Aircraft engine with an open rotor: a missed chance for Russia

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Aircraft engine with an open rotor: a missed chance for Russia
Examples of placement of a promising turbopropfan aircraft engine.


open rotor


Managers' dreams from aviation industry to keep within the bounds of decency is very difficult. Abroad, they seriously believe that by 2050, global aviation will become carbon-neutral, that is, aircraft will not produce excess carbon dioxide at all. More precisely, emissions will not disappear anywhere, but they will be compensated by new types of fuel, as well as by direct capture of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.



History sounds a bit absurd - over the past five years, global aviation has increased COXNUMX emissions by a third2. Despite this, the International Civil Aviation Organization (better known as ICAO) adopted a resolution last September to zero carbon dioxide emissions.

Now it seems a little fantastic, especially in light of the Russian special operation and international sanctions. Simply put, what does this have to do with modern Russia?

The fact is that the notorious carbon-neutral aviation, in whatever form it appears, will sooner or later capture the world's airports. And it may turn out that the domestic MS-21 and SSJ-100 New in fifteen or twenty years will not even be allowed into the airports of China and Turkey. Engines will be too "dirty". All that remains is to buy aircraft equipment abroad, which is very unlikely, or to launch carriers from friendly countries.

ICAO plans to phase out carbon emissions more than once - the next tightening of the standards is planned in 2026 and 2037. Looking to the future is a thankless task, but air travel is growing by 3-5 percent every year, which by 2050 will increase carbon dioxide emissions from aircraft engines by 3-3,5 times compared to 2020.

Carbon-neutral hydrogen engines and electric motors with propellers should not be seriously considered - these are too revolutionary designs. The future is definitely for evolutionary solutions that will allow at least partially approaching the fantasies of ICAO. One of these, of course, is the turboprop-fan aircraft engine or propfan, which is a complex product of the evolution of the turboprop engine.


The key feature of CFM International's "open rotor" is the fixed second row of blades.

Historically, the emergence of propfan is associated with the oil crisis of the 70s, which prompted engine builders to search for economical schemes. An open propfan differs from a classic turboprop by a large number of blades and a special shape.

If it’s completely according to the textbook, then the screw can be considered a propfan if there are more than eight blades, and they look like sabers in outline. This allows you to reduce the speed, so as not to reach supersonic speeds, leading to the "locking effect", that is, to a sharp drop in efficiency. By increasing the number of blades, there is no need to increase the diameter of the propeller, which is beneficial for the layout of the aircraft.

On paper, an open fan allows you to save, all other things being equal, up to 20-30 percent of fuel. This is only achieved by a large noise level. For example, the turboprop D-27, developed in the late 80s at the Progress Design Bureau in Zaporozhye, which in 2005 barely received a Type Certificate for noise on the ground, is excellent. The engine was supposed to be mounted under the wing of the transport An-70.

Neither the plane nor the engine has been alive for a long time. Just as the NK-93 is no longer alive - a hooded turboprop-fan aircraft engine developed for the promising military transport Il-106 in the Samara Scientific and Technical Complex named after. Kuznetsova.

From the outside it may seem that the engine belongs to a turbojet, just with a high degree of bypass. But this is not so - the front fan has eight blades, and the second one has ten, which automatically translates the product into the category of turboprop fans.




NK-93 (top) and D-27

The giant hood surrounding the fan was supposed to reduce noise levels.

The main problem with an engine with a thrust of 18 tons is a three-meter diameter, which makes it necessary to seriously reconsider the design of the aircraft.

Be that as it may, Russia is currently not conducting development work on the NK-93 or its analogue, not to mention rethinking the design of the once domestic D-27. The theme of an open rotor, open fan or propfan does not go beyond theoretical research.

While abroad, it receives a lot of attention.

RISE


The requirement to reduce fuel consumption and, as a result, to reduce carbon dioxide emissions, forced abroad to recall the open rotor.

Since the summer of 2021, the French-American company CFM International has been working on the Revolutionary Innovation for Sustainable Engines (RISE) project. The ambitious goal is to reduce fuel consumption by 20 percent compared to the most economical counterparts in the class. Engineers propose to develop a modular product capable of operating on hydrogen, as well as with a fan driven by an electric motor.

The developers abandoned the birotational scheme that underlies all previously developed propfan and open fan. A pair of fans on the same axis of the motor rotated in different directions, which increased thrust, but significantly increased aerodynamic noise.

So it was with the D-27, and with the hooded NK-93, and with the experienced American GE36 and P&W Allison 578-DX.

A small digression.

CFM International was established in 1974 by two companies - the American GE Aviation and the French Snecma, which is a subsidiary of Safran. The French have always had a special craving for exotic solutions, and the "open fan" was no exception.


