Military Review

The gun must be beautiful

But not necessarily foreign

The question of the procurement or licensed production of foreign models of weapons and military equipment for Russian security forces continues to excite not only the expert community, but also very many citizens of our country. In some cases, such decisions seem quite reasonable, in others they cause a lot of questions. Meanwhile, in the beginning of May, another such project became known: the state corporation Russian Technologies is negotiating with the Italian company Beretta about the creation of a joint venture that will produce small weapon.

Sergei Chemezov, general director of the Russian Technologies State Corporation, stated during a meeting with Prime Minister Vladimir Putin that at the beginning of 2011, the possibility of launching a joint production of hunting and sporting guns and pistols was discussed at the negotiations with the Italians (the latter are for employees of special services and the police) . According to the head of the state corporation, the entire range of products of the future enterprise is planned to be delivered both to the domestic Russian market and for export, primarily to the CIS countries.

Also during the conversation with the Chairman of the Government, held on 6 in May, Sergey Chemezov made an important statement regarding the future of some Russian enterprises engaged in the manufacture of small arms: Izhevsk Mechanical Plant, Izhmash and Vyatka-Polyansky Machine-Building Plant Molot. According to Chemezov, military production will be concentrated in Izhevsk, “Molot” is planned to be reoriented. The main military products in the field of small arms in this enterprise were Kalashnikov light machine guns. Now they will be produced in Izhevsk, apparently, the concern "Izhmash" will do it.

Sergey Chemezov explained that for the work of three enterprises producing similar products, it is impossible to collect the necessary number of orders. Indeed, in modern conditions, having a separate production for the RPK-74 and its modifications, in essence representing the same Kalashnikov assault rifle with only a reinforced design and a longer barrel, is an unaffordable luxury. Therefore, the decision to transfer the manufacture of these weapons to Izhevsk should be recognized as quite logical. You can even go a little further and reflect on the feasibility of releasing the RPK-74 in modern conditions. Russia has not recently received export orders for this machine gun, although Kalashnikov assault rifles are still in steady demand from our MTC partners.

Sergey Chemezov didn’t specify what capacities are planned to set up a joint venture with Beretta. Apparently, the site has not yet been selected. However, the questions about what kind of pistol (or pistols) the Italian company is supposed to produce in the interests of Russian law enforcement agencies, and most importantly, whether they (they) need it, are of considerable interest.

Today Beretta offers four basic models of weapons, including those for special forces and law enforcement officers. To be more precise, these are rather two branches, each having two models of similar construction, the main difference of which is the automation scheme: 92 and 90two, 8000 Cougar and Px4 Storm.

Beretta 92

The most famous and popular model of the company is Beretta 92, which under the designation М9 since 1985, is in service with the American military. Its automatics is built according to the scheme with the use of recoil energy in the short course of the trunk and by locking the larva swinging in a vertical plane. The distinctive features of the model are an open top (up to a certain point, this solution was the “family” feature of all Beretta pistols) shutter and frame made of aluminum alloy.

9-mm Luger / Parabellum

The main ammunition for the 92 model is standard for NATO countries and the most common in the world 9x19 mm, it is also 9-mm Luger / Parabellum, although there are also modifications for the .40SW cartridge - for arming the American police, and also 9-X21 IMI - for civilian market. The capacity of the shop for service pistols of caliber 9 mm - 15 cartridges, the mass of the pistol without cartridges - 945 g. On the whole, overcoming some “childhood diseases”, the most serious of which were the cases of destruction of the bolt and its rear part in the armed forces of the United States and France, Beretta 92 earned a reputation as a powerful and reliable weapon. It is no accident that the gun is in service in the armies and police units of the 21 state.

The Beretta 90two is essentially a somewhat modernized 92 model and is distinguished from it primarily by the presence of an ergonomic modular plastic lining of the handle (it can be individually selected for each shooter) and a standard strip for attaching a tactical flashlight or laser pointer to the bottom of the frame. By design, the type of used ammunition models 92 and 90two are generally identical. The 90two also offers a magazine with increased capacity for 17 cartridges.

