelkov expressed himself well and objectively, but he was also imprisoned.

                        I don’t trust a single military correspondent / military blogger - too many politicized lies

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        According to the poor bosses - why didn’t your father go as a hard worker for 600 rubles, but preferred to vegetate in the place of the boss? Along the way, suffering from humiliation and helplessness in front of drunks and hanuriks?
                        And he was a stubborn communist. Well, that's it .. said the party "Need" - became the head of the department, said "Need" - became the head.
                        The problem of the USSR was also that he is an absolutely honest person who never took a ruble for himself - was forced by the System to deceive the System.
                        For example, it was necessary to build houses for young professionals. His team built a two-apartment house for a year and a half belay - the Armenians built the coven workers in a month. A brigade arrived, brought a dozen work books, registered everyone as if they were alive - four worked. nerves drip and complain, and the father will be persuaded for a year as badly related to specialists
                        After the failed Turn of the Rivers - since it was necessary to put the equipment bought for currency somewhere - my father was given a bulldozer "Caterpillar" - "Chuvash" next to it is small lol was. And the plan was cut - more (but what about !!), and currencies for spare parts NOT singled out. And every time the "Reptile" broke down - the father was flogged like a slop dog. And he had to lure at some plant in Saratov machine operators-turners and millers. Only here is a problem - they wanted more salary, and the machine operators received a little from him. And again, a leftist and 3 salary for 2x.
                        According to all articles and canons - a thief, but in fact - an honest man.
                        The system forced itself to deceive itself and devoured itself.
                      2. -1
                        6 August 2023 17: 21
                        Quote: your1970
                        NGSH KA G.K. Zhukov deserved to be shot on the spot without trial or investigation - as a traitor to the Motherland

                        Wow, well done! fellow Only with whom are you comparing Zhukov now? With Shoigu, Gerasimov, or that zampotyl who blurred one and a half lyama of Ratnik's kits?
                        Quote: your1970
                        I don’t believe a single military correspondent / military blogger - there are too many politicized lies

                        Konashenkov is everything to you? wassat
                        Quote: your1970
                        the party said "Need" - became the head guard, said "Need" - became the head.

                        I am amazed at the level of your hypocrisy. I could still assume naivety, but I have known you for a long time.
                        They always tried to become the boss, but to listen to you, so they went from under the stick.
                        And for some reason you always discuss the shortcomings of the sunset (regression) of the Union.
                        But then again, even during the regression of the economy, the USSR was much more efficient than the current system of power. Now it is not regression, but total degradation.
                        And here is the paradox - the people directly involved in the collapse of the USSR are responsible for this. Heads of district committees, regional committees, civil servants in the highest leadership positions of the USSR. They are in power today, or their children.
                        PS I repeat the proposal I made above - do you want to argue by comparing the effectiveness of the economic systems of the Russian Federation and the USSR? Compare the attitude and concern for citizens? Not?
                      3. -1
                        6 August 2023 21: 14
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Wow young man! Only with whom are you comparing Zhukov now? With Shoigu, Gerasimov,
                        - who from of three named in 10 days had 200 total losses, and at the same time Minsk also lost ???

                        Moreover, the Soviet Information Bureau (then "Konashenkov") modestly blurred this fact ...
                        They have it now, as then with Zhukov, the factor of uncertainty also works
                        God forbid believing officialdom, but Koneshenkov, against the backdrop of the Sovinformburo, is a rabid truth-teller. According to reports from the Soviet Information Bureau, the Germans ran out of tanks after a week of the war completely (to zero !!) - the current one is lying 2-3 times a day.

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        I am amazed at the level of your hypocrisy. I could still assume naivety, but I have known you for a long time.
                        - if you have children, then you know perfectly well that it is impossible to hide anything from the children in the family. My father often discussed work issues with my mother, I often went to work with him.

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        And for some reason you always discuss the shortcomings of the sunset (regression) of the Union.
                        - I discuss what I found, saw, touched.For example, I don’t know what pushed the population so hard in the monetary reform of 1961 that later 7 years old(!!!) in 1968, in The Diamond Hand, Nikulin asks again:
                        - Naturally, you will have expenses ... Here, take it!
                        No, no, no, no, I'm on my own...
                        - Semyon Semenych, well, let's do it without amateur performances! Here is 500 rubles.
                        “New?!”


                        After the reform in 1997, you asked again in 2004 - "New ?!"Me not. Because for a long time that money has become familiar

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Compare the attitude and concern for citizens? Not?
                        -let's..
                        Red Army soldier KA - monetary allowance during the Second World War 16 rubles + doubling "for combat" = 32 ruble. A bottle of vodka - 100-150 rubles at the market, a bucket of potatoes - 400.
                        "A cash bonus was set in 1 thousand rubles to each soldier or commander for personally knocked out or set fire to an enemy tank with the help of individual means of combat (grenades and bottles of combustible mixture).
                        https://topwar.ru/27802-dengi-ot-stalina-sovetskaya-sistema-denezhnogo-voznagrazhdeniya-za-voennye-uspehi.html
                        1 tank = 2 buckets of potatoes +2 bottles of vodka for washing....
                        Well, here is the War, the enemy attacked, no questions ..

                        Afghanistan
                        Nobody attacked us.
                        d / d soldier SA - 12 checks of Vneshposyltorg. At the black rate 30-35-40 rubles. From 10 (until 1981) to 6 bottles of vodka. for 35 rubles

                        current times - volunteers, theft, "It all depends on the commander" and so on.
                        Something globally changed?
                        Yes, nifiga - as there was a mess under the USSR, so it has remained now.

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        want to argue by comparing the efficiency of the economic systems of the Russian Federation and the USSR?
                        - it will be possible to compare the effectiveness of systems only when the Russian Federation disintegrates. Then it will be objective.
                        And now we have the collapsed state of the USSR, which indicates its unviability.And you themselves confirm it
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        And here is the paradox - the people directly involved in the collapse of the USSR are responsible for this. Heads of district committees, regional committees, civil servants in the highest leadership positions of the USSR. They are in power today, or their children.
                        -if whole the state apparatus is ruining the country - this naturally indicates the unviability of the System.
                        Moreover, almost all socialist states, left without a freebie from the USSR, immediately collapsed. The only one is Cuba, but there is a special case ....
                      4. +1
                        6 August 2023 23: 17
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Only with whom are you comparing Zhukov now? With Shoigu, Gerasimov, or that zampotyl who blurred one and a half lyama of Ratnik's kits?

                        Read the memoirs of Goebbels. He wrote them for himself. According to him, the irretrievable losses of Germany on December 1, 1941 were 200 people. The irretrievable losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine as of August 000, 1 are approximately 2023 people, according to estimates of Afghans entering the Afghan embassy. So Gerasimov and Putin are more effective than Zhukov, Shaposhnikov and Stalin.
                      5. +4
                        6 August 2023 18: 06
                        Quote: your1970
                        The system forced to deceive itself and devoured itself
                        The defenders of the system of socialism that has sunk into oblivion probably understand the socio-economic system at the level of a clockwork toy: such a good car was, but a hooligan came and broke it. The fact that the system has nurtured and brought to the top not one or two "hooligans", but the whole ruling class (party and economic asset), interested in its destruction in order to capitalize their social position in society and transfer capital by inheritance, they don’t want to see or don’t can.
                      6. -4
                        6 August 2023 18: 09
                        Quote: Stanislav_Shishkin
                        do not want or cannot see

                        Is it the system's fault? Or are specific people to blame? wink
                      7. +4
                        6 August 2023 18: 44
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Is it the system's fault? Or are specific people to blame?
                        Specific people live in a specific system and cannot be free from it. The system has no fault at all, but there are defects in design, state building using the "scientific poke" method, etc.
                      8. 0
                        8 August 2023 12: 23
                        Quote: Stanislav_Shishkin
                        Specific people live in a specific system and cannot be free from it.

                        Accordingly, the current system, together with the capitalist system, is generally a complete bottom, right? wink
                  2. -3
                    6 August 2023 17: 49
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Better now? Can you honestly answer? Better?