Safran's birotational "open fan" test in 2017. Did not go into the series, although it provided 15% fuel economy

In 2017, Safran completed work on the SAGE 2 project pusher turboprop. The design was recognized as successful, but market conditions did not promise market success - ICAO's carbon-neutral solutions were still far away. Although 15 percent of saved kerosene impressed many.

And now CFM International returns to the topic, but this time it was decided to abandon the pusher circuit and the second fan on the axis. In place of the second rotor, there are fixed guide vanes that can only change their pitch. As planned, this should significantly reduce the perturbations of the air flow behind the main rotor.

Bench tests of the aircraft engine of the RISE project are planned to begin as early as 2026.

An open fan is planned with a diameter of four meters. This, by the way, is hello to all the skeptics who buried the domestic NK-93 with its three-meter cross section. Say, the aircraft engine would not fit anywhere. The French and the Americans think differently. According to calculations, the RISE engine with a thrust of 13,6 tons should provide the carrier with the same Mach 0,8 as traditional high-bypass turbojet engines.


The giant A-380 should become a flying laboratory for RISE

The most unusual thing in history is the alleged carrier of a promising aircraft engine.

CFM International agreed with Airbus, and they sent a whole A-380 to the engine builders. This is a four-engine double-deck giant, bearing the title of the world's largest passenger aircraft. Although no longer mass-produced. Under its wing, they plan to hang the first experimental aircraft engine and take to the skies. Approximately the same NK-93 mastered the work in the air with the domestic flying laboratory IL-76LL in Zhukovsky.

For unknown reasons, the authors of the project abandoned the Boeing 747 flying stand. Although the "jumbojet" is also with four motors, which guarantees safety in case of failure of the prototype. It is premature to talk about the use of an "open fan" on wide-body aircraft - it simply does not have enough thrust for this. Typical consumers include regional Fokker and Bombardier.

Conceptually, the placement of huge motors is considered not under the wing, but in front a little above the edge of the wing. Or in the tail, which is especially beneficial in terms of reducing noise in the passenger compartment. Of course, the most preferred scheme is with a high wing, like in the An and Il-76 families.


As you can see, military transport aircraft may well become carriers of a promising aircraft engine.

Despite the initially civilian nature of an aircraft engine, RISE will clearly find its place under the wings of military transport aircraft. Especially if the developers manage to keep their promises about flight speeds. All other things being equal, even the military will not refuse a 20 percent fuel economy.

Russia missed the chance to be among the world leaders in the development of turboprop-fan aircraft engines. In the West, they are clearly seizing the initiative in a fairly narrow specialization, which in the future may capture the entire market.

But all is not lost - before the planned acceptance into the RISE series, there are still eight to ten years. During this time, there is every opportunity to catch up and achieve parity with the West. And the sanctions for Russian engineers only play into the hands here.
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  1. +5
    2 August 2023 05: 50
    But all is not lost - before the planned acceptance into the RISE series, there are still eight to ten years. During this time, there is every opportunity to catch up and achieve parity with the West. And the sanctions for Russian engineers only play into the hands here.

    Perhaps the sanctions still do not "play into the hands", but force them? Otherwise, we should have imposed self-sanctions on ourselves 15 years ago.
    1. +7
      3 August 2023 08: 36
      Quote from Fangaro
      Perhaps the sanctions still do not "play into the hands", but force them? Otherwise, we should have imposed self-sanctions on ourselves 15 years ago.

      Sometimes the sanctions in the form of his father's belt bring much more benefit to a negligent student than his mother's exhortations to take up his mind.
      If Manturov and his gang killed the domestic aviation industry, ruined the most promising NK-93 engine, hid it from Putin at exhibitions covering it with a tarpaulin, killed design bureaus and aircraft factories, and then not even Father came (we have been living without such since 1953), alien and very the evil uncle flogged our nouveau riche impostors ... maybe at least this way - through the execution and shame of humiliation, it will reach the ohReNevsh bureaucrats that their own Industry is necessary ... that their own Mechanical Engineering is necessary ... that their own Aircraft Industry is NECESSARY ... as well as machine tool building, engine building, shipbuilding, automotive industry (and not Lego from overseas parts).
      It is difficult for a Country to live without a Father ... other people's uncles almost drove into the coffin, but they still try.
      NK-93 had a multiple superiority over turbojet peers in terms of fuel efficiency, thanks to the shell, it had several times lower noise figure and the same emission (although then it was not considered CO2 emission) and at the same time having a power of 18 t.s. in the terms of reference. gave out on the last test (in the last test flight) 20 t.s. Such an engine was ideally suited for high-wing transport and military transport aircraft, they were going to put it on the Il-96-400 and Tu-204, slightly raising the shell above the wing and providing airflow to the upper edge of the wing, which would increase lift on takeoff and remove the problem of the large diameter of the hood. It was a revolutionary engine that just barely had enough time to be born in the Right Country, and not in a country captured by cannibals and puppets of the enemy.
      Quote from Fangaro
      Otherwise, we should have imposed self-sanctions on ourselves 15 years ago.