8000 Cougar

The 8000 Cougar and Px4 Storm belong to the new generation of Beretta pistols. Their main feature is the locking scheme - here it is the turn of the trunk. Unlike previous models of the company 8000 Cougar and its further development - Px4 Storm received a fully closed shutter. Both models have good ergonomics, are more compact and primarily focused on the use of the police. In accordance with the fashion trends of recent years, the frame of the Px4 Storm pistol is made of polymer, each pistol is equipped with three interchangeable backpieces of the handle of different sizes, which allows the shooter to fit the pistol in accordance with the anatomical features of the structure of his hand. In caliber 9 mm, depending on the modification, the capacity of the 8000 Cougar shop is 13-15 cartridges, in Px4 Storm - 17. Due to the use of the Px4 Storm in a polymer frame, the mass without cartridges is relatively small - 785. Px4 Storm is in service with the South African police, the Canada border police and the Maryland police in the United States.

Px4 Storm

Currently, the rights to manufacture and sell 8000 Cougar pistols are transferred to the American company Stoeger, their assembly is carried out in Turkey.

The main type of personal weapon in the police and other structures of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation is the Makarov pistol. The PM is a very simple and reliable model, however, these weapons were still considered obsolete in the 80-s and require replacement in the army. In 90-s, they started talking about the need for new personal weapons for police officers. In the interests of the Armed Forces for the competition (the theme “Rook”), announced in 1990, three pistol-cartridge complexes were created: the Yarygin pistol — PYA, the Serdyukov pistol — ATP, and the Gryazev and Shipunov pistols — GSH-18. The last sample, however, did not have time to compete, but in 2003, it was nevertheless adopted for service along with the TL announced as the winner on the topic “Rook”.

Serdyukov pistol - ATP

For all three samples, cartridges with armor-piercing bullets were developed: for PJ and GSH-18 - in the size of 9 x19 mm, and for SPS - in the size of 9 x21 mm. The main purpose of these munitions, designated respectively 7Н21 and 7Н31 in the 9х19 mm, SP-9 and SP-10 in the 9X21 mm variant, is to hit the enemy in a bulletproof vest or with some kind of metal barrier in the body armor or with some kind of metal barrier in the body armor or with some kind of metal barrier in the body armor or with some kind of metal barrier in the body armor or with some kind of metal barrier in the body armor or with some kind of metal barrier in the body armor or with some kind of metal barrier in the body armor or with some kind of metal barrier in the body armor or with some kind of metal barrier in the body armor or with some kind of metal barrier in the body armor or with some kind of metal barrier in the body armor, you will have to put an adversary in the body armor or with some kind of metal barrier in the body armor. Indeed, light bullets with steel thermo strengthened cores of these cartridges confidently pierce body armor and steel sheets up to 8 mm in thickness, however, according to some experts, the prohibitive effect of 5-7 mm cores is relatively small. For a police officer, the very important, if not the main, properties are the high stopping power of the bullet, as well as the absence of a tendency to ricochet, in order to avoid accidental casualties when firing in the city. PU and GSH-18 shops can be equipped with conventional 9x19 mm cartridges, but the presence of armor-piercing ammunition makes Russian complexes more versatile. However, 7H21 and 7H31, due to the powerful powder charge creating high pressure in the barrel when fired, can not be used in all foreign pistols.

The gun must be beautiful

Despite the fact that PJ and GSH-18 were adopted by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation in 2003, and in 2008, the Ministry of Internal Affairs announced its intention to make the PYP a regular weapon for all its employees, the volume of orders for these samples is still small. The choice of the PJ for arming the police looks somewhat strange. It seems that for them the GSH-18 would be more suitable, having less weight due to the polymer frame (580 g against 950 g of PJ).

PYa, gun Yarygin

Reviews of new Russian pistols are very diverse. Especially stands out is GSH-18, to whom people who have dealt with it, give diametrically opposite assessments: from completely unprinted to enthusiastic. This indicates that the designers of the air cannons — Academicians Gryazev and Shipunov — managed to create a truly interesting sample of handguns. From the point of view of passport characteristics, the gun looks better than its foreign counterparts, while having less weight (580 g) and a more capacious (18 ammunition) magazine. An interesting technological feature of the GSH-18 is the orientation of the structure on gross production, which, however, has not yet been deployed. Total produced about one and a half thousand GSH-18. In such conditions, it is difficult to debug manufacturing technology, to get rid of the need for manual fitting of parts, and therefore to achieve their full interchangeability. With small-scale manufacturing, the price of the product also remains high, at a level much better than the finished and "promoted" Western designs.

