Modernization and combat experience: the potential of self-propelled guns 2S7 "Pion" and 2S7M "Malka"

97
Modernization and combat experience: the potential of self-propelled guns 2S7 "Pion" and 2S7M "Malka"


In the course of the current Special Operation, the Russian missile forces and artillery are using the full range of available barrel systems, including high-powered self-propelled guns. Self-propelled guns 2S7 "Pion" and 2S7M "Malka" with 203-mm guns are actively involved in solving fire missions, and their special characteristics increase the efficiency of this process. As practice shows, such systems - independently and in combination with other equipment - have a high potential and must retain their place in the troops.



Operating experience


Artillery units equipped with 2S7(M) systems have been participating in the Special Operation almost from the very beginning. Their tasks as a whole are reduced to fire destruction of various targets at the tactical depth of defense. Clusters of troops, command posts, radio engineering and other means fall under the shelling of "Peonies" and "Malok". At the same time, the 203 mm caliber has a positive effect on the firing range and the power of the ammunition.

The Ministry of Defense and specialized resources regularly talk about the work of "Malok" / "Pions" and their calculations. So, only in June and the first half of July, such self-propelled guns fell into the reports of the Ministry of Defense several times. In different directions, artillerymen successfully attacked enemy manpower deployment points, accumulations of equipment, warehouses and other targets.


The combat use of the 2S7(M) self-propelled guns is carried out according to well-known and proven methods, which make it possible to realize all the available advantages. After the necessary preparation and preliminary calculations, the calculation takes the self-propelled gun to the firing position and performs the deployment. Several shots are fired at a predetermined target, after which the combat vehicle rolls up and decreases to another position in order to avoid return fire. Due to the high fire characteristics of the "Pion" / "Malka" is a priority target for the enemy.

To increase efficiency, all available auxiliary systems are used. Thus, unmanned aerial vehicles of various classes and types are now used as one of the main means of artillery reconnaissance and adjustment. The work of "Malok" and "Pions" can be provided by UAVs with sufficient flight characteristics corresponding to the firing range.

Not so long ago, 2S7M self-propelled guns underwent modernization, during which they received new means of communication and data transmission, as well as an improved fire control system. In combination with modern means of reconnaissance and adjustment, these innovations provide an increase in overall combat performance.


It should be noted that the Ukrainian artillery also has a certain number of "Peonies". However, their effectiveness is extremely low. The Russian army, realizing the danger of such systems, is trying to detect them and destroy them in a timely manner by any available means. According to known data, at the beginning of 2022, Ukraine had 12-13 combat-ready self-propelled guns 2S7. To date, at least half of this park has been destroyed.

Features and Benefits


A promising high-power self-propelled gun 2S7 "Peony" was created in the early seventies by the Kirov Plant (Leningrad) and the Barricades Plant (Volgograd). In 1973-74. built and tested experimental equipment, and in 1975 the self-propelled gun officially entered service with the Soviet army. In the eighties, a project for the modernization of the 2S7M Malka was developed, which ensured the growth of a number of basic characteristics. The production of 2S7 (M) products continued until 1990, and by this time less than 500 combat vehicles had been produced.

"Pion" / "Malka" is a tracked armored vehicle equipped with a gun on an open mount. It is built on the original chassis, made using units of serial tanks. The chassis has a body with bulletproof protection, accommodating the power plant, crew seats, ammunition, etc. Combat weight - 45 tons, length with a gun in the stowed position - 13,2 m.


Chassis 2S7 / 2S7M is equipped with a V-46-1 or V-84B engine with a power of 780 and 840 hp. respectively. Chassis - seven-roller with individual torsion bar suspension. Self-propelled gun on the highway develops a speed of 50 km / h. Overcoming various obstacles is provided. In terms of cross-country ability and mobility, "Pion" and "Malka" are not inferior to tanks.

The basis of the artillery unit is the 2A44 gun of 203 mm caliber. It has a rifled barrel with a length of more than 55 klb without a muzzle brake and a breech with a piston breech. The gun with hydropneumatic recoil devices is mounted on a swinging carriage; a stern base plate is provided that transmits the recoil momentum to the ground.

2A44 uses a wide range of separate loading shots with high-explosive fragmentation, cluster and concrete-piercing shells. Also in the caliber 203 mm produced nuclear weapons. The heaviest shells have a mass of 43,2 kg. The maximum firing range of active-reactive ammunition is 47,5 km. Loading is carried out using a special mechanism. Maximum rate of fire - up to 2,5 rds / min. On board the 2S7 self-propelled guns there is a place for transporting 4 shots, the Malka is twice as lucky. In both cases, a separate transport with shells is required for long-term shooting.