      Well, in fact, we organized them ourselves by starting the NWO - late, crookedly, awkwardly (relative to the command of this NWO), but thanks to these essentially self-imposed sanctions, we are slowly, through "I DON'T WANT !!" bureaucratic mafia ... our own industry is starting to develop ... And it is thanks to the growth of the Industry, despite the fall in income from the export of resources, that we even have a slight (2 - 2,5%) total GDP growth.
      And the fact that the country, which previously produced up to 1/3 of all aircraft in the World, and now is left without aircraft at all, is the merit of Manturov and his co. Today, when the design school and the experience of serial production of passenger, transport and military transport, and purely military (just admire the torment of the Tu-160 revival) aircraft have been lost to a large extent ... you have to start a lot just from scratch. It is quite possible to revive the NK-93, but now it will require incredible efforts, costs and the involvement of such scarce design personnel, which are often not enough for the most important ... It is not even known whether working samples of this engine have survived (11 units were produced and they were lay on the shelves of the plant) ... but then the PRODUCTION LINE at the plant was prepared for serial (!) Production, ready to produce 100 of these engines a year !!!
      Even for this ruined aircraft engine alone (and his "merits" are incomprehensibly greater), Manturov deserved a measure of Higher Social Responsibility.
      But the arbitration tower "does not leave its own" ...
      Or maybe that’s what the Arbiter is for, to issue a red card to the lawless people ?? ...
      This secret is great...
      1. +3
        3 August 2023 20: 30
        Dear Bayard! "The market decides everything!" - Russia has lived with this slogan for the last 30 years... And, finally, "survived" to its logical end. Capitalism, at the very least, has been built, but in this capitalism "in Russian" everything is confused, lost, ruined and plundered. If it weren’t for the NWO, they would have lived, in capitalist "anabiosis", under the sweet tales of the media that we have
        "everything is in chocolate" and our ballet, again, is ahead of the rest ... There is a modest hope that not all competencies, brains, finally, on this topic (NK-93) "rested in Bose." And about the Komsomol leader of the Murmansk youth - the sociologist Manturov, who D.V. and, which, in the Government - a separate song, or rather "cry with lamentations" ... But! Today, he is devoted, to the point of fanaticism, to the position, to the Flag and the President, and this, now, is worth a lot ... And, even more so, in such times that Russia is going through now - "they don't change horses in the middle", even if it turns out that this horse is not a horse at all. And, if, suddenly, it seems to someone that he is “not catching up” in some matters - he eats quite qualified (probably) deputies, who, too, are devoted, to fanaticism of the position, to the Flag and the minister ....
        1. +4
          4 August 2023 02: 24
          Quote from nordscout
          . But! Today, he is devoted, to fanaticism, to the position, to the Flag and the President, and this, now, is worth a lot ...

          There are rumors in Moscow that Manturov is being prepared for ... a transfer to another job. Maybe it's evil tongues slandering, who knows ... They also chatter that they are going to allocate all defense enterprises from the diocese of Manturov to a new ministry - the Ministry of the Defense Industrial Complex.
          And I would generally divide the entire Manturov economy into specialized ministries by departments. And it’s somehow strange in our Fatherland - both industry (ALL!) And trade (also ALL!) ended up in one ministry. This is WHAT a genius you need to be, what a multi-machine operator to combine electronics, precision mechanics, fishing in the Sea of ​​\uXNUMXb\uXNUMXbOkhotsk, heavy engineering, retail, wholesale, foreign trade, incl. weapons, shipbuilding, engine building (and everything), electrical production, the Defense Industry (ALL) and ... much more that the human mind cannot contain.

          Once upon a time, my friend and I were offered a place in the Ministry of Industry, which was just being discussed at that time and was being prepared for the establishment. To my question "What kind of ministry is this, we have more than two dozen industrial ministries?" received the answer "And we decided to collect all the industrial ministries into one" ... And we politely, taking time to think for decency ... refused.
          And they really did such an amazing ministry. And later, ALL Trade was fastened to it ...
          That's why it's so efficient.
          At defective managers.