                    Why are you arguing with him? This is a seasoned guardian demagogue. Give him a minus and let him prove to himself that the totalitarian scoop was worse than the current cannibalistic capitalist system. What is interesting to him is not fucking interesting to us. We feed him to the fifth point.
                    1. +2
                      6 August 2023 21: 24
                      Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                      Give him a minus and let him prove to himself that the totalitarian scoop was worse than the current cannibalistic capitalist system

                      Socialist (!!!!) China took dollars from the United States and supplied weapons for them to dushmans in Afghanistan - so that they would kill soldiers of the SA of the USSR.
                      The more smashed caravans - the more dough received socialist China from the United States.
                      Do not find it somewhat strange - when one socialist country helps to kill another soldier socialist countries and receives money for it from countries - a notorious enemy?!!!
                2. +3
                  6 August 2023 14: 43
                  I agree that the system ruined itself. And even at the training in the economics of production, they gave examples of how this was done. Even the teachers of the 80s did not hide and told everything as it was, they said that a country with such an attitude towards industry was going to collapse. There were almost the same unthinkable taxes as now, only a side view.
                  There was a turnover tax (30% if memory serves), almost the same VAT.
                  There were depreciation deductions, almost a tax on property, though they went into a certain general industrial pocket, but it was not known how they were distributed. And the modern tax on property and land does not go to the development of industry.
                  Under Gorbachev, there was also a fight against excessive working capital. In reality, it turned into a struggle with warehouse stocks and reserve capacities of the industry. Mukhin will not let you lie in his book "How good it is to be an engineer."
                  Echoes of that struggle could be observed even in the corridors of polyclinics, where under the polyethylene there was a bunch of equipment from warehouses. It was hard to even get through.
                  So they started ruining the industry a little earlier, even before 1991.
                  Under the slogans of a unified industrial policy and the fight against surplus working capital.
                  Yes, and the teacher of political economy was not shy, the old communist, he spoke like it is. So he said that collectivization was carried out, among other things, to facilitate industrialization. He said that a person should be "naked like a falcon", otherwise he would not work at the plant. The peasants had to be deprived of the opportunity to feed themselves from the land and sent to the construction sites of socialism. Then, before the war, it seemed like it was possible to justify this, but they didn’t roll back. The land was returned only in the 90s, when they no longer knew how to work on it on their own.
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      4. +7
        6 August 2023 08: 04
        Quote: Stas157
        Pay more. And you will not end up!

        What's the point? Sakhibzaddovna will immediately drop the ruble to 200 re / 1 (!) Dollar and tell about inflation which is “no”. And what will you do with these "millens", use instead of paper in the toilet? wink
        We already went through this in the 90s. Again in a circle?
        1. -2
          6 August 2023 23: 27
          Minus one wink
          Give me money, and then at least the grass does not grow? How are you different from those who milk you like ruminants? Your goals are the same - BUTT. wink
      5. +4
        6 August 2023 10: 16
        Quote: Stas157
        The whining about the fact that the capitalists do not have enough specialists got it with its impenetrable stupidity. Pay more. And you will not end up! No narrow specialists? So grow. Make higher education completely free. It doesn't happen otherwise.

        Higher education itself, a panacea for successful economic growth, is not is.If in 1989 11 percent of the population of Russia had higher education, and there were successes, today the total number of citizens who graduated from a higher educational institution is more than 31 percent, and the cat wept for success. VPN-2010 recorded more than 27,5 million people who graduated from the university. The socio-demographic survey of 2015 allowed the HSE to estimate the share of such people in Russia at 30,2% . Where are the achievements? With so many highly educated people should be ahead of the rest, but it turns out to be a turnaround? Where are the Kulibins, Tupolevs, Polikarpovs, Ilyushins, Korolevs, Keldyshs, and more can be listed? In 1948, I.S. Brook, together with the young scientist B.I. Rameev developed a project of a digital computer with rigid program control. Some time later, the State Committee of the Council of Ministers of the USSR for the introduction of advanced technology in the national economy issued I.S. Brook and B.I. Rameev copyright No. 10475 for the invention of a digital computer dated December 4, 1948. It was the first document in the history of our country concerning information technology. In 1950-1951, the country's first small digital electronic computer with the MI program stored in memory was created. The machine was equipped with 730 vacuum tubes. Launched into trial operation at the beginning of 1952, it turned out to be the only operating computer in Russia. Later, in 1968, Arseny Anatolyevich Gorokhov patented a personal computer in the USSR - eight years before Apple. The Vostok manned spacecraft, which was launched on April 12, 1961, became the first spacecraft in the world that allowed a man to fly into outer space. Obninsk NPP is the world's first nuclear power plant. And the list of achievements can be continued. What achievements can the Russian Federation boast of.? It is not clear if
        The most numerous direction in terms of the number of students is “engineering, technology and technical sciences”: 868 thousand people, a third of all Russian students
        , then where are the achievements in science and technology? Lawyers and economists already,
        332 thousand people study to become lawyers. In second place is the "economy": 274 thousand people.
        Where are so many? The further we live under the guidance of economists, GDP has PhD in Economics the worse? The question is - maybe something with higher education, not in the Russian Federation? Isn't that taught, or something else? Most likely, officials , the state breeds. After all, graduating from a university guarantees a pass into power. Tu is not up to achievements, in science, and even more so in economics. The main thing, before the pie, called budget, reach, is the goal.
        1. -2
          6 August 2023 13: 53
          Quote: Unknown
          Quote: Stas157
          The whining about the fact that the capitalists do not have enough specialists got it with its impenetrable stupidity. Pay more. And you will not end up! No narrow specialists? So grow. Make higher education completely free. It doesn't happen otherwise.

          Higher education itself, a panacea for successful economic growth, is not is.If in 1989 11 percent of the population of Russia had higher education, and there were successes, today the total number of citizens who graduated from a higher educational institution is more than 31 percent, and the cat wept for success. VPN-2010 recorded more than 27,5 million people who graduated from the university. The socio-demographic survey of 2015 allowed the HSE to estimate the share of such people in Russia at 30,2% . Where are the achievements? With so many highly educated people should be ahead of the rest, but it turns out to be a turnaround? Where are the Kulibins, Tupolevs, Polikarpovs, Ilyushins, Korolevs, Keldyshs, and more can be listed? In 1948, I.S. Brook, together with the young scientist B.I. Rameev developed a project of a digital computer with rigid program control. Some time later, the State Committee of the Council of Ministers of the USSR for the introduction of advanced technology in the national economy issued I.S. Brook and B.I. Rameev copyright No. 10475 for the invention of a digital computer dated December 4, 1948. It was the first document in the history of our country concerning information technology. In 1950-1951, the country's first small digital electronic computer with the MI program stored in memory was created. The machine was equipped with 730 vacuum tubes. Launched into trial operation at the beginning of 1952, it turned out to be the only operating computer in Russia. Later, in 1968, Arseny Anatolyevich Gorokhov patented a personal computer in the USSR - eight years before Apple. The Vostok manned spacecraft, which was launched on April 12, 1961, became the first spacecraft in the world that allowed a man to fly into outer space. Obninsk NPP is the world's first nuclear power plant. And the list of achievements can be continued. What achievements can the Russian Federation boast of.? It is not clear if
          The most numerous direction in terms of the number of students is “engineering, technology and technical sciences”: 868 thousand people, a third of all Russian students
          , then where are the achievements in science and technology? Lawyers and economists already,
          332 thousand people study to become lawyers. In second place is the "economy": 274 thousand people.
          Where are so many? The further we live under the guidance of economists, GDP has PhD in Economics the worse? The question is - maybe something with higher education, not in the Russian Federation? Isn't that taught, or something else? Most likely, officials , the state breeds. After all, graduating from a university guarantees a pass into power. Tu is not up to achievements, in science, and even more so in economics. The main thing, before the pie, called budget, reach, is the goal.

          Yeah ... when this candidate of economic sciences at the Valdai Forum, when asked why our gasoline is getting more expensive, he blurted out because oil is getting more expensive on the exchange, I almost fell off my chair.
          It seems that no one told this brilliant economist that Russia does not buy oil, but SELLS it.
    2. +6
      6 August 2023 08: 35
      Any qualified workers must be adequately paid, and then there will be specialists and you will be happy.


      Not everything is so clear and simple.
      Do you think that if a football player named Dzyuba is paid billions in fees for his game, then he will play football like an Argentine football player - Lionel Messi ???

      I agree: you need to pay a decent salary, besides that, you need a lot more.
      But the main trouble is that the industry is "ruled" by people who contributed to its destruction and degradation.

      How did a microelectronics plant sell for one ruble and what came of it?...
      https://regnum.ru/article/3668004

      1. +2
        6 August 2023 10: 38
        Do you think that if a football player named Dzyuba is paid billions in fees for his game, then he will play football like an Argentine football player - Lionel Messi ???
        Only if the salary is paid at the subsistence level, even "Dzyuba" will not appear, at best, a yard outsider.
        1. -1
          6 August 2023 10: 44
          pay at the subsistence level even "Dziuba" will not appear
          It will appear, and not even a dziuba, but a completely sensible and promising player. Only he will leave to play in England or at least Turkey at the first opportunity.
    3. -1
      6 August 2023 11: 09
      Quote: Stas
      Any skilled worker should be adequately paid
      Are you out of your mind?! That would be embarrassing for the managers! A new Porsche won't buy itself.
      Quote: Stas
      and then there will be specialists
      Will not be found. They simply do not exist, the old ones are retired or retrained, and the new ones are not prepared. We have to start all over. But this is not scary: technology has changed too much, you still would have to completely relearn.
      1. +1
        6 August 2023 23: 29
        Quote: bk0010
        Any skilled worker should be adequately paid
        Are you out of your mind?! That would be embarrassing for the managers! A new Porsche won't buy itself.