At the Pion gunner's workplace, there was an OP4M-99A direct-fire sight and a PG-1M panorama. Voice communication was provided by the R-123M radio station. In the future, the means of fire control improved. So, as part of the latest modernization, communications equipment and devices for calculating data for firing were replaced. The possibilities of interaction with reconnaissance and correction complexes have expanded.

Realizing the potential


In terms of tactical and technical characteristics, the 2S7(M) self-propelled guns surpass almost all other types of artillery currently used in the Donbass, with the exception of the 2S4 Tyulpan self-propelled mortar. At the same time, the course of hostilities and the results of the work of Russian and Ukrainian artillery clearly show that the effectiveness of guns depends not only on tabular characteristics.

The organization of combat work as a whole, the creation and maintenance of communication and data transmission channels, and the use of effective reconnaissance equipment have a great influence on the overall results of artillery work. In addition, the training of personnel is of particular importance.


Over the past few years, the Russian army has taken the necessary measures, improving the existing equipment and the principles of its use. New solutions and components have been repeatedly tested during various exercises, and now they are used in a real operation. We can already say that the efforts made earlier have fully justified themselves and improved the capabilities of artillery, incl. self-propelled guns of high power.

During the training process, self-propelled crews regularly practiced quick preparation for firing and leaving positions - now these skills increase their safety. During the exercises, the interaction of Malok with reconnaissance UAVs was worked out, and now they are again working together, but for real purposes. Unmanned systems have dramatically simplified the search for targets, as well as tracking the results of firing and adjusting fire.

All these measures make it possible to continue the operation of self-propelled guns, the production of which ended about 30 years ago. Moreover, right now, new technical means have made it possible to fully use the potential of the Pion / Malka design and improve their real characteristics.


As a result, Russian high-capacity artillery improves its capabilities and efficiency. At the same time, superiority is achieved over an enemy with a similar materiel, and the corresponding risks are reduced.

Obvious results


At the moment, self-propelled guns 2S7 and 2S7M are the most powerful in our army and one of the most powerful in the world. They are distinguished by unique characteristics of the firing range and the power of the projectile, which makes it possible to solve particularly complex tasks. Therefore, "Peony" and "Malka" remain in service and continue to develop with an increase in certain characteristics.

The capabilities of the 2S7(M) systems have been repeatedly demonstrated during various exercises, and now they are being used against a real enemy. The experience of working in the Special Operations zone shows the correctness of the previously proposed and implemented solutions. At the same time, the calculated characteristics and capabilities are confirmed with the obvious benefit of a different scale - "Peonies" / "Malki" and their calculations contribute to the fight against a real enemy.
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  1. +12
    21 July 2023 04: 29
    .The heaviest shells have a mass of 43,2 kg.

    Probably, it means the mass of explosives, and not the mass of the projectile. The projectile weighs 110 kg. Excellent self-propelled guns, very relevant today.
    1. -10
      21 July 2023 05: 12
      I look at the photo and think that even the grave will probably not correct us, it’s good at least not in a line, as they stand at the parade.
      1. +6
        21 July 2023 10: 50
        Quote: Petrov-Alexander_1Sergeevich
        I look at the photo and think that even the grave will probably not correct us, it’s good at least not in a line, as they stand at the parade.

        Stand normally. No shelter will save you from UAVs or WTO - only a maneuver. So we drove out into an open field, shot back in 2-3 minutes - and dumped. It's even easier in the field - it's easier to maneuver. smile
        1. 0
          21 July 2023 15: 54
          They stand normally.

          Actually, it doesn’t save, or rather it will help against the usual HAND, but if you don’t stop supporting with fire, then an UAV is hung over the maneuvering area, and it already gives the coordinates of the targets, even in motion, even in place.
    2. +1
      21 July 2023 07: 29
      Or charge. but no charge. The author could think a little, purely logically.
      1. -1
        21 July 2023 12: 13
        It is necessary to increase the caliber, since positional databases are primarily large-caliber artillery.
        1. -4
          21 July 2023 12: 55
          in general, the Pion and Malka self-propelled guns have some shells with a range of 30, 37, 47 km.
          to work out an experimental project of self-propelled guns 240-mm with a range of up to 70 km - it would be handy
          - may like the VSRF
          1. +4
            21 July 2023 14: 55
            There is nothing to aim a projectile at 70 km. Without this, it is better to cover 240 mm with a hurricane. The same cluster munitions or thermobaric.
            1. TIR
              +1
              21 July 2023 23: 10
              Guided projectiles are needed. Unify with Krasnopol. It is better to destroy ammunition depots and fortified areas with such shots
          2. 0
            22 July 2023 10: 28
            Quote: Romario_Argo
            to work out an experimental project of self-propelled guns 240-mm with a range of up to 70 km - it would be handy
            - may like the VSRF

            belay fool stop negative
        2. +5
          21 July 2023 21: 08
          Quote: Civil
          It is necessary to increase the caliber, since positional databases are primarily large-caliber artillery.