Should Russian police be armed with one of the Beretta pistols instead of domestic PO or GSH-18? To get a really weighted answer to this question can only be based on the results of thorough joint tests of Western and domestic samples. Only practical experience can show which of them is more convenient for wearing and using in the realities of the Russian system of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, more durable, more reliable and easier to maintain. However, nothing has been heard about such testing, and the talk about the supply of products of the Italian company is already underway. It means that the question of such re-equipment is likely to be decided in the plane of attracting administrative resources.

By the way, there is a simpler way out: to allow the officers of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and officers of the RF Armed Forces to independently choose and acquire personal weapons from among the samples included in the officially agreed list. This option is practiced in many foreign countries. But with us, it seems, is not considered.

However, this does not mean that Russia should resolutely abandon any licensed production of foreign weapons. Practical acquaintance with foreign technology and design, quality standards, the attraction of modern foreign equipment to the country in any case will benefit the domestic branch of small arms. The concept of "design" here by the way plays a significant role. Ambiguous, to put it mildly, ergonomics, a very unaesthetic appearance and a rough finish are the hallmarks of most of the models of Russian small arms created in the past 20 years. When used exclusively for internal use, these factors may not play such a significant role, but for export they are very important.

The gun can and should be for the shooter not only comfortable, but also beautiful. After all, a beautiful thing is purely psychologically easier to sell. And when looking at the post-Soviet products of Russian gunsmiths, they don’t really want to spend their own money on them.
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  1. Canep
    Canep April 27 2013 07: 37
    Conduct an open tender subject to a production license. And at the request of the owner and with the preservation of the brand, it’s okay if Russian officers walk with Beretta or Glock. In Tsarist Russia, the Belgian Nagan was in service.
    1. Heccrbq
      Heccrbq April 27 2013 09: 32
      Cops are enough for PMa, beer bottles are opened, as a familiar face said, and this is true.
    2. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg April 27 2013 11: 31
      Quote: Canep
      Conduct an open tender subject to a production license.

      The one who rolls back will win. As a result, the cops will continue to walk with PMs.
      1. leonardo_1971
        leonardo_1971 April 27 2013 14: 39
        PM is a good pistol. Reliable. Small. Because of shortcomings a short barrel. Few rounds in the magazine. It is closer to civilian weapons. The police need a good powerful. Accurate multi-loading pistol. One ammunition is possible for the police. For example, without a steel core. and military another.
        1. iliq
          iliq April 27 2013 16: 10
          Quote: leonardo_1971
          and the police need a good. powerful. accurate. multi-loading gun.

          what for? PMa is enough for the eyes for the police. special forces have other weapons.
        2. Sirocco
          Sirocco April 27 2013 16: 17
          Quote: leonardo_1971
          PM a good gun. Reliable. Small