          And about "loyalty" ... this is from poetry ... or from military regulations.
          What kind of fidelity can we talk about in a person who has killed ... a whole bunch of industries, industry science ... that we, according to Matvienka, do not even have our own nails.
          And how did this genius trade with India? Have you heard?
          Rupees piled whole barns, and it is impossible to buy anything with them.
          Is he that hot?
          From great fidelity and zeal?
          And what about NON-FULFILLMENT OF ORDERINGS OF THE PRESIDENT OF HIS COUNTRY, moreover, ORDERINGS voiced NATIONALLY? Is this also from "FIELDENESS"?
          or he put a bolt with a device on all these orders.
          Do you remember?
          About new high-tech jobs? ... How many millions was there to create? And highly paid.
          Yes, at least from the latter - Verny was instructed to organize the production of domestic aircraft, but for now, the MS-21 and the Superjet in their domestic form are preparing for certification and a series, to arrange the production of Tu-214 aircraft ASAP.
          Do you remember?
          And then it turned out, after a considerable amount of time, that no one even signed contracts with the factories ... Do you remember?
          Now concluded?
          Faithful tarpaulin wrapper for a breakthrough aircraft engine?
          I don’t know, maybe there are some other merits he has before the Arbitration ..?
          Quote from nordscout
          And about the Komsomol leader of the Murmansk youth - the sociologist Manturov

          You know, in the early 90s I knew several such Komsomol leaders, and even knew them ... Khodorkovsky ... Abramovich ... but they then went into business ... and then completely retired for the sake of appearance ... but their employees are still surrounded and in the towers ... And one, and at all, is the Minister of All Industry and Trade.
          Sociology is of course a great science, since it prepares such geniuses.
          Quote from nordscout
          And, if, suddenly, it seems to someone that he is “not catching up” in some matters - he eats quite qualified (probably) deputies, who, too, are devoted, to fanaticism of the position, to the Flag and the minister ....

          Yes Like buttons.
          1. +2
            4 August 2023 09: 37
            Mantyrov even has a good voice! Where, in fact, is the place for him ...
          2. +3
            7 August 2023 10: 10
            And I thought that I alone had a "great and bright love" for Manturov. The Ministry of Industry and Trade is the second edition of the pre-revolutionary Naval company, Khrushchev's economic councils may be some semblance. It's just that our competent managers like rake jumps, there's nothing to be done, masochism is such a thing. In the 90s, a criminal-bourgeois revolution took place in the country, the people wanted this, and now we are paying for our Wishlist. As the popular proverb says: "There is no need to blame the mirror if the face is crooked." We ourselves are to blame for everything. Many of you walked around and yelled Yeltsin, Yeltsin. We got what we wanted.
            If you approach objectively, after all, Manturov did not create the "Ministry of Everything" for himself. Just try 2 times to guess who could give such an indication. Lawyers and economists at the helm of the state are, of course, wonderful, but we have a technocratic civilization on Earth. The state should be led by technocrats with the assistance of humanitarians, and not vice versa.
            1. +1
              7 August 2023 10: 23
              We ourselves are to blame for everything. Many of you walked around and yelled Yeltsin, Yeltsin. We got what we wanted.

              When the reductions began, the first thing I did in my design bureau was to cut the "democrats" who welcomed the new times, so that they would feel the changes in their own skin, anyway, they were the most loafers. But there is a sense of guilt, there were human tragedies ...
      2. +1
        4 August 2023 09: 28
        Only the latest venal liberals, the author (bayard), are minused for speaking the truth! How many walls in the country are empty, near which they should be placed!
    2. 0
      4 September 2023 09: 41
      Well, in this case, sanctions play the role of protectionism, protecting the domestic market from expansion from outside.
      This has both a plus and a minus. There are no large international investments - there is no explosive growth of the economy. On the other hand, our own production is developing.
      Due to the fact that Russia has practically no problems with any raw materials, sanctions or an iron curtain, the question is simply who introduces a rather profitable option for Russia. Especially in aviation, because due to the size of the country we have a fairly large domestic market for all positions.
      That is, if, roughly speaking, the world closes the borders from France, aviation will die there, and a maximum of light business aircraft, helicopters and military equipment will remain. But large airliners will simply die - since there is nowhere to fly or sell them, then there is no point in producing them.
  2. +34
    2 August 2023 06: 10
    There is only one way to achieve carbon-neutral energy - if you go to environmental rallies instead of school.
    One of the main producers of carbon dioxide is ... an ordinary person. We inhale air, ~21% of which is oxygen, and exhale only ~16%. 5% is converted into carbon dioxide in our lungs. This is the basis of the biological existence of living organisms on planet Earth. (Cows, dogs and even flies do the same)
    And where does oxygen come from - from plants that take carbon dioxide and process it through photosynthesis into oxygen and organic biomass.
    And what is the conclusion? Simplest. We must stop fighting the "windmills" of cars, aviation, power plants, and possibly the population of the earth, but simply stop destroying forests. Everywhere. In the Amazon Delta, in Russia and Canada, in the African tropics and beyond everywhere.
    ps I deliberately left the review of the influence of the oceans on oxygen metabolism.
    1. +15
      2 August 2023 06: 35
      Quote: Amateur
      Achieve carbon neutral energy