          What to increase? Projectile weight 110 kg, active-reactive flies 47 km. , and there are enough such weapons. But what they lack is a GUIDED projectile like "Krasnopol" or "Centimeter" (adjustable) for effective counter-battery combat against an illuminated UAV target or according to GLONAS coordinates.
          We do not yet have long-range high-precision artillery, "Coalition-SV" is not clear when it will appear in the troops, how it is not clear yet when and in what volumes they will launch the release of shells for them. Therefore, we have the only "long arm" of artillery, but there is no high-precision / guided munition for it. It is possible to make a new guided projectile for the "Malka" will still be easier and faster than putting into production a new self-propelled guns and a factory for the production of shells for it.
    3. +5
      21 July 2023 13: 27
      Quote: South Ukrainian
      .The heaviest shells have a mass of 43,2 kg.

      Probably, it means the mass of explosives, and not the mass of the projectile. The projectile weighs 110 kg. Excellent self-propelled guns, very relevant today.

      Projectile 110kg, explosive mass 17.8kg, powder charge 43kg
    4. +7
      21 July 2023 15: 42
      The author made a big mistake. The mass of OFS 3OF43 is 110 kg, the mass of explosives in it is about 18 kg. But 43,2 kg in this case correspond to the full charge 4-З-2, consisting of the upper and lower half-charges in caps.
    5. 0
      30 July 2023 05: 34
      High-explosive fragmentation OF43 weighs 105 kg, and 110 concrete-piercing
  2. +12
    21 July 2023 04: 47
    She would also have a high-precision projectile in the kit
    1. -11
      21 July 2023 05: 10
      She would also have a high-precision projectile in the kit

      Won't take off
      Gun type rifled a gun
      1. +12
        21 July 2023 05: 55
        Quote: Petrov-Alexander_1Sergeevich
        gun type rifled gun

        And what's wrong with that? All our 122-mm and 152-mm guns have such barrels and they fully use the HTO.
        1. -10
          21 July 2023 06: 23
          And what's wrong with that? All our 122-mm and 152-mm guns have such barrels and they fully use the HTO.

          Nothing, just the range of our high-precision projectiles is such that the AR-HE will fly 20 km further. If there was a smooth-bore barrel, it would be possible to make a shell a la ptur, but the rifled one would not take off. We can’t make simple artillery for 50km+ in 152mm caliber, but you want high-precision ammunition for 200+.
          1. -2
            21 July 2023 07: 35
            When there is a special warhead, accuracy is no longer important)))
            1. 0
              21 July 2023 12: 59
              and if you do not use special warheads, then there are UAS guided projectiles
          2. +5
            21 July 2023 10: 23
            Quote: Petrov-Alexander_1Sergeevich
            If there was a smooth-bore barrel, it would be possible to make a shell a la ptur, but the rifled one would not take off.

            It’s good that when they made a guided projectile for a 100-mm RIFLED tank gun, they didn’t know about it ...
            Quote: Petrov-Alexander_1Sergeevich
            We can’t make simple art for 50km + in 152mm caliber,

            2S35 "Coalition-SV" - Russian 152-mm interspecific artillery system on the chassis of the T-90 tank with a maximum firing range up to 70 km...
            1. -1
              21 July 2023 13: 01
              Self-propelled guns Coalition with 70 km is certainly good, but the projectile is even 155 mm larger
              and 203 mm or even 240 mm more powerful
              interestingly, we are conducting R&D on self-propelled guns 240-mm (?)
            2. +2
              21 July 2023 13: 12
              I highly doubt it. Now 76 km is a world record that was set in South Africa by super duper Rheinmetall shots in 2019 from a G-6 with a charging chamber increased to 25 liters. And in our country, modular charges are not mass-produced at all.
            3. -4
              21 July 2023 13: 46
              2S35 "Coalition-SV" is a Russian 152-mm interspecific artillery system on the chassis of the T-90 tank with a maximum firing range of up to 70 km...

              You are just like from the parade, where the next piece analogues were shown.
            4. -1
              22 July 2023 10: 37
              Quote: svp67
              It’s good that when they made a guided projectile for a 100-mm RIFLED tank gun, they didn’t know about it ...

              100mm guided tank shell ? belay Where does this "revelation" come from? what
      2. +14
        21 July 2023 06: 31
        Take off.
        And here is a rifled gun!? fool
        Krasnopoli and escaliburs "take off" beautifully.
        A high-precision (adjustable) projectile for Malka may already exist. Talk that the potential of this self-propelled guns can be fully unlocked only by using an adjustable active-rocket projectile with a range of 60 - 80 km has been going on for a long time and there are experimental samples, it's a matter of series.
        Ideally, instead of a conventional fuse, a special GPS correction module should be installed on conventional O / F and on other artillery systems. And KB Compass has already proposed an option, but there are no details in the media .... Or maybe it shouldn’t be until such ammunition massively falls on the heads of Svidomites.
        1. +2
          21 July 2023 10: 31
          Quote: Alekseev
          Take off.