        In the early 1990s, managers and chief accountants became scarce. They got paid decently. Now there is a shortage of designers and engineers. Those firms that are looking for cheap losers for design duties will do this until the second coming of the Bolsheviks or already the Maoists to power. Those who pay decently will have all the engineering resources at their disposal.
  4. +8
    6 August 2023 05: 56
    The title of the article is "Russia's SOVEREIGN chips". Article: "this is China, and this is China, and everything else is China." They exchanged one "partner" for another.
    it is possible to manufacture chips with a topology of at least 65 nm

    there have already been articles on specialized resources that in the current realities, 65 nm in the Russian Federation is fantastic. Maximum small-scale experimental.
    1. +3
      6 August 2023 06: 41
      Small batch and 30 nan can. But this is not a conveyor, where the cost of one "crystal" turns out to be very tasteless .... Unfortunately, we do not have industrial lithographs that can provide us with large-scale production.
      1. +5
        6 August 2023 09: 12
        Unfortunately, we do not have industrial lithographs that can provide us with large-scale production.


        Unfortunately, this is so.
        Russia could produce wafers with a topology of 130–90 nm. back in 2006 But there was sabotage: some few "billions of greenbacks" were not found to buy an entire factory with all the technological equipment.
        In 2004, at that time, the co-owner of Russian Coal, and now a State Duma deputy, Sergey Veremeenko, became interested in a project to create a new enterprise in Zelenograd, prepared by a group of engineers from the Angstrem plant. The project involved the construction of a production building with a "clean room" and complex engineering infrastructure, as well as the purchase of equipment, including photolithographic installations capable of operating on 130–90 nm topologies. The capacity was to be 15–20 200 mm wafers per month (each wafer contained 60–90 chips on average). As a result, an independent JSC Angstrem-T was allocated for the project, and then Mr. Veremeenko began to look for suppliers of photolithographic installations.

        “In 2006, I went to Dresden, where the AMD factory was liquidated at that time. We selected an integrator and successfully negotiated the purchase of virtually the entire factory. After that, I realized that I could not get such a large loan to buy equipment and invest in the modernization of production buildings. For this, people with serious lobbying capabilities were needed, ”Mr. Veremeenko told Kommersant .... https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5294247
        1. 0
          6 August 2023 14: 32
          Quote: AA17
          But there was sabotage: some few "billions of greenbacks" were not found to buy an entire factory with all the technological equipment.

          you haven’t heard about the Opel story, have you? Right there it would be all verbatim ...
          1. 0
            6 August 2023 14: 48
            Tellingly, they bought the factory. And then for several years, EMNIP, he lay in warehouses, conditionally, there. Dismantled, prepared for transportation, but not taken away by the buyer .... And only then, suddenly, they realized it. How this plant functioned here is a separate saga.
      2. +4
        6 August 2023 09: 19
        in other industries without modern semiconductors in any way.

        and 30 nan can
        3-4 nm chips are needed only for wearable electronics such as ivotch - it was noted that even 130 nm is too vulnerable to radiation (autopilot malfunctions were noted).
        1. 0
          6 August 2023 15: 49
          I agree, about the vulnerability of chips to radiation
          130 nm is easier to protect than 30 nm - the golden mean of 90 nm
      3. -2
        6 August 2023 15: 47
        the question is, why do we need 30 nanometers (?)
        90 nm is quietly used everywhere
        there are small series of 40-45 nm
  5. +13
    6 August 2023 06: 00
    Half of the solution to a problem is acknowledging that the problem exists. In Russia, with awareness of the situation, everything seems to be in order.

    The details of this "okay" are interesting.
    Have they increased the quotas of budget places in institutes and universities for the same techies? belay
    Or maybe they raised the lower limit of the draft age so that young people have time to make an informed choice of profession?
    It's the simplest thing that could be done.
    But no.
    We have everything from the opposite, Western "values" do not give rest, and therefore from paternalism, according to the assertion of "our everything", without which "there is no Russia" we will continue to drive.
    The market will decide everything. What are the "sovereign" chips in FIG?
    "Rosnano" with Tolyan is our everything! fellow
    1. +4
      6 August 2023 10: 58
      ... Have they increased the quotas of budget places in institutes and universities for the same techies? ...


      I share your irony.
      Moreover, "the quotas of budget places in institutes and universities for the same techies" for the 2023-2024 academic year have been REDUCED!!!

      For 2023/2024, the Russian Ministry of Education and Science distributed 245 places for admission to universities for the 000st year in engineering and technical areas. This is 1 thousand less than a year earlier. The executive secretary of the admission committee of the Russian State Geological Prospecting University (MGRI) Mikhail Yakunin talks about how to enter the budget and the paid one.

      Read more on Mel: https://mel.fm/ucheba/vuz/7126348-kak-postupat-v-tekhnicheskiye-i-inzhenernyye-vuzy-v-2023-godu-kvoty-lgoty-kredit-na-uchebu
  6. +4
    6 August 2023 06: 02
    I remember when the labeled came to power, and then ebn, we all said that the geldings would help us ....... "helped" !!! So much so that now we are paying for IT !!!
    1. +7
      6 August 2023 06: 39
      I remember when the labeled came to power, and then ebn, we all said that the geldings would help us ....... "helped" !!! So much so that now we are paying for IT !!!

      We are paying for the activities of all the leaders of the country during and after the collapse of the USSR.
      And the West and the United States, even though they helped the process of deep disintegration of scientific schools and industry in Russia. But this was done by the protsodimians from within. And no one except Chubais, Nabiulin, Grefov and those who appointed them, kept and rewarded from above is to blame!
  7. -1
    6 August 2023 06: 10
    If now there is an opportunity to revive Comrade. Stalin and his Politburo, then we would produce chips no worse than American ones ...
    1. -2
      6 August 2023 06: 35
      An absolute and blatant lie!
      Here, to shoot everyone who missed the development of the country over the past 22 years into the cloaca - he definitely did this.
      And then there would be a long process of creating and developing scientific schools, based on our own experience and best practices. Etc. and so on.
    2. +9
      6 August 2023 06: 48
      Together with Comrade STALIN, it will be necessary to revive ideology, education, medicine and much more
      1. +1
        6 August 2023 14: 16
        Under Stalin, even education in high school classes from 1939 became paid. Later, after his death, this gap was closed by opening the so-called evening schools and schools for working youth. Not everything is so simple in this life.
        1. +3
          6 August 2023 14: 50
          With your permission - training became paid from 01.09.1940/XNUMX/XNUMX .....
          1. +3
            6 August 2023 15: 18
            Thanks for the clarification, I forgot. Accurate, especially not so significant, numbers are not always retained in memory.
    3. -4
      6 August 2023 08: 16
      Quote: Luminman
      If now there is an opportunity to revive Comrade. Stalin and his Politburo, then we would produce chips no worse than American ones ...

      Oh yeah....
      In 1948, they were going to produce BM (Katyusha) to produce on a standardized Studebaker chassis ... yeah ...
      Documentation was prepared for a year ...
      And only then it dawned that there were no students and it was not expected ...

      As before the war, 97% (!!!!) 45mm armor-piercing shells turned out to be defective ..
      In my character, I would have shot all the engineers there, there are no shells in figs ..
      The tankers are shooting with the most massive projectile at German tanks - and the shells are pricked.

      And anti-aircraft guns ??? Comrade Stalin helped solve the problem with the MZA in spacecraft ?? right now ...
      1. +4
        6 August 2023 09: 23
        And what would the execution give? From this new engineers will not appear
        1. +2
          6 August 2023 09: 57
          How, what would a rapsstrel give? Create a sustainable trend! wassat They have already got rid of the old "royal" engineers, but the new ones have not yet mastered. And then they are - under execution, under the root .. am
        2. -2
          6 August 2023 14: 36
          Quote: glestwid
          And what would the execution give? From this new engineers will not appear

          did not read the hope above?
          Quote: Luminman
          If now there is an opportunity to revive Comrade. Stalin and his Politburo, then we would produce chips no worse than American ones ...

          People piously believes that under Stalin everything was wonderful, but if something went wrong - immediately "shoot" and everything is wonderful again
          1. +3
            6 August 2023 15: 25
            This was when I was a kindergartener, digging to my grandmother where her jewelry was, because my mother has shiny rings, but she doesn’t. I received an incomprehensible answer then, something like; "I demolished it in Torgsin for groceries."
      2. +3
        6 August 2023 11: 18
        Quote: your1970
        As before the war, 97% (!!!!) 45mm armor-piercing shells turned out to be defective ..
        In my character, I would have shot all the engineers there, there are no shells in figs ..
        It was necessary to shoot reconnaissance: on our armor, these shells did not break. And yes, there was a lot of marriage, the PZ accepted defective armor-piercing shells with a resolution "not to be used against armored targets." So what to do? There was a shortage of armor-piercing shells to the extreme, because the choice was this: either a tool or an armor-piercing shell. By the way, these 97% thought of filing, then they began to break through German tanks, but the enemy was already near Moscow.
      3. -2
        6 August 2023 13: 59
        Quote: your1970
        Quote: Luminman
        If now there is an opportunity to revive Comrade. Stalin and his Politburo, then we would produce chips no worse than American ones ...

        Oh yeah....
        In 1948, they were going to produce BM (Katyusha) to produce on a standardized Studebaker chassis ... yeah ...
        Documentation was prepared for a year ...
        And only then it dawned that there were no students and it was not expected ...

        As before the war, 97% (!!!!) 45mm armor-piercing shells turned out to be defective ..
        In my character, I would have shot all the engineers there, there are no shells in figs ..
        The tankers are shooting with the most massive projectile at German tanks - and the shells are pricked.