      Western companies and international organizations such as ICAO, which achieve this, think about the environment as a last resort. This is just one way to achieve a monopoly in the market.
      In this case, Russia should be guided in the development of engines solely by its own interests, without regard to other countries. Although it is very difficult for the capitalists to explain this even through their henchmen in the Duma.
    2. +12
      2 August 2023 09: 45
      It is completely logical - if you do not utilize CO2, then how much you do not reduce emissions, its amount will only grow. For it is a natural product of a mass of chemical reactions, both man-made and natural.
      And all this struggle is just a way of unfair competition on the part of developed countries and TNCs. Business, nothing personal.
      1. +3
        2 August 2023 17: 21
        Moreover, there is no reliable evidence that CO2 is harmful in itself, perhaps there are natural processes that neutralize its increased content. And there is no reliable evidence that its amount in the atmosphere is growing in any meaningful way.
        1. +3
          3 August 2023 11: 54
          In 1906 (seemingly) an American expedition to Antarctica proved that carbon dioxide does not affect the ozone layer and climate warming in any way,
          in the 50s, the Soviet scientist Kapitsa, was on an expedition to Antarctica and once again proved that carbon dioxide does not affect the ozone layer and global warming in any way.
          It's just business.
          1. +2
            4 August 2023 13: 27
            Quote: Alex2711
            carbon dioxide does not affect the ozone layer and climate warming,

            But at the same time it has a very positive effect on the lush growth of any vegetation. In greenhouses, young plants are treated with carbon dioxide from cylinders in order to grow better - this is their nourishment, such as fertilizers. So there is no harm, except for the benefits of carbon dioxide. But the benefits are great. The more carbonic acid , the more vegetation rages , higher yields ... lower prices .
            And in the seas-oceans, how do living creatures love carbon dioxide!? The more it is, the better the algae grow, incl. unicellular. The more algae, the more plankton breeds, the more fish ...
            belay Do they want to organize a famine?
            Yes They want. Yes And they are slowly going crazy ... cows fart them the wrong way ... they say you need to eat insects and add them to food ... in cookies there, in chocolate ... Manturov is very drowning for this ...
            Quote: Alex2711
            It's just business.

            Forcing the population to eat insects and slaughter herds of cows so that they don’t fart ... this is already genocide.
            Well, business at the same time, through a tax "on carbon dioxide", so as not at your own expense.
    3. 0
      4 August 2023 00: 29
      Truly an amateur. The oxygen we breathe is 90% taken from one source: from the fields of agricultural corporations. Forests are neutral in oxygen.
      1. 0
        7 August 2023 16: 22
        Maybe equatorial forests are neutral in oxygen, but not temperate.
        1. 0
          7 August 2023 19: 33
          Any forests are neutral. There is a very simple logic here: in order for the forests to give oxygen, it must leave the reaction zone. Those. something must remain and accumulate. However, when the tree has grown and released oxygen, it is then eaten by fungi and bugs, producing back carbon dioxide. The tree has grown + oxygen - carbon dioxide = the tree has been eaten - oxygen + carbon dioxide.
          In the Carboniferous, there were no fungi to eat trees after they died, wood accumulated and oxygen was consumed in other processes.
          Specifically, people are supplied with oxygen by the process that gives us food. 90% of the food is provided by agricultural corporations. Let's say potatoes are grown, they release oxygen. Then we eat potatoes and consume this oxygen - returning carbon dioxide for new potatoes.
    4. 0
      7 August 2023 15: 48
      No, it won't work. At the rallies there will be salvo emissions of both carbon dioxide and methane and hydrogen sulfide. You can't do anything with the internal cavity processes of digestion. Here, environmentalists will have to install catalytic or thermal exhaust gas afterburners. Probably, it would be more correct for the entire population to switch to nutrition by "prana" and sunlight, it will really be environmentally friendly.
  3. Eug
    +4
    2 August 2023 06: 29
    An engine can be very fuel efficient on its own, but a large bore at high cruising speed will add drag to the point that all (or most) of the savings will disappear. Options for equipping the Il-76 D-30mi III series were considered - they were more "gluttonous" than the PS-90, but of a smaller diameter. With them, the fuel efficiency of the 76 was higher, although not by much, but in the end they preferred the PS-90 - as already serial ones.
    1. 0
      4 August 2023 13: 45
      Quote: Eug
      An engine can be very fuel efficient on its own, but a large diameter at high cruising speed will add drag to the point that all (or most) of the savings will disappear.