          Will not take off with common sense.
          Typical targets subject to a 152mm projectile at a distance of 50-70km should be left for high-precision cannon artillery.
          Not subject to this caliber, at a distance of 70-120 + km, give at the mercy of the OTRK, MLRS like "Chimera", "Tornado", "Hurricane" with high-precision and kamikaze drones. Volley and dumped from position. The rate of fire of large caliber barrel artillery leaves much to be desired. And now there is no need to produce R&D and R&D and production new ammunition with an extremely limited number of old barrels.
          As a result - to shoot the barrels and shells, and the equipment to museums.
          1. +2
            21 July 2023 14: 01
            under the caliber 203-mm did not develop UAS only thermonuclear projectiles 2-3 KT
        2. 0
          21 July 2023 13: 04
          KB Compass has already offered an option

          tyk reduced the cost from 5 rubles. up to 50 kopecks - turn an ordinary OF into UAS
          production of 5 fuses per month in 000
          (50 kopecks: photosensor, 2 thruster petals)
        3. +2
          21 July 2023 23: 39
          MKB "Compass" has not existed for a long time. The program "Dynamics" is closed. That's why there are no details in the media. Prosr @ whether our analogue of the American PGK.
  3. +6
    21 July 2023 05: 08
    Malka and Pion do not have any high performance characteristics, it’s just that at the moment we don’t have anything that can shoot at such a distance. Their effectiveness in the form in which it is is doubtful, but we have no choice, because at a distance of 40 km + at least something is better than nothing.
    1. +12
      21 July 2023 05: 57
      Quote: Petrov-Alexander_1Sergeevich
      Malka and Peony do not have any high performance characteristics,

      You contradict yourself. And in order to especially clearly understand that this is not so, it is enough to see the funnel from a 203-mm projectile and compare it even with a 152-mm one ...
      Quote: Petrov-Alexander_1Sergeevich
      for at a distance of 40 km +

      47,5 kilometers.
      Quote: Petrov-Alexander_1Sergeevich
      but we have no choice
      Well, of course ... MLRS "SMERCH", "URAGAN" are not with us ...
      1. -2
        21 July 2023 06: 30
        There is no zero bazaar, if we talk about high performance characteristics, we mean exactly a big woman that flies somewhere every minute somewhere, then it’s so high performance characteristics, but usually we are talking about the gun itself, and not about the power of the ammunition, which at such a distance flies knows where, but not at the target.

        Well, of course ... MLRS "SMERCH", "URAGAN" are not with us ...

        It would seem that the second year has gone, but some still haven’t understood that different systems are designed for different things, I’m already silent about comparing the cost of one rocket from a tornado and one artillery shell.
        1. +1
          21 July 2023 10: 17
          Quote: Petrov-Alexander_1Sergeevich
          I’m already silent about comparing the cost of one missile from a tornado and one art projectile.

          In war, what matters more is the price of how much was saved by destroying the enemy.
          Quote: Petrov-Alexander_1Sergeevich
          It would seem that the second year has gone, but some still

          And you are only studying this for the second year, well, I’m a few decades more.
        2. 0
          21 July 2023 23: 44
          Petrov-Alexander_1 Sergeevich better be silent and do not write anything.
    2. 0
      21 July 2023 05: 58
      Quote: Petrov-Alexander_1Sergeevich
      Malka and Pion do not have any high performance characteristics, it’s just that at the moment we don’t have anything that can shoot at such a distance.

      There are kamikaze drones and guided bombs.
      1. 0
        21 July 2023 06: 34
        There are kamikaze drones.

        The projectile cannot be shot down

        and guided bombs

        Do you calculate the cost of one flight yourself? And to remind you how our aviation works now? Along the edge and from your territory? And remind you of the loss of the Su-35, Su-34 and several helicopters in one day, about 30-40 km from the LBS over our territory?
        1. +2
          21 July 2023 08: 46
          Quote: Petrov-Alexander_1Sergeevich
          The projectile cannot be shot down

          It is forbidden. But the Armed Forces of Ukraine and electronic warfare are not very successful.
          Quote: Petrov-Alexander_1Sergeevich
          loss of Su-35, Su-34 and several helicopters in one day
          Either a successful ambush, or saboteurs with MANPADS, but in any case, aviation is working.
          1. -1
            21 July 2023 11: 56
            Is it a lucky ambush
            It seems that forbes printed an article about this, with an interview with the involved dill, claiming that they pulled "patriots" to the border.
          2. -2
            21 July 2023 13: 33
            and with electronic warfare it doesn’t work out very well.