          You forgot to add that this gun has been honed for over 50 years. We brought to the ideal in its class weapons. Like AK.
          1. ed1968
            ed1968 April 29 2013 22: 48
            but at the same time he remained unimportant accuracy and lethal force
            1. ed1968
              ed1968 April 29 2013 23: 09
              ak is also good and reliable but not perfect
            2. Uruska
              Uruska 3 May 2013 15: 36
              Lethal force is not so important for a police pistol as a stopping effect. But the military does not need a gun at all. Need a submachine gun!
  2. Shuriken
    Shuriken April 27 2013 07: 56
    In the second photo, for some reason, it is not at all Beretta's "High Power" with a strange signature 9-mm Luger / Parabellum. But in general, it's a shame: our pistols are really ugly. -something averaged from a bunch of foreign models .... For some reason, more than a century ago, gunsmiths did better, take at least such charismatic R-08, K-96 and M1911! And they shot, be healthy!
    1. luiswoo
      luiswoo April 27 2013 14: 18
      So the frame no longer seems too thick? :)
      The taste and color ... - he is the only one who looks decent here: "licked", nothing more.
      1. Shuriken
        Shuriken April 27 2013 14: 22
        That's good already.
    2. leonardo_1971
      leonardo_1971 April 27 2013 14: 42
      and Margolin, a small-caliber pistol, created a blind man in general! and it turned out to be very convenient and beautiful!
    3. StolzSS
      StolzSS April 27 2013 17: 35
      You held this ATP in your hands ??? And in the course that there are several different modifications ??? And gsh-18 kept ??? The question is who is reasoning and what for me the PCA is so completely brought up. The guys in the FSB dash perfectly with its modification called the vector lay the bullets in the target only if such a gun is needed for operas ??? I don’t know, many operas honestly admit that they don’t always need a gun for life and work, and so the opera doesn’t know how to shoot a pistol like the guys in the FSB’s shooting range. So my opinion is going broke for the beret for the cops will be very fat if it would be better if they brought them to condition and set up its mass production, and letting Italians clean wrecking into this segment of the domestic market ...
      1. carbofo
        carbofo 2 May 2013 00: 45
        I think that it’s complete nonsense to buy weapons of the base classes, in the presence of excellent samples of our own design.
        Many never (except shooting at the shooting range) during the service did not use weapons.
        I think that the operatives or some services that, due to their duties, have an increased likelihood of fire contact, for example, to give out the GSh-18, ПЯ seems to me the same army model, for permanent use with difficult conditions it is better suited.
        I strongly doubt that the police need a pistol on a 9x21 cartridge, more advantageous for 9x19par, if only the OMON is armed with a 9x21 caliber.
  3. Shuriken
    Shuriken April 27 2013 08: 00
    And I looked closely at Browning, in general, "Chinese"!
  4. na76
    na76 April 27 2013 08: 00
    It is not necessary to recall tsarist Russia; there we did not have such an arms design school as we did. If we start buying licenses for foreign samples Degtyarev, Tokarev, Simonov, Makarov, Gryazev, Shipunov and our other great ones in the coffins, roll over, do not disgrace.
    In addition, all the comments on Rook (ПЯ) about which I heard about the quality of production, and not the design features of the weapon, and by the way the problem is not new, my fellow officers complained about the poor quality of the late Soviet-made Makarov, although Makar is simple, like .. Well, like Makar, it is structurally easier to invent a self-loading pistol.
    And if the problem is in the technical equipment and production culture, then how will the purchase of a Beretta license help if they are made from the same materials on the same equipment and the same people ... I don’t understand
    And you can buy ready-made import barrels only for milk samples of special weapons, and not mass pistols
    1. Kir
      Kir April 27 2013 18: 13
      It’s not that for 100 to 1000 with a huge tail that I agree with you, the problem is not primarily in the designers but in the production workers, only with the raising of the production culture and responsibility for the products you can solve the problem! And if we follow the logic, let's not take a stranger yet. forgive us that the civilian squad where everyone is equipped and armed as he pleases?
    2. Pimply
      Pimply April 28 2013 16: 52
      And they don’t need to spin in the coffins from the quality of the products currently manufactured. Or do you have to live with old glory?
      1. Kir
        Kir April 29 2013 23: 16
        Everything needs to be done so that it - Glory shines again, but by what methods this is achieved.
  5. aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 27 2013 08: 14
    Indeed, the early samples of K96, M1911, R-08, R-38, "revolver" had a beautiful, refined appearance. The designers were still the same. And it is a pleasure to shoot from such barrels.
  6. the47th