      This is if the engine you are talking about does not work in flight. And if it works, then it sucks the incoming flow into itself like a vacuum cleaner with a compressor. So the frontal resistance will only affect supersonic.
      The higher the bypass ratio, the higher the fuel efficiency even with the same gas generator.
      On the Il-76MD-90A, the PS-90s are heavily deformed (up to 14,5 tf), but at the same time, their fuel efficiency is higher than the D-30s, higher thrust, greater range and carrying capacity. Otherwise, would Boeings and Airbuses carry such mandolins under their wings?
    2. 0
      4 August 2023 14: 50
      More than 90% of this large diameter is propeller blades, which do not increase drag, but rather decrease it. They will increase if they are stopped and not feathered. Just like the blades of a conventional propeller.
  4. +4
    2 August 2023 07: 51
    By 2050, global aviation will be carbon neutral, meaning aircraft will not produce any excess carbon dioxide at all. More precisely, the emission will not disappear anywhere, but it is compensated new types of fuel, as well as direct capture of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.

    The topic is not disclosed from the word at all.
    domestic MS-21 and SSJ-100 New in fifteen or twenty years will not even be allowed into the airports of China and Turkey.

    It depends on politics and competition, they will find 100500 reasons not to let competitors enter the market, and not only Russia but also China.
    1. +1
      2 August 2023 12: 27
      Quote: Popandos
      The topic is not disclosed from the word at all.


      chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://vm.baden-wuerttemberg.de/fileadmin/redaktion/m-mvi/intern/Dateien/PDF/29-01-2021-DAC-Studie.pdf

      or here:
      https://www.nationalgeographic.de/wissenschaft/2018/06/unternehmen-stellt-kraftstoff-mit-co2-aus-der-luft-her

      or here:
      https://www.cell.com/joule/fulltext/S2542-4351(18)30225-3
      1. +1
        4 August 2023 06: 49
        or here:
        .....
        or here:

        And in the article?
        I can google from without Mr. Fedorov.
  5. +12
    2 August 2023 08: 07
    Russia missed the chance to be among the world leaders in the development of turboprop-fan aircraft engines...

    And in what way is Russia now ahead of the rest? In terms of the number of yachts and billionaires, thanks to which the rest of the country not only missed chances, but is practically in the tail? Something is not visible that we have observed an increase in production, with the possible exception of weapons and military equipment. And then, if everything ends, I am more than sure that these production facilities will be abandoned and will begin to "optimize" again. The maximum they have come to is a screwdriver assembly of the Chinese automobile industry instead of the European one. Even their "domestic" car factories cannot produce cars due to the fact that components are not produced in the country. Likewise in other areas. And the rest of the scheme is the same - to drive resources over the hill, and already at "preferential" prices, and in return drag what they used to take directly. No production of machine tools, equipment is even close, because for this you need to invest money for a long time, which you want a lot at once, here and now.
    1. 0
      4 September 2023 09: 59
      Well, actually, a lot is invested in the production of machine tools. And since 2016, as it was decided to develop the production of machine tools.
      In principle, we are now making most of the machines, except for all sorts of 5 axial machining centers and large diameter pipe benders, well, at least in terms of metal processing.
      Yes, they are not the cheapest and most productive, but they are. And not enough has been done for this.
      For 4 years of work in the Ministry of Industry, I clearly saw changes ...
      In 2019-2020, there were almost no our machines, except for the simplest ones. In 2023, the Machine Tool Department almost no longer gives permission to purchase imports - there are domestic analogues for almost all positions, well, except for those machines that I wrote.
  6. +4
    2 August 2023 08: 14
    And how many such lost chances can’t be counted in 33 years .. But nothing, nothing, we will still show Kuzma’s mother .. smile
    1. +3
      2 August 2023 09: 02
      But nothing, nothing, we'll show Kuzma's mother.. smile
      Yep, in the picture. Already shown, her name is Zinaida Petrovna. Did not see?
  7. +8
    2 August 2023 08: 15
    There was a time when these so-called "propfans" "buzzed" on the pages of any technical magazine! Only then a different name was very popular ... "propfens"! "Balakali" a lot about propfens both in "us" and in the "west"! But only Where are these propfens now? Even in the so-called technically advanced "West", serial propfen-equipped eroplanes do not fly! Even 40 years after the start of the propfan hype!
    1. +3
      2 August 2023 12: 33
      Noisy and their biggest problem is the transfer of torque from one of the turbine shafts to the propellers themselves.
      1. -1
        2 August 2023 14: 25
        namely, an open rotor with saber-shaped blades larger than 1,5 meters is very noisy
        even if you put gas bearings to transmit torque to an external blisk with saber-shaped blades of adjustable pitch from the central gas generator
        solution to the problem - NOISE is the lengthening of the blades like that of the Osprey tiltrotor
        but that's a different technique.
  8. +2
    2 August 2023 09: 02
    we are up to these problems ... a hundred miles to crawl and those with cancer!
  9. +3
    2 August 2023 09: 02
    There is a good video on this topic with the main pros and cons of these schemes. In short, such systems do not pass in terms of noise and they have already been caught up in efficiency by modern turbofan engines.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo9fdbcev70
  10. +4
    2 August 2023 10: 12
    It all comes down to noise levels. Of course, the military does not care about this, but without a civilian customer, the project cannot be pulled out.
    1. +3
      3 August 2023 09: 29
      The problem of noise is largely artificial. Noise regulations were a way to get rid of the competition. If necessary, these rules can be easily relaxed. Indeed, the Tu-95 and Tu-114 are very noisy cars, but we are no longer talking about them. In the end, I also hear the A-319 and Boeing 737 in the sky. The problem of noise from civil aviation is exaggerated.
      Cars, and especially motorcycles, without mufflers and with burnt out exhaust manifolds are a hundred times more problem, but for some reason they do not pay attention to it. And they clung to the noise of aircraft engines like ticks.
      1. 0
        3 August 2023 10: 51
        Now PS90A gives a thrust of 16-17 tons ..... NK on the Carcass gives a thrust of 14-16 tons .... Why do we need an exclusive theater if there are serial turbojet engines with a high resource and having the necessary thrust and efficiency.? And it doesn't make noise, either.
      2. +1
        3 August 2023 11: 48
        The problem of noise is largely artificial.