            Are we in a much better situation? Whose bridges are constantly in holes? And how many times do you have to fly over the airfield with strategists to start facing the truth?
            1. +1
              21 July 2023 13: 59
              Quote: Petrov-Alexander_1Sergeevich
              Whose bridges are constantly in holes?

              Antonovsky or what? So since then, they have long learned to intercept the vaunted highmars.
        2. +2
          21 July 2023 09: 30
          "helicopters in one day, about 30-40 km from the LBS over our territory?" -how does this affect performance characteristics .. there are different cases)
          1. +2
            21 July 2023 13: 34
            This is a hint that our aviation, even in its rear, cannot feel safe.
        3. +3
          21 July 2023 10: 19
          Quote: Petrov-Alexander_1Sergeevich
          And remind you of the loss of the Su-35, Su-34 and several helicopters in one day, about 30-40 km from the LBS over our territory?

          Wolves are afraid not to go into the forest ... If we calculate the cost of our destroyed and damaged artillery systems, it is not yet known what is more expensive
          1. 0
            21 July 2023 15: 24
            Wolves are afraid not to go into the forest ...

            this is undeniable, but still the aircraft is by no means a replacement for artillery.
        4. -1
          21 July 2023 15: 40
          And to remind you of the loss of the Su-35, Su-34 and several helicopters in one day, about 30-40 km from the LBS over our territory
          This is when they were ambushed by a Patriot? Ea it is necessary to punish our intelligence that she missed such an operation of the Sumerians.
    3. -4
      21 July 2023 06: 06
      we don't have anything that can shoot at that distance.
      MLRS can't? Nuclear shells do not increase performance characteristics?
      1. 0
        21 July 2023 06: 38
        MLRS can't?

        We are talking about artillery, MLRS are good in terms of areas, light armored vehicles, infantry, but so-so in terms of fortifications or a single enemy. At 40+ km, it’s too expensive to work on one goal.
        1. 0
          21 July 2023 10: 28
          When the question is who is better than Malka? MLRS are able and pointwise, the question is the price.
          1. +1
            21 July 2023 13: 36
            Panzer is better than Malki. The caliber is of course weaker, but there the range is higher and everything else is better.
            The paladin is also said to be pulled up to the level of Pzeshka. In general, enough.
            1. +1
              21 July 2023 16: 23
              Panzer has competitors from 152 mm. And also shoots nuclear charges?
          2. +3
            21 July 2023 16: 19
            Well, the same Germans with the French. 155 mm howitzers can reach 40 km or even more. And quite a bunch of massive cheap shells, not excaliburs. They say now it is very strongly felt on the Zaporozhye front.
    4. +1
      21 July 2023 07: 33
      Any weapon - can be used tactically correctly and it will be effective. And vice versa, even the best, if used incorrectly (illiterately), will not give a result.
      1. +1
        21 July 2023 13: 38
        I agree, but when the enemy’s artillery hits from 60-70, and your msta-s is with difficulty 25-35 or small 40+, then don’t give up, but you won’t be able to counter the battery fight.
        1. 0
          30 July 2023 21: 55
          Will there be at least one example of Western artillery, which is in service with the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which strikes from 60-70 km? So the panzer-howitzer you praised can accurately hit with an excalibur at 40+ km, and ordinary shells from any artillery system will give the wildest dispersion at ranges above 20 km.
  4. +8
    21 July 2023 05: 53
    Without the creation of a unified target designation system, in which the decision to hit the identified target would be made in a couple of minutes, all the high combat qualities of our artillery and missile forces are greatly reduced to zero
  5. +2
    21 July 2023 07: 05
    An ideal weapon for a promising destroyer.
    To support the landing - what you need. An automated system with a rate of fire of 15 - 20 rounds per minute with conventional ammunition will dismantle any fortification, send a transport to the bottom with a couple of shells.
    It is a pity that work on this topic was stopped in the 80s of the last century.
    1. +2
      21 July 2023 07: 08
      To my dear downvoters:
      The installation was developed in terms of weight and size indicators of the AK-130/54 system, for installation on Project 956 "Sarych".
      1. 0
        21 July 2023 11: 02
        Quote: Victor Leningradets
        An ideal weapon for a promising destroyer.
        To support the landing - what you need. An automated system with a rate of fire of 15 - 20 rounds per minute with conventional ammunition will dismantle any fortification, send a transport to the bottom with a couple of shells.
        It is a pity that work on this topic was stopped in the 80s of the last century.

        Quote: Victor Leningradets
        The installation was developed in terms of weight and size indicators of the AK-130/54 system, for installation on Project 956 "Sarych".