    the47th April 27 2013 09: 16
    In my opinion, the GSH-18 looks great. It is a pity that he was not chosen for arming the armed forces. But the police, I think it would be better if the MP-448 would do. He has the advantages of PM and no shortcomings.
  7. leonardo_1971
    leonardo_1971 April 27 2013 09: 45
    I liked the APS. A large, beautiful pistol. Very accurate. 25 meters fell into the coffin from under the 50,50 mm cartridges. 20 cartridges in the store were enough. A line of 10 rounds from 10 meters laid all the bullets in target No. 4 with two hands in a practical firing range. a very interesting drawback when quickly pulling a holster out of its holster can scroll to another distance. I jammed it with a piece of leather.
    1. Bongo
      Bongo April 27 2013 09: 52
      APS as a weapon to the police?
      1. leonardo_1971
        leonardo_1971 April 27 2013 14: 18
        at us in SOBR was at all.
    2. Shuriken
      Shuriken April 27 2013 10: 27
      APS-force! Of the Russian pistols, the most beautiful!
      1. Bongo
        Bongo April 27 2013 11: 32
        Certainly it is good, but unfortunately it is unfit for mass use and everyday wear.
  8. avt
    avt April 27 2013 10: 13
    Serdyukov’s case did not die, stability is a sign of mastery. Well, the guns got to the guns. In principle, yes, it’s troublesome to build our own production, to monitor the quality. Again cartridges, like small ones, but hassle with them .... It’s better to bring parts from a friend to Silvio, and here to assemble, proudly calling it licensed production.
  9. Larus
    Larus April 27 2013 10: 46
    Yes, we will close everything we own under the dubious pretext of poor quality and restructuring, and over the hill, for a lot of money, we will buy "good". Yes, give the same funds to companies to develop the same pistols that foreign firms have, and you will get your own excellent weapon !!!
    During the Second World War, it took us two years to start mass production of weapons, and how much we need now, when everything is closed and one shop per product is left, because the technology is no longer as simple as it used to be. guests "and this one is no exception, and no one knows how long it will take us to set up production with such taxiing, I hope that will be enough.
  10. takes
    takes April 27 2013 12: 12
    ia dumaiu giurze net ravnix v nastoiashii moment, a gsh-18 prekrasnii pistolet dlia policii.
  11. volkodav12
    volkodav12 April 27 2013 12: 26
    absoliutno soglasen ATP n-1 pistolet na sevodniashii den, a GS-18 xorosh dlia policii.
  12. valken
    valken April 27 2013 12: 40
    let the cops pm remain. the most humane weapon. Nehru people kill. give them good body armor and let them wear without taking off.
    1. the47th
      the47th April 27 2013 13: 27
      Better yet, take away weapons, let the head-kicks give out to criminals - this is humane! And then you can kill from PM.
  13. krokodil25
    krokodil25 April 27 2013 12: 53
    Well, if you wanted to cooperate with foreigners in this area of ​​small arms, then why is it better with the Italian Beretta then with the Austrian Glock !!!
  14. vkusniikorj
    vkusniikorj April 27 2013 13: 21
    I have a chz82 9mm excellent machine. handsome !!!
  15. the47th
    the47th April 27 2013 13: 35
    Here are my thoughts on the beauty of imported pistols. In many countries, weapons are sold in stores. A man, when he comes to a gun store, absolutely does not care about his characteristics - he shoots, and okay. Therefore, he examines the window and says: "Give me this one, pinky one." And what is written there is written in the table under the gun - this is for fucking gun fans. In Russia, pistols are not sold on the open market, and the developers do not give a damn about the appearance and they focus on the characteristics, etc.
  16. Pimply
    Pimply April 27 2013 13: 41
    I used to have Beretta. Fine, accurate, very comfortable gun
  17. Nicotine 7
    Nicotine 7 April 27 2013 14: 02
    And I’m for my compatriots to receive the LAW from our state for the purchase and carrying of short-barreled firearms. Not all, but very many would use this RIGHT. Yes, and the situation would change for our gunsmiths.
    1. Canep
      Canep April 27 2013 14: 09
      In hospitals, the situation would also change.
      1. Nicotine 7
        Nicotine 7 April 27 2013 14: 20
        Do not exaggerate. In many countries of the world weapons are sold and nothing bad happens in hospitals. But why are Russians worse than others?
        1. deman73
          deman73 April 27 2013 20: 08
          so that we are different, we have a different logic thinking well and all other parameters laughing
  18. leonardo_1971
    leonardo_1971 April 27 2013 14: 28
    Yarygin’s constantly missed the fired cartridge case. hey! and from firing with two hands the cartridge cases almost fly into the forehead. The pistol is still slightly crude, and it’s so convenient and powerful.
  19. leonardo_1971
    leonardo_1971 April 27 2013 14: 32
    Gyurza has plastic at the level of VAZ automobiles. the second fuse on the handle during long firing stuffs corn.
  20. Bad_gr
    Bad_gr April 27 2013 15: 38
    Pistols In my opinion, each is interesting in its own way.