        And anti-aircraft guns ??? Comrade Stalin helped solve the problem with the MZA in spacecraft ?? right now ...

        Comrade Stalin was supposed to think and work for everyone.?
    4. +5
      6 August 2023 19: 06
      Only now the whole DneproGES - one of the main symbols of the Stalin era - was designed by the Americans with the Germans. And this is just one of the loudest examples.
  8. +10
    6 August 2023 06: 27
    Comparing Russia and India is, of course, incorrect.

    You don't even know why!
    Thousands - if not tens of thousands - of Indian students study at specialized faculties in Canada and the USA.
    I can personally confirm.
    But not everyone returns to India, of course.
    However, in India, for all that, at least there is quite a large-scale production of chips ...
  9. +1
    6 August 2023 06: 33
    And here is another fly in the ointment in a barrel of tar. We cannot / do not know how to grow silicon crystals of sufficient purity, less than for a 150 nm chip.
    So we can create something more or less adequate in 20 years, subject to stable funding. This means that nothing will be created.
    In industry, we are already 2 generations behind. We still have automation based on industrial controllers, there has been a revolution in the world in the use of industrial robots, and now IIT, that is, the Industrial Internet of Things technology.
    Is this a verdict for our industry - no. The verdict will be a new mobilization of employees of enterprises. Destruction of engineers and skilled workers as a class. A person who starts killing will later not want to do more complex engineering work.
    1. +10
      6 August 2023 06: 45
      A person who, as you write, killed himself will quite be engaged in engineering work, it is better to work than to fight much more pleasantly. Your statement that those who fought will not be able to work is a lie and a mistake
      1. 0
        6 August 2023 07: 13
        A person who, as you write, killed himself will quite be engaged in engineering work, it is better to work than to fight much more pleasantly. Your statement that those who fought will not be able to work is a lie and a mistake

        If it were so. When you turn from a creator and creator into a destroyer, then starting to create is much more difficult (even without taking into account that there are a lot of shell shocks, mine-explosive injuries and everything else).
        I worked with an engineer with shell shock (he participated in the war in Afghanistan). Moreover, the person was talented, but for about 4 months a year he was incapacitated. Constant headaches, inability to concentrate, etc.
        If I had not seen it personally, I would not have written.
        1. +3
          6 August 2023 08: 19
          Quote: Sergey_Bely
          A person who, as you write, killed himself will quite be engaged in engineering work, it is better to work than to fight much more pleasantly. Your statement that those who fought will not be able to work is a lie and a mistake

          If it were so. When you turn from a creator and creator into a destroyer, then starting to create is much more difficult (even without taking into account that there are a lot of shell shocks, mine-explosive injuries and everything else).
          I worked with an engineer with shell shock (he participated in the war in Afghanistan). Moreover, the person was talented, but for about 4 months a year he was incapacitated. Constant headaches, inability to concentrate, etc.
          If I had not seen it personally, I would not have written.

          Your statement is easily refuted by the experience of the USSR after the war. I came across statistics that up to 70% of engineers were at the front ...
          1. +2
            6 August 2023 09: 26
            You can "fight at the front" in different ways and in different places, sometimes very remote from the trenches, although in the papers you will be listed as a participant in the war.
            1. -2
              6 August 2023 14: 40
              Quote: glestwid
              You can "fight at the front" in different ways and in different places, sometimes very remote from the trenches, although in the papers you will be listed as a participant in the war.

              did all 70% of engineers sit at headquarters?
          2. -1
            6 August 2023 14: 51
            Were. But then let's see together what specific projects did these 70% of itrovtsy do?
            Again, it is interesting to look at how many of these Itrovtsy were shell-shocked.
            Etc. etc.
            At the same time, I do not want to say that people after the war are not specialists, but you need to adapt to them. Understand that 4 months on sick leave is the norm. It is necessary to introduce a second engineer to him so that he can take over the project when the first begins to deteriorate.
            But I'm not sure that business and the country will be interested in it.
            I hope I am wrong and the state will take care of rehabilitation. We'll see.
        2. +1
          6 August 2023 09: 06
          Well, I also know that I’m writing does not interfere with participation in the database, if a person is a techie, then he is a techie and whether or not he participated is a private matter.
    2. +3
      6 August 2023 09: 08
      Quote: Sergey_Bely
      we can’t/we can’t grow silicon crystals of sufficient purity, less than for a 150 nm chip

      If you "reinvent the wheel" then of course you are right. That's just everything has already been invented and even "stolen before us." Technology transfer methods in all industries have been processed and there are no problems with lithographs, personnel, scientific schools, machine tools in principle.
      In Russia, the only problem is the long-term financing of science-intensive projects and long-term state orders, which should pay for them. Here, a bet on private property is impossible in principle, a person is weak, and the capitalist is also vulnerable. This is not done anywhere in the world. But the qualifications and corruption connections of our officials are indeed a problem on the way to the introduction of science-intensive technologies.
      And the example of China here is absolutely correct, but unfortunately sold in the wrong direction. In China, officials and billionaires are shot for corruption, regardless of rank and condition. And in Russia, you can get off with just a fine for corruption. At this rate, the Russian oligarchs in the Duma will quickly transfer bribes to the category of official earnings, as in the United States, and lobbying services will be called and taxes will be taken from them.
      1. 0
        6 August 2023 09: 31
        China officials and billionaires are shot for corruption

        And why are you sure that this is corruption, and not a threat to the interests of the ruling group in HOW, including Xi personally? Suffice it to recall the story of Bo Xilai, and what happened to him when he expressed disagreement with Xi's policy.
      2. 0
        6 August 2023 10: 49
        In Russia, the only problem is the long-term financing of science-intensive projects and long-term state orders, which should pay for them. Here, a bet on private property is impossible in principle, a person is weak, and the capitalist is also vulnerable. This is not done anywhere in the world. But the qualifications and corruption connections of our officials are indeed a problem on the way to the introduction of science-intensive technologies.
        And taking into account the fact that microelectronic production of a level of 28 nm and below practically does not pay off in real time intervals, then our capitalists have no interest and are not expected, except for a drink of budget money.
      3. +3
        6 August 2023 12: 39
        Quote: Vita VKO
        In China, officials and billionaires are shot for corruption, regardless of rank and condition.

        We are not able to introduce the death penalty even for treason, serial murders, embezzlement on an especially large scale ... Down-z-zya-ya!
        And then the number of ghouls will decrease ... then it will not be possible to cope with Russia at all! No, you can't!
      4. -1
        6 August 2023 23: 04
        If you "reinvent the wheel" then of course you are right. That's just everything has already been invented and even "stolen before us."

        You think making a decent car is reinventing the wheel? Is it the same with the plane?
        In addition to know-how, to know how to do it, one must also be able to do it.
        Here in the economy - very many - really - know what needs to be done. But here it doesn't work.
        Steal at least all the cards of technical processes, but we still buy components in China.
        Knowing the norms of a "clean room" is not at all the same as building it - which, by the way, we cannot do.
    3. +4
      6 August 2023 09: 23
      A person who starts killing will later not want to do more complex engineering work.
      Grandfather from the age of 18 killed - almost 5 years - and after the storming of Berlin, where he took an active part, he worked all his life. I even trained as an engineer.
    4. +1
      6 August 2023 09: 31
      Quote: Sergey_Bely
      We cannot / do not know how to grow flint crystals

      Nobody knows how to grow them. Flint crystals do not occur in nature. Just like the flint locks on guns.

      Quote: Sergey_Bely
      We cannot / cannot grow silicon crystals of sufficient purity, less than for a 150 nm chip

      If it's still about silicon plates are a lie. In the Russian Federation they "know how to" (and produce) both 90 nm and 65 too. I wonder where they get silicon from? belay laughing

      Don't write about what you don't understand. Propaganda, censorship.
      1. -1
        6 August 2023 23: 16
        Nobody knows how to grow them. Silicon crystals - do not happen in nature. Just like the flint locks on guns.

        Don't write about what you don't understand.

        Excuse me, do you know? The comment says otherwise...
        What are the plates (waffer) sawn from - can you guess?
        Silicon purity minimum 9N - says something? And this is 99.9999999%
        What diameter plates are capable of producing - do not know?
        The number of defects on the plate is achievable with us - and what determines what can be made from it - do not know? Well, if for processes more than 10 microns = 10000 nm?
        And where the silicon is taken from - except for China (now) and what is the diameter of the plate - was also written.
        Or maybe you do not know why the plates must be large diameter? - so that money is not obtained from pensioners and medicine.
        1. +3
          6 August 2023 23: 22
          Quote from tsvetahaki
          Excuse me, do you know? The comment says otherwise...