        And thank the sea God! Otherwise, now they would sob over the "sawed into pins and needles that have no analogues in the world" reincarnations of "Prince Eugen" laughing
        Let me remind you that the last US TCRs (and they are still better than us "know how to use boats" to our deep regret) with weapons from 9-203mm were scrapped in the early 1970s, and more amers did not return to the topic of guns on ships larger than 127mm. ("Zamvolty" does not count).
        1. 0
          21 July 2023 13: 41
          And thank the sea God! Otherwise, now they would sob over the "sawed into needles that have no analogues in the world" reincarnations of "Prince Eugen" laughing

          Eugen is two, three times bigger, almost like Peter

          Let me remind you that the last US TCRs (and they are still better than us "know how to use boats" to our deep regret) with weapons from 9-203mm were scrapped in the early 1970s, and more amers did not return to the topic of guns on ships larger than 127mm. ("Zamvolty" does not count).

          Iowas were and used?
          1. 0
            21 July 2023 20: 18
            Quote: Petrov-Alexander_1Sergeevich
            Eugen is two, three times bigger, almost like Peter

            Well, all the same, much smaller than "Peter".
            Quote: Petrov-Alexander_1Sergeevich
            Iowas were and used?

            Undoubtedly. But mostly as memorials. Yes, they were taken out of the sludge (like a couple) during the first war in Iraq. Before that, if sclerosis serves me right, they shot at Beirut. Limited in Vietnam. But mostly it's all before the 1970s. Apparently (size) 406-mm caliber matters laughing
            Yes, and just beautiful devils! The hand did not rise to the metal send laughing
            1. 0
              26 July 2023 00: 27
              Well, all the same, much smaller than "Peter".

              Full 19000+ at Peter 25000
        2. -1
          21 July 2023 17: 51
          Let me remind you that the last US TCRs (and they are still better than us "know how to use boats" to our deep regret) with weapons from 9-203mm were scrapped in the early 1970s, and more amers did not return to the topic of guns on ships larger than 127mm. ("Zamvolty" does not count).

          They lived a little, that's the point.
          The Americans tested the destroyer DD-945 "Hull" with a similar system of 203 mm. Tests in the late 70s showed the high effectiveness of the gun against sea and coastal targets, but as an anti-aircraft gun, its effectiveness was low. This was the main reason for the refusal to arm subsequent ships with this system.
          Today, ALL 76 - 130 mm barrel systems are not effective as air defense systems, which again raises the question of the effectiveness of artillery weapons, especially against the coast. lol
          1. 0
            21 July 2023 20: 24
            Quote: Victor Leningradets
            The Americans tested the destroyer DD-945 "Hull" with a similar system of 203 mm. Tests in the late 70s showed the high effectiveness of the gun against sea and coastal targets, but as an anti-aircraft gun, its effectiveness was low.

            Yes. So it remained at the level of the experiment. I wonder why?
            Quote: Victor Leningradets
            Today, ALL barrel systems of caliber 76 - 130 mm are not effective as air defense systems,

            Well, well ... The effectiveness of air defense is generally a relative concept in view of its multi-level nature.
            Quote: Victor Leningradets
            which again raises the question of the effectiveness of artillery weapons, especially against the coast.

            Yes Yes. In the zone of destruction of the entire spectrum of weapons of the ground forces. Something is not visible on the horizon in any country in the world of modern prototypes of monitors and gunboats. And the "last of the Mohicans", the handsome "Iowa" (as a colleague correctly noted above in the branch), have been monuments for 40 years laughing
        3. 0
          22 July 2023 13: 32
          Dear colleague, you forgot about the tests with the Mark 71 gun caliber 8 "/55 (203 mm) hi
          https://www.wikiwand.com/en/8%22/55_caliber_Mark_71_gun
          1. 0
            22 July 2023 14: 36



            short and according to the site administration does not carry useful information
    2. +3
      21 July 2023 08: 07
      Promising destroyer? We cannot build frigates in the required quantity ... So, unfortunately, this is all fantasy ...
  6. +4
    21 July 2023 07: 13
    It would be nice to create a guided projectile for this weapon, even a pair - one with an adjustment for illumination by a laser from an UAV, and the second with an adjustment for Glonass and increase the range even by the type of ARS.
    That's when a couple of Maloks after 3-4 shots change positions, and the platoon (company) stronghold (positions) is suppressed and it remains only to occupy the infantry. And now, with unguided shells from a distance of 20-30 km, you can shoot for a long time and ... there will be nothing for the enemy in the dugout trenches
    1. -1
      21 July 2023 07: 38
      How thick does the dugout ceiling need to be in order to stop a high-explosive fragmentation, weighing 110 kg, falling at an angle of 45 degrees at a speed of 500 m / s? And what will happen to l / s, even if it does not break through, but explodes on the ceiling?
      1. +5
        21 July 2023 08: 09
        And how many shots do you need to make to get into the dugout ??? And counter-battery reconnaissance khokh.lov is unfortunately very effective ...
    2. 0
      21 July 2023 10: 39
      Quote: barbiturate
      Then a couple of Maloks after 3-4 shots change positions, and the platoon (company) stronghold (positions) is suppressed and it remains only to occupy the infantry