        Precisely. Here is another question of how this noise is measured.
      3. 0
        7 August 2023 16: 32
        I remember flying the Il-18 as a child. Still don't forget.
  11. +4
    2 August 2023 10: 20
    A whole genre has already formed - whining about any miserable technoheresy like ekranoplanes and NK-93.
  12. +8
    2 August 2023 10: 49
    Russia missed the chance to be in the world leaders ...

    Not Russia, but Russia. Not the Russian Federation, but not the replaceable leadership of the Russian Federation, which is consistently among the world leaders in its mediocrity.
  13. +4
    2 August 2023 11: 13
    This "successful" design is very noisy and all the advantages come to naught.
    "Turntable" for low and medium speeds is good.
  14. +4
    2 August 2023 12: 12
    Quote: Amateur
    One of the main producers of carbon dioxide is ... an ordinary person. We inhale air, ~21% of which is oxygen, and exhale only ~16%.

    Try BEFORE you write anything, read WHAT YOU NEED. I'm sure you will succeed. And no - then to school with grandchildren. As an educator. In the ancient Greek sense.
  15. +3
    2 August 2023 13: 15

    The brilliance of "engineering" thought. Has anyone thought about how much "crane" chassis would be required with this arrangement?
    1. +5
      2 August 2023 15: 37
      This has already happened with the Tu-114

      PySy: too short and according to the site administration
  16. +4
    2 August 2023 13: 31
    The only country in the world, Russia, which not only operates, but also mass-produces a turboprop engine.
    Engine NK-12MV (Options
    TV-12, NK-12, NK-12M, NK-12MA, NK-12MV, NK-12MK, NK-12MP) developed at SNTK Kuznetsov. Power 15 000 l. With. Takeoff thrust 10 221kgs
    Compressor14-stage axial
    Turbine 5-stage axial
    Combustion chamber tubular-annular
    Pressure ratio 9,5:1
    Mechanical control
    Fuel T-1, TS, RT. Each engine drives two four-blade propellers with a diameter of about 6 meters, rotating in opposite directions. This engine is the most powerful production turboprop engine in the world and the noisiest. Mass production since 1954. The initial power was 14800 hp. In addition to the Tu-95, it is operated on the An-22 Antey, a Soviet heavy turboprop transport aircraft, the world's first wide-body and the world's largest turboprop aircraft. The engine has been produced and modernized so far, competencies have not been lost. Not everything is so bad in Russia, there is experience in the development, modernization, mass production and operation of turboprop engines, unlike the rest of the world. If appropriate funding is opened, then I assume that on the basis of the technological and operational reserve, it is possible to create a more advanced and quiet new generation turboprop engine.
    1. +3
      2 August 2023 17: 39
      Quote from Lisman
      The only country in the world, Russia, which not only operates, but also mass-produces a turboprop engine.
      Engine NK-12MV