          Well, well, well ... what do you see there? By comment? Let's not be shy, in our own words, but strictly within the topic:

          What do you see in the comment

          We are waiting, sir ... just move Vika aside ... it won’t work Yes laughing
  10. Eug
    +6
    6 August 2023 06: 44
    As for me, in case of an urgent need for miniaturization, it is worth creating specialized microcircuits that work according to one program and are not subject to reprogramming. This will require a slightly different architecture of computing systems, but will make it possible to simplify and reduce the cost of many things,
    naturally, by no means canceling the need for the rapid development of the production of modern microcircuits.
    1. +2
      6 August 2023 10: 45
      Is not a fact. At one time, they were very fond of PLA programmable logic matrices. It was reasonably cheap and efficient. However, the product, with an abundance of large PLM, is practically not subject to repair. Sometimes it's easier to attach an industrial mini-computer than to rely on an efficient product that cannot be repaired and upgraded.
  11. 0
    6 August 2023 06: 49
    the state machine of Russia is sharpened for one person. who breaks through to the body of that person has the opportunity to prove something to the sovereign.
    scientists, engineers - impenetrable people. there is no chance of opening presidential centuries on the problem of electronics in Russia. especially each si at your side.
    only Putin's fault that Russia ended up in a chip ass. but mundials, olympiads, gas pipes to nowhere in a continuous series.
    you can’t trust the distribution of public money to one person .... especially a former athlete and a fan of healthy living ..... some of the many courtyard stadiums are worth ..... forever empty in winter and summer.
  12. +9
    6 August 2023 07: 07
    Even if a domestic lithograph is created, it has every chance of failing miserably. As long as the interests of business are higher than the state, the domestic lithographer has very little chance of going into series. And it is more profitable for business to buy cheaper and sell more expensive, the country of origin of the element base does not interest him. And that business has got into politics very strongly, the course of the NWO shows us very well.
  13. +9
    6 August 2023 07: 07
    Yes, just pay so that schoolchildren would dream of getting a job in such a factory in the future. So that foreign specialists, despite the prohibitions of the United States, would strive to get jobs in these factories. After all, during the time of the empire, many foreigners came and served in Russia, worked, opened production, trading houses (which were later inherited by the Soviets).
    1. -4
      6 August 2023 08: 30
      Quote: Archon
      Yes, just pay so that schoolchildren would dream of getting a job in such a factory in the future. So that foreign specialists, despite the prohibitions of the United States, would strive to get jobs in these factories.

      Quote: Archon
      Indeed, in the days of the empire, many foreigners came and served in Russia, worked, opened production, trading houses (which were later inherited by the Soviets).

      Your first part contradicts the second - in RI they paid a penny compared to Europe (everything is like in China in 1990-2000).
      Therefore, the capitalists went to the Republic of Ingushetia ...
      1. +2
        6 August 2023 10: 26
        Do not reduce everything to pennies. The situation with rubles and kopecks can sometimes be corrected very quickly. Take, for example, today's payments to the participants of the SVO, because the money was found. For some, the 200 thousand in hand in just one month turned out to be an unprecedented income, which has never been and will never be outside the NWO.
        But there is architecture, the construction of bridges and roads, where mistakes are often irreparable and remain with the country for decades and centuries. And regardless of Lenin, Stalin, Brezhnev or Yeltsin, these mistakes will kill, maim and poison the lives of thousands and tens of thousands of people.
        For example, in the city center you will make a three-lane avenue with a dividing lawn, and through a new microdistrict a six-lane highway, but without a dividing lawn. On the road with a dividing grass, which will be 5% more expensive, there will be few accidents and everyone will be light, and there will be no traffic jams at all. And on a six-lane highway, but without a dividing lawn, there will be many accidents at intersections and with an exit to the oncoming lane, and a lot with serious consequences, as well as solid traffic jams. And all over the country you will have only 10 thousand dead in a year.
        Or you build a road around the city and instead of driving in a straight line, drivers will spend 1,4 times more time and 1,4 times more fuel. Namely, this is how bypass roads are built with us.
        And, the attractiveness of the country as a whole is determined by a combination of various factors.
        You can give out money quickly, but this will not make the road straighter and the arch for passage in the long house will not appear. Decades and centuries are needed to correct architectural sabotage.
        1. -1
          8 August 2023 21: 52
          Or you build a road around the city and instead of driving in a straight line, drivers will spend 1,4 times more time and 1,4 times more fuel

          Are you suggesting to let the flow of trucks through the city center?
          1. 0
            2 December 2023 21: 13
            Why build roads around the circumference if you can build them close to the city? Why excessive consumption of materials, increased costs and excessive consumption of fuel and time in the future.
            And don’t indulge in demagoguery, I never suggested sending a stream of trucks through the city center.
  14. +3
    6 August 2023 07: 36
    This is perhaps the most important problem, everything related to technological progress and, accordingly, Russia’s lagging behind, stretches behind it, this year my brother just entered nano electronics, let's see what happens, if we can catch up with the West, then we will remain in the lead, no, we will be outsiders without chips in the 21st century it will be harder and harder, like without cars in the 20th or a steam engine in the 19th
  15. +4
    6 August 2023 07: 52
    As long as in Russia, the pussies of fur will earn more than an engineer, we will never see our chips
    1. +1
      6 August 2023 10: 15
      well, besides this, an important point is that by announcing a vacancy with an excellent salary now, who will come and from where? Where did you study and with what experience? or we take a random person, start paying him a lot of money and also teach him for several years, until he can do something? no, my friends, capitalism doesn’t work like that .. the best thing you can do in such a situation is to invite someone ready from behind the “hillock” - while your own are studying, but he will need to pay more than he received at home - otherwise why would he go somewhere? and for a capitalist to invest billions in the expectation that maybe, in a few years, it will be possible to fit in among those already producing today, a very risky undertaking .. therefore, in our case, only if this task is taken over by the state, otherwise there will be nothing .. but knowing our hands of the drivers, there are big doubts as a result .. and I’m still silent about the sanctions .. you can disperse, the rally is over ..
    2. +1
      6 August 2023 15: 26
      Quote: Sasha Sasha
      As long as in Russia, the pussies of fur will earn more than an engineer, we will never see our chips
      -USSR confirms - engineers received 120 rubles a month, and Alla Borisovna Pugacheva 200 for a concert
      Nothing new in the world...
      1. +1
        6 August 2023 18: 02
        Quote: your1970
        -USSR confirms - engineers received 120 rubles a month, and Alla Borisovna Pugacheva 200 for a concert
        Nothing new in the world...

        Really. Today, engineers are 50-60 thousand a month, and Pugachev is a couple of million for a concert. Exactly the same thing. One on one with the totalitarian scoop. Don't answer demagogue. I am not writing for you. Not interesting.
        1. 0
          8 August 2023 23: 01
          Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
          Quote: your1970
          -USSR confirms - engineers received 120 rubles a month, and Alla Borisovna Pugacheva 200 for a concert
          Nothing new in the world...

          Really. Today, engineers are 50-60 thousand a month, and Pugachev is a couple of million for a concert. Exactly the same thing. One on one with the totalitarian scoop. Don't answer demagogue. I am not writing for you. Not interesting.

          for you - a demagogue ...
          Pugacheva gave 3-4 concerts under the USSR in DAY!!!!!!Since you obviously don't know how to use a calculator, this is equal to 600 to 800 rubles a day.
          From her interview - she gave an average of 50 concerts a month at the peak of her popularity in the 1980s.
          That makes 10 a month...
          But since you won’t be able to understand the volume of this dough in the days of the USSR, I’ll clarify for you on the fingers that the Soviet engineer with his 120 rubles was supposed to work 8 years old(!!!) to earn as much as the Pugachikha chopped in month.
          And 80 (!!!) years to earn as much as she had in the USSR for a YEAR (!!!).
          What now what then
  16. +1
    6 August 2023 07: 55
    In order to write something sensible on some topic, you need to own this topic. And if the author is far from understanding the issue, as in this case, a set of printed characters is obtained.
    while Taiwanese TSMC has already mastered 5nm

    Taiwanese TSMC and South Korean Samsung have already mastered 3 nm, and American Intel is starting similar production this year.
    The Russian Institute of Physics of Microstructures of the Russian Academy of Sciences has been working quite successfully on EUV photolithographs for a long time. These are modern X-ray machines.

    EUV - Extreme ultraviolet lithography - uses ultraviolet radiation with a wavelength of about 13,5 nm. As light sources in the EUV range, synchrotrons or plasma heated by a laser pulse or an electric discharge can be used.
  17. +2
    6 August 2023 07: 58
    Reassuring picture, isn't it? But ...
    1. -4
      6 August 2023 15: 56
      yes, lithographs are being launched - we will soon enter the serial production of both chips and lithographs themselves
      projects are already at the stage of completion in St. Petersburg, Fryazino and Zelenograd in the suburbs of 5 billion rubles each
  18. +6
    6 August 2023 07: 59
    And here is the result of praise and exaltation of managers and lawyers! When lawyers and economists were taught in every sharazhka, they got divorced like mud. When I left the Armed Forces, I tried to get a job somewhere, you come for an interview, and there the girls look at me with surprised eyes - and who is this "engineer"? What are they doing? We know lawyers and economists, well, there are some programmers, and you are a military man and even an engineer! No, we don't need one! Here you are now scratching your turnips, where to get brains, and not selling asses.
    1. +2
      6 August 2023 08: 23
      Well, as you can see, there are not enough lawyers and economists even in power, given how vaguely and stupidly laws are written and promoted
      1. +5
        6 August 2023 09: 35
        Laws are written just correctly, in the interests of writers.
    2. +3
      6 August 2023 10: 20
      ask for the sake of interest, how many school graduates have gone to lawyers in recent years .. 2-3 people from the class, of which 1-2 are in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and on average 5-6 are going to military schools and even more civil engineers (although half in IT ).. and something, despite the reduction in the output of lawyers at times, and the increase in engineers at times, I don’t observe a sharp increase .. maybe this is not a cause, but a consequence? again .. you tell how you came to get settled .. but where? if a sales representative, then in most cases a lawyer will do a better job than an engineer, and if you go to a factory, then you are cunning, it’s just that a lawyer didn’t fall to anyone in an engineering position ..
  19. -2
    6 August 2023 08: 35
    It's cool when the merchandiser of the Pyaterochka trading house thinks about high technologies.
    1. +3
      6 August 2023 12: 51
      Quote: Andrey Shpakov
      the merchandiser of the Pyaterochka trading house is thinking about high technologies.