      This is "shooting sparrows from a cannon." 152mm will cope with such a goal no worse and in the same time.
      1. 0
        21 July 2023 11: 40
        152mm on a concrete armor plate for bunkers, only scratches leave ...
        1. +1
          21 July 2023 11: 53
          Quote: KJIETyc
          152mm on a concrete armor plate for bunkers, only scratches leave ...

          platoon (company) strong point (positions)

          This is no longer a platoon-company stronghold. But if necessary, then it’s not a sin to plant 250-300kg high-precision brbch from "Hurricane" kilometers from 70request
          Once again to my comments - "The end justifies the means." but as always hi
      2. 0
        21 July 2023 18: 55
        don’t tell me, a normal platoon stronghold includes a pair of dugouts for shelter in 2-3 logs and a ground of a meter and a half from above, just to keep a high-explosive 155 (152) mm projectile from hitting.
        In addition, even a guided projectile has some dispersion and 152 mm Krasnopol may not be suppressed at once, they come to their senses. The Malka projectile is 110 kg and any hit, with a KVO of 3-10m, is guaranteed to bury the dugout and some mortar nearby, and 5-6 such shells (with high accuracy) will suppress both a couple of dugouts and a couple of machine-gun nests and the ammo in the trench will detonate for the mortar (s), etc. As a result, you can quickly take opornik after opornik.
    3. +1
      21 July 2023 15: 46
      A lightweight Kama-type tornado on a 4-axle Kamaz with guided missiles (an analogue of a chimera) could in most cases replace this monster from the Soviet past. As well as the Coalition of the SV on wheels or tracks.
  7. +7
    21 July 2023 08: 07
    All these measures make it possible to continue the operation of self-propelled guns, the production of which ended about 30 years ago.

    It seems to me that their era after the war will end, given that they are not produced, and the resource of the trunks will run out.
    1. +4
      21 July 2023 08: 26
      Quote: Petrov-Alexander_1Sergeevich
      I look at the photo and think that even the grave will probably not correct us, it’s good at least not in a line, as they stand at the parade.

      Yes, in the picture there are two unarmored self-propelled guns literally 20m apart, it’s impossible, in conditions of counter-battery combat, the distance should be greater than the dispersion diameter of enemy shells, which is interesting, this is understandable to many far from the army.
      1. +1
        21 July 2023 11: 01
        Quote: agond
        in conditions of counter-battery combat, the distance should be greater than the diameter of dispersion of enemy projectiles

        In the conditions of counter-battery struggle The self-propelled guns must leave the firing positions before the arrival of enemy shells / RS / UAVs. Otherwise, nothing will save them - neither shelters, nor the distance between the guns. In the best case, the OPs will "sprinkle with chalk" cluster shells, in the worst case, they will work out spot-on UAVs.
  8. +3
    21 July 2023 08: 30
    Quote: Victor Leningradets
    An ideal weapon for a promising destroyer.
    To support the landing - what you need. An automated system with a rate of fire of 15 - 20 rounds per minute with conventional ammunition will dismantle any fortification, send a transport to the bottom with a couple of shells.
    It is a pity that work on this topic was stopped in the 80s of the last century.

    With the same success, you can dream of a promising cruiser or a promising aircraft carrier)))
    1. 0
      21 July 2023 10: 36
      Yeah, or about an interstellar battleship. All these dreams about the perfect landing are now simply ridiculous.
      1. 0
        21 July 2023 17: 53
        All these dreams about the perfect landing are now simply ridiculous.

        As if our group in Syria did not have to laugh.
  9. 0
    21 July 2023 11: 16
    Malka needs to be modernized (according to the artillery unit). There is probably no point in the new ones, their niche will be occupied by Tornado-S and some sort of Hermes. But what is there needs to be equipped with a new gun with a longer range and with a Glonass-guided projectile. Modern 155mm (long barrel) and 152mm Coalition claim almost 70km with such active rockets with satellite correction.
    a 203mm gun should at least deliver its projectile to similar ranges.
    1. +2
      21 July 2023 16: 00
      How do you understand to modernize according to the artillery part? Make the barrel longer? He is so long. And any change in the parameters of the barrel requires a change in everything else. This means you need to make a completely new gun. Now we can’t make a barrel from this one, but you want even longer. And there is no one to develop a new gun now. Those designers are long gone. Like the new Coalition of St.
      Yes, and ammunition for them probably had not been produced in large quantities for a long time, it was believed that no one would fight with guns, and if it did, then they say there is enough Soviet ammunition in warehouses. But it turned out not so much and there was a lot in the warehouses, for such a long military operation.
      And there are other solutions for breaking through bunkers.
      1. -1
        22 July 2023 22: 02
        1. Make a new 203mm barrel. With a larger Camora
        2. Make in an intermediate gauge (170-180mm), but keep the long one.
        3. Make a long coalition barrel 152mm.
  10. +1
    21 July 2023 11: 18
    But the reality is that the main work will fall on Peonies and Nonas, the system itself is much cheaper, + mass production of ammunition is dramatically cheaper. Smaller loads allow you to increase the equipment of explosives and simplify the equipment of electronics. But Malok has its own unique abilities, of course, of course. Pieces 4 per division, it would be nice.
    1. +3
      21 July 2023 12: 09
      Tornado-S, when using 300mm rockets with correction, will block on all fronts.
      1. +2
        21 July 2023 13: 43
        Tornado-S, when using 300mm rockets with correction, will block on all fronts.