    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr April 27 2013 15: 56
      Quote: Bad_gr
      Pistols In my opinion, each is interesting in its own way.

      This is a little off topic, but by the way about beautiful weapons.
    2. smershspy
      smershspy April 29 2013 17: 32
      For me "STRIZH" resembles "GLOCK-17"! Again they make a parody of what has already been created!
    3. Aleks21
      Aleks21 1 May 2013 22: 07
      What a beauty! Where can I get Full HD pictures on the computer screensaver?
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 3 May 2013 19: 48
        Quote: Alex21
        What a beauty! Where can I get Full HD pictures on the computer screensaver?
        I tried to insert in a large size (with zoom) it does not work (the problem appeared after updating the site engine)
  21. Strashila
    Strashila April 27 2013 16: 08
    But they forgot the simple modest hard worker PMM, the only open winner of the competition, unlike his colleagues in closed bidding ... of course, he is not a fashionable 9 x 21.
  22. Argon
    Argon April 27 2013 16: 15
    As a matter of fact, it can be stated that "effective managers" got to the arms industry, the same way they got to the car industry. For example, some parallels can be drawn. First, the plant's energy capacities are selected for the quarters of the bourgeois new building, the quality of heat treatment decreases, then the media company for the description of domestic products (remember how we liked to compare the OKU with the MERCEDES). The same thing is observed now with pistols, instead of raising the aesthetics of commercial samples. Some kind of muddle begins with the assembly of imported weapons.
  23. bazilio
    bazilio April 27 2013 17: 01
    On the one hand, of course, it is necessary to support the domestic defense industry, on the other hand, the presence of foreign models on the market should create a competitive environment for Russian gunsmiths, which will be an incentive to improve the quality and performance characteristics of the manufactured models. The localization (and not the purchase over the hill) of the production of foreign samples will provide a guarantee against the suspension of production in the light of the changed foreign policy developments.
    And about the choice of a pistol, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Ministry of Internal Affairs should get the best barrel (preferably domestic). To determine which barrel is the best, it is necessary to conduct competitive tests with the direct involvement of persons who will subsequently use the gun.
    1. Argon
      Argon April 27 2013 21: 35
      Dear bazilio, what kind of competition are you talking about, in the political and economic situation of today's Russia, performance characteristics do not play any role whatsoever. In the current levels of corruption, the competition will not be won by the gun but by the power of the lobby. Remember the situation with the talk.
      1. bazilio
        bazilio April 28 2013 18: 54
        Quote: Argon
        what kind of competition are you talking about

        I understand this, I painted it in the idial.
        Nobody canceled kickbacks and cuts, these schemes for the "development" of budget funds will be in use for a long time
  24. avt
    avt April 27 2013 17: 46
    Quote: bazilio
    on the other hand, the presence on the market of foreign samples should create a competitive environment for Russian gunsmiths, which will be an incentive to improve the quality and performance characteristics of the produced samples. The localization (and not the purchase over the hill) of the production of foreign samples will provide a guarantee against the suspension of production in the light of the changed foreign policy developments.