      Crap! And it’s easy to say, in Russian - MERCHANDISER, that the tongue does not turn !?
      This is where it all starts: ... like in the West ... there must be a label, otherwise it’s not a company ... Jeans and chewing gum, then Coca-Cola, and in the end - the country was pissed off! am
      1. +2
        6 August 2023 13: 09
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        Crap! And it’s easy to say, in Russian - MERCHANDISER, that the tongue does not turn !?

        These are different animals.


        And the merchant is

        A merchandiser is a sales specialist responsible for the availability, price, quality, as well as for the optimal order of various goods.

        Which, of course, is a little trickier. Vot Yes
  20. +2
    6 August 2023 08: 41
    To build your own microelectronic industry, you will have to make a technological revolution.
    As you know, money is needed for a revolution, even for technological, as well as driving and organizational forces. Rosnano already had money and leadership, well, where is the result? Or is it something else.
  21. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  22. +5
    6 August 2023 09: 48
    Sovereign Russian chips from China, funny though.
  23. +4
    6 August 2023 09: 57
    The problem is that in the Russian Federation there are not enough engineers capable of promoting this industry. And the quality of our engineers leaves much to be desired. There is, of course, an option to invite foreigners, but try to outbid them from Japs, South Koreans or Chinese? In addition, it is dumb - the Varangians do intellectual work, and the Russians only primitive.
  24. +5
    6 August 2023 10: 00
    The author greatly exaggerates the difficulties in this area, I speak as a graduate. The industry is badly neglected, it will take time to revive it, but there is nothing insurmountable here.
    At one time, this industry developed quite successfully in our country, but mostly according to the residual principle, like, in other matters, all computer technology (we were more drawn to space, all the money went there), so we chronically lagged behind the Americans. But the problem is not science, the problem is finance.
  25. +2
    6 August 2023 10: 19
    Well, now the situation is conducive, we must do it.
    It is very difficult, almost impossible to make your own, if you can buy it.
    If the opportunity to buy is limited or disappears, then there is an opportunity to make your own..
  26. +1
    6 August 2023 10: 40
    Quote: ivan2022
    But the Russian people of the 21st century are unable to understand THIS, because they are not capable of organizing anything except for organized crime groups.

    You don’t carry nonsense (I didn’t think that you would brecze such nonsense) what ... The Russian people understand everything ... they had enough of the civil war and WWI to the ears to prevent a new massacre.
    And the Kremlin should thank the people of Russia for their patience in carrying out the stupid reforms of the liberals and their followers... after all, patience is not unlimited... someday it may burst.
  27. +1
    6 August 2023 11: 22
    You can develop a perfectly working prototype photolithograph that will outperform any product from Nikon and ASM Lithography, but fail its production.
    It doesn't matter: we will sell it to the Chinese and, thereby, spoil the states.
  28. +1
    6 August 2023 11: 42
    Half of the solution to a problem is acknowledging that the problem exists. In Russia, with awareness of the situation, everything seems to be in order

    No, awareness is just a problem. Recent events have shown this well.
  29. +1
    6 August 2023 11: 55
    The government thought... Sounds very encouraging.
    Why are we always late?
    Bureaucracy, this "nettle seed", in Gogol's words, will devour Russia.
  30. +4
    6 August 2023 12: 21
    A lot of people here remember the USSR ....
    I then worked in this electronics industry. Young specialist.
    Been on many flagships of that time. On the Kiev Crystal, on the Riga Alfa, on the Moscow Sapphire, on the Moscow Fryazino, on the Micron, on the Saransk, I don’t remember what it was called, but it was a factory that made microcircuits of the lowest quality (including 174 series, therefore household appliances burned only on the way).
    We have made test equipment for semiconductors and prefabricated blocks, climatic and electrical thermal training of semiconductors. And now the last began to order more and more. Since the problem of low quality and low reliability of domestic semiconductors was serious, especially for the military and space industries. And then they decided to burn the microcircuits 100% during electric thermal training, they say the marriage will fall off on this. The test stands needed to be dramatically increased in number. Several more enterprises were connected to our plant, which began to produce blocks according to our documentation. They started making them in bulk. But then 1991 happened, followed by 1993, and the electronics industry, by order of the curators, began to be destroyed. The stands accumulated at the enterprise were handed over for scrap, they are solid stainless steel, copper, aluminum and gold in semiconductors and connectors. Soon, the modern plant itself was destroyed. As well as the entire electronic industry of the country. Starting with the fact that many monopoly enterprises ended up abroad.
    But why am I, that in the USSR the electronics were quite backward, and in almost everything we ran after the steam locomotive, copying Western developments. And now the domestic electronic database has not changed much in 40 years. I look at the current statements of purchases, and I'm getting younger ... nostalgia, everything is painfully familiar ...
  31. +6
    6 August 2023 12: 55
    "You can talk a lot about the reasons, but the main one is that in India they could not find highly qualified personnel for production. Comparing Russia and India, of course, is incorrect."
    Certainly not correct. I am familiar with the federal (Indian) Hi-Tech training program. And to compare with our situation and does not work, and do not want to. If the staff is not found in India, then we will be looking for it for a very, very long time. And not the fact that it is successful ...
    1. 0
      6 August 2023 15: 54
      The recruiting approach is wrong. If you open or seriously expand production in a small city, you are guaranteed to face a shortage of staff. And at the same time, there are many cities with a population of over a million or close to a million, where there have been no new industries for decades, as well as expansion of existing ones. That is, if you look for a workforce where it does not exist and never will, and at the same time ignore huge metropolitan areas with untapped resources, the path to success will be very thorny.
  32. +1
    6 August 2023 13: 01
    The author is out of touch with life.
    1) Taiwan already produces chips: 3nm.
    2) China, then copying, mastered: 7 nm, our plant produces: according to Chinese technology, "nines", without their technologies, maybe: from 35 to 24 (?), nm.
    Singapore and Indonesia have allegedly developed their own from 20 nm.
    Believe me, as a specialist, even if we lay out 400 billion dollars, we will lag behind China: they have about 420 enterprises specializing in microchips. Even under the Soviet Union, there were about 70-73 similar enterprises of different quality.
    Better were: Minsk, Riga, Kyiv, Vinnitsa, Lvov, Vilnius.
    Now we have more or less, no more than 7 enterprises are coping. Formally, 11 + 3 new ones, but they are only capable of "screwdriver" assembly from foreign components. And the quality is disgusting.
  33. +8
    6 August 2023 14: 00
    The correct title of the article is: "Russia DOES NOT PARTICIPATE in the global semiconductor battle."
    In general, I’m freaking out: how could it be possible to build palaces, skyscrapers and gas and oil pipelines for billions of dollars, and at the same time, it’s not so hot to heal, what a lot of money to buy photolithographs and other precision equipment ??? When else was there an opportunity? Where is the strategic planning?
    Yes, we produce some mikruhs, the same FPGAs, for example, but they cost absolutely insane money compared to their Chinese counterparts.
    And only Bird Talker year by year promises us a technological breakthrough and getting off the oil needle. In reality, for 20 years of Govorunov, nothing really has been done.
    1. +1
      6 August 2023 14: 33
      What for? We will sell everything and buy something (a yacht, a club, citizenship, and ....). Who owns the defense industry?
  34. -2
    6 August 2023 15: 07
    In our country, for 100 years, everything has been done in the Bolshevik way: "-To the foundation! And then (..." In the 90s, too, the same children and granddaughters of the "Bolsheviks" with their "liberal" economic policy destroyed about 80000 industrial enterprises, plus the infrastructure for their provision and maintenance.And this is a system of fundamental and applied science, a system of specialized secondary and higher technical education, a system of specialized medical care, invention and rationalization, a system of socio-political organizations that represent and protect the interests of social production (... In short, the subdivisions of Soviet science, scientific-technological and engineering schools, the fate of tens of millions of people and their families - everything flew TO HELL! Everything - for the privatization of the former Soviet state property and the accumulation of primary capital and the formation of "market-valuable" assets (. .. And how many were built?! 220 enterprises? And infrastructure? Speculators and usurers run the "state", philosophers sweep the streets, and specialists from military science are installing elevators from residential buildings! and raw materials "superpower". 30 years in which the West and China have gone ahead. What is the "summary"? For that fought for it and ran. And now the ordinary, simple Russian population is heroically overcoming these difficulties (. AND NONE OF THEM RESPONDED FOR THESE CRIMES!
    1. -1
      7 August 2023 22: 53
      You are right about responsibility.
      That's just pulling phrases out of context is not necessary.
      The song sings - we will destroy the whole world of VIOLENCE ...
      You see, the world of VIOLENCE!
      Not to destroy everything.
      Or do you like the world of violence?
      In the same way they distort Lenin's phrase about the cook and government.
      1. -1
        8 August 2023 01: 18
        What "violence" are you talking about? About the "violence" of the tsarist government of the feudal-bureaucratic Russian Empire? And loan sharks from Western Europe? Yes, they destroyed that world of "violence", but ended up with what? Those whom the Soviet population raised, nurtured, defended in the terrible total war with Nazi Germany, gave education and all the opportunities to make a career? What did they do? Robbed of YOUR own population and allowed predators from all over the world to rob us?! And these are the "people" who were obliged to SERVE PUBLIC COMMUNIST IDEALS? But, for some reason, they stole our country, property, the future of our children from us? That is, those who, in fact, turned out to be cynical and cruel kami who stole our lives (!), And about whom I will take the phrase out of context?! Crap! What context are you still living in?
  35. +4
    6 August 2023 15: 16
    The creation of radio-electronic equipment is not limited only to lithographs, but even this example shows how detrimental the fragmentation and removal from the production process in favor of large profits of elements of production, research, educational, technological chains of a complex that cannot be created within the framework of several private firms. As long as nothing else is possible, it is hardly necessary to talk about any breakthroughs.
  36. +8
    6 August 2023 15: 23
    Chief Researcher of the Institute, Corresponding Member Nikolai Salashchenko said in one of his interviews:
    “We are making a lithograph that will be ten times cheaper than the existing ones. We expect that the prototype may take five to six years. And it will be a very popular machine for creating trial chips, for small-scale production.”
    Reassuring picture, isn't it? Only the scientist gave an interview back in 2019.