      As I understand it, you safely forgot about the AI-20/24 family? It is, of course, unpatriotic to mention this engine now - but, alas, you can’t throw out a word from a song. wink
  17. +1
    2 August 2023 15: 06
    To our engineers... With engineers, we seem to have a tangible deficit. It would seem that with such sanctions, techies should scatter like hot cakes, but no, paradox, this did not happen. Maybe somewhere locally there is a need, but the global one is not visible.
  18. fiv
    0
    2 August 2023 17: 38
    Now there is no need to steal modern engines to spies, they can be bought, studied, copied. Where are they, our engines? They pulled out the old GAZ engine - the news of the domestic engine building! I also believe that there are many inventors, engineers with ideas and developments, who, like Prigozhin, also want to arrange a trip to Moscow out of desperation. And if not, then why the hell are we growing like mushrooms, competitions for the leader of Russia, institutions of managers who can't do anything. Wherever you throw - kickbacks, processes, bribes. Who is interested in saber-shaped blades there ?? The poto of net present value is the main interest of all kinds of adinistrators. A payback period of more than three years is a reason to ridicule any project.
  19. +1
    3 August 2023 02: 46
    The USSR IL-76 appeared in my country; The development of modern aviation looks something like this from the sofa. Then, when the prototype began to fly with us, it was suddenly impudent that they began to design large-diameter motors with excess power to those ICAO requirements ...
  20. -1
    3 August 2023 07: 15
    Russia missed the chance, read and did not understand. French Americans ahead. The question is what does the TU-95 strategist fly on. And what is the diameter of the blades.
  21. 0
    3 August 2023 09: 47
    I still keep seeing about NK-93
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo9fdbcev70
  22. 0
    3 August 2023 11: 50
    Quote: Zaurbek
    Now PS90A gives a thrust of 16-17 tons ..... NK on the Carcass gives a thrust of 14-16 tons .... Why do we need an exclusive theater if there are serial turbojet engines with a high resource and having the necessary thrust and efficiency.? And it doesn't make noise, either.

    Specific consumption for CR
    NK-93 - 0.49
    PS-90 - 0.595
    It's 20% difference
  23. 0
    3 August 2023 12: 28
    I would put such engines with a propfan on the Tu-95, I would fly for another hundred years soldier
  24. 0
    3 August 2023 17: 17
    Even during the heyday of the USSR (if there was one at all), engine building often lagged behind. Examples of aircraft for which they "did not have time" to create the necessary engine: 3M, M50, VVA14, Il114, Tu204, Il112. These types of serial machines were equipped not with what is needed, but with what is: IL76, IL86, Mig25
    1. 0
      3 August 2023 20: 56
      The engine is more complex than an airplane, that's clear. But there were many successes. Under the Tu-95, Su-27, and more ...
    2. 0
      4 August 2023 05: 24
      Well, that is, there was no dawn in the USSR? And a third of the aircraft produced all over the world is like it doesn’t matter. What is the "dawn" here? :)
  25. -1
    3 August 2023 20: 54
    No 8-10 years, and even close, at least 12-15 years. They can't be that fast, no way. On stolen technology is not fast. Well, we just wish our security forces to identify Western agents of influence that are holding back our developments in time, to put them in jail for 15-20 years, so as not to interfere.
  26. 0
    4 August 2023 05: 47
    Until all is lost. But we'll manage.
  27. 0
    6 August 2023 05: 18
    Why so much text? All this is not relevant in our time, because. firstly, such engines are just PPC noisy, and secondly, no one will increase the diameter until the entire civil aviation fleet fundamentally changes. Now they will reduce the turbine and operate at the speed of rotation of the main fans through the use of all sorts of planetary gears.
  28. 0
    11 August 2023 13: 24
    You can stand on the position of Greta Thumberg with only one level of intelligence! From school we remember the problem about the pool, we have air, in one pipe, volcanoes or similar seismic activity, water flows into another, mostly oceans, but also rivers, lakes, partly forests flow out! Who does not let flow out, why? Producers of SMS do not give TNCs for acidification of waters, soils, for control over food products. So technogenic activity is the standard Western lie and their supporting politicians. That is, he opened his mouth - he lost confidence!
  29. 0
    4 September 2023 13: 07
    But all is not lost - before the planned acceptance into the RISE series, there are still eight to ten years. During this time, there is every opportunity to catch up and achieve parity with the West. And the sanctions for Russian engineers only play into the hands here.

    I do not share optimism, at least on the example of the automotive industry, which until the age of 22 was oriented to the West, and today it is simply to the East, that is, China. There used to be European car factories, now they are Chinese ... That's what Chinese engineers will be able to catch up with and overtake the West, I believe! so be it. And we most likely will then have to transfer from Boeings and Abas to Chinese airliners. For what can be expected from "functionaries" who have landed the domestic aviation industry for decades. And today we have to catch up with the superjet and MS. But who will guarantee that the lobbied Chinese aircraft manufacturers will not ride our market.
  30. Eug
    0
    2 October 2023 21: 20
    There is a suspicion that they will come up with something to prevent the Russian planes from going over the hill. They should try to do this to the USSR...
  31. 0
    14 November 2023 11: 57
    Are there people with technical aviation education among managers in the aviation industry? Or are there all the Manturovs, Dvorkovichs, Khristenkos, etc.???