    Well, yes, it will create an environment, then Thursday, then Friday for Robinson Crusoe. Well, this Gaidar spell about regulation by the market itself is not tired?
  25. Argon
    Argon April 27 2013 21: 45
    Guys, if someone used the GSH-18, tell us about the shortcomings in more detail, in each publication they write "with existing shortcomings" and there is nothing specific. I will be very contentious.
  26. tracer
    tracer April 28 2013 03: 11
    For two years I’ve been using Beretta M92FS for training. We are very pleased with the weapon, accurate reliable convenient. He was unpleasantly surprised by Tokarev's pistol. With accuracy, everything is in order narrow and comfortable to wear. But .. wedges periodically. You can’t do anything. There are very few good Russian pistols. Probably only GS 18 though .... Also in doubt. Italians have tremendous experience in the manufacture of weapons. And what’s good, but to the benefit of the homeland, is not ashamed, and the foreigners will learn and adopt the technology.
  27. tracer
    tracer April 28 2013 04: 01
    I personally did not like the Yarygin pistol. I don't want to pick it up. It looks very sloppy. I turned it around (compared it with the reviews). No, this is bullshit and not a pistol. Forgive me if I offended anyone. But if you had held it in your hands ... you would have understood everything. By the way, the Beretta Px4 Storm is in service with the Canadian Border Service. And this is probably not casual. "Glock" is comfortable to carry; it is lightweight and reliable and does not really need to be cleaned. But I would prefer to shoot for real from the Beretta.
  28. MRomanovich
    MRomanovich April 28 2013 11: 08
    Something is wrong here, definitely. Looks like another "Serdyukov" idea. I would not be surprised if in the near future, according to the same scheme, they take up foreign submachine guns and machine guns, and you look at missiles.
  29. Nicotine 7
    Nicotine 7 April 28 2013 14: 12
    I already wrote earlier that if a Russian person has the LAW for a short barrel, and the state at the same time tries to protect its manufacturer, our gunsmiths will have good prospects. There will be quality and design, and all that the client wants.
  30. avega
    avega April 28 2013 21: 03
    in my opinion a little (or a lot))) was laid on the face))) the dough and as a result, the Italian concern climbed into the market where it tries ... is not needed .... We live in Russia that they will be surprised))))
  31. Fox
    Fox April 29 2013 07: 50
    so many discussions about what kind of gun cops ... and you ask us what we need. I arranged for PM, PSM. You can quickly get it, do not cling, it is easy to attend, there are no delays ... yes, you need to get used to it, but to carry in a hidden cabaret that clings to everything a Beretta ... no, this is for cheap militants. a opera with a likeness of a dessert needle, you need a psychotherapist, for help from the complexes. SOBR has its own preferences, the PPS and the traffic police are its own. I like the new GSh 18 ... but I haven’t seen him alive.
  32. _KM_
    _KM_ April 29 2013 16: 28
    PY is a great gun, only very demanding on the level of the shooter. Therefore, it is good for training IPSC athletes, but not for the rank and file, shooting at modern growing up. regulations. It’s the same as to put a graduate of a driving school behind the wheel of a racing formula. It is better for them to leave the upgraded PM.

    Second moment. In fact, he is the first and most important. CALIBER. What is the point of switching to 9x19 ?!
  33. Smol79
    Smol79 April 29 2013 16: 42
    If a short-barrel law had been passed, then the army could be re-equipped with new weapons and other new ones, and the population would be allowed to buy PM. And the warehouses will be freed and the state will earn money.
  34. ed1968
    ed1968 April 29 2013 23: 21
    overall the news is not bad good a well-proven pistol, he probably should be given a chance all the more so he is perfect for the police
  35. sys-1985
    sys-1985 April 30 2013 21: 50
    GS 18 is the best)
  36. smershspy
    smershspy 2 May 2013 17: 16
    I love GLOCK 17! I hope that there are connoisseurs who not only read about it but also used it! Thank you!
  37. shitovmg
    shitovmg 3 May 2013 07: 40
    Regular leave PM. Allow, as in the tsarist army, to have their weapons on the list. PM quite a decent gun, operatives and specialists let them use their own. I had a small choice: Nagan, TT, PM, and then, depending on the situation, I wanted everything !!! Fortunately, I did not have to apply!
  38. buk-m1
    buk-m1 5 May 2013 12: 05
    For the police, it is better to have several samples on the list and give them the right to choose whom
  39. a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 5 May 2013 13: 30
    Only after 20 years I became sure that from one clip I’ll get into someone from this miracle at 25 meters.
  40. a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 6 May 2013 14: 11
    Well, it doesn’t happen to be prettier (to the title of the article). And if you don’t like it, you can add tiles and curly brickwork laughing
  41. alex-cn
    alex-cn 6 May 2013 15: 03
    the beauty of the weapon in its functionality. look - there was a mts-3 pistol record for us. it’s more like a hacksaw for metal, only ours will take off the Olympics, they won the world championship, and engraving on army weapons - he just didn’t have enough
    1. Witold
      Witold 29 June 2013 14: 16
      [quote = Shurik.en] In the second photo, for some reason, it is not at all Beretta's "High Power" with the strange signature of the 9-mm Luger / Parabellum.

      9mm 9mm Luger / Parabellum, this is the caliber used in weapons.