    Here's what the government says today:
    Mishustin named a priority industry for development in Russia
    04 July, 16: 27
    Russian Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin said that the creation of facilities for the deep processing of wool is a priority for the Russian government. PRIME reports.
    Causes concern only one, and whose wool he means?
  37. 0
    6 August 2023 15: 52
    Shaw again? How long will it be? When will at least something be done outside of piece batches for the defense industry and light bulbs for street lamps? I'm tired of reading about this halva and seeing laptops for 200-300 thousand with a percentage of the level of cor3 of the first series
    1. 0
      12 August 2023 04: 17
      Nuka march lessons to do, cor3 of the first episodes. And yes, before you write some kind of vyser, at least read about e2k / risk and x86_64. To not look like a mother's hacker. And now everyone, let's do your homework
  38. +4
    6 August 2023 18: 48
    Quote: Adrey
    Quote: Andrey Dibrov
    "in India they could not find highly qualified personnel for production"
    no wonder

    Not surprising. Indian (Pakistani) personnel, as they achieve the proper qualifications, "at the speed of a bullet" migrate from the country to more "promised" places. What seems to be waiting for us request

    It is not surprising that top managers are paid good money in our country, who are absolutely not needed in the West and do not pay specialists who are in demand there.
  39. +2
    6 August 2023 18: 59
    Russia is now forced to pay such a price for decades of the collapse of its own engineering school.

    The engineering school began to degrade even with the Khrushchev leveling, and now it has reached the level of no return. We are led by ignoramuses who can't even think logically. The neural connections in the brain that promote logical thinking develop well with the study of mathematics. At one time, Chernomyrdin boasted of his troikas.
  40. +4
    6 August 2023 19: 33
    Thanks to Yevgeny Fedorov for trying to "resuscitate" (attract attention), one of the branches of science - economics that determines the future of the state, one of the branches of science - economics that determines the future of the state - this is the production of microchips ..... In short, about the state of "things" in the "industry", for today, in one phrase: "Either take off the cross, or put on underpants ......" A little "wider": lies, deceit of the leadership, not fulfilling the requirements of the Supreme, incompetence, an attempt to pass off the desired as reality, theft, dense illiteracy and incompetence in the organization of scientific and production processes (with rare exceptions), banal "indifference" because the prospects for "bringing to life" the industry are very vague ... The revival of the industry should be in the hands of the state and, only, the state ... And if big capital is connected to this topic, then it should have "iron guarantees" from the state, for all occasions and a guaranteed order ... And we have a clan-oligarchic capitalism, basically "left" from the "Yeltsin-Chubais overcoat", thievishly pampered, which is difficult to "integrate" into the state paradigm of plans for the future prosperity of the state, i.e. To. the current aligarhs have personal prosperity - "above the roof", now .... They would not be hindered from living quietly in London or the Canaries, spending their billions as they want, without any sanctions from the West and financial and economic "harassment" from the East (from Russia).... It is difficult, I think, to talk about domestic chips, on an industrial scale, even at 20-25 nm, but about 10-5 nm for the next 20-25 years .... Although ...
  41. +2
    6 August 2023 20: 12
    Russia intends to get involved in a world war of chips. Albeit with a giant lag, but get involved.
    Ahahaha ...
    - Where a horse with a hoof, there is a crayfish with a claw, - my grandmother expressed herself in such cases.
    1. Nearly a billion rubles were allocated to the center for a machine with a topology of 350 nm
    2. Zelenograd Nanotechnology Center is developing a tender for 5,7 billion for a 130-nanometer photolithograph.
    3. A factory for 28-nanometer topology chips is being built in Zelenograd,
    Attention - the question is: how many tens of billions will be cut at this factory?
    And I'm even afraid to think about 5 nm ...
    1. osp
      +2
      7 August 2023 00: 46
      I deal with this system.
      The same Mikron has been perfecting the 32-bit Amur microcontroller for several years now.
      It turns out that even a plastic case for 64 pins cannot be made there and they decide where they will be cased.

      Then, flash memory chips are not made in Russia at all - there are no materials and technologies.
      And even the presence of 0.25 µm or 0.13 µm in itself does not mean anything - the percentage of yield of suitable crystals is not large.

      There was Milandr, good chips.
      But everything worked out.
      They flew under sanctions - there are no materials. Silicon wafers came from Germany and Taiwan.
      In Russia, they cannot be made at all - only the simplest ones, like static RAM, and once
      burnable ROM.
  42. +1
    6 August 2023 21: 00
    The country in which Chinese nails intends to be engaged in photolithography? Don't deceive yourself. Fret first you need to learn how to assemble normally.
  43. +3
    6 August 2023 21: 18
    Question - where to take workers? The answer is to grow. For some reason, our entrepreneurs think that specialists themselves grow on trees
  44. +1
    6 August 2023 22: 18
    Mikron received a loan of 7 billion rubles to expand production

    This micron is a complete crook ...
    Since the 90s, a trail of scams has been trailing behind them ...
    For example:
    https://dixinews.ru/news/tekhnologii-i-nauka/kakie-dannye-utekli-za-rubezh-iz-mikrona-gennadiya-krasnikova/
  45. 0
    6 August 2023 22: 42
    Whatever you say, no matter how you argue, but everything is determined by the allocation of 10-15 billion dollars for electronics. Further, personal competence, constant control and selection of executors can reduce or increase the use of this money, but ... we must begin with the principle allocation of money.
    .
    Performers and their relatives should be banned from traveling abroad for life, protection from raids by werewolves in uniform at the level of deputies. Here, an approximate minimum of measures, without which it is pointless to talk about domestic microelectronics.
  46. -1
    6 August 2023 22: 45
    Quote: your1970
    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
    Give him a minus and let him prove to himself that the totalitarian scoop was worse than the current cannibalistic capitalist system

    Socialist (!!!!) China took dollars from the United States and supplied weapons for them to dushmans in Afghanistan - so that they would kill soldiers of the SA of the USSR.
    The more smashed caravans - the more dough received socialist China from the United States.
    Do not find it somewhat strange - when one socialist country helps to kill another soldier socialist countries and receives money for it from countries - a notorious enemy?!!!