        Especially for the cost.
        1. +2
          21 July 2023 15: 14
          Quote: Alexey RA
          In conditions of counter-battery combat, self-propelled guns must leave firing positions before the arrival of enemy shells / RS / UAVs .....

          That's right, but the Peony's rate of fire is one and a half shots per minute. at the same time, no more than eight shots are allowed within 5 minutes; + time to prepare for firing + time to leave the position, in this regard, MLRS work faster.
        2. +1
          21 July 2023 16: 09
          A guided projectile on a malka will cost a lot. Very expensive, if they can make it at all. This will allow electronics and actuators to do this, which, when fired, will experience monstrous overloads.
          A tornado rocket is not a cruise missile with an engine, its engine is not so complicated and expensive, and it does not work for so long. And the control mechanisms and electronics will be cheaper than in the projectile, it will be easier and not experience such overloads. Yes, and there is more space in the tornado rocket.
          The tornado was the MLRS, it had to launch a lot of missiles at a time, so the missiles were not so expensive.
          And the installation itself ... well, the chassis, it can be different, based on any car, KAMAZ, MZKT, maybe a Ural, a typhoon, and several pipes with control hydraulics. In addition to the tornado, there is a hurricane base.
          1. -1
            22 July 2023 00: 01
            One Smerch rocket cost 7000 rubles before the war, now it is more expensive. Comparable to Hymars.
          2. +1
            22 July 2023 09: 42
            G-loads acting on the projectile when fired from Pion/Malka are about the same as when fired from Msta. The initial velocity of the projectile from the 2S7 barrel is higher (960 versus 810 m / s), but there the barrel length is 1.5 times longer. There is a formula a=V0^2/2*S, where V0 is the initial speed, S is the length of the accelerating section.
            There will be no particular difficulties in creating Krasnopol for a larger caliber, and its price will be only slightly higher. A larger caliber simplifies the creation of electronic filling and projectile control drives, because a larger element base can be used. There is another option to increase efficiency - the installation of fuses with a GPS / GLONASS sensor. In case of undershoot, the fuse will work as a contact, and when flying, it will give a command to detonate in the air above the target
      2. +1
        23 July 2023 07: 04
        Tornado-S, when using 300mm rockets with correction, will block on all fronts.


        Following your logic, then all guns, howitzers and MLRS need to be replaced with Iskanders, it generally covers everything along the front.

        Why don't you take into account the cost of the weapon system and ammunition?
  11. +1
    22 July 2023 10: 47
    1. At the end of the last century, the Americans developed a 203-mm guided cluster artillery projectile with a ramjet engine and an active radar seeker ... They abandoned this projectile only because they abandoned the 203-mm caliber!
    2. In caliber 203 mm, it is easier (cheaper) to make a controlled (adjustable) artillery projectile!
    3. It is easier to "squeeze" a UAV into the body of a 203-mm projectile!
  12. 0
    22 July 2023 11: 56
    I read somewhere that in the conditions of the NWO, such self-propelled guns can be constantly repaired, they say, it shoots for a week, for a week of maintenance. I suspect that this is partly true, because there everything works to the limit.
  13. +1
    23 July 2023 07: 00
    This self-propelled gun URGENTLY needs high-precision ammunition with GLONASS and laser guidance, and then its range will be very relevant, and at a distance of 47 km, conventional ammunition has a large dispersion, which makes it very difficult to hit the target, increases the consumption of ammunition and the time the gun is in the firing position.
  14. 0
    23 July 2023 21: 46
    Quote: Petrov-Alexander_1Sergeevich
    And remind you of the loss of the Su-35, Su-34 and several helicopters in one day, about 30-40 km from the LBS over our territory?

    The fault of those who planned flights for a long time without changing routes. As a result, they were caught by air defense from an ambush.
  15. 0
    7 October 2023 11: 50
    It’s surprising that a shot with a guided/adjustable projectile was not developed for this self-propelled gun!