    You do not understand the essence of socialism as it was conceived. Hitler's Germany also built socialism, and the ruling party was called by it - socialist. Socialism is the practice of social Darwinism, the selection of people according to certain criteria in order to build a conceived society. Like breeding a new breed of cattle with useful economic features. In the USSR, the selection of the population was guided by class theory, in Hitler's Germany - by Nazis, and they built socialism there and there.
  47. 0
    7 August 2023 00: 24
    Chips are not and will not be until there is an excess production of raw materials (extraction and processing of rare earth materials) for their manufacture. The export of high-quality rare earth materials will allow dictating conditions for equipment manufacturers and chip developers. Without this stage, everything will be sad and difficult. We will play catch-up endlessly. A trump card is needed.
    1. 0
      7 August 2023 09: 11
      Chips are not and will not be until there is an excess production of raw materials (extraction and processing of rare earth materials) for their manufacture.
      Only in the production of microcircuits (chips - as it is now fashionable to say), rare earth materials are practically not used. They are not needed there.
      1. 0
        8 August 2023 20: 05
        To put it simply, chips (processors and complex microcircuits) are printed on a printer. You can call this process whatever you like, lithography, hard UV, and so on. Nuance in one. To make it all work and turn metals into ink, all sorts of rare earth materials are required.
  48. osp
    0
    7 August 2023 00: 48
    And why are they silent about Angstrem-T?
    In the same place, a new plant was built and closed due to bankruptcy.
  49. 0
    7 August 2023 03: 57
    It's all about wages! 150-200 tons are realities that will suit anyone who goes to the factory.
  50. _6
    0
    7 August 2023 05: 34
    First, it is very unlikely that we will succeed. Especially in the coming decades. Secondly, the political agenda of the world is changing so rapidly that in the near future there may be no need for technological sovereignty at all. The multipolar world will lift sanctions as such, and money can buy everything. There would be money. So far, the course of events in this direction is slow, but inevitable. This can be prevented either by a global war with a return to the Middle Ages, or by the victory of the United States with the economic and military enslavement of the whole world. Our semi-conductor successes in both variants will help us little.
  51. 0
    7 August 2023 11: 23
    The author wrote briefly and clearly. Article plus. The problem raised in the article is global; microelectronics and nanotechnology are the future and very profitable. I would think about investing money from the National Bank fund, it will definitely pay off. And trillions are not needed here, these are billions of dollars that will yield trillions in the future.
  52. +1
    7 August 2023 11: 27
    Where do the authors get information about 65nm topology in Russia? There is no such thing, at one time they produced 90nm experimentally, but the experiment failed due to the unacceptably low yield of suitable ones (and this was in the presence of imported materials). Now 130nm is under attack, because without imported materials it is extremely difficult to maintain the required yield, let’s see how they cope. Naturally (here, too, a little in quotation marks), Russian 350 nm and above are produced in a full cycle, and they then go to the military.
    As for the “28nm factory under construction,” this is a circus with horses, because yes, we know how to build concrete boxes, but will it be possible to provide them with the necessary equipment (where to get it, not only a lithograph is needed) and achieve the required class of cleanliness and vibration protection ( it has never been possible before, but there have been attempts) - no one will answer this question, not even the “developers” lol
    1. +1
      7 August 2023 18: 21
      There is one, but only on Mikron.

      https://www.zelenograd.ru/news/10538/

      https://www.mikron.ru/capabilities/technology/

      The guys who make chips there told me that the 65nm line works, it’s slow, everything is imported but it works. BUT that was before the SVO, two years ago. I don’t know what’s there now.
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  54. 0
    7 August 2023 18: 19
    The first thing I want to note is that the author is quite versed in what he writes. You may have read a lot of relevant articles, but that doesn’t make the article worse. In some places the information is outdated, but this is not a problem.

    In particular, really little-known facts were voiced like

    In 2015, China proclaimed the “Made in China 2025” concept, according to which by 2025 the country will cover more than 70 percent of its domestic needs for semiconductors on its own. But in 2022 this figure barely reached 16 percent.


    But the article feels unfinished. The plan is not visible as a whole and there is no corresponding depth. For example, the PRC’s experience in creating its own lithographs has not been announced at all, and this is such an interesting topic in the spirit of spy films.

    So Evgeniy has a reason to write the following articles hi
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  58. 0
    8 August 2023 22: 48
    I don’t know about anyone, but about my loved ones, the further life goes on, the more crap life gets, all the victorious reports are wonderful, when will life become easier?
  59. 0
    9 August 2023 12: 08
    I already wrote that Russia’s chances of success in this battle of chips are slim. Too much time has been lost, human, scientific and technological potential has been lost. Therefore, there is no need to get involved in this battle, mindlessly copying the logic, architecture, and existing computing systems. Back in 1959, the USSR produced the Setun computer based on ternary logic. And ternary logic immediately gives + 58% to karma, sorry for the speed compared to binary. That is, it is already possible, in theory, to get by with a smaller number of transistors at existing nanometers, if small chip sizes are really needed. And if we reach the coveted small nanometers, then this is an advantage. But it is clear that this idea is most likely not for the current “defective management”. Here we already need a global program to reorient the entire electronic database and software to ternary logic.
  60. -1
    9 August 2023 17: 53
    Quote: Alexander1971
    Interesting article. A general overview of the problem, although without any special details, as well as ways to solve it by the state. Thanks to the author. However, I believe that our state will fail everything it touches.

    Change your state and you will be happy...
  61. 0
    9 August 2023 19: 06
    At the moment, the country can produce chips with a topology of at least 65 nm
    ------

    Evgeny Fedorov, have you really studied the issue?? What other 65 nm? It is not possible to make 65 on either of the two lines. 120 with a huge number of defects. And so 180.

    You will study the issue.
  62. 0
    9 August 2023 19: 08
    A factory for 28-nanometer topology chips is being built in Zelenograd,
    --------

    Evgeny Fedorov, where do you get these raspberries?

    What 28 nm? Where? They haven’t done this for 20 years; some people didn’t need it.
  63. +1
    12 August 2023 04: 24
    Is the author by any chance not the same Evgeny Fedorov who carries mantras about the Federal Reserve, central banks and the masses?
    1. 0
      12 August 2023 15: 02
      Judging by this little note about electronics, it may well be so.
  64. -1
    12 August 2023 07: 57
    I would like to correct the author. China has gone from 15nm to 65nm in 5 years, and there is no talk of any failure. But we are not able to ensure such leaps, due to a different economic structure and management system. Remember Chubais, who spent hundreds of billions on the creation of CHIPS, as he said, give money and by 2030 Russia will become one of the three most developed technological countries: the USA, Japan, South Korea (and then Ostap suffered). And where is Chubais with our billions?
    1. 0
      12 August 2023 15: 01
      China doesn't have any 5nm. Welcome.

      Ps yes, my comment is too short.
    2. 0
      12 August 2023 15: 45
      China hasn’t come any way yet; they don’t have their own 5nm or 65nm. All that is available so far is Western production. And “for now” because US sanctions prohibit their service.

      They have been planning to show their lithograph for about 4 years now, but every year they postpone it for a year. This year they promise to show 28nm microwaves.
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  66. 0
    12 August 2023 16: 23
    A factory for 28-nanometer topology chips is being built in Zelenograd, and Mikron received a loan of 7 billion rubles to expand production. Also, the Zelenograd Nanotechnology Center is mastering a tender for 5,7 billion for a 130-nanometer photolithograph. The center was allocated almost a billion rubles for a machine with a 350 nm topology.

    Nothing will happen...
    Everything related to the micron for the last 30 years has been nothing but scandals and scams...
    Read and understand...
  67. 0
    15 August 2023 06: 39
    Everything as usual. In the absence of our own, we copy our neighbor’s. How can we, because copying technologies are also alien. And as a result... we come to the conclusion that it’s easier to stick your nameplate on someone else’s.
  68. 0
    26 August 2023 16: 30
    So I look and read different opinions in the comments and is it possible to sit down and think hard 10 times before you start and make a plan, And then B and then C, no matter how much it costs, but to create your own electronics industry, no matter what it costs. Let’s say we invest a huge amount of money in the creation of microelectronic chips and factories, for this we invite specialist engineers from abroad, create for them comfortable conditions, salaries, accommodation and a recreation system, let them live with us with their families for 10-15 years and train our specialists, at least ten thousand people, and then we ourselves can move forward through trial and error. After all, in Stalin’s times, industry was created from scratch and the country was transformed in an economic breakthrough, right up to the skies, in 15-20 years it became the second economy in the world. Why can’t we now, because there are too many thieves in law around the President, and the President himself does not want to change them in any way, literally without realizing it, he is slowing down the country in its economic power by clinging to power, afraid of losing it, when it’s at stake Strange power is at stake, that's the problem.
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  70. -1
    3 October 2023 11: 38
    There are no people because the population is dying out.
    The population is dying out because the standard of living is low.
    Low standard of living, because the state is not involved in the social sphere (Moscow doesn’t count, it’s not really Russia).
    The state does not deal with the social sphere because there are not enough funds.
    There are not enough funds because they are spent on expensive and practically impossible projects like import substitution.
    Import substitution, including our own chips, is impossible because there are no personnel.
    There are no personnel because there are no people.

    Vicious circle. Another part of the funds is stolen and spent on useless things, like forums, armies2023 and other window dressing.
  71. -1
    5 October 2023 09: 41
    What’s stopping you from warning everyone about the closure of Ukrainian ports and sinking dry cargo ships in the port with missiles?
  72. -1
    26 November 2023 19: 20
    “not” - “not” - “not” - “not” - “not”... Everyone knows that “no”, we have to work, no one will do it for us: they won’t give us cars, they won’t train specialists, they won’t share technology . Everything can be done, you just have to do it, and if the situation seems insoluble, then call the shadow of L.P. Beria, he will definitely help.
  73. 0
    15 January 2024 09: 29
    They wasted money on the Olympics and other show-offs.
    The boss has only oil and gas in his head.
    Remember Serdyuk: “We’ll buy everything!”?
    Have you